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drowe
04-24-2010, 03:33 PM
Damn. I like CJ Wilson as a DE. but, I was just starting to like the Mike Neal pick. Now, it seems redundant. Ah well.

umphrey
04-24-2010, 03:35 PM
Some initial thoughts:
This draft has a lot of potential but it won't get a high initial grade. We are clearly looking to the future, not throwing everything we have at a superbowl run this year. There must not have been any CBs or OLBs high on TTs board when we made our selections and none good enough to trade up for. Surprised we passed completely though.

C.J. Wilson: We picked him because he's a good player, didn't think any farther. And he is a steal in the 7th IMO. Probably headed to the PS and it's clear TT is letting Jolly go and wants depth on the DL.

James Starks: Like him a lot, almost put him in the draft challenge, but he's too much of a Ryan Grant clone too me. We failed to add a scat back which is disappointing. Although I didn't think there were many options past McCluster and McKnight. When I was looking at RBs for the Packers the next name that came up that I thought would be a good fit was Starks.

Newhouse: Productive 3 year starter at LT with the size and arms to play LT in the pros. Good value in the 5th. We can now drop Giacomini and Barbre who were going no where. Newhouse could probably do OK at guard right away and maybe, just maybe, could develop into a solid starting tackle.

Quarless: Really reminds me of Finley. Size/speed are similar. Like Finley I think he was immature in college and when he realized he was screwing up his NFL chances he started to fly straight. GB should be the perfect place to help him do that. I don't think he'll be causing trouble with Finley, I think he'll be learning from him. I like the pick because if Finley gets hurt we can use Quarless and have the same type of player on the field. Hopefully this means we're dropping Lee. I thought we would go with a blocking TE but it's obvious now that doesn't exist in our offense, which makes sense because of all the fullbacks we have. If it works out, and I think it will, I love the thought of lining up in 2 TE sets and having both TEs capable of motioning out to receiver. I think that's what McCarthy was thinking with this pick.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 03:44 PM
Ted Thompson on lack of LOLB pass rusher opposite Clay Mathews: "We're going to work at it ... we're going to try to add some stuff to that position."

http://twitter.com/jasonjwilde

cvv84
04-24-2010, 03:48 PM
Ted Thompson on lack of LOLB pass rusher opposite Clay Mathews: "We're going to work at it ... we're going to try to add some stuff to that position."

http://twitter.com/jasonjwilde

But he also said:

"Pass rushing in this defense isn't just from the outside linebacking spot."

"I understand people are concerned about (LOLB) but we don't think it's as dire as everybody makes it out to be."

umphrey
04-24-2010, 03:51 PM
Bears had a good draft but not enough ammo to do anything that worries me. Major Wright could start right away, Wootten was a good pick though I don't see much upside there, and LeFevour was a steal in the 6th but since he's working with the Bears QB coaches his chances of developing into a starter drop significantly.

Vikings did OK with their first 3 picks and after that their entire draft might fall off the map. Chris Cook has a low floor and ends up being average at best, IMO. He's a bad matchup for our receivers. Gerhart will probably make them better too, but he doesn't scare me because of all the meat we have on our DL and depth to keep them fresh. I just really wished he went to a team outside our division and where he wasn't paired with a premier back so he could be the star of a 1-2 punch. Griffin was overrated as a prospect but he might do well on that line and gives them depth I wish they didn't have. Really glad they didn't get a DT.

The Lions had another good draft and I don't see how they aren't competing for the division title in 2 years. Stafford, Calvin Johnson and Suh are all superstars and they are starting to put decent players around them instead of the usual scrubs. I had Jason Fox rated highly and I wanted the Packers to take him. Best could be very productive with the defense spread out defending the pass.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 03:56 PM
The Lions had another good draft and I don't see how they aren't competing for the division title in 2 years. Stafford, Calvin Johnson and Suh are all superstars and they are starting to put decent players around them instead of the usual scrubs. I had Jason Fox rated highly and I wanted the Packers to take him. Best could be very productive with the defense spread out defending the pass.

As crazy as that sounds, I agree. While Matt Millen is over at ESPN calling Ron Jaworski a "Pollack" on air, the news heads in Detroit have put together 2 quality offseasons in a row. Their core of young studs is pretty impressive.

cvv84
04-24-2010, 03:59 PM
As crazy as that sounds, I agree. While Matt Millen is over at ESPN calling Ron Jaworski a "Pollack" on air, the news heads in Detroit have put together 2 quality offseasons in a row. Their core of young studs is pretty impressive.

Just imagine if they took Oher over Pettigrew. Their offensive line is really the only thing holding back their offense. If they can get Stafford to limit the mistakes and keep Calvin Johnson healthy they have the potential to have a top tier offense.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 04:00 PM
But he also said:

"Pass rushing in this defense isn't just from the outside linebacking spot."

"I understand people are concerned about (LOLB) but we don't think it's as dire as everybody makes it out to be."

I don't think it's "dire", I was just trying to settle some confusion about many wondering why they didn't address what was thought to be a need. I would have liked to see another LB drafted, but I'm not worried at all about the position. They are going to be banking a lot on Brad Jones. But there is depth on the team, so the Packers should be fine.

cvv84
04-24-2010, 04:03 PM
@jasonjwilde: Depth at OLB: "We're not where we need to be right now. That's something we're working on." Thompson also hinted of addition.

Breno, Tauscher, and Lang will compete at RT.

Spitz will battle at LG and center.

Bulaga looks like he'll primarily stay at LT.

PackerLegend
04-24-2010, 04:09 PM
Why did we not add anybody to the CB or OLB spots?

J-Mike88
04-24-2010, 04:11 PM
"I understand people are concerned about (LOLB) but we don't think it's as dire as everybody makes it out to be."
Broken record. That's exactly the same patented line he fed us when many people voiced big concerns about the plan to roll Al Barbre out there at RT -and his plan to not have a backup LT other than kicking out his LG.

J-Mike88
04-24-2010, 04:13 PM
Why did we not add anybody to the CB or OLB spots?
Ted prefers to utilze free agency and add talent to the roster that way, like the Jets, Bears, Vikings do. ;)

And he will tell you he believes his guys will just naturally develop and improve faster than the other 31 teams guys will. We coach em up better in Green Bay. :p

umphrey
04-24-2010, 04:16 PM
Hopefully we didn't take a CB because Lee and Underwood were showing some real talent and potential in practices. Also Burnett might be a good nickle back, but I think he outplays Bigby and thus is a starter. Not happy about it.

I also wish we could have gotten an OLB with measurables. Outside of the Neal pick, I think we took the top guy on our board and did an excellent job finding guys that could get playing time or become starters. After Burnett, we were into round 5 and at that point in the draft you pretty much have to forget about need.

J-Mike88
04-24-2010, 04:18 PM
Ugh. We don't need DLine depth. We needed secondary/linebacker depth...even an ILB since Hawk has a year left.

Im shocked we didn't take an OLB. CB? I somewhat understand, but wow we're putting a lot of faith in the guys we have. Our pass defense could kill us.Deju Vu again?

umphrey
04-24-2010, 04:20 PM
The way Thompson approached the draft since he's been here, I like. When he got here he traded for as many draft picks as he could to build up the talent level, then as the team got younger and competitive he started trading up to add some potentially elite guys.

cvv84
04-24-2010, 04:24 PM
Hopefully we didn't take a CB because Lee and Underwood were showing some real talent and potential in practices. Also Burnett might be a good nickle back, but I think he outplays Bigby and thus is a starter. Not happy about it.

I also wish we could have gotten an OLB with measurables. Outside of the Neal pick, I think we took the top guy on our board and did an excellent job finding guys that could get playing time or become starters. After Burnett, we were into round 5 and at that point in the draft you pretty much have to forget about need.

I've pretty much given up on Lee but I still have hopes for Underwood. We'll have to see though. Trammon didn't step up and show he's a capable starting CB and he may be more suited to stay in that nickle role.

I'm a big Brad Jones fan and by all reports he has been bulking up over the offseason but still, failure to add depth is questionable. Ideally we would've landed either Kindle, Schofield, or Norwood after the 1st round but we're able too. We loaded up the defensive line but at LB we're spread pretty thin.

I'm going to wait until after this weekends minicamp to put up my 2010 draft review though.

The way Thompson approached the draft since he's been here, I like. When he got here he traded for as many draft picks as he could to build up the talent level, then as the team got younger and competitive he started trading up to add some potentially elite guys.

Same here, and I guess I kind of expected him to do that this draft. Getting Bulaga is one thing, but failure to add a LB and CB is another thing.

J-Mike88
04-24-2010, 04:26 PM
Quarless is a decent pick. I'm fine with it.
James Starks is a decent pick too. Had he not gotten hurt last year, he might gave been a 3rd round pick. Nice value there.

What I am pissed off the most about his the mismanagement of taking Neal in round 2 instead of Burnett there. Neal would 99% have been there in round 3 still, and then we could have taken AOA in round 4 at CB, where Dallas took him with the pick after the one we traded away in round 4 to trade up for Burnett.

Dallas walked into him, and Dez Bryant, thanks to us IMO and I really hope we don't regret that down the road. Plus AOA is a stud of a return specialist.

J-Mike88
04-24-2010, 04:29 PM
I think we need to cheer up about our overall draft.

From Walt:

2010 NFL Draft Grades: GREEN BAY PACKERS

23. Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa
The Packers fill their biggest need with the best player available. Great job. (Pick Grade: A)

56. Mike Neal, DE/DT, Purdue
This is not a need, but that doesn't matter to the Packers; they take the top guy on their board. Personally, I don't see the value here, but maybe I'm wrong. (Pick Grade: C)

71. Morgan Burnett, S, Georgia Tech
The Packers had to address the safety position at some point in the 2010 NFL Draft after that ugly loss to the Cardinals. Morgan Burnett is a solid prospect who fits this range. (Pick Grade: B)

154. Andrew Quarless, TE, Penn State
Andrew Quarless is a first-round talent, but had tons of off-the-field issues. He also doesn't seem interested in playing football. Maybe he'll turn his life around, but I doubt it. (Pick Grade: C)

169. Marshall Newhouse, G, TCU
I had this guy going earlier in my mock than he should have just because of Al Davis. But Marshall Newhouse is really good value here, as the Packers continue to bolster their offensive front. (Pick Grade: A)

193. James Starks, RB, Buffalo
I love James Starks as a mid-round prospect; he would have gone higher had he not gotten injured last year. He should be a great complement for Ryan Grant. (Pick Grade: A)

230. C.J. Wilson, DE/DT, East Carolina
This doesn't fill a need, but that's not what the Packers are all about. They take the best player on their board, and it shows; C.J. Wilson was a Round 5-6 prospect. (Pick Grade: A)

bigboiajhawk
04-24-2010, 04:31 PM
My initial reaction after this draft is:

We added depth to our roster. We were a good team last year that had absolutely zero depth at a number of positions. Our OL, Safety, and DL depth all improved to where we don't have to worry about a guy missing one or two games.

Still, landing Bulaga made this draft for me. I really am impressed with the Bulaga and Burnett picks (I give TT kudos for the Burnett trade up, he must have known by looking at his draft board that all of the good Safeties would be gone unless he traded up)

I really like a lot of the picks this year, hopefully they pan out.

umphrey
04-24-2010, 04:36 PM
I agree that he potentially really screwed up badly by passing on CB and OLB. I just can't torch him for it because I watched the entire draft unfold, and there wasn't really any point (except the Neal pick, that's going to be a common statement from me) where there was a CB or OLB that I thought was worth taking over who we got, and it would have even been tough to trade up for one.

For example, I would have supported a trade for Kindle if he had lasted another 5 picks or so, but he was just outside what I thought the range was. Also trading up for a guy with no cartilage in his knee is even riskier than just drafting a guy with no cartilage in his knee.

