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Mr16
04-11-2010, 04:34 AM
First off,let me say that im a KC Chiefs fan...To me its very simple for us this draft..Take Berry or trade down! BUT,I have this feeling that we are gonna take an OT (T.Williams or Bulaga) and put them at RT this year. And mabey switch them over to the leftside if B.Albert struggles.And in my personal opinion..that is beyond crazy. We went out and upgraded our interior line via FA with R.lilja and C.wiegmann.So,i dont see Albert going back to guard anytime soon. So,the only thing I can see them doing is keeping him at LT and drafting a RT. And like I said,perhaps switching them around.

That would mean,that for the last three years in a row. We would have used our top five picks and selected two five-technique DE's (Low value for a top 5 five pick) and a RT (VERY low value for a pick that high) If that happens..thats a joke! We would have to be the first team in the history of football,to get that little of value out of three top 5 picks in a row. While other teams are feeling those positions with second and third rounders.We are not only using first round picks. We are using top 5 picks! Gotta be kidding.

What a waste that would be! If we wanted to take a tackle,we could have got a damm "LT" last year.But passed instead. Who passes on a LT last year,for a RT this year. And then reaches on a five-technique DE,when we could get one as good as T.jackson in this years SECOND ROUND. (Joseph,Price,ect)

I say all that to say this. I hear people say all the time "why take a safety this high". "its bad value". Cant be much worse then a five-technique or a RT.So,when it come too the Chiefs...Dont tell me about value at all. And with all that said.....Gooooo Chiefs!!! lol

AntoinCD
04-11-2010, 05:17 AM
First off,let me say that im a KC Chiefs fan...To me its very simple for us this draft..Take Berry or trade down! BUT,I have this feeling that we are gonna take an OT (T.Williams or Bulaga) and put them at RT this year. And mabey switch them over to the leftside if B.Albert struggles.And in my personal opinion..that is beyond crazy. We went out and upgraded our interior line via FA with R.lilja and C.wiegmann.So,i dont see Albert going back to guard anytime soon. So,the only thing I can see them doing is keeping him at LT and drafting a RT. And like I said,perhaps switching them around.

That would mean,that for the last three years in a row. We would have used our top five picks and selected two five-technique DE's (Low value for a top 5 five pick) and a RT (VERY low value for a pick that high) If that happens..thats a joke! We would have to be the first team in the history of football,to get that little of value out of three top 5 picks in a row. While other teams are feeling those positions with second and third rounders.We are not only using first round picks. We are using top 5 picks! Gotta be kidding.

What a waste that would be! If we wanted to take a tackle,we could have got a damm "LT" last year.But passed instead. Who passes on a LT last year,for a RT this year. And then reaches on a five-technique DE,when we could get one as good as T.jackson in this years SECOND ROUND. (Joseph,Price,ect)

I say all that to say this. I hear people say all the time "why take a safety this high". "its bad value". Cant be much worse then a five-technique or a RT.So,when it come too the Chiefs...Dont tell me about value at all. And with all that said.....Gooooo Chiefs!!! lol

And you think the value of safety is higher??? Basically 34 defenses can do nothing if their defensive line can't do their job. At the hieight of their career if you offered me Richard Seymour or Ed Reed im taking Seymour, simply because it is irrelevant how good your secondary is if you cant generate pressure. How many good 34 defenses are there that dont have good defensive lines?

Pittsburgh have Keisel, Smith and Hampton
Baltimore have Ngata, Gregg and Pryce
Dallas have Spears, Ratliff and Olshanksy
The Patriots a few years ago had Seymour, Wilfork and Warren

The best safety of all time can be gameplanned against to limit his effectiveness. Good luck gameplanning against that Baltimore defensive line etc.

You also mention about safety. If Pioli valued safety that highly why did he cut Bernard Pollard to leave such a gaping hole. He played pretty well for the Texans last year.

As for RT. The value of a RT is increasing every year due to the increase of athletic pass rushers and the increase of teams using the 34. Using the Colts as an example of a team with 2 great pass rushers-Dwight Freeney has 32.5 sacks in the last 4 years from the RE spot. Had it not been for injury this total would have been a lot higher. Obviously your LT has to be extremely good to nullify his threat. Robert Mathis 37.5 sacks in the last 4 years from the LE going against RTs.

