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View Full Version : Jonathan Dwyer - What do people see?


Clarkw267
03-11-2010, 12:26 AM
Every time I see Dwyer I come away thinking the same things.

Positives:
Powerful downhill runner
Solid game speed
Quick through the hole
Tough to bring down

Negatives:
Not very elusive/agile
COD skills are lacking
Hasn't been used as a receiver much
Offense makes him hard to break down
Weight issues

I really don't see him as a NFL 3 down back. I think he could be a nice complement to a fast/shifty back, but that's about it.

Some people are really high on this guy, and I just want to get a feel for why that is.

YAYareaRB
03-11-2010, 01:24 AM
I don't know what you've been watching but some of the positives in his game are sitting in your negative column.

Clarkw267
03-11-2010, 02:03 AM
Such as? He doesn't make sudden or sharp cuts.

DiG
03-11-2010, 08:01 AM
i agree with you for the most part. im not sure that dwyer will be a #1 rb in the nfl. but given the recent direction of most nfl teams utilizing two backs, i still think he can be successful in the right situation. he is one of the best redzone runners in the draft. he doesnt fumble and he knows how to get into the endzone. personally, i have him as a late 3rd-early 4th rounder right now.

look at where a guy like shonn greene was drafted last year. similar size and build to dwyer, untested hands in college, and also coming off very successful statistical seasons.

greene - 5'11 / 227 / 4.63 40yd (4.55 pro day) / 19 reps
dwyer - 5'11 / 229 / 4.68 40 yd / 15 reps

as we all know greene was selected at the top of the third round and was the 5th running back off the board. i would give greene the slight edge as a prospect over dwyer. i think he had slightly more shiftiness and better vision. when its all said and done though i think they grade out pretty close and i would put dwyers stock right near where greenes was. if dwyer can have a pro day as good as greene did then he could move back up boards but at this point i think hes at best a mid 3rd round selection.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-11-2010, 09:19 AM
Well as a FB in the option offense you don't really get to see him show patience and find a hole and cut into holes. As the FB he had to hit the first hole he saw and only had 2-3 yards to make that decision. I'm so impressed at how many 50+ yard runs he broke from that spot. We were unable to see how he looked in a traditional HB spot having to read his blockers, but what we do see on film is a big bruising back with pretty good break away speed. Much like his teammate Bebe, because of the system he ran in, you are drafting him on physical tools and pure talent, and have to make your own judgments through workouts and tape as to how he will transition into a pro style offense. I'd still take him starting at the top of the 2nd round. I do have Hardesty and Ryan Matthews ahead of him at this point and have him at 5 just in front of Toby and and Ben Tate, but IMO Dwyer has the tools to be a very good NFL back. This RB class is very deep with power backs as well as shifty receiving backs. I see up to 10 backs from this draft class who will be major NFL contributors.

RWills
03-11-2010, 09:25 AM
The option offense hurts him cause he was a hit the hole and go, what is that going to be like a couple yards back, those holes won't be open as long and he isn't strong. The difference between him and Greene is Dwyer is football fat, do you remember the size of Greene's legs? they where like 2 tree stumps attached to his hips, that explosion. Dwyer has no explosion. He is a late 3rd, 4th round

SeanTaylorRIP
03-11-2010, 09:32 AM
The option offense hurts him cause he was a hit the hole and go, what is that going to be like a couple yards back, those holes won't be open as long and he isn't strong. The difference between him and Greene is Dwyer is football fat, do you remember the size of Greene's legs? they where like 2 tree stumps attached to his hips, that explosion. Dwyer has no explosion. He is a late 3rd, 4th round

That's not really true. As a FB he just had to hit it right away with the goal getting a quick 4 yards each time. If you are deeper in the backfield like a traditional HB you have time to read your blocks and then find the hole. With his role he couldn't show if he had great vision or patience because his job was to pick up 4 or 5 yards to set up a pitch to the edge. I'm not going to compare him to Green but Dwyer does have some explosion in his own right. I've seen him beat corners to the edge plenty of times, and I've seen him run over guys plenty.

