Give your thoughts on the forum mock

[Me Likey Rookies]

I am assisting Caddy and so far we have taken:

1. DT Gerald McCoy

2a. WR Golden Tate

2b. WR Arrelious Benn

3. CB Brandon Ghee

4. DE Jermaine Cunningham

thoughts? comments?

[bucfan12]

Um, I'm not opposed to taking 2 wr's in the 2nd round, but I am not a fan of taking Golden Tate. I think he is going to be a good player in the slot and right now, Thats where I see Sammie Stroughter playing. If Demaryous Thomas is there at 35, he HAS TO BE THE PICK! Then at 42, I would love to see us draft Damien Williams. We get a deep threat and a solid route runner and possession WR, then we could get a CB and DE with the next 2 pciks.

[Me Likey Rookies]

Tate is much more explosive than Stroughter and Thomas was gone before #35. I think Thomas has become very overrated, Benn could be just as good. Tate/Benn is a lot of talent to add for Freeman.

[Caddy]

Bear in mind that there were zero DE's worth selecting and the CB value wasn't good either.

MLR sold me on the idea of two receivers and I just went with it to the benefit of the team in my opinion.

[irishbucsfan]

If the CB value wasn't good then those two receivers are a great call in my opinion.

[Merlin]

I like it, but do you have a link to the whole draft?

[Me Likey Rookies]

Merlin, it is in the fantasy section of this forum.

While I would be happy with the draft we had, I wanted to give my personal dream draft:

1. DT Ndamukong Suh ... nothing really needs to be said, I will be fine with McCoy but only if Suh goes 1 or 2.

2a. WR Arrelious Benn ... love his potential as a #1 WR. He is a strong runner after the catch so it will make things easier for Freeman to just hit him on a cross or screen.

2b. CB Patrick Robinson ... great speed (4.4 at combine and proday) and great quickness and fluidity. Will struggle with big WRs but that is why we have Talib. He should be a great #2 CB.

3. LB Brandon Spikes ... I still have a crush on Spikes. Fiery leader, monster vs the run, and fantastic blitzer off the edge. If he doesnt replace Ruud next year at MLB, he could replace Black at SLB. Raheem wont ask him to drop back deep in coverage.

4. RT Kyle Calloway ... I HATE HATE HATE Jeremy Trueblood. Here is his replacement.

We can take a DE after that, I would be fine with a rotation of White, Moore, Crowder, and Wilkerson (?). We can get a stud DE next year and lets not forget Suh/McCoy will make our passrush 10 times better.

[brasho]

Merlin, it is in the fantasy section of this forum.

While I would be happy with the draft we had, I wanted to give my personal dream draft:

1. DT Ndamukong Suh ... nothing really needs to be said, I will be fine with McCoy but only if Suh goes 1 or 2.

2a. WR Arrelious Benn ... love his potential as a #1 WR. He is a strong runner after the catch so it will make things easier for Freeman to just hit him on a cross or screen.

2b. CB Patrick Robinson ... great speed (4.4 at combine and proday) and great quickness and fluidity. Will struggle with big WRs but that is why we have Talib. He should be a great #2 CB.

3. LB Brandon Spikes ... I still have a crush on Spikes. Fiery leader, monster vs the run, and fantastic blitzer off the edge. If he doesnt replace Ruud next year at MLB, he could replace Black at SLB. Raheem wont ask him to drop back deep in coverage.

4. RT Kyle Calloway ... I HATE HATE HATE Jeremy Trueblood. Here is his replacement.

We can take a DE after that, I would be fine with a rotation of White, Moore, Crowder, and Wilkerson (?). We can get a stud DE next year and lets not forget Suh/McCoy will make our passrush 10 times better.

Too much Florida love. Patrick Robinson shouldn't be taken that high. His ninconsistencies and non-tackling ways will make him NOT a Buccaneer. Then like the original poster, you completely disregarded DE, which we wouldn't need to draft any DBs if we had a half-decent pass rush. Anybody would be better, (Ghee, Cook, Murphy, etc).


And seriously... you like Spikes that much? We can get him with one of our 4 7th round picks.. but I gotta warn you, It'll be a wasted pick. Beyond slow, this guy is not fluid or athletic enough to play LB in the T-2. You suggest we take our fastest LB (Black-who is possibly the fastest LB in the NFL) with somebody that would probably be the slowest in the league. You say that Morris wouldn't ask him to drop back deep... wouldn't that be a major weakness then? Spikes willl go either UDFA or in round 7... here's why:

#1 He's a 2 down run stopper that will likely only project to teams running the 3-4. He's a far slower version of Brandon Siler who lasted until round 7 a few years back despite all the UF homer love.

#2 He can't really cover anybody or any amount of ground and the NFL is about speed. 5.05 40 only cuts it if the guy's hand is on the ground.

