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ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 03:51 PM
I can't buy that to be honest with you. We've gotten by with scraping the bottom of the barrel at offensive line before. We've had good success plugging guys in at guard for stretches too.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 03:54 PM
mankins will prolly get franchise tagged and traded for assets i doubt we just let him walk

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 03:55 PM
That too, pending the CBA.

RaiderNation
01-29-2011, 03:56 PM
I can't buy that to be honest with you. We've gotten by with scraping the bottom of the barrel at offensive line before. We've had good success plugging guys in at guard for stretches too.

I see the trend of you guys drafting Florida players still going this year, and Pouncey will be the 1st(I can also see Ahmad Black being yours in the 3rd as well). You guys have had success plugging in guys, but you also have a history of drafting olinemen early in the draft. Plus isnt Koppen gone as well?

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 04:00 PM
I see the trend of you guys drafting Florida players still going this year, and Pouncey will be the 1st(I can also see Ahmad Black being yours in the 3rd as well). You guys have had success plugging in guys, but you also have a history of drafting olinemen early in the draft. Plus isnt Koppen gone as well?

I still can't see it with all of the stuff we have to do to finish out this defense. Maybe in the second, but not the first.


No, Koppen will be here next year. We should actively be looking for an upgrade though. Keyword there is upgrade though, not a replacement. Someone who can anchor against 3-4 NT's.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 04:18 PM
hmmm i think burney should be a sleeper for us. could be a special teams ace and solid nickelback possibly

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 04:20 PM
Dear holy Belichick, please draft Brooks Reed.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 04:23 PM
Dear holy Belichick, please draft Brooks Reed.

or kerrigan :) he looks beastly

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 04:25 PM
I would be happy with either of them.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 04:26 PM
I would be happy with either of them.

haha yeah i dont think kerrigan is going to last til our pick now

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 04:30 PM
Me neither. I've moved on. It's all about Brooks Reed in the early second or the end of the first now.

sportslover
01-29-2011, 04:32 PM
I think Reed is a 2nd round guy, don't see us needing to take him in the 1st.

But yeah he would be solid, with us going with a stud 5 tech or OT if there isn't an OLB on the board that we like.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 04:37 PM
I think we just might. He had a real great year and has been productive throughout. Gotta check out the medical, but I'm extremely high on him.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 05:19 PM
i really like darelle scott as a mid rounder to complement BJGE and Woodhead

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 05:22 PM
I'm high on Scott as well, but he can't block. That hurts his value a bit.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 05:30 PM
I'm high on Scott as well, but he can't block. That hurts his value a bit.

def worth a flier tho in the 4th or 5th.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 05:35 PM
Fast don't lie.

proshoota25
01-30-2011, 12:25 AM
updated mock in my sig. brooks reed is flyinnnn up, and i think we could take him there where most would consider a "reach." only thing missing is DE :(

descendency
01-30-2011, 06:23 AM
Brooks Reed is a mid to late day 2 guy.

Don't over-estimate the senior bowl's impact. He won't blow the combine up and won't likely blow his pro day up.

Gabe Carimi doesn't belong in round 1 either, but he seems to me to be a DBS blocker more so than a ZBS blocker. He is probably a mid to late 2nd round pick in the Patriots system because he just isn't athletic.

Hankerson at 33rd would be great, especially getting Pouncey at 60th.

Razor
01-30-2011, 08:19 AM
Brooks Reed is a mid to late day 2 guy.

Don't over-estimate the senior bowl's impact. He won't blow the combine up and won't likely blow his pro day up.

Gabe Carimi doesn't belong in round 1 either, but he seems to me to be a DBS blocker more so than a ZBS blocker. He is probably a mid to late 2nd round pick in the Patriots system because he just isn't athletic.

Hankerson at 33rd would be great, especially getting Pouncey at 60th.

Matt Millen likes Brooks Reed, so now I don't want him...

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 10:16 AM
Brooks Reed is a mid to late day 2 guy.

Don't over-estimate the senior bowl's impact. He won't blow the combine up and won't likely blow his pro day up.


I'm sorry, but that's absolutely absurd. Late second round I can buy if you're that concerned about the medical but he's been a terror when he's healthy and blew up guys going in the first round both in practice and in the game.

He's going have a very, very good combine combine, I can say that much. Was listed on ESPN's Freak List earlier in the year. Should run 4.6 in the 250 range and put up some ridiculous strength numbers. He power cleans 405 and squats 550. Benches 425 too. Those are last years numbers too. Should be even stronger now. Scouts have been high on this guy for a very long time and his days of going under the radar on message boards are over. If there were youtube clips available of him we would all be on his nuts.

It's also hard to "overestimate the impact of the Senior Bowl." You've seen guys like him come in and make and impact time and time again and then go in the first round. Brandon Graham, Dan Williams, Larry English, Robert Ayers, Clay Matthews, Sam Baker, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, ect ect ect. All not assured of going in the first round or even the early second and came in helped themselves tons. He was already going in the early second depending on who you talk to. He helped himself A LOT by standing up this week and looked great doing it.

Quotes;

Sports Illustrated
Brooks Reed/DL-OLB/Arizona: Reed has been nearly unstoppable the past two days. He's showed great skill rushing the passer as well as the athleticism necessary to chase the action in backside pursuit. Reed is projected by many to line-up at outside linebacker in the NFL and was effective Tuesday the few times he was asked to stand up over tackle.

....a star of Day 2 and Projects as one of the top pass rushing linebackers in the draft

Brooks Reed/DE-OLB/Arizona: Reed was another multi-purpose defender who impressed scouts with his skill and intensity. He was ferocious in pass rush drills, often beating much larger linemen up the field. Later in the week, when Reed played linebacker and dropped into coverage, his ball skills were as proficient as many of the every day linebackers he played next to. The depth of talent on the defensive line will knock Reed out of the draft's initial 35 selections, but don't be surprised if a 3-4 defense acquires him in the middle part of round two.

Walter Football
Along with Sam Acho and Phil Taylor, Brooks Reed helped the South destroy the North's offensive line. Reed embarrassed Anthony Castonzo in the second quarter. Like Acho, Brooks had a sack and two TFLs.

I thought Brooks Reed looked very good in the drills during the South Team practice. You have to love his non-stop motor.


Arizona Daily Star

Reed has received glowing reviews at both positions. Monday, he dominated Mississippi State offensive tackle Derek Sherrod in "pit drills" - one-on-one, full-pads showdowns designed to showcase players for scouts. Tuesday provided fewer highlights, but just as many compliments on his "motor" and moves.

BradysKnee
01-30-2011, 10:26 AM
To be honest guys, I'd put our realistic big board for round 1 to 2 like this:

Pat Peterson
Prince Amukamara
Robert Quinn
Marcel Dareus
Nick Fairley
Von Miller

Prospects for #17
/Cameron Jordan/
Akeem Ayers
Ryan Kerrigan
JJ Watt
Aldon Smith
Julio Jones

I love Cameron Jordan, the guy has beast written all over him. I don't think he's there at 17, but i'd love us to trade up for him. Moreso than Kerrigan, Ayers, etc.

As for #28

Nate Solder
Anthony Castanzo
JJ Watt
Justin Houston
Hankerson/Young [Not sure who I like more yet]
Brandon Harris

I really like Titus Young. Not high on Bailey and a few others at this point at all in round 1. I'd love to see us grab Acho at the end of round 2 though.

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 10:29 AM
I really don't like Titus Young all that much. He doesn't bring enough size to the table and the way you shut him down is similar to the way you shut the rest of our receivers down. He's also not a very natural hands catcher and is inconsistent in the effort he gives as a route runner. The DeSean Jackson comparison is pretty legit, although he might not be quite as fast. You hit him in the mouth a few times and he's not the same player. I would take Hankerson over him every single time for us anyway.

sportslover
01-30-2011, 10:46 AM
Take Akeem Ayers off that list for #17 and all those guys are realistic.

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 10:48 AM
Ayers would be great if he could rush the passer. He's likely limited to being an ILB in a 3-4 though.

proshoota25
01-30-2011, 10:50 AM
I'm sorry, but that's absolutely absurd. Late second round I can buy if you're that concerned about the medical but he's been a terror when he's healthy and blew up guys going in the first round both in practice and in the game.

He's going have a very, very good combine combine, I can say that much. Was listed on ESPN's Freak List earlier in the year. Should run 4.6 in the 250 range and put up some ridiculous strength numbers. He power cleans 405 and squats 550. Benches 425 too. Those are last years numbers too. Should be even stronger now. Scouts have been high on this guy for a very long time and his days of going under the radar on message boards are over. If there were youtube clips available of him we would all be on his nuts.

It's also hard to "overestimate the impact of the Senior Bowl." You've seen guys like him come in and make and impact time and time again and then go in the first round. Brandon Graham, Dan Williams, Larry English, Robert Ayers, Clay Matthews, Sam Baker, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, ect ect ect. All not assured of going in the first round or even the early second and came in helped themselves tons. He was already going in the early second depending on who you talk to. He helped himself A LOT by standing up this week and looked great doing it.

Quotes;

Sports Illustrated


Walter Football

I agree with all of this and more. we have seen the patriots reach on guys they have liked in the past, have we not? reed will fall into that category.

AND the reason I mocked us Carimi is because he will be a stud RT in the NFL, and a beautiful compliment to Vollmer on the left side. Also, I was talking with ROP who was speaking to a guy who was at the senior bowl, and sweared that the patriots had talked to carimi on a few occasions. i usually take this with a grain of salt, but i can see it. now that the patriots are moving to a more two tight end set, and want to get back to physically running the ball, we are going to need physical, tough, and mauler types on the line. carimi fits the bill

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 10:52 AM
I would absolutely love it if we took Carami. I have reservations about us actually doing it as he seems to be the sort of guy we pass on all the time, but it would be a good move. Certainly wouldn't have to worry about the tackle position anymore haha.

BradysKnee
01-30-2011, 11:00 AM
Carimi would be a good pick. I think interior linemen are mid-heavy in this draft and we will likely address it in rd3-4.

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 11:01 AM
I would much prefer to sure up the tackle position permanently than take a guard like Pouncey early.

proshoota25
01-30-2011, 11:02 AM
I would much prefer to sure up the tackle position permanently than take a guard like Pouncey early.

totally agree here

BradysKnee
01-30-2011, 11:05 AM
totally agree here

Yep me too.
What do you guys think of taking Acho at 33?
He plays his balls off, and is a great pass rusher.

proshoota25
01-30-2011, 11:08 AM
Yep me too.
What do you guys think of taking Acho at 33?
He plays his balls off, and is a great pass rusher.

i like him.... id pick him personally. he measured kinda small...... im just wondering if hes too small height wise for BB, we know he is crazy about that kind of stuff

sportslover
01-30-2011, 11:38 AM
I liked what I saw from Acho too, but I don't think he is worth #33, if he is there at #60 or later, I can see BB taking a shot.

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 11:40 AM
Yep me too.
What do you guys think of taking Acho at 33?
He plays his balls off, and is a great pass rusher.

I think Brooks Reed is a whole ton more fluid and athletic than Acho is, although Acho isn't a slouch in the athleticism category either. If they're both there, give me Reed every single time. He's also probably too short for what we look for. Good kid and a decent prospect, but I don't think he's as clean of a transition to OLB as some people do. He had a bit of an up and down week and was a non factor in the padded practices. Good game, but he didn't help or hurt himself overall this week.

proshoota25
01-30-2011, 12:37 PM
At this point, to be honest, id happy with any type of prospect who has the potential to be a very good pass rusher. its critical we find it either through free agency or the draft ( hali <3 not happenin tho), most likely the draft

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 12:54 PM
Tamba Hali is an animal. Word is he wants to stay in KC though :(

Babylon
01-30-2011, 01:06 PM
One guy the Pats have been rumored to like (mostly in here) is Cam Jordan, he's got prototype size for the 3-4 end but dont see a lot of ability to get to the QB. I'm thinking more on the lines of Watt or Heyward.

proshoota25
01-30-2011, 01:07 PM
Tamba Hali is an animal. Word is he wants to stay in KC though :(

yeah he has told the media he wants to stay. i just really hope BB all this week was like dudeee we need you man. u wanna win a superbowl? u come here.... ur the missing link. thats a pretty good sales pitch lol

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 01:10 PM
One guy the Pats have been rumored to like (mostly in here) is Cam Jordan, he's got prototype size for the 3-4 end but dont see a lot of ability to get to the QB. I'm thinking more on the lines of Watt or Heyward.

