Sheldon Brown, Chris Gocong to Browns?

[keylime_5]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6384866/20711262?tag=comBlogEntryListCnt;entry20711262

well this is what Adam Schefter was alluding to on his twitter yesterday. I wonder what the compensation is (D'Qwell Jackson involved?).

This trade would change how the top ten picks would shake out for sure if it happens. No Joe Haden, probably not an OLB at 7 either considering all the LBs the Browns have.

[RealityCheck]

That pretty much would set an offensive player for the Browns. Spiller or Clausen.

[Grizzlegom]

Eric Berry. in the unlikely event he's gone, Spiller would get my bet.

[Smooth Criminal]

Have to wait and see what the Browns give up, but I'm a big fan. Brown is definately an upgrade over what they have, and Gocong could be a pretty good 3-4 OLB.

Unless the Browns end up giving up alot, this is a great move to improve the team. Opens it up for them to look at Clausen, Spiller, or even Dez Bryant at 7.

[keylime_5]

if Berry is gone then Spiller, Bryant, etc. sound good. Not so sure we'd take those guys though. I think they'd try to trade up or down aggresively to get a guy they really want instead. Earl Thomas could be one to watch.

[Sniper]

Good. We do need to trade away our best corner. Makes sense.

[BaLLiN]

Good. We do need to trade away our best corner. Makes sense.

yeah this doesnt make much sense for the eagles, if they're giving away sheldon and Gocong (alright) for just D'Qwell Jackson then i would think a 2nd rounder possibly even switching firsts and a mid round pick would be in order

[Diehard]

Good. We do need to trade away our best corner. Makes sense.

It does if a certain Raider CB ends up on your roster...

The Eagles are definitely in the thick of things right now. It will be interesting to see how all these rumors play out.

[superman8456]

Good. We do need to trade away our best corner. Makes sense.

Maybe the FO knows something we dont about Sheldon. He did seem to fall apart late in the season.

[eagles6606]

Good. We do need to trade away our best corner. Makes sense.

This would be an intresting trade. Sheldon did have some nagging injuries that hurt him last year, but he also had his best year. He was very good last year. The Eagles, however, aren't willing to giev him a new contract and would rather get some value for him. With both in a trade, I would expect either a 3rd and another pick, or switching 2nd rounds picks and a 4th or something....Anyone know what players the Browns have that would intrest the Eagles?

[keylime_5]

he is like 31 and wants a new contract. Our GM is Heckert, maybe he and Eagles are too good of buddies. Most seem to think the price is something like a 3rd and DQwell Jackson maybe.

[fear the elf]

Shaun Rogers :)

Honestly though, I don't see anywhere else on your roster that you would need anything that we have.

[M.O.T.H.]

Gocong should have been playing 3-4 OLB right out of college.

[superman8456]

It does if a certain Raider CB ends up on your roster...

The Eagles are definitely in the thick of things right now. It will be interesting to see how all these rumors play out.

But that trade rumor has us giving up Asante as well...

[ThePudge]

Being from Philly, Sheldon Brown was my favorite Eagle. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Birds move up on draft day for Earl Thomas or even Eric Berry, both of whom they've scouted heavily. Both those guys may have the ability to play corner along with FA-pickup Marlin Jackson (if healthy).

[M.O.T.H.]

The Eagles seem pretty locked in to Berry or Thomas...so realistically, that means Thomas. Could be planning on picking up another pick to maneuver with, to make sure they get their guy. Not too sure I buy Thomas at 24.

[Pat Sims 90]

The Eagles seem pretty locked in to Berry or Thomas...so realistically, that means Thomas. Could be planning on picking up another pick to maneuver with, to make sure they get their guy. Not too sure I buy Thomas at 24.

If the Eagles get a 2nd or 3rd out of this deal they could move up and grab Thomas

[scottyboy]

plz happen. kthxbye

[M.O.T.H.]

If the Eagles get a 2nd or 3rd out of this deal they could move up and grab Thomas

That's what I was saying.

[keylime_5]

I hear it's for Alex Hall, plus a 4th and 5th rounder.

[fear the elf]

I hear it's for Alex Hall, plus a 4th and 5th rounder.

Done. Do that **** right now.

[BaLLiN]

it is
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=20616

The Philadelphia Eagles today announced they have traded CB Sheldon Brown and LB Chris Gocong to the Cleveland Browns for LB Alex Hall, a 4th round draft choice (105th overall) and a 5th round draft choice (137th overall) in 2010.

[Todd Bertuzzi]

What the ****?!?!?!?!

[scottyboy]

GOOOO WALRUS!!! WOOO!
i love Mike!

[fear the elf]

it is
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=20616

Thanks for the link. Good for the Browns, not sure what I think from the Eagles standpoint though. Gocong looks like he was worthless to them and Sheldon was unhappy, so I guess it works for them as well. My only concern is how much Sheldon has left in the tank.

[Gay Ork Wang]

what the hell eagles?

[A Perfect Score]

Eagles got hosed. Thats a great trade for the Browns.

[M.O.T.H.]

Bleh. Hall's got some talent but still looks better as 3-4 OLB, imo.

[BaLLiN]

GOOOO WALRUS!!! WOOO!
i love Mike!

lol, if they dont have a great corner opposite Asante, i think he'll see a big dropoff. Does this mean a Donovan-Asmougha trade is coming soon?

[Sniper]

ARE YOU ************* KIDDING ME? SERIOUSLY, ANDY? YOU FAT PIECE OF ******* DONKEY ******* ****. YOU ARE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THE DUMBEST ************* MAN ON THE ******* FACE OF THE EARTH? **** YOU, YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF CAMEL DICK AND ******* BURN IN HELL.

**** you.

[Tha Wootster]

I don't know how you made it Sniper. Andy. Gainey. Must be tough.

[Sniper]

I don't know how you made it Sniper. Andy. Gainey. Must be tough.

Andy, Gainey, Rich Rod, Beilein...thank the ******* Lord for Theo Epstein.

[RealityCheck]

Wow. The Browns won it big.

[BaLLiN]

Wow. The Browns won it big.

right now, if they trade mcnabb for aso and a pick or two, this makes all the more sense. They could be clearing cap room to resign Aso to a longterm contract. Also they could easily replace Gocong with a much better fitting linebacker from this years class with that 4th.

[Smooth Criminal]

How in the hell did the Browns pull this crime off? Gocong and Brown will both be immediate upgrades on the Browns defense and they got them for virtually nothing.

I don't understand the logic from Philly here at all. They cannot posibly value Alex Hall that much.

[Giantsfan1080]

Good get Sheldon out of here.

[jriles0522]

Thanks for the link. Good for the Browns, not sure what I think from the Eagles standpoint though. Gocong looks like he was worthless to them and Sheldon was unhappy, so I guess it works for them as well. My only concern is how much Sheldon has left in the tank.


Doesn't matter. Gocong should be great in the 3-4. Have high hopes for him.

Brown isn't the long term corner answer, everyone knows that. But he should be able to be a quality starter for a year or two while the young guy we bring in gets experience and plays in the nickel. Doubt we'd bring in a first rounder like Haden to do that now though.

We still have how many 5th rounders? At least 3? So thats not a big deal. We still have our 1, 2, 3, 3, 3. That's huge. Can't believe we got out of this without giving up a decent player and a third. Alex Hall was worthless.

Looks like we are going for Berry, Thomas, or Dez Bryant. WR is still the position Holmgren said we needed to address, but haven't yet.

[M.O.T.H.]

I think they said, the deal hinges on Sheldon getting a new contract. So he can for sure be a "longer" term option. He's 31 but, still plays at a very high level. Probably going to see an extension fairly early in this process.

[fear the elf]

Doesn't matter. Gocong should be great in the 3-4. Have high hopes for him.

Brown isn't the long term corner answer, everyone knows that. But he should be able to be a quality starter for a year or two while the young guy we bring in gets experience and plays in the nickel. Doubt we'd bring in a first rounder like Haden to do that now though.

We still have how many 5th rounders? At least 3? So thats not a big deal. We still have our 1, 2, 3, 3, 3. That's huge. Can't believe we got out of this without giving up a decent player and a third. Alex Hall was worthless.

Looks like we are going for Berry, Thomas, or Dez Bryant. WR is still the position Holmgren said we needed to address, but haven't yet.

I totally agree. I think the Eagles perceived Gocong as worthless (since he was replaced by a rookie last season), but he can be valuable to us either in a rotation or by winning the starting job at OLB outright. Sheldon is an obvious upgrade and allows McDonald to slip into the slot, which he should be able to handle. Great for us. I'd love to get Berry and finish off what could be a really good secondary.

[Shane P. Hallam]

Good deal for both sides in my opinion. I now wonder what happens if Berry isn't on the board for the Browns...

[Bengals78]

Good deal for both sides in my opinion. I now wonder what happens if Berry isn't on the board for the Browns...

He wont be because the Bengals are obviously trading up for him.....

If they get Eric Berry and we miss out on Earl Thomas, I will probably go into spastic seizures and cry myself into depression.

[keylime_5]

Good deal for both sides in my opinion. I now wonder what happens if Berry isn't on the board for the Browns...

really. would they take a guy like Clausen, Spiller, Haden, or even Trent Williams (who they are said to like) despite 7 being far too high to take a guy to be a pure right tackle. IMO if Berry is gone they desperately try to trade down like they did last year when Curry was taken.

[bhaarat316]

Don't get hyped up for Gocong. He might be a better fit for the 3-4 Olb, but other than trying to run past the OT he doesn't offer much in moves or technique. He may just end up being a good role player.

[bhaarat316]

really. would they take a guy like Clausen, Spiller, Haden, or even Trent Williams (who they are said to like) despite 7 being far too high to take a guy to be a pure right tackle. IMO if Berry is gone they desperately try to trade down like they did last year when Curry was taken.

RT, in a division where the defensive have great pass rushers on both sides, wouldn't be to bad a move.

