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NY+Giants=NYG
04-29-2011, 11:49 AM
Injuries are unpredictable and our WR corps is deep as hell. The backs are going to get nicked up as the year goes on but everyone was pretty much healthy and played every game. We can easily find a RB we like later in the draft. I agree about the OL that we do need help there but there aren't exactly a large number of good OL prospects in Rounds 2 and 3. I wouldn't mind taking Rudolph but he won't be around for our 2nd round pick most likely.

Deep in terms of bodies, yes, but deep is different for us. Our system is more complex based on adjustments pre snap and post snap. So far only guy who has mastered this system is Smith. After that, it's going to be an issue because guys may make plays but they will run wrong routes, in this system, and that results in turnovers. Depth at WR for us in this system is like 4-5 Steve Smiths. Guys who know where they are going. Otherwise depth, in the traditional sense for our system doesn't apply. All it means is we have bodies.

If a good RB is there then I would draft him. TE is an issue too. Beckum has done nothing and after Boss we have no one. And Boss is one concussion away from missing games due to him getting his bell rung often.

The other picks on defense are just luxury picks. If we can draft a defensive coordinator for the future than by all means. It would be ironic if we stocked up on d talent, only to see Fewell leave next year, and start another system with a new DC yet again. Eventually, we need stability at the DC spot.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 12:11 PM
You don't have to tell me about the offensive system at this point as I'm well aware. Even with our systematic flaws we still have WR's that are successful at this level and have younger guys who have shown that they can take a step up like Barden or possibly Cruz. Any WR we take in this draft will still need time to learn the system and would be about 6th on the depth chart.

I'm not saying 100% go DT but if there is someone on the board that we like I wouldn't mind if we went that way.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-29-2011, 12:20 PM
You don't have to tell me about the offensive system at this point as I'm well aware. Even with our systematic flaws we still have WR's that are successful at this level and have younger guys who have shown that they can take a step up like Barden or possibly Cruz. Any WR we take in this draft will still need time to learn the system and would be about 6th on the depth chart.

I'm not saying 100% go DT but if there is someone on the board that we like I wouldn't mind if we went that way.

Barden has promise and so does Cruz, but both were hurt. I wouldn't take a WR unless the guy is a burner AND can play special teams. If not, then no thanks. I would take a TE though, especially with Boss's health. All it takes is 1 or 2 more concussions and he would be in trouble career wise.

Damix
04-29-2011, 12:27 PM
I think we'll either have Cofield back in the fold, or be able to trade him for a 2012 3rd rounder. If the later, I wouldn't mind sending a 2012 4th rounder to Houston for Amobi Okoye.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-29-2011, 12:37 PM
I doubt he is going anywhere. We tried to the Saints, but no go. I expect him not to be extended.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 12:42 PM
Specials aren't going to be as important with the new return rules. Tynes just needs to learn to get touchbacks now.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-29-2011, 12:44 PM
I mean for returns if we can get a chance to bring it back. With our touch backs, you need to have more bigger returns when you get a chance.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 12:45 PM
I forgot but at WR we also have Hixon still right? I don't think he's a FA.

Rosebud
04-29-2011, 01:11 PM
Canty, Joseph, Bernard, and Tuck playing DT at times with JPP getting added. if Kiwi comes back then move defensive line help. Plus later round DTs and undrafted DTs. LOL. It would be a luxury pick for us.

We need offensive stuff. Most of our OL was hurt except Snee. Most of our WRs were hurt except Mario. Our sole TE has a concussion issue... And all our RBs are injury prone..

Offense is the way to go.

Yeah, but Bernard sucks, Tuck's effectiveness at DT diminishes the more we rely on him there as he gets worn down, Canty has shown a tendency to get nicked up as the year progresses, neither JPP nor Kiwi can effectively stuff the run from DT and Joseph is still an unknown. I like a Joseph-Canty pairing, but you need 3 good DTs to keep them fresh and healthy, otherwise your defense wears down over the course of a game and a season which limits your pass rush and linebackers leaving your secondary out to hang. We need a third DT, doesn't have to be the pick, but if a guy like Paea is available I'd love to see him be the pick. With that our D would be an impact linebacker away from being absolutely stacked so that we can weather the game of musical DCs we've been stuck with since Coughlin didn't retire after the superbowl.

Jughead10
04-29-2011, 01:57 PM
The one thing I do not want to do is reach for an OT. Didn't follow these prospects as much this year, but it seems the OT class dries up a bit at this point.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 02:08 PM
The one thing I do not want to do is reach for an OT. Didn't follow these prospects as much this year, but it seems the OT class dries up a bit at this point.

I think it was pretty dry when the draft began. Now it's just desert.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-29-2011, 03:27 PM
Yeah, but Bernard sucks, Tuck's effectiveness at DT diminishes the more we rely on him there as he gets worn down, Canty has shown a tendency to get nicked up as the year progresses, neither JPP nor Kiwi can effectively stuff the run from DT and Joseph is still an unknown. I like a Joseph-Canty pairing, but you need 3 good DTs to keep them fresh and healthy, otherwise your defense wears down over the course of a game and a season which limits your pass rush and linebackers leaving your secondary out to hang. We need a third DT, doesn't have to be the pick, but if a guy like Paea is available I'd love to see him be the pick. With that our D would be an impact linebacker away from being absolutely stacked so that we can weather the game of musical DCs we've been stuck with since Coughlin didn't retire after the superbowl.

He was hurt first year, that's what fans harp on. Same with Canty when he first signed. Now BB isn't good, but he isn't bad. He played better than when he was hurt that season. He is still depth WHICH is why we drafted LJ. It's not like we didn't address the position. We used a 2nd round pick for it.

I don't know why our fan base has such a boner for defensive players. Last 7 years we drafted 6 defensive 1st rounders. We can also address it by drafting one in the 6th round or signing an undrafted free agent.

And it seems like yearly we are addressing the LB spot. We spend 2 picks on it last year. They were hurt, now let's see what we got in them before we hit the well again. Let's see how year two works for Fewell.

A 3rd DT at this point, in my opinion, is a luxury pick. We have Canty, BB, LJ, and tuck will play that so that JPP comes in. Unless, something crazy happens where 1 position gets hit, we really don't need to waste another draft pick on yet another DT.

I support BPA and if that's the case fine, but damn, stop with the defensive players. Fill our offensive needs which actually need help. Right now we have no center. Our OL is aging AND our offensive identity is to run and control the clock.

We need an OL to create holes or we are in trouble. Are we re-signing Bradshaw? If not, then we need another RB because Jacobs can't handle a season's worth of pounding. O and not to mention, he needs perfect blocking to do well, or else he won't do squat. He struggled early last season because our OL isn't getting any push. So that's why Bradshaw was our MVP. He is the guy who created something out of nothing and got positive yards. He put the running game on his shoulders. If he isn't re-signed, then who is that back that creates something when nothing is there?

TE.. Mr. Concussion is our sole guy, and I like Boss. But Beckum hasn't done anything. So where does that leave us? All our WRs have been hurt except Super Mario. I hope Devin Thomas can step up and find a spot. But defense is last of our issues. If our defense can't do well, after drafting a first rounder 6 of the 7 years than shame on us.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Well even with all the great players it has been the defense that has let us down the last 2 years.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-29-2011, 03:40 PM
Well even with all the great players it has been the defense that has let us down the last 2 years.

That's the sad part. However injuries and instability at the coordinator position are the main issues. If Perry Fewell actually stays for year 3 I'd be surprised. And the way we get injuries is truly bad luck. Injuries are part of the game is an expression we hear a lot. But when we get them they kill a single position.

Panthers playoff game... LBs. We had to sign them off the street

Then DEs

Then RBs

CBs in 07..

I think we had safeties too at one point

Then last year... OL and WR.


Maybe 1 year we can have a break and actually stay healthy or have injuries be spread out and not eat up one position.

BaLLiN
04-29-2011, 04:01 PM
Why not draft DaQuan Bowers and move Justin Tuck to full time DT? Personally i think he's better as an UT, and this would give JPP a chance to gain a starting spot. Osi is a one trick pony right now and i hate it.

BaLLiN
04-29-2011, 04:05 PM
and Prince is a good pick, doesnt he only have 4 years of experience as a corner? He blankets a receiver, but doesn't get his eyes back quick enough or breaks on a ball enough to make on a play. I feel like he has his aggressive times, but then also really conservative plays. He definitely is better as a pure CB imo than Peterson because he can play all coverages and doesn't let the WR that far away from him.

I like the value, but i predicted him falling, i have him as my 14th ranked player and jimmy smith at 13. If smith wasnt a dumbass we couldve picked him.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 04:06 PM
Bowers won't be around when we pick plus we don't need a player whose knee might already be done.

gpngc
04-29-2011, 04:08 PM
**** you guys for sniping our pick.

Jerry Reese is such a ******* G.

You will draft some nice OL to add more youngsters to your OL farm system (only team in the league that has a ******* farm system of OL because they draft so ******* well).

AND you get to draft a RB at any point in rounds 2-7 which is always fun.

You're organization is so well-run it's nauseating as a fan of another team.

If you can't tell - I'm jealous.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 04:16 PM
Reese and Ross do a great job for sure. Accorsi left us in a great position.

BaLLiN
04-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Bowers won't be around when we pick plus we don't need a player whose knee might already be done.

Obviously it would require a trade, but landing a guy like bowers if we believe his knee wont hinder him that much is such a home run. I wonder how bad it really is, or its also because he's a one year wonder...

**** you guys for sniping our pick.

Jerry Reese is such a ******* G.

You will draft some nice OL to add more youngsters to your OL farm system (only team in the league that has a ******* farm system of OL because they draft so ******* well).

AND you get to draft a RB at any point in rounds 2-7 which is always fun.

You're organization is so well-run it's nauseating as a fan of another team.

If you can't tell - I'm jealous.

Hey, you got Earl thomas last year stop complaining. Our OL is half injured and we're old so idk what your talkin about. Your welcome to join us

Jughead10
04-29-2011, 05:06 PM
I still think we need another LB. We've needed that for 6-7 years now. Most of us would have given their left nut for McClain last year (at least me), and I don't think we have solidified that position anymore since then.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 05:09 PM
I still think we need another LB. We've needed that for 6-7 years now. Most of us would have given their left nut for McClain last year (at least me), and I don't think we have solidified that position anymore since then.

I would have given my right. Anyway this wasn't a good LB group this year. We'll have to wait to get a stud unless we get lucky with someone later on in the draft.

Jughead10
04-29-2011, 05:11 PM
I would have given my right. Anyway this wasn't a good LB group this year. We'll have to wait to get a stud unless we get lucky with someone later on in the draft.

Oh I know LB is weak. Especially 4-3 LBers. Not sure who is available but if we liked someone enough to take in round 2, I would be pretty pleased. And just move Sintim to rush end.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 05:20 PM
Garofalo seems to think we go OL, DT, WR, or RB today. Suprisingly no mention of LB.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 06:29 PM
Looks like Wilson and Foster will be on the board if we want to go LB.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 06:51 PM
Well Fewell absolutely has no excuses. This is one talented group of players we have on the defensive side.

OSUGiants17
04-29-2011, 08:39 PM
Really WR with Foster on the board and still no OL

BaLLiN
04-29-2011, 09:28 PM
Really WR with Foster on the board and still no OL

i thought this too, i was wishing that Ryan Williams fell to us in the 2nd, pipedream. Reese doesn't care about the need anymore, especially when we have offensive linemen that can fill the spots but we just have never fully given them their chance. Beatty played well despite not putting on upper body muscle that was much needed. We'll see, im not opposed to Beatty starting at all.

Marvin Austin scares me mostly because he didnt produce, never lived up to his highschool hype. He has the prototypical body and attributes just never made it happen.

Jernigan is worth that pick point blank period.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-29-2011, 10:46 PM
Another damn defensive draft... If Fewell can't do it, then he should get the boot. I guess we are re-signing Bradshaw since we didn't address the OL, meaning Jacobs won't be effective then. He needs holes big enough to drive a SUV in order for him to be productive. I guess Bradshaw will be the man once free agency starts.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 11:35 PM
Stop with the hatred of Jacobs already. I'm pretty sure we all get the point.

Anyway Reese and Ross killed the first 3 rounds.

D-Unit
04-30-2011, 12:25 AM
Great job so far guys.

I really liked Jernigan. I guess that could possibly mean Steve Smith exits in FA. Hagan for sure.

With Austin, you guys grabbed a guy who I've been a fan of for a long time. I have no idea what kind of shape he's in, there's some boom or bust factor there, but I really liked what I saw of him before this season. I thought he would've been an upgrade for the Cowboys as one of our DEs. Definitely thought the Pats were gonna nab him at the top of the 2nd.

Not the biggest fan of Prince, but he was good value there. Could be a better pro than I imagined. Very jealous of your secondary compared to ours. Ours is pathetic.

wicket
04-30-2011, 02:48 AM
congrats ont he best draft of the bunch thusfar

Rosebud
04-30-2011, 05:22 AM
Meh, I'm just so bummed that we passed on Paea for Marvin Austin and his really questionable attitude. I trust Reece and Ross to do their HW, but man Austin was not a guy I thought we'd consider drafting, like at all.

