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golota
03-17-2010, 03:53 PM
I cant understand how Spikes can be rated a first rounder.

He cant even break 5 seconds in the 40. How can he be so slow and still be an NFL LB??

Please dont say he has game speed. If you are slow you are slow.

Not only that but the guy seems to have some Major character concerns.

K Train
03-17-2010, 03:56 PM
he poked a guy in the eye, ive seen worse things happen at the bottom of a pile. not really "major" character concerns.

hes not a first rounder, 34 MLBs rarely are, the gap between him and mcclain is still minimal....thats just the way it is for these kinds of LBs, they can be selected 2 rounds apart but really not be that different.

ill take him on the steelers in the second all day

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 03:58 PM
I don't think anybody has said Spikes will be a first rounder since around January.

I've said I believe that there's no difference between him and McClain. The 40 changes that slightly, but I still think McClain is massively overrated. And when I say that, I don't think he's a bad player. He's going to make a very good pro, but he'll be an unspectacular guy playing a position with very little value.

Look at Seattle and Green Bay. They're not likely to ever see the return on their investments of AJ Hawk and Aaron Curry. Neither one of them is a bad player by any means, they're just not worth the spot they were picked at. They never were.

golota
03-17-2010, 04:05 PM
I dont think he is a fourth rounder. Some mocks still have him in the first round.

Most LBs who cant break 5 seconds in the 40 are not drafted.

ALP1987
03-17-2010, 04:05 PM
Wow i just read that he ran a 5.02 and 5.08 40 yard dash. That's just an awful time. He really hurt his stock with this.

K Train
03-17-2010, 04:10 PM
I don't think anybody has said Spikes will be a first rounder since around January.

I've said I believe that there's no difference between him and McClain. The 40 changes that slightly, but I still think McClain is massively overrated. And when I say that, I don't think he's a bad player. He's going to make a very good pro, but he'll be an unspectacular guy playing a position with very little value.

Look at Seattle and Green Bay. They're not likely to ever see the return on their investments of AJ Hawk and Aaron Curry. Neither one of them is a bad player by any means, they're just not worth the spot they were picked at. They never were.

this.

maualuga, poz, lauranitis, ryans are all great players imo...and they were selected where the value lies for MLBs, the second round.

mcclain is a great player, i think he'll be compared to mayo, who is also a great player but unless its patrick willis or ray lewis you just dont take MLBs that high, theres no value. the curry and hawk name drops are perfect....both good players, but were there better ones on the board with greater position value? yes

Jimmy
03-17-2010, 04:12 PM
Brandon Spikes is a player. I don't care what anyone else says. This is coming from a guy who hates anyone for the most part on the UF squad. Zach Thomas couldn't crack 5 seconds either. While he is slow, and that is undeniable at this point, he can still play. He should go at least in the 3rd round, and who ever is taking him is getting a great value pick.

Prowler
03-17-2010, 04:14 PM
for the record he was trying to rub spit into his eye, not gouge it. i'd put his stock slightly below demeco ryans, who turned out fine. i'd take him in the middle of the second round.

CC.SD
03-17-2010, 04:14 PM
Most of the people in the know have not had Spikes in the 1st for a while now.

The success of Brandon Siler, coming out of the exact system as a slow LB probably will do Spikes some good in FO's eyes. And yeah, he is of course a gamer, and probably will be just as productive as all these Big Name linebackers that plummet inevitably are.

K Train
03-17-2010, 04:15 PM
^ yeah like around 18 when the steelers pick in the second lol

vidae
03-17-2010, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't touch him until the third but I'm not a fan of Spikes and probably never will be.

golota
03-17-2010, 04:15 PM
With the lack of speed he wont be any good in pass coverage. And will only be able to stop the run if the RB comes straight at him. He wont catch guys any other way.

Jimmy
03-17-2010, 04:25 PM
With the lack of speed he wont be any good in pass coverage. And will only be able to stop the run if the RB comes straight at him. He wont catch guys any other way.

explain to me how zach thomas (slow) was good in pass coverage? you don't have to be fast, it's just a hindrance to be slow.

golota
03-17-2010, 04:32 PM
explain to me how zach thomas (slow) was good in pass coverage? you don't have to be fast, it's just a hindrance to be slow.

Sure try putting Spikes on Vernon Davis , Antonio Gates or Dallas Clark. See if he can stay with them.

