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Razor
04-27-2010, 11:20 AM
So... With the 2010 NFL Draft in the books it's time to look ahead to next years draft, where the Patriots have two selections in each of the first two rounds. SI.com has just published their first 2011 NFL mock draft, which is very premature. But I'm posting it because that Patriots draft is just insane! :D

2011 NFL Mock Draft (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/andrew_perloff/04/27/2011.mock.draft/index.html)

Post your thoughts about the 2011 NFL Draft here.

ElectricEye
04-27-2010, 11:33 AM
Wow. That is a hell of a draft. I prefer Jones to Green, but besides that I would be thrilled. The name of the game next year is WR and DE, but Romeus is a hell of a value. Crick is a guy I have my eye on entering next year. He probably won't tear it up as much without Suh, but with a little bit of weight he's an excellent 3-4 DE canidate. Dareus is also a guy to keep an eye on.

Razor
04-27-2010, 11:41 AM
I liked Crick next to Suh, but I'm always a bit weary of the "sidekick". It's a lot easier looking great when you play next to a player like Suh, so I'm going to look real hard at him next season. I want him to be dominating, although not at Suh's level, if we're going to select him. I like Green over Julio, but any of them will do.

Jvig43
04-27-2010, 05:46 PM
I wouldnt complain with green. Doesn't Jones have durability concerns?

FlyingElvis
04-27-2010, 05:48 PM
So who are the best 5-tech prospects? I'm thinking we'll be in that market.

And probably OLB / pass rushers . . . how about them?

Don Vito
04-27-2010, 08:46 PM
The 5-tech class is going to be amazing next year. I'd say these guys are all top 15 talents, might not get drafted that way but they all have every skill you could look for in a 3-4 end

1. Cameron Heyward Ohio St.
2. Marcel Dareus Bama (Jr.)
3. Adrian Clayborn Iowa
4. Allen Bailey Miami
5. Jarret Crick Nebraska

Then you could throw in Marvin Austin (UNC) and Da'Quan Bowers (Clemson) as possibilities, they have unreal talent but 5-tech might not be there best fits.

DE/OLB has some nice prospects, not too many top guys right now but I'm sure some players will step up.

1. Robert Quinn UNC
2. Greg Romeus Pitt
3. Von Miller TAMU

5-tech and WR will be absolutely loaded next year, which is amazingly convenient.

AntoinCD
04-28-2010, 06:42 AM
Prediction-

They trade Oaklands first(10-15 range) to the low to mid 20s and pick up another 2nd.
With the first of their picks, either their own or the traded pick in the 20s they take a 5 technique. I'm thinking Clayborn.
They then trade the next first into the early second and pick up a 4th.
A RB like Ingram will fall to the second as will one of the WRs(I remember seeing mocks with Benn, Williams and LaFell all in the top 20 last year)
They will take a RB and a WR in the second.
They will also trade another 2nd for a future 1st.

TNPatsFan
04-28-2010, 06:23 PM
I think we'll still be looking for OLB's next year, and definitely RB's and OL's. Possibly WR's depending on how Tate and Price look this year.

Don Vito
04-28-2010, 07:35 PM
I think we'll still be looking for OLB's next year, and definitely RB's and OL's. Possibly WR's depending on how Tate and Price look this year.

Yeah I want a WR, but we have invested some pretty good picks on WR's the last two years in Tate and Price. There are some big talents at WR this year, but I wouldn't put it pass the staff to not take a wideout if they like the young guys. We have a lot of young depth at some positions we all see as needs, but we will see who steps up and that is what the staff is waiting for too. It is so hard to speculate what we will do come draft day, especially 360 days early haha

descendency
04-28-2010, 09:14 PM
Tate and price are not number ones though. They're number twos.

Don Vito
04-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Price actually could be a top receiver, he has a lot of talent. Kind of in the Greg Jennings mold, might not be that good, but could be that type of receiver. We do have a lot of slot types though in Welker, Edelman, Tate, and if you want to say Price you could throw him in there.

I'm hoping we get Julio or Green, I think they are rare receiving prospects. I like Floyd, Baldwin, and Brown a lot too. They all have the ability to be stars in the NFL, but it's hard to speculate on where we go. I'd love to see one of those guys in a Pats uni.