#3 He's too slow to even play special teams. Teams put their fastest players on the coverage units and Spikes would be slower than all the other LBs and TEs and most of the DEs...so if he were drafted he would be expected to start from day 1 because backup LBs in the NFL almost always play special teams.



DE is not something you can just address some other time... it is IMPORTANT! We have 3 in-house candidates to take over at RT (Dotson, Zuttah, Penn-if we go LT in the first 2 rounds).

McCoy has a huge bust factor and Suh might be pretty good, but neither is going to make the pass rush 10X better, they are one guy. One piece of the puzzle, a puzzle that needs... pieces!

Address the pass rush early and often.

[Me Likey Rookies]

brasho - I disagree with pretty much everything you just said but it is late, so I will go into detail about it tomorow

[bigfreak314]

First and Foremost I agree with Thomas overhype, I think in the 1st round unless it is a QB, u try to draft a starter who is going to play a lot the upcoming season. I know he has started running a little bit on his foot now from but only sparingly. Also he is coming from an option style offense where he only ran go routes pretty much or as they say in the route trees, the 9, which is something else he has to get accostumed to. I'm not bashing the guy I just think he needs to get drafted in the 2nd with all that transitioning.

Second where is the love for speedy LBs? T2 lives and thrives off that IDK if I see Spikes fitting the mold of a Derrick Brooks/Jamie Duncan/Shelton Quarles etc mold. He seems more of a thumper in a 3-4, playing the weakside inside LB. I like Spikes as a player, when he was healthy his JR year the dude was a beast. A few names to throw around in the 3rd maybe LB Washington(if he falls that far), LB AJ Edds, LB Riley(possibly in the 4th)

I haven't seen you alls' entire mock draft so I dont know if those players were even availible or not.

[Caddy]

Too much Florida love. Patrick Robinson shouldn't be taken that high. His ninconsistencies and non-tackling ways will make him NOT a Buccaneer. Then like the original poster, you completely disregarded DE, which we wouldn't need to draft any DBs if we had a half-decent pass rush. Anybody would be better, (Ghee, Cook, Murphy, etc).


And seriously... you like Spikes that much? We can get him with one of our 4 7th round picks.. but I gotta warn you, It'll be a wasted pick. Beyond slow, this guy is not fluid or athletic enough to play LB in the T-2. You suggest we take our fastest LB (Black-who is possibly the fastest LB in the NFL) with somebody that would probably be the slowest in the league. You say that Morris wouldn't ask him to drop back deep... wouldn't that be a major weakness then? Spikes willl go either UDFA or in round 7... here's why:

#1 He's a 2 down run stopper that will likely only project to teams running the 3-4. He's a far slower version of Brandon Siler who lasted until round 7 a few years back despite all the UF homer love.

#2 He can't really cover anybody or any amount of ground and the NFL is about speed. 5.05 40 only cuts it if the guy's hand is on the ground.

#3 He's too slow to even play special teams. Teams put their fastest players on the coverage units and Spikes would be slower than all the other LBs and TEs and most of the DEs...so if he were drafted he would be expected to start from day 1 because backup LBs in the NFL almost always play special teams.



DE is not something you can just address some other time... it is IMPORTANT! We have 3 in-house candidates to take over at RT (Dotson, Zuttah, Penn-if we go LT in the first 2 rounds).

McCoy has a huge bust factor and Suh might be pretty good, but neither is going to make the pass rush 10X better, they are one guy. One piece of the puzzle, a puzzle that needs... pieces!

Address the pass rush early and often.

To be fair if you looked at the order of the draft you would have realised that there was very little value at the DE position and we had to go BPA.

By the time it got to our first 2nd rounder the top six ends were gone and reaching on Wootton would have been a fail. DE is a need, but if the value isn't there you shouldn't reach for a sub par player.

[bigfreak314]

yo caddy or MLR what is the mock draft under in Fantasy Section?

[Caddy]

It's got it's own separate 'Forum Mock' Sub Section which is at the top of the page.

[Me Likey Rookies]

brasho-

1. Patrick Robinson would be tremendous value in the middle of the 2nd. I am not sure where you are getting his "non-tackling ways" from but he is a willing tackler. He is inconsistent but the talent is there and I trust Raheem to develop him as a starter opposite Talib (so he would always get the #2 WR).

2. Like Caddy said, you can't take a DE if the value is not there. Griffen and Hughes could very likely be off the board by #35 and I don't want to risk taking a bust like Dunlap or Wooton (I like Wooton but the injury from a year ago makes me very uneasy/he was not the same his senior year).

3. Spikes will not go in the 7th round. He will go in the 3rd or 4th, maybe the 2nd to a 3-4 team. I don't care about the time that he ran a straight line for 40 yards in, watch his Junior tape to see how good he is. He was bothered with an injury his entire Senior season.

