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yourfavestoner
03-19-2010, 04:14 PM
Scott has him mocked to the Vikings at pick 30 right now.

He really started to put it together under some pro style coaching at Tennessee. Anybody think there's a team falls in love with him and takes him in the upper half of the first round? What's the word on his stock right now, rising/falling/steady?

stephenson86
03-19-2010, 04:17 PM
Tennessee showed interest in him at the senior bowl

J255979-11nine
03-19-2010, 04:21 PM
With Miami's current nose tackle situation, I am willing to believe they are extremely interested in Dan Williams at #12.

yourfavestoner
03-19-2010, 04:24 PM
With Miami's current nose tackle situation, I am willing to believe they are extremely interested in Dan Williams at #12.

That's around the range that I'm thinking. If history has taught us anything, it's that teams will reach on big guys with potential early.

GoRavens
03-19-2010, 04:24 PM
Miami seems to be he's #1 landing spot at this point.

J255979-11nine
03-19-2010, 04:28 PM
That's around the range that I'm thinking. If history has taught us anything, it's that teams will reach on big guys with potential early.

And with the depth at 3-4 OLB this year they could easily wait until the second round to get an edge rusher. I am just curious if Parcells will fall in love with Mount Cody and select him instead of Williams.

prock
03-19-2010, 05:02 PM
No, let him fall to the Vikes please.

diabsoule
03-19-2010, 05:03 PM
Falling to the Saints pick in the first is my dream scenario. I really love this dude.... /mancrush

CC.SD
03-19-2010, 05:22 PM
I don't see him making it to 30. Dallas would snatch him if he gets into the late 20s at all.

OaklandRaider56
03-19-2010, 05:58 PM
Oakland at 8 is a slight possibility. It's a reach but he fills a need playing NT in a 4-3 and is probably better for what we need than a guy like Gerald McCoy.

CC.SD
03-19-2010, 06:02 PM
Oakland at 8 is a slight possibility. It's a reach but he fills a need playing NT in a 4-3 and is probably better for what we need than a guy like Gerald McCoy.

Not that this opportunity will arise, but no way would anyone, not even Davis, pass on McCoy for Williams. You would basically need to have a franchise 3 tech already in place and nobody in the top 5 or so has that.

LonghornsLegend
03-19-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't see him making it to 30. Dallas would snatch him if he gets into the late 20s at all.

And play him where? DE? Were not going to spend a 1st on a NT when Ratliff is an all-pro in our 1 gap scheme. Most Cowboy fans would agree with you in that it be nice to have a guy like him, slide Ratliff over etc etc, it's just not a realistic option and were not even in the market for a NT other then a back-up to give him a breather.


I'm pretty sure there are lots of other positions rated higher, were just not going to draft that big huge NT everyone thinks you need to have.


I think we would have shown some slight interest in Jamal Williams if we felt the need to upgrade at all, were looking at DE's quite a bit, not a starter at NT.

OaklandRaider56
03-19-2010, 06:13 PM
Not that this opportunity will arise, but no way would anyone, not even Davis, pass on McCoy for Williams. You would basically need to have a franchise 3 tech already in place and nobody in the top 5 or so has that.

Oh hell no. I'm not saying they should (if he was avalible) pass on McCoy for Dan Williams. But for what we desperatley need to stop the run, Williams fits the bill better than a player like McCoy, but obviously McCoys impact would be much more effective in the passing game.

CC.SD
03-19-2010, 06:16 PM
And play him where? DE? Were not going to spend a 1st on a NT when Ratliff is an all-pro in our 1 gap scheme. Most Cowboy fans would agree with you in that it be nice to have a guy like him, slide Ratliff over etc etc, it's just not a realistic option and were not even in the market for a NT other then a back-up to give him a breather.


I'm pretty sure there are lots of other positions rated higher, were just not going to draft that big huge NT everyone thinks you need to have.


I think we would have shown some slight interest in Jamal Williams if we felt the need to upgrade at all, were looking at DE's quite a bit, not a starter at NT.

If you want an upgrade at DE, who better than Ratliff? :D Understandable opinion though. Wade Phillips certainly knows how to run a successful two gap 3-4, I always thought the 1 gap came about more as a necessity than anything else.

Lots of teams didn't show interest in Jamal, he is going to be 34 and is not exactly a sure commodity.

Picking Williams at 27 would be a terrific value, but of course there's always going to be other directions a team could take.