I think the opposite really. Cam Jordan is going to be more of a factor as a pass rusher than Heyward, that's for sure. Probably about in the same category as Watt. Probably the most athletic five technique in the draft. Showed it in the practices this week. Wasn't a major factor in the game, but he was a nightmare to stay with because of his quickness in the Pitt.

proshoota25
01-30-2011, 01:12 PM
One guy the Pats have been rumored to like (mostly in here) is Cam Jordan, he's got prototype size for the 3-4 end but dont see a lot of ability to get to the QB. I'm thinking more on the lines of Watt or Heyward.

i think heyward is the best fit, followed by jordan then watt. either way, we would end up with a great player. if BB thinks we need a bigger pass rush from the line, then jordan or watt will be the pick. if he wants to stick with what we have done the past few years, its heyward..... but then its a complete necessity to get a great pass OLB.... either way we'd need one but itd be more necessary if we picked heyward

Nalej
01-30-2011, 03:32 PM
If L.Mankin leaves, does anybody think M.Light can slide in to OG?
Swap Vollmer to the left side and draft Camiri/Constanzo/etc as a RT

Could anyone see BB taking C.Jordan AND C.Heyward?
Heyward fits the base D perfectly while CJ could be our UT (M.Wright's spot) in our subpackage
and can rotate in our base D as nec too.
I think it's unlikely but draft day is always a shocker so I'm trying to think outside the box

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 03:33 PM
If L.Mankin leaves, does anybody think M.Light can slide in to OG?
Swap Vollmer to the left side and draft Camiri/Constanzo/etc as a RT

It's possible...but I'm wondering if we would actually do it. Wouldn't mind if we did though. Light is better playing in a phone booth at this point.

AntoinCD
01-30-2011, 04:09 PM
One guy to familiarise ourselves with now is Ahmad Black. Not a massive need or anything but I have a sneaky suspicion we could take him early. And I don't mean 3rd round early. Would be perfect for the role Pat Chung played this year and allow Chung to play more of an actual safety position. I dont think Belichick will forget Blair White torching Chung this year and Black can definitely play nickel CB as a Safety

sportslover
01-30-2011, 05:57 PM
Just posted my 2nd mock for Post Senior Bowl in the Mock draft area.

Have us getting the following.

#17 -- Robert Quinn, LB, North Carolina
#28 -- Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
#33 -- Muhammed Wilkerson, DE, Temple
#60 -- Brooks Reed, DE, Arizona
#74 -- Ahmad Black, S, Florida
#90 -- Jalil Brown, CB, Colorado
4th -- Niles Paul, WR, Nebraska
5th -- Bilal Powell, RB, Louisville
6th -- Greg McElroy, QB, Alabama


May seem a little wishful with us getting Quinn, but I just couldn't find a spot for the kid. Carimi will solidify the right side of our line and out OT for the next 10 years. Wilkerson solidifies our front seven and especially up front and very well in fact, he is stout against the run and has a quick burst as a rusher. Reed adds another pass rusher who is versitle and can work on ST. Black and Brown in the 3rd add to our secondary with small, undersized guys who just flat out get it done. The next 3 picks are more depth picks. Paul is a thick, physical WR who can play for us in the slot and on the outside, may not be a deep threat but a solid bigger WR. Assuming we bring back the Law Firm to go along with Woodhead, Powell will be a great back who can carry the load na dalso be a situational guy. McElroy brings a little challenge in camp with a chance to take over for Hoyer, as I am real high on McElroy especially late.

Anyways just a new mock that I think would get our needs and is pretty realistic.

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 06:50 PM
That's a heck of a mock, but some of those guys will be gone earlier unfortunately.

sportslover
01-30-2011, 06:56 PM
The only one that I think will is Quinn, but as I was going to down the board, I just kept going past teams and he wasn't the pick, just really no fit. I think if I did another mock in a few minutes I may find him a fit but for now that's what I have.

Reed and Carimi may be a little low but at the moment, I don't doubt where they are at.

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 07:05 PM
I think Reed and Quinn are very low there and Jalil Brown is a guy who made some serious cheese this week too. He was the best overall defensive back in Mobile.

Nalej
01-30-2011, 08:44 PM
If we go OT early, I'd hope we address interior line somewhere in the 3/4 range

descendency
01-30-2011, 10:21 PM
Gabe Carimi is a guard on the Patriots OL. He's not athletic enough for tackle.

AntoinCD
01-31-2011, 09:35 AM
Gabe Carimi is a guard on the Patriots OL. He's not athletic enough for tackle.

Im not so sure. I think he could be a very good RT in our scheme. I think his athleticism is underrated and he has very good length and functional strength. Him and Vollmer would be a nice set of bookends IMO

Razor
01-31-2011, 10:24 AM
Im not so sure. I think he could be a very good RT in our scheme. I think his athleticism is underrated and he has very good length and functional strength. Him and Vollmer would be a nice set of bookends IMO

I agree with this. He can be abused by speed rushers, especially in the NFL. But I still think he could be a well above average RT in the NFL. Plus, he's a great ******* run blocker. He just takes his opponent out, much like our current starting tackles do.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 10:27 AM
Carimi being abusable by speed rushers is largely a myth. I wouldn't be comfortable with telling him to protect Brady's blindside against Dwight Freeney because that will never be his strength...but he went up against guys who were supposedly much better athlete than him all week in the Senior Bowl and not once lost a battle because of his feet.

AntoinCD
01-31-2011, 10:28 AM
I love him. i think DE, OLB and interior offensive line are bigger concerns right now but I would not be pissed if we took him in the first, especially at 28

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 10:34 AM
I think he's moved himself out of that area though. Carimi has a chance to go top 20 depending on what teams picking a tackle are looking for. He's probably off our board just because he's not the kind of guy who can get out to the second level on the screen pass. I don't necessarily agree with that logic, but it probably keeps him off our board.

FlyingElvis
01-31-2011, 10:37 AM
I think it's safe to say Kerrigan is a top 15 pick now. He was a beast in pass rush and he looked excellent setting the edge against the rush. I doubt he makes it to our 17. I'm thinking Jordan is unlikely to be there either. Mayock was consistently saying 20-30 on him but that seems highly unlikely to me, given the increase in the number of teams running a 34.

I still think it's possible we see Jordan at 17 so I'm thinking Jordan / Hankerson as our round 1 picks.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 10:48 AM
Jordan is still in play somehow despite being the best player at the Senior Bowl. Really flew under the radar for a long time and might not be able to make that massive jump up to the Top 10 that some people(including me) were projecting. He's an interesting selection for us really. He's not a classic five technique like Cameron Heyward is. He's more athletic guy who would do REALLY well in a one gap 3-4, but still could be a major factor in our system both as gap to gap player as well as a pass rusher. I'm still not sold on him as the best system fit in the world but he's clearly the most talented athletically out of all of the five technique prospects this year and that certainly counts for something. I would be really excited about that pick assuming we were able to land an OLB. One thing that was sort of lost about Richard Seymour in his prime is how good of a pass rusher he was. 8 sacks a year was expected and a ton of pressures a long the way. Jordan could potentially bring that type of pass rush production to the table for us.

I do agree about Kerrigan though, we can pretty much kiss him goodbye. It would take him falling at this point to be there at pick #17. Could well happen, but I don't think we can sit there and say it's a slam dunk at this point. I'm completely comfortable taking him to play linebacker at 255 though and that was a nice surprise this week.

BradysKnee
01-31-2011, 12:04 PM
I think there is a very good possibility we trade up.
I don't know that we have the roster space for 10+ rookies in camp.
I could see us trading up with Dallas and handing them our later 2nd.

descendency
01-31-2011, 05:41 PM
I want to see the combine (the "least important event of the year") before I make any 'final' decisions, because I am seriously curious where some of these 10 yard splits, 20 yard SS, and long jumps will be (all highly indicative of important on field measurables).

Nalej
01-31-2011, 05:46 PM
Is it April yet? Damn. Friggin' Super Bowl hasn't even passed... Boooo

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 05:48 PM
We've still got months of this stuff haha. Starting to really be draft season now though.

Nalej
01-31-2011, 05:57 PM
It's going to be a long couple of months... sooo... discusion

Would C.Jordan be a good fit on our base defense?
He seems to be the ideal specimen/skill for our sub/nickel package UT ala M.Wright
He's a penetrating havoc creating monster... but would he be able to play our 2-gap style in our odd front?
I'd like him regardless bc we play so much of our sub-packages that they're pretty much starters anyways.
Just wondering if you think if you guys think he can not only play in our odd front but actually earn a starting job.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 06:02 PM
I don't think he would have ANY problem earning time and starting here. It is an interesting fit though. He's a rare type of player that could realistically project anywhere along a defensive line sans NT. I'm going to have go back and watch some more tape on him..but he has no issue being a gap to gap player despite his athleticism. We play nickel so much and he would probably play DE there too and be good in that role as well.

Nalej
01-31-2011, 06:41 PM
I don't think he would have ANY problem earning time and starting here. It is an interesting fit though. He's a rare type of player that could realistically project anywhere along a defensive line sans NT. I'm going to have go back and watch some more tape on him..but he has no issue being a gap to gap player despite his athleticism. We play nickel so much and he would probably play DE there too and be good in that role as well.

yea, like I said, even if BB didn't like him in our base D... he'd be a monster in our sub packages and we play that half the time anyways so it doesn't really matter.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 06:44 PM
Still, we should be able to base package more. That's a sign of weakness if anything. For that reason, I'm still debating if Cameron Heyward is a better fit.

descendency
01-31-2011, 06:48 PM
Long arms, big hands, strong. Could add to his base.

He can play any/either scheme with some coaching.

Nalej
01-31-2011, 08:11 PM
I absolutely love C.Heyward for us. This is exactly who BB wants in terms of build.
With us, I think he has the potential to be Seymour 2.0. I'd love to have him on the team

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 09:26 PM
I absolutely love C.Heyward for us. This is exactly who BB wants in terms of build.
With us, I think he has the potential to be Seymour 2.0. I'd love to have him on the team

I agree. That easy fit would be hard to go away from. But we've been looking to get more athletic lately and Jordan would be a very bold move towards that direction.

descendency
02-01-2011, 01:57 AM
I absolutely love C.Heyward for us. This is exactly who BB wants in terms of build.
With us, I think he has the potential to be Seymour 2.0. I'd love to have him on the team

Except Seymour could rush the passer.

AntoinCD
02-01-2011, 02:59 AM
Mike Reiss reported the other day that we played in some kind of sub package 57% of the time. This will not go down well in the offseason review for Belichick. With the fact that he stresses the importance of being a three down player, sometimes a four down player(as with McCourty last year) I don't think he will draft a player highly if he doesn't believe he can be a fixture in our base defense. A lot of the problems caused were through injuries, especially along the defensive line, however I believe he will target someone who can make an impact on any play regardless of down or distance.

This is why I believe he will pass on some DE/OLB tweeners such as Von Miller/Robert Quinn if they were available. The 5 techniques are interesting though. Both Jordan and Watt don't seem the type to play in the 2 gap defense but I think both are more than capable. Heyward is a perfect fit and next IMO would be Ballard. It would be interesting to see if BB overdrafts a guy like Ballard at the end of the first due to his fit.

At OLB I see the early options being Kerrigan and Houston. Aldon Smith needs to prove he can hold the point of attack before BB would touch him in the middle of the first.

nepg
02-01-2011, 07:34 AM
Von Miller would be a 3-down player for the Pats. He looks pretty comfortable in pass coverage already and can be moved all around a defense to create mismatches a la Clay Matthews. Houston and Kerrigan would be 2-down players for at least a few seasons.

descendency
02-01-2011, 07:46 AM
Miller will be dominated by athletic tackles in the running game.

Besides, there is no way the Patriots get Miller now. His stock exploded. Robert Quinn is the best the Patriots can hope for. They have to hope Kerrigan, Watt, Miller, etc go up and force guys like Quinn down.

Razor
02-01-2011, 07:57 AM
Miller will be dominated by athletic tackles in the running game.

Besides, there is no way the Patriots get Miller now. His stock exploded. Robert Quinn is the best the Patriots can hope for. They have to hope Kerrigan, Watt, Miller, etc go up and force guys like Quinn down.

That's exactly why I don't like him in NE. I think he could be a beast in other 3-4 systems where the primary responsibility is to rush the passer. But he's not nearly physical enough to set the edge in the running game, which is very important to BB (since he's always talking about it I guess). i don't think we have a shot at Quinn either. He's going to blow up the Scouting Combine and solidify himself as a top 5-8 player I think. I could still see us getting Kerrigan though. If you think about it, who's going to go higher than Kerrigan?

Da'Quan Bowers
Robert Quinn
Von Miller
Cam Jordan
Aldon Smith

So for Kerrigan to be off the board one in every three (actually more) would have to be a DE, and that's not even counting DTs (Dareus & Fairley) and QBs (Newton & Gabbert (Mallett & Locker too)). That a major run on DL and imo not very likely. We will have shot at drafting an impact player, BB just needs to pull the trigger this time. I'm actually starting to expect him to move up if somebody like Quinn falls out of the top 10. Althoug BB has a habit of letting me down on draft day....

AntoinCD
02-01-2011, 08:08 AM
Von Miller would be a 3-down player for the Pats. He looks pretty comfortable in pass coverage already and can be moved all around a defense to create mismatches a la Clay Matthews. Houston and Kerrigan would be 2-down players for at least a few seasons.

??? Im not sure how I can agree with any of this. Miller can rush the passer and drop into coverage. But can he take an OT on to set the edge in the running game? I really don't think he can.

As for Houston and Kerrigan I have full confidence that both are able to set the edge and have both proven to be able to rush the passer. Houston has also shown the ability to dorp into coverage.

ElectricEye
02-01-2011, 01:43 PM
Except Seymour could rush the passer.

