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View Full Version : Is M.Pouncey is huge reach in top 10?


Oaktown1981
03-28-2010, 05:50 PM
Reports the Raiders really like Pouncey if they were to draft him 8th overall would that be considered a huge reach?

When you consider the OL that will be on the board 8th

Campbell, Davis, Williams all of them seem to have several issues with their game or off field.

I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about Pouncey.

Thoughts?

RaiderNation
03-28-2010, 05:51 PM
Lol thread name fail

Yes a center in the top 10 is a reach. Id take him 15-20 though

Matthew Jones
03-28-2010, 05:52 PM
It would be a pretty big reach, but at the same time the center important is becoming a lot more important these days with the advent of the 3-4 defense. The fiesty little guys teams used to use there (Dan Koppen) aren't really able to hold up against these bigger guys as much and so bigger, stronger centers are required. The Raiders play in a division with three teams running the 3-4 defense, so they're going to be going against those nose tackles pretty often. Pouncey would certainly help them out there. However, it'd be a little bit ridiculous to spend that early of a pick on him. If they were able to trade down ten picks or so, that would make more sense.

cvv84
03-28-2010, 05:53 PM
He's be a reach but I guess value is in the eye of the beholder. I think the middle to late 1st is where he should go. He has the ability to play center and guard which helps his value but if you could trade down, pick up some extra picks, and nab him I think would be a better option. Taking him in the top 10 would just be overpaying a non-premium position in my opinion, which is why guards and centers rarely go in the 1st round.

wicket
03-28-2010, 05:54 PM
i dont get why people love him so much

keylime_5
03-28-2010, 05:56 PM
any center is a huge massive reach inside of the top 15. If they want him they can either trade up from their round 2 pick, or do what the browns did last year and trade down a bunch until their pick is in the 20s and take him.

Go_Eagles77
03-28-2010, 06:16 PM
I love how he has been considered a late first-early second round prospect for months and now that I'm starting to come around to the eagles drafting him everyone is projecting him to be gone by then.

FUNBUNCHER
03-28-2010, 06:18 PM
Has a Center ever been drafted in the top 10 since 1980??

Look, if my team was loaded at every position and simply lacked quality Center play, I could rationalize the pick. But since most good Centers are available late in the first round on down, picking one in the top 10 is poor value IMO.

Go_Eagles77
03-28-2010, 06:19 PM
To answer the question, I wouldn't put anything past Al Davis.

619
03-28-2010, 06:33 PM
Al Davis is the same guy to take a kicker in the first round - if Cable convinces him that the center play is a significant part of the team's offensive struggles (besides the obvious poor QB play), then there's absolutely no stopping him from going in that direction. These are the Oakland Raiders after all. It'd be a great way to stick it to the Broncos who I'm certain are eyeing him as well. For whatever reason I think Pouncey's value is greater in the scouting community than it is in the draftnik community. He's as clean of a prospect on and off the field as you're going to find in this class and he can give you an immediate return on your investment by stepping in day one and solidifying the position for 10 years at the minimum.

Here's what Wes Bunting of the National Football Post has to say on Pouncey:

Pouncey is a massive 6-5, 318-pound interior lineman who displays the flexibility and power to consistently overwhelm defenders in the run game, as well as the fluidity and athleticism to slide his feet and mirror in pass protection. Pouncey not only looks like the nation’s top center prospect, he grades out as one of the draft’s top overall talents in my opinion. He has the makings of someone capable of winning a starting job in training camp and eventually developing into one of the league’s top centers.

BTW, excellent post ROP.

eagles6606
03-28-2010, 06:55 PM
It would definately be a reach, but at least they'd get a good player....unlike Russell and Heyward-Bey.

RealityCheck
03-28-2010, 06:59 PM
Who was the highest pick for a center? Mack?

CC.SD
03-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Who was the highest pick for a center? Mack?

Bruce Matthews went #8 but is primarily known as a guard.

JFLO
03-28-2010, 07:28 PM
It's an obvious reach and if the team was smart, then they would at least trade with a team like Pittsburgh, San Francisco or Tennessee to try and get Pouncey if they truly wanted him at #8.