Supporting Caste
03-19-2010, 06:20 PM
I think Miami will be more focused on OLB than DT.

and I think Williams might go to Denver anyway. Yes, even with Jamal Williams already there.

bitonti
03-19-2010, 06:33 PM
have nothing against DW, who is a solid player in his own right

but 5 years from now

we might look back at this draft and wonder "how did Dan Williams go higher than Terrence Cody?"

A Perfect Score
03-19-2010, 06:38 PM
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see him go to the Bills at 9 or the Broncos at 10.

LonghornsLegend
03-19-2010, 06:55 PM
If you want an upgrade at DE, who better than Ratliff? :D Understandable opinion though. Wade Phillips certainly knows how to run a successful two gap 3-4, I always thought the 1 gap came about more as a necessity than anything else.

Lots of teams didn't show interest in Jamal, he is going to be 34 and is not exactly a sure commodity.

Picking Williams at 27 would be a terrific value, but of course there's always going to be other directions a team could take.



It's just we go through this every year in the Cowboys draft thread, majority of us would absolutely love a guy like Dan Williams and kick Ratliff out to DE full time. But Wade doesn't want to do it, Ratliff doesn't want to move, Jerry wants him there, so whatever, it's just something that'll never change. Then again the defense has at times played well with him there, and we can get pretty creative with what we run because of how quick he is.


Still, teams who scout us well always seem to know on crucial 3rd and short times to double Ratliff and push him completely out of the play. I guess he prefers his DE to command double teams at times, and he does alot of things with Ratliff at nose that other NT's wouldn't be able to do like drop him into coverage and bring blitzes from alot of other places.

RWills
03-19-2010, 07:09 PM
How about this.....as high as #5 to KC.....You saw how demanding NT's were in FA, and if you have a 3-4, NT is the most important piece. They did it last year with Tyson Jackson. Other teams would be Buffalo(No NT on roster), Denver(Don't know if Jamal can even play anymore and Bannon is not a 16-game 3 down NT), Miami(Ferguson out, Bill loves the big boys), Tennessee(they struck gold picking a DT from Tenn.)

BlueBandit24
03-19-2010, 07:40 PM
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see him go to the Bills at 9 or the Broncos at 10.

I've seen him mocked to the Bills a few times as the heart of their new 3-4 defense. Given that his senior season was fantastic and his off-season has simply built on that momentum, I expect him to go in that 9-12 range with those 3-4 teams in the market for a nose.

thebow305
03-19-2010, 08:02 PM
I know Miami seems like the most logical landing spot right now, but it's actually not, if you follow Parcells draft history. He rarely, if ever takes NT's that high. He likes to find late round guys to contribute (ala Jason Ferguson). I could see someone like Jeff Owens being a target in the 4th round instead. He's a perfect fit for us there.

And with Kyle Williams as the only start Buffalo has as a NT right now, I could see them taking him earlier than expected at #9. Especially if guys like Bulaga and Okung are off the board.

Mr.Regular
03-19-2010, 08:05 PM
His ceiling is Buffalo and his floor is probably Minnesota. I have him at New York (Giants) currently. I think a big body like him would do wonders for that defense by freeing up some of their play makers on the line.

princefielder28
03-19-2010, 08:05 PM
I know Miami seems like the most logical landing spot right now, but it's actually not, if you follow Parcells draft history. He rarely, if ever takes NT's that high. He likes to find late round guys to contribute (ala Jason Ferguson). I could see someone like Jeff Owens being a target in the 4th round instead. He's a perfect fit for us there.

And with Kyle Williams as the only start Buffalo has as a NT right now, I could see them taking him earlier than expected at #9. Especially if guys like Bulaga and Okung are off the board.

It's pretty good logic with that first part if Ferguson wasn't going to be suspended for the first handful of games. Who do they have behind Ferguson right now?

SenorGato
03-19-2010, 09:10 PM
I think he's going to Denver at 11.

I think Cody is the sleeper at 9 for Buffalo...

Grizzlegom
03-19-2010, 09:14 PM
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see him go to the Bills at 9 or the Broncos at 10.

Bills at 9 are my thought. If Bradford, Okung, and Bulaga are all off the board, I could easily see them calling Dan Williams come draft day. They have been good at addressing every other need for their conversion to the 3-4 so why not grab the final piece to the puzzle? NT isn't nearly as deep as OT this year.