That's a large part of why I think Houston's done much better than us so far. They still need a NT and more DBs, but with Mario, Watt and Smith I like their 3-4 ends, especially if one of Barwin, Reed or Anderson can break out opposite Cushing. That D is still weak up the middle, NT, ILB and Safety, but I'm liking what they're building along the outside.

Then There's the Colts who bring in Castonzo and Ijalana to bolster their OL before snagging up a good DT in Nevis. 3 really strong picks that should be able to address big needs for the Colts.

Love what the chiefs did to. I like Baldwin and I think playing for Haley opposite Bowe will be a great fit for him. Then you see them addressing their biggest need along the OL with Hudson who I like for their OL. That offense is a RT and shifty playmaking WR away from having all of the pieces to beast. Plus they did a nice job getting Houston to help Hali and in Bailey they have a raw talent who could become a valuable rotational lineman for them.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 06:57 AM
Hmmm, I dunno guys. I like the draft, but I don't love it so far.

1. Prince:

I like Prince. I think he's a very good CB. And the value was too great to pass up, and as you guys all know, I was favoring a CB before the draft. However, some things scare me: His stiff hips, his short arms, the fact that he doesn't get INTs.

What I like about him is his versatility, toughness, character, and willingness to compete. When I saw him play, he would blanket receivers. I just hope he doesn't have stone hands.

Who I would have taken: Jimmy Smith

I just love Jimmy Smith. I know he has questionable character, but we rolled the dice on Austin, so why not on Smith? Smith will probably wind up being the best CB in this draft class. I like Prince, don't get me wrong, but I feel like we left the better CB on the board.

2. Marvin Austin

Hmmm, I don't know about this one guys! I love his potential, but his laziness and character issues scare me quite a bit. Those were the reasons why I didn't like Fairley, yet we went with Austin who is even a bigger risk. This pick is either going to be great or terrible. There's no medium with it.

I'm cautiously optomistic, but at the same time, I'm very nervous about this pick.

Who I would have taken: Stephen Paea

Paea was on the board and I felt he was much safer. I like his burst off the line, his motor, and his strength. I felt that we could have molded him into a pretty good DT. Austin has more potential, but with the lack of leadership on our defense, do we gamble on that guy? I dunno, it's a scary thought. I would have went with the safer pick this time, even though I was willing to gamble on Smith. To me, Smith's worth the risk, but Austin wasn't. We'll see how it goes though, I like the CB, DT duo in rounds 1 and 2, just the specific players I would have targeted would be different. Hopefully Reese and Ross did their hw and their picks wind up being better.

3. Jerrigans

To be quite honest, I don't know much about this guy. I know he's fast and explosive, which is good. But he'll rarely sniff the field as a WR for us, we're stacked at WR. Plus KillDrive isn't creative enough to use him in sub packages.

I view him realistically as our kick/punt returner. Now we desperately needed that so I don't mind the pick at all, but getting one in the 3rd is a bit high for my liking. But again, I readily admit I don't know enough about him.

Who I would have picked: Mason Foster

Mason Foster was the last of the LBs on the board that I liked. Wasn't thrilled that Bruce Carter went earlier than I anticipated, and it crushed me when Nate Irving was taken by the Broncos. But Foster was still there, and he could have been our future SAM with Sintim being moved to full time DE. I really liked Irving a lot but he was taken.

At this point I feel we should just avoid LBs all together. I don't want us to keep adding mediocre LBs to our depth chart. What's the point? I rather us gamble on another position and grab some developmental olinemen for the rest of the draft and perhaps a RB.

So far I like the draft, but I'm not thrilled with it. I'd give it a B-. If we got Smith, Paea, and Foster, I would be thrilled.

wicket
04-30-2011, 07:04 AM
I dont know how you can want jimmy over prince and paea over austin at the same time. Austin is a good bit more versatile with more upside than paea who also has an injury issue whilst at least at the time prince is just better than jimmy.

the case in both picks is the same
higher upside & questionable character VS better character & safer pick

however the upside differential is bigger with austin, the character differential is WAY bigger with Jimmy and the safety differential is also way bigger with Prince & Jimmy.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 07:12 AM
I dont know how you can want jimmy over prince and paea over austin at the same time. Austin is a good bit more versatile with more upside than paea who also has an injury issue whilst at least at the time prince is just better than jimmy.

the case in both picks is the same
higher upside & questionable character VS better character & safer pick

however the upside differential is bigger with austin, the character differential is WAY bigger with Jimmy and the safety differential is also way bigger with Prince & Jimmy.

Was Jimmy really that bad? See, to be quite honest, I don't know specifics about Jimmy's character history. I can't imagine it was any worse than Austins.

And the reason why I'd gamble on Jimmy but not Austin is bc it's just so much harder to motivate a lazy DT. DTs bust quite often for that reason, they get fat and lazy quickly. Now we go out and draft a DT who is lazy with questionable desire? I just think the bust potential is higher for a DT with character issues.

I hope I'm wrong. Austin could be the missing link on our defense. And I hope Prince winds up being better than Smith, but right now, I'm not sure if that's going to be the case.

Smith is just a special talent. Watch him ball in Baltimore. I just hope Prince can be near his level. Those short arms on Prince scare me a little. That's honestly my biggest concern with Prince. Short arms. Prince was my 3rd rated CB in this draft.

I still love the pick. I'm just a little nervous about this draft is all.

wicket
04-30-2011, 07:17 AM
Was Jimmy really that bad? See, to be quite honest, I don't know specifics about Jimmy's character history. I can't imagine it was any worse than Austins.

Lets put it this way. Tressell and Meyer would both have kicked him off the team for his history for sure

ill post a thread started by iamcanadian who wraps it up a bit

I didn't realize it was this bad. Is he past this, since it appears to be 3 years ago, or is he going to be just another crackhead from day 1?


Talib was an enormous character risk in 2008 when Tampa Bay selected him with the 20th pick. But while Talib has been a fine player, he has repeatedly embarrassed the organization on and off the field with behavior that could get him released soon.

"Jimmy Smith is a carbon copy of Aqib Talib," said an executive who has had dealings with both players. "This guy will be the same way."

Teams are well aware that Smith flunked three drug tests at Colorado, and he told at least one club that one of the three was for misusing codeine.

Smith also told teams of his two alcohol-related violations, the pair of abortions that were paid for by parents of women he impregnated and an arrest for third-degree assault in a restaurant.

"Two abortions, aggravated assault, two minors in possession, three failed drug tests  . . .  that's a little excessive," the personnel man said.

It was telling, said one scout, that Southern California and UCLA chose not to recruit Smith out of what he called a "bad, bad, bad" neighborhood just east of Los Angeles. Some of Smith's family members have been in and out of jail.

I don't know how truthful this report is and I cannot post a link because it is from one of Scott's competitors.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 07:19 AM
Ummmm....damn!

Ok nvm, I'm all about Prince then.


Damn Jimmy...so talented, yet so stupid...sad stuff.

scottyboy
04-30-2011, 10:00 AM
that and really BBD...i dont think Smith is really THAT good. Prince was far and away the best choice at 19. I'm fine with Austin too, good pick there with tons of upside. Just wished we took Foster in the 3rd. that would've been unreal

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 10:24 AM
BBD,

That WR is my token offensive player this draft.. You are not allowed to say anything bad : P

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 10:28 AM
that and really BBD...i dont think Smith is really THAT good. Prince was far and away the best choice at 19. I'm fine with Austin too, good pick there with tons of upside. Just wished we took Foster in the 3rd. that would've been unreal

Prince is more versatile. Jimmy is just dominant as a press man CB. Revis-esque when playing press man. That's why I loved his game so much.

But Prince can blitz better, can play off and press, can play zone or man, he's more versatile.

Theres only 2 concerns I have about Prince

1. Short arms
2. Lack of INTs

I looooove Prince as a player, but those 2 things just scare me a tad. I still think he's going to be a great player. I'm just not sure if he'll be a true shutdown guy.

But honestly, we don't really need him to be.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 10:29 AM
BBD,

That WR is my token offensive player this draft.. You are not allowed to say anything bad : P

You'll take your developmental offensive linemen in the middle rounds and like it mister! :p

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 10:29 AM
Haha, another "guy whimper" and then cut him later.. Yay! But wait, aren't we due for our annual LBs. It isn't a giants draft without drafting them.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 10:34 AM
Haha, another "guy whimper" and then cut him later.. Yay! But wait, aren't we due for our annual LBs. It isn't a giants draft without drafting them.

Mediocre LBs in the middle rounds. Height/weight/speed skill position projects, developmental olinemen.

Sounds like a plan.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 10:35 AM
Oh and don't forget that middle round RB.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 10:36 AM
Yeah... I wish we can draft another RB though. Get me a speedster who can take to the house. Oh, and of course OL players, unless Austin or Prince can play center too.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 10:48 AM
Yeah... I wish we can draft another RB though. Get me a speedster who can take to the house. Oh, and of course OL players, unless Austin or Prince can play center too.

I kind of faith in Koets.

I wouldn't mind getting a developmental guy as insurance to Koets. With Petrus, Koets, Snee, and Diehl, I think we just have to hope Beatty is fine and we have a solid unit with those guys.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 10:56 AM
Not as a center...He came in because of injury. Hell, we took him out in Seattle because of crowd noise, lol. Not a vote of confidence going up against a junky team.

We need a center not a project stepping in.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 11:00 AM
Koets actually played very well when he was in there. Our oline significantly improved when he went in there.

Give him time to gel. Look at our oline in 07, not a single guy on that unit was a 1st rounder. Just 1 was a 2nd rounder, the rest all late round guys. I guess our philosophy with the oline is draft a bunch of mid round guys and let them gel together.

I don't agree with it, but that seems to be the gameplan. And it's worked in the past.

*shrug*

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 11:02 AM
Koets actually played very well when he was in there. Our oline significantly improved when he went in there.

Give him time to gel. Look at our oline in 07, not a single guy on that unit was a 1st rounder. Just 1 was a 2nd rounder, the rest all late round guys. I guess our philosophy with the oline is draft a bunch of mid round guys and let them gel together.


Not to mention even he was hurt.. Can we get someone in the right position who is not hurt? I hope we draft a center or OL. Andrews is shot, Rich S is basically has to come back once again at his age, and S. O'hara is shot as well. So we have Koets who is hurt, and then who? Me? You? The condition of the OL is a big issue, which will bite us in the buttock.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 12:06 PM
Damn project pick. So basically Guy Whimper type project. Lovely, how does that help us now?

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 12:39 PM
Damn project pick. So basically Guy Whimper type project. Lovely, how does that help us now?

Told ya! You knew we were drafting a project olinemen in the middle rounds haha.

Now we're going to probably go after a RB, an inside Olinemen, a height/weight/speed guy and call it a day.

Rosebud
04-30-2011, 01:43 PM
Told ya! You knew we were drafting a project olinemen in the middle rounds haha.

Now we're going to probably go after a RB, an inside Olinemen, a height/weight/speed guy and call it a day.

How about a dropping developmental QB?

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 01:54 PM
How about a dropping developmental QB?

Ooooh, forgot about that one.

I'm intrigued with Brewer. He's clearly not a guy who will contribute this year, but since when do we ever draft someone who does? We always redshirt our rookies anyway.

The guy seems soft though, that scares me a little. Reminds me of Guy Whimper, who nothing for nothing, I didn't think was that bad as a backup swing tackle.

The way it's shaping up, our front office has faith in Beatty panning out, Petrus as a long term solution at LG, Koets at C, and Diehl at RT.

I've mentioned this before, I don't necessarily dislike the idea. But we do need to build some depth behind that front.

I guess patience is a virtue with our method of drafting olinemen. I thought Koets was a scrub, then he proved me wrong this year after some years of development.

Here's to hoping Beatty can be the next guy to prove me wrong. He's the key, if he doesn't pan out, we're in big trouble.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Told ya! You knew we were drafting a project olinemen in the middle rounds haha.

Now we're going to probably go after a RB, an inside Olinemen, a height/weight/speed guy and call it a day.

Haha yeah but I knew that too. Usually, it's defense first and then junk in the middle, and your quota of LBs.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 02:03 PM
Haha yeah but I knew that too. Usually, it's defense first and then junk in the middle, and your quota of LBs.

That seems to be our style. Draft middle round olinemen, develop them for a couple of years while playing the same 5 guys and develop chemistry. Then when that 5 gets old, plug in a new 5 out of the farm and have them build chemistry.

It's like a bluechip makeshift oline system made of scrappy middle round guys that need some time to develop. I personally don't like it, I rather draft olinemen early and have a group of dominant guys with top notch athleticism, but we seem to prefer middle of the pack guys who get by on chemistry and good enough athleticism.

We'll see how it works. Like I said earlier, I think this all hinges on Beatty. If Beatty can pan out at LT, we're fine. Bc Petrus can easily play LG (i love Petrus), Snee is a stud, and Diehl can play RT.

So then we cross our fingers and hope that Koets can get healthy enough to play Center for us, and cross our fingers and hope Richy can be his backup.

Plus, we can get a scrappy guy in FA as an emergency backup.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 02:06 PM
That seems to be our style. Draft middle round olinemen, develop them for a couple of years while playing the same 5 guys and develop chemistry. Then when that 5 gets old, plug in a new 5 out of the farm and have them build chemistry.