This shows you cant play teams like the Colts, Steelers etc who have two premier outside rushers if you just decide to pick your RT up in the 4th or 5th round. In the Patriots/Colts game last year Sebastian Vollmer done as good a job as Ive seen in a long time against Dwight Freeney where he limited him to 0TKL, 0 sacks. Robert Mathis absolutely raped Nick Kaczur for 6TKL, 2 sacks and a forced fumble.

The 34 defense has become so popular because a lot of times the offensive line doesn't know where the pressure is coming from. If a defensive genius like Dick LeBeau or Rex Ryan sees a team with a good LT but an RT do you really think they're not going to be able to exploit that?

That is a general arguement for the increased value of a RT. IMO for the Chiefs the value should be a lot higher. Scott Pioli has put all his eggs in Matt Cassel's basket. His success as a GM for the Chiefs probably lies on Cassel's shoulders. Cassel is getting more than $10m a year to be the Chiefs QB. Is he worth it?? Almost certainly not however after giving him all the guaranteed money he got, the Chiefs have no choice but to give him as good a chance as possibility. This includes getting better blocking up front and better receiving options.

I think the pickup of Lilja was a good move however the offensive line is still not good. Looking at the O-line

LT-Brandon Albert by all accounts played well towards the end of the season however I think you'd struggle to find anyone who wouldn't admit he would be a much better guard.
LG-Brian Waters is a very good guard however he is now 33
C-Casey Wiegmann will probably be ther starter but he will start the season at 37
RG-Ryan Lilja. As I mentioned I think Lilja is a good pick up but he is never going to be confused for Steve Hutchinson
RT-Ryan O'Callaghan. On paper this guy should be a monster. But as a Patriots fan believe me when I say he is not. He got cut by the Patriots because he couldnt beat out Nick Kaczur who is probably one of the worst RTs in the league.

Most successful teams will build on the philosphy that you win by having, first of all, your franchise QB. The Chiefs got Cassel and paid him all that money so they must believe he is that. Then the next step is to build through the trenches.

Baltimore for example have Joe Flacco and the defensive line I mentioned earlier. They also had one of the better offensive lines in the league but yet they still drafted Michael Oher. The value is building through the lines.

The NYJ have the best offensive line in football and an extremely good defensive line.

The only exception I can think of of a team who is very successful despite not going by this philosophy is the Colts.

Addict
04-11-2010, 05:46 AM
First off,let me say that im a KC Chiefs fan...To me its very simple for us this draft..

welcome to the forum then...

Take Berry or trade down! BUT,I have this feeling that we are gonna take an OT (T.Williams or Bulaga) and put them at RT this year. And maybe switch them over to the left side if B.Albert struggles.And in my personal opinion..that is beyond crazy. We went out and upgraded our interior line via FA with R.lilja and C.wiegmann.So,i dont see Albert going back to guard anytime soon. So,the only thing I can see them doing is keeping him at LT and drafting a RT. And like I said,perhaps switching them around.

Well Brandon has struggled on the left side, it does make sense for he Chiefs to cut their losses and move him to left guard, his natural position, otherwise Albert will become the next Leonard Davis.
Also, Wiegmann is really getting up there in years (36) so he's by no means a long-term solution. Lilja might be younger at 29, but has an injury history and there's rumors of him failing a recent physical just before the colts cut him: find it right here (http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/3/12/1369686/ryan-lilja-failed-a-physical). So there are still some issues on that O-line. I'm sure you'll agree that generally the OL is more important to get right than the safety position, especially considering the contract that Cassell has.

That would mean,that for the last three years in a row. We would have used our top five picks and selected two five-technique DE's (Low value for a top 5 five pick) and a RT (VERY low value for a pick that high) If that happens..thats a joke!

I kindly refer you to the Milen era of the Detroit Lions. Tyson Jackson wasn't a flashy pick, but it was a huge need. Also you're forgetting the Dorsey pick which was a great one at the time, at least. And to draft a RT or top LG with the 15th overall pick is no shame. Really I think you're overreacting.

We would have to be the first team in the history of football,to get that little of value out of three top 5 picks in a row. While other teams are feeling those positions with second and third rounders.We are not only using first round picks. We are using top 5 picks! Gotta be kidding.

This is absolutely false. Albert wasn't a top 5 pick to begin with, Dorsey and Jackson are both starters on your defensive line and if you were to draft Bulaga or Trent Williams he too would probably start on your O-line. To say that that is no value is just wrong and to claim its the worst result ever for three top 5 picks in a row is just factually incorrect.


