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ElectricEye
04-25-2010, 08:37 PM
Figure it's a good idea to reorganize and look at the draft after draft day. Post ratings, thoughts, ect.

I'll start off with who I think will be impact players for us next year;

1. Rob Gronkowski
He's a complete player at the position. We haven't had that around here in a long time. I really think our offense has been missing a guy who is a good stationary target and can help seal off outside blocks runs. He's undoubtedly the starter for us and will probably end up being the best player we selected this year.

2. Brandon Spikes
Good or bad, he'll have an impact. We all know that running a bad forty isn't a death sentence for a player, especially a linebacker, but Spikes is SLOW. If he doesn't transition well, we could really be screwed at linebacker this year. If he does though, wow, we're really stacked at the position. It's almost shockingly out of character for us to take a linebacker that high. It's not the one we expected...but let's hope Bill knows what he's doing.

The one really, really good thing to take away from this draft is that none of those picks were soft players. They're all very, very physical and have the desire to win. There's a lot of leadership potential and football character in this draft class for us, and that's really something we have to like.

Don Vito
04-25-2010, 08:50 PM
I'm not too worried about Spikes speed. He is decent in coverage but we still have plenty of guys who could take over for him in passing downs like Guyton and McKenzie, we mainly needed a two down thumper and that is what Spikes will be at worst.

I wanted us to address front 7 or OL before anything, but I am happy with McCourty and Gronkowski as the first two picks. McCourty is the type of player we love, he is tough and will always be on the field, plus he has the potential to be a #1 corner. He and Butler are solid options for the future. Gronkowski is another guy with talent and toughness, he is a solid all around TE who could do everything for us. Maybe in the Witten mold, that would be nice.

Hernandez was a great value in the fourth. He is not a blocker by any means but he is a great athlete who will be a nice receiving option, maybe he can get coached up and become more well rounded. He and Gronkowski at TE for the future will be another nice tandem hopefully.

Jermaine Cunningham is a guy who I liked at UF, he may have been a slight reach but we all know if we like a guy we are gonna take him. He is a great athlete with good size for the position and he played well for the Gators. I think he could be a great pro, the 3-4 is perfect for him. He might take some time to develop but I'm excited about him.

I'd say for early impact it'll go-

1. Gronkowski
2. McCourty
3. Spikes
4. Hernandez
5. Mesko

I don't see the two late OL's playing this year, I like Robinson but I hope it doesn't come down to us needing him this year, Price could play early, and I don't see Deadrick making much of an impact. Weston is big and has some talent, but he is going to need some work probably. He played in a rotation in college. A bunch of those players do have potential to have bright futures here though, there weren't any real head-scratchers this year.

ElectricEye
04-25-2010, 09:03 PM
Deadrick was a guy I was advocating for us to take in the third or the fourth round. I think he's a hell of a bargain for us there. Even if he's just a body, he's a body completely capable of playing 3-4 DE. That's a rare commodity. I think he has the potential to be much more than that. We found a diamond last year with Pryor and I honestly feel like we've done it again. He might not play much this year, but I really feel like he has a good chance to stick with the team despite his abysmal speed.

Cunningham is a guy I see that's going to take a period of adjustment. Hopefully he'll get after the quarterback right away though. We all know how much of an issue that was for us, but I would even be happy if he just helped our run defense, which was also bad. Hell, our entire defense was bad once you made it past Wilfork and Warren.

McCourty should be solid right away. One of the things that hasn't worked with our corners lately is that so many of them are better suited manning up with people. Wilhite is our only real zone coverage type guy on our roster, and he's more of a depth player than a starter. In order to blitz and get after the quarterback at a better clip, we have to patch up our secondary and find guys that understand our scheme. McCourty fits the bill.

Don Vito
04-25-2010, 09:06 PM
I think Deadrick has a future with us, I just don't know how much of a chance he'll get this year. There are a lot of guys on the DL already who can play end and move around, he definitely has starting ability though. A lot of people viewed him as a first rounder earlier in the year, he was a key part if Bama's D.

Bigburt63
04-25-2010, 09:09 PM
I can't remember where exactly I read it, but Vince Wilfork was very happy with the Spikes pick. It was something to the effect of "that man is a football player." At worst, Spikes is the new Ted Johnson.