CLong4Heisman
03-11-2010, 11:24 AM
Every time I see Dwyer I come away thinking the same things.

Positives:
Powerful downhill runner
Solid game speed
Quick through the hole
Tough to bring down

Negatives:
Not very elusive/agile
COD skills are lacking
Hasn't been used as a receiver much
Offense makes him hard to break down
Weight issues


I really don't see him as a NFL 3 down back. I think he could be a nice complement to a fast/shifty back, but that's about it.

Some people are really high on this guy, and I just want to get a feel for why that is.

Huge turnoff for me. What's his kill to death ratio?

K Train
03-11-2010, 11:31 AM
choice played in that gimmicky ass offense and is doing well. dwyer could be like shonn green, michael turner and choice all rolled into a ball of runningback ecstasy

RedVision
03-11-2010, 11:35 AM
choice played in that gimmicky ass offense and is doing well. dwyer could be like shonn green, michael turner and choice all rolled into a ball of runningback ecstasy

He most certainly did not. He was there pre-Paul Johnson.

DiG
03-11-2010, 11:35 AM
choice played in that gimmicky ass offense and is doing well. dwyer could be like shonn green, michael turner and choice all rolled into a ball of runningback ecstasy

i dont think hes got turners speed. didnt turner run like a 4.49? turner can really move for a big guy. i think choice is a good bit faster too.

K Train
03-11-2010, 11:40 AM
dwyer=4.59
choice=4.51
turner=4.49-4.51

both played in the same offense but choice is a good 20 pounds lighter. turner has the sweet feet, his feet carry his big body incredibly fast but i think theres simliarities in body type and playing style

RedVision
03-11-2010, 11:44 AM
dwyer=4.59
choice=4.51
turner=4.49-4.51

both played in the same offense but choice is a good 20 pounds lighter. turner has the sweet feet, his feet carry his big body incredibly fast but i think theres simliarities in body type and playing style

Keep on ignoring the fact that choice and dwyer did not play in the same offense. It doing nothing to help your point. Choice played for Chan Gailey in his pro-style offense led by the great Reggie Ball

K Train
03-11-2010, 11:50 AM
Keep on ignoring the fact that choice and dwyer did not play in the same offense. It doing nothing to help your point. Choice played for Chan Gailey in his pro-style offense led by the great Reggie Ball

gt didnt run triple option bs back then? i might be mistaken....my bad, no need to get butt hurt and come swooping in to save the day.

either way, dwyer is a good player id like him to be a steeler in the second round if hes there

scpanther22
03-11-2010, 12:21 PM
One website I read said that he is like Jonathan stewart..lol

wordofi
03-11-2010, 12:32 PM
i agree with you for the most part. im not sure that dwyer will be a #1 rb in the nfl. but given the recent direction of most nfl teams utilizing two backs, i still think he can be successful in the right situation. he is one of the best redzone runners in the draft. he doesnt fumble and he knows how to get into the endzone. personally, i have him as a late 3rd-early 4th rounder right now.

look at where a guy like shonn greene was drafted last year. similar size and build to dwyer, untested hands in college, and also coming off very successful statistical seasons.

greene - 5'11 / 227 / 4.63 40yd (4.55 pro day) / 19 reps
dwyer - 5'11 / 229 / 4.68 40 yd / 15 reps

as we all know greene was selected at the top of the third round and was the 5th running back off the board. i would give greene the slight edge as a prospect over dwyer. i think he had slightly more shiftiness and better vision. when its all said and done though i think they grade out pretty close and i would put dwyers stock right near where greenes was. if dwyer can have a pro day as good as greene did then he could move back up boards but at this point i think hes at best a mid 3rd round selection.

Greene is proof that the 40 time doesn't matter. Just watch the Jets-Chargers playoff game from last season.