It's like a bluechip makeshift oline system made of scrappy middle round guys that need some time to develop. I personally don't like it, I rather draft olinemen early and have a group of dominant guys with top notch athleticism, but we seem to prefer middle of the pack guys who get by on chemistry and good enough athleticism.

We'll see how it works. Like I said earlier, I think this all hinges on Beatty. If Beatty can pan out at LT, we're fine. Bc Petrus can easily play LG (i love Petrus), Snee is a stud, and Diehl can play RT.

So then we cross our fingers and hope that Koets can get healthy enough to play Center for us, and cross our fingers and hope Richy can be his backup.

Plus, we can get a scrappy guy in FA as an emergency backup.



I hate that so much you have no idea! If we go defensive next year I am throwing the tv instead of the remote! We better have a god like defense or else I will snap!

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 02:07 PM
I hate that so much you have no idea! If we go defensive next year I am throwing the tv instead of the remote! We better have a god like defense or else I will snap!

Linebacker in round 1!!!!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah


I'm all about defense. Jerry Reese's drafts makes my dick hard.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 02:09 PM
Linebacker in round 1!!!!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah


I'm all about defense. Jerry Reese's drafts makes my dick hard.

Hahahaha. I go BPA, but for god sake... 7/8 drafts defense is not cool! Enough with that stuff. Why don't we try drafting a DC for the future rather then the musical chairs nonsense we have been running since firing Tim lewis.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 02:14 PM
Hahahaha. I go BPA, but for god sake... 7/8 drafts defense is not cool! Enough with that stuff. Why don't we try drafting a DC for the future rather then the musical chairs nonsense we have been running since firing Tim lewis.

You just gotta hope for a defensive head coach as our next coach. That's the only way we'll get stability on defense.

We have enough talent on defense that we should be the best pressure based press man coverage defense in the league.

But Fewell will find a way to F it up.



Now we just need some damn linebackers. I heard next year is a good linebacker draft. We can't ignore linebacker any longer.


Another thing I forgot to mention, it's a very strong possibility that Jared Gaither is a FA once the season starts. Dare we go after him? The risk is his back issues, but the guy is a dominant LT when healthy.

I loved him coming out too.

If we have the stones to pick him up in FA, that would help us out quite a bit.

Rosebud
04-30-2011, 02:23 PM
Another thing I forgot to mention, it's a very strong possibility that Jared Gaither is a FA once the season starts. Dare we go after him? The risk is his back issues, but the guy is a dominant LT when healthy.

I loved him coming out too.

If we have the stones to pick him up in FA, that would help us out quite a bit.

He could be our backup IR lineman unless he can beat Shawn Andrews to the punch!

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 02:25 PM
He could be our backup IR lineman unless he can beat Shawn Andrews to the punch!

Touche haha.

If hes cheap, I wouldn't mind. His back issues can't be nearly as bad as Shawns are. I hope...

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 02:46 PM
TACKLE PM'd me about Jonathan Cornell. The guy looks pretty solid. If he's on the board, I wouldn't mind giving him a shot:

I know you've eyeing the MIKE backers in this draft with the Giants in mind and saw this guy and thought you might be interested. He's not quite as good but he does remind me quite a lot of Curtis Lofton. Stocky, low center of gravity, take great angles, diagnoses the play very quickly, doesn't take false steps and because of that has great range despite 4.7 speed. Leader, team captain and a smart guy too. Anyway, I know how much you love you some LB's and thought you would like this guy.


tCO9L3kFDrg

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 02:53 PM
Virgil Green is another guy I wouldn't mind in the 6th. Or best available RB or Greg Jones.

OSUGiants17
04-30-2011, 03:18 PM
Finally a LB, took long enough. If we had taken Foster round 3 that would make this a great draft instead we took a WR we didn't need and waited until round 6 to take a mediocre LB ugh.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 03:22 PM
HAHA BBD! LB! I swear we have discovered the blue print formula!

BaLLiN
04-30-2011, 03:29 PM
I like the greg jones pick, he will at least be a great impact on special teams and in the 6th round you won't find many guys with his ability, his only knock is strength. Being short and having a lower center of gravity is not a bad thing, especially because he has long arms (32 in). Love the pick, love the potential, but also think we have helped our special team a hell of a lot with Prince, Jernigan, and now Jones.

Edit: last year there were talks of him being 1st/2nd round player and we got him in the 6th.

OSUGiants17
04-30-2011, 03:38 PM
I hope we take Ryan Bartholomew with our next pick, solid value atthis point and we need to take a center before the end of this draft

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 03:39 PM
Haha, we're so predictable.

Our next 2 guys, I'm eying Virgil Green and Cornell. Or another project OL or best available RB.

We need another project interior olinemen. Come on Reese, I know you have it in you!

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 03:41 PM
Finally a LB, took long enough. If we had taken Foster round 3 that would make this a great draft instead we took a WR we didn't need and waited until round 6 to take a mediocre LB ugh.

I wanted Foster as well. From what I'm reading, I can't knock the pick though, the guy does sound like a solid player with explosion. We needed a kick returner in the worst way.

I liked Foster, but I think this forum was higher on him than most. My guy was Irving, I was crushed when he got drafted.

OSUGiants17
04-30-2011, 03:41 PM
Thoughts on Bartholomew BBD?

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 03:52 PM
Thoughts on Bartholomew BBD?

Sure. Quite honestly I don't really know many prospects at this point in the draft, but I'm all for a Center. If he can at least be a decent backup or if he's a project player who can eventually transition to the starting lineup with some development I'm all for it.

OSUGiants17
04-30-2011, 03:57 PM
I watched him heavily in the PinStripe bowl and he looked good.
2q62bNDzMy8&feature=related
look at the play at 0:21 at the hole he made, At :49 he pulls and levels the LB

EDIT: forgot about the TD at 1:50. Hell just watch #70 the whole time

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 04:06 PM
BBD,

Hehe 2 LBs make that and 1 safety! I don't want to hear any more whining by our fan base about Lbs and DTs, and other positions. We should have ALL the parts to be a sick defense. We better sign Bradshaw because clearly we didn't upgrade the OL unless free agency we go buck wild. Otherwise pay bradshaw, and away we go.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 04:10 PM
Realistically, I don't think any of us should expect any of these 6th round guys to stick. Maaaaybe Jones will, I like Jones, especially as an OLB in our system, but he's probably just going to be a solid backup.

I don't expect anything out of any players taken beyond round 5 personally.

From this draft, I think we got 1 starter in Prince, a solid special teamer in the 3rd...and that's about it.

I think this was a weak draft for us. Austin will make or break this draft class. If he's a stud, we did great. If he's a dud, we had an avg draft.


I think if you get 3 good players out of a draft, you did a great job. Prince will be good. I think Jerrigan will be good (but just a situational player), I think Brewer has potential, and Austin is the wildcard.

I dunno. I give this draft class a C+/B-

Not my favorite Jerry Reese draft. This was a terrible draft class though. Not nearly as talented as last year. If we get 3 good players out of it, I'll be happy.

OSUGiants17
04-30-2011, 04:10 PM
Does Reese just give up on day 3 and pick out of a hat?

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Does Reese just give up on day 3 and pick out of a hat?

To be fair, he landed Petrus in round 5, Bradshaw in round 7, Koets in round 6, Boss in round 5, Goff in round 5, the guy does a decent job in the later rounds.

He's great in the 5th round but we didn't have a 5th this year.

I'm a little disappointed that we didn't take a flyer on Virgil Green.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 04:20 PM
Let's see what happens. I have a ton of faith in Jerry Reese and Marc Ross. Maybe this draft class winds up being better than I think.


But for now, I'm kinda sad face.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 04:30 PM
Realistically, I don't think any of us should expect any of these 6th round guys to stick. Maaaaybe Jones will, I like Jones, especially as an OLB in our system, but he's probably just going to be a solid backup.

I don't expect anything out of any players taken beyond round 5 personally.

From this draft, I think we got 1 starter in Prince, a solid special teamer in the 3rd...and that's about it.

I think this was a weak draft for us. Austin will make or break this draft class. If he's a stud, we did great. If he's a dud, we had an avg draft.


I think if you get 3 good players out of a draft, you did a great job. Prince will be good. I think Jerrigan will be good (but just a situational player), I think Brewer has potential, and Austin is the wildcard.

I dunno. I give this draft class a C+/B-

Not my favorite Jerry Reese draft. This was a terrible draft class though. Not nearly as talented as last year. If we get 3 good players out of it, I'll be happy.




It's not a Reese Draft anymore. No trades, it's now a Marc Ross draft. In fact, since he took over I haven't been impressed.

The last "reese draft" was 2007, when he did his former, Director of Scouting job AND GM job. That was his homerun. Since Ross has taken over, I am not really in awe of his drafts.

Bostonblows91
04-30-2011, 04:35 PM
Nobody traded as much....and they had highly rated players fall into their laps that they liked in every round. Can't believe all the negativity, i for one love this class =P although i would've liked to have seen us pick up kendrick burney or herzlich or another RB.

Edit: Would have loved to see dion lewis on the team since he is kind of local, killed my HS in our super bowl..ah well i guess i'll boo him again now that he's on the eagles.

OSUGiants17
04-30-2011, 04:55 PM
Da'Rel Scott round 7 isn't terrible, but I doubt he makes the roster

BaLLiN
04-30-2011, 05:03 PM
Da'Rel Scott round 7 isn't terrible, but I doubt he makes the roster

we got the blazing fast RB we wanted...he just can't do much other than run fast in a straight line...

NY+Giants=NYG
04-30-2011, 05:20 PM
LOL. Have him fun crossing and streaks all day long and hope for the best.

BaLLiN
04-30-2011, 05:36 PM
his film doesn't look bad, but it is apparent that the lateral quickness just isnt there

BaLLiN
04-30-2011, 08:08 PM
My take on the draft:

1(19). Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska

- A CB was clearly not a need at the moment with two very good corners in Corey Webster and Terrell Thomas, but with Thomas and Ross (often injured) having contract years this next season as well as Bruce Johnson not contributing in 6 games before injury after a pretty good rookie season.

-Prince, Jimmy Smith, and Patrick Peterson were probably all relatively close as pure cornerback prospects. Smith and Peterson both had better numbers, although Prince seemed to be the more instinctive player of the three. The one difference between Prince and the other two is that he can play any coverage and play it very well whereas both do not do as well in off coverage.

-With Prince falling to 19 the Giants had no real other options left after Tyron Smith being picked and even Solder (who im sure no giants fan liked bc we have already had 2 project OT's that have not panned out just yet). Prince had to be the pick.

MY GRADE: A

2(52). Marvin Austin DT North Carolina

- DT is definitely a need with Bernard being awful (FA pickup 2 years ago from Seattle), Canty not being a traditional NT, Cofield being a FA and unlikely to come back after reportedly requesting a trade, and Linval Joseph barely getting any playing time.

- Austin could be among or even above the top two prospects as far as physical ability, but Austin has never put it together to live up to these great physical measures. He was not worth a top 15 pick, and if he had played i doubt he would've improved his stock. We can either MAKE a steal or have drafted a dud.

- Austin's abilities falling to that point and his potential make this pick interesting and because of our trust in our DL coaching it is easy for our GM and Coach to feel this is a steal.

MY GRADE: B (should be a 'grade pending')

3(83). Jerrel Jernigan WR Troy

- Value here no doubt, with Smith being a FA the FO might want to take proper precautions by drafting a replacement, but if not he is a sensational returner (we have not had one of these consistently for a long long long time) and another WR to prevent from having to sign guys off the street and not knowing the offense at all.

- Not a polished receiver, not a #1 by any means or a #2 option probably, but the slot position is rapidly increasing in impact in the NFL and he sure fits that position to a 'T'.

- Returner, Slot replacement potentially, and even a gadget player is another weapon that adds dimension to our offense, and keeps us from relying too much on one receiving threat as it seems we do with Nicks, Smith, and Mario way too often at times.

MY GRADE: B+

4(117). James Brewer OT Indiana

- 4th round is about good for him given his tag as a project player, thought it was a bit annoying that we continually pick these kind of players at OT instead of going out and getting a clearcut answer.

- Not a finished product but like a few others such as Gilbert, Solder, and even Franklin, has the tools to be a very good starter at left/right tackle.

- In a draft of a lot of good OT's but nothing spectacular such as a Jake Long or Joe Thomas it might make sense to stray away from taking a guy just based off of need and hoping he can do the job. Brewer seems more like a RT with his capability to be a very good run blocker, but also potential to be an LT with nimble feet being a former basketball player is a testament to his athleticism.

MY GRADE: B

6(185). Greg Jones LB Michigan State

- Value/Need combo, lucky that a linebacker with his ability fell this far when we didn't have a 5th, and with the lack of impressive interior linebackers it makes sense that we would not want to go for one early in this draft.

-Jones was considered to be a late 1st/early 2nd round pick with the season he had as a junior, but with size question marks (his weight and height) it was never really a complete evaluation. Jones although probably ranked as a mid round pick this year, is definitely going to outplay his draft position.