McCourty is a great pick IMO. All year I would hear people complain about how Wilhite and Wheatley were terrible and didn't deserve to be on the field. Then a corner is the first round pick, and people complain even more. He can develop into a potential #1, and right now is at worst the dime back, but more than likely is the nickel back as Springs won't be healthy all year.

I really hope that Cunningham can play well this year, because man do we need a pass rush. He probably won't start at the beginning of the year, but could very well end up starting by the end if he pans out.

I think that Hernandez could have a big impact this year working out of the slot, out of the backfield, and even some inline TE work. He is a great athlete who can be moved around and could be a reliable target this year. Gronkowski is definitely the starting TE, with him and Crumpler in for 2 TE sets (that is alot of beef!), but he is the traditional TE. He won't stretch the field, although he does have enough speed to go vertical, but once he catches the ball it will take alot to get him down.

Price will probably take some time to develop and get acclimated in the offense, but he should be utilized somewhat as there are so many question marks in our WR corps. Edelman essentially replaces Welker, Moss, Aiken, Tate off an injury, Patten who is old, and Holt. 3 of those could be gone after the year, so it makes sense to give Price some game experience to develop.

TNPatsFan
04-25-2010, 09:15 PM
Regarding Spikes' speed I would ask these questions:

Q. What was Ted Johnson's 40 time?
A. Not sure but it could not have been much better than Spikes.

Q. Was Johnson a key player on our championship teams?
A. Absolutely.

Q. Have we found a suitable replacement for Johnson since he left?
A. No.

Q. Can Spikes play that position?
A. Absolutely.

Q. Which player is a better all around LB and a better play maker, Johnson or Spikes?
A. Brandon Spikes.


I'm not worried about Spikes speed. Team speed on defense is important but you don't need every player to be a sprinter. As long as each player can play his role the way it needs to be played.

ElectricEye
04-25-2010, 09:15 PM
Can Hernandez play some fullback? Not in the traditional sense, but I think it would actually make some sense. He actually has the right build for it and his blocking is actually pretty decent when he's not asked to block in-line. We lack a real player at that position, and if he were to put some weight on he has the right build and strength to do it. Would be kind of fun to see him running routes out of the backfield.

Don Vito
04-25-2010, 09:16 PM
Spikes may be better in coverage than Johnson but there were few better linebackers against the run that I have ever seen. He was huge, strong, tough, psychotic on the field, and roided out of his skull. Great combination for Johnson's role.

As for Hernandez coming out of the backfield, yes he can do that. He was moved around all over the field at UF and came out of the backfield a bit. They used him a lot in shovel passes, he won't be a true FB but he can definitely play in that H-Back/TE role and he can split our too. He brings a lot of versatility and athleticism, BB will use him creatively I'm sure.

ElectricEye
04-25-2010, 09:19 PM
The thing I really like about Spikes is that he was a leader. We've really gone away from that quality lately. I'll take talent over a good personality in the locker room in most situations, but not right now. We really need that. We just didn't look like we wanted to play that badly at certain times last year.

Don Vito
04-25-2010, 09:23 PM
Yeah he was the Tebow of the defense when it comes to leadership and on field intelligence, but he is also tough as hell and plays pissed off. Anyone who saw him play in college knows he might not have to be game planned around like McClain was, but I doubt any player in college was more feared than Spikes. He is a badass who may have some weaknesses, but he is not useless in coverage and gets to the ball. We needed a player with his attitude and demeanor on that defense, I am very excited to see what he can do. We needed a linebacker who wants to hurt people.

ElectricEye
04-25-2010, 09:24 PM
Bring the nasty factor back. They might have been gentlemen off the field, but Bruschi and Vrabel played intense and violent on it. None of the guys we have on the roster now do that for us, not even Mayo. Not saying Mayo isn't a good player or intense even, but he's not out to kill you.

