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Bucs4242
03-16-2007, 02:15 AM
1) UT Amobi Okoye
2) C Ryan Kalil
2b) DE LaMarr Woodley
3) OLB/ILB Buster Davis
4) SS John Wendling
5) WR Rhema McNight
6) OLB Stephen Nicholas
7) WR/PR Chris Davis

Caddy
03-16-2007, 02:20 AM
1) I assume he is taken due to CJ and JT being off the board. I actually think that Gaines Adams would be better, but that is just me.
2a) Ryan Kalil seems to be a popular pick and it is quite a good one.
2b) Lamarr Woodley might be to 1 Dimensional and not quite a good fit for 4-3 Defensive end.
3) Buster Davis is too slow to play anything other than MLB in our D which makes this a poor pick.
4) Wendling is a good pick and is good value in the 4th.
5) Rhema McKnight is a solid pick
6) Why would we take 2 LB's. If we didn't get Davis I could understand, but 2 makes little sense. Also might be slightly optimistic.
7) Its a 7th rounder so I honestly couldn't care less

Didn't we lose our 6th to the Jets for Jolley.

Bucs4242
03-16-2007, 02:26 AM
2007 ROSTER...

offense

QB- Garcia/ Simms

HB- Cadillac, Pittman

FB- Alstott, Askew

WR- Galloway, Stovall, Clayton, McNight, C. Davis

TE- Smith, Becht

LT- Petitgout

LG- Buenning/ (Davis)

C- Kalil

RG- Joseph

RT- Trueblood/ A Davis



defense

RDE- Rice
UT- Okoye, Carter
NT- Hovan, Wyms
LDE- Woodley

WLB- Brooks, Nicholas
MLB- Ruud, B. Davis
SLB- B. Davis, Nece

RCB- Ronde, Bolden
SS- Phillips, Wendling
FS- Allen
LCB- Kelly, Buchanon

K- Bryant

P- Bidwell

Caddy
03-16-2007, 02:32 AM
Buster Davis is not quick enough to play outside linebacker in the cover 2

EDIT: Wyms is an UT and Quarles hasn't retired yet

Bucs4242
03-16-2007, 02:36 AM
1) I agree with you and prefer Gaines Adams. My belief is that Okoye would be the pick

2a) true that

2b0 difference of opinion, but I respect that. I lived in Big 10 country this fall, and watched plent yof BIg 10. I don't care for or have any bias for any programs in the BIg 10, but I was impressed by Woodley's abilities as a pass rusher. Very impressed with him as a football player

3) Another difference of opinion. I think there is maybe 1 LB in the draft that is quicker to the football than Buster Davis. I'm positive he could play all 3 LB positions in the BUcs defense. FSU teaches many of the same concepts on their defense and demands the same type of athletes as the Bucs

4) Thumbs up

5) We need 5 solid LBs...here is our youth...Nece, Ruud, Winborn................that's it! Add Buster Davis and Stehphen Nicholas makes plenty of sense. If you think about it the only draft picks the Bucs have used on LBs the past 10 years have been Nate Webster and Barret Ruud, and maybe Jamie Duncan? We need youth at all 3 levels of the defense

6) Im assuming we gain a 6th round comp pick for Dexter Jackson being lost in FA.

7) Chris Davis is a great athlete and will be exciting as a punt returner

Thanks for the reply

Bucs4242
03-16-2007, 02:38 AM
Wyms has played DE, UT, and NT and hasnt done any of them better than backup caliber. If it would make you happy, I will switch Wyms to UT and Carter to NT but in essence they are both glorified NTs at this point in their careers

Quarles is 35, has had more injuries than Steve McNAIR and as HUGE a Shelton Quarles fan as I am it is obvious he is going to be forced out of the game

That obviously wanst a complete depth chart, just wanted to give a quick run through of a projected roster. Aside from a few FAs that will inevitably (sp?) be added between now and July

Caddy
03-16-2007, 02:46 AM
Seeing as though you took the time to make one, I thought I might just create a quick one to.

1) Calvin Johnson | Might be slightly optimistic but would be the surefire pick if on the board.
2a) Charles Johnson | Instant upgrade to the defensive end position and adds that extra pass rush we have been lacking.
2b) Eric Weddle | At the very least provides safety depth and could start over Allen.
3)Brandon Mebane | Has the potential to start at UT in the future and would feature in defensive line rotation untill then.
4) Quincy Black | Can provide depth at linebacker and possibly be the heir apparent to Brooks.
5) Allen Barbre | Strictly a developmental guy at OT who has the potential to be a LT. Can backup Petitgout.
7) Steve Breaston | Strictly a kick returner

Bucs4242
03-16-2007, 02:50 AM
I like it a lot, even though I dont know much about a couple of the late round guys.

Calvin Johnson would be a great pick, but I think you are fooling yourself being so sure that CJ would be taken over Joe Thomas. Jon Gruden found success in Oakland behind a great OL. Until he has a great OL, he cant keep playing musical chairs at the skill positions the recipe just isnt right. In 2005 this team was very underrated and if not for an inconsistent OL we couldve made some real noise. In 2006 the OL made strides but were mostly flat on their faces with injuries and youth. We have to build this OL, I love the Petitgout signing but this OL is not set yet

Caddy
03-16-2007, 03:03 AM
I like it a lot, even though I dont know much about a couple of the late round guys.

Calvin Johnson would be a great pick, but I think you are fooling yourself being so sure that CJ would be taken over Joe Thomas. Jon Gruden found success in Oakland behind a great OL. Until he has a great OL, he cant keep playing musical chairs at the skill positions the recipe just isnt right. In 2005 this team was very underrated and if not for an inconsistent OL we couldve made some real noise. In 2006 the OL made strides but were mostly flat on their faces with injuries and youth. We have to build this OL, I love the Petitgout signing but this OL is not set yet

Hopefully with Petitgout, Buenning, Wade, Joseph and Trueblood (not inlcuding potential draftees) we are able to start 16 games with the same 5 guys.

That was one of the reasons that Caddy had such a good rookie season. The O-Line was the same for all 16 games allowing a consistent relationship to be built up. We need that kind of relationship again.

etk
03-16-2007, 11:10 AM
Woodley is not a great fit as a base DE. He is short and better suited as a 3-4 OLB. Using a 3rd on Buster Davis would not be smart because we have Barrett Ruud as our MLB of the future, and Davis is not a good fit as an OLB in our schemes IMO.

I like 24cadillac24's mock a lot, I think you addressed our needs perfectly.

Booger
03-16-2007, 11:14 AM
Hopefully with Petitgout, Buenning, Wade, Joseph and Trueblood (not inlcuding potential draftees) we are able to start 16 games with the same 5 guys.

That was one of the reasons that Caddy had such a good rookie season. The O-Line was the same for all 16 games allowing a consistent relationship to be built up. We need that kind of relationship again.

It sounds like Buenning's injury may carry over into a significant portion of next season.

Although Anthony Davis would be a solid starting LG in my opinion.

Bucs4242
03-16-2007, 01:53 PM
Those are both myths concerning Buster Davis and LaMarr Woodley. Strictly scout talk. I dont get caught up in all the hype that fluctuates after the season is over. Its funny to me how a guy can go from a top 10 pick, and to a 2nd round pick without playing a game. Demeco Ryans was a case of this happening, and it turned out great for the Texans


Woodley wasnt too short in college. But we can already label him too short for the pros?

Buster Davis wasnt too short, and anyone who watched him knows he has the speed, but of course draft gurus like to overanalyze every little detail until you have guys like Demeco Ryans dropping to round 2.