ElectricEye
04-28-2010, 10:42 PM
I'm hoping we get Julio or Green, I think they are rare receiving prospects. I like Floyd, Baldwin, and Brown a lot too. They all have the ability to be stars in the NFL, but it's hard to speculate on where we go. I'd love to see one of those guys in a Pats uni.

Honestly, I would take any of those guys with a top ten pick and not think twice, except maybe Floyd.

Don Vito
04-28-2010, 10:47 PM
Floyd is a great talent but I love Julio the most. Green is right behind him, he is an absolute monster. Julio doesn't have the production that some of the others have, but he is such an amazing all around talent. Bama is a run first offense anyways and Julio has a blanket over him all game, I don't know who I would compare him too. Probably Andre Johnson. I think all of those guys are can't miss prospects, this could be the best receiver class ever.

Razor
04-29-2010, 04:51 AM
The 1996 NFL Draft says hi.

Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Bobby Engram, Terrell Owens, Muhsin Muhammad, Amani Toomer, Jermaine Lewis, and Joe Horn (according to wiki). But still, the receiving class next does look insane.

ElectricEye
04-29-2010, 11:31 AM
The 1996 NFL Draft says hi.

Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Bobby Engram, Terrell Owens, Muhsin Muhammad, Amani Toomer, Jermaine Lewis, and Joe Horn (according to wiki). But still, the receiving class next does look insane.

This class has every bit as much potential to be good. It's absolutely disgusting the amount of talent that's in this class, even outside of the guys mentioned. Miami's receivers, Malcolm Williams, Ronald Johnson...the list goes on. Tons of top end talent, tons of depth.

Don Vito
05-04-2010, 12:52 PM
IF Herzlich comes back and shows he is still a player, I would want him on the Pats so badly. Before his sickness he was literally the perfect LB prospect for us; he has the perfect size, is a good athlete, is a phenomenal pass rusher, makes plays in coverage, is versatile, is tough, and is a sure tackler who can make the big hit too. I am just hoping he gets healthy, but if he suits up again and shows he can get it done I want him on the Pats.

descendency
05-04-2010, 04:17 PM
IF Herzlich comes back and shows he is still a player, I would want him on the Pats so badly. Before his sickness he was literally the perfect LB prospect for us; he has the perfect size, is a good athlete, is a phenomenal pass rusher, makes plays in coverage, is versatile, is tough, and is a sure tackler who can make the big hit too. I am just hoping he gets healthy, but if he suits up again and shows he can get it done I want him on the Pats.

What do you do with Spikes, Mayo, Guyton, and McKenzie? I realize two of those guys are unproven and 1 of them is average at best, but are you really suggesting the Patriots spend a 1st round pick on a position with good depth?

I'm hoping for the same thing next year as this year: OLB, DE, WR, and RB.

Nalej
05-04-2010, 05:22 PM
What do you do with Spikes, Mayo, Guyton, and McKenzie? I realize two of those guys are unproven and 1 of them is average at best, but are you really suggesting the Patriots spend a 1st round pick on a position with good depth?

I'm hoping for the same thing next year as this year: OLB, DE, WR, and RB.

I can't see him being more then a mid-late round pick after missing a season to cancer.
You always have the off-chance of it coming back and the side effects that the treatment causes wouldn't be highly looked upon.

Would he be an ILB only?


It's too early to see what we'll spend our early picks on.
If Pryor and Warren work out at DE, B.Tate, Edelman and Price show life and our OLine wakes up then our options are open.
OLB is still a need, RB will def be a need, a KR/PR would do wonders.
Maybe a FB? A new RT? A stud DE? A big blocking TE to replace Crumpler
I swear- we're not that far off from being great.
Our WRs are going to be the biggest question mark.

RealityCheck
05-04-2010, 05:28 PM
Give me Allen Bailey and Ryan Williams.

Then give me some lotion.

Don Vito
05-04-2010, 05:42 PM
I love Herzy as a Vrable type of guy in our 3-4, he has (had) a ton of versatility and talent. He can get to the QB, he is an outstanding pass rusher. He also is a playmaker in coverage. He might not be the same guy if he comes back and plays, but before he got sick he was the perfect LB prospect for us.

descendency
05-04-2010, 11:02 PM
Would he be an ILB only?
To be honest, I haven't seen a ton of BC games, but I always assume you take a 43 OLB and make him a 34 ILB. Most of them don't have pass rush technique or physical size to consistently be a pass rusher.


