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nepg
03-09-2011, 12:38 PM
Stroud is at the end of his days. I doubt they expect anything out of him. The Stroud signing has zero implications on the draft or anyone else on the rosters. I like Bailey. He's an interesting player. He could play almost anywhere from Nickel/Dime NT to 3-4 OLB for the Pats with the right development.

RWills
03-09-2011, 07:04 PM
I don't think anyone saw cunningham coming, but I think it was obvious we were going after an athletic DE with good character. After you go back and watch film, it is kind of obvious - actually.

That said, hindsight is 20/20.

I had the Pats taking him in round 3 and was talking him up before the draft rating better than Dunlap, I was excited to see him get picked though a round off, I would call it the BB factor.

I can see a tackle early because after Sherrod(who the Pats talked to, forgive me for not remembering the site) the tackles become very questionable. I can see Castonzo cause of his location, smarts, and resume but he scares me a little. I like Carimi at 28 because he can start instintly at RG because I do believe Matt Light will be back.

I don't think Gilbert or Carpenter will be Pats, they don't fit what they look for

I position nobody is talking about is slot corner/FS

Merriweather and Sanders are FA's and I am willing to bet this will be the last season for Merriweather, he freestyles way to much for their liking and he will price his way out, me personally I think he is extremely talented and I hope they do bring him back but I doubt it.

Dowling and Gilchrist seem to me that they can be looked at in round 3.

Thoughts?

RWills
03-10-2011, 05:31 AM
spoke to soon

per rotoworld

A story surfaced on Deadspin.com early Thursday claiming that a Florida lawyer for two gunshot victims is accusing Patriots S Brandon Meriweather of shooting the men outside a house party on February 27.
We're packing it in for the night, and must be clear: This story is totally unconfirmed. Whether or not it's true, it's probably going to be big news on Thursday. According to attorney John Morgan, Meriweather's friend beat up a woman, and things escalated into a brawl when the woman's brother arrived at the party. Meriweather is accused of pulling a gun, and shooting the brother and another man. The brother was "grazed," and the other man was hit in the head. No arrests have been made. We'll have more around 8:30AM ET.

BradysKnee
03-10-2011, 06:13 AM
If any truth to this, release the piece of trash. What a tool.

descendency
03-10-2011, 06:26 AM
Maybe we'll get lucky and the Bengals will beg us to trade him to them.

AntoinCD
03-10-2011, 06:33 AM
Maybe we'll get lucky and the Bengals will beg us to trade him to them.

Yeah I'd trade him to the Bengals for the 4th overall pick and Leon Hall

BradysKnee
03-10-2011, 06:37 AM
Yeah I'd trade him to the Bengals for the 4th overall pick and Leon Hall

BB: Hey you guys want our playmaking safety, Meriweather for I dunno... #4 and Leon hall?
ML: Hmmm...
BB: It's a good deal, you should take it.
ML: Ok, but we want a 7th rounder too.
BB: Well, ok, I'll give it up.
ML: Sucker....

descendency
03-10-2011, 07:30 AM
BB: Hey you guys want our playmaking safety, Meriweather for I dunno... #4 and Leon hall?
ML: Hmmm...
BB: It's a good deal, you should take it.
ML: Ok, but we want a 7th rounder too.
BB: Well, ok, I'll give it up.
ML: Sucker....

We don't have a 7th :(

AntoinCD
03-10-2011, 07:32 AM
We don't have a 7th :(

2012 7th!!! Let's make it happen

RWills
03-10-2011, 08:40 AM
To go back a few posts and support my theory even more that Cam Jordan could play elephant for us this is from NFL.com under the pro day blogs

There’s a hybrid, and then there’s California’s Cameron Jordan who might be asked to go the extra mile.

The Golden Bears’ defensive end had his talents on full display at the school’s pro day on Wednesday in front of 30 scouts from 15 NFL teams. He was even asked to do something he rarely does.

Somebody got the wild idea of having Jordan drop in coverage, in addition to his regular position drills. He’s a good prospect, but how in the world can you get a 286-pound defensive end to cover anybody? Maybe he is that good, though.

descendency
03-10-2011, 09:41 AM
It's kind of sad, but even when he shoots a gun... the bullets take bad angles.

TNPatsFan
03-10-2011, 10:15 AM
2012 7th!!! Let's make it happen

We don't have a 2012 7th either.

AntoinCD
03-10-2011, 10:17 AM
We don't have a 2012 7th either.

God damn it!!! We gotta make this happen somehow

descendency
03-10-2011, 10:19 AM
Maybe someone will give us a 7th for Matthew Slater?

TNPatsFan
03-10-2011, 10:20 AM
This Cameron Jordan as an OLB talk is some of the most ridiculous nonsense I have ever heard. The guy sure has the hype machine going though. He wasn't a great player in college. Now he's not only a top 10 pick but he's going to play both DL and OLB?

First off, he'd have to lose 17 pounds just to get down to Willie McGinest's weight, and Willie was a huge dude. If he loses all that weight and gets down to 270, then he pretty much can't be used on the DL any more. Certainly not in the base defense. Personally I think he's already kind of small for the Pats base 3-4 defense anyway.

And secondly, what makes anybody think he could even make that kind of transition. 250 pound college DE's have a hard enough time converting to OLB. So why should we think Jordan can do it?

It just doesn't make sense to me. You'd be wasting Jordan's talent as a D-Lineman to basically conduct an experiment with him at a new position. If they want an OLB they should just draft an OLB. Or at least take a college DE that is the right size and has enough athleticism to project well to OLB like Kerrigan or Smith or Reed.

TNPatsFan
03-10-2011, 10:21 AM
Maybe someone will give us a 7th for Matthew Slater?

Or just include Slater in the deal to the Bengals. That works for me.

FlyingElvis
03-10-2011, 11:57 AM
It's kind of sad, but even when he shoots a gun... the bullets take bad angles.

so


much


win

Matthew Jones
03-10-2011, 12:00 PM
Maybe someone will give us a 7th for Matthew Slater?

Why would we trade him? He's one of our best special teams players, and can fill in during emergency situations on both sides of the ball.

Razor
03-10-2011, 12:00 PM
It's kind of sad, but even when he shoots a gun... the bullets take bad angles.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to descendency again.

ten charrrrr

descendency
03-10-2011, 12:06 PM
Why would we trade him? He's one of our best special teams players, and can fill in during emergency situations on both sides of the ball.

Specialist can always be found.

Matthew Jones
03-10-2011, 01:39 PM
Specialist can always be found.

Why would we trade one of the best special teams players in the league for a 7th round pick though? What are we getting out of that? A mediocre special teams player? Slater saves us a lot of roster spots by acting as a member of every special teams unit and an emergency WR/FS/KR. I wouldn't trade him for a fourth rounder.

By the way guys, I just posted a new big board in the Draft section, it's not really related to the Patriots any more than usual but I thought some of you might want to check it out:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46198

TNPatsFan
03-10-2011, 02:19 PM
Why would we trade one of the best special teams players in the league for a 7th round pick though? What are we getting out of that? A mediocre special teams player? Slater saves us a lot of roster spots by acting as a member of every special teams unit and an emergency WR/FS/KR. I wouldn't trade him for a fourth rounder.

By the way guys, I just posted a new big board in the Draft section, it's not really related to the Patriots any more than usual but I thought some of you might want to check it out:

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46198


ROP, read back a bit. We weren't seriously discussing trading Slater (although I would do it in a heartbeat, he's not one of the best ST'ers in the league, ST specialists are a dime a dozen, and I don't ever want to see him on offense or defense).

Anyhoo, it was all part of the not-so-serious discussion of trading Meriweather to the Bengals and the Bengals wanting a 7th rounder in return and since we don't have a 7th we were using Slater to get one in this purely hypothetical and silly discussion.

FlyingElvis
03-10-2011, 03:12 PM
The minister approves of the silly.


http://engineering.curiouscatblog.net/images/ministry-of-silly-walks.jpg

Nalej
03-10-2011, 03:22 PM
I wouldn't miss Slater. He was suppose to be a ballin' KR when he came out and he's done nothing but disappoint.
Kelly Washington was a much beter ST'er. I was actually sad seeing him go.

I can def see us taking a S early now.
I thought it was a possibility before but now with the Merriweather accusations, I think the odds have gone WAY up

Razor
03-10-2011, 03:26 PM
I wouldn't miss Slater. He was suppose to be a ballin' KR when he came out and he's done nothing but disappoint.
Kelly Washington was a much beter ST'er. I was actually sad seeing him go.

