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Bootland27
03-16-2007, 11:06 AM
http://www.mlive.com/lions/weblog/

Lions are looking to trade right now -- and then again later
The Lions are being flooded with trade offers and there's been some speculation out there that president Matt Millen is going to be patient because the price can only go up. But that's not true. According to my sources, the Lions already know what they want out of that No. 2 pick and, if a team steps up to the plate right now, the Lions will pull the trigger.

What's interesting is that there are believed to be several different targets for that No. 2 pick, from Calvin Johnson to JaMarcus Russell to Adrian Peterson to Joe Thomas. The Lions don't have a pressing need for any of those positions so they're willing to drop down. And here's the kicker: the Lions, depending on how far they fall, will be willing to trade down again.

The Lions would like to land Clemson DE Gaines Adams but if they can continue to stockpile picks, they'd be just as happy to fall a little lower and fill some desperate needs like middle linebacker and the secondary.

The point is this: Millen plans on wheeling and dealing for the next six weeks and the ultimate goal is to fill as many needs with as many "Marinelli types'' as possible. A few weeks ago, I said the Lions roster could see a 40 percent turnover going into next season. I now believe -- especially if Millen pulls the trigger on a trade or two -- that that number could exceed 50 percent.

It all seems too logical, what's going on at Allen Park??/

TacticaLion
03-16-2007, 11:18 AM
http://www.mlive.com/lions/weblog/



It all seems too logical, what's going on at Allen Park??/

**** YES! That's what I'm talking about... trade down now and trade down again later... pick up some extra selections... move down... fill the MLB position.

Goddamnit... if he does this, he'll be a genius.

Bootland27
03-16-2007, 11:22 AM
**** YES! That's what I'm talking about... trade down now and trade down again later... pick up some extra selections... move down... fill the MLB position.

Goddamnit... if he does this, he'll be a genius.

If this happened, your man love for Willis will reach epic proportions, if it already hasn't.

TacticaLion
03-16-2007, 11:39 AM
If this happened, your man love for Willis will reach epic proportions, if it already hasn't.Oh no! I need to stop wanting the Lions to draft an incredible prospect at a position of need.

Silly me... I've changed my mind completely. For now on, i'll be like most other Lions fans: CJ or bust. We would, after all, have an incredible WR group.

TacticaLion
03-16-2007, 11:43 AM
http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2007/03/dolphins_may_be_planning_to_tr.html
If the Dolphins gave the Lions a second and No. 9 overall, I bet that would be good enough for Detroit. That would allow them to get the player they want (Patrick Willis) and pick up another second. If they got both second round picks, it's an absolute no-brainer.
Oops... it isn't just me.

I've been saying that they should draft Willis for most of this off-season... and, it seems now that that's the direction they're headed.

Newbs24
03-16-2007, 11:50 AM
The smoke is starting to clear and I have a good feeling that fire is come busting through. If they get bot seconds with their first it still only adds up to 2150 to our 2600. Gonna have to get equal value and I would think they would have to ask for a player that could come in and compete right away.

TacticaLion
03-16-2007, 11:54 AM
The smoke is starting to clear and I have a good feeling that fire is come busting through. If they get bot seconds with their first it still only adds up to 2150 to our 2600. Gonna have to get equal value and I would think they would have to ask for a player that could come in and compete right away.No... they don't need "equal value" to trade down. They seem to have my mentality about this: if you can move down, grab another top pick and STILL draft the player you want, it's a perfect deal.

I'm glad they agree.

Bootland27
03-16-2007, 12:12 PM
http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2007/03/dolphins_may_be_planning_to_tr.html

Oops... it isn't just me.

I've been saying that they should draft Willis for most of this off-season... and, it seems now that that's the direction they're headed.

in all seriousness, yeah i think he's a very good player. Probably the best MLB in the draft in the last few years. May not be the most talented player in the draft, but when it comes to character, its second to none.

Here is his profile from NFL.com
One of the few bright spots during the Rebels' rebuilding process, Willis established himself as the best middle linebacker in college football the last two years. He played most of the 2005 season with a broken right hand, but still ranked sixth in the nation in tackles per game (10.9). He surpassed those totals in 2006, again ranking sixth nationally with an average of 11.42 tackles per game.

One of the most respected players in the country, Willis is also one of the most liked personalities away from the game. A leader both on the field and off, he is heavily involved in community service. Despite all of the accolades he has received the last two seasons, he quietly goes about his job.

