The Official G-Men 2011 NFL Draft Thread

[OSUGiants17]

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<3

[BaLLiN]

I just dont see Miller as the top 5 talent people are saying he is right now, he has little to no passrushing moves and relies almost solely on his athleticism in that aspect of his game. His zone coverage is good, diagnosis of plays is pretty good, but youve got to love his ability to close in a hurry. I think he lands around 11 like OSU inferred.

Martez Wilson is really growing on me, and BBD i dont see him lasting to the 3rd, more like around our 2nd. He is an athletic linebacker who has the speed and athleticism, leadership qualities, and even pretty good ballskills. He may be better suited at OLB for us, but he is a good overall linebacker and easily an improvement. With the way we are, i dont know if he'll be playing next season though...

Since theres little to no way right now for us to get Miller, who has been the guy ive wanted since his stock looked like it was near the second round, i wouldnt mind this at all:

1.(trade back pickup a 3rd) Marcus Cannon OL
2. Martez Wilson LB
3a. Shane Vereen RB
3b. Luke Stocker TE
4. Jurrel Casey DT
6. TJ Yates QB
7. ST

[LonghornsLegend]

Boley actually played SAM for us this year, not WILL. That's why Boley didn't make as many impact plays, his job was essentially to chase the TE all year.

But when you think about it, it worked. Bc this was the first year in a long long time that I can't remember us getting killed by the TE. Boley did a great job in his role.

He really did. I kept an eye on him when I saw any Giants games and he was healthy, because I remembered Falcons fans being so enamored with him at one point. He guarded Witten better then I saw anyone do all season long, and he really didn't need help with him either. It doesn't always show up when you have him doing stuff like that but he's an incredible athlete and if he can take the TE away without help it gives you a ton of flexibility with the rest of the guys.

[bigbluedefense]

I just dont see Miller as the top 5 talent people are saying he is right now, he has little to no passrushing moves and relies almost solely on his athleticism in that aspect of his game. His zone coverage is good, diagnosis of plays is pretty good, but youve got to love his ability to close in a hurry. I think he lands around 11 like OSU inferred.

Martez Wilson is really growing on me, and BBD i dont see him lasting to the 3rd, more like around our 2nd. He is an athletic linebacker who has the speed and athleticism, leadership qualities, and even pretty good ballskills. He may be better suited at OLB for us, but he is a good overall linebacker and easily an improvement. With the way we are, i dont know if he'll be playing next season though...

Since theres little to no way right now for us to get Miller, who has been the guy ive wanted since his stock looked like it was near the second round, i wouldnt mind this at all:

1.(trade back pickup a 3rd) Marcus Cannon OL
2. Martez Wilson LB
3a. Shane Vereen RB
3b. Luke Stocker TE
4. Jurrel Casey DT
6. TJ Yates QB
7. ST

Martez intrigues me. He's got the body, he's a physical freak, but i'm not sure if you can teach motor and instincts. It's a scary proposition. Right now I don't know how I feel about him.

I agree on Miller, I don't really see him as a 3-4 LB, I feel like teams are going to try to manufacture him into one, but who knows. We'll see where he falls, crazier things have happened.

How's Marcus Cannon?

He really did. I kept an eye on him when I saw any Giants games and he was healthy, because I remembered Falcons fans being so enamored with him at one point. He guarded Witten better then I saw anyone do all season long, and he really didn't need help with him either. It doesn't always show up when you have him doing stuff like that but he's an incredible athlete and if he can take the TE away without help it gives you a ton of flexibility with the rest of the guys.

I think Boley's coverage abilities are a big reason why we were able to blitz Rolle so much on passing downs. Boley is actually a very good blitzer too, but Fewell tends to favor blitzing the same guy over and over from different spots, he doesn't mix it up that much in terms of who's coming.

Which is shame considering who we have on defense, but it is what it is.

The frustrating part of Boley is the 2 years he's been here, he hasn't been healthy. When he's healthy he's a beast, when he's not he looks like just a good coverage LB. Hopefully these injuries are just a fluke and not a recurring pattern.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Wow, I'm away for a week or so (work and more work) and we have all these good discussions and exchange of ideas here! A point I want to add is the benefit of having all these 3-4 teams in the NFL now, which means that 4-3 defensive personnel will drop a round or two throughout the draft, we need to capitalize on this! For example, WILL Backers are going to drop like flies: Adrian Moten Maryland, Lawrence Wilson UCONN, Michael Morgan Southern California, these players I like very much.

We need to build quality depth.

Big Blue Defense, I agree 100% and feel the same way, building through the draft is the way, you get to mold these young guys and incorporate them into your respective systems without the built in egos and bad habits.

[bigbluedefense]

Wow, I'm away for a week or so (work and more work) and we have all these good discussions and exchange of ideas here! A point I want to add is the benefit of having all these 3-4 teams in the NFL now, which means that 4-3 defensive personnel will drop a round or two throughout the draft, we need to capitalize on this! For example, WILL Backers are going to drop like flies: Adrian Moten Maryland, Lawrence Wilson UCONN, Michael Morgan Southern California, these players I like very much.

We need to build quality depth.

Big Blue Defense, I agree 100% and feel the same way, building through the draft is the way, you get to mold these young guys and incorporate them into your respective systems without the built in egos and bad habits.

Speaking of falling 4-3 specific talent, as much as I ripped Nevis in the past, he's starting to intrigue me in the 2nd if he's there.

What are the chances though?

[Giantsfan1080]

Nevis is good. I don't know why you threw him under the bus because of one game. He's exactly the type of DT that Reese looks for as well. He'd be a good replacement for Cofield.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Speaking of falling 4-3 specific talent, as much as I ripped Nevis in the past, he's starting to intrigue me in the 2nd if he's there.

What are the chances though?

Hey man he can drop cause I doubt 3-4 teams think he can handle the 5 tech position; however, I think there are more well rounded DTs with upside than him. Besides the top 2 Dts (fairley and Dareaus) and I personally have 7 Dts ahead of Nevis on my precombine board. I think he's at his best as a 3rd Dt;a rotational player. Im not that high on him, I like DTs that can anchor, and can potentially start in the future.

I wouldn't be surprised he dropped to the 3rd round or further.


Can't wait for the combine!

[Giantsfan1080]

I'm fine with Liuget also that Scott gave us in the mock today.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Liuget is going to fly up the draftboards, I hope that he's a available for us at 19th. The guy is former wrestler in HS, so his hand to hand combat in the trenches are good, for a 300lber he anchors very well and has a great motor for an interior linemen. He's a very intriguing prospect, only a junior so he has alot of upside.

[scottyboy]

as much as I like what I've read on Liuget, I feel we're in prime position to grab an OT and there will be plenty of DT talent come round 2 ala Nevis/Ballard

[bigbluedefense]

I want a linebacker dammit! :)

I want Irving or Foster. That's going to require a 2nd round pick most likely. Which means if we want a DT, we either have to wait until the 3rd, or take one in the 1st.

If we take one in the 1st, we're losing out on an OT. If we reach for a LB in the 1st and take a Nevis in the 2nd, then we don't address the oline at all.

Aaah, i'm so confuzzled.

I want a linebacker though. Hell, I want 2 of em. We've been passing up on linebackers for far too long.

[bigbluedefense]

Seriously though, we need linebackers. The temptation to pass on a linebacker happens every year, bc quite frankly, it's easy to think a Nevis, a Carimi, etc will impact the team more and trench players are always a good thing, but we've passed on linebackers for far too long.

We need some linebackers. I know we have oline issues too, so I don't mind Cam in the 1st, but we need linebackers. I'm hoping Irving's stock doesn't skyrocket bc he needs to be there in the 2nd for us.

If not, I'm desperate enough for LB upgrades that I would reach for one in the 1st. We need linebackers. I can't emphasize that enough.

[Giantsfan1080]

There is no LB I want in the 1st round this year. I'm the one who first brought up LB as a big need for the team but I don't see anyone in the draft that early that's going to make a difference. Let's hope we get lucky in the 2nd or 3rd and we find a stud there.

[bigbluedefense]

We pick late in the 2nd though. I see Irving and Foster being taken before we pick in the 2nd. I want an impact linebacker, I feel those 2 guys give us our best shot at getting an impact guy.

We can gamble on the other guys, but we've been gambling on later round linebackers long enough. I'm just tired of it.

[Giantsfan1080]

I'm trying to wait until after the Combine to really start getting a read on these players especially the LB's. I want a super athletic LB if we do take one.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm trying to wait until after the Combine to really start getting a read on these players especially the LB's. I want a super athletic LB if we do take one.

Bruce Carter is probably your guy then. What scares me about Carter is, his instincts are suspect, and he doesn't wrap up as well as you'd like.

He's probably going to run a solid 4.6 though if he's all healed up.

[DOMINATEtheline]

I want a linebacker dammit! :)

I want Irving or Foster. That's going to require a 2nd round pick most likely. Which means if we want a DT, we either have to wait until the 3rd, or take one in the 1st.

If we take one in the 1st, we're losing out on an OT. If we reach for a LB in the 1st and take a Nevis in the 2nd, then we don't address the oline at all.

Aaah, i'm so confuzzled.

I want a linebacker though. Hell, I want 2 of em. We've been passing up on linebackers for far too long.


I understand your frustrations! Last year I wanted Navorro Bowman, the year before it was Rey Maualuga and in 08 it was Tavares Gooden Miami. I cant even get mad no more...I just look at other positions...

[bigbluedefense]

I understand your frustrations! Last year I wanted Navorro Bowman, the year before it was Rey Maualuga and in 08 it was Tavares Gooden Miami. I cant even get mad no more...I just look at other positions...

I heard if Nicks wasn't on the board, we were gonna take Rey with our 1st rounder that year.

I can't say I'm upset with Nicks though. That was obviously a great pick. I just feel like our lb core outside of Boley is just so mediocre, we need to plug in some young, quick, good tackling, physical talent to that core for us to take the next step.

I'm watching Sound FX on NFL network the other day, and I'm listening to the Packers LBs (Clay in particular) calling out the plays and lining guys up, and being vocal out there, and I can't help but think we're missing that on our defense.

We need some fiery linebackers to add some nastiness and leadership to this defense.

[DOMINATEtheline]

I heard if Nicks wasn't on the board, we were gonna take Rey with our 1st rounder that year.

I can't say I'm upset with Nicks though. That was obviously a great pick. I just feel like our lb core outside of Boley is just so mediocre, we need to plug in some young, quick, good tackling, physical talent to that core for us to take the next step.

I'm watching Sound FX on NFL network the other day, and I'm listening to the Packers LBs (Clay in particular) calling out the plays and lining guys up, and being vocal out there, and I can't help but think we're missing that on our defense.

We need some fiery linebackers to add some nastiness and leadership to this defense.


BBD,
VERY CRUCIAL STATEMENT "some nastiness and leadership to this defense" I think after we check out all the athletic abilities, combine numbers and tape of our potential defensive picks we SERIOUSLY need to look into the "intangibles" cause this defense needs these type of players ASAP!
Thats the reason I'm been high on Foster, Liguet, Burney and other players of this ilk- Passionate, intense, high motor/energy, flies to the ball are all attributes that they have in common.

[bigbluedefense]

BBD,
VERY CRUCIAL STATEMENT "some nastiness and leadership to this defense" I think after we check out all the athletic abilities, combine numbers and tape of our potential defensive picks we SERIOUSLY need to look into the "intangibles" cause this defense needs these type of players ASAP!
Thats the reason I'm been high on Foster, Liguet, Burney and other players of this ilk- Passionate, intense, high motor/energy, flies to the ball are all attributes that they have in common.

You can throw Irving's name into that hat supposedly as well. Sounds like he's a fiery passionate guy too.

We desperately need that.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Irving, most definitively is a MUST! Passionate, intense, high motor/energy, flies to the ball in common terms but I personally REFER to them as HUNTERS!!! WE NEED HUNTERS! LOL

[Forenci]

Like I said before in this thread, Irving is supposed to blow up the combine with his numbers. I recall a few weeks ago JBond (Shane P. Hallam) mocked us Nate Irving in the first based on the idea he would take the combine by storm. I'm starting to think it's not as crazy as I first thought it was.

[bigbluedefense]

If his measurables do blow away the combine, then I have no problem at all taking him in the 1st.

He's a gamer, if his measurables support his production, I see no reason why we should pass up on him.

[scottyboy]

wait, wait, wait...

bbd, you like linebackers?

[bigbluedefense]

You know what I really like? Linebackers from Rutgers.

Speaking of which, wtf Schiano, get some linebackers.

[scottyboy]

I KNOW RIGHT!?!?

actually, just wait, Steve Beauharnis, who will be a junior next year, is an ANIMAL. My favorite player on RU. He is a beast on the inside. So good. I'd cream if we waited and got him to be our future MIKE.

Lowery isn't bad, a good run stuffer, but that's really about it. I hope he gets drafted, but he probably won't.

Damn, we don't have too many LB'ers.

[Giantsfan1080]

Abreu is a big dissapointment but he has one year left to change that. Beauharnais is a real good Mike.

[OSUGiants17]

My Big Board:
1. Von Miller, LB
2. Gabe Carimi, OT
3. Stephen Paea, DT

I say we go with the best one we can get out of those 3

[Malaka]

I honestly don't know why a lot of mocks have been giving us a DT in the first; I know that Cofield is probably gone, but Canty is decent, and I like the potential of Linval Joseph. I abolutely abhor the idea of Liuget in the first. The only DT worth the number 19 pick, if he is even there, is Paea I think he can be an excellent UT next to Linval who would be the NT obviously with Canty and Bernard providing rotational freshness.

On another note, does anyone like the idea of Kyle Rudolph in the 2nd? I know we don't use tight ends much, but is that because of Boss (the definition of mediocrity). I like Boss he is a hardworker, but I tink those big hits have got to him, and he is no longer the security blanket he once was for Eli. I feel like it is time we give Eli a weapon that makes safeties and linebackers fret. Rudolph has excellent speed and was dynamic with Clausen, I do not know how great his blocking is, I am guessing not great, but he does have the size (6'5 265) to improve in that aspect, and our coaches have already done the same thing with Boss with his blocking.

Furthermore, whose your favorite linebacker right now? It seems there are no viable options for us in round one right now, but there seems to be a plethora of options in the second, not to mention Casey Matthews in the 3rd. From Mason Foster (IMO the top 4-3 LB, excluding Von Miller), Bruce Carter (very athletic), Martez Wilson (don't know too much about him), Nate Irving (apparently the heart of the NC state defense), Kelvin Sheppard (who intrigues me, great size I wouldn't mind him), and Quan Sturvidant (another who I don't know too much about, but from the minimal tape I have watched didn't look to great in coverage). I think it would be extremely beneficial to us if we traded back, but I doubt Jerry does it.



My Mock:
1. Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin
2. Kyle Rudolph TE Notre Dame
3. Casey Matthews LB Oregon
4. Ronald Johnson WR/KR USC
5. Brandon Fusco C Slippery Rock
6. Curtis Marsh CB Utah St.
7. John Clay RB Wisconsin

1. Well Carimi seems to be our consensus favorite OT, and I agree I see him as a potential LT and at worst an RT, he seems to fit the Giants' OL mold.

2. Kyle Rudolph gives the Giants that other dimension on offense, which I think is missing somewhat in part because of the coordinator but also in part because of the players we have there. We need someone to be a safety blanket for Eli as well, and Boss has contracted the dropsies.

3. Casey Matthews is our LB pick, I like his fire, and he is quite athletic, with an NFL weight room he can bulk up, and with NFL coaching his wild play can be straightened out. I feel he is being a bit overrated right now, but I think he is definitely worth a 3rd rounder.