-Special teams, intermediate and middle of the field pass coverage, and especially pursuit have been areas of concern for us. Greg jones would make for an excellent special teams player, but I believe he could get playing time early because of his ability to play as a nickel linebacker (being a very good blitzer and fluid in coverage with long arms to make up for shortness) and one of his best attributes if not his best is his ability to close in a hurry which showed with his tackle numbers. I think this is the gem of our draft.

MY GRADE: A

6(198). Tyler Sash QB Iowa

- Safety really isn't a need in my opinion, but Kenny Phillips did have an injury that may bother him throughout his career without warning. Deon Grant (i think) and Michael Johnson are FA's and both had starting experience with us and did very good jobs for the most part, losing them and having a constant question mark in Phillips is not something you would like to leave without something to fall back on. Chad Jones would've been that support, but he had a possibly career ending car accident last year.

- Sash's biggest knock is athleticism, but his numbers, football instincts, and ball skills were among the best safeties in this draft. The sixth round was a slip too far for him, but the Giants definitely benefited.

-Sash will likely only be a special teams player and a backup, but he could see action because of Kenny's injury bothering him at any time, He needs to work on wrapping up, but with his instincts and ballskills getting a backup with the expense of a 6th round pick was great.

MY GRADE: A

6(202). Jacquain Williams LB USF

-Who dat? Who dere? Williams was a captain and through limited film looks like he is a special teamer, i doubt he will ever be more than that for us, but with limited resources on him and only a few years of major college football (he was a JUCO transfer) there is still alot to learn about his potential.

MY GRADE: B-

7(221). Da'Rel Scott RB Maryland

- RB is something we should look at with Bradshaw being a FA and possible intentions of letting Jacobs go because of his inconsistency. This will certainly not stop us from looking in FA, but if Bradshaw and Jacobs both are back he probably won't make the team.

- Scott was a highly touted RB coming into college, injuries put a damper on his development and his lateral mobility (ankle injury). He definitely is worth a flier because of his speed and completely clean profile. He seems like a very likeable guy coming from a hard situation with his parents, high character. He isn't Chris Johnson, but he could become a good change of pace guy if these injuries dont continue to be a trend.

MY GRADE: B

OVERALL GRADE: A-

Giantsfan1080
04-30-2011, 09:03 PM
I think you're nuts BBD. I can't believe you don't like this draft. This may wind being our best draft since Reese's first in 07. Don't forget we still have FA available and we'll probably go after a few offensive guys during that period. I'm ecstatic with the way things played out this week. I did want Greg Mcelroy though with our developmental QB pick that we usually make.

dannyz
04-30-2011, 09:06 PM
Anyone know what Prince's Number will be?

BaLLiN
04-30-2011, 10:00 PM
Anyone know what Prince's Number will be?

theyre arent many available numbers in the 20's but id guess he'd just go for an open number like 36 bc kenny isn't going to give up 21 bc of ST

JBCX
05-01-2011, 02:30 AM
Congratulations, guys, you won the draft. The only team in the NFC who came close to the Giants in quality picks this year were the Redskins and the Bucs.

Bostonblows91
05-01-2011, 10:34 AM
Congratulations, guys, you won the draft. The only team in the NFC who came close to the Giants in quality picks this year were the Redskins and the Bucs.

thought the lions did pretty well..

OSUGiants17
05-01-2011, 10:46 AM
Anyone know what Prince's Number will be?

My guess is he takes 20 once Johnson walks in FA. I say we target the following UDFA's once we can:
Herzlich
Lefeged(doubtful with the Sash pick though)
O'Dowd
Saunders

Get another LB with a great work ethic who went to BC, and will be better than Williams will be. Get a C who was a potential 3rd or 4th rounder at one point. And a TE who should have been drafted.

OSUGiants17
05-01-2011, 10:51 AM
Still don't know why we didn't take Noel Devine over Scott.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 11:02 AM
Still don't know why we didn't take Noel Devine over Scott.

i hear you man, i wanted it too, but devine is a douchebag to people and is arrogant because of his incredible ability. He needed a wakeup call and this is it, just hope he gets it. I doubt we bring him in but if we do it will be like christmas.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 11:36 AM
On the redskins extremeskins site, they were polling which NFC East team had the best draft, and surprise, surprise, they picked themselves, which was funny, but we were next as the best team.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 12:13 PM
On the redskins extremeskins site, they were polling which NFC East team had the best draft, and surprise, surprise, they picked themselves, which was funny, but we were next as the best team.

so your basically saying that we had the best draft right?

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 01:03 PM
so your basically saying that we had the best draft right?

In terms of value, yes. We still have to wait to see how the needs are filled and what happens next. I think we screwed the offensively side of the ball by not upgrading, but got to wait and see how FA shakes up.

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 01:12 PM
My guess is he takes 20 once Johnson walks in FA. I say we target the following UDFA's once we can:
Herzlich
Lefeged(doubtful with the Sash pick though)
O'Dowd
Saunders

Get another LB with a great work ethic who went to BC, and will be better than Williams will be. Get a C who was a potential 3rd or 4th rounder at one point. And a TE who should have been drafted.

Will Herzlich be better than Williams though? I see a special teams captain, a guy who leads that unit both vocally and with his ability to fly around and make tackles. We all love our CHase Blackburns but Chase is slow, whereas this kid can really run. With how pathetic our special teams was last year I'd love to get a guy who can really boost that unit and get them to stop ******** the bed. Between him Sash and Greg Jones I think Reece and co where looking for an impact special teamer, Jernigan and the possible return of Hixon give us the quality return men we need, now we need just need to get some guys out there who can stop opposing return men and between those 3 late round defenders we should be able to find at least one who can give us that quality special teams play we lacked last year.

I like Herzlich and would love us to bring him in, but you really can't expect him to ever become the athlete he used to be and if he's not then is he really an upgrade over a high character guy with good size like Chase?

I really want us to bring in O'Dowd but we won't, this'll be the third straight year the giants have a chance to bring in the late round/UDFA C I want them to and they won't. Just like always so I guess we're stuck hoping Koets can get healthy and stay healthy because I'm sold on his ability to become Shaun O'Hara 2.0 because if that happens I'm happy with a Beatty-Diehl-Koets-Snee-McKenzie line this before kicking Diehl over to RT once McKenzie or Petrus' play necessitate it giving us a pretty young line of Beatty-Petrus-Koets-Snee-Diehl with a potential David Diehl replacement already on the roster.

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 01:17 PM
In terms of value, yes. We still have to wait to see how the needs are filled and what happens next. I think we screwed the offensively side of the ball by not upgrading, but got to wait and see how FA shakes up.

If we bring back Ahmad and Steve Smith I'll be happy with the offense provided we can avoid having injuries wipe out an entire unit again. I'm crossing my fingers that Koets and Beatty have healthy seasons because I think those two will be a big help to this team if they pull that off, if we stick David D between them and Snee on Koets' other flank I think both players can have really impressive seasons provided they stay on the field. As for our Depth I like Petrus, there's always #69 and now we have Brewer. I'd like to see if we can find another guy in FA who can give us better depth or at least replace Shawn Andrews as our hopeless rehabilitation attempt although I don't know who exactly would be available who could help us with that.

Also I expect our passing game to be a lot better since injuries can't possibly hit us that badly two years in a row at the same position, plus the kids have another year of learning this system so I expect to see a stark reduction in the number of misreads from Hakeem Nicks, plus we get Barden back, Cruz back plus Jernigan who gives us a receiver not named Mario Manningham who has the ability to take any catch in space to the house. So I think our running game will have less pressure on it which should mean beefier holes for Ahmad/Jacobs/Scott. Plus we still don't know if the team shocks everyone by shelling out for D-Will. Stick him back there with a battering ram like Jacobs and speedster like Scott backing him up and our running game will be very very good even if Beatty still hasn't bulked up.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 01:44 PM
http://replay.web.archive.org/20070427011311/http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/darrellerevis.html

http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/CB/Prince-Amukamara.php

i know prince wasn't a returner and probably doesn't have the ballskills that revis has, but he is more refined and has more quality experience against better teams, although he doesn't have the highlight reel, he was forced to lock up with a receiver without any help. Ive been seeing 4.38 for prince's 40 time but scott has 4.43

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 01:52 PM
Amukamara seems like a carbon copy of the player Web has become just a little taller with shorter arms. Not great at bringing down picks, but great at sticking with guys in whatever type of coverage you ask without having "running away from the cops speed" and does a great job of disrupting completions. A guy who'll come up and be physical, not miss tackles but isn't a behemoth so sometimes just can't match up physical with some of the freaks that play WR now-a-days.

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 02:09 PM
well with all the pressure we're going to be putting on QB's with tuck, osi, JPP, canty and austin, our stellar secondary will have some good chances for picks.

re-sign Bradshaw, Boss and Smith. win

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 02:13 PM
I'm really curious to find out what the price difference between Bradshaw and D-Will is gunna be, I love Ahmad but if it's not that big of a difference I do love DeAngelo more.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 02:21 PM
I'm really curious to find out what the price difference between Bradshaw and D-Will is gunna be, I love Ahmad but if it's not that big of a difference I do love DeAngelo more.

I do love D Will but i want Bradshaw back because of team chemistry, familiarity with the offense, and because he will probably be cheaper. Get rid of Jacobs instead, he is undependable although he presents such a fear for DB's and even LB's, i just cant take the horrible lateral quickness that he has yet he tries to function as a shifty back.

Ricky Williams would be interesting, but didnt he have an injury?

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 02:33 PM
If we bring back Ahmad and Steve Smith I'll be happy with the offense provided we can avoid having injuries wipe out an entire unit again. I'm crossing my fingers that Koets and Beatty have healthy seasons because I think those two will be a big help to this team if they pull that off, if we stick David D between them and Snee on Koets' other flank I think both players can have really impressive seasons provided they stay on the field. As for our Depth I like Petrus, there's always #69 and now we have Brewer. I'd like to see if we can find another guy in FA who can give us better depth or at least replace Shawn Andrews as our hopeless rehabilitation attempt although I don't know who exactly would be available who could help us with that.

Also I expect our passing game to be a lot better since injuries can't possibly hit us that badly two years in a row at the same position, plus the kids have another year of learning this system so I expect to see a stark reduction in the number of misreads from Hakeem Nicks, plus we get Barden back, Cruz back plus Jernigan who gives us a receiver not named Mario Manningham who has the ability to take any catch in space to the house. So I think our running game will have less pressure on it which should mean beefier holes for Ahmad/Jacobs/Scott. Plus we still don't know if the team shocks everyone by shelling out for D-Will. Stick him back there with a battering ram like Jacobs and speedster like Scott backing him up and our running game will be very very good even if Beatty still hasn't bulked up.



We need our OL to get a push though. If they are hurt or not up to par or simply age now has kicked in, we are in deep trouble running the ball. That's our offensive identity. RUN the ball and CONTROL the clock. If we can't do that, then we are a one dimensional offense then.

We need to make sure our OL is ready. If not, then fill it via FA.

I won't put anything past this team in the injury dept. This team has shown that injuries can truly kill a season, especially 2nd half of it. It eats away at 1 position and has been doing so when Tim Lewis and Hufangel were our coordinators.

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 04:16 PM
Yeah, but sooner or later we'll manage to spread our injuries around different positions and not have a whole unit wiped out. Maybe this is the year? With the versatility of Diehl, Petrus, Seubert and Shaw Andrews' injured back we could handle an injury along the OL we just can't handle everybody getting injured along the OL. Same with WR we're deep there, Smith, Nicks, Mario, Barden, Cruz, Jernigan and maybe Hixon or Devin Thomas, that's a deep group we just can't have everyone except Mario get injured at the same time.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 04:38 PM
Yeah, but sooner or later we'll manage to spread our injuries around different positions and not have a whole unit wiped out. Maybe this is the year? With the versatility of Diehl, Petrus, Seubert and Shaw Andrews' injured back we could handle an injury along the OL we just can't handle everybody getting injured along the OL. Same with WR we're deep there, Smith, Nicks, Mario, Barden, Cruz, Jernigan and maybe Hixon or Devin Thomas, that's a deep group we just can't have everyone except Mario get injured at the same time.

Am I alone in thinking that Andrews could be our LT? i know he has frequent back spasms, but when he plays you cant help but be impressed. He is not only very good at pass protection, he is a dominant run blocker.

Edit:

Andrews/Beatty-Diehl-Koets-Snee-Andrews/McKenzie

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 04:42 PM
in terms of talent, he easily could be. but his back is a ticking time bomb, which is sad.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 04:47 PM
Yeah, but sooner or later we'll manage to spread our injuries around different positions and not have a whole unit wiped out. Maybe this is the year? With the versatility of Diehl, Petrus, Seubert and Shaw Andrews' injured back we could handle an injury along the OL we just can't handle everybody getting injured along the OL. Same with WR we're deep there, Smith, Nicks, Mario, Barden, Cruz, Jernigan and maybe Hixon or Devin Thomas, that's a deep group we just can't have everyone except Mario get injured at the same time.

It's been later apparently because I am still waiting...

Panthers playoff game..

Signing Lbs off the street

Then CBs

DEs got hurt

RBs got hurt

safeties

OL and WR

What next now?