I can def see us taking a S early now.
I thought it was a possibility before but now with the Merriweather accusations, I think the odds have gone WAY up

That was my first reaction when I read the news. All of a sudden Rahim Moore looked like an intruiging option at 33, maybe even at 60 if the rumors are true.

Nalej
03-10-2011, 03:29 PM
What rumors exactly?

Razor
03-10-2011, 03:55 PM
What rumors exactly?

That many teams consider Moore a third rounder.

Don Vito
03-10-2011, 04:21 PM
Slater wasn't ever really supposed to be an elite returner, he was just an all-around special teamer coming out. He had some returning abilities but he was known to be an excellent coverage teams guy and he really is.

TNPatsFan
03-10-2011, 04:24 PM
I'm personally a big fan of Deandre McDaniel.

Don Vito
03-10-2011, 04:29 PM
McDaniel isn't really a guy we need. He is more of an in-the-box type and isn't anything special in coverage, which isn't what we need considering what we have with Chung, Sanders, McGowan, and Page. If Meriweather is gone then safety could be a need but I don't think McDaniel is the guy, he has some character issues as well.

TNPatsFan
03-10-2011, 04:51 PM
His character issues are long in the past and I disagree about him being an "in the box" safety.

descendency
03-10-2011, 05:45 PM
I've always said we had 1 too many safeties anyways.

Chung + Sanders are starter quality.

McGowan and that kid we got from Denver (who went on IR) and Sergio Brown... that's 5 safeties, plus a few other P/S players.

nepg
03-10-2011, 06:00 PM
I've always said we had 1 too many safeties anyways.

Chung + Sanders are starter quality.

McGowan and that kid we got from Denver (who went on IR) and Sergio Brown... that's 5 safeties, plus a few other P/S players.

And possibly Butler...

proshoota25
03-10-2011, 06:03 PM
I've always said we had 1 too many safeties anyways.

Chung + Sanders are starter quality.

McGowan and that kid we got from Denver (who went on IR) and Sergio Brown... that's 5 safeties, plus a few other P/S players.

Josh Barrett...... I assume thats whom you are talking about.

J255979-11nine
03-10-2011, 06:18 PM
And possibly Butler...

Haha the only way Butler could perform worse is if we stuck him at safety.

Matthew Jones
03-10-2011, 06:21 PM
His character issues are long in the past and I disagree about him being an "in the box" safety.

Regardless of what McDaniel is or isn't like now, Robert Kraft will probably never let us draft someone who did what he did.

descendency
03-10-2011, 06:57 PM
Haha the only way Butler could perform worse is if we stuck him at safety.

At least we aren't sticking him at DE like we did with Arrington.

J255979-11nine
03-11-2011, 01:49 AM
At least we aren't sticking him at DE like we did with Arrington.

Best 180lb edge rusher in the leaguezzz!

TNPatsFan
03-11-2011, 10:27 AM
Sanders is ok but I think we could do better. One thing to remember is he is going in to the last year of his contract and he's on the expensive side so it's no sure thing he'll be back after this year. I really don't think the Pats will draft a safety this year, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them do if they are looking at it as a future need.

FlyingElvis
03-11-2011, 11:31 AM
Not exactly a stellar S crop this year. With our other needs and the relative lack of top talent, I'd think S can wait and Sanders / McGowan / Page / etc. can play this year if Meri is dumped (or in prison.)

The value is just awesome for our needs with the picks we have right now. Especially w/Mallett / Locker / Ponder as trade bait at 28 & 33.

descendency
03-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Josh Barrett...... I assume thats whom you are talking about.

Yea. I was just tired and I couldn't think of his name.

While Meriweather is probably our second best coverage safety (when he's not "play making"), he definitely isn't irreplacable.

I don't think James Sanders will get a huge pay day that everyone else seems to think.

Razor
03-12-2011, 12:16 PM
I'm seeing more and more about Martez Wilson being looked at as a 3-4 OLB. Do you think he could do that? And if so, would he be on the Patriots' radar? If nothing else he does have the measurables and athleticism that BB looks for.

Matthew Jones
03-12-2011, 12:28 PM
I'm seeing more and more about Martez Wilson being looked at as a 3-4 OLB. Do you think he could do that? And if so, would he be on the Patriots' radar? If nothing else he does have the measurables and athleticism that BB looks for.

Martez is intriguing from a versatility perspective, and like you said he has the prerequisite size and athleticism. He can play defensive end in the sub package, and outside or inside in the base defense. In college, it seemed like he was mostly rushing the passer, whether lined up outside or rushing from the inside on a stunt/twist. Concerns would be possibly intelligence (look up an interview with him on Youtube and see for yourself), ability to diagnose plays quickly, and I read somewhere that he's not flexible. In New England, I think we'd give him the Adalius Thomas role, but if he can't turn and run with tight ends, or we don't think he's smart enough to handle his responsibilities, we'd pass. I think there are safer picks to make but he would certainly be interesting.

Razor
03-12-2011, 12:58 PM
The only interview I've heard from him was the one on Scott's podcast and I wasn't impressed at all. So yeah, intelligence could be an issue. I was pretty impressed with his pass rushing skills when I saw him, but I wasn't sure if he could play 3-4 OLB. With some coaching he could be good, but I also have questions about toughness. Toughness and intelligence is important to me. I don't think he will have problems with covering TEs though... I need to see more of him, I just don't have the time which is why I asked. Always nice to get some input from fellow Pats fans.

ryno626
03-13-2011, 12:48 PM
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2011/03/patriots-nfl-mock-draft-6-0.html#more-8454

How would this make you guys feel if the draft played out like this?

Wilkerson, Carimi, Martez Wilson, Clint Boling, Shane Vereen and Ricky Stanzi for the first 3 rounds. Sounds like we get two quality starters on the OL and one at DE. Not sure if we need to go backup QB that early and don't know a lot about Wilson...

Nalej
03-13-2011, 01:47 PM
I guess I woudn't be too upset.
I don't like Wilson in our system and think Vereen and Stanzi are too early for us though
If we swapped out Wilson for a different OLB, meaning OL/DL/OLB are all adressed, I wouldn't mind grabbing a QB and a QB but I'm content with Hoyer honestly

Matthew Jones
03-13-2011, 03:15 PM
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2011/03/patriots-nfl-mock-draft-6-0.html#more-8454

How would this make you guys feel if the draft played out like this?

Wilkerson, Carimi, Martez Wilson, Clint Boling, Shane Vereen and Ricky Stanzi for the first 3 rounds. Sounds like we get two quality starters on the OL and one at DE. Not sure if we need to go backup QB that early and don't know a lot about Wilson...

I like Wilkerson, Boling, and Vereen. I don't see Carimi as a great fit - heavy legged waist bender. Martez seems to fit but intelligence may cause us to pass on him. Going with Stanzi that early would be a wasted pick on someone who will (hopefully) never see the field.

Matthew Jones
03-13-2011, 03:20 PM
What do you guys think of this list of guys who don't fit in New England?

RB Daniel Thomas, Kansas St. - character/intelligence issues, runs way too high, horrible ball security

RB Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech* - sophomore, durability/toughness, lack of production

WR Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh* - threw coaches/teammates under the bus, arrested, takes plays off, lack of passion?

OT Marcus Cannon, Texas Christian - no mean streak, questions of whether he loves the game or not, where does he fit?

OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin - lack of flexibility, poor kick slide, more of an inline blocker (Pats use ZBS)

DE Adrian Clayborn, Iowa - lack of ideal size for two-gap end, arrested, not athletic enough to play OLB

LB Brooks Reed, Arizona - workout warrior who was outproduced in college by a late round prospect, can't shed blocks, questionable instincts

CB Jimmy Smith, Colorado - does he want to be a celebrity or football player, character issues, Patriots never draft tall CBs

TNPatsFan
03-13-2011, 03:57 PM
What do you guys think of this list of guys who don't fit in New England?

RB Daniel Thomas, Kansas St. - character/intelligence issues, runs way too high, horrible ball security. His official H/W revealed he is not as big as everyone thought. A former QB, not that experienced at the position. Despite his size, not a pounder that can convert consistently on short yardage. I'd probably only take him in the mid rounds.