[keylime_5]

even still, if you look at the stats from over the years, the overwhelming majority of sacks come from teams' weakside pass rushers, and the overwhelming amount of sacks given up come from teams' blindside. There's a reason teams pay so much for left tackles and pass rushing defensive ends or outside linebackers. Teams never take right tackles that high b/c you can have a guy do all the things a RT has to do for a lot less. If a team did take a right tackle that high then it would be with the intent of moving him to the blindside eventually, but with Joe Thomas being a Brown for life in all likelihood that's not gonna be the case.

....though I must admit an offensive line with Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, and Trent Williams would be ridiculous.

[scottyboy]

even still, if you look at the stats from over the years, the overwhelming majority of sacks come from teams' weakside pass rushers, and the overwhelming amount of sacks given up come from teams' blindside. There's a reason teams pay so much for left tackles and pass rushing defensive ends or outside linebackers. Teams never take right tackles that high b/c you can have a guy do all the things a RT has to do for a lot less. If a team did take a right tackle that high then it would be with the intent of moving him to the blindside eventually, but with Joe Thomas being a Brown for life in all likelihood that's not gonna be the case.

....though I must admit an offensive line with Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, and Trent Williams would be ridiculous.

that OL would be filthy. you guys could really grab Davis, Bulaga or Williams. Davis and Trent could man down the RT spot nicely. Building through the trenches FTW!

but who knows, you've got options, and OL starved teams may be looking to move up. Could the browns be on the rise under the Walrus? hmmmmm

[eaglesalltheway]

I really, really don't get this trade on the Eagles part. How does this make any sense?

[bigbluedefense]

Wow. The Eagles got ROBBED.

A 4th and a 5th and a cheeseburger for Brown? Thats highway robbery. Brown is an unbelievable CB.

I can see this making sense if the Eagles nab Nmandi, but unless they do, that secondary takes a huge hit.

If the Eagles don't land Nmandi, they're basically admitting that this is a rebuilding year.


Granted, Brown is old and the Eagles are great at knowing exactly when to let go of aging players, but still, I rather keep him for another year and try to make a run than land a 4th and a 5th for such a quality player. I personally think Brown has like 2 years left in him at least.

Brown was the best CB in the East last year.

[fear the elf]

that OL would be filthy. you guys could really grab Davis, Bulaga or Williams. Davis and Trent could man down the RT spot nicely. Building through the trenches FTW!

but who knows, you've got options, and OL starved teams may be looking to move up. Could the browns be on the rise under the Walrus? hmmmmm

goo goo ga joob, ************.

[RealityCheck]

This new Eagles GM is screwing the team.

[eaglesalltheway]

Wow. The Eagles got ROBBED.

A 4th and a 5th and a cheeseburger for Brown? Thats highway robbery. Brown is an unbelievable CB.

I can see this making sense if the Eagles nab Nmandi, but unless they do, that secondary takes a huge hit.

If the Eagles don't land Nmandi, they're basically admitting that this is a rebuilding year.


Granted, Brown is old and the Eagles are great at knowing exactly when to let go of aging players, but still, I rather keep him for another year and try to make a run than land a 4th and a 5th for such a quality player. I personally think Brown has like 2 years left in him at least.

Brown was the best CB in the East last year.

Its like I said in the Eagles forum, the only way this makes any sense for the Eagles is if they expect to get a relatively high pick, as well as Aso, in a MCNabb trade. If not, this is definitely a rebuilding year.

[bigbluedefense]

Its like I said in the Eagles forum, the only way this makes any sense for the Eagles is if they expect to get a relatively high pick, as well as Aso, in a MCNabb trade. If not, this is definitely a rebuilding year.

even then though, i see no point of giving up Sheldon for a 4th and a 5th. I mean really? A 4th and a 5th is worth that much more to the the team than having Sheldon for 1 or 2 more years?

You can draft his replacement or bring in Aso while still having Sheldon. And how sick would that be? Instead, now, its like a lateral move almost at best.

I just see no reason to accept so little for such a quality player.

[RealityCheck]

A 4th and a 5th and a cheeseburger for Brown?
Alex Hall is a pretty tasty cheeseburger.

[eagles6606]

This new Eagles GM is screwing the team.

Don't forget its really Andy and Joe Banner who make the decisions, not Howie Roseman.

[RealityCheck]

Don't forget its really Andy and Joe Banner who make the decisions, not Howie Roseman.
However, it seems that Roseman is being screwed and screwing the team at the same time.

Confusing.

[diabsoule]

Don't forget its really Andy and Joe Banner who make the decisions, not Howie Roseman.

Then Andy and Joe Banner are really double-penetrating the Eagles in a non-consensual way and Roseman is holding the video camera and pressing record while it happens.

[BaLLiN]

However, it seems that Roseman is being screwed and screwing the team at the same time.

Confusing.

thats called a threesome

[WinslowBodden]

if Berry is gone then Spiller, Bryant, etc. sound good. Not so sure we'd take those guys though. I think they'd try to trade up or down aggresively to get a guy they really want instead. Earl Thomas could be one to watch.

I had a dream i missed the draft and we got Clausen.

ITS DESTINY.

I also had a dream I punched a kid out on the golf course I work at because he took his cart off the cart path.

[WinslowBodden]

Also for the draft, no way we grab Spiller with Harrison, Hillis, Davis, and Jennings... Harrison/Hillis have shown that they both have something as well as Jennings and Davis was drafted last year and hyped pretty well.

Browns should either grab a RT, Bryant, or Berry with the first pick UNLESS they think Clausen is the answer.

[fear the elf]

I had a dream i missed the draft and we got Clausen.

ITS DESTINY.

I also had a dream I punched a kid out on the golf course I work at because he took his cart off the cart path.

I used to work at a golf course too. ************* always ******* up something with those carts. I miss it sometimes tho.

[fear the elf]

Also for the draft, no way we grab Spiller with Harrison, Hillis, Davis, and Jennings... Harrison/Hillis have shown that they both have something as well as Jennings and Davis was drafted last year and hyped pretty well.

Browns should either grab a RT, Bryant, or Berry with the first pick UNLESS they think Clausen is the answer.

I agree about Spiller, I don't think he should/will be the guy at 7. If Berry isn't there, it would be ideal to move down like last year, even if we get bashed for taking too little in the trade again.

[bigbluedefense]

Hell, I could see the Browns taking McClain before Spiller.

I think Berry is a lock for them if he's still on the board though.

[Kramer]

This makes no sense unless we get Asomugha in a McNabb trade, but like bigblue said I thought that we could get more compensation for Sheldon Brown. However, the Eagles don’t strike out on trades too often, I trust their instinct.

[thetedginnshow]

I always thought Gocong should've played in a 3-4.

[princefielder28]

I don't think this trade is as bad as some are making out to be. Sheldon Brown was a very good corner for the Eagles but his play did decline towards the end of the last season and given his age and the fact that he wanted a new contract, this was probably the best time to move him. Could they have gotten more for him? I'm not so sure because how many teams want to pay an aging corner who is starting to show decline? I don't think too many especially for higher picks.

Chris Gocong didn't fit the Eagles' defense and outside of 2008 he was really a non-factor. I don't think acquiring Alex Hall was a better fit for the defense, but I think he's looked at more for his special teams potential.

This draft is plenty deep with secondary players and with Donovan McNabb possibly on the move, it's hard to tell what pieces will added and drafted before next season starts. If they don't fit a suitable replacement for Brown then it will be a failure, but at this point I don't think it was too bad of a deal for either side.

[Morton]

One thing to remember: as good as Brown was in the past for the team, he is 31 years old, suffering from a hamstring injury, and at best has 2 years left in the tank.

The position needed to be upgraded at some point anyway. Now we know that the there is a 95% chance the Eagles go DB in the first round - Kyle Wilson, Earl Thomas, Devin McCourty, or massive trade-up for Eric Berry.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

At this rate Oakland's going to get McNabb for a 3rd rounder and Stanford Routt.

[WinslowBodden]

At this rate Oakland's going to get McNabb for a 3rd rounder and Stanford Routt.

Or trade straight up for sorgi.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Or trade straight up for sorgi.

Championship.

[Thumper]

Ummmm wait... we really just traded a great athlete at SLB with potential to blow up in a 3-4 defense and our best corner for a scrub and some spare draft picks?!

ANDY THAT WAS SO ************* STUPID OF YOU TO DO!

EDIT: But this isn't a good deal for the Browns either. Eagles lose starting CB but the Browns are rebuilding and don't need a 31 year old CB

[J-Mike88]

All kidding aside, this is a very good deal for the Browns.

[Hines]

The Browns defense is really getting better. If they get Berry, they'll have three fourths of a very awesome secondary. Now only if they get a QB, they could be a sleeper team.

[Morton]

All kidding aside, this is a very good deal for the Browns.

It all depends on how much Brown has left in the tank.

There is a strong possibility that, at 31 years old with an injury history, he might have seen his last effective year in Philadlephia, and not Cleveland.

He really got worse down the stretch in 2009. He clearly has lost a step in coverage. I firmly believe that he's seen his best days as a corner.

[Cicero]

It all depends on how much Brown has left in the tank.

There is a strong possibility that, at 31 years old with an injury history, he might have seen his last effective year in Philadlephia, and not Cleveland.

He really got worse down the stretch in 2009. He clearly has lost a step in coverage. I firmly believe that he's seen his best days as a corner.

Hamstring injury, ever heard of one?

[PhysicalwithanF]

Lets all be honest here..the truly important implication of this trade is that Joe Haden could slide to the Niners. ..

[Splat]

Nice job Browns.

[WinslowBodden]

The Browns defense is really getting better. If they get Berry, they'll have three fourths of a very awesome secondary. Now only if they get a QB, they could be a sleeper team.

But we got Delhomme and Wallace whatta ya mean!?

[WinslowBodden]

It all depends on how much Brown has left in the tank.

There is a strong possibility that, at 31 years old with an injury history, he might have seen his last effective year in Philadlephia, and not Cleveland.

He really got worse down the stretch in 2009. He clearly has lost a step in coverage. I firmly believe that he's seen his best days as a corner.

Jesus christ man all you do is hate on the Browns.

WERE GONNA BE DEVESTATED BY THE LOSS OF ALEX HALL AND A 4TH AND 5TH.

[keylime_5]

yeah, I didn't know Art Modell was into the whole internet message board draft community.