V.I.P
03-19-2010, 09:22 PM
Bills at 9 are my thought. If Bradford, Okung, and Bulaga are all off the board, I could easily see them calling Dan Williams come draft day. They have been good at addressing every other need for their conversion to the 3-4 so why not grab the final piece to the puzzle? NT isn't nearly as deep as OT this year.

I really don't think NT is the final piece to their puzzle. Who is their pass rushing OLB ??

Rosebud
03-20-2010, 12:29 AM
have nothing against DW, who is a solid player in his own right

but 5 years from now

we might look back at this draft and wonder "how did Dan Williams go higher than Terrence Cody?"

We might, but I doubt it, Dan Williams is quicker, more athletic and will be more consistent/durable.

I'm a big DW fan and want the giants to draft him or Brian Price at 15 over anyone except Suh or McCoy.

I really don't think NT is the final piece to their puzzle. Who is their pass rushing OLB ??

Maybin and Schobel?...

K Train
03-20-2010, 12:57 AM
i dont like him in a 34, but i think hes a future star in a 43. i think the titans couldnt be anymore of a perfect fit for him

CashmoneyDrew
03-20-2010, 12:57 AM
Yup, yup. When Dan Williams is an all-pro tackle 5 years from now, just remember this sexy, humble mother ****** that gave you a heads up back in 2008! ;)

Grizzlegom
03-20-2010, 08:02 AM
I really don't think NT is the final piece to their puzzle. Who is their pass rushing OLB ??

The Bills have always liked the smaller DEs and as a result pretty much all of them translate to the 3-4 pretty well. If they don't trade Schobel, him and Aaron Maybin will make a darn good pair from the OLB spots plus this draft is deep at 3-4 OLB so they could get someone like Gibson or Worilds in the early 3rd and they'd be pretty set there for a while IMO. Maybin is going to blow up standing up, mark it down.

GoRavens
03-20-2010, 08:21 AM
I could see a needy NFL team drafting this guy earlier than he should...
(15-20) is perfect for him.
He's got excellent size, and is surprisingly athletic for a big man. He excels at stopping the run and clogging space, due to his powerful nature. Williams is also the kind of player that pans out to be much better in the pros. His conditioning must be improved, and thats essential in my eyes. He needs to go to a team that will focus greatly on improving his stamina, because in the pros, you'll get cut if you're as inconsistent and lazy as Williams was at times in his college career.
The Broncos, Dolphins & Giants are his top 3 landing spots.
I personally believe he'll be a Giant.

CLong4Heisman
03-20-2010, 09:27 AM
He won't get past the Jets at 29 but there is a great chance he's gone at 12 to Miami.

BaLLiN
03-20-2010, 09:32 AM
...still a mid 20 pick value to me, wouldnt waste #15 on him. Idk why, but even though hes not like Justin Harrell as a prospect, he scares me of being the bust that JH is.

BJJ3rd
03-20-2010, 10:40 AM
Personally, I am not quite buying into William's hype yet. I see him as a late first/early second kind of guy. Do I think some team like Miami could reach on him, yes. But do I think they should? Definitely not.

The_Dude
03-20-2010, 10:43 AM
I'm holding out hope that he slips down to the Vikings at 30, but all of his offseason hype makes that less and less likely. :(

keylime_5
03-20-2010, 10:54 AM
Williams and Odrick will go a lot higher than a lot of the initial projections say. Williams for sure in the 10-20 range, Odrick between 15 and 30 with the potential to go in that 10-15 range even b/c teams love guys who are great fits at the 5 technique nowadays with half the league moving to 3-4s.

CashmoneyDrew
03-20-2010, 11:59 AM
...still a mid 20 pick value to me, wouldnt waste #15 on him. Idk why, but even though hes not like Justin Harrell as a prospect, he scares me of being the bust that JH is.

Justin Harrell was a beast of a college prospect. He didn't pan out because of injuries. I don't know what about his bad luck would scare you from Dan Williams.

superfly69
03-20-2010, 12:25 PM
I would be very surprised if he got out of the top #16. Miami at #12 seems like a perfect fit.

Supporting Caste
03-20-2010, 01:10 PM
I know Miami seems like the most logical landing spot right now, but it's actually not, if you follow Parcells draft history. He rarely, if ever takes NT's that high. He likes to find late round guys to contribute (ala Jason Ferguson). I could see someone like Jeff Owens being a target in the 4th round instead. He's a perfect fit for us there.


