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adamprez2003
04-04-2010, 06:04 PM
Got a question for those of you who may have watched Sergio Kindle more than me. Can this guy be a force as a 3-4 OLB? It seems to me that Brandon Graham and Jerry Hughes have a lot of passionate fans but Kindle seems to be on the outside somewhat. I just finished watching the Texas vs Nebraska and Alabama games and I came away thoroughly impressed.
He has
1) excellent burst
2) very good straight line speed
3) good at 45 degree turns (seems a bit tight in 90 degree turns)
4) has a great understanding of angles
5) excellent football intelligence and ability to diagnose plays
6) plays smartly and doesnt overcommit
7) good stacker average shedder
8) excellent energy and hustle (will play as hard in the 4th qtr as the 1st
9) when he bends his knees is able to control tackles (does play upright at times which causes him to lose leverage)
10) very goode at contain. I dont see teams trying to run around his side. it seems his responsibilities dictate that he stays to the outside of the tackle and funnel everything into the defensive tackles


The one thing I cant see is how he plays in space. Can anyone offer some insight from his 2008 season when he was a linebacker. Will he be a liability in pass coverage? Any other opinions are welcome and appreciated
10)

JFLO
04-04-2010, 06:10 PM
I know that had he declared last year, he would have been a first round pick. I don't think that he hurt his stock this year, but I don't think he necessarily boosted it tremendously as well. His performance in the National Championship game was amazing though and that should have helped him out in a good proportion.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Kindle. I think he'll end up going Top 15 when it's all said and done. He's productive, consistent and extremely athletic for a player his size.

In terms of pass coverage, I think he may need a bit more development, but I don't think it's something that will hold him back for three years or cause some people to label him a bust.

cajuncorey
04-04-2010, 06:12 PM
IMO hes the best 3-4 OLB in the draft and i believe he will end up going to miami or the giants... hes like a rich mans clint sintim.

Texas Homer
04-05-2010, 12:34 AM
I like him as a 3-4 OLB. I think he could be a MONSTER 3-4 OLB rushing the passer if put in the right defense.

I love his burst and motor. He is really strong too.

I think that Kindle is a legit Mid-1st Round pick that can help a team right away.

SenorGato
04-05-2010, 01:41 AM
IMO hes the best 3-4 OLB in the draft and i believe he will end up going to miami or the giants... hes like a rich mans clint sintim.

Nice. Yea, he's a really good prospect...the Broncos could take him as early as 11 depending on who's on the board.

Flyboy
04-05-2010, 02:05 AM
How does he compare to Brian Orakpo?

GoRavens
04-05-2010, 05:22 AM
I'd love it if he fell to 25 so Baltimore could snatch him up.
He's awesome.

LonghornsLegend
04-05-2010, 06:52 AM
How does he compare to Brian Orakpo?

Definately doesn't have the power moves Orakpo had, not as polished of a pure pass-rusher, motor not as high, relies on his athleticism more then technique which Orakpo had.


Then again, Orakpo was a pure DE who was relentless in getting after the QB, Kindle is more of a LB/DE tweener who is extremely athletic in beating defenders to get to the QB, but a 3-4 is perfect for him. He still needs a few more pass-rushing moves IMO, but he has alot of potential that he hasn't even begun to tap into yet.


They have some similarities, but they were really different types who played different positions majority of the time, Kindle just moved into Rak's DE spot this past season. Rak was hell bent on getting to the QB when the ball was snapped though, you didn't always see that same relentless drive with Kindle but he's alot more nimble and athletic while giving up some power, but he needs some good coaching up and he could become better in a 3-4.

Don Vito
04-05-2010, 10:31 AM
I'd love it if he fell to 25 so Baltimore could snatch him up.
He's awesome.

If the Pats pass on him I will be pissed unless it is for someone like McClain falling.