I like to evaluate these guys' talent by what they did in October and November, not February and March

etk
03-16-2007, 03:02 PM
No matter how you evaluate them, Woodley still doesn't fit our defense & Davis would be a backup to Ruud. The bottom line is that we don't need a first-day MLB and we would not take Woodley over several other DE candidates like Crowder, Johnson, etc.

Buster Davis will be a great player IMO, a slightly better version of London Fletcher, but his best fit is at MLB, and we don't need him there unless he falls to the 4th.

This Buenning talk worries me a lot, and it completely changes our draft plans IMO. If Davis shifts over to G, we will need a LT backup (Colmer maybe?). If Davis stays at LT, we will need to draft a LG. If Colmer plays LT & Davis plays LG, we will need to draft a RT. How this situation plays out will determine what position we draft (LT, LG or RT). After this is all cleared up, we still need a solid C on Day 1, or we can pray for some major cuts on June 1st from around the league.

Caddy
03-16-2007, 05:03 PM
I like 24cadillac24's mock a lot, I think you addressed our needs perfectly.

Except for center. However, if we do not get Kalil, I don't really see the point in drafting a center.

etk
03-16-2007, 05:04 PM
Except for center. However, if we do not get Kalil, I don't really see the point in drafting a center.

Samson Satele & Doug Datish......that's the only other point.

princefielder28
03-16-2007, 05:06 PM
1) UT Amobi Okoye
2) C Ryan Kalil
2b) DE LaMarr Woodley
3) OLB/ILB Buster Davis
4) SS John Wendling
5) WR Rhema McNight
6) OLB Stephen Nicholas
7) WR/PR Chris Davis

I don't know if you'll get LaMarr that late after his showing today

etk
03-16-2007, 05:08 PM
I don't know if you'll get LaMarr that late after his showing today

You mean LaMarr not participating in the 3-cone drill because of a tight hamstring? Very impressive.

Bucsfan
03-17-2007, 01:15 AM
like the mock, just not sure if woodley can fit in here

Merlin
03-17-2007, 03:27 AM
You mean LaMarr not participating in the 3-cone drill because of a tight hamstring? Very impressive.LOLS!

I thought Woodleys work out was nothing more than ok?

As for the C position, Satele would be a great pick-up, a very versatile physical player who can also play G. (see my mock)

As for Davis, I've really gone off him after watching Mike Singletary whip his ass at the Senior Bowl, he even called him out, in front of the whole LB corp.

Caddy
03-17-2007, 04:26 AM
Do you mean Datish?

Merlin
03-17-2007, 04:46 AM
Do you mean Datish?

No! but I wouldn't be upset if we got him on the second day.

Caddy
03-17-2007, 05:59 AM
No! but I wouldn't be upset if we got him on the second day.

My bad, I thought you were still talking about centers.

Merlin
03-17-2007, 08:09 AM
My bad, I thought you were still talking about centers.
I am!

Your on about Doug Datish from Ohio yeh?

Or,

Did you think I meant Buster Davis (LB) as a centre?

etk
03-17-2007, 09:48 AM
Buster Davis is just a player when it's game time. He has all the intangibles when it comes to playing LB and he just flies all over the field and to the ball all game. If you watched FSU last year, he was the definite standout of the defense, and that's saying something with the talent they have. Buster Davis will terrorize offenses in the pros, but he will have a big problem with getting engulfed by blockers. He might struggle with making plays at the point-of-attack because he is so small that blockers can just lock him down. Other than that he is a rock solid player.

Merlin
03-17-2007, 01:44 PM
Buster Davis is just a player when it's game time. He has all the intangibles when it comes to playing LB and he just flies all over the field and to the ball all game. If you watched FSU last year, he was the definite standout of the defense, and that's saying something with the talent they have. Buster Davis will terrorize offenses in the pros, but he will have a big problem with getting engulfed by blockers. He might struggle with making plays at the point-of-attack because he is so small that blockers can just lock him down. Other than that he is a rock solid player.After reading your list of "problems", I'm even less enamoured with him...lols

I do understand what your saying though ;- )

etk
03-17-2007, 03:05 PM
After reading your list of "problems", I'm even less enamoured with him...lols

I do understand what your saying though ;- )

LOL it is a big problem for him as far as breaking blocks, etc. He will never be a top 5 MLB because of his size limitations, but he can and will be a solid player like London Fletcher or Dexter Coakley.

Bucs4242
03-20-2007, 03:26 AM
No matter how you evaluate them, Woodley still doesn't fit our defense & Davis would be a backup to Ruud. The bottom line is that we don't need a first-day MLB and we would not take Woodley over several other DE candidates like Crowder, Johnson, etc.



Somehoe you continue to miss the point. With Cato June here, it would be a perfect situation to bring in B Davis. He is very much able to play OLB, you can keep repeating to yoiurself that he cant and isnt an OLB but I have watched him play and he is very quick to the ball. He could probably be had at pick 2b

and who says that a) Tim Crowder or Johnson are higher on the BUcs board than Woodley and b) Woodley doesnt fit our scheme? Im not sure if you noticed last year but Woodley was a 4-3 DE the majority of the time and pretty much a full time pass rusher. People are making him out to be this 3-4 OLB when in fact, he played far more at DE in college. And may I ialso point out, was much more impressive in college than Crowder or Johnson. More impressive than Abiamiri also

Bucs4242
03-20-2007, 03:35 AM
Merlin, have you ever watched Buster Davis play? From the sounds of it you were heavily pursuaded from an All Star game practice, and by etk giving you his analysis. So I dont think you have much input in the situation honestly

O and etk, you do realize that there is only a small, small handful of LBs that are successful even half the time at fighting off blocks. Which is why Brian Urlacher was once labeled "overrated" for his inability to fight off blocks back when Chicago lost Ted Washington. Which is also why the same was said about Ray Lewis when he lost Siragusa and the hogs he had in front of him. Very rarely will a 230-250 lb football player "fight off a block" from a 300-330 lb football player when he is within his grasp. The key to playing good defensive football is a DL that disrupts and eats up blocks, allowing the LBs to scrape free. It all starts up front, and as a former LB I can assure you that the LBs depend on the DL a lot in run defense

Buster Davis struggles no more than any other LB when he has a OL or 2 locked on him.

Caddy
03-20-2007, 04:01 AM
I hate to say it, but 42 has a great point about LB's shedding blocks

Merlin
03-20-2007, 06:34 AM
So I dont think you have much input in the situation honestly

Well....I better keep quite then!?!

I don't want to burst your bubble here, but unless your on the Buc's coaching staff, you'll have about as much "input" on the situation as me...

I've only seen him play a few times, and he seemed to be solid enough, but he didn't stand out IMO, and after watching the combine, I was less impressed than before,....thats my opinion, and I can live with it!

Merlin
03-20-2007, 01:15 PM
Now I really don't rate him.... http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#FSU

Buster Davis LB Davis (5-9, 242) ran his 40s in 4.74 and 4.75 seconds, had 11 bench presses and stood on everything else he did at the NFL Scouting Combine.

Eleven!.....are you kidding me!?! I doubt he could fight of my nan, let alone an NFL linemen!

For his sake I hope he picked up a pectorial injury and couldn't continue....eleven???

Bucs4242
03-20-2007, 03:43 PM
Merlin, dont get defensive dude. Im not attacking you. Im simply trying to say, why put in your .02 when you admittedly are making your opinions of him based on nothing he did on the football field? For example, I know very little about Daymeion Hughes, CB out of Cal. He sounds like a good fit for the Bucs, but Im not going to say either way whether he is a good NFL prospect when I havent seen him play before

So it has nothing to do woith whether either of us are in the BUcs organization, it has to do with talking baout something you know nothing about

Again, not trying to be a dyck so dont take that the wrong way

Honestly have you really seen Buster Davis "a few" times? He is arguably the hardest hitter of any position in the draft, and one of the toughest rage filled players in the draft and you are questioning his toughness and stregnth based on pro day numbers?