DiG
03-11-2010, 12:45 PM
Greene is proof that the 40 time doesn't matter. Just watch the Jets-Chargers playoff game from last season.

i didnt say 40 times matter and im not saying that dwyer isnt a good prospect in his own right based on what he brings to the table. all im saying is that nfl draft trends are fairly common. guys like dwyer and greene arent the complete package at rb and because of that they usually arent drafted in the top two rounds. with these types of running backs theres always the chance you end up with a tony hunt.

superfly69
03-11-2010, 01:18 PM
Needs to keep in shape, but he has the tools for sure. Late 2nd to early 3rd round. He reminds me of both Matt Forte who was a mid-2nd rounder of the Bears and Kevin Smith who was an early 3rd to Detroit both in the 2008 draft. Thats where I think he will go, somewhere in that range.

batsandgats
03-11-2010, 01:24 PM
"Positives:
Powerful downhill runner
Solid game speed
Quick through the hole
Tough to bring down

Negatives:
Not very elusive/agile
COD skills are lacking
Hasn't been used as a receiver much
Offense makes him hard to break down"

Sounds familiar, like another fullback in Paul Johnson's triple option attack that didn't have that great of a career in the NFL.

"could run fast for a big guy and could run over most defenders while carrying a football.

"As the underclassman who is gaining a grip on the competitive fullback position in the triple-option offense, he remains quick for his size and quick to lower one of his broad shoulders to punish a tackler."

"no longer looks to bulldoze people automatically. He is learning to use his blockers and rely on his cutting ability. He continues to improve as a receiver and a blocker"

""He was a big, physical kid with a lot of natural ability," said coach Paul Johnson, recalling his first impressions. "He's learning how to harness it and get a feel for becoming a real good football player.

"At times, he'd just put his head down, hit the pile and try to run over everybody. He's paying more attention to detail now. He's a good fit for what we're trying to do."

At 5 feet 11, 235 pounds, with the speed to cover the 40-yard dash in 4.55 seconds and the strength to bench-press 415 pounds and squat 450, looks
like the ideal fit as the featured back.

"By the end of the game, he had asserted himself to the tune of two touchdowns and ,129 yards rushing, including a late, 42-yard run that set up the final touchdown. Averaged 7.6 yards on 17 carries by hitting holes hard, drilling linebackers, slipping tackles, breaking to the outside. Finesse and power combined."

"collected 13-career 100-yard rushing games, the fourth most in school history, and became just the third player in school history to twice gain 1,000 yards rushing in a single season. He finished his career with 2,906 rushing yards, which ranks fourth all-time in school history"

"had his highest ypc against Rutgers , carrying the ball 15 times for 143 yards, 9.5 ypc with a long of 78 yards"

edit: I guess nobody knows who this is


Dwyer is a little more physically gifted and has slightly better top end speed, but it is just proof that its hard to judge being that he was a fullback in the triple option.

Addict
03-11-2010, 01:24 PM
Huge turnoff for me. What's his kill to death ratio?

I bet he's a camper.

K Train
03-11-2010, 01:32 PM
i didnt say 40 times matter and im not saying that dwyer isnt a good prospect in his own right based on what he brings to the table. all im saying is that nfl draft trends are fairly common. guys like dwyer and greene arent the complete package at rb and because of that they usually arent drafted in the top two rounds. with these types of running backs theres always the chance you end up with a tony hunt.
awesome example

CC.SD
03-11-2010, 01:36 PM
Dwyer is underrated right now, I like him a lot but I'm a little on his gait. He's a long strider and a bit of a lumberer, not ideal. But out of that system I'm sure he will be a solid RB in the NFL.

FUNBUNCHER
03-11-2010, 01:51 PM
Dwyer looks like he really needs to get into shape. I don't know if 'softee' is his natural bodytype, but I expected him to be leaner.
Dwyer's timed speed is troubling, but on his game film he looks two tenths faster than what he ran at the combine.
I think Dwyer finds a permanent role in the backfield for some team, but I see him falling more than others, like Javon Ringer did last year.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-11-2010, 01:58 PM
Dwyer looks like he really needs to get into shape. I don't know if 'softee' is his natural bodytype, but I expected him to be leaner.
Dwyer's timed speed is troubling, but on his game film he looks two tenths faster than what he ran at the combine.
I think Dwyer finds a permanent role in the backfield for some team, but I see him falling more than others, like Javon Ringer did last year.