What a waste that would be! If we wanted to take a tackle,we could have got a damm "LT" last year.But passed instead. Who passes on a LT last year,for a RT this year. And then reaches on a five-technique DE,when we could get one as good as T.jackson in this years SECOND ROUND. (Joseph,Price,ect)

Last year it wasn't clear if Albert could be a LT, now it is. Hindsight is 20/20. And again, Jackson was a solid prospect and a very good need pick. And a better DE prospect than Price and Linvall Joseph, I might add.


I say all that to say this. I hear people say all the time "why take a safety this high". "its bad value". Cant be much worse then a five-technique or a RT.So,when it come too the Chiefs...Dont tell me about value at all. And with all that said.....Gooooo Chiefs!!! lol

Like I said, you're mistaken on the value of those picks, and overreacting when it comes to the whole RT/LG situation. You seem to be under the impression that Brandon Albert was a top 5 pick while he was the 15th overall selection and your entire argument is based on hindsight. Not to say that you're wrong about Berry, you might be right entirely, but the arguments you use don't hold up.

Again, welcome to the forum ;)

keylime_5
04-11-2010, 10:45 AM
i imagine if they draft Bulaga/Williams then they might start off as a right tackle, but the intention would to be for them to become the blindside protector with Albert moving to the strongside or even left guard eventually. Taking 2 DLs in a row in the top 5 should have absolute zero impact on whether they take a safety or tackle this year.

bored of education
04-11-2010, 10:50 AM
I will say this one more time: drafting Bulaga/Williams/Okung would be ok. But Albert is further along in the process than any of thsoe three for being the blindside protector for another 10 years.

villagewarrior
04-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Actually, Antoin, you would find me who insists that Albert is a much better tackle than guard in the league. He is not a big wide body like Leonard Davis, he wouldn't be able to anchor against bigger defensive tackles the way Davis can. Albert has a tackle's body. Simple as that.

keylime_5
04-11-2010, 11:13 AM
i think it's a matter of giving up like 43 or however many sacks last year with Albert manning the blindside and not solidifying his spot. I remember a lot of Browns fans said taking Joe Thomas didn't make as much sense as taking Adrian Peterson or Brady Quinn at #3 overall b/c we had just signed Kevin Shaffer to a monster contract the year before in free agency. If you have Bulaga/Williams and Albert at tackles then you're set at tackle for a long time just like Miami is with Long and Carey....QB protection is not gonna be a problem. It might be hard to pass up on a supreme talent like Eric Berry, but if they do then the reason for doing it (fixing the OLine) isn't a bad reason.

LonghornsLegend
04-11-2010, 11:33 AM
Pittsburgh have Keisel, Smith and Hampton
Baltimore have Ngata, Gregg and Pryce
Dallas have Spears, Ratliff and Olshanksy
The Patriots a few years ago had Seymour, Wilfork and Warren


I agree with everything else you said, but you could of left us off of these examples, if anything it proves his point.


Spears is a JAG, and while he was a top 15 pick, his play is nothing better then a 4th-6th rounder and he has little to no affect on how well our defense has played. In comparison, Stephen Bowen was undrafted, and has easily outplayed Spears and is making more money then him, even though Spears was a top 15 pick, which I think makes his point for him about taking those types of players top 5.



Igor really isn't anything special either, he's just incredibly strong and can hold the point of attack which is all you really ask, he was a bargain FA acquisition that SD didn't feel they needed to keep.


I agree that you need a D-line to have a great 3-4 defense, but I'd agree with him in that I'd be pretty upset at taking a DE top 5 because if you look around that position is pretty easily filled late in the draft or with better value.

keylime_5
04-11-2010, 11:50 AM
Dallas' 3-4 is a single gap front so it's a lot different when comparing it to teams like New England and PIttsburgh. Ratliff is an all-pro DT though while Spear and Olshansky play the run well. Wade Phillips can coach some defense.

Babylon
04-11-2010, 12:06 PM
First off,let me say that im a KC Chiefs fan...To me its very simple for us this draft..Take Berry or trade down! BUT,I have this feeling that we are gonna take an OT (T.Williams or Bulaga) and put them at RT this year. And mabey switch them over to the leftside if B.Albert struggles.And in my personal opinion..that is beyond crazy. We went out and upgraded our interior line via FA with R.lilja and C.wiegmann.So,i dont see Albert going back to guard anytime soon. So,the only thing I can see them doing is keeping him at LT and drafting a RT. And like I said,perhaps switching them around.