How far he has come on and off the field is because of his tireless work ethic. Willis came from a split family environment, as his mother left home more than 15 years ago. At age six, Patrick was cooking breakfast for his younger sister and brothers. At 10, he was picking cotton around his home. The proceeds went to his father, Ernest, to pay the utilities. Even now, Patrick says it wasn't that bad.

Willis would play his final season at Mississippi with a heavy heart after the death of his brother, Detris. Detris, 17, had been swimming with friends in gravel pits near the family's hometown of Bruceton. The 218-pound teenage linebacker cramped up. "Once he cramped up, it just spread," Patrick said. "He was the biggest one out there. No one could pull him out." Patrick would dedicate the rest of his career to the memory of his brother.

TacticaLion
03-16-2007, 12:54 PM
in all seriousness, yeah i think he's a very good player. Probably the best MLB in the draft in the last few years. May not be the most talented player in the draft, but when it comes to character, its second to none.

Here is his profile from NFL.comIn terms of overall talent for his position, he's gotta be in the top 10 players in this draft.

Xiomera
03-16-2007, 01:15 PM
http://www.mlive.com/lions/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_lions/archives/2007_03.html#244505

Friday, March 16, 2007http://www.mlive.com/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.mlive.com/images/spacer.gif
Lions are looking to trade right now -- and then again later
The Lions are being flooded with trade offers and there's been some speculation out there that president Matt Millen is going to be patient because the price can only go up. But that's not true. According to my sources, the Lions already know what they want out of that No. 2 pick and, if a team steps up to the plate right now, the Lions will pull the trigger.

What's interesting is that there are believed to be several different targets for that No. 2 pick, from Calvin Johnson to JaMarcus Russell to Adrian Peterson to Joe Thomas. The Lions don't have a pressing need for any of those positions so they're willing to drop down. And here's the kicker: the Lions, depending on how far they fall, will be willing to trade down again.

The Lions would like to land Clemson DE Gaines Adams but if they can continue to stockpile picks, they'd be just as happy to fall a little lower and fill some desperate needs like middle linebacker and the secondary.

The point is this: Millen plans on wheeling and dealing for the next six weeks and the ultimate goal is to fill as many needs with as many "Marinelli types'' as possible. A few weeks ago, I said the Lions roster could see a 40 percent turnover going into next season. I now believe -- especially if Millen pulls the trigger on a trade or two -- that that number could exceed 50 percent.


Curtis didn't want to live in Detroit
In a development that is sure to endear him to Lions fans, one of the major reasons free agent receiver Kevin Curtis didn't sign with the Lions is because he didn't want to live in Detroit.

Several sources have confirmed that Curtis brought this up several times during the free agency period. Most of those involved didn't believe it would be a deal-breaker, but it apparently was. That's why the situation with Curtis and the Lions cooled shortly after his visit in Detroit.

It ultimately didn't matter, though, because the Lions weren't going to give him the money the Eagles did -- $32 million over six years. That's about $1 million more per year than the Lions believed Curtis was worth.

As far as Plan B, it's basically the same strategy as when the Lions missed on out on free agency middle linebacker London Fletcher -- there isn't one. The Lions don't see any help in free agency at this point and will go into the draft looking for a receiver -- although the first priority remains the defensive side of the ball. Calvin Johnson at the No. 2 pick is a possibility, but a very slim one.

Xiomera
03-16-2007, 01:17 PM
If there is any truth to that first article, and there definatly appears to be, then all of our wishes could easily be granted. A double trade down . . . we could end up getting ourselves three more day one picks this year, all for simply moving off of #2!

TacticaLion
03-16-2007, 01:45 PM
If there is any truth to that first article, and there definatly appears to be, then all of our wishes could easily be granted. A double trade down . . . we could end up getting ourselves three more day one picks this year, all for simply moving off of #2!Exxxxxxxactly. It could actually be 3-4 more day 1 picks (and/or players). I like the position we're in... and i'm glad they're looking to fill holes.

I wrote Kowalski about the "no back-up plan for Curtis" comment and how wen "can't fill that spot with another FA". I think we did just that with McDonald.

Addict
03-16-2007, 02:04 PM
Oh no! I need to stop wanting the Lions to draft an incredible prospect at a position of need.

Silly me... I've changed my mind completely. For now on, i'll be like most other Lions fans: CJ or bust. We would, after all, have an incredible WR group.

oh... reverse psychology... I like. :D

Seriously though, if millen manages to pull this off, he IS a genius... I mean drafting as many Marinelli types as he can... that's a good thing, the blog gives the idea he's not just out to save his job.