Well Ringer's problem was that he was 5-9" and over 200 only after a Big Mac. Ringer also had 843 collegiate carries and an absurd 390 carries his senior season. Ringers problem was also that despite being a tiny compact guy he wasn't fast or quick and relied on power in college. Dwyer is 6-2" 240 and ran a faster 40 than Ringer and doesn't have too bad of a work load on his resume.

As far as getting in better shape he could definitely get tighter but he's always been chubby. During the season we all knew he had some excess in his gut but it didn't appear to slow him down. I'm still a big Dwyer fan and think he's 2nd-3rd value but people seem to want to knock him much lower than that.

FUNBUNCHER
03-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Check your #s, but I'm pretty certain Ringer was timed at some point last year running a sub 4.5, maybe at Michigan State.

Titan's HC Jeff Fisher is really high on Ringer, and commented that he was frequently the most impressive RB in Titans TC, (when Chris Johnson was on the sidelines taking a water break!lol)

Anyway, Ringer was a guy I really wanted to be Clinton Portis' understudy for a few years before taking over the starting job in DC. We never got him, but I still like his game.

Point being, guys you like at RB sometimes inexplicably fall, which has little to do with their ability to be 1st teamers in the NFL.

CLong4Heisman
03-11-2010, 02:43 PM
I bet he's a camper.

if so then i wouldn't draft him at all.

NDfootball
03-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Dwyer kind of reminds me of Thomas Jones. He's a little bit bigger than Jones but seems to run similarly.

I'm kind of high on Dwyer, and see him as a late 2nd-3rd round pick. I think he would be higher in the past, but there seems to be a de-emphasis on drafting workhorse backs in the early rounds. The lack of a good 40 hurts him a bit, but doesn't kill his draft stock IMO. Underrated receiver as well.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-12-2010, 01:05 PM
I don't know Thomas Jones even coming out of UVA was an extremely polished runner. Compact running style, great vision and cutting. We haven't see any of that from Dwyer yet.

rfc17
03-12-2010, 02:46 PM
As others have said its hard to judge him in that offense. usually he isnt asked to make many cuts(if any). when you see him in the open field though and he is trying to juke a player he looks really awkward. he takes these elongated steps as though he wants to make a move and then just ends up running into the defender. i question his ability to be a lead back and cut back against the grain and make people miss.

i think he can be effective but he'll have to be used in the right way. i dont think he'll be an elite back that can be effective anywhere.

bigfreak314
03-12-2010, 03:04 PM
Any Michael Bush comparison's? After the injury of course

HotRod35
03-13-2010, 03:14 PM
Well Ringer's problem was that he was 5-9" and over 200 only after a Big Mac. Ringer also had 843 collegiate carries and an absurd 390 carries his senior season. Ringers problem was also that despite being a tiny compact guy he wasn't fast or quick and relied on power in college. Dwyer is 6-2" 240 and ran a faster 40 than Ringer and doesn't have too bad of a work load on his resume.

As far as getting in better shape he could definitely get tighter but he's always been chubby. During the season we all knew he had some excess in his gut but it didn't appear to slow him down. I'm still a big Dwyer fan and think he's 2nd-3rd value but people seem to want to knock him much lower than that.

Did you mean to type the following: "Dwyer is 6-2" 240 and ran a faster 40 than Ringer and doesn't have too bad of a work load on his resume."

Dwyer isn't anywhere close to 6'2". I am not sure what Ringer ran at the combine, but as slow as Dwyer ran at the combine, it's hard for me to believe that, he wasn't faster.

I think a lot of people were high on Dwyer, because he was thought of as a power back, with outstanding speed, who put some pretty good, though not great numbers in 2009.

Pre-combine, the assumption was he was a sub-4.5 guy, in 40, with some having him as low as 4.4. The problem is he shows up at the combine, lighter than he played in 2009 and then posts a very very slow time relative to what was advertised.