That would mean,that for the last three years in a row. We would have used our top five picks and selected two five-technique DE's (Low value for a top 5 five pick) and a RT (VERY low value for a pick that high) If that happens..thats a joke! We would have to be the first team in the history of football,to get that little of value out of three top 5 picks in a row. While other teams are feeling those positions with second and third rounders.We are not only using first round picks. We are using top 5 picks! Gotta be kidding.

What a waste that would be! If we wanted to take a tackle,we could have got a damm "LT" last year.But passed instead. Who passes on a LT last year,for a RT this year. And then reaches on a five-technique DE,when we could get one as good as T.jackson in this years SECOND ROUND. (Joseph,Price,ect)

I say all that to say this. I hear people say all the time "why take a safety this high". "its bad value". Cant be much worse then a five-technique or a RT.So,when it come too the Chiefs...Dont tell me about value at all. And with all that said.....Gooooo Chiefs!!! lol

That is sort of old school thinking. Nowadays a team will bring in a hotshot coach or GM and they think they can win right away. With free agency and drafting for need teams want to win now, yet somehow it seems the same teams are back at the top of the draft each year.

I was saying the same thing about the Chiefs not taking a Tackle last year and now if they had they'd probably be looking at one of Berry/McCoy or Suh.

If the strategy of playing to the strength of the draft is something a team would do this year i would say get a D-lineman, a safety and a Big RB.(hope your listening Pete Carroll).

vidae
04-11-2010, 12:26 PM
I've said it for months now.. OT would be a bad pick for KC. You can't look at sack numbers as the be all end all, just like you can't look at many other stats and think it tells the entire story.

The offensive line was bad early in the year. I'm not sugar coating it or denying it, they were awful, but there are many different reasons for the sack totals:

a) The biggest, I think, is firing our offensive coordinator a week before the season. Haley then changed the protection schemes, calls, everything. It's no surprise we struggled on offense early in the year, as many of us predicted that we would.

b) Matt Cassel holds onto the ball waaay too long, like Big Ben. With an offensive coordinator who obviously knows how to coach up QBs, I look for this problem to be fixed this year.

c) The team as a whole lost a lot of weight, and Branden Albert in particular struggled a bit early playing at the reduced weight. As the season went on, the OL gelled together, and they gradually changed to the ZBS, he started to improved (along with the rest of the team) and gave up 10 sacks over the last (I want to say..) 8 games, which was second best in the league after the Saints if I remember right.

No Chiefs fan will dispute that Albert has struggled, least of all me, but when you're looking at a top five pick (especially with this team) you have to go BPA AND need. You have to balance them and at this point it really comes down to Eric Berry or Rolando McClain.

Say what you will, but if Pioli targets a player and thinks he is right for his team, and can't trade down, he will pull the trigger.

I'm not saying OT won't be the pick, I'm saying that we have other areas that are much much bigger needs than OT, especially when Saffold and/or Vlad could be there in the second and take over at RT if they feel it's a need (I don't).

PhinsRock
04-11-2010, 12:29 PM
I think it would be a mistake to take a RT at number 5 overall, especially in this year's draft.

I have them taking Rolando McClain...Pioli is a system guy, and McClain would be a great player in that 34, helping out the 31st ranked run D.

Babylon
04-11-2010, 12:37 PM
I think it would be a mistake to take a RT at number 5 overall, especially in this year's draft.

I have them taking Rolando McClain...Pioli is a system guy, and McClain would be a great player in that 34, helping out the 31st ranked run D.

Not sure i disagree with you but implying that you dont take guys that high to play RT but you draft guys to play ILB seems a little strange.

gpngc
04-11-2010, 12:37 PM
But they wouldn't be taking a RT at #5 - they'd be taking a LT.

I don't get it.

Albert moves to guard, Bulaga or Williams is the franchise LT and the offensive line instantly becomes better for the future.

The question is whether or not the coaching staff believes Albert is the LT of the future.

That question will be answered on draft day at pick #5.

vidae
04-11-2010, 12:40 PM
LT: Branden Albert
LG: Brian Waters
C: Casey Wiegmann
RG: Ryan Lilja
RT: Ryan O'Callaghan

What guard spot would Albert go to? The one held down by Brian Waters or the one held down by Ryan Lilja?