[Thumper]

Jesus christ man all you do is hate on the Browns.

WERE GONNA BE DEVESTATED BY THE LOSS OF ALEX HALL AND A 4TH AND 5TH.

Gocong was garbage for us, he is really athletic and a former DE so maybe a 3-4 defense can fix him but I doubt it, he tested better than Merriman at the combine so he has the ability. Alex Hall is better than him though.

And Sheldon Brown is 31 and entering his 10th year in the NFL so it isn't like he is going to be around for a long time. He was abused at the end of last season, he gave up 3 touchdowns in the last 3 games and was overall just terrible. He was amazing for the first half but you could see him start to run out of gas, he turned from shutdown corner to turnstile as quickly as you possibly can. He'll probably start off hot again after he is rested but he sure isn't going to be a building block for your defense or anything.

[Cicero]

Gocong was garbage for us, he is really athletic and a former DE so maybe a 3-4 defense can fix him but I doubt it, he tested better than Merriman at the combine so he has the ability. Alex Hall is better than him though.

And Sheldon Brown is 31 and entering his 10th year in the NFL so it isn't like he is going to be around for a long time. He was abused at the end of last season, he gave up 3 touchdowns in the last 3 games and was overall just terrible. He was amazing for the first half but you could see him start to run out of gas, he turned from shutdown corner to turnstile as quickly as you possibly can. He'll probably start off hot again after he is rested but he sure isn't going to be a building block for your defense or anything.

Again, hamstring injury? That kind of has that effect on CBs.

[Matthew Jones]

Good trade for the Browns. It seems like the Eagles are preparing to fill that other spot though. I think McNabb + something else for Asomugha would be a good trade for both teams at this point.

[Cicero]

Gocong was garbage for us, he is really athletic and a former DE so maybe a 3-4 defense can fix him but I doubt it, he tested better than Merriman at the combine so he has the ability. Alex Hall is better than him though.

And Sheldon Brown is 31 and entering his 10th year in the NFL so it isn't like he is going to be around for a long time. He was abused at the end of last season, he gave up 3 touchdowns in the last 3 games and was overall just terrible. He was amazing for the first half but you could see him start to run out of gas, he turned from shutdown corner to turnstile as quickly as you possibly can. He'll probably start off hot again after he is rested but he sure isn't going to be a building block for your defense or anything.

Ummmm wait... we really just traded a great athlete at SLB with potential to blow up in a 3-4 defense and our best corner for a scrub and some spare draft picks?!

ANDY THAT WAS SO ************* STUPID OF YOU TO DO!

What changed in the last two hours?

[Thumper]

Again, hamstring injury? That kind of has that effect on CBs.

Right, I'm just saying its not like they pulled one over on the Eagles, Sheldon Brown is 31 and struggled at the end of last year.

[A Perfect Score]

What changed in the last two hours?

This made me laugh very hard. Ahhhh, the concept of homer logic will forever amuse me.

[WinslowBodden]

What changed in the last two hours?

I was gonna quote the same thing ROFL.

[WinslowBodden]

Ummmm wait... we really just traded a great athlete at SLB with potential to blow up in a 3-4 defense and our best corner for a scrub and some spare draft picks?!

Right, I'm just saying its not like they pulled one over on the Eagles, Sheldon Brown is 31 and struggled at the end of last year.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You have to be kidding me.

[Thumper]

What changed in the last two hours?

Nothing. I still like Sheldon Brown and I think it was dumb to trade him for so little but it isn't like the Browns just got some super stud because they didn't. Sheldon is 31 and struggled at the end of last season, he is a good player and I really like him but the Browns didn't pull of a mega-steal, they got a good aging/veteran player for some mid round picks and a young linebacker. Right now it looks like the Eagles lost on this deal but don't think Sheldon is going to be the same Sheldon Brown as he has been.

[WinslowBodden]

We got one of the best veteran cornerbacks in the league to pair up with one of the very good young cornerbacks in the league, sounds pretty ******* fantastic to me.

[Cicero]

Nothing. I still like Sheldon Brown and I think it was dumb to trade him for so little but it isn't like the Browns just got some super stud because they didn't. Sheldon is 31 and struggled at the end of last season, he is a good player and I really like him but the Browns didn't pull of a mega-steal, they got a good aging/veteran player for some mid round picks and a young linebacker. Right now it looks like the Eagles lost on this deal but don't think Sheldon is going to be the same Sheldon Brown as he has been.

You can't just play off going from swearing and posting in all caps to saying Sheldon Brown is probably no good anymore and the trade wasn't that bad.

[wonderbredd24]

I don't like the trade for the Browns.

We got a 26 year old, 5 year veteran who has 4 career sacks. Yea, he might be a better fit in the 3-4 as I liked him coming out of Cal-Poly, but I think the Browns could have gotten someone just as good in the 4th or 5th round while being 3-5 years younger. Marcus Benard, for example, was an undrafted free agent with 3.5 sacks in 6 games last year.

Sheldon Brown is a good corner, but he's 31. Is he going to be around when the Browns are making any kind of meaningful push towards the playoffs? I tend to doubt it.

I hope that if Berry is off the board, this doesn't rule out Joe Haden for our pick. I think that'd be silly.

Alex Hall was a nice athlete, but he never did anything, so he won't be missed, but I'd rather have kept the draft picks.

I'm inclined to believe that the Eagles were willing to create a hole in their defense because they wanted to get rid of Brown a year too early than a year too late.

[bigbluedefense]

It was a steal. Gocong is going to be somewhat decent at least in a 3-4, he might be even pretty good in a 3-4 scheme.

Sheldon is a stud veteran CB who has a couple of years left in the tank and brings winning pedigree to a team who needs some veteran leadership.


And all they did was trade a bag of peanuts for that. It was robbery.

[superman8456]

We got one of the best veteran cornerbacks in the league to pair up with one of the very good young cornerbacks in the league, sounds pretty ******* fantastic to me.

Yes, but they're only as good as your pass rush allows them to be. Oh, ****. I guess the Browns are still ****** then.

[Thumper]

You can't just play off going from swearing and posting in all caps to saying Sheldon Brown is no good anymore and the trade wasn't that bad.

Oh it was a bad trade in the short-run, but I can't let Browns fans think they got a super steal because they really didn't, calm down, the Browns still suck fat *****. Congrats, you got a solid veteran player, but he is 31 and isn't going to get better and he provides little to no long term value. Had this trade been to a contender, this would be a steal but Brown literally brings nothing to a rebuilding team.

[Splat]

It all depends on how much Brown has left in the tank.

There is a strong possibility that, at 31 years old with an injury history, he might have seen his last effective year in Philadlephia, and not Cleveland.

He really got worse down the stretch in 2009. He clearly has lost a step in coverage. I firmly believe that he's seen his best days as a corner.

What ever makes you feel better about the trade.

[broth223]

1. When Thumper and Sniper agree on something about the eagles it pretty much has to be true.

2. It is obvious that the Eagles are getting ready to start over again. They have been ready for it for years now. Look at all the veteran talent that they have unloaded in the past two off seasons. I dare not even try to list the names but it is easily more than half the starters/primary backups (NBs 2nd RBs). They are jumping head first into rebuilding going to start over with the great core or young talent and will rebuild in 2 years so they will have half a shot at a deep playoff run in 3 years and get Andy Reid another contract extension.

[superman8456]

What ever makes you feel better about the trade.

Why would they trade Sheldon for so cheap? Intentionally **** themselves over? I doubt it. They know what he has left in the tank and what he brings to the table. If the FO thinks hes going to be washed up next season, Im plenty happy with them at least getting something in return.

[keylime_5]

Alex Hall isn't better than Chris Gocong. That's not saying much still. Hall got passed up by Marcus Benard late last year and was behind Roth, Wimbley, Benard at OLB, all this after David Bowens moved from OLB to ILB. Hall probably wouldn't have made the final cuts this year.

And regarding "not liking the trade for the Browns" - we gave up a 4th and 5th for a good cornerback and another rotational linebacker...it's a win win situation. We weren't gonna get that with those draft picks. Even if Brown plays the 3 years he's signed on for and is anywhere close to what he's been the last few years it was worth it. Without Brown we have Brandon "I should be 4th string" McDonald starting at RCB and are pretty much forced to draft a CB in round 2 if not in round 1.

Regarding knowing what he has left in the tank, I think Tom Heckert has an idea about that too. If Philly thinks he only has 2 good years left, I'm sure Heckert knows that.

[Morton]

It was not a great deal by any means for the Eagles.

BUT

If you're a Browns fan, don't think for a moment you just got Derelle Revis or anything like that for cheap. Sheldon is a 31 year old CB who has 2 years more left in the tank, MAX, and he really struggled down the stretch last year, so you're basically getting a potential starter with some serious question marks who will be with the team for 1-2 years at best, in all likelihood.

I think the Eagles would have been smart to get higher picks for him, as in possibly a 3rd round pick, but he was likely to be cut in 2011 or thereabouts anyway, and it's good to get something for guys instead of just cutting them outright.

Gocong is a marginal starter who may or may not contribute in the Browns 3-4, but he's definitely not getting the job done in Philly after 3-4 years.

[Sniper]

I didn't like how one of my favorite football teams was getting raped by a team in the state of Ohio. I'm certainly not enjoying the double penetration from Ohio. Thanks a lot, Reid.

[Morton]

Again, if Sheldon Brown defies all odds and plays on a high level well into his 30s (doesn't happen that often for CBs who rely on their speed more than any other position) without injury, then yes, the Browns definitely fleeced the Eagles.

But if Sheldon plays 1-2 more years and struggles at times with faster receivers, gets beat deep, (as he did in 2009 for the Eagles) and then eventually gets cut in 2011, I'd say it was a good move by the Eagles to get SOME value for him while they still could.

Again, the value of this trade all depends on what exactly Sheldon has left in his 31-year-old tank. We won't know until the 2010 season is over, really.