Moreover, he has lost weight but still looked out of shape and pudgy. Though I don't have the numbers in front of me, I think he was slow in the other speed tests as well. He didn't post a good vertical or broad jump. So it wasn't like he just had a bad 40.

Other than being slow, the most remarkable result from a poor results standpoint, was his poor showing in the bench.

So, based on his combine, we have a fast power back who, apparently, is neither fast, nor powerful. At least not relative to his competition.

Regarding that good but not great production, all is not as advertised there as well. By that I mean he didn't produce in the big games. In fact, for the most part he had his worst games against the toughest competition. I am pretty sure he posted just one 100 yard game against defenses ranked in the top 1/2 of all teams against the run.

Based, his poor combine and his somewhat suspect production numbers, I don't see how he doesn't drop quite a bit from what had been pretty lofty rankings.

ThePudge
03-13-2010, 03:38 PM
Pre-combine, the assumption was he was a sub-4.5 guy, in 40, with some having him as low as 4.4. The problem is he shows up at the combine, lighter than he played in 2009 and then posts a very very slow time relative to what was advertised.

Typically (not always) if a player looks like a sub 4.5 guy on film then he likely is fast enough to play in the NFL. If Toby Gerhart ran a 4.7 at the Combine you would be here saying he plays much faster on film & I would agree. I am more impressed by his speed on film than most backs in this class & there is no way he looks like a 4.6 on tape. Film is BY FAR the most important indicator for Running Backs.

I was very disappointed in Dwyer's workout, the excess skin & lack of definition at 229, the lack of explosiveness/quickness. Overall, he just turned in a very poor workout when he was expected to be one of the more physically impressive backs. It's just obvious he wasn't in shape and hadn't taken the event as seriously as some others like Gerhart, Matthews, & Ben Tate. Still, if Dwyer can redeem himself a little (both in interviews & workouts) I think he's still got a shot at the Second Round & a shot at finding a good role in the NFL. I definitely have my doubts but some areas he didn't perform well in when in Indy happen to be things Dwyer does at a high level on the field. I know he's fast, I know he can make the big play, and I know the kind of power he has with a full head of steam. Where he has trouble is finding holes (due to his offensive scheme) & keeping his weight in order. He's probably better off up at 235 and will need to put a lot of effort in the weight-room at the next level as well as work staying shape.

HotRod35
03-13-2010, 03:59 PM
Typically (not always) if a player looks like a sub 4.5 guy on film then he likely is fast enough to play in the NFL. If Toby Gerhart ran a 4.7 at the Combine you would be here saying he plays much faster on film & I would agree. I am more impressed by his speed on film than most backs in this class & there is no way he looks like a 4.6 on tape. Film is BY FAR the most important indicator for Running Backs.

I was very disappointed in Dwyer's workout, the excess skin & lack of definition at 229, the lack of explosiveness/quickness. Overall, he just turned in a very poor workout when he was expected to be one of the more physically impressive backs. It's just obvious he wasn't in shape and hadn't taken the event as seriously as some others like Gerhart, Matthews, & Ben Tate. Still, if Dwyer can redeem himself a little (both in interviews & workouts) I think he's still got a shot at the Second Round & a shot at finding a good role in the NFL. I definitely have my doubts but some areas he didn't perform well in when in Indy happen to be things Dwyer does at a high level on the field. I know he's fast, I know he can make the big play, and I know the kind of power he has with a full head of steam. Where he has trouble is finding holes (due to his offensive scheme) & keeping his weight in order. He's probably better off up at 235 and will need to put a lot of effort in the weight-room at the next level as well as work staying shape.

Thanks Pudge for attributing things to me, when you really have no idea. I am charmed by the following: "If Toby Gerhart ran a 4.7 at the Combine you would be here saying he plays much faster on film & I would agree."

And to think I am the one who is often accused of always posting about Gerhart.