Heyward doesn't have any issues rushing the passer. Not sure how you could really say that even relative to Seymour. ****, he nearly eclipsed Sey's college career total last year. He's not the athlete Jordan is, but for a guy his size with his type of game he doesn't have any issues being a factor in the passing game.

descendency
02-01-2011, 02:36 PM
Heyward doesn't have any issues rushing the passer. Not sure how you could really say that even relative to Seymour. ****, he nearly eclipsed Sey's college career total last year. He's not the athlete Jordan is, but for a guy his size with his type of game he doesn't have any issues being a factor in the passing game.

Richard Seymour was the nickel UT. If Heyward does that in NE, I'll eat my words. I wouldn't mind Heyward, but I wouldn't take him at 17. I'd love to have him and Robert Quinn (or Von Miller maybe . . . which I think is worth the risk at times)

I think Cameron Jordan is closer (as an overall player) to Seymour than Heyward is, but in terms of run stopping and absorbing blockers (two very important things) I think Heyward is closer.

sportslover
02-01-2011, 03:31 PM
If there is a 3-4 DE we take at #17, I would only want Cameron Jordan, but beyond that at 28 and beyond, guys like JJ Watt, Cameron Heyward, Muhammed Wilkerson all make sense for our scheme and the value of the pick there.

I really hope we go OLB to start out, and then DE, cause I feel the top of the draft is more DE/OLB prospect heavy then later on.

Combos that would be good for me for DE and OLB in this draft.
Jordan/Houston
Jordan/Reed
Quinn/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt
Smith/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt
Kerrigan/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt
Miller/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt

I'd say the 2 most possible out of that group are the Smith and Kerrigan ones. Or maybe the Jordan/Houston or Reed combos.

Another thought, although we love mocking the Pats -- I don't think we will be keepign both 28 and 33 and drafting there, I think at least 1 of our top 3 picks gets traded to move up or down or into next year.

ElectricEye
02-01-2011, 04:34 PM
I'm all about Jordan/Reed right now. I really like Heyward and think he's a very complete DE, but if we get a shot at Jordan we have to take him. Watt is still very much in play for me too, but he's been overtaken by a few guys since the Senior Bowl. He'll have a chance to make that up at the combine.

Pretty confident we can get some real player in here if we sit with those picks though.

Nalej
02-01-2011, 10:47 PM
I really can't see R.Quinn dropping to us but man, it'd be a dream come true.
I update my mock again... with that very same scenerio happening...

ElectricEye
02-01-2011, 11:10 PM
It's in play right now but very much an outside thing. We may well pass on him if he's there too due to character concerns.

nepg
02-01-2011, 11:17 PM
That's pretty much been my thinking. Even if Quinn fell to the Pats, would they not also pass? The only time I ever remember them biting on someone that everyone else passed on was Wilfork.

ElectricEye
02-01-2011, 11:20 PM
Yeah, something tells me the front office would not be cool with a guy who directly let down his team with his actions off the field. It's the old Cameron Newton debate on a smaller scale.

Nalej
02-01-2011, 11:42 PM
...and Meriweather. Remember, he was part of the Mia/FIU incident.
We still grabbed him... I think BB has shown he'll grab someone regardless of character concern.
C.Dillon and R.Moss can be added to that list...
BB trusts the leadership in the locker room to fix any and all problems of that nature (character issues)

ElectricEye
02-01-2011, 11:49 PM
I would want us to do our homework on him for sure though and check out every little detail about him. I want us to know what brand of toothpaste the dude uses if we consider drafting him.

nepg
02-02-2011, 12:11 AM
...and Meriweather. Remember, he was part of the Mia/FIU incident.
We still grabbed him... I think BB has shown he'll grab someone regardless of character concern.
C.Dillon and R.Moss can be added to that list...
BB trusts the leadership in the locker room to fix any and all problems of that nature (character issues)
Meriweather didn't really slip in the draft. He went about where or a slightly earlier than he was projected.

Dillon and Moss were free agents who were disgruntled because they were on **** teams.

sportslover
02-02-2011, 09:34 AM
I thought I'd make a list of players that I think the Patriots may target either via the draft or UFA for all positions:

QB Andy Dalton, TCU
QB Greg McElroy, Alabama
QB TJ Yates, North Carolina
QB Ricki Stanzi, Iowa
QB Nathan Enderle, Idaho

RB Mark Ingram, Alabama
RB Mikel LeShoure, Illinois
RB Demarco Murray, Oklahoma
RB Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State
RB Daniel Thomas, Kansas State
RB Graig Cooper, Miami (FL)
RB Evan Royster, Penn State
RB Bilal Powell, Louisville
RB Roy Helu Jr, Nebraska
RB ANthony Allen, Georgia Tech
RB Delone Carter, Syracuse
RB John Clay, Wisconsin
RB Alex Green, Hawaii

WR AJ Green, Georgia
WR Julio Jones, Alabama
WR Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh
WR Torrey Smith, Maryland
WR Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL)
WR Titus Young, Boise State
WR Greg Little, North Carolina
WR Niles Paul, Nebraska
WR Cecil Shorts, Mount Union
WR Vincent Brown, San Deigo State
WR Austin Pettis, Boise State

OT Anthony Castonzo, Boston College
OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin
OT Ben Ijalana, Villanova
OT Lee ZIemba, Auburn
OT Marcus Gilbert, Florida
OT James Brewer, Indiana
OT Joseph Barksdale, LSU

OG Marcus Cannon, TCU
OG Rodney Hudson, Florida State
OG Mike Pouncey, Florida
OG Danny Watkins, Baylor
OG John Moffit, Wisconsin
OG Zach Hurd, Connecticut
C Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State

DE Adrian Clayborn, Iowa
DE Cameron Jordan, California
DE JJ Watt, Wisconsin
DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio State
DE Marcell Dareus, Alabama
DE Muhammed WIlkerson, Temple
DE Jarvis Jenkins, Clemson
DE Lawrence GUy, Arizona State

NT Phil Taylor, Baylor
NT Stephen Paea, Oregon State

OLB Robert Quinn, North Carolina
OLB Aldon Smith, Missouri
OLB Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue
OLB Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma
OLB Brooks Reed, Arizona
OLB Jabaal SHeard, Pittsburgh
OLB Cliff Matthews, South Carolina
OLB Sam Acho, Texas
OLB Von Miller, Texas A&M
OLB Akeem Ayers, UCLA
OLB Justin Houston, Georgia
OLB KJ Wright, Mississippi State
OLB Tom Keiser, Stanford

ILB Martez Wilson, Illinois
ILB Mark Herzlich, Boston College
ILB Kelvin Sheppard, LSU
ILB Scott Lutrus, Connecticut

CB Patrick Peterson, LSU
CB Prince Amukamara, Nebraska
CB Jimmy Smith, Colorado
CB Jalil Brown, Colorado
CB Kendrick Burney, North Carolina
CB Johnny Patrick, Louisville
CB Shareece Wright, USC
CB Justin Rogers, Richmond

S Ahmad Black, Florida
S Da'Norris Searcy, North Carolina
S Quinton Carter, Oklahoma
S Shiloh Keo, Idaho
S Rahim Moore, UCLA

Nalej
02-02-2011, 10:19 AM
Meriweather didn't really slip in the draft. He went about where or a slightly earlier than he was projected.

Dillon and Moss were free agents who were disgruntled because they were on **** teams.

I didn't say Meriweather slipped... I said he was part of that fight and had ? marks about his character going into the draft.
Point is that we took guys who were labled with character issues.
BB trusts his locker room to rectifiy any issues. So if you have talent to contribute, he'll sign you

descendency
02-02-2011, 10:27 AM
...and Meriweather. Remember, he was part of the Mia/FIU incident.

Obviously, you don't want fights, but going out to fight with your team-mates with how that brawl was going down, I as a coach could understand it.

That's not the same as disqualifying yourself because you felt you should be paid and are above the team.

Nalej
02-02-2011, 10:31 AM
My point still is... I don't think BB puts too much emphsis on character issues.
He does his homework and then trusts that his team and captains keep everyone in line.
If BB passes on R.Quinn, I doubt it'll be because of character issues, it'll be bc BB doesn't think he can contribute to the team the way he wants him to

FlyingElvis
02-02-2011, 10:48 AM
My point still is... I don't think BB puts too much emphsis on character issues.
He does his homework and then trusts that his team and captains keep everyone in line.
If BB passes on R.Quinn, I doubt it'll be because of character issues, it'll be bc BB doesn't think he can contribute to the team the way he wants him to

I disagree. If Quinn is too selfish to put the team first, that's enough for BB to pass. I get what you're saying and think the locker room / culture can shore up minor questionmarks / character issues, but "team first" is a must for anyone to make BB's board.

ElectricEye
02-02-2011, 11:30 AM
Most of the guys we've brought in because we have a strong locker room presence have been veterans who have seen the other side of things too.

Razor
02-03-2011, 05:05 AM
Uh oh....

Belichick: Trade offers for top picks (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4692741/belichick-trade-offers-for-top-picks)

"We've already had a couple offers on them," Belichick said. "We'll see what happens. We'll do whatever we can to improve the team, whether that's move up, move down, or stay where we are, and just try to add more players and more depth to our roster."


Ugh... I've got a bad feeling about this now. Of course he'll move down. After all, it's the right choice theoretically (if you look at it as an american option with uncertain payoff). But still, I'd love for us to trade up and get Quinn/Smith(/Green).

proshoota25
02-03-2011, 07:53 AM
Uh oh....

Belichick: Trade offers for top picks (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4692741/belichick-trade-offers-for-top-picks)



Ugh... I've got a bad feeling about this now. Of course he'll move down. After all, it's the right choice theoretically (if you look at it as an american option with uncertain payoff). But still, I'd love for us to trade up and get Quinn/Smith(/Green).

yeah it would be sweeet to trade up. i was surprised that teams are ALREADY calling, its still quite early in the process. I don't think it really means anything this early anyway.

Don Vito
02-03-2011, 08:31 AM
Jesus...it's only February and I already need to start thinking about how many times we are going to trade down.

FlyingElvis
02-03-2011, 10:06 AM
I'm not as concerned with the potential (inevitable) trade down as I thought I would be. It's really a value game. If we have a shot at a top talent like Jordan/Kerrigan that's one thing, but most mocks have those guys gone, and rightly so. I have no interest in sticking at 17 for a player that isn't a game breaker (OT / G) and less interest in taking a guy that we could still get at 21 or 22. I say 21 / 22 because the most likely scenario would be a trade down of half a dozen spots to add a 3rd-ish, while still leaving us with 2 1st round picks.

I would honestly prefer a trade up, though. Obviously, that's the least likely scenario, but moving up 5 spots or so to secure Kerrigan/Jordan would be so sweet.


Ok . . . each year you guys edumacate me on some finer detail of drafnikism . . . this year's topic:

What do you look for when deciding if a 5tech prospect will be better as a 1 vs. 2 gap 5tech?

AntoinCD
02-03-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm not as concerned with the potential (inevitable) trade down as I thought I would be. It's really a value game. If we have a shot at a top talent like Jordan/Kerrigan that's one thing, but most mocks have those guys gone, and rightly so. I have no interest in sticking at 17 for a player that isn't a game breaker (OT / G) and less interest in taking a guy that we could still get at 21 or 22. I say 21 / 22 because the most likely scenario would be a trade down of half a dozen spots to add a 3rd-ish, while still leaving us with 2 1st round picks.

I would honestly prefer a trade up, though. Obviously, that's the least likely scenario, but moving up 5 spots or so to secure Kerrigan/Jordan would be so sweet.


Ok . . . each year you guys edumacate me on some finer detail of drafnikism . . . this year's topic:

What do you look for when deciding if a 5tech prospect will be better as a 1 vs. 2 gap 5tech?

I agree there. I have no desire to take a JJ Watt, Cameron Heyward etc at 17 if we can trade down 5 or 6 spots and get the same player.

As for the better fit.

When looking for a fit in BB's 2 gap defense what is needed is a player with good length and long arms. Basically they need to be able to play on the OT and be able to anchor against him in the run game at both sides and get off the block to make the tackle, ie stack and shed. In the pass game he needs to be able to stand the OT up and get inside him. However the main aim would be to keep the pass rushing OLB matched up against a TE or a chipping RB. Ideal player for this would be Richard Seymour. 6'6 310lbs he has the height and long arms to stand the OT up and shed the block and is also strong enough to anchor against the run game.

When looking at a DE prospect for someone like Wade Phillips' one gap defense what you are looking for is a defensive lineman who is able to penetrate more with a low center of gravity. By playing only one gap what this player needs to do is get into a lane to disrupt running plays or penetrate into the backfield through this gap to rush the passer. Therefore the ability to beat blocks quickly is essential. Instead of holding off blockers and allowing LBers to make plays these defensive lineman are also expected to make there fair share of plays. Ideal player for this would be Luis Castillo. Being 6'3 and around 290lbs he is quick enough to beat double team blocks and small enough to use leverage to get underneath blocks and disrupt plays in the backfield. Generally one gap DEs in a 34 would also be sutiable as an UT in the 43 or strongside DEs in a 43.

ElectricEye
02-03-2011, 11:43 AM
What do you look for when deciding if a 5tech prospect will be better as a 1 vs. 2 gap 5tech?

This is becoming a complicated question to answer because the definition is being expanded for both types of players from what it used to be because of the sheer number of teams in the NFL switching/maintaining 3-4 defenses. The demand for defensive linemen to fit those schemes is at an all time high right now and probably won't go down anytime soon.