RB Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech* - sophomore, durability/toughness, lack of production. I really like(d) Williams and had him high on my board until I heard/read him admit he stinks at pass protection.

WR Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh* - threw coaches/teammates under the bus, arrested, takes plays off, lack of passion? One year of production, then didn't look very good at all this past season. Not really interested in this guy much at all.

OT Marcus Cannon, Texas Christian - no mean streak, questions of whether he loves the game or not, where does he fit? I don't know a lot about him, but coming in to the league at 350 plus, I would be very wary. Not sure what position he would play.

OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin - lack of flexibility, poor kick slide, more of an inline blocker (Pats use ZBS). I'm a big fan of Carimi and I think he's the best OL in this draft. I think he could start at RT from day one. He could even play guard, though at 6'7 that's probably not ideally what you want on the interior. I concede there are better fits for the Pats scheme-wise, but I would be happy if they got Carimi.

DE Adrian Clayborn, Iowa - lack of ideal size for two-gap end, arrested, not athletic enough to play OLB. I'm a bigger fan of Clayborn than most, but his size is a big concern and the question is he flexibile enough to move around on the line? Or is he strictly a RDE? Or can he play DE in the 3-4 base at all? I wouldn't hate the pick if they took him, but I don't think they will.

LB Brooks Reed, Arizona - workout warrior who was outproduced in college by a late round prospect, can't shed blocks, questionable instincts. I like Reed but I think he is getting way overrated lately. He's a third round pick in my opinion.

CB Jimmy Smith, Colorado - does he want to be a celebrity or football player, character issues, Patriots never draft tall CBs. Don't know a lot about him. I don't personally like these attitude guys that think they are the best before they have even set foot on the field. And it has been pointed out in the past that the Pats really dont prefer tall corners because they don't believe they can move well enough in their defense.


Some interesting players there. My thoughts in blue.

RWills
03-14-2011, 07:50 AM
I know a lot of you are high on Marcus Gilbert as well, I also don't think he fits the Pats, soft body says to me he will be overweight in the NFL, huge question about his intelligence, if there is one thing that all the lineman have in-common is that they have high IQ, and good feet and hands.

nepg
03-14-2011, 09:31 AM
Gilbert might be an OG for the Pats.

descendency
03-14-2011, 11:44 AM
What do you guys think of this list of guys who don't fit in New England?

RB Daniel Thomas, Kansas St. - character/intelligence issues, runs way too high, horrible ball security
Not worth the pick, in my opinion. Runs like a QB. pass.


RB Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech* - sophomore, durability/toughness, lack of production
I know lots will disagree, but I have his team-mate as the better player. Darren Evans > Ryan Williams and Evans is going from 4-FA. So, yea.

WR Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh* - threw coaches/teammates under the bus, arrested, takes plays off, lack of passion?
This guy could be TO in all respects. He has a huge chip on his shoulder with elite talent. The real problem I have is that he may become a locker-room cancer. I can completely understand calling out his team-mates. His QB is ****. His coach is incompetent. He's a better player than what he showed at Pitt, but I don't know if it's worth the risk.

OT Marcus Cannon, Texas Christian - no mean streak, questions of whether he loves the game or not, where does he fit?
He's a guard. His weight isn't problem, because he carries it well. He's even slimmed down a touch since weigh in a 350 pounds at the combine. He just needs a mean streak - he could be special.

OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin - lack of flexibility, poor kick slide, more of an inline blocker (Pats use ZBS)
Guard, maybe a RT. I see a RT at best. If Belichick feels he can play guard and tackle, then I could see him being pick #28, but I don't see a LT at all.

DE Adrian Clayborn, Iowa - lack of ideal size for two-gap end, arrested, not athletic enough to play OLB
Pass.

LB Brooks Reed, Arizona - workout warrior who was outproduced in college by a late round prospect, can't shed blocks, questionable instincts
I think he can be coached quite a bit. He's worth a look. I hate Texas (soft bitches) players but Sam Acho could be the guy everyone is overlooking in this draft. I'd rather have Acho at 60 than Brooks Reed at 28.

CB Jimmy Smith, Colorado - does he want to be a celebrity or football player, character issues, Patriots never draft tall CBs
Jimmy Smith is probably not a good fit for the scheme, but I can see a special player. His head is screwed up though. Avoid.

Gilbert might be an OG for the Pats.

I think he's a player who could play RT which basically means you can play LG and RG. In this day, a RT is a LG with better athleticism and feet.

proshoota25
03-15-2011, 03:04 PM
anyone have the latest on the who the patriots have visited with or worked out?

- apparently BB was the only NFL head coach who went to the Florida pro day. hahah maddd funny.

Jvig43
03-15-2011, 05:42 PM
anyone have the latest on the who the patriots have visited with or worked out?

- apparently BB was the only NFL head coach who went to the Florida pro day. hahah maddd funny.

Not surprising however haha.

ryno626
03-15-2011, 05:47 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110315_source_patriots_worked_out_maryland_wr_to rrey_smith


Torrey Smith worked out for us or we worked him out however that works

proshoota25
03-16-2011, 03:00 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110315_source_patriots_worked_out_maryland_wr_to rrey_smith


Torrey Smith worked out for us or we worked him out however that works

gulp. ill be extremely angry if we draft him in the first round. i prolly wouldnt watch the rest of the draft if that happened. Please Bill, stick with the trenches and we will be all set!

TNPatsFan
03-16-2011, 06:40 AM
It's a nice interview. Seems like a decent kid. I am divided on Torrey. If the Pats draft a WR high I'd rather they just trade up for Julio. Either that or take Hankerson. But I don't think they need to do that, and honestly I doubt they will take a WR very early in this draft. As for Smith himself, he's got good play making ability, but he catches with his body so much, that's a concern. Really don't like that.

TNPatsFan
03-16-2011, 06:45 AM
Pats pulpit has a list of who they worked out. Not sure how accurate it is or how often they update it.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2011/3/15/2053404/patriots-private-workout-list-updated-3-15

And you can add Pouncey to the list as they worked him out yesterday, not surprisingly.

FlyingElvis
03-16-2011, 08:57 AM
I'm not too worried about Torrey Smith in the first. He's likely to be a second round target - though I'd rather pass on him for Hankerson, same as TN.

A shifty, fast, middle-crossing WR with KR skills . . . just doesn't seem like a big need for us, even if he has the "home-run" ability every team covets.

FlyingElvis
03-16-2011, 01:43 PM
While we're on the topic of WRs . . .


Can somebody explain to me why Hankerson's stock isn't rising significantly? He's still projected / mocked as a late second round WR (at best) despite seemingly doing everything right.

He dominated the Senior Bowl. Then he proceeded to blow up the combine, especially with his 40 that should silence the "doesn't have deep speed" criticism.

I don't understand how he doesn't get at least a 20 pick bump up the boards based on those results. It kind of reminds me of Graham last year - he was projected as a late first value b/c of various questions. He cleared up those questions and was drafted much higher than expected. I see Hankerson as a kid who jumps to the early second based on attributes / results / production. His senior & team captain status make me think he'll be on BBs radar in round 2.

proshoota25
03-16-2011, 02:40 PM
While we're on the topic of WRs . . .


Can somebody explain to me why Hankerson's stock isn't rising significantly? He's still projected / mocked as a late second round WR (at best) despite seemingly doing everything right.

He dominated the Senior Bowl. Then he proceeded to blow up the combine, especially with his 40 that should silence the "doesn't have deep speed" criticism.

I don't understand how he doesn't get at least a 20 pick bump up the boards based on those results. It kind of reminds me of Graham last year - he was projected as a late first value b/c of various questions. He cleared up those questions and was drafted much higher than expected. I see Hankerson as a kid who jumps to the early second based on attributes / results / production. His senior & team captain status make me think he'll be on BBs radar in round 2.

i really like him too and am not quite sure why people are still mocking him there. i see him being an early 2nd round pick. i guess some people dont "love" his hands.... apparently he had a few drops during the senior bowl week at practice... i think something like 4 drops at the combine.... that would be my only reasoning. i love the guy tho

FlyingElvis
03-16-2011, 03:00 PM
The depth at WR hurts him, too, I guess. I still don't see him making it past pick 43 - especially with Cincy / Denver / Cleveland / Washington / Minnesota from 35 to 43. He has too many solid attributes with the major knocks being put to rest.