Again, if you want to be taken seriously when discussing him than tell me you saw the FSU v Maryland game and were very disappointed by what you saw out of him

Merlin
03-21-2007, 01:24 AM
Oh....sorry "dude", I thought when you said "So I don't think you have much input in the situation honestly" I thought you were saying my opinion wasn't worth a sh*t!......my mistake!?!

As for you being a "dyck", I don't think you are, but I can't say anything about anybody else's opinion of you? (obviously)

I don't think I saw him in the FSU - Maryland game, but if I'm honest, I can't remember any of the games I saw him in?

Your right though, I am basing alot of my opinions about him, on what I have read and seen at the combine, along with Senior Bowl week, that includes, analyst's, scouts and reporters, and not forgetting the countless mock drafts.

Your obviously high on him, I'm not!

etk
03-21-2007, 05:32 AM
Somehoe you continue to miss the point. With Cato June here, it would be a perfect situation to bring in B Davis. He is very much able to play OLB, you can keep repeating to yoiurself that he cant and isnt an OLB but I have watched him play and he is very quick to the ball. He could probably be had at pick 2b

and who says that a) Tim Crowder or Johnson are higher on the BUcs board than Woodley and b) Woodley doesnt fit our scheme? Im not sure if you noticed last year but Woodley was a 4-3 DE the majority of the time and pretty much a full time pass rusher. People are making him out to be this 3-4 OLB when in fact, he played far more at DE in college. And may I ialso point out, was much more impressive in college than Crowder or Johnson. More impressive than Abiamiri also

I don't seem to understand....it is a perfect situation to draft him after we just signed a young OLB and we now have a full OLB depth chart? Not only do we not need him and not have room for him on our defense, he is not a good fit as an OLB in our defense.

As far as Woodley goes, he is too short and has been really disappointing so far this offseason. He got pushed around at the Senior Bowl and he didn't run a 3-cone drill because of a "tweaked hamstring". He's not the first or last successful college DE to project to OLB in the pros....

YoJoeBucsFan
03-21-2007, 07:35 AM
You missed Yamon Figures in that draft... He will be a Buccaneer.

Merlin
03-21-2007, 11:52 AM
In Buster's defence, I posted the question in the NFL Draft Forum, some people seem pretty high on him too, and he apparantly benched 24 or 25 at the combine, which is a bit more like it IMO!

I still see him as a 3rd rd'r though, maybe Arizona?

Caddy
03-21-2007, 03:25 PM
You missed Yamon Figures in that draft... He will be a Buccaneer.

You been on the Pewter Report forums. They have a man crush on Figurs over there

etk
03-21-2007, 03:38 PM
We do need to draft a KR specialist, but Figurs is not it IMO. Chris Davis is better, Figurs is more of a gunner than returner.

Caddy
03-21-2007, 03:43 PM
Figurs will probably be drafted earlier than we would like by a team with less needs anyway.

YoJoeBucsFan
03-21-2007, 10:34 PM
You been on the Pewter Report forums. They have a man crush on Figurs over there

Nahh I saw him at the Senior bowl practice.

Merlin
03-21-2007, 11:51 PM
We do need to draft a KR specialist, but Figurs is not it IMO. Chris Davis is better, Figurs is more of a gunner than returner.

How about Mike Walker from Central Florida? did he return kick's/punt's?

Bucs4242
03-22-2007, 03:31 AM
Oh....sorry "dude", I thought when you said "So I

Your obviously high on him, I'm not!



Yea and I saw him play in college and you didnt. SO who deserves more credibility when discussing Buster Davis?


This is getting kind of ridiculous.


If you didnt watch him play in college football games with 90,000 fans in the stadiums than how do you even form a good enough opinion to declare whether you can be high on him or not?


Then you have this other guy (YoJoeBucsFan) who is sold on Yamon Figurs because of Pewter Report. Dont worry Im a paying subscriber to that website, and I wouldnt be upset if we ended up with Figurs. But the only reason you are saying to pencil him in is because of Pewter Report's opinions of him

Then we have this other guy(etk) who actually used this line as an argument against drafting a prospect..."As far as Woodley goes, he is too short and has been really disappointing so far this offseason."

What? This offseason!? LOL. Wow you got me there, I cant argue with someone who is using offseason scouting against actual games Ive watched him play in.

Seriously guys, It's no longer fun to discuss Bucs prospects with yous guys on this board because it seems your opinions are acually stolen from other people's opinions that you're using for your own.

Bucs4242
03-22-2007, 03:43 AM
one last thing etk, At best we could say June, Ruud and WInborn will be starting in 2008. Those are our only 3 starting quality players 1-2 years down the road. Winborn is 50/50 to become a starter. June has tackling problems in a defense that doesnt tolerate such play. Ruud is unproven.

We have 3 possible starters, and only 5 LBs total (Brooks, Nece, Ruud, Winborn, June) so it is very, very likely that between now and 1 year from now the Bucs will add 1 more quality young LB

Why not Buster Davis? Guy can play all 3 LB spots

Merlin
03-22-2007, 05:46 AM
Yea and I saw him play in college and you didnt. SO who deserves more credibility when discussing Buster Davis?


This is getting kind of ridiculous.


If you didnt watch him play in college football games with 90,000 fans in the stadiums than how do you even form a good enough opinion to declare whether you can be high on him or not?
When did posting your own opinions on a Forum become all about credibility, has it become a competition!?!...get over youself...lols

As for your comment "Yea and I saw him play in college and you didnt", next you'll be telling me, that your dad is bigger than mine! (roll eyes)....lols

Using your "logic" concerning you and your 89,999 "mates" kinda makes you wonder why NFL scouts/coaches bother to look at game film, I guess they should hire a scout/coach for every single NCAA team in the land.

For my part, if it's no longer fun to discuss Bucs prospects here, mind the door doesn't hit you in the ass on the way out!

Caddy
03-22-2007, 05:47 AM
This is getting kind of ridiculous.

Seriously guys, It's no longer fun to discuss Bucs prospects with yous guys on this board because it seems your opinions are acually stolen from other people's opinions that you're using for your own.

Bucs4242, it is only confrontational around here because you continue to prolong the difference of opinions. People have differing opinions on things and I think that you, and everyone else need to accept that. We disagree on some things and agree on others. Its not a perfect world, but it is the world we live in.

Caddy
03-22-2007, 05:49 AM
one last thing etk, At best we could say June, Ruud and WInborn will be starting in 2008. Those are our only 3 starting quality players 1-2 years down the road. Winborn is 50/50 to become a starter. June has tackling problems in a defense that doesnt tolerate such play. Ruud is unproven.

We have 3 possible starters, and only 5 LBs total (Brooks, Nece, Ruud, Winborn, June) so it is very, very likely that between now and 1 year from now the Bucs will add 1 more quality young LB

Why not Buster Davis? Guy can play all 3 LB spots

Do the names Antoine Cash or Wesley Mallard ring a bell?