Everything they have done this offseason on that line stops making sense if Albert is moved. Our two biggest trouble spots were RG and C, and they've addressed both of them.

Plus, many don't believe Albert can play G in the NFL now after losing the weight and moving out to LT. I guess they could move him inside, but it doesn't seem like there is anywhere for him to play now.

ToldLikeItIs
04-11-2010, 12:46 PM
Why does everyone dislike Bulaga? He'll start at LT for 12 years. He just turned 21.

gpngc
04-11-2010, 12:49 PM
LT: Branden Albert
LG: Brian Waters
C: Casey Wiegmann
RG: Ryan Lilja
RT: Ryan O'Callaghan

What guard spot would Albert go to? The one held down by Brian Waters or the one held down by Ryan Lilja?

Everything they have done this offseason on that line stops making sense if Albert is moved. Our two biggest trouble spots were RG and C, and they've addressed both of them.

Plus, many don't believe Albert can play G in the NFL now after losing the weight and moving out to LT. I guess they could move him inside, but it doesn't seem like there is anywhere for him to play now.

RT.

And Waters is very old.

MikeTeel
04-11-2010, 12:49 PM
LT: Branden Albert
LG: Brian Waters
C: Casey Wiegmann
RG: Ryan Lilja
RT: Ryan O'Callaghan

What guard spot would Albert go to? The one held down by Brian Waters or the one held down by Ryan Lilja?

Everything they have done this offseason on that line stops making sense if Albert is moved. Our two biggest trouble spots were RG and C, and they've addressed both of them.

Plus, many don't believe Albert can play G in the NFL now after losing the weight and moving out to LT. I guess they could move him inside, but it doesn't seem like there is anywhere for him to play now.

Well, he could move to RT.

bored of education
04-11-2010, 12:53 PM
Well, he could move to RT.

Albert is a better LT right now than both Okung and Bulaga, also moving him to RT would actually make LT more of an issue than Albert being at RT.

Babylon
04-11-2010, 12:59 PM
Why does everyone dislike Bulaga? He'll start at LT for 12 years. He just turned 21.


I think there are probably an equal number of people that question Bulaga as question Okung and Williams. Everyone is probably not a good choice of words there.

FrankGore
04-11-2010, 01:02 PM
I don't think Rolando McClain is anywhere close to the BPA at #5. He's a nice ILB for the system they run but taking a guy like that #5 is even less justifiable than Tyson Jackson at #3 IMO. McClain is just not an explosive player and his tackling isn't sound yet. Meanwhile Patrick Willis, Jon Beason, Ray Lewis, etc. have gone no earlier than #11 and they are all far faster run-and-hit linebackers than McClain.

If they want him, take something, anything from a team picking around #10, swap picks and move down. I hate seeing reaches that high.

vidae
04-11-2010, 01:21 PM
I said balance need and BPA. McClain is most definitely the highest need (ILB) on this team, but definitely isn't the BPA.

Splat
04-11-2010, 01:49 PM
I'm just going to wait 11 days and see how it plays out, nothing new is being said on either side of the argument.

RaiderNation420
04-12-2010, 01:41 AM
I have a feeling chiefs take Clausen

Splat
04-12-2010, 08:25 AM
I have a feeling chiefs take Clausen

Ya, two 60 million dollar QB's that makes so much sense...

matts22
04-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Ya, two 60 million dollar QB's that makes so much sense...

Cassel's contract was for $28 million guaranteed.
Sanchez (at #5 last year) also signed for $28 million guaranteed.

Even added together, they wouldn't likely equal the "60 million dollar QB" when you are talking about guaranteed money...which is all that really matters as far as NFL contracts.

Let me ask you this:
Do you think Matt Cassel has the ability to be a franchise QB in the NFL?

If you said yes, what has he shown you to make you so sure he can be a franchise QB? Don't say that he just needs an OL and better WRs...franchise QBs make the team look better, not the other way around.

If you said maybe or no to my question, why wouldn't you try to draft a franchise QB? You only get so many chances and we will NEVER have the opportunity to get a guy that our offensive coordinator trained (in our offense) his whole college career.

Worst case scenario, we draft Clausen and still don't have a franchise QB. At least Cassel's contract makes him easy to cut after this year.

Best case scenario, we have two franchise QBs and will get a first round pick back for one of them through a trade.