But yeah, getting into it, I'm sure your aware of what we do with our defensive linemen. The primary responsibility is for them to play the run and eat space and free up space for the outside linebackers to set the edge/rush the passer and for the ILB's to come up the middle and make plays on the run. If they draw a double team, you're OK with that because there's a good chance that means someone from the second level on the front seven will be unblocked and get a free shot at the quarterback and or runningback. At the same time, you don't want a Vince Wilfork type guy. You want someone who can effect plays with their length and athleticism just as much as they can anchor. As Antion mentioned and we all say, Richard Seymour had a Hall of Fame career doing this. At the time when he came out, he was described as being "too tall for a tackle, not fast enough to be a defensive end". As it turns out, that translates incredibly well into being a five technique. Hopefully you get a guy who can effect the plays in the passing game from that spot too, but honestly that's a secondary objective for both me and this team it seems like.

As far as a one gap scheme, you basically look for a 4-3 UT who looks good coming off the edge and running the arch. Their job is to simply beat the tackle in front of them. It's a much faster scheme and is successful on the basis of chaos at the front seven instead of organized confusion like ours. It's a fun scheme to watch actually and has been very effective for some teams.


That's a very basic definition of that stuff, let me know if you need anything more.

FlyingElvis
02-03-2011, 03:44 PM
Ok, I understand the philosophy part of it, thanks.

So what do you see in each player (Heyward v. Jordan) that makes one the clear favorite for 1 gap v. 2 gap? Is it strictly measurables? Game tape?

I ask b/c I can't imagine both guys have played both roles. So there can't be definitive proof that one guy can 2 gap but the other can't, right?

ElectricEye
02-03-2011, 03:50 PM
Ok, I understand the philosophy part of it, thanks.

So what do you see in each player (Heyward v. Jordan) that makes one the clear favorite for 1 gap v. 2 gap? Is it strictly measurables? Game tape?

I ask b/c I can't imagine both guys have played both roles. So there can't be definitive proof that one guy can 2 gap but the other can't, right?

Cameron Heyward plays with more powder and has greater leg strength. He has more in common with a defensive tackle than an DE contrary to the position he plays. He can make plays on the runner even when he's got a guy on him.

Jordan is a much superior athlete. That offers some advantages obviously, but he'll also get caught out of position easier than because like all good athletes, he'll cheat a bit to make big plays. Easier to take out of the play when he's blocked too, although he's no slouch in that area.

Both of them played similar roles in college and wouldn't have any issue translating to our scheme.

FlyingElvis
02-03-2011, 03:59 PM
Thanks.

Both of them played similar roles in college and wouldn't have any issue translating to our scheme.
This is what I was thinking based strictly on measurables.

As much as I love Seymour, I think it's clear the NFL has changed enough that the balance has shifted considerably and a guy with the ability to pressure the QB is far more desirable.

We didn't spend much time this year discussing our major need for a stout, run stuffing DE to help contain the run. lol

ElectricEye
02-03-2011, 04:02 PM
Don't underestimate Heyward in that regard though. Throw on the tape of the Sugar Bowl. He completely owned DeMarcus Love and disrupted the entire Arkansas passing game. Jordan is the better player at this point, but Heyward really isn't a bad consolation prize.

Razor
02-03-2011, 04:02 PM
We didn't spend much time this year discussing our major need for a stout, run stuffing DE to help contain the run. lol

But I think we should've. It all starts with stopping the run imo. That's why I like Jarvis Jenkins so much. He played 1-tech for Clemson and is actually pretty underrated right now. I think he can play RDE in our scheme and while he might not be a 8 sack player like Seymour, he will eat up a lot of space and make room for the OLB we draft in the first. ;)

ElectricEye
02-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Plus...you know...I thought we needed a stout run stuffing defensive end...

FlyingElvis
02-03-2011, 04:09 PM
oh, a wise guy, eh?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8m29ZLX5ag/TMJ3EUDsVCI/AAAAAAAAGOA/QIECcoPwOg8/s400/THREE+STOOGES+CURLY.jpg


lol


I'm cool with either. Value, value, value. Kerrigan or Jordan @ 17. Heyward in the 20 range as a consolation prize.

ElectricEye
02-03-2011, 04:14 PM
We would be lucky to get Jordan at this point though. If I was one of those guys that did rankings I would probably put him as the best overall defensive linemen in this class right now for 3-4 teams. We might luck out though.

FlyingElvis
02-04-2011, 09:24 AM
I agree. There are too many 3-4 teams in front of us for him to fall to 17. Kerrigan's fit in 3-4 & 4-3 should put him out of range at 17 as well.


Unless we can get one of the top 2 WRs (also doubtful,) I just don't see us staying at 17. Though I could see us just taking Heyward there, which would be fine by me. "Overdrafting" is a term reserved for guys who bust. lol

descendency
02-04-2011, 04:12 PM
After watching some Colorado on ESPN3, I am starting to think Jimmy Smith would be a HUGE steal at 28.

Smith's one deficiency is his stiff hips. He has Asomugha shutdown potential though. Someone will have to work with him a bit to correct those hips... but he could be the best CB in this draft. (Yes, Better than Patrick Peterson, Prince Amukamara, and Brandon Harris)

ElectricEye
02-04-2011, 04:33 PM
I like Jimmy Smith a whole lot. I really don't think he lacks elite agility like some people seem to think. I don't think he's the best corner in the class, but someone is going to get a steal out of him in the late first round for sure. Might not even last that long with a good combine. Really wouldn't mind if he was the pick as long as we keep all our other picks and address our needs.

nepg
02-04-2011, 06:05 PM
I like Jimmy Smith a good bit. Not sure why he's not more highly touted at this point in the draft process. My guess is that it's because his name is so plain. If he had a name like Prince Amukamara, he'd get a lot more hype.

nepg
02-04-2011, 07:12 PM
I Herzlich on this team so bad that I've been going through all the scenarios in which he'd fit on the roster... One is him just being a straight upgrade over Guyton. Guyton might have a leg on him right now, but Herzlich is so much smarter and instinctive that any current physical advantage that Guyton has would be covered (plus Herzlich would lap him within a year from a physical stand-point). The other is that he's an upgrade over Ninkovich as the utility LB. Once he gets the 20 more pounds his frame can easily hold without losing any potential agility or speed, he'd be a force as someone you move all over the defense and use to disguise blitzes and coverages.

Bottom line...I love Guyton and Ninkovich, and there are very few players from the '10 squad I want to see go (wouldn't care if Slater, Wilhite, and a few fringe OLs go), but Herzlich just brings more to the defense comparatively. The only thing keeping him from being a lock for the Patriots is the success they had with Spikes.

I'm debating whether I'd like Herzlich more than a pass rusher (because that just might be the trade-off).

Nalej
02-04-2011, 10:02 PM
I can't think of anything/anyone I'd rather draft (realistically able to) over a quality pass rusher.

ElectricEye
02-04-2011, 10:08 PM
I like Jimmy Smith a good bit. Not sure why he's not more highly touted at this point in the draft process. My guess is that it's because his name is so plain. If he had a name like Prince Amukamara, he'd get a lot more hype.
I think it has something to do with the state of Colorado as a program right now. If they were good, the prospects they're putting out would be judged much differently. Solder suffers from this a bit as well as nobody really saw much of him on a national level this year so the only things we have to go on for us East Coasters are reports and a few games that maybe some of us watched. Hype is a powerful force even for scouts.

Razor
02-06-2011, 09:26 AM
I'm starting to have second thoughts about Kerrigan. Don't get me wrong. I think he's the perfect fit here, he's very talented and seems to have a knack for making plays. But there's another player who as of right now could fall to us (even though he's a top 5 player based on production/upside). That player is of course Aldon Smith. He's big (6'5" 270 lbs), fast and athletically gifted. As a pass rusher athleticism >> intelligence/intangibles, even in Belichick's scheme. Smith doesn't have a non-stop motor like Kerrigan, he doesn't run the arch as well as Quinn and he's a liability against the run. But I think he could get stronger without losing his explosiveness.

Am I the only one thinking about this or do any of you think that Smith might be the better pick? I'd be fine with either to be honest, but if both are available I don't know who I want. Kerrigan is more of a sure thing: what you see is what you get. Smith wouldn't get on the field as fast as Kerrigan, but his upside alone makes him a great pick for us.

ElectricEye
02-06-2011, 09:38 AM
Aldon Smith makes me really nervous. He's the kind of guy who either turns into an elite pass rusher or you never hear from again. His upside is through the roof but the rawness really scares me. We've had some recent examples of raw pass rushers coming in and making an impact early(Jason Pierre-Paul, Carlos Dunlap, ect) but just as often as they succeed they bust out. I'm just not sold yet. For what it's worth, The Pudge isn't either and I really tend to go with his opinion if I'm questioning which direction I'm leaning.

I'm going to have to watch more film on him, but the issue is there really isn't much of it. He was productive just one year and it was his redshirt frosh season too. I'm weary of that.

Razor
02-06-2011, 09:44 AM
I agree with all of that. But I just can't not think about what he could become with some good coaching. He was a beast in his RS freshman season, no doubt about that. He slowed down a bit in 2010, but he did break his leg. And even with that he had a pretty good year in 2010. I think he's a boom or bust prospect too, but at this point I'm leaning towards "boom" with him.

Matthew Jones
02-06-2011, 09:49 AM
The draft is like Christmas for me, and if we come away with a first round pass rusher as a present, I'll be ecstatic. I am a big fan of Aldon Smith and think he'd be an excellent fit in New England. Not a senior but he has considerable upside and the length/size Belichick likes. Seems like a pretty smart kid in interviews too. I really like the Jason Pierre-Paul comparison, I think he's a similar type of player. With a little bit of patience I think our staff could really help Smith develop into a Pro Bowl pass rusher.

ElectricEye
02-06-2011, 09:51 AM
I think the fantastic part of this that would make it easier to pass on him is that he might be more valuable as a 4-3 DE and have some team take him earlier than #17. I would half prefer it to not be our problem.

Conversely, he well could be an impact player early just because of his athletic ability. I would like to see him stay at about the weight he is though as he could have the potential to get too big to be a 3-4 OLB. 270+ guys not named Tamba Hali are pretty rare.

I don't know, I'll wait for the combine. Aldon Smith is the type of guy you decide if you're committed to there. He's not a character concern or even a dumb guy from how he comes off in interviews so that's a solid plus. We do have a history of staying away from guys who come out as Sophomores though, so we'll see.

bhyg
02-08-2011, 07:30 PM
Is anyone as high on Brooks Reed as I am?

proshoota25
02-08-2011, 10:13 PM
Is anyone as high on Brooks Reed as I am?

hahaha electriceye is in love <3 with Reed.

I think he is going to be good, but I wouldnt pick him til the end of the second, but by then, i expect he will be gone

ElectricEye
02-08-2011, 10:17 PM
Is anyone as high on Brooks Reed as I am?

I am quite possibly higher on Brooks Reed than you are.

Razor
02-09-2011, 02:16 PM
Who would you move up to get in the draft (I'm talking early first round)? I think we all agree on Robert Quinn, but what about:

- Patrick Peterson?
- Marcel Dareus?
- AJ Green?
- Julio Jones?
- Others?

proshoota25
02-09-2011, 02:37 PM
Who would you move up to get in the draft (I'm talking early first round)? I think we all agree on Robert Quinn, but what about:

- Patrick Peterson?
- Marcel Dareus?
- AJ Green?
- Julio Jones?
- Others?

id take any of the above to be honest haha but quinn and dareus would be best for us

ElectricEye
02-09-2011, 04:08 PM
I don't think we should trade up this year. The only players that are potentially worth trading up for are AJ Green and Julio Jones. I'm not sure that's even really worth it given that we don't have a huuuuge need and we can sit pretty and get two(or more) impact players.

proshoota25
02-09-2011, 04:17 PM
I don't think we should trade up this year. The only players that are potentially worth trading up for are AJ Green and Julio Jones. I'm not sure that's even really worth it given that we don't have a huuuuge need and we can sit pretty and get two(or more) impact players.

so your telling me you wouldnt trade up a few spots, give away one of our seconds or thirds, in order to secure a quinn or kerrigan? i sure as hell would. just think of our defense with a guy who can actually make opposing QBs panic. We would be much much better

Razor
02-09-2011, 04:22 PM
I don't think we should trade up this year. The only players that are potentially worth trading up for are AJ Green and Julio Jones. I'm not sure that's even really worth it given that we don't have a huuuuge need and we can sit pretty and get two(or more) impact players.

At this point in time I'd prefer quality over quantity. Quinn is easily a top 5 talent and should he fall a bit (which is likely until the Comine) I'd love for us to move up and get him. He just looks like a 12+ sack per year player. Very explosive with great overall athleticism. Just what we need imo. That would likely cost us #17+#60+future 4th or so. But I'd still do it. We would still have #28 and #33 to get a DE and an OL that could start as rookies with the way things are right now. Not to mention two picks in the third...

ElectricEye
02-09-2011, 04:48 PM
Problem is the Quinn's "fall" is only till the combine and is mostly just message board stuff and us forgetting how well he played. I doubt we would trade up for him in the first place or even draft him really because of his character issues. We've passed multiple times on people who haven't directly hurt their football team with their actions...Quinn did that.