Xiomera
03-16-2007, 02:41 PM
"Reverse psychology is an awesome tool, I don't know if you guys know about it, but basically you can make someone think the opposite of what you believe, and that tricks them into doing something stupid. Works like a charm."

--Michael Scott

TacticaLion
03-16-2007, 03:38 PM
oh... reverse psychology... I like. :D

Seriously though, if millen manages to pull this off, he IS a genius... I mean drafting as many Marinelli types as he can... that's a good thing, the blog gives the idea he's not just out to save his job.Canadian will STILL find a way to insult him. We could go 16-0 and he'd STILL say "Well... our record over the last 7 seasons is ## and ##... which is below .500%".

WMD
03-17-2007, 04:36 AM
As much as I didn't like it when it first happened..

THANK YOU ERNIE SIMS FOR STOPPING TONY ROMO ON 4TH DOWN!!!

Xiomera
03-17-2007, 09:05 AM
As much as I didn't like it when it first happened..

THANK YOU ERNIE SIMS FOR STOPPING TONY ROMO ON 4TH DOWN!!!

Amen to that . . .

TacticaLion
03-17-2007, 09:43 AM
As much as I didn't like it when it first happened..

THANK YOU ERNIE SIMS FOR STOPPING TONY ROMO ON 4TH DOWN!!!I'm so glad they won that game...

Addict
03-17-2007, 02:16 PM
Canadian will STILL find a way to insult him. We could go 16-0 and he'd STILL say "Well... our record over the last 7 seasons is ## and ##... which is below .500%".

hehe. Well you gotta hand it to him, he's consistent.

Mythos
03-17-2007, 03:22 PM
George Will: "The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proved right or pleasantly suprised."

Iamcanadian
03-17-2007, 03:48 PM
Ya, trading down always works, ask Chicago who traded down and got Michael Haynes and Grossman in round 1. That's with a GM who has proven to be a decent drafter. Once you get out of the top 10, the talent dropoff is immense and there are no sure things even when a good GM is making the picks. People always get enamoured by having a lot of 2nd and 3rd rounders but in 6 years of drafting we've had 1 2nd rounder turnout to be a star(Rogers), that about a 16% chance of real success. H---mmmmm, the good football teams are always looking to trade up, I wonder why??? Could it be that good football organizations realize that the impact players go early in the draft and they want them on their team. The fact of the matter is that Detroit simply doesn't have impact players and looking for them later in round 1 or with 2nd and 3rd rounders, you have a very low chance of getting one. In 50 years of following the draft I've never seen a team rebuild successfully by trading down out of the top 10. You finish last which is rewarded by a high pick so you can get the stars needed to finish 1st. It just amazes me how quickly everybody gets on the Millen bandwagon, a man who has personally destroyed this franchise for 6 years and nobody asks if his plans to trade down will really work for Detroit in the long run. The man has absolutely no knowledge on how to build a winner and you all follow him like the Pied Pipper.
For those who are excited by drafting Willis, I point out to you that Indy, a cover 2 team has never had even an average MLB and Tampa Bay didn't consider the position important either. These cover 2 teams are quite happy to have average players at the MLB position because it just isn't that crucial to the cover 2. The cover 2 defense stats with the DE's and 1 DT who are all excellent pass rushers. No MLB is going to make our defense something special and unless we draft a player like Adams, our cover 2 will be ridiculously average to below average and teams will continue to score on us without fail. I'm not saying Willis isn't a good player or that we don't need a MLB, but the position isn't a primary one in a cover 2 defense and he isn't going to impact this defense that much unless we can mount a fierce pass rush.
We continue on the journey of passing on impact players, this sorry franchise will match every record for incompetence that exists. Unfortunately Millen doesn't know what an impact player looks like, so he is probably prepared to accept more picks hoping he'll get some right.
As a side note, if Oakland drafts Johnson, all our leverage for trading down will shift to Tampa Bay. They will become the target for teams wanting to trade up. Why pay Detroit's asking price if trading with Tampa Bay will accomplish the same thing. That's why Millen is anxious to trade down now before Oakland makes their pick, unfortunately other teams will probably want to wait to see what Oakland does before committing themselves.

