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DiG
04-05-2010, 10:54 AM
Still making some adjustments and moving guys around. Updated spreadsheet includes tier levels and additional 4-3 ratings.

If anyone wants this excel file let me know and I can send it. In the link preview some of the ranking numbers got screwed up but you can figure out about what they say from the rankings above and below them.

*Updated as of 4/12

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlOeZHNdv8NddHFZNzdVaTVWek1UN3A5ZUdKUUMyb VE&hl=en

wicket
04-05-2010, 10:59 AM
Linval Joseph is not a 3-4 nose tackle, also I think you have joique bell to low, just the things that come to mind quickest

DiG
04-05-2010, 11:05 AM
Linval Joseph is not a 3-4 nose tackle, also I think you have joique bell to low, just the things that come to mind quickest

Why can't Linval play NT? He's definitely got the size and frame for it although it could be argued he doesnt always play to his size but he knows to to engulf double teams.

From NFL.com:
"Joseph is a big body who could line up at nose tackle in a 3-4 front or interior defender in a 4-3 scheme. He is somewhat one dimensional as a run defender. He flashes ability to anchor well when he keeps his pads down but can be very inconsistent in this area. He has strong arms and hands to control blockers but can be slow to shed to the pile. Joseph has the size to play as a nose tackle in a 3-4 or defensive tackle in an even front. Possesses very good natural strength and power to control the middle against the run."

Bells a real tough guy to gauge. Ive always been very high on him on this board and I still really like him as a prospect but I dont think hes going to be drafted as high as I originally thought. Im pulling for him thats for sure.

wicket
04-05-2010, 11:07 AM
Why can't Linval play NT? He's definitely got the size and frame for it although it could be argued he doesnt always play to his size but he knows to to engulf double teams.

Bells a real tough guy to gauge. Ive always been very high on him on this board and I still really like him as a prospect but I dont think hes going to be drafted as high as I originally thought. Im pulling for him thats for sure.

Linval is more of a pentrator than a space eater, if he'd be in a 3-4 D his most natural position would be the 5tech. His size is somewhat lying about the type of player he is. His best fit would be a 4-3 anyways.

JFLO
04-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Just wondering why you have Elephant written by Carlos Dunlap's name?

wicket
04-05-2010, 11:26 AM
Just wondering why you have Elephant written by Carlos Dunlap's name?

because he would play the position that is called the 'elephant' in the defense that usc ran, meaning its the primary pass rushing linebacker that plays with his hands down in 4-3 downs. If im not mistaking cushing played that position for them before he went pro

DiG
04-05-2010, 11:27 AM
Just wondering why you have Elephant written by Carlos Dunlap's name?

cause i dont think he fits all 3-4 defenses.

JFLO
04-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Oh, I see. Ohio State runs that with Nathan Williams sometimes...

killxswitch
04-05-2010, 12:43 PM
I would've ranked Newhouse higher than Capers as an OT but I tend to like TCU players. Are you rating Jason Fox that low because of his injury? I think he is underrated. I would move him to the #7 spot.

For UTs I would have Atkins higher than Alualu, and I'm surprised Arthur Jones is completely absent. His knee is worrisome, but I'd at least put him at #9 above Al Woods and Mike Neal.

DiG
04-05-2010, 01:24 PM
I would've ranked Newhouse higher than Capers as an OT but I tend to like TCU players. Are you rating Jason Fox that low because of his injury? I think he is underrated. I would move him to the #7 spot.

For UTs I would have Atkins higher than Alualu, and I'm surprised Arthur Jones is completely absent. His knee is worrisome, but I'd at least put him at #9 above Al Woods and Mike Neal.

Sorry I have Arthur Jones in my 3-4 DE rankings but I forgot to slide him into the UT rankings as well. Good call.

I've never been high on Jason Fox, with or without his injury concerns, although they are absolutely a big knock now. I think that he is a huge liability as a pass blocker and has a long way to go in developing strength to play at the NFL level. I wouldnt touch him before the 4th round.

killxswitch
04-05-2010, 01:44 PM
Sorry I have Arthur Jones in my 3-4 DE rankings but I forgot to slide him into the UT rankings as well. Good call.

I've never been high on Jason Fox, with or without his injury concerns, although they are absolutely a big knock now. I think that he is a huge liability as a pass blocker and has a long way to go in developing strength to play at the NFL level. I wouldnt touch him before the 4th round.

Just looked it up and Fox pulled a hamstring pretty badly at his pro day. He was so durable in college, he looks like he's falling apart now. If he were healthier I think he'd warrant a late 2nd round look but teams are probably going to be wary of his health.

Matthew Jones
04-05-2010, 01:58 PM
I don't know if Everson Griffen and Carlos Dunlap really belong on the 3-4 OLB list. Also I'd probably put JPP ahead of Jerry Hughes. A lot of guys you listed as 3-4 ILBs don't really fit in a 3-4 either, notably Sean Lee, Weatherspoon, and Daryl Washington. Those guys are strictly 4-3 prospects IMO. I'd put Al Woods on the 3-4 DE list and remove Brian Price, he's a 3-technique. Other than that nice job overall!