As far as Kerrigan goes, that's somewhat more realistic but is it really a good value? He might be there for us anyway, which would be nice...but if he isn't I really don't think there's much of a drop-off between him and the next tier of 3-4 pass rushers.

The rest of the names there really aren't good fits/are out of our price range.

descendency
02-09-2011, 05:57 PM
I think it has something to do with the state of Colorado as a program right now. If they were good, the prospects they're putting out would be judged much differently. Solder suffers from this a bit as well as nobody really saw much of him on a national level this year so the only things we have to go on for us East Coasters are reports and a few games that maybe some of us watched. Hype is a powerful force even for scouts.

Solder suffers from sucking hard at times. He gets abused against speed rushers. (which limits which teams he can and can't play for)

Jimmy Smith suffers from being "reliable" and "lacking big play ability". The same thing they said about Tom Brady at QB.

themitchfootball
02-13-2011, 05:20 PM
Nate Solder really impressed me at the Senior Bowl, and he showed some more flex and bending ability that I thought he had. Everyone gets caught up in his size, but his athletic ability are able to compensate for being almost too tall. He'll probably run a sub 5.0 second 40 yard dash at the combine, and I think he'll probably go in the top fifteen picks. The offensive line class is pretty weak, but it looks like McShay has moved on to Tyron Smith as a target for his hype love fest.

nepg
02-13-2011, 08:02 PM
Solder is kind of a conundrum. The reason he's so touted is his athleticism...because that should help him against athletic pass rushers... But he gets abused by athletic pass rushers, so imo, Solder is useless.

ElectricEye
02-15-2011, 12:40 AM
I'm a big believer in Solder. I don't see this guy that gets consistently beat that some due. People go into him with a very negative attitude for one reason or another. He only had one real productive year and that's sort of a unique thing for an offensive linemen. We're usually on those guys super early, ala Matt Kalil. With no real statistics to say "But he changed!", reputation tends to stick around.

I actually really didn't like him as a prospect going into this year, but I liked what I saw in Mobile and his best football is defiantly ahead of him.

FlyingElvis
02-15-2011, 11:20 AM
^ That last part is what really matters. Give Dante some time with a solid prospect and we'll have a stud. My only concern with Solder is that I don't think we need to invest a high pick on OT since we really only need to fill the RT spot. I think we can do that at the end of round 2.

AntoinCD
02-15-2011, 11:26 AM
^ That last part is what really matters. Give Dante some time with a solid prospect and we'll have a stud. My only concern with Solder is that I don't think we need to invest a high pick on OT since we really only need to fill the RT spot. I think we can do that at the end of round 2.

I agree with this. Why spend a mid-late first on a guy like Solder or Castonzo to play LT when Vollmer has shown he is a better LT than a RT? It makes way more sense to move Vollmer over to LT and take someone like Gilbert etc in the second or third to play RT. If we're gonna invest a high pick to let Scar develop I would prefer it to be on the interior.

FlyingElvis
02-15-2011, 11:49 AM
BB history of value based on position & pick makes me think we'll see DE / CB in round one and OLB / OL in round 2.

I feel like a trade down from 17 is a foregone conclusion at this point, unless a top 10 guy slides. The players / talent available just looks alot like last year to me, with plenty of excellent value to be had in round 2. I hope I'm wrong, as I would love to see a stud coming to down via trade. Trade up or trade for a player *cough* Fitz! *cough*

ElectricEye
02-15-2011, 12:25 PM
Offensive line is one of those things we need to improve but not necessarily overhaul for the sake of it. A first round tackle is in play if we move on from Matt Light, which is a very real possibility. Pretty open what we can do with those picks really.

descendency
02-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Personally, I don't understand the love for Solder over Tyron Smith.

ElectricEye
02-15-2011, 03:43 PM
I don't get what Tyron Smith does better than Solder or somehow has more potential. Solder is the better athlete; both for his size and overall. Both of them need to get bigger and are pretty good run blockers, but Solder has converted more his potential into production than Smith has and has better upside due to his length.

descendency
02-19-2011, 02:16 PM
Anyone else get the feeling that one of the first 3 picks will be traded (out) for a future first rounder? (I really think that pick 33 will be a future first and maybe a current 3rd or something)

Maybe Jake Locker will fall to 33rd and the Raiders will have to have him... so we can have their pick next year too :D

proshoota25
02-19-2011, 04:07 PM
pick 33 is gunna have a lot of value. teams will have to pay dearly in order to get that pick. i know the patriots will value that pick. it will have to atleast be a first next year and some other really high pick this year imo

Razor
02-19-2011, 04:12 PM
I am pretty sure that the is no chance that we are picking at #33 when all is said and done. Not with Belichick's history of making the most out of these kind of opportunities... He should be able to get a future first out of somebody.

Don Vito
02-19-2011, 04:16 PM
I think we will stay at 33. I could be wrong and you really never know with us, but we seem to love those early second rounders. You are usually getting first round talent for a second round price, and there is a ton of flexibility in who you can draft and the expectations/pressure aren't quite as lofty for the player drafted. I could see us moving our late first rounder for sure, or perhaps #17 but I think that #33 is a spot that we are thrilled to have. It all depends on how draft day pans out though.

proshoota25
02-19-2011, 04:18 PM
I think we will stay at 33. I could be wrong and you really never know with us, but we seem to love those early second rounders. You are usually getting first round talent for a second round price, and there is a ton of flexibility in who you can draft and the expectations/pressure aren't quite as lofty for the player drafted. I could see us moving our late first rounder for sure, or perhaps #17 but I think that #33 is a spot that we are thrilled to have. It all depends on how draft day pans out though.

i agree here. 28 is much more likely to get traded in my opinion. esp this year with a draft deep in DEs... why not grab a first round talent, for a second round price? it makes too much sense

ElectricEye
02-19-2011, 07:05 PM
Agree about how the picks are going to go. #28 is the most realistic one to be traded. It all depends on who's on the board and who we feel is going to be there with Carolina's second rounder...but yeah.

Razor
02-20-2011, 03:10 AM
The thing with the 33rd is just that Belichick has almost 24 hours to get the best possible deal done. That's a lot of time for a man like BB. I could definetly see him trading out of that spot.

BradysKnee
02-20-2011, 08:14 AM
The thing with the 33rd is just that Belichick has almost 24 hours to get the best possible deal done. That's a lot of time for a man like BB. I could definetly see him trading out of that spot.

Yeah I agree, BB even said in a press conference last year the new format of round 2 makes it so much easier to trade, and if you are sitting at 33, you get lots of phonecalls.

I totally expect a trade.

Nalej
02-20-2011, 08:53 AM
Good point. I didnt think of it that way. No. 33 is definitely in danger of being traded lol

patriots21
02-20-2011, 09:02 AM
My dream draft would be Cam Jordan at 17, Jon Baldwin at 28, Mikel Leshoure at 33, Justin Houston at 60, Danny Watkins at 74, Ras I dowling at 92, and Joe Barksdale at 98.

Nalej
02-20-2011, 09:51 AM
17- C.Jordan DE... Love it

28- J.Baldwin WR... love his size and what he brings as a WR but I doubt BB would take him with his character concerns. Hankerson later in the draft seems like a more realistic bet

33-M.LeShour RB... I think RB is a need but not an early need. I think we can get the same if not better production from D.Thomas/D.Murray later in the draft

60-J.Houston OLB/DE... Houston here would be a steal, with that, I doubt he's available at this point. I fully expect him to be gone by late 1st/early 2nd

Last three picks, I like with the exception that I think one of the first two OL should be a C. Swap one of them out with a J.Kirkpatrick and it'd be a bit better.

Of course... this is just my thoughts... welcome to the site... stay active...
There's no such thing as too many Patriot fans on this site =)

TNPatsFan
02-20-2011, 10:11 AM
I don't think we can say the Pats are for sure going to trade a specific pick. But it's a safe bet that they will be moving around the draft board. As it stands they only have 5 picks in 2012 so they are almost certain to trade for picks next year. Could be a first or second rounder that they trade for an early pick next year, or it could be a third or fourth that they trade for a second or third next year.

proshoota25
02-20-2011, 03:55 PM
i agree, but what we are missing is that there just arent many roster spots open. the last few years, with all the young talent infused onto the team, there are what, maybe like 5 or 6 total spots available? id rather trade up this year to get talent in those spots where we do need an impact player instead of wasting them on a 6/7th pick who wont make the roster. same goes for trading into next year, there just wont be spots so idk how thatll affect the draft strategy

Don Vito
02-20-2011, 04:26 PM
i agree, but what we are missing is that there just arent many roster spots open. the last few years, with all the young talent infused onto the team, there are what, maybe like 5 or 6 total spots available? id rather trade up this year to get talent in those spots where we do need an impact player instead of wasting them on a 6/7th pick who wont make the roster. same goes for trading into next year, there just wont be spots so idk how thatll affect the draft strategy

I agree with this to an extent, but we have a lot of players who are going to be out in a few years. The aging process caught up to our linebackers a few years ago, and it is about to happen to our OL. Light, Koppen, and Neal will not be here for long and even if they are not as good as they used to be they have meant a lot to this franchise and it will not be easy to replace them (this is why keeping Mankins is so crucial).

We have a lot of great young talent that should be here for a while, but we do also have some spots that will definitely need to be addressed in the near future.

QB-Brady won't play forever, and Hoyer is a nice backup but I doubt he is the future.

RB-I love BJGE and Woodhead, but there is little behind them and who knows if they will be able to produce again like they did this year especially with the OL question marks. I could see us looking at a RB or two in the draft/FA. We don't really use a fullback but we could look at a replacement for Morris. I could see us looking at a guy like Ingram this year.

WR-Lots of questions here. Welker is a great player for us but he is not a #1, he needs someone to take the pressure off him for him to be at his best. We don't have a guy like that on the roster. Tate has speed and playmaking ability, but he has a long ways to go to become a fulltime threat at receiver. Edelman is a nice PR but he struggled with drops at receiver in 2010. Price is raw, and Branch was a nice stopgap last year but he is not a guy we will build around. I could see us wanting a #1 receiver as soon as this draft, if not this year then next year.

TE-Look good here. Crump won't be around forever, might need a #3 TE in a couple of years.

OL-Already addressed this. I don't know how you guys feel about our backups, but we could need 3 or 4 new starters in the next year or two depending on what happens with Mankins.

DL-Wilfork is the only sure thing as a bona fide starter, and if he were to go down we would be screwed. We have some good role players on the DL but how many of them are really going to be impact starters? Warrens is on the downside and is coming off injury, we will probably draft a DL high this year and if not this year than in 2012.

LB-We are looking great at ILB, the same cannot be said for OLB. Cunningham is young and talented, but at least one other starting caliber OLB could be needed. Ninko is OK in a rotation but do we really want him as our feature OLB? We should take and OLB early this year.

CB-McCourty is a stud but there are questions behind him. Bodden is coming off injury, Arrington is a worker but shouldn't really be starting, and Butler is approaching bust level. We could take a corner early this year.

S-Meriweather is inconsistent but I think he will stay. Chung is a good player but struggles in coverage at times, and he is a guy who could be best suited as a situational guy. The same can be said for Sanders and McGowan.

The point of this is that we have some young talent, but we are far from a finished product. We have a lot of good role players but still have a lot of needs that need to be filled.

proshoota25
02-20-2011, 04:32 PM
I agree with this to an extent, but we have a lot of players who are going to be out in a few years. The aging process caught up to our linebackers a few years ago, and it is about to happen to our OL. Light, Koppen, and Neal will not be here for long and even if they are not as good as they used to be they have meant a lot to this franchise and it will not be easy to replace them (this is why keeping Mankins is so crucial).

We have a lot of great young talent that should be here for a while, but we do also have some spots that will definitely need to be addressed in the near future.

QB-Brady won't play forever, and Hoyer is a nice backup but I doubt he is the future.

RB-I love BJGE and Woodhead, but there is little behind them and who knows if they will be able to produce again like they did this year especially with the OL question marks. I could see us looking at a RB or two in the draft/FA. We don't really use a fullback but we could look at a replacement for Morris. I could see us looking at a guy like Ingram this year.

WR-Lots of questions here. Welker is a great player for us but he is not a #1, he needs someone to take the pressure off him for him to be at his best. We don't have a guy like that on the roster. Tate has speed and playmaking ability, but he has a long ways to go to become a fulltime threat at receiver. Edelman is a nice PR but he struggled with drops at receiver in 2010. Price is raw, and Branch was a nice stopgap last year but he is not a guy we will build around. I could see us wanting a #1 receiver as soon as this draft, if not this year then next year.

TE-Look good here. Crump won't be around forever, might need a #3 TE in a couple of years.

OL-Already addressed this. I don't know how you guys feel about our backups, but we could need 3 or 4 new starters in the next year or two depending on what happens with Mankins.

DL-Wilfork is the only sure thing as a bona fide starter, and if he were to go down we would be screwed. We have some good role players on the DL but how many of them are really going to be impact starters? Warrens is on the downside and is coming off injury, we will probably draft a DL high this year and if not this year than in 2012.

LB-We are looking great at ILB, the same cannot be said for OLB. Cunningham is young and talented, but at least one other starting caliber OLB could be needed. Ninko is OK in a rotation but do we really want him as our feature OLB? We should take and OLB early this year.

