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View Full Version : "Bad character" busts and "bad character" successes


NJCagefighter
04-11-2010, 07:58 AM
Piggybacking off the workout warrior question we know many players have character issues. But some because of talent are still picked high. Then those with similar issues slide in the draft.

The busts imho are Jamarcus Russell (bad work ethics), Lawrence Phillips (beating up his GF) and Pac Man Jones.

The successes are future HOFers or current Randy Moss, Dan Marino, Warren Sapp.

What others can you name?

Also, on a sidenote, were there character issues with Michael Vick and Big Ben prior to their drafts?

Addict
04-11-2010, 08:19 AM
to my knowledge there weren't any problems in character for Big Ben and Seņor Mexico...

Big Ben's scout report (by Scott)


Strengths: Has everything you look for in a franchise signal caller physically...Great arm...Quick Release...Very accurate...Ideal size...Is more athletic than given credit for...Can make all the throws...Can throw on the run...A true field general.

Weaknesses: You really can't question the level of competition in the Mid-American conference anymore...Must work on reading defenses...Won't beat you with his feet...Has been known to telegraph his throws by staring down his intended target.

Notes: Comes from the same conference that has produced Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich recently...Could very well be the #1 overall pick of the 2004 NFL Draft...Elite prospect and franchise quarterback.

NJCagefighter
04-11-2010, 08:59 AM
to my knowledge there weren't any problems in character for Big Ben and Seņor Mexico...

Big Ben's scout report (by Scott)


Strengths: Has everything you look for in a franchise signal caller physically...Great arm...Quick Release...Very accurate...Ideal size...Is more athletic than given credit for...Can make all the throws...Can throw on the run...A true field general.

Weaknesses: You really can't question the level of competition in the Mid-American conference anymore...Must work on reading defenses...Won't beat you with his feet...Has been known to telegraph his throws by staring down his intended target.

Notes: Comes from the same conference that has produced Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich recently...Could very well be the #1 overall pick of the 2004 NFL Draft...Elite prospect and franchise quarterback.

That's pretty dead on by Scott. If only he had talked about Big Ben's love of Girls Gone Wild it would have been perfect. LOL

bored of education
04-11-2010, 10:20 AM
If I am a GM, which I could be, :) the most fearful character concern to me is work ethic. If you aren't 100% buying in to the system then you don't deserve to play. I don't care if you slam bitches in the club with bottles of Ciroc, I'd be more concerned with a lazy useless entitled bastard. People that are useslee, lazy and poor work ethic are more apt to be the guy in the club slamming bitches with bottles of Ciroc.

Shane P. Hallam
04-11-2010, 11:21 AM
Piggybacking off the workout warrior question we know many players have character issues. But some because of talent are still picked high. Then those with similar issues slide in the draft.

The busts imho are Jamarcus Russell (bad work ethics), Lawrence Phillips (beating up his GF) and Pac Man Jones.

The successes are future HOFers or current Randy Moss, Dan Marino, Warren Sapp.

What others can you name?

Also, on a sidenote, were there character issues with Michael Vick and Big Ben prior to their drafts?


Though more recent, DeSean Jackson and Percy Harvin are good successes.

Chris Henry had issues off the field before being drafted and those continued (he was my #1 WR of that draft, argued with Creek hours upon hours there).

FrankGore
04-11-2010, 11:29 AM
Well, Brandon Marshall fell to the 4th primarily because of character red flags; he's obviously had his issues in the NFL but you could certainly call him a success on the field. Brandon Meriweather had some issues (I remember the fight on the field where he kicked a guy, but not sure what else if anything). Darnell Dockett could be another.

Malaka
04-11-2010, 11:52 AM
I am young, and wasn't around for Marino... what were his character concerns?

NJCagefighter
04-11-2010, 11:54 AM
I am young, and wasn't around for Marino... what were his character concerns?

There were rumors that he was a pothead. God, I wish I was as young as you not to remember this kind of stuff. lol

FUNBUNCHER
04-11-2010, 11:54 AM
Old Skool character concern guys coming out of college; Charles Haley and Lawrence Taylor of the top of my head.

P-L
04-11-2010, 11:55 AM
Though more recent, DeSean Jackson and Percy Harvin are good successes.