K Train
04-05-2010, 10:35 AM
kindle is silky smooth and fast, orakpo is viscous and relentless at getting to the QB doing anything he can.

i think kindle and thaddeus gibson are pretty similar, kindle is just a more refined player

The Great Jonathan Vilma
04-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Not going to deny, my dream pick is Kindle for the Jets. He's like Jonathan Vilma, a guy i just loved in college. I'm hoping it is a similar outcome and he makes his way to the Jets. It would require a trade up though, and i'm not sure that given the other team needs and draft board, if it would be the right move.

yourfavestoner
04-05-2010, 10:51 AM
I would love him in Jacksonville at either DE or 4-3 OLB.

proshoota25
04-07-2010, 09:25 AM
he is the pick i am hoping the pats make.

Babylon
04-07-2010, 11:13 AM
The longer the process goes on the better Kindle is looking.

J-Mike88
04-07-2010, 01:17 PM
I know Mike Mayock of the NFL Network is not as credentialed as our own LonghornsLegend is, and Mayock doesn't have as many personal contacts within the NFL and NCAA as LL does, but Mayock says this about Orakpo & Kindle: NFL Network's Mike Mayock said Kindle is farther ahead at this stage than Brian Orakpo, who was the No. 13 selection in 2009 by the Redskins and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie.
Mayock has Kindle rated as the No. 7 player in the entire draft. He insists that the "explosive defensive playmaker" is the easy choice for the Dolphins at No. 12, especially over ILB Rolando McClain (rated No. 17 overall by Mayock). Mayock

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=5777&line=167997&spln=1

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2010/02/23/mike-mayock-texas-outside-linebacker-sergio-kindle-best-case-scenario-for-dolphins/

Malaka
04-07-2010, 02:24 PM
IMO hes the best 3-4 OLB in the draft and i believe he will end up going to miami or the giants... hes like a rich mans clint sintim.

Maybe when we still had Spags Kindle would be perfect for a Joker position, but even with Spags we'd already have Sintim thus just needing a MIKE instead of both SAM and MIKE. Spoon or McClain are the LBs most likely to be Giants.

Giantsfan1080
04-07-2010, 02:29 PM
I can't see the Giants taking Kindle when we already have Sintim. I do like Kindle a lot though and think he's going to be a big time player.

LonghornsLegend
04-07-2010, 03:18 PM
I know Mike Mayock of the NFL Network is not as credentialed as our own LonghornsLegend is, and Mayock doesn't have as many personal contacts within the NFL and NCAA as LL does

lol wut????

Malaka
04-07-2010, 03:21 PM
I know Mike Mayock of the NFL Network is not as credentialed as our own LonghornsLegend is, and Mayock doesn't have as many personal contacts within the NFL and NCAA as LL does, but Mayock says this about Orakpo & Kindle:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=5777&line=167997&spln=1

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2010/02/23/mike-mayock-texas-outside-linebacker-sergio-kindle-best-case-scenario-for-dolphins/

Mike Mayock also loved Robert Ayers... yes he does have experience and blah blah but it does not mean what he says is right.

PACKmanN
04-07-2010, 03:24 PM
I would love him in Jacksonville at either DE or 4-3 OLB.

With the signing of Kampmann, that puts an end of the Jags playing in a 3-4 defense.

Addict
04-07-2010, 03:24 PM
Mike Mayock also loved Robert Ayers... yes he does have experience and blah blah but it does not mean what he says is right.

exactly. Mayock's big thing is that he's right a lot of the time. But that really means that he's also wrong on some counts. Can't be right all the time.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-07-2010, 03:33 PM
I'm a big fan of Kindle. Very explosive and silky smooth. Just needs to be coached up a bit.

Aloysius
04-07-2010, 03:58 PM
Back when Mayock's comments came out, I listened to the audio of the conference call (which can be found here (http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/audio/Mike-Mayock-Conference-Call/f11fdacf-deb5-4372-b37c-fc2d12413b28)).

Mayock's "Kindle's farther ahead of Orakpo" comment clearly was in reference to his ability to play linebacker. That's something even most people who like Orakpo better would concede, given that Kindle has plenty of experience playing with his hand up.

umphrey
04-07-2010, 04:52 PM
I've been saying we shouldn't and won't draft a OLB in the first but if available Kindle should be our pick. Best overall 3-4 OLB in the draft easily. Brandon Graham is overrated and gets way too much love especially as a linebacker. I think mostly just the fans have been on his bandwagon and he might drop to the second.

yourfavestoner
04-07-2010, 06:30 PM
With the signing of Kampmann, that puts an end of the Jags playing in a 3-4 defense.