CB-McCourty is a stud but there are questions behind him. Bodden is coming off injury, Arrington is a worker but shouldn't really be starting, and Butler is approaching bust level. We could take a corner early this year.

S-Meriweather is inconsistent but I think he will stay. Chung is a good player but struggles in coverage at times, and he is a guy who could be best suited as a situational guy. The same can be said for Sanders and McGowan.

The point of this is that we have some young talent, but we are far from a finished product. We have a lot of good role players but still have a lot of needs that need to be filled.

i agree. look at the next two drafts. if we traded our later round picks, we would still come out with 10 potential impact players. thats more than enough on this roster. you know BB is still going to keep around some of the veterans and such.. im just looking at roster spots. he wont cut neal/koppen this year..... so in reality thats less roster spots to be had.

TNPatsFan
02-20-2011, 04:34 PM
I kind of disagree about there not being enough spots for draft picks. I think there is always room for guys who can play so bring in as many as you can.

As it is Taylor and Morris may not be back, Faulk may not be back, they could lose Light and/or Neal, you have room for improvement in the DB's with Arrington, Wilhite, and maybe Butler. Slater's nothing more than a special teamer. And they could sure stand an upgrade over TBC. Those are just off the top of my head. Add in players who will end up on IR and I think there are plenty of roster spots for draft picks to compete for.

I guess I've just always been a believer in having as many draft picks as you can get. Let them compete and if they don't make it then you haven't lost anything. Better to do that than to trade picks away just because you decide ahead of time that they have no shot at making the team. The other side of that is if during the draft you get into the mid to later rounds and the guys you see available just aren't what you're looking for, then sure go ahead and trade those for future picks.

ElectricEye
02-20-2011, 04:58 PM
There's room on the roster. I'm pretty convinced we're going to see at least on surprising cut this offseason, if not more.

Nalej
02-20-2011, 05:15 PM
*coughmattlightcough*

ElectricEye
02-20-2011, 05:33 PM
*coughTyWarrencough*

J255979-11nine
02-20-2011, 06:24 PM
*coughTyWarrencough*

I would punt a baby if this were to happen.

ElectricEye
02-20-2011, 06:45 PM
I'm calling it now. Not saying we do it for sure, but it well could happen. Reasoning;

-He's over 30. We despise players over 30.

-He's been fighting through injuries for a few years now.

-His level of play hasn't been the same the past two healthy years as it was earlier in his career.

I think it would be a bad move, but a hip injury really isn't something you just recover from instantly and he doesn't appear to be aging well health wise.

descendency
02-22-2011, 02:27 AM
In case anyone is curious, we have the 4th best value in the draft according to the heavily biased and completely worthless Jimmy Johnson DVC. But it does give you a raw idea of the value some teams have in the draft.

Here is the total rankings (I churned them in Excel):

1. Broncos
2. Panthers
3. Bills
4. Patriots
5. Bengals
6. Cardinals
7. Browns
8. 49ers
9. Titans
10. Cowboys
11. Texans
12. Lions
13. Chargers
14. Redskins
15. Rams
16. Vikings
17. Jaguars
18. Bucs
19. Giants
20. Eagles
21. Saints
22. Chiefs
23. Colts
24. Dolphins
25. Seahawks
26. Ravens
27. Falcons
28. Bears
29. Steelers
30. Packers
31. Jets
32. Raiders

If you are wondering what it would take to get the #1 value, we would need the equivalent of the 17th overall pick.

Nalej
02-22-2011, 11:21 AM
I honestly don't get what this list shows. Value of players in the draft compared to the draft position of each team?

descendency
02-22-2011, 02:49 PM
I honestly don't get what this list shows. Value of players in the draft compared to the draft position of each team?

The value each team has in the draft.

We have the fourth highest value, or if everyone traded so that they had only 7 picks, the Patriots would be picking 4th overall.

edit: It just shows how strong each teams potential is after the trades are made.

Nalej
02-22-2011, 10:23 PM
Ahhh... got it.... thanks...

Matthew Jones
02-22-2011, 10:58 PM
In case anyone is curious, we have the 4th best value in the draft according to the heavily biased and completely worthless Jimmy Johnson DVC. But it does give you a raw idea of the value some teams have in the draft.

Here is the total rankings (I churned them in Excel):

1. Broncos
2. Panthers
3. Bills
4. Patriots
5. Bengals
6. Cardinals
7. Browns
8. 49ers
9. Titans
10. Cowboys
11. Texans
12. Lions
13. Chargers
14. Redskins
15. Rams
16. Vikings
17. Jaguars
18. Bucs
19. Giants
20. Eagles
21. Saints
22. Chiefs
23. Colts
24. Dolphins
25. Seahawks
26. Ravens
27. Falcons
28. Bears
29. Steelers
30. Packers
31. Jets
32. Raiders

If you are wondering what it would take to get the #1 value, we would need the equivalent of the 17th overall pick.

Very nice work, +rep. Nice to see that the Jets have no trade value this year.

proshoota25
02-23-2011, 07:55 PM
updated my mock in my sig..... def not my favorite, but unfortunately i think its pretty realistic

Nalej
02-23-2011, 09:19 PM
RK makes it a win in my book.

ryno626
02-24-2011, 11:58 AM
Do you guys think running back that early is a possibility?

Razor
02-24-2011, 12:23 PM
Chad Reuter (http://twitter.com/#!/ChadReuter)
"Carimi, when asked about teams he's talked to..."I can't comment on the Patriots". That's a Belichick guy!"

Haha, this made me lol. Looks like he could be our guy at 28 if we decide to go OT.

ElectricEye
02-24-2011, 12:25 PM
That's interesting. I like Carimi a lot, but I'm not sure he's a good system fit.



Stefen Wisniewski apparently came in at 6'3" 313. Bigger than expected. If he tests strong, he might be back in play for me.

Razor
02-24-2011, 12:29 PM
Yeah, I'm waiting for his bench press numbers as well. I've been totally off his band wagon for the last few weeks. I want a guard, but he has to be a) big, b) strong and c) nasty. I like Pouncey's measurables better actually, looks more like a Patriot to me. BB and Scar tend to like "smaller" players wrt. weight in order to get athletic players on the OL. Pouncey just seems like a better pick right now, but if Wis could play center he's definetely an interesting guy for us.

TNPatsFan
02-24-2011, 12:38 PM
Carimi is my favorite OL in this draft. It's hard to project OL's whether or not they fit on the Pats.. at least for me. But hey if you're just looking for a big RT to plow through people he can do that. I happen to think he has very good mobility for a guy that size, and I think he could play LT as well. There were also reports that he looked pretty good playing guard at the Senior Bowl.

I like both Wisnewski and Pouncey. My opinion is that Wisnewski is a better center than guard, and Pouncey is a better guard than center. That probably would make Pouncey a better choice, but I'd be happy if the Pats could get either one of them.

Razor
02-24-2011, 01:53 PM
Andy Hart (http://twitter.com/#!/JumboHart) is reporting that Marcus Gilbert is meeting with the Patriots tonight. Woo-*******-hoo!!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_S3Fk1v4vsCQ/SbftIRF_BcI/AAAAAAAAD78/f8x2EZN5NhE/s320/homer_woohoo.jpg

Gilbert is by far my favorite OT in the draft (for the Patriots). I don't care where we pick him as long as he's a Patriot.

descendency
02-25-2011, 03:01 PM
I like Gilbert. I like Carimi (at Guard... because his feet suck).

proshoota25
02-27-2011, 11:49 AM
mike reiss actually has some pretty good stuff on ESPNBoston.com and the combine and draft. he is giving a lot of love with the connections with the patriots and cam jordan/cam heyward. i think those two may be our top two targets at 17, as of right now

Don Vito
02-27-2011, 09:33 PM
I haven't been able to watch much of the combine, but you better believe I will be watching the defensive linemen and linebackers tomorrow. Here is how I would "big board" rank those two positions for us right now:

DE
1. Nick Fairley (round 1)
2. Marcel Dareus (1)
3. Cameron Jordan (1)
4. Cameron Heyward (1)
5. JJ Watt (1)
6. Muhammed Wilkerson (1-2)
7. Adrian Clayborn (2)
8. Allen Bailey (2)
9. Christian Ballard (2-3)
10. Corey Liuget (2-3)

OLB
1. Robert Quinn (1)
2. Aldon Smith (1)
3. Ryan Kerrigan (1)
4. Da'Quan Bowers (1)
5. Von Miller (1)
6. Justin Houston (1-2)
7. Brooks Reed (1-2)
8. Akeem Ayers (1-2)
9. Jeremy Beal (2)
10. Sam Acho (2)
11. Dontay Moch (2)
12. Jabaal Sheard (2-3)

We need to cash in on these positions this year. Although I am not fans of some of these guys in our defense (Clayborn, Liuget, Ayers amongst others) talent is at a premium at DE and OLB and we really need help at those positions now and for the future.

Guys who could put on a show tomorrow:

-Aldon Smith, might be my favorite OLB prospect for us.
-Quinn, he should set the combine on fire. However; guys like Quinn, Fairley, Dareus, Bowers, and Von Miller should be gone by the time we pick barring a trade up. Cam Jordan could also possibly be added to that list.
-Moch, self explanatory. Still can't see him playing here.
-Ayers, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane guy but he does have some intriguing talent.
-Von Miller, is an amazing athlete. A lot of people don't see him as a 3-4 fit but I think he could definitely do it.
-Wilkerson, is a small school relative unknown but has some talent and looks like a potential fit here.
-Brooks Reed, a freak of nature who could get first round talk after tomorrow.

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 10:29 AM
Well the DL showed out, I really want Aldon Smith. I like a lot of these DL and LB's.

ElectricEye
02-28-2011, 10:31 AM
Great post man.


My guy Brooks Reed just put up a 4.67. I expected a little bit faster, but it's not out of the question for him to run better the second time. Still, at his size that's impressive.

Razor
02-28-2011, 10:49 AM
Well the DL showed out, I really want Aldon Smith. I like a lot of these DL and LB's.

Yeah, me too.. I changed my sig a few days ago, I'm starting to doubt Kerrigan as an OLB. The more I see of him I see stiff hips and mediocre change of direction ability. I still like him, don't get me wrong. But Smith and especially Quinn has what it takes to be a special 3-4 OLB in any scheme. Getting one of them would be great what ever the cost (almost).

ElectricEye
02-28-2011, 10:59 AM
I really don't like what I see out of Aldon Smith in terms of fluidity. He's not a natural change of direction guy.

TNPatsFan
02-28-2011, 02:58 PM
I don't like Aldon Smith at all. He's a project. I haven't seen a lot of him, but nothing I have seen says he can play OLB. And he misses way too many tackles for my liking.

Just my opinion of course but if the Pats took him at 17 that would be an example of forcing a pick just to fill a need. And the Pats don't draft that way, thankfully.

*edit* oh and i forgot to mention he is awful against the run.

descendency
02-28-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't care what JJ Watt is. I want him in NE. Totally a believer. He has athleticism coming out of everywhere.

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 03:28 PM
For DE's, Cam Jordan definitely made his stock skyrocket today. I doubt he will be there at 17.

I am buying Wilkerson as a legit first round option now, he looked very good today and carries 315 unbelievably well.

Ballard ran well too and I could see him being an option in the second round, but personally I feel if we don't take a DE by 33 then we will not take one for a while.

Watt was very impressive, he could have worked himself out of our range. There is also no hope for Fairley or Dareus, but there really never was.

I am cooling a lot on Cam Heyward. I think he could be a good fit here and I would welcome the pick, but after watching some more of him this year (not just the Arky bowl game) he really was a bit inconsistent.

For OLB, Quinn might be a real option at 17. He didn't work out as well as expected but even if he did fall which I think he may, I can't see us drafting a 20 year old who hasn't played football in a year in the first round.

Aldon Smith did very well, but he didn't blow it up enough to make his stock go much higher than it already was. He is a guy I like a lot and is up there for my top choices at 17.

I think Kerrigan is still a very strong possibility, if not the strongest possibility at 17 out of DE's and OLB's. If we address one of those two positions at 17 and Kerrigan is available, I think he will be the pick. I would be very happy with him, but I think Aldon Smith is my favorite OLB for us this draft.

http://media.columbiamissourian.com/multimedia/2010/11/25/media/AldonSmithFile_copy_t_w600_h1200.jpg

ALDON SMITH FANCLUB!

TNPatsFan
02-28-2011, 03:41 PM
The good news is for every player that sees his stock soaring up beyond the Pats reach, it means another good player is dropping down toward them.

Quinn is a mystery to me. Not playing for a whole year has got to drop his stock quite a bit, especially when as you said he is still so young and relatively inexperienced. But everyone keeps mocking him in the top 6 and even saying he could go number one.

I just don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if he fell down to the bottom half of the round. Just wish I could read the minds of BB and Caserio to know how they view him.

FlyingElvis
02-28-2011, 03:46 PM
It's always so exciting leading up to draft day.


Then draft day arrives and BB drives me insane.


We really should be able to fill the positions with the biggest need even if we see a typical trade down party. The only question is whether or not BB et al see the same positions as needs. lol

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 04:03 PM
It's always so exciting leading up to draft day.


Then draft day arrives and BB drives me insane.


