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Babylon
03-14-2010, 02:36 PM
March 17th. This is going to be quite a show/circus. We get to see the unveiling of the new throwing motion from Tim Tebow and the speed tests for guys like Spikes, Haden, Dunlap and Cooper to somewhat rehabilitate themselves.

nofalcons10
03-14-2010, 03:48 PM
im looking forward to seeing jermaine cunningham run.

if he clocks a 4.59-4.63 then i think that he could jump into the second round or 3rd round.

49erNation85
03-14-2010, 04:02 PM
Yes the time is just about here and I can't wait too see what Tebow has done and how he looks. I will be watching NFL network most of the day to get a looks and watch the rest of Florida players as well.

FUNBUNCHER
03-14-2010, 04:57 PM
How many players get drafted from the Gators this year???

ThePudge
03-14-2010, 05:33 PM
How many players get drafted from the Gators this year???

QB - Tim Tebow
RB/WR/RS - Brandon James*
WR - Riley Cooper
TE/H-B - Aaron Hernandez
C - Maurkice Pouncey
DE - Carlos Dunlap
DE/LB - Jermaine Cunningham
LB - Brandon Spikes
LB - Ryan Stamper*
CB - Joe Haden
S - Major Wright

A quick off the top of my head list. An impressive class indeed. Hernandez/Haden would be my best bets to have successful NFL careers.

BigRick352
03-14-2010, 06:49 PM
Will be there watching. If you guys are looking for anything in particular let me know and ill keep an eye out for ya

RealityCheck
03-14-2010, 06:52 PM
Not sure if Stamper gets drafted.

ThePudge
03-14-2010, 07:11 PM
Not sure if Stamper gets drafted.

I put a asterisk next to his name and Brandon James'. Players I don't necessarily expect to be drafted, but it wouldn't be crazy to think they could.

proshoota25
03-14-2010, 08:57 PM
i could see a lot of these gators being future new england patriots

the_dark_knight
03-14-2010, 10:42 PM
QB - Tim Tebow
RB/WR/RS - Brandon James*
WR - Riley Cooper
TE/H-B - Aaron Hernandez
C - Maurkice Pouncey
DE - Carlos Dunlap
DE/LB - Jermaine Cunningham
LB - Brandon Spikes
LB - Ryan Stamper*
CB - Joe Haden
S - Major Wright

A quick off the top of my head list. An impressive class indeed. Hernandez/Haden would be my best bets to have successful NFL careers.
I really think that of all those incredible college players, Pouncey and Brandon James will have the longest lasting careers. I really feel like all of the others on that list just leave too many question marks. Don't get me wrong, I think they all have something they're very good at, and in the right system with the right coach / situation, they could all be high quality starters in the NFL, which is impressive for any school, but it always seems to break the wrong way for most guys.

A guy like Dunlap will take a very special situation to get right. A guy like Dunlap needs a place like Green Bay, small town, trouble isn't going to seek him out there, good coaching staff there, and somewhere he can really get his head around life. But with his physical tools someone out there will be arrogant and think they're the right ones to fix him, and normally that ends up poorly, unfortunately for the kid, who squanders an amazing opportunity.

superman
03-14-2010, 10:55 PM
damn i was going to go to this

anyway i agree, james/hernandez...well and haden. even if it's not as a #1 shut down cb, the guy is a player and not a headcase. he'll stick around and have a good career.

and pouncey

RaiderNation
03-14-2010, 11:09 PM
Excited to see if Haden will improve his 40 enough to maybe get back into the top 10. Also happy that w/e Dunlap does, he probably wont be Oaklands 1st rounder :D

K Train
03-15-2010, 12:59 AM
pouncey is the best gator this year imo, he has elite center potential

SUP
03-15-2010, 03:11 PM
it should be fun.

sbh15
03-15-2010, 04:01 PM
Strictly based on success at a given position, Pouncey is probably your surest thing. He has the potential to be an elite one, and the floor of probably just a decent one. The most talented is hands down Carlos Dunlap, and it will be up to him to realize that.

wicket
03-15-2010, 05:35 PM
pouncey is the best gator this year imo, he has elite center potential

people keep saying that but apparently im missing something cuz I just dont see it

sbh15
03-15-2010, 06:54 PM
people keep saying that but apparently im missing something cuz I just dont see it

You could be watching the wrong Pouncey? :P

yourfavestoner
03-15-2010, 06:57 PM
You could be watching the wrong Pouncey? :P

Yeah, the only thing I can think of is he's watching Mike instead of Maurkice. Maurkice has been an absolute rock for the o-line since his freshman season.

bigbluedefense
03-15-2010, 07:13 PM
Very interested in seeing what Spikes runs.

If the Giants pass on McClain and don't take another LB in the 1st (ie Weatherspoon), I can see us going after Spikes in the 2nd.

I've been a big Spikes fan for quite some time now.

Let's see that 40 time, I've been waiting for this. If its a 4.9, then I might have to reconsider my stance on him, although I don't see anything slower than a 4.85 from him.

I'm guessing he runs a 4.73 on that quick florida track.

yourfavestoner
03-15-2010, 09:09 PM
Very interested in seeing what Spikes runs.

If the Giants pass on McClain and don't take another LB in the 1st (ie Weatherspoon), I can see us going after Spikes in the 2nd.

I've been a big Spikes fan for quite some time now.

Let's see that 40 time, I've been waiting for this. If its a 4.9, then I might have to reconsider my stance on him, although I don't see anything slower than a 4.85 from him.

I'm guessing he runs a 4.73 on that quick florida track.

I'm pretty sure the Florida Pro Day is run on grass, so the times usually come in on par or slower than at the combine - which is why I didn't understand why none of them ran at the combine.

Unless they're running it on a new surface now. Iono.

Mr.Regular
03-15-2010, 09:35 PM
Yeah, the only thing I can think of is he's watching Mike instead of Maurkice. Maurkice has been an absolute rock for the o-line since his freshman season.
I've recently been watching some Florida footage, and focusing on Pouncey, and wow he really is a stud. There aren't any holes in this guys game. Fantastic motor, great technical blocker. Very overpowering in the run game, quick feet, hes great at the second level.. I could go on and on. Hes as solid a center prospect as there can be. I wouldn't question a team taking him in round 1 at all.

bigbluedefense
03-16-2010, 08:45 AM
I'm pretty sure the Florida Pro Day is run on grass, so the times usually come in on par or slower than at the combine - which is why I didn't understand why none of them ran at the combine.

Unless they're running it on a new surface now. Iono.

from what i understand, its run on grass, but is considered a fast track bc of the heat and thinness of the grass?

i don't know, i heard Mayock or somebody on NFL network say that. they say their track is generally faster than the combine.

Hines
03-16-2010, 10:23 AM
I hope Haden runs slow again so he can fall to 18. Pouncey is another guy I would like at 18 as well.

Matthew Jones
03-16-2010, 10:57 AM
QB - Tim Tebow
RB/WR/RS - Brandon James*
WR - Riley Cooper
TE/H-B - Aaron Hernandez
C - Maurkice Pouncey
DE - Carlos Dunlap
DE/LB - Jermaine Cunningham
LB - Brandon Spikes
LB - Ryan Stamper*
CB - Joe Haden
S - Major Wright

A quick off the top of my head list. An impressive class indeed. Hernandez/Haden would be my best bets to have successful NFL careers.

Hernandez over Pouncey/Dunlap/Spikes? Interesting. Do you have him ranked above those guys on your big board?

Caddy
03-16-2010, 11:57 AM
I'm very interested. The Bucs are reportedly interested in Brandon Spikes so I want to know how he runs, particularly his 10 and 20 times.

AgentM
03-16-2010, 01:52 PM
I hope Haden runs slow again so he can fall to 18. Pouncey is another guy I would like at 18 as well.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I hadn't even thought about Haden being available for the Steelers until he ran a slow 40 at the combine. If he can run another crappy one I'll be on the edge of my seat during the first round hoping for him to fall to us (or for us to trade up a few picks to snag him).

Hines
03-16-2010, 01:54 PM
What scares me about Haden is his deep speed. He's very fast and explosive when the ball is thrown in front of him, but once teams see that his long speed is lacking, he will get attacked deep.

RealityCheck
03-16-2010, 02:01 PM
Both Pounceys are beasts. Mike could be a 2nd round pick at least next year.

AgentM
03-16-2010, 02:14 PM
What scares me about Haden is his deep speed. He's very fast and explosive when the ball is thrown in front of him, but once teams see that his long speed is lacking, he will get attacked deep.

Could it be any worse than what we currently have? hahaha

I understand what you mean though. But if he puts up a good 40 time there is no way he's around at 18, he needs one wart to get him to drop to that point.

rockio42
03-16-2010, 02:47 PM
Jermaine Cunningham will be more successful in the NFL than Carlos Dunlap...just saying

also...2,000th post for me, WHOOT!

Babylon
03-16-2010, 03:25 PM
I hope Haden runs slow again so he can fall to 18. Pouncey is another guy I would like at 18 as well.


I hear what you're saying but that logic i always find amusing.

ThePudge
03-16-2010, 07:34 PM
Hernandez over Pouncey/Dunlap/Spikes? Interesting. Do you have him ranked above those guys on your big board?

Hahaa, no way... That was a random order... no Brandon James > Joe Haden.

The Unseen
03-16-2010, 08:36 PM
Guys, I will be in attendance. Give me guidance.

ojjuiceman
03-16-2010, 09:45 PM
r da highlights on da tube

Cigaro
03-16-2010, 09:51 PM
r da highlights on da tube

English ************, do you speak it?

But no, YouTube can't time travel yet.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 10:08 AM
r da highlights on da tube

http://cdn.mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/o_rly.jpg

Addict
03-17-2010, 10:10 AM
r da highlights on da tube

http://guides.gamepressure.com/grandtheftautoiv/gfx/word/622756891.jpg

BigJohn98
03-17-2010, 10:17 AM
Brandon Spikes ran a 5.05 40. Ouchies

H.O.O.D
03-17-2010, 10:19 AM
Update from OnlyGators twitter

Former Florida #Gators CB Joe Haden turned in a 4.44 40-yard dash per Andrea Adelson of the Orlando Sentinel.

RWills
03-17-2010, 10:23 AM
I was expecting high 4.8's low 4.9's, he is a 3-4 2-down Ted. what do you say, round 3?

Matthew Jones
03-17-2010, 10:33 AM
Hahaa, no way... That was a random order... no Brandon James > Joe Haden.

I was talking about when you said you thought Hernandez was more likely to be a very good player than some of the bigger name guys on there.

Matthew Jones
03-17-2010, 10:35 AM
Brandon Spikes ran a 5.05 40. Ouchies

Ouchy-wahwah. Yeah that's not a good thing. Remember when Kai Parham ran that coming out of Virginia and went from 2nd-3rd to undrafted? Couple that with the fact that linebackers usually slip a little on draft day and questions regarding his character, as well as his decline last year...he's not looking good. I'm thinking he's probably hovering in the fifth round or so at this point. And if you don't believe me ask Brandon Siler.

Update from OnlyGators twitter

Wow, I'll take a 4.44 anyday from my cornerbacks. Adjusted for inflation, though, this might be a little lower, like a 4.5. Still should boost his stock up some though.

H.O.O.D
03-17-2010, 10:40 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/live-blog-tebow-pro-day-at-florida-031710


9:40 a.m. -- Unofficial 40 times for Joe Haden (4.42) and Hernandez (4.56).

9:54 a.m. -- Joe Haden runs a 4.43.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 10:46 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/live-blog-tebow-pro-day-at-florida-031710

Couple key notes, too:

9:28 a.m. -- It's drizzly and about 55 degrees. There's about 500 people in the stands ... mostly to see Tebow. There will be 17 other participants working out today as well including Gator great Eric Wilbur from a few years ago.