Chris Henry had issues off the field before being drafted and those continued (he was my #1 WR of that draft, argued with Creek hours upon hours there).
I'd be interested to hear why you thought Chris Henry was the better prospect than Braylon Edwards.

Malaka
04-11-2010, 11:59 AM
Old Skool character concern guys coming out of college; Charles Haley and Lawrence Taylor of the top of my head.

Lawrence Taylor is crazy man's a coke head with like 10 kids, one of which went to my school, he's actually a DT for Purdue now, Brandon Taylor /random comment

Brent
04-11-2010, 12:13 PM
People thought Josh Morgan was a bad apple coming out of Va Tech. That was nonsense.

Crabtree was supposed to be a bad guy but he's been nothing but a workaholic and model citizen since he was drafted.

Babylon
04-11-2010, 12:42 PM
Piggybacking off the workout warrior question we know many players have character issues. But some because of talent are still picked high. Then those with similar issues slide in the draft.

The busts imho are Jamarcus Russell (bad work ethics), Lawrence Phillips (beating up his GF) and Pac Man Jones.

The successes are future HOFers or current Randy Moss, Dan Marino, Warren Sapp.

What others can you name?

Also, on a sidenote, were there character issues with Michael Vick and Big Ben prior to their drafts?

Marino and Sapp were weed related which nowadays probably gets you a gold star. Ray Lewis would be one that stands out as someone that turned things to the postive.

Players going back to the days of Billy Cannon roughing up people in downtown Baton Rouge and Joe Willie getting ####faced the night before games have a long history of getting into crap.

Creek
04-11-2010, 01:34 PM
I'd be interested to hear why you thought Chris Henry was the better prospect than Braylon Edwards.

I believe it has something to do with his allegiance to a certain state school of Ohio.

parcells
04-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Would you really call Moss a success. Yes he's a Hall of Fame WR, and while the Vikings got a nice ROI from the pick, he had a lot of off-the-field issues and ultimately the Vikings shipped him out of town because of those issues.

Marino and Sapp: definitely.

Go Cowboys
04-11-2010, 02:03 PM
Well I would say that Julius Peppers had a pretty big concern about wether he even wanted to play football, he seemed to play pretty well despite that. I would throw that in the success category.


Edit: I would say it all depends on the person, and the situation, for instance the bad Character flaws seem to enhance when players go to places like Cincinnati. Versus the character flaws all but disappearing when players go to places like New England.

Part of that also deals with draft strategies, do you take a player with minor concerns with good talent or major concerns with Great talent?

Like I said a lot of it deals with the organization they are in it seems.

Addict
04-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Would you really call Moss a success. Yes he's a Hall of Fame WR, and while the Vikings got a nice ROI from the pick, he had a lot of off-the-field issues and ultimately the Vikings shipped him out of town because of those issues.

Marino and Sapp: definitely.

Randy Moss a success you ask? Here's the numbers:

69 1313 19.0 17
80 1413 17.7 11
77 1437 18.7 15
82 1233 15.0 10
106 1347 12.7 7
111 1632 14.7 17
49 767 15.7 13

and don't forget that he was traded for a first and seventh round pick from the Oakland Raiders (picks 7 and a seventh rounder) as well as Napoleon Harris. I'd say Moss was a huge success for minny.

Go Cowboys
04-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Randy Moss a success you ask? Here's the numbers:

69 1313 19.0 17
80 1413 17.7 11
77 1437 18.7 15
82 1233 15.0 10
106 1347 12.7 7
111 1632 14.7 17
49 767 15.7 13

and don't forget that he was traded for a first and seventh round pick from the Oakland Raiders (picks 7 and a seventh rounder) as well as Napoleon Harris. I'd say Moss was a huge success for minny.

Only problem with saying he was good for them witht he trade is well, Napoleon Harris did very little for the Vikes, the #7 pick was on Williamson who also turned out to do very little, and thena couple of unknown 7th round guys. Was he a success at Minnesota ya, but ot say he was a huge success for them would make me think they got more out of him then a couple of backups. Just a thought.

LizardState
04-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Just thinking that maybe Dez Bryant's current alleged predicted drop in the 1st rd. is b/c he plays WR.