Then there were some good CBs in the 3rd and 4th, but with the picks we had left trading up to get one wasn't an option.

I wouldn't write off Lee completely. He's just been hurt, but he's very athletic and talented and was a second round pick. Before anyone brings up Harrell, he has a bad back that's going to keep him out of football permanently. Not the case with Lee. His development surely took a big hit with most of 2 years off the field, but I'm keeping him in mind as a potential nickel or dime back until we get into spring training and preseason, when we'll know more about his progress.

umphrey
04-24-2010, 04:43 PM
154. Andrew Quarless, TE, Penn State
Andrew Quarless is a first-round talent, but had tons of off-the-field issues. He also doesn't seem interested in playing football. Maybe he'll turn his life around, but I doubt it. (Pick Grade: C)

I really disagree with this evaluation. He screwed up as a teenager at 17-18 years old. From what I've been reading on him, after that he realized his football career was in jeopardy and started to behave. Not interested in football: Doesn't seem like it. He went to alcohol rehab and quit drinking completely because "he couldn't imagine life without the sport he loved" -his words, talk isn't worth much, but his actions are.

To me, it looks like he was your average teenager, then got into trouble and for the first time in his life was forced to think about how his actions affected his future, and started acting like an adult.

I'm not trying to say the pick comes with no risk, rather that he sounds like a player who is maturing not one with social/psychological problems.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 05:01 PM
I really disagree with this evaluation. He screwed up as a teenager at 17-18 years old. From what I've been reading on him, after that he realized his football career was in jeopardy and started to behave. Not interested in football: Doesn't seem like it. He went to alcohol rehab and quit drinking completely because "he couldn't imagine life without the sport he loved" -his words, talk isn't worth much, but his actions are.

To me, it looks like he was your average teenager, then got into trouble and for the first time in his life was forced to think about how his actions affected his future, and started acting like an adult.

I'm not trying to say the pick comes with no risk, rather that he sounds like a player who is maturing not one with social/psychological problems.

In his radio interview just a bit ago with some Green Bay press, Quarless said he hasn't had a drink since the night of his DUI over 2 years ago. He went to college at age 17, so I chalk that up to being "young and stupid."

He also said immediately after it happened he went straight to Joe Paterno's house, sat down with him, and rededicated his life to the game of football. He said the thought of not being able to play the game he loves was something he could never imagine.

If he comes to Green Bay entitled and starts F'n up like he did at age 17-18-19, then we can talk about it. Give him a chance I say, because we all know what it's like to be tempted and screw up at times. Going straight to Jo-Pa, to me, shows true remorse and willingness to change for the better.

umphrey
04-24-2010, 05:03 PM
Sounds like Neal was a guy Trogvac and Capers fell in love with and probably lobbied TT to get him. Experienced with very high potential. I'm hoping he improves our pass rush since we didn't get a OLB. Jolly is a terrible pass rusher so subbing Neal in might just be what our pass rush needs.

TitleTown088
04-24-2010, 05:04 PM
I think we need to cheer up about our overall draft.



I think you're the one who is disappointed. I'm not down on this draft at all.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 05:08 PM
Quarless is a decent pick. I'm fine with it.
James Starks is a decent pick too. Had he not gotten hurt last year, he might gave been a 3rd round pick. Nice value there.

What I am pissed off the most about his the mismanagement of taking Neal in round 2 instead of Burnett there. Neal would 99% have been there in round 3 still, and then we could have taken AOA in round 4 at CB, where Dallas took him with the pick after the one we traded away in round 4 to trade up for Burnett.

Dallas walked into him, and Dez Bryant, thanks to us IMO and I really hope we don't regret that down the road. Plus AOA is a stud of a return specialist.

If we passed on Bulaga and he turned out to be the next Joe Thomas, I would be more upset with passing that up than Dez Bryant.

As we've seen, it only takes 1 team to want a player for him to be drafted ahead of projections. Maybe Green Bay didn't want to take that chance with Neal.

Too long have I ripped TT for draft picks, then been completely wrong with my opinions. I question the pick big time, but let's give the guy a chance before we declare being Justin Harrel pick "pissed-off."

cvv84
04-24-2010, 05:11 PM
I think you're the one who is disappointed. I'm not down on this draft at all.

Same here. It wasn't flashy but we got help in the trenches and thats where it all begins. I really like the Bulaga, Burnett, and Starks picks while I think Neal is going to be a solid addition too. Wilson and Newhouse provides depth/competition and Quarless could give us another receiving threat from the TE position. We've added alot of competition along our roster and its time for some guys to ship up or ship out.

Also from JS:

Here are the players that reportedly have agreed to free-agent contracts with the Packers, or will be trying out:

•RB Quinn Porter, Stillman College (via NFLdraftbible.com)
•LB Alex Joseph, Temple (via Connecticut News)
•QB Noah Shepard, South Dakota (via Argus Leader)
•OLB Frank Zombo, Central Michigan, (via Central Michigan Life)

TitleTown088
04-24-2010, 05:22 PM
double by accident.

TitleTown088
04-24-2010, 05:23 PM
Neal would 99% have been there in round 3


How in the heck do you know that? The guy's measurables are near elite for his position and I'm sure other teams were high on him as well.

roughrider30
04-24-2010, 05:25 PM
Quarless is a decent pick. I'm fine with it.
James Starks is a decent pick too. Had he not gotten hurt last year, he might gave been a 3rd round pick. Nice value there.

What I am pissed off the most about his the mismanagement of taking Neal in round 2 instead of Burnett there. Neal would 99% have been there in round 3 still, and then we could have taken AOA in round 4 at CB, where Dallas took him with the pick after the one we traded away in round 4 to trade up for Burnett.

Dallas walked into him, and Dez Bryant, thanks to us IMO and I really hope we don't regret that down the road. Plus AOA is a stud of a return specialist.

Not sure how you would have any idea about this. We all know TT likes to make sure he gets the guys HE wants. Obviously he had Neal higher on his board than Burnett and he must have had some reason to believe he wouldn't be there in round 3.

Not saying it wasn't a reach, but we really don't have any clue what goes behind the scenes and where other teams rank players

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 05:26 PM
Also from JS:

Here are the players that reportedly have agreed to free-agent contracts with the Packers, or will be trying out:

RB Quinn Porter, Stillman College (via NFLdraftbible.com)
LB Alex Joseph, Temple (via Connecticut News)
QB Noah Shepard, South Dakota (via Argus Leader)
OLB Frank Zombo, Central Michigan, (via Central Michigan Life)

Add Shawn Gore to that list, the WR from Bishop's University Gaiters in Canada. Apparently he hasn't signed, but will be invited to workout at the Packers rookie orientation camp.

http://twitter.com/Gore2
http://twitter.com/jasonjwilde

BloodBrother
04-24-2010, 05:33 PM
While they didn't address LOLB/CB, they did adress S and especially OT/OL in general

They must really like the potential of Brad Jones and Obi...or maybe they bring somebody else in. Seems they wanted to add more quality depth to the Dline so they can rotate guys and keep everybody fresh all game, and have the guys up front create the push and take up blockers so that no matter who they have lined up at OLB, they'll be able to get to the QB.

Apparently the Packers Dline tended to wear down in the 4th quarter of games, and thats why they wanted to add more depth there. Gives them a bit of an advantage late in the game when the opposing teams OL is probably a bit gassed. With all the bodies up front, each guy should get enough reps so that they aren't worn out themselves

cvv84
04-24-2010, 05:33 PM
How in the heck do you know that? The guy's measurables are near elite for his position and I'm sure other teams were high on him as well.

Thats like when we drafted Nick Collins and alot of fans were calling him a reach. Only to find out the next day that Baltimore called to congradulate us on taking him because they were going to take him a few picks later.

roughrider30
04-24-2010, 05:34 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here's some quotes from TT on the draft:

# On Andrew Quarless: "Darren Perry is a Penn State guy so he has some contacts there...We feel good about it that he's made progress."
# Looked at cornerback but the board just didn't match up.
# Quarless was "by far our highest rated guy on the board."
# On pass rush LB: "We have Brad Jones and Brady Poppinga. Brad did pretty good and we're going to work at it. We didn't draft there but we're going to work on some things."
# On CJ Wilson dropping: "I have no idea. We liked him a lot. We felt like we knew him very well. We had him higher on our board."
# Every time there were guys that we liked, guys that we maybe had rated higher.
# On Starks: "Coach Turner speaks very highly of him. We feel like he's a good fit. One-cut no nonsense runner."

Even though it sucks CB wasn't addressed I'm glad they didn't waste a pick on someone that wouldn't make an impact there anyways.

umphrey
04-24-2010, 05:38 PM
Another random thought: Something to like about this draft is it's going to help us beat Minnesota. We have more than enough DL depth to handle their OL with Peterson and Gerhart, and even though I don't know who will be starting our tackles and guards should be more prepared against Allen and the Williams' even if we have an injury again.

TitleTown088
04-24-2010, 05:53 PM
Another random thought: Something to like about this draft is it's going to help us beat Minnesota. We have more than enough DL depth to handle their OL with Peterson and Gerhart
Add Blout to that list.

TitleTown088
04-24-2010, 06:02 PM
Packers UFAs so far:

CMU DE Frank Zombo (will play OLB)
Temple ILB - Alex Joseph
Stillman RB - RB Quinn Porter
USD QB Noah Shepard
Bishop's University Gaiters - WR - Shawn Gore (tryout)
Wake Forest DE John Russell
UM CB Sam shields ( burner, ran a 4.3 at miami pro day.
UTEP OT, Mike Aguayo,
SFA OLB Tim Knicky
Utep WR Jeff Moturi

jackalope
04-24-2010, 06:03 PM
How so? Maybe if he drops 30 lbs. If Aaron Kampman couldn't make the transition at his size, I doubt Wilson will be able to at 284 pounds.

The stuff I was reading on him right after we took seemed to be talking about how he would project to linebacker, but that doesn't look like the case.

I'm definitely happy with our draft. Bulaga in the first was about as good as it gets, and I love the Burnett pick. I'm disappointed we didn't take a cornerback at any point in the draft, but I still feel like we made a lot of very good picks.

princefielder28
04-24-2010, 06:06 PM
I left before the Starks and Wilson picks so I wanna comment on them. I love the Starks selection and I think he could've been a second round pick if it had not been for that injury this year. Wilson's best fit is a 4-3 end so I don't understand where they plan to play him. I'd have to think end b/c he's too big to play backer.

Favre4ever
04-24-2010, 07:26 PM
I absolutely love the Quarless pick. This offense will be unstoppable with Quarless and Finley on the field at the same time, should also help Jennings getting more looks and upgrade our Red Zone offense.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 08:52 PM
I absolutely love the Quarless pick. This offense will be unstoppable with Quarless and Finley on the field at the same time, should also help Jennings getting more looks and upgrade our Red Zone offense.

So is this the beginning of the end for stone-hands Donald Lee? And what about Spencer Havner? All he did last season was score TD's.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 09:01 PM
Add Blout to that list.

Do you mean LeGarrette Blount? He signed with the 49ers.

jackalope
04-24-2010, 09:02 PM
So is this the beginning of the end for stone-hands Donald Lee? And what about Spencer Havner? All he did last season was score TD's.

I think this definitely means the end to Havner with the offseason he had.

J-Mike88
04-24-2010, 09:39 PM
It sure would have been nice to have not traded away our #122 pick.
Could have easily taken Burnett in Rd 2, Neal in Rd 3, and Schofield in round 4. Neal isn't that great that it would have been risking that much by not taking him at #56. I'm not even a Badger fan.

Don Banks:
• Living in Madison, Wis., these days, I got to three University of Wisconsin home games last fall, and the one player who consistently jumped out at me for the Badgers was senior defensive end O'Brien Schofield, who seemed to be playing in the opposing backfield for most of the afternoon (Bryan Bulaga agrees).