It's too early to see what we'll spend our early picks on.
If Pryor and Warren work out at DE, B.Tate, Edelman and Price show life and our OLine wakes up then our options are open.
OLB is still a need, RB will def be a need, a KR/PR would do wonders.
Maybe a FB? A new RT? A stud DE? A big blocking TE to replace Crumpler
I swear- we're not that far off from being great.
Our WRs are going to be the biggest question mark.

I'm not giving up on the DEs yet, but my judgement says that the DE is the biggest need for NE to get younger and better at. Pryor would be a nice young player to emerge though.

I don't think Tate, Edelman, or Price are going to be #1s anytime soon. I'd LOVE to see Johnathan Baldwin in a Patriots uniform. (or AJ Green, Michael Floyd, Julio Jones).

FB? Those are kind of archiac at this point. They are nice, but you can take a TE or an OT to do it. The Patriots need an OT. They don't need a RT specifically, but it's easier to get a RT later than a LT. (Vollmer was my Patriots ROTY... so I'd be happy with either tackles). Stud DE :D! Blocking TE = Rob Gronkowski (who has good hands too).

The WRs will improve as much as Tom Brady improves. He had times where he needed to play better and times where he was way better than his WRs. This group of WRs are good enough. Is he? I hope so. I wouldn't be shocked to see Wes Welker play this year. Randy Moss will be playing for a contract. This could be a MAJOR year for the Patriots.

Don Vito
05-04-2010, 11:07 PM
Before he was sick Herzy looked like he was a perfect 3-4 LB prospect, with Vrable out he was the best possible replacement. He could play outside or inside, that versatility would be huge. We don't really need an inside guy now, but I think he could be a star here on the outside. Besides, we move all of our guys all over the place anyways. If he gets healthy and shows he can still play, he will get drafted. If somehow he plays like he did as a junior, I want him on the Pats.

I know you usually don't see 4-3 OLB's translating to 3-4 OLB, but Herzy looked like he was a perfect 3-4 LB prospect as a junior. I thought he could play anywhere in either a 3-4 or 4-3, I would love to see him come back next season.

Razor
12-16-2010, 03:02 PM
How do you guys like OG David DeCastro from Standford? I just made a mock on another site where our two first rounds went like this:

Ryan Kerrigan
Michael Floyd
David DeCastro
Lee Ziemba

How does this look to you? I think DeCastro is a good fit for us, but I haven't seen enough of him. Does he has a real mean streak? I want offensive linemen who goes for the knockout on every play, but his talent is undeniable. I have this feeling that he'll declare if Luck does.

Don Vito
12-16-2010, 03:21 PM
DeCastro is another nice looking center prospect but I don't see him declaring. If he does he could be in that early second round mix, there are a lot of center prospects that offer some versatility that would be great additions for us...

-Wisniewski, PSU
-O'Dowd, USC
-Pugh, Auburn
-Pouncey (maybe), UF
-DeCastro, Stanford

All of those guys will be taken in the late first to the second probably and I would love to add one.

Razor
12-16-2010, 04:01 PM
I really don't view DeCastro as a center, but I really like his potential as a guard. I didn't even know that he could play center..

Don Vito
12-16-2010, 04:37 PM
I want one of those guys who can move around the interior. I think we keep Mankins and I am comfortable with Connolly now, but we still need a center. Having a guy who offers some versatility would be very nice.

nepg
12-16-2010, 07:07 PM
Any red-bearded center prospects? Pretty much the #1 requirement to be a part of this team as an offensive lineman.

Does this count?

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/52/524690.jpg

ElectricEye
12-16-2010, 07:08 PM
Any red-bearded center prospects? Pretty much the #1 requirement to be a part of this team as an offensive lineman.

Does this count?

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/52/524690.jpg

http://usc.freedomblogging.com/files/2009/05/odowd0505.jpg

Dat O'Dowd

kennyb
12-25-2010, 03:57 PM
How do you guys like OG David DeCastro from Standford? I just made a mock on another site where our two first rounds went like this:

Ryan Kerrigan
Michael Floyd
David DeCastro
Lee Ziemba

How does this look to you? I think DeCastro is a good fit for us, but I haven't seen enough of him. Does he has a real mean streak? I want offensive linemen who goes for the knockout on every play, but his talent is undeniable. I have this feeling that he'll declare if Luck does.