4. We go back to USC for a WR, but this time more or less for his return abilities. Ronald Johnson is like Steve Smith lite, at first he would be utilized in the return game but if a contract can't be worked out with Smith we might be able to develop Johnson into a lesser version of Smith. Although, I doubt an obliteration of our WR corp. will happen twice in a row that episode during the season really showed we do need some depth behind our first 4 guys.

5. If you look at Reese's draft tendencies he seems to like smaller school guys in the later rounds, and Slippery Rock definitely qualifies. Fusco could be a developmental OG/C developing alongside Petrus. He has excellent size at 6'5 and 305 pounds.

6. Utah St. nets us another small school guy in Curtis Marsh. I have no idea why he is so underrated right now he has excellent size and speed, he is a perfect nickel guy with fluid hips, and might even potentially be a #1 or #2 guy. He is raw though, but thankfully he can wait a bit with Webster, Thomas, Ross, and even Bruce Johnson too.

7. I guess this last pick is depends on who Reese believes its more valuable, if thats Jacobs then it won't be Clay, but I feel Reese values Bradshaw more (though I could be wrong) so Clay is a big brusing RB like Jacobs, and could do a number of things just as a 7th round pick which is why I like Clay here. For instance, he can pressure Jacobs into performing harder, he can be a decent goalline option (32 TDs in 2 years, and for some reason Jacobs sucks in short yardage), and he can eventually be a cheap replacement for Mr. Jacobs should we choose to trade away his big mouth.

[bigbluedefense]

Fusco is an interesting prospect. We don't have a 5th though, traded it away for Rosencopter.

I'm not a huge Casey Matthews fan honestly. I need to see more of him, I like his energy, but let's not confuse him with Clay. He's probably one of the more overrated prospects bc of his bloodlines right now.

I do think however he has potential to be very good. You can't ignore that family tree at the end of the day, that family knows how to play football. And who knows, maybe he borrows some HGH from Clay and gets athletic.

[Malaka]

Ah, forgot about the 5th, I don't think I'd change any other part of my mock though with or without Fusco although I do like him potentially in the 4th maybe O'Dowd is there too.

I definitely acknowledge that Clay is a bit overrated but I do think his value is that of a early/mid 3rd rounder, and thats exactly where we would select him. I like his ponential he might not be uber athletic like Clay but he's no generic lunch pail white guy either. He plays a little too aggressive sometimes and overpursues, but we're one of the better teams and developing talent I think if he can succeed anywhere in the NFL it could be with us. Besides, he technically can play any of the 3 LB spots; Boley being the only one who'd I consider above average and he can play either WILL or SAM. Since Clay is young we can mold him into whatever we feel he is best, and I am one who believes he can bulk up and play the middle.

[BigBlueNorwegian]

I've been studying some of the prospects you guys talk about in here on Youtube(not the best way to get information, but the only way I can from Europe), and I was fortunate enough to get to see almost everything from the senior bowl on NFL network. Just wanted to chime in with my thoughts:

1. Von Miller is a BEAST! I would jizz all over the place if the Giants got him, but realistically, it's going to cost too much to trade up into the top 5-8 to get him. Jerry Reese always likes to stay put in the first round as well.

2. Of the OT's, I like Carimi and Tyron Smith the most. Carimi seems to be a pretty safe pick, because he would at worst be a very good RT. Tyron Smith is the closest thing to a Star LT prospect in this years class(I don't like Solder very much), but he probably will need some time to be ready. We already experienced that with Beatty, so I'd rather have Carimi given the choice between the two of them.

3. I think we should go hard after Mason Foster in round two. If he's still there in round two, then trade up with our 4th to get him. He looks,speaks and acts like a linebacker. We really need some leadership in our LB corps, because it doesn't seem like Goff has the leadership skills required to be the vocal LB leader. Don't get me wrong, i really liked Goffs performance this year, but he's not a "rah rah" guy. This is something I really value in my linebackers personally.

4. I think we should wait until the third round to get some depth at DT. Cofield will probably walk in FA, but we should get by with a rotation of Canty/Bernard/Joseph/FA or rookie on run downs. On passing downs, we probably will use one of our DE's as a DT, so we should be good there without using a high pick on a DT.

5. with our 6th or 7th round pick i would like to see a KR/PR specialist. Enough with the crappy Special teams. Get me a blazing fast returner who actually has some balance and vision. I know Hixon will be back this year, but he had a torn ACL, and who knows how well he'll be able to cut after that.

I think this would be an awesome draft class for us:

1.Gabe Carimi, OT

2.(trade up with 4th if necessary)Mason Foster, LB

3. Best available DT

6. Best available Return specialist

7. Project Interior lineman


Oh, and I almost forgot. If Ryan Kalil hits free agency, SIGN HIM!!!

[Giantsfan1080]

I'm a big LeShoure fan myself. If we could nab him in Round 2 somehow I'd be all for that.

[bigbluedefense]

With the potential DTs and linebackers available in the 2nd, I'm just really weary of spending a 2nd on a RB.

Especially with Murray's stock falling, I can see him available in the 3rd or even the 4th round right now. He's not even a top 5 RB in this class, and realistically, 5 RBs won't go in the first 2 rounds. So the chances of Murray in the 3rd are very realistic if we absolutely need a RB.

[Giantsfan1080]

Murray in the 3rd would be fine with me as well.

[Malaka]

I wouldn't mind a RB or a DT in the draft, but I really think in the first three rounds we need to focus heavily on the O-line and LB as long we get some of those I'll be a happy camper.

However, no Mark Ingram in round one, I like him, but not for us as a 1st rounder. No RBs in round one please. Also, as I said before the only DT I'd take in round 1 is Paea, unless Fairley somehow falls (yeah that isn't happening).

The more I look into Fusco the more I think we should pick him up late to develop alongside Petrus as a Guard/Center. Furthermore, my Curtis Marsh man crush is growing, I think by draft time he could be a 3rd/4th rounder.

[Damix]

Where would you guys rank JPP amongst this years crop of DEs?

[DOMINATEtheline]

Where would you guys rank JPP amongst this years crop of DEs?

Thats an interesting question!

1a Quinn (AHEAD of JPP just cause he's technique wise and football experience wise ahead of JPP, however, both can play 3-4 olb and 4-3 DE and both have high high ceilings)
1b. JPP
2. Jordan
3. Bowers
4. Watt

[scottyboy]

On the subject of rbs I like dion lewis in the 6th. And I cant really comment on jpp since I wasn't high on him as a prospect at all

[DOMINATEtheline]

On the subject of rbs I like dion lewis in the 6th. And I cant really comment on jpp since I wasn't high on him as a prospect at all

Can you give us you're personal assessment of Lewis, could he be a smaller Leshan McCoy? I haven't really looked into him, I'm going to let the combine be barometer for me, however, I know for a fact that he was more productive than McCoy at Pitt.

[scottyboy]

He's kinda small which is his biggest knack but he's a kid who I love based of his play. He doesn't have the ideal body for an NFL back or every down back but his film speaks volumes. Quick, agile with some surprising power. Good kid too. I'm a huge fan of his which coming from me really speaks volumes. He has pretty good hands from what ive seen. He's a gamer

[Malaka]

JPP was a junior when he came out, I feel if he came out as a senior he'd undoubtedly would have been a top 10 pick, and it would be interesting to see where he, Bowers, and Quinn eventually would fall.

[Rosebud]

Where would you guys rank JPP amongst this years crop of DEs?

1. Bowers
2. JPP
3. Quinn

[bigbluedefense]

The only DE I know from this year is Quinn. And Quinn is a stud. I'd take Quinn over JPP most likely.

But I can't imagine I'd have anyone else other than possibly Bowers over him. In fact, I'd probably rate him over Bowers just based off of what I hear about Bowers being a 1 year wonder.

[Rosebud]

The only DE I know from this year is Quinn. And Quinn is a stud. I'd take Quinn over JPP most likely.

But I can't imagine I'd have anyone else other than possibly Bowers over him. In fact, I'd probably rate him over Bowers just based off of what I hear about Bowers being a 1 year wonder.

I dunno bout Bowers being a 1 year wonder, it's not like he was lazy and so underachieved, he just didn't produce big numbers until his last year, JPP and Quinn are just as much 1 year wonders as Bowers. Plus Bowers is the first DE I've seen with the power and burst of Justin Tuck.

[bigbluedefense]

To be fair, JPP has higher upside than both of those guys. Physically, JPP is easily the best of the 3.

But I just love Quinn's technique, how he uses his hands. He reminds me of Ware with less burst.

[Rosebud]

To be fair, JPP has higher upside than both of those guys. Physically, JPP is easily the best of the 3.

But I just love Quinn's technique, how he uses his hands. He reminds me of Ware with less burst.

Fair enough, I just love Bowers' bullrush and he's got the quickness to make counters inside if guys can stop his bullrush. He's really like Tuck in a lot of ways but a little less ogrishly strong and a little quicker and more explosive.

Quinn can rush the passer, but I feel like Bowers is a much better interior pass rush, is better at beating a Tackle back inside and has a big advantage at breaking up the running game behind the LOS.

I only listed JPP, Bowers and Quinn since IMO they've all got the potential to be All-Pro's at DE and can become just dominant forces, but IMO Bowers is the best bet to become an elite DE, JPP has the highest upside and great work ethic so he's not risky, just will take time, and Quinn to me is risky. Will his hands remain as effective against guys who can snap out their punch much faster and more powerfully than the college schlubs that Quinn beat up on, is he going to slow down when he bulks up and is his head on straight? Plus I think both Bowers and JPP are better at using leverage at this point. JPP's gotten a lot better at it over the past year and Bowers is just the best of the three in this respect.

EDIT:
I look at it as who's best between Tuck (Bowers), Mario (JPP) and Peppers (Quinn), one has the most talent, one is the most physical and overwhelming and Peppers has the talent and technique to dominate if his ****'s together.

[bigbluedefense]

I wonder what happens to Allen Bailey. I think with all the dline talent this year Bailey might wind up being a late 2nd or 3rd round pick.

I don't think I want him as of right now. He can't play DT. He tried. He failed. He seems like a complete idiot that just won't figure out how to transition from athlete to football player.

[BaLLiN]

Trade(receive late 1st/2nd and 3rd for 19)
1. Marcus Cannon
2b. Martez Wilson
3a. Luke Stocker
3b. Jerrell Powe
4. Noel Devine
6. ?
7. ST

[Malaka]

I think Noel Devine's stock is going to dip a bit more before the draft if he's there in 3rd or especially if he's there in the 4th we should pick him up as a scat back/3D Rb/ returnman. So pretty much Like a McCluster type role if Kildrive can handle that.

[DOMINATEtheline]

He's kinda small which is his biggest knack but he's a kid who I love based of his play. He doesn't have the ideal body for an NFL back or every down back but his film speaks volumes. Quick, agile with some surprising power. Good kid too. I'm a huge fan of his which coming from me really speaks volumes. He has pretty good hands from what ive seen. He's a gamer


Sounds good, but can he contribute in our return game from day 1? If so what type of returner can he be? Average? Above average or elite?

Thanks in advance

[scottyboy]

I'm not sure he ever returned at Pitt that's a good point. I feel like he could though. I just really like this kid and think he's a true gamer. He probably could return kicks, but I'm being an optimist and hoping hixon comes back and is back to his old self

[bigbluedefense]

Not a huge Devine fan. I'd spend a 5th on him at earliest, which we don't have, so I'd only look at him in the 6th and beyond.

And I doubt he's still on the board at that point.

I wouldn't mind us getting Sproles in FA though. Great STer who can be insurance to Bradshaw. I wouldn't mind that.

[Malaka]

Not a huge Devine fan. I'd spend a 5th on him at earliest, which we don't have, so I'd only look at him in the 6th and beyond.

And I doubt he's still on the board at that point.

I wouldn't mind us getting Sproles in FA though. Great STer who can be insurance to Bradshaw. I wouldn't mind that.

That's interesting, I think Devine has way more potential than Sproles and would cost a fraction of what Sproles would. Again, I feel Devine could be used as scatback and a returner, and if he is there in the 3rd we need him.

It'll be interesting to see who we end up with in FA. Jerry Reese always makes a few signings, whether they be big ones like Canty, Boley and Rolle, or even the smaller ones who end up making an impact on the team like Kawika Mitchell, and Sammy Knight.

[bigbluedefense]

It wouldn't shock me if we go after AJ Hawk. I'd be ok with it, I'd prefer to draft a guy, but I wouldn't hate the idea of Hawk on the Giants.

[bigbluedefense]

Maaan, I'm digging Gabe Carimi big time again. I honestly think he can play LT for us. If he can play LT we'd have a oline of

LT Carimi
LG Petrus
C ?
RG Snee
RT Diehl

long term. that would make me a happy camper. then hopefully Foster or Irving in round 2 and I'd do cartwheels in my living room.

[OSUGiants17]

Mikel LeShoure is starting to become my dream round 2 pick, if he falls that far we can't pass on him. Him and Bradshaw would be scary together

[bigbluedefense]

I dunno...I just hate taking RBs so early. I want linebackers and olinemen.

[DOMINATEtheline]

[QUOTE=OSUGiants17;2532747]Mikel LeShoure is starting to become my dream round 2 pick, if he falls that far we can't pass on him. Him and Bradshaw would be scary

If there is ever a time to not follow rbs are a "dime a dozen" this is the one! I still can't believe Leshoure is not getting the "love" he deserves, we talking a big 230lb back with light feet and above average hands and only a junior (very little carries on him). If he is there at our 2nd pick, we need to pull the trigger. Other than that, give me Orlando Franklin there!

[bigbluedefense]

It wouldn't surprise me if LeShoure goes before Ingram.

He'll test better at the combine, and his stock will skyrocket. I think he's the first RB off the board, and Ingram is going to be a steal for someone else.

Ingram is still better than him. He just won't test as well.

[DOMINATEtheline]

i don't know, I have a feeling that Ingram will be nicked up often in the NFL, he's going to get hit alot, because of his lack of elusiveness presents a good target for defenders to unload. He has had minor injuries already in the college. Also, look at the difference from his sophomore yr to junior yr in production. I'm not that high on Ingram, maybe he surprises me.

[bigbluedefense]

They said the same thing about Adrian Peterson.

Ingram will be a beast. He's a bigger stronger Ray Rice. I'm not advocating we take either one, I'm just not a fan of taking RBs early bc I feel you can find RBs later, but I do like Ingram quite a bit as a player.

[Giantsfan1080]

I've been high on LeShoure for a long time already. Probably about midway through the college year. I think he is going to end up in the last 1st though which would make me pass. I'll start to formulate a better list after the combine based on who I think will be around when we pick.

[bigbluedefense]

The linebacker 40 times are my main focus of this combine.

[bigbluedefense]

I still think value wise, Gabe Carimi is most likely our best option at 19.

I would personally reach for a LB if Foster and Irving both won't be available in the 2nd for us, but let's hope both are there on the board.

A draft of

1. Carimi
2. Irving
3. Best available Center/pass rushing DT

would be a dream scenario for me.

[scottyboy]

They said the same thing about Adrian Peterson.

Ingram will be a beast. He's a bigger stronger Ray Rice. I'm not advocating we take either one, I'm just not a fan of taking RBs early bc I feel you can find RBs later, but I do like Ingram quite a bit as a player.

But his thighs aren't as juicy and he is not as good as raymell baby. Good day...I SAID GOOD DAY

[Bostonblows91]

Hm, at this point i would be happy at #19 with Harris, ingram, carimi, smith(not likely now) or ayers. I'll admit last year i raged when JPP was selected over derrick morgan. Oh well.