This is mostly true. Parcells was really high on Dewayne Robertson and Kevin Williams back in 2003 (?) but he might not have known at that point that he would be transitioning to the 3-4 next year. Also, Williams would have been seen as a DE if he did anticipate the change.

So Dewayne Robertson is basically the only exception.

The rest of his time in Dallas he just threw **** at the wall, and none of it stuck, so he signed Jason Ferguson instead of Pat Williams (FFFFUUUU BILL).

LonghornsLegend
03-20-2010, 01:51 PM
I know Miami seems like the most logical landing spot right now, but it's actually not, if you follow Parcells draft history. He rarely, if ever takes NT's that high. He likes to find late round guys to contribute (ala Jason Ferguson). I could see someone like Jeff Owens being a target in the 4th round instead. He's a perfect fit for us there.

And with Kyle Williams as the only start Buffalo has as a NT right now, I could see them taking him earlier than expected at #9. Especially if guys like Bulaga and Okung are off the board.


That has nothing to do with how he'll build a completely different team. Has he ever needed a NT this badly before? Ferguson is on his last legs, with barely anything left when he left Dallas. Now he's gone for the first 8 games also, playing the most important position in a 3-4? Every team he's been on has been a different situation, I don't think he's ever needed a NT before like now. If he can get Cody in the 2nd I think he'd take that, otherwise I don't see it being a bad pick taking Williams there.


You can get an edge rusher in the 2nd or 3rd easily.




The Broncos, Dolphins & Giants are his top 3 landing spots.
I personally believe he'll be a Giant.

I think the Giants will decide who they have higher between Williams & Spoon, considering I think McClain will be gone. Williams could also be gone at #12, I thought Miami should go after Dez Bryant or Williams there, a NT makes more sense.

SenorGato
03-20-2010, 02:42 PM
Anyone else think that Williams is slightly overrated due to the fact that his upside is pretty limited?

He's a better player than the college guys he's coming out with right now, but he's also older and more experienced than almost all of them. He's also pretty filled out with little hope of adding any significant changes to his body in the NFL....

Good player and probably worthy of a 1st round pick due to positional value, but I think I'd take Cody over him. Pretty damn easily actually...

Rosebud
03-20-2010, 02:45 PM
Anyone else think that Williams is slightly overrated due to the fact that his upside is pretty limited?

He's a better player than the college guys he's coming out with right now, but he's also older and more experienced than almost all of them. He's also pretty filled out with little hope of adding any significant changes to his body in the NFL....

Good player and probably worthy of a 1st round pick due to positional value, but I think I'd take Cody over him. Pretty damn easily actually...

How exactly is his upside any more limited than Cody's, who's stamina will always hold him back?

keylime_5
03-20-2010, 02:52 PM
No way. Williams is clearly the top nose tackle in this draft. He's gonna be a top 20 pick and Cody probably a 2nd round pick and with good reason. No matter who you are you are gonna add weight when you get older and with nose tackles that's not always the worst thing since they get bigger stronger and harder to move. Williams is gonna be like Wilfork except not quite that wide.

CashmoneyDrew
03-20-2010, 02:52 PM
How exactly is his upside any more limited than Cody's, who's stamina will always hold him back?

Not to mention the fact that Dan Williams is way more versatile. He can play 3-4 NT as well as 3-4 end if need be as well as being able to play in the 4-3 unlike Cody.

essential
03-20-2010, 03:41 PM
What would be a better value and talent for the Bills NT?

Dan Williams at 9
or
Terrence Cody at 41

I've read Williams has the ability to collapse the pocket and is more athletic overall, whereas Cody is just a space eater who can't be moved, but can Williams 2-gap as well as Cody? Isn't space eating the number one priority in a 2-gap 3-4 NT?

Cigaro
03-20-2010, 03:45 PM
Terrence Cody. Dan Williams is good, but not top ten good IMO, especially considering the Bills needs/players available. Dan Williams is more 20-32 range for me.

Rosebud
03-20-2010, 04:05 PM
What would be a better value and talent for the Bills NT?

Dan Williams at 9
or
Terrence Cody at 41

I've read Williams has the ability to collapse the pocket and is more athletic overall, whereas Cody is just a space eater who can't be moved, but can Williams 2-gap as well as Cody? Isn't space eating the number one priority in a 2-gap 3-4 NT?

The bills OL is in too bad of a shape to spend that pick on DW. IF Cody's there in round two you take your NT then, if not you wait til the third and grab whoever's left of Cam Thomas, Linval Joseph and Torrell Troup.