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 04:48 PM
in terms of talent, he easily could be. but his back is a ticking time bomb, which is sad.

well we have to take a chance on someone at LT, should it be the guy who clearly has the skill to play and the experience at the NFL level in that position or the guy who showed some flashes but hasn't bulked up or been as impressive?

I want Beatty to be our guy because he has definitely improved with some playing time right before our very eyes, but he hasn't bulked up last we saw him and Andrews is definitely the superior player at this point. Our line would be absolutely killer like this:

Andrews-Diehl-Koets-Snee-McKenzie

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 04:50 PM
McK with back spams... Koets at center? Good god... Andrews with his back issues at LT? My god, that's not a solid OL. Snee is pro bowl guy, and David D will be solid, but everyone else I would be worried about,

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 05:13 PM
yea I think it's beatty's time now. McKenzie's back held up last year...so I'm not exactly expecting it again. I'm praying O'Hara is fully healthy and can play well this year and groom Petrus as our future Center. him or Koets, and if it's koets than work on Petrus for LG future

OSUGiants17
05-01-2011, 05:50 PM
BTW, Can't wait for this potential LB class next year:
Vontaze Burfict
Manti Te'o
Luke Kuechly
Shayne Skov
Travis Lewis
Courtney Upshaw
Don'ta Hightower
Zach Brown
Tank Carder
Sean Spence
Nico Johnson
Nigel Bradham
Chris Galippo

Malaka
05-01-2011, 05:55 PM
That's the sole reason I wasn't too miffed when the Giants' didn't select a linebacker till Greg Jones in the 6th.

I like Jones, what do the rest of you think of him? If Bryan Kehl was a decent back-up for us, I think just off talent this guy could be even more. At worst a solid back-up/special teamer like Greisen was and Blackburn is.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 06:04 PM
BTW, Can't wait for this potential LB class next year:
Vontaze Burfict
Manti Te'o
Luke Kuechly
Shayne Skov
Travis Lewis
Courtney Upshaw
Don'ta Hightower
Zach Brown
Tank Carder
Sean Spence
Nico Johnson
Nigel Bradham
Chris Galippo


NO! lol. No more damn LBs! Let's make due with what we have and see what we got.

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 06:05 PM
hahahaha Banning's desire for us to draft an offensive player (right now it'd have to be RB or OL) in the first round next year is climbing up to the levels that I want us to draft a Rutgers player

Giantsfan1080
05-01-2011, 06:20 PM
Let's not forget we'll also probably try and sign some OL in FA. Our roster is going to be stacked.

OSUGiants17
05-01-2011, 06:41 PM
If we re-sign Bradshaw, Smith, Boss. Sign a OL, a few UDFAs and make a run for Tulloch or Poz we could be a top 2 team in the NFC. Sadly the odds of half of that coming true is slim. Realistically we will probably only re-sign 2 of those guys and won't have the money for Tulloch or Poz.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 07:15 PM
I dont think any of those three would leave unless we low balled them, so its realistic that we resign them. However Cofield, Grant, Johnson, and Boothe are probably not coming back. Wilkinson, Blackburn, and Kiwanuka are the question marks i feel like

Bostonblows91
05-01-2011, 07:49 PM
am i the only one here that is starting to paint the picture "Steve smith is SERIOUSLY hurt"?

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 07:50 PM
hahahaha Banning's desire for us to draft an offensive player (right now it'd have to be RB or OL) in the first round next year is climbing up to the levels that I want us to draft a Rutgers player

What is it now? 6/7 drafts we drafted defensive first rounders...I am just tired of it.

Giantsfan1080
05-01-2011, 08:02 PM
Like I said before the draft it's been our defense that has let us down the last 2 years. I don't see a problem in bolstering that through the draft.

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 11:48 PM
BTW, Can't wait for this potential LB class next year:
Vontaze Burfict
Manti Te'o
Luke Kuechly
Shayne Skov
Travis Lewis
Courtney Upshaw
Don'ta Hightower
Zach Brown
Tank Carder
Sean Spence
Nico Johnson
Nigel Bradham
Chris Galippo

Kuechly is the only guy I've seen much of outside of Hightower and neither guy really impresses me, Kuechly is a good athlete who gets in on a lot of tackles but doesn't make many stand out plays and Hightower seems very stiff.

Jughead10
05-02-2011, 08:26 AM
Like I said before the draft it's been our defense that has let us down the last 2 years. I don't see a problem in bolstering that through the draft.

Plus in my opinion defensive depth is more important because of the variety of packages and substitutes that actually play. OL depth only becomes important because of injury. If all 5 starters are healthy, no one else plays except for a maybe another tackle a few plays a game. We wave in groups of defensive players all game.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-02-2011, 10:30 AM
Like I said before the draft it's been our defense that has let us down the last 2 years. I don't see a problem in bolstering that through the draft.

So has injuries and musical defensive coordinators. I don't think we are buggered talent wise. I think too much instability coaching wise, add injuries and get you get a mess.

Rosebud
05-02-2011, 11:08 AM
So has injuries and musical defensive coordinators. I don't think we are buggered talent wise. I think too much instability coaching wise, add injuries and get you get a mess.

Yeah, but adding talent is the best way to overcome coaching instability and injuries.

BigBlueNorwegian
05-02-2011, 02:12 PM
Kuechly is the only guy I've seen much of outside of Hightower and neither guy really impresses me, Kuechly is a good athlete who gets in on a lot of tackles but doesn't make many stand out plays and Hightower seems very stiff.


The only Guy I've seen is Burfict. And I LOVE him! He's such a nasty, physical and dominant player! If we have a chance, we HAVE to draft him!

Loved our draft btw, I think JR did the right thing when he decided to go BPA almost every pick. It seemed to me as though some of the other teams reached more than they would other years because of the lack of a Free Agency before the draft. I think we had the better approach, Get value in the draft, and address any remaining needs in FA.

Jughead10
05-02-2011, 02:36 PM
The only Guy I've seen is Burfict. And I LOVE him! He's such a nasty, physical and dominant player! If we have a chance, we HAVE to draft him!

Loved our draft btw, I think JR did the right thing when he decided to go BPA almost every pick. It seemed to me as though some of the other teams reached more than they would other years because of the lack of a Free Agency before the draft. I think we had the better approach, Get value in the draft, and address any remaining needs in FA.

Coughlin said on the radio today they thought that the reach run on QBs could happen, and they were thrilled that it did because they knew a very good player would fall to 19 who in most years would likely not be there.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-02-2011, 02:40 PM
Yeah, but adding talent is the best way to overcome coaching instability and injuries.

No way, you can add all the talent you want, is the scheme sucks, there will be a trickle down effect. Morale drops, and frustration sets in. Then you worry about players acting out or flat giving up on you. Perfect example, Sheridan. He stunk, and Osi acted out. Last couple games the defense mailed it in. Doesn't matter if you have a team of superstars. They are not going to play or try when they don't believe in the DC and system.

Tim lewis is another example. Webster probably gets cut if Lewis is our DC. He used to rip into Webster, and then Spags came, and Webster was utilized correctly. The talent was there, but used wrong.

Same flip side, you can be talented but a good or excellent DC/OC can bring out more than the existing talent should.

That's the power of coaching and getting players to buy in.

BigBlueNorwegian
05-02-2011, 03:09 PM
Coughlin said on the radio today they thought that the reach run on QBs could happen, and they were thrilled that it did because they knew a very good player would fall to 19 who in most years would likely not be there.

Yeah, and that was great for us!I think Amukamara would have been a top 10-15 player in other drafts, but we got him at 19. Great job of staying true to your board by the Giants!

I'm already starting to get pumped for the season, seriously considering flying over this season to watch a game live at the stadium, but the damn lockout keeps me from being able to plan anything yet:(

Giantsfan1080
05-02-2011, 03:49 PM
The LB from BC is one to watch all year as well. I can't think of his name right now but he has a non stop motor and seems to be a little crazy which I like in my defensive players.

Rosebud
05-02-2011, 04:18 PM
No way, you can add all the talent you want, is the scheme sucks, there will be a trickle down effect. Morale drops, and frustration sets in. Then you worry about players acting out or flat giving up on you. Perfect example, Sheridan. He stunk, and Osi acted out. Last couple games the defense mailed it in. Doesn't matter if you have a team of superstars. They are not going to play or try when they don't believe in the DC and system.

Tim lewis is another example. Webster probably gets cut if Lewis is our DC. He used to rip into Webster, and then Spags came, and Webster was utilized correctly. The talent was there, but used wrong.

Same flip side, you can be talented but a good or excellent DC/OC can bring out more than the existing talent should.

That's the power of coaching and getting players to buy in.

Sure, but if we don't have that consistent coaching what are you going to do? The Ravens are one of the only teams that comes to mind who were able to put together an elite d despite cycling through DC and they pulled it off through a tremendous talent level and great leadership from guys like Ray ray. Sure I'd rather just have Spags back for life, but as long as Coughlin's the HC we're not going to be able to hang onto a great DC for long, and the only way we can really combat that is by hiring less impressive DCs, who won't be able to leave for HC jobs, or by continuing to raise the talent level to lessen our need for a great DC.

bigbluedefense
05-02-2011, 04:30 PM
I like our draft...the reason why I'm giving it a B-/C+ is bc of Marvin Austin.

I'm just not thrilled with the pick. Our draft grade in my eyes all rests with him. If he winds up being a stud, this draft is an A. But I just don't see it.

I was open to the idea of Austin, bc I felt that if our organization took the gamble on him, it's bc they really did their hw and feel they can mold him into a beast.

But the problem I'm having is I keep trying to sell myself on Austin, but I just can't seem to do it. The guy gets dominated by double teams, plays high, poor motor, constant underachiever, character issues. I just don't see it.

Then all of a sudden, looks good in shorts at the combine and dominates the East West Shrine game bc it's time to get paid, and I'm supposed to be sold on that? That worries me.

He has a lot of Albert Haynesworth in him. A lot. Those are the same exact reasons why I didn't want Nick Fairley. Austin is Fairley on steroids.

I hope I'm wrong, but Austin makes me nervous. I see 2 solid contributors from this draft, Prince and Jerrigan. Jones could be a solid backup, possibly more. We won't know anything about Brewer until 2 years from now.

If Austin becomes what he could be, we had a great draft. But if he doesnt, this might be a mediocre one.

bigbluedefense
05-02-2011, 05:02 PM
I heard the LB from BC is the bees knees. I'm gonna try to check him out this coming year.

One thing is for sure, LB is without question our biggest need moving forward.

I would say OL too, but it is yet to be seen how our young guns along the oline play this year. I have faith in Koets and Petrus. The jury is still out on Beatty. If Beatty pans out and Koets is healthy, we'll be fine.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 05:15 PM
I have watched almost all of those LBs and would love to have Burfict, Keuchly or Te'o as our MIKE, I have watched them the closest and Keuchly would be perfect for us. Carder would be a great pick to. That potential class is just huge and I look forward to watching them closer next season and figuring out who really is best for our system.

Giantsfan1080
05-02-2011, 05:25 PM
I love Carder also from TCU.

It seems like we really used the end of the draft to strengthen our ST back up. All the players besides Scott should be pretty good on specials.

D-Unit
05-02-2011, 06:54 PM
So how are my favorite non-Cowboys group of posters feelin' post draft?

bigbluedefense
05-02-2011, 07:10 PM
I respect what Reese did a lot. I'm just nervous about Austin.

And I probably would have went with Foster over Jerrigan. But Jerrigan wasn't a bad pick at all.

I wouldve went Paea in the 2nd too.

D-Unit
05-02-2011, 07:57 PM
I respect what Reese did a lot. I'm just nervous about Austin.

And I probably would have went with Foster over Jerrigan. But Jerrigan wasn't a bad pick at all.

I wouldve went Paea in the 2nd too.
I know what you mean BBD. We all question picks though. We all think we know better. haha. Did I want Bruce Carter in Round 2??? HELL NO. But I do have an open mind about it, so until they bust, it's hard to crucify them on the Monday following draft weekend.

As for you guys taking Austin... the player isn't bad at all, imo. I really liked him in fact. He's a guy I liked for the Cowboys in Round 2 and I mentioned that prior to our pick in that round. Unfortunately, our team didn't like him as much as I did. I was thinking of him as a 5 tech though... and honestly, he's not the best 5 tech fit... In the 4-3, that's where his fit and value truly is. When you guys got him, I was like "UGH... damn." Because now we have to face him! My only surprise is that you guys took a guy with the "bad character" label.

Foster was overrated on this forum by many. I for one was not a fan. I'd be surprised if he was anything more than an avg LB. I'll be surprised if he has a long career. Jernigan on the other hand is a guy I LOVE! Outside of Nicks, he's already your best receiver. Love him in the slot. I'm gonna compare his career to Dwyane Harris who we took in Round 6. Both have similar styles of play.

http://www.tigerrag.com/wp-content/uploads/jernigan_jerral.jpg vs . http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/84/843634.jpg

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:10 PM
WalterFootball's thoughts on Brewer
Surprise, surprise, Jerry Reese makes another incredible pick. James Brewer could have gone as high as the end of Round 2, so this is yet another steal. Brewer could eventually protect Eli Manning's blind side. (Pick Grade: A)

Never heard the guy as a round 2 talent before, but if he really is and could become our LT or RT of the future that would be awesome.

