Anybody have any updates on Dez Bryant's pro day?

[superman]

seems like people on here either love him or hate him. as a fins fan, i want him at 12. must prove he's in shape and run a 4.5 though.

[TACKLE]

Just a prediction but Dez is going to kill it at his workout. Don't be surprised if he runs sub 4.45.

[Oaktown1981]

Adam_Schefter

Initial reports on Dez Bryant's 40-yard dash are not encouraging. One scout in attendance texted that Bryant clocked an unconfirmed 4.57

[superman]

Someone said on twitter he ran in the 4.3's last week.. If he does he will make himself lots of coin.

i don't think he'll run that, but if he does he'll be long gone by 12. probably gone by 4.

[superman]

Adam_Schefter

Initial reports on Dez Bryant's 40-yard dash are not encouraging. One scout in attendance texted that Bryant clocked an unconfirmed 4.57

not discouraging though. that's what was expected.

[AkiliSmith]

Damn 4.57, maybe there is a chance he drops to the Bengals

[619]

Thomas > Bryant

[LonghornsLegend]

Please come to Dallas Dez.

[TACKLE]

Just a prediction but Dez is going to kill it at his workout. Don't be surprised if he runs sub 4.45.

I instantly regret this decision. lol.

But seriously, 4.57. Not good at all.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Damn 4.57, maybe there is a chance he drops to the Bengals

LOL..I was thinking the same...bring it on

[scpanther22]

If he drops far..then I could see the panthers trading up to get him.

[RealityCheck]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/big-names-come-out-for-bryants-big-day/

Packers are there...

But I guess it's for Cox.

[FrankGore]

not discouraging though. that's what was expected.

I dunno about that. There were reports saying he clocked in the 4.3s last week supposedly. He did post a 38 inch vert and he's a bigger WR, but I think a lot of people were expecting better.

http://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero/status/11319035896

He's not going to tumble down into the end of 1st or anything, but I could see him getting into the early teens.

[RWills]

yeah, a 4.57 for a supposed top 10 is not good, where are all the people chimming in the sub 4.4's

EDIT:
Of course this is why they should run the 40's in pads

[LonghornsLegend]

To be honest, had Crabtree ran I don't think he would of ran a time that much different from a mid 4.5 anyway. That's not really a knock for guys who play WR and have a game like Bryant, Crabtree, Marshall, Boldin etc, if your expected to be a speed WR and making a living running deep routes and fades like DHB and Desean Jackson then that time hurts you.


Otherwise, what these guys do, and their strengths, a mid 4.5 40 doesn't affect them. But people always overreact to 40 times even if they say they don't and they'll start to question how good a guy is.


I was never under the belief that Crabs would of ran a 4.4 anything, pro day or combine.

[RealityCheck]

From: An average Patriots fan
To: Dez Bryant

Fall to #22, please.

Thanks in advance.

[superman]

To be honest, had Crabtree ran I don't think he would of ran a time that much different from a mid 4.5 anyway. That's not really a knock for guys who play WR and have a game like Bryant, Crabtree, Marshall, Boldin etc, if your expected to be a speed WR and making a living running deep routes and fades like DHB and Desean Jackson then that time hurts you.


Otherwise, what these guys do, and their strengths, a mid 4.5 40 doesn't affect them. But people always overreact to 40 times even if they say they don't and they'll start to question how good a guy is.


I was never under the belief that Crabs would of ran a 4.4 anything, pro day or combine.

this. he's a poor mans fitz. which is not a knock. 4.5 should never hurt a wr unless they're 5'10 190

[RWills]

I would like to see is triangle numbers and heard on Sirius he dropped a few in the begining

[keylime_5]

am i the only one who expected a 4.5 out of him. I must admit my hopes did go up when i heard he ran a 4.32 in practice runs. they said his times were 4.57, 4.68, and 4.52.

[bigfreak314]

Please come to Dallas Dez.

OMG I would become a Dallas Fan again.

Dez + Austin + Crayton = DC Nightmare³

[V.I.P]

Bryant will still go top 20. If he's still around in the late we better trade back in the first for him.

[LonghornsLegend]

OMG I would become a Dallas Fan again.

Dez + Austin + Ogletree = DC Nightmare³

Fixed :D


But this workout confirms he shouldn't be drafted in the top 10, maybe not even Miami at #12, but I think he'll be there in the late teens, early 20's, and might entice a team to trade up for him.


A team like Cincy, NE, Dallas where he wouldn't be asked to step in as the #1 WR right away like Mia would be perfect for him, and let him develop at his own pace.

[EndZoneDB]

Did people really expect him to run much faster than a 4.5? He is 220 lbs, and it's pretty rare for someone to have that kind of speed at that weight.

Gil Brandt is reporting it was a 4.52 and then a 4.68, so he ran a 3rd at 4.52. No one is sure what happened with the 2nd run.

I don't think that is going to drop his stock much.

I think teams either really liked him, or they really didn't. This will either confirm to teams that want him to take him. I don't think it will make teams that didn't like him change their minds.

[FUNBUNCHER]

I'd rather have Demaryus(?) Thomas.

I hate #1 WRs who run slow, Fitz and Brandon Marshall notwithstanding.

Dez Bryant is smaller than Fitz and Marshall, physically he's more like Boldin. Does he have their game??

I think Dez just punched himself a ticket for the mid 20s.

[Da-Phins]

Dear Bill Parcells,

Please do something you dont normally do and draft Bryant 12th overall. He will give us something that we havent had in a long time.

Sign,

All the Dolphins fans

[Babylon]

I'd rather have Demaryus(?) Thomas.

I hate #1 WRs who run slow, Fitz and Brandon Marshall notwithstanding.

Dez Bryant is smaller than Fitz and Marshall, physically he's more like Boldin. Does he have their game??

I think Dez just punched himself a ticket for the mid 20s.

Dont assume Thomas is any faster. You would have to think supply and demand would get at least one WR drafted in the top 20 but not necessarily. I think the group has some real depth but lacks a star at the top, sort of like the OT crop.

[bigfreak314]

whats the big knock on 4.52? That could be from a bad start getting off the block or running too high when he first gets out of his stance or being off balanced.

Anybody think Crabtree would have fun faster?

[TheSlinger]

whats the big knock on 4.52?

He's supposed to be a gamebreaking elite WR. He's had nothing to do for months but train for this. This wasn't a combine run, it was at his pro day. What do you think he would've run on the slower combine track with just a couple of months to prepare? 4.6+? I think he needed better. With reports that he was out of shape recently, the laziness rumours that leaked out around the combinem, showing up at Pacman's workout, and now this mediocre 40 time it hasn't been a good offseason for Dez.

[RWills]

11-1 Broad with 38" Vert, thats good explosion

[scpanther22]

Reports say Bryant forgot his cleats
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/dez-bryant-forgot-his-cleats/

[Dark Knight01]

Dez Bryant forgot his cleats
Posted by Mike Florio on March 30, 2010 3:01 PM ET
As it turns out, Oklahoma State receiver Dez Bryant showed up on time for his Pro Day workout.

His cleats, however, didn’t make the trip.

We’re told that Bryant forgot to bring his cleats, and that as a result he had to wear a pair of brand-new shoes, which had not properly been broken in.

As a result, Bryant was slipping, as NFLN’s Mike Mayock pointed out when discussing the workout on the air.

Per a league source, at least one team measured Bryant’s times in the 40-yard dash at 4.57 and 4.62 seconds, within the 4.52 to 4.68 range reported by NFL.com. He presumably would have run faster, but for the slipping.

——————————————————-




^^^^^^^^^
WEIRD beyond belief!

Something tells me Dez does NOT want to be drafted within the top ten picks and let up on this workout so his stock would fall out of the top ten…..so he can go to a better football team in the middle of the round with picks between 10-20 range.

How can this guy forget his cleats during an important Pro Day private workout that has been scheduled for months??

Smells fishy to me!

[Dark Knight01]

Straight Line 40 Times Are Overrated!!

[FUNBUNCHER]

Just thought he would run better than that. He may still have the ability to get deep in the NFL, but if I'm thinking about drafting a WR in the top 15, I expect there to be something really 'special' about him from a physical standpoint, whether it's height, length, or speed.

That 11 foot broad jump is impressive, but I'm less sure that Bryant has 'future NFL superstar' written on his jersey anymore.

EDIT: Forgot his cleats!!??

It's not like he's packing a suitcase to bring with him on his pro day!! Dez seems like a flake a little bit to me.

Still, if he was truly FAST, wearing another pair of new shoes isn't going to add .15 seconds to his 40.
The kid just isn't a burner. No crime. But not a top 10 pick anymore either.

[bitonti]

4.6 is a great time... for a linebacker

[thebow305]

Just thought he would run better than that. He may still have the ability to get deep in the NFL, but if I'm thinking about drafting a WR in the top 15, I expect there to be something really 'special' about him from a physical standpoint, whether it's height, length, or speed.

That 11 foot broad jump is impressive, but I'm less sure that Bryant has 'future NFL superstar' written on his jersey anymore.

EDIT: Forgot his cleats!!??

It's not like he's packing a suitcase to bring with him on his pro day!! Dez seems like a flake a little bit to me.

Still, if he was truly FAST, wearing another pair of new shoes isn't going to add .15 seconds to his 40.
The kid just isn't a burner. No crime. But not a top 10 pick anymore either.

Yeah, I agree. Every new report that comes out just makes him look worse and worse. I'd love to have him in Miami, but this is just ridiculous. He "forgot his cleats"?? Either this is complete BS, or he is a complete idiot forgetting his cleats on arguably the biggest day of his life. Something is just VERY off with this kid.

[no bare feet]

Film > 40s. :)
i'd stil take him before any other receiver in this class

[golota]

4.6 is a great time... for a linebacker

Makes Riley Cooper look like a pretty good fourth rounder seeing as how he is bigger and faster than Bryant and carrries fewer character concerns.

Bryant could be an absolute bust and definitely a big question mark paying a guy like that millions in guaranteed money.

[superman]

the crabtree effect will help dez. he looks like a better prospect and crabtree tore it up without any training camp and holding out half year. hes also bigger and if not faster, at least the same speed.

if both were in the same draft and had the same offseason as each have had, who would u take 1st?

plus, 11+ broad jump is a very good sign hes explosive. explosiveness is probably the single most important factor in determining how good of an athlete someone is because its all about natural fast twitch fibers

[Halsey]

Bryant forgot his cleats? Why is there always stuff like this happening at pro days?

"such and such player ran and such and such time, but reports out of such and such campus say that new grass was recently laid down and it was causing players to have an allergic reactions which may have affected thier workouts"

It's like workouts can't just be workouts anymore. There's always got to be some footnote that brings up questions about the legitimacy of measurements.

[Thumper]

I called it in the other thread, he isn't responsible (he forgot his cleats for a proday he set up) and I said he would run a 4.5 or 4.6 and according to Gil Brandt he ran a 4.58, 4.68 and a 4.58 on three attempts.