Personally, I think Pouncey is a fantastic prospect. Fantastic combination of size, speed and versatility. He and Iupati have definite 1st round grades.

TheMatriculator
03-28-2010, 08:13 PM
Al Davis is the same guy to take a kicker in the first round - if Cable convinces him that the center play is a significant part of the team's offensive struggles (besides the obvious poor QB play), then there's absolutely no stopping him from going in that direction. These are the Oakland Raiders after all.

I'm not sure Cable would have anything to do with this. It could be Al is looking for another Jim Otto. That sounds kind of crazy, but....well, it is Al.
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20060705_cancer_join_jim/photos/Otto_1.jpg

BuffaloBillsFan
03-28-2010, 08:14 PM
I'd rather have Iupati over Pouncey, but then again we're comparing apples to oranges here, as one is a guard and the other is a center, so I guess, to answer your question, yes, taking Pouncey with the 8th pick is a tremendous reach, but with your 2nd round pick? That would be great value.

K Train
03-28-2010, 09:14 PM
pouncey>iupati

pouncey is silky smooth sex on turf....he has elite center written all over him, id take him at 18, not sure top 10 though

STsACE
03-28-2010, 09:19 PM
For the Raiders? No.

Any other team? Yes.

Although, my team did take Alex Mack last year after trading out of the #5 spot. With the progression Mack made, I wouldn't be mad if we went back in time and picked Mack at #5.

wordofi
03-28-2010, 10:39 PM
I don't think it's a reach at all. Football games are won and lost in the trenches. Also, the other three teams in their division play a 3-4 defense. Due to this report that the Raiders are interested in him, he'll be gone within the first 15 picks. Also, I think he's a better prospect than both Mack and Mangold due to Pouncey having better strength than Mangold and better physical tools than Mack coming out. .

Don Vito
03-28-2010, 10:45 PM
It would be a pretty big reach, but at the same time the center important is becoming a lot more important these days with the advent of the 3-4 defense. The fiesty little guys teams used to use there (Dan Koppen) aren't really able to hold up against these bigger guys as much and so bigger, stronger centers are required. The Raiders play in a division with three teams running the 3-4 defense, so they're going to be going against those nose tackles pretty often. Pouncey would certainly help them out there. However, it'd be a little bit ridiculous to spend that early of a pick on him. If they were able to trade down ten picks or so, that would make more sense.

So true...this is why Pouncey would be one of the picks I would be OK with if we don't take a pass rusher in the first.

wogitalia
03-28-2010, 11:54 PM
I have him as one of my best overall players. Similar to Berry and McClain I have him in the top 10 or so players but find it hard to see him being drafted their due to his position.

That said, If feel center has and is becoming more important. You have the 3-4 to thank for that. There is the obvious reason of having to block the big NT types. Second to that and perhaps more importantly you have blitz pickup, the 4-3 is basically a pair of ends going, the 3-4 you have to locate and assign pre-snap who is blocking who.

I actually think that, value aside, this would be an excellent pick by the Raiders. Obviously if they could move down to 15 and take him it would be better but I think there are far worse picks they could make(just about everything else that has been suggested really). If you weren't going to have to make him the highest paid center it is a good pick and fit talent wise.

PACKmanN
03-29-2010, 02:15 AM
You have to ask if the center position is an impact position where the 8th overall pick is needed, and if he would have a major impact to a team. The qb first reads the defense and works with his center to locate where the blitz is coming from. The Raiders do not have a QB. Plus, reading what a defense is doing isn't a skill, you can learn it by just watching film and looking at what the defense does. You guys are over valuing the position.


This is as dumb as if they took a kicker in the first round, oh wait...

boknows34
03-29-2010, 02:50 AM
Who was the highest pick for a center? Mack?

The Bengals took a center 2nd overall in the 1968 draft.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnBo01.htm

Since the merger it would be Matthews, as stated by CC.SD, though he is better known as a guard and played the majority of his career there.

I remember reading the Raiders loved Alex Mack last year which I didn't have a problem with as long as they traded down into the mid teens. With hindsight I wish they had just pulled the trigger at #8 on Mack instead of Darrius Wayward-Bust.