Centers and guards can be had much later. DeCastro, never heard of him as a guard or center. 2nd round pick, don't think so.

Nalej
12-26-2010, 09:41 PM
Positions selected with our first six selections: Hopefully

1-OLB
2-OT
3-DE
4-C
5-S
6-RB

proshoota25
12-26-2010, 11:34 PM
first pick of the second has officially been clinched for the pats :)

ElectricEye
01-08-2011, 11:01 AM
Sleeper alert; Thomas Keiser declared. I really liked him last year with his hand on the ground, but he had an adjustment year playing LB in Stanford's new scheme. He also dealt with some injuries. At 6'5 244 pounds, he has the type of size we look for in a OLB. He actually lost a lot of weight to play LB this year and looked much better close to 260 last year. With a good program, he could get up to that weight by this time next year and hopefully stay in good shape and retain the quickness he gained by playing 15 pounds lighter. Defiantly a buy low type of guy who has familiarity with playing in an NFL style system and program. Smart, high character guy like most Stanford player too. Will likely be available in the 4th or 5th round, but could rise a bit with good offseason workouts and depending on how he looks in drills.


Also; looking at the center class, I'm not sure the guy we're looking for exists this year. The guy we need is pretty rare, actually. Given our emphasis on pulling, getting to the second level, and being light on your feet, I'm not sure there's anyone who can do all that and be a significant upgrade over Koppen in terms of dealing with NT's. Pouncey can do all that and be a strong interior presence, but his issues with snapping are well documented. Wisniewski is inconsistent with his initial punch and looks like he could be bull rushed a bit by bigger guys at the next level. O'Dowd is a guy I really like in terms of strength, but his injury history is something to be concerned about and he has some technical issues of his own.

Razor
01-08-2011, 12:49 PM
Sleeper alert; Thomas Keiser declared. I really liked him last year with his hand on the ground, but he had an adjustment year playing LB in Stanford's new scheme. He also dealt with some injuries. At 6'5 244 pounds, he has the type of size we look for in a OLB. He actually lost a lot of weight to play LB this year and looked much better close to 260 last year. With a good program, he could get up to that weight by this time next year and hopefully stay in good shape and retain the quickness he gained by playing 15 pounds lighter. Defiantly a buy low type of guy who has familiarity with playing in an NFL style system and program. Smart, high character guy like most Stanford player too. Will likely be available in the 4th or 5th round, but could rise a bit with good offseason workouts and depending on how he looks in drills.


Also; looking at the center class, I'm not sure the guy we're looking for exists this year. The guy we need is pretty rare, actually. Given our emphasis on pulling, getting to the second level, and being light on your feet, I'm not sure there's anyone who can do all that and be a significant upgrade over Koppen in terms of dealing with NT's. Pouncey can do all that and be a strong interior presence, but his issues with snapping are well documented. Wisniewski is inconsistent with his initial punch and looks like he could be bull rushed a bit by bigger guys at the next level. O'Dowd is a guy I really like in terms of strength, but his injury history is something to be concerned about and he has some technical issues of his own.

Damn you EE, I just edited my sig! ****, I'm too lazy to do it again. I really like Keiser but I thought he was only a sophomore for some reason. Also, he looks bigger than 244 lbs to me. Maybe I confused with their LB Skov, who also looks like a good prospect. On the matter of the centers, I agree. But I'd still take Wisniewski over Koppen right now. I've been critical of Koppen since the 2008 season, and even though he's played fine this year I want a new center. But I'm ready to let BB break my heart as he does every april.

proshoota25
01-08-2011, 02:44 PM
i honestly think Pouncey will be looked at very hard by the patriots. he has documented versatility, which is HUGE, on our line, and can play G or C.... Pouncey does do everything we ask for, and does it very well. Remember, he has only been playing C for a year, and his bad snapping can be fixed once he starts working with Dante. I think we are all overlooking Pouncey. If you ask me, hes a slam dunk, and its not just that im a Gators fan. Watch the PennSt-Florida game. He was dominant, and he looked like a Pats OL pancaking people and leading the way on screens.