I'm aware of that. That's why I said I want him as either a DE or 4-3 OLB. Not a 3-4 OLB.

UTPATS
04-07-2010, 10:03 PM
Kindle is not a NFL DE. He will be more productive as an
OLB, but his athleticism exceeds that of Orakpo's.

FrankGore
04-07-2010, 11:51 PM
I like Kindle as a well-rounded 3-4 OLB. I don't think he'll really end up being a big-time pass rusher, though he flashes that ability at times. He sorta reminds me of Manny Lawson coming out, in terms of being a lankier guy and not a very polished pass-rusher, though he does have better burst and potential to become that eventually. He has the ability to turn and run and make a lot of plays against the run as a linebacker.

Definitely an unfinished product that could end up better as a pro. I could see the Dolphins, 49ers, and Pats being significantly interested, and who knows if a 4-3 team such as the Titans likes him as a SLB. I don't think he'd get past the Pats. And as of now, I'd call him a favorite for the Fins.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
04-08-2010, 02:04 AM
Dear JMike88,

I don't want to sound like a jerk, so dont take me that way please. But LonghornLegend was spot on. Mayock can say what he wants to. Rak knew one thing-get after the quarterback. Thats not a bad thing. I like both of them.

I side with LonghornLegend on this one, obviously. Not sure that Kindle is a better prospect, because pass rushing is as important as anything in the NFL. But as an all around OLB, I take Kindle.

SenorGato
04-08-2010, 08:36 AM
I've been saying we shouldn't and won't draft a OLB in the first but if available Kindle should be our pick. Best overall 3-4 OLB in the draft easily. Brandon Graham is overrated and gets way too much love especially as a linebacker. I think mostly just the fans have been on his bandwagon and he might drop to the second.

I feel that way about Graham...but in the sense that he's not a top player because of his size.

Yes, the first round is about finding players, but a 6'2 guy with short arms is going to fall on draft day because teams are looking for prototypes early while they can get them.

J-Mike88
04-08-2010, 09:58 AM
I don't want to sound like a jerk, so dont take me that way please. But LonghornLegend was spot on. Mayock can say what he wants to. Rak knew one thing-get after the quarterback. Thats not a bad thing. I like both of them.
I side with LonghornLegend on this one, obviously. Not sure that Kindle is a better prospect, because pass rushing is as important as anything in the NFL. But as an all around OLB, I take Kindle.
I understand, and that was a joke, but sometimes you can't tell reading text instead of hearing it, my bad with that. LL took it as an insult too because he took the time to bang me some rep points.
But I meant it like a laugh, and the thing is, everybody has different opinions.
That's why there are called opinions.

Scouts are wrong a lot of times, and 10 different scouts can have many different opinions on a particular player. Just cuz a guy gets paid to scout, doesn't mean I, or Longhorn, or you won't be right about a player.

I just don't like it when someone goes out on a limb against the grain, and they get ripped for it by someone and then others pile on. Let those people have their unique opinions. Only time will prove them right or wrong.

I do rank Mayock higher than Kiper and McShay for sure, so I have to take what Mike said about Kindle pretty seriously. It's not like Kindle played in a tiny conference or only had 1 year of film.

FlyingElvis
04-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Sergio Kindle is just dreamy.


(by which I mean I have nothing substantial to add on this topic)


lol wut????

Did you kick his dog or something?

J-Mike88
04-08-2010, 10:01 AM
I feel that way about Graham...but in the sense that he's not a top player because of his size.

Yes, the first round is about finding players, but a 6'2 guy with short arms is going to fall on draft day because teams are looking for prototypes early while they can get them.
I agree with you totally there on Graham.
I think he's the 2nd most sure stud in this whole draft, and this height or arm size is a joke. I can't believe Elvis Dumervil and James Harrison haven't taught some scouts a lesson there. I expect Graham goes higher than some TV-scouts say he will. I hope he goes #23, but suspect he's gone before them because lessons have to have been learned with Doom and JH.