Schofield went to the Arizona Cardinals on Saturday in the fourth round, 130th overall. That's a steal, but everyone knows why. Schofield, who will be an outside linebacker in the NFL, blew out his knee on the first day of workouts at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, when he got tied up with Massachusetts offensive tackle Vladmir Ducasse (who went to the Jets in the second round).

Schofield was thought to be a potential first-round pick before the late knee injury, and he might even need a redshirt season of sorts this year as a rookie before he's ready to fully contribute in Arizona. But once he's healthy, the Cardinals have themselves an impact player. Count on it. Or my name's not Mel Kiper.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/04/24/draft.day.3.snaps/1.html#ixzz0m4jijdIE

Favre4ever
04-24-2010, 09:45 PM
I was also mad that we didnt draft any OLB but i think we might have a misconception of our pass-rush problems. Heres my take:

The games we got killed by Rothlisberger, Favre and Warner, there was one thing that kept coming up. The DL werent even close to collapsing the pocket which is key if you want your OLB or other pressure to get to the QB. Theres a reason why teams do not use high picks to draft OLB, they are simply not the key to create pressure on the QB on the 3-4 defense. It all starts inside with the big guys, if they cant force the QB to move in the pocket or at least collapsing the pocket on him, its easy for the tackle and the QB to make the OLB irrelevant. Remember how Warner (a small QB) had NOBODY in his face all game long? We clearly needed a better job from our interior guys.

I think this was Capers and TT's plan for this draft to go after what made this defense look horrible at times and when it mattered the most. That alone will make Jones and Matthews look better and will help our pass defense even more. The more I think, the more I love this draft.

umphrey
04-24-2010, 09:49 PM
Sorry, just not buying Schofield as a top talent as an OLB.

Also, stop saying we could have gotten Neal in round 3. You don't know that, I don't know that, the analysts don't know that, no single person on this earth knows that.

I hated the pick at first, starting to come around to it though. Wondering why he wasn't considered higher, like 3rd round. Jolly playing DE might have been crippling our pass rush from the left side because he's such a poor pass rusher. Using Jenkins-Pickett-Jolly could shut down the run and Jenkins-Raji-Neal could cause some havoc in the backfield.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 10:08 PM
It sure would have been nice to have not traded away our #122 pick.
Could have easily taken Burnett in Rd 2, Neal in Rd 3, and Schofield in round 4. Neal isn't that great that it would have been risking that much by not taking him at #56. I'm not even a Badger fan.

That's the 2nd time you've said that. Where are you getting this information that they could have waited to take Neal in the 3rd round?

Just because one or two sites had him as a mid-rounder, doesn't mean TT and his entire team of scouts didn't have inside knowledge that he would be off the board in the next several picks.

Whistler6
04-24-2010, 10:11 PM
We've seen in the past being thin in the D-line can be death to the entire scheme and gameplan. The 3-4 relies heavily on the DE's and DT's, and if they got better this weekend by taking Neal in round 2, then I am perfectly happy with it.

Of course I wanted some big speedy OLB to rush the QB opposite Clay Mathews, but we've all been defending Brad Jones for the past however many weeks. So let's have faith huh?

mittelstaedt2007
04-24-2010, 10:33 PM
I know highlight videos are just that, the highlights, but god damn does Tim Nicky (the UDFA from SFA) look like an athletic pass rusher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKSAUtKTsK8

johbur
04-24-2010, 10:42 PM
Quick thoughts:
Round 1: Bryan Bulaga OL - Likely the #3 OT, which means he'll see the field if recent seasons are the guide. Great value.
Round 2: Mike Neal DT - Not a big fan of this pick right now, but maybe after seeing more tape he'll grow on me. One benefit is that maybe he'll finally get the dead weight of Harrell bumped off the team...

Round 3: Morgan Burnett SS - Very nice pick. I hope he shows in the pros what he did in college with his ball skills. Woodson, Collins and Burnett snagging balls could turn the defense into something special if QB pressure materializes.

Round 5: Andrew Quarless TE - Not a big fan of guys with off-field issues and questionable work ethics except during their "contract year." Darren Perry in touch with PSU staff and the coaches not worried, so not too bad given Havner's crash.

Round 5: Marshall Newhouse OT - This is an indictment on the previous O-Line picks who obviously TT does not have the same faith in as he has in his returning injured CBs...

Round 6: James Starks RB - Nice pick. Good to see roster pressure on the position. Again, previous picks of Wynn and Jackson not reliable for the year, so he could very well make the club.

Round 7: C.J. Wilson DE - A little bit smaller and faster than Mike Neal, so a pretty good pick as far as value in R7. Nowhere near the speed that Brad Jones has, but both Neal and Wilson are 290+ and under 4.9 in the 40, so if Dom wants to flex to a 4-3 at times with Pickett and Raji both in the middle, they'd be able to so, particularly on run downs.

At this point, looks like one player to challenge for a starting spot, Burnett. Depending on what happens by training camp, Bulaga, Newhouse, Neal and Wilson could be in the mix. Last year Matthews, Raji, Lang, and Johnson were seen, at least by me, as being able to compete for a starting spot. Toss in Jones and Underwood and even Meredith and I thought last year was a far stronger draft.

PossibleCabbage
04-24-2010, 11:00 PM
It's worth noting that the bust rate for 3-4 OLBs is enormous, and the guys who do work out at it are more often guys who don't command elite draft picks (Joey Porter) or are even undrafted (James Harrison) but develop into fine players in 2-3 years than they are highly touted pass rushers (Vernon Gholston).

It's more likely that Obiozor or Jones will really step up their game after another year in the system and a full NFL offseason, than it is a late round pick is going to come in right away at OLB and tear it up. Honestly, I give relatively even odds for one of the UDFA pass rushers we picked up (Frank Zombo or Tim Knicky) to blossom into just as good an OLB prospect as any of the conversion projects you could have undertaken late.

Reliably the guys I thought could help quickly (Jason Worilds, Eric Norwood, Daniel Te'o-Nesheim) went just before we had a chance to get them or at a point in the draft where I wouldn't feel comfortable taking them. It's just one of those things that happens.

At least the Jets have been actively shopping veteran OLB Bryan Thomas over the last few weeks. He's far from elite, but he can contribute right away (more than anybody in this draft short of Graham, Hughes, or Worilds). Wouldn't be surprised if Thompson is going to land him after the UDFA dust settles and both front offices are less busy. Shouldn't cost more than a future 5 or 6.

GB12
04-24-2010, 11:02 PM
I'll take a big pass on Thomas. I'd much rather start Brad Jones.

johbur
04-24-2010, 11:03 PM
I'll take a big pass on Thomas. I'd much rather start Brad Jones.

I dig Brad Jones, and GB even brought in the Mighty Tim Knicky! Awesome! ;D

PossibleCabbage
04-24-2010, 11:14 PM
I'll take a big pass on Thomas. I'd much rather start Brad Jones.

They're pretty much going to keep 9 linebackers, so probably 5 OLBs. Sure, you can find 2 OLBs on Green Bay's roster that Thomas isn't better than (Jones and Matthews), but can you find 5?

jackalope
04-24-2010, 11:18 PM
I'm probably as big a Brad Jones fan as anyone on here, so I wasn't upset about not taking an OLB, but may I ask where all the Obiozer love is coming from?

PossibleCabbage
04-24-2010, 11:22 PM
I'm probably as big a Brad Jones fan as anyone on here, so I wasn't upset about not taking an OLB, but may I ask where all the Obiozer love is coming from?

Kevin Greene apparently loves him, and he knows a hell of a lot more about what it takes to be a 3-4 OLB than I do. Ever since he showed up in camp, Greene has been riding Obiozor really, really hard because he thought that Obi had the tools. Apparently it's been paying off, but we'll see.

GB12
04-24-2010, 11:34 PM
Numbers:

Bryan Bulaga - 75
Mike Neal - 96
Morgan Burnett - 42
Andrew Quarless - 81
Marshall Newhouse - 74
James Starks - 44
CJ Wilson - 98

jackalope
04-24-2010, 11:35 PM
But I don't remember anything specific about the way it worked itself down. Is that when we picked the tight end, Quarless? No, he was by far our highest rated player on the board.

Sounds like Quarless might have been the pick had we stuck in the fourth, although obviously hard to tell. From what I've heard about Quarless' off-field issues, I'm not too worried about it. High-potential pick. I like it.

jackalope
04-24-2010, 11:39 PM
Is Deshawn Wynn still on the roster?

GB12
04-24-2010, 11:44 PM
Is Deshawn Wynn still on the roster?

He was never offered a contract this year.

That could be kind of cool to have 36 and 42 as our safeties again.

J-Mike88
04-24-2010, 11:56 PM
I
The games we got killed by Rothlisberger, Favre and Warner, there was one thing that kept coming up. The DL werent even close to collapsing the pocket which is key if you want your OLB or other pressure to get to the QB. Theres a reason why teams do not use high picks to draft OLB, they are simply not the key to create pressure on the QB on the 3-4 defense. It all starts inside with the big guys, if they cant force the QB to move in the pocket or at least collapsing the pocket on him, its easy for the tackle and the QB to make the OLB irrelevant. Remember how Warner (a small QB) had NOBODY in his face all game long? We clearly needed a better job from our interior guys.
Some true and falses there.
Cullen Jenkins was getting to Roethlisberger a lot of times.
He sacked him on that last drive, and don't you remember the 2nd to last play? Jenkins had another shot at Ben which would have sealed the win, but he missed.
De's do not get many sacks in this scheme. Most people can't name the Steelers and Ravens DE's, but everyone can visualize Harrison and Suggs hammering QBs.

And you might not remember these guys, but Derrick Thomas, Ricky Jackson, and Lawrence Taylor might argue with your premise that 3-4 OLB's aren't worth selecting high and didn't create the sacks with their speed and talent. Those guys were phenomenal. And we passed on one of them for a blocker because games are won in the trenches. :(

I do like Brad Jones and pray that the guy bulks up and is able to bull rush sometimes. That would free up the outside rush and we all know how fast he is.

BTW, I'd take Adalius Thomas if he's motivated to show Belichick that he F'd up. Remember, he'd get a crack at him in Foxboro if he joined the Packers.

cvv84
04-25-2010, 12:01 AM
It's worth noting that the bust rate for 3-4 OLBs is enormous, and the guys who do work out at it are more often guys who don't command elite draft picks (Joey Porter) or are even undrafted (James Harrison) but develop into fine players in 2-3 years than they are highly touted pass rushers (Vernon Gholston).

That really varies IMO. When you're taking collegiate 4-3 DEs and putting them at LB in the NFL there's more of a risk. Whereas last year when we drafted Matthews and Jones, both players played in a simular scheme so the transition was much smoother.

Porter was also drafted in a time where the 3-4 was only used by a few teams and didn't command the higher picks that they do today. Not too mention Porter only had 2 years experience at LB before being taken in the 3rd round.

As for Harrison, he took several years on 2 different teams to develop.

At least the Jets have been actively shopping veteran OLB Bryan Thomas over the last few weeks. He's far from elite, but he can contribute right away (more than anybody in this draft short of Graham, Hughes, or Worilds). Wouldn't be surprised if Thompson is going to land him after the UDFA dust settles and both front offices are less busy. Shouldn't cost more than a future 5 or 6.

Thompson isn't going to trade for someone who's going to get cut. Plus its not "his guy" either so chances are they're going to roll the dice starting Jones - which isn't a bad option. Worst case we'll use Chillar or Poppinga more.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 12:09 AM
I know highlight videos are just that, the highlights, but god damn does Tim Nicky (the UDFA from SFA) look like an athletic pass rusher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKSAUtKTsK8

Umm...he's being blocked by a kid who looks about 5-11 205 pounds on the first & 3rd, 4th plays.... then nobody blocked him on the 2nd play......