The only reason not to draft Clausen is if Weis tells Pioli and Haley that Clausen will never be a franchise QB and he believes that Cassel has that potential. Otherwise, stack the odds in your favor while you have the chance.

vidae
04-12-2010, 05:26 PM
You make it sound easy to get a first round for a QB in a trade. It isn't.

Splat
04-12-2010, 05:59 PM
Taking Clausen would only set the team back farther they would be admitting they made a huge mistake and would have to start the whole rebuilding process over.

There is no way the Chiefs are going to do that the players and coaches they brought in this off season are to help Cassel be the guy.

He could fail sure but they are not going to give up on him all ready they invested way to much.

matts22
04-12-2010, 06:02 PM
You make it sound easy to get a first round for a QB in a trade. It isn't.

It's not hard if he is any good. Teams will give up anything for a star QB. I'd only trade Cassel though if both he and Clausen show the ability to be franchise QBs. We certainly have the money to just hold on to both for 3-4 years if needed.

The Bears gave up TWO 1sts, one 3rd, and Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler and a 5th.
We gave up a 2nd for Cassel, who was mediocre in New England with one of the most prolific offenses in the history of the NFL (yet he was sacked almost 50 times).
The Redskins just gave up a 2nd and a conditional 3rd/4th for a 33 year old Donovan McNabb.
Seahawks gave up essentially a 2nd for Charlie freaking Whitehurst.
Dolphins gave up a 2nd for Culpepper.

My point is that good QBs are NEVER available. If a team has a chance to get a proven QB with a trade, they will do it. If you don't feel that Cassel will ever be good enough to be worth a 1st round pick in a trade, then this is a moot point...you obviously don't see him as having the ability to be a franchise QB.

matts22
04-12-2010, 06:10 PM
Taking Clausen would only set the team back farther they would be admitting they made a huge mistake and would have to start the whole rebuilding process over.

There is no way the Chiefs are going to do that the players and coaches they brought in this off season are to help Cassel be the guy.

He could fail sure but they are not going to give up on him all ready they invested way to much.

I'm not saying that they are going to do it. I'm just saying that it would make sense to draft Clausen if Weis feels that he has a better chance of being a franchise QB than Cassel.

And what have they really invested in him? Weis has been training Clausen for longer than Haley has been training Cassel. Do you want that to go to waste? It isn't a contract issue either, because they structured it so he would be easy to cut after year 2 if he was not successful.

They would not be admitting to making a big mistake...they would simply be bringing in competition at QB and slowly grooming Clausen to take over in a few years as long as Cassel is any good. Pioli says that he wants to change the culture by bringing in competition for everyone. If he really meant that, he would challenge Cassel as well. Talk about a culture shock!

That being said, if they take Berry, I'll be just as excited. That tells me that Weis feels just as good with Cassel as he does with Clausen, and we get to add a true playmaker on defense.

GO_Chiefs
04-12-2010, 10:36 PM
Pick Berry

/thread

RaiderNation420
04-13-2010, 02:54 AM
so no clausen ?

Addict
04-13-2010, 04:31 AM
Pick Berry

/thread


it's not that simple. Pioli is seemingly comfortable enough with a hole at safety considering he cut one of them (pollard?) last season and didn't bother replacing him either. Guy didn't play so bad either.

You're gonna hate it but chances are the pick will be a lineman.

vidae
04-13-2010, 12:20 PM
it's not that simple. Pioli is seemingly comfortable enough with a hole at safety considering he cut one of them (pollard?) last season and didn't bother replacing him either. Guy didn't play so bad either.

You're gonna hate it but chances are the pick will be a lineman.

Nothing but love for you brotha, you know that, but I'm going to respectfully disagree here.

Pollard did play horribly while he was in Kansas City. He went for the knockout blow and never the sure tackle. It was time for him to go and it sucks because I liked him a lot as a player.

I'm glad he is doing well in Houston and hope he continues to kick ass there.

A Perfect Score
04-13-2010, 12:26 PM
I never understood the release of Pollard. At the very least he was a special teams demon with a knack for making huge hits and blocking kicks. KC isn't exactly a team that can afford to be giving away difference makers in any format, even special teams. Not to mention, who did you replace him with? Mike Brown? Come on man.

