PDA

View Full Version : Per PFT: Todd McShay backlash builds


The_Dude
03-31-2010, 12:08 PM
As if anyone here is surprised by this....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/31/todd-mcshay-backlash-builds/

Todd McShay backlash builds
Posted by Mike Florio on March 31, 2010 12:56 PM ET
Many NFL scouts have a sore spot for failed NFL scouts who enter the media and attempt to critique the work of NFL scouts who have not yet failed.

Even more NFL scouts have a sore spot for guys who were never NFL scouts, couldn't be if they wanted to, and then attempt to critique the work of folks who became NFL scouts.

Once upon a time, Mel Kiper was the primary target of NFL scouts; Kiper has been supplanted by his on-air protege/rival at ESPN, Todd McShay. As McShay's profile increases, and as he takes on the likes of quarterback Jimmy Clausen for reasons that many league insiders believe have no merit, McShay becomes a magnet for criticism.

"Most people at my level feel he is a joke," a veteran NFL scout told us via e-mail. "People in the league respect Kiper. He is not a true scout but he does work at it. A lot of his info he gets from connections in the league, and over the years he has made quite a few. When he was younger he used to burn some bridges. He doesn't do that any more."

So what about McShay?

"McShay does not have any good connections," the source opined. "Higher-ups in the league think he is an arrogant asshole. A know-it-all. And he really knows nothing. Whatever he says about a quarterback, take it to the bank, it will be the opposite. Remember, last August he stated that Jevan Snead was better than Colt McCoy and would get drafted in the top five. He has yet to publicly retract that statement.

"One of the reasons the kid came out was because of what McShay said. The family thought McShay knew and everyone else was wrong. . . . He has problems with game management, accuracy and leadership among other things, but pretty boy Todd thought he was great because of one good game...

Shane P. Hallam
03-31-2010, 12:12 PM
Freddie Barnes disagrees!

"i like todd mcshay... i think he keep it real. and i think teams and GM's respect his insight much more than kipers. "

eaglesalltheway
03-31-2010, 12:14 PM
I wish I knew who this scout was saying this, he seems like a cool guy...

Bengals78
03-31-2010, 12:17 PM
Freddie Barnes disagrees!

"i like todd mcshay... i think he keep it real. and i think teams and GM's respect his insight much more than kipers. "

That's because Freddie is the ****.

CC.SD
03-31-2010, 12:24 PM
He is really awful, but I think scouts are mostly pissed because the more wrong he is, the more people realize just how much of a shot in the dark the entire business is.

Halsey
03-31-2010, 12:46 PM
I actually like Mcshay. I brought this up in another thread, so I'll just basically repeat what I said. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I find his viewpoints and the info he provides to be mostly interesting. The funny thing is that there was a time when Kiper was widely disliked. Now Kiper is heavily popular and Mcshay is widely disliked, partially because he disagrees with Kiper a lot. Mcshay has disagreed with Kiper on many occasions and has ended up being right on more than one of thier disagreements.

edit: Thread authors avy is sweet. I saw that gif posted the other day and it didn't occur to me what a great avy it would make.

JFLO
03-31-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm not a big fan of McShay. His analysis of quarterbacks is just plain awful. The Andre Woodson scenario is perfect. I mean, Woodson had potential, but I think everyone and their mother knew that he wasn't a 1st round pick and McShay didn't back off his claim that Woodson was a 1st round choice until around 2-3 weeks until the draft.

I really don't understand his massive criticism of Clausen. I think ESPN is pushing it way too much which might inflate my argument, but McShay's argument that Clausen is way too egotistical is ********.

TACKLE
03-31-2010, 12:56 PM
Here is my main issue with McShay. Good scouting is rooted in a good understanding of the game. I don't get the impression that McShay understands the technical side of football very well. So this really limits what he can do as a talent evaluator. Don't know if its true or not just the impression I get. He talks about H/W/S, game stats and uses scouting cliches. But rarely do you hear him reference a specific aspect of a players game based off the film.

JFLO
03-31-2010, 12:58 PM
Here is my main issue with McShay. Good scouting is rooted in a good understanding of the game. I don't get the impression that McShay understands the technical side of football very well. So this really limits what he can do as a talent evaluator. Don't know if its true or not just the impression I get. He talks about H/W/S, game stats and uses scouting cliches. But rarely do you hear him reference a specific aspect of a players game based off the film.

"Scouts Inc" (hate that name so much) is all about triangle numbers than anything else.

Take Anthony Davis for example. Everyone knew that he had some risks of being a possible character issue and was inconsistent on the field, but McShay and Co. had him ranked as high as #4 overall (possibly #3) about a month ago.