This is not quite as impressive as a year ago when we were seeing the Brad Jones highlights. You guys remember seeing those for the first time?

Hopefully Knicky makes it... he almost looked like Jared Allen a few times in the video, again though, the level of competition there blocking is the question. You guys think Allen could have made it big as a standup 3-4 OLB?

PossibleCabbage
04-25-2010, 12:28 AM
Thompson isn't going to trade for someone who's going to get cut. Plus its not "his guy" either so chances are they're going to roll the dice starting Jones - which isn't a bad option. Worst case we'll use Chillar or Poppinga more.

Wasn't Ryan Grant about to be cut by the Giants when Thompson traded for him?

I'm not really concerned about who's starting at OLB, since Jones is a perfectly serviceable starter on the left side (particularly with a year in an NFL offseason program), I'd just like to get a nice rotation going.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Just because one or two sites had him as a mid-rounder, doesn't mean TT and his entire team of scouts didn't have inside knowledge that he would be off the board in the next several picks.
If TT has some moles in other organizations, then I think he would have traded the #23 pick to either the Cowboys #27 or the Ravens #25, because as it turns out, both of those teams really really wanted Dez Bryant. I think TT could have raped the Cowboys and Jerry Jones there, just for moving down 4 spots. Probably could have gotten Baltimore to trade up from 25 and gotten their 3rd round pick for it.

Also, let's be honest here. Did you hear, see, or read anything from anyone before the draft that indicated that Mike Neal was a 2nd round prospect? Be honest here. Last year the Raiders took a guy named Mike Mitchell about 4 rounds before anyone else probably would have. It happens.

Who knows what spooks some GMs into reaching so high. Nobody here expected James Jones in the 3rd round a few years ago I know that.

Here's what Kiper says in our team grade, which is about 20th ranked of the 32 teams (ahead of the grape apes though!)

Green Bay Packers
Summary: Green Bay stuck to a good plan in the first round and got an ideal fit in Bryan Bulaga. In the second .... I think they may have reached... with Mike Neal

Anyway, if Mike Neal sacks Favre just once, to me it's worth it.

Capers has to get bodies crashing & smashing into that f****** graybearded, schitzophrenic, perennial, patented, playoff-choking c*****cker.
If Mike Neal bruises Favre's ribs, I'm buying a big Mike Neal jersey.

Boston
04-25-2010, 12:43 AM
I'm not completely stoked on this draft, but the fact that some people are so down on it is completely ridiculous, depth in the trenches is never a bad thing.

TitleTown088
04-25-2010, 01:35 AM
Do you mean LeGarrette Blount? He signed with the 49ers.

Yeah, my bad. Someone falsely reported he signed with the queens.

Favre4ever
04-25-2010, 07:35 AM
Some true and falses there.
Cullen Jenkins was getting to Roethlisberger a lot of times.
He sacked him on that last drive, and don't you remember the 2nd to last play? Jenkins had another shot at Ben which would have sealed the win, but he missed.
De's do not get many sacks in this scheme. Most people can't name the Steelers and Ravens DE's, but everyone can visualize Harrison and Suggs hammering QBs.

And you might not remember these guys, but Derrick Thomas, Ricky Jackson, and Lawrence Taylor might argue with your premise that 3-4 OLB's aren't worth selecting high and didn't create the sacks with their speed and talent. Those guys were phenomenal. And we passed on one of them for a blocker because games are won in the trenches. :(



To me, it was all about pressure in the middle. You want to stop Favre, Manning, Brady, Rivers and Warner (and maybe not Rodgers ahaha)? you have to get in their face. We just didnt do enough of that. If you cant get any pressure in the middle, all the opposition has to do is to double team your star OLB. We cannot expect the OLB pressure to get home on every snap but if you control the line of scrimmage then your in business. I still think we overrate a bit the OLB thing here.

Man all i can think about is when we'll have Quarless and Finley on the field at the same time. Driver and Jennings will love this.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 08:02 AM
Very interesting variety of opinions from the scouts on some of these guys.
Here's Morgan Burnett:

What NFL personnel people told Bobby McGinn before the draft about Georgia Tech safety Morgan Burnett:

AFC scout: "I gave him a fourth-round grade. I thought he played much better last year than this year. He was really instinctive. I didn't think he tackled that well. He surprised me with his speed at the workout. I was disappointed in the way he played this year."

Phil Savage, Philadelphia: "He gets a little out of sorts at times. He's got some interception production. He is willing to throw his body in there. As a junior, you figure there has to be some upside with him. He looked like a guy you could really coach up to become a pretty solid player."

AFC scout: "He plays so lazy at times. He just lets crossers by thinking he can catch up with his speed, and he doesn't. His speed is OK. It's not great. He's a big, good-looking kid you expected to be better. He's late on a lot of things. He looks confused at times back there. I think there's a lot of red flags on the guy. Second round." -his review is the worst yet he has him going the highest.....WTF

AFC scout: "Really active on the back end. He tested like a bandit. He's gotten his hands on the ball. He's got a hell of a record in terms of picks. Some things you just don't trust. He plays hard. He's a little stiff for a guy who tested out as well as he did."

NFC scout: "He's a run-stop specialist :confused: unpolished in the passing game. He's best suited for strong safety. He's not one of those big off-the-deep-hash type guys. He will take poor angles. He plays out of control. Stares the backfield down and bites on route fakes. He looks the part. I'm not jumping up and down about him. He'd have to play in the box, not off the hashes. He's bottom of the fourth, top of the fifth."

NFC scout: "Smart kid. I'd like him to be a little more physical. Seen him miss some tackles. I'm not going to say he's not tough. Got good athletic skills and range. Second round."

AFC scout: "I'm not crazy about him. He'll go before the mid-rounds, but I don't like him. He's got some numbers that you like. Maybe third round. Maybe."

NFC scout: "I think he can run. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go late second."

cvv84
04-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Wasn't Ryan Grant about to be cut by the Giants when Thompson traded for him?

I'm not really concerned about who's starting at OLB, since Jones is a perfectly serviceable starter on the left side (particularly with a year in an NFL offseason program), I'd just like to get a nice rotation going.

Grant also wasn't a former 1st round pick making $3.2 million this season. Quite a bit of money for a backup, wouldn't you agree?

Whistler6
04-25-2010, 01:15 PM
Also, let's be honest here. Did you hear, see, or read anything from anyone before the draft that indicated that Mike Neal was a 2nd round prospect? Be honest here. Last year the Raiders took a guy named Mike Mitchell about 4 rounds before anyone else probably would have. It happens.

Too many times have I hopped on the TT hate-train and ripped past draft picks. I was skeptical about Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson, and even Nick Collins. Passing up on Chad Jackson, but then taking Nelson baffled me. Not sure I could have been any more wrong...

Instead of thinking I know best, this time I am going to trust in the draft picks Thompson and co. made and just wait and see. It's pretty clear scouts and websites with their mock drafts and such have not only been wrong, but completely "off" on their analysis in the past.

Lke I said already, I'm not overly excited about this draft. There's really nothing sexy about it. But I hold that D-line and O-line depth is crucial, so I am going to bury my pessimisn and look forward to seeing what the new guys bring. Don't you dare compare TT drafting Mike Neal to the corpse of Al Davis reaching for Mike "WHO" Mitchell! :rolleyes:

GB12
04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
Too many times have I hopped on the TT hate-train and ripped past draft picks. I was skeptical about Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson, and even Nick Collins. Passing up on Chad Jackson, but then taking Nelson baffled me. Not sure I could have been any more wrong...

We passed on Jackson to later select Jennings, Nelson was a different draft.

PossibleCabbage
04-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Grant also wasn't a former 1st round pick making $3.2 million this season. Quite a bit of money for a backup, wouldn't you agree?

Brandon Chillar has so far made $3,550,000 and $2,350,000 as a backup. Brady Poppinga has recently made $2,850,000 and $4,003,960 as a backup. Thompson isn't afraid to give mid-range contracts to backup linebackers.

cvv84
04-25-2010, 01:49 PM
Brandon Chillar has so far made $3,550,000 and $2,350,000 as a backup. Brady Poppinga has recently made $2,850,000 and $4,003,960 as a backup. Thompson isn't afraid to give mid-range contracts to backup linebackers.

Chillar has been a key guy in our nickle packages and covering TEs over the past 2 years, he's been hardly a backup. Poppinga was given an extention prior to changing defenses and was starting up until week 5. He's also been rumored to be on the hot seat for awhile now but he's a descent special teamer.

TT isn't going to trade for Thomas, period.

umphrey
04-25-2010, 02:17 PM
What they were aiming for with Neal, IMO, was to have a DE on that side that can penetrate and get to the QB, which is Jolly's biggest weakness. The consequences of that are:

-Brad Jones doesn't rush as much, instead he plays contain against the run and drops into coverage
-Clay Matthews rushes more
-We don't take another top pick rush OLB, which would force Clay into more coverage and run contain (because rushing both OLBs leaves the defense very vulnerable, who covers the check down back?)
-We get more pass rush from our 3 down lineman
-We can mix up our blitzes more, instead of the offense keying on 2 edge rushers
-More DL to rotate allows us to show different fronts and keep guys fresh at the end of games
-------------Negatives
-Neal probably isn't as good a run defender as Jolly
-Neal probably won't bat down passes like Jolly has
-Who gets cut? Assuming Neal plays, we have 5 starters and 2 projects on a 3 man line
-Does this mean we are letting Jolly go?
-What does this mean for Raji's playing time?

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 02:39 PM
People gotta remember last year when fans were constantly blaming Capers for Barnett & Hawk not getting sacks blitzing up the middle in the double A-gap blitzes.
These guys, the ILBers, need to do a better job of disguising and timing their predictable blitzes, and they have to beat their one-on-one blocker more often. Desmond Bishop might need a chance.

Hopefully Neal shows the ability he's being touted and he gets some sacks on good QB's. Mike Neal.
Or can CJ Wilson or Jarius Wynn provide some of that? Someone has to get more pass rush or it will be as bad as last year versus Farve. And I can't take that again.

PossibleCabbage
04-25-2010, 02:50 PM
-Who gets cut? Assuming Neal plays, we have 5 starters and 2 projects on a 3 man line


The Packers will keep 6 defensive linemen on the roster, 5 will be active on game day.

The ideal rotation for a 3-4 defensive consists of:
-Starting NT (Pickett)
-Starting DEs (Jolly, Jenkins)
-Rotation DE (Neal)
-Swing DL who can backup NT and play DE (Raji)

In terms of the sub-packages, likely Raji and Neal will play the 3-tech spot in the nickel, while Jenkins will be the lone DL in the psycho package.

I would guess that there is one roster spot remaining for one of: Harrell, Jarius Wynn, C.J. Wilson, and Ronald Talley.

Hopefully Neal shows the ability he's being touted and he gets some sacks on good QB's. Mike Neal.
Or can CJ Wilson or Jarius Wynn provide some of that? Someone has to get more pass rush or it will be as bad as last year versus Farve. And I can't take that again.

Wynn is an interesting prospect, because in watching him in preseason last year he had both a pass rush move and a natural counter. The problem with him though, is that he tended to get pushed around against NFL calibre OL, since he didn't really have the functional strength to play 5-tech. It's possible that the offseason program will help him a lot in that respect. Neal is kind of the opposite player, in that he has power in spades, but he doesn't really have a counter. If nothing else, better DL rotation will aid the pass rush by collapsing the pocket. Considering that our rotation DE last year was Mike Montgomery (who has made a career of being spectacularly useless), it's no surprised that Jenkins, Jolly, and Raji were often gassed later in games.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 03:05 PM
Here's Mike Vandermause. Some people have accused him of being a Packer-lover, a Packer-basher, a Favre-lover, a Favre-basher, etc. In other words, he pretty much tells it like it is, and someone is bound to be offended and hate Mike.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100424/PKR07/100424048/1058/PKR01/Mike-Vandermause-column-Packers-fail-to-address-key-weaknesses

♦ Green Bay Packers General Manager Ted Thompson did little in the NFL draft to immediately improve a defense that was torched in the air by the Arizona Cardinals in the playoffs.