K Train
03-17-2010, 04:34 PM
hes a MLB that will get picks based on him having good instincts and playmaking ability more so than him being lock down in coverage.

Prowler
03-17-2010, 04:36 PM
as with every single player in this draft, he's only going to be as good as his scheme/support.

CLong4Heisman
03-17-2010, 04:36 PM
Sure try putting Spikes on Vernon Davis , Antonio Gates or Dallas Clark. See if he can stay with them.

There are good defensive backs that can't guard those guys.

K Train
03-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Sure try putting Spikes on Vernon Davis , Antonio Gates or Dallas Clark. See if he can stay with them.

i wouldnt even want timmons on them and he can run stride for stride with santonio holmes

FUNBUNCHER
03-17-2010, 04:45 PM
Who remembers Miami Dolphins OLB/ILB Bryan Cox??
Same profile, 6'4, 250#, couldn't break 5 flat in the 40 and yet played for 12 years in the NFL.
Pro bowler and all pro.
When I look at Spikes this is the player he most reminds me of. Inside, he should be a given. And he's a better pass rusher than most folks give him credit.

I see Spikes having a long career wherever he goes, his 40 time doesn't totally do him justice when evaluating his impact on a football field.

golota
03-17-2010, 05:10 PM
Who remembers Miami Dolphins OLB/ILB Bryan Cox??
Same profile, 6'4, 250#, couldn't break 5 flat in the 40 and yet played for 12 years in the NFL.
Pro bowler and all pro.
When I look at Spikes this is the player he most reminds me of. Inside, he should be a given. And he's a better pass rusher than most folks give him credit.

I see Spikes having a long career wherever he goes, his 40 time doesn't totally do him justice when evaluating his impact on a football field.

OK the guy is slow as a turtle but most people still think he is a player. So were Cox and Thomas and were not real fast guys. But Thomas was a fifth rounder because of his height and speed. Spikes shouldnt merit anything higher than fifth round in view of his lack of speed and character, IMO.

OaklandRaider56
03-17-2010, 05:12 PM
He ran in a 40 yard straight line two tenths of a second slower than McClain. So obviously he sucks. This is stupid.

B-Dawk
03-17-2010, 05:14 PM
all the 40 time does is solidify the slide he will take, he's a 2-3 round prospect, but he will be a good/solid player for who ever drafts him

golota
03-17-2010, 05:23 PM
He ran in a 40 yard straight line two tenths of a second slower than McClain. So obviously he sucks. This is stupid.

Every tenth represents about a step in speed. Big difference in coverage and catchiing RBs. a 5.1 at his pro day means he would have likely ran a 5.3 or 5.4 at the combine.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 05:32 PM
OK the guy is slow as a turtle but most people still think he is a player. So were Cox and Thomas and were not real fast guys. But Thomas was a fifth rounder because of his height and speed. Spikes shouldnt merit anything higher than fifth round in view of his lack of speed and character, IMO.

Why the **** is the eye poke being classified as a character concern? This guy has done absolutely nothing off the field to warrant being slapped with the character concern label.

K Train
03-17-2010, 05:33 PM
Every tenth represents about a step in speed. Big difference in coverage and catchiing RBs. a 5.1 at his pro day means he would have likely ran a 5.3 or 5.4 at the combine.
not true....maybe true for ohio state players, but not florida on the grass

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 05:33 PM
On wet grass, no less.

RedVision
03-17-2010, 05:38 PM
Last good College LB I remember running this slow was Kai Parham from Virginia. That didn't work out so well for him, was undrafted, spent some time with the Cowboys, out of the league.

golota
03-17-2010, 05:49 PM
not true....maybe true for ohio state players, but not florida on the grass

Face it, the guy is a turtle. Doesnt rate any better than fifth rounder.

Addict
03-17-2010, 05:54 PM
Face it, the guy is a turtle. Doesnt rate any better than fifth rounder.

you need to remind yourself that a forty is a tangible. If Spikes has shown his skill in the SEC over a few seasons, playing at a high level, not to mention even people on these boards predicting little more than a 4.9 out of him, 5.00 isn't all that big a surprise. Spikes wasn't isn't nor will he be a player defined by his forty yard dash.

Rosebud
03-17-2010, 06:17 PM
For the dude talking about Spikes going late rounds/undrafted, have you even seen him play? Yeah this 40 hurts his stock and he poked some guy in the eye, oh noezz, but the kid is a gamer, he's a force against the run, a very good pass rusher and has great instincts. He won't be able to cover elite TEs but how many MLB or ILB are even asked to play man? Spikes is going to be a steal for some team and will help some team turn their run D around super fast.