9:34 a.m. -- I see David Nelson and Markihe Anderson. Looks they are about to run the 40, and it certainly isn't the best of conditions. I have a feeling Tebow may not doing anything but throw today.

9:38 a.m. -- Just found out that TE Aaron Hernandez threw up 30 reps of 225 in the bench. Carlos Dunlap bested his combine rep number by one by getting to 22. Tim Tebow did not lift.

9:40 a.m. -- Unofficial 40 times for Joe Haden (4.42) and Hernandez (4.56).

Hernandez is a ******* beast.

And that sound you hear is of Brandon Spikes' stock plummeting.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 10:46 AM
I heard some scouts were taking off fractions of a second because it was a wet track. Some guys might adjust that to a sub 4.4 instead of the reverse.

Rosebud
03-17-2010, 10:47 AM
Spikes is going to be a mega-******* steal now.

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 10:54 AM
Brandon Spikes ran a 5.05 40. Ouchies

Yeaa, I was concerned he'd be in the 4.9-5.0 range. This isn't going to do him any favors. I've been waiting for it, Brandon Spikes = 3rd Round. Joe Haden/Hernandez making good cases for themselves here though.

TheSlinger
03-17-2010, 10:55 AM
So... I guess there go all the guys saying that Spikes and McClain are practically the same prospect.

Splat
03-17-2010, 10:56 AM
r da highlights on da tube

This is just awesome.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 10:57 AM
So... I guess there go all the guys saying that Spikes and McClain are practically the same prospect.

I was one of those guys, and I'll take it back now. I was expecting him to run in the 4.7-4.8 range but over 5 seconds is just painfully slow.

I still maintain, though, that McClain is overrated as a prospect. His stock is coming back down to earth now though. The top 10 talk for him was just stupid.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 10:58 AM
Hahahahahaha, funniest thing from that blog:

10:47 a.m. -- Still no Tebow, who is always first on the field and last off of it. I think these gloomy clouds will part if he would just come outside.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/live-blog-tebow-pro-day-at-florida-031710

Splat
03-17-2010, 10:59 AM
Chiefs first two picks.

1.Berry

2.Spikes

Splat screams like a little girl out of pure joy.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 10:59 AM
10:35 a.m. -- No one seems to have a great sense of exactly how fast Brandon Spikes ran today. I've heard anywhere from 4.85 to 5.01. With his playing ability, anywhere in the 4.9s should guarantee him a place in the first round.

10:33 a.m. -- David Nelson may have secured a draft spot today with his 4.4 40. Nelson was quiet most of his career because he wasn't thrown the ball. The former Army All-American stands 6-5 and is over 200 lbs, and will be a big target for QBs.

Addict
03-17-2010, 10:59 AM
so any word on how Tebow is looking?

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 11:01 AM
so any word on how Tebow is looking?

10:47 a.m. -- Still no Tebow, who is always first on the field and last off of it. I think these gloomy clouds will part if he would just come outside.

Matthew Jones
03-17-2010, 11:01 AM
Chiefs first two picks.

1.Berry

2.Spikes

Splat screams like a little girl out of pure joy.

I'd have thought Splat would have splattered.

jth1331
03-17-2010, 11:02 AM
Spikes is going to be a mega-******* steal now.

How? He was overrated obviously being on a great Gators team. That speed will hurt in the NFL, and that is one thing you can not teach a prospect. I just don't see him doing well in the NFL. With that speed, covering RB's/TE's/whatever will be a nightmare since he'll be playing catchup and I wonder if he has the speed in the running game. I don't think he'll be a huge steal at this point, but I could be wrong.

MizzouBig12
03-17-2010, 11:10 AM
How? He was overrated obviously being on a great Gators team. That speed will hurt in the NFL, and that is one thing you can not teach a prospect. I just don't see him doing well in the NFL. With that speed, covering RB's/TE's/whatever will be a nightmare since he'll be playing catchup and I wonder if he has the speed in the running game. I don't think he'll be a huge steal at this point, but I could be wrong. For his position, his 10 and 20 yard splits are far more important than his 40 speed. His short shuttle and 3 cone are also more indicative of area abilities. As for the "can't teach speed" myth, what do you think track coaches do? A couple of months of form and plyometrics can "teach" plenty of speed, I've had students drop 3-4 tenths off of their 40 times by "teaching" them.

Hines
03-17-2010, 11:12 AM
Ouch, that 5 flat kills Spikes IMO. God dammit Haden, why did you have to run fast!

Addict
03-17-2010, 11:12 AM
10:47 a.m. -- Still no Tebow, who is always first on the field and last off of it. I think these gloomy clouds will part if he would just come outside.

right, I was on the wrong post when I asked. Thanks.

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 11:13 AM
I was one of those guys, and I'll take it back now. I was expecting him to run in the 4.7-4.8 range but over 5 seconds is just painfully slow.

I still maintain, though, that McClain is overrated as a prospect. His stock is coming back down to earth now though. The top 10 talk for him was just stupid.

Agreed. I think we all got a little ahead of ourselves on McClain. He's currently sitting 19th on my board. Spikes will be a good pick for a team at the top of the third but he just hasn't looked to have that SEC speed since his Junior year. Going just off of last year's game tape (which he had a nagging injury during) he looked like a 4.9-5.0 guy. I think he needs some looks as a pass-rushing OLB in a 3-4 scheme, turn him loose...

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 11:16 AM
Agreed. I think we all got a little ahead of ourselves on McClain. He's currently sitting 19th on my board. Spikes will be a good pick for a team at the top of the third but he just hasn't looked to have that SEC speed since his Junior year. Going just off of last year's game tape (which he had a nagging injury during) he looked like a 4.9-5.0 guy. I think he needs some looks as a pass-rushing OLB in a 3-4 scheme, turn him loose...

I absolutely raped Andre Smith when UF lined him up at DE in passing situations against Bama last year.

Addict
03-17-2010, 11:16 AM
forgive the incomperably stupid question, but what exaclty is it that makes Tebow this adored? I don't really understand

RWills
03-17-2010, 11:17 AM
Agreed. I think we all got a little ahead of ourselves on McClain. He's currently sitting 19th on my board. Spikes will be a good pick for a team at the top of the third but he just hasn't looked to have that SEC speed since his Junior year. Going just off of last year's game tape (which he had a nagging injury during) he looked like a 4.9-5.0 guy. I think he needs some looks as a pass-rushing OLB in a 3-4 scheme, turn him loose...

He does have the size and he is a good pass rusher for a MLB, probably the only way to keep him on for third downs

Babylon
03-17-2010, 11:21 AM
Joe Haden will likely get back in the conversation as a high pick. He can point to a bad combine, not feeling 100% etc. The thing with these situtations is if you liked the guy to start with you can justify anything.

As for Spikes that time cant be good when other times seem low across the board. I dont subscribe to the theory that when someone does something not good he then becomes this great value, it should be just the opposite.

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 11:21 AM
forgive the incomperably stupid question, but what exaclty is it that makes Tebow this adored? I don't really understand

G-O-D Power!!!

But seriously, Tebow can't help the attention the media gives him.

I think it any of us met him, we'd say he was a good guy.

So... I guess there go all the guys saying that Spikes and McClain are practically the same prospect.

I still think they're similar, just that McClain is MUCH faster, relatively speaking.

Hines
03-17-2010, 11:23 AM
If Haden still falls passed the top 11-12 picks, I still want the Steelers to consider trading up.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 11:25 AM
G-O-D Power!!!

But seriously, Tebow can't help the attention the media gives him.

I think it any of us met him, we'd say he was a good guy.



Great point, my guess is Tebow isnt asking for any attention to be brought on himself. Thank the media for that circus.

Not happy with Riley Cooper not running today, on what seems a faster surface than the combine he could have easily got down to the low 4.4s and i think seen his stock get up to that late 2nd-3rd round range. Maybe he's too busy carrying Timmy's bags.

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 11:27 AM
I absolutely raped Andre Smith when UF lined him up at DE in passing situations against Bama last year.

Now now, Andre Smith is a Bengal so I have to stand up for the big guy. I know what you're talking about and there were a couple plays that Spikes really set the pace and Smith had to adjust with just average recovery foot quickness. I thought as a whole, Smith was just explosive/athletic enough to keep Spikes from having a huge day there. I watched that game live (like half the world) and didn't think their contests were all too unanimous, though it was clear that Brandon was being used by the Gators to take Andre out of his comfort zone (which worked).

Still, Spikes did look good when turned loose on the edge and he's shown terrific ability as a blitzer through the years. He's got the length, he's got the instincts, and I think he'd work better turned loose as a pass-rusher in a 3-4 scheme than he would sifting through traffic & playing sideline-to-sideline on the inside.

Addict
03-17-2010, 11:28 AM
G-O-D Power!!!

But seriously, Tebow can't help the attention the media gives him.

I think it any of us met him, we'd say he was a good guy.


no, see you misinterpreted my question. I'm not from the US, so I'm really just curious what makes all those people think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sure he's a good QB from a big college, but that's it?

And I don't think I'd hate him... he does seems too stereotypically nice for me. I like my friends to have a little grit. Also he's superreligious and... wel I'm a godless heretic.

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 11:31 AM
He does have the size and he is a good pass rusher for a MLB, probably the only way to keep him on for third downs

Yea I've been saying this for a little while though not many ears have been out there for this one.

At 6027 249 with 33 3/8" arms he's plenty long enough to play OLB in a 3-4 and he shows a good first step off the edge and decent closing speed moving downhill. I may be wrong, as the Bengals don't run 3-4, but playing in the role of a pass-rushing OLB would decrease the amount of man-to-man matchups with RBs/TEs. He's good/experienced dropping into zone coverage and is very good at reading the Quarterbacks eyes.

Anyone else onboard the Brandon Spikes 3-4 Outside Linebacker bandwagon?

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 11:32 AM
Great point, my guess is Tebow isnt asking for any attention to be brought on himself. Thank the media for that circus.

Not happy with Riley Cooper not running today, on what seems a faster surface than the combine he could have easily got down to the low 4.4s and i think seen his stock get up to that late 2nd-3rd round range. Maybe he's too busy carrying Timmy's bags.

If wet grass is a faster surface than what they've got in Indy now, then they really need to do something about the turf in Indy.

ElectricEye
03-17-2010, 11:35 AM
That's a real good time for Haden and Dunlap probably helped himself a bit with that time as well.

Addict
03-17-2010, 11:35 AM
Yea I've been saying this for a little while though not many ears have been out there for this one.

At 6027 249 with 33 3/8" arms he's plenty long enough to play OLB in a 3-4 and he shows a good first step off the edge and decent closing speed moving downhill. I may be wrong, as the Bengals don't run 3-4, but playing in the role of a pass-rushing OLB would decrease the amount of man-to-man matchups with RBs/TEs. He's good/experienced dropping into zone coverage and is very good at reading the Quarterbacks eyes.

Anyone else onboard the Brandon Spikes 3-4 Outside Linebacker bandwagon?

by those numbers he'd be a perfect ILB in a 3-4... I don't like the thought of him as a 3-4 OLB since he's slower than most 3-4 DE's.

GoRavens
03-17-2010, 11:36 AM
Damn Brandon Spikes...
You're slow as ****!
Late second-Early Third now.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 11:38 AM
If wet grass is a faster surface than what they've got in Indy now, then they really need to do something about the turf in Indy.

My only logic there is Haden runs 4.6 at Indy and 4.42 in Florida, cant believe he all of a sudden became that much faster.