♦ The same team that was torched in a 51-45 playoff loss to Arizona didn’t draft a single cornerback or pass-rushing outside linebacker to bolster its defense. Packers coach Mike McCarthy said the team would improve from within. Thompson seems confident his injured cornerbacks will return to full strength, and he’s not sweating the void at left outside linebacker caused by Aaron Kampman’s departure.

“I understand everybody’s concerned about that position,” Thompson said. “We don’t think it's quite as dire as everybody else does.”

That might be music to the ears of Brett Favre, Tom Brady and Tony Romo, three top-flight quarterback who are expected to face the Packers this season.

♦ The Packers haven’t returned a kickoff for a touchdown in a decade, and no end to that drought is in sight. Thompson didn’t draft a dynamic return man, meaning McCarthy will once again have to find someone by default to return kickoffs. No wonder the Packers have posed no home-run return threat for so long.

♦ Thompson admitted last week that finding a capable punter has been a vexing problem in recent years. Yet for the sixth straight year he elected not to draft a punter. McCarthy called the Packers’ punting the past two years “unacceptable.” Perhaps the same can be said for the team’s commitment to finding a quality punter.

ON THE FLIPSIDE, I like this comment from a fan to Bedard on the Insider Chat last night. He basically says that because fans are fans and the GM is the GM, that the GM couldn't possibly have made a mistake or two and the fans opinion means nothing, even though that's his opinion as a fan:

Q: Chris , Montana - Why are some people on here so stupid! They are upset because TT did not get an OLB. Sure It would have been nice but you cannot adress every need in a draft. The Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Eagles, Giants, etc in other words the contending teams take the best player available, they do not reach for need. My question is why is no one talking about how Mike Neal can contribute to pass rush. Remember when Brad Jones got a couple sacks against Pittsburgh. He got them cause Jenkins was able to collapse the pocket. HUH? I wonder what they brough Mike Neal in to do? You think Thompson doesnt want to improve pass rush? I think be did. He just does not want to reach for a OLB then have to turn around next year and draft another one because he reached and the guy busted. Some of you guys need to get real and understand you do not know what the hell you are talking about!!

Whistler6
04-25-2010, 04:05 PM
We passed on Jackson to later select Jennings, Nelson was a different draft.

Ugh, that's what I meant. Nice catch.

TitleTown088
04-25-2010, 04:33 PM
The Packers will keep 6 defensive linemen on the roster, 5 will be active on game day.

What? How do you figure? I could see the Packers keeping more than 6 D lineman easily. In fact, I'd almost guarantee it.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 06:44 PM
Right, TT fleeced Belichuck with Chad Jackson and then got us some Greg Jennings. But 2 years later he reached on Ed McCaffrey and passed on DeSean Jackson. Still, Jordyzzzzz is decent, and even though he looks like a gazelle returning kicks, he's a good kid and will never cause any problems and he's not gonna ***** if he's only a #3 or #4 target.

cvv84
04-25-2010, 07:43 PM
Right, TT fleeced Belichuck with Chad Jackson and then got us some Greg Jennings. But 2 years later he reached on Ed McCaffrey and passed on DeSean Jackson. Still, Jordyzzzzz is decent, and even though he looks like a gazelle returning kicks, he's a good kid and will never cause any problems and he's not gonna ***** if he's only a #3 or #4 target.

I wouldn't go there just yet. Nelson hasn't really had the chance to get into the lineup on a regular basis seeing he's behind Jennings, Driver, Jones, and now Finley in the progression.

We really won't know what we have in Nelson, and even Jones, until Driver is gone. I think you're giving up on guys too soon, just like Neal, before they get a chance to showcase themselves.

Bibby10
04-25-2010, 07:58 PM
I thought the Packers draft sucked! We did nothing to improve the part of our team that was hurt the most and that was the pass rush and the secondary. We did get a safety, but where was our corner we needed? Rumor is Harris is going to be on the PUP list for the 1st 6 games, and we have no depth behind him. Tramon will do what he does, but whats after him? Pat Lee cant seem to stay healthy, and Will Blackmon is injury prone like no other. Just could have gotten all better value in the draft. Needed more impact players instead of depth right away. we are on the verge of a super bowl and all you get for our team is depth??? You gotta be kidding me!!!!

cuzifelt1ikeit
04-25-2010, 08:56 PM
you guys are all jumping the gun. i feel like we all did this the year jennings was drafted too. everyone was mad we passed on jackson and everyone hated the draft. you might not like the picks that thompson makes but you have to have faith in the guy.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 09:20 PM
I thought the Packers draft sucked! We did nothing to improve the part of our team that was hurt the most and that was the pass rush and the secondary. We did get a safety, but where was our corner we needed? Rumor is Harris is going to be on the PUP list for the 1st 6 games, and we have no depth behind him. Tramon will do what he does, but whats after him? Pat Lee cant seem to stay healthy, and Will Blackmon is injury prone like no other. Just could have gotten all better value in the draft. Needed more impact players instead of depth right away. we are on the verge of a super bowl and all you get for our team is depth??? You gotta be kidding me!!!!
Don't be so quick to give up Bibby! There's still going to be plenty of movement in free agency yet the next few months. Also could be some more trade activity.
I wish I had more characters left in my signature to add you to the wall of fame!

TitleTown088
04-25-2010, 09:36 PM
Why in the world do you have five sig quotes like that? It takes up half a page when you post.

cvv84
04-25-2010, 09:50 PM
Why in the world do you have five sig quotes like that? It takes up half a page when you post.

I like how he cuts out from other posts to create a message that he wants to deliver.

Bingo. We're set at many of skilled positions so we didn't need to go the flashy route.

Sure it would've been nice to add a CB and/or OLB but it didn't work that way and I don't think we should be writing off anyone without them even putting on the pads yet.

Thats my entire quote, chopped up to sound like something different.

Whistler6
04-25-2010, 10:05 PM
Fricken negativity...Getting old. Green Bay was 11-5 last year, with basically a top 5 offense and a top 10 defense. In their 1st year in a new scheme I might add.

If this season comes and goes, and Green Bay relapses into a sub-.500 team, then I'll jump on the bashing Ted bandwagon. Now though, I'm going to be excited to see the newcomers on the field.

The half-page sig is too long man.

Whistler6
04-25-2010, 10:06 PM
I like how he cuts

Maybe we better tell somebody about this. :rolleyes:

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 10:27 PM
I like how he cuts out from other posts to create a message that he wants to deliver.

Thats my entire quote, chopped up to sound like something different.
The thing only allows a set # of characters, and as important as you think you are, the other guys words carry some weight too. I can't just feature your whole comment in it.

LOL acting like you were misquoted. Sounding like Gary Sheffield or Roger Clemens a bit there.....

Again, I am just the messenger here. All those things were said/written here by you guys prior to the end of the draft and you all did plenty of homework prior to the draft.

Whistler, I did just try and manipulate the thing to shrink it down in size.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 10:41 PM
PACKERS DRAFT RECAP LOL CLASSIC COMMENTS from PACKER NATION
We gotta admit, the past 72 hours has been a lot of roller coaster moments!

Anyway, some of you really cracked me up, even cvv84 (with the callout for Merriman) but especially PF28!!!

But after TT's post-draft spin cycle, I think we'll see a lot more optimism from many of those that were pissed off.

We've been surprised both ways in the past by Thompson's picks and results, so only time can accurately judge this class. None of us can right now. The only thing is, in 3-5 years, Woodson, Driver, Harris, Tausch and Clifton will be gone. We need some immediate help at key areas, not just depth at strong positions.
I'm just not impressed. Not what I expected from such a deep draft this year.
In the long run I think this draft does really nothing for us.
Brown and Campbell are sitting in our laps! I am so excited right now, but will be crushed once we pass on both. ENTER MICHAEL NEAL
Passing on some very good prospects for a poor value pick at a position we really, really don't need.
There's enough CB depth that I'm comfortable waiting until the 3rd. Definitely not my favorite pick.
disappointed we didn't get a corner today, so I'm hoping Akwasi or Ghee somehow drops to the 5th.
it would've been nice to add a CB and/or OLB
This may be worse than Harrell. I'm having a hard time stomaching this pick.
I never thought TT would pass up Golden Tate or Charles Brown 2nd.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
we could have gotten DL depth later in the draft. This is the 2nd round and its still a premium spot. I'm going to be watch Charles Brown and Bruce Campbell's careers closely now because I feel like we made a mistake here. I would've rather traded down instead of taking Neal in the 2nd.
I don't buy that Neal was the best player available
didn't need to pick Neil quit that high(imo)
Stupid! Quarless is gonna work his way out of the league ^THAT ONE GAVE ME A LMFAO MOMENT!
Too bad we don't pick again til the 5th. I wanted a CB in rounds 2-4 and a OLB in rounds 3-5. If we didn't pick Neal we would have been able to do that easily.
We have a shot at Warren with our 6th i hope we take it... That would make me very happy
I think the biggest mistake in this draft was giving up our 4th. TT could've picked Burrnett in the 2nd and it would've been a solid pick, Neal most likely would've been around when the Pack picked in the 3rd then they could've taken someone like Schoefield in the 4th
Leon Washington to the Seahawks for a 5th? I would've given both Green Bay's picks this round for him
We added absolutely no pass rushers at the OLB position. Plus, we brought nobody at corner and the team will suffer for it.
besides BB and MB, i feel the pack had a pretty weak draft...reached on Neal and Quarless....hopefully im proven wrong
Agreed. At this point I'd almost consider seeing what the Chargers want for Merriman
Banking on Pat Lee to produce anything in his third season is downright stupid on the team's part
I am not a fan of Quarless' work ethic and.... I don't like the pick.
Bulaga .....he's a second stringer for possibly the next two years but...
Neal = Didn't like the pick
Newhouse = WTF. Jamon Meredith was 10 times the selection of this kid. Terrible value IMO
Ugh. We don't need (more) DLine depth. We needed secondary/linebacker depth...even an ILB since Hawk has a year left.
Im shocked we didn't take an OLB or CB. Wow we're putting a lot of faith in the guys we have. Our pass defense could kill us. AGAIN

I didn't make any of these up, I am just the messenger!

Whistler6
04-25-2010, 10:41 PM
The thing only allows a set # of characters, and as important as you think you are, the other guys words carry some weight too. I can't just feature your whole comment in it.

LOL acting like you were misquoted. Sounding like Gary Sheffield or Roger Clemens a bit there.....

Again, I am just the messenger here. All those things were said/written here by you guys prior to the end of the draft and you all did plenty of homework prior to the draft.

Whistler, I did just try and manipulate the thing to shrink it down in size.

No worries man, it doesn't bother me either way. I've definitely had long sigs in the past, so I probably should have just kept my mouth shut. As long as none of my quotes make it in there, because half the time what comes out of my mouth is next to clueless.

J-Mike88
04-25-2010, 10:50 PM
No worries man, it doesn't bother me either way. I've definitely had long sigs in the past, so I probably should have just kept my mouth shut. As long as none of my quotes make it in there, because half the time what comes out of my mouth is next to clueless.
That's what makes the funniest moments usually!
No worries mate, some people take it a little too seriously and don't realize that only time can truly judge a draft, not any analyst, fan, or GM. anything now from any of us is called opinion, nothing more!

PossibleCabbage
04-25-2010, 10:56 PM
What? How do you figure? I could see the Packers keeping more than 6 D lineman easily. In fact, I'd almost guarantee it.

It's just a roster numbers thing. 3-4 teams don't activate more than 5 DL on game days, and they have enough guys with PS eligibility that they don't need to keep a bunch of guys that won't play. If we keep 7, I bet it's because they like Anthony Toribio a lot, but Talley, Wynn, and Wilson all have PS eligibility.