TacticaLion
03-17-2007, 05:52 PM
Ya, trading down always works, ask Chicago who traded down and got Michael Haynes and Grossman in round 1. That's with a GM who has proven to be a decent drafter. Once you get out of the top 10, the talent dropoff is immense and there are no sure things even when a good GM is making the picks. People always get enamoured by having a lot of 2nd and 3rd rounders but in 6 years of drafting we've had 1 2nd rounder turnout to be a star(Rogers), that about a 16% chance of real success. H---mmmmm, the good football teams are always looking to trade up, I wonder why??? Could it be that good football organizations realize that the impact players go early in the draft and they want them on their team. The fact of the matter is that Detroit simply doesn't have impact players and looking for them later in round 1 or with 2nd and 3rd rounders, you have a very low chance of getting one. In 50 years of following the draft I've never seen a team rebuild successfully by trading down out of the top 10. You finish last which is rewarded by a high pick so you can get the stars needed to finish 1st. It just amazes me how quickly everybody gets on the Millen bandwagon, a man who has personally destroyed this franchise for 6 years and nobody asks if his plans to trade down will really work for Detroit in the long run. The man has absolutely no knowledge on how to build a winner and you all follow him like the Pied Pipper.
For those who are excited by drafting Willis, I point out to you that Indy, a cover 2 team has never had even an average MLB and Tampa Bay didn't consider the position important either. These cover 2 teams are quite happy to have average players at the MLB position because it just isn't that crucial to the cover 2. The cover 2 defense stats with the DE's and 1 DT who are all excellent pass rushers. No MLB is going to make our defense something special and unless we draft a player like Adams, our cover 2 will be ridiculously average to below average and teams will continue to score on us without fail. I'm not saying Willis isn't a good player or that we don't need a MLB, but the position isn't a primary one in a cover 2 defense and he isn't going to impact this defense that much unless we can mount a fierce pass rush.
We continue on the journey of passing on impact players, this sorry franchise will match every record for incompetence that exists. Unfortunately Millen doesn't know what an impact player looks like, so he is probably prepared to accept more picks hoping he'll get some right.
As a side note, if Oakland drafts Johnson, all our leverage for trading down will shift to Tampa Bay. They will become the target for teams wanting to trade up. Why pay Detroit's asking price if trading with Tampa Bay will accomplish the same thing. That's why Millen is anxious to trade down now before Oakland makes their pick, unfortunately other teams will probably want to wait to see what Oakland does before committing themselves.Interesting... I rarely see teams drafting in the 24+ range trading up to the top 5. Regardless, talent can be found anywhere in the draft... and having more picks improves those chances.

Oh, also... there's this player named "Brian Urlacher"... heard of him? He plays for what could be considered the best Cover 2 defense in the NFL... and, believe me, they wouldn't be AS good as they are without him. Having an impact player at MLB is very important... and the Lions are lacking that.

I'm not going to sit here and list every reason as to why you're wrong. I'd rather trade down, grab more picks and fill our needs. Marinelli knows who he's looking for, and he'll draft the right players.

Addict
03-17-2007, 08:04 PM
Interesting... I rarely see teams drafting in the 24+ range trading up to the top 5. Regardless, talent can be found anywhere in the draft... and having more picks improves those chances.

Oh, also... there's this player named "Brian Urlacher"... heard of him? He plays for what could be considered the best Cover 2 defense in the NFL... and, believe me, they wouldn't be AS good as they are without him. Having an impact player at MLB is very important... and the Lions are lacking that.

I'm not going to sit here and list every reason as to why you're wrong. I'd rather trade down, grab more picks and fill our needs. Marinelli knows who he's looking for, and he'll draft the right players.

who? Seriously, Tactical, you can't just make these guys up.

seriously though. You're right.

Iamcanadian
03-17-2007, 08:20 PM
Interesting... I rarely see teams drafting in the 24+ range trading up to the top 5. Regardless, talent can be found anywhere in the draft... and having more picks improves those chances.

Oh, also... there's this player named "Brian Urlacher"... heard of him? He plays for what could be considered the best Cover 2 defense in the NFL... and, believe me, they wouldn't be AS good as they are without him. Having an impact player at MLB is very important... and the Lions are lacking that.

I'm not going to sit here and list every reason as to why you're wrong. I'd rather trade down, grab more picks and fill our needs. Marinelli knows who he's looking for, and he'll draft the right players.