And you need to get over your man crush on Davis ;)

YoJoeBucsFan
03-22-2007, 08:25 AM
Then you have this other guy (YoJoeBucsFan) who is sold on Yamon Figurs because of Pewter Report. Dont worry Im a paying subscriber to that website, and I wouldnt be upset if we ended up with Figurs. But the only reason you are saying to pencil him in is because of Pewter Report's opinions of him



Ok, so because I say this about Yamon Figures I had to have gotten it from Pewter Report. Now I want you to pay attention to something VERY CLOSELY. Where does my location say I am from? Kansas City. Now Yamon Figures went to guess where??? Kansas State. So I have seen him in person 5 times at KSU games, watched him on TV and AT Senior Bowl practice. I don't need Pewter Report or any other message board to tell me how feel. So before you speak, get a clue, it will only help you out. But continue to make assumptions and well, you will continue to put your foot in your mouth.

etk
03-22-2007, 05:37 PM
It is one thing to be controversial, but it is a whole 'nother thing to cater it towards all members of our team forum. Get over your Buster man crush, he's a good player but we don't need him, end of discussion. He would not be a good OLB in our defense, and we have our MLB of the future. If he falls to the 2nd day then we may take him, but he is the 2nd best MLB in the draft so that won't happen.

QFT to the last 4 posts before mine, Jeez!

Bucs4242
03-24-2007, 12:54 AM
When did posting your own opinions on a Forum become all about credibility, has it become a competition!?!...get over youself...lols

As for your comment "Yea and I saw him play in college and you didnt", next you'll be telling me, that your dad is bigger than mine! (roll eyes)....lols

Using your "logic" concerning you and your 89,999 "mates" kinda makes you wonder why NFL scouts/coaches bother to look at game film, I guess they should hire a scout/coach for every single NCAA team in the land.

For my part, if it's no longer fun to discuss Bucs prospects here, mind the door doesn't hit you in the ass on the way out!



Wow, you arent even making sense anymore


Its not about difference of opinion, it's about you admitting you dont have any of your own opinions on Buster Davis and still arguing with me about him using other peoples opinions.

Then somewhere as I explain this lunacy, it gets lost in translation, and your counter argument is "My opinion is worth just as much as yours on here".

Dude its not about Buster Davis, or your opinion of him! Follow... Its about talking about something you know nothing about.














I know nothing about politics so Im not going to go to a political message board and say "Democrats suck" and whenever someone asks me why, get defensive and say "My opinion means as much as yours unless your an actual politician". Your opinion means nothing if you have no knowledge of the subject to support it

Bucs4242
03-24-2007, 01:04 AM
YoJoe, all apologies brother. I am the idiot in your case




Antoine Cash and Wesley MAllard are lucky to be still getting pay checks. Quarles is as good as gone. Brooks is on his way out the door. Cato June and Jamie Winborn are solid IMO, but everyone agrees they are iffey starters who could potentially be solid. That leaves us with Barret Ruud to go along with those 2. So tell me etk, how do you figure we dont need another LB? We need both a backup MLB and a potential starter caliber OLB.

So to once again answer your original question, yea we do have need for a mid round LB of any kind. Also, your evaluation of Buster Davis is simply wrong. He can play OLB, and I would take him at OLB over a guy like Rufus Alexander. Sorry buddy, but he can play OLB and would be a great fit for the BUcs defense.

Caddy
03-24-2007, 01:48 AM
YoJoe, all apologies brother. I am the idiot in your case




Antoine Cash and Wesley MAllard are lucky to be still getting pay checks. Quarles is as good as gone. Brooks is on his way out the door. Cato June and Jamie Winborn are solid IMO, but everyone agrees they are iffey starters who could potentially be solid. That leaves us with Barret Ruud to go along with those 2. So tell me etk, how do you figure we dont need another LB? We need both a backup MLB and a potential starter caliber OLB.

So to once again answer your original question, yea we do have need for a mid round LB of any kind. Also, your evaluation of Buster Davis is simply wrong. He can play OLB, and I would take him at OLB over a guy like Rufus Alexander. Sorry buddy, but he can play OLB and would be a great fit for the BUcs defense.

From the reports of Scott Wright

On Rufus Alexander: "Has good speed and quickness", "Great range and makes plays from sideline-to-sideline", "Has fluid hips and does a nice job in coverage".

On Buster Davis: "Moves well with sideline-to-sideline range", "Struggles to match up and doesn't make a lot of plays in coverage".

Sounds like Alexander is the better fit for a Cover 2 defense. "Projects as a weakside linebacker at the next level...Probably needs to be in the right scheme (Cover 2?) to succeed..."

Merlin
03-24-2007, 07:11 AM
I know nothing about politics so Im not going to go to a political message board and say "Democrats suck" and whenever someone asks me why, get defensive and say "My opinion means as much as yours unless your an actual politician". Your opinion means nothing if you have no knowledge of the subject to support itYet you still have the right to vote...do'yer follow!?!

Let's nip this in the bud, you "obviously" know more about Buster Davis than I.........good for you!


24cadillac24 quote:

From the reports of Scott Wright

On Rufus Alexander: "Has good speed and quickness", "Great range and makes plays from sideline-to-sideline", "Has fluid hips and does a nice job in coverage".

On Buster Davis: "Moves well with sideline-to-sideline range", "Struggles to match up and doesn't make a lot of plays in coverage".

Sounds like Alexander is the better fit for a Cover 2 defense. "Projects as a weakside linebacker at the next level...Probably needs to be in the right scheme (Cover 2?) to succeed..."

End:

Hang on though, while I agree with you and Scott's veiws, quote:

"If you didnt watch him play in college football games with 90,000 fans in the stadiums than how do you even form a good enough opinion to declare whether you can be high on him or not?".

End:

If you or Scott haven't been in said situation, your opinion is obviously worth very little.......isn't that right Bucs4242....lols

etk
03-24-2007, 09:12 AM
See in my opinion you have no credibility on this matter because your blind homerism prevents you from making sober comments about Buster Davis and our team. It's true we need a backup MLB, but we don't need to spend it that early. I'm not going to reiterate this 100 times, Buster Davis would not be a good OLB on our team. He does not have the lateral ability, frame, or strength at the point-of-attack. If Buster was 6' tall and had a slimmer frame, he could play OLB in our system. Either way Derrick Brooks is not retiring for at least 1-2 years, so we won't have an open OLB spot for a while, especially when you consider how Cato June is probably a future starter. We have Ryan Nece, Jamie Winborn, Cato June & Derrick Brooks. Why draft an OLB who is out-of-position over other important needs?

Antione Cash & Wesly Mallard get paychecks because they play special teams, not all backups have to be starter material.....

lol Merlin it's like saying you have to be a homer to have an opinion on a player, completely ridiculous.

Bucs4242
03-27-2007, 04:27 PM
I have no bias towards Buster because of my fandom of the NOles

I think just as highly of Brandon Meriweather and I hate the Canes. I think Meriweather is the best safety in the draft. Whats the difference between my opinion of Meriweather and Davis? You cant call me a homer for being a fan of Meriweather.

I absolutely loathe the Gators but I thiink Dallas Baker is disgustingly underrated right now.

So your theory is flawed. When it comes to draft prospects that I want for the BUcs, I hold no bias.

You guys are pathetic, I am done. Merlin I cant believe you keep responding. The discussion was over when it was discovered that you have very little to no knowledge of Buster Davis and I have 2 years worth of thorough vieweing of the guy

Bucs4242
03-27-2007, 04:33 PM
O btw, I just saw you are from England, Merlin

Glad to see there are BUcs fans over there. I dont think you are any less a Bucs fan as I am because you live in England, and I was born and raised in Tampa. So you should know that before i get on to the next thing...

You live in England! With good reason, you have very little knowledge of college prospects. I mean how much college football do you watch over there? Im guessing none. Its no big deal. Again, you are just as much a BUcs fan as me. But why dont you just sit back and watch during draft time, rather than talking out your azz? Hell my dad has seaosn tickets, and he is a college football fan buut he doesnt know anything about any prospects. Nor does he pretend to just because he reads scouting reports on the internet.