ElectricEye
03-16-2011, 03:43 PM
I really don't think the film justifies Hankerson going in the first round. He had a real strong Senior Bowl showing, but he also showed off his limitations. He drops a lot of balls and has major lapses in concentration. Ran much better than expected, but he doesn't play up to that speed. I really wouldn't mind taking him at the end of the first, but Torrey Smith is a significant upgrade both in terms of hands and talent and if we were going to go WR, I would prefer going in that direction if everything else was created equally.

FlyingElvis
03-16-2011, 03:46 PM
It's so hard to trust Maryland players, though.

ElectricEye
03-16-2011, 03:49 PM
He passes the eyeball test in ways that DHB never did for me(although I loved DHB too, just not his hands). He looks natural catching the ball as opposed to DHB(or Brandon Tate for that matter who some have said he compares to). That's what sets him apart from the other toolsy second tier receivers.

FlyingElvis
03-16-2011, 03:59 PM
He passes the eyeball test in ways that DHB never did for me(although I loved DHB too, just not his hands). He looks natural catching the ball as opposed to DHB(or Brandon Tate for that matter who some have said he compares to). That's what sets him apart from the other toolsy second tier receivers.

It's not just DHB, though. It seems like most Terps come out pretty highly touted and go the route of DHB / Vernon Davis - underachievers.

**********

I think the 33rd pick has too much value to not be traded. Looking at the board in the second shows too many teams needing a QB. It starts with Buffalo @ 34. If the Bills don't take a QB at 3 (which I think they should not do based on QB value) then all the teams below them would look to jump up over them.

34. Buffalo Bills
35. Cincinnati Bengals
38. Arizona Cardinals
39. Tennessee Titans
41. Washington Redskins
43. Minnesota Vikings

San Fran and Jax aren't far behind, either.

ElectricEye
03-16-2011, 04:40 PM
I wouldn't exactly call Vernon Davis an underachiever. He's been the best tight end in the NFL for two years now. As for other Maryland Super Athletes; just ask Ravens fans about Jared Gaither. Played like a top five LT before being pushed out for Michael Oher/disputes with the organization. Not a death sentence by any means, unless you just suck at football like Bruce Campbell.

Matthew Jones
03-16-2011, 04:49 PM
The major knock on Hankerson is focus and hands. He dropped quite a few passes at the combine and combined with his drops in college some teams are going to be a little wary. I would be glad to trade down and take him in the 40s depending on how the board falls though.

Razor
03-16-2011, 05:36 PM
Hank has worked a lot on his hands. Imo he has much better hans than Smith (who has tiny hands iirc). People tend to focus on bad things, which I get, but his hands wasn't really a problem in 2010.

ElectricEye
03-16-2011, 06:18 PM
It was though. Size doesn't really have anything to do with it if you just plain can't concentrate and catch. Braylon Edwards has huge hands if I remember correctly and Wes Welker's are probably well below average. Who do you trust more to pull a ball in? Hankerson improved this year, but it's still a major issue for him.

proshoota25
03-20-2011, 02:29 AM
johnny patrick.... private workout wit the pats

descendency
03-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Size doesn't really have anything to do with it if you just plain can't concentrate and catch.

I agree with what you are saying, but then you have guys like Hakeem Nicks who when he gets his hands on the ball, you can't break it out. He has massive strong hands that would be amazing to have in NE.

proshoota25
03-22-2011, 08:34 PM
patriots have a visit lined up with aldon smith

descendency
03-24-2011, 05:18 PM
Anyone have a feeling about Sam Acho? The more I see him the more I think he belongs in tier 1 instead of tier 2. If he had a better burst, I could see him being a top 15 pick.

TNPatsFan
03-24-2011, 09:00 PM
I do have a feeling that Acho is high on BB's target list and could become a Patriot in round 2. Just seems like the kind of guy BB looks for.

AntoinCD
03-25-2011, 06:12 AM
Anyone have a feeling about Sam Acho? The more I see him the more I think he belongs in tier 1 instead of tier 2. If he had a better burst, I could see him being a top 15 pick.

He is one player who I have been liking more and more as this process goes on. I think he could be the pick even as high as 28 depending on how things go

Don Vito
03-25-2011, 10:20 AM
I like Acho and I definitely think he is a guy we could fall in love with. He is solid against the run, a good pass rusher, and is very intelligent. However I don't really think he is the impact edge rusher we need, I feel like he is in that Cunningham mold of a solid OLB. We need a franchise pass rusher kind of impact player, I like Acho and I could see us drafting him but I don't think he is the ideal pick for what we need.

TNPatsFan
03-25-2011, 10:56 AM
I like Acho and I definitely think he is a guy we could fall in love with. He is solid against the run, a good pass rusher, and is very intelligent. However I don't really think he is the impact edge rusher we need, I feel like he is in that Cunningham mold of a solid OLB. We need a franchise pass rusher kind of impact player, I like Acho and I could see us drafting him but I don't think he is the ideal pick for what we need.

But there's the issue. Is there really anybody in this draft that can be considered an impact edge rusher? I'm not so sure. There are some good OLB candidates but I don't know that any are going to be terrorizing opposing QB's for the next five plus years. I suppose Quinn could become that. I just don't know. I think they may need to just get a solid all around OLB like Acho to go with Cunningham and continue to add other pieces that together help improve the pass rush. I don't know that there is one guy that's going to come in through this draft and make a huge difference.

Don Vito
03-25-2011, 11:07 AM
But there's the issue. Is there really anybody in this draft that can be considered an impact edge rusher? I'm not so sure. There are some good OLB candidates but I don't know that any are going to be terrorizing opposing QB's for the next five plus years. I suppose Quinn could become that. I just don't know. I think they may need to just get a solid all around OLB like Acho to go with Cunningham and continue to add other pieces that together help improve the pass rush. I don't know that there is one guy that's going to come in through this draft and make a huge difference.

I think that there are guys who have potential to be that kind of player, whereas I don't think Acho will be more than a solid player. Robert Quinn, Von Miller, Ryan Kerrigan, Brooks Reed, Justin Houston, and Aldon Smith are guys who I think have the ability to develop into great edge rushers in a 3-4. Some of those guys also have bust potential, but they have extremely high ceilings and have the physical ability to be great in the NFL. I think you know what you are going to get with Acho, he is a pretty safe pick to be a solid player but we already have players like that. Sheard for Pitt is a guy who will probably be drafted around where Acho will be and he may not be as safe of a pick as Acho, but I think he has a lot more potential as a pass rusher than Acho.

TNPatsFan
03-25-2011, 11:27 AM
That's true. There are a lot of guys with potential, but who could just as easily end up being busts. The question is whether or not BB is willing to take that risk. He hasn't in the past. Maybe this year he will go for it. But even so, most of these guys were good college pass rushers but not really anything special. Personally I love Ryan Kerrigan as I think he is the best pass rusher in the draft. But just being realistic I think he will be a consistent 6 to 8 sack guy who gets you some good qb "pressures". I don't see any Wares or Merrimans in this draft to be honest. And I feel bad for the team that drafts Von Miller in the top 7 thinking he's going to be a sack machine in the NFL.

I'd love to see the Pats take a shot at one of these guys for a change, and there are some I like better than others, but I'm also prepared for BB to go with a safer pick where he knows what he's getting and not bet on potential.

TNPatsFan
03-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Reiss reporting that the Pats did an on campus workout yesterday with Ricky Stanzi. He's a guy I think would be good to bring in as a backup and possible future starter waaaaaayyyy down the road. I just hope they don't take a QB before the 4th round.

TNPatsFan
03-27-2011, 11:02 AM
Still a long way to go before the draft, and still lots of private workouts/visits to be done by the Pats, but so far I am finding it interesting that of all the top players that are being talked about as possible Pats draft picks, the only one that the Pats have had a private workout with so far is Cam Jordan.

Also of interest is they have been working out a number of DL's but they are all either second tier guys or are not generally considered good fits for the Pats. They have worked out Clayborn, Bailey, McClain, and Kenrick Ellis so far.

Nalej
03-27-2011, 08:42 PM
Hmmm... I'd be cool with CJ. Really hoping for Heyward.

nepg
03-28-2011, 04:21 PM
Reiss reporting that the Pats did an on campus workout yesterday with Ricky Stanzi. He's a guy I think would be good to bring in as a backup and possible future starter waaaaaayyyy down the road. I just hope they don't take a QB before the 4th round.
Why? They have too many draft picks, to be quite honest. Their 4th round pick is their 7th pick in the draft... They can draft a QB whenever they want, imo.