[keylime_5]

I don't think anyone said they expect us to get Charles Woodson or Darrelle Revis or anything. We get a pro bowl cornerback who has at least a couple good years left, and could be a nickelback or starting safety for us after that perhaps....and we also got a guy that our Mangini loved coming out of college and gets to utilize him in a system that Gocong is much better suited to play in - all for a 4th and 5th round pick and a project linebacker who was buried on the depth chart. We have 3 3rd-round picks and 3 5th-round picks after that trade still. We gave up very very little for something that is pretty darn good at worst. Last year we had to put safety Mike Adams at cornerback after Brandon McDonald's poor poor play. We had no starting quality guys at DB behind Elam and Wright, and Elam is just average.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I'm sorry, but even if Brown did wear down late last season he was still one of the best 5 or 6 cornerbacks when he was playing well last season. There's no doubt that the Browns got the better end of this deal.

It makes you wonder if Philly has plans to bring in another cornerback and didn't want to deal with Brown throwing a shitfit over it, but I somehow doubt that the said corner will be Asomugha.

[Morton]

I don't think anyone said they expect us to get Charles Woodson or Darrelle Revis or anything. We get a pro bowl cornerback who has at least a couple good years left, and could be a nickelback or starting safety for us after that perhaps....and we also got a guy that our Mangini loved coming out of college and gets to utilize him in a system that Gocong is much better suited to play in - all for a 4th and 5th round pick and a project linebacker who was buried on the depth chart. We have 3 3rd-round picks and 3 5th-round picks after that trade still. We gave up very very little for something that is pretty darn good at worst. Last year we had to put safety Mike Adams at cornerback after Brandon McDonald's poor poor play. We had no starting quality guys at DB behind Elam and Wright, and Elam is just average.

"at least a couple of good years left" is very optimistic. There is a good chance that Sheldon's play falls dramatically next year. He went from elite in 2008 to above average with some bad moments in 2009, to be honest. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's even worse in 2010.

Again, he'd have to really defy the odds to be a solid starter for more than the next 1-2 years.

[Thumper]

Alex Hall isn't better than Chris Gocong. That's not saying much still. Hall got passed up by Marcus Benard late last year and was behind Roth, Wimbley, Benard at OLB, all this after David Bowens moved from OLB to ILB. Hall probably wouldn't have made the final cuts this year.

Gocong was beaten out by Moses Fokou a 7th round rookie and likely wasn't making it out of training camp either. We just traded scrubs, the deal is essentially a 4&5 for Brown.

Gocong and Hall are toss ins, Heckert like Gocong and Savage (who is now an assistant for the Eagles) likes Hall.

[keylime_5]

he had injury issues last year and has been a fantastic player the past few years. You don't need as much speed and quickness to play safety as you do corner - which are two things you lose a bit as you get older - and Brown's game translates well to safety ala Aaron Glenn, Rod Woodson, Ty Law, etc. at the end of their careers. Very low risk trade for the Browns with the potential of getting great results.

[keylime_5]

Gocong was beaten out by Moses Fokou a 7th round rookie and likely wasn't making it out of training camp either. We just traded scrubs, the deal is essentially a 4&5 for Brown.

Gocong and Hall are toss ins, Heckert like Gocong and Savage (who is now an assistant for the Eagles) likes Hall.

yeah, that is essentially it. Mangini and Heckert wanted Gocong a lot to play in their 3-4 where his lack of pass coverage skills won't really be a big problem like they are in a four man-fronted defense. Gocong still has reasonable upside though and I think he has more trade value than Hall.

[superman8456]

Gocong is a marginal starter who may or may not contribute in the Browns 3-4, but he's definitely not getting the job done in Philly after 3-4 years.

Gocong was a good player, but just misused his whole career. Jim Johnson knew how to make up for his deficiencies in coverage, but McDermott had no idea what to do with him. Much like Chris Clemons, who was also traded earlier this offseason. His stats definitely dont tell you the whole story.

[Thumper]

I've done some reading up on Alex Hall and everything says he has upside, Daniel Jeremiah (former Browns scout) said he is really raw but has "excellent athletic ability" You guys (Browns fans) watched him for 2 years, can he cover? What is he good at? Everything I'm reading just talks about his potential and athletic ability. He seemed like he had a good rookie season, 3 sacks is alright.

[keylime_5]

He's a 6'5", long and lanky pass rusher who showed promise early in his rookie season especially in training camp (had 3 sacks in like his first 5 career games or so) but disappaered after that and never shows up in games. Rob Ryan said he liked the potential of the kid last year, but he again failed to do anything at all during the season and his playing time went to undrafted rookie Marcus Benard down the stretch when the defense was playing well. redbills came asking what I thought his trade value was a few weeks ago and I told him he was worth a late round pick at best since he wasn't likely to survive training camp this year. I guess he still has upside though if he can ever turn that athletic ability into pass rushing production. Not high chance of that happening though I guess.

[WinslowBodden]

Yes, but they're only as good as your pass rush allows them to be. Oh, ****. I guess the Browns are still ****** then.

Oh I see what you did there.

You got rocked in the trade, screw off.

[keylime_5]

Yes, but they're only as good as your pass rush allows them to be. Oh, ****. I guess the Browns are still ****** then.

you know the Browns had 40 sacks last year....Eagles had 44.

[Thumper]

Oh I see what you did there.

You got rocked in the trade, screw off.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uFYCyuokyTY/SvSq9EYfRlI/AAAAAAAAAg8/nHCd2BIJKyE/s320/browns_suck_feature.jpg

[Thumper]

He's a 6'5", long and lanky pass rusher who showed promise early in his rookie season especially in training camp (had 3 sacks in like his first 5 career games or so) but disappaered after that and never shows up in games. Rob Ryan said he liked the potential of the kid last year, but he again failed to do anything at all during the season and his playing time went to undrafted rookie Marcus Benard down the stretch when the defense was playing well. redbills came asking what I thought his trade value was a few weeks ago and I told him he was worth a late round pick at best since he wasn't likely to survive training camp this year. I guess he still has upside though if he can ever turn that athletic ability into pass rushing production. Not high chance of that happening though I guess.

Can he cover? He is apparently being brought in to compete with Fokou for the starting SLB job, being able to cover is fairly important, more important than our SLB getting sacks, if he can cover then that makes him an upgrade over Gocong.

[keylime_5]

Well he's a 6'5"/250 lb. converted DE so pass coverage isn't gonna be as natural for him. However he is extraordinarily athletic and he bends exceptionally well for a guy with that kind of frame. He wasn't asked to cover as much in Cleveland as he will be in Philadelphia, at least not in the same way, so that remains to be seen.

[bhaarat316]

Are you serious he was a DE before ahhahaha, wow trade one DE/LB hybrid for another.

Gocong, might be better suited for the 3-4, but his lack of push rush moves and technique only lead to him being a back up.

[Brown Leader]

Can he cover? He is apparently being brought in to compete with Fokou for the starting SLB job, being able to cover is fairly important, more important than our SLB getting sacks, if he can cover then that makes him an upgrade over Gocong.

Real similar to Kam Wimbley imo. Better in space however. He's got good fluidity in the open field and I often wondered if he'd be a better 40 front jumbo OLB. He made one notable play in preseason where he intercepted with his hands and ran it in for a score, and looked fluid doing it. As a pass rusher he simply can't get off blocks. He was supposed to be working on his strength but was leapfrogged by rookie Bernard. When he does get there he packs some nasty, though. He'll have a lot to learn to see good playing time at OLB. I'd say he's a developmental Fujita.

[M.O.T.H.]

The Browns defense is really getting better. If they get Berry, they'll have three fourths of a very awesome secondary. Now only if they get a QB, they could be a sleeper team.

And like 4 or 5 receivers.

[Thumper]

Real similar to Kam Wimbley imo. Better in space however. He's got good fluidity in the open field and I often wondered if he'd be a better 40 front jumbo OLB. He made one notable play in preseason where he intercepted with his hands and ran it in for a score, and looked fluid doing it. As a pass rusher he simply can't get off blocks. He was supposed to be working on his strength but was leapfrogged by rookie Bernard. When he does get there he packs some nasty, though. He'll have a lot to learn to see good playing time at OLB. I'd say he's a developmental Fujita.

Thank god. Hopefully the Eagles coaches can turn him into an effective SLB in the 43 defense. He doesn't need to be able to get to the pass rusher in the Eagles scheme. I am really hoping you're right.

[Rosebud]

Just gotta say this is some of the best news I've heard all offseason long, getting rid of our divisions best corner FTW.

[WinslowBodden]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uFYCyuokyTY/SvSq9EYfRlI/AAAAAAAAAg8/nHCd2BIJKyE/s320/browns_suck_feature.jpg

Yeah that's me after reading your posts in this thread going from freaking out to saying that Sheldon Brown isn't really that good and Gocong (made for a 3-4 but in your 4-3) isn't going to be anything for the Browns.

[Sniper]

Eagles got bent over and raped. End of story.

[Thumper]

Yeah that's me after reading your posts in this thread going from freaking out to saying that Sheldon Brown isn't really that good and Gocong (made for a 3-4 but in your 4-3) isn't going to be anything for the Browns.

Nope Brown is good, he just has no place on the Browns. The Browns are rebuilding, they have no place for 31 year old CB. It really isn't a good deal for the Browns either, they get a good veteran but he won't be around for when they finally get good enough to compete. Brown is going to waste away on the Browns, his talents are still there but he is starting to fade and he should've went to a contender, not a perennial bottom feeder.

http://allthingsignant.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/browns-suck.jpg

[Rosebud]

Nope Brown is good, he just has no place on the Browns. The Browns are rebuilding, they have no place for 31 year old CB. It really isn't a good deal for the Browns either, they get a good veteran but he won't be around for when they finally get good enough to compete. Brown is going to waste away on the Browns, his talents are still there but he is starting to fade and he should've went to a contender, not a perennial bottom feeder.

http://allthingsignant.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/browns-suck.jpg

They gave up nothing for an elite stopgap, seriously who better where they going to find to fill in opposite Wright until they've filled out the rest of the roster? It's a great deal for the Browns, it's a ****** deal for Sheldon and the Iggles, but for the browns it's great, lets them focus on other needs this year.

[WinslowBodden]

http://allthingsignant.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/browns-suck.jpg

We traded a 4th 5th and someone who would never see the field on our team for a top 10 corner in the league and someone who has a good chance of possibly starting on our team. And on top of it, you were FURIOUS earlier.