Giantsfan1080
05-03-2011, 07:59 AM
I know what you mean BBD. We all question picks though. We all think we know better. haha. Did I want Bruce Carter in Round 2??? HELL NO. But I do have an open mind about it, so until they bust, it's hard to crucify them on the Monday following draft weekend.

As for you guys taking Austin... the player isn't bad at all, imo. I really liked him in fact. He's a guy I liked for the Cowboys in Round 2 and I mentioned that prior to our pick in that round. Unfortunately, our team didn't like him as much as I did. I was thinking of him as a 5 tech though... and honestly, he's not the best 5 tech fit... In the 4-3, that's where his fit and value truly is. When you guys got him, I was like "UGH... damn." Because now we have to face him! My only surprise is that you guys took a guy with the "bad character" label.

Foster was overrated on this forum by many. I for one was not a fan. I'd be surprised if he was anything more than an avg LB. I'll be surprised if he has a long career. Jernigan on the other hand is a guy I LOVE! Outside of Nicks, he's already your best receiver. Love him in the slot. I'm gonna compare his career to Dwyane Harris who we took in Round 6. Both have similar styles of play.

http://www.tigerrag.com/wp-content/uploads/jernigan_jerral.jpg vs . http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/84/843634.jpg

I love the Jernigan pick but no D, just no. He's not going to be any better of a slot WR than Smith already is. Manningham even with all his dumb moves still has put up big numbers the last 2 years. I don't know what it is with you calling WR's better than other before they have done nothing in the NFL.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-03-2011, 08:08 AM
Sure, but if we don't have that consistent coaching what are you going to do? The Ravens are one of the only teams that comes to mind who were able to put together an elite d despite cycling through DC and they pulled it off through a tremendous talent level and great leadership from guys like Ray ray. Sure I'd rather just have Spags back for life, but as long as Coughlin's the HC we're not going to be able to hang onto a great DC for long, and the only way we can really combat that is by hiring less impressive DCs, who won't be able to leave for HC jobs, or by continuing to raise the talent level to lessen our need for a great DC.


The staff has to find a way to bring consistency on that side of the ball. The Bucs, Eagles and Steelers did it for a long time. The Steelers are still doing it with LeBeau there. That's a HUGE part of their success. That side of the ball is stable!

We need to hire someone with no intention of bring a HC. Someone who did that already and now realizes that is not his strength. Another thing is they need to stop hiring flat out bad DCs. Look at this list.

Lynn
Lewis
Spags
Sheridan
Fewell

Lynn, Lewis, and Sheridan were terrible! Can we stop hiring lemons and actually bring in good coordinators? That's why I said it doesn't matter how much talent you bring if the system is flawed to begin with. That means the system is dictating what the talent should do, where to line up, and how, and where to blitz. If the system is flawed, then your talented group would be out of position. They get beat, they get down on themselves and the system, and hence they don't buy in. That's when you get a whole side of the ball give up on the coach, like the defense did with Sheridan.

This is a huge problem. If Fewell gets a HCing job next year, we are back to square 1 again, having to hire a new DC and implement a new system.

Giantsfan1080
05-03-2011, 08:41 AM
I don't think Fewell has been bad. One of the problem with having a successful defense is that the DC's are going to looked at as head coaches. What else can we do about that?

bigbluedefense
05-03-2011, 03:54 PM
Fewell fell off a bit after the bye week. He went to a lot more Tampa coverage and he didn't switch up his blitzes and offenses figured him out.

He's not a blitzing coordinator. He has some blitzes, but the great blitzing coordinators can cook up new blitz packages each week. They cater their defense around attacking protection schemes. That's what Rex does. He designs his blitzes and his defense around attacking protection schemes.

Fewell isn't that guy. He's a Tampa guy. He's about coverage more than blitzing. Zone coverage in particular. He's not the best fit for our personnel.

However, he's not a terrible DC either. He's solid. He's just not the right "fit" if you will for what our defense should be doing.

Let's see what he does this year. We have more than enough talent to be a top 5 defense in the league. But Fewell has to do a better job of drawing up blitzes and be more aggressive.

Especially with our secondary. If our secondary is healthy, and if KP can elevate his game after a year post microfracture surgery, then we have no excuse not to bring the heat.

Vick2Jackson
05-03-2011, 05:43 PM
guys, how we going to stop DEZ,MILES, JONES, AND MURRAY? We're ******.

BTW, good draft for you guys this year.

BaLLiN
05-03-2011, 05:55 PM
guys, how we going to stop DEZ,MILES, JONES, AND MURRAY? We're ******.

BTW, good draft for you guys this year.

Dez- Corey Webster/Prince our two best man to man corners. Good physical matchup bc of their size + speed + fluidity

Miles- Corey Webster/Prince same reasoning

Jones + Murray - both are speedsters that aren't very good inside the tackles, having linebackers that can keep them from turning the corner will be crucial but even then we have 5 amazingly adept tacklers in our secondary.

so how are you going to defend Nicks, Smith, Manningham, Boss, Jernigan with the DB's you have? it'll be tough especially with Mikell maybe leaving and no clearcut starter at FS or CB2

Vick2Jackson
05-03-2011, 06:06 PM
Dez- Corey Webster/Prince our two best man to man corners. Good physical matchup bc of their size + speed + fluidity

Miles- Corey Webster/Prince same reasoning

Jones + Murray - both are speedsters that aren't very good inside the tackles, having linebackers that can keep them from turning the corner will be crucial but even then we have 5 amazingly adept tacklers in our secondary.

so how are you going to defend Nicks, Smith, Manningham, Boss, Jernigan with the DB's you have? it'll be tough especially with Mikell maybe leaving and no clearcut starter at FS or CB2

Dez is Dallas' best receiver IMO. He's unbelievable. I don't know if Prince can handle him. And wasn't it Webster who Dez embarassed last time you guys played?

Miles same thing.. top 8 WR. You're counting on a rookie? You see what Blackmon did to him? Imagine what Miles would do... Don't know much about Webster.

Jones+Murray are very alike. Who are your linebackers? Hopefully theyre pretty athletic to do what you just explained... and I think Murray is underestimated between the tackles. JMO.

Lastly, that O you have is good. I still think Dallas' is much better... definitely top 2 in the division, though. I'd be more scared of them. Don't know how we're going to stop either of you guys TBH. Dez and Nicks will physically abuse Samuel.... Patterson is ****... Jarret at SS? Fail. Nate Allen is our best man in the secondary. We'll see. Its going to be tough for us this year. And Washington.. LOL. The laughing stock.

scottyboy
05-03-2011, 06:30 PM
when did Dez embarass anyone in our secondary? like when he had 7 total catches in the 2 games against us? oh, ok.

the only "embarassing" Dex did to us was on special teams. the kid's talented, but it's getting old with literally everyone riding his jock.

BaLLiN
05-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Dez is Dallas' best receiver IMO. He's unbelievable. I don't know if Prince can handle him.
with a broken ankle last season idk if dez is 100%, even so prince has the tools to go head to head with him and limit him quite a bit, definitely not close to the numbers that he had against us last season.


And wasn't it Webster who Dez embarassed last time you guys played?

No, that was Terrel Thomas who was laid out to dry for most of that going 1 on 1 with him. Thomas's forte isn't man to man and that was shown in many games this past year.


Miles same thing.. top 8 WR. You're counting on a rookie? You see what Blackmon did to him? Imagine what Miles would do... Don't know much about Webster.

I would love to count on a rookie if its prince, with a DL like we have and OL that they have their passes will have to be relatively quick and if we're putting him 1 on 1 with miles he will be able to keep him from doing much especially with a safety over the top which is very likely what we would do in such a situation.

Jones+Murray are very alike. Who are your linebackers? Hopefully theyre pretty athletic to do what you just explained... and I think Murray is underestimated between the tackles. JMO.

Right now we have Boley, Wilkinson, and Greg Jones as the only three that would be able to cut them off from turning the corner with ease, but i think we go after a lb of that fit in FA.


Lastly, that O you have is good. I still think Dallas' is much better... definitely top 2 in the division, though. I'd be more scared of them. Don't know how we're going to stop either of you guys TBH. Dez and Nicks will physically abuse Samuel.... Patterson is ****... Jarret at SS? Fail. Nate Allen is our best man in the secondary. We'll see. Its going to be tough for us this year. And Washington.. LOL. The laughing stock.

Their line doesn't scare me one bit, although they have a stable of runningbacks they dont look to be a team fit to run the ball and enforce their will on us. Their receivers (Roy being inconsistent, Dez coming back from injury, but Miles is sold) are all good, but i think with the 4 corners that have starting ability and the rest of our defense with the exception of our LB's (right now b4 FA) have the capability to keep them from killing us.

its always a shootout, but with our offense coming back strong it looks like (smith had a bad injury the end of the year and most of our WR's got injured last year yet still produced).

Nate Allen tore his ACL right? yeah that secondary looks pretty bad, you might be in the bidding for Nnamdi though.

villagewarrior
05-04-2011, 03:37 AM
I love what the Giants did with Amukamara, Jernigan and Brewer. I don't know if Brewer played well enough to warrant a second round grade, but he's got the physical ability to be worth well higher than a 4th round pick. Amukamara speaks for himself and every team needs those speedy game-breaking athletes like Jernigan. I don't like Austin. I haven't seen much of North Carolina, but I never really saw him stand out like a recruit of his stature should. I like the Jones pick, he screams Giants linebacker to me. Sash and Scott should be good depth/special teams guys.

LonghornsLegend
05-04-2011, 03:58 AM
with a broken ankle last season idk if dez is 100%

That injury happened in like November. Unless there is a game within the next few weeks I don't know why this is even relevant. But that being said, the Giants have the best secondary in the division by a long shot and it's not even close. They are the only team that should be able to slow up some of the high passing attacks if they are healthy.


Everyone else is gonna get torched and need to score points.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-04-2011, 06:27 AM
That injury happened in like November. Unless there is a game within the next few weeks I don't know why this is even relevant. But that being said, the Giants have the best secondary in the division by a long shot and it's not even close. They are the only team that should be able to slow up some of the high passing attacks if they are healthy.


Everyone else is gonna get torched and need to score points.

Which is why we keep drafting defense for the last 7 years. If our prospects pan out we can be in good shape. JPP and Linval Joseph need to emerge. Austin and Prince will be in the mix. Our hurt LBs should do something. We gotta see if we re-sign Kiwi. If so, then add another pass rusher to the mix.

Main thing is the DC. 2nd year in the system, hopefully helps our guys. We also play a 3 safety nickel, so now we drafted Sash SS, so he can split time with Deon Grant.

I expect us to be better on defense.

Vick2Jackson
05-04-2011, 04:00 PM
when did Dez embarass anyone in our secondary? like when he had 7 total catches in the 2 games against us? oh, ok.

the only "embarassing" Dex did to us was on special teams. the kid's talented, but it's getting old with literally everyone riding his jock.

Yeah, like when he had 160 yards and 3 td's. Stop making it seem like he didn't do anything. Plus he had that 60 yard bomb that should have been a catch. Yeah, uh ok.

From a talent standpoint he's a top 10 WR RIGHT NOW. When he gets his head screwed on just watch out... coming from an Eagles fan.

Look what he did this year playing 54% of total snaps.

scottyboy
05-04-2011, 08:06 PM
Yeah, like when he had 160 yards and 3 td's. Stop making it seem like he didn't do anything. Plus he had that 60 yard bomb that should have been a catch. Yeah, uh ok.

From a talent standpoint he's a top 10 WR RIGHT NOW. When he gets his head screwed on just watch out... coming from an Eagles fan.

Look what he did this year playing 54% of total snaps.

over 2 games. those numbers are hardly "embarassing". and one TD was on a screen. one was a long play where he torched Thomas (who had a pretty bad year while we're on the DB topic).
and what does "should have' been a catch mean? shoulda. woulda. coulda.

in terms of physical attributes? yea, he's a top 10 WR but let's seem him do a little more before everyone crowns his ass after what? 11 games? he had a pretty good and impressive rookie year, but with the Giants pash rush and now pushing elite secondary, I'm not overally worried.
the only thing that worries me is Fewell...
god, imagine Spags with this D? he took us to the Super bowl starting guys like Geoffery Pope and Reggie Torbor and rookie Aaron Ross

scottyboy
05-04-2011, 08:07 PM
Which is why we keep drafting defense for the last 7 years. If our prospects pan out we can be in good shape. JPP and Linval Joseph need to emerge. Austin and Prince will be in the mix. Our hurt LBs should do something. We gotta see if we re-sign Kiwi. If so, then add another pass rusher to the mix.

Main thing is the DC. 2nd year in the system, hopefully helps our guys. We also play a 3 safety nickel, so now we drafted Sash SS, so he can split time with Deon Grant.

I expect us to be better on defense.

with the 3 safety nickel I expect someone like TT or Ross to get moved to safety is Grant walks. Not sure if they'd throw Sash in there at that spot, especially with our depth, talent and size at CB

Giantsfan1080
05-04-2011, 08:08 PM
You're better off not thinking about Spags with this defense. It only leads to frustration and sadness to imagine what he could do for us this year.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-09-2011, 10:48 AM
with the 3 safety nickel I expect someone like TT or Ross to get moved to safety is Grant walks. Not sure if they'd throw Sash in there at that spot, especially with our depth, talent and size at CB

Ross or Reese said Sash will be used for that. We also have that LSU LB who is really fast and good in coverage.