[Babylon]

Makes Riley Cooper look like a pretty good fourth rounder seeing as how he is bigger and faster than Bryant and carrries fewer character concerns.

Bryant could be an absolute bust and definitely a big question mark paying a guy like that millions in guaranteed money.

Cooper is a major steal if he lasts till the 4th.

You sort of bring up a point there about how some get a pass when they do less than what was expected when others dont. Case in point a Sam Bradord sits out the year and his stock goes up, when others like Gronkowski and Gresham dont get the benefit of the doubt.

[superman]

is riley for sure going to do football instead of baseball? or is he waiting to see who drafts him?

[DraftBreakdown]

Not that it means much, but I'm pretty sure the last WR to run a sub 4.5 and go top 20 was Mike Williams (although Crabtree might have).

RR

[baronzeus]

Wow, he could fall to the Bengals. Dream come true if it happens.

[baronzeus]

Not that it means much, but I'm pretty sure the last WR to run a sub 4.5 and go top 20 was Mike Williams (although Crabtree might have).

RR

Ted Ginn Jr? Thought he ran like a 4.3

[Halsey]

I think he means last to run slower than 4.50.

[superman]

Not that it means much, but I'm pretty sure the last WR to run a sub 4.5 and go top 20 was Mike Williams (although Crabtree might have).

RR

do you mean 4.5 +

[Dark Knight01]

Not that it means much, but I'm pretty sure the last WR to run a sub 4.5 and go top 20 was Mike Williams (although Crabtree might have).

RR






Huh? Larry Fitz ran in the 4.53 range and was a top 5 pick!

[Dark Knight01]

NewsBreak:

Straight Line 40 Times Are Overrated!!

[JFLO]

Completely agree that 40 times are vastly overrated, but this is going to drop his stock from a consensus standpoint. Draftniks and "scouts" are infatuated with straight line speed, especially in today's game, so his stock is going to drop.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of Bryant. He's a tremendous overall athlete and has great body control, but I think the game has come to easy to him in some aspects and he'll have more of a transition at the next level than most people perceive. I think his "character concerns" are overrated too. He's not a Terrell Owens or OchoCinco ego, but I think a team will have to put their foot on his throat once they draft him.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Atlanta please.

[RealityCheck]

Here in Foxborough you can play barefoot. Means you're damn welcome here, Dez.

[jriles0522]

Ill take him on the Browns at 7, no hesitation. Did you see the guy, he's a beast. 4.5 big fing deal. Throw pads on the guy, he's a natural athlete. His splits were great, 11-1 broad jump is insane, 38 vert is awesome too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sXYiZjT038

[JFLO]

There was something on ESPN.com today, on the rumors part, that if Seattle can't land Brandon Marshall before the draft, then they would look at picking up Bryant with the sixth pick. If I were them, I would trade the sixth and land a the 10 or 11 spot to pick him up.

[scpanther22]

Atlanta please.

lol..He wont make it that far.

[Razor]

lol..He wont make it that far.

Why not? He forgot his damn shoes for the most important workout of his life and he seemed unprepared for the short shuttle and 3-cone drill. It just shows that he doesn't get it. If I were a GM I wouldn't touch him in the top 25.

[Babylon]

is riley for sure going to do football instead of baseball? or is he waiting to see who drafts him?

He said he's totally committed to baseball. I guess if he were to fail at that he could always try the little white ball route but as of now it's football.

As for the whole Bryant thing i like how any character issues/workout times seem to be unanimously overlooked. I think that strategy can get you in trouble but someone will take him early.

[P-L]

I don't these times were awful for Bryant, but there is no way to spin this positively either. He probably kissed the top ten goodbye. I think he still goes between 10-20, just because he's the only top talent at receiver. He's lucky he was hurt at the combine, or he would've ran a 4.60+ for sure.

[Babylon]

I don't these times were awful for Bryant, but there is no way to spin this positively either. He probably kissed the top ten goodbye. I think he still goes between 10-20, just because he's the only top talent at receiver. He's lucky he was hurt at the combine, or he would've ran a 4.60+ for sure.

I guess he couldnt pull a Calvin Johnson and run a great time without the right shoes.

[MizzouBig12]

Forgets his shoes, doesn't prepare/isn't ready for the short shuttle and 3-cone, runs a bad time (or 3), was suspended almost the entire season, is late to virtually every meeting ever, has to have a coach pick him up special, so that he actually makes it to a GAME on time. Yeah, he's not a head case, he's a top 10 pick!

[superman]

I guess he couldnt pull a Calvin Johnson and run a great time without the right shoes.

i'm not completely sure calvin johnson is human

[Babylon]

Forgets his shoes, doesn't prepare/isn't ready for the short shuttle and 3-cone, runs a bad time (or 3), was suspended almost the entire season, is late to virtually every meeting ever, has to have a coach pick him up special, so that he actually makes it to a GAME on time. Yeah, he's not a head case, he's a top 10 pick!

Sounds like he's ready for the NFL.

[batsandgats]

is riley for sure going to do football instead of baseball? or is he waiting to see who drafts him?

yes he definetly doing football, hes said that in quite a few interviews, that Football is his main passion.

[superman]

i just now watched the video on nfl.com

he looks impressive at 220+, not out of shape at all. i know there were questions of that before.

[Cicero]

There was something on ESPN.com today, on the rumors part, that if Seattle can't land Brandon Marshall before the draft, then they would look at picking up Bryant with the sixth pick. If I were them, I would trade the sixth and land a the 10 or 11 spot to pick him up.

If we can't work out a trade for Marshall before the draft and are going to spend the 6th pick on Dez, why wouldn't we just sign Marshall to an offer sheet?

[superman]

yes he definetly doing football, hes said that in quite a few interviews, that Football is his main passion.

i wonder if that's just the smart thing to say pre draft

isn't he already on a baseball team, just the nfl draft happens before he has to show up to their camp?

[Prowler]

what happened to all that training with deion stuff? if you get suspended, you might as well finish and learn how to run a 40. he's still going to be good and his ball skills will allow him to stretch defenses.

[ThePudge]

Are people really making a big deal out of Dez forgetting his shoes? No one seemed to mind when Calvin borrowed shoes & admitted to marijuana use at the NFL Combine. That's because it wasn't a big deal. Forgetting shoes =/= headcase. The guy has a ton on his plate... this whole "If I were a GM I wouldn't touch him in the Top ___" is ********. Guy misses a meeting? Fine him. He misses a practice? Suspend him. This is going to be the man's career, not only his passion & just knowing the background he's come from I doubt he blows it..

Still a Top 10 value to me and one of the draft's elite talents. He shouldn't get out of the Top 14 for any reason.

[D-Unit]

Jerry Jones wined and dined him. Expect fireworks on draft day peeps! :D

[BaLLiN]

Dear Dez Bryant,

please slap Jerry Jones in the face and tell him to stop dreaming he'll get you, also drop to 15 so the giants can sell you to the highest bidder, thanks.

From Ballin

[batsandgats]

i wonder if that's just the smart thing to say pre draft

isn't he already on a baseball team, just the nfl draft happens before he has to show up to their camp?

no, he really is committed to football. The Rangers drafted him before the 09 season and he decided to play football at UF instead. This year they still wanted him and he basically voided his contract. He could have picked up half of his signing bonus on January 17th and was supposed to get a physical during that time and he told them no thanks.

I think the minor league camp he was supposed to attend was the beginning of this March.

He wasn't that great of a baseball player anyway. He is much better at football.

I mean I guess there is still a possibility of him playing baseball in the future but probably only if he fails in the NFL, but Im pretty sure he burned his bridges with the Rangers. He would have to find another team.

[dolphinfan2k5]

Are people really making a big deal out of Dez forgetting his shoes? No one seemed to mind when Calvin borrowed shoes & admitted to marijuana use at the NFL Combine. That's because it wasn't a big deal. Forgetting shoes =/= headcase. The guy has a ton on his plate... this whole "If I were a GM I wouldn't touch him in the Top ___" is ********. Guy misses a meeting? Fine him. He misses a practice? Suspend him. This is going to be the man's career, not only his passion & just knowing the background he's come from I doubt he blows it..

Still a Top 10 value to me and one of the draft's elite talents. He shouldn't get out of the Top 14 for any reason.

IIRC, Calvin Johnson didn't forget shoes, he just wasn't planning to run. Then he changed his mind so he borrowed shoes.

[RaidersInYoFace]

Word is Jerry Jones is gonna make a move with his good friend Al Davis and move up to#8 and take the Dez

[Thumper]

Are people really making a big deal out of Dez forgetting his shoes? No one seemed to mind when Calvin borrowed shoes & admitted to marijuana use at the NFL Combine. That's because it wasn't a big deal. Forgetting shoes =/= headcase. The guy has a ton on his plate... this whole "If I were a GM I wouldn't touch him in the Top ___" is ********. Guy misses a meeting? Fine him. He misses a practice? Suspend him. This is going to be the man's career, not only his passion & just knowing the background he's come from I doubt he blows it..

Still a Top 10 value to me and one of the draft's elite talents. He shouldn't get out of the Top 14 for any reason.

No. Calvin Johnson didn't plan on running the 40 and he decided to go ahead and do it at the last second, Dez Bryant had been planning this for about a month and still forgot his cleats. To me it screams flakey and irresponsible to forget something as simple as your shoes. Plus pretty much everyone smokes weed so it isn't really a problem. (http://cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/03/24/NFL-Personnel-Men-Concerned-Marijuana-Epidemic-Draft-Class)
"Marijuana use is almost epidemic, with more guys having tested positive for marijuana at some point in their college background than I can ever remember,'' said a longtime team personnel man. "It's almost as if we are having to figure out a new way to evaluate it as part of the character and background report, because it's so prevalent. There're enough instances of it that it's hard to know how to set your board. You can't throw out that many guys. You have to go case-by-case and do your homework on them.''

And you think because he had a hard life growing up that he will succeed? That's all the more reason to NOT succeed. He is an unmotivated and immature player, what do you think he is going to do when he comes into more money than he could've ever imagined making as a child and all he had to do was play a game and then he gets suspended and STILL makes more than every other receiver in his class. How do you think a player like Dez will respond to that? I promise you it won't be positive. There are so many cases of players having rough up bringings and busting when they get to the NFL. This is most definitely the case as many scholars have pointed out, poverty is a cycle, Ruby K. Payne in her book A Framework for Understanding Poverty said that "One aspect of generational poverty is a learned helplessness that is passed from parents to children and on down the line. This learned helplessness can be explained as the ideology that there is no way for one to get out of poverty and so in order to make the best of their situation one must live in the moment and experience what they can when they can. This leads to people spending money right as they get it"

And you can point out all these cases where it isn't true, but I can tell you that these people who come from extreme poverty and have a rough upbringing have failed more often than they have succeeded.

And I know there are a lot of concerns about his passion for the game because he certainly has an odd way of showing it. If he loved the game so much why did he screw up his workouts? His 3 cone drill would've been third worst at the combine. He didn't prepare for his workout adequately and it showed, how does being suspended for the season and then doing little to prepare for the next level show passion for the game?