I mean it is beyond laughable at this point

etk
03-27-2007, 05:42 PM
I have no bias towards Buster because of my fandom of the NOles

I think just as highly of Brandon Meriweather and I hate the Canes. I think Meriweather is the best safety in the draft. Whats the difference between my opinion of Meriweather and Davis? You cant call me a homer for being a fan of Meriweather.

I absolutely loathe the Gators but I thiink Dallas Baker is disgustingly underrated right now.

So your theory is flawed. When it comes to draft prospects that I want for the BUcs, I hold no bias.

You guys are pathetic, I am done. Merlin I cant believe you keep responding. The discussion was over when it was discovered that you have very little to no knowledge of Buster Davis and I have 2 years worth of thorough vieweing of the guy

Here's my exact point. The only players you like or speak of are players that you watch. You act as if the only good players are from Florida, and no other prospects exist. I kind of understand your point because I think Meriweather is the 2nd best S in the draft, by far. I am a Canes fan and watch their games, but I don't think that only the players I watch are good. Dallas Baker is underrated a bit, but there are limitations on the Pro Game that you obviously don't understand. Size and speed become very important, and guys like Buster Davis cannot reach their full potential as a LB when they are several inches shorter than they should be. Dallas Baker won't be able to separate on a consistent basis. Troy Smith is undersized, etc.

You have a right to think your opinions are more valuable than others, because you have more direct knowledge of a player. You just take it overboard with your "man-crush" of Buster. He is an absolute beast and a late 1st rounder IMO, but we don't need him and he's not a good OLB in our defense.

It is bothersome sometimes how guys have their "pet players" and stuff when they never actually watch the player, and all their opinions are straight from Scott. Just because he says Joe Thomas is a franchise tackle doesn't mean he is the next Walter Jones. He is a very flawed prospect, and I don't see the high ceiling that will make him any better than a Luke Petitgout or Chad Clifton in their primes.

pirateboy
03-27-2007, 06:22 PM
not addressing the point about "pet players" because that does lead to narrow mindedness, but we all have them if we were completely honest. but to the point about picking players that you have more oportunities to see play. the fact is that the teams actually doing the drafting do the same. in the last 15 years or so the three schools that the bucs have drafted from the most are FSU, Miami, and UF. those are followed closely by schools like Bama, Georgia, GT, South Carolina, Tennesse, and Virginia. those are all schools that either FSU, Miami, or UF play on a yearly basis. now since the beginning of the reign of chucky granted there has not been a single pick from either of the three most popular schools in the bucs' draft pool, but there have still been a large amount of picks from the schools they play against regularly. Auburn, Alabama, NCSU, Mississippi, Clemson, LSU, UNC, Tennessee, and even Boston College. These are all SEC or ACC teams in case you didnt pick up the pattern. The bucs, if no other team in the league, have a tendency to pick players from schools they have been able to see on a regular basis. so the experts do it too. in 1997 why would you take Warrick Dunn in the first round over any other running back available, because you had the opportunity to see him play more than the others. and reidel anthony the same year. jacquez green the next year. id be willing to bet that if the bucs would have had another pick before ike hilliard was snatched up in '97 they would have taken him too. and if they hadnt felt that dilfer was still their guy they would have likely taken Wuerffel that year as well. some of the sticking to the in-state boys has worked out really well for them. brooks and sapp are the best examples.

Merlin
03-27-2007, 06:44 PM
O btw, I just saw you are from England, Merlin

Glad to see there are BUcs fans over there. I dont think you are any less a Bucs fan as I am because you live in England, and I was born and raised in Tampa. So you should know that before i get on to the next thing...

You live in England! With good reason, you have very little knowledge of college prospects. I mean how much college football do you watch over there? Im guessing none. Its no big deal. Again, you are just as much a BUcs fan as me. But why dont you just sit back and watch during draft time, rather than talking out your azz? Hell my dad has seaosn tickets, and he is a college football fan buut he doesnt know anything about any prospects. Nor does he pretend to just because he reads scouting reports on the internet.

I mean it is beyond laughable at this pointOh my God!
Let me pick up my pencil, wave it in your face, and whistle 3 times, peep, peep, peep, not so fast my friend!

you are "special" in so many ways, last year I watched nearly every Notre Dame game "Live" on NBC, I was also able to catch multiple games NCAA/NFL on most of the US Networks "Live", along with the Draft.....lols, the WWW is a wonderfull thing.

On top of that we "Brits" have been following Football on the tube, since the early 80's!

So laugh it up fuzz-ball! (rolling eye's...lols)

etk
03-27-2007, 07:02 PM
Oh my God!
Let me pick up my pencil, wave it in your face, and whistle 3 times, peep, peep, peep, not so fast my friend!

you are "special" in so many ways, last year I watched nearly every Notre Dame game "Live" on NBC, I was also able to catch multiple games NCAA/NFL on most of the US Networks "Live", along with the Draft.....lols, the WWW is a wonderfull thing.

On top of that we "Brits" have been following Football on the tube, since the early 80's!

So laugh it up fuzz-ball! (rolling eye's...lols)

I feel your pain: see bolded

Caddy
03-27-2007, 07:23 PM
Here's my exact point. The only players you like or speak of are players that you watch. You act as if the only good players are from Florida, and no other prospects exist. I kind of understand your point because I think Meriweather is the 2nd best S in the draft, by far. I am a Canes fan and watch their games, but I don't think that only the players I watch are good. Dallas Baker is underrated a bit, but there are limitations on the Pro Game that you obviously don't understand. Size and speed become very important, and guys like Buster Davis cannot reach their full potential as a LB when they are several inches shorter than they should be. Dallas Baker won't be able to separate on a consistent basis. Troy Smith is undersized, etc.

You have a right to think your opinions are more valuable than others, because you have more direct knowledge of a player. You just take it overboard with your "man-crush" of Buster. He is an absolute beast and a late 1st rounder IMO, but we don't need him and he's not a good OLB in our defense.

It is bothersome sometimes how guys have their "pet players" and stuff when they never actually watch the player, and all their opinions are straight from Scott. Just because he says Joe Thomas is a franchise tackle doesn't mean he is the next Walter Jones. He is a very flawed prospect, and I don't see the high ceiling that will make him any better than a Luke Petitgout or Chad Clifton in their primes.

Do I detect an attack on my posts in a previous thread. ;). I would just like to clarrify that is it obvious that he might not be the next Walter Jones, but realistically the same can be said about any prospect. However I do believe he has what it takes to be a franchise tackle. My opinion is different to used and we should be openly accepting of that fact.

Afterall, this is what the draft is about. Discussing which player we should take, positives and negatives etc. Its is obvious that we are rarely going to agree, (except for CJ :))but we all have the Bucs "best interest" at heart.

etk
03-27-2007, 07:30 PM
Do I detect an attack on my posts in a previous thread. ;). I would just like to clarrify that is it obvious that he might not be the next Walter Jones, but realistically the same can be said about any prospect. However I do believe he has what it takes to be a franchise tackle. My opinion is different to used and we should be openly accepting of that fact.

Afterall, this is what the draft is about. Discussing which player we should take, positives and negatives etc. Its is obvious that we are rarely going to agree, (except for CJ :))but we all have the Bucs "best interest" at heart.

That could be a possibility:)......

Some of us don't have the Bucs' best interest in heart. Merlin's best interest is Brady Quinn, Bucs4242 only cares about Buster Davis, etc. ;)

Merlin
03-28-2007, 05:24 AM
That could be a possibility:)......

Some of us don't have the Bucs' best interest in heart. Merlin's best interest is Brady Quinn, Bucs4242 only cares about Buster Davis, etc. ;)

I'm not going to appologise for my opinion, or for the teams I support, as for having our teams "best interest in heart" the same could be said of you and your "Golden Boy" Simms, try practicing what you preach.