Edit: 21 reps for solder on the bench press, i really hope the G-men don't take a shot on him.

[bigbluedefense]

Couple of questions for the board.

1. If Allen Bailey is on the board in round 3, which may become a possibility, do we consider drafting him and moving him back to DT? He's 285 lbs, he can definitely pack on 15 lbs and learn to become a penetrating UT.

I love his measurables, but I'm not sure if he's a guy who will ever put it together. The guy bounced from position to position bc his coaches couldn't figure out how to take advantage of his athleticism. He's probably just a complete moron. It's not like he hasn't played football, he just can't put it together.

But his athleticism intrigues you.

2. Thoughts on Ras I Dowling as a safety? He could be another round 3 option.

3. Is Marvin Austin worth taking a later round risk on?

[Rosebud]

1. No, seems unteachable, unless he interviews really well and learns how to get out of his stance quicker by individual workouts.
2. Yes, while I'd rather we focus on a true Safety who could fill in in either spot I do think Ras-I will be a good FS a la a poor man's Antrel Rolle.
3. No, just doesn't have a motor, like at all, not even a small ****** one that usually misfires but occasionally works.

[bigbluedefense]

What if he's there in the 6th?

And can someone explain to me why Akeem Ayers is being mocked so high?

[Rosebud]

There's gotta be some small school NT who just doesn't know how to play the game at all who'd I'm much rather blow a 6th rounder on than Marvin Austin, can't give you a name for this draft, but those guys are in every draft. I just have zero faith in Austin to ever make an impact or start working hard enough to be useful.

[BaLLiN]

I'm really liking Leshoure and Ingram right now, guys that can do it all and are hard nosed. Bradshaw is elusive and quick, not straightlined fast, but he could be a good receiving threat and breaks alot of tackles, he still isnt the greatest blocker and gets too fancy.

[Big_Pete]

I am thinking Wisniewski is an excellent fit. Coughlin has already mentioned center is a priority position this offseason.

[Bostonblows91]

I am thinking Wisniewski is an excellent fit. Coughlin has already mentioned center is a priority position this offseason.

I feel like picking him at 19 would be a pretty big reach. He won't be there in round 2 either

[Big_Pete]

I feel like picking him at 19 would be a pretty big reach. He won't be there in round 2 either

I am thinking it will need either a trade back in the first or a trade up in the second.

[BaLLiN]

I feel like picking him at 19 would be a pretty big reach. He won't be there in round 2 either

Yeah, I agree 100%. I feel like he'll be near our second round pick though just because center is an undervalued position in the draft usually and how he is nowhere near the prospect that Maurkice Pouncey, Alex Mack, or Nick Mangold (and even Ryan Kalil who went in the second) were when they went in the first. He's on the ground way too often

[OSUGiants17]

Thoughts on C Ryan Bartholomew from 'Cuse?

[bigbluedefense]

I'm an O'Dowd fan. Have been all season. He has the frame of Pouncey, great strength, a fast 40, and production on Saturdays.

Would love for him to fall to us in the 2nd.

[touchdownmaker]

Well, I have to think that Martez just leaped over Ayers. I hope Martez is there when we pick. A lot of people see him as an OLB or a ILB in the 3-4. I don't know why. I think he is big enough to play the Mike in a 4-3.

As for Dowling, Mayock has him as a top cover corner, if he can show out at his workouts. I am all in on Dowling in the third. He adds depth at CB and S.

I am begining to think that we should trade down if Martez, Carimi, and Constanzo are off the board.

[bigbluedefense]

Well, I have to think that Martez just leaped over Ayers. I hope Martez is there when we pick. A lot of people see him as an OLB or a ILB in the 3-4. I don't know why. I think he is big enough to play the Mike in a 4-3.

As for Dowling, Mayock has him as a top cover corner, if he can show out at his workouts. I am all in on Dowling in the third. He adds depth at CB and S.

I am begining to think that we should trade down if Martez, Carimi, and Constanzo are off the board.

I don't want Martez. Way too stiff in the hips, he has no business playing any LB position in a 4-3 scheme.

My manlove for Von Miller has come back. Let's bring that sexy beast to the Giants.

[OSUGiants17]

If Von slips out of the top 10 we need to jump on him. If we can come away with him this draft is an auto-win. Reese can draft well in the late rounds so giving up a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd for Houston's first would not hurt us that badly.

[Forenci]

No way Von slips out of the top 10. I'd be surprised if he made it at out of the top 5 after destroying the combine.

O'Dowd is interesting though. He did quite a few bench reps for a guy who hasn't shown himself to be very strong at the point of attack on tape. I'm still weary of his injuries. The last thing we need is another (current day) O'Hara getting injured half the season every year.

[OSUGiants17]

If Jimmy Smith somehow drops to 19 I say we take him

[BaLLiN]

No way Von slips out of the top 10. I'd be surprised if he made it at out of the top 5 after destroying the combine.

O'Dowd is interesting though. He did quite a few bench reps for a guy who hasn't shown himself to be very strong at the point of attack on tape. I'm still weary of his injuries. The last thing we need is another (current day) O'Hara getting injured half the season every year.

I think he could, he's not really a 3-4 LB due to lack of passrush moves and how he is more adept versus the run when he isn't forced to take on blockers. I still think Arizona and San Fran are the only two teams in the top 10 that would target him.

[bigbluedefense]

Na. Realistically Von is a top 10 pick, no way he drops out of the top 10.

In good news though, I think Mason Foster has a legit chance of being there in the 2nd for us. As will Nate Irving.

We will have a great chance of landing a LB in the 2nd. Between Foster, Irving, and Carter, I think we'll get a good guy there.

Now the question becomes, what to do with our first? Do we address Center? BPA? LT?

What Center prospects will be there in the 3rd? I don't think O'Dowd would be there in the 3rd.

[Bostonblows91]

If Jimmy Smith somehow drops to 19 I say we take him

It would be interesting, but i really don't think he suits fewell's D right now. Better off taking a guy that excels more in zone coverage IMO.

[bigbluedefense]

I checked Mason Foster out during the combine drills...I dunno.

He's not overly fast (4.7 40), and during drills he looked a little stiff. Of the limited highlight reels I've seen of him, he seemed solid, he didn't wow me but he seemed solid.

I'm starting to wonder if he's being overrated. The forum seems a lot higher on him than guys like Mayock are. I'm leaning towards Mayock on this one. He doesn't seem all that special to me.

I need to see more of him. I catch myself doing the same thing I tried doing last year with McClain, I'm trying to sell myself on a guy when my eyes tell me otherwise.

I gotta check out more Nate Irving too. Disappointed that he wasn't there at the combine.

[Rosebud]

No way Von slips out of the top 10. I'd be surprised if he made it at out of the top 5 after destroying the combine.

O'Dowd is interesting though. He did quite a few bench reps for a guy who hasn't shown himself to be very strong at the point of attack on tape. I'm still weary of his injuries. The last thing we need is another (current day) O'Hara getting injured half the season every year.

Is that really such a bad thing if that's the worst case scenario? I mean Koets has already looked solid and already is one year removed from that knee injury. So even if O'Dowd can't shake those injuries an O'Dowd/Koets partnership could still be wonderful.

[Forenci]

Is that really such a bad thing if that's the worst case scenario? I mean Koets has already looked solid and already is one year removed from that knee injury. So even if O'Dowd can't shake those injuries an O'Dowd/Koets partnership could still be wonderful.

That's a fair point, however, I still wouldn't feel comfortable spending a second round pick on O'Dowd for that reason. Basically, we'd have an injury prone center and a center coming off a knee injury. Not something you really want at one position.

[bigbluedefense]

O'Dowd might be there in the 3rd.

You assume only 1 center goes in the 1st. I'd also assume that at most 2 centers go in the 2nd. Is it possible only 1 goes in the 2nd? I think so.

I think most have the Penn State kid and Pouncey ahead of him. Couple that with his injury history, and it's realistic for him to be there in the 3rd.

Late 3rd? Probably not. But if he slips into the 3rd perhaps we make a trade to move up to get him?

[Forenci]

It's possible he makes it to the third, but I would surmise it to be unlikely. Teams seem to understand the value of a good center these days. After left tackle it's probably the most important position on the offensive line.

[OSUGiants17]

Am I the only one who would like to see us take Jimmy Smith if he falls to 19?

[Bostonblows91]

Am I the only one who would like to see us take Jimmy Smith if he falls to 19?

IMO jimmy smith really tanked his stock today. He ran a nice 40 and then looked like he had hips of stone in the drills. I'm really not sold on smith, i like brandon harris more.

Edit: i also read jimmy smith tested positive (for marijuana probably?) at colorado, and was arrested a few times.

[OSUGiants17]

IMO jimmy smith really tanked his stock today. He ran a nice 40 and then looked like he had hips of stone in the drills. I'm really not sold on smith, i like Brandon Harris more.

Edit: i also read jimmy smith tested positive at Colorado, and was arrested a few times.
yeah I saw the drills and his hips are worse then I thought, definitely not worth our round 1 pick

[Bostonblows91]

yeah I saw the drills and his hips are worse then I thought, definitely not worth our round 1 pick

agreed. Same goes for solder. Check out brandon harris though, i think he's getting kind of underrated for some reason.

[OSUGiants17]

agreed. Same goes for solder. Check out brandon harris though, i think he's getting kind of underrated for some reason.

I like Harris and he will be a solid corner, but I don't want him at #19. Jimmy Smith was looking like a monster at the combine until the drills yesterday where his hips looked terrible and looked like the value would be too good to pass up, but not anymore.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Am I the only one who would like to see us take Jimmy Smith if he falls to 19?

I think he will be better playing safety at the next level. I just don't see how he can turn and run with Wrs in the NFL. The only way he gets drafted to play CB if its a strictly bump and run defensive scheme. I rather take Buster Skrine from Chattanooga or Justin Rogers from Richmond (3rd round or later), good upside and can contribute on our return game immediately.

[bigbluedefense]

Smith supposedly has some character concerns that worry you as well. I'm not sure if I'm down for Smith.

I rather go after the best available DT if we're gonna ignore oline and linebacker in the 1st.

I'm starting to check out these DTs in more detail bc it seems like LB is a position we'll go after in round 2. Wanna scout some DTs.

[DOMINATEtheline]

I checked Mason Foster out during the combine drills...I dunno.

He's not overly fast (4.7 40), and during drills he looked a little stiff. Of the limited highlight reels I've seen of him, he seemed solid, he didn't wow me but he seemed solid.

I'm starting to wonder if he's being overrated. The forum seems a lot higher on him than guys like Mayock are. I'm leaning towards Mayock on this one. He doesn't seem all that special to me.

I need to see more of him. I catch myself doing the same thing I tried doing last year with McClain, I'm trying to sell myself on a guy when my eyes tell me otherwise.

I gotta check out more Nate Irving too. Disappointed that he wasn't there at the combine.

I must admit my love for Foster has leveled out, he's just a very solid football player, didn't test real well, but the tape shows us that he has the instincts and the high motor to be a productive pro at the next level. Sometimes these solid football players produce at a very high level, it depends on the defensive coordinator and the defensive scheme. I like him as a mid 3rd rounder.

[bigbluedefense]

I must admit my love for Foster has leveled out, he's just a very solid football player, didn't test real well, but the tape shows us that he has the instincts and the high motor to be a productive pro at the next level. Sometimes these solid football players produce at a very high level, it depends on the defensive coordinator and the defensive scheme. I like him as a mid 3rd rounder.

I don't think he's gonna be there in the 3rd. I'd love for him to be there, but I'm not sure.

I think right now, I'm much higher on Nate Irving than I am on Foster. I wanna see Irving's pro day. I really wanted to see Irving do the drills at the combine, I was disappointed we didn't get to see that.

Irving as of right now is my guy. I'm warming up to Bruce Carter too.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Smith supposedly has some character concerns that worry you as well. I'm not sure if I'm down for Smith.

I rather go after the best available DT if we're gonna ignore oline and linebacker in the 1st.

I'm starting to check out these DTs in more detail bc it seems like LB is a position we'll go after in round 2. Wanna scout some DTs.

Good idea! I need a preliminary draft profile for Muhammad Wilkerson, I know his name was floating around as a riser before the combine. But damn this guy tested through the roof. Look at Jarvis Jenkins (superb against the run and with some pass rush potential), I have been very impressed from everything I have seen and how he tested at the combine.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Giantsnation,

Anybody has a draft profile on Wilkerson from Temple? Any thoughts or input?

[TheFinisher]

Don't know how much you guys have discussed this but I'd take a real hard look at Martez Wilson with your 1st.

[bigbluedefense]

Good idea! I need a preliminary draft profile for Muhammad Wilkerson, I know his name was floating around as a riser before the combine. But damn this guy tested through the roof. Look at Jarvis Jenkins (one of the most balanced DTs out there in regards to run defense and pass rush), I have been very impressed from everything I have seen and how he tested at the combine.

A lot of these guys seem to be better 5 techs than inside UTs in a 4-3.

I'm a huge Cameron Heyward fan, I think he's going to be a 2nd round steal for somebody. I know he's also more of a 5 tech, but I wouldn't mind him at all.

I'm checking out Paea right now

[OSUGiants17]

Paea is a stud and if we ignore OL round one he is in my top 3. Von is obviously nothing more than a dream and Im starting to wonder if any other OLB is a round 1 talent. OT is a need, but not sure if we take one round 1 with a deep class where we could get one round 2.

[bigbluedefense]

Don't know how much you guys have discussed this but I'd take a real hard look at Martez Wilson with your 1st.

I'm not a Martez Wilson fan. He has terrible instincts, he's stiff in the hips, doesn't have the violent nature I look for in linebackers, he's just not a 4-3 MIKE at all.

I think he might succeed in a 3-4, but he's going to be a bust if he goes to a 4-3. I don't like him as a football player.

[OSUGiants17]

I'm not a Martez Wilson fan. He has terrible instincts, he's stiff in the hips, doesn't have the violent nature I look for in linebackers, he's just not a 4-3 MIKE at all.

I think he might succeed in a 3-4, but he's going to be a bust if he goes to a 4-3. I don't like him as a football player.

we don't need a MIKE anyway, especially not round 1. We have Goff and Dillard

[bigbluedefense]

we don't need a MIKE anyway, especially not round 1. We have Goff and Dillard

We do need a MIKE. MIKE is actually our biggest need outside of Center. Goff is a guy who won't lose a game for you, but he's not special either. He's a solid player.

But we can surely upgrade that position. The problem is, the only MIKE I see as a viable replacement that's available in this draft is Nate Irving.

Dillard is just like Goff. Just another guy.

We need an impact MIKE for this defense to take the next step.

[OSUGiants17]

See I feel if we give Goff another year as a starter he could become the leader we need on D. If he fails to do so then we look for a MIKE next year

[OSUGiants17]

This years top MIKEs:
M. Wilson
G. Jones
Q. Stuardivant
N. Irving

MIKEs next year:
Vontaze Burfict*
Dont'a Hightower*
Correy Upshaw
Chris Gallipo
Luke Kuechly*(goes to Boston College)
Shayne Skov*
Manti Te'o*
Travis Lewis

so take one this year or wait till next year?

[bigbluedefense]

Eh. Goff is who he is. He's very quiet, I don't expect him to be a rah rah guy. His skills are limited too. The middle of the field was wide open against us all year. All of last year, and all of this year.

The problem is we don't have a MIKE who can cover the deep middle. That's why the post route kills us every time. Teams have exposed us for that for 2 years now.