And your theory of suspending and fining him often is terrible, does fining him and suspending him make missing practices and meetings any better? When you draft a guy, you're investing a lot in him and do you really want to draft a guy you're going to have to babysit and monitor at all times? Do you really want a guy that you're afraid you're going to have to suspend and fine him often? Its dumb, yeah you can do those things but does that make his character concerns any less significant?

[ThePudge]

No. Calvin Johnson didn't plan on running the 40 and he decided to go ahead and do it at the last second, Dez Bryant had been planning this for about a month and still forgot his cleats. To me it screams flakey and irresponsible to forget something as simple as your shoes. Plus pretty much everyone smokes weed so it isn't really a problem. (http://cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/03/24/NFL-Personnel-Men-Concerned-Marijuana-Epidemic-Draft-Class)


And you think because he had a hard life growing up that he will succeed? That's all the more reason to NOT succeed. He is an unmotivated and immature player, what do you think he is going to do when he comes into more money than he could've ever imagined making as a child and all he had to do was play a game and then he gets suspended and STILL makes more than every other receiver in his class. How do you think a player like Dez will respond to that? I promise you it won't be positive. There are so many cases of players having rough up bringings and busting when they get to the NFL. This is most definitely the case as many scholars have pointed out, poverty is a cycle, Ruby K. Payne in her book A Framework for Understanding Poverty said that

And you can point out all these cases where it isn't true, but I can tell you that these people who come from extreme poverty and have a rough upbringing have failed more often than they have succeeded.

And I know there are a lot of concerns about his passion for the game because he certainly has an odd way of showing it. If he loved the game so much why did he screw up his workouts? His 3 cone drill would've been third worst at the combine. He didn't prepare for his workout adequately and it showed, how does being suspended for the season and then doing little to prepare for the next level show passion for the game?

And your theory of suspending and fining him often is terrible, does fining him and suspending him make missing practices and meetings any better? When you draft a guy, you're investing a lot in him and do you really want to draft a guy you're going to have to babysit and monitor at all times? Do you really want a guy that you're afraid you're going to have to suspend and fine him often? Its dumb, yeah you can do those things but does that make his character concerns any less significant?

I know Calvin borrowed shoes, I was just referring to the fact that simple things (like weed) didn't factor in anyone's idea of him. Obviously I don't believe marijuana is a big deal.. since August there have been only six days in which I haven't smoked at least once. Though for me it has led to an arrest, a damaged work-ethic, and a lack of motivation. Still trying to find that perfect balance.

We've been through this before, I just don't think his character is going to ruin him as football is now his job. It's the only thing Dez can really do at this point. With age & money, and responsibility, I expect him to grow into himself though I wouldn't be shocked to see him receive a couple fines early on. I worry more about lazy players that don't have a passion for football, Bryant has that passion & it's been documented all over the place.

The guy is still one of this draft's elite talents, though questions about his maturity/work-ethic could push him down the board.... all the way to about 14 or so. Nothing changed for me just because he forgot his shoes, still a likely 7-14 pick on draft day, when one of us will be right and the otehr will be wrong.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Top 10 pick = minimal question marks.

Pudge, part of the reason people have brought up the fact that Dez forgot his cleats to his OWN private workout is because it was offered up as an excuse about why he ran so poorly.
From a psychological standpoint, Dez in a way reminds me of former 49ers WR Antonio Bryant.
Right now I'm afraid once you put a few mil into his account, Dez will think he's made the pro bowl already.

USC TE Fred Davis overslept and was late to ONE TC his rookie year and the local media in D.C. rode him for the next 12 months like the kid was a bum.

As of right now, I have questions about how long it takes Dez to learn what it means to be a 'professional' in the most basic sense of the word; being where you're supposed to be ON TIME.

I see Dez having a long adjustment period to life in the NFL, good luck to whoever drafts him.

[ThePudge]

Top 10 pick = minimal question marks.

Pudge, part of the reason people have brought up the fact that Dez forgot his cleats to his OWN private workout is because it was offered up as an excuse about why he ran so poorly.
From a psychological standpoint, Dez in a way reminds me of former 49ers WR Antonio Bryant.
Right now I'm afraid once you put a few mil into his account, Dez will think he's made the pro bowl already.

USC TE Fred Davis overslept and was late to ONE TC his rookie year and the local media in D.C. rode him for the next 12 months like the kid was a bum.

As of right now, I have questions about how long it takes Dez to learn what it means to be a 'professional' in the most basic sense of the word; being where you're supposed to be ON TIME.

I see Dez having a long adjustment period to life in the NFL, good luck to whoever drafts him.

I understand the concerns, sometimes you just have to have some confidence in your gut instinct. On the field he's an elite competitor. He doesn't take plays off, he works hard to prepare, and most importantly all he has is football, which is his greatest passion in life. Dez is just an absolute monster on the field & that's what has me and teams like the Cowboys infatuated. Mayock grades him out as a Top 3 talent & I don't disagree. THough he may come with more maturity baggage, he's not far behind Larry Fitzgerald & Andre Johnson as prospects and should warrant consideration as high as 7th Overall despite not playing one of the Top 10's premium positions.

Where he goes from there (after he goes somewhere in the 7-14 range) is dependent on his maturity and what type of coaching/mentorship he gets. His game may take a year or two to adjust, but as I've said, I have a ton on confidence in Bryant.

[Dark Knight01]

Sounds like he's ready for the NFL.






EXACTLY! LOL

[Dark Knight01]

Jerry Jones wined and dined him. Expect fireworks on draft day peeps! :D





A trade with the Raiders for the #8 pick!

[Babylon]

If we can't work out a trade for Marshall before the draft and are going to spend the 6th pick on Dez, why wouldn't we just sign Marshall to an offer sheet?

I dont think Seattle can spend the #6 pick on either of these two guys, too risky.

[scpanther22]

Why not? He forgot his damn shoes for the most important workout of his life and he seemed unprepared for the short shuttle and 3-cone drill. It just shows that he doesn't get it. If I were a GM I wouldn't touch him in the top 25.

Well your not a GM..lol I just dont see him making it that far.

[619]

A trade with the Raiders for the #8 pick!

No joke, there is an unnamed team out there after our pick. Could it be the Cowboys? :rolleyes:

[Thumper]

Hahaha Ryan McCrystal, a draftnik sort of like Scott but less well known said on his twitter account "saw Dez Bryant's interview with Mayock today... painful... the kid can't put three words together to form a sentence."

So he is immature, irresponsible, flakey and now he is stupid? Oh man... I'm telling you guys, he's going to fall. Lets get this straight, he lies to the NCAA, he doesn't take responsiblity for his actions, he missed practices, he missed meetings, his coach had to pick him up for games, he was actually late to games, he is 'injured' at the combine, Oklahoma State doesn't allow him to hold his workout on their campus, he bombs the combine interviews, he forgets his cleats for the most important workout of his life that had been planned for about a month and a half, he seems to have not prepared for his workouts despite having about 6 months to prepare and now he can barely piece together sentences?

Yep... Top 10 player right there.

[Matthew Jones]

Honestly I'm seeing way too much Mike Williams in Dez Bryant. Super productive college receiver but only played two years, had a year off, and has character and laziness questions. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he turned out to be a bust. Last year, Michael Crabtree turned out to be a diva with his whole contract situation, but ended up being a very good player in San Francisco, so I guess there's a chance Bryant turns out similarly good, but aside from his contract (and intelligence) there weren't really any of the same concerns there. I don't think Bryant will end up being my #1 wide receiver come draft day in all honesty.

[D-Unit]

No joke, there is an unnamed team out there after our pick. Could it be the Cowboys? :rolleyes:
It definitely could be. But I think that would only happen if Berry were available.

[ThePudge]

I saw that same interview... Guy's not an intellect, but he was sincere & polite. Pretty much what you'd expect. He'll be off some boards, he'll drop on some, but he'll remain high on others. Still a Top 14 value & I'm praying that I'm wrong and he falls to my Bengals at 21.

[PrimetimeTheDon]

I'm not overly concerned about his 40. Speed is not his game. Size is the thing that keeps bothering me about Dez. A high-pointer who is only 6-2... it's bothered me for over a year, even when I was busy explaining why he was better than Benn and a top 5 prospect before the season started. He's not even 6-3 like Fitz, he's not as bulky as Fitz, and he's not the route runner Fitzy was when he came out. One might say Fitz is an unfair comparison but I disagree, Dez is ranked in many's top 5 and will be compared accordingly.

As for his attitude, Crabtree was aloof last year, took half the year off, and stepped on the field and was a #1 WR day 1. I see the same sort of ability in Dez this year that I saw Crabtree last year. The kid is a baller and unless he's simply not a worker, I think he'll be a very good WR in the NFL for a long time.

[borg9]

Whether it was a ploy to drop him to the Cowboys or just a mistake on his part it's not a big deal. All he has to do is run the 40 some other day, whether or not he chooses to do it will be telling.

[LonghornsLegend]

It definitely could be. But I think that would only happen if Berry were available.

Exactly, that be the only player Jerry would trade up that far for, Dez probably isn't even going in the top 10 anymore so moving up to 8 to take him wouldn't make any sense at all.


I think he'll be there when the 20's roll around, that's about the time you make a move, probably before Cincy.

[Timbathia]

Hahaha Ryan McCrystal, a draftnik sort of like Scott but less well known said on his twitter account "saw Dez Bryant's interview with Mayock today... painful... the kid can't put three words together to form a sentence."

So he is immature, irresponsible, flakey and now he is stupid? Oh man... I'm telling you guys, he's going to fall. Lets get this straight, he lies to the NCAA, he doesn't take responsiblity for his actions, he missed practices, he missed meetings, his coach had to pick him up for games, he was actually late to games, he is 'injured' at the combine, Oklahoma State doesn't allow him to hold his workout on their campus, he bombs the combine interviews, he forgets his cleats for the most important workout of his life that had been planned for about a month and a half, he seems to have not prepared for his workouts despite having about 6 months to prepare and now he can barely piece together sentences?

Yep... Top 10 player right there.

This is why I still cant fathom why people are mocking him to the Broncos (including Scott until the recent mock). McDaniels passed over talent last year to get smart versatile leaders. I just cant believe we will even consider drafting dez.

[619]

I saw the interview and it appeared as if he was more nervous than anything else. I could understand him the entire way, everyone's just looking to nitpick the guy apart. I didn't like the overall workout and I'm sure deep down Dez feels the same way about his performance today. Still, there's something about him, and I don't know what it is, that gives you hope that he'll come through and become a great receiver in the league, even if the transition isn't particularly smooth. There will be bumps in the road and I'm not denying that, just I advise you guys to not give up on him.

[J-Mike88]

OMG I would become a Dallas Fan again.