MizzouBig12
03-17-2010, 11:41 AM
forgive the incomperably stupid question, but what exaclty is it that makes Tebow this adored? I don't really understand

Although a good deal of Tebow's appeal is his squeaky-clean image, he also did fairly well at Florida:

Passing Rushing
Season Team GP Rating Att Comp Pct Yds TD INT Sack Att Yds TD
2006 Florida Gators 14 201.7 33 22 66.7 358 5 1 0 89 469 8
2007 Florida Gators 13 172.5 350 234 66.9 3286 32 6 13 210 895 23
2008 Florida Gators 14 172.4 298 192 64.4 2747 30 4 15 176 673 12
2009 Florida Gators 14 155.6 304 213 70.1 2895 21 5 25 217 910 14
Totals 55 176.0 985 661 67.1 9286 88 15 53 692 2947 57

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Addict, I think the Tebow love is a direct consequence of his being the most dominant college offensive football player of a generation.

Star QB + SEC + Florida Gators + Heisman trophy + 2 nat'l championships + son of missionaries = massive slobbing from the sports media.

PhysicalwithanF
03-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Keeep falling Brandon SPikes..keep falling all the way to the Niners in the 3rd round

MizzouBig12
03-17-2010, 11:42 AM
forgive the incomperably stupid question, but what exaclty is it that makes Tebow this adored? I don't really understand

Although a good deal of Tebow's appeal is his squeaky-clean image, he also did fairly well at Florida:

Passing Rushing
Season Team GP Rating Att Comp Pct Yds TD INT Sack Att Yds TD
2006 Florida Gators 14 201.7 33 22 66.7 358 5 1 0 89 469 8
2007 Florida Gators 13 172.5 350 234 66.9 3286 32 6 13 210 895 23
2008 Florida Gators 14 172.4 298 192 64.4 2747 30 4 15 176 673 12
2009 Florida Gators 14 155.6 304 213 70.1 2895 21 5 25 217 910 14
Totals 55 176.0 985 661 67.1 9286 88 15 53 692 2947 57

Hines
03-17-2010, 11:42 AM
Off topic, but Sean Lee ran a mid 4.5 today at his Pro Day and Odrick ran a 4.93.

Addict
03-17-2010, 11:45 AM
Off topic, but Sean Lee ran a mid 4.5 today at his Pro Day and Odrick ran a 4.93.

that's not bad at all...

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 11:47 AM
Off topic, but Sean Lee ran a mid 4.5 today at his Pro Day and Odrick ran a 4.93.

Was it a fast track? What did Odrick weigh in at? He looked very maxed out between 304-308 so I'm just not sure what his weight goal is and what his most natural playing weight is.

Addict
03-17-2010, 11:47 AM
Addict, I think the Tebow love is a direct consequence of his being the most dominant college offensive football player of a generation.

Star QB + SEC + Florida Gators + Heisman trophy + 2 nat'l championships + son of missionaries = massive slobbing from the sports media.

yeah I guess it makes sense. Well except for the missionary part can't imagine that having much to do with it. Didn't help John Beck and he was a missionary wasn't he? But I suppose it's the equation you mention, yes.

Hines
03-17-2010, 11:48 AM
Was it a fast track? What did Odrick weigh in at? He looked very maxed out between 304-308 so I'm just not sure what his weight goal is and what his most natural playing weight is.

I heard that the track is fast, so I would put Lee around a 4.6, but it's still solid. I don't know the measurements. All Penn State's board mentioned were some of the times. Mickey Shuler pushed up 225 28 times.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 11:48 AM
My only logic there is Haden runs 4.6 at Indy and 4.42 in Florida, cant believe he all of a sudden became that much faster.


I said over and over again in the Combine thread and Haden thread...he got a horrible start and stood straight up out of the blocks. That will easily add .1 -.2 seconds of time to your 40.

Guys have consistently ran the same times or slower on the Florida Pro Day than their combine times because the UF Pro Day is always run on the football field on grass.

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 11:50 AM
We'll see how fast Haden is once he gets to the NFL. I think most teams will write off his slow time at the combine to a bad start off the line.

I was always told that Haden was a 4.48 guy with outstanding coverage technique. ALso he's supposed to be beastly strong for a cornerback.

Still I wouldn't be surprised if another corner leapfrogs him to be the #1 guy in the draft.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 11:50 AM
11:36 a.m. -- Tebow to Hernandez on deep seam route ... Great route by Aaron ... Mike Holmgren had a great seat for that throw.

11:35 a.m. -- Tebow hits Cooper on a 45 yard post ... Cooper never breaks stride. Then, right away, he hits Nelson on the same route but opposite side of the field ... in stride.

11:33 a.m. -- Crowd appears to be 3,000 now, and they are cheering every throw. Tebow is really hitting the long out routes. I have to think this is an impressive performance following up a great combine showing.

11:29 a.m. -- He has been on the money on every throw so far. He's hitting the receivers in stride. Tebow is clearly holding the ball higher. He hasn't changed his delivery so much but he's not looping down to his waist on his throws. Tom Coughlin is front and center to watch.

11:28 a.m. -- Tim has obviously done a lot of work on his backpedal, and he looks like a total different player dropping back. Very quick with his feet. Very impressive.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/live-blog-tebow-pro-day-at-florida-031710

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 11:52 AM
11:43 a.m. -- Looks like Tebow is done. Crowd is chanting "First Round Draft Pick!"

11:40 a.m. -- There hasn't been a misfire yet. Scouts ask for more work, and boom! Another perfect bomb to Hernandez.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/live-blog-tebow-pro-day-at-florida-031710

I think this might all but solidify either the Jags or Bills trading down in round one to take him.

Hines
03-17-2010, 11:56 AM
Jacksonville, trade us 10 for 18 so we can get Haden and you can get Tebow.

TheMorningZoo
03-17-2010, 11:57 AM
11:43 a.m. -- Looks like Tebow is done. Crowd is chanting "First Round Draft Pick!"

11:40 a.m. -- There hasn't been a misfire yet. Scouts ask for more work, and boom! Another perfect bomb to Hernandez.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/live-blog-tebow-pro-day-at-florida-031710

I think this might all but solidify either the Jags or Bills trading down in round one to take him.

Agreed, I can see that happening, especially since the Jags don't really need any position atm ( more of a BPA ). I really could see the Colts taking Tebow, but they have large needs at DT/OT, so if they address those both in Rounds 1 and 2, he will most likely be gone. Probably would be the best situation for him , or maybe the Pats or something

Addict
03-17-2010, 11:57 AM
it's still a pro day though, it's very very ochestrated. Then again, Tebow's work ethic is impressive. But I just have never heard of a QB actually reinventing himself in a couple of months. Is this on TV, is anyone watching this right now?

Job
03-17-2010, 11:57 AM
How reliable is msn foxsports?

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 11:59 AM
Expect to see some crazy trades in the first round come draft day.

And who knows, the Steelers MAY need a QB before the summer is over.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 11:59 AM
Agreed, I can see that happening, especially since the Jags don't really need any position atm ( more of a BPA ). I really could see the Colts taking Tebow, but they have large needs at DT/OT, so if they address those both in Rounds 1 and 2, he will most likely be gone. Probably would be the best situation for him , or maybe the Pats or something

Couple that with the fact that Jax has no second rounder this year, and I think it's almost a forgone conclusion that they'll trade down.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 12:02 PM
it's still a pro day though, it's very very ochestrated. Then again, Tebow's work ethic is impressive. But I just have never heard of a QB actually reinventing himself in a couple of months. Is this on TV, is anyone watching this right now?

According to the guy writing the blog, he didn't really reinvent his throwing motion. It's still a long delivery, but he has compacted it by holding the ball up higher and not looping it down around his waist.

The problem with his motion was related more to footwork and balance than what his arm is doing.

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 12:02 PM
Yea great news for Tebow. Moved him up to 3rd in my Quarterback rankings recently, and will definitely be keeping him there until April for me. Tebow has a legitimate 1st Round stock & I think I would grade him out in the early-mid 2nd Round. There's a lot to like about the job Tebow's done this offseason and he was well-prepared for both the Combine and this Pro Day. I was one that had him in the early 4th Round (value wise) before the NFL Combine, but Tebow has shown the ability to learn & improve quickly, the best deep ball in the class, and a good amount of athleticism/toughness/poise at the position. A team will likely see him as a Franchise passer and I would put Cleveland/Buffalo/Jacksonville at the top of the list. There will be teams out there that like him more than Jimmy Clausen.

Very happy for him though I was not one that liked him in college.

Hines
03-17-2010, 12:02 PM
Expect to see some crazy trades in the first round come draft day.

And who knows, the Steelers MAY need a QB before the summer is over.

If the Steelers need a QB, they'll play Dixon. We're going to sign Batch/Lefty to be the number 3.

vidae
03-17-2010, 12:02 PM
Chiefs first two picks.

1.Berry

2.Spikes

Splat screams like a little girl out of pure joy.

If we take Slowpoke Spikes in the second I'll be pissed. Third rounder at the earliest.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 12:04 PM
My only logic there is Haden runs 4.6 at Indy and 4.42 in Florida, cant believe he all of a sudden became that much faster.

pro days sure bring out the best in people.....though Haden's technique was obviously horrible in Indy and he apparently had a lower back strain and some stiffness due to it, so that could be the reason.

Hines
03-17-2010, 12:11 PM
Mike Tomlin likes Carlos Dunlap. If we drafted him in the first, I would be pretty upset.

He ran a 4.59 today.

BuddyCHRIST
03-17-2010, 12:12 PM
How reliable is msn foxsports?

They are big time gator lovers, this is the same website that put Chris Leak's NC game performance above Vince Young's. And if you read their weekly power rankings...its pretty obvious.

But every QB looks like a superstar at their workouts, thats what they are designed to do.

Complex
03-17-2010, 12:21 PM
pro days sure bring out the best in people.....though Haden's technique was obviously horrible in Indy and he apparently had a lower back strain and some stiffness due to it, so that could be the reason.

I doubt he was hurt if he was he wouldn't have run at the combine.

Yea I've been saying this for a little while though not many ears have been out there for this one.

At 6027 249 with 33 3/8" arms he's plenty long enough to play OLB in a 3-4 and he shows a good first step off the edge and decent closing speed moving downhill. I may be wrong, as the Bengals don't run 3-4, but playing in the role of a pass-rushing OLB would decrease the amount of man-to-man matchups with RBs/TEs. He's good/experienced dropping into zone coverage and is very good at reading the Quarterbacks eyes.

Anyone else onboard the Brandon Spikes 3-4 Outside Linebacker bandwagon?

Outside linebacker hahaha he is slow as hell, Bruce Campbell is faster.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 12:22 PM
his dad says he was hurt fwiw and that he "probably shouldn't" have ran. He is clearly not a 4.6 guy on tape too. Then again, the scouts did anticipate him running in the 4.5 range in Indy.

Splat
03-17-2010, 12:22 PM
Game film > 40 times.

gpngc
03-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Game film > 40 times.

Really.

We've watched Spikes dominate the SEC for years - who cares about his 40 time.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Behind-the-times-MLB-shortshuttle.html

Lofa Tatupu ran a 4.83, Curtis Lofton a 4.79, Antonio Pierce was slow as anything down the stretch of his career.

Of course Spikes isn't going to play Mike in C2, but he's not going to drop far at all because he didn't run particularly fast in tights. He's always been a thumper and a hell of a MLB. And like Tatupu, he definitely plays faster than his 40-time might indicate - if you've seen him play you know that.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 12:30 PM
usually guys who can only play in a 3-4 system fall a little, but this year might be different since there's 15 or 16 teams who run a 3-4, which is half of the league. It might hurt guys more if they can only play in a 4-3 nowadays.

3pac
03-17-2010, 12:34 PM
Can anyone find video of this yet? I really want to see Tebow's new release.