K Train
04-08-2010, 10:09 AM
I agree with you totally there on Graham.
I think he's the 2nd most sure stud in this whole draft, and this height or arm size is a joke. I can't believe Elvis Dumervil and James Harrison haven't taught some scouts a lesson there. I expect Graham goes higher than some TV-scouts say he will. I hope he goes #23, but suspect he's gone before them because lessons have to have been learned with Doom and JH.

hes the same size as woodley and a raw power LB with limited speed. if teams could go back woodley would have gone ahead of anthony spencer that year. im almost certain graham is a first round pick, hes not the athlete a guy like JPP is but hes 10x the football player

Gchu83
04-08-2010, 02:00 PM
Seen every game Kindle played at UT, here are my thoughts on him:

1. Monster prospect as a 3-4 pass rushing OLB. Even though he came along as a DE in the 2nd half of the season, I don't see him as a DE in the NFL.

2. One of the best athletes in the draft. He's got an incredible burst along with great closing speed which allows him to rush the passer and make plays in the backfield.

3. I do think he is still a little raw when it comes to football IQ and instincts. While Kindle makes a ton of plays, he still tends to over pursue sometimes. Also, don't know if he has the repotoire of moves to be a DE in the NFL (but he's only had one season under his belt). But he has the physical ability to make game changing plays on the defensive side of the ball.

Overall:
Kindle has the ability to be an elite pass rushing OLB in the NFL. He has great speed coming off the edge which gives OT a ton of trouble and is too big/strong for a RB to block alone. Kindle's best season (JR) came when Muschamp was rushing him from different positions on the field. He has the ability to be one of those defenders that offenses HAVE to account for and know where he is before every play.

KLAUS
04-08-2010, 02:11 PM
i like kindle. when people talk about character concerns, they have to make a distinction - if a prole likes to have a few drinks there is nothing wrong with that - thats part of the oprahfication of society - character concerns, when i was working, was always simply about laziness - the prole wants to work or doesnt want to work. i think kindle wants to work.

kindle reminds me of chris slade from 93- parcells picked up slade and at the time we thought it was a genius move. slade had everything, i dont know how he went in the second - tremendous explosion, great frame, threw a vicious punch to the chest area, great handfighter like ray mcdonald out of florida in 2007 - but slade didnt turn into much. not that he was a bad prole - just you would think in parcells system with that kind of pure talent, that slade would reach the sky zone - i see something missing in kindle like slade, of course i could be wrong - nevertheless i would still rate kindle ahead of slade, kindle plays with more clockwork orange style violence

TitanHope
04-08-2010, 06:31 PM
I understand, and that was a joke, but sometimes you can't tell reading text instead of hearing it, my bad with that. LL took it as an insult too because he took the time to bang me some rep points.
But I meant it like a laugh, and the thing is, everybody has different opinions.
That's why there are called opinions.

LL was fully in his right to neg you. It appeared that you openly mocked and belittled his opinion and insight, without any provocation. That's not a joke. That's not you making a funny (and if it's an attempt, then you probably shouldn't make another attempt at humor for a while. And then next time, include an emoticon like a ;) or :D to at least insinuate that the post is meant in a light felt way). It was you being a smart ass to a veteran poster on the board who is held in vastly higher regard than you are. He gave his own, personal input on Kindle, as well as Orakpo, and as a Texas fan and watching both players, his opinion is welcomed having watched both's entire careers. You? You copy/pasted a statement that you took out of context from an article. Well played on your part. :rolleyes:

J-Mike88
04-08-2010, 07:52 PM
LL was fully in his right to neg you. It appeared that you openly mocked and belittled his opinion and insight, without any provocation. That's not a joke. That's not you making a funny (and if it's an attempt, then you probably shouldn't make another attempt at humor for a while. And then next time, include an emoticon like a ;) or :D to at least insinuate that the post is meant in a light felt way). It was you being a smart ass to a veteran poster on the board who is held in vastly higher regard than you are. He gave his own, personal input on Kindle, as well as Orakpo, and as a Texas fan and watching both players, his opinion is welcomed having watched both's entire careers. You? You copy/pasted a statement that you took out of context from an article. Well played on your part. :rolleyes:
If that was directed at me, then utilize the PM feature next time because you provided nothing to any of the other members, except the fact that you're very adept at using those *** little emoticons.