PrimetimeTheDon
03-31-2010, 12:59 PM
Few things.

1. McShay's top rated QB history is outstanding.
2. I thought Jevan Snead would be a top 5 pick too.
3. Cullen Harper and Curtis Painter. It happens all the time, and to everybody.
4. His analysis sometimes is plain inaccurate. He said aroudn January last year that Mark Sanchez had a weak arm. Um, no. I don't get his hate of Clausen either, as he hits all points of the field, something McShay is usually quite adament about.

He's no worse than any of the other big time scouters in my opinion. And Mayock was plain awful last year, and I'm not a big fan this year either.

Halsey
03-31-2010, 01:00 PM
I'm not a big fan of McShay. His analysis of quarterbacks is just plain awful. The Andre Woodson scenario is perfect. I mean, Woodson had potential, but I think everyone and their mother knew that he wasn't a 1st round pick and McShay didn't back off his claim that Woodson was a 1st round choice until around 2-3 weeks until the draft.

I really don't understand his massive criticism of Clausen. I think ESPN is pushing it way too much which might inflate my argument, but McShay's argument that Clausen is way too egotistical is ********.

Everyone who analyzes the Draft is going to have their fair share of bad predictions and observations. Kiper has had his fair share and so has Scott and everyone else.

As far as Clausen goes, there are supposedly many 'NFL people' who don't like him either. No NFL team should let ESPN or any other media source heavily influence their assessment.

Halsey
03-31-2010, 01:03 PM
Few things.
He said around January last year that Mark Sanchez had a weak arm.


I'd like to see proof that Mcshay said that, because form what I remember, he had Sanchez as his #1 QB last year.

and Scott liked Snead a lot at one time too.

JFLO
03-31-2010, 01:07 PM
Everyone who analyzes the Draft is going to have their fair share of bad predictions and observations. Kiper has had his fair share and so has Scott and everyone else.

As far as Clausen goes, there are supposedly many 'NFL people' who don't like him either. No NFL team should let ESPN or any other media source heavily influence their assessment.

I don't think it's from a hit/miss aspect. I think it's just the fact that scouts don't like him because he doesn't really know what he's talking about, at least in their eyes. McShay obviously knows more than people like us discussing him on these forums or else he wouldn't have a job with ESPN. I think people also forget the fact that McShay played DII ball as a quarterback for Richmond, so he has some technical advantages when it comes to evaluating talent.

LizardState
03-31-2010, 01:17 PM
I actually like the friction between the sitting draft authority, Scout Grand Poobah of the Media Kiper & the ingenue McShay when ESPN has them on split screen.

Kiper exudes the confidence of the reigning authority, while up-&-comer McShay has to hem & haw. Like everybody else I ragged on Kiper for yrs. b/c of his obvious arrogance & that hair, OMG..... but seriously folks, he's a self-made draft authority who's made a living with it for decades & has gotten really, really good at it.

McShay is getting better at it, & I can evaluate his growing in the scouting job once I get past his annoying Canadian accent. OK, he missed on Snead, so did a lot of draftniks myself included -- After he led Ole Miss to that big win over Texas Tech 2 Cotton Bowls ago I thought he was Heisman material.

OSUGiants17
03-31-2010, 01:34 PM
God I hate Todd McShay

no bare feet
03-31-2010, 01:44 PM
As much as I dislike Todd McShay as a person with his bourgeious attitude, he is not afraid to have an opinion and make a statement that may not sit favorably with a lot of people(esp. ND fans). At least he is not a puppet. He also gets slammer mroe than Mike Mayock, who at times plays the I know more than you and will say this person is a top 10 prospect just to be that guy card. Both have their faults, it's just Todd's attitude and aura rub people the wrong way. he is a douche.

YAYareaRB
03-31-2010, 01:47 PM
What do people think of Mayock?

no bare feet
03-31-2010, 01:50 PM
What do people think of Mayock?

Seems like a lot of people on many draft boards play puppet to Mayock and use him as the end all be all. he is good for what he does but I don't use his opinions or projections to determine my rankings and thoughts about prospects.

Halsey
03-31-2010, 01:53 PM
What do people think of Mayock?

Like him too, but he's no more perfect than anyone else. He ranked Knowshon Moreno as like his 5th best prospect last year. I'm a UGA fan and even I could tell that was way too high. Very few RBs, especially ones who don't have great measureables, should be ranked that high.

Splat
03-31-2010, 02:02 PM
I'm not a big fan of Todd either but dude straight called it on Vernon Gholston he was telling everyone don't touch that kid in the top ten.

killxswitch
03-31-2010, 02:14 PM
I kind of like Mayock but he whiffed badly last year with the Robert Ayers love.