Here's my stab at the 53 for next year:

Offense(24)
QB(2): Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn.
RB(3): Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
FB(2): Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall.
(Could be Kuhn instead of Hall, but Kuhn's primary advantages over Hall are as a runner and as a hammer. Quinn Johnson is a better hammer, and Hall is a better receiver, and I'm sick of the FB dive).
TE(3): Jermichael Finley, Spencer Havner, Andrew Quarless
(Could be Lee instead of Havner, or Havner instead of Quarless, but I'm guessing that Lee's drops from last season spell his doom)
WR(5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brett Swain.
(Could only keep four, and one of the developmental guys could take Swain's job)
T(4): Chad Clifton, T.J Lang, Bryan Bulaga, Mark Tauscher.
G(3): Josh Sitton, Jason Spitz, Daryn Colledge.
C(2): Scott Wells, Evan Dietrich-Smith
(It would take a miracle for either Barbre or Giacomini to make the team, but miracles do happen. I think the guy on the bubble is Evan Dietrich-Smith. Newhouse could easily take his job, since we probably don't need three centers.)

Defense(26)
NT(2): Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji
DE(4): Cullen Jenkins, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal, Jarius Wynn
(There's a four guys competing for the last roster spot: Justin Harrell, Jarius Wynn, CJ Wilson, and Ronald Talley; but there's only room for one of them).
ILB(4): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brandon Chillar, Desmond Bishop.
OLB(5): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Cyril Obiozor, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson.
(Jeremy Thompson could retire, and we could add somebody)
FS(2): Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
SS(2): Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby.
CB(7): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Al Harris, Josh Bell, Will Blackmon.
(Trevor Ford could beat out Josh Bell, Will Blackmon could be bumped off by any other return specialist)

Specialists(3)
K(1): Mason Crosby
P(1): Damned if I know, but somebody.
LS(1): Brett Goode.

Pretty confident about the numbers, less so the names. 9 OL, 6 DL, 9-10 LBs, 10-11 DBs.

GB12
04-25-2010, 11:00 PM
Wynn does not have practice squad eligibility. Even if he did I doubt he'd make it through waivers.

PossibleCabbage
04-25-2010, 11:10 PM
Wynn does not have practice squad eligibility. Even if he did I doubt he'd make it through waivers.

Ah, okay. But Wilson and Talley do. I think the sixth DL spot ultimately comes down to Harrell vs. Wynn, though.

GB12
04-25-2010, 11:17 PM
I think Wynn is pretty safe. If Harrell shows he's worth keeping this year I bet we'd go to 7 DL.

But yeah Talley and, assuming he makes it through waivers, Wilson will be on the practice squad.

johbur
04-26-2010, 03:17 AM
But after TT's post-draft spin cycle, I think we'll see a lot more optimism from many of those that were pissed off.

We've been surprised both ways in the past by Thompson's picks and results, so only time can accurately judge this class. None of us can right now. The only thing is, in 3-5 years, Woodson, Driver, Harris, Tausch and Clifton will be gone. We need some immediate help at key areas, not just depth at strong positions.

I didn't make any of these up, I am just the messenger!

You forgot your own from the Dallas board... ;D
My fave from that is that Bulaga is just another "short-armed pale offensive lineman who will blend right in."

On the ST note, the information on the lack of care devoted to special teams is pretty telling. No return threats unless Blackmon plays healthy all year, no credible punter yet, and our PK was not great as a percentage kicker. I liked Crosby, but aren't ST coaches supposed to help players get better? Which Packers kicker has improved while in GB?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/92024409.html

cuzifelt1ikeit
04-26-2010, 10:44 AM
You forgot your own from the Dallas board... ;D
My fave from that is that Bulaga is just another "short-armed pale offensive lineman who will blend right in."

On the ST note, the information on the lack of care devoted to special teams is pretty telling. No return threats unless Blackmon plays healthy all year, no credible punter yet, and our PK was not great as a percentage kicker. I liked Crosby, but aren't ST coaches supposed to help players get better? Which Packers kicker has improved while in GB?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/92024409.html

haha sweet sig dude. thumbs up

PossibleCabbage
04-26-2010, 10:53 AM
Wait a minute. Can someone explain to me where the "Bulaga has short arms" thing came from?

Bryan Bulaga has 33 1/4" arms.
Joe Thomas (#3 overall, 2007) has 32 1/2" arms
Jake Long (#1 overall, 2008) has 32 7/8" arms
Michael Oher (#23 overall, 2009) has 33 1/2" arms
Trent Williams (#4 overall, 2010) has 34" arms

It seems like "has average arm length" is something that impartial evaluators will say, which is accurate and people who don't like the prospect will spin that into "has short arms".

TitleTown088
04-26-2010, 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
I'm very f**** jealous as a Packer fan.
We should have had the pick before this and taken him, but our idiot GM drafted Mike Neal in round 2 instead of 4 or 5, so instead of taking Morgan Burnett in round 2, he had to trade away this 4th round pick to move up in round 3.
I also wanted Dez Bryant who Thompson let slide to take another short-armed pale offensive lineman who will blend right in.
It's gotta be nice having a GM who's not afraid to swing for the fence sometimes.

I find it somewhat Ironic to read that when your user name is named after a guy Ted drafted.

J-Mike88
04-26-2010, 01:33 PM
I find it somewhat Ironic to read that when your user name is named after a guy Ted drafted.
Well Ted has conducted 6 drafts for the Packers so about 60 players.
In other words, most of our players should have been a guy Ted drafted right? Especially since he is the GM who believes in building thru the draft more than any other. How's that stand out or is ironic?
Can someone explain to me where the "Bulaga has short arms"

Bryan Bulaga has 33 1/4" arms
Jared Veldheer 33" at 6-8
Joe Thomas (#3 overall, 2007) has 32 1/2" arms
Jake Long (#1 overall, 2008) has 32 7/8" arms

Michael Oher (#23 overall, 2009) has 33 1/2" arms
Trent Williams (#4 overall, 2010) has 34" arms
Bruce Campbell 36 1/4"
Anthony Davis 34 1/8"
Charles Brown 35 1/4
Russell Okung 36"

Which group has the shortest 4 sets of arms?
This is another aspect of that thing -a la Toby Gerhart- that goes unmentioned. Oher's are actually shorter than you'd expect which I believe played some role in him not being a top 10 pick like Okung was. Oher was a better player without question, but scouts love those long arms. Campbell has em too, but he played like Jane.

Bulaga's are typical of who he is basically...and as you point out, are longer than Thomas and Jake Long.... all 3 guys from the Big Ten ironically. I see Bulaga at LT even though the pundits are saying not.

TitleTown088
04-26-2010, 01:37 PM
Well Ted has conducted 6 drafts for the Packers so about 60 players.
In other words, most of our players should have been a guy Ted drafted right? Especially since he is the GM who believes in building thru the draft more than any other. How's that stand out or is ironic?


I was getting at that with that other quote you were essentially criticizing Ted's philosophy of building through the draft, but yet you're named after one of his prospects that came to the Packers because of that philosophy.

tjsunstein
04-26-2010, 02:16 PM
Packers coach Mike McCarthy confirmed that first-round pick Bryan Bulaga will begin the offseason at left tackle.
"Bryan will line up at left tackle," McCarthy said. "He'll line up right there behind Chad Clifton with Allen Barbre and he will take those reps." On the right side, Mark Tauscher will be pushed by T.J. Lang and Breno Giacomini. In all likelihood, Bulaga will begin the season as Green Bay's "swing" tackle, and pick up starts when the injury-prone Clifton goes down.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=5693&line=172333&spln=1

So, he will start his career here taking snaps at LT. I like how MM mentioned Allen Barbre like he's a threat to Bulaga's reps.

J-Mike88
04-26-2010, 02:44 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=5693&line=172333&spln=1

So, he will start his career here taking snaps at LT. I like how MM mentioned Allen Barbre like he's a threat to Bulaga's reps.
So Barbre at RT flopped like Vlade Divac on a touch foul, and now they're gonna take a look at Allen at LT protecting Arod's blind side?

Favre4ever
04-26-2010, 02:53 PM
Fricken negativity...Getting old. Green Bay was 11-5 last year, with basically a top 5 offense and a top 10 defense. In their 1st year in a new scheme I might add.

If this season comes and goes, and Green Bay relapses into a sub-.500 team, then I'll jump on the bashing Ted bandwagon. Now though, I'm going to be excited to see the newcomers on the field.

The half-page sig is too long man.

You whats worse, is that we easily could have been 13-3 with the tampa Bay and Pittsbrugh debacle... Yep frickin negativity.

PossibleCabbage
04-26-2010, 03:22 PM
Bulaga's are typical of who he is basically...and as you point out, are longer than Thomas and Jake Long.... all 3 guys from the Big Ten ironically. I see Bulaga at LT even though the pundits are saying not.

Yeah, I think the "short arms" thing is ultimately irrelevant for Bulaga's success or not. Joe Thomas and Jake Long are both very effective NFL LTs, despite having even shorter arms. Bulaga's not as good an athlete as Thomas, but he's on par with Jake Long.

Having watched Hawkeye football pretty closely for a number of years (I got my Master's there), I'm sort of baffled as to why Bulaga fell like he did. Sure, the 09' tape didn't live up to the hype from his 2008 tape, but it was fairly clear that the thyroiditis sapped a lot of his conditioning and strength when he came back. Since viral infections aren't really recurring, I think the '08 tape and the Orange Bowl tape is a lot more indicative of the player that the Packers are getting. The Robert Gallery comparisons might have hurt Bulaga too (he's claimed in interviews that Gallery was one of his idols), but I think they're pretty off base. Gallery was a brilliant technician and a powerhouse with genuinely short arms (32 1/4"), but his feet were really questionable. Bulaga isn't half the technician Gallery was, and isn't quite as powerful yet, but he's got significantly better feet. He's not going to look pretty in pass pro, like the elite athletes like Charles Brown and Trent Williams will, but he'll certainly scrap and get the job done, and likely be more consistent than those guys. Green Bay has had a lot more success in recent memory with OL with lots of experience, solid fundamentals, and really good work ethic (Jason Spitz, Josh Sitton, T.J. Lang, etc.) than they have with guys who have elite measurables, tantalizing potential, but questionable technique/drive/consistency (Daryn Colledge, Allen Barbre, Jamon Meredith, etc.) Bulaga is squarely in the former camp. I don't love our OL coaches, but I do think they're good enough to refine some technique in a guy, but they can't be trusted on to do a brain transplant or completely sculpt a guy from raw clay.

Really, the only real concern I have over Bulaga as a LT is that he might struggle against some of the speed rushers with extremely long arms (Demarcus Ware, and Aaron Maybin if he ever amounts to anything). But those types of players will give a lot of people fits, and they're pretty darn rare (part of why Maybin went so high last year, fully with the expectation that he'll do nothing as a rookie.)

J-Mike88
04-26-2010, 04:17 PM
well-said cabbage.
julius peppers might play on that side too, at least some time.
can't remember his arm length, but it seems he can reach up and grab the crossbar.

and i'd love aaron maybin and i expect him to step up now in buffalo's new 3-4. but i also remember thinking that brad jones game film was just as impressive as maybin, a year ago.

johbur
04-27-2010, 02:23 AM
I'm most interested in seeing how Bulaga's footwork and technical skills translate to the cutting zone blocking the Packers are using. Ken Ruetgers didn't start until late in his career and it was after he honed his technique, so I hope Bulaga is better than that, but Ruetgers was a solid technician that more than held down the LT during Favre's early years.

PossibleCabbage
04-27-2010, 12:39 PM
I'm most interested in seeing how Bulaga's footwork and technical skills translate to the cutting zone blocking the Packers are using. Ken Ruetgers didn't start until late in his career and it was after he honed his technique, so I hope Bulaga is better than that, but Ruetgers was a solid technician that more than held down the LT during Favre's early years.