P-L
03-17-2010, 12:48 PM
Lofa Tatupu ran a 4.83, Curtis Lofton a 4.79, Antonio Pierce was slow as anything down the stretch of his career.
There is an enormous difference between a 5.05 and a 4.83.

Supporting Caste
03-17-2010, 12:48 PM
Mike Tomlin likes Carlos Dunlap. If we drafted him in the first, I would be pretty upset.

He ran a 4.59 today.

Ok, so the Florida track is whack. Noted.

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 12:51 PM
Ok, so the Florida track is whack. Noted.

Wet grass is whack.

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 12:55 PM
Wet grass is SLOWER than a track, so Haden IMO proved he can scoot.

Dunlap's time is no surprise and I could see him sneaking into the end of the first, if not higher.
Didn't he run that time at a bodyweight of over 280#??

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 01:00 PM
I think Dunlap was closer to 260 than 280 at the combine "if memory serves me correct."

ElectricEye
03-17-2010, 01:03 PM
Interested to hear what Dunlap weighed with that time. Honestly think he could be on the Patriots radar as an OLB. Not sure how I feel about it, but there's rumblings.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 01:04 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/03/11/pro.days.draft.news.tracker/index.html?xid=si_nfl

"Joe Haden looked good in position drills and displayed tremendous ball skills. His footwork was smooth and very fluid. Haden's 40 time may have been a bit slower than we first reported. A number of scouts have since told us their watches read 4.52 when Haden crossed the line, as opposed to the 4.45 we initially reported."

ThePudge
03-17-2010, 01:04 PM
I think Dunlap was closer to 260 than 280 at the combine "if memory serves me correct."

277.

Daniel Jeremiah (former Ravens/Browns scout) has reported scouts had Spikes at 4.94 and Haden at 4.42.... 5.05 might've been a low number, 4.94 isn't fast (at all) but it's a tenth faster.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 01:05 PM
also....."Florida QB Tim Tebow reportedly showed unimpressive arm strength with his new throwing motion at Wednesday's Pro Day.
Some observers have called the new technique "mechanical," in that it has reduced Tebow's looping motion, but now involves a pause in the delivery. SI.com's Tony Pauline reports that Tebow's accuracy was good, but he didn't throw tight spirals and wasn't able to deliver the ball with all his might."

K Train
03-17-2010, 01:06 PM
dunlap will be a bengal....odom had a bad injury, dunlap has character concerns and his dad is a bail bondsman which means he could help the bengals in several way.

thats a hell of a time on wet grass though

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:09 PM
SI is saying that Tebow honestly doesn't look that great. Not throwing a tight spiral, throwing it behind the receiver or a bit too low, and he's lacking oomph on the throws. This seems very different to the reporting posted earlier in the thread......

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:10 PM
also....."Florida QB Tim Tebow reportedly showed unimpressive arm strength with his new throwing motion at Wednesday's Pro Day.
Some observers have called the new technique "mechanical," in that it has reduced Tebow's looping motion, but now involves a pause in the delivery. SI.com's Tony Pauline reports that Tebow's accuracy was good, but he didn't throw tight spirals and wasn't able to deliver the ball with all his might."

Wups, you beat me to it. Didn't refresh the page as I was reading haha.

Addict
03-17-2010, 01:10 PM
also....."Florida QB Tim Tebow reportedly showed unimpressive arm strength with his new throwing motion at Wednesday's Pro Day.
Some observers have called the new technique "mechanical," in that it has reduced Tebow's looping motion, but now involves a pause in the delivery. SI.com's Tony Pauline reports that Tebow's accuracy was good, but he didn't throw tight spirals and wasn't able to deliver the ball with all his might."

if that's the tendency of the rest of the reporting at least we know how 'reliable' msn foxsports is, I guess.

Haden's 4.52 on wet grass is still pretty good.

ElectricEye
03-17-2010, 01:10 PM
So I'm judging by the lack of chatter Riley Cooper did not run? That's sort of surprising to me. Thought he would want to improve on his combine time.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 01:12 PM
Fox has such a tebow/florida boner that by saying they ran on "wet grass" they probably really ran on a dry rubber mat ; )

MURPHMAN
03-17-2010, 01:13 PM
I wonder if Tebow slips to the third round now. Probably not.

Addict
03-17-2010, 01:15 PM
I wonder if Tebow slips to the third round now. Probably not.

no. Some savvy GM will pick him up just for the fans he brings in. Tebow = instant dough.

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:18 PM
no. Some savvy GM will pick him up just for the fans he brings in. Tebow = instant dough.

I'd guess Jax or Buffalo followed by Oakland or Cleveland (longshots). God knows they could use some added fan interest. Assuming a team like the Colts/Pats doesn't decide to take him.....

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 01:19 PM
Is ESPN's report on Tebow's showing at Florida's pro day regurgitated comments from scouts who were there, or the opinion of ESPN reporters??

If I was a scout there and my team was considering drafting Tebow, OF COURSE I'm telling a reporter the kid looked 'underwhelming'.

And how did reports on Haden's 40 time range from the low 4.4s to the low 4.5s??

Cover 2 stud prospect. Looks like a future dog in most man schemes.

K Train
03-17-2010, 01:24 PM
Is ESPN's report on Tebow's showing at Florida's pro day regurgitated comments from scouts who were there, or the opinion of ESPN reporters??

If I was a scout there and my team was considering drafting Tebow, OF COURSE I'm telling a reporter the kid looked 'underwhelming'.

And how did reports on Haden's 40 time range from the low 4.4s to the low 4.5s??

Cover 2 stud prospect. Looks like a future dog in most man schemes.

no way...ive always looked at haden as a corner that has to be on a WRs hip to be at his best

RWills
03-17-2010, 01:26 PM
The whole ESPN scouts is a complete joke, they still are calling Dwyer a borderline 1st round pick, headlined by Todd McShame who knows only what the cue cards say

descendency
03-17-2010, 01:29 PM
does anyone have the splits on spikes 40 time? If he ran 5 anything, he can forget being a 43 MLB.

Tebow is still my #3 QB (yes, still) because he has probably the strongest arm of any of the big QBs. I don't like his lack of spiral or his crazy long delivery, but a year or two under NFL coaching and I think everyone might be mad they passed up on him. For that, I give him a solid second round grade. If nothing else, I could see him as a special teams captain.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 01:34 PM
So I'm judging by the lack of chatter Riley Cooper did not run? That's sort of surprising to me. Thought he would want to improve on his combine time.

Supposedly Cooper wasnt going to run but read he looked real good in the cone drills. Who knows what works nowadays, in a way you're almost better off not even running and let the pundants say how fast you are based on game speed.

As for Tebow you cant really get anything close to an objective point of view on this guy, the haters are still going to find fault with him. Pretty safe to say someone will take him pretty early, just need to figure out who that someone is.

K Train
03-17-2010, 01:34 PM
i still love spikes in the 2nd for the steelers

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:35 PM
does anyone have the splits on spikes 40 time? If he ran 5 anything, he can forget being a 43 MLB.

Tebow is still my #3 QB (yes, still) because he has probably the strongest arm of any of the big QBs. I don't like his lack of spiral or his crazy long delivery, but a year or two under NFL coaching and I think everyone might be mad they passed up on him. For that, I give him a solid second round grade. If nothing else, I could see him as a special teams captain.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but SI said his arm strength was bad and he had trouble getting the ball to his receivers.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 01:35 PM
it only takes one team but I think the sentiment has been/still is that Tebow is a third round QB prospect who shouldn't be talked about as much as he has been in terms of a pro prospect not considering his college stats and accolades.

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 01:39 PM
It's just hard for me to believe a guy who's 6'3, 230+#s has 'bad' arm strength.
At worst, he should be able to muscle the football out there.

RWills
03-17-2010, 01:39 PM
Supposedly Cooper wasnt going to run but read he looked real good in the cone drills. Who knows what works nowadays, in a way you're almost better off not even running and let the pundants say how fast you are based on game speed.

As for Tebow you cant really get anything close to an objective point of view on this guy, the haters are still going to find fault with him. Pretty safe to say someone will take him pretty early, just need to figure out who that someone is.

Cause running a 10th faster wouldn't matter for his rankings, it is the cone and short shuttle that matter the most for him.

Job
03-17-2010, 01:40 PM
It's just hard for me to believe a guy who's 6'3, 230+#s has 'bad' arm strength.
At worst, he should be able to muscle the football out there.

Throwing a football far is so not about strength.

RWills
03-17-2010, 01:41 PM
It's just hard for me to believe a guy who's 6'3, 230+#s has 'bad' arm strength.
At worst, he should be able to muscle the football out there.

Im the say way. I can throw a baseball on the line from center field to homeplate. On the other hand I can 't throw the football on a line or as far.

ElectricEye
03-17-2010, 01:43 PM
It's just hard for me to believe a guy who's 6'3, 230+#s has 'bad' arm strength.
At worst, he should be able to muscle the football out there.

It happens all the time. Height/Weight have very little to do with throwing.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 01:45 PM
Pete Carroll had a ton of success with Matt Leinart so i dont think it would be a stretch to predict Tebow to Seattle in the first round.

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:46 PM
Pete Carroll had a ton of success with Matt Leinart so i dont think it would be a stretch to predict Tebow to Seattle in the first round.

Um... I would.

K Train
03-17-2010, 01:47 PM
im like 6-2 225 and i cant throw far, i can throw really ******* hard but i have an awful motion that keeps the ball low.

thats why i didnt go pro lol

ElectricEye
03-17-2010, 01:47 PM
Pete Carroll had a ton of success with Matt Leinart so i dont think it would be a stretch to predict Tebow to Seattle in the first round.

You completely lost me there. What do Matt Leinart and Tebow have in common as players besides being left handed?

RWills
03-17-2010, 01:48 PM
Pete Carroll had a ton of success with Matt Leinart so i dont think it would be a stretch to predict Tebow to Seattle in the first round.

There about to sign Whitehurst to a better than back-up money plus matt still aboard....what does all this say about Jimmy Clausen? I wonder if this guy will be pulling a Quinn/Rogers slide on draft day

Babylon
03-17-2010, 01:49 PM
You completely lost me there. What do Matt Leinart and Tebow have in common as players besides being left handed?

Maybe it's the lefty thing. Both were huge winners in college, neither has a great arm to throw the deep out throws. I see some similarities.

As for anyone doubting someone might take him in the 1st round remember names like Cade McNown and Vince Young.

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:49 PM
There about to sign Whitehurst to a better than back-up money plus matt still aboard....what does all this say about Jimmy Clausen? I wonder if this guy will be pulling a Quinn/Rogers slide on draft day

Jimmy won't fall past the Redskins.

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:51 PM
Maybe it's the lefty thing. Both were huge winners in college, neither has a great arm to throw the deep out throws. I see some similarities.

As for anyone doubting someone might take him in the 1st round remember names like Cade McNown and Vince Young.

Vince Young was argued by many people to be the FIRST OVERALL pick. It was pretty much guaranteed he'd be drafted in the top 10, let alone the first round.

Tebow right now is a 2nd/3rd rounder whose popularity and college accolades garner enough interest that a handful of teams MIGHT consider reaching in the 1st. BIIIIIIIG difference.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 01:53 PM
Vince Young was argued by many people to be the FIRST OVERALL pick. It was pretty much guaranteed he'd be drafted in the top 10, let alone the first round.

Tebow right now is a 2nd/3rd rounder whose popularity and college accolades garner enough interest that a handful of teams MIGHT consider reaching in the 1st. BIIIIIIIG difference.

A lot of people in here hated Vince Young as a pro QB. To me the same questions he had about motion and arm strength are questions that are out there about Tebow.