We really should be able to fill the positions with the biggest need even if we see a typical trade down party. The only question is whether or not BB et al see the same positions as needs. lol

1. Brandon Harris
1. Titus Young
2. Ahmad Black
2. Shane Vereen

Our draft will be something like that I am sure. We all want to build up the front 7 and o-line but I could see us completely neglecting those positions in the first two rounds.

Matthew Jones
02-28-2011, 04:05 PM
1. Brandon Harris
1. Titus Young
2. Ahmad Black
2. Shane Vereen

Our draft will be something like that I am sure. We all want to build up the front 7 and o-line but I could see us completely neglecting those positions in the first two rounds.

Stop giving me nightmares.

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 04:09 PM
Stop giving me nightmares.

It doesn't matter if we can't get sacks or stop a third down, we need more ************* role players with special teams potential! I am slightly joking, I really like what we did with the draft last year but we need another one like that. Only this year the focus needs to be on defense and we need to pull in a couple of offensive linemen, anybody who watched us last year could tell you that and I really think this year the draft could go more the way we expect it to than it ever has. Yes, we may take a corner in the first or a RB/WR early, but I think/hope we will draft to continue to rebuild the defense and add some youth to the OL.

FlyingElvis
02-28-2011, 04:15 PM
1. Brandon Harris
1. Titus Young
2. Ahmad Black
2. Shane Vereen

Our draft will be something like that I am sure. We all want to build up the front 7 and o-line but I could see us completely neglecting those positions in the first two rounds.

I almost neg repped this. lol

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 04:18 PM
I almost neg repped this. lol

If it happens feel free to do so. If that is our draft I will be convinced BB looks at this site to see the stuff we post and he just toys with all of us on draft day. I will sacrifice myself it the draft pans out like that, but sadly deep down we all expect the draft to look something like that.

TNPatsFan
02-28-2011, 04:25 PM
Something like that could happen. But if we know BB it would be more like this:

1. Mike Pouncey
1. Marcus Gilbert
2. Ahmad Black
2. Will Hill

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 04:45 PM
Something like that could happen. But if we know BB it would be more like this:

1. Mike Pouncey
1. Marcus Gilbert
2. Ahmad Black
2. Will Hill

Ha...that is definitely a real possibility too.

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 04:51 PM
Jimmy Smith might be testing himself out of our range as well, he might not even make it to 17. As much as I want to draft front 7 and OL; I would not complain if we draft PP, Prince, Or Smith. After them though I would want to hold off on corner although I could see us really liking Brandon Harris.

TNPatsFan
02-28-2011, 04:56 PM
Sounds crazy but I don't like cocky CB's who haven't even entered the league yet. If they've been there and done it, then they can be as cocky as they want. But when they are coming in that way as rookies then they are either like Ellis Hobbs (cocky but not very good) or like Asante Samuel (cocky and good and think they should be paid a bazillion dollars).

Honestly I never even heard of Smith before a few months ago. I feel like if he was really that good I would have known about him. I'd pass on him.

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 05:00 PM
Sounds crazy but I don't like cocky CB's who haven't even entered the league yet. If they've been there and done it, then they can be as cocky as they want. But when they are coming in that way as rookies then they are either like Ellis Hobbs (cocky but not very good) or like Asante Samuel (cocky and good and think they should be paid a bazillion dollars).

Honestly I never even heard of Smith before a few months ago. I feel like if he was really that good I would have known about him. I'd pass on him.

He suffers from a bad case of Colorado Buffaloes syndrome, it is terrible for your exposure. Revis was great at Pitt but he wasn't on an especially great team and he didn't have much else to help him on defense, but he was selected right around where Smith should be. With guys like Smith you just need to watch their tape, if teams didn't do that then the Jets would have drafted Leon Hall over Revis. Hall is a good corner, but he is not Revis. If a great corner is on a bad team, you can just avoid him. That happens a lot in college and that is why I feel Smith will surprise people and get drafted high and have a stellar career much like Revis did. Asomugha is still underrated by most of the league because he is on a terrible team, and great corners on terrible teams usually don't put up the stats to gain that exposure.

TNPatsFan
02-28-2011, 05:10 PM
Perhaps. But I had heard of, and was very familiar with Revis long before the draft. In fact I was very familiar with Terrence Wheatley as a Colorado Buffalo for a couple years before he was drafted. I guess nothing drew my my attention to Smith this year for some reason.

Is he an underclassman? Sometimes I do neglect some underclassmen during the season as I tend to focus on seniors or at least guys I have a strong feeling will enter the draft.

descendency
02-28-2011, 05:43 PM
2. Will Hill

That guy won't be drafted before the middle of day 3 (if at all)

edit: I get it now lol.

BradysKnee
02-28-2011, 05:56 PM
Man this draft is tough.

So many guys I'd love to have that are all very possible at all 4 picks. I don't see how we can't have a good draft.

I am now on the JJ Watt bandwagon, him over Cameron Jordan for me now.
Kerrigan has impressed me with his good athleticism today too, so him or Smith are pretty much ==.

ElectricEye
02-28-2011, 08:54 PM
Perhaps. But I had heard of, and was very familiar with Revis long before the draft. In fact I was very familiar with Terrence Wheatley as a Colorado Buffalo for a couple years before he was drafted. I guess nothing drew my my attention to Smith this year for some reason.

Is he an underclassman? Sometimes I do neglect some underclassmen during the season as I tend to focus on seniors or at least guys I have a strong feeling will enter the draft.

Smith is a Senior and he has allowed 12 completions over the past few years. Not having heard of a prospect because of national exposure is obviously a bad line of reasoning to neglect ability. He isn't challenged often, but that's generally an effect of him getting and maintaining good coverage. I agree with what Don Vito said about Colorado and have said the same thing in the past about both he and Solder. If the Buffaloes were in the national spotlight during his tenure, he would be right on par with Peterson and Amukamara.


I don't care what JJ Watt is. I want him in NE. Totally a believer. He has athleticism coming out of everywhere.

Plenty of room on the bandwagon, but I've been at the front for awhile ;)

descendency
02-28-2011, 10:16 PM
Perhaps. But I had heard of, and was very familiar with Revis long before the draft. In fact I was very familiar with Terrence Wheatley as a Colorado Buffalo for a couple years before he was drafted. I guess nothing drew my my attention to Smith this year for some reason.

Is he an underclassman? Sometimes I do neglect some underclassmen during the season as I tend to focus on seniors or at least guys I have a strong feeling will enter the draft.
He's a Redshirt Senior.

He's easy to miss. He's the guy at Colorado everyone is avoiding. AJ Green against Colorado destroyed their secondary. He had 2 touchdowns, 119 yards and 7 catches. None of that against Jimmy Smith. I think the line was 3 attempts, 2 completions like 3 yards or something.

TNPatsFan
02-28-2011, 10:23 PM
Sounds good. Looking for some video of him there's not a lot out there. What I'm seeing looks decent. Not the greatest tackler I've seen but same can be said for a lot of CB's.

I'll remain a little skeptical simply because I feel like if he's really that good then why isn't he being talked about as a top 10 or even top 5 pick like Patrick Peterson.

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 10:28 PM
Sounds good. Looking for some video of him there's not a lot out there. What I'm seeing looks decent. Not the greatest tackler I've seen but same can be said for a lot of CB's.

I'll remain a little skeptical simply because I feel like if he's really that good then why isn't he being talked about as a top 10 or even top 5 pick like Patrick Peterson.

He might not be on Peterson's level, but so much of the lack of hype comes from the college team he played for and Peterson has had all eyes on him since high school. Like I said he may not end up being what Peterson will be, but he is a early-mid first round corner prospect if you ask me. PP and Prince are very rare talents at corner and Smith is right behind them, not as far off as you would think.

descendency
02-28-2011, 10:29 PM
His athleticism doesn't translate all that well on the field and he plays on a really ****** team. He didn't have Ndamukong Suh or the Tigers DL to help him out.

He's my #2 corner (after some major deliberation on whether PP had elite coverage skills or whether he was just abusing people with elite athleticism). I watched quite a few of CUs whole games to scout him. (which is tough, because they're quite hard to watch.

Don Vito
02-28-2011, 10:31 PM
This draft really is insanely talented on the defensive side of the ball, every position besides safety and maybe 3-4 NT is absolutely loaded. We need to cash in and we are in perfect position to do so, no excuses for dancing around our true top needs this year. We need to add youth and talent to this defense and this is the draft to do it.

descendency
03-01-2011, 01:01 AM
With a little bit of luck in a pre-combine draft:

JJ Watt
Jimmy Smith
Brooks Reed

:D

It completely ignores the teams need on offense, but wow would that be a defense.

proshoota25
03-01-2011, 07:38 AM
With a little bit of luck in a pre-combine draft:

JJ Watt
Jimmy Smith
Brooks Reed

:D

It completely ignores the teams need on offense, but wow would that be a defense.

lol thats def a dream. doubt watt or smith last to those spots

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 09:27 AM
With a little bit of luck in a pre-combine draft:

JJ Watt
Jimmy Smith
Brooks Reed

:D

It completely ignores the teams need on offense, but wow would that be a defense.
Did you and me just become best friends?

I'm glad people are finally coming around on Reed. He's honestly more than a workout warrior too. He's just one of those guys who is going to be significantly better as an OLB in a 3-4 due to his actions and fluidity. He's high effort style translates well to standing up and picking holes through blocking schemes too.

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 09:47 AM
We were all talking up the possibility of Ahmad Black a few weeks ago. Really, really bad 40 times with 4.74 and 4.78. He would be off my personal board for that, or at least be moving down to the bottom of it. That's simply not fast enough to play anywhere but inside and teams could still exploit that past the first ten yards if they key in on him.

TNPatsFan
03-01-2011, 10:18 AM
I like Reed but I've wondered why his production wasn't really all that impressive statistically. When I watched Arizona games this year he didn't really stand out.

But after watching Reed in the Senior Bowl I now wonder if the reason he didn't stand out at Arizona is because he is actually more suited to play OLB. He might end up being better in the NFL than he was in college.

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 10:22 AM
See, I disagree about him not standing out to an extent. He was productive when he was healthy, but dealt with some nagging type injuries that slowed him at time. Elmore and some of the other Arizona State defensive linemen sort of gobbled up some of the potential sacks he could put up, but he got fairly consistent penetration into the backfield and made his mark on a lot of plays. Not stellar production statistically, but pretty good. Combine that with the natural athletic ability and playing a position that suites him better and you have a guy who you can feel pretty safe drafting a little bit higher than the numbers would say you should.

TNPatsFan
03-01-2011, 10:22 AM
Nice article from Reiss on 10 possible Pats targets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=reiss_mike&id=6169791

In short the list is:
Sam Acho
Brandon Harris
Cam Heyward
Cam Jordan
Ryan Kerrigan
Greg McElroy
John Moffitt
Mike Pouncey
Shane Vereen
JJ Watt

I like that list. I'll take as many of those guys as we can get.

TNPatsFan
03-01-2011, 10:26 AM
See, I disagree about him not standing out to an extent. He was productive when he was healthy, but dealt with some nagging type injuries that slowed him at time. Elmore and some of the other Arizona State defensive linemen sort of gobbled up some of the potential sacks he could put up, but he got fairly consistent penetration into the backfield and made his mark on a lot of plays. Not stellar production statistically, but pretty good. Combine that with the natural athletic ability and playing a position that suites him better and you have a guy who you can feel pretty safe drafting a little bit higher than the numbers would say you should.

That's good info. Lots of times there are guys who have nagging injuries like that and we aren't really aware of them. They may be rated higher if they had been healthy. I like Brooks. Don't know if I'd go first round or pick 33, but I'd feel good about it any time after that.

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 10:28 AM
I really have to look at Acho a bit closer. He tested very well athletically and looked pretty good in drills. I'm not sure he's got the length we look for in a pass rusher and that's shown itself to be a factor in our evaluation process multiple times throughout, but I think the hope is that some of those restrictions will be lifted a bit this year.

Kerrigan helped himself a ton working out like he did, always expected him to test out better than people said he would. But still, is he fluid enough to be an OLB? It's a question we probably won't have a conclusive answer to even after draft day.

Vereen is a guy I think is flying under the radar a bit. He didn't test quite as well as expected in terms of speed, but the guy can play. Cal RB's are as well coached as they come in terms of catching the ball out of the backfield and having the ability to pass protect. Even though we have guys that excel in those roles already, we love complete players.

As far as Watt goes, I'm pretty convinced if he somehow makes it to #17 he should be the pick at this point.

TNPatsFan
03-01-2011, 10:46 AM
Two comparable players from the same conference, Jeremy Beal and Sam Acho. I have been a lot higher on Beal over the course of the season and even through the Senior Bowl Just seemed like a better player to me. But it is looking now like Beal may not be able to play OLB and that Acho has more potential there. Acho's shortness does scare me though.

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 10:49 AM
I've never been much of a Beal guy. He's a limited athlete and doesn't have a whole lot of OLB potential because of it. He isn't the greatest technician in the world either. He has pretty good burst once he beats his man...but I think he's limited to a situational rush end at the next level in terms of role.

descendency
03-01-2011, 01:06 PM
Beal may go undrafted. He has no athleticism. He was a Gerald McCoy product.

Acho has great agility (best 3 cone drill) and had a great 10 yard split, so he should have tore up the short shuttle, but didn't. Then he was no where to be found in the broad jump.