K Train
03-20-2010, 04:40 PM
cody>williams as a 34 NT, williams will be overwhelmed by all the doubles.

Williams>cody when it comes to conditioning and pass rushing.

it depends on what you want, give me cody all day. he wont be a second round pick

LonghornsLegend
03-20-2010, 04:48 PM
cody>williams as a 34 NT, williams will be overwhelmed by all the doubles.

Williams>cody when it comes to conditioning and pass rushing.

it depends on what you want, give me cody all day. he wont be a second round pick


I get the feeling you didn't see Williams play one time this year.

CashmoneyDrew
03-20-2010, 04:50 PM
I get the feeling you didn't see Williams play one time this year.

Regular season or senior bowl for that matter.

K Train
03-20-2010, 04:51 PM
I get the feeling you didn't see Williams play one time this year.

your wrong, i see exactly why he went from being a 4th round prospect to a top 15 one. i dont think hes what i would want in a 34 taking up blocks in the NFL, but if you put him in NY, Houston, Tennessee ect id be really excited about him

im not saying he cant do it, hes a good player, but for the steelers i would prefer cody hands down.

i just dont think hes the type of NT you draft to build a 34 defense around, especailly not a new one making the transition. i refuse to just assume every first round prospect is a superstar, if he didnt have a good season or senior bowl he wouldnt be a first round prospect....but you cant tell me theres not the slightest chance of him not panning out in a 34 or even worse becoming the next justin harrell

J255979-11nine
03-20-2010, 06:14 PM
your wrong, i see exactly why he went from being a 4th round prospect to a top 15 one. i dont think hes what i would want in a 34 taking up blocks in the NFL, but if you put him in NY, Houston, Tennessee ect id be really excited about him

im not saying he cant do it, hes a good player, but for the steelers i would prefer cody hands down.

i just dont think hes the type of NT you draft to build a 34 defense around, especailly not a new one making the transition. i refuse to just assume every first round prospect is a superstar, if he didnt have a good season or senior bowl he wouldnt be a first round prospect....but you cant tell me theres not the slightest chance of him not panning out in a 34 or even worse becoming the next justin harrell


Harrell was considered a large reach when he was picked. He was also not on the same level as a prospect as Williams is.

K Train
03-20-2010, 06:25 PM
i understand that...different players but im saying i dont really think hes the next big thing if he has to play in a 34. i loved him when he was a 3rd or 4th round prospect, but now im a little leery about taking him in the first

LonghornsLegend
03-20-2010, 06:33 PM
i understand that...different players but im saying i dont really think hes the next big thing if he has to play in a 34. i loved him when he was a 3rd or 4th round prospect, but now im a little leery about taking him in the first

None of that has to do with the fact that you said he'd get "overwhelmed by double teams". He was constantly doubled at the Senior Bowl and was immovable, he's looked at by many teams as a 3-4 NT due to the fact that he's such a force against double teams.


He may not be a blob like Cody is, but saying he'd get overwhelmed by double teams is completely off base of what type of player he is, and will be. That has nothing to do with him being a superstar, or being leery of him. Which still leads me to believe you didn't see much, if any, of him at all.

K Train
03-20-2010, 06:41 PM
None of that has to do with the fact that you said he'd get "overwhelmed by double teams". He was constantly doubled at the Senior Bowl and was immovable, he's looked at by many teams as a 3-4 NT due to the fact that he's such a force against double teams.


He may not be a blob like Cody is, but saying he'd get overwhelmed by double teams is completely off base of what type of player he is, and will be. That has nothing to do with him being a superstar, or being leery of him. Which still leads me to believe you didn't see much, if any, of him at all.

by overwhelmed i guess i didnt really mean pushed around, but more uneffective at taking up blockers in a by-the-book 34 (not so much a dallas or az one). I see him as a player that is better at taking on a double team in a 43 and shedding off to get after the QB, which is something i would never ask cody to do but id expect cody to take up 2-3 blockers on any play for his entire career. you can undermine my intelligence or ability to evaluate how i think he will be used best i dont care, but i saw enough of him that i think he looks like a stud in a 43, but not among the elite in a 34

CashmoneyDrew
03-20-2010, 07:24 PM
Harrell was considered a large reach when he was picked. He was also not on the same level as a prospect as Williams is.

Actually, had Harrell not gotten hurt early his senior year, he would have been a better prospect than Dan Williams and maybe even challenged Amobi Okoye for top DT taken that year.