Addict
03-17-2010, 01:53 PM
Maybe it's the lefty thing. Both were huge winners in college, neither has a great arm to throw the deep out throws. I see some similarities.

As for anyone doubting someone might take him in the 1st round remember names like Cade McNown and Vince Young.

Leinart was a classic pocket passer, Tebow's a dual threat.

And VY was a waaaay different story than Tebow, and really if you're trying to support Tebow, Cade McNown reallly isn't an example you want to use.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 01:54 PM
Leinart was a classic pocket passer, Tebow's a dual threat.

And VY was a waaaay different story than Tebow, and really if you're trying to support Tebow, Cade McNown reallly isn't an example you want to use.

I'm not trying to support Tebow just trying to prepare folks when he does get drafted higher than expected.

3pac
03-17-2010, 01:54 PM
Leinart was a classic pocket passer, Tebow's a dual threat.

And VY was a waaaay different story than Tebow, and really if you're trying to support Tebow, Cade McNown reallly isn't an example you want to use.

^ This. As usual, Addict comes into a topic and instantly makes it better.

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 01:58 PM
It happens all the time. Height/Weight have very little to do with throwing.


If Tebow gets his legs into a throw, he can put the ball wherever he needs it to go.
I think people saying that Tebow has a bad arm are confusing lack of a quick release with arm strength.

Nonetheless, I still believe he has an NFL arm.

His arm strength reminds me of Eli Manning; adequate, but not a rocket.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 02:18 PM
It's just hard for me to believe a guy who's 6'3, 230+#s has 'bad' arm strength.
At worst, he should be able to muscle the football out there.

there's a lot of 6'3"+ guys who weigh 230+ who don't have great arms. Maybe they have bad weight, I don't know....there are guys like Michael Vick and Troy Smith who are 6'1"/220 that have strong arms (really strong in Vick's case) and guys like Todd Boeckman who is 6'5"/240 who just had an average arm. Charlie Frye has a noodle and he's 6'4"/225.

I think Tebow's arm is adequate, but he does throw some lame ducks here and there. If you don't step into your throw it's not gonna have the zip.

stephenson86
03-17-2010, 02:22 PM
IMO Vince Young was a better QB Prospect than Tebow coming out as I believe his scrambling ability was more of a threat than Tebow's. However both guys need refining coming out of college but Young's mechanical issues were not as much of an issue as Tebow's.

Cicero
03-17-2010, 02:37 PM
To all those people on here who were saying Rolando McClain was the flavor of the month and they saw no difference between he and Spikes... How many rounds are you predicting will separate them now?

Phillysteeler
03-17-2010, 02:42 PM
Anybody else think tebow could be a solid west coast quarterback with a few years learning the system? I could see a lot of similarities between he and Garcia (good but not great arm strength and solid athleticism). I think if he could sit and learn the system, it would be his best opportunity to succeed. The big issue will be his accuracy though.

Splat
03-17-2010, 02:44 PM
To all those people on here who were saying Rolando McClain was the flavor of the month and they saw no difference between he and Spikes... How many rounds are you predicting will separate them now?

One.......

descendency
03-17-2010, 02:46 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you, but SI said his arm strength was bad and he had trouble getting the ball to his receivers.

Yea. I said a while back that when he changes his throwing motion anything you could say about him before goes out the window except he has high intangibles. Everything else has to be completely re-evaluated. But the Tebow that played on saturdays had the best arm strength of any top 10 QB in this draft (except Jarrett Brown). Which means he has the most upside of any QB. Granted, most people on this forum don't believe he will ever successfully use that upside.

I still hate his lack of a spiral. I still don't like his average accuracy or his awkward delivery. There is just something that says he will be an NFL player to me though.

IMO Vince Young was a better QB Prospect than Tebow coming out as I believe his scrambling ability was more of a threat than Tebow's. However both guys need refining coming out of college but Young's mechanical issues were not as much of an issue as Tebow's.

Vince Young had the athleticism (both in running and passing) but Tebow won't be on TV with an unloaded gun pointed anywhere near his head.

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 02:46 PM
McClain = top 20 pick, Spikes = early round 3.

descendency
03-17-2010, 02:50 PM
McClain = top 20 pick, Spikes = early round 3.

No way Spikes makes it past NE's 3rd 2nd rounder. He may be slow, but he definitely could be a blitzing ILB.

im like 6-2 225 and i cant throw far, i can throw really ******* hard but i have an awful motion that keeps the ball low.

thats why i didnt go pro lol
I went pro... but went undrafted again :(

Hines
03-17-2010, 02:51 PM
Another off topic player is Freddie Barnes. He only had a 31 inch vert, but ran the 40 in 4.58 and 4.65. Not too bad IMO.

ectuberider
03-17-2010, 02:52 PM
In the video i saw on ESPN.com he seemed to be throwing a pretty tight spiral and Mcshay was raving about the strides he has taken.

BaLLiN
03-17-2010, 02:54 PM
To all those people on here who were saying Rolando McClain was the flavor of the month and they saw no difference between he and Spikes... How many rounds are you predicting will separate them now?

theres no question Rolando's physical attributes were overhyped, Spikes is a somewhat different player with similar negatives. Spikes and McClain both have great instincts and have a knack for making incredible plays which are mostly attributed to their great knowledge of football. While Spikes seems like the better run stuffer, to some considered the better blitzer, and has better hands, Rolando also is younger and exhibiting the same abilities with better fluidity.

It was known that Spikes didnt have great speed, and he had some issues with lateral quickness, but in a defense that realizes his positives he could easily be a pro bowler. My example: Antonio Pierce. I rest my case

keylime_5
03-17-2010, 02:57 PM
No way Spikes makes it past NE's 3rd 2nd rounder. He may be slow, but he definitely could be a blitzing ILB.

there was no way everette brown falls to round two last year. bad things happen to linebackers who run like defensive tackles.

Scott Wright
03-17-2010, 02:57 PM
Antonio Pierce. I rest my case

More like Jeremiah Trotter.

stephenson86
03-17-2010, 03:16 PM
More like Jeremiah Trotter.

he had a good career for a time from what i remember?

Job
03-17-2010, 03:20 PM
Vince Young had the athleticism (both in running and passing) but Tebow won't be on TV with an unloaded gun pointed anywhere near his head.

It will be loaded?

Complex
03-17-2010, 03:37 PM
Jimmy won't fall past the Redskins.

He will fall watch


Is ESPN's report on Tebow's showing at Florida's pro day regurgitated comments from scouts who were there, or the opinion of ESPN reporters??

If I was a scout there and my team was considering drafting Tebow, OF COURSE I'm telling a reporter the kid looked 'underwhelming'.

And how did reports on Haden's 40 time range from the low 4.4s to the low 4.5s??

Cover 2 stud prospect. Looks like a future dog in most man schemes.

Just like I said Cover 2

CC.SD
03-17-2010, 03:49 PM
Really Spikes? Really?

Man just going by game speed, you know this guy could have turned in something below 5 flat with some training. Watch him drop like a rock now...to the Chargers.

JFLO
03-17-2010, 03:54 PM
I think Tebow is a first rounder now, not based on his talent alone, but for his overall persona and his potential if he were to ever fully develop his arm mechanics and pocket presence.

Someone will trade up or pull the trigger on him in the Early 20s - late first round

Complex
03-17-2010, 03:54 PM
Really Spikes? Really?

Man just going by game speed, you know this guy could have turned in something below 5 flat with some training. Watch him drop like a rock now...to the Chargers.

3rd day of the draft maybe

CC.SD
03-17-2010, 04:17 PM
3rd day of the draft maybe

Is the 2nd day the second and third rounds? I keep forgetting. Spikes will probably find himself swimming around the 3rd, there's too many 3-4 teams around now or just getting started.

LonghornsLegend
03-17-2010, 04:27 PM
Tebow is still my #3 QB (yes, still) because he has probably the strongest arm of any of the big QBs. I don't like his lack of spiral or his crazy long delivery, but a year or two under NFL coaching and I think everyone might be mad they passed up on him. For that, I give him a solid second round grade. If nothing else, I could see him as a special teams captain.


That's the thing, the guy works so hard at his craft, if he were to go to a team who could at least sit him down 2 years to learn, by his 3rd year he could end up being a very good QB. All depends on what team takes him because some teams don't have the luxury to do that, even Jacksonville for all the rumors about him going there, would probably put him out there before his 3rd year.


Maybe he doesn't need that many, but I'd like him alot more if I knew I had 2 years and a great QB coach to work with him on the little things about his mechanics knowing full well he'll give it 110% during that time to improve.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 04:34 PM
That's the thing, the guy works so hard at his craft, if he were to go to a team who could at least sit him down 2 years to learn, by his 3rd year he could end up being a very good QB. All depends on what team takes him because some teams don't have the luxury to do that, even Jacksonville for all the rumors about him going there, would probably put him out there before his 3rd year.


Maybe he doesn't need that many, but I'd like him alot more if I knew I had 2 years and a great QB coach to work with him on the little things about his mechanics knowing full well he'll give it 110% during that time to improve.

Seattle (not saying i want him) could sit him behind Hasselbeck for a year then start him in year two. I dont think you need more than that these days.

The Unseen
03-17-2010, 05:48 PM
K, so I was there from around 11 until Tebow finished (I had to leave just when Tebow finished so it was great timing). So I only really saw Haden and Tebow. Haden looked very nice in drills, so he looks good in shorts at least.

Tebow's new motion is probably an improvement, and he did well over all, but several times he threw too low. Also, there were times when it looked like the ball wasn't as fast as it could be, like others were mentioning.

MURPHMAN
03-17-2010, 05:49 PM
Seattle (not saying i want him) could sit him behind Hasselbeck for a year then start him in year two. I dont think you need more than that these days.

Seattle just went with a different plan.

Babylon
03-17-2010, 06:06 PM
Seattle just went with a different plan.

Charlie Whitehurst qualifies as a plan? Welcome to the Pete Carroll era i guess.

critesy
03-17-2010, 06:38 PM
skins
1. okung
2. tebow

oh god, ive fallen for the tebow hype.

but, he could sit behind campbell for a year while the line slowly improves (???) and then learn from shanahan and co, and start year 2 or 3.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-17-2010, 06:41 PM
Tebow would be a no brainer pick if Vinny and Snyder were still running show. I don't see Shanny or Bruce Allen falling in love with Tebow like that.

LonghornsLegend
03-17-2010, 06:54 PM
Seattle (not saying i want him) could sit him behind Hasselbeck for a year then start him in year two. I dont think you need more than that these days.

You really don't, and it be hard to find a team who can spend a pick that early who won't see the field for 2 years, but I think he's a special case in which it would help him tremendously. 1 year is mandatory, but 2 for a guy I know will utilize that time wisely only increases the chances of how well he'd do to me, and how long it would take for him to be a viable NFL starter.

brasho
03-17-2010, 07:04 PM
I'm very interested. The Bucs are reportedly interested in Brandon Spikes so I want to know how he runs, particularly his 10 and 20 times.


No, the Bucs were never interested in Spikes, they were allowed to interview Spikes without going against the limit of 30 player interviews... they interviewed likely all eligible-Gators. The only Bucs that are interested in Spikes are Florida-Homer Buc Fans... and now after Spikes ran a 5.0, hopefully they can shut their traps because the no team that runs a D based on speed will touch this guy.

brasho
03-17-2010, 07:07 PM
Spikes is going to be a mega-******* steal now.