McShay says a lot of dumb stuff that you know is wrong when you first hear it. A few weeks later, it turns out to be wrong.

I do back and forth between liking Kiper and Mayock more, but I like draft sites and writeups more than either of them because being on TV means anyone is going to dumb stuff down and be more flamboyant than they need to be.

eaglesalltheway
03-31-2010, 02:55 PM
I like Mayock for the most part. He really knows his stuff when it comes to skill positions, he is off at times in the trenches, but he isn't a douche and actually studies more film than both Kiper and McShay.

Whistler6
03-31-2010, 02:57 PM
For every scout that hits a prospect perfectly, 99% miss. McShay hasn't been right all the time, but neither has Mel or Mayock. It's easy to diss a guy for a bad whiff, but I like Todd McShay.

His and Mel Kiper Jr's "First Draft" podcast is pretty good stuff, quick and to the point. I'm sure ESPN couldn't care any less what "unnamed" scouts say...He looks good on camera and is smooth. That's all that really matters for tv.

CashmoneyDrew
03-31-2010, 03:01 PM
I kind of like Mayock but he whiffed badly last year with the Robert Ayers love.


You take that back.

keylime_5
03-31-2010, 03:12 PM
if todd mcshay is one of the reasons you declare for the draft then you need to rework your decision making process. I would listen to what NFL people, (like the NFL Draft Advisory committee, duh) and ignore what the internet mock draft people like McShay say who have no background in NFL personnel or scouting.

TACKLE
03-31-2010, 04:07 PM
What do people think of Mayock?

Mayock is very opinionated. So naturally people are either going to really like him or really dislike him. Whether you like him or not, of all the TV draft guru's, he is clearly the best at his job.

Brent
03-31-2010, 04:15 PM
I get all my draft advice from Rich Eisen.

The_Dude
03-31-2010, 08:12 PM
I get all my draft advice from Scott Wright.

Fixed it for you...

I prefer Mayock to the rest of the talking heads, but really, I do enjoy getting the majority of my draft info from this site. Scott does quite the thorough job of analyzing the prospects and I also like reading the competing amateur analysis of the forums.

Now i will go wipe the brown off of my nose ;)

LonghornsLegend
03-31-2010, 08:48 PM
if todd mcshay is one of the reasons you declare for the draft then you need to rework your decision making process.

This basically sums up what I was going to say. I don't like McShay, but let's be serious, if you declared for the draft because of what McShay felt or thought your an idiot to begin with. Isn't that why they have the NFL Draft committee or whatever to figure out where your supposed to go?


Most of us don't follow the draft nearly as strong as people paid to do it, and who here thought Snead was a top 10 pick AFTER this past season? That's probably the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time.


Not sure why it became cool to pile on McShay for no reason, but this is BS.

Brent
03-31-2010, 10:20 PM
Fixed it for you.
**** that, I take draft advice from no one. I like to consider all the sources but the best part about the draft is that I throw out all the mocks in the world because I just love being surprised.

descendency
04-01-2010, 02:23 AM
Most of us don't follow the draft nearly as strong as people paid to do it, and who here thought Snead was a top 10 pick AFTER this past season? That's probably the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time.


Not sure why it became cool to pile on McShay for no reason, but this is BS.

Exactly. Snead has the tools to be a good QB and showed quite a bit of development from the beginning of last season to the end. Who knew he would regress this season? If he had continued to progress like last season, he'd be #1 overall. He has better tools than Bradford or Clausen.

Too bad he's not very accurate and can't read a defense to save his life...

However, on the greater point, McShay is just not that good of an analyst. Sometimes he gets things right because he isn't that conventional, but most of the time when he is out there by himself, he is wrong.

Fake Bake needs to work on his personality a bit more though.

Brown Leader
04-01-2010, 02:33 AM
"pretty boy Todd" ?

Notredameleo
04-15-2010, 08:16 PM
Is it me or does it seem like McShay has a personal vendetta against Clausen for some reason? He takes a shot at him every chance he gets..

YAYareaRB
04-15-2010, 08:19 PM
McShay is a ****** idiot. A couple days back he was saying because Josh McDaniels is from the Patriots organization, he won't take a WR in the first round after just losing his number one WR.

ViperVisor
04-15-2010, 09:20 PM
"I don't know... maybe" doesn't sell on TV.

Whistler6
04-15-2010, 10:09 PM
"I don't know... maybe" doesn't sell on TV.

Exactly, it's shock value. The way everyone makes it out you would think McShay has Clausen falling to the 7th round. His mock still has him as a top pick, he's just not as high on him as Mel is.