Nalej
03-29-2011, 02:48 PM
I'm okay with grabbing a QB only and only we've addressed OLB, DE and OL.
I don't like the gamble of grabbing a QB beforehand and then having our guy, who we thought would fall to our next pick, taken off the board.

DiG
03-30-2011, 09:07 AM
seems to be a lot of talk out there about the pats as one of the favorite teams to trade up in the draft. what guys do you see the pats FO falling for enough to move up into the 9 or 10 range (cowboys and skins seem like teams both looking to slide down)? aj green? julio? jj watt? quinn? aldon smith? other? and what preference?

FlyingElvis
03-30-2011, 10:31 AM
I'd be shocked if they moved up for Smith or Quinn. Both guys have issues that would hurt their value for BB & Co. Quinn w/the suspension and Smith b/c he's only a sophmore. I can't remember the last time BB selected a guy with less than 3 years playing experience. @ 17 or 28 both could be targets if they last, but I just don't see them being the guy BB moves up for.

WR, DE, CB, maybe? I don't feel like the value is so great at DE that we couldn't address it with 17 / 28 /33, tbh, simply b/c there's such good depth. A stud like AJ / Julio or a top CB to pair w/McCourty would be possible. Especially w/Julio coming out of 'bama and that coaching connection.

AntoinCD
03-30-2011, 10:34 AM
I'd be shocked if they moved up for Smith or Quinn. Both guys have issues that would hurt their value for BB & Co. Quinn w/the suspension and Smith b/c he's only a sophmore. I can't remember the last time BB selected a guy with less than 3 years playing experience. @ 17 or 28 both could be targets if they last, but I just don't see them being the guy BB moves up for.

WR, DE, CB, maybe? I don't feel like the value is so great at DE that we couldn't address it with 17 / 28 /33, tbh, simply b/c there's such good depth. A stud like AJ / Julio or a top CB to pair w/McCourty would be possible. Especially w/Julio coming out of 'bama and that coaching connection.

I doubt he moves up for an OLB. I'd say if they move up it will be for one of the WRs or Prince Amukamara(who they have planned in for a visit)

Don Vito
03-30-2011, 10:43 AM
The thought of Amukamara and McCourty opposite each other makes me tingly.

DiG
03-30-2011, 10:43 AM
thanks. thats helpful input.

FlyingElvis
03-30-2011, 11:06 AM
I doubt he moves up for an OLB. I'd say if they move up it will be for one of the WRs or Prince Amukamara(who they have planned in for a visit)

The thought of Amukamara and McCourty opposite each other makes me tingly.

Still my darkhorse position for round 1. I would love to see a move to grab Prince. The big question is where his value really should be set. He's top 10 mock material b/c everybody gives him to Dallas. If Dallas trades out, does a team really need a top 10 to get Prince? It seems like a classic great fit / decent value slot in mocks.

I'd have to think he's top 12 based on the teams around there. 7 teams in a row that could all address a big need by taking Amukamara.

7. San Francisco 49ers
8. Tennessee Titans (Happy w/Verner? - Finny is old)
9. Dallas Cowboys
10. Washington Redskins (Old as dirt @ CB)
11. Houston Texans
12. Minnesota Vikings
13. Detroit Lions

AntoinCD
03-30-2011, 11:14 AM
Still my darkhorse position for round 1. I would love to see a move to grab Prince. The big question is where his value really should be set. He's top 10 mock material b/c everybody gives him to Dallas. If Dallas trades out, does a team really need a top 10 to get Prince? It seems like a classic great fit / decent value slot in mocks.

I'd have to think he's top 12 based on the teams around there. 7 teams in a row that could all address a big need by taking Amukamara.

7. San Francisco 49ers
8. Tennessee Titans (Happy w/Verner? - Finny is old)
9. Dallas Cowboys
10. Washington Redskins (Old as dirt @ CB)
11. Houston Texans
12. Minnesota Vikings
13. Detroit Lions

Realistically if Dallas trade down or pass on him then it will be a case of BPA instead of actual need until Detroit.

Washington gould go QB, WR, DE and OLB instead of CB
Houston do need another CB but with their defensive change they need front 7 players badly
Minnesota also could use a CB, however they also need QB, DE, S OLB etc

If Peterson isn't there for SF they could take Prince but I believe they would go pass rusher or QB at that point.

Tennessee I don't buy. They have Finnegan, Verner and Jason McCourty which is a pretty decent set of CBs.

If Dallas don't trade down with the Pats though I think it would have to be Washington or Minnesota to do the deal. I see Houston taking the best available front 7 player. Both Washington and Minnesota may be looking to move down to get better value on Jake Locker.

DiG
03-30-2011, 11:15 AM
10. Washington Redskins (Old as dirt @ CB)


not sayin skins wont look at cbs this offseason but old as dirt? real reason wed address corner is not age but dependent on whether we plan to resign our FAs.

Dhall - 27
Kevin Barnes - 24
Bryan Westbrook - 26

FAs
Carlos Rogers - 29
Phil Buchanon - 30

FlyingElvis
03-30-2011, 11:16 AM
The QBs really make our 17 / 28 / 33 picks very nice bargaining chips. We could move up to snag a CB / WR and then still end up playing the trade down game through the late 1st & early 2nd. (Surprise, surprise, right? lol)

FlyingElvis
03-30-2011, 11:20 AM
not sayin skins wont look at cbs this offseason but old as dirt? real reason wed address corner is not age but dependent on whether we plan to resign our FAs.

Dhall - 27
Kevin Barnes - 24
Bryan Westbrook - 26

FAs
Carlos Rogers - 29
Phil Buchanon - 30

hhmmm . . . I didn't look at their ages first. I was thinking Hall / Rogers / Buchanon were all over 30.

TNPatsFan
03-30-2011, 01:18 PM
The QBs really make our 17 / 28 / 33 picks very nice bargaining chips. We could move up to snag a CB / WR and then still end up playing the trade down game through the late 1st & early 2nd. (Surprise, surprise, right? lol)

This is just what I've been thinking. They may very well trade up if there is a stud player they want, but there are probably a very select couple of players that they would do it for. I think Prince would be one. And then as you said as long as they keep one of 28 or 33, there are always teams wanting to trade up from the second round into those spots.. especially if they want to beat someone to one of those QB's.

I would love to see the Pats do this, jump up to snag Prince or Julio... maybe Quinn I'm undecided on him.. and then still have enough picks to get their OL's and a DL and OLB.

FlyingElvis
03-30-2011, 01:50 PM
This is definitely the year we are set up to do so for several reasons.

1 - Top CB / WR prospects are likely gone before we can get them at 17
2 - The other positions we need have good depth and talent in round 2 (DE / OLB / OL)
3 - The number of picks we have is just silly (though it looks great w/no CBA for UDFAs)
4 - QB slides: Mallet / Locker / Ponder all will be highly coveted between 17 and 33


Wishful thinking, though. BB & Co. will probably only use the 28th pick and trade a bunch of the others. We'll end up with 6 players, all selected between 28 & 70, with no true "OMG We got HIM!" players involved. lol

Nandoss
03-30-2011, 02:59 PM
The thought of Amukamara and McCourty opposite each other makes me tingly.

What about Bodden?
I don't see any reason for the Patriots to draft a top CB. In fact I think we could benefit from Amukamara and Peterson being taken higher than CBs usually have gone in past drafts.
Personally I'm wishing there's a run on QBs right of the bat. If that happens maybe, just maybe we move up a couple spots to nab an elite pass rusher or WR.

FlyingElvis
03-30-2011, 03:49 PM
Bodden hasn't demonstrated anything more than the ability to be good once every few years. They guy has no consistency in his history except for consistently being injured. There's also no guarantee he comes back to 100% of what he "can" be.

Two stud CBs in their first years in the league . . . ******* dreamy!



Welcome to the fun!

Nandoss
03-30-2011, 04:10 PM
Bodden hasn't demonstrated anything more than the ability to be good once every few years. They guy has no consistency in his history except for consistently being injured. There's also no guarantee he comes back to 100% of what he "can" be.

Two stud CBs in their first years in the league . . . ******* dreamy!



Welcome to the fun!