I'm a big fan of Jarred Page, and I think hes a better player then given credit for. I've been saying the Chiefs should draft McClain for a while now, although where there's smoke, there's fire, so if we continue to hear this business about a lineman, I'd put a little stock in it happening. However, don't be surprised if its a guy like McClain, as Pioli showed last year he isn't afraid to reach for a guy if they feel like he's the kind of player they want on the team.

keylime_5
04-13-2010, 12:33 PM
the trouble with McClain is that if Pioli wouldn't draft an ILB at #3 last year who was a great value, I don't think he'll reach for a guy like McClain this year at #5 who is a bad postional value and a bad value overall. Lots of teams question if McClain can be a 3 down linebacker too - most teams I hear thinks he's just a 2 down linebacker, even some 3-4 teams. I think it's OT or Berry at all the way.

A Perfect Score
04-13-2010, 12:38 PM
To be fair, McClain is a much better fit inside a 3-4 then Curry was last year. I havent heard a single concern as to McClain's ability to play on passing downs...in college, he exhibited excellent instincts in pass coverage and has the lateral movement skills to be effective in the NFL. I agree hes a better player going forward then backwards, but thats what you want in a 3-4 ILB.

LizardState
04-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Why does everyone dislike Bulaga? He'll start at LT for 12 years. He just turned 21.

Actually Bulaga has more than a mere cult following, he's the top ranked tackle in the draft per PFW. I think he's the best in this draft too.

But KC has a miserable defense, that's obviously the biggest area of concern. Trent Dilfer said recently they're thinking too much, they're slow on defense physically & b/c of the system that really needs to be simplified or retooled to better fit the personnel. They need McClain, or better Berry 1st, then settle for Charles Brown with #36 overall.

And if they need to take another defensive guy at 36, maybe hit pay dirt with Washington from Abilene Christian in later rds, he's the 9th-ranked OT per PFW. They'd be wise to avoid high-risk guys like Campbell or Ducasse though IMO.

Splat
04-13-2010, 12:48 PM
I never understood the release of Pollard. At the very least he was a special teams demon with a knack for making huge hits and blocking kicks. KC isn't exactly a team that can afford to be giving away difference makers in any format, even special teams. Not to mention, who did you replace him with? Mike Brown? Come on man.

From what I understand Pollard and Haley clashed big time and very well could have went to blows had something not been done.

keylime_5
04-13-2010, 12:50 PM
To be fair, McClain is a much better fit inside a 3-4 then Curry was last year. I havent heard a single concern as to McClain's ability to play on passing downs...in college, he exhibited excellent instincts in pass coverage and has the lateral movement skills to be effective in the NFL. I agree hes a better player going forward then backwards, but thats what you want in a 3-4 ILB.

Curry's best position would be ILB in a 3-4 as opposed to SLB in a 4-3 or LOLB in a 3-4, but yes McClain is made to play the big thumping guy inside in that system. Curry is more versatile and more of a pass rusher. He's a 3 down guy in any defense. McClain isn't a sideline to sideline guy that 4-3 teams look for, and in nickel packages even in a 3-4 defense he isn't that valuable. The Ryan brothers in particular I have heard think he's only a 2 down 'backer.

Splat
04-13-2010, 12:53 PM
The Chiefs all ready have a side line to side line LB in DJ who should be back to being a starter now that they have a DC that knows what he is doing.

That said the Chiefs don't have any one that is going to get dirty and stick him nose in there and do some thumping, I prefer Berry but would be fine with McClain.

wonderbredd24
04-13-2010, 12:54 PM
My personal opinion was that Curry is a better fit as an inside linebacker in the 3-4 than any other position, because in addition to his ridiculous athletic ability, he could shed blocks. He could do that and play 3 downs.

Rolando McClain is a 2 down backer... if the Chiefs weren't going to take a 3 down guy who could thump, then why would they come back and take a 2 down one?

It doesn't make sense. And the Patriots are a team that works from the inside out... they want strong lines and then they can do things like win the Superbowl with Antowain Smith, Troy Brown, and a pair of undrafted rookie corners.

To me, this logic combined adds up to a left tackle. Improving 3 positions on your offensive line in left tackle, left guard, and center to help give Jamaal Charles more running room and Matt Cassell more time. And your head coach is an offensive coach, so it makes sense from that point as well.

Splat
04-13-2010, 12:57 PM
I don't see how McClain is just a two down backer he might not be as versatile as Curry but I think he would be more then fine playing all three downs.

vidae
04-13-2010, 01:01 PM
How does drafting a LT improve three positions? Are you one of the guys that goes WELL you can put Okung/Bulaga LT, Albert LG and Waters C?