Addict
03-17-2010, 06:22 PM
For the dude talking about Spikes going late rounds/undrafted, have you even seen him play? Yeah this 40 hurts his stock and he poked some guy in the eye, oh noezz, but the kid is a gamer, he's a force against the run, a very good pass rusher and has great instincts. He won't be able to cover elite TEs but how many MLB or ILB are even asked to play man? Spikes is going to be a steal for some team and will help some team turn their run D around super fast.

if he falls to the lions in round three I will piss myself.

Jimmy
03-17-2010, 06:22 PM
anyone who says spikes lacks character definitively just because he gouged somebody's eye should be banned from this forum. seriously. we all make mistakes. the guys who hold up mini-marts and punch their pregnant girlfriends in the ovaries can be separated from guys that clearly have an intense passion for the game. spikes is an absolute nut, he will do anything and anything to win and to pick his teammates up, and he just happened to get a lot carried away. do you (golota) even know what goes on at the bottom of a pile? answer: the exact same **** spikes did there. i can promise you, on several occasions that guys in the nfl working with United way and that are union reps and that are respected and esteemed for the work that they have done with the community, guys who are the loyal fathers and husbands of the nfl have done **** like that. it's part of the damn sport. inexcusable none the less, but you can't label the guy's character as bad because of that. he seeminglyhas the passion of a ray lewis type. and lewis killed a *****.

yourfavestoner
03-17-2010, 06:23 PM
Exactly.

TBH, I'm sick of hearing the term "character concerns." It's becoming just another stupid sports cliche that can be applied to just about anybody, yet really doesn't mean anything.

Addict
03-17-2010, 06:25 PM
anyone who says spikes lacks character definitively just because he gouged somebody's eye should be banned from this forum. seriously. we all make mistakes. the guys who hold up mini-marts and punch their pregnant girlfriends in the ovaries can be separated from guys that clearly have an intense passion for the game. spikes is an absolute nut, he will do anything and anything to win and to pick his teammates up, and he just happened to get a lot carried away. do you (golota) even know what goes on at the bottom of a pile? answer: the exact same **** spikes did there. i can promise you, on several occasions that guys in the nfl working with United way and that are union reps and that are respected and esteemed have done **** like that. it's part of the damn sport. inexcusable none the less, but you can't label the guy's character as bad because of that. he seeminglyhas the passion of a ray lewis type. and lewis killed a *****.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here? Killing a person doesn't make you a bad person?

YAYareaRB
03-17-2010, 06:28 PM
I think the 40 time importance is being blown way out of proportion. A player can be a beast for 3 years and run a slow 40 and become the worst player to enter the draft. Completely disregarding what he did in College even though with his 5 second 40 time he was being a beast on one of the best college football teams in the land.

Jimmy
03-17-2010, 06:29 PM
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here? Killing a person doesn't make you a bad person?

if people can look at ray-ray and not really be turned off so to speak, lets give spikes a break. in retrospect it's a bad comparison, but i still think spikes needs to be let off the hook.

brasho
03-17-2010, 06:43 PM
Last good College LB I remember running this slow was Kai Parham from Virginia. That didn't work out so well for him, was undrafted, spent some time with the Cowboys, out of the league.

That was the exact same guy I was thinking and I may have even compared the two BEFORE the pro day... I think Parham was a bit better collegiate player, too.

Addict
03-17-2010, 06:44 PM
if people can look at ray-ray and not really be turned off so to speak, lets give spikes a break. in retrospect it's a bad comparison, but i still think spikes needs to be let off the hook.

right. In that case you're right. But you understand my confusion :)

Splat
03-17-2010, 07:21 PM
LOL @ people saying he will be there in the 4th or 5th round...

K Train
03-17-2010, 07:29 PM
LOL @ people saying he will be there in the 4th or 5th round...

i mean its possible, but i really really doubt it.

the thing is i cant see him falling out of relevance like ali highsmith did when he ran a 5.0something 40....spikes is a 34 MLB, highsmiths game was speed and sideline to sideline range that a 43 needs and he didnt run good enough. i personally think spikes is fast enough to be a 34MLB and a second round pick.

its swirling around that hes been dealing with injuries and didnt know how much he was gonna work out. i think he will run for teams again in april-ish and raise his stock back up

Longclaw
03-17-2010, 08:20 PM
I think NE will try to get him. Spikes and Mayo inside will be perfect.

holt_bruce81
03-17-2010, 10:24 PM
LOL @ people saying he will be there in the 4th or 5th round...