Well you could also say that McCourty only played one season, granted it was a very impressive one drawing some comparisons with Haynes, but he could have a bad second season. I understand that unlike Bodden, who has shown inconsistency, he has never done anything to make us believe he'll drop in production but he also hasn't shown otherwise. I'm not saying Bodden will be great, but I believe he'll at least be good.
My concern over the lack of pass rush or a play maker WR is greater than that of the quality of our backfield. I'd rather address those positions than go after another "stud" CB. If the opposition QB has all day to throw it doesn't matter who are your CBs, not even Deon Sanders and Darelle Revis can cover everyone that long. Also I'm not completely sold on Amukamara or Peterson as a lock in the NFL.

TNPatsFan
03-30-2011, 04:28 PM
Bodden's never really impressed me that much. He was the best the Pats had in 2009 when they had a bunch of mediocre players back there. He's not terrible, but having two top CB's plus Bodden would be a great thing to have. They need three or more CB's on the field a lot anyway and when the only other choices are Butler and Wilhite, then it makes sense to try to improve back there. Remember Chung out there covering slot receivers last year.

I'd love pass rushing help too, don't get me wrong, but I have said before I don't think there is one single player they can draft in round 1 who is going to make the pass rush go from being the league's worst to being a team strength. It will take improvement at all positions, D-Line, LB, and the secondary.

Oh, and Bodden will turn 30 this year anyway and coming off an injury so who knows how much longer he'll be around and be any good. Draft for the future, not for just this year, that's the way BB does it.

Nandoss
03-30-2011, 04:57 PM
I was really disappointed with Butler, but felt that towards the last games of the season when he got back on the field due to injuries he showed some flashes of at least being a decent nickel or dime. I'm not really worried with Wilhite either, and don't forget Arrington who did an ok job as the second CB. I didn't think the 2009 backfield was that bad, they just got targeted a lot because, again, of our lack of pass rush and due to the fact that the Pats get on the board often and fast and forces most teams to switch to a pass heavy offense.
Chung covering the slot was a big part due to injuries, we were spread too thin last season. We can always improve, but as I said other positions are more urgent than others.

As for the overall improvement needed to have a better pass rush, the way I see it last season there were too many times we got close to a sack or disrupted the pocket but never made the play, be it a sack, deflection or force the QB to get rid of the ball. In my opinion we have a good base that only lacks the talent of an aggressive and agile pass rusher. Since there's no free agency this year until the labor issues get resolved I feel it would be imperative to pursuit an elite pass rusher in this years draft.

And if you are going to draft for the future you might as well do it in later rounds. I'm not opposed going for a CB of the future, but in a draft class that is highly regarded as thin in elite talent I'd like to secure one of the few elite talents there are in a position that I most need improvement right away and save the picks that are aimed at the future in later rounds or even next years draft.

I understand that it's not the Patriots way or BB's MO to trade up to snatch guys, but Bill and the team have surprised us a couple of times. Also we've been trying to find a pass rusher for a long time now, remember Adalius Thomas and Shawn Crable.

nepg
03-30-2011, 05:21 PM
Bodden hasn't demonstrated anything more than the ability to be good once every few years. They guy has no consistency in his history except for consistently being injured. There's also no guarantee he comes back to 100% of what he "can" be.

Two stud CBs in their first years in the league . . . ******* dreamy!



Welcome to the fun!

Bodden's demonstrated the ability to be an amazing fit in this defensive scheme, but hasn't done well outside of it.

I think Butler will be fine. There's no rational evidence... I just feel in my gut that he'll turn it around and be a really good player for the Patriots. I think he lost his confidence in his abilities going into the season and never got it back. I'm thinking he'll use the off-season to either completely recover and develop into the player we thought he was becoming, or he'll be out.

BradysKnee
04-01-2011, 06:03 AM
What do you guys know about Jabaal Sheard haven't seen much on him yet, heard him floated around the Pats.

Don Vito
04-01-2011, 08:22 AM
He has size and athleticism, he had a very good season this year with Romeus out. I think his character problems could scare some teams off but he may go as early as late round 1 if someone really likes him enough. Seems like a good fit for the Jets.

BradysKnee
04-02-2011, 09:25 AM
Anyone else beginning to feel a trade up? I think Dallas or SF could be definite trading partners.

Nalej
04-02-2011, 09:39 AM
I do but I'm not feeling the trade up scenarios for JJ Watt though
IMO, Wilkerson and Heyward are the best fits for us and they can be had at 17 and probably 28
If we do trade up, I like the idea of grabbing J.Jones... that'd be sexy

BradysKnee
04-02-2011, 10:26 AM
I do but I'm not feeling the trade up scenarios for JJ Watt though
IMO, Wilkerson and Heyward are the best fits for us and they can be had at 17 and probably 28
If we do trade up, I like the idea of grabbing J.Jones... that'd be sexy

Yeah, not on the Watt bandwagon myself. I'd see us pulling a trade up for Jones, Amukamara, maybe Quinn.

Trading down from 28 looks possible(likely) now too.

descendency
04-04-2011, 09:36 AM
I think NE is convinced that Pouncey isn't worth 17 but likely won't be around for pick 28. There are other options, but if I were NE, I'd be using pick 17 and 28, and trading out of 33... unless I got a stellar offer for one of the first two.

AntoinCD
04-04-2011, 09:40 AM
I think NE is convinced that Pouncey isn't worth 17 but likely won't be around for pick 28. There are other options, but if I were NE, I'd be using pick 17 and 28, and trading out of 33... unless I got a stellar offer for one of the first two.

If Belichick doesn't think Pouncey is worth 17 but wants him he will likely trade down, maybe with TB looking for an edge rusher and take him at 20. One thing we know is he values players differently than most others but will seldom reach on a player

Nalej
04-04-2011, 12:55 PM
Yea, but at the same time... if he can't trade down...
He's shown he's not afraid to "reach" on some players
So he's convinced on Pouncey but can't trade down, I wouldn't be surprised to see him picked there anyways

TNPatsFan
04-07-2011, 12:42 PM
I'm curious what others think of this question. Is there anyone in this draft that you would be happy if the Pats traded up to get? And if so, what is the highest you would want them to go to get him?

I would go as high as 10 to get Julio, 12 to get Prince, and 15 to get Kerrigan, although I think there's at least a 50-50 chance Kerrigan makes it to 17 and beyond. I actually don't think the Pats will take him even if he's there.

BradysKnee
04-07-2011, 02:25 PM
I'm curious what others think of this question. Is there anyone in this draft that you would be happy if the Pats traded up to get? And if so, what is the highest you would want them to go to get him?

I would go as high as 10 to get Julio, 12 to get Prince, and 15 to get Kerrigan, although I think there's at least a 50-50 chance Kerrigan makes it to 17 and beyond. I actually don't think the Pats will take him even if he's there.

I don't think Kerrigan will be a Patriot regardless. I think Amukamara is who I'd like most of all in Rd 1 though, within reason. A trade up to 9-10 would be most likely.

Nandoss
04-07-2011, 02:54 PM
I'm curious what others think of this question. Is there anyone in this draft that you would be happy if the Pats traded up to get? And if so, what is the highest you would want them to go to get him?

I would go as high as 10 to get Julio, 12 to get Prince, and 15 to get Kerrigan, although I think there's at least a 50-50 chance Kerrigan makes it to 17 and beyond. I actually don't think the Pats will take him even if he's there.

I would trade up to get AJ Green, although I think we would have to get into the top 5 for that and I don't know if BB would be willing to make that trade, I would. I would also love to get either Miller or Quinn, but Quinn seems more like a 43 DE for me. Miller would require a top 5 pick also. Quinn will probably require between 7 and 13. I would make both trades.

I don't think Julio Jones is that great of a prospect and I don't think Kerrigan can play in our 34 scheme.

BradysKnee
04-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Starting to think Mikel Lashoure or Ingram might be picked at 28 or 33. Kinda getting the idea BB might want to get back to the 2004 patriots. Dillon, a lot of 2 TE sets, power running, playaction etc.

I'm warming up to Lashoure over Ingram actually.

FlyingElvis
04-08-2011, 10:19 AM
I'd be happy w/a move up for Amukamara, too. 10-12, depending on who is willing to trade and what the 49ers & Cowboys do @ 7 & 9. I think Houston is still a dark horse team to take him, despite major needs to fill in a new 3-4 system.

I like Julio, but if it ain't Green I'm not as interested in moving up for WR. But that's mostly due to my man-crush on Hankerson.