We will continue to get beat up the middle until we get that MIKE with range.

Defensively, MIKE is our biggest need.

[bigbluedefense]

This years top MIKEs:
M. Wilson
G. Jones
Q. Stuardivant
N. Irving

MIKEs next year:
Vontaze Burfict*
Dont'a Hightower*
Correy Upshaw
Chris Gallipo
Luke Kuechly*(goes to Boston College)
Shayne Skov*
Manti Te'o*
Travis Lewis

so take one this year or wait till next year?

You can't really go by that. You can't just assume you'll land someone better the following year.

Other needs will pop up. I'm still in favor of BPA throughout this draft, but I would prefer we get Nate Irving if he's on the board in round 2.

[Bostonblows91]

Out of all of these top prospects, the only one i can see falling more than people think is robert quinn, how would you guys feel if we traded up to 11 or 12 to nab him?

[bigbluedefense]

Out of all of these top prospects, the only one i can see falling more than people think is robert quinn, how would you guys feel if we traded up to 11 or 12 to nab him?

Robert Quinn is probably my favorite prospect in this draft outside of Patrick Peterson.

But I'd be very upset if we took him. Bottom line is, we have enough DEs. Even if Kiwi doesn't come back.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Does anyone not really like the idea of Nate Solder? he doesn't look like he's quick enough to handle speed rushers. Marcus Cannon and Gabe Carimi are too more solid guys i feel, especially if we wanted them to play right away. Tyron Smith is prob the only guy who is a LT, but he's skinny and might take awhile to adjust.

We need to trade down because our needs just dont match up with value at all.

IMO Solder is at least 1 year away from starting at the next level! He needs to hit the weight room HARD. DEs at the next level are going to push him into the QB every time if he suits up in 2011.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Out of all of these top prospects, the only one i can see falling more than people think is robert quinn, how would you guys feel if we traded up to 11 or 12 to nab him?

Man, if that happens he's going to make some franchise very happy! If he would of played last year he would of been a top 3 pick... We talking about an elite blue chip defender here! The versatility!! We talking about an elite 3-4 rush olb and a good 4-3 DE at the next level.

[DOMINATEtheline]

[QUOTE=bigbluedefense;2540421]I don't think he's gonna be there in the 3rd. I'd love for him to be there, but I'm not sure.

I think right now, I'm much higher on Nate Irving than I am on Foster. I wanna see Irving's pro day. I really wanted to see Irving do the drills at the combine, I was disappointed we didn't get to see that.

Irving as of right now is my guy. I'm warming up to Bruce Carter too.[/QUOTE
4.



LBS I'm very interested in and provide some of physical tools I want:
1.Irving
2.Carter
3.Wilson
4.Molden- my personal sleeper
5.Hougue

Give one of these guys and I'll be happy.

I really would like to sign Lawson or Anderson for SLB and draft another OLB. Imagine getting Carter and letting him redshirt for a year and have him ready for 2012. What you think?

[BaLLiN]

Dream Offseason:

DRAFT-
1. Tyron Smith LT
2. Bruce Carter LB
3. Luke Stocker TE
5. Mario Fannin RB/FB
6. Adrian Moten LB
7. TJ Yates QB

FREE AGENCY-
Sign: Eric Foster, Tanard Jackson, AJ Hawk
Resign: Bradshaw, Smith, Tollefson
Tag: Kiwanuka
Let Walk: Cofield, Boss, Michael Johnson, Blackburn, Boothe
Trade: No one unless Jacobs wants to leave

[OSUGiants17]

Dream Offseason:

DRAFT-
1. Tyron Smith LT
2. Bruce Carter LB
3. Luke Stocker TE
5. Mario Fannin RB/FB
6. Adrian Moten LB
7. TJ Yates QB

FREE AGENCY-
Sign: Eric Foster, Tanard Jackson, AJ Hawk
Resign: Bradshaw, Smith, Tollefson
Tag: Kiwanuka
Let Walk: Cofield, Boss, Michael Johnson, Blackburn, Boothe
Trade: No one unless Jacobs wants to leave
why re-sign Tolley if we are gonna tag Kiwi and keep him? No need for Kiwi with JPP and Tolley. If we tag him it would be so we could trade him for picks or players.

[BaLLiN]

why re-sign Tolley if we are gonna tag Kiwi and keep him? No need for Kiwi with JPP and Tolley. If we tag him it would be so we could trade him for picks or players.

Well the tag is more to use for a trade, but we could still keep him. Tollefson is a special teams ace, he's worth keeping.

[Bostonblows91]

The tag deadline was last week anyway.

[bigbluedefense]

[QUOTE=bigbluedefense;2540421]I don't think he's gonna be there in the 3rd. I'd love for him to be there, but I'm not sure.

I think right now, I'm much higher on Nate Irving than I am on Foster. I wanna see Irving's pro day. I really wanted to see Irving do the drills at the combine, I was disappointed we didn't get to see that.

Irving as of right now is my guy. I'm warming up to Bruce Carter too.[/QUOTE
4.



LBS I'm very interested in and provide some of physical tools I want:
1.Irving
2.Carter
3.Wilson
4.Molden- my personal sleeper
5.Hougue

Give one of these guys and I'll be happy.

I really would like to sign Lawson or Anderson for SLB and draft another OLB. Imagine getting Carter and letting him redshirt for a year and have him ready for 2012. What you think?

Lawson is gonna yield some decent money. I rather just draft a guy at this point. We just need to start drafting linebackers earlier.

I feel like Drake Nevis is going to slip in this draft. Now while I'm not the biggest Nevis fan, he is starting to intrigue me as a 2nd round or later prospect.

I'm not sure how I feel about Liuget yet. I really like Cameron Heyward.

Paea scares me with those short arms. He does profile better in a 4-3 though, but right now his stock is too high. I rather have Heyward 1 round later.

[Giantsfan1080]

Liuget and Nevis fit what we do the best. They are perfect replacements for Cofield.

[bigbluedefense]

Liuget seems more like a run stuffer than a pass rusher to me, at least from the little I've seen so far. He seems more suited for a 2 gap scheme where he can use those long arms to engage, read and react to the gap.

He doesn't seem that quick either. I gotta check out the combine numbers of some of these guys.

[Giantsfan1080]

I don't care much about combine speed numbers for DT's.

[bigbluedefense]

I don't care much about combine speed numbers for DT's.

I'm more concerned about arm length, height and weight.

I think that's important.

[Giantsfan1080]

I'm more concerned about arm length, height and weight.

I think that's important.

Yeah that certainly is.

Liuget was 6'2 298 33 1/4 arms all around DT to me plays run and pass really well.

Nevis was 6'1 294 31 1/2 arms.

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah that certainly is.

Liuget was 6'2 298 33 1/4 arms all around DT to me plays run and pass really well.

Nevis was 6'1 294 31 1/2 arms.

I gotta see more of Liuget. I just feel Nevis is a much superior pass rusher right now, and I think that's what I'm looking for in a DT right now. We have our anchor in Joseph, we need that guy who can create some interior push on passing downs and our nickel packages when it could be pass or run.

So I'm looking at a more pure disruptor. Paea could be another guy who fits this bill.

I'm looking for speed. A guy who gets off the snap quick, and can penetrate.

[Rosebud]

I gotta see more of Liuget. I just feel Nevis is a much superior pass rusher right now, and I think that's what I'm looking for in a DT right now. We have our anchor in Joseph, we need that guy who can create some interior push on passing downs and our nickel packages when it could be pass or run.

So I'm looking at a more pure disruptor. Paea could be another guy who fits this bill.

I'm looking for speed. A guy who gets off the snap quick, and can penetrate.

You should check out Paea then, dude's remarkable at getting off the line and causing a ruckus.

[bigbluedefense]

You should check out Paea then, dude's remarkable at getting off the line and causing a ruckus.

He is. But those arms. Those arms scare me. He looks like a Trex.

[Bostonblows91]

After hearing wes bunting say "Talked to a scout earlier who told me #Colorado CB Jimmy Smith is a great talent, but could fall due to "on the field character concerns." Smith may be an option in round 2, stranger things have happened.

[Rosebud]

He is. But those arms. Those arms scare me. He looks like a Trex.

They're not that short...

[Bostonblows91]

Word is jacobs is willing to restructure, if that's the case you can scratch RB off our round 2 check list IMO

[BaLLiN]

Jurrell Casey reminds me a bit of Brian Price

[bigbluedefense]

They're not that short...

They're short. The thing is, why go after Paea in the 1st when you can get Nevis in the 2nd? If we're gonna go after a quick penetrating guy with short arms, we can wait a round to get one.

I'm not sure if Paea is worth the 1st round investment over a Nevis, who probably can be had in the 2nd.

I gotta see more of Paea.

Word is jacobs is willing to restructure, if that's the case you can scratch RB off our round 2 check list IMO

We also signed Ware to an extension. So it seems like if we're going RB, it won't be until round 4 at earliest.

I don't mind it, I don't think Jacobs was the problem. I like Jacobs, I'm probably his biggest supporter here. The problem is the oline.

[Bostonblows91]

You can count me as someone who doesn't want to see Paea in round 1 for us as well, from what i hear he's had constant injuries. Not to mention players who rise in stock this late usually end up doing just about nothing, because people just fall in love with the 49 bench reps etc.

[bigbluedefense]

His bench reps were overblown too, he wasn't locking his elbows on any rep.

I'm just not sure about him. I love his motor, and he does penetrate at the college level. But I'm just not sure how he translates to the NFL yet. I need to see more of him.

[bigbluedefense]

Mayock's top 5 doesn't have O'Dowd or Nate Irving. Nate isn't top 5 for OLB or ILB.

Makes me wonder if he's going to slip in the draft, perhaps to round 3?

I'd love for him to slip, bc then we can go after Gabe in round 1, and O'Dowd in round 2, then Nate in round 3. Or perhaps gamble on O'Dowd being there in round 3 and getting Nate in round 2.

One thing is for sure, I'm not going to be happy if we get Martez Wilson. I don't want any part of him. He's extremely mediocre.

[bigbluedefense]

I forgot about Nevis too. I think Nevis is a legit round 2 possibility.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if we trade our 1st this year for a 1st next year. Next year's draft will be better than this one. Having 2 1st rounders next year would be bad ass.

[bigbluedefense]

Anyone know anything about Rashad Carmichael?

[Giantsfan1080]

He has a black first name and an Irish last name. They aren't to be trusted in the NFL so pass.

[bigbluedefense]

True. I hate Cortland Finnegan.

[BaLLiN]

(Trade Back)1. Marcus Cannon RT
2. Drake Nevis DT
3a. Bruce Carter OLB
3b. Shane Vereen RB
(most likely have to trade up using 4th for one of them)
6. Mario Fannin RB/FB
7. Buster Skrine CB

Roster:

QB: Eli, Sage, ?
RB: Bradshaw, Jacobs, Vereen, DJ Ware
FB: Bear Pascoe, Mario Fannin
TE: Kevin Boss, Travis Beckum
WR:Nicks, Smith, Mario, Plax, Hagan, Cruz/Thomas

LT: Shawn Andrews, William Beatty
LG: David Diehl, Rich Seubert
C: Adam Koets, Rich Seubert
RG: Chris Snee, Mitch Petrus
RT: Kareem McKenzie, Marcus Cannon

DE:Tuck, Osi, JPP, Tollefson, ?
DT: Canty, Cofield, Joseph, Nevis
SLB: Bruce Carter, Clint Sintim, Zak DeOssie, Adrian Tracy
MLB: David Harris*, Jonathan Goff, Phillip Dillard
OLB: Michael Boley, Gerris Wilkinson

CB: Webster, Thomas, Ross, Bruce Johnson, Buster Skrine
FS: Antrel Rolle, Tanard Jackson
SS: Kenny Phillips, Deon Grant

K: Tynes
P: Gaylord Focker

Thats 55 players tho...

[bigbluedefense]

If we're going RT with our first pick, I rather just stay home and get Carimi to be honest.

Ive been on the Carimi bandwagon for awhile now and I don't think I'm getting off of it. He just makes the most sense if we stay home and pick 19.

Gabe has been my favorite OT of this draft since the day I started checking them out. I think he can play LT. But at worst, he'll be a stud RT.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm gonna throw some names out there that intrigue me as potential guys with our 1st round pick.

Gabe Carimi: No explanation needed really. I've been on his bandwagon forever. Most say he's a RT, I think he can play LT. Regardless, I think he's great value and addresses a need. He fits our style of olinemen to a T as well.

Muhammad Wilkerson: This guy is growing on me. He has elite athleticism, and he plays smart. You can tell this guy is a good smart football player, and let's not underestimate how important that is for a DT. He's huge, has long arms, is athletic, but what I like the most about him is his recognition skills. He knows when it's screen, he knows when it's a draw, he knows when its a run or a pass, he knows how to fire gaps and when to hold his anchor, the guy is just a smart football player. Versatile too. He's growing on me quite a bit. He lacks the first step that I want in an explosive 3 tech, but I think he makes up for it with the rest of his game. He's more of a 5 tech than a 3 tech, but I think he can work well inside if he had to. Reminds me of Canty in terms of build. Needs to play with better leverage though. I want to see better punch too.

Cameron Heyward: Another guy who I've been high on for awhile. I just love his athleticism, and think he's a dominant player. Again, more of a 5 tech than a 3, but I think we can plug him in and he would do damage. Long arms, great strength/speed combo, and when he's on, he's unstoppable. He can dominate games. He's a better pass rusher than Wilkerson. And just as scheme diverse. Not an ideal fit just like Wilkerson, but the quality of the player is quite high. I'm big on this guy.

Corey Liugett: I continue to gather info on this guy, I'm not done yet with him. He seems like more of a run stuffer than a pass rusher. More of a 2 gap guy. I hear that he's a prototype 3 tech, so I want to see more. I don't see the pass rush out of him though that I want. He could be one of those solid but never spectacular DTs in the NFL. Again, I need to see more.

Stephen Paea: This guy might be my favorite 3 tech in the draft. He has the first step I want, he has the functional strength I want, he has the motor, the leverage, he has everything I want in a 3 tech outside of prototype size (a little undersized). BUT, the only only thing that scares me are those arms. Those arms scare me. I've always been a fan of long arms on dlinemen, and he doesn't have them. I love his game though. I wouldn't mind at all if we got him, I'm just a little nervous about those arms.

Brandon Harris: CBs are like DEs, you can never have enough of them. In today's league of 4 and 5 WR sets, having a deep CB group is essential. Also, let's note that CWeb is getting closer to 30, Ross is going to be a FA soon and probably won't be back, which can suddenly make a solid CB group look weak. I think outside of Peterson and Prince, Harris is the best CB in this group. The only thing that scares me is his size, he's only 5 9". But he plays big, he has fluid hips, he can tackle, play zone and man, he can keep up with speed guys, I like his game quite a bit.

Jimmy Smith: For the same reasons as Harris, but I currently don't rank him as high. Here's why. Yes, he has prototype size and speed. The problem is, he's a little stiff, and I'm not too thrilled with his recognition skills. When I see him drop back in zone, I don't see him react to his keys quickly enough. And in man, even though he has great straightline speed, I worry that his hips are stiff and that he can be had with double moves. On top of that, there are concerns about his character and dedication to football. For those reasons, I'm taking Harris over him, but it is hard to ignore the height/weight/speed potential of this guy on paper.