Don Vito
04-25-2010, 11:39 PM
Here's what I'd project/like to see for depth:

QB: Brady - Hoyer - Robinson
RB: Maroney - Taylor - Morris (RB/FB) - Faulk (3rd down) - BJGE (RB/FB)
WR: Moss - Welker (hurt) - Edelman - Holt - Tate - Aiken - Price - Slater
TE: Crumpler - Gronk - Hernandez
LT: Vollmer - Light - LeVoir
LG: Mankins - Ohrnberger - Connolly - Bussey
C: Koppen - Ohrnberger - Larsen
RG: Neal - Ohrnberger - Kaczur
RT: Light - Vollmer - Kaczur - Welch

LE: T. Warren - Pryor - Wright - D. Lewis - Deadrick
NT: Wilfork - Brace - G. Warren - Wright - Adams - D. Lewis
RE: G. Warren - Wright - Pryor - D. Lewis - Deadrick
LOLB: A. Thomas - P. Woods - Crable - Cunningham - B. Davis
SILB: Spikes - Seau - Guyton - McKenzie
WILB: Mayo - Guyton - McKenzie
ROLB: TBC - Crable - Cunningham - B. Davis - Woods
CB: Bodden - Butler - McCourty - Springs - Wilhite - Wheatley - Arrington
FS: Meriweather - Sanders - McGowan
SS: McGowan - Chung - Sanders

K: Gostkowski
P: Zoltan
KR: Tate -Edelman - Slater - McCourty - Price - Wheatley
PR: Tate -Edelman - McCourty

Possible cuts/retirements/practice squad: A. Thomas, E. Alexander, Stanbeck, Slater, T. Adams, Bussey, Connolly, Arrington, Seau, BJGE, Springs, Lockett, Damoine Lewis, Darryl Richard, Ryan Wendell, Amon Gordon, Adrian Grady, Bruce Davis, Crable, Ninkovich, Tank Williams (if not already gone), M. Murrell, Jeff Rowe, Eric Kettani, Rob Agone, Rob Meyers, Tate, Shun White, Tyree Barnes, Darnell Jenkins

ElectricEye
04-25-2010, 11:55 PM
I'll do one too.

QB: Brady - Hoyer - Robinson
RB: Maroney - Taylor - Faulk - Morris(FB) - BJE(FB)
TE: Gronk - Crumpler - Hernandez
WR: Moss - Welker - Holt - Edelman - Tate - Aiken -Price
LT: Light - Vollmer -Levoir
LG: Mankins - Ohrnberger - Connolly - Bussey
C: Koppen - Ohrnberger - Larsen
RG: Neal - Ohrnberger - Kaczur
RT: Vollmer - Kaczur - Welch

LE: T. Warren - Pryor - Wright - Deadrick
NT: Wilfork - Brace - Wright - Adams
RE: G. Warren - Wright - Pryor - Deadrick
LOLB: Pierre Woods - Cunningham - Crable
SILB: Spikes - McKenzie - Thomas
WILB: Mayo - Guyton - McKenzie
ROLB: Tully - Cunningham - Thomas
CB: Bodden - McCourty - Butler - Springs - Wilhite -Wheatley
FS: Meriweather - Sanders
SS: McGowan - Chung - Sanders

K: Gostkowski
P: Zoltan
KR: Tate - Edelman - McCourty
PR: Edelman - Welker - Tate - McCourty


I think AT is pretty much done here. Weird situation. Really feel a hell of lot better about this team this year. We've got some nasty. Hopefully Vollmer finally moves Light to the right side. Also hope that Tate rehab goes well enough that we'll see him when the season starts. Any particular reason you don't see him playing next year/being cut?

Don Vito
04-26-2010, 12:33 AM
I like that we are at least making an attempt to draft some tough and nasty players as you said. We need to get that swagger and toughness back that made us special and made the fans love the team; Spikes, McCourty, and Gronkowski definitely fit that bill for their positions. Hernandez isn't much of a blocker but he is a tough dude who plays with an edge, I like that. Vollmer has it, Mankins has it, and Neal has it too. I think LeVoir is a guy to watch for too because he has that nastiness about him, at least it looks that way from what we saw of him last year. Connolly too.

Spikes is an angry mofo. Cunningham gets pissed. Hell, even Deadrick got shot.

Longclaw
04-26-2010, 04:42 AM
Very happy with how the draft eventually panned out. This is really how the Pats stay competitive year after year (2 1st and 2nd next year). Our secondary is fixed same with our ILB's, I have high hopes for Cunningham AND Crable. Hopefully we get our stud DE next year and G. Warren produces albeit temporarily.