BaLLiN
04-05-2010, 02:15 PM
Dirty, could you add 4-3 rankings? will +rep and use, its nice

DiG
04-05-2010, 02:52 PM
I don't know if Everson Griffen and Carlos Dunlap really belong on the 3-4 OLB list. Also I'd probably put JPP ahead of Jerry Hughes. A lot of guys you listed as 3-4 ILBs don't really fit in a 3-4 either, notably Sean Lee, Weatherspoon, and Daryl Washington. Those guys are strictly 4-3 prospects IMO. I'd put Al Woods on the 3-4 DE list and remove Brian Price, he's a 3-technique. Other than that nice job overall!

i disagree with you on a few points. i thikn griffen absolutely has the ability to play OLB in a 3-4 and I dont understand why you would think differently. he may not have the experience standing up but he seems from all aspects to have enough athleticism and the right size to translate. with dunlap, ive already said i only think he fits in a 3-4 in certain schemes as an elephant role.

similar for guys like lee, weatherspoon, and washington. its scheme driven. they definitely dont fit any 3-4 defense like other guys but in certain 3-4 schemes theres no reason they couldnt play inside.

im honestly not sold on price either in the 3-4 and ill do some more research on al woods.

prock
04-05-2010, 04:03 PM
Eric Decker isn't number 1, therefore it sucks.

DiG
04-05-2010, 04:09 PM
Dirty, could you add 4-3 rankings? will +rep and use, its nice

ill do 4-3 DE and 4-3 OLB rankings for you in the next couple days. no problem.

BaLLiN
04-05-2010, 04:12 PM
ill do 4-3 DE and 4-3 OLB rankings for you in the next couple days. no problem.

yeah, thats good

DiG
04-12-2010, 09:16 AM
updated. changed a few of the rankings around and added 4-3 de and 4-3 olb.

comments and discussion appreciated and welcomed!

Matthew Jones
04-12-2010, 09:26 AM
i disagree with you on a few points. i thikn griffen absolutely has the ability to play OLB in a 3-4 and I dont understand why you would think differently. he may not have the experience standing up but he seems from all aspects to have enough athleticism and the right size to translate. with dunlap, ive already said i only think he fits in a 3-4 in certain schemes as an elephant role.

similar for guys like lee, weatherspoon, and washington. its scheme driven. they definitely dont fit any 3-4 defense like other guys but in certain 3-4 schemes theres no reason they couldnt play inside.

im honestly not sold on price either in the 3-4 and ill do some more research on al woods.

I have reservations about Griffen because he hasn't really done anything to put my mind at ease about transitioning to a 3-4. He seems fairly athletic but that's not all it takes for someone to play linebacker. If I remember correctly he didn't really do any linebacker drills during the evaluation process (unless he did them for individual teams who visited his campus), so he probably sees himself as a defensive end. Dunlap, again, I don't think he did any drills and I wouldn't endorse a player who I don't know can play the position. Some parts of the responsibilities of a defensive end and outside linebacker overlap but not all of them. A team might draft one of those two guys to play in a 3-4 but from what I have seen I'm not sure I would.

DiG
04-12-2010, 09:33 AM
Griffen ran linebacker drills during the USC pro day and reportedly looked smooth and impressive in both DL and LB position drills.

killxswitch
04-12-2010, 10:13 AM
With your 4-3 DE rankings are you rating Griffen that high based on his potential only and ignoring his work ethic issues? He appears to have the talent but not the desire, and his history of losing his starting job to someone else at USC seems to back that up. When I watch him he doesn't seem like he has much of a motor. If he did he'd be the #1 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB prospect and a top 10 pick. He just doesn't want to be great.

DiG
04-12-2010, 10:27 AM
With your 4-3 DE rankings are you rating Griffen that high based on his potential only and ignoring his work ethic issues? He appears to have the talent but not the desire, and his history of losing his starting job to someone else at USC seems to back that up. When I watch him he doesn't seem like he has much of a motor. If he did he'd be the #1 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB prospect and a top 10 pick. He just doesn't want to be great.

I have Griffen/Graham/Dunlap all extremely close as a 4-3 DE. Griffen has the talent, like you mentioned, and at the end of the day I just like his transition at DE more than Grahams. Graham might sneak ahead of Griffen on some boards based on scheme but I really like Graham more in a 3-4 role. As a 3-4 OLB i think Graham is a top 15 pick but is more late first at DE. Im not ignoring the work ethic issues at all with Griffen. He's a late first rounder too. I probably should add another tier level between JPP and Griffen to evident the drop off.

killxswitch
04-12-2010, 11:02 AM
I have Griffen/Graham/Dunlap all extremely close as a 4-3 DE. Griffen has the talent, like you mentioned, and at the end of the day I just like his transition at DE more than Grahams. Graham might sneak ahead of Griffen on some boards based on scheme but I really like Graham more in a 3-4 role. As a 3-4 OLB i think Graham is a top 15 pick but is more late first at DE. Im not ignoring the work ethic issues at all with Griffen. He's a late first rounder too. I probably should add another tier level between JPP and Griffen to evident the drop off.

Being a Colts fan I like Graham a lot more, but we utilize undersized speed rushers so it makes sense. I personally think Graham will succeed wherever he goes because he has everything except height. I think Griffen could succeed anywhere, in any scheme, he just has to make the choice to do it.