EDIT : On top of it, this will be a great veteran leader for our secondary and someone for Eric Wright to learn from, this is fantastic for us. Not saying you can't hit in the draft but I'll take the veteran leader who is proven and a great player still for the 4th and 5th.

EDIT EDIT : AND WHY THE **** WOULD YOU TRADE AWAY A PLAYER LIKE SHELDON BROWN IF YOURE TRYING TO MAKE PLAYOFF/SUPER BOWL PUSHES?

http://hershco.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/eagles_fan.jpg

[Thumper]

We traded a 4th 5th and someone who would never see the field on our team for a top 10 corner in the league and someone who has a good chance of possibly starting on our team. And on top of it, you were FURIOUS earlier.

EDIT : On top of it, this will be a great veteran leader for our secondary and someone for Eric Wright to learn from, this is fantastic for us. Not saying you can't hit in the draft but I'll take the veteran leader who is proven and a great player still for the 4th and 5th.

EDIT EDIT : AND WHY THE **** WOULD YOU TRADE AWAY A PLAYER LIKE SHELDON BROWN IF YOURE TRYING TO MAKE PLAYOFF/SUPER BOWL PUSHES?

http://hershco.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/eagles_fan.jpg

Sheldon top 10? Borderline at best. And I wasn't mad about losing him, I was expecting him to leave, I was more mad at how little the Eagles got in return. I've known for months the Eagles would go corner in round 1 and they could be choosing between Kyle Wilson, Kareem Jackson, Devin McCourty and Patrick Robinson at #24. I don't care that Sheldon is gone, I was expecting at least a third round pick in return.

http://blog.cleveland.com/plutoblog_impact/2008/09/braydrophoriz.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/_photos/2006-04-26-kellen.jpg
http://media.pegasusnews.com/pegasus/img/photos/2008/01/24/browns_t520.jpg
http://www.brady-quinn.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/clipboard-5.jpg
http://imgsrv.wgr550.com/image/wgr/UserFiles/Image/Ray-Lewis-Super-Bowl-XXXV-MVP---Photofile-Photograph-C10053159.jpg
The team wins a superbowl four years after leaving town and you're left with this trainwreck of a team... ouch...

[Sniper]

Sheldon top 10?

Sheldon was rated No. 1 in the league for the first half of the year, so yes, it's pretty goddamn feasible that he's top 10. Stop with the ******* sour grapes, eaglesfan45, and ******* sack up and admit that the Eagles got raped.

[WinslowBodden]

You're a real classy poster, you get robbed in a train, freak out like a four year old, start posting stuff about our franchise to talk **** to make yourself feel better and on top of it try to act like the trade really isn't that big of a deal.

Oh by the way...

Browns super bowl titles = 0

Eagles super bowl titles = 0

Edit : Sniper is right btw, you're acting like a child.

[keylime_5]

nice to see all the mature team bashing in this thread.

[Sniper]

You're a real classy poster, you get robbed in a train, freak out like a four year old, start posting stuff about our franchise to talk **** to make yourself feel better and on top of it try to act like the trade really isn't that big of a deal.

Oh by the way...

Browns super bowl titles = 0

Eagles super bowl titles = 0

Fo realz. He's acting like the Eagles won seven titles or something. Maybe in his third user name, he'll have a different schtick.

[Hines]

You're a real classy poster, you get robbed in a train, freak out like a four year old, start posting stuff about our franchise to talk **** to make yourself feel better and on top of it try to act like the trade really isn't that big of a deal.

Oh by the way...

Browns super bowl titles = 0

Eagles super bowl titles = 0

Edit : Sniper is right btw, you're acting like a child.

Steelers super bowl titles= 6

:D

I just had to.

[M.O.T.H.]

If you need to go back and look again to know that Sheldon Brown is the best you have obviously been detached from the reasonable football world. Really? The man might be the best corner in the NFL right now. In two seasons he has given up 2 touchdowns, 1 on a fade to Fitz that no one in the history of the NFL could've defended in the playoffs and 1 to Miles Austin where Sean Jones epically failed in over the top coverage.

Here let me give you some numbers alright.

Last season, Brown was on lockdown.
Season Totals: 63 attempts, 4.84 YPA, 44.44 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

and this year there are no decent stats out there but I know he has been shut down all season aside from one play (Miles Austin) and he has 13 passes defended and 5 interceptions (which is a career high).

Also if I could take back my vote for Asante I would, I voted for Asante on the idea that he did a decent job in coverage and made more plays but this season Sheldon Brown has made plays in coverage, shut his man down every game and has made great tackles and is probably the 2nd best tackling corner in the NFL.

You severely underestimate Sheldon Brown.

Also IMO Corey Webster is no longer in the discussion, he is getting absolutely abused out there now and by Roy Williams no less. The last few times I've watched him he has given up at least one touchdown.

Oh geez....

[Thumper]

Sheldon was rated No. 1 in the league for the first half of the year, so yes, it's pretty goddamn feasible that he's top 10. Stop with the ******* sour grapes, eaglesfan45, and ******* sack up and admit that the Eagles got raped.

Woah, calm the hell down, who was even talking to you? Calm the **** down. I realize it was a bad trade, and who cares if Sheldon was top 10 through the first half of the season, he let up 5 touchdowns in the second half of the season, you have to play well the entire season, not just half of it and Sheldon was raped repeatedly against the Cowboys. Dumb ass trade but the Browns fans need ****, your team still sucks balls, congrats you get to watch Sheldon waste away. Merry ******* christmas! Sheldon is useless to the Browns, he should've been traded to a contender because then he could actually provide value to a team and it would be more respectful of the Eagles to do it for the guy who suited up every day, played hard, played hurt and was a good teammate, they just screwed Sheldon over by sending him to that crap shoot of an organization in Cleveland. Yeah the Eagles didn't get a good deal, but the Browns still suck ass and they're not a 'sleeper' team and it will be a long time before they will be.

[Sniper]

Oh geez....

/thread...

[WinslowBodden]

Steelers super bowl titles= 6

:D

I just had to.

I have to hear it all the time from Steelers fans don't worry.

First day back at golf course working one of my co-workers go "Sup Delhomo" and I respond "Hows it going Roethlisraper"

[Hines]

I have to hear it all the time from Steelers fans don't worry.

First day back at golf course working one of my co-workers go "Sup Delhomo" and I respond "Hows it going Roethlisraper"

Haha. Rivalries are always fun. I have to deal with Cardinal, Cowboy, and Raider fans here.

[WinslowBodden]

Oh geez....

Dude, thumper is extremely intelligent. He never backtracks on anything he says, he isn't a homer at all and above all he is a classy poster that doesn't act like hes a freshman in high school.

[Thumper]

Oh geez....

That was before Sheldon Brown turned into a turnstile late in the season, look at the post date. That means it was before he let up 3 touchdowns in 2 weeks. He struggled late last season, a lot.

[WinslowBodden]

That was before Sheldon Brown turned into a turnstile late in the season, look at the post date. That means it was before he let up 3 touchdowns in 2 weeks. He struggled late last season, a lot.

"Brown wanted a new contract from Philadelphia last season, and despite his unhappiness over the contract, Brown played through a hamstring injury last year and recorded a career-best five interceptions."

[scottyboy]

ok, why'd someone bring up a mccourty to eagles possibility? why? WHY?
now that's my nightmare until the draft. thanks a lot. ****

[Hines]

Just because a corner gets beat, doesn't mean they aren't good. Revis got beat a few times this season and I wouldn't call him terrible.

[M.O.T.H.]

That was December 17th..a good 14 weeks into the season. Knocked him out of the top 10 that fast, huh?

[Sniper]

Just because a corner gets beat, doesn't mean they aren't good. Revis got beat a few times this season and I wouldn't call him terrible.

Revis got beat by Ted Ginn. TED ******* GINN!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't matter that we're trading everyone because WE HAZ KOLBZ 300 YARDZ GAMESZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

[scottyboy]

That was before Sheldon Brown turned into a turnstile late in the season, look at the post date. That means it was before he let up 3 touchdowns in 2 weeks. He struggled late last season, a lot.

you've flip flopped more than a bad politician in this thread. this immature team bashing and borderline attacks need to stop and we can talk more about how the eagles got railed hard in this deal.

[Hines]

Revis got beat by Ted Ginn. TED ******* GINN!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't matter that we're trading everyone because WE HAZ KOLBZ 300 YARDZ GAMESZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Revis sucks. He isn't a top 10 corner because he got beat!

[Sniper]

Revis sucks. He isn't a top 10 corner because he got beat!

By Ted Ginn, whose route-running ability is still only comprised of five routes.

[WinslowBodden]

By Ted Ginn, whose route-running ability is still only comprised of five routes.

And they're all streaks lined up in different spots of the field.

[Thumper]

That was December 17th..a good 14 weeks into the season. Knocked him out of the top 10 that fast, huh?

Actually it was December 7th

[WinslowBodden]

Actually it was December 7th

How old are you 15... 16?

[M.O.T.H.]

Actually it was December 7th

My apologies then.

[WinslowBodden]

My apologies then.

Yeah that one week was a huge difference in the career of Sheldon Brown.

I mean that one extra week was able to change his impression on a life long Eagle who had played amazing all year into a negative impression all based on those 10 days.

[Sniper]

My apologies then.

SO THERE!!!!!!!!

One week earlier clearly takes away from the point of the argument.

[MetSox17]

Thumper = Eaglesfan45?!?!?!?!?!?!:eek:

[Sniper]

Thumper = Eaglesfan45?!?!?!?!?!?!

Got ourselves a winner.

[MetSox17]

Got ourselves a winner.

Well, i was asking actually since you brought it up, but how do you know? Man! I knew there was something about Thumper i hated!

[Thumper]

"Brown wanted a new contract from Philadelphia last season, and despite his unhappiness over the contract, Brown played through a hamstring injury last year and recorded a career-best five interceptions."

*While also letting up 5 touchdowns, tied for third most in the NFL.