Except Urlacher wasn't drafted by Lovie Smith, he hadn't brought his cover 2 to Chicago yet. Chicago has 3 great pass rushing DE's and a great DT who can all apply a tremendous pass rush on the passer, Urlacher is just an added bonus. Just like having Bly was an added bonus for us. You don't need a great CB to play the cover 2 but it certainly doesn't hurt to have one. A cover 2 defense has to be built from the DL out, not a great DL = a very average defense for a cover 2. A great MLB isn't going to change that, it certainly doesn't hurt but it won't make your cover 2 defense great. The 1st thing Chicago did when they hired Lovie Smith was to draft Tommie Harris. They traded for Adewale Ogunieye to play DE and they both teamed with Brown to have a great DL. Most cover 2 teams have pedestrian players playing MLB for them and one won the Super Bowl.
Yes, good players can be found later in the draft but in 6 years Millen has found 1 star after the 1st round(Rogers). As for Marinelli, Martz has all the say over the offense, so how does Millen handle a conflict between Marinelli and Martz over who to draft. If Marinelli had his choice Adam Gaines would be the player because Adams fits his system perfectly and would make Detroit's cover 2 very effective. If Martz has his choice, Johnson would be the pick or Thomas or Quinn. He had a great pair of WR's in St Louis and an All Pro LT.
Millen has brought in a lot of Martz's ex players so you know Millen trusts him.
It's going to be a very interesting draft to say the least, but saying Marinelli will decide who we draft just doesn't fit the facts, Millen will decide who we draft and that has to worry anybody.

TacticaLion
03-17-2007, 09:54 PM
Except Urlacher wasn't drafted by Lovie Smith, he hadn't brought his cover 2 to Chicago yet. Chicago has 3 great pass rushing DE's and a great DT who can all apply a tremendous pass rush on the passer, Urlacher is just an added bonus. Just like having Bly was an added bonus for us. You don't need a great CB to play the cover 2 but it certainly doesn't hurt to have one. A cover 2 defense has to be built from the DL out, not a great DL = a very average defense for a cover 2. A great MLB isn't going to change that, it certainly doesn't hurt but it won't make your cover 2 defense great. The 1st thing Chicago did when they hired Lovie Smith was to draft Tommie Harris. They traded for Adewale Ogunieye to play DE and they both teamed with Brown to have a great DL. Most cover 2 teams have pedestrian players playing MLB for them and one won the Super Bowl.
Yes, good players can be found later in the draft but in 6 years Millen has found 1 star after the 1st round(Rogers). As for Marinelli, Martz has all the say over the offense, so how does Millen handle a conflict between Marinelli and Martz over who to draft. If Marinelli had his choice Adam Gaines would be the player because Adams fits his system perfectly and would make Detroit's cover 2 very effective. If Martz has his choice, Johnson would be the pick or Thomas or Quinn. He had a great pair of WR's in St Louis and an All Pro LT.
Millen has brought in a lot of Martz's ex players so you know Millen trusts him.
It's going to be a very interesting draft to say the least, but saying Marinelli will decide who we draft just doesn't fit the facts, Millen will decide who we draft and that has to worry anybody.If you took Urlacher out of the Bears defense, the defense would be "good". Urlacher is what makes that defense incredible.

The difference between Urlacher and Bly is that Urlacher is a great player and Bly is a solid cover corner... and nothing more. He didn't fit the defense... while Urlacher certinally does.

The difference between the team that won with the Cover 2 defense and the team that lost with the Cover 2 defense was the offense... and, no, there isn't an argument here. If you had a choice between both defenses, which would you choose? The answer is obvious. If you had a choice between both offenses, which would you choose? Once again, obvious. Using the Colts as proof as to why a Cover 2 can use "pedestrian players" and still be successful is a horrible argument... because they won with solid defensive play and an incredible offense.

Wow... if Martz had his choice, Quinn would be the pick? Well... you said that he had a great pair of WRs and an All Pro LT... but must've forgotten that his QBs were low-drafted players. The reasoning isn't accurate (again).

The fact that the Lions WILL trade down (and are looking at pick #9) says a lot about the direction of the draft. It's obvious that Marinelli would love to have GAdams, but I think they're looking at two other players in round 1: Landry or Willis. Marinelli isn't just about overall talent (or numbers), but about leadership, drive and dedication. He loves players like Dan Bazuin, and might look to grab him instead of GAdams (they've already got White, who Marinelli loves, and Edwards, a pass-rusher). Yes, Adams would be an upgrade, but Landry or Willis would be much greater upgrades at their positions.

Millen may have the final say, but I think Marinelli's voice is being heard loud and clear. And, regardless of what you say, the Lions are not doomed with Millen.