ElectricEye
01-08-2011, 02:52 PM
I like Pouncey a lot....pending his ability to stick at center. He's a guy I could see gathering some late momentum in the post season.

descendency
01-13-2011, 11:55 PM
If Rodney Hudson can put on 15-20 lbs without losing his athleticism, pick 32/33 will be an easy one to predict: Rodney Hudson, OL, Florida State.

Hudson is the most technically sound OL to come out of college in years. If he had Mike Pouncey's body, he'd be a top 15 lock and it wouldn't blow me away to see him in the top 10. Sadly, he's had weight conditioning issues and some minor injury concerns, not to mention his relatively small build (6-2, 285).

He's an ideal ZBS G/C prospect who could easily replace any of our interior OL.

Nalej
01-14-2011, 10:15 AM
Pouncey's shotgun abilities scare me. He needs to step his snapping ability if he wants to start
If Hudson shows up with more weight and still produces well at the combine drills, then I'd like him.
...but so will 31 other teams as well

descendency
01-14-2011, 07:16 PM
As much as Patriots fans won't want to hear it (if he puts on the weight and still performs the drills), he would be the 17th overall pick if he is available.

edit: He fits all of the Patriots requirements for a first round pick if he receives the first round grade (his size may hold him back). Pouncey is a work in progress at snapping the ball and he's not the best pass protector. He will likely receive a late first round grade or a 2nd round one.

ElectricEye
01-14-2011, 07:22 PM
Who? Hudson or Pouncey? Because both of those would be significant reaches.

descendency
01-14-2011, 07:24 PM
Who? Hudson or Pouncey? Because both of those would be significant reaches.

Hudson with some extra weight.

ElectricEye
01-14-2011, 09:59 PM
I think the question to ask every time is if he's truly better than Koppen. We shouldn't be looking for a similar player who is younger, but someone who can handle the large NT's who currently dominate the AFC East. I know Hudson gets fantastic leverage and is strong for his size. Heck, I'm even confident he can get up to 290+ before the draft...but can he stick in the AFC East? I'm not sure. The value at 17 is pretty horrible too.

Razor
01-16-2011, 06:21 PM
I give in. **** OLB, we need a DE. **** my life...

Jvig43
01-16-2011, 06:31 PM
I give in. **** OLB, we need a DE. **** my life...

Yep we need some depth on line, DE is a huge need. I bet Mankins walks still as well after this game which leaves some O-line issues.

diabsoule
01-16-2011, 09:00 PM
What do you guys think of Marcus Cannon in the first?

descendency
01-16-2011, 09:38 PM
What do you guys think of Marcus Cannon in the first?

There are better players at that position for the system.

Babylon
01-16-2011, 10:34 PM
I think when you lose it seems like there are holes all over the place. I personally would like to see upgrades at WR and OLB where guys just arent fooling anyone when you get down to the last handful of teams in the playoffs. It wouldnt kill me to see some combination of these guys out of the draft:

Heyward
Jordan
Watt
Von miller
Herzlich
Baldwin
Odowd
Cannon
Carimi

ElectricEye
01-16-2011, 10:51 PM
What do you guys think of Marcus Cannon in the first?
Doesn't fit as a T or a G in our system.

descendency
01-17-2011, 02:08 AM
Patriots positions that will be open competitions as of now:
WR 1 - The basic reason the Jets did what they did on defense is because the Patriots lack that big play-making threat on offense. It's not just about being able to get deep. It's about being able to get open at will. It's about forcing the coverage into a zone scheme. It's about being able to get a first down just about any time you want. The Patriots lost this when Randy Moss decided to leave (in 2009. . . )

LT - Sebastian Vollmer is a better tackle than Matt Light and it's painfully obvious.

LG - if Mankins doesn't stay

C - Dan Koppen is responsible for a large amount of the pressure that got to Brady.

RG - Dan Connolly is a backup (like I was saying in mid-season after he was playing so badly at LG)

RT - When (hopefully) Vollmer moves to LT, someone will have to take this spot.

DE (Ty Warren will likely win one of them) - Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Brandon Deaderick, and everyone else that played "30" front 34 DE this year do not belong starting on a team this talented. The line was an abortion at times. They failed to control the LOS regularly. They are the bulk of the reason the Patriots run defense isn't one of the top 5 in the NFL. The cut-back lanes they leave open are wide enough for an 18 wheeler to drive through. This is easily one of the top 2 needs on this team.