ElectricEye
04-26-2010, 09:39 AM
I've heard good things about Crable lately. I put him on the depth chart, but I could really see him getting cut. This is it for him this year. No more second chances or "injuries" If he isn't ready to play for us now, he's done here.

Also, I really can't say enough about how this draft improves our mental toughness. When you've got a good locker room core, that's not something you really talk about to this extent, but we've lost that lately. We drafted players who were legitimate cogs in championship football teams. All of these guys know how to win and like to do it. I don't think the players we've brought in lately really get that. There were times last year where our we really gave up, mostly on defense. The playoff game last year sticks out. We really didn't fight back much after they went up early and then when we got some momentum it was too late.

Don Vito
04-26-2010, 09:53 AM
I really want to see what Crable can do. I was so pumped when we got him in the third round after getting Mayo in the first, I thought they were both going to be longtime starters. He is a very talented, he just hasn't been able to stay healthy. I heard he has bulked up quite a bit, I would be thrilled to see him get on the field. He really is key for us I believe, we were at our best when we had a lot of bodies at LB we could rotate in and out and having an athlete like Crable coming off the edge would be such a plus.

I really don't have any faith in Adalius anymore, but if he is on the roster when the season starts and he at least shows something that would be huge too. We have some talent at linebacker, there are just guys who can't stay healthy like Crable and guys who don't produce like Adalius. I don't want to give up on him yet but I don't know what I could possibly expect from him. He hasn't really showed anything since his first year here.

ElectricEye
04-26-2010, 09:54 AM
Check the discussion thread ;)

Don Vito
04-26-2010, 09:56 AM
Yup, nice timing right? What a disappointment.

FlyingElvis
04-26-2010, 10:56 AM
I've heard good things about Crable lately. I put him on the depth chart, but I could really see him getting cut. This is it for him this year. No more second chances or "injuries" If he isn't ready to play for us now, he's done here.

Also, I really can't say enough about how this draft improves our mental toughness. When you've got a good locker room core, that's not something you really talk about to this extent, but we've lost that lately. We drafted players who were legitimate cogs in championship football teams. All of these guys know how to win and like to do it. I don't think the players we've brought in lately really get that. There were times last year where our we really gave up, mostly on defense. The playoff game last year sticks out. We really didn't fight back much after they went up early and then when we got some momentum it was too late.

Totally on board with all of this. That is really the biggest reason I like the Spikes pick. The kid is more athletic version of Ted Johnson and that's fine by me. Hopefully he'll prove he can hold his own in some coverage and stay on the field. Spikes has major "steal" potential as a very late second round pick - especially if he can be the playmaker in the pros that he was in college. He should definitely bring back the attitude that our LB core has been missing.


Crable making a splash would really be awesome. The 3rd year is the make or break for the OLB converts so I'll keep my fingers crossed. Let's hope Thomas being cut is an indicator that BB thinks we at least have his replacement on the roster.

ElectricEye
04-26-2010, 10:58 AM
Yeah, hopefully Spikes works out. If he does, he has the ability to make the entire defense around him play better.

descendency
04-26-2010, 06:46 PM
The problem is still at five technique. I love the picks but I see nothing at end or wide receiver. Taylor price wasn't that good at the senior bowl. Good te picks in gkow and Hernandez. The ol needs a bit of a bump.

I think allow of the picks have potential to make the roster until the later half of the draft.

Bigburt63
04-26-2010, 07:30 PM
I am willing to bet quite a bit that Arrington makes the roster this year. Kid was a fiend on special teams last year. He led the team in ST tackles, and only played in half of the games. I think Wheatley and/or Springs could be cut.

ElectricEye
04-26-2010, 07:48 PM
I am willing to bet quite a bit that Arrington makes the roster this year. Kid was a fiend on special teams last year. He led the team in ST tackles, and only played in half of the games. I think Wheatley and/or Springs could be cut.

Probably both. Springs didn't even look that great when he did play.

proshoota25
04-26-2010, 11:43 PM
well we know the reason why hernandez fell to the fourth. apparently he has failed various drug tests. heard this on NESN.

ElectricEye
04-27-2010, 06:59 AM
Confirmed.
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/news/story?id=5138749