Dez + Austin + Crayton = DC Nightmare³
Crayton? He's just a guy. LOL

[Legend234]

from the little bit I know about the 40, his form looked bad. He could have definately shaved some time if he cleaned that up. He looked really good in all the drills except one drill where there was an old guy throwing to him from about 10 yards away. The 11'1 broad jump is really impressive. He never really ran past guys at the college level so the speed shouldn't really concern people. His best abilities are his hands, body contol and leaping ability and he showed all of those things. Should be a top ten pick.

[descendency]

I've still got him going 21st to the Bengals (without trades). WRs tend to fall and he's got questionmarks all around him in places that tend to make WRs fall (lacks elite speed, questionable work ethic, questionable character, etc).

I'm not saying he can't be a good player, but I think you're looking at a slightly bigger #85.

[Clarkw267]

IIRC, Calvin Johnson didn't forget shoes, he just wasn't planning to run. Then he changed his mind so he borrowed shoes.

Actually... from what I remember, in a Lions interview, Calvin said that those were his shoes. He had let someone else borrow them to run, and then he got them back so he could run.

Also... Dez Bryant is still a top 10 talent in this draft. 4.5 whatever he ran is good enough for 225. Fitz ran in the 4.5s. Marshall ran in the 4.5s.

The guy is an elite WR prospect. I hope some of your teams pass on him the way you guys bash the guy for forgetting a pair of cleats. Don't cry when he is abusing your teams and putting his cleat up your backdoor....

[Dark Knight01]

I saw the interview and it appeared as if he was more nervous than anything else. I could understand him the entire way, everyone's just looking to nitpick the guy apart. I didn't like the overall workout and I'm sure deep down Dez feels the same way about his performance today. Still, there's something about him, and I don't know what it is, that gives you hope that he'll come through and become a great receiver in the league, even if the transition isn't particularly smooth. There will be bumps in the road and I'm not denying that, just I advise you guys to not give up on him.







I'm telling you people right now.....Dez Bryant dogged the workout because him, his agent, and a few of the better NFL teams (ahem Cowboys and Pats) that draft in the middle teens to early and mid 20's want him to fall so they can take him.

Jerry Jones wined and dined Dez for a reason.

After seeing the workout....he didn't look out of shape to me. He looked like he dogged some drills on purpose so his stock would fall!

[superman]

this could be the sleeping pill talking, but i have a gut feeling raiders get mcnabb then draft dez. now i know the 40 time disagrees with this, but mcnabb is going to have some kind of say. they have the speed at wr already. bryant, schilens, murphy, with the occasional appearance of bey running a fly is an intriguing wr corps.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Actually... from what I remember, in a Lions interview, Calvin said that those were his shoes. He had let someone else borrow them to run, and then he got them back so he could run.

Also... Dez Bryant is still a top 10 talent in this draft. 4.5 whatever he ran is good enough for 225. Fitz ran in the 4.5s. Marshall ran in the 4.5s.

The guy is an elite WR prospect. I hope some of your teams pass on him the way you guys bash the guy for forgetting a pair of cleats. Don't cry when he is abusing your teams and putting his cleat up your backdoor....

Fitz is 6'3 and was timed by some scouts breaking the 4.5 mark. Marshall is 6'4 and simply a physical mismatch for most corners.

Dez is a first rounder, probably a lock top 25 pick and the 1st WR off the board, but to me he's not a top 10 pick. I don't question his physical skills, just something about him screams potential 'headcase'.

Stay tuned.

[619]

I'm telling you people right now.....Dez Bryant dogged the workout because him, his agent, and a few of the better NFL teams (ahem Cowboys and Pats) that draft in the middle teens to early and mid 20's want him to fall so they can take him.

Jerry Jones wined and dined Dez for a reason.

After seeing the workout....he didn't look out of shape to me. He looked like he dogged some drills on purpose so his stock would fall!

LOL. Is that why there's such a big discrepancy between 40 times? :rolleyes:

[I_C_DeadPeople]

He looked really good in all the drills except one drill where there was an old guy throwing to him from about 10 yards away.

I am pretty sure the old guy was Bengals OC Bratkowski. Brat did look like a goof running that drill.

[zachsaints52]

i'm really entertained by the marshall comparisons.

like, '4.5 is so not a big deal! i mean, marshall ran a 4.5something and he was still drafted in the FOURTH ROUND!!!'

Every post I see of yours makes me think of a douchebag, but I love it!

[Babylon]

i'm really entertained by the marshall comparisons.

like, '4.5 is so not a big deal! i mean, marshall ran a 4.5something and he was still drafted in the FOURTH ROUND!!!'

I dont think it's as big a deal when you're a Jerry Rice or Larry Fitzgerald, two names that shouldnt be menitoned in the same sentance with Dez Bryant on many levels.

[TheSlinger]

Something is seriously wrong with this guy's wiring.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2010-03-31-4221725841_x.htm

Here's the rotoworld excerpt:

Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant lashed out at his skeptics to the Associated Press following his Tuesday Pro Day, insisting the criticism "has gone too far" and saying "he ain't never got in trouble with nobody."

Well, this won't help him. "I don't say anything wrong to nobody. I'm friendly. This here is too far," Bryant said. "Even if I did forget my cleats, what do that have to do with me playing football? Y'all don't want me to go to the NFL or something? It is going to happen. God blessed me to have this ability to play this game. I feel like I'm going through the same situation Randy Moss did." Bryant also defended Pacman Jones. "Why down talk the man," Bryant said of Pacman. "The man did everything right."

[descendency]

i'm really entertained by the marshall comparisons.

like, '4.5 is so not a big deal! i mean, marshall ran a 4.5something and he was still drafted in the FOURTH ROUND!!!'

I see lots of comparisons for Golden Tate to Steve Smith and Hines Ward, both were 3rd round picks yet lots of people have him as a lock for the first round - in a deeper draft.

I don't know if comparisons are the best way to determine draft stock. Then again, maybe they will be more useful than we might think.

[RWills]

Something is seriously wrong with this guy's wiring.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2010-03-31-4221725841_x.htm

Here's the rotoworld excerpt:

Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant lashed out at his skeptics to the Associated Press following his Tuesday Pro Day, insisting the criticism "has gone too far" and saying "he ain't never got in trouble with nobody."

Well, this won't help him. "I don't say anything wrong to nobody. I'm friendly. This here is too far," Bryant said. "Even if I did forget my cleats, what do that have to do with me playing football? Y'all don't want me to go to the NFL or something? It is going to happen. God blessed me to have this ability to play this game. I feel like I'm going through the same situation Randy Moss did." Bryant also defended Pacman Jones. "Why down talk the man," Bryant said of Pacman. "The man did everything right."


beat me to it...Im sorry, I can't deny his talent, but I would never put a player on my team who defends Pacman, or just the way he speaks in public, BE like Randy and don't talk to the media and play some ball

[TACKLE]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-player-interviews/09000d5d8134dd9b/Sanders-clears-the-air

Dez has had a really rough upbringing. His mom was 14 years-old when she had him. There's no reason to believe he is going to be an intellectual. He's not a bad kid just because his grammar sucks.

[Halsey]

Well, there was a time that I would have been thrilled if the Falcons landed Bryant at 19, but there's just too many bad signs. He might end up being a great player, but I prefer great players who aren't head cases.

[ThePudge]

beat me to it...Im sorry, I can't deny his talent, but I would never put a player on my team who defends Pacman, or just the way he speaks in public, BE like Randy and don't talk to the media and play some ball

He's not trying to stir up any controversy, if he turned his back on the media & didn't answer any questions they'd bash him even more. People keep trying to pull this guy down & it literally has NOTHING to do with him as a player on the field. Obviously he's not the most intelligent guy, but his message is true there... he's not a bad guy, he's polite, he's been nice to everyone and the media is portraying him as a head-case. He didn't cite any of Jones' nightclub outings, he just sides with a guy like Jones/Moss as they are (or were in Moss' case) players that have been bashed relentlessly by the media. There are a lot of college kids here so they should step back and look at the pressure he's been under and the amount of scrutiny he's endured for little things (like forgetting his shoes) and try to imagine yourself. He feels a little like a victim of the media at this point and all that matters is how well he can talk & build relationships with NFL coaches and front office personnel.

I would absolutely LOVE to have Dez Bryant at 21. Arguably the biggest steal (based on talent & ability) since Randy Moss. Bryant may not be in the Fitz/Jerry Rice class as a mature adult, but his work on the field was not far behind what Fitz was able to do at Pitt. I'm one that believes he plays faster than that 4.52-4.55 timed speed and doesn't need to be purely a vertical threat to succeed at the NFL level. The guy is electric with the ball in his hands, better than Larry Fitzgerald coming out & get ready for it, Calvin Johnson out of Georgia Tech. He's creative with the ball, he gets yards after the catch, he accelerates well, and he's not the easiest guy to bring down at 6'2 220.

Say what you want, keep trying to spin every little thing Dez does into the wrong move and a major red flag. The man will get paid & I would be shocked if he didn't go among the Top 14 picks in the draft; based on ability and my perceived value as a #1 potential star receiver I don't think it'd be a reach (in the slightest bit) for Seattle (6) or Cleveland (7) to take him in the Top 10 Overall.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Nice breakdown on Dez, Pudge. But I'm holding you to the top 14 for Dez.
I think many believe at this point his actual value is in the 17th to 25th pick range. We'll see come draft day.

On NFL Network there was a writer from TSN who had a really great analysis of Dez against Georgia last season before he was suspended. He had 3 catches and was shut down by a physical secondary SEC secondary.

This guy commented that he noticed Dez did much of his work outside the hashmarks, and was NOT physical across the field and had a tendency to quit on routes.
I don't know if the Georgia game reflects a trend by Bryant, or just a bad game against a tough opponent where he's the focus of double coverage.

I still like Dez with the ball in his hands and think he has outstanding run ability. But even now you can see he's got a little( a lot?) of 'DIVA' in is game.

Also, on NFL Network, it was the opinion of Mayock and others that Dez simply wasn't in great cardio or sprint shape and hadn't been doing the work he needed to do to maintain his game legs.
So he might actually be more of a 4.4 WR, but if he's playing B-ball 5 nights a week and jogging a couple miles on the track at OSU every couple days since his suspension, that's not the same physical grind of competing in practice every week during the season.

Maybe once Dez gets into minicamp and TC and gets into game shape, the player most saw in 2008 will emerge.

Also, even though he was ripped at @224# at his pro day, another analyst suggested his best playing weight might be in the 215# range.

[Babylon]

He's not trying to stir up any controversy, if he turned his back on the media & didn't answer any questions they'd bash him even more. People keep trying to pull this guy down & it literally has NOTHING to do with him as a player on the field. Obviously he's not the most intelligent guy, but his message is true there... he's not a bad guy, he's polite, he's been nice to everyone and the media is portraying him as a head-case. He didn't cite any of Jones' nightclub outings, he just sides with a guy like Jones/Moss as they are (or were in Moss' case) players that have been bashed relentlessly by the media. There are a lot of college kids here so they should step back and look at the pressure he's been under and the amount of scrutiny he's endured for little things (like forgetting his shoes) and try to imagine yourself. He feels a little like a victim of the media at this point and all that matters is how well he can talk & build relationships with NFL coaches and front office personnel.