Stefen Wisnewski: Strictly a need pick. He's probably the best C available, and we need a Center if our injuries continue to be a problem. The problem I have with him is, I hate Penn State players. They almost always churn out mediocre NFL players. And I hate Penn State. **** Penn State. The Eagles of college football. And quite honestly, this guy screams mediocre in the NFL, he's your typical Penn State prospect. Average athleticism, he's smart though, which is good. I just don't know about this guy yet.

Thoughts on these guys? Opposing opinions?

[bigbluedefense]

In an unrelated note, Casey Matthews is so overrated he's become underrated. He has great instincts, a high motor, can blitz, good range, he's smart, he's a solid 4-3 LB. He lacks some size though.

Maybe he can borrow some HGH from Clay and become a steal.

[bigbluedefense]

Drake Nevis is growing on me with each passing day as well. Not as a 1st rounder, but as a 2nd round guy.

Great speed, a great pass rusher, great motor, great leverage, he keeps his back straight, but he's a little undersized and has short arms like Paea.

And he can be overwhelmed by strong guys.

[BaLLiN]

I'm gonna throw some names out there that intrigue me as potential guys with our 1st round pick.

Gabe Carimi: No explanation needed really. I've been on his bandwagon forever. Most say he's a RT, I think he can play LT. Regardless, I think he's great value and addresses a need. He fits our style of olinemen to a T as well.

I think Castanzo moreso fits our style of football, but Carimi is one hell of a run blocker, and as far as ive seen he's alright/good at pass pro. The reason why i like Cannon soo much is that he has elite agility, he moves well for a big guy, and he handled JJ Watt a whole game. I don't feel like drafting an LT when david diehl is a good starter, and even if we move him inside whats happening with Beatty? I wish we knew that, would make predicting a whole lot easier.


Muhammad Wilkerson: This guy is growing on me. He has elite athleticism, and he plays smart. You can tell this guy is a good smart football player, and let's not underestimate how important that is for a DT. He's huge, has long arms, is athletic, but what I like the most about him is his recognition skills. He knows when it's screen, he knows when it's a draw, he knows when its a run or a pass, he knows how to fire gaps and when to hold his anchor, the guy is just a smart football player. Versatile too. He's growing on me quite a bit. He lacks the first step that I want in an explosive 3 tech, but I think he makes up for it with the rest of his game. He's more of a 5 tech than a 3 tech, but I think he can work well inside if he had to. Reminds me of Canty in terms of build. Needs to play with better leverage though. I want to see better punch too.

That's fine by me, we've got our freaks on the outside, if he's the pick i won't be upset, I need to look up on him some more...

Cameron Heyward: Another guy who I've been high on for awhile. I just love his athleticism, and think he's a dominant player. Again, more of a 5 tech than a 3, but I think we can plug him in and he would do damage. Long arms, great strength/speed combo, and when he's on, he's unstoppable. He can dominate games. He's a better pass rusher than Wilkerson. And just as scheme diverse. Not an ideal fit just like Wilkerson, but the quality of the player is quite high. I'm big on this guy.

You think he'll be there by our pick? Idts

Corey Liugett: I continue to gather info on this guy, I'm not done yet with him. He seems like more of a run stuffer than a pass rusher. More of a 2 gap guy. I hear that he's a prototype 3 tech, so I want to see more. I don't see the pass rush out of him though that I want. He could be one of those solid but never spectacular DTs in the NFL. Again, I need to see more.

He doesn't have a great burst imo, i agree with your solid but never spectacular comment.

Stephen Paea: This guy might be my favorite 3 tech in the draft. He has the first step I want, he has the functional strength I want, he has the motor, the leverage, he has everything I want in a 3 tech outside of prototype size (a little undersized). BUT, the only only thing that scares me are those arms. Those arms scare me. I've always been a fan of long arms on dlinemen, and he doesn't have them. I love his game though. I wouldn't mind at all if we got him, I'm just a little nervous about those arms.

DT's don't really require long long arms, but they dont hurt. Any info on that knee injury he had?

Brandon Harris: CBs are like DEs, you can never have enough of them. In today's league of 4 and 5 WR sets, having a deep CB group is essential. Also, let's note that CWeb is getting closer to 30, Ross is going to be a FA soon and probably won't be back, which can suddenly make a solid CB group look weak. I think outside of Peterson and Prince, Harris is the best CB in this group. The only thing that scares me is his size, he's only 5 9". But he plays big, he has fluid hips, he can tackle, play zone and man, he can keep up with speed guys, I like his game quite a bit.

Im not sold on him, there are plenty of other NB in this draft.


Jimmy Smith: For the same reasons as Harris, but I currently don't rank him as high. Here's why. Yes, he has prototype size and speed. The problem is, he's a little stiff, and I'm not too thrilled with his recognition skills. When I see him drop back in zone, I don't see him react to his keys quickly enough. And in man, even though he has great straightline speed, I worry that his hips are stiff and that he can be had with double moves. On top of that, there are concerns about his character and dedication to football. For those reasons, I'm taking Harris over him, but it is hard to ignore the height/weight/speed potential of this guy on paper.

good assessment, i agree

Stefen Wisnewski: Strictly a need pick. He's probably the best C available, and we need a Center if our injuries continue to be a problem. The problem I have with him is, I hate Penn State players. They almost always churn out mediocre NFL players. And I hate Penn State. **** Penn State. The Eagles of college football. And quite honestly, this guy screams mediocre in the NFL, he's your typical Penn State prospect. Average athleticism, he's smart though, which is good. I just don't know about this guy yet.


Yeah, Its become a trend (specifically with linebackers) these penn state players just seem like bad prospects. He spends sooo much time on the ground, gets out manned, he's a good technician and smart but id rather stick with koets, seubert, or o'hara then drafting him

[BaLLiN]

We should probably draft Dowling, sure he's not the most fluid or fastest of DBs, but he is an excellent tackler and could matchup well with the bigger receivers of the NFC East

[Bostonblows91]

We should probably draft Dowling, sure he's not the most fluid or fastest of DBs, but he is an excellent tackler and could matchup well with the bigger receivers of the NFC East

i'm surprised you don't like harris given your forum name. Every time i read a scouting report on brandon harris the word "baller" always pops up.

[bigbluedefense]

Dowling gets injured putting on his uniform. With our history of injuries, we should probably stay away. I liked him too.

If I had to pick 1 guy right now that I want us to spend our 1st on, I'm torn between Carimi and Paea.

The more I look at this group of Centers, the more I want to just avoid them, or draft 1 in the 4th. This isn't a good draft for Centers.

I feel like anyone we grab won't be any better than Koets, so why bother?

[OSUGiants17]

This draft will be a complete mess, its such a weak class for our needs.

[Bostonblows91]

Dowling gets injured putting on his uniform. With our history of injuries, we should probably stay away. I liked him too.

If I had to pick 1 guy right now that I want us to spend our 1st on, I'm torn between Carimi and Paea.

The more I look at this group of Centers, the more I want to just avoid them, or draft 1 in the 4th. This isn't a good draft for Centers.

I feel like anyone we grab won't be any better than Koets, so why bother?

i don't want paea. Too much risk for picking him at #19. I'd rather have carimi in that scenario

[BaLLiN]

i'm surprised you don't like harris given your forum name. Every time i read a scouting report on brandon harris the word "baller" always pops up.

nah my username was strictly for Osi, im a cane fan but i just dont like harris that much.

[Rosebud]

I'm still hoping for Derrek Sherrod. He can be a beastly road grader on the right side if Beatty takes over on the left side, but unlike Carimi I feel comfortable with the notion of him manning the left side if Beatty does fail. I could see Carimi being a good starting LT, but Sherrod I could see actually being a beast on the left side

[bigbluedefense]

I don't mind Sherrod. I just like Carimi the best. He's my favorite OT in the draft.

I personally think Carimi can play LT.

Mike Pouncey is claiming that he's had interest from 4 different teams, the Giants being one of them, and feels he'll be a late teen/early 20 draft pick.

With the Giants already admitting that Center is a concern...he could be the pick. I admit, I am not a fan of that pick if we make it.

[touchdownmaker]

Yuck! To pick a C/G that early in the draft for a non-beast is not something I would want to do.

I agree there really inst much in this draft for our needs. I would trade down and pick up some pick for next year. I would not be opposed to taking Pea. That kid is strong, has quicks and a motor. He could be a very good UT. Hell he can even be a 2 gap guy as well. I think he could make an impact next year.....if they ever play.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm also in favor of trading our 1st for a 1st next year if the opportunity is there. Especially if Carimi is off the board.

But I highly doubt we do that. It's not Reese's style.

[BaLLiN]

yeah we're interested in mike pouncey.... in the 3rd round

[Bostonblows91]

I'm also in favor of trading our 1st for a 1st next year if the opportunity is there. Especially if Carimi is off the board.

But I highly doubt we do that. It's not Reese's style.

agree with this. #19 this yr for a first next yr + a 2nd this year or something. And i also agree with the pouncey assessment. His brother having such a good year really kind of makes that a scary choice, right in the boat with casey matthews.

[Rosebud]

I don't mind Sherrod. I just like Carimi the best. He's my favorite OT in the draft.

I personally think Carimi can play LT.

Mike Pouncey is claiming that he's had interest from 4 different teams, the Giants being one of them, and feels he'll be a late teen/early 20 draft pick.

With the Giants already admitting that Center is a concern...he could be the pick. I admit, I am not a fan of that pick if we make it.

I like Carimi and agree he could be a good starting LT, but remember how we used to worry every time Diehl lined up against guys like Ware? That's what I'm afraid will happen to Carimi at LT, he'll be smart enough, tough enough and strong enough to manhandle most DEs, but he'll get picked on by the top tier edge guys. I think Sherrod moves better, his feet are quicker and he looks more smooth than Carimi, then again it's been a busy year and I haven't watched more than a couple of games of each one so my high mind might have overblown that. I just love what I see out of Sherrod, he reminds me of a Willie Roaf style LT who'll be a monster in the run game and have the quickness and moves to handle even the best edge guys if he keeps working hard and learning. I really wouldn't complain about either guy and that's frankly what I've been hoping for since before the season even began. I think both dudes would be the best use of our pick since I don't see an elite LB, DT or C that'll be there at 19, a number of guys with a lot of upside, but no one I feel as confident in as I do Sherrod and to a lesser extent Carimi.

Sherrod
Carimi
Paea

is the top 3 on my big board of realistic targets for round one. That said the guy who's intrigued me the most since the season started was O'Dowd and I still would love if we could snag him later in the draft since he's had some really **** luck with his injuries. Plus I like the idea of just going with the workman's comp crew at C of O'Dowd, Koets and Seubert.

[bigbluedefense]

I know this will never happen, but Carimi can be a Shawn Andrews like Guard in the NFL.

If I was a team that already had 2 good OTs and needed an interior guy, I'd draft Carimi, stick him at Guard and let him plow. His only weakness of heavy feet becomes negligible at Guard and he'd be a monster.

For us, I would give him a shot at both OT positions. But I'd mingle with the idea of moving Snee to Center and moving Carimi to RG.

Snee played some center in college.

Move Diehl to RT, Petrus to LG, and hope Beatty pans out at LT and you might have a great oline again.

Realistically though, it wouldn't work nor would they try it. But I just think Carimi makes a lot of sense for us no matter where we throw him.

[BaLLiN]

BBD, not to be a debbie-downer, but that sounds alot like musical offensive linemen. Im all for versatility, but jack of all trades master of none isnt exactly a positive.

[BaLLiN]

Alright so, I was thinking about prospects and whatnot and I really want to know if im alone on this when i say that Anthony Castanzo is just a safe pick that isn't giving us something we already dont have.

When I look for a LT, I want a guy that exceeds what we have, and is a surefire, stalwart player that we can depend upon. Although i believe Castanzo would be consistent, i just believe he'll be consistently okay. I would much rather draft another position if we're just getting that in a position of need.

Tyron Smith is the guy for me, he is a project, and im quite frankly tired of that label with Beatty taking so long to crack the lineup. Right now, there's pretty much no way we get Smith without having to trade up, and with the new rookie contract thing, that'll cost us more than in past years even though its a weak class.

Also Gabe Carimi is not a LT, BBD i know you like him but he is not quick enough to handle guys like Trent Cole. He's a RT, that position isn't a mid-first round value.

(trade down)
2. Martez Wilson OLB/ILB
2. Bruce Carter OLB/ILB
3. Marcus Cannon RT
3. Jurrell Casey UT
4. (traded)
6. Mario Fannin FB/RB
7. Buster Skrine CB/ST

[Malaka]

We really really need to trade down. However, that is just not Jerry Reese's style. So, unfortunately, we're going to be picking someone at 19, and it will be whomever is at the top of Reese's big board.

It wouldn't shock me to see even a Jimmy Smith, Mark Ingram, or Paea/Liuget with the pick. Even though I'd love a LB or OT, I wouldn't mind those guys as they would be much better value than Castonzo in my opinion. I like Carimi a lot, and if Castonzo can be an LT I think Carimi can too.

The only OTs I want to see at 19 are Smith and Carimi. Smith is going to be a monster, I just have a feeling. Whereas Carimi, will give us a solid LT, or an amazing RT to replace McKenzie-- not really what you want out of a 19th overall pick (wasn't Gosder Cherilus also picked at 19? LOL) but it's not awful.

We better start expecting a corner or something because I have a feeling Reese isn't going with an OT.

[Bostonblows91]

Can't really expect the next stud LT at #19, but hey it could happen. I'd be in favor of trading down 10 spots or so, one of the guys they're targeting will probably still be around then. I'd also be in favor of trading up if a top talent dropped far enough, no matter who it is amukamara PP etc. Would be worth it IMO

[ifidel]

Hi all. New to the board here. Few thoughts: 

Last year we went defense five of our seven picks because we were such crap the year before and it needed to be addressed. Three of the five were juniors. This year? I think we go with a mix of offensive and defensive guys with the majority of them being juniors with high upside. I'm almost positive that Ryan Williams (Redshirt Sophmore) will be with us next year.

I don't necessarily agree with the strategy but that's why I'm not a GM. Really enjoy the board fellas.  

[touchdownmaker]

Ballin I agree with you. Costanzo is the safe pick. He will do a solid job, but won't beast on anyone. I also like your idea of trading down, but Martez Wilson won't be there when we pick in the second. I have a feeling he will be gone in the first. A lot of mocks have him going before we pick in the first.


In the general Giants discussion thread, we were talking about WR's. I was wondering what you guys thought of Ricardo Lockette. He could add that extra vertical demension to our pass game. He is a developmental guy, but seems like worth a shot in the 4th or 5th round.

[Bostonblows91]

Ballin I agree with you. Costanzo is the safe pick. He will do a solid job, but won't beast on anyone. I also like your idea of trading down, but Martez Wilson won't be there when we pick in the second. I have a feeling he will be gone in the first. A lot of mocks have him going before we pick in the first.


In the general Giants discussion thread, we were talking about WR's. I was wondering what you guys thought of Ricardo Lockette. He could add that extra vertical demension to our pass game. He is a developmental guy, but seems like worth a shot in the 4th or 5th round.

Castonzo being a beast isn't outta the question IMO, and also how do you figure we don't already have that vertical dimension w/ MM?

[touchdownmaker]

Ty Smith seems like the one of the three most likely to develop into an impact LT. I have read in a few places that Costanzo tends to bend his hips rather than his knees, which end up hurting him in pass pro, and this ends up hurting his quickness against really athletic DE. It is going to be very difficult to kick him of his habit, considering he has been doing it for 54 straight college starts. He is going to have to be coached up. I'm not crapping on him at all. He will deserve to be picked in the mid to late first round. I'm just saying that it appears he is that high ceiling guy. I'm never played the line and never coached it, so I will concede that I am sort of out of my element when it comes to the OL.