Maybe not but maybe so -- he is under more scrutiny than others b/c he violated NCAA rules in college, true, but I think there's a lot of the sins of Michael Irvin, Ocho Cinco & Randy Moss might drive that scrutiny too -- we have this stereotype of the out of control, character issues WR thanks to those guys, & scouts look more closely at WRs coming out of collegte even with hints of character issues.

RealityCheck
04-11-2010, 02:23 PM
How big were Marino's character concerns?

Shane P. Hallam
04-11-2010, 03:00 PM
How big were Marino's character concerns?

Big rumors, but nothing substantiated.

jth1331
04-11-2010, 05:16 PM
Did Rae Carruth have any red flags before he was drafted?

Addict
04-11-2010, 05:23 PM
Only problem with saying he was good for them witht he trade is well, Napoleon Harris did very little for the Vikes, the #7 pick was on Williamson who also turned out to do very little, and thena couple of unknown 7th round guys. Was he a success at Minnesota ya, but ot say he was a huge success for them would make me think they got more out of him then a couple of backups. Just a thought.

way to reason backwards. Napoleon Harris was a third-year linebacker and a former first rounder with potential left at that piont. And the fact that the Vikings did nothing with the seventh overall pick is by no means a strike against Moss. They could have had Merriman, Ware, Jammal Brown, Antrell Rolle or if you insist on having a receiver Roddy White. Point is, the fact they screwed up by take Troy Hands'o'Stone isn't on Moss.

They could have had an All-Pro if they didn't mess up the seventh overall pick by picking Troy Williamson. Now that is just a thought.

adamprez2003
04-11-2010, 05:51 PM
ryan leaf have any character concerns? todd marinovich?

Addict
04-11-2010, 05:52 PM
ryan leaf have any character concerns? todd marinovich?

nope. Do you have thread topic reading concerns?

Creek
04-11-2010, 05:54 PM
What about the ultimate "character concerns" bust... Dimitrius Underwood. Now that dude was crazy.

Brent
04-11-2010, 06:26 PM
Now that dude was crazy.
Crazy like a fox!

No, in all honesty that guy was batshit psycho.

adamprez2003
04-11-2010, 06:49 PM
nope. Do you have thread topic reading concerns?

what language do you speak

coordinator0
04-11-2010, 07:07 PM
what language do you speak

Yuropese? ;)

NJCagefighter
04-11-2010, 07:20 PM
Would you really call Moss a success. Yes he's a Hall of Fame WR, and while the Vikings got a nice ROI from the pick, he had a lot of off-the-field issues and ultimately the Vikings shipped him out of town because of those issues.

Marino and Sapp: definitely.

They were a MOrten or Gary Anderson( i confuse those two) away from playing in the SB and a David whatever his name is nowadays catch away from winning the super bowl. Moss is a success.

YAYareaRB
04-11-2010, 07:29 PM
Marino's were rumors that he smoked pot. MOAR power to him

NJCagefighter
04-11-2010, 10:51 PM
Ironically, one interesting character issue for one Myron Rolle is whether football is his priority over academics. Bet FSU has never and will never have that come up. LOL

Bosanac01
04-23-2010, 12:52 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hXv0e_ByoDs/SpDPiwczmVI/AAAAAAAAB64/vKIs0I1POkk/s400/Joe-Namath---Posed-Passing-Without-Helmet-B-W-Photograph-C11812923.jpg

I'm not sure on his success, but that guy was banging chicks left and right.

He was a party animal.

BaLLiN
04-23-2010, 12:58 PM
Brandon Flowers!!!

losabio
04-23-2010, 01:37 PM
Carl Nicks dropped into the fifth round due to character concerns and is proving to be a really good player.

Jay
04-23-2010, 03:30 PM
Only problem with saying he was good for them witht he trade is well, Napoleon Harris did very little for the Vikes, the #7 pick was on Williamson who also turned out to do very little, and thena couple of unknown 7th round guys. Was he a success at Minnesota ya, but ot say he was a huge success for them would make me think they got more out of him then a couple of backups. Just a thought.

I don't think what they did with the picks really matters. They got a few of the best years a WR has ever produced out of him and then spun him off for a first round pick, a seventh and a serviceable player. That is about as good a value as you can possibly get.

The point of a bad character bust would be if they came in and did not perform up to their talent, if not specifically because of their poor decisions.

Yes, Randy Moss was a success. They'd make that pick again every time.