Yeah, probably in round 7 or as an undrafted free agent. Teams will be hesitant to pick him up now, because unless they think he is an immediate starter, they would like him to play special teams... which he can't because he's too slow.

brasho
03-17-2010, 07:13 PM
For his position, his 10 and 20 yard splits are far more important than his 40 speed. His short shuttle and 3 cone are also more indicative of area abilities. As for the "can't teach speed" myth, what do you think track coaches do? A couple of months of form and plyometrics can "teach" plenty of speed, I've had students drop 3-4 tenths off of their 40 times by "teaching" them.

Yeah, you've had "Students" do that... so have I.... but this guy has been playing football at college's highest level... don't you think he has been doing plyo and speed strength training already?

I've coached track as well as being a sport specific and speed coach and yes, we can coach up speed but we have to have something work with. I can always get somebody faster, but faster for them does not mean they will ever be fast. The chances are likely that Spikes HAS been doing speed work and 5.05 is what he came down to.

Not being able to teach speed is NOT a myth, you can help a guy get a little faster, but for a guy that has been in a program, has received speed training, he would be lucky to get his speed down two tenths of a second in his lifetime.

K Train
03-17-2010, 07:24 PM
Yeah, probably in round 7 or as an undrafted free agent. Teams will be hesitant to pick him up now, because unless they think he is an immediate starter, they would like him to play special teams... which he can't because he's too slow.

i cant see him going the ali highsmith direction....hes still a second, third at worst pick

SUP
03-18-2010, 08:51 AM
Yeah, probably in round 7 or as an undrafted free agent. Teams will be hesitant to pick him up now, because unless they think he is an immediate starter, they would like him to play special teams... which he can't because he's too slow.

you're a ****** if you think Spikes falls to the 7th or UDFA


Lets put something on Spikes being drafted before the 7th....

SUP
03-18-2010, 08:54 AM
Yeah, you've had "Students" do that... so have I.... but this guy has been playing football at college's highest level... don't you think he has been doing plyo and speed strength training already?

I've coached track as well as being a sport specific and speed coach and yes, we can coach up speed but we have to have something work with. I can always get somebody faster, but faster for them does not mean they will ever be fast. The chances are likely that Spikes HAS been doing speed work and 5.05 is what he came down to.

Not being able to teach speed is NOT a myth, you can help a guy get a little faster, but for a guy that has been in a program, has received speed training, he would be lucky to get his speed down two tenths of a second in his lifetime.


I didn't see his run, but it is possible that is form (and most likely his starts are completely ****** up) in which it is not out of the realm of possibility that he could of lost .2 or .3 seconds on his 40. Now a 4.7 or 4.8 isnt a burner, but it would help.

The 40 is such a crock of **** anyways, but guys know they test it, so they need to prepare for it.

fear the elf
03-18-2010, 09:06 AM
Tim Tebow will conduct individual workouts for the Browns, Bills, Seahawks, Patriots, and Redskins (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/03/report_cleveland_browns_are_on.html)

LizardState
03-18-2010, 09:28 AM
For once I think ESPN & NFL Live got it right -- the Patriots s/b the best Tebow fit with the Belichick history of developing projects, & Tebow sure qualifies in that category as an NFL QB.

Did anyone else notice his footwork in his new & improved throwing technique on the footage from Gainesville yesterday? He looked like he was dancing a jig on St. Patrick's Day, instead of stepping into the throws he seemed to be kicking out with that front foot -- btw the left one, he's a lefty, so his passes spiral the direction opposite from what most receivers in the NFL are seeing, a little thing but looms large at the pro level, Steve Young & many other lefties have had to overcome the same. It seemed like his change in throwing motion was still a work in progress & nowhere near enough time or effort expended so far to perfect it for a Pro Day, hence the scheduled team workouts.

And Eye Gouger Spikes, a 5-oh-5 ? I was LOLing & cackling loudly Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha when I heard that..... when you have character issues to overcome by performance & that performance falls way way subpar, let's just say that Spikes is the new poster boy for Player Most Likely to Drop Like A Rock in the 2010 Draft. ESPN said he's fallen out of the 1st 2 rounds, I could see him lower than that.

FUNBUNCHER
03-18-2010, 09:36 AM
Spikes will run again before the draft on a TRACK this time and get his 40 down in the 4.8 range. Bet.

MizzouBig12
03-18-2010, 09:39 AM
Yeah, you've had "Students" do that... so have I.... but this guy has been playing football at college's highest level... don't you think he has been doing plyo and speed strength training already?

I've coached track as well as being a sport specific and speed coach and yes, we can coach up speed but we have to have something work with. I can always get somebody faster, but faster for them does not mean they will ever be fast. The chances are likely that Spikes HAS been doing speed work and 5.05 is what he came down to.

Not being able to teach speed is NOT a myth, you can help a guy get a little faster, but for a guy that has been in a program, has received speed training, he would be lucky to get his speed down two tenths of a second in his lifetime.
Hey Brasho, easy now! As a speed and position training coach, you know that speed can indeed be "taught", and improved through proper training and technique, I was merely lashing out at the throwaway line that the previous poster had included in his post, "you can't teach speed", which is baloney.
As for Spikes, you may be right. However, I think that he can be much faster, but he has a checkered past, and I am of the opinion that he didn't train for the sprints as he should have. That in itself should be a red flag to any teams looking at him in the draft.

fear the elf
03-18-2010, 10:07 AM
For once I think ESPN & NFL Live got it right -- the Patriots s/b the best Tebow fit with the Belichick history of developing projects, & Tebow sure qualifies in that category as an NFL QB.

Did anyone else notice his footwork in his new & improved throwing technique on the footage from Gainesville yesterday? He looked like he was dancing a jig on St. Patrick's Day, instead of stepping into the throws he seemed to be kicking out with that front foot -- btw the left one, he's a lefty, so his passes spiral the direction opposite from what most receivers in the NFL are seeing, a little thing but looms large at the pro level, Steve Young & many other lefties have had to overcome the same. It seemed like his change in throwing motion was still a work in progress & nowhere near enough time or effort expended so far to perfect it for a Pro Day, hence the scheduled team workouts.

And Eye Gouger Spikes, a 5-oh-5 ? I was LOLing & cackling loudly Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha when I heard that..... when you have character issues to overcome by performance & that performance falls way way subpar, let's just say that Spikes is the new poster boy for Player Most Likely to Drop Like A Rock in the 2010 Draft. ESPN said he's fallen out of the 1st 2 rounds, I could see him lower than that.

As far as I know, the only misstep Spikes has ever had is the "eye gouge" incident, and he did the right thing afterwards, benching himself for the entire game.

The Browns have reportedly scheduled an interview with him. I hope they jump all over him if he drops to the top of the 3rd.

murdamal86
03-18-2010, 10:12 AM
And Eye Gouger Spikes, a 5-oh-5 ? I was LOLing & cackling loudly Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha when I heard that..... when you have character issues to overcome by performance & that performance falls way way subpar, let's just say that Spikes is the new poster boy for Player Most Likely to Drop Like A Rock in the 2010 Draft. ESPN said he's fallen out of the 1st 2 rounds, I could see him lower than that.

Name another incident besides the eye gouging against UGA that would place him the "character issues" category

MiWolves
03-18-2010, 10:20 AM
It might be his only offense but its a big ass one. It's like "hey i'm going to make you blind for the rest of your life but hey that's fine with me"

yourfavestoner
03-18-2010, 10:26 AM
It might be his only offense but its a big ass one. It's like "hey i'm going to make you blind for the rest of your life but hey that's fine with me"

You realize **** like that happens in every game, right?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/players/01/25/pile0131/index.html

Anybody who thinks eye-gouging is the worst thing to happen to humanity since the Holocaust needs to read that article.


"At Tampa Bay, I had the ball at the bottom of the pile. It was away from my body, and I was trying to pull it toward me. Two guys were pulling my arms apart. A guy was digging into my ribs. Another guy was digging into my ear. The only way you'll keep the ball in that situation is if you have a teammate helping you and you can get it into your body and cradle it. Anyway, I lost the ball. There were still four people on top of me, including that ear guy. I said, 'I don't have the freaking ball anymore, stop digging in my ear.'"


"When we played the Patriots last year [Eagles running back] Brian Westbrook fumbled a punt, and we were all down there scrambling for it. [Patriots linebacker] Mike Vrabel had my testicles in his hand, and he was squeezing them. Where the football ends up depends on who has the strongest will or the strongest hands. Guys reach inside the face mask to gouge your eyes. But the biggest thing is the grabbing of the testicles. It is crazy."


"I don't know if people really want to know what goes on down there: Basically anything you can't get away with on the field, you can get away with under that pile. Nobody can see you. The go-to spots are the eyes and the family jewels. If anybody grabs your family jewels, you are going to let go. In the pile you hear some screams of pain, but you don't know where it is coming from -- unless it's you."


"The defensive linemen grab at your nuts, people try to poke your eyes out. If you're on the bottom, close in and tuck, do the fetal position. It's real ugly down there. But no spitting. Think about it -- you might spit on yourself."

LizardState
03-18-2010, 10:32 AM
Name another incident besides the eye gouging against UGA that would place him the "character issues" category

Why is another incident required to place him in the character issues category?

yourfavestoner
03-18-2010, 10:34 AM
Why is another incident required to place him in the character issues category?

Because by that criteria, just about everybody in the league has character issues. Just look at the last post I made.

I always find the double standard held for football players now to be so ridiculous. This is a game that promotes violence and aggression, yet we expect the players to be able to flip the switch between angel and devil like its nothing. **** like that happens man. It's not like Spikes is passing out drunk in his car the week before the SEC Title game or anything.

Roger Goodell would have **** himself if he had been commissioner in the 70s and 80s.

SUP
03-18-2010, 10:51 AM
The people who freak about the Spikes incident obviously never played COMPETITIVE TACKLE FOOTBALL before...

Razor
03-18-2010, 10:52 AM
The people who freak about the Spikes incident obviously never played COMPETITIVE TACKLE FOOTBALL before...

I agree. I've done worse things than that just playing soccer. It's no big deal.

yourfavestoner
03-18-2010, 10:53 AM
The people who freak about the Spikes incident obviously never played COMPETITIVE TACKLE FOOTBALL before...

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

When I played, the most popular dirty move used in piles would be to hold onto the runner's legs and alligator roll on the ground. It doesn't look dirty to the ref or anything, but that **** will snap your ankle if they do it hard enough.

Morton
03-18-2010, 10:55 AM
yourfavstoner: Thanks for the link, but I really didn't need the mental image of Mike Vrabel squeezing a guy's testicles this early in the morning.

LonghornsLegend
03-18-2010, 11:43 AM
Herm Edwdards brought up a good point about this pro day. Most of the concerns were about him being under center, and his footwork dropping back. There was no center in sight, and he didn't take one snap from under center and do any 5 or 7 step drops.


That's where he looked so damn clumsy at the Senior Bowl, so none of those questions were answered yet. Would of liked to see more of that.

ironman4579
03-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Anyone that doesn't think Spikes could potentially go undrafted after that horrid 40 needs to hear only one name: Ernest Shazor. Will Spikes get drafted? Probably. But is it at least possible he doesn't? Absolutely.

Don't get me wrong. There's a big difference between a slow safety and a slow LB. I'm just saying there's always a chance he actually doesn't get drafted.

P-L
03-18-2010, 12:27 PM
I definitely think he will get drafted, but I bet there are a ton of surprised people when he's still on the board Saturday afternoon. People can yell about how 40 times aren't important until they are blue in the face, but NFL personnel think differently. A linebacker who runs slower than a lot of linemen just isn't going to get drafted in the first few rounds. Remember Kai Parham? He went from 2nd/3rd Round to undrafted after running a 5.03 40 time. Granted, he didn't have the collegiate career that Spikes did but it's still worth noting.