I would absolutely LOVE to have Dez Bryant at 21. Arguably the biggest steal (based on talent & ability) since Randy Moss. Bryant may not be in the Fitz/Jerry Rice class as a mature adult, but his work on the field was not far behind what Fitz was able to do at Pitt. I'm one that believes he plays faster than that 4.52-4.55 timed speed and doesn't need to be purely a vertical threat to succeed at the NFL level. The guy is electric with the ball in his hands, better than Larry Fitzgerald coming out & get ready for it, Calvin Johnson out of Georgia Tech. He's creative with the ball, he gets yards after the catch, he accelerates well, and he's not the easiest guy to bring down at 6'2 220.

Say what you want, keep trying to spin every little thing Dez does into the wrong move and a major red flag. The man will get paid & I would be shocked if he didn't go among the Top 14 picks in the draft; based on ability and my perceived value as a #1 potential star receiver I don't think it'd be a reach (in the slightest bit) for Seattle (6) or Cleveland (7) to take him in the Top 10 Overall.

The flip side of trying to spin everything he does wrong is overlooking everything he does wrong. At some point things in the process have to matter for something.

[ThePudge]

The flip side of trying to spin everything he does wrong is overlooking everything he does wrong. At some point things in the process have to matter for something.

I agree with you and if this was a guy that I didn't like I'd probably be getting on him for pouring the wrong kind of milk into his cereal. As a guy that loves Dez on the field though & sees the mental makeup of receivers in the NFL it all seems like nitpicking.

Feel free to hold me to that Top 14, as I said before I pray that Dez will fall far enough for the Bengals to nab him. I've been wrong many times before, enough to know the word "lock" can be a worst enemy. He'll be off some boards for sure, some people won't want to deal with what they think may be a headache early on but I think there are evaluators (like Seattle's Pete Carroll) that are going to be willing to roll the dice & give Bryant, a Top 5 talent, a shot. Again, if he had a passion for basketball, I'd worry a bit, if he was arrogant & self-absorbed I'd worry, but he's a nice, polite kid that has been away from his passion for a year and is trying to work his way back. The guy has his problems mentally but being backed by coaches and veteran receivers could go a long way for him.

He didn't have coaches on him last year or this offseason, when he did he was the best receiver in America. He'll need some time to adjust, some time to develop his game against press-coverages. He'll need work refining his footwork on comeback routes and over the middle. Give him three years though and I think we're looking at a potential top-tier wideout. That's how I feel & only one or two (including Jerry Jones) decision-makers will need to feel that way. Maybe he's no McDaniels or Parcells guy but with the Quarterback situation settled (for now) in Seattle can Pete Carroll really pass on him twice in the Top 15 picks? Does Cleveland think he's worth more than Eric Berry or a LB at the 7 spot? How high is Jerry Jones willing to bid to get his team in position to take Dez?

He's the type of polite, "Yes sir. No sir" guys that won't turn a team away like a typical "Diva" would. I think a couple coaches are going to fall in love with what they could get out of Bryant with a little tough-love. You may have to ride him hard for the first few years and you can be sure he'll have work to do on his game to adjust, but I think the possible returns are more than some are giving him credit for. I wouldn't be shocked to say, one day, Dez Bryant is the best receiver in football. If he can keep his composure and mature I think he's got all he needs to be one of the best of our generation.

[FUNBUNCHER]

"If he can keep his composure and mature I think he's got all he needs to be one of the best of our generation."

Wow!! You really, REALLY do like him Pudge!!

Geez, go get a room!!LOL

Have you ever felt that way about a prospect in recent memory, or are you just commenting that you believe the kid overall has very elite tools to be a dominant NFL WR??

As a SKins fan, remembering the terrible fiascos we had at WR with Michael Westbrook and Desmond Howard, in general I'm gun shy about taking certain WRs.

Character and personality are almost as important as physical skills and playing ability.

BTW, I still think he's the top WR in this class, but I have a hard time taking him over some of the safety, DE, and OT prospects available in this draft.

[Babylon]

I agree with you and if this was a guy that I didn't like I'd probably be getting on him for pouring the wrong kind of milk into his cereal. As a guy that loves Dez on the field though & sees the mental makeup of receivers in the NFL it all seems like nitpicking.

Feel free to hold me to that Top 14, as I said before I pray that Dez will fall far enough for the Bengals to nab him. I've been wrong many times before, enough to know the word "lock" can be a worst enemy. He'll be off some boards for sure, some people won't want to deal with what they think may be a headache early on but I think there are evaluators (like Seattle's Pete Carroll) that are going to be willing to roll the dice & give Bryant, a Top 5 talent, a shot. Again, if he had a passion for basketball, I'd worry a bit, if he was arrogant & self-absorbed I'd worry, but he's a nice, polite kid that has been away from his passion for a year and is trying to work his way back. The guy has his problems mentally but being backed by coaches and veteran receivers could go a long way for him.

He didn't have coaches on him last year or this offseason, when he did he was the best receiver in America. He'll need some time to adjust, some time to develop his game against press-coverages. He'll need work refining his footwork on comeback routes and over the middle. Give him three years though and I think we're looking at a potential top-tier wideout. That's how I feel & only one or two (including Jerry Jones) decision-makers will need to feel that way. Maybe he's no McDaniels or Parcells guy but with the Quarterback situation settled (for now) in Seattle can Pete Carroll really pass on him twice in the Top 15 picks? Does Cleveland think he's worth more than Eric Berry or a LB at the 7 spot? How high is Jerry Jones willing to bid to get his team in position to take Dez?

He's the type of polite, "Yes sir. No sir" guys that won't turn a team away like a typical "Diva" would. I think a couple coaches are going to fall in love with what they could get out of Bryant with a little tough-love. You may have to ride him hard for the first few years and you can be sure he'll have work to do on his game to adjust, but I think the possible returns are more than some are giving him credit for. I wouldn't be shocked to say, one day, Dez Bryant is the best receiver in football. If he can keep his composure and mature I think he's got all he needs to be one of the best of our generation.

Interesting you mention Pete Carroll because i think he sees himself as someone that can work with anyone and make them better. Right now probably even money that either Bryant or Brandon Marshall ends up in Seattle. Personally i dont want to take a chance on either but they no doubt bring much help at a very shallow position for the Hawks.

[ThePudge]

"If he can keep his composure and mature I think he's got all he needs to be one of the best of our generation."

Wow!! You really, REALLY do like him Pudge!!

Geez, go get a room!!LOL

Have you ever felt that way about a prospect in recent memory, or are you just commenting that you believe the kid overall has very elite tools to be a dominant NFL WR??

As a SKins fan, remembering the terrible fiascos we had at WR with Michael Westbrook and Desmond Howard, in general I'm gun shy about taking certain WRs.

Character and personality are almost as important as physical skills and playing ability.

BTW, I still think he's the top WR in this class, but I have a hard time taking him over some of the safety, DE, and OT prospects available in this draft.

I just think he is in a similar class as a prospect to Andre Johnson & Larry Fitzgerald, though with a notably higher learning curve and maturity concerns. Each of those guys held claim as the best receiver in football at one point, and though no one can accomplish that year in & year out, I think Dez can establish himself in that top-tier. If I cross Roddy White with Andre, I get Bryant. If he can keep his head on straight his potential is through the roof. I acknowledge the gamble involved in drafting him, but the reward could be more than most are thinking of.

[Thumper]

Dez Bryant is a huge character concern, he is stupid, lazy, unmotivated and immature and a team that takes him is going to have a bust on their hands. He is overrated on the field having played against some really soft secondaries in the Big 12 and he played in a spread offense. Dez is talented but he doesn't even approach the talent level of Fitz, AJ and Calvin. If he were in last year's draft class he would have been the third best receiver after Crabs and Maclin and potentially even Harvin could've been rated higher. And in next year's class he could turn out to be 4th or 5th best compared to AJ Green, Julio Jones, Tolliver, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin. Dez is a bust waiting to happen and he is overrated in a weak receiving class.

That is the summary of what I think of Dez.

[LookItsAlDavis]

Dez Bryant is a huge character concern, he is stupid, lazy, unmotivated and immature and a team that takes him is going to have a bust on their hands. He is overrated on the field having played against some really soft secondaries in the Big 12 and he played in a spread offense. Dez is talented but he doesn't even approach the talent level of Fitz, AJ and Calvin. If he were in last year's draft class he would have been the third best receiver after Crabs and Maclin and potentially even Harvin could've been rated higher. And in next year's class he could turn out to be 4th or 5th best compared to AJ Green, Julio Jones, Tolliver, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin. Dez is a bust waiting to happen and he is overrated in a weak receiving class.

That is the summary of what I think of Dez.

Ditto. Mike Williams v2.0

[SenorGato]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-player-interviews/09000d5d8134dd9b/Sanders-clears-the-air

Dez has had a really rough upbringing. His mom was 14 years-old when she had him. There's no reason to believe he is going to be an intellectual. He's not a bad kid just because his grammar sucks.

Yes, but he talked to Deion Sanders when he shouldn't have, didn't run a 4.3 flat, and forgot his cleats so uh...red flags galore!

I really can't wait 'til draft day he goes top 10...Crabtree was getting called a prick by NFL FO's last year and didn't fall out of the top 10.

It's so funny how nothing changed in his stock until we ran out of guys to talk about/bash/pick apart. Should we get started on Suh now?

[no bare feet]

Dez Bryant is a huge character concern, he is stupid, lazy, unmotivated and immature and a team that takes him is going to have a bust on their hands. He is overrated on the field having played against some really soft secondaries in the Big 12 and he played in a spread offense. Dez is talented but he doesn't even approach the talent level of Fitz, AJ and Calvin. If he were in last year's draft class he would have been the third best receiver after Crabs and Maclin and potentially even Harvin could've been rated higher. And in next year's class he could turn out to be 4th or 5th best compared to AJ Green, Julio Jones, Tolliver, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin. Dez is a bust waiting to happen and he is overrated in a weak receiving class.

That is the summary of what I think of Dez.

his sophmore year was just as good as any year Crabs had and better than Maclin and he was in less of a gimmicky offense than both.

87 recs 1480 yards 19 tds.
and to project since a lot of people do that he was on pace (even though after 3 games is kinda moronic, ill do it anyways)
73 rec, 1400 yards, 17 tds.

the dude is a beast on film. i dont care what happens off the field. on the field he is a monster, plain and simple. i want wrote a sonnet for him like thepudge, but i show sililar admiration for Dez! : )

[LonghornsLegend]

Yes, but he talked to Deion Sanders when he shouldn't have, didn't run a 4.3 flat, and forgot his cleats so uh...red flags galore!

I really can't wait 'til draft day he goes top 10...Crabtree was getting called a prick by NFL FO's last year and didn't fall out of the top 10.

It's so funny how nothing changed in his stock until we ran out of guys to talk about/bash/pick apart. Should we get started on Suh now?

Exactly.