For the record, I didn't say that Dwyer looked liked like he ran 4.7 on film, and I would agree that he looks faster than that on film. However, my point was not that he slow, per se, but rather that he was very, very slow as compared to the assumption that he was a sub 4.5 guy. It is one thing to run 4.7 when everyone thinks you run 4.5 to 4.6, it is altogether a different matter, when your biggest claim to fame, is that you are super-fast (for a big power back).

Also, for the record, while I do think he looks faster than 4.7, I never bought into the sub-4.5. But unlike other guys here who want to bash other players, I was perfectly willing to wait and see his actual time before making a judgment.

Moreover, I thought I made it perfectly clear, it has to do with more negatives than just a slow 40. If that were all, you could easily over look that, or at least I would. Here are my combine issues in addition to a slow 40.

1. Slow in the other speed drills not just the 40
2. Week in the Bench, especially for a power back
3. poor vertical
4. poor standing broad jump
5. poor performance in RB drills for receiving (though I am looking for any clips of this if anyone has them, and I am open to changing my mind if I see it and he really did well)
6. did not look like a power back, with smallish legs and pudgy middle


Outside of his combine, I have strong reservations regarding his production, including the following:

1. Poor production in big games
2. poor production against better quality run defenses

ThePudge
03-13-2010, 05:17 PM
Thanks Pudge for attributing things to me, when you really have no idea. I am charmed by the following: "If Toby Gerhart ran a 4.7 at the Combine you would be here saying he plays much faster on film & I would agree."

And to think I am the one who is often accused of always posting about Gerhart.

For the record, I didn't say that Dwyer looked liked like he ran 4.7 on film, and I would agree that he looks faster than that on film. However, my point was not that he slow, per se, but rather that he was very, very slow as compared to the assumption that he was a sub 4.5 guy. It is one thing to run 4.7 when everyone thinks you run 4.5 to 4.6, it is altogether a different matter, when your biggest claim to fame, is that you are super-fast (for a big power back).

Also, for the record, while I do think he looks faster than 4.7, I never bought into the sub-4.5. But unlike other guys here who want to bash other players, I was perfectly willing to wait and see his actual time before making a judgment.

Moreover, I thought I made it perfectly clear, it has to do with more negatives than just a slow 40. If that were all, you could easily over look that, or at least I would. Here are my combine issues in addition to a slow 40.

1. Slow in the other speed drills not just the 40
2. Week in the Bench, especially for a power back
3. poor vertical
4. poor standing broad jump
5. poor performance in RB drills for receiving (though I am looking for any clips of this if anyone has them, and I am open to changing my mind if I see it and he really did well)
6. did not look like a power back, with smallish legs and pudgy middle


Outside of his combine, I have strong reservations regarding his production, including the following:

1. Poor production in big games
2. poor production against better quality run defenses

When you post almost exclusively about two prospects, and I can only use on in a relevant example, that's what's going to happen. All I said was I'd agree with you if you were to say Gerhart plays faster than 4.7, I'd say he's a mid-late 4.5 guy on film. I would think you'd agree if I said Dwyer plays faster than 4.59/4.68, in the high 4.4s-low 4.5s is what I'd guess based purely on tape. When a guy bombs that hard from what most people expect on film I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but I think the problems have to be shifted. Jonathan Dwyer doesn't have a problem with speed, but he obviously does have a problem staying in shape, he didn't take the process seriously enough, and he looks like he needs a lot of attention in the weight room.

I'm not concerned about his speed or power however, because that's what he does best on film. If he doesn't redeem himself to some extent at his Pro Day his stock will fall (from lets say the Early-Mid 3rd range now) to maybe the mid-rounds or late rounds if the concerns about his weight/work ethic are that serious. He had an awful Combine, he was expected to perform better in every single event (by me at least) but don't make your judgements of him as a football player based on Combine numbers.

Not sure what you're getting at in big games. In 2008 he was excellent and in 2009 he was ok, though he had some of his worst production of the year in two of those games (Miami/Iowa).