Scott Wright
03-29-2010, 05:50 AM
Yes, Pouncey would be a reach in the Top 10 but not as much as some think. He's legitimately in contention to be one of the Top 20 overall prospects in this draft.

umphrey
03-29-2010, 06:13 AM
Answer: Yes. He is a good but not perfect prospect and he would have to be mind blowing to be a very rare center worthy of a top 10 pick. That's how I feel about drafting him, if you want to talk hindsight, I'd say it was worth it if he makes multiple pro bowls. I would probably have to add that Oakland didn't pass on a good talent at a position of need who also went on to great success, say the top 3 OTs.

I think his true value is right around the Packers pick, maybe within 5-8 picks ahead (15-23). I would call that pick a B if the Packers got him in round 1, so maybe that tells you something about how much I value him.

Addict
03-29-2010, 06:18 AM
Yes, Pouncey would be a reach in the Top 10 but not as much as some think. He's legitimately in contention to be one of the Top 20 overall prospects in this draft.

still he doesn't seem to be on the radar of many guys. I've heard so any people mention Iupati but Pouncey's name has only really popped up as a potential top pick recently.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-29-2010, 06:21 AM
It'd be as much as a reach as taking DHB in the top 10. He's a first round prospect, just not top 10 IMO, on the record though if you are looking purely at the players and not positional needs I slightly prefer Iutapi to him, although that's a stylistic favoritism. The Raiders certainly though don't mind setting precedence for drafting a position high, as they took Janakowski with the 17th pick in the draft(I do believe though the Saints took a kicker top 10 in the 70's? Am I right?). There is no doubt Pouncey is a great player and probably would be a pro bowler wherever he goes, but top 10 is a hefty price tag for a center. Jason Brown though did sign that massive contract last year. I do believe though that if Pouncey were taken top 10 the payday would be around the 5 years 37 mil, 20 mil guaranteed that Brown signed in Free Agency. Brown though for the most part was already a proven NFL quantity though.

umphrey
03-29-2010, 06:38 AM
It'd be as much as a reach as taking DHB in the top 10. He's a first round prospect, just not top 10 IMO, on the record though if you are looking purely at the players and not positional needs I slightly prefer Iutapi to him, although that's a stylistic favoritism. The Raiders certainly though don't mind setting precedence for drafting a position high, as they took Janakowski with the 17th pick in the draft(I do believe though the Saints took a kicker top 10 in the 70's? Am I right?). There is no doubt Pouncey is a great player and probably would be a pro bowler wherever he goes, but top 10 is a hefty price tag for a center. Jason Brown though did sign that massive contract last year. I do believe though that if Pouncey were taken top 10 the payday would be around the 5 years 37 mil, 20 mil guaranteed that Brown signed in Free Agency. Brown though for the most part was already a proven NFL quantity though.

DHB was a big reach but not like Pouncey would be. At least DHB is built like Randy Moss so there was some logic there. He has all pro tools at a more valuable position. Pouncey isn't a freak athlete and an all pro center would just barely justify an 8th overall pick IMO.

killxswitch
03-29-2010, 08:28 AM
If he were picked that high he'd be a lock to make a few pro bowls on name recognition alone. He was the 8th pick in the draft in 2010, he must deserve a pro bowl, right?

JFLO
03-29-2010, 08:33 AM
If he were picked that high he'd be a lock to make a few pro bowls on name recognition alone. He was the 8th pick in the draft in 2010, he must deserve a pro bowl, right?

Yea, but he would be playing with the Raiders, so...

killxswitch
03-29-2010, 08:42 AM
Yea, but he would be playing with the Raiders, so...

True. The two might cancel each other out.

NIN1984
03-29-2010, 12:22 PM
Sure its a reach but I wouldn't be mad like last year. I think Pouncey is going to be a great pro, its not like we would be drafting some track star we would be drafting an actual football player.

TACKLE
03-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Although I do not believe the Raiders will really even consider Pouncey at #8 and personally I liked Mack more, he is probably of greater value to the Raiders than he is to most of teams in the league. The Raiders play in the NFC West where the Chiefs, Broncos and Chargers all run a 3-4. Though none of these teams have a dominant NT, every season they are play a minimum of 6 games against 3-4 teams so it is still very important that you have a Center who can control their NT.