How would I use him? As a run stuffer on 1st and 2nd down and as an edge rusher on 3rd. We are moving away from traditional tampa 2 to more experimental stuff with zone coverage. I do not think that Ruud is in Raheem's long term plan.

4. What does Quincy Black's track speed have to do with anything? On the football field, Geno Hayes is the fastest LB.

5. Yes we need to add pieces but at good value in the draft. The DE value free falls after the 1st round, while the WR and CB value stays high. Add the pieces of DT, WR, CB, LB this year and add the pieces of DE, S, WR next year.

[Caddy]

I'm still not interested at all in Spikes. I can't see him fitting into our defense at all. He'd struggle as an ILB in any 4-3 scheme.

[brasho]

Maybe you missed this on Spikes:

#1 He's a 2 down run stopper that will likely only project to teams running the 3-4. He's a far slower version of Brandon Siler who lasted until round 7 a few years back despite all the UF homer love.

#2 He can't really cover anybody or any amount of ground and the NFL is about speed. 5.05 40 only cuts it if the guy's hand is on the ground.

#3 He's too slow to even play special teams. Teams put their fastest players on the coverage units and Spikes would be slower than all the other LBs and TEs and most of the DEs...so if he were drafted he would be expected to start from day 1 because backup LBs in the NFL almost always play special teams.


You can put on the junior tape all you want... but the fact is that right now he is s-s-s-l-o-o-o-w-w-w and he has never been fast enough to play the T-2 or any experimental whatever it is you just made up. EVERY coordinator of the T-2 has had their own variation of it... but one thing that has never changed is having guys that can run at EVERY position (except CB).... Spikes will not be a Buc, a Viking, a Panther, a Colt or pretty much any other team that has a scheme where they need fast LBs (Eagles, Titans, etc).


#1 I stand by my Robinson comments-he's not a good tackler and it's because he isn't as physical as he needs to be... there are far more physical CBs available that don't have the major problems with inconsistencies either.

#2 I never saw that Hughes and Griffen weren't available... addressing DE should be a priority but I haven't seen the rest of the picks.

#3 I doubt Ruud is in the longterm plans as well, but I would like to see what Ruud can do with two above average DTs in front of him and at least an average pair of DEs as well. Regardless, his replacement is definitely NOT Spikes.... tell you what we'll have a wager, if Spikes goes in round 2 (the earliest you said he would go) you win, if he goes after round 4( the latest you said he would go), I win. I have a strong feeling that he will go the way of other heralded LBs that ran extremely poorly and went undrafted or in round 7 (Ali Highsmith, Rufus Alexander, Earl Everrett, Jon Abbate, and Kai Parham).

[brasho]

Oh yeah, #4... Quincy Black's speed... has a lot to do with his potential. Geno Hayes appears to be faster because he is quicker to diagnose and because he is playing the WILL and not battling the TE on every snap. If Quincy "gets it" he will be a monster. His athleticism is 2nd to none in the league.

as for #5 that's all the more reason to trade down later in the 1st to get a DE because the DTs are so abundant later. It isn't a huge priority to grab a CB before round 3, anyways, Barber, Abraham, and Dwight Smith were all 3rd rounders and we can definitely find a good T-2 CB in this draft in round 3.

[Captain Fear]

Oh yeah, #4... Quincy Black's speed... has a lot to do with his potential. Geno Hayes appears to be faster because he is quicker to diagnose and because he is playing the WILL and not battling the TE on every snap. If Quincy "gets it" he will be a monster. His athleticism is 2nd to none in the league.

as for #5 that's all the more reason to trade down later in the 1st to get a DE because the DTs are so abundant later. It isn't a huge priority to grab a CB before round 3, anyways, Barber, Abraham, and Dwight Smith were all 3rd rounders and we can definitely find a good T-2 CB in this draft in round 3.

What do you think are the chances of Quincy Black being able to replace Ruud at MLB if he left? If memory serves correct, i think Black played MLB in College. I like his speed at that position in the T-2, and think he could have Sheldon Quarles like success there. I would also prefer seeing Ruud's potential replacement having some NFL experience, since MLB requires a firm grasp of the playbook and leadership qualities. That's not something I would rely on a rookie for.

As for #5, I don't agree that finding good T-2 CBs late in the draft necessarily applies to today's reality. This used to work when we were the only team sporting the T-2, but now a lot of teams use it as their base defence, and other teams incorporate it in their scheme. Therefore, these scheme CBs are in more of a demand and naturally have to be drafted earlier than they did in the past. The same went for OLB/DE tweeners. These players used to slip later in the draft. Now that a lot of teams use the 3-4, these guys are going way earlier. Same applies to T-2 CBs, just not as drastically.