There is no OLB prospect that I'm convinced is worth a move up and the DE depth is too good to bother.

descendency
04-08-2011, 10:16 PM
The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't be shocked with a (Mike) Pouncey + (Akeem) Ayers first round. Not saying I would love it, but both plug major holes, both are Belichick type players, and neither are represented by Tom Condon.

BradysKnee
04-09-2011, 10:18 AM
The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't be shocked with a (Mike) Pouncey + (Akeem) Ayers first round. Not saying I would love it, but both plug major holes, both are Belichick type players, and neither are represented by Tom Condon.

I actually like Ayers, and would like the pick.
Pouncey actually worries me a bit, but I wouldn't be opposed after a trade down. Anything else is a bit of a reach. I'd rather Watkins.

descendency
04-10-2011, 03:03 AM
*sigh*

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=6453&line=202735&spln=1

The National Football Post's Aaron Wilson reports the Giants, Jets and Patriots are all "extremely high" on UCLA LB Akeem Ayers.
The Giants would probably be reaching if they took Ayers at No. 19, but the Patriots (No. 28) and Jets (No. 30) both represent plausible late first-round fits. However, it's quite possible Ayers' poor measurables from the NFL Combine will push him all the way to day two, even after he posted improved numbers at his Pro Day. Apr. 9 - 5:51

BradysKnee
04-10-2011, 07:50 AM
*sigh*

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=6453&line=202735&spln=1

What's wrong with Ayers?? I think he'd be a great fit. He's great on character/intelligence as well.

TNPatsFan
04-10-2011, 08:13 AM
Where would he play?

BradysKnee
04-10-2011, 10:33 AM
Where would he play?

Ask BB, if that report is true he has a pretty good idea.

TNPatsFan
04-10-2011, 12:37 PM
You said he'd be a great fit. I thought maybe you'd know. Oh well. I personally don't put much weight on "reports" like these. Sounds more like somebody's opinion than anything, especially since they don't give any further info to support the statement.

descendency
04-10-2011, 12:51 PM
Where would he play?

OLB, opposite Cunningham and DE on 3rd down.

BradysKnee
04-10-2011, 04:07 PM
You said he'd be a great fit. I thought maybe you'd know. Oh well. I personally don't put much weight on "reports" like these. Sounds more like somebody's opinion than anything, especially since they don't give any further info to support the statement.

I agree with you. It's probably nothing, and I thought you were asking me rhetorically. He'd of course fit next to Cunningham, probably be much more useful than TBC in passing situations, especially in coverage.

TNPatsFan
04-12-2011, 02:23 PM
Pats are hosting Jake Locker. Ha ha I love it. Now all the other teams are having discussions like this:

"They're not going to draft a QB at 28... are they? I mean, should we try to jump ahead of them? I'm so confused!"

FlyingElvis
04-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Pats are hosting Jake Locker. Ha ha I love it. Now all the other teams are having discussions like this:

"They're not going to draft a QB at 28... are they? I mean, should we try to jump ahead of them? I'm so confused!"

lol . . . exactly. Gotta push the trade value of those picks!

descendency
04-12-2011, 02:40 PM
Pats are hosting Jake Locker. Ha ha I love it. Now all the other teams are having discussions like this:

"They're not going to draft a QB at 28... are they? I mean, should we try to jump ahead of them? I'm so confused!"

Other teams know what NE is doing. I mean, unless he completely wows them it's more likely it's tire kicking.

TNPatsFan
04-12-2011, 02:54 PM
I agree.

The Pats seem to bring in a number of QB's every year for pre-draft visits and we know they aren't taking one, at least not in the first or second round.

I do believe they use a lot of these visits not for this year, but for three or four years from now. They may not draft a QB this year because they don't need one. But in three years maybe they need one and someone they looked at this year in a pre-draft visit is available either as a free agent or via a trade, and they can check their notes and decide whether or not they want to go get him then.

BradysKnee
04-12-2011, 03:43 PM
Pats are hosting Jake Locker. Ha ha I love it. Now all the other teams are having discussions like this:

"They're not going to draft a QB at 28... are they? I mean, should we try to jump ahead of them? I'm so confused!"

Pats are trading Brady to SF for a slew of picks and drafting Locker I think. </sarcasm>

nepg
04-12-2011, 03:49 PM
If they don't think there will be a 2011 season, a QB would be a real option in the first round. I think Locker's demeanor and approach is similar to Brady. He could go a long way to improving his weaknesses by being with the Pats and being around Tom Brady.

Considering how unexcited I am about most of the first round possibilities, I'd be down with drafting Locker.

descendency
04-12-2011, 04:34 PM
The Pats seem to bring in a number of QB's every year for pre-draft visits and we know they aren't taking one, at least not in the first or second round.

Don't be totally shocked if Ricky Stanzi's name is called at pick 60 (or thereabouts... with how the Patriots trade picks)

Nandoss
04-12-2011, 04:38 PM
The way Bill operates he would bring in about every draft eligible player if he could. You never know how the roster will be throughout the season so it never hurts to have as much information on every player available.

nepg
04-12-2011, 10:40 PM
Don't be totally shocked if Ricky Stanzi's name is called at pick 60 (or thereabouts... with how the Patriots trade picks)

Ricky Stanzi or TJ Yates seem like they fit right in to what the Patriots look for when they draft QBs. Experience, size, athleticism, adequate arm... I'd almost be willing to put money on them drafting one of those two.

AntoinCD
04-13-2011, 05:56 AM
Ricky Stanzi or TJ Yates seem like they fit right in to what the Patriots look for when they draft QBs. Experience, size, athleticism, adequate arm... I'd almost be willing to put money on them drafting one of those two.

I wouldnt mind Stanzi at any point from the late 3rd onwards but Im not a fan of Yates, I'd prefer McElroy

FlyingElvis
04-13-2011, 11:34 AM
Nothing would surprise me after round 3. But I still like Hoyer alot. I think he's only signed through the upcoming season and would be a FA in 2012, so QB is definitely an option.

TNPatsFan
04-13-2011, 12:15 PM
I like Stanzi too. As long as they first get themselves an OLB, a couple OL's, an RB, and maybe a CB or DL, then they can go ahead and get him.

Nalej
04-13-2011, 09:24 PM
Seriously. We have holes. Lets fill those first before we start picking up backups

descendency
04-14-2011, 12:50 AM
Seriously. We have holes. Lets fill those first before we start picking up backups

The team went 14-2 and lost a game because key players couldn't make easy plays. I hope the Jets fans don't miss-understand that but the Patriots lost that game because no one could do **** on the outside.

This is a young team with lots of talent. If they have a chance to grab a key part of the team for 10 years, they should take it - backup now or not.

TNPatsFan
04-14-2011, 09:29 AM
But isn't it too early to look for Brady's replacement if he's going to be playing for four or five more years, possibly even longer? You draft his replacement in the second or third round, sign him to a four year contract, and he becomes a free agent before he ever gets a chance to play? What's the point? Sure, you can draft him for "just in case" but I don't know if that's how you want to use early draft picks. If you have a good sense of when Brady will hang them up, and it appears to be within two or three years, then yeah I'd be all for getting his replacement now. But there is absolutely no reason to think he will leave that soon unless it's because of injury.

They seem to have very high hopes and expectations for Hoyer anyway. That's why I say fill the holes you have on the team now first, then worry about the holes you may have four or five years from now.

FlyingElvis
04-14-2011, 09:33 AM
I really like Hoyer. Sign him to a 5 year deal and be done with it. I'm still a bit surprised there wasn't more talk / rumors / interest in him.

BradysKnee
04-14-2011, 12:51 PM
I really like Hoyer. Sign him to a 5 year deal and be done with it. I'm still a bit surprised there wasn't more talk / rumors / interest in him.

Yeah I agree, Hoyer could just be our next starting QB when Brady's gone. I think he has a lot of potential and already plays at a solid level.

Nandoss
04-14-2011, 06:03 PM
Yeah I agree, Hoyer could just be our next starting QB when Brady's gone. I think he has a lot of potential and already plays at a solid level.

Patriots will probably draft a QB rounds 5 or later and probably bring some FAs as soon as that's possible as they have done for the past years. I don't think Hoyer is good enough to be a starter, he's a decent backup but starter, I'm not sure. Signing a backup QB to a long term contract doesn't seem like a good move, you never know what's going to happen and tying yourself up like that isn't necessary.