Iamcanadian
03-18-2007, 12:23 AM
If you took Urlacher out of the Bears defense, the defense would be "good". Urlacher is what makes that defense incredible.

The difference between Urlacher and Bly is that Urlacher is a great player and Bly is a solid cover corner... and nothing more. He didn't fit the defense... while Urlacher certinally does.

The difference between the team that won with the Cover 2 defense and the team that lost with the Cover 2 defense was the offense... and, no, there isn't an argument here. If you had a choice between both defenses, which would you choose? The answer is obvious. If you had a choice between both offenses, which would you choose? Once again, obvious. Using the Colts as proof as to why a Cover 2 can use "pedestrian players" and still be successful is a horrible argument... because they won with solid defensive play and an incredible offense.

Wow... if Martz had his choice, Quinn would be the pick? Well... you said that he had a great pair of WRs and an All Pro LT... but must've forgotten that his QBs were low-drafted players. The reasoning isn't accurate (again).

The fact that the Lions WILL trade down (and are looking at pick #9) says a lot about the direction of the draft. It's obvious that Marinelli would love to have GAdams, but I think they're looking at two other players in round 1: Landry or Willis. Marinelli isn't just about overall talent (or numbers), but about leadership, drive and dedication. He loves players like Dan Bazuin, and might look to grab him instead of GAdams (they've already got White, who Marinelli loves, and Edwards, a pass-rusher). Yes, Adams would be an upgrade, but Landry or Willis would be much greater upgrades at their positions.

Millen may have the final say, but I think Marinelli's voice is being heard loud and clear. And, regardless of what you say, the Lions are not doomed with Millen.

Well, I appreciate your arguments for your position although I obviously disagree and you love the Lions, so your entitled to your opinions, but I've suffered through too many decades of being a Lion's supporter to be too optimistic about their chances for success. Your young and you'll just have to learn the hard way what a bad owner and GM mean to an organization. You can perhaps overcome a bad owner and make the playoffs but in 50 years of being a sports fan and a draftnik long before the hobby was as popular as it is today, I have NEVER seen a sports team overcome a bad owner or a bad GM nevermind both to ever win much of anything.
Anybody who thinks that a GM who has a 6 year record of 24-72 can build a winner is living in a fool's paradise. It is NEVER going to happen but I guess you'll have to learn the hard way.
The NFL is full of very successful HC's like Mooch (see Dungy) who aren't severe disiplinarians or tough guys. There are also HC's who are like Marinelli who have had great careers. Either method will work if you have talent on your team and the HC is good at what he does. We certainly lack talent and Marinelli hasn't proven that he is much of a HC as of yet. 3 wins doesn't make you good at what you do and he may never be a good HC. We just don't know yet. Tough disiplinarians fail just as often as player's HC's which Mooch was. It doesn't equate to sure fire success.
Also if Marinelli is getting rid of the wrong type of players and has the say you believe he does, why is Mike Williams still on the team. He is the complete opposite of a Marinelli player and don't talk about a cap hit because if your carrying a player who you won't use, your taking the cap hit anyways, so explain to me why Williams is still around?? I think you way overestimating Marinelli's say in the organization, he is the only HC in the NFL who has absolutely no say over his offense including who makes the team on that side of the ball. Our last draft was nothing special unless you factor in that our #1 pick became a starter, boy, the NFL is sure suprised when a top 15 pick becomes a starter in his rookie year, it's not like Sims was DROY or anything, he didn't come close to being that. New Orleans and Buffalo got 4/5 starters out of their draft, we got one so far. How is that much of a dynamic improvement, oh ya I forgot, getting our #1 pick to be a starter is an exception to the rule during the Millen era, and this guy is going to lead us to the promised land. I think you need to take off you rose coloured glasses and see the reality of our situation. Our organization which is plagued by a rotton owner(see 50 years of futility), run by a GM(see a 24-72 record), coached by a HC who only has a say over our defense, is so dysfunctional that building a winner just isn't in the cards. I don't care if Marinelli is the second coming of Vince Lombardi or Bill Belichick, he cannot win under these adverse conditions.
Sorry to rant on but after 34 years of supporting this team, I think it very clear that a complete housecleaning is called for before we have any hope for success. I'm not a fair weather fan but I am a realistic person and the reality I'm seeing looks pretty ugly to me.

Pocket
03-18-2007, 09:24 AM
It's not the GM Canadian, it's the owner. Ford is not a football guy, he doesn't care if the team is bad, because people still attend the games.