[Caddy]

Black played a Hyrbid S/LB position in college so I really wouldn't compare the two. The New Mexico defense is nothing like a pro defense and I seriously doubt he can play inside for us.

[Captain Fear]

Black played a Hyrbid S/LB position in college so I really wouldn't compare the two. The New Mexico defense is nothing like a pro defense and I seriously doubt he can play inside for us.

Why? Isn't a S/LB Hybrid exactly what a MLB in the T-2 is? I'm sure the version he was playing in New Mexico was completely different, but it shows he does have the range and coverage to make it work.

[Caddy]

Why? Isn't a S/LB Hybrid exactly what a MLB in the T-2 is? I'm sure the version he was playing in New Mexico was completely different, but it shows he does have the range and coverage to make it work.

Not really. I mean, Black can cover and all. But I just don't think he can shed blocks well enough to play inside. Plus his speed makes him an intriguing blitzing option on the outside. His tackling ability also concerns me.

[brasho]

What do you think are the chances of Quincy Black being able to replace Ruud at MLB if he left? If memory serves correct, i think Black played MLB in College. I like his speed at that position in the T-2, and think he could have Sheldon Quarles like success there. I would also prefer seeing Ruud's potential replacement having some NFL experience, since MLB requires a firm grasp of the playbook and leadership qualities. That's not something I would rely on a rookie for.

As for #5, I don't agree that finding good T-2 CBs late in the draft necessarily applies to today's reality. This used to work when we were the only team sporting the T-2, but now a lot of teams use it as their base defence, and other teams incorporate it in their scheme. Therefore, these scheme CBs are in more of a demand and naturally have to be drafted earlier than they did in the past. The same went for OLB/DE tweeners. These players used to slip later in the draft. Now that a lot of teams use the 3-4, these guys are going way earlier. Same applies to T-2 CBs, just not as drastically.

I like Black's ability to run and hit and get down the seam... his instincts and playing in space I'm not really sold on.


As for #5, when we were finding some good T-2 CBs in the past, we were one of a small handful of teams running the T-2... flash forward to today and we are back to being a small handful of T-2 heavy teams. Teams generally want a CB that CAN play man2man for an entire game if they had to... it is nearly impossible to find but teams are sure that those CBs can't be running 4.55+ which drops those players' values which drops them in the draft which makes them ideal fits for the T-2. Guys like Javier Arenas would never fit in a man heavy scheme like in Philly or Tennessee, but he could be a real playmaker for us and could drop as low as round 4 due to size and speed concerns.

[brasho]

Not really. I mean, Black can cover and all. But I just don't think he can shed blocks well enough to play inside. Plus his speed makes him an intriguing blitzing option on the outside. His tackling ability also concerns me.

He has to shed more blocks playing the Sam than the Mike in our system. It is his open field tackling that I'm not sold on.

[brasho]

Black played a Hyrbid S/LB position in college so I really wouldn't compare the two. The New Mexico defense is nothing like a pro defense and I seriously doubt he can play inside for us.

Black played the exact same position that Urlacher did for the Lobos...and he turned out okay, I think. The big difference is that instead of 3-5 yards off the ball, the Lobo plays about 7 off the ball.

[Caddy]

He has to shed more blocks playing the Sam than the Mike in our system. It is his open field tackling that I'm not sold on.

He will get lost in the crap heap that is our interior D-Line more than Ruud does.

Black played the exact same position that Urlacher did for the Lobos...and he turned out okay, I think. The big difference is that instead of 3-5 yards off the ball, the Lobo plays about 7 off the ball.

Don't ever compare Quincy to Brian. They played the same position sure, but it's like comparing Tom Brady to Brian Griese; Both played at the same school, but are completely different players.

[KennyG]

Um, I'm not opposed to taking 2 wr's in the 2nd round, but I am not a fan of taking Golden Tate. I think he is going to be a good player in the slot and right now, Thats where I see Sammie Stroughter playing. If Demaryous Thomas is there at 35, he HAS TO BE THE PICK! Then at 42, I would love to see us draft Damien Williams. We get a deep threat and a solid route runner and possession WR, then we could get a CB and DE with the next 2 pciks.

I have the total opposite take on Golden Tate, I think he can be a number 1. He's got the speed and hands, plays WAY bigger then his height. Last year he had a lot of catches out jumping the defenders. He's exactly the type of WR I want on this team, the Steve Smith comparisons are right on I think.
If we did go with 2 WRs in round two Tate with Benn/Thomas/D.Williams would have a lot of potential to be a great tandem. I think there is just to many decent WRs that will be available in rounds 3 and 4 to pick two WRs in round 2 though..

[KennyG]

We havn't showed any interest in Tate from what others have said so maybe he's not on the Buc's radar... I can see it being Benn in the 2nd and then Mike Williams in the 4/5th...