ThePudge
03-18-2010, 12:30 PM
I wonder who the last Linebacker to get drafted in the top 3 rounds depite 5.0+ speed. Brandon Spikes can kiss the top two-three rounds goodbye. I still think he's a nice value in the Early-Mid 4th and later.

keylime_5
03-18-2010, 04:41 PM
Can you imagine if Tebow changes his mechanics and footwork like he is doing and then goes on to be a star QB in the NFL? That would be a wild story, I don't think we've seen anything like that before - a guy completely changing his mechanics and becoming a pocket passer after playing in that Urban Meyer offense. That's why I want the Browns to draft him, if he does that he could become a draft legend.

SUP
03-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Anyone that doesn't think Spikes could potentially go undrafted after that horrid 40 needs to hear only one name: Ernest Shazor. Will Spikes get drafted? Probably. But is it at least possible he doesn't? Absolutely.

Don't get me wrong. There's a big difference between a slow safety and a slow LB. I'm just saying there's always a chance he actually doesn't get drafted.

Suh and McCoy could decide that they want to get married to each other and take up professional basketweaving and not get drafted...

Anybody who is saying that Spikes could go undrafted, lets put some money on that.

Addict
03-18-2010, 05:17 PM
I wonder who the last Linebacker to get drafted in the top 3 rounds depite 5.0+ speed. Brandon Spikes can kiss the top two-three rounds goodbye. I still think he's a nice value in the Early-Mid 4th and later.

call me a sadist but he had to have known about this. He had to have known he wasn't gonna be fast. So why did he not just injure himself? Bust up your ankle or knee or whatever. Yeah you'll raise eyebrows and doubts, but just think of the money you'll make!

Spikes should have faked or created an injury. Yes it'd have been suspicious at best, but at least it would have left his speed concerns unfounded.

keylime_5
03-18-2010, 05:54 PM
if he did injure himself then either he couldn't run (and that probably would've still kept him out of round 2) or he would run and it would be even slower (5.3ish maybe). If you're about to get drafted and make potentially millions of dollars then it would probably be unwise to hurt yourself, think about it.

yourfavestoner
03-18-2010, 05:59 PM
If the injury was faked, the 409385309485 doctors at the combine would have known almost immediately,

Addict
03-18-2010, 06:34 PM
If the injury was faked, the 409385309485 doctors at the combine would have known almost immediately,

yes, but I'm talking about his pro day. Fake an injury, hell, break two of your own toes and say you'll need them to heal so you can't run. If you're so slow that running would hurt your draft stock to the point where you being drafted at all is in jeopardy, then you should find or create a reason not to run.

if he did injure himself then either he couldn't run (and that probably would've still kept him out of round 2) or he would run and it would be even slower (5.3ish maybe). If you're about to get drafted and make potentially millions of dollars then it would probably be unwise to hurt yourself, think about it.

but he injured himself he would have reason not to run and leave it to the tape where he looks like a good player, not a fast one, but there's no forty time to illustrate it. From a player standpoint it makes no sense to run, and Spikes had to have known how slow he was going to be. Like I said above, avoid running then, at all costs. Yes the doubts may drop you to second or third round, but that's no big deal, you'll still be drafted. With your slow as hell 5.00 forty you risk not being drafted at all.

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

SUP
03-18-2010, 07:05 PM
yes, but I'm talking about his pro day. Fake an injury, hell, break two of your own toes and say you'll need them to heal so you can't run. If you're so slow that running would hurt your draft stock to the point where you being drafted at all is in jeopardy, then you should find or create a reason not to run.



but he injured himself he would have reason not to run and leave it to the tape where he looks like a good player, not a fast one, but there's no forty time to illustrate it. From a player standpoint it makes no sense to run, and Spikes had to have known how slow he was going to be. Like I said above, avoid running then, at all costs. Yes the doubts may drop you to second or third round, but that's no big deal, you'll still be drafted. With your slow as hell 5.00 forty you risk not being drafted at all.

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?


Its not, I understand what you are saying. He had the achilles or whatever problem from the season, he could of just dragged that injury out. I really dont think he expected to run a 5 flat. My guess is that he thought he might of been high 4.7s or something. IDK.

I still dont think this drops him out of the 3rd, definately won't drop him past the 4th.

ironman4579
03-18-2010, 07:10 PM
Suh and McCoy could decide that they want to get married to each other and take up professional basketweaving and not get drafted...

Anybody who is saying that Spikes could go undrafted, lets put some money on that.

I'm saying he'll likely get drafted, but I highly doubt it's in the first three rounds.

superman8456
03-18-2010, 07:20 PM
Typical "ZOMGZZ 40 TIMEZZZ = ENDZ ALL BEEEE ALLLLL"

Rosebud
03-18-2010, 07:27 PM
I'm saying he'll likely get drafted, but I highly doubt it's in the first three rounds.

i just can't see him falling out of the top 3 rounds, when healthy the dude's just as quick and explosive as Rey rey out there and rey rey went in the second round and has been successful. I think Spikes is going to be just as good as Maluaga and a massive steal because of this 40. There just has to be one team that's sitting there looking at LBs in round 3 that remembers his junior tape and then runs up to the commish to draft him.

Addict
03-18-2010, 07:31 PM
i just can't see him falling out of the top 3 rounds, when healthy the dude's just as quick and explosive as Rey rey out there and rey rey went in the second round and has been successful. I think Spikes is going to be just as good as Maluaga and a massive steal because of this 40. There just has to be one team that's sitting there looking at LBs in round 3 that remembers his junior tape and then runs up to the commish to draft him.

this thread and the Brandon Spikes thread have been filled with guys who were gamers in college, were projected to the top 3 rounds but fell out of the draft entirely because of bad forties. Speed is a big factor in the NFL, for most positions.

And if Spikes ran poorly because of his injury, than like I said, he should have dragged it or even re-injure himself (real or faked I don't care). It's that simple. This is more than your athletic pride at stake, this is your pro sports paycheck and the difference between having one and having to get a real job. And real jobs suck.

Typical "ZOMGZZ 40 TIMEZZZ = ENDZ ALL BEEEE ALLLLL"

don't be so simple, a 5 second forty is a problem for a player who isn't on the offensive line or over 320 pounds.

superman8456
03-18-2010, 07:36 PM
don't be so simple, a 5 second forty is a problem for a player who isn't on the offensive line or over 320 pounds.

It's definitely something that would raise an eyebrow, but it should be nothing more. Drop him out of the first three rounds because of a slow 40? The Patriots, Dolphins (probably not anymore), Cardinals, possibly Redskins, etc all need ILB. He is clearly the 3rd, at the very least, ILB in this class. Daryl Washington and Rolando McClain are the only two better.

ironman4579
03-18-2010, 07:37 PM
Addict pretty much said everything. You can come up with a laundry list of decorated college players with great tape that were projected in the first 3 rounds and fell into the late rounds or out of the draft altogether after horrid 40's.

ironman4579
03-18-2010, 07:39 PM
It's definitely something that would raise an eyebrow, but it should be nothing more. Drop him out of the first three rounds because of a slow 40? The Patriots, Dolphins (probably not anymore), Cardinals, possibly Redskins, etc all need ILB. He is clearly the 3rd, at the very least, ILB in this class. Daryl Washington and Rolando McClain are the only two better.

Perhaps is should be nothing more. I'm of the mind that game tape should trump 40 times. That doesn't mean that it won't mean anything more. Again, plenty of players with great tape, decorated college players, fell out of the draft entirely after exceptionally bad 40's. And that's what this is. It's not just kind of bad, or a little slower than expected. It's terrible.

LonghornsLegend
03-18-2010, 08:00 PM
What are some of these examples of guys who were projected to go top 3 rounds right before their pro day, and fell out of the draft completely strictly to their 40.


I'm curious on who some of these guys were.

Rosebud
03-18-2010, 08:02 PM
this thread and the Brandon Spikes thread have been filled with guys who were gamers in college, were projected to the top 3 rounds but fell out of the draft entirely because of bad forties. Speed is a big factor in the NFL, for most positions.

And if Spikes ran poorly because of his injury, than like I said, he should have dragged it or even re-injure himself (real or faked I don't care). It's that simple. This is more than your athletic pride at stake, this is your pro sports paycheck and the difference between having one and having to get a real job. And real jobs suck.



don't be so simple, a 5 second forty is a problem for a player who isn't on the offensive line or over 320 pounds.

None of those players mentioned are comparable prospects to Brandon Spikes gamers though they may be. Rey rey, a comparable prospect, ran a 4.9 at the combine last year, he improved that time at his proday, but the point is that he did run that time at first. I've heard that some believe that the wet track may have slowed times down by a whole tenth of a second in which case Spikes is starting with a 4.9 the same way rey did.

superman8456
03-18-2010, 08:04 PM
Perhaps is should be nothing more. I'm of the mind that game tape should trump 40 times. That doesn't mean that it won't mean anything more. Again, plenty of players with great tape, decorated college players, fell out of the draft entirely after exceptionally bad 40's. And that's what this is. It's not just kind of bad, or a little slower than expected. It's terrible.

Many people expected a slow time from him. I don't understand why so many people are so surprised. In the predicted 40 time thread, 4.9s were thrown around with his name. People knew he did not have good straight line speed.

keylime_5
03-18-2010, 08:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that the Florida pro day track was slower than the combine's. If it was then the distance wasn't a full 40 yards, hehe. Dunlap and Haden improved their time THAT much over the combine on a wet field? sounds fishy.

Addict
03-18-2010, 08:58 PM
I have a hard time believing that the Florida pro day track was slower than the combine's. If it was then the distance wasn't a full 40 yards, hehe. Dunlap and Haden improved their time THAT much over the combine on a wet field? sounds fishy.

All it takes is getting of the line slightly better to run a better forty. Haden especially, since his speed was slower than expected. That could easily have just been his start not being ideal.

Many people expected a slow time from him. I don't understand why so many people are so surprised. In the predicted 40 time thread, 4.9s were thrown around with his name. People knew he did not have good straight line speed.

he ran over 5.00 on a pro day, where players traditionally run faster than in the combine. That's a problem. Now I'm not saying he won't be drafted, he probably will, but you need to stop acting like this is nothing.

superman8456
03-18-2010, 09:02 PM
he ran over 5.00 on a pro day, where players traditionally run faster than in the combine. That's a problem. Now I'm not saying he won't be drafted, he probably will, but you need to stop acting like this is nothing.

Not every track is a fast track. Some people just run faster because they practice more, but please, continue reading too deeply into 40 times.

ironman4579
03-18-2010, 09:11 PM
What are some of these examples of guys who were projected to go top 3 rounds right before their pro day, and fell out of the draft completely strictly to their 40.


I'm curious on who some of these guys were.

As I said before, Ernest Shazor is the first name that comes to my mind. If I remember correctly (and I do), Scott and most other draft sites were mocking him in the late first prior to Michigan's pro day. After an awful 40 time, he was still being mocked in the 3rd by just about everyone. He ended up going undrafted.



EDIT: I see what you did there. Made a point of saying "strictly because of their 40." Obviously you can never say that only one thing caused a guy that would have been a first day selection to go undrafted. Obviously there is more to it than just that. That said, if teams have concerns about a certain area of a players game, ie. coverage ability at the next level, that slow 40 might cause them to go back and look at other things as well, or push those concerns already noted beyond what they are willing to accept. I believe Spikes will get drafted, but people acting like there's no chance he doesn't hear his name called until the 4th round or later are sticking their heads in the sand.

Malaka
03-18-2010, 10:33 PM
Ali Highsmith ran a 5 flat went from 2nd round to UDFA... I think on the Cards currently. That's who Spikes is reminding me of right now.

Rosebud
03-19-2010, 12:22 AM
Ali Highsmith ran a 5 flat went from 2nd round to UDFA... I think on the Cards currently. That's who Spikes is reminding me of right now.