BaLLiN
05-09-2011, 04:06 PM
Ross or Reese said Sash will be used for that. We also have that LSU LB who is really fast and good in coverage.

You mean Chad Jones? the safety? he's still in the process of recovering from that nasty car crash.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-10-2011, 01:56 PM
You mean Chad Jones? the safety? he's still in the process of recovering from that nasty car crash.

No, This new LB in the 6th round. Reese and Ross talked about him.

Giantsfan1080
05-10-2011, 02:27 PM
MSU not LSU.

BaLLiN
05-10-2011, 08:01 PM
No, This new LB in the 6th round. Reese and Ross talked about him.

alright since we didnt have any linebackers from LSU i had no idea what was being talked about, but are we talking about Greg Jones Michigan St. or J. Williams USF?

i think jones is more experienced in coverage, but Williams has the speed and fluidity to be good in coverage. Williams looks good on film, not just highlights. I dont see how he and Greg Jones don't contend for starting spots earlier on unless Sintim is still a LB and shows he is good enough in coverage.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-11-2011, 01:18 PM
alright since we didnt have any linebackers from LSU i had no idea what was being talked about, but are we talking about Greg Jones Michigan St. or J. Williams USF?

i think jones is more experienced in coverage, but Williams has the speed and fluidity to be good in coverage. Williams looks good on film, not just highlights. I dont see how he and Greg Jones don't contend for starting spots earlier on unless Sintim is still a LB and shows he is good enough in coverage.

Haha damn i botched that one up.. I meant Williams from USF. Some reason I thought he was from LSU, which is probably because I got it confused with MSU, and figured that was LSU, but for Williams.

But yes USF LB is the guy Reese and Ross talking about.

Rosebud
05-12-2011, 01:02 AM
Haha damn i botched that one up.. I meant Williams from USF. Some reason I thought he was from LSU, which is probably because I got it confused with MSU, and figured that was LSU, but for Williams.

But yes USF LB is the guy Reese and Ross talking about.

He does look really smooth out there. He's a small guy for a LB though and I haven't seen enough of him to comment on his instincts, but he looks like a gamer who could be a stud on specials and work his way into the second nickel backer spot next to Boley.

JBCX
05-13-2011, 05:49 PM
Greg Jones is going to be an All-Pro MLB for the Giants in the next 5 years.

That's right, not just a Pro Bowler, but an All-Pro. That defensive line is going to allow him to rack up 120+ tackles every year.

Rosebud
05-13-2011, 05:59 PM
Greg Jones is going to be an All-Pro MLB for the Giants in the next 5 years.

That's right, not just a Pro Bowler, but an All-Pro. That defensive line is going to allow him to rack up 120+ tackles every year.

*shrug* I'll be happy if he can improve our special teams.

BaLLiN
05-18-2011, 02:19 PM
http://replay.web.archive.org/20070427011311/http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/darrellerevis.html

http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/CB/Prince-Amukamara.php

i know prince wasn't a returner and probably doesn't have the ballskills that revis has, but he is more refined and has more quality experience against better teams, although he doesn't have the highlight reel, he was forced to lock up with a receiver without any help. Ive been seeing 4.38 for prince's 40 time but scott has 4.43

Looking more into this comparison, Prince is definitely the more polished prospect. Prince played in more complicated coverages, was used in more ways such as blitzing, and was typically locked up with a receiver without any help.

When i watched Revis I see a lot more loose coverage (absolutely crappy quarterbacks) and him basically floating in coverage when he is not in a deep three/manned up which is very occasional.

Prince may not have the arm length or the hand size that Revis has, but when you are comparing prince to any other prospect you have to do it knowing that most of the time he was locked up in cover 0 press where he was unable to float or see the ball any time before it the receiver puts up their hands.

When I watch the difference between 2010 and 2009 i definitely see two different defenses where in 2009 Prince was allowed to play more off coverage and read the ball rather than just playing the receiver in 2010. I tribute this to the dropoff in pressure which would cause the receivers to be able to run longer, passing time being extended quite a bit.

His versatility and experience in several defensive looks makes him more NFL ready and although he isn't an impact player in man press, not many corners playing that style are. You simply do not see it because the reaction time to get your body in position and get two hands on it in that time period is nearly impossible on a well thrown ball. I stand by my position when I say that Prince will be the best corner from this draft.

Edit: and several times this year when Prince was in this man press he got a nice deflection that, with maybe a splitsecond more time to react, would've been a pick.

bigbluedefense
05-19-2011, 11:03 AM
I like Prince's aggressiveness, and his ability to tackle and his versatility. What scares me about him is his short arms and he grabs a lot. Prince would grab an awful lot in college. He can't do that in the pros, he'll get flagged every time.

He also bites at double moves a lot. That will improve over time, I think he'll be a solid CB, he won't be a Revis, I felt that Peterson or Smith had that potential, but Prince is a very solid CB who can at the very worst be a very good #2 CB, and with our depth at CB that's more than enough.

He'll eventually become our 2, slide TT to nickel, and we probably don't resign Ross.

It was a good pick, I used to be upset that we chose him over Smith, but after reading more about Smith's character, I think choosing Prince was the right move.

Austin...I just can't sell myself on him. Everytime I watch him he gets abused. He wanted to get paid, so he gave a damn in the East West Shrine Game and dominated, and we fell for it. I read all the fluff articles this offseason, as Im sure many of you have as well, but I try not to read into those too much. We see those every offseason. Sure, his character isn't an issue, he's no Jimmy Smith, but his laziness and lack of effort on the football field is. It's one thing if he was JPP and had elite athleticism with minimal experience and a high motor, but this guy is just lazy.

That's why I loved JPP. His motor. The guy was raw, but he was athletic and had a great work ethic. Can we say the same for Austin? I think it was a good sign that the dude stayed in excellent shape during his suspension which shows some commitment, and he dominated the EW Shrine Game, but every time I watch his games, I come away very unimpressed.

Hopefully the "light" turned on for him, but it's definitely a risk.

Beyond the first 2 rounds, I usually stay skeptical for the rest of the draft. This was a weak draft class, I think it's unrealistic of us to expect a lot from anyone else.

I'm anticipating Jerrigan to be a great returner, but not much more than that for at least his first 2 years in the league, I expect the OT from Indiana to need a solid 2 years to develop if he does, so he's going in our farm system. The rest seem like good STers to me.

I think overall the class is good, and we have some great potential from some guys, I really liked our first 4 rounds outside of Austin, but at the same time, we have to keep in mind that typically, a great draft lands you 3 to 4 quality players, and in a weak draft class like this one, I'll be satisfied with 2 good players.

I think we'll get production out of 3 players in this draft. I'm guessing Prince is solid but not shut down, Jerrigan develops into a decent slot and a reliable returner, and Brewer develops into a solid RT or swing OT for depth. That's my expectations, I hope more comes from it, but if that's what we get, I'll be satisfied.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-19-2011, 11:12 AM
If we can draft an offensive player next year in the first round.. I will sport wood and be satisfied.

bigbluedefense
05-19-2011, 12:08 PM
Next year could potentially be a very very good LB draft. I think we finally pull the trigger on a LB in the 1st next year.

The only offensive players we need are OL, RB, and possibly TE. I doubt we go TE, we always get mid round RBs, and we've shown a history of grabbing developmental OL in the mid rounds and putting them in our farm system instead of drafting NFL ready linemen in the 1st.

Truth be told, if Beatty develops and Brewer develops, we probably won't need OL next year. It depends on how those 2 develop. I think the staff believes in Koets at C.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-19-2011, 02:10 PM
NOoooo! NOOOOoOOo nOOOOooOoo! OFFENSE! Not a LB! NOOOOOO!

Rosebud
05-19-2011, 02:32 PM
NOoooo! NOOOOoOOo nOOOOooOoo! OFFENSE! Not a LB! NOOOOOO!

Depends on what happens. If Beatty and Koets entrench themselves as starters this season where do we add an offensive player? We're set at QB, WR and if those two step up alongside some progress from Petrus and Brewer our OL and running game should not be a problem. Add a great defense alongside that Offense and we're a superbowl team.

bigbluedefense
05-20-2011, 11:27 AM
While our oline was an issue last year, we managed with it. And most of the problem was we were witnessing a "changing of the guard" along the oline during a season rather than during the offseason. I believe in our young guys, and I feel that you don't really need a dominant oline when you have a deep WR core anyway.

Look at GB. Their oline is mediocre at best, and their run game is far worse than ours. But they counter that with spread sets and quick passes with that WR core and they won a SB.

Our oline will never be dominant, but it can be good enough. The Giants philosophy is getting blue chip guys in the middle rounds and letting them develop chemistry, and having a solid blue collar unit up front. I don't agree with it, but i understand where they are coming from. You have to treat the oline as a single unit, not 5 individuals, and sometimes cohesion and development over time can overcome any physical shortcomings.

To me, when I study the Giants, the most glaring need is clearly linebacker. Our LB core is so mediocre. Getting 1 or even 2 playmakers at the LB position would GREATLY improve our defense.

We're solid up front and in the back end, but if you don't have linebackers, you can't defend the middle of the field. And if you break down the Giants defense, they've struggled to defend the middle of the field for the past 2 years. And probably will again this year.

The middle is WIDE OPEN against our defense. All the time. Bc we lack the LBs to patrol that middle. It's going to continue to become an issue this season as well. It doesn't go away on its own, we need linebackers to fix this problem and we haven't went out and got any.

So it's going to take some very intelligent scheming by Fewell to counter this, but realistically, the deep post will be open all day every day vs us all season long, just like it was last year and the year before.

So LB is clearly my #1 need on our board, and I doubt that's changing from now till April.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Depends on what happens. If Beatty and Koets entrench themselves as starters this season where do we add an offensive player? We're set at QB, WR and if those two step up alongside some progress from Petrus and Brewer our OL and running game should not be a problem. Add a great defense alongside that Offense and we're a superbowl team.

RB..

If good value comes WR, or any other offensive spot. We drafted a CB and DT this year, and a damn DE and another DT last year. So if it can be done. It's not like we needed those positions.

Rosebud
05-21-2011, 12:15 PM
RB..

If good value comes WR, or any other offensive spot. We drafted a CB and DT this year, and a damn DE and another DT last year. So if it can be done. It's not like we needed those positions.

Yes we did. Ross is walking next year so we needed a CB, Osi was coming off of a **** season and kiwi was still a question mark so we needed JPP, our depth at DT is still pretty weak unless Joseph becomes the beast we all hope and Austin's head really is out of his ass, especially with Cofield likely to walk this year. We certainly had needs at those positions. Whereas at WR the only possible need is if Smith walks this year or mario does next year, in which case we've already snagged Jernigan to groom for that job. RB could be a need, but lets wait until after FA to see what happens, personally I was a big fan of the Scott pick in the third.

bigbluedefense
05-21-2011, 01:06 PM
We absolutely needed a DE, DT, and a CB. As stated, Ross is gonna be a FA, so is TT, and Web is getting closer to 30 as we speak.

With today's league, you need 3 very good CBs to have a good defense. So building depth at CB is a must.

As for DT, we're paper thin in depth. Canty thus far has been average, Bernard sucks, and Coffield is gone. We needed 2 DTs. Hell, we might need another. You need 4 DTs to have good depth. Right now we'll have 3 legit DTs on the roster coming into the season. We could use another if you ask me.

And DE, Tuck is always hurt, Kiwi is always hurt and will be a FA casualty in all likelihood, and Osi was coming off a poor season post ACL. And with our belief in having 3 great DEs to rotate, we absolutely needed JPP for our longterm success of our dline.

You don't draft for a year. You draft players for the future. We've established depth along our dline and secondary for the foreseeable future, which is key for having a consistently good defense. Now defensively, we can focus on establishing our LB core for the future.

This is a team that is built on a philosophy that revolves around having a dominant defense. That's been the identity of the Giants since their creation. That will not change. This team will always put an emphasis on defense over offense.

And rightfully so. Defense wins championships.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-21-2011, 02:44 PM
Yes we did. Ross is walking next year so we needed a CB, Osi was coming off of a **** season and kiwi was still a question mark so we needed JPP, our depth at DT is still pretty weak unless Joseph becomes the beast we all hope and Austin's head really is out of his ass, especially with Cofield likely to walk this year. We certainly had needs at those positions. Whereas at WR the only possible need is if Smith walks this year or mario does next year, in which case we've already snagged Jernigan to groom for that job. RB could be a need, but lets wait until after FA to see what happens, personally I was a big fan of the Scott pick in the third.

No we didn't. Good, That's next year! Right now we have Webster, TT, Ross and Johnson. It's not like CB was a need. Osi was coming off injury, but we still had Tuck, Kiwi and Tolly, who has played well. Again, DE was NOT a need.

We wanted someone who can be our McCluster, or Hixon 2.0. Jerrigan was the BPA and Reese said we wanted to get faster. And so we did. Even on the defensive side of the ball we did too.