Against all Ranked Opponents in 2008....
(15) Florida State - 13 car 145 yds 2 Td
(19) North Carolina - 22 car 157 yds 1 Td
(23) Miami - 10 car 128 yds 2 Td
(11) Georgia - 20 car 144 yds 2 Td

And in 2009
(20) Miami - 5 car 7 yds
(22) North Carolina - 19 car 158 yds
(4) Virginia Tech - 20 car 82 yds
(10) Iowa - 14 car 49 yds

So, were you to break down his Sophomore year (down at 235) and his Junior year (at 245) you'd learn that he averaged 17.5 car for 90.8 yds against ranked opponents (dragged down by the 5 carries - 7 yds in the Miami game) and 5.9 yards a carry.

HotRod35
03-13-2010, 10:01 PM
When you post almost exclusively about two prospects, and I can only use on in a relevant example, that's what's going to happen. All I said was I'd agree with you if you were to say Gerhart plays faster than 4.7, I'd say he's a mid-late 4.5 guy on film. I would think you'd agree if I said Dwyer plays faster than 4.59/4.68, in the high 4.4s-low 4.5s is what I'd guess based purely on tape. When a guy bombs that hard from what most people expect on film I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but I think the problems have to be shifted. Jonathan Dwyer doesn't have a problem with speed, but he obviously does have a problem staying in shape, he didn't take the process seriously enough, and he looks like he needs a lot of attention in the weight room.

I'm not concerned about his speed or power however, because that's what he does best on film. If he doesn't redeem himself to some extent at his Pro Day his stock will fall (from lets say the Early-Mid 3rd range now) to maybe the mid-rounds or late rounds if the concerns about his weight/work ethic are that serious. He had an awful Combine, he was expected to perform better in every single event (by me at least) but don't make your judgements of him as a football player based on Combine numbers.

Not sure what you're getting at in big games. In 2008 he was excellent and in 2009 he was ok, though he had some of his worst production of the year in two of those games (Miami/Iowa).

Against all Ranked Opponents in 2008....
(15) Florida State - 13 car 145 yds 2 Td
(19) North Carolina - 22 car 157 yds 1 Td
(23) Miami - 10 car 128 yds 2 Td
(11) Georgia - 20 car 144 yds 2 Td

And in 2009
(20) Miami - 5 car 7 yds
(22) North Carolina - 19 car 158 yds
(4) Virginia Tech - 20 car 82 yds
(10) Iowa - 14 car 49 yds

So, were you to break down his Sophomore year (down at 235) and his Junior year (at 245) you'd learn that he averaged 17.5 car for 90.8 yds against ranked opponents (dragged down by the 5 carries - 7 yds in the Miami game) and 5.9 yards a carry.

Pudge: I really am not sure why you have such an ax to grind against me and why you feel the need to attack me on a constant basis.

That wouldn't be so bad though, if you would actually stay focused on the comments I have made and the things I actually address in my posts.

Let me be clear, I am not saying I think Dwyer is a bum, or that he shouldn't be drafted, I thought I was perfectly clear such as when I actually wrote: " Pre-combine, the assumption was he was a sub-4.5 guy, in 40, with some having him as low as 4.4. The problem is he shows up at the combine, lighter than he played in 2009 and then posts a very very slow time relative to what was advertised."

And when I wrote: "So, based on his combine, we have a fast power back who, apparently, is neither fast, nor powerful. At least not relative to his competition."

And when I wrote: "Based, his poor combine and his somewhat suspect production numbers, I don't see how he doesn't drop quite a bit from what had been pretty lofty rankings."

I thought I made it clear that my issues with Dwyer were relative to where people had him ranked before the combine, not that he doesn't have potential. For example I wrote: "I don't see how he doesn't drop quite a bit from what had been pretty lofty rankings."


Moreover, I can't find the quote right now, but I know I posted somewhere, and I think I am correct about this, that Dwyer was in everyone's top 5, almost all top 3s and in a few top 2s before the combine.

I am saying based on his dismal combine numbers, and again it was across the board, not just speed in the 40, how can he not fall out of the top 3 RBs if not out of the top 5? He is not in my top 5 now, and he would have been prior to the combine. For the record I did not have him in my top 3.