I just can't wait until all that matters is his on the field play and he starts dominating CB's and people forget about all of this. Percy Harvin had off the field problems galore too, I'd venture to say at the time they were much more worrisome then Bryants', especially if you go back to Harvin's time living in Virginia and dug deep enough.


Now that he's been as productive as you could have asked, and hasn't been in any trouble, all of a sudden it doesn't matter anymore.

[no bare feet]

Exactly.


I just can't wait until all that matters is his on the field play and he starts dominating CB's and people forget about all of this. Percy Harvin had off the field problems galore too, I'd venture to say at the time they were much more worrisome then Bryants', especially if you go back to Harvin's time living in Virginia and dug deep enough.


Now that he's been as productive as you could have asked, and hasn't been in any trouble, all of a sudden it doesn't matter anymore.

i am with you 100%.

look at what percy did in h.s
He served a one-game suspension early in his junior football season for unsportsmanlike conduct. As a senior, he was suspended for the final two regular-season games after making contact with an official and using inappropriate language during a game against First Colonial High School. In basketball, Harvin and a Green Run High School player were involved in a scuffle that prompted referees to stop the game with time remaining on the clock. As a result of this and prior incidents, Harvin was suspended from athletic competition by the Virginia High School League (VHSL). The suspension prevented Harvin from competing in the VHSL Group AAA State Indoor Track Meet at George Mason University that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Harvin

bust.

[SenorGato]

^^ The idea of him getting out of the top 12 alone is laughable...then you realize that he'd fit perfectly with TB, Cleveland, Jacksonville (shut up Jags fans, he'd definitely work), and Buffalo in the top 10 and then him even hitting 11 becomes laughable.

It's amazing how quickly the internet world throws labels on a 22-23 year old based on such minor incidents. Bryant's nowhere near as bad a person as what's being attempted to be painted.

[Babylon]

^
If nothing matters in the process let's just cancel combines and pro days and we can focus on our real lives.

[no bare feet]

^
If nothing matters in the process let's just cancel combines and pro days and we can focus on our real lives.

Film > marginally questionable decisions made by a kid under 21 years old.

[Babylon]

Film > marginally questionable decisions made by a kid under 21 years old.

He played in 3 games this year so film would be from past years, correct?

[SenorGato]

He played in 3 games this year so film would be from past years, correct?

+ the 3 games, yes.

In those 3 games he dominated btw...as he tended to do on the field in college.

^
If nothing matters in the process let's just cancel combines and pro days and we can focus on our real lives.

It's not so much that Bryant is above the process or that it doesn't matter...it's just really, really obvious that he's a high end talent.

[no bare feet]

He played in 3 games this year so film would be from past years, correct?

I think film includes any play that he was on the football field since he first day at Ok st.

[superman]

his sophmore year was just as good as any year Crabs had and better than Maclin and he was in less of a gimmicky offense than both.

87 recs 1480 yards 19 tds.
and to project since a lot of people do that he was on pace (even though after 3 games is kinda moronic, ill do it anyways)
73 rec, 1400 yards, 17 tds.

the dude is a beast on film. i dont care what happens off the field. on the field he is a monster, plain and simple. i want wrote a sonnet for him like thepudge, but i show sililar admiration for Dez! : )

yeah that 87 rec for 19 td kinda went under the radar because of what crabs did that year, but if you look at it that's more td's per rec on an offense that didn't pass nearly as much

[MetSox17]

To be fair, his sophomore stats were mostly done against garbage teams.

[Babylon]

+ the 3 games, yes.

In those 3 games he dominated btw...as he tended to do on the field in college.



It's not so much that Bryant is above the process or that it doesn't matter...it's just really, really obvious that he's a high end talent.

3 receptions against Georgia and 5 against Houston so let's try to be somewhat objective here and keep it real.

As for it being obvious he's a high end talent i think some would disagree.

[no bare feet]

To be fair, his sophomore stats were mostly done against garbage teams.
to be fair would be saying lets see how this guy plays out before calling him a bust?

[superman]

3 receptions against Georgia and 5 against Houston so let's try to be somewhat objective here and keep it real.

As for it being obvious he's a high end talent i think some would disagree.
let's be somewhat objective and mention 2 of those 3 rec against ga were td's

[MetSox17]

to be fair would be saying lets see how this guy plays out before calling him a bust?

Where in my post did you infer that i was calling him a bust?

[no bare feet]

let's be somewhat objective and mention 2 of those 3 rec against ga were td's

lets just keep on reaching here :), he once tied the shoe laces of a girl that sat behind him on the bus in 3rd grade, she fell and bruised her elbow

[no bare feet]

Where in my post did you infer that i was calling him a bust?

i quoted you to be fair in general about this guy, lets sing kumbaya!

[superman]

To be fair, his sophomore stats were mostly done against garbage teams.

eh, not terrible in any game

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/gamelog?playerId=235655&year=2008

two of the better teams they faced were ou and oregon in the bowl and he did well

[MetSox17]

i quoted you to be fair in general about this guy, lets sing kumbaya!

I am being fair, but if you're gonna use his stats as a barometer of his potential, then put them on a fair surface. He padded his stats against the Houstons, Troys and Baylors of the world.

[superman]

I am being fair, but if you're gonna use his stats as a barometer of his potential, then put them on a fair surface. He padded his stats against the Houstons, Troys and Baylors of the world.

you could say the same for crabtree with nevadas and s. methodists of the world. players can't help who they play.

[Halsey]

Good players tend to put up their best stats against the weakest competition. That's pretty much to be expected. Would you prefer he put up bad numbers against weaker competition?

[Babylon]

let's be somewhat objective and mention 2 of those 3 rec against ga were td's

I thought i was being objective saying he caught 3 passes against Georgia. 3 for 77 yds. and 2tds. I'm not saying he isnt talented but not much of a body of work lately.

[Halsey]

Bryant stood out in the UGA game. It was clear that UGA's defense feared him and was trying to get physical with him. It didn't work and led to Bryan Evans injuring his shoulder trying to make a big hit on him. Bryant also had a nice punt return in that game.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

I think the Andre Smith & Crabtree situations last year both prove that ability with a few issues will still get you drafted in a high spot.

[wogitalia]

Time is less of a concern to me than forgetting his boots.

Given the knocks on him and character concerns the forgetting his cleats thing fits right in with skipping trainings, being late to games and the general diva attitude that has been portrayed. It also has to bring into question just how much he really cares and whether he is taking any of this stuff seriously.

The only other outcome would be the guy is a complete ****** and really that is just as worrying.

He has great film he just seems to be doing everything in his ability to undo that film and create problems.

so he can go to a better football team in the middle of the round with picks between 10-20 range.

This must be about the only way you could spin it as a positive. Shows he cares more about winning than the 20m he would give up. Somehow I doubt this greatly though. I'm certainly getting the vibe that he just doesn't care.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

To be fair, I believe he said he brought 6 pairs of cleats, just not his favorites.

[FUNBUNCHER]

To be fair, I believe he said he brought 6 pairs of cleats, just not his favorites.

That's some crap my GF would say!!LOLOL

D-I-V-A!!!!!

[A Perfect Score]

Dez Bryant is a huge character concern, he is stupid, lazy, unmotivated and immature and a team that takes him is going to have a bust on their hands. He is overrated on the field having played against some really soft secondaries in the Big 12 and he played in a spread offense. Dez is talented but he doesn't even approach the talent level of Fitz, AJ and Calvin. If he were in last year's draft class he would have been the third best receiver after Crabs and Maclin and potentially even Harvin could've been rated higher. And in next year's class he could turn out to be 4th or 5th best compared to AJ Green, Julio Jones, Tolliver, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin. Dez is a bust waiting to happen and he is overrated in a weak receiving class.

That is the summary of what I think of Dez.

Wow man, you really did a good job analyzing his ta...oh wait, you just bashed on him as a person. Did he **** your girlfriend or something?

I've been saying for a very long time, and me and Pudge have had this discussion on IRC numerous times, that despite everything said about Dez Bryant, the guy is a magnificent football player. Personally, I think the character things are overblown, but even to those people like the guy above who clearly take issue with him as a person...just turn on the tape.He is an absolutely spectacular football player, and to say that he doesnt scratch the surface of the talent of people like Andre of Fitz is quite frankly, ignorant and ill informed. Hes every bit the football player Fitz was in college, and Ive got him rated a tiny notch below Andre and Calvin. Maclin and Harvin rated higher, are you ******* high? There is no way in hell that either of those two would be considered better WR prospects then Dez Bryant. Hes a legitimate top 10 talent that may fall due to the fact that he made a mistake. Hes big, tough, physical, shows excellent concentration, extends admirably toward the ball, has stickem for hands, AMAZING change of direction skills for a guy his size, and plays a hell of a lot faster then he times. Watching him play, he sure as hell doesnt look like he runs a 4.5, Ill tell you that much. Oh yeah, and he is a fantastic return man. What the hell else do you want the guy to do, bring you your coffee and tie your shoes?

Oh, and by the way...even though he ran a 4.55, he had a 1.5 10 yard split and broad jumped 11"1. Thats explosion.

[MetSox17]

Okay, it's clear that you have a hard-on for Bryant, but there is no way on god's green earth that Dez Bryant is anywhere near the prospect that Andre and Calvin Johnson were. Not even close.

[Thumper]

Wow man, you really did a good job analyzing his ta...oh wait, you just bashed on him as a person. Did he **** your girlfriend or something?

Wait... are you saying I should only care about the character of player if he did my girlfriend?

Clearly you haven't seen my much more in depth posts on him because that post you quoted was more negative than positive and I agree that he has the tools. But I think when you're evaluating a prospect you have to take his off the field actions into account, especially if they're affecting his on field play. I mean the guy lied to NCAA investigators, he is disowned by Oklahoma State and they wouldn't allow him to workout there, he missed practices, he missed meetings, he was late to games, he had to have coach pick him up, Oklahoma state has told reporters that he is lazy and didn't give his all in practice when he decided to show up. And then how do you think it looks when you have 6 months to prepare for a workout and you can't finish it, Why would a player in his biggest job interview not finish a simple drill? And why would a player show up at a workout without cleats? How does that look? It only makes him look more like an airhead and it only makes him seem more lazy, uninterested and flakey. Football doesn't seem like it matters to him. And then, he decides to open his mouth and he compares himself to Randy Moss, he says stupid things like "“What is this? Y’all don’t want me to go to the NFL or something? It’s going to happen.” So basically you have a guy who is going to need a babysitter just to get him to practice, meetings and even games and he is not the sharpest tack in the box.

Dez has all the tools to be a good receiver, but with each passing day I lose faith in his ability to put them all together. Is he willing to put in the work needed to be great in the NFL? The guy had six months to prepare for the biggest workout of his life and he didn't prepare for it, he had sloppy execution, didn't finish drills and forgets his cleats. He is just super immature, flakey, irresponsible, has a sense of entitlement and lazy. I don't think he'll ever put the tools together at the next level.