I didn't see the positional drills, but I wonder how Acho did.

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 02:50 PM
He did pretty good. Looked alright at linebacker, nothing super special or anything, but I think he proved he can play there as much as you can in those drills.

Nalej
03-02-2011, 10:42 AM
Anyone's thoughts on J.Houston? Put up good numbers on bench and 40
But more importantly, I think he should he could play in space on his drills.
His 270 frame looks so BB-esque... I could see him getting picked at 17 if Kerrigan is gone

TNPatsFan
03-02-2011, 10:50 AM
Beal may go undrafted. He has no athleticism. He was a Gerald McCoy product.



He didn't play with McCoy this year and he looked great.

But yeah I see what you're saying. He looked pretty awful in the combine workouts. And what was that forty time, 5.16 or something? Almost makes you wonder if he was injured. But sometimes guys look good on the field but just don't have what it takes for the NFL. Dropping Beal to the late rounds on my board.

Nalej
03-02-2011, 10:54 AM
I thought it was a mistake at first when I saw that 5+ forty

Don Vito
03-02-2011, 06:27 PM
Acho is very intelligent as well, I think he could be a very real possibility for us. I would prefer we look at Aldon Smith, Kerrigan, Quinn, Reed, or a few other before him though.

TNPatsFan
03-02-2011, 07:00 PM
Reiss reporting Stephen Neal is retiring. I feel like this makes it even more certain the Pats will be taking an OG early in this draft.

ElectricEye
03-02-2011, 07:59 PM
Provided we somehow keep Mankins, not sure that's 100% true. Wisniewski is the guy now with his combine performance for me is we do though.

Apparently, Nick Kaczur is on his way out as well.

Matthew Jones
03-02-2011, 08:17 PM
So our line now looks like this:

T - Matt Light (UFA), Sebastian Vollmer, Mark LeVoir, Quinn Ojinnaka, Steve Maneri

G - Logan Mankins (holdout?), Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell, Rich Ohrnberger, Thomas Austin

C - Dan Koppen

I could see us drafting 1-2 tackles, 1-2 guards, and a center. We need to re-sign Matt Light to allow us to address other positions early on, and a deal with Logan Mankins would be great too. I'm hoping for Wisniewski at #33, someone like Moffitt at #60, and a developmental/swing tackle in the fourth or fifth round. A late round flier would be nice too.

ElectricEye
03-02-2011, 08:18 PM
Kind of sucks to have to rebuild our offensive line at a time like this...

TNPatsFan
03-02-2011, 08:50 PM
Each year I usually post my Patriots "anti-draft" as my signature showing players that I don't want the Pats to draft. There really aren't any of those this year. I don't really like Aldon Smith or Wilkerson to the Pats in round 1 but that's about it. There are a lot of players I do like though, so I'm going to post my dream draft as my sig instead. Some of these may be wishful thinking that they would be available, but that's what makes it a dream draft.

So here is my 2011 Patriots Wishful Thinking Draft...

proshoota25
03-03-2011, 10:34 AM
thatd be a pretty beastly draft haha

ryno626
03-03-2011, 12:47 PM
that would be a beastly draft fo sho! do we really take a RB that early? Seems like a luxury pick right now. Just out of curiosity who else would have been sitting there at #33

TNPatsFan
03-03-2011, 12:56 PM
If I were to adjust it I'd move an OT into that 33 spot (Sherrod perhaps), then take an RB later at 3b or 4.

Either that or take Heyward at 28, move Wis back to 33, and then replace one of the later OL's with an RB. That would give us two good young bookend DE's in Heyward and Jenkins (but we'd only get 2 OL's).

descendency
03-03-2011, 01:09 PM
I personally can not see any way that the Patriots keep all 3 of their top 33 picks. I don't mean trade down, I mean trade out. A 2012 first from a team that could be top 5 would be awesome.

edit: Keep in mind, 2012 will likely feature two QBs in the top 5 (Barkley and Luck). This means we would have open season on any non-QB prospect coming out next year.

ryno626
03-03-2011, 02:22 PM
I personally can not see any way that the Patriots keep all 3 of their top 33 picks. I don't mean trade down, I mean trade out. A 2012 first from a team that could be top 5 would be awesome.

edit: Keep in mind, 2012 will likely feature two QBs in the top 5 (Barkley and Luck). This means we would have open season on any non-QB prospect coming out next year.

Just like with the Raiders last year....haha just kidding. I'm sure Bill and company will be on the phone all night and the next day fielding offers for that #33 pick

proshoota25
03-03-2011, 02:32 PM
ive said it before, and ill say it again. i believe #28 has a much higher chance of getting traded than #33. pats may not want to pay two guys first round money.... 33 you get a first rounder for second round money. in the eyes of the front office.... prolly cant beat it unless a team absolutely overwhelms you with an offer

ElectricEye
03-03-2011, 05:21 PM
It all depends on how thing fall on draft day, but I tend to agree with you.

descendency
03-05-2011, 04:34 AM
ive said it before, and ill say it again. i believe #28 has a much higher chance of getting traded than #33. pats may not want to pay two guys first round money.... 33 you get a first rounder for second round money. in the eyes of the front office.... prolly cant beat it unless a team absolutely overwhelms you with an offer

I know this will probably cause every Patriots fan's heart drop (because they know I'm probably right), but I think it's far more likely that pick 28 gets traded down and pick 33 gets traded out.

Having said that, I think this patriots jersey is awesome:

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7553/wattb.jpg

TNPatsFan
03-05-2011, 08:18 AM
Everybody's so sure of the trades the Pats will make. I mean yeah I think they'll move around but to say they're going to trade this specific pick and trade it to next year or trade this specifc back, I dunno. There's no way to predict that. They made four picks in the second round a couple years ago. We never thought they'd do that. And they made three second round picks last year. Maybe they'll just move 28 back and take three second rounders this year too. Who knows? I honestly think it simply depends on what players are on the board. They aren't going to trade to next year or back into the second round because of some philosophy. If the guy they like is there and they don't think they can get him later, they'll make the pick. I could even see them trading up if someone like Quinn were to fall out of the top 10.

TNPatsFan
03-05-2011, 08:22 AM
As I was typing that last message another thought came to mind. I don't have any knowledge about this but it's something that I have just always had a feeling about with BB. I really believe the reason he does so much trading back and trading into the next year is because he probably has a very small draft board of guys he really wants. I think he moves around to get those specific guys. He may have some second choice type of guys that he takes if he can't get his first choice, but if not he just moves the pick. I'm sure the financials of where the pick is has some influence, but I do believe a lot of it is just moving around to get "his guys" and if he can't he trades the pick to the next year. And of course that's why we fans end up agonizing when he keeps passing over the guys we want. Maybe those guys just aren't on his list.

nepg
03-05-2011, 10:34 AM
They trade back and out of spots because they only have so many roster spots. He'd rather move the pick to the next year by trading it than waste it on a guy that won't make the roster and won't last on the PS.

ElectricEye
03-05-2011, 11:24 AM
Yeah, it's a flexibility thing. I don't agree with it 100% of the time, but it works for the most part.

descendency
03-08-2011, 12:52 AM
I just read on another site that Tom Condon is JJ Watt's agent. This is the same Condon (I keep typing Condom and then having to change the m to an n) that Ben Watson used. The Patriots have not drafted a Condon client sense. . .

Here's the exact quote:
J.J. Watt's agent is Tom Condon. The Patriots have a policy not to deal with any of Condon's clients because of an ugly incident that occurred with Ben Watson several years ago. New England has not drafted a Condon player since.

Not exactly a guarantee, but kind of depressing.

RWills
03-08-2011, 07:51 AM
When watching Cam Jordan at the Sr bowl and combine it was obvius that this guy can play DT, DE in a 3-4 and 4-3. As I was watching how swift and smooth is feet were I wondered if he an play the Elephant like McGinest if he just dropped 10-15...at first I though I was a little nutz but then I read the same thinking from PFW, one of the sites I trust

Cameron Jordan

While he weighed in at 287 pounds at the Senior Bowl, the Cal standout showed surprising quickness and agility, leading some to believe he could slim down and play an outside 'backer spot. While his current weight slots him as a solid defensive end in either a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme, he also has the versatility to play inside at defensive tackle, like former teammate Tyson Alualu, who saw his stock rise last year in Jacksonville thanks in part to his versatility. A team that likes to utilize its players in a variety of positions, like the Patriots used to do with Willie McGinest, seems like the best fit for Jordan.

FlyingElvis
03-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Here's what I think is reasonable based on recent analysis / rankings / mocks, etc. Of course, OLB anywhere prior to mid second is probably unrealistic, but whatever. lol

17. Cam Heyward DE Ohio St.
28. Justin Houston OLB Georgia
33. Stefen Wisniewski C Penn St.
60. Clint Boling OT Georgia (T/G for us - versatility is king!)

ElectricEye
03-08-2011, 11:11 AM
Not a big Houston fan or so big on Heyward in that spot. It's a good mock contingent upon how things fall, but I would prefer other players at this point.

FlyingElvis
03-08-2011, 11:24 AM
Me, too.

I'm just preparing myself for when we pass on Kerrigan.

RWills
03-08-2011, 01:45 PM
To help support this Cam Jordan's to Elephant is the 3-cone and short shuttle he ran was better than Quinn's numbers

FlyingElvis
03-08-2011, 03:35 PM
I'd be happy with Jordan at 17. I doubt he makes it there, but it'd be great.

nepg
03-08-2011, 05:31 PM
Here's what I think is reasonable based on recent analysis / rankings / mocks, etc. Of course, OLB anywhere prior to mid second is probably unrealistic, but whatever. lol

17. Cam Heyward DE Ohio St.
28. Justin Houston OLB Georgia
33. Stefen Wisniewski C Penn St.
60. Clint Boling OT Georgia (T/G for us - versatility is king!)

I don't think they'll draft a "versatility" OL that early. 2nd round is a premium pick for OL for the Pats. The only position-unapparent guys I'd see them drafting that early are Pouncey or Wisniewski.

BradysKnee
03-08-2011, 05:56 PM
Starting to get a hunch that Brooks Reed will be a patriot.
I can see is grabbing Heyward or Watt or someone early, trading 28, and picking Reed at 33.

Nalej
03-08-2011, 06:58 PM
Here's what I think is reasonable based on recent analysis / rankings / mocks, etc. Of course, OLB anywhere prior to mid second is probably unrealistic, but whatever. lol

17. Cam Heyward DE Ohio St.
28. Justin Houston OLB Georgia
33. Stefen Wisniewski C Penn St.
60. Clint Boling OT Georgia (T/G for us - versatility is king!)

I love it.
I guess I'm higher on Houston than most but I like him for us.
He played the 34 OLB already, didn't cover in space much but he knows how to rush the passer while standing up. There's less of a transition than the other 34 OLB prospects.
I agree 17 is a bit high for Heyward but since when does that matter to BB?
You can't argue with a 1st rd that nets us two starters on defense.
I love the 2nd rd as well. OLine def needs to be addressed.
Wisnieski impressed with his strength at the combine... and I'm a homer :)

nepg
03-08-2011, 11:16 PM
#33 seems likely to not be a pick the Patriots have when it comes around. They'll be on the phone all night and trade that one. I'm definitely getting a Brooks Reed vibe from the Pats, though. Similar to Cunningham last year.

proshoota25
03-09-2011, 03:29 AM
#33 seems likely to not be a pick the Patriots have when it comes around. They'll be on the phone all night and trade that one. I'm definitely getting a Brooks Reed vibe from the Pats, though. Similar to Cunningham last year.

im pretty sure none of us pats fans saw cunningham in the second? or am i the only one who saw that as like a "wow" pick?

descendency
03-09-2011, 06:34 AM
im pretty sure none of us pats fans saw cunningham in the second? or am i the only one who saw that as like a "wow" pick?

I don't think anyone saw cunningham coming, but I think it was obvious we were going after an athletic DE with good character. After you go back and watch film, it is kind of obvious - actually.

That said, hindsight is 20/20.

FlyingElvis
03-09-2011, 08:22 AM
I'd say pick 28 and pick 33 will both have tremendous trade value for us simply because of the current QB rankings. Just about any source you can find has Mallet / Ponder / Locker as fringe first round (Mallet) and early second round values.

I think the late 20s will be prime picks for teams looking to trade back into the first to secure Mallett (see Tebow, Tim.) We could very well trade back a few spots from 17, as well, and have 2 picks in that late 20 range.

Then the first pick of day two will have the same value for those teams who missed out on the top 3 and want to secure Ponder / Locker.

nepg
03-09-2011, 11:44 AM
im pretty sure none of us pats fans saw cunningham in the second? or am i the only one who saw that as like a "wow" pick?
It was pretty widely reported that that's who the Pats were targetting as the OLB they were going to draft. Maybe most people weren't excited about passing on some other guys, but I think we all had a pretty good idea that the Pats were going to draft Cunningham. They didn't hide that one at all.

BradysKnee
03-09-2011, 12:25 PM
Pats have had private workouts with:

Cortez Allen: Projects to safety for us, but maybe some nickel.
Allen Bailey: Very possible pick for us.
Corbin Bryant: Another Big DE.

Seems even with the Stroud signing, DL is a priority... Could spell the end for Ty Warren.

Seems with the depth of this class though, might be waiting till rd 2 for DL.