Also Sniper, I am right, he is borderline top 10:

Revis, Charles Woodson, Leon Hall, Jabari Greer, Brandon Flowers, Jonathan Joseph, Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha and potentially Cory Webster, Terell Thomas, Asante Samuel and DRC are better than Sheldon. Borderline top 10.

[Sniper]

Champ Bailey, Cory Webster, Terell Thomas, Asante Samuel and DRC are better than Sheldon.

Stop it. Now this is getting absurd. There's a reason liquor is only for those 21 and over. It's so 16-year-old kids don't drink and post.

[WinslowBodden]

Stop it. Now this is getting absurd. There's a reason liquor is only for those 21 and over. It's so 16-year-old kids don't drink and post.

He's probably just jacked up on kool-aid.

[Thumper]

Well, i was asking actually since you brought it up, but how do you know? Man! I knew there was something about Thumper i hated!

Nope, Sniper just doesn't like me so he makes accusations, I don't even know what that accusation is but apparently it is a bad thing. I just always let it slide since I figured it was just something stupid.

[scottyboy]

*While also letting up 5 touchdowns, tied for third most in the NFL.

Also Sniper, I am right, he is borderline top 10:

Revis, Charles Woodson, Leon Hall, Jabari Greer, Brandon Flowers, Jonathan Joseph, Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha and potentially Cory Webster, Terell Thomas, Asante Samuel and DRC are better than Sheldon. Borderline top 10.

Jabrari Greer? like really? Jonathan Joseph?
And are you really that guy who hates a guy the DAY he's not on your team? an eagles fan saying 2 Giants CB's are better? how much does that pain you?

[Sniper]

He's probably just jacked up on kool-aid.

I'M ALL HOPPED UP ON MOUNTAIN DEW, CHIP!

Wait a sec...missed a couple on ef45's list. Brandon Flowers? Jabari Greer? Jon Joseph? En ******* serio?

Don't lie, ef45. You've confirmed it before.

[Morton]

If Sheldon defies the odds and has more than a year or two of elite play left in him, then the Browns got a pretty good deal. My hat's off to them. Still won't matter for the Browns' playoff hopes though, because again, they won't be making any playoff runs with Jake "turnover machine" Delhomme or Seneca Wallace, and if they draft a young QB this year, it will take more than 2 years to fully mature into a potential playoff QB, and by then Sheldon will most likely be out of the NFL.

If Sheldon falls off the cliff in 2010 and / or 2011, which is a strong possibility given his age and recent history as a CB who never had elite speed and is only getting slower with age, then the Browns traded away some late round picks and a player for, well, a situational pass rusher (Gocong).

Simple as that. Time will tell who get the better end of the bargain. We can't tell right now.

[M.O.T.H.]

Still no Jenkins love Thumper?

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1110/nfl_u_mjenkins1_600.jpg

eh? eh?

lol. Oh how this thread brings back memories of that long lasting, Best db in the NFC East thread, debacle. haha. Good times...well not really.

[Sniper]

Still no Jenkins love Thumper?

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1110/nfl_u_mjenkins1_600.jpg

eh? eh?

lol. Oh how this thread brings back memories of that long lasting, Best db in the NFC East thread, debacle. haha. Good times...well not really.

Show the pic of Maclin abusing him in the playoff game! Actually, don't. That game never happened.

[Thumper]

Stop it. Now this is getting absurd. There's a reason liquor is only for those 21 and over. It's so 16-year-old kids don't drink and post.

nice to see you cut out the word potentially in front of Thomas, Webster, Samuel and DRC...

Champ Bailey only allowed 1 TD, had a lower completion percentage when thrown at him and he has less YAC when thrown to
Samuel is a better playmaker and he allowed the same amount of touchdowns
Terell Thomas was the best run supporting corner in the NFL last season and he only allowed 3 touchdowns
Webster was arguably the best in the NFL the season prior to this one
and DRC had a lower completion percentage when thrown at him, he had more passes defended and he had a lower QB rating when thrown at him

[Scotty D]

I rated this thread 5 stars. Highly enjoyable.

[Hines]

Wililam ***>Sheldon Brown, Darrelle Revis, Champ Bailey, Aso

[keylime_5]

Revis got beat by Ted Ginn. TED ******* GINN!!!!!!!!!

yep. better get used to it too, it's gonna happen a lot the next decade. Teddy Ginn's gonna hit the NFL like a ******* tidal wave.

[Sniper]

yep. better get used to it too, it's gonna happen a lot the next decade. Teddy Ginn's gonna hit the NFL like a ******* tidal wave.

9 routes all day, err day.

[keylime_5]

if you control Ginn in madden and hold the speed button down immediately after the snap, the fly route is the only one you'll ever need. 10 catches, 600 yards, 10 TDs, one game.

[Sniper]

if you control Ginn in madden and hold the speed button down immediately after the snap, the fly route is the only one you'll ever need. 10 catches, 600 yards, 10 TDs, one game.

Hahahahaha money. If the NFL ever abolished over-the-top coverage, Ted would be the greatest receiver ever.

[Hines]

Hahahahaha money. If the NFL ever abolished over-the-top coverage, Ted would be the greatest receiver ever.

You mean he's not already?

[keylime_5]

they changed the rules for Tom Brady, why wouldn't they for Teddy Ginn? I think if they don't then it would be a blatant show of favoritism towards Michigan which is uncalled for. Balance.

[WinslowBodden]

Hahahahaha money. If the NFL ever abolished over-the-top coverage, Ted would be the greatest receiver ever.

That is if he could actually catch the ball.

[keylime_5]

hard to catch one of those wobbly turds that Chad Henne throws. He needs his boy Troy down in Miami with him.

[Sniper]

hard to catch one of those wobbly turds that Chad Henne throws. He needs his boy Troy down in Miami with him.

Hard to catch anything when you have hands like Ginn does. Hartline seems to catch Henne's passes just fine. Is Smith done crying like a little ***** so he can play for his hometown team?

[keylime_5]

well Hartline is a slow ass white guy. It's a lot easier to catch the ball when you're not running 70 mph.

[Morton]

What's the over/under on the number of interceptions Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu will have in divisional games vs. the Browns next year if Jake Delhomme is the starter?

4? 5? 10 per game?

[Thumper]

I'M ALL HOPPED UP ON MOUNTAIN DEW, CHIP!

Wait a sec...missed a couple on ef45's list. Brandon Flowers? Jabari Greer? Jon Joseph? En ******* serio?

Don't lie, ef45. You've confirmed it before.

That is news to me, I've never confirmed anything like that.

And those are all corners who had better seasons than Sheldon Brown did.

[keylime_5]

hard to intercept a guy when you run the ball 40+ times per game.

[Morton]

hard to intercept a guy when you run the ball 40+ times per game.

Good luck winning games in the today's NFL doing that.

[Thumper]

Jabrari Greer? like really? Jonathan Joseph?
And are you really that guy who hates a guy the DAY he's not on your team? an eagles fan saying 2 Giants CB's are better? how much does that pain you?

it doesn't Sheldon is on the Browns now and the Browns suck ass, I've got no loyalty to him anymore. BTW Webster wasn't better last season, notice the word potentially, I still think Webster is good because of his 2008 season and Thomas was actually pretty good last year, better than Mike Jenkins.

[TitanHope]

Yeah, I don't get how this isn't anything other than the Eagles getting hosed. They're a good team though and should be able to withstand the loss, but the Browns made out like bandits. A couple of mid-round picks and a project OLB for an established upper echelon CB and an OLB that fits their scheme. Brown's time may have been running out in Philly, so at least they got something for him.

Thumper's meltdown has been hilarious though. Seriously Thump? Seriously?! Ahahahahahahahaha! :D

[BaLLiN]

hard to catch one of those wobbly turds that Chad Henne throws. He needs his boy Troy down in Miami with him.

yeah so troy can just throw the ball 60 yards down the same side Ginn is on, thats all he can do since he's like 5 inches tall

[keylime_5]

Good luck winning games in the today's NFL doing that.

we only won once last season in the first 12 games before we started doing that, at which point we won four in a row! Defense and running game = Titans going 13-3 in 2008, Steelers winning super bowl in 2005. It can be done.

[Sniper]

I ****** hate you, stupid *** smd

Greatest. Rep. Comment. EVER! You're not 12 or anything.

[Thumper]

Greatest. Rep. Comment. EVER! You're not 12 or anything.

Don't you love it? :D

[superman8456]

Oh I see what you did there.

You got rocked in the trade, screw off.

So getting a good CB is going to magically make your pass rush good? It might help, but it wont fix the problem. I'll wait a little longer to pass judgement on Gocong.

I don't really give a **** that we traded him. Yeah, it would have been nice to keep him around, but its a business. If we can get a guy to come in and produce for a little cheaper, I'm all for it. I wasn't a fan of the way he handled his contract situation, but he still showed up on gameday. I don't have high expectations for him next year, and you, honestly, shouldn't either.

[keylime_5]

what's wrong with the Browns' pass rush? we don't have a DeMarcus Ware or a Jared Allen or a Dwight Freeney but we had 40 sacks last year b/c Rob Ryan and Eric Mangini can coach them some defense.

[Thumper]

what's wrong with the Browns' pass rush? we don't have a DeMarcus Ware or a Jared Allen or a Dwight Freeney but we had 40 sacks last year b/c Rob Ryan and Eric Mangini can coach them some defense.

Right... and you happen to have traded your best pass rusher about a month ago. But you can still expect 40 sacks!

[keylime_5]

Wimbley didn't have any sacks down the stretch. Matt Roth was our best pass rusher from the moment we signed him. No one guy made or broke our pass rush last year. David Bowens, Jason Trusnik, Marcus Benard, Kamerion Wimbley, Corey Williams, Robaire Smith, and Matt Roth (who was the most prevelant) were the key to our successful pass rush last year. Keep talking about stuff you have no clue about though, it's entertaining.

[Thumper]

Wimbley didn't have any sacks down the stretch. Matt Roth was our best pass rusher from the moment we signed him. No one guy made or broke our pass rush last year. David Bowens, Jason Trusnik, Marcus Benard, Kamerion Wimbley, Corey Williams, Robaire Smith, and Matt Roth (who was the most prevelant) were the key to our successful pass rush last year. Keep talking about stuff you have no clue about though, it's entertaining.