[J-Mike88]

To be fair, his sophomore stats were mostly done against garbage teams.
It seemed that every offense in the Big-12 racked up gaudy statistics that year. Was there no defense being played that season?

[SenorGato]

Okay, it's clear that you have a hard-on for Bryant, but there is no way on god's green earth that Dez Bryant is anywhere near the prospect that Andre and Calvin Johnson were. Not even close.

No, he's not. He's certainly on the tier just below them, and still a legit top 5 talent in this draft.

[parcells]

Okay, it's clear that you have a hard-on for Bryant, but there is no way on god's green earth that Dez Bryant is anywhere near the prospect that Andre and Calvin Johnson were. Not even close.

Calvin Johnson was definitely a better prospect than Andre Johnson. While Andre Johnson had great measurables, there were real questions about his abilities at WR. He wasn't a great route runner when he came out, and while his hands were decent they weren't raved about. He's turned into one of the best WRs in the league, but there's a reason he wasn't the first WR picked in his draft.

Calvin Johnson was the greatest WR prospect of all time IMO. The guy had great measurables, was a great route-runner, had phenomenal hands, and really didn't have a hole in his game. I'm not saying he'll be the greatest WR ever (or even that he'll be better than Andre Johnson), but as a prospect I think he was the greatest ever at the WR position. As a Chargers fan I did backflips when Oakland passed on him. That's the only time I can remember thinking that the #2 overall pick was the steal of the draft.

Bryant isn't that far behind Johnson as a prospect IMO. Most scout think he has better hands compared to what they thought of Andre Johnson back in 2003, and neither was a polished route-runner. The thing that knocks Bryant down is the immaturity and concerns that he's an ass. Johnson has always been a good guy and was seen as a pretty humble kid before the draft in 2003.

Bryant has the talent to be a top-5 WR in 2-3 years, but he's got the immaturity that could have him out of the league in 4-5 years (ala Charles Rogers).

[Addict]

I guess you could say that his personality and lack of speed are dezasters.

...

that joke was so lame a leper called to laugh at me :(

[SenorGato]

Calvin Johnson was definitely a better prospect than Andre Johnson. While Andre Johnson had great measurables, there were real questions about his abilities at WR. He wasn't a great route runner when he came out, and while his hands were decent they weren't raved about. He's turned into one of the best WRs in the league, but there's a reason he wasn't the first WR picked in his draft.

Calvin Johnson was the greatest WR prospect of all time IMO. The guy had great measurables, was a great route-runner, had phenomenal hands, and really didn't have a hole in his game. I'm not saying he'll be the greatest WR ever (or even that he'll be better than Andre Johnson), but as a prospect I think he was the greatest ever at the WR position. As a Chargers fan I did backflips when Oakland passed on him. That's the only time I can remember thinking that the #2 overall pick was the steal of the draft.

Bryant isn't that far behind Johnson as a prospect IMO. Most scout think he has better hands compared to what they thought of Andre Johnson back in 2003, and neither was a polished route-runner. The thing that knocks Bryant down is the immaturity and concerns that he's an ass. Johnson has always been a good guy and was seen as a pretty humble kid before the draft in 2003.

Bryant has the talent to be a top-5 WR in 2-3 years, but he's got the immaturity that could have him out of the league in 4-5 years (ala Charles Rogers).

Good summary...I don't knock Andre Johnson the prospect because dude's just a beast, but that's pretty much what he was. Mayock threw out the AJ comparison a few weeks ago, and I've been making it for months...only difference is that AJ was a track star with track star 40 time (ran in the 4.4's)...now AJ's game speed isn't 4.4 faster (if you wanted to time it), but no one actually cares because it's better than whoever is trying to cover and then tackle him.

Also, Charles Rogers would have been fine if he didn't keep breaking his collarbone and smoking weed. In his only healthy NFL games (all 4-5 of them his rookie year) he was pretty beast.

[bitonti]

No, he's not. He's certainly on the tier just below them, and still a legit top 5 talent in this draft.

in a different draft I'd agree

in this draft, maybe the deepest for 30 years... he doesn't get picked top 5 or even top 10.

he still could be a great NFL player if he matures up but his draft value is inflated on the internetz right now

[Complex]

Calvin Johnson was definitely a better prospect than Andre Johnson. While Andre Johnson had great measurables, there were real questions about his abilities at WR. He wasn't a great route runner when he came out, and while his hands were decent they weren't raved about. He's turned into one of the best WRs in the league, but there's a reason he wasn't the first WR picked in his draft.

Calvin Johnson was the greatest WR prospect of all time IMO. The guy had great measurables, was a great route-runner, had phenomenal hands, and really didn't have a hole in his game. I'm not saying he'll be the greatest WR ever (or even that he'll be better than Andre Johnson), but as a prospect I think he was the greatest ever at the WR position. As a Chargers fan I did backflips when Oakland passed on him. That's the only time I can remember thinking that the #2 overall pick was the steal of the draft.

Bryant isn't that far behind Johnson as a prospect IMO. Most scout think he has better hands compared to what they thought of Andre Johnson back in 2003, and neither was a polished route-runner. The thing that knocks Bryant down is the immaturity and concerns that he's an ass. Johnson has always been a good guy and was seen as a pretty humble kid before the draft in 2003.

Bryant has the talent to be a top-5 WR in 2-3 years, but he's got the immaturity that could have him out of the league in 4-5 years (ala Charles Rogers).

What about Randy Moss?

[MetSox17]

What about Randy Moss?

Calvin pretty much matched (and might have outdone) Randy in every pre-draft drill. Megatron had the numbers to back it up, in a GT offense that had Reggie f'n Ball playing QB. Also, while i think that Randy Moss is the greatest deep ball catcher the NFL has seen, CJ has better hands overall. All of that, then you subtract the character concerns that Moss had coming out, and you can see why one would say he was the greatest prospect ever.

[superman]

What about Randy Moss?

as strictly a prospect, i think cj trumps moss

now because of the situation moss went into, i don't think cj will have a more productive career

[Paranoidmoonduck]

What about Randy Moss?

Moss had been rejected by two schools due to character concerns before settling at Marshall and had a long history of somewhat antisocial behavior. He was fast and talented, but he was pretty far from being an astonishing prospect no matter how good he was once the Vikings drafted him.

Ignoring positional value for a moment here, I think Calvin Johnson is the best prospect I've ever seen.

[SenorGato]

in a different draft I'd agree

in this draft, maybe the deepest for 30 years... he doesn't get picked top 5 or even top 10.

he still could be a great NFL player if he matures up but his draft value is inflated on the internetz right now

Is it really? Because I'm seeing the exact opposite.

[Smooth]

The whole thing about Dez Bryant is way over blown. There's always one player in the draft that people love to hate and love to classify as a character concern. Problem for Bryant is his stock is taking the hit for it, unnecessarily.

Bryant's concerns shouldn't be all that great considering he's never been kicked off the team for breaking team rules and has never been in trouble with the law. A lot of his problems seem to stem from immaturity if anything and that's something that shouldn't be gaining as much attention as it is considering how old he is.

He's going to make whatever team that takes him in the mid-late 1st look like a genius.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Megatron is 6'5, 239#, and runs a 4.35.

Moss is 6'4, 215#, and had sub 4.3 speed when he came out.

Calvin Johnson overall is the greatest WR prospect ever, but he needs to have a beast season in 2010 to validate his reputation.

85 catches, 1400+yds, 15+TDs would be a nice start for CJ's HOF campaign.

[stephenson86]

Megatron is 6'5, 239#, and runs a 4.35.

Moss is 6'4, 215#, and had sub 4.3 speed when he came out.

Calvin Johnson overall is the greatest WR prospect ever, but he needs to have a beast season in 2010 to validate his reputation.

85 catches, 1400+yds, 15+TDs would be a nice start for CJ's HOF campaign.

hense why they need okung, keep stafford upright to throw to him

[TACKLE]

Megatron is 6'5, 239#, and runs a 4.35.

Moss is 6'4, 215#, and had sub 4.3 speed when he came out.

Calvin Johnson overall is the greatest WR prospect ever, but he needs to have a beast season in 2010 to validate his reputation.

85 catches, 1400+yds, 15+TDs would be a nice start for CJ's HOF campaign.

Moss wasn't the best prospect because there were serious off-field issues he had to deal with. Issues that were FAR more serious than the one's facing Dez Bryant. But Moss's numbers over two seasons at Marshall absolutely destroy Calvin's and every other receivers'.


Fun fact of the Day...

In two seasons at Marshall, Randy Moss had 174 catches, 3529 yards and 54 TD's.

[superman]

Moss wasn't the best prospect because there were serious off-field issues he had to deal with. Issues that were FAR more serious than the one's facing Dez Bryant. But Moss's numbers over two seasons at Marshall absolutely destroy Calvin's and every other receivers'.


Fun fact of the Day...

In two seasons at Marshall, Randy Moss had 174 catches, 3529 yards and 54 TD's.

weren't they divison 1-aa then though?

either way, they're close physically, i just think calvin being able to move 6'5" 235 around is more impressive then what moss does with 6'4" 210 (if he was even that heavy back then). no doubt both are freaks of nature.

[SenorGato]

His QB was Chad Pennington...Man, what could have been with that guy, amirite?

Moss was a Heisman candidate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgUqB6uZ3cQ

[Complex]

I disagree I think Randy Moss is the best WR prospect ever. He is faster than Calvin, I think Moss ran a 4.2(not offical since it was in the 90s). IMO Moss is more explosive and better overall athlete.Bobby Bowden said he was as good of athlete as Deion Sanders.

[superman]

I disagree I think Randy Moss is the best WR prospect ever. He is faster than Calvin, I think Moss ran a 4.2(not offical since it was in the 90s). IMO Moss is more explosive and better overall athlete.

idk what moss jumped but didn't calvin have a 42.5 vert at the combine? it's hard to say anybody is more explosive. i wish it wasn't so hard finding legit official numbers from the combine when moss was there.

i do agree moss is faster. but someone having 30 more pounds on them is a big deal. i'm even more impressed with vernon running that 4.38 at 250+

[Sniper]

His QB was Chad Pennington...Man, what could have been with that guy, amirite?

Moss was a Heisman candidate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgUqB6uZ3cQ

Who did he lose to? Oh, the guy's name is slipping my mind right now.

http://www.thewolverineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/charles_woodson.jpg

Ah, there he is. :D

superman, Marshall was indeed 1-AA.

[Complex]

Who did he lose to? Oh, the guy's name is slipping my mind right now.

http://www.thewolverineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/charles_woodson.jpg

Ah, there he is. :D

superman, Marshall was indeed 1-AA.

If Randy Moss didn't get in trouble at Florida State, Florida State would have won a championship every year he was there....

[Sniper]

If Randy Moss didn't get in trouble at Florida State, Florida State would have won a championship every year he was there....

Except 1997! St. Charles would have still won it!

[FUNBUNCHER]

If Randy Moss didn't get in trouble at Florida State, Florida State would have won a championship every year he was there....

Randy Moss was supposed to go to Notre Dame, I forgot why they pulled his scholarship.