He'll even be there in the 6th.

GoRavens
03-17-2010, 10:42 PM
No way Spikes falls to round 5.
Round 4? Maybe.
Round 3? Most likely, yes.
Either way, Spikes is an animal. His game isn't about 40 time, it's about aggression, power, and good tackling.

holt_bruce81
03-17-2010, 10:56 PM
No way Spikes falls to round 5.
Round 4? Maybe.
Round 3? Most likely, yes.
Either way, Spikes is an animal. His game isn't about 40 time, it's about aggression, power, and good tackling.

Rufus Alexander, Earl Everett, Ali Highsmith, Brandon Siler, Kai Parham......

GoRavens
03-17-2010, 11:00 PM
wow i forgot all about earl everett

PossibleCabbage
03-17-2010, 11:04 PM
I think the 40 time importance is being blown way out of proportion. A player can be a beast for 3 years and run a slow 40 and become the worst player to enter the draft. Completely disregarding what he did in College even though with his 5 second 40 time he was being a beast on one of the best college football teams in the land.

Oh, you can be a beast as a player with a mediocre 40, don't get me wrong. But where Spikes 40 time is really going to hurt him is that with a 5+ second 40, he's going to be a 2 down linebacker in this league. He can be an absolute dominator on first and second down, but when you go to an obvious passing situation, they're going to take him off the field for someone who can run with NFL TEs.

So sure, he can be a great contributor for whoever gets him, but teams generally prefer not to spend premium picks on two down players (notable exception: 3-4 NTs). The difference between ILBs who go high in the draft (Hawk, Willis, Mayo, Curry) and guys who slip (Ryans, Posluszny, Connor, Maualuga) is that teams expect the former to be able to stay on the field all the time, and the latter teams expect to have to find some other guy to replace him in certain situations. Whether or not that's reasonable, you have to admit that a LB who can stay on the field all the time generally does a better job filling a need at LB.

wogitalia
03-18-2010, 12:09 AM
I'd be far more interested in Spikes 10 and 20 yard splits as those are what I look at and consider important for a linebacker.

If a linebacker is running 40 yards on a play then something got ****** up bigtime and he is chasing a guy that even with 4.5 speed he probably isn't going to catch. Simple fact is that as a MLB in either a 3-4 or 4-3 his job wont involve him being expected to cover more than 25 yards on a play and if they can cover more that's a bonus.

Spikes is a guy who is an ideal fit in a 3-4 and still a solid fit in most 4-3 schemes(basically any that are zone based on the back 7). His flaw is going to be against the pass if he is expected to play man and really any team that takes him knowing that and then does it is at fault.

Spikes will fall and land in a solid team where he will help them immediately. Still think he is a better prospect than Lauriniatis was last year because he plays closer to the line and James did fine. Spikes is going to give a team the same thing that McClain does at about a rounds discount.


you have to admit that a LB who can stay on the field all the time generally does a better job filling a need at LB.

Sort of. I'd rather have an exceptional guy out there for 2 downs and depth for the 3rd than the average guy for all 3. Worst case of Spikes being that 2 down guy is a very good run player, the kind who forces those long yardage situations. I'd love a LB I can count on to need to come off on 3rd down because it means you should be winning the game. Plus, Spikes has shown enough ability as a blitzer to have plenty of value on passing plays.

Rosebud
03-18-2010, 12:53 AM
Rufus Alexander, Earl Everett, Ali Highsmith, Brandon Siler, Kai Parham......

Spikes is a better college player than all of those guys. Far more powerful, a better pass rusher and leader.

Oh, you can be a beast as a player with a mediocre 40, don't get me wrong. But where Spikes 40 time is really going to hurt him is that with a 5+ second 40, he's going to be a 2 down linebacker in this league. He can be an absolute dominator on first and second down, but when you go to an obvious passing situation, they're going to take him off the field for someone who can run with NFL TEs.

So sure, he can be a great contributor for whoever gets him, but teams generally prefer not to spend premium picks on two down players (notable exception: 3-4 NTs). The difference between ILBs who go high in the draft (Hawk, Willis, Mayo, Curry) and guys who slip (Ryans, Posluszny, Connor, Maualuga) is that teams expect the former to be able to stay on the field all the time, and the latter teams expect to have to find some other guy to replace him in certain situations. Whether or not that's reasonable, you have to admit that a LB who can stay on the field all the time generally does a better job filling a need at LB.