As for MM. He does run good seam routes. He doesn't have zone busting 4.3 speed though. He can burn a DB no doubt, but he won't blow the top off the defense. He also doesn't force the defense to roll coverage to his side. Reese doesn't need to draft a WR high, but we do need to think of adding a guy who could develop into an explosive receiver. A fourth or fifth round pick on Lockette seems reasonable to me.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm really warming up to the idea of Mark Ingram. I like him a lot as a player.

And while we can go OT at 19, we don't have to have to go for one. We can always roll the dice on Beatty panning out at LT, Petrus moving to LG, and Diehl moving to RT.

And Koets manning the C spot.

Ingram might be BPA too, I really like him. Again, I'm not saying it should be the pick, but I wouldn't be upset with it at all.

[BaLLiN]

I like Ingram too, but i don't see him as an elite talent, there are many runningbacks like him (maybe not as good) and can be had later.

Someone on here said Ryan Williams, i wouldnt mind it in the 3rd, he didnt do so well this past year so i can see a slip. He has great quickness, gamespeed, and is a competitor. If we did that, we'd probably wind up letting Ahmad go or Trading Jacobs, i don't like either because both of them played well, just not well enough this year

Edit: It might just be me, but i think we're set at RB until theres an elite prospect. We have our 3 backs. Danny Ware has the potential to be what Derrick Ward was for us, a back that can do it all and is a very good one cut back. Ahmad gets too fancy, but it pays off alot, and Jacobs takes awhile to get started, we need a consistent back and from the looks of the signing, the giants must think its Ware

[Orakpowned]

I'm hearing the Giants want to move up to somewhere between picks 6 and 12.

Take it for what it's worth. :)

[Bostonblows91]

I'm hearing the Giants want to move up to somewhere between picks 6 and 12.

Take it for what it's worth. :)

$1 says it'd be for tyron smith. Man what i'd give for us to land PP

[BaLLiN]

Idk about you guys, but that sounds like its for a DT...

Edit: actually it sounds like complete fiction, Jerry Reese trading up? yeah okay..

[BaLLiN]

Trade: Giants give #19,4th, OLB Clint Sintim, and future 1st for #7 (san francisco)

1(7). Marcell Dareus/Nick Fairley DT
2. Marcus Cannon OT
3. Nate Irving ILB
6. Noel Devine RB
6. Mario Fannin FB
6. Adrian Moten OLB
7. Buster Skrine CB/ST

Edit: just exploring the possibility of trading up

[Bostonblows91]

mehhh dareus will definitely not be there at 7, fairly debatable. I'd really like us to grab OL/DB in the 1st and ryan williams in the 2nd, maybe kendrick burney later on if we didn't take a CB later on.

[BaLLiN]

mehhh dareus will definitely not be there at 7, fairly debatable. I'd really like us to grab OL/DB in the 1st and ryan williams in the 2nd, maybe kendrick burney later on if we didn't take a CB later on.

i agree with you, but if he gets past 2 i think its a possibility. I think he's a much better fit for a 4-3 DT then a 3-4 DE.

As for your other comments, i like williams but with the down year he had id wait a round.

[BaLLiN]

anyone think the trade up could be for Von Miller?

[BigBlueNorwegian]

anyone think the trade up could be for Von Miller?

I think that could be a real possibility, yes. If the Bills and the Cardinals both pass on Miller, it is plausible to believe that we could trade up with either the 49ers or the Titans. I would personally love to get Miller in this draft!

[Rosebud]

anyone think the trade up could be for Von Miller?

That's kinda what's becoming my dream scenario. I'd still love to see us nab Sherrod, but if we could trade up for Miller I'd do it. Hell I'd hit up Buffalo to see whether our first this year and next plus a 3rd could make this happen. If we could pair Miller and Boley outside of Goff our LB would suddenly become beastly with a sick nickel backer duo. That leaves us with a 2nd to snag either another DT or give O'Dowd a shot.

[Bostonblows91]

That's kinda what's becoming my dream scenario. I'd still love to see us nab Sherrod, but if we could trade up for Miller I'd do it. Hell I'd hit up Buffalo to see whether our first this year and next plus a 3rd could make this happen. If we could pair Miller and Boley outside of Goff our LB would suddenly become beastly with a sick nickel backer duo. That leaves us with a 2nd to snag either another DT or give O'Dowd a shot.

i think they'd want more from us than that. Probably 1,2,3 this yr and 1 next yr. PP would still be my dream scenario over miller. Although i'd be very happy with miller too.

[bigbluedefense]

I can't envision seeing us move up for him. It would cost too much, and it's just not in Reese's nature to do so.

I tell you what, if Patrick Peterson starts slipping, I'd actually be in favor of moving up for him instead of Miller.

[bigbluedefense]

Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris? Who would you go with?

I like both of them a lot, I'm warming up to Smith after initially being sour on him. And I've always liked Harris.

Right now if I had to choose I'd go Harris bc I love his fluidity, but Smith is growing on me.

[Nebula]

Not a fan of Smith for the Giants. He will not always play press coverage in our scheme which takes away from his strength and skill set. He will be asked to read routes and play zone coverage a lot more.

Harris is very talented cover guy. Might have some trouble making plays in the ball against bigger receivers that can use their bodies to shield the ball away from him. That's really his only flaw

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah I love Harris's game. I figure he could be a Antoine Winfield.

I love Smith as a press man CB like you said, and I prefer press man CBs bc that's the style of defense I prefer (pressure based, press man coverage), and you figure Fewell won't be here much longer (either leaves with the staff or gets a HC job somewhere) so we wouldn't ignore Smith just for the sake of the system.

Having that said, I feel that Harris can thrive in any system. I really like his game. But Smith's physical gifts are also very intriguing.

If past history indicates anything, we'll prefer Smith to Harris. Ross and Thomas were both big CBs with long arms.

It won't matter though, bc it seems like we're leaning towards oline in the 1st.

[BaLLiN]

Im warming up to Harris, but id much rather go on the line first. DT/OT (or obviously Von Miller) are the only two positions id like to look at.

It would make things alot easier if Beatty is our LT, and if Andrews stays here to be our RT.

Beatty-Diehl-Koets-Snee-Andrews

id love that, but there are alot of if's involved. This would free us up to do that trade up that someone said was rumored.

Trade: #19, #52,6th, and future 2nd

1(8) Von Miller OLB
3. Stephen Paea UT
4. Shane Vereen RB
6. Jake Kirkpatrick C
6. Mario Fannin FB
7. Buster Skrine CB

[touchdownmaker]

I am partial to Jimmy Smith myself. It hard to find corner with his raw gifts in the late rounds of the draft. I also think its hard to find press man corners that low as well. Brandon Harris can ball, no doubt, but he is such divisive corner. I feel his draft stock has improved due to the dearth of first round talent at the position. He smell like an excellent Nickel corner. Top end speed isn't there. His ball skills are just alright. Would I use my 19th pick for that? Nope.


Smith's character concerns and that Georgia game, are the only things that scare me with Smith.

[Big_Pete]

I don't see Jimmy Smith being a good option for NYG. If we want a CB why not trade back and get Aaron Williams? I think he is a better fit than either Smith or Harris.

One dark horse I could see the Giants drafting if he is there in the second round is Danny Watkins. I could see him sliding in LG right away (with Diehl at LT) whilst grooming him as a future Center behind O'Hara and Seubert.
(lets not forget that O'Hara, Seubert and Koets didn't snap in college)

[Bostonblows91]

Im warming up to Harris, but id much rather go on the line first. DT/OT (or obviously Von Miller) are the only two positions id like to look at.

It would make things alot easier if Beatty is our LT, and if Andrews stays here to be our RT.

Beatty-Diehl-Koets-Snee-Andrews

id love that, but there are alot of if's involved. This would free us up to do that trade up that someone said was rumored.

Trade: #19, #52,6th, and future 2nd

1(8) Von Miller OLB
3. Stephen Paea UT
4. Shane Vereen RB
6. Jake Kirkpatrick C
6. Mario Fannin FB
7. Buster Skrine CB

why slot out kareem mckenzie who was one of our best Olinemen this year? Hm i've also done some thinking, probably won't happen but trading back and grabbing kyle rudolph would also be a good move IMO

[touchdownmaker]

Kyle Rudolph.....hell yes. The biggest problem is that Killdrive doesn't throw to the TE. Didn't we pick up a TE a few years ago early in the 2nd round?

Is there anything to all this trading up to get Von Miller business? All logic yells no. Additionally, how could we trade up to get Miller and still have all of our picks.

Another question:
If Bowers falls to where we are, would you be ok with the pick?

[Bostonblows91]

Kyle Rudolph.....hell yes. The biggest problem is that Killdrive doesn't throw to the TE. Didn't we pick up a TE a few years ago early in the 2nd round?

Is there anything to all this trading up to get Von Miller business? All logic yells no. Additionally, how could we trade up to get Miller and still have all of our picks.

Another question:
If Bowers falls to where we are, would you be ok with the pick?

we picked up travis beckum in the back end of the 3rd round a few years back, i don't really see him outperforming boss though. We'd obviously have to trade quite a few picks to get up to miller, consensus is that he won't make it past 5 to the cards, so that's hardly worth talking about anyway. And no i wouldn't want bowers, in the 2nd definitely, the team always says value before need, but i think we have enough DE's for now.

[touchdownmaker]

I was talking about Shockey. It was a poorly worded allusion. We picked him up in the second round, and Rudolph reminds me of him. Not as physical, but very athletic.

I know we picked up Beckum, and I was completely puzzled by the move. They brought him in as an H-back, which I guess is Gilbride speak for screens and check down receiver.

There were two to three better options out there too. Cornelius Ingram, Shawn Nelson were the two I remember most. Zach Miller I believe was also passed up, but he wasn't on my radar.

[Bostonblows91]

I was talking about Shockey. It was a poorly worded allusion. We picked him up in the second round, and Rudolph reminds me of him. Not as physical, but very athletic.

I know we picked up Beckum, and I was completely puzzled by the move. They brought him in as an H-back, which I guess is Gilbride speak for screens and check down receiver.

There were two to three better options out there too. Cornelius Ingram, Shawn Nelson were the two I remember most. Zach Miller I believe was also passed up, but he wasn't on my radar.

we took shockey at 14th overall tho.

[touchdownmaker]

got me there.

[JBCX]

Miller's easily going to be the best defensive player of this entire draft class, imho, but there's no way he falls out of the top 5.

[Bostonblows91]

Miller's easily going to be the best defensive player of this entire draft class, imho, but there's no way he falls out of the top 5.

Bold statement considering fairley/dareus/peterson are all elite defensive prospects. I'd put my money on peterson personally.

[JBCX]

Bold statement considering fairley/dareus/peterson are all elite defensive prospects. I'd put my money on peterson personally.

Fairley has elite physical talents but has huge character concerns and I see alot of lazy in him that will prevent him from realizing his full potential.

Dareus is nothing more than a 2-gap run stuffer with average pass-rushing ability that will turn into a Vonnie Holliday or a Brett Keisel in the NFL.

Peterson will be an elite cornerback but cornerbacks can only do so much to impact a game.

Miller has all of the physical tools to be the next DeMarcus Ware, and he is almost entirely free of character concerns as well. If I were to put money on the most sure-fire prospect in this draft, it'd be him. Plug him in either into a 4-3 as a WLB or a 3-4 as an OLB, and he'll be one of the top 5 players at his position within 2 years in the NFL.

[bigbluedefense]

I'd say Miller, Peterson, and Robert Quinn are the 3 best defensive players in this draft.

Jimmy Smith could put his hat in there if it wasn't for character concerns.

[JBCX]

I'd say Miller, Peterson, and Robert Quinn are the 3 best defensive players in this draft.

Jimmy Smith could put his hat in there if it wasn't for character concerns.

Quinn isn't even close to being on the same level as Miller.

In my opinion, in terms of defensive talent in this draft, it's Miller and Peterson at the top, Miller being a better pick than Peterson simply because 3-4 OLB will do more for you than CB.

After that, it's a drop-off in talent to the likes of Fairley, Dareus, JJ Watt and Justin Houston. Robert Quinn is far below these guys. He lacks elite athleticism as evidenced by his poor combine workouts, and not only that but he racked up his sacks in 2009 against weak competition. Then he missed an entire season of college football.

[bigbluedefense]

Quinn isn't even close to being on the same level as Miller.

In my opinion, in terms of defensive talent in this draft, it's Miller and Peterson at the top, Miller being a better pick than Peterson simply because 3-4 OLB will do more for you than CB.

After that, it's a drop-off in talent to the likes of Fairley, Dareus, JJ Watt and Justin Houston. Robert Quinn is far below these guys. He lacks elite athleticism as evidenced by his poor combine workouts, and not only that but he racked up his sacks in 2009 against weak competition. Then he missed an entire season of college football.

Quinn blew up his pro day. Had a great pro day.

Dez Bryant had a mediocre pro day after being out of football for a year. Look at him now, he's a freak.

Quinn is this year's Dez. The guy is an absolute monster. He's still getting in shape. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Quinn winds up being the better NFL player.

Id give Quinn serious consideration over Von if I was a team who needed a pass rusher.

[bigbluedefense]

As far as Gabe Carimi goes, I'm starting to not love him as much. Ive seen more of him lately, and his feet and hips aren't LT worthy.

In fact, it might not even be RT worthy. At this point, I'm thinking he's definitely not a LT, and he'll be a good RT in the pros. However, I think his absolute best position is RG. I think this guy is Shawn Andrews Part 2. The guy can be an absolute monster RG.

Probably a monster LG too. You take his one weakness, which is heavy feet, and you eliminate it from mattering at Guard. The guy is the best run blocking olinemen ive seen in quite some time, and he's strong as an ox. He'd make an amazing G in the pros.

Now we obviously have plenty of Guards, so you question whether we should take him at all. We'd probably make him a RT, and I'd be ok with that. I still like him a lot, but after watching more of him and Castonzo, I no longer view Carimi as a better prospect.

I think they're equal as prospects. Castonzo is a LT. He'll be a solid but not spectacular one, but he'll be an LT. Gabe is either a RT or G. So while I love Gabe more as a player, his upside is more limited. So it really depends what you're looking for.

Me? I'd still choose Gabe over Castonzo. But I'll understand if we took Castonzo. Gabe is limited. More versatile, yes, but limited upside.

Truth be told, if our staff does their homework on Jimmy Smith and they feel his character concerns can be managed, then he should be the pick.

Jimmy Smith is clearly BPA at 19.

[JBCX]

Quinn blew up his pro day. Had a great pro day.

Dez Bryant had a mediocre pro day after being out of football for a year. Look at him now, he's a freak.

Quinn is this year's Dez. The guy is an absolute monster. He's still getting in shape. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Quinn winds up being the better NFL player.

Id give Quinn serious consideration over Von if I was a team who needed a pass rusher.

Fact of the matter is, Von Miller blew up all of the drills at the combine important to pass-rushers. Quinn sucked at them. I don't trust Pro Days nearly as much as the Combine for the important VJ/BJ/SS times for pass rushers. And even more importantly, Miller played last year and dominated beter competition than Quinn ever faced in his one decent year at UNC.

If he's still "getting into shape" at this time of the year, what was he doing earlier with all of that free time while he was suspended?

I guarantee you that Miller will be 10x the player that Quinn will be in the NFL. I don't see anything in Quinn that suggests to me anything more than a slightly above-average player. Miller has the potential to be the next DeMarcus Ware.