The Iowa Hawkeyes run a zone blocking running game almost exclusively. There shouldn't be much of a scheme transition at all. It's actually a power-ZBS similar to what the Packers run. The classic ZBS that was the mark of Alex Gibbs and Mike Shanahan is almost extinct from the NFL these days.

J-Mike88
04-27-2010, 01:35 PM
Here's Bob McGinn responding to a question from Digger:

A: Bob McGinn - Digger: I know everyone is convinced Bulaga was a steal and will be a 10-year tackle, etc. But did you read those 21 comments in Friday's paper (the one from Bill Polian was on top of the page in a box)? Not very often have I ever typed in the pre-draft comments regarding a GB No. 1 pick and had less glowing praise. I don't know. But I know what the decision-makers told me before the draft. And that is absolutely the best way to measure any of the GBP picks.

Just because Bulaga was there and all those silly mock drafters around the country had him going top 10 doesn't mean he is a lead-pipe cinch to become a player. It doesn't happen that way. There are significant reservations about Bulaga and just how good he can be as a pro. Now if the pick had been Hughes and I had typed in the 18 or so comments that I had, it would have been a different story.
I can't remember one scout ripping Hughes for anything. Height would be the only thing (6-2), and that was very, very mild. The guy can rush the passer. I am pointing out that it's one thing to believe all the hype and team-related commentary and just assume Bulaga is this valuable LT.

J-Mike88
04-27-2010, 02:49 PM
2011 Draft, the Packers select......

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/andrew_perloff/04/27/2011.mock.draft/1.html

contento
04-27-2010, 03:51 PM
Keep in mind Ferentz has yet to send an elite OL to the NFL, in fact most of them are downright bad...but I'm sure this won't affect Bulaga at all.

http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042210aaa.html

J-Mike88
04-27-2010, 04:27 PM
Keep in mind Ferentz has yet to send an elite OL to the NFL, in fact most of them are downright bad...but I'm sure this won't affect Bulaga at all.

http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042210aaa.html
Well in defense of the pick, I don't think TT was looking for "elite".
He wants dependable, reliable, hard-working, and a solid citizen off the field.

princefielder28
04-27-2010, 04:46 PM
2011 Draft, the Packers select......

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/andrew_perloff/04/27/2011.mock.draft/1.html

Von Miller can be downright filthy; he'd be an interesting addition

J-Mike88
04-27-2010, 04:55 PM
Von Miller can be downright filthy; he'd be an interesting addition
I'm pretty sure I saw some mock LAST year having us taking him in this 2010 draft. If the pick comes true, then that will probably mean Brad Jones didn't come through as Ted desired.
For all our sakes, I hope that's not the case.

Bot notice where they have us picking: It would mean another playoff appearance, but one & out again :(

I hope the Vikings are picking in the first 15 picks.

umphrey
04-27-2010, 05:43 PM
Personally I don't see the "low ceiling" label Bulaga has. There have been plenty of pro bowl tackles working with less than what he has. I don't mean to imply that he is even deficient in the physical category, more like average. With OL, the most important things are technique, effort, lower body strength anyway. That's why Bruce Campbell was a 4th rounder. He might not have hall of fame ceiling, but I think his range is average right tackle to pro bowl (not 1st team all pro) left tackle.

PossibleCabbage
04-27-2010, 08:45 PM
Keep in mind Ferentz has yet to send an elite OL to the NFL, in fact most of them are downright bad...but I'm sure this won't affect Bulaga at all.

http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042210aaa.html

If you pay attention to Iowa's recruiting classes, they're not very good. Ferentz tends not to get highly touted prospects, and he doesn't usually get elite athletes who aren't from the state of Iowa to begin with (and there aren't that many of them). What Ferentz does with offensive linemen is that he takes whatever he's got, and gives them very solid fundamentals, and good technique. That's going to work in college, but doesn't always translate to the pros. Most of Ferentz's OL are guys like Kyle Calloway, hardworking, good fundamentals, but there's not that much to work with. Add that to the fact that Ferentz's linemen run pretty much exclusively zone blocking, they're not always the best fits in man-blocking in the NFL (at least, there's some teaching that needs to be done).

Bulaga though? He's the best athlete on the offensive line that Ferentz has ever had in his time at Iowa (much, much better than Gallery). He's had a 4.62 short shuttle and ran a 7.4 second 3-cone. Those aren't "your eyes pop out of your skull" numbers (like those put up by Allen Barbre or Bruce Campbell) but they're better numbers than Joe Thomas or Jake Long put up.

So if you take a guy who's on par with NFL left tackles Joe Thomas and Jake Long in terms of athleticism, with longer arms, and with solid fundamentals and a whole lot of experience zone blocking, why wouldn't he be great in Green Bay?

PACKmanN
04-28-2010, 02:00 PM
I see so much of an Johnny Jolly in Neal.

PossibleCabbage
04-28-2010, 02:12 PM
I see so much of an Johnny Jolly in Neal.

I think you can probably get a lot more pass rush out of Neal than you can out of Jolly. Jolly is assignment-sure and very stout at the point, but really his best pass rush moves are "bat the ball out of the air" and "make an inspired, twisting, king-kong-swatting-an-airplane-out-of-the-air-one-handed-interception", which are certainly wins for the defense but sometimes you just want to get a guy in the QB's face.

Neal's really strong and has really good burst at this point. If you could teach him a counter or two to his bull rush, he could definitely harass the QB from inside.

I would not be surprised at all if the DL in the base were Jenkins, Pickett, Jolly while the DL in the nickel were Raji and Neal. They play a lot of nickel, so expect Neal to get more than enough snaps this year.

contento
04-28-2010, 02:43 PM
If you pay attention to Iowa's recruiting classes, they're not very good. Ferentz tends not to get highly touted prospects, and he doesn't usually get elite athletes who aren't from the state of Iowa to begin with (and there aren't that many of them). What Ferentz does with offensive linemen is that he takes whatever he's got, and gives them very solid fundamentals, and good technique. That's going to work in college, but doesn't always translate to the pros. Most of Ferentz's OL are guys like Kyle Calloway, hardworking, good fundamentals, but there's not that much to work with. Add that to the fact that Ferentz's linemen run pretty much exclusively zone blocking, they're not always the best fits in man-blocking in the NFL (at least, there's some teaching that needs to be done).

Bulaga though? He's the best athlete on the offensive line that Ferentz has ever had in his time at Iowa (much, much better than Gallery). He's had a 4.62 short shuttle and ran a 7.4 second 3-cone. Those aren't "your eyes pop out of your skull" numbers (like those put up by Allen Barbre or Bruce Campbell) but they're better numbers than Joe Thomas or Jake Long put up.

So if you take a guy who's on par with NFL left tackles Joe Thomas and Jake Long in terms of athleticism, with longer arms, and with solid fundamentals and a whole lot of experience zone blocking, why wouldn't he be great in Green Bay?


You seriously think Bulaga is more athletic than Gallery? and he's also on par with Thomas/Long athletically?

I never said he wouldn't be great, just pointed out that Ferentz has yet to deliver a great OL to the league...

GB12
04-28-2010, 03:09 PM
I would not be surprised at all if the DL in the base were Jenkins, Pickett, Jolly while the DL in the nickel were Raji and Neal. They play a lot of nickel, so expect Neal to get more than enough snaps this year.

I don't see Neal being a better pass rusher than Cullen Jenkins.

PossibleCabbage
04-28-2010, 06:03 PM
You seriously think Bulaga is more athletic than Gallery? and he's also on par with Thomas/Long athletically?

Yes.

Jake Long (6′7 1/8", 313)
3-Cone Drill: 7.44
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.73
(Arms: 32 7/8")

Joe Thomas (6'6 1/2", 311)
3-Cone Drill: 7.95
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.88
(Arms: 32 1/2")

Bryan Bulaga (6'5 3/8", 314)
3-Cone Drill: 7.40
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.62
(Arms: 33 1/4")

[40 time is irrelevant for offensive linemen. 10 yard split per unit weight (weight/height) is relevant, but not as much so as for other positions. No other "athleticism" metrics the combine measures matter; 3 cone and short shuttle are the best indicators of OL athleticism.]

I've also, you know, seen every game that Robert Gallery and Bryan Bulaga ever played as a Hawkeye, and seen quite a bit of Thomas and Long as well. If I recall correctly, Gallery tested pretty well (I don't have him on any of my spreadsheets), but even when he was dominant in college, his feet were horrible.

J-Mike88
04-28-2010, 06:10 PM
Those are great numbers. The numbers alone compare very favorably. If he can be as good as either of those guys, I'm happy.

Who are the other best young LTs in the NFL?
Ryan Clady?

I find it interesting that, as with Walter Jones before and the Chiefs LT in the Priest Holmes era, that a great LT never wins a Super Bowl. Anyone think of some exceptions? Anthony Munoz?

PossibleCabbage
04-28-2010, 06:22 PM
I find it interesting that, as with Walter Jones before and the Chiefs LT in the Priest Holmes era, that a great LT never wins a Super Bowl. Anyone think of some exceptions? Anthony Munoz??

Johnathan Ogden was the best left tackle I've ever seen, and he's got a ring.

J-Mike88
04-28-2010, 08:00 PM
Johnathan Ogden was the best left tackle I've ever seen, and he's got a ring.
Yes, he won one pass-protecting for the prolific Trent Dilfer-led Ravens offense. Trent won as many rings as Farve did.
I still think Anthony Munoz was the best ever. But Ogden was pretty damn good. Very tall guy.

Here's a good piece on BULAGA and his "short" arms from ESPNs NFC North guy: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/12020/daily-mailbag-the-insanity-of-short-arms?utm_source=bleacherreport.com

Must Read

PossibleCabbage
04-28-2010, 09:15 PM
Yes, he won one pass-protecting for the prolific Trent Dilfer-led Ravens offense. Trent won as many rings as Farve did.
I still think Anthony Munoz was the best ever. But Ogden was pretty damn good. Very tall guy.

Well, that's true. Teams tend not to win championships because they have outstanding blocking (other than maybe the Lombardi era Packers). Teams tend to win championships with adequate blocking and some other outstanding aspect of their offensive game.

But you're not going to have an all-pro at every position, you're always going to have to make tradeoffs somewhere. I'm personally firmly of the belief that (at least in the NFL) you do better on offense with "good enough" blocking and elite QB play. It's similar on defense, actually, where you do better with a "good enough" secondary and a very solid front 7. Best to have the strength of your team be the guys who are going to spend the most time close to the ball, as they're going to be involved in the most plays.

contento
04-29-2010, 01:29 PM
Yes.

Jake Long (6′7 1/8", 313)
3-Cone Drill: 7.44
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.73
(Arms: 32 7/8")

Joe Thomas (6'6 1/2", 311)
3-Cone Drill: 7.95
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.88
(Arms: 32 1/2")

Bryan Bulaga (6'5 3/8", 314)
3-Cone Drill: 7.40
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.62
(Arms: 33 1/4")

[40 time is irrelevant for offensive linemen. 10 yard split per unit weight (weight/height) is relevant, but not as much so as for other positions. No other "athleticism" metrics the combine measures matter; 3 cone and short shuttle are the best indicators of OL athleticism.]

I've also, you know, seen every game that Robert Gallery and Bryan Bulaga ever played as a Hawkeye, and seen quite a bit of Thomas and Long as well. If I recall correctly, Gallery tested pretty well (I don't have him on any of my spreadsheets), but even when he was dominant in college, his feet were horrible.

You're honestly posting times from two combine drills and concluding that Bulaga is more athletic than Thomas/Long/Gallery? jesus, it's okay to let the pipe cool down once in a while...