So teams are going to take him off the field when they go into the nickel, that was pretty obvious well before this. He's still going to be a beast against the run and as a pass rusher, which frankly could negate his lack of coverage ability since teams will be able to sic him after the quarterback and use their OLBs for coverage. As for the guys you talk about slipping all of those guys went in the area Spikes was already being projected to, 2nd/early 3rd. No one's suggesting you spend a 1st rounder on spikes, I mean why would you when he'll be around in the second?

holt_bruce81
03-18-2010, 03:05 AM
Spikes is a better college player than all of those guys. Far more powerful, a better pass rusher and leader.?

That doesn't mean anything. All those guys were projected as 1st day picks (rounds 1-3) and neither of them went before Round 6. (2 went undrafted)

Rosebud
03-18-2010, 03:13 AM
That doesn't mean anything. All those guys were projected as 1st day picks (rounds 1-3) and neither of them went before Round 6. (2 went undrafted)

I don't think this is what you meant to say. If you're going to disregard the things that make one prospect better than others at his position who ran a similar time in the 40 yard dash then you really shouldn't be posting on this site. That's just silly. You must've meant something else.

Monomach
03-18-2010, 04:38 AM
Sure try putting Spikes on Vernon Davis , Antonio Gates or Dallas Clark. See if he can stay with them.

It took Dick Butkus about 3 days to run the forty. He got by just fine.

If Spikes is there when the Bears have their first pick, I'll cream my panties and hope they draft him.

SUP
03-18-2010, 08:59 AM
That doesn't mean anything. All those guys were projected as 1st day picks (rounds 1-3) and neither of them went before Round 6. (2 went undrafted)


Earl Everett was NEVER projected as anything above a 7th and most said UDFA....

LizardState
03-18-2010, 11:33 AM
Why the **** is the eye poke being classified as a character concern? This guy has done absolutely nothing off the field to warrant being slapped with the character concern label.

It's illegal for a ******* good reason, helllll-ooooo.

It's OK to be a Spikes fan, but defending that blatant illegal behavior in more than one thread -- you've got to stop smoking so early in the morning.

rascal
03-18-2010, 11:35 AM
posted this in the broncos thread, but I'll repeat it here.

I think 3-4 teams to take a serious look at drafting Jamar Chaney in the third or fourth round. He has had some injuries but I don't think it's indicative of future problems. He kicked ass in the senior bowl, put up solid numbers at Miss St, and showed excellent mobility, explosiveness, and strength in the combine.

LonghornsLegend
03-18-2010, 11:38 AM
Every tenth represents about a step in speed. Big difference in coverage and catchiing RBs. a 5.1 at his pro day means he would have likely ran a 5.3 or 5.4 at the combine.

So the speed guys who ran a 4.3 at the combine are going to run a 4 flat at their pro day then right? Or wait, it doesn't work for everyone how you calculated somehow he would be .3 slower at his pro day? Or it just works for him and nobody else? :rolleyes:



I'll take Spikes with the Cowboys 2nd rounder, we need a leader in the middle and a future replacement. We have our athletic/speed guy in Jason Williams from last year who was a burner and a complete athletic freak, Spikes is a thumper. I think they would compliment eachother well so as slow as he may be I'd take him at that point and be happy about it.

ironman4579
03-18-2010, 12:23 PM
I said it in the Florida Pro Day thread, but he could easily go undrafted after that 40. I realize there's a big difference between a slow safety and slow LB, but Earnest Shazor is the first name that comes to mind. I remember Scott having him mocked in the first for awhile. After the ultra slow 40, dropped him to the 3rd. He ended up going undrafted. It is possible for an ultra slow 40 to hurt a guy badly.

yourfavestoner
03-18-2010, 12:33 PM
It's illegal for a ******* good reason, helllll-ooooo.

It's OK to be a Spikes fan, but defending that blatant illegal behavior in more than one thread -- you've got to stop smoking so early in the morning.

I'm not defending his behavior, nor am I saying that it's okay. I'm merely saying that if poking somebody in the eye qualifies you to be labeled as having "character concerns" then more than half the ******* league has a "character concern" problem.