His backup school was Florida State. He ended up at Marshall.

[Dark Knight01]

This thread has become another overanalytical lame thread.

Most NFL players have some kind of "red flag" going on.....so get over it people!

[Clarkw267]

Moss is the most talented WR to ever play the game. Sorry Calvin.

Moss was double/triple covered at Marshall, and he just cruised by them like a video game. I was at the 97 Motor City Bowl when they played Ole Miss (BTW this was Marshall's 1st year of D1-A Ball) and he went for 6 - 173 and a TD. They were doing any and everything they could to stop him, and they just couldn't.

Lou Holtz has called him the best athlete he's seen, and Bowden has compared him to Prime Time... done.

[thetedginnshow]

From a measurables standpoint, I think Calvin has Moss beat, but as far as on-field production goes, Moss certainly seemed like the better prospect. Kind of like a Mario Williams and... well, a great DE isn't coming to mind.

I do love watching this.

oOYH6PPYaPI

[Bengalsrocket]

From a measurables standpoint, I think Calvin has Moss beat, but as far as on-field production goes, Moss certainly seemed like the better prospect. Kind of like a Mario Williams and... well, a great DE isn't coming to mind.

I do love watching this.

oOYH6PPYaPI

I forget where, but someone has a clip of that play from behind and I think it looks even more amazing from that angle.

[superman]

calvin's qb in college was...reggie ball

prospect calvin > prospect randy

career randy > career calvin

for now

plus calvin could have been the #1 pick in the draft and no one would have complained. moss wasn't even the 1st wr taken in his.

[Clarkw267]

calvin's qb in college was...reggie ball

prospect calvin > prospect randy

career randy > career calvin

for now

plus calvin could have been the #1 pick in the draft and no one would have complained. moss wasn't even the 1st wr taken in his.

Yeah.. and DHB was drafted before Crabtree... your point? Does that mean Terry Fair was a better prospect than Moss?

Going just by talent, Moss was the better player hands down.

Guy is an unbelievable athlete.

In HS he was the best recruit in the country. WV player of the year in football and basketball. 100 M and 200 M state champ. Named one of the greatest 50 HS players of all time...

Then all he did was dominate 2 levels of college football in 2 years.

People are saying Calvin had better measurables then Moss, but how can you say that when he didn't attend the combine. Calvin has better size. That's about all you can say.

[superman]

i think the only thing you could actually say moss had better than calvin at was speed and college stats. not body control, not hands, not vertical, not strength, not size, not brains, etc etc etc. calvin's probably the only prospect i can ever think of with not one flaw.

[superman]

just think of it this way. go back to 2007. lions on the clock. would they take moss out of college over calvin out of college? NO

go back to '98. calvin from college vs moss from college at #18. do you really think vikings would take moss still? NO. in retrospect if they knew what he'd do his rookie year, then yes maybe.

[Clarkw267]

just think of it this way. go back to 2007. lions on the clock. would they take moss out of college over calvin out of college? NO

go back to '98. calvin from college vs moss from college at #18. do you really think vikings would take moss still? NO. in retrospect if they knew what he'd do his rookie year, then yes maybe.

If your basing the pick purely on football talent, and not character issues. Yes. Moss would be the pick. He was unstoppable.

I think you are selling Moss short. I've seen them both live multiple times. Moss' presence on the field was unreal.

[superman]

they're close physically (although i give the edge to calvin, but i understand a few people not agreeing with that), but this entire dispute is who is the best prospect of all time (or best wr prospect i don't remember). that includes everything. you honestly think if they were in the same draft, cj wouldn't be picked before moss?

it's hard to look at it without biased because moss has dominated in the nfl since 98'

[Complex]

Randy Moss was a better prospect/athlete overall, the only reason people like kevin dyson and etc got drafted before him was because he was in trouble alot. I would take Randy Moss over Calvin Johnson if both came out at the sametime.

[FUNBUNCHER]

6'5, 239# WR with 4.3 speed, OR 6'4, 205# WR with 4.2 speed.

It's a win-win, either way, but some teams will automatically prefer CJ because he's a more imposing physical specimen.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I'm not clear at what point people are simply ignoring Moss' character concerns prior to the draft as not factoring into what quality of prospect he was. Character concerns always play a role in how good a prospect is.

This sounds very much like people being unable to look past Moss' HOF production after he was drafted. Calvin Johnson was easily the better prospect.

[Clarkw267]

I'm not clear at what point people are simply ignoring Moss' character concerns prior to the draft as not factoring into what quality of prospect he was. Character concerns always play a role in how good a prospect is.

This sounds very much like people being unable to look past Moss' HOF production after he was drafted. Calvin Johnson was easily the better prospect.

That's fine. However, what I was saying is that purely based off of talent, Moss was the better player in college.

I don't care what either has done in the pros. Moss was on a different level in college. He was the best player I've seen play the college game in person.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Better player in college isn't what I'm arguing, mostly because I absolutely agree that Moss was the better college player. I'm talking about status as an NFL prospect, which we know is largely a completely different thing.

[Clarkw267]

Better player in college isn't what I'm arguing, mostly because I absolutely agree that Moss was the better college player. I'm talking about status as an NFL prospect, which we know is largely a completely different thing.

People are arguing that Calvin was the better prospect based on measurables and production alone. Now if you bring the character issues into play, I'll give you that it probably would push Calvin above Moss, but not just purely based on combine numbers and game tape.

[superman]

what did moss actually run and jump at the combine? i thought i read he wasn't there but then i see it mentioned every now and then.

and remember, div 1-aa w/ pennington at qb vs acc with reggie ball at qb...

of course calvin didn't have better college stats, but he certainly did well enough to where it can't be a flaw on his part. like it could be for a guy like vernon davis who was equally freaky to both of these guys but didn't show much in college (because of maybe system, maybe talent, etc).

either way, i don't see how if both were in the draft today, a gm wouldn't take calvin 1st. the guy was as close to 0% bust potential as possible. imagine if he fell to a team like the vikings instead of lions. except he would have never fell to a pick as low as moss did because he is the better prospect.

[superman]

this kinda reminds me of the peppers/freeney draft

peppers was a tad bit freakier but freeney was faster. peppers picked 1st because he was the better prospect. but freeney has had the better career.

[SenorGato]

Randy Moss is arguably the most explosive playmaking WR in history, at many levels including pro.

Moss physically was Johnson before Johnson if that makes sense. A 6'4 208 pound WR (huge for a fast WR at the time I guess) with elite speed and athleticism. He wrecked high school, college, and the NFL level competition.

[superman]

Randy Moss is arguably the most explosive playmaking WR in history, at many levels including pro.

Moss physically was Johnson before Johnson if that makes sense. A 6'4 208 pound WR (huge for a fast WR at the time I guess) with elite speed and athleticism. He wrecked high school, college, and the NFL level competition.

i guess another debate would be does 30 lbs extra = plus .1 (if that moss really ran a legit 4.25) sec on a 40 time and still maintain the same caliber of athlete?

i guess if ya really wanted to find out, you could go calculate it. i'm not even sure how lol. it'd be hard to get fair numbers to compare them though if moss didn't weigh in or run at combine.

[parcells]

What about Randy Moss?

Part of what goes into evaluating a prospect is the off-the-field stuff. Calvin Johnson is by all accounts a great guy who has never been in trouble. Randy Moss is great talent and an even greater asshole. That said, even if you discount the off-the-field stuff, I'd still take Calvin Johnson. Johnson was a much more polished route runner (which is reflective of someone who works harder to get better at their trade). He really had no weaknesses as a prospect.

With regards to Randy Moss, 20 different teams passed on his potential because of the off-the-field stuff. With Calvin Johnson, only the Raiders passed on him.

Furthermore, look at Moss' career and you see that teams were correct with hesitating on Randy Moss with the off-the-field stuff. He's had legal trouble and was a locker room cancer in Minnesota and Oakland. In NE he's even started having problems with his taking off plays.

[parcells]

Randy Moss was a better prospect/athlete overall, the only reason people like kevin dyson and etc got drafted before him was because he was in trouble alot. I would take Randy Moss over Calvin Johnson if both came out at the sametime.

And you'd look like a genius for a few years until Moss turned into a locker room cancer and forced his way out of town. Oh, and Moss is a great player...on the plays he decides to actually make an effort. Calvin Johnson has never half-assed during a game.

[parcells]

Ignoring positional value for a moment here, I think Calvin Johnson is the best prospect I've ever seen.

I'm too young to remember John Elway as a prospect. With that said, I would agree with this statement.

[parcells]

In regards to stats, Randy Moss has played 12 years averaging 1200 yards and 12 TDs per year. Calvin Johnson has had about 1000 yards and 7 TDs per season. This is playing on one of the worst teams in the NFL with QB instability and a rookie QB.

Moss got dropped into an offense with a stud RB, a HOF WR, and another Pro-Bowl receiver (Reed).

[SenorGato]

i guess another debate would be does 30 lbs extra = plus .1 (if that moss really ran a legit 4.25) sec on a 40 time and still maintain the same caliber of athlete?

i guess if ya really wanted to find out, you could go calculate it. i'm not even sure how lol. it'd be hard to get fair numbers to compare them though if moss didn't weigh in or run at combine.

Doesn't really matter to me. If they were in the same draft, I'd probably only take Johnson over Moss because of the character issues.

[superman]

Doesn't really matter to me. If they were in the same draft, I'd probably only take Johnson over Moss because of the character issues.

ditto. i don't think anybody would take moss over calvin if both of them hadn't played a down in the nfl yet.

[MetSox17]

Hey, guess who had a Heisman Finalist and future NFL vet playing QB for them? Who played vastly inferior competition because he got kicked out of a D1 Football program? Who had Reggie f'n Ball playing Qb for them?

[TACKLE]

Hey, guess who had a Heisman Finalist and future NFL vet playing QB for them? Who played vastly inferior competition because he got kicked out of a D1 Football program? Who had Reggie f'n Ball playing Qb for them?

I was waiting for this. The Reggie Ball hate on here used to be out of control.

[MetSox17]

I think i could have been a better QB at GT than Reggie ************* Ball.

[TACKLE]

I think i could have been a better QB at GT than Reggie ************* Ball.

Reggie Ballin'!!! Pick one. Great passer or greatest passer.

[Clarkw267]

Not taking into account pro production at all. Just based on ability. Moss is trump. Guy is an insane natural athlete. Poor work ethic? Sure. Character issues? Yeah. But athletic ability... unmatched.

Also as for the Calvin doesn't take plays off notion.. Yeah he does. Tune into a few Lions' games.

[SenorGato]

Poor work ethic? Sure.

No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ra1mG55XE

You can't really f with Moss' work ethic...you don't get to the level he's been at his whole life without having some kind of work ethic/drive.

[Sniper]

Reggie Ballin'!!! Pick one. Great passer or greatest passer.

Great. He's no match for Nick Sheridan.

I like that we're both reppin' the wise one known as Kevin Nelson in our sigs. He just powercleaned earf 12 times for a warm-up set.