I will side with Mayock and say Kindle will have a better career as a 3-4 OLB.
We'll see in time.

LonghornsLegend
04-08-2010, 08:00 PM
I will side with Mayock and say Kindle will have a better career as a 3-4 OLB.
We'll see in time.

Almost everyone in this thread has already said that though, who here disagrees with that? You say that like it's a new notion nobody has brought up before.


Unless you mean he'll have a better career then Orakpo as a 3-4 OLB, which if that's the case wasn't even brought up. I was comparing the two coming out, nobody ever asked who would be the better 3-4 OLB. But then again, why do we even have our own opinions in this section of the forum when we can just search for what an analyst said, post that, and end the conversation there.

Sniper
04-08-2010, 08:01 PM
Brandon Graham is overrated and gets way too much love

Yeah, I hate guys who can play the run or pass equally well. I hate guys who get over 20 tackles for loss in two straight seasons. I really hate guys who can beat OTs with speed, quickness, strength and power. Those guys are SO overrated.

J-Mike88
04-08-2010, 08:04 PM
Almost everyone in this thread has already said that though, who here disagrees with that? You say that like it's a new notion nobody has brought up before.

Unless you mean he'll have a better career then Orakpo as a 3-4 OLB, which if that's the case wasn't even brought up. I was comparing the two coming out, nobody ever asked who would be the better 3-4 OLB. But then again, why do we even have our own opinions in this section of the forum when we can just search for what an analyst said, post that, and end the conversation there.
It will be interesting watching Orakpo this year in Washington now with their changes on defense.
I still think Kindle goes between about 12 & 18. I'd like to have him at 23 joining his old teammate Jermichael Finley up in the village, but I don't see that happening. I think Orakpo's success might help Serg's stock actually, as Tedford's QB's failures hurt Rodgers draft stock.

Saints-Tigers
04-08-2010, 08:21 PM
Brandon Graham is underrated if anything. The fact that Morgan will probably go ahead of him, and JPP could is laughable to me.

TitanHope
04-08-2010, 08:45 PM
If that was directed at me, then utilize the PM feature next time because you provided nothing to any of the other members, except the fact that you're very adept at using those *** little emoticons.

I will side with Mayock and say Kindle will have a better career as a 3-4 OLB.
We'll see in time.

Who do you think it was directed to? Did me quoting you not give it away? And why would I bother PM'ing you? If you don't like being called out in a public venue, then don't post anything that would garner that kind of reply. It really doesn't matter to me if others have or have not taken anything from my posts because I'm talking to you and not the community. If they have any objections to my post, then they can feel free to say something, report me, or neg me. I doubt it though since multiple other posters looked at your post and took LL's side as well, and seeing as I have thousands of other posts that align to those guidelines (I'm not a Team Leader just because I've quoted Mayock hundreds of times, y'know), I think I can take this thread podium once in a while. Besides, I'm still discussing Sergio Kindle, so I'm not completely off topic.

As for the bolded part, no one is disagreeing with Mayock (or you transitively). Although, I do like how you speak condescendingly of TV NFL Draft analysts in some of your other posts, but in this case, you confer much more authority on one when he supports your argument (which everyone agrees on anyway). But seriously, Mayock thinks the undersized DE who played OLB for much of his career is more polished as an OLB than Orakpo was, and will make a better fit as a 3-4 OLB? Holy ****, give the guy a medal! How'd he reach that conclusion? And here I was thinking Kindle would play SS, but OLB?! Mayock's logic and knowledge is miles away from what we mere mortals could ever hope to be! Please. You aren't taking a stance and standing defiantly as we all disagree. We all think Kindle projects better to 3-4 OLB than Orakpo did - the people before you stated that in this thread and the people after you have. And as LL said, no one ever brought up Orakpo having a better career than Kindle, or vice-versa. Hell, Mayock didn't even say Kindle would end up having the better career. You've placed your foot in your mouth and are nursing it thoroughly, but by all means, continuing going to town.