Addict
03-18-2007, 10:18 AM
It's not the GM Canadian, it's the owner. Ford is not a football guy, he doesn't care if the team is bad, because people still attend the games.

Well maybe it's time to mobilize all fans and to stop showing up. That oughtta show-em.

TacticaLion
03-18-2007, 12:06 PM
Well, I appreciate your arguments for your position although I obviously disagree and you love the Lions, so your entitled to your opinions, but I've suffered through too many decades of being a Lion's supporter to be too optimistic about their chances for success. Your young and you'll just have to learn the hard way what a bad owner and GM mean to an organization. You can perhaps overcome a bad owner and make the playoffs but in 50 years of being a sports fan and a draftnik long before the hobby was as popular as it is today, I have NEVER seen a sports team overcome a bad owner or a bad GM nevermind both to ever win much of anything.
Anybody who thinks that a GM who has a 6 year record of 24-72 can build a winner is living in a fool's paradise. It is NEVER going to happen but I guess you'll have to learn the hard way.
The NFL is full of very successful HC's like Mooch (see Dungy) who aren't severe disiplinarians or tough guys. There are also HC's who are like Marinelli who have had great careers. Either method will work if you have talent on your team and the HC is good at what he does. We certainly lack talent and Marinelli hasn't proven that he is much of a HC as of yet. 3 wins doesn't make you good at what you do and he may never be a good HC. We just don't know yet. Tough disiplinarians fail just as often as player's HC's which Mooch was. It doesn't equate to sure fire success.
Also if Marinelli is getting rid of the wrong type of players and has the say you believe he does, why is Mike Williams still on the team. He is the complete opposite of a Marinelli player and don't talk about a cap hit because if your carrying a player who you won't use, your taking the cap hit anyways, so explain to me why Williams is still around?? I think you way overestimating Marinelli's say in the organization, he is the only HC in the NFL who has absolutely no say over his offense including who makes the team on that side of the ball. Our last draft was nothing special unless you factor in that our #1 pick became a starter, boy, the NFL is sure suprised when a top 15 pick becomes a starter in his rookie year, it's not like Sims was DROY or anything, he didn't come close to being that. New Orleans and Buffalo got 4/5 starters out of their draft, we got one so far. How is that much of a dynamic improvement, oh ya I forgot, getting our #1 pick to be a starter is an exception to the rule during the Millen era, and this guy is going to lead us to the promised land. I think you need to take off you rose coloured glasses and see the reality of our situation. Our organization which is plagued by a rotton owner(see 50 years of futility), run by a GM(see a 24-72 record), coached by a HC who only has a say over our defense, is so dysfunctional that building a winner just isn't in the cards. I don't care if Marinelli is the second coming of Vince Lombardi or Bill Belichick, he cannot win under these adverse conditions.
Sorry to rant on but after 34 years of supporting this team, I think it very clear that a complete housecleaning is called for before we have any hope for success. I'm not a fair weather fan but I am a realistic person and the reality I'm seeing looks pretty ugly to me.

That's one thing you've got on me: the experience. I can't claim to have supported the Lions for 30+ years, and I haven't had to witness the reocurring failures that you have. Regardless, what happened in the past does NOT dictate what will happen in the future. You keep saying how horrible the franchise is... and how they'll never win... yet it could happen.

Mike Williams is still on the roster because it's still the offseason and they want to see how serious he is about playing. If he comes in great shape and works hard, why get rid of him? They wont. If he shows up and is the same late, overweight, I-don't-really-care player, than he'll be cut. And that's the correct approach to have in Marinelli's position. I don't think he's a "cancer" in the locker room, which is why they didn't get rid of him sooner.

And, no... getting rid of Bly and Hall were great. They didn't want to be here, so why keep them? You can be the most talented player in the NFL, but if you don't want to play for the team you're on, you wont perform. I haven't heard that MWilliams "doesn't" want to be on the team, so it isn't the same situation.

As you said, you'll have your opinions and I'll have mine. But, there's a big difference to having an opinion and being wrong about the situation.

LIONHE4RT
03-18-2007, 06:24 PM
The cover 2 system doesn't need superstars. They need each position to follow its assignment. There was a really nice article on how the cover 2 functions in one of the other sites. There are a few musts in this defense. The front four must provide pressure on the quarterback (which is something we lacked last year). The MLB is a key to this defense in that he must be able to cover the middle of the field (another thing we lacked last year).