[bigbluedefense]

Fact of the matter is, Von Miller blew up all of the drills at the combine important to pass-rushers. Quinn sucked at them. I don't trust Pro Days nearly as much as the Combine for the important VJ/BJ/SS times for pass rushers. And even more importantly, Miller played last year and dominated beter competition than Quinn ever faced in his one decent year at UNC.

If he's still "getting into shape" at this time of the year, what was he doing earlier with all of that free time while he was suspended?

I guarantee you that Miller will be 10x the player that Quinn will be in the NFL. I don't see anything in Quinn that suggests to me anything more than a slightly above-average player. Miller has the potential to be the next DeMarcus Ware.

Believe me, I love me some Von Miller. But to be fair, Von could also be the next Aaron Maybin.

He's a raw gifted athlete who is far from a finished product. I love the guy, but he's not a guarantee to succeed. I'd bet on him becoming a great player, but I wouldn't expect immediate results.

Quinn is more polished, and I think you're underrating his athleticism and ability. The guy is a very good football player.

[JBCX]

Believe me, I love me some Von Miller. But to be fair, Von could also be the next Aaron Maybin.

He's a raw gifted athlete who is far from a finished product. I love the guy, but he's not a guarantee to succeed. I'd bet on him becoming a great player, but I wouldn't expect immediate results.

Quinn is more polished, and I think you're underrating his athleticism and ability. The guy is a very good football player.

The numbers don't lie, my friend.

Robert Quinn: 34" VJ, 09'08" BJ, 4.40s SS
Von Miller: 37" VJ, 10'06" BJ, 4.06s SS

There are few, if any, elite pass rushers in the NFL today with a SS time of greater than 4.30sec who don't also have an elite Vertical Jump (38"+) and elite Broad Jump (10'+)

With a mediocre 4.40s Short Shuttle time, and average VJ/BJ, Quinn demonstrates only average athleticism and is a risk to be drafted as a pass rusher if you pay attention to any historical trends. I repeat, few, if any pass rushers succeed in the NFL with mediocre VJ/BJ/SS numbers. Take a look at my thread that I started in the general draft forum about this topic.

Von Miller, on the other hand, has some of the best numbers at these drills for 3-4 OLBs / 4-3 DEs since this guy named DeMarcus Ware in 2005:

DeMarcus Ware: 38.5" VJ, 10'02" BJ, 4.07s SS

And then tie in the fact that Miller played more games in college, against better competition than Quinn, and I don't see how you can possibly rate Quinn as a better pass rusher prospect.

[Bostonblows91]

Fairley has elite physical talents but has huge character concerns and I see alot of lazy in him that will prevent him from realizing his full potential.

Dareus is nothing more than a 2-gap run stuffer with average pass-rushing ability that will turn into a Vonnie Holliday or a Brett Keisel in the NFL.

Peterson will be an elite cornerback but cornerbacks can only do so much to impact a game.

Miller has all of the physical tools to be the next DeMarcus Ware, and he is almost entirely free of character concerns as well. If I were to put money on the most sure-fire prospect in this draft, it'd be him. Plug him in either into a 4-3 as a WLB or a 3-4 as an OLB, and he'll be one of the top 5 players at his position within 2 years in the NFL.

can't believe this. So you expect him to be ELITE, hanging around revis and asomugha, a guy who shuts down half the field and you believe he doesn't stack up to von miller? As for your robert quinn debate, i think you're being a bit ignorant. The only reason he's not in contention to be the #1 overall pick is because he didn't play this year in fact, a guy sat out the whole year and is still being talked about in the top 10...what does that say...also can't believe you just used combine measurables to form an argument that miller is a superior player. That said i like miller...but i'm not about to go and hand him DROY right now.

[JBCX]

can't believe this. So you expect him to be ELITE, hanging around revis and asomugha, a guy who shuts down half the field and you believe he doesn't stack up to von miller? As for your robert quinn debate, i think you're being a bit ignorant. The only reason he's not in contention to be the #1 overall pick is because he didn't play this year in fact, a guy sat out the whole year and is still being talked about in the top 10...what does that say...also can't believe you just used combine measurables to form an argument that miller is a superior player. That said i like miller...but i'm not about to go and hand him DROY right now.

How am *I* being ignorant about Robert Quinn when I'm bringing up facts about his lack of competition, his lack of playing time, the deficiency of his workout numbers, and all you guys can point to is this vague notion that he's a "beast"?

Whether you want to face the facts or not, combine workouts matter for DEs and 3-4 OLBs, alot. I went through the numbers for all of the elite NFL pass rushers in the game today and few, if any, do not have either elite VJ and BJ, or elite SS/3-Cone, or both. Check it out yourself in my other thread:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46722

[Bostonblows91]

How am *I* being ignorant about Robert Quinn when I'm bringing up facts about his lack of competition, his lack of playing time, the deficiency of his workout numbers, and all you guys can point to is this vague notion that he's a "beast"?

Whether you want to face the facts or not, combine workouts matter for DEs and 3-4 OLBs, alot. I went through the numbers for all of the elite NFL pass rushers in the game today and few, if any, do not have either elite VJ and BJ, or elite SS/3-Cone, or both. Check it out yourself in my other thread:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46722

lack of competition..? It's not like miller is playing in the SEC. I put just about 0 stock into combine numbers, did you also have the same argument for vernon gholston? And as i said before...quinn got a stupid suspension, evaluate him by his 09' numbers and you're talking about a top 3 pick. I'm not saying oh hey quinn will be way better than miller, i'm saying miller isn't THAT good to completely discredit every other elite defensive prospect in this draft.

[bigbluedefense]

Your argument against Quinn is his combine #s.

Yet you're ignoring the fact that his combine #s will clearly not be up to par with everyone else bc he didn't play football for a year.

Quinn is a great athlete. Many speculate he could have been a top 2 pick this year if he played.

I'm not saying Von is worse, I love Von. But Quinn is no scrub. In a 4-3 defense, I'll take Quinn over Von 10 out of 10 times.

In a 3-4, it's up for debate. I'd probably go with Von, but Quinn would be a great consolation prize.

[bigbluedefense]

As for the Giants, since none of that is relevant to the Giants, I'm all aboard the Jimmy Smith bandwagon.

If his character checks out and he's there at 19, he's clearly BPA. I say we take him if we feel comfortable with his character.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

As for the Giants, since none of that is relevant to the Giants, I'm all aboard the Jimmy Smith bandwagon.

If his character checks out and he's there at 19, he's clearly BPA. I say we take him if we feel comfortable with his character.

Another damn defensive player in the first round? I swear, you'd think we would have the most amazing defense ever since we keep fixating on defense. Nicks has been the only offensive player drafted in the first round in 6 years!!! No more damn defense! I like BPA.. but god I hope it's an offensive player. Ok, I got that off my chest!

[bigbluedefense]

Another damn defensive player in the first round? I swear, you'd think we would have the most amazing defense ever since we keep fixating on defense. Nicks has been the only offensive player drafted in the first round in 6 years!!! No more damn defense! I like BPA.. but god I hope it's an offensive player. Ok, I got that off my chest!

defense wins championships! :)

Let me ask you something. Bc you'll know as a coach. Mike Pouncey intrigues me. The guy is a physical wonder, he is just as athletic as his brother who is a PBer.

The guy played dline, then went to LG and shifted to Center last year. He struggled snapping the ball but improved as the season went on and was very good at blocking.

Now if you're the Giants with our 1st round pick...do you pass bc of his snapping issues, or do you find that to be a very correctable flaw?

Also, I need to note that I cannot comment on how well he can adjust protections and call audibles. What's your thoughts?

The more I think about it, the more I feel that maybe with a TC worth of snapping practice, he can correct his one flaw, and he'd be a good player.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

defense wins championships! :)

Let me ask you something. Bc you'll know as a coach. Mike Pouncey intrigues me. The guy is a physical wonder, he is just as athletic as his brother who is a PBer.

The guy played dline, then went to LG and shifted to Center last year. He struggled snapping the ball but improved as the season went on and was very good at blocking.

Now if you're the Giants with our 1st round pick...do you pass bc of his snapping issues, or do you find that to be a very correctable flaw?

Also, I need to note that I cannot comment on how well he can adjust protections and call audibles. What's your thoughts?

The more I think about it, the more I feel that maybe with a TC worth of snapping practice, he can correct his one flaw, and he'd be a good player.



Yes, I supposed they do.. However, for that to work you need a consistent, and capable DC. Not the musical chairs show we put on what seems yearly now...

Lewis
Spags
Sheridan
Fewell

I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves next year for a HCing job, especially if teams keep interviewing him to fulfill the Rooney rule.

If he is a good prospect and worthy by our staff as a first rounder, and a good talent, and if he is there, then I'd draft him. Snapping is a fixable problem. That's why this sport has position coaches, and training camp. Also, we have one of the best OL coach in the business. So I am not worried about that. If he is as good as people say, then I wouldn't hesitate to draft him.

[bigbluedefense]

Yes, I supposed they do.. However, for that to work you need a consistent, and capable DC. Not the musical chairs show we put on what seems yearly now...

Lewis
Spags
Sheridan
Fewell

I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves next year for a HCing job, especially if teams keep interviewing him to fulfill the Rooney rule.

If he is a good prospect and worthy by our staff as a first rounder, and a good talent, and if he is there, then I'd draft him. Snapping is a fixable problem. That's why this sport has position coaches, and training camp. Also, we have one of the best OL coach in the business. So I am not worried about that. If he is as good as people say, then I wouldn't hesitate to draft him.

Ok, this is my follow up question then. In this scenario that you just described, Pouncey is clearly the best mix of need and talent available at 19, bc he solves our Center need (and to a lesser extent a need at Guard) while also giving us great value.

However, Jimmy Smith is by far BPA at 19, fills a long term need at CB (CB won't be an issue this year, but as early as next year it could be), so do you stay true to your draft board and take Jimmy Smith or do you draft Pouncey? A guy who fills a more immediate need but also has a lower draft grade on him?

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Ok, this is my follow up question then. In this scenario that you just described, Pouncey is clearly the best mix of need and talent available at 19, bc he solves our Center need (and to a lesser extent a need at Guard) while also giving us great value.

However, Jimmy Smith is by far BPA at 19, fills a long term need at CB (CB won't be an issue this year, but as early as next year it could be), so do you stay true to your draft board and take Jimmy Smith or do you draft Pouncey? A guy who fills a more immediate need but also has a lower draft grade on him?

Hmm... well I am biased.. I think BPA according to you suggests take the CB. However, the NEED is offensive line..

Everyone but Snee was injured at some point. Bradshaw was hurt this year but had a great year. Our scheme starts with the running game and ball control. However, during the early part of the year our OL stunk. It was all Bradshaw creating something out of nothing to carry us. Jacobs was healthier than towards the end and played well.

So if we want depth, and a good OL that can maul opposing DL players causing us to get back to that sick running game the OL is the best option in terms of need. We also then measure the need and BPA balance perfect then.

People say if Bradshaw wants a lot let him go.. Fair enough, however I like him a lot. So that means we need a SICK OL that can set the table for Jacobs or else his large frame isn't going anywhere, not to mention he can barely stay healthy. So then that goes our running game.

At this juncture, I think we need offensive trench players. Way too many question marks there. NEED VS BPA strikes a better balance than purely BPA, Smith.

[bigbluedefense]

Jimmy Smith has a lot of Revis in him though. It would be awfully hard for me to pass that up.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Jimmy Smith has a lot of Revis in him though. It would be awfully hard for me to pass that up.

Maybe but the need is not where close to OL. Perhaps BPA checks out.. but not need.

[bigbluedefense]

Maybe but the need is not where close to OL. Perhaps BPA checks out.. but not need.

The thing is, we have 7 rounds worth of draft picks. Why can't we grab a Center in the 2nd or 3rd?

The drop off between Jimmy Smith and another CB past the first is greater than the drop off btw Pouncey and other Centers later on.

Im still an O'Dowd fan and he seems like a 4th rounder at this point.

I think you have to factor in diminishing returns into the equation as well.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

The thing is, we have 7 rounds worth of draft picks. Why can't we grab a Center in the 2nd or 3rd?

The drop off between Jimmy Smith and another CB past the first is greater than the drop off btw Pouncey and other Centers later on.

Im still an O'Dowd fan and he seems like a 4th rounder at this point.

I think you have to factor in diminishing returns into the equation as well.

I would like us to sack up and actually draft a damn offensive linemen. We can say the same about going defense every year.. What about Mangold? Pouncy last year? Now once again, we pass up a prospect? Can't we draft defense sometime later?

Basically, when Fewell leaves, if history repeats itself, we will hire a lemon anyways, who makes our defense look terrible, thus inciting fans to think we stink, alarming our FO to draft defense once again.

[bigbluedefense]

I would like us to sack up and actually draft a damn offensive linemen. We can say the same about going defense every year.. What about Mangold? Pouncy last year? Now once again, we pass up a prospect? Can't we draft defense sometime later?

Basically, when Fewell leaves, if history repeats itself, we will hire a lemon anyways, who makes our defense look terrible, thus inciting fans to think we stink, alarming our FO to draft defense once again.

It seems like you'll get your wish. The Giants seem hell bent on getting an olinemen this year.

Jimmy Smith has all the makings of being the type of CB I always wanted, so I'm partial to him bc of that. But again, it all depends on whether his character checks out to me. I doubt we take him, but I would love the pick if it happened.

We just need a DC who will blitz and play press man coverage. A 46 defense disciple. Its frustrating that we don't go for that (outside of Spags).

[NY+Giants=NYG]

It seems like you'll get your wish. The Giants seem hell bent on getting an olinemen this year.

Jimmy Smith has all the makings of being the type of CB I always wanted, so I'm partial to him bc of that. But again, it all depends on whether his character checks out to me. I doubt we take him, but I would love the pick if it happened.

We just need a DC who will blitz and play press man coverage. A 46 defense disciple. Its frustrating that we don't go for that (outside of Spags).

I know! hehe thats why I am looking forward to this draft.. Mind you if we go defense and you hear.. NOOOOOOOOO echoing throughout the land, you know it's me!

[Bostonblows91]

I'd also like to see a D pick, i couldn't argue with an OL pick, but i feel like our offense is further along than our defense is at this point.

[BaLLiN]

After lookin back at Brandon Harris and Jimmy Smith, i just don't see what i like enough for a 1st round pick. Harris looks too small, doesn't have the best recovery speed, but makes good judgments on the ball and patterns. Smith looks like he strays away from contact, gets pushed around by blockers on occasion, but he is absolutely fantastic in press coverage.

BBD i dont think either Pouncey or Jimmy Smith are BPA at 19, but i agree with you that Jimmy Smith has all the makings of a starting CB, and a great one in press. But i don't like that he isn't as fluid and tends to let receivers eat up the cushion very quickly.

Personally Id only be comfortable with Tyron Smith or Amukamara at 19. If something happens where we go after Peterson, Miller, or Dareus thats even better, but those five players are the only ones i feel less bust potential with in a draft that has alot of risks.

[BaLLiN]

could we draft JJ Watt to be a UT?

[Bostonblows91]

well i talked to mel a bit tonight, i'll share. On castonzo being a LT prospect: " @Bostonblows91 Solid veteran, with 54 straight starts at BC - Good feet, excellent technique, could improve lower body strength. LT or RT" On kendric burney's stock after slow combine 40 " @Bostonblows91 Good football player - 3rd or 4th rd." on being better than mcshay " @Bostonblows91 Having more followers than somebody else isn't the reason I do this. If I had 20 only, that's fine. I love talking football"

[NY+Giants=NYG]

I'd also like to see a D pick, i couldn't argue with an OL pick, but i feel like our offense is further along than our defense is at this point.