To a certain extent I think you agree with me, but you are too worried about haranguing me to notice. For example you wrote something to effect that you were very disappointed in his combine numbers. Well, if a guy is generally rated 2 or 3 over all for the draft, and he bombs at the combine, should he drop? Dare I say from what had been pretty lofty rankings?

Regarding his production, and your quote: "Not sure what you're getting at in big games. In 2008 he was excellent and in 2009 he was ok, though he had some of his worst production of the year in two of those games (Miami/Iowa)."


I thought I was clear that I was referring to last season. For example I wrote:

"I think a lot of people were high on Dwyer, because he was thought of as a power back, with outstanding speed, who put some pretty good, though not great numbers in 2009."

If that was not clear, I should have wrote 2009 more times, because that is what I was referring to.

I will admit, I have not looked at his 2008 numbers that closely, but I have looked very closely at his 2009 numbers and I stand by my statement that he did tended to produce poorly in big games.

I also made it clear that I was concerned about his poor production against teams that were highly ranked in terms of defense against the run. I was not referring to AP ranked teams.

For example I wrote: "poor production against better quality run defenses"

Yes, he had two very outstanding games against FSU. The problem with that is that for the last two years FSU had maybe the worst defenses they have ever had, and especially so against the run. I know they ranked over 100 against the run in 2009.

I am a Seminole, and to be honest with you, this year's defense was perhaps the worst I have ever seen, from a fundamental stand point, for a team with a winning record. I am not proud to admit that but it is the truth.

Accordingly, running wild against FSU was no outstanding display of running prowess.

ThePudge
03-13-2010, 10:21 PM
I'm struggling to see in two consecutive posts how I've "attacked" you. I merely addressed you and tried to make a very simple point that those awful Combine numbers are not at all indicative of what Jonathan Dwyer is on the field. Obviously now there's going to be a slew of other concerns and he hurt his stock significantly, and I've noted that several times (you've failed to notice.)

I was, for the most part, agreeing with you that Dwyer really hurt his stock at the Combine. Now I don't think teams are going to think he's slow, not explosive, or weak; however, you have to have serious questions about his work-ethic, ability to stay in shape, and weight training in the future. He's not all the sudden slow and NFL teams aren't going to be led on by a poor 40, but you better believe he just raised major red flags in the work ethic department. You're just going off on random tangents here, playing the victim of a personal attack, while the message of what you're saying (Dwyer not a Top 5 Running Back) I'm ultimately agreeing with you....

Clarkw267
03-15-2010, 01:17 AM
I don't see Michael Turner at all with Dwyer like I did with Shonn Greene last year.

The biggest difference is that both Turner and Greene have great feet and balance. Dwyer seems to plod at times. And while he does have solid game speed once he gets going, his acceleration is lacking.

I don't know.. I just wouldn't take him before the late 3rd.

RWills
03-15-2010, 05:54 PM
Updating his situation

NFL Network's Mike Mayock reported on Monday's Path to the Draft program that he's "hearing nothing but third-round grades" on Georgia Tech RB Jonathan Dwyer from teams around the league.

Mayock notes concerns about Dwyer's speed (4.6), vision, and conversion coming out of Georgia Tech's triple-option offense, in which he essentially lined up at fullback three yards off the line of scrimmage. Dwyer was a tackle-breaking machine in college, but opinions on him seem to be decidedly mixed. He appears to have fallen completely off the first-round radar.

RedVision
03-15-2010, 07:02 PM
Being not prepared for the combine is like showing up drunk at your average job interview, it makes people not want to hire you. What Mayock said don't surprise me at all.

jdcdam1
03-15-2010, 07:04 PM
i dont see why everyone's ignoring the fact that he only played in the option 2 years...his freshman year he was choice's backup and averaged almost 6 ypc and scored 9tds...he was just fine...and he's very explosive...he doesnt have long speed, but he hits full speed pretty quick..plus his o-line was pretty small, which led to bigger d-lines slowing him down...but he's a good rb and will be a starter in the NFL