The reason I think Willis will be such an asset to this defense is that he will be its general (another thing we lacked on defense last year). He also has great sideline to sideline speed (4.51 forty). What is probably the most important, however, is his ability to cover the pass. Last year we got burned too many times on passes up the middle and draw plays.

Our defense will be greatly improved with the addition of DeWayne White and Patrick Willis.

asmitty45
03-18-2007, 08:34 PM
So where is Quinn in all this? im 1000000% percent for as many trade downs as possible to land either Willis/Adams, but is Quinn completely out of the picture now? and does that mean they have their eye squarely on Stanton? I hope so b/c i think Stanton has the arm and athleticism to excel in our offense.

TacticaLion
03-18-2007, 09:09 PM
So where is Quinn in all this? im 1000000% percent for as many trade downs as possible to land either Willis/Adams, but is Quinn completely out of the picture now? and does that mean they have their eye squarely on Stanton? I hope so b/c i think Stanton has the arm and athleticism to excel in our offense.I guess I never considered Quinn an option. I thought that, if they took a top 5 player, it would be Thomas, Adams or Peterson. With the signing of Duckett and the trade for Bell/Foster, Adams seems like the choice (IF they don't trade down).

Iamcanadian
03-18-2007, 10:22 PM
The cover 2 system doesn't need superstars. They need each position to follow its assignment. There was a really nice article on how the cover 2 functions in one of the other sites. There are a few musts in this defense. The front four must provide pressure on the quarterback (which is something we lacked last year). The MLB is a key to this defense in that he must be able to cover the middle of the field (another thing we lacked last year).

The reason I think Willis will be such an asset to this defense is that he will be its general (another thing we lacked on defense last year). He also has great sideline to sideline speed (4.51 forty). What is probably the most important, however, is his ability to cover the pass. Last year we got burned too many times on passes up the middle and draw plays.

Our defense will be greatly improved with the addition of DeWayne White and Patrick Willis.

Sorry to put a hole in your balloon, but Willis is considered to be a very weak pass defender. He has a lot of problems dropping into pass coverage and that is why he is currently considered a 2 down player. His strength is attacking what is in front of him not going back into pass coverage.

Iamcanadian
03-18-2007, 10:33 PM
It's not the GM Canadian, it's the owner. Ford is not a football guy, he doesn't care if the team is bad, because people still attend the games.

I agree 100%, the organization starts with Ford but Millen is his hire and simply reflects Ford's incompetence. There isn't another football team that will ever hire Millen as their GM once he leaves Detroit, however it's Ford who keeps him in his job, and untimately, Detroit's 40+ years of futility rests on Ford's shoulders. Incompetent owners hire incompetent GM's and they both then blame the HC for their own failures. Nevertheless, Ford doesn't run the draft, doesn't chose the FA's and doesn't choose the HC's. Millen does that and therefore has clearly demonstrated that he is equally inept with Ford.

dreadedluck
03-21-2007, 09:36 PM
They always say a loser can not pick a winner. So Marinelli, Millen, Martz all losers. Trade down trade up trade to the side, it doesnt matter. Killer you maybe happy with a career backup Jon Kitna, that is a good moral man but is barely servicable. Anyone that belives that a quick fix is possible, well has not listened to Millen over the past six years. Cause every year he stockpiles the load high with we are so close we are only a couple of players away. Millen says he likes what he has, well NO one likes the worst record in Footbal over the past six years. Millen has never been able to fix anythnig, not even his poor choice of tennis shoes and a sports jacket look with the khakis is as bad as every football decision he has made. Including such a high pick on Simms, and a lockeroom selfish player in Williams(its just a first down roy act like you been there, or at least dont be surprised that you actually caught the ball)

Best idea fire everyone including columnists that support the worst GM in Football. Ford should get this team taken from him. I still feel bad about H Moore, R. Porcher, J. Morton, B. Sanders, S. Mariucci, C. and every Detroiter that has a Ford Vehicle. In fact so many people have been disrespected in Detroit i am surprised that anyone wants to come here. It is a shame Ford has help to ruin not only my State but also my Team.

reinar
04-10-2007, 03:57 AM
Ford bought the team for 5M, and its worth 750M, so I guess in his eyes, he is doing well.

Millen had no experience, and should not have been GM, and still shouldnt, but at least he brought Marinelli in, and the team I think is indeed turning around.

I see 8-8 as very achievable, and 10-6 as possible with a good defensive draft to slow down the opponents.