I am not sure further along..

Most of our OL guys were hurt, with big time injuries. WR corps was shot, and our RBs were dinged up. Basically Snee and Eli were injury free ALL year. The rest were in and out.

If have to be proactive. That's why I hate that adage, "if it aint broke...."

And when when it breaks, then what? Everyone runs around crazy point fingers whose fault it was? I prefer the proactive approach. Most of our OL men were hurt, and now getting up there in age. Most of our WRs were hurt.. Our key RB was hurt. So now would be a good time to re-stock.

[BaLLiN]

Im starting to like Mike Pouncey again. Although there are plenty of tackles, none of them look like LT's and Tyron Smith who would be ideal, won't be there. Trading up in this draft will be a complete unknown because of the rookie contract restrictions, so we'll likely be giving up way too much which isn't Jerry Reese at all.

Another thing is, we need to pick Ryan Williams or Mikel Leshoure, Jacobs and Bradshaw are question marks, and Jacobs is inconsistent and sometimes a headcase. Bradshaw is great, and i hope he can fix his ball security problems but its also due to the way he runs, contorting his body and leaving the ball out like a loaf of bread.

Williams looks like DeAngelo Williams with better inside running, less speed, but his potential is tremendous. Great lateral quickness, good passcatcher, also like his vision and competitive drive. He's a team player, and plays with alot of passion.

Leshoure has great power, and uses his speed to gain momentum and run over people while having a slight wiggle. I LOVE how he almost always has his shoulders straight going upfield, eating up yardage quickly and not trying to be fancy.

1. Mike Pouncey OL
2. Ryan Williams RB
3. Nate Irving MLB
4. Jerrell Powe DT
6. DeAndre Brown TE
6. RT
6. Adrian Moten OLB
7. Buster Skrine ST

[Bostonblows91]

I am not sure further along..

Most of our OL guys were hurt, with big time injuries. WR corps was shot, and our RBs were dinged up. Basically Snee and Eli were injury free ALL year. The rest were in and out.

If have to be proactive. That's why I hate that adage, "if it aint broke...."

And when when it breaks, then what? Everyone runs around crazy point fingers whose fault it was? I prefer the proactive approach. Most of our OL men were hurt, and now getting up there in age. Most of our WRs were hurt.. Our key RB was hurt. So now would be a good time to re-stock.

i guess what i'm saying is that it will be easier for a standout rookie to slot in on our defense right now, the offensive starters are pretty well entrenched for another year or two.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

i guess what i'm saying is that it will be easier for a standout rookie to slot in on our defense right now, the offensive starters are pretty well entrenched for another year or two.

I don't think they are entrenched. I think Snee is the only definite. If we bring people in for depth AND to start.. Our LG situation is in the air... LT David D vs Beatty. If Beatty wins, David D comes in to LG. Who plays center then? Where is the depth there? Koets hurt.. O'hara hurt... Rich S hurt... RG Snee is the only stud. Kareem M. is getting up there in age. After that the depth is shaky. Petrus is learning, and Andrews can't be counted on to play a full season.

Not to mention, RB is up in the air with Bradshaw, and most of our WRs were hurt, thus having to sign people off the street.

I'd be worried about our offense..We have been taking it for granted and now it's starting

From O'hara

Pretty scary comment from O'Hara:



The only center that we have that can snap right now is Jerry Palmieri, our strength coach.

[Bostonblows91]

I really don't see WR as a need, we wouldn't have had to sign people of the street if they didn't IR victor cruz to make room for whoever it was, don't care to remember. Despite how the OL looks on paper right now, it was still one of the best in the league last year, at least in pass blocking.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

I really don't see WR as a need, we wouldn't have had to sign people of the street if they didn't IR victor cruz to make room for whoever it was, don't care to remember. Despite how the OL looks on paper right now, it was still one of the best in the league last year, at least in pass blocking.

Yeah pass blocking, except Coughlin would be happy to continue his attack the QB and pound the ball style offense. If that's what he stills wants to go with as the team's offensive identity, then OL will have to get upgraded.

Pass blocking is all well and good, but if we get no push at the LOS, then Bradshaw once again will have to create something out of nothing. That's if we re-sign him. If not, we are in trouble because Jacob needs perfect blocking or else his 6'4 frame will get stuffed back behind the LOS like earlier in the season.

We need offensive linemen given our state of things.

[BaLLiN]

Pass blocking is all well and good, but if we get no push at the LOS, then Bradshaw once again will have to create something out of nothing. That's if we re-sign him. If not, we are in trouble because Jacob needs perfect blocking or else his 6'4 frame will get stuffed back behind the LOS like earlier in the season.

We need offensive linemen given our state of things.

i 100% agree with this statement. This is why id rather have Pouncey or Tyron Smith because they both are good pass protectors but demonstrate great athleticism to get to the second level and maul linebackers as well as give some push against DL although its not their strong points.

I really don't care how we go with our picks as long as we address LB and OL. If there is a DE such as Bowers or WR such as Julio Jones, i would love to just pull the trigger. We are in a good position where we are capable of having a luxury pick imo.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

i 100% agree with this statement. This is why id rather have Pouncey or Tyron Smith because they both are good pass protectors but demonstrate great athleticism to get to the second level and maul linebackers as well as give some push against DL although its not their strong points.

I really don't care how we go with our picks as long as we address LB and OL. If there is a DE such as Bowers or WR such as Julio Jones, i would love to just pull the trigger. We are in a good position where we are capable of having a luxury pick imo.

Depends on where the luxury pick is, and what round.. I like Pouncey a lot. I would have liked him last year. I wanted Mangold when he came out. I love offensive trench players, and in our system we need them. With our scheme, when we get the right guys we have the ability to dominate. Our running game was amazing due to great OL coaching and good players who worked together as a unit better than most teams.

That was an example of how the sum is better than the individual parts. Now our OL is getting older, and seems like everyone got hurt last year except for Snee. We need a center and a guard, unless David D is kicking at LG, with beatty playing full time LT. If we like Pouncey as a full time LG that's fine by me. Then later on grab a center. But going offensive trench player is a must for this draft.

If not, then you re-sign Bradshaw for any price. Why? Because he can make something out of nothing. So if you slack off in drafting OL, at least he can make something when the blocking is not there. To me you can't have it both ways... Can't let bradshaw walk, and then not draft OL, and then except Jacobs to start, and be productive. His big frame won't go anywhere if the guys up front can't get a good push.

Our offensive MVP was bradshaw early on, due to him putting the running game on his shoulders when the blocking wasn't there. Jacobs was ineffective, and thus rested, which helped when Bradshaw hit the wall. Jacobs was fresh and able to be an impact. But Jacobs did say he wanted to start.

I like BPA, but part of me hopes BPA is a lot of offensive players from OL to RB.

[Bostonblows91]

Justin Houston in the 2nd anybody? Man i love drug tests.

[Damix]

Another DE? Do we need it?

[BaLLiN]

Justin Houston in the 2nd anybody? Man i love drug tests.

He failed the idiot test as scott said on his twitter. Don't want a guy who shows up for a job interview knowing that he isn't prepared.

Another DE? Do we need it?

Idk if Houston is a 4-3 DE, but 3-4 OLB is probably his best fit. In our scheme it wouldn't really make sense to draft him because he is too small to play DE and not as experienced, disciplined, or fit to play LB at all.

[Bostonblows91]

He failed the idiot test as scott said on his twitter. Don't want a guy who shows up for a job interview knowing that he isn't prepared.



Idk if Houston is a 4-3 DE, but 3-4 OLB is probably his best fit. In our scheme it wouldn't really make sense to draft him because he is too small to play DE and not as experienced, disciplined, or fit to play LB at all.

sorry but we landed MM because he failed drug tests and he has arguably been the best draft pick from the 2008 class. (Toot KP's horn all you like; he's being overrated IMO). Also janoris jenkins failed some tests too...wouldn't mind giving up next years 3rd or 4th in the supplemental...if he makes it that far.

[DOMINATEtheline]

Good Morning on the eve of the draft. Been real busy at work so havent
been active here. Enjoy all the dialogue and exchange of ideas. Lets hope we come out a better team and more complete team after the draft. Heres my Final Mock.

FINAL MOCK DRAFT
1. Corey Liuget DT
Cofield is a free agent, and he has been a good player for us, but its time to reload. In addition, Bernard is making a good chunk of cash and it’s a wise move to release him. Liguet has a good combination of strength, power and balance. Plays with a high motor! When Liget puts it all together he can be the best 3 Tech of this draft class. His hand use is very advanced at this very young stage of his career in my opinion, he’s always using his hands in a very VIOLENT way. Plays with a consistent leverage and has a good anchor. After a year or two in a NFL type weight training program he should be giving interior offensive linemen fits. I see a lot of TFLs and overall disruption in the opponent’s backfield from Liguet in his rookie year as a rotational DT. A steal if he falls to us.

Alternative: Jimmy Smith CB

2. Orlando Franklin OT/OG 6-6, 320lbs Miami
Our future RT. I really like this young man's upside and potential at the next level. In my opinion, the only difference from him and the other top OTs in this draft is technique, which could be taught and we got one of best positional coaches in Pat Flahery. The balance and agility that Franklin has at his size is amazing, this is what makes him so versatile. He’s strong and has a good anchor, which allows him to handle bull rushes. I remember seeing him hold his own against Gerald McCoy a couple of years back. He has that aggressive nasty demeanor I like again. With NFL positional coaching and one year under the tutelage of Kareem McKenzie and he would be ready to take over the RT in 2012.

Alternative: Marcus Gilbert OT/OG 6-6 330lbs

3. Will Rackley OG 6-3, 310 Lehigh
Our interior linemen situation is in need of young talent ASAP. Rackley- is very mobile for his size. Excellent base to anchor and plays with the mean streak you need in the trenches. Surprising good technique besides being a small school prospect.
Alternative: Clint Boling OG/OT 6-5, 310 Georgia
So underrated...

4. Alex Green RB 6-2 225lbs Hawaii
Bye Bye Brandon Jacobs, thank you for your services. Green- a power back with good hands and very few miles on him. Have surprising burst and quick feet for a back his size. Really like the upside of this young man.

Alternative: Shane Vereen RB Cal

6a. Denarius Moore 6-0, 194 Tennessee
Slot receiver with moderate upside.

Alternative: Ryan Bartholomew C/OG 6-1, 302 Syracuse
6b. Kendrick Burney 5-9, 186lbs North Carolina
Very good slot CB, the tape on this guy doesn’t lie! Throw his 40yd time in the trash.

Alternative: Anthony Gaitor CB 5-10, 180 Florida International

6c. Craig Cooper 5-10, 200lbs Miami
A steal if he stays healthy.

Alternative: David Sims SS 5-9, 200 Iowa State
A banger and enforcer!

7. David Sims SS 5-9, 200 Iowa State
A banger and enforcer!

Alternative: Clay Nurse DE 6-3 260 lbs
High Motor player will help in special teams and provide DE depth.

I feel that Reese and company waited a year too long to fortify the offensive trenches. I think it’s imperative we do this, we need some youth infusion there, let Pat Flahery mold this young guys into dominant complete NFL linemen. It’s time to move on.

I think the Giants should sign: Manny Lawson of the 49ers to shore our Lb corps. I think we need to dominate in the trenches and everything else will fall into place. Most of that yardage that Bradshaw got last year was more indicative of this skill set and type of runner he is, not necessarily the offensive line, our run blocking was very inconsistent last year, our pass protection was good under the circumstances though.

I hope that Reese and the Giants draft team are illuminated and make wise picks during the entire three day draft. WE NEED TO GET BACK TO BASICS, dominating the trenches. Any constructive comments or input please feel free! Enjoy the draft…

[BaLLiN]

sorry but we landed MM because he failed drug tests and he has arguably been the best draft pick from the 2008 class. (Toot KP's horn all you like; he's being overrated IMO). Also janoris jenkins failed some tests too...wouldn't mind giving up next years 3rd or 4th in the supplemental...if he makes it that far.

Mario failed university tests, i know its bad, but showing up to a job interview and such a big event and failing their tests at the combine is much worse IMO.

I would pick Janoris Jenkins with a 3rd no doubt, he's a mid-late first round talent and exactly what we're looking for in a slot. We're usually good at handling people with substance abuse problems, plus then we would have time to groom him into possibly a starting role.

[scottyboy]

princeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[Damix]

I never even thought of the opportunity to take him.

I do wish we traded up for Fairley, but Prince is decent value and should be a good player for us.

The only thing that sucks is this is probably going to be ANOTHER year where we get barely any prooduction from our first round pick. I can't see him being anything more then our 4th CB to start the year.

[Giantsfan1080]

Our secondary should be absolutely nasty if Fewell leaves the Cover 2 to a minimum. Pressure is on him this year.

[DOMINATEtheline]

I never even thought of the opportunity to take him.

I do wish we traded up for Fairley, but Prince is decent value and should be a good player for us.

The only thing that sucks is this is probably going to be ANOTHER year where we get barely any prooduction from our first round pick. I can't see him being anything more then our 4th CB to start the year.


I agree 100% I cant believe that Reese didn't trade up to 12 to pick up Fairley! A blue chip 3 tech with the Demeanor that is soo missing from this Defense! I m glad with Prince I can't believe he fell I think he will push Ross for the nickle this yr and should be a starter by nxt yr. I give the Prince pick a B+ grade. Once again and I said this before Reese is good at drafting but he he is poor in targeting certain players and going after them. The impact a Fairley would make would be immeasureable! Fairley as a 3rd DT in is rookie yr would of been...on to the second round....

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Well that makes 6/7 drafts we went defensive player. We should be the masters of defense now with all these damn defensive first rounders. Fewell has A LOT of pressure on him now. He has all the elements to run his system. Now he has to be creative with his blitz packages and be creative to use our personnel efficiently.

We better go OFFENSE NOW! Well.. BPA.. but still, enough with the defense. Our OL still is suspect with these injuries and we need another RB.

[Giantsfan1080]

I still wouldn't mind if we went with a DT in the 2nd.

Apparently we had Tyron Smith as out top rated OT and then we were going to take Solder if he was there but the Pats beat us to it.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

I would.. Not a damn need. That's why we drafted Joseph last year. Now bring him in the mix. That's a luxury pick in my opinion. That DT would be for a rotating depth.

[Giantsfan1080]

Yeah but our depth at DT still is lacking. We have Canty, Joseph, and Bernard. If we re-sign Cofield I wouldnt be as upset but with just those 3 guys it's certainly a need.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Yeah but our depth at DT still is lacking. We have Canty, Joseph, and Bernard. If we re-sign Cofield I wouldnt be as upset but with just those 3 guys it's certainly a need.

Canty, Joseph, Bernard, and Tuck playing DT at times with JPP getting added. if Kiwi comes back then move defensive line help. Plus later round DTs and undrafted DTs. LOL. It would be a luxury pick for us.

We need offensive stuff. Most of our OL was hurt except Snee. Most of our WRs were hurt except Mario. Our sole TE has a concussion issue... And all our RBs are injury prone..

Offense is the way to go.

[Giantsfan1080]

Injuries are unpredictable and our WR corps is deep as hell. The backs are going to get nicked up as the year goes on but everyone was pretty much healthy and played every game. We can easily find a RB we like later in the draft. I agree about the OL that we do need help there but there aren't exactly a large number of good OL prospects in Rounds 2 and 3. I wouldn't mind taking Rudolph but he won't be around for our 2nd round pick most likely.