Nalej
04-14-2011, 11:37 PM
But isn't it too early to look for Brady's replacement if he's going to be playing for four or five more years, possibly even longer? You draft his replacement in the second or third round, sign him to a four year contract, and he becomes a free agent before he ever gets a chance to play? What's the point? Sure, you can draft him for "just in case" but I don't know if that's how you want to use early draft picks. If you have a good sense of when Brady will hang them up, and it appears to be within two or three years, then yeah I'd be all for getting his replacement now. But there is absolutely no reason to think he will leave that soon unless it's because of injury.

They seem to have very high hopes and expectations for Hoyer anyway. That's why I say fill the holes you have on the team now first, then worry about the holes you may have four or five years from now.

Basically. Also, we need a WR, OLB, DE, CB, S, RB, C, RG, RT (LG?)
We overachieved last year. Who thought we were going 14-2???
I sure as hell didn't. Our defense was pretty much the worst in the league.
There's a lot of room for improvement. I rather fill in the holes and go for rings
then drafting a back up QB who's contract will be up before Brady retires

FlyingElvis
04-15-2011, 10:41 AM
Patriots will probably draft a QB rounds 5 or later and probably bring some FAs as soon as that's possible as they have done for the past years. I don't think Hoyer is good enough to be a starter, he's a decent backup but starter, I'm not sure. Signing a backup QB to a long term contract doesn't seem like a good move, you never know what's going to happen and tying yourself up like that isn't necessary.

As an UDFA, I don't imagine it would be a contract that would be a burden. It would be a contract that wouldn't cost much if he were cut. Signing a good backup QB is always a smart move, imo. Of course, I really like what I see from Hoyer.

Nandoss
04-15-2011, 07:13 PM
As an UDFA, I don't imagine it would be a contract that would be a burden. It would be a contract that wouldn't cost much if he were cut. Signing a good backup QB is always a smart move, imo. Of course, I really like what I see from Hoyer.

I'm not saying it will cost us or that we shouldn't sign him. Just that I feel a shorter term would be best as I don't think Hoyer has the ability to become a good starter in the future and there's no reason to sign a backup QB to a 5 year deal when there are several young QBs that have more potential in the draft every year and undrafted also.

BradysKnee
04-16-2011, 07:08 AM
Is this the patriots draft board?
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/1130/draftboard.jpg

Apparently it was setup by PFW, but i am not sure I 100% buy that, especially given the orders shown, its not exactly a generic draft order.

TNPatsFan
04-16-2011, 09:13 AM
I saw that too and don't know what to make of it. Hard to believe they would be careless enough to put that info up for the media to see. Yet the order doesn't look like they just randomly put the names up there. Maybe they put them in a kind of general consensus order but that's not really the specific order that they have them rated. More deception, in other words. Interesting.

BradysKnee
04-16-2011, 09:39 AM
I saw that too and don't know what to make of it. Hard to believe they would be careless enough to put that info up for the media to see. Yet the order doesn't look like they just randomly put the names up there. Maybe they put them in a kind of general consensus order but that's not really the specific order that they have them rated. More deception, in other words. Interesting.

Yeah, I actually think its possible they screwed up, and had PFW say they did it afterwards to try and cover it up. I mean, if you look at it, they have Solder as their top rated tackle, which is not even close to the general consensus, but he could fit the patriots best.

Brown after Cobb is another big ???. JJ Watt under Clayborn (agent?), Watkins top Guard, etc.

Looks a little to specialized IMO, could be nothing though, no way to really know, but it is certainly making me scratch my head.

Another thing though, each of these guys is ranked numerically. 8.854 for Bowers, 8.652 Dareus, 8.519, Quinn etc.

I doubt PFW did that **** up.

TNPatsFan
04-16-2011, 11:19 AM
It is puzzling that's for sure. They are so secretive about everything pre-draft that it's hard to imagine how they would even have their list posted anywhere that someone could see it, let alone voluntarily showing it to the media. I sure hope they didn't screw up because if they did they lost a lot of leverage when they are trying to trade up and down the board.

I agree about some of those rankings. They are kind of typical but then there are the handful of unusual ones like you mentioned. The PFW guys could have just put them up in their own order. Those guys often have some strange ratings on players. They could have just made the numbers up or something. I hope that's all it is.

BradysKnee
04-16-2011, 12:07 PM
It is puzzling that's for sure. They are so secretive about everything pre-draft that it's hard to imagine how they would even have their list posted anywhere that someone could see it, let alone voluntarily showing it to the media. I sure hope they didn't screw up because if they did they lost a lot of leverage when they are trying to trade up and down the board.

I agree about some of those rankings. They are kind of typical but then there are the handful of unusual ones like you mentioned. The PFW guys could have just put them up in their own order. Those guys often have some strange ratings on players. They could have just made the numbers up or something. I hope that's all it is.

Yeah me too, but I don't know, maybe they printed off the player cards and strung them up but what really gets me are those numerical values.

It's clearly out of 10, and some kind of formula for each position to garner overall value.
It looks like a tool to grade a player overall, while in a positional list.

This is a very elusive smoke screen or a grade A **** up.

TNPatsFan
04-16-2011, 12:57 PM
The one thing about the grading numbers on those cards that makes me believe they are not the actual Pats grades is that Caserio distinctly said in the press conference as he was explaining those numbers, that the Pats don't use a four number grade. They only use a two number grade. So instead of 8.782 for AJ Green, their real card would only show 8.7 or 8.8.

BradysKnee
04-16-2011, 03:53 PM
The one thing about the grading numbers on those cards that makes me believe they are not the actual Pats grades is that Caserio distinctly said in the press conference as he was explaining those numbers, that the Pats don't use a four number grade. They only use a two number grade. So instead of 8.782 for AJ Green, their real card would only show 8.7 or 8.8.

True, I just don't know what to make of it. Seems like an extraordinary amount of work for showing up a few seconds in a webcast.

descendency
04-16-2011, 04:19 PM
JJ Watt under Clayborn (agent?)

It's just BS. Watt won't even be on the actual Patriots draft board.

BradysKnee
04-18-2011, 03:49 PM
Read this old BB quote today. (Summer 2003)

"To make the 3-4 work, you need two outside linebackers who can get pressure. What we wanted to do was get quicker, better on the pass rush and a little younger on defense."

PLEASE DO THIS ON DRAFT DAY!

FlyingElvis
04-19-2011, 10:55 AM
That image also looks like the pieces are pasted together in PS or some other photo program.

There's no way the Pats would allow something like that to get out. It's either smoke screen or junk.

I find it difficult to believe Hankerson would't be on their list. My mancrush aside, he really has all the things BB targets when drafting. 4 years of experience & a senior. Team captain. Excellent production. Great work ethic.

descendency
04-19-2011, 11:46 AM
http://www.csnne.com/04/14/11/Workouts-nearly-done-Pats-enter-grading-/landing_patriots.html?blockID=504092&feedID=3352

jmalloy
09-04-2011, 04:03 AM
Hey don vito, are you a mafia member?LOL

HellonEarth84
09-15-2011, 07:13 AM
Solder and Ras-I Dowling both looked like solid starters on Monday.

Ridley and Vereen can have a big impact later in the year. Especially if Woodhead/BJGE get nicked up.

nepg
09-15-2011, 12:18 PM
Yeah, I don't know where people get off saying the Pats don't draft well. Sure, I would have liked to have something other than 2 RBs, but I've been wanting them to draft a bruiser and a slasher in the same draft for years now... When they drafted Maroney, I wanted LenWhale and MoJo in the first two rounds... They finally did it...so I can't complain. Plus, they drafted the position I originally pegged them to draft in the first round. Wasn't the biggest fan of Solder going into the draft, but he looked really effen good.

Babylon
09-15-2011, 01:31 PM
Yeah, I don't know where people get off saying the Pats don't draft well. Sure, I would have liked to have something other than 2 RBs, but I've been wanting them to draft a bruiser and a slasher in the same draft for years now... When they drafted Maroney, I wanted LenWhale and MoJo in the first two rounds... They finally did it...so I can't complain. Plus, they drafted the position I originally pegged them to draft in the first round. Wasn't the biggest fan of Solder going into the draft, but he looked really effen good.

I think the only heat they've taken, from me and a few others, is they passed on Clay Matthews and probably should have consoladated some picks to move up and get a stud receiver. Overrall i have no problem with their drafts.

Nalej
09-22-2011, 08:39 AM
wrong thread