And so the worm turns!

Caddy
03-28-2007, 07:21 AM
I'm not going to appologise for my opinion, or for the teams I support, as for having our teams "best interest in heart" the same could be said of you and your "Golden Boy" Simms, try practicing what you preach.

And so the worm turns!

Merlin does have a good point. You are a pretty big Simms homer, but I guess we all have a little homerism within us so you are forgiven :).

etk
03-28-2007, 02:51 PM
I was joking about Quinn & Buster, but I can't understand how you can be a ND fan, they are the media golden-boys, it's ridiculous. As far as Simms goes, I am not a homer and he is no golden-boy, I'm just one of the majority of Bucs fans who appreciate his previous successes and accomplishments and think he is a good QB. If you don't believe in Simms, you weren't a Bucs fan in 2005. I'll leave it at that......

Caddy
03-28-2007, 03:57 PM
I'm all for the best man winning the job in TC. If that happens to be Garcia or Simms, then so be it.

Merlin
03-28-2007, 04:28 PM
I was joking about Quinn & Buster, but I can't understand how you can be a ND fan, they are the media golden-boys, it's ridiculous. As far as Simms goes, I am not a homer and he is no golden-boy, I'm just one of the majority of Bucs fans who appreciate his previous successes and accomplishments and think he is a good QB. If you don't believe in Simms, you weren't a Bucs fan in 2005. I'll leave it at that......I can't blame ND for the media circus that follows them around, and your right, it is ridiculous, but I also don't just sit here and believe all the hype/tripe either, that especially stands for the last two seasons, where we have been touted as possible Champions, either before or during the season, I really have no idea how we made the Sugar Bowl last year? (ok I do, media etc)
I would say though, that being a fan of the Irish isn't easy, it was blatantly obvious that we would get trashed against LSU, but you can't help supporting your team, no matter how bleak it looks.

As for the joke, ok, It just didn't seem to read like that.

As for believing in Simms in 05, I was sitting their waiting for him to make be a believer, and on occasions he did, by doing enough to get the job done. IMO though he still has a hell of a lot to prove, not just to me, but also the coaching staff, otherwise why would we only re-sign him to a two year deal?

etk
03-28-2007, 06:00 PM
As for believing in Simms in 05, I was sitting their waiting for him to make be a believer, and on occasions he did, by doing enough to get the job done. IMO though he still has a hell of a lot to prove, not just to me, but also the coaching staff, otherwise why would we only re-sign him to a two year deal?

Maybe because he was pretty close to awful last year in his few games, and he is coming off an injury........

But that doesn't erase what he has done in the past, and I think our coaches have faith that he will be a good QB and improve every year. They just can't give him a long-term contract because he is far from a guarantee, yet.

ks_perfection
03-28-2007, 08:08 PM
Even when we won the division Simms wasn't great. He was decent, had a few great games and a bunch of dreadful ones. Our defense lead us to the playoffs, Simms had very little to do with it. Our defense isn't as good as it was 2 years ago, so our QB will have to be even more productive to get the same results.

Booger
03-28-2007, 08:12 PM
Even when we won the division Simms wasn't great. He was decent, had a few great games and a bunch of dreadful ones. Our defense lead us to the playoffs, Simms had very little to do with it. Our defense isn't as good as it was 2 years ago, so our QB will have to be even more productive to get the same results.

Yes and no. While our D was ranked #1 in 2005, the offense had to put up a lot of points on many sundays. Simms was solid down the stretch in 2005, give him some credit.

etk
03-28-2007, 08:13 PM
Even when we won the division Simms wasn't great. He was decent, had a few great games and a bunch of dreadful ones. Our defense lead us to the playoffs, Simms had very little to do with it. Our defense isn't as good as it was 2 years ago, so our QB will have to be even more productive to get the same results.

Name and explain these "dreadful games" you speak of....

Simms had plenty to do with us making the playoffs. His relationship with Galloway and their connection fuelled our passing game, and Galloway should've made the Pro Bowl. He made plenty of beautiful throws that made it fun to be a Bucs fan again. Unless Simms regresses (unlikely), our QB will be more productive, and if his play isn't up to par, we have Garcia who has some good football left in him. Our defense was great, but Simms, Cadillac & Galloway were as well. A decent OLine and we would've been a true contender.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:21 PM
As far as Simms goes, I am not a homer and he is no golden-boy, I'm just one of the majority of Bucs fans who appreciate his previous successes and accomplishments and think he is a good QB. If you don't believe in Simms, you weren't a Bucs fan in 2005

ive been a buccaneers fan since birth but honestly i think simms is terrible, inconsistant at best, as i have disliked several of the more popular players in tampa in the last decade or so, johnson and johnson primarily, thats why im all for bringing in someone who is consistant this year, and up to this point they still havent done it. garcia is just as bad as simms if not worse. and think what you want but i see Quinn as one of the good possibilities for the bucs to start building a march back to the superbowl. simms just isnt gonna get us there.

ks_perfection
03-28-2007, 08:24 PM
Games vs Jets and SF immediatly come to mind quickly. The NE pounding, Chicago game, Im sure there more if I looked into it.

Simms did play decently and there lots of plays he made. If the whole team played like Simms did we wouldn't have made the playoffs, thats what I meant by he had little to do with making the playoffs.

etk
03-28-2007, 08:25 PM
ive been a buccaneers fan since birth but honestly i think simms is terrible, inconsistant at best, as i have disliked several of the more popular players in tampa in the last decade or so, johnson and johnson primarily, thats why im all for bringing in someone who is consistant this year, and up to this point they still havent done it. garcia is just as bad as simms if not worse. and think what you want but i see Quinn as one of the good possibilities for the bucs to start building a march back to the superbowl. simms just isnt gonna get us there.

njx wannabe......

Some people are so damn picky with QBs, if you look around the league there are very few legit franchise QBs, but it doesn't take one to win a Super Bowl, especially not in Tampa. Simms & Garcia>>>Brad Johnson.

etk
03-28-2007, 08:26 PM
Games vs Jets and SF immediatly come to mind quickly. The NE pounding, Chicago game, Im sure there more if I looked into it.

Simms did play decently and there lots of plays he made. If the whole team played like Simms did we wouldn't have made the playoffs, thats what I meant by he had little to do with making the playoffs.

SF was his first start, ever. If you think he was inconsistent, remember his age and experience level. Are you all going to give up on him & Gradkowski because they have young inexperience?

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:27 PM
i just want to throw this out there. shaun king had an amazing rookie season in 99 and we turned on him. why do we put up with so much crap from some other guys that dont do as much for us? how much bs did we put up with from keyshawn before we finally said goodbye? why do we shuffle around mediocre at best qbs instead of investing in the teams future with a good qb if nothing else a project qb. you never know who might turn into a great qb. i doubt the steelers expected rothlisberger to be as good as he has been, with the exception of this past injury ridden season. it could be any off the radar qb. not too many people knew who delhomme was until he magically got the starting job in carolina. same goes for tom brady. we just need to start looking elsewhere is what im saying.

etk
03-28-2007, 08:33 PM
we just need to start looking elsewhere is what im saying.

That's a pretty bold statement, we basically haven't given any of our QBs a real chance to prove themselves yet. Well Simms did prove himself as starter material in 05, but you seem to be ignoring that.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:35 PM
njx wannabe......