***DISCLAIMER*** This post is directed towards the user J-Mike88, just in case there's any confusion or anyone decides another lame deflection mechanism.

J-Mike88
04-08-2010, 08:53 PM
Stop wasting these guys time, and space here.
Why do you think they offer a PM function?

J-Mike88
04-08-2010, 08:56 PM
kindle is silky smooth and fast, orakpo is viscous and relentless at getting to the QB doing anything he can.
I think K-Train sums it up well. Yeah, a Philly guy nails it on the head.

'cuse-213
04-08-2010, 09:45 PM
Stop wasting these guys time, and space here.
Why do you think they offer a PM function?

Was that directed to me? I don't know why you're asking me this..

Oh well, PM actually stands for private messaging. Someone would use this function if they wanted to message somebody, without anyone else being able to see that message.

Splat
04-08-2010, 10:41 PM
Oh well, PM actually stands for private messaging. Someone would use this function if they wanted to message somebody, without anyone else being able to see that message.

That's what they want you to think but the man is always watching...

Flyboy
04-08-2010, 11:00 PM
Yeah, I hate guys who can play the run or pass equally well. I hate guys who get over 20 tackles for loss in two straight seasons. I really hate guys who can beat OTs with speed, quickness, strength and power. Those guys are SO overrated.

Those guys give me an erection. Especially Brandon Graham. Just SEXY.

Malaka
04-08-2010, 11:23 PM
Brandon Graham is underrated if anything. The fact that Morgan will probably go ahead of him, and JPP could is laughable to me.

I agree with JPP, but Morgan is a great prospect I don't see why people don't see a lot of potential in him, sure I don't think he'll challenge for league lead in sacks but I feel he can rack up 10-14 sacks consistently and play the run as good as anyone, how is that not deserving of a top 20 pick.

Don't get me wrong I love Graham in his own right but a much riskier pick, but I don't see Graham getting 16-20 sacks year in and year out either.

umphrey
04-09-2010, 02:49 AM
Yeah, I hate guys who can play the run or pass equally well. I hate guys who get over 20 tackles for loss in two straight seasons. I really hate guys who can beat OTs with speed, quickness, strength and power. Those guys are SO overrated.

Great college player, great football player, faces an uphill battle in the NFL.

-Is he a OLB or a DE? Most college "tweeners" fit nicely at 3-4 OLB. He's a tweener between 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE. Either way not a great fit.
-If he plays linebacker, he faces the biggest adjustments, change in playing style of his peers. Playing in space is one of his biggest weaknesses.
-Not high on a guy who played on a bad Wolverines team in the big 10.

I like him much better as a 4-3 DE. There he already proved himself to be a good enough athlete to be productive. Move him to linebacker though and he has to cover, play in space. Being a good pass rusher with your hand in the ground doesn't make you a good pass rusher standing up from the edge.

As for 1st round OLBs I like guys that have played in space in college. Sergio Kindle, Clay Matthews, Brian Orakpo. If you're going to move a guy with zero time spent as a linebacker, at least pick someone who you know is athletic enough to do it like Jerry Hughes.

FlyingElvis
04-09-2010, 11:12 AM
Stop wasting these guys time, and space here.
Why do you think they offer a PM function?

You posted something directed towards another member IN the thread. TitanHope (or anyone else) is right to call you out on it IN the thread. But, if it makes you feel better, I have made this same claim here, via PM and in neg rep. Congrats on being so thick headed it took all three for there to be any chance of it getting through.

adamprez2003
04-09-2010, 09:03 PM
thanks for the input guys. it pretty much validates my views on him. its just weird that he seems to be flying under the radar when guys like Graham and Hughes are getting all the fan attention. And I like both Graham and Hughes