The guy with 16 sacks in 6 seasons is your best pass rusher? Like I said, good luck getting to 40 again.

[keylime_5]

you didn't watch the browns last year. from the moment we signed Roth he was camping out in the opposing teams' backfield. Dude was unstoppable for us last year. Pleasant surprise. With Roth playing a full year instead of just a handful of games for us and adding Gocong and Fujita and maybe Veikune getting playing time this year I think we could have more sacks this year.

[superman8456]

Wimbley didn't have any sacks down the stretch. Matt Roth was our best pass rusher from the moment we signed him. No one guy made or broke our pass rush last year. David Bowens, Jason Trusnik, Marcus Benard, Kamerion Wimbley, Corey Williams, Robaire Smith, and Matt Roth (who was the most prevelant) were the key to our successful pass rush last year. Keep talking about stuff you have no clue about though, it's entertaining.

How many of these guys from this "successful" pass rush is left? Kamerion Wimbley and Corey Williams are gone. A lot of the defensive lineman have 10+ years of tread on their tires. David Bowens, one of the sack leaders for the Browns, is going into his 12th year.

There are some young, budding pass rushers for the Browns, but dont get your hopes up. The Browns went against some putrid offensive lines last year, as well. Green Bay (mid season), Kansas City, Jacksonville, Oakland, Chicago, Detroit, etc.

[Flyboy]

Jabari Greer was one of the best corners in the league last year. I will have to agree with Thumper in that regard.

[superman8456]

Another thing I'm confused about is that everybody says we got "raped" in the trade. The only thing I will say about the fairness of the trade is that, yes, it does seem a little more appealing for the Browns.

Why would the FO intentionally screw themselves over? I dont believe we were in that much of a hurry to get rid of Brown, but Andy probably felt that the Browns offer was adequate enough to obtain a top player. We weren't going to give him his next payday, so we may as well have gotten some value for him while we could. I honestly believe we couldn't have gotten much more than what we got for him. Sheldon is a great player, but unless you're a contender now and need a top dollar CB, there wont be much interest.

Hindsight is 20/20. Right now it may look a little bit ridiculous, but I have a feeling that it was figure itself out.

[scottyboy]

wait, how did this turn into a let's talk about how ****** the browns pass rush is thread?
changing the topic of the eagles getting hosed in the deal. you know, the deal which this thread is actually about...

[keylime_5]

How many of these guys from this "successful" pass rush is left? Kamerion Wimbley and Corey Williams are gone. A lot of the defensive lineman have 10+ years of tread on their tires. David Bowens, one of the sack leaders for the Browns, is going into his 12th year.

There are some young, budding pass rushers for the Browns, but dont get your hopes up. The Browns went against some putrid offensive lines last year, as well. Green Bay (mid season), Kansas City, Jacksonville, Oakland, Chicago, Detroit, etc.

you miss the point clearly. We had 40 sacks and were top ten in the league in that regard with a bunch of guys no one's ever heard of. Jason Trusnik, Marcus Benard, David Bowens.....not really household names. Heck, most of those guys weren't even on our roster to start the season. Benard, Trusnik, and Roth literally weren't on the team until past the halfway point in the year. Most of our success on defense was our excellent coaching and the guys buying into the system.

[Thumper]

you miss the point clearly. We had 40 sacks and were top ten in the league in that regard with a bunch of guys no one's ever heard of. Jason Trusnik, Marcus Benard, David Bowens.....not really household names. Heck, most of those guys weren't even on our roster to start the season. Benard, Trusnik, and Roth literally weren't on the team until past the halfway point in the year. Most of our success on defense was our excellent coaching and the guys buying into the system.

http://ericmangenius.com/_images/eric-mangenius-tshirt.jpg

[Tebow_Nation]

shaun rogers put a gun to the eagles gm to make this trade go through

[Thumper]

shaun rogers put a gun to the eagles gm to make this trade go through

it all makes sense now! Now we know why Rogers had the gun and now we know why the Eagles let this deal happen. Damn you Shaun Rogers!

[SenorGato]

The Browns are hoping for Berry or Bryant....or Clausen, maybe.

Holmgini seems to be doing their thing.

[Chucky]

What's the over/under on the number of interceptions Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu will have in divisional games vs. the Browns next year if Jake Delhomme is the starter?

4? 5? 10 per game?

I love how Eagles fans somehow feel they are rationalizing an awful trade by their team by ripping on the winners of the trade for having a bad team.

******* pathetic and obnoxioius.

What the **** does this post have to do with the trade, please stop trolling.

[TACKLE]

This thread.....


WOW! That's all I can say. I think this thread has gone on long enough.

[Go_Eagles77]

Glad I managed to stay out of the whole thing.

[Sniper]

I love how Eagles fans somehow feel they are rationalizing an awful trade by their team by ripping on the winners of the trade for having a bad team.

******* pathetic and obnoxioius.

What the **** does this post have to do with the trade, please stop trolling.

Please don't lump me in.

[WinslowBodden]

What's the over/under on the number of interceptions Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu will have in divisional games vs. the Browns next year if Jake Delhomme is the starter?

4? 5? 10 per game?

Dude just shut the **** up. You're seriously the biggest troll when it comes to the Browns.. Are you Phil Savage or something and are bitter so you come on here and post religiously dissing the Browns.

We get it, you think the Browns are bad, and they are. You don't have to remind us in every thread no matter what move we make. I guarantee you do a draft grade just so you can give the Browns an F and no matter how good we do whoever we pick is going to be a bust and you're gonna be 100% sure of it.

Can't wait to see if Holmgren actually turns this around so all the annoying **** heads like you finally shut up.

[keylime_5]

needs to drop the "t" from his username.

[WinslowBodden]

needs to drop the "t" from his username.

Omg that works perfect for both Thumper and Morton.

[Thumper]

Haha and I'm the childish one... Seriously WinslowBodden s tfu, you're team sucks fat ***** and we're allowed to talk about whatever we want to on here. The Browns suck and just because you don't want to be reminded doesn't mean we have to stop. Stop whining, no one gives a ****.

And Holmgren isn't going to turn things around, he is a terrible talent evaluator just look what he did to Seattle, they're almost as bad as the Browns now.

[LonghornsLegend]

Omg that works perfect for both Thumper and Morton.

lol I found this pretty funny for some reason :D

[princefielder28]

Haha and I'm the childish one... Seriously WinslowBodden s tfu, you're team sucks fat ***** and we're allowed to talk about whatever we want to on here. The Browns suck and just because you don't want to be reminded doesn't mean we have to stop. Stop whining, no one gives a ****.

And Holmgren isn't going to turn things around, he is a terrible talent evaluator just look what he did to Seattle, they're almost as bad as the Browns now.

He was 72-56 with Seattle and got them to the Super Bowl. I think Browns fans would glaldy take that.

[Rosebud]

If you want to talk about the Browns sucking start a thread where it would make sense. This thread is about this trade which was clearly a very good one for Cleveland, which is not to say it makes no sense for Philly, it just makes more sense for Cleveland.

[BaLLiN]

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keep the peace

[Thumper]

He was 72-56 with Seattle and got them to the Super Bowl. I think Browns fans would glaldy take that.

Yeah with a guy that he took from Green Bay, a RB he hit on, an OG he hit on and a left tackle that the last coach had. Look what he did when they all faded away, he replaced them with bad players and his lack of talent evaluating skills was clear. Look at all Holmgren's drafts and his free agent pickups, he is a terrible talent evaluator and he is the reason Seattle is in the position they're in now. Good coach, terrible scout.

[Sniper]

you're team sucks fat *****

Yur gramir iz feniminel.

[keylime_5]

guy went to super bowls with two different teams, one of which he was in charge of personnel for. terrible at putting talent together, honestly.

[Rosebud]

Yeah with a guy that he took from Green Bay, a RB he hit on, an OG he hit on and a left tackle that the last coach had. Look what he did when they all faded away, he replaced them with bad players and his lack of talent evaluating skills was clear. Look at all Holmgren's drafts and his free agent pickups, he is a terrible talent evaluator and he is the reason Seattle is in the position they're in now. Good coach, terrible scout.

So your point is Holmgren is going to take the Browns to the superbowl since he's got a stud LT from the previous regime, a successful interior OL and a guy he brought with him from his previous franchise?

[Sniper]

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/7/18/633519385864626383-denial---aint-just-a-river-in-egypt.jpg

[BaLLiN]

Sniper in regards to this thread:

http://broseph.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/political-pictures-stephen-colbert-epic-win2.jpg

[WinslowBodden]

Haha and I'm the childish one... Seriously WinslowBodden s tfu, you're team sucks fat ***** and we're allowed to talk about whatever we want to on here. The Browns suck and just because you don't want to be reminded doesn't mean we have to stop. Stop whining, no one gives a ****.

And Holmgren isn't going to turn things around, he is a terrible talent evaluator just look what he did to Seattle, they're almost as bad as the Browns now.

So I can talk about how you're clearly a troll in the 14-16 year old range and how apparently no one likes you? Works for me.

And BTW I havent "whined" once. There is nothing to "whine" about. My team just traded for a great player in a deal that I'm happy with. I dont care if my team sucked in the past 10 or so years I can't do anything about that I'm a fan not in the front office. I can tell that we have a good person running the team now and the future looks better than it ever has with this team.

You aren't bright enough to figure that out, so just go back to ripping on the Browns, flip flopping, acting like a little kid and keep trying to be clever with your insults because its funny reading how immature and clueless you are.

[Thumper]

So your point is Holmgren is going to take the Browns to the superbowl since he's got a stud LT from the previous regime, a successful interior OL and a guy he brought with him from his previous franchise?

Yep because Seneca Wallace is as good as Matt Hasselbeck was.... And Joe Thomas isn't as good as Walter Jones was, Steinbech isn't even on the same level as Hutchinson and Harrison can't even sniff how good Alexander was.

My point was that Holmgren is a terrible GM and talent evaluator, look at all his post 2001 Seattle drafts, he really only hit on Lofa Tatupu, Leroy Hill, Brandon Mebane, John Carlson and maybe Marcus Trufant depending on how good you think he is. Holmgren is the reason Seattle is in the spot they're in today, his talent evaluating skills are mediocre at best, aside from maybe hitting on 6 or 7 players in 10 drafts, his drafts sucked ass.