Some people are so damn picky with QBs, if you look around the league there are very few legit franchise QBs, but it doesn't take one to win a Super Bowl, especially not in Tampa. Simms & Garcia>>>Brad Johnson.

with a quickly aging defense, a less than stellar receiving core, one great back, an all but retired alstott. we are gonna have to start looking to positions we dont normally look to for wins. EG qb. thats why we start looking now. how many seasons do you think brooks, or rice have? or alstott probably his last one here times change, players retire and therefore teams identities change as well. the bucs arent always gonna be one of the best defenses we have to build up other positions as well. for example what happened to the steel curtain in the 80s, what happened to the no name defense, the purple people eaters? all gone. the bucs arent any different they will have to start rebuilding the defense for the future or start building an offense. or at least a little of both.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:39 PM
That's a pretty bold statement, we basically haven't given any of our QBs a real chance to prove themselves yet. Well Simms did prove himself as starter material in 05, but you seem to be ignoring that.

ignoring it? im questioning the legitamacy of that claim. ok maybe good enough to be the starter of the bucs of old where the offense didnt have to be able to put up very many points because the defense was good enough to ride. but that simply wont be for long wont last forever. thats why we need to start looking elsewhere. is simms good enough to be the starter on that bucs team where the offense needs to be able to score? no i dont think so

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 08:40 PM
with a quickly aging defense, a less than stellar receiving core, one great back, an all but retired alstott. we are gonna have to start looking to positions we dont normally look to for wins. EG qb. thats why we start looking now. how many seasons do you think brooks, or rice have?

...How about we just draft defense? Our recieiving core is fine right now and if Clayton can remain healthy he'll be back in rookie form. Alex Smith is a good TE.
We've gotten more depth at the line and Williams has the potential to be a Top 10 back. Simms will have a good year, I'll go ahead and guarantee it.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:41 PM
That's a pretty bold statement, we basically haven't given any of our QBs a real chance to prove themselves yet.

and its not like garcia hasnt been afforded an opportunity elsewhere either. he proved he couldnt do it

etk
03-28-2007, 08:44 PM
I agree our defense has to begin rebuilding, that's my major concern and that's why this year's draft is so crucial. If we draft CJ, Simms will be in the top 1/2 of the league (QB rating). If that's not good enough for you, then you need to become realistic.

If CJ is not available, we need to rebuild the defense like you said. Joe Thomas does not help our defense, unless we play him at DE and he tears his ACL again. This year could be like 1995 for us, starting with Okoye. Maybe Buster Davis will be Derrick Brooks too :P (Bucs4242)

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 08:44 PM
and its not like garcia hasnt been afforded an opportunity elsewhere either. he proved he couldnt do it

Yeah, he sure did blow it with the eagles....

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:45 PM
...How about we just draft defense? Our recieiving core is fine right now and if Clayton can remain healthy he'll be back in rookie form. Alex Smith is a good TE.
We've gotten more depth at the line and Williams has the potential to be a Top 10 back. Simms will have a good year, I'll go ahead and guarantee it.

you cant just draft a defense and expect them to be as good as our defense has been. i agree with you about williams, and clayton, and even smith. so well have one great receiver a good tight end and a great back. well guess what without at least a pretty good number two receiver whats gonna happen clayton is just about always gonna be at least in double coverage. well be able to run the ball yeah, but that hasnt been our M/O before wed have to completely change our philosophy to rely on the running game. we need to improve every position we possibly so that if it comes down to it we could rely on any of them when necessary to win games

etk
03-28-2007, 08:47 PM
and its not like garcia hasnt been afforded an opportunity elsewhere either. he proved he couldnt do it

Umm where were you this year, when Garcia took over a struggling Eagles team and instantly led them into the playoffs (6-2) and almost led them to the conference finals. Once again, 10 TDs and 2 INTs is not good enough for you, pirateboy.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:55 PM
I agree our defense has to begin rebuilding, that's my major concern and that's why this year's draft is so crucial. If we draft CJ, Simms will be in the top 1/2 of the league (QB rating). If that's not good enough for you, then you need to become realistic.

If CJ is not available, we need to rebuild the defense like you said. Joe Thomas does not help our defense, unless we play him at DE and he tears his ACL again. This year could be like 1995 for us, starting with Okoye. Maybe Buster Davis will be Derrick Brooks too :P (Bucs4242)

ok ill agree with you on that given two things 1. he can keep from standing in too long and getting sacked 2. if he can keep from getting hurt.

but i also question if hed be able to handle a larger load if the team needs to rely on offense more. are more throws going to equal more ints for him, lower percentage or dropping back that much gonna lead to that many more sacks? if his percentage and rating stayed right where it is with an increase in throws and attempts then id be happy but i dont think it would

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 08:56 PM
you cant just draft a defense and expect them to be as good as our defense has been. i agree with you about williams, and clayton, and even smith. so well have one great receiver a good tight end and a great back. well guess what without at least a pretty good number two receiver whats gonna happen clayton is just about always gonna be at least in double coverage. well be able to run the ball yeah, but that hasnt been our M/O before wed have to completely change our philosophy to rely on the running game. we need to improve every position we possibly so that if it comes down to it we could rely on any of them when necessary to win games

Drafting defense WILL help our defense into old form, I'll guarantee it to you. Also, Galloway hasn't retired just yet, he's still a decent #2 receiver. We can get our Defense on the right track this year, and next year we can use a pick on a speed WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. Also, whatever happened to Stovall?

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 08:57 PM
flare ups dont impress me. delhomme is on the decline again. i dont think garcia will stay up as long as he did. besides as i mentioned a little while ago shaun king's rookie year was equally impressive and we turned on him as soon as that nfc championship game was over. quick answer no im not impressed by garcia last year. if he can stay around and prove he can be that good year in and year out like brady has then he will impress me

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 09:02 PM
Drafting defense WILL help our defense into old form, I'll guarantee it to you. Also, Galloway hasn't retired just yet, he's still a decent #2 receiver. We can get our Defense on the right track this year, and next year we can use a pick on a speed WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. Also, whatever happened to Stovall?

galloway is still fast as hell but his hands arent as good as they used to be. as far as stovall i hope he turns out to be great but as of right now hes not maybe in a few years. we need a possesion wr. for all his faults thats what anthony was, when it came down to it he could be counted on to make a catch when it was needed. we need a guy we can count on to come down with it and pick up yards on a third and long a mid range guy is what we need opposite clayton. not necessarily a burner

etk
03-28-2007, 09:02 PM
ok ill agree with you on that given two things 1. he can keep from standing in too long and getting sacked 2. if he can keep from getting hurt.

but i also question if hed be able to handle a larger load if the team needs to rely on offense more. are more throws going to equal more ints for him, lower percentage or dropping back that much gonna lead to that many more sacks? if his percentage and rating stayed right where it is with an increase in throws and attempts then id be happy but i dont think it would

I think Simms can handle the full load. His best attribute is his deep ball, and that can't be taught. He needs to work on the short routes, but we are running more shotgun and less 3-step drops. We obviously have much more faith in our offensive line to pass block, so that's good news.

With an increase in throws, I think his completion % would go down, but everything else would be fine. I assume we will be doing a lot of intermediate routes this year, and I think he will flourish when making those throws. Interceptions shouldn't be a problem, because of the offense we run. Our QBs usually throw about 1 a game, but they rarely throw 3 or more.

You have a genuine concern about his ability to deliver the ball on time. He really needs to work on footwork, timing and delivery. Those little intricacies are really the difference between a first-down and a batted ball, but I think Gruden will teach him in time.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 09:07 PM
i think you have too much faith in chucky. our only superbowl win came under him but i pose this question. if dungy had stayed around for that year do you not think dungy would have taken that team that he built to that superbowl anyway?

etk
03-28-2007, 09:16 PM
i think you have too much faith in chucky. our only superbowl win came under him but i pose this question. if dungy had stayed around for that year do you not think dungy would have taken that team that he built to that superbowl anyway?