Not going to happen. This offseason we added Wiegmann and Lilja to man the C/RG spots, which were our two biggest weaknesses. Could they be improved? Sure. Is it a big enough glaring need right now to warrant a top 5 pick on OT? Probably not.

And McClain is a three down LB.

keylime_5
04-13-2010, 01:19 PM
i'm not gonna pretend to be a college scout. If Rob Ryan thinks McClain is a 2 down player then that's good enough for me. The fact that there is debate I think eliminates him from top 5 discussion anyway if the fact that he is a 3-4 ILB and not versatile didn't already.

no bare feet
04-13-2010, 01:22 PM
i'm not gonna pretend to be a college scout. If Rob Ryan thinks McClain is a 2 down player then that's good enough for me. The fact that there is debate I think eliminates him from top 5 discussion anyway if the fact that he is a 3-4 ILB and not versatile didn't already.

Link please?

McClain is just as athletic if not more athletic than Mayo.

keylime_5
04-13-2010, 01:30 PM
In the words of Told, there is no link, it's just the way it is. just stuff i heard from people who have heard what Ryan thinks about some defensive players in the draft.

Splat
04-13-2010, 01:33 PM
Nothing against you Key but I don't believe a dam thing any coach/FO person has to say this close to the draft.

I'm not saying he didn't say it but it is really hard to take any ones word this time of the year.

no bare feet
04-13-2010, 02:28 PM
In the words of Told, there is no link, it's just the way it is. just stuff i heard from people who have heard what Ryan thinks about some defensive players in the draft.

I don't listen to he said she said, I let film do the talking esp. in the case of Rolando McClain.

keylime_5
04-13-2010, 02:33 PM
well it's no secret he's a 2 down player in a 4-3 considering his range, so why is it so much of a stretch to believe something someone close to Rob Ryan said? He also said Derrick Morgan is kind of soft. If the Chiefs want McClain they would be ridiculously stupid if they didn't trade down between 10 and 15 first to get him. I don't see how Pioli would take an ILB who has at least some question as to whether he's a 3 down player in the top 5 considering what he did last year with positional value.

AntoinCD
04-13-2010, 02:47 PM
Link please?

McClain is just as athletic if not more athletic than Mayo.

Gotta respectfully disagree there. Im not going to start bashing McClain because I love him as a prospect and some think he's no good anymore because his stock is in the mid to late teens now(which is probably where it always should have been) but he is nowhere near as athletic as Mayo. McClain ran a 4.69 at his pro day. Mayo ran a 4.54 at the combine which equals the fastest linebacker this year. Mayo's sideline to sideline range is also much better. Where McClain is better than Mayo is he has much better instincts and intelligence, is better at shedding blockers and is a better blitzer. Athleticism is not his strong point. However he is a 3 down LBer in the pros

no bare feet
04-13-2010, 05:18 PM
Gotta respectfully disagree there. Im not going to start bashing McClain because I love him as a prospect and some think he's no good anymore because his stock is in the mid to late teens now(which is probably where it always should have been) but he is nowhere near as athletic as Mayo. McClain ran a 4.69 at his pro day. Mayo ran a 4.54 at the combine which equals the fastest linebacker this year. Mayo's sideline to sideline range is also much better. Where McClain is better than Mayo is he has much better instincts and intelligence, is better at shedding blockers and is a better blitzer. Athleticism is not his strong point. However he is a 3 down LBer in the pros


Can I disagree? I think the lateral movement, and fluidity of McClain's hips, change of direction(which may be in line with his instincts) is very underrated. His straight line speed is not on par with Mayo, I agree, since numbers don't lie. But the agility and overall athleticism of McClain is underrated since he only ran a 4.69 at his pro-day.

contento
04-13-2010, 05:24 PM
Williams/Bulaga and Burnett/Allen

OR

Berry and Saffold/Veldheer/Ducasse/Campbell

vidae
04-13-2010, 05:38 PM
The latter, and it's not even close for me.

Saffold and Ducasse and move right in at LG when Waters retires.

GO_Chiefs
04-13-2010, 07:39 PM
The latter, and it's not even close for me.

Saffold and Ducasse and move right in at LG when Waters retires.

What he said.

Take Berry, and Saffold in the 2nd

contento
04-14-2010, 12:01 PM
Williams/Burnett sounds a hell of a lot better to me but different strokes I guess