EndZoneDB
03-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Why isn't he projected to the Titans ever?

I would think with the loss of Mawae they would be looking for a Center... or do they have someone i just don't know about?

You would think they want to keep that Johnson train rolling.

Mr.Regular
03-29-2010, 02:51 PM
I put Pouncey at 11 to Denver in my latest mock. I think its possible he goes top 20 like Scott said. He is a fantastic prospect, better than Mack last year. He could go 11, 16, 18, 19... so lots of landing spots in that top 20.

DeepThreat
03-29-2010, 03:11 PM
I like Pouncey a lot, but he is definitely a reach in the top 10. Around 20, I think he's a good pick for a team needing a center.

Addict
03-29-2010, 03:26 PM
I like Pouncey a lot, but he is definitely a reach in the top 10. Around 20, I think he's a good pick for a team needing a center.

or a guard, he can play guard too, right?

Babylon
03-29-2010, 03:29 PM
Bigger reach Darrius Heyward Bey in the top 10 or Pouncey? that first one was a real stinker.

Paranoidmoonduck
03-29-2010, 03:32 PM
Considering that I think that without the Raiders selection, Darrius Heyward-Bey was absolutely going to be picked outside the top 20 picks and that a guy like Bruce Campbell will be picked outside the top 20 unless the Raiders decide otherwise, I have no problem with Pouncey becoming Oakland's pick. Sure, his position is uncommon for a selection that high, but he'd help the offensive line tons.

lance uppercut
03-29-2010, 07:04 PM
pouncey is silky smooth sex on turf....

good god, man. you don't talk that way in real life, do you?

boknows34
03-30-2010, 08:56 AM
. The Raiders certainly though don't mind setting precedence for drafting a position high, as they took Janakowski with the 17th pick in the draft(I do believe though the Saints took a kicker top 10 in the 70's? Am I right?).


In 1979 New Orleans made one of the worst draft picks in NFL history when they took kicker Russell Erxleben with the 11th OVERALL pick, two spots ahead of future HOF TE Kellen Winslow Sr. Erxleben kicked only 4-8 FGs in his career and ended up being the Saints' punter for four very mediocre seasons. He was out of the NFL by the age of 28.

Their disaster with Erxleben obviously didn't put off New Orleans from drafting a kicker early when in the 4th rd of the 1982 draft they took the 'Great Dane' Morten Andersen.

In 1978 the Cardinals took a kicker called Steve Little with the 15th overall pick. His career stats: 125 punts, 38.5 avg. 13-27 FGs and 41-51 PATs.

UK_Raider
03-30-2010, 09:15 AM
IDK. I just can't make my mind up about this. I keep going between

a/. If they decide that he's the best OL available and they can build the line around him then go for it - value/need is in the eye of the drafting team (and we know Al doesn't care what other people think

but then there's b/. we need a LT who's at least half way decent

Although......maybe Al's thinking that a left side interior of Pouncey and Gallery is good enough to be able to help <insert LT name here - Mario??> out from time to time??

Dark Knight01
03-30-2010, 02:35 PM
Reports the Raiders really like Pouncey if they were to draft him 8th overall would that be considered a huge reach?

When you consider the OL that will be on the board 8th

Campbell, Davis, Williams all of them seem to have several issues with their game or off field.

I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about Pouncey.

Thoughts?







That would be a reach worth taking IMO! Much better than last years crazy, stupid, lame reach with DHB!

Pounceys stock is rising fast and he is the best Center/Guard combo in the draft....hands down! He is much more athletic and a better technician than Iupati without a doubt.

He is 6'4, 310, has long arms and would add much needed POWER and VERSATILITY in the middle of that Raider O-Line.

Picking Pouncey at #8 would an excellent pick IMO!

The Raiders can then still draft a O-Tackle in Round 3 or 4 potentially.

Dark Knight01
03-30-2010, 02:44 PM
Sure its a reach but I wouldn't be mad like last year. I think Pouncey is going to be a great pro, its not like we would be drafting some track star we would be drafting an actual football player.





Exactly!