No, we wouldn't have beaten Oakland under Dungy. He doesn't have the killer instinct like Chucky, and Gruden knew Oakland and Gannon like the back of his hand. Remember how he practiced as Gannon to give the D a good look of his movements and tendencies. It really showed, his gameplanning was brilliant.

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 09:17 PM
galloway is still fast as hell but his hands arent as good as they used to be. as far as stovall i hope he turns out to be great but as of right now hes not maybe in a few years. we need a possesion wr. for all his faults thats what anthony was, when it came down to it he could be counted on to make a catch when it was needed. we need a guy we can count on to come down with it and pick up yards on a third and long a mid range guy is what we need opposite clayton. not necessarily a burner

My point was that we can wait on drafting offense and just get Quality Defensive guys. We have Monte Kiffin and he knows how to judge talent.

Booger
03-28-2007, 09:26 PM
i think you have too much faith in chucky. our only superbowl win came under him but i pose this question. if dungy had stayed around for that year do you not think dungy would have taken that team that he built to that superbowl anyway?

Holy off-topic. Honestly, even if Dungy could have gotten over the Eagles hump, he would have lost to Gruden's Raiders in the Super Bowl.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 09:33 PM
My point was that we can wait on drafting offense and just get Quality Defensive guys. We have Monte Kiffin and he knows how to judge talent.

exactly what im saying we need to start building all acrossed the board every position idc where we start but we need to work on both sides of the ball and this brings me back to an earlier point on this same thread about "pet players" being players you see more often. monte kiffin attended pro day in gainesville and was quoted saying he like all the defensive players from the gators nc team. and that hed like to have all of them. dont be surprised to see nelson go to the bucs number 4 or moss one of them may be the bucs #1 just as likely as cj based on kiffin's statement about those two specifically

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 10:01 PM
exactly what im saying we need to start building all acrossed the board every position idc where we start but we need to work on both sides of the ball and this brings me back to an earlier point on this same thread about "pet players" being players you see more often. monte kiffin attended pro day in gainesville and was quoted saying he like all the defensive players from the gators nc team. and that hed like to have all of them. dont be surprised to see nelson go to the bucs number 4 or moss one of them may be the bucs #1 just as likely as cj based on kiffin's statement about those two specifically

Nelson/Moss at Four? Are you joking? Moss is in the mid 20s at best. If we were to go after Nelson we could trade down to 17 and still get him. About focusing on both sides of the ball, in the last 3 years we've only drafted one defensive player in the first day(Ruud). It's time to think about Defense.

etk
03-28-2007, 10:21 PM
Nelson/Moss at Four? Are you joking? Moss is in the mid 20s at best. If we were to go after Nelson we could trade down to 17 and still get him. About focusing on both sides of the ball, in the last 3 years we've only drafted one defensive player in the first day(Ruud). It's time to think about Defense.

QuotedForTruth

The only Florida defensive player that I can see us drafting is Ray McDonald, if we don't get Okoye. He is my 2nd favourite UT prospect, so I'm all for it.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 10:24 PM
im just speaking about exactly what monte kiffin himself was quoted saying didnt say they should or will

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 10:33 PM
If we're going to talk about In-state defensive players, how about Stephen Nicholas(USF)? He's a guy who I feel could be a great low risk high reward pick. He's not the fastest linebacker, and he's only decent in coverage, but he has great instincts, and roams the field for tackles. I think he'd be a great developmental guy for us and might even start in maybe 3 years. I think we could get him in the fourth, thoughts?

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 10:34 PM
im just speaking about exactly what monte kiffin himself was quoted saying didnt say they should or will

You insinuated that we might pick them. Monte just said the entire defense was good and didn't mention any specific players.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 10:37 PM
its a possibility but its a fact, go count them up if you want, that ive shared on this thread before, before the days of gruden the three schools that tampa drafted from the most are FSU, UF, and Miami ( brooks, sapp good picks) and since gruden there have still been alot of pics from schools that play against them on a regular basis

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 10:39 PM
he made specific comments about nelson i dont have the article in front of me now so i dont have the exact quote. he made general statements about the entire defense and also commented on nelson himself

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 10:41 PM
come to think of it i do remember some specifics of what kiffin said about nelson. he said hes a "ball-hawk" and thats something that cant be taught and he went on about nelson but that is the particular statement i remember him saying off the top of my head

Tampa 2 4 life
03-28-2007, 10:43 PM
its a possibility but its a fact, go count them up if you want, that ive shared on this thread before, before the days of gruden the three schools that tampa drafted from the most are FSU, UF, and Miami ( brooks, sapp good picks) and since gruden there have still been alot of pics from schools that play against them on a regular basis

I wasn't denying that we pick from Florida schools. I was denying that we would pick Nelson or Moss at Four.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 10:44 PM
he also said id like to get em in a car and drive down to tampa its only two hours away

Chucky
03-28-2007, 10:45 PM
I think Marcus Thomas could be a good pickup in the third, definatly the fourth

etk
03-28-2007, 11:01 PM
I think Marcus Thomas could be a good pickup in the third, definatly the fourth

Oh damn, we could definitely draft him too, I forgot. I'd love McDonald or Thomas if we don't get Okoye. There's also Joe Cohen, but he sucks for the most part.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 11:03 PM
which is the one that got caught smoking weed im a gator fan and i dont even remember that... must be all that short term memory loss. lol

etk
03-28-2007, 11:06 PM
Marcus Thomas, he's a freakish athlete, but gotta lay off the dope.

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 11:08 PM
who was the former cowboy that got caught with several pounds?

etk
03-28-2007, 11:21 PM
Nate Newton, he had like over 200 pounds of weed!!

pirateboy
03-28-2007, 11:27 PM
thomas must have been hanging out with him. and probably snoop dog too lol

Caddy
03-29-2007, 12:28 AM
It will be interesting to see how Thomas turns out as a pro. Next Warren Sapp or next Antaaj Hawthorne?

etk
03-29-2007, 09:55 AM
It will be interesting to see how Thomas turns out as a pro. Next Warren Sapp or next Antaaj Hawthorne?

Antajj Hawthorne was never that good to begin with. A fairer comparison would be Darrell Russell. Russell was always a gifted big guy, but he had character issues. Pot issue aside, the important thing is how hard he is willing to work and play. As a defensive lineman, he needs to show the coaches that he has the work ethic to penetrate, otherwise we would never draft him.

Caddy
03-29-2007, 04:13 PM
Either way, he was a pot smoking idiot who wasted any talent that he has. Do you really want to take that chance?

etk
03-29-2007, 04:17 PM
Either way, he was a pot smoking idiot who wasted any talent that he has. Do you really want to take that chance?

I want Okoye, don't get me involved in this :D

Chucky
03-29-2007, 04:31 PM
Either way, he was a pot smoking idiot who wasted any talent that he has. Do you really want to take that chance?

who cares if someone smokes a little reefer, while in college i may add. Who doesnt smoke reefer in university

pirateboy
03-29-2007, 04:34 PM
i know while i was in college i borderlined on being a head but thats all since completely behind me never touch the stuff anymore. maybe hell be the same way

Caddy
03-29-2007, 04:38 PM
who cares if someone smokes a little reefer, while in college i may add. Who doesnt smoke reefer in university

Coaches, other players, NFL officials and Roger Goodell.

etk
03-29-2007, 04:46 PM
who cares if someone smokes a little reefer, while in college i may add. Who doesnt smoke reefer in university

It's a pretty good indicator of how much someone cares about the game, and at a position like DT, you can't afford to "not care" or "not try".

Bucs4242
03-30-2007, 10:31 PM
..................Cheers!