Rosebud
05-21-2011, 03:03 PM
No we didn't. Good, That's next year! Right now we have Webster, TT, Ross and Johnson. It's not like CB was a need. Osi was coming off injury, but we still had Tuck, Kiwi and Tolly, who has played well. Again, DE was NOT a need.

We wanted someone who can be our McCluster, or Hixon 2.0. Jerrigan was the BPA and Reese said we wanted to get faster. And so we did. Even on the defensive side of the ball we did too.

Look, Ross is always hurt anyway, even if he weren't an FA. Maybe if he were locked up long term it wouldn't be a round one need, but with his injuries, Web's age and TT's struggles this season we absolutely needed another corner. As BBD said, you need at least 3 good corners to match up with the better offenses in the NFL, we had 2.5 good ones.

Tuck is another injury prone player who we need a strong back up for, Kiwi didn't really play up to his talent until this past offseason, now us moving him around was a big part of that, but he was still a question mark and Tolly is nothing more than average. You can't have a great D with an old DE coming off a serious injury that hampered his season, an injury prone DE and guy who has been moved around between DE and LB too many times to establish himself, especially when that young unproven guy and the old guy where fast approaching their contract's expiration.

Plus you don't draft for one year, very few rookies are able to step in and play consistently well, that's why you need to draft for the future so that you can work guys through a lot of their rookie issues before having to rely on them.

bigbluedefense
05-21-2011, 04:13 PM
No we didn't. Good, That's next year! Right now we have Webster, TT, Ross and Johnson. It's not like CB was a need. Osi was coming off injury, but we still had Tuck, Kiwi and Tolly, who has played well. Again, DE was NOT a need.

We wanted someone who can be our McCluster, or Hixon 2.0. Jerrigan was the BPA and Reese said we wanted to get faster. And so we did. Even on the defensive side of the ball we did too.

Listen guy. I'm gonna save you a lot of pain and suffering right now. When April of next year rolls by, you will accept your mid round developmental OG/C, your mid round RB, and mid round TE and you will deal with it mister! :p

Come on Boss, you know that's how it's going to play out. You know the drill by now, first 2 rounds will be defense, then you'll get your project offensive players in the mid rounds and some height/weight/speed guys in the late rounds and be happy with it.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-21-2011, 05:23 PM
Listen guy. I'm gonna save you a lot of pain and suffering right now. When April of next year rolls by, you will accept your mid round developmental OG/C, your mid round RB, and mid round TE and you will deal with it mister! :p

Come on Boss, you know that's how it's going to play out. You know the drill by now, first 2 rounds will be defense, then you'll get your project offensive players in the mid rounds and some height/weight/speed guys in the late rounds and be happy with it.

Yes'm sir... I know it's going to be that too!

Defense
Defense
Offense
Defense
Defense
Offense
Offense or Defense

NY+Giants=NYG
05-21-2011, 05:27 PM
Look, Ross is always hurt anyway, even if he weren't an FA. Maybe if he were locked up long term it wouldn't be a round one need, but with his injuries, Web's age and TT's struggles this season we absolutely needed another corner. As BBD said, you need at least 3 good corners to match up with the better offenses in the NFL, we had 2.5 good ones.

Tuck is another injury prone player who we need a strong back up for, Kiwi didn't really play up to his talent until this past offseason, now us moving him around was a big part of that, but he was still a question mark and Tolly is nothing more than average. You can't have a great D with an old DE coming off a serious injury that hampered his season, an injury prone DE and guy who has been moved around between DE and LB too many times to establish himself, especially when that young unproven guy and the old guy where fast approaching their contract's expiration.

Plus you don't draft for one year, very few rookies are able to step in and play consistently well, that's why you need to draft for the future so that you can work guys through a lot of their rookie issues before having to rely on them.


Tuck has been in the past with shoulder stuff, but is fine now. Yes, ross is always hurt, which is why he never was a starter. He has been passed over. He has been fine health wise, but I don't see him winning the position either as 1 or 2. He is still under contract ANd we have Bruce Johnson who showed promise. Point being CB was a luxury pick because of BPA, not a need.

You are drafting BPA and it has nothing to do with need or that year. Now, if that value fits a need within that specific grade or tier system, then so be it. Like Coughlin and Ross always say. But it's BPA.

We never usually give rookies a shot anyways. Coughlin tends to redshirt our rookies and then play them.

Rosebud
05-22-2011, 09:22 AM
Exactly, if we're redshirting rookies anyway we should be targetting soon to be needs like DE was when we drafted Kiwi or JPP or the way CB was this draft.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-22-2011, 11:23 AM
Exactly, if we're redshirting rookies anyway we should be targetting soon to be needs like DE was when we drafted Kiwi or JPP or the way CB was this draft.

But we won't.. Reese seems to always go BPA. If that fills a need then so be it. if not, then we just stack up a position we don't need.

Rosebud
05-22-2011, 12:58 PM
But we won't.. Reese seems to always go BPA. If that fills a need then so be it. if not, then we just stack up a position we don't need.

We have yet to stack up a position we don't need under Reese...

NY+Giants=NYG
05-22-2011, 02:39 PM
We have yet to stack up a position we don't need under Reese...

Of course we have. JPP, when we had Kiwi, Tuck, Osi, and Tolly. Osi was coming of an injury, but we didn't NEED a DE. Same this year with Prince. He was clearly BPA, we didn't NEED a CB. It was a luxury pick due to BPA. In fact, as I type I am re-watching all the pressers by Ross, Coughlin, and Reese. It basically solidifies my point on BPA.

We needed OL, some say LB, or even RB. But we went with CB and DT.

bigbluedefense
05-22-2011, 06:08 PM
Of course we have. JPP, when we had Kiwi, Tuck, Osi, and Tolly. Osi was coming of an injury, but we didn't NEED a DE. Same this year with Prince. He was clearly BPA, we didn't NEED a CB. It was a luxury pick due to BPA. In fact, as I type I am re-watching all the pressers by Ross, Coughlin, and Reese. It basically solidifies my point on BPA.

We needed OL, some say LB, or even RB. But we went with CB and DT.

Your desire for an offensive player is clouding your judgement. And don't believe everything you hear in a press conference, come on now. Of course they're going to say a player they picked was the "best available player".

What do you expect them to say? "Na, we had players on the board rated higher than this guy but we really needed this position so we settled on him"

Come on!

And you know we redshirt rookies. So we can't afford to draft a player in a position the year we need it, bc he won't play anyway. You draft a need position a year before it becomes a need. That way, we redshirt our rookies and let them develop the right way, and when the need pops up a year later we plug and play.

That's what the good organizations do. The Eagles have been doing it for years. They draft a year ahead. So when a guy goes down or is out the door, the replacement is already in the building.

CB is a need. I've been an advocate of a CB for awhile now. You always need at least 3 good CBs in your rotation nowadays. With Webster getting older, Ross AND TT going into contract years, it's very reasonable to think that we lose 1 guy after this season. So when we need a CB next year, guess who's already in the building waiting to be step right up? That's right, Prince.

It was absolutely a need. There's no way in blue hell we resign Ross, and who knows, if TT asks for too much maybe he doesn't come back either. So CB was absolutely a need 2 years from now. So when you factor in how we redshirt, we got our guy at the perfect time. Why do you think I've been talking up Jimmy Smith before the draft? I knew the need for a CB. We addressed the need at the right time. Plus when Prince is needed next year, we don't have to worry about rookie growing pains. Bc he dealt with them during his redshirt year. It's perfect.

Ditto for JPP. We didn't need a DE this year. But we need one once Kiwi is out the door, which could be this year or next depending on the CBA (something we didn't know this time last year). And you know we thrive on having 3 fresh DEs in the rotation. So what do we do? We get his replacement a year in advance, let him develop, and when Kiwi is gone, the replacement is in the building.

That's what we do. That's the right way to draft and build your organization. You shouldn't look at it so negatively, its a great thing! I used to be so envious of the Eagles for having the foresight to draft that way, and now under Reese we finally are doing it.

Even our offense. Look at how we built it up. We have our replacements in house in case some WRs leave.

Even our oline. Kareem McKenzie is in his final year of his contract. He's going to play this year. The Giants won't do him dirty. So instead of waiting till next year to get a RT, what do we do? We get his replacement this year, let him develop, then next year we plug and play. The replacement is in the building.

Beatty was drafted to play LT ahead of time. Diehl's replacement? Petrus. Drafted ahead of time. O'Hara's replacement? We've been grooming Koets for the past 2 years for that and extended him this past year.

Everything we need is in house. Bc Reese had the foresight to get his guys in advance. I might not agree with getting oline guys in the mid rounds and developing them in the farm for 2 years, I prefer early round guys, but you can't argue with results, the system works.

Look at our (now aged) oline. Diehl was a mid round guy, Seaburt was UDFA, OHara was a 7th or a UDFA, Snee was a 2nd rounder and McKenzie was a FA.

That oline was great for years, and our highest pick was a 2nd rounder. So the system works, we just have to give our young guys their chance. I believe in our young guys (cautious about Beatty though).

In Reese we trust. The guy knows what he's doing.

Giantsfan1080
05-23-2011, 08:02 AM
Excellent post BBD. My thoughts exactly.

Jughead10
05-23-2011, 09:49 AM
We are all forgetting FA too. It's not always the most preferable way, but that how you plug gaps in the development system, like McKenzie. And all of FA is still up in the air because whenever they do play again, no one knows under what terms. But I'm sure the front office will have the ability to react or adapt.

Giantsfan1080
05-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Our roster seems pretty full already so I'm not sure what we're going to do when FA rolls around. I guess it all depends on which player we re-sign.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Your desire for an offensive player is clouding your judgement. And don't believe everything you hear in a press conference, come on now. Of course they're going to say a player they picked was the "best available player".

What do you expect them to say? "Na, we had players on the board rated higher than this guy but we really needed this position so we settled on him"

Come on!

And you know we redshirt rookies. So we can't afford to draft a player in a position the year we need it, bc he won't play anyway. You draft a need position a year before it becomes a need. That way, we redshirt our rookies and let them develop the right way, and when the need pops up a year later we plug and play.

That's what the good organizations do. The Eagles have been doing it for years. They draft a year ahead. So when a guy goes down or is out the door, the replacement is already in the building.

CB is a need. I've been an advocate of a CB for awhile now. You always need at least 3 good CBs in your rotation nowadays. With Webster getting older, Ross AND TT going into contract years, it's very reasonable to think that we lose 1 guy after this season. So when we need a CB next year, guess who's already in the building waiting to be step right up? That's right, Prince.

It was absolutely a need. There's no way in blue hell we resign Ross, and who knows, if TT asks for too much maybe he doesn't come back either. So CB was absolutely a need 2 years from now. So when you factor in how we redshirt, we got our guy at the perfect time. Why do you think I've been talking up Jimmy Smith before the draft? I knew the need for a CB. We addressed the need at the right time. Plus when Prince is needed next year, we don't have to worry about rookie growing pains. Bc he dealt with them during his redshirt year. It's perfect.

Ditto for JPP. We didn't need a DE this year. But we need one once Kiwi is out the door, which could be this year or next depending on the CBA (something we didn't know this time last year). And you know we thrive on having 3 fresh DEs in the rotation. So what do we do? We get his replacement a year in advance, let him develop, and when Kiwi is gone, the replacement is in the building.

That's what we do. That's the right way to draft and build your organization. You shouldn't look at it so negatively, its a great thing! I used to be so envious of the Eagles for having the foresight to draft that way, and now under Reese we finally are doing it.

Even our offense. Look at how we built it up. We have our replacements in house in case some WRs leave.

Even our oline. Kareem McKenzie is in his final year of his contract. He's going to play this year. The Giants won't do him dirty. So instead of waiting till next year to get a RT, what do we do? We get his replacement this year, let him develop, then next year we plug and play. The replacement is in the building.

Beatty was drafted to play LT ahead of time. Diehl's replacement? Petrus. Drafted ahead of time. O'Hara's replacement? We've been grooming Koets for the past 2 years for that and extended him this past year.

Everything we need is in house. Bc Reese had the foresight to get his guys in advance. I might not agree with getting oline guys in the mid rounds and developing them in the farm for 2 years, I prefer early round guys, but you can't argue with results, the system works.

Look at our (now aged) oline. Diehl was a mid round guy, Seaburt was UDFA, OHara was a 7th or a UDFA, Snee was a 2nd rounder and McKenzie was a FA.

That oline was great for years, and our highest pick was a 2nd rounder. So the system works, we just have to give our young guys their chance. I believe in our young guys (cautious about Beatty though).

In Reese we trust. The guy knows what he's doing.

No, not at all. I want an offensive player, but we drafted BPA. Just re-watch vidoes. You can tell Ross was giddy that they got BPA and those players fell. He looked like a 14 year old girl who just got asked out by the most popular kid in school.

And I expect them to say something like we got a top rated player we had on our radar, or just deflect the question. They don't need to volunteer the information!

Be realistic!

Yeah and this year was heavy on the DE. If we didn't draft JPP we could have drafted a DE this year IF we drafted for need. However, JPP was ranked high on our board and we drafted him. I don't understand the complexity of that.

And there is something in general, in "normal" years not with lockout stuff overhead called free agency. Hell, we are even allowed to sign and allow undrafted free agents to make the team. So of course we are going to draft BPA and not worry about drafting for need.