There's a huge difference between character concerns and dirty player. Marvin Harrison was praised for being the classiest guy in the NFL for years and years. Dig a little deeper, though, and you find out that he was establishing himself as a kingpin in his Phildelphia area and, depending who you believe, may or may not have been involved in a shooting.

Rodney Harrison, on the other hand, was long called the league's dirtiest player. Yet, you never heard anything but praise from his teammates and coaches about him.

Just an example, but the line between the two is getting blurred. I said yesterday that "character concern" is just turning into another meaningless media cliche that can be applied to just about anyone.

And I don't blaze till I get off of work dude. ;)

PossibleCabbage
03-18-2010, 12:47 PM
I
Sort of. I'd rather have an exceptional guy out there for 2 downs and depth for the 3rd than the average guy for all 3. Worst case of Spikes being that 2 down guy is a very good run player, the kind who forces those long yardage situations. I'd love a LB I can count on to need to come off on 3rd down because it means you should be winning the game. Plus, Spikes has shown enough ability as a blitzer to have plenty of value on passing plays.

Well, it all comes down to what you've got (and correspondingly what you need). If your LB corps is in shambles, filled with has-been and never-was, and you need anything and everything you probably want to make sure you pick up three down guys, since those guys fill a hole without creating another one. On the other hand, if you've already got an LB who's a glorified SS or all but one of your starting LBs can be trusted to play the run and cover, then absolutely you want the guy who can dominate for two downs and come off in the nickel.

Though, the one problem that makes it difficult to project success for college LBs making the jump to the NFL is that there are a lot of college LBs who have fine careers based on guessing which gap the play is attacking, and getting there before the offense declares which results in TFLs and big plays for the defense. On the other hand, that's not what you want in an NFL backer, since when you guess and guess wrong, that results in big plays for the offense. NFL backers need to be in more of a "read and react" mold, the quicker they can diagnose the play and the quicker they can react to that diagnosis, the better. Possibly it's just a shortcoming of mine, but that seems difficult to do on tape. But, for example, rewind to the 2006 draft. The Iowa Hawkeyes had two linebackers that were simply dominant in college: Chad Greenway and Abdul Hodge. If you actually watched Iowa games, you might think that Hodge was the better backer since he made a lot more plays for the defense. On the other hand, Greenway is currently starting and playing well on one of the NFL's better defenses, and Hodge is currently in spot duty on his second team. Though, NFL scouts apparently got that right since Greenway was a 1st round pick, and Hodge went two rounds later.

touchdownrams
03-18-2010, 02:41 PM
40 times are always overblown. His game tape is very good, the guy can flat play. Everyone who has watched him knew he would struggle getting to the sidelines consistently, but with his instincts he still can make some plays out there.

The funny thing is to me are the ones saying he's just a 2 down player. He doesn't have to just be used in coverage on 3rd down. He has shown he has the ability to rush the QB from the middle and lined up outside of the DE. With his physical hitting style I would use every opportunity I could to send him to destroy the opposing teams QB.

Spikes is going to end up as a huge steal for someone.

Shane P. Hallam
03-18-2010, 02:44 PM
40 times are always overblown. His game tape is very good, the guy can flat play. Everyone who has watched him knew he would struggle getting to the sidelines consistently, but with his instincts he still can make some plays out there.

The funny thing is to me are the ones saying he's just a 2 down player. He doesn't have to just be used in coverage on 3rd down. He has shown he has the ability to rush the QB from the middle and lined up outside of the DE. With his physical hitting style I would use every opportunity I could to send him to destroy the opposing teams QB.

Spikes is going to end up as a huge steal for someone.

He'll be productive at the next level, but he just can't do sideline to sideline. It really limits him. I currently don't have him going in the 2nd round.

Complex
03-18-2010, 02:48 PM
It took Dick Butkus about 3 days to run the forty. He got by just fine.

If Spikes is there when the Bears have their first pick, I'll cream my panties and hope they draft him.

Dick Butkus didn't go against Speed TEs like Veron Davis. Back then it was a run the ball league throw it 25 or less times.

PossibleCabbage
03-18-2010, 03:09 PM
If Spikes is there when the Bears have their first pick, I'll cream my panties and hope they draft him.

Wouldn't playing in the Tampa 2 be the worst possible fit for Spikes? Since the Tampa 2 really relies on having faster than average linebackers who can cover a lot of space?

golota
03-18-2010, 03:09 PM
Dick Butkus didn't go against Speed TEs like Veron Davis. Back then it was a run the ball league throw it 25 or less times.