See for yourself: http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=SEA&lg=NFL

[WinslowBodden]

Yep because Seneca Wallace is as good as Matt Hasselbeck was.... And Joe Thomas isn't as good as Walter Jones was, Steinbech isn't even on the same level as Hutchinson and Harrison can't even sniff how good Alexander was.

My point was that Holmgren is a terrible GM and talent evaluator, look at all his post 2001 Seattle drafts, he really only hit on Lofa Tatupu, Leroy Hill, Brandon Mebane, John Carlson and maybe Marcus Trufant depending on how good you think he is. Holmgren is the reason Seattle is in the spot they're in today, his talent evaluating skills are mediocre at best, aside from maybe hitting on 6 or 7 players in 10 drafts, his drafts sucked ass.

See for yourself: http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=SEA&lg=NFL

You do realize he is not our GM? You do realize that he's working with Tom Heckert and Mangini? Probably not you just spew out random bull **** and hope it sticks and that no one calls you out on it.

[Todd Bertuzzi]

Yeah with a guy that he took from Green Bay, a RB he hit on, an OG he hit on and a left tackle that the last coach had. Look what he did when they all faded away, he replaced them with bad players and his lack of talent evaluating skills was clear. Look at all Holmgren's drafts and his free agent pickups, he is a terrible talent evaluator and he is the reason Seattle is in the position they're in now. Good coach, terrible scout.

Well all the areas you say Holmgren is bad at are where Heckert excels. Eagles got hosed in this deal, get over it.

[BaLLiN]

Yep because Seneca Wallace is as good as Matt Hasselbeck was

thats soo wrong, how could you even say that

[Thumper]

And BTW I havent "whined" once. There is nothing to "whine" about. My team just traded for a great player in a deal that I'm happy with. I dont care if my team sucked in the past 10 or so years I can't do anything about that I'm a fan not in the front office. I can tell that we have a good person running the team now and the future looks better than it ever has with this team.

Really you haven't whined? I've seen you whine about Morton bashing your team plenty of times. If you don't care why does it bother you so much that we bash your team? Clearly it does if you're going out of your way to argue with us about it and singling it out in every thread. You have a terrible talent evaluator running your team, things don't look brighter for the Browns.

[Thumper]

thats soo wrong, how could you even say that

sarcasm... clearly you didn't grasp that.

[Thumper]

You do realize he is not our GM? You do realize that he's working with Tom Heckert and Mangini? Probably not you just spew out random bull **** and hope it sticks and that no one calls you out on it.

Yes I do realize that, but he has the final say in decisions, he is the team president.

[Sniper]

Yep because Seneca Wallace is as good as Matt Hasselbeck was.... And Joe Thomas isn't as good as Walter Jones was, Steinbech isn't even on the same level as Hutchinson and Harrison can't even sniff how good Alexander was.

I always felt that Alexander was horribly overrated. A turtle could have run for 1,000 yards behind Jones and Hutchinson.

[Thumper]

Well all the areas you say Holmgren is bad at are where Heckert excels. Eagles got hosed in this deal, get over it.

How do we know Heckert excels in that area? He was stuck in Andy Reid's massive shadow, we don't know what Heckert did but we do know that Andy Reid is the guy who calls all the shots.

[BaLLiN]

sarcasm... clearly you didn't grasp that.

well i thought that but...

Yep because Seneca Wallace is as good as Matt Hasselbeck was.... And Joe Thomas isn't as good as Walter Jones was, Steinbech isn't even on the same level as Hutchinson and Harrison can't even sniff how good Alexander was.

if you were being sarcastic with the first comparison, id expect it to be sarcastic throughout, because the rest is all true.

[WinslowBodden]

Really you haven't whined? I've seen you whine about Morton bashing your team plenty of times. If you don't care why does it bother you so much that we bash your team? Clearly it does if you're going out of your way to argue with us about it and singling it out in every thread. You have a terrible talent evaluator running your team, things don't look brighter for the Browns.

Lol if you think it bugs me that you rip on the Browns you're as stupid as I thought you were. I've had plenty of friends and Steelers fans give me **** for how bad we are over the past 10 years, you think it's going to bug me when someone tells me on the internet? I was only pointing out that every thread he posts in there is a negative comment about the Browns attatched with it that is mostly far-stretched and ridiculous (Yeah, I see polamalu and Reed getting 10 ints a game against Delhomme)

Also, its not whining when you tell someone their being an annoying prick, its just being honest. The most ironic thing about it is that you started this whole thing out by whining about how bad the deal was then flip flopping instantly and saying it was a good trade.

[Thumper]

The ... is supposed to imply that I was being sarcastic on that one.

[BaLLiN]

The ... is supposed to imply that I was being sarcastic on that one.

gotcha, normally i find these things more obvious, my bad

[Thumper]

Lol if you think it bugs me that you rip on the Browns you're as stupid as I thought you were. I've had plenty of friends and Steelers fans give me **** for how bad we are over the past 10 years, you think it's going to bug me when someone tells me on the internet? I was only pointing out that every thread he posts in there is a negative comment about the Browns attatched with it that is mostly far-stretched and ridiculous (Yeah, I see polamalu and Reed getting 10 ints a game against Delhomme)

Also, its not whining when you tell someone their being an annoying prick, its just being honest. The most ironic thing about it is that you started this whole thing out by whining about how bad the deal was then flip flopping instantly and saying it was a good trade.

You can talk about how it doesn't bother you all you want but it clearly does since you single it out every time someone bashes the Browns.

And I never said it was a good trade, I'm saying it was a pretty pointless trade for everyone involved, Sheldon has no long term value to the Browns and they need a long term starter and Sheldon doesn't provide that and he will likely be gone by the time the Browns right the ship. Gocong was an alright pickup I guess in the trade, not even close to a loss for the Eagles. And then the Browns gave up draft picks that could've been used on younger players in a deep draft. Meanwhile the Eagles who are supposed to contend just traded a starting corner who is in some aspects better than Asante and they get draft picks and a young LB who has proven nothing. Its a pretty pointless deal all around if you ask me.

[BaLLiN]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1986/mikepatterson.jpg

mmm oh yeah, andy reid knows his players well

[keylime_5]

guy was the GM/Head Coach who built the Seahawks and got them to the super bowl. He took two teams that weren't very good and took them to the super bowl. Clearly doesn't know what he's doing. Total hack.

[BaLLiN]

guy was the GM/Head Coach who built the Seahawks and got them to the super bowl. He took two teams that weren't very good and took them to the super bowl. Clearly doesn't know what he's doing. Total hack.

you could also attribute some of it to the god awful play in the NFC West, the rams, cardinals, and 49ers all had very inconsistent quarterback play and were pretty average other than a few good players.

[Shane P. Hallam]

you could also attribute some of it to the god awful play in the NFC West, the rams, cardinals, and 49ers all had very inconsistent quarterback play and were pretty average other than a few good players.

That doesn't lead to playoff success.

[Thumper]

guy was the GM/Head Coach who built the Seahawks and got them to the super bowl. He took two teams that weren't very good and took them to the super bowl. Clearly doesn't know what he's doing. Total hack.

Wow. The Packers weren't talented? Those Packers teams were stacked, they had Brett Favre (the greatest QB of all time), Keith Jackson, a 2 RB attack that had over 1800 yards from scrimmage, Desmond Howard was returning the kicks, a good offensive line and a good defense anchored by Reggie White and LeRoy Butler. He had great players in Green Bay.

In Seattle he was terrible with personnel decisions and is the reason they're currently in the terrible spot they're in. He rode Shaun Alexander, Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson and Matt Hasselbeck to a superbowl. He is a good coach and he was able to coach his team to a superbowl. Holmgren is a very good coach but I don't think he is a someone who is a good front office guy, great coach, bad GM, bad scout and makes bad personnel decisions, or at least he did that with Seattle. Just look at their free agent signings and their draft history, they hit on about 6-7 guys in the draft in nearly a decade, that is not good work.

Good coach, bad FO guy.

[Thumper]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1986/mikepatterson.jpg

mmm oh yeah, andy reid knows his players well

http://blog.nj.com/eagles/2008/05/large_Andy%20Reid%20Grabbing.jpg

Sure does.

[Brent]

You can talk about how it doesn't bother you all you want but it clearly does since you single it out every time someone bashes the Browns.
Or he's pointing how in a thread about a trade, involving Sheldon Brown, Chris Gocong, and Alex Hall, people are bashing on the Browns' recent lack of success as if it has any relation to discussing a ******* trade.

[BaLLiN]

That doesn't lead to playoff success.

well i was also including it in the argument of the record he had. But it does help you get into the playoffs, and thats more than half the battle.

[Thumper]

Or he's pointing how in a thread about a trade, involving Sheldon Brown, Chris Gocong, and Alex Hall, people are bashing on the Browns' recent lack of success as if it has any relation to discussing a ******* trade.

It has happened in many more threads than this one.

[TitanHope]

You can talk about how it doesn't bother you all you want but it clearly does since you single it out every time someone bashes the Browns.

No, he's just pointing out that acting like a jackass is annoying. He can call out a troll and without the troll getting under his skin and bothering him.

[Brent]

It has happened in many more threads than this one.
Cool story, bro. Just because it's occurred in other threads doesn't mean that it's relevant to the ******* conversation.

[Rosebud]

Cool story, bro. Just because it's occurred in other threads doesn't mean that it's relevant to the ******* conversation.

You're just speciesist against Homos Philidelphus.

[Go_Eagles77]

Cool story, bro. Just because it's occurred in other threads doesn't mean that it's relevant to the ******* conversation.
I have to agree. The browns just got the better of the eagles in a trade so rather than congratulating them on getting a good player you talk about how much their team sucks? That's just ********.

[Hines]

Thumper, Bret Favre is not the greatest QB of all time.

[Thumper]

Thumper, Bret Favre is not the greatest QB of all time.

statistically he is the GOAT, I guess there could be a debate about it but I'll just say fine, he isn't the GOAT but he is top 5.