Thomas is a no-brainer, I think you're out on a real thin branch with your opinion on him verse Bulaga. Thomas is the most athletic OT since Walter Jones, even if the numbers aren't eye-popping. He's a converted TE who still moves like a TE even at 300+ pounds.

Long I might've agreed with you before last season, but after that awful first game he proved that he's as athletic as any OT going...not to mention his functional strength blows Bulaga out of the water.

Gallery posted a 4.38 SS and 7.43 3-cone, while being 2 inches taller than Bulaga. Again, widely considered a physical marvel coming out and another converted TE who lost little agility while being 315lbs or so.


I know it's convenient for you to ignore other measurables of overall athleticism like 40times/Broad Jump/Vertical, because they deflate your argument, but suffice it to say Bulaga was below average on all those events.


I'm glad you saw every game Bulaga played, and I'm sure NFL scouts did as well, which makes me wonder how he can be more athletic than PB'ers like Long and Thomas- yet get passed on 22 times AND be the 4th OT taken in the draft?

umphrey
04-29-2010, 01:43 PM
Well it seems to me one of you is saying Bulaga is more athletic because he tested better as a prospect, and the other is saying Bulaga is less athletic because of college tape of him vs NFL tape of the others. One of your arguments is completely flawed at this point but the best way to determine once we get him on the field.

contento
04-29-2010, 01:46 PM
Don't forget I'm also discounting Bulaga because he's from Iowa, a product of Ferentz the "OL Guru" who has yet to develop an above-average NFL offensive lineman.

Boston
04-29-2010, 02:39 PM
Don't forget I'm also discounting Bulaga because he's from Iowa, a product of Ferentz the "OL Guru" who has yet to develop an above-average NFL offensive lineman.

Aaron Rodgers is from Cal...what's your point?

johbur
04-30-2010, 01:57 AM
Yeah, those Tedford guys never do well, especially when they're on the short side...

Anyways, though initially underwhelmed by this draft class as I still feel CB is a serious issue, I think there might be a handful of players that stick on the team, and really, whether a player is taken in R1 or UDFA, if they're still on the team after four years, that was a good selection. I am worried about the injuries some of the prospects have, but the OL and DL received help and now TT has turned his eye to the UDFAs, and he's been solid finding guys there. One thing about it now is that if these draft picks do stick, then the players TT acquired prior were the busts. Like on the OL, if Newhouse bumps someone, and it's not Dietrich-Smith, that means yet another TT OL prospect has failed. I don't know whether it's hard to judge OL, or whether the Packers scouting staff recently hasn't done such a good job of doing so, but there have been 10 picks on the OL by TT, and he has two starters in Sitton and Colledge, with Spitz a possible starter again if he comes back strong from injury an maybe Lang in there mixing it up. Coston, Whitticker (who did start, though obviously out of desperation rather than talent), Moll (also had double digit starts but again out of injury needs versus talent), Meredith didn't make the club and Barbre and Giacomini haven't shown anything more than off-field promise. With Bulaga a lock and Newhouse likely making the team, who gets cut this year?

GB12
04-30-2010, 02:22 AM
You can't hit on every prospect. I think the problem with most Ted Thompson critics is that they expect perfection or at least close to it.

Hitting on 3 out of 8 lineman (not going to count '09 or '10 yet) is pretty damn good. Especially when you look at the rounds he took them in. Out of the 5 that didn't turn out not a single one of them was taken before the 4th round. You can't expect starters out of rounds 4-7. Obviously they can be found there, but you can't fault him that. And besides there have been 46 starts made between those 5 that didn't pan out. Sure they might have been pushed into starting, but it's not like they were completely worthless

tjsunstein
04-30-2010, 03:05 AM
NFLDraftScout.com has received Georgia Tech's official pro day results, which weren't posted by NFL.com, and Burnett turned a 3.92-second shuttle run, which was the fastest among all prospects recorded at pro days across the country. Burnett also posted a 4.44-second 40-yard dash that was discounted because he rolled at the start.

umphrey
04-30-2010, 03:49 AM
Yeah, those Tedford guys never do well, especially when they're on the short side...

Anyways, though initially underwhelmed by this draft class as I still feel CB is a serious issue, I think there might be a handful of players that stick on the team, and really, whether a player is taken in R1 or UDFA, if they're still on the team after four years, that was a good selection. I am worried about the injuries some of the prospects have, but the OL and DL received help and now TT has turned his eye to the UDFAs, and he's been solid finding guys there. One thing about it now is that if these draft picks do stick, then the players TT acquired prior were the busts. Like on the OL, if Newhouse bumps someone, and it's not Dietrich-Smith, that means yet another TT OL prospect has failed. I don't know whether it's hard to judge OL, or whether the Packers scouting staff recently hasn't done such a good job of doing so, but there have been 10 picks on the OL by TT, and he has two starters in Sitton and Colledge, with Spitz a possible starter again if he comes back strong from injury an maybe Lang in there mixing it up. Coston, Whitticker (who did start, though obviously out of desperation rather than talent), Moll (also had double digit starts but again out of injury needs versus talent), Meredith didn't make the club and Barbre and Giacomini haven't shown anything more than off-field promise. With Bulaga a lock and Newhouse likely making the team, who gets cut this year?

Well I agree that up until now (before the draft) his only success has been Sitton, Lang, possibly Spitz, and he's done a poor job drafting OL. But some of those guys you have to put in perspective at when they were taken.
-Whittacker we just needed someone, anyone able to start at guard
-Coston, Giacomini, Barbre, Meredith were boom/bust picks that all busted. This is the low point, because he swung for the fences 4 times and didn't manage a single.
-Colledge was another failure, a guard they thought could play tackle, but he isn't even a good guard.
-Moll they just wanted a utility backup and IMO according to their assessment of him he could give them some security until they were able to establish proper backups.

So my point is Lang, Sitton and Spitz were winners, Coston, Giacomini, Barbre, Meredith were lottery tickets that lost, Colledge hurt the most because the second round should produce starters, and give him a pass on Moll and Whittacker because he was just using late round picks to fill space until they found someone better.

That's a fairly average track record I'd say. He gets and deserves blame for the abysmal line he put out there at the start of 09 though, which is why people scrutinize his draft record so much. However, if all goes as planned and Bulaga, Lang, Sitton, Spitz are all decent, then we'll have to pat him on the back. We'll have to wait and see on that. Personally I'm glad he retained 2 veteran tackles, a decent center and IMO a sub-par LG in addition to those 4 guys that look good for the future, so even if the plan fails we have time to adjust.

J-Mike88
04-30-2010, 08:19 AM
-Coston, Giacomini, Barbre, Meredith were boom/bust picks that all busted. This is the low point, because he swung for the fences 4 times and didn't manage a single.

So my point is Lang, Sitton and Spitz were winners, Coston, Giacomini, Barbre, Meredith were lottery tickets that lost....

I don't think youc an call Meredith a bust already. He didn't ever get a chance. You have to remember that a lot of now-good NFL O-Linemen did nothing their first year also. Meredith did more than many of them, just not for us because Ted tried (unsuccessfully) to hide him on the practice squad. You can't do that with a 6th round pick that had been projected much higher.

Also, if you can officially label Spitz as a winner, then we might have some problems there. He's been average to slightlly above average when he has played. Injuries are no fault of the GM, but they do matter and IMO must be considered into the grade of the player and his performance.

The pick of Spitz has been okay, but the good side to that is that hopefully people start to realize that Scott Wells is actually good. Everyone seems to always want to push Wells out the door because Bedard says that Spitz is bigger and better. We've not seen the evidence. Wells' body of work has been solid.

I'm not as down on the Bulaga pick as before, but I still wanted Jerry Hughes and would have sacrificed our #1 next year and more, plus a player or two, to have traded up to get Hughes. I wish we knew if TT made any attempt to trade up for him.

jackalope
04-30-2010, 07:02 PM
I don't think youc an call Meredith a bust already. He didn't ever get a chance. You have to remember that a lot of now-good NFL O-Linemen did nothing their first year also. Meredith did more than many of them, just not for us because Ted tried (unsuccessfully) to hide him on the practice squad. You can't do that with a 6th round pick that had been projected much higher.

Also, if you can officially label Spitz as a winner, then we might have some problems there. He's been average to slightlly above average when he has played. Injuries are no fault of the GM, but they do matter and IMO must be considered into the grade of the player and his performance.

The pick of Spitz has been okay, but the good side to that is that hopefully people start to realize that Scott Wells is actually good. Everyone seems to always want to push Wells out the door because Bedard says that Spitz is bigger and better. We've not seen the evidence. Wells' body of work has been solid.

I'm not as down on the Bulaga pick as before, but I still wanted Jerry Hughes and would have sacrificed our #1 next year and more, plus a player or two, to have traded up to get Hughes. I wish we knew if TT made any attempt to trade up for him.

That would have been a terrible move if you ask me.

J-Mike88
04-30-2010, 07:59 PM
That would have been a terrible move if you ask me.
They say this was a very good draft and if Hughes was good enough to be a 1st rounder this draft, he surely was next draft. But getting him an extra year (with, essentially next year's pick) is more than worth it if he's as good as I think he is.
Time will tell, although he now is on a team with a 4-3 unlike ours, so it's apples to oranges now.

cuzifelt1ikeit
04-30-2010, 08:00 PM
That would have been a terrible move if you ask me.

agreed. id be pretty bummed with that outcome. depending on the players being sent. next years first is a lot to give up.

RyanBraun8
04-30-2010, 09:37 PM
I'm not as down on the Bulaga pick as before, but I still wanted Jerry Hughes and would have sacrificed our #1 next year and more, plus a player or two, to have traded up to get Hughes. I wish we knew if TT made any attempt to trade up for him.

:rolleyes: If they were interested in him and thought he was good enough to trade a future first round pick for amongst other players/picks you'd think they would have picked him at 23. Not to mention being picked at 31 doesn't make him a solid 1st round player or worth a future 1st rounder. It would have been a pure wast of a future pick. I could understand maybe making a trade like they did for Clay last season but nothing close to what you suggested.

J-Mike88
04-30-2010, 09:54 PM
You gotta remember, next year's 1st for us is going to be one pick away from a 2nd round pick.

If Jerry Hughes is as good as I think he's gonna be, then it would have been a steal, however we got him, just like Matthews. If the player is that good, the pricetag is going to seem fair.

Anyway, time to get your #75 MOLL jersey changed to BULAGA.
I like Bulaga more and more....... and I don't mind the Colts so I can still root for Hughes most of the time.

johbur
05-01-2010, 02:54 AM
Maybe instead of scattering picks in the later rounds when he could have picked up, say a real punter, TT shoulda used his picks on OL in earlier rounds, maybe NOT trading down 10 times to accrue all those 4-7 picks that used to be 1-3 rounders. He also had free agency and trades available for solving the OL. As it is, he's still patching the OL together with Wolf and Sherman's OL picks. Starting with letting Wahl and Rivera walk and trying to replace them with two guys that were making less than 1 million combined, I just haven't seen TT serious about the OL until this year.

I love the Bulage pick, and the more I read about Newhouse and watch tape on him, the more I think Barbre and/or Giacomini are going to be on a different club after this camp. It'd be odd to have two rookie starters on the OL again, but I think it is a definite possibility now.

TitleTown088
05-01-2010, 03:07 AM
I'm not as down on the Bulaga pick as before, but I still wanted Jerry Hughes and would have sacrificed our #1 next year and more, plus a player or two, to have traded up to get Hughes. I wish we knew if TT made any attempt to trade up for him.

I think you're missing what this draft said about Ted and Capers insight into this defense. While it may be a simple case of an OLB not being top of their board I think they're content with Brad Jones, and you can't blame them. He's cheap and performed fairly well last season as a rookie. I think the drafting ( of pass rushers) along the Dline is showing that capers sees an improved pass rush coming from lineman, not just OLB like so many fans and writers expect.