Dick did play against a few speedsters on my Lions. The way he handled them was to punish the heck out of them once he caught up to them.

For example, he once knocked TE Charlie Sanders completely OUT with a block after an interception. He also nailed RB Altie Taylor AFTER Taylor had run out of bounds to get away from him.

Mr. Goosemahn
03-18-2010, 03:21 PM
I think his 40 time just means that 4-3 teams will no longer consider him and that 3-4 will consider taking him later on, but not that much.

Chargers, Patriots, Cowboys, Packers, Steelers, Dolphins, and others would benefit from having someone like him. Any one of those teams could take him in the second, especially the Patriots, with their multiple picks.

Mayo and Spikes could be nasty.

I hope the Steelers take him, Timmons and Spikes would be great complements.

And while 40 times do break some players, Spikes had an ultra-mega productive college career. Maualuga fell to the beginning of the second with a 4.88 I think (close to 4.9) 40 after being a mid-late first, so I don't think Spikes falls more than the third round. But who knows.

Babylon
03-18-2010, 03:25 PM
Dick did play against a few speedsters on my Lions. The way he handled them was to punish the heck out of them once he caught up to them.

For example, he once knocked TE Charlie Sanders completely OUT with a block after an interception. He also nailed RB Altie Taylor AFTER Taylor had run out of bounds to get away from him.

Butkus could run sideline to sideline with the best of them, not sure what his 40 time would have been back then but obviously it's better than Spikes.

descendency
03-18-2010, 04:13 PM
He'll succeed because he'll never run 40 yards on one play when it will matter. I never saw his 10 or 20 yard splits, but those are the ones that will matter. His burst off the snap and his recognition (as well as his preparation and positioning) will matter more than his slow 40 time.

edit: I'd still love Brandon Graham, Damian Williams, Brandon Spikes, and Alex Carrington as the Patriots first 4 picks. I realize they need a nickel DB and a TE.

Monomach
03-18-2010, 04:18 PM
Dick Butkus didn't go against Speed TEs like Veron Davis. Back then it was a run the ball league throw it 25 or less times.

This is untrue. See: Jackie Smith, Mike Ditka, etc.

Besides, MLBs don't get 22 INTs in 9 years by being nothing but run stoppers. He could get around because he always took the right angle and he had great instincts...kind of like Spikes. His straight line speed, however, was laughable.

...and your assertion that it was a run-only league is simply false. This was gone over in detail in a HOF thread where people tried to pretend that Joe Namath throwing for 4k yards in 1967 was ZOMGAMZING. Long story short: 3500+ yard passers from the 40s to today have not been super rare (unless you're the Bears).

Wouldn't playing in the Tampa 2 be the worst possible fit for Spikes? Since the Tampa 2 really relies on having faster than average linebackers who can cover a lot of space?

Lovie Smith's not going to be here forever. In fact, probably not after next year.

PossibleCabbage
03-18-2010, 06:21 PM
Lovie Smith's not going to be here forever. In fact, probably not after next year.

But you have to ask yourself, why would a coach and a GM who are very much on the hot seat, spend their first draft pick on a player that clearly doesn't fit the system in place and doesn't fill a position of need?

UncleHulka
03-18-2010, 11:20 PM
he poked a guy in the eye, ive seen worse things happen at the bottom of a pile. not really "major" character concerns.

hes not a first rounder, 34 MLBs rarely are, the gap between him and mcclain is still minimal....thats just the way it is for these kinds of LBs, they can be selected 2 rounds apart but really not be that different.

ill take him on the steelers in the second all day

Regarding the eye gouging... talk to some big college or NFL players sometime and they'll laugh at you about that. I've heard stories much Much worse. Fingers in orifices you'd rather never be violated and such. You don't want to be on the bottom of a pile. Just draft Spikes in the second... a dependable bailbondsman in the seventh... ??? ... profit.

SKim172
03-19-2010, 06:01 PM
Here's the way I look at it: whether he's a diamond in the rough or gets crapped out of the league in a year, it'll have absolutely nothing to do with his forty time.

And whoever said a tenth of a second is a step - not even close. It takes you 3-4 tenths of a second to blink. I can blink faster than you run.

Nard_Dog
03-20-2010, 11:35 AM
The good news for him is that he won't be a Raider. :D

This does hurt his stock a lot. He'll probably go in the 3rd-4th range.