Then you've never seen Highsmith play. If Daryl Washington had run a 5.0 he'd remind people of Highsmith but Spikes is a completely different LB, he's way bigger, more powerful, on a completely different level as a pass rusher and a better tackler/leader. Spikes is reminding me of Rey Rey from last year, except Spikes was coming off an injury so is a little later in the process.

LonghornsLegend
03-19-2010, 12:36 AM
As I said before, Ernest Shazor is the first name that comes to my mind. If I remember correctly (and I do), Scott and most other draft sites were mocking him in the late first prior to Michigan's pro day. After an awful 40 time, he was still being mocked in the 3rd by just about everyone. He ended up going undrafted.



EDIT: I see what you did there. Made a point of saying "strictly because of their 40." Obviously you can never say that only one thing caused a guy that would have been a first day selection to go undrafted. Obviously there is more to it than just that. That said, if teams have concerns about a certain area of a players game, ie. coverage ability at the next level, that slow 40 might cause them to go back and look at other things as well, or push those concerns already noted beyond what they are willing to accept. I believe Spikes will get drafted, but people acting like there's no chance he doesn't hear his name called until the 4th round or later are sticking their heads in the sand.



I chose to word it that way because that's the exact way you did:



Addict pretty much said everything. You can come up with a laundry list of decorated college players with great tape that were projected in the first 3 rounds and fell into the late rounds or out of the draft altogether after horrid 40's.


So were talking "strictly 40's here". Since you said, in your own words, " You can come up with a laundry list of decorated college players", I asked you for some of them. If there is a laundry list you should be able to come up plenty quite easily.


You came up with one. I'm not saying there haven't been cases of this before, but at least back up what you say. If you want to say there is a laundry list of players that this happened to before, that were highly decorated college players, let's see it.

Saints-Tigers
03-19-2010, 03:22 AM
Ali Highsmith is a guy that was coveted because he was perceived as extremely fast for a LB.

Think if CJ Spiller came in and ran a 4.6...

Spikes running slow, coming off injury, on a wet surface isn't a big deal.

Splat
03-19-2010, 11:55 AM
Tebow working out for Patriots (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Tebow-working-out-for-Patriots?urn=nfl,228972)

49erNation85
03-19-2010, 11:57 AM
Tebow working out for Patriots (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Tebow-working-out-for-Patriots?urn=nfl,228972)


god no please no . Any team but the pats !!! :confused:

fear the elf
03-19-2010, 01:29 PM
Tim Tebow will conduct individual workouts for the Browns, Bills, Seahawks, Patriots, and Redskins (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/03/report_cleveland_browns_are_on.html)

I posted this yesterday, a couple pages back.

Babylon
03-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Of the group of 4 or 5 supposedly interested in Tebow i think New England and Seattle would make the most sense. The Pats love to think outside the box and frankly love the attention. Seatte because Pete Carroll has a short term QB anwer in Hasselbeck and Whitehurst can afford to work Tebow in slowly. Another thing with Carroll is he has a long term deal and those guys seem to be the ones trying to make bold moves.

FUNBUNCHER
03-20-2010, 12:38 PM
Tebow has a private workout scheduled with the Skins and Mike Shanahan too.

Shhhh...don't tell anyone.
It's supposed to be top secret!! Well, maybe not that big a secret, but there's speculation that Shanahan may go with an OT at #4 barring a trade down and either stand pat or move into the late 1st to snag Timmy.

keylime_5
03-20-2010, 12:59 PM
i hope they do. maybe we can get clausen or berry to fall to us that way.

Splat
03-20-2010, 01:01 PM
I really think the Skins are going to draft Clausen at #4.

Supporting Caste
03-20-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm 100% sure that the Patriots are doing this to drum up trade interest. They have no use for Tebow and, quite frankly, Belichick isn't dumb enough to draft him.

ThePudge
03-20-2010, 01:28 PM
Of the group of 4 or 5 supposedly interested in Tebow i think New England and Seattle would make the most sense. The Pats love to think outside the box and frankly love the attention. Seatte because Pete Carroll has a short term QB anwer in Hasselbeck and Whitehurst can afford to work Tebow in slowly. Another thing with Carroll is he has a long term deal and those guys seem to be the ones trying to make bold moves.

I'm not sure about that, personally I think Buffalo/Jacksonville (small market teams) and Cleveland are the best fits for Tebow. I have concerns about his ability to adjust to the Lake Erie climate that both Buffalo/Cleveland bring, but I think they are the places he fits in most.

For Buffalo, or any small market team, selling tickets is a primary concern. Generating interest/buzz with Tebow beats the NT/LT that the Bills would likely go with in the first two rounds. I'd imagine Trent Edwards will be the starter there next year, but if picked at the top of the 2nd I think the former Gator great could come in and in his first year contribute out of certain formations (such as the Wildcat). Ultimately I think he'll be groomed as the starting Quarterback there when some pieces (notably LT/WR) are in place.

For Jacksonville the move makes sense on a lot of the same levels as Buffalo. A local product with a God-like image in the state of Florida would help the franchise struggling (most visibly) to fill the seats on Sunday. David Garrard may have made the Pro Bowl a year ago but I'm one that believes he's simply not very good, he doesn't energize the fanbase, and there's no chance of this team rebuilding itself around him in my opinion. Tebow could come in, sit for a year or two (like Buffalo) playing sparingly in some formations & give the team a future at the QB position.

Cleveland is a situation I've liked for Tebow since the Jake Delhomme signing & I think with backup Seneca Wallace in place, Mike Holmgren's Browns offer him the best opportunity to sit, learn, and develop. I don't think he needs to be rushed into that situation and Holmgren will find some way to get him on the field. Due to Cleveland's loyal fanbase & the improvement they're likely to see over the next couple years, they're likely keep the pressure off Browns' coaches to start Tebow and give him the best chance to succeed. I'm not sure he's the best fit for their new WCO but he's exactly the type of competitor that new GM Mike Holmgren loves & would give the team a future at the Quarterback position.

Supporting Caste
03-20-2010, 01:32 PM
God, I hope Oakland drafts him. that would be glorious.


In all seriousness, I can definitely see Tebow going to Buffalo at 9, hysterically stupid as that would be. That organization doesn't have a clue.

SUP
03-21-2010, 04:18 PM
im a huge Tebow fan, but if someone drafts him in the 1st round. Wow. Maybe late late 1st, but still

Halsey
03-21-2010, 04:25 PM
People tend to forget something about Tebow: He was a truely dominant player at times in college and often against top tier competition. He dominated Gerald McCoy and the Sooners 14 months ago. In his last game he just toyed with Cincinnati.People should be careful about doubting him.

keylime_5
03-21-2010, 04:27 PM
considering most teams put a third round grade on the guy I can't imagine him going any where near the top 10 as was suggested before. He will get drafted in the early second most likely, and could sneak into the late first by a team trying to ensure getting him, but taking him that high would be a tremendous reach.

ThePudge
03-21-2010, 05:07 PM
People tend to forget something about Tebow: He was a truely dominant player at times in college and often against top tier competition. He dominated Gerald McCoy and the Sooners 14 months ago. In his last game he just toyed with Cincinnati.People should be careful about doubting him.

Danny Wuerfell was absolutely dominant in college as well against elite competition. His game didn't translate to the NFL. That's the concern most have about Tebow. No one is questioning what he did in college, he was perhaps the most dominant college Quarterback in the SEC in a couple decades. That doesn't say a thing about him as an NFL player. You're still going to have huge questions about his velocity on intermediate routes, his ability to read a defense, and most of all that throwing motion/delivery. Tebow's not some rocket scientist either, he's going to need time to ingest an NFL system. I think his footwork will be fine and playing under center won't take long for him to become accustomed to.

I think he's a guy with a lot of potential who's going to help a franchise in one way or another, but you've got to realize there is A LOT that can cause very reasonable doubts about his ability to become a good NFL Quarterback. He's going to make a franchise happy in the ticket office & he brings a potential future at the QB position, but there's very viable reasons that people doubt his NFL success.

Ultimately, Early 2nd Round (Seattle/Cleveland/Washington/Jacksonville) is what I'd expect though it wouldn't shock me to see a team like Buffalo trade back up into the Late 1st to get him.

Halsey
03-22-2010, 07:43 AM
Danny Wuerfell was absolutely dominant in college as well against elite competition.

Danny Wuerfell will have as much to do with Tim Tebow's career as Joe Montana will with Jimmy Clausen's. Going to the same school means nothing other than they went to the same school. I'm not going to ignore what Tim Tebow did on the field because of what some other player from the same school did in the NFL. I prefer to take game-day performance into account.

Addict
03-22-2010, 08:02 AM
Danny Wuerfell will have as much to do with Tim Tebow's career as Joe Montana will with Jimmy Clausen's. Going to the same school means nothing other than they went to the same school. I'm not going to ignore what Tim Tebow did on the field because of what some other player from the same school did in the NFL. I prefer to take game-day performance into account.

the Tebow-Wuerfell comparison isn't as far-fetched as you pretend it is, they're more than just 'schoolmates'

Halsey
03-22-2010, 08:09 AM
I choose to judge players as individuals. If you want to judge players based on what a player from a different decade and coaching staff did, be my guest. We'll just have to disagree on that one.

Addict
03-22-2010, 08:16 AM
I choose to judge players as individuals. If you want to judge players based on what a player from a different decade and coaching staff did, be my guest. We'll just have to disagree on that one.

well I wasn't saying they're the same, or that Tebow is doomed, but they're in similar situations with being in a non-pro style offsense, dominating on a collegiate level and having a playing style that is suspect in terms of being effective in the NFL. Yes they're different people but there's similarities there.

LonghornsLegend
03-22-2010, 09:17 AM
Danny Wuerfell will have as much to do with Tim Tebow's career as Joe Montana will with Jimmy Clausen's. Going to the same school means nothing other than they went to the same school. I'm not going to ignore what Tim Tebow did on the field because of what some other player from the same school did in the NFL. I prefer to take game-day performance into account.

What does what Tebow did in College have to do with how good of an NFL player he'll be? I don't see why bringing that up has anything to not doubting him as an NFL player because he was so good in College.


The point was that Wuerfell was dominant in college also, not that him and Tebow are exactly similiar as prospects.

yourfavestoner
03-22-2010, 11:04 AM
well I wasn't saying they're the same, or that Tebow is doomed, but they're in similar situations with being in a non-pro style offsense, dominating on a collegiate level and having a playing style that is suspect in terms of being effective in the NFL. Yes they're different people but there's similarities there.


No, not really. Literally, the only similarities they have is that they're hardcore Christians and went to the same school. They were both spread quarterbacks, but their versions of the spread were so inherently different that they aren't even comparable. Truth be told, they're about as opposite as you can get.

Wuerrfel was undersized with a weak arm. He was totally and completely a rythm passer who operated Spurrier's spread offense like a surgeon.

Saying that they're comparable because they dominated at the college level and their playing styles don't translate to the NFL is like saying Vince Young and Graham Harrell are comparable players.

Addict
03-22-2010, 11:09 AM
No, not really. Literally, the only similarities they have is that they're hardcore Christians and went to the same school. They were both spread quarterbacks, but their versions of the spread were so inherently different that they aren't even comparable. Truth be told, they're about as opposite as you can get.

Wuerrfel was undersized with a weak arm. He was totally and completely a rythm passer who operated Spurrier's spread offense like a surgeon.

Saying that they're comparable because they dominated at the college level and their playing styles don't translate to the NFL is like saying Vince Young and Graham Harrell are comparable players.

well... now that you mention it...

But seriously I've only read about Wuerfell so I'll trust you judgement on this. Consider my post non-existent.