UT (nickel packages) - This team can't rush the passer for ****. The fact they lead the NFL in interceptions is purely the result of outstanding CB play from McCourty and some good safety play from Chung (albeit some lucky play, but being in the right position helps... cough Meriweather cough).

OLB - This couldn't be more painful obvious how bad this group is. They can't get to the QB. They can't hold the edge. The only thing they do right is backside pressure.

CB 2 - Does anyone think that there is a chance that Leigh Bodden doesn't play in 2011 either? He's an injury concern. Kyle Arrington hasn't exactly blown anyone away either.

CB 3 - I think Devin McCourty is what every Patriots fan thought Darius Butler was going to be. Too bad he's going to be competing for a roster spot next year. With 3 CBs already better than him and my huge lobbying to bring in a 4th and maybe even draft a 5th... can we seriously believe he won't be needing to step his game up big time?

S - Brandon Meriweather's days are numbered. I'm sure he's a nice guy and all, but he probably leads the league in busted coverages and bad angles to the ball carrier.

FB - Sammy Morris is a solid player, but I just don't think his tank has much left. I'm a huge proponent of drafting a guy like Owen Marecic or Stanley Havili.

ElectricEye
01-17-2011, 02:11 AM
So basically we're ****** outside of Brady.

descendency
01-17-2011, 02:19 AM
So basically we're ****** outside of Brady.

This team is loaded with possibilities right now (Because of the 3 top 33 picks) and great "cap space", I think that opens up more opportunities to make changes.

That said, we have played really bad at some of those positions and it's been the games we've lost.

Jvig43
01-17-2011, 02:28 AM
Yeah looking at it that way, thats pretty rough. We did get to 14-2 tho with those players, so while it may look bad to us, we have it alot better then a lot of other teams this year.

descendency
01-17-2011, 02:51 AM
Yeah. I'm not being realistic or holding this team to a normal standard. This is a good team and I am talking about it like I am trying to make it into a franchise-mode Madden team (where you can go 16-0 every year with some creative GM work).

That said, I'm just listing all of the possible positions where competition could be injected or induced.

I mean, safety is highly unlikely to garner a draft pick even if Meriweather is gone. Chung, Sanders, Barrett, Brown, etc are still on the team. So that kind of competition is internal. So would be the Matt Light vs Sebastian Vollmer.

Then there are other spots where it's obvious we just don't have the men on the roster right now like DE.

Sometimes, a player just needs to mature. Maybe that's all that's wrong with Connolly's and Brandon Tate's game right now.

The last type of competition is just not that important, like nickel DB and FB.

I mean, if I had to pick a number of positions that need serious upgrades before fans should get too excited about a deep post-season run, I would say probably 3. (DE, OLB, WR #1) or maybe 4 (G/C) This team was a hugely over-achieving team this year. There is no way it should have won 14 games, especially the way it won some of the games against playoff teams. The defense is average to below average (in terms of production, not including take-aways) and the offense was average to slightly above average (excluding points).

Jvig43
01-17-2011, 03:09 AM
Well this Offense was far above average. We were fifth all time in points scored in a season and averaged 31 points a game. It was just exploitable, and playing a division rival for the third time didn't help. If we had scored on that first drive instead of Brady throwing a pick who knows how the tempo of the game would of changed.

With that said, I'd put O-line help just as big a need as the other three. We always manage to find some gems in the later rounds with O-line help which means we could focus on WR, OLB, DE. Some how don't be surprised if we don't take any of those positions with the first few picks.

RealityCheck
01-17-2011, 11:17 AM
So, now that we pick #28... Who should the targets be?

Don Vito
01-17-2011, 11:19 AM
So, now that we pick #28... Who should the targets be?

Undersized skill position players and defensive guys who might not be incredibly talented, but they offer versatility and special teams potential.

BradysKnee
01-17-2011, 11:51 AM
We can't base our draft on one game. (the last one)

I think offensively, all year we've had some OL problems, we definitely need to invest heavily there.

I think the real need is on D. We need a stud DE, badly. Wilfork having to play DE is not a positive.

OLB is also a huge need. I think Cunningham will blossom, but Ninko, Tully(who was invisible last game; expect him cut), just aren't going to get it done. We can't get by on