Plus it wouldn't be that much of a reach....he is projected to go between picks 11-18 anyway.

Supposedly Denver really likes him!

FlyingElvis
03-30-2010, 02:49 PM
Yes, he's a reach in the top ten because the position is not worth a top 10 pick.

Who was the highest pick for a center? Mack?

Going back . . . way back . . .

Looks like the Packers have that distinction: 1967 1 9(9) Packers Bob Hyland C Boston College

Dark Knight01
03-30-2010, 03:04 PM
Yes, he's a reach in the top ten because the position is not worth a top 10 pick.



Going back . . . way back . . .

Looks like the Packers have that distinction: 1967 1 9(9) Packers Bob Hyland C Boston College






What is a reach and what isn't a reach is all subjective.

Pouncey is the best Center and Guard in this draft and the highest rated and #1 overall Center and Guard.

The Center position in the NFL is just as important as having a good LT on that O-Line.

Every teams draft board is different and if the Raiders value having a solid Center, than why not get the highest rated overall at #8 instead of having him go to a better team between picks 11-18??

Not that much of a reach if you think about it!

Picking Pouncey at #8 would be GREAT value IMO!

Dark Knight01
03-30-2010, 03:10 PM
I love how he has been considered a late first-early second round prospect for months and now that I'm starting to come around to the eagles drafting him everyone is projecting him to be gone by then.





His stock has shot through the roof for a reason people!

He aint going late first round.....if the Raiders don't pick him with great value at pick at #8....then he will be gone anyway between picks 11-19 anyway.

Dark Knight01
03-30-2010, 03:15 PM
It's an obvious reach and if the team was smart, then they would at least trade with a team like Pittsburgh, San Francisco or Tennessee to try and get Pouncey if they truly wanted him at #8.

Personally, I think Pouncey is a fantastic prospect. Fantastic combination of size, speed and versatility. He and Iupati have definite 1st round grades.






Pouncey also has POWER!

A much more technically sound prospect than Iupati also.

Dark Knight01
03-30-2010, 05:31 PM
It'd be as much as a reach as taking DHB in the top 10. He's a first round prospect, just not top 10 IMO, on the record though if you are looking purely at the players and not positional needs I slightly prefer Iutapi to him, although that's a stylistic favoritism. The Raiders certainly though don't mind setting precedence for drafting a position high, as they took Janakowski with the 17th pick in the draft(I do believe though the Saints took a kicker top 10 in the 70's? Am I right?). There is no doubt Pouncey is a great player and probably would be a pro bowler wherever he goes, but top 10 is a hefty price tag for a center. Jason Brown though did sign that massive contract last year. I do believe though that if Pouncey were taken top 10 the payday would be around the 5 years 37 mil, 20 mil guaranteed that Brown signed in Free Agency. Brown though for the most part was already a proven NFL quantity though.






As much of a reach as DHB was???

Get outta here with that!

Pouncey would actually be a legit reach like Tyson Jackson was for the Chefs last year right? haha

Picking DHB last year was the reach of all reaches.....right up there with drafting a kicker in Round 1.....Ooops wait....

Donno
03-31-2010, 02:33 AM
I like Pouncey but I don't think he should be top 15, he played out of the shotgun throughout college. He does have all the physical tools to be a first rounder though.

FUNBUNCHER
04-02-2010, 08:25 AM
Why don't the Raiders attempt to trade out of the 8th spot into the mid teens?

Pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder, and still get Pouncey.

WOrk those phones, AL!!!!!

Oaktown1981
04-02-2010, 10:29 AM
Why don't the Raiders attempt to trade out of the 8th spot into the mid teens?

Pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder, and still get Pouncey.

WOrk those phones, AL!!!!!

Of course that would be ideal but most teams don't want to draft in the top 10.. I'm sure the Raiders would try to contact teams 13-19 about a possible trade down..

FUNBUNCHER
04-02-2010, 10:43 AM
If JPP, Spiller, Dez Bryant, Eric Berry, maybe McClain are still on the board, I could see the Raiders working a deal.

The cost of signing a prospect at #8 isn't as prohibitive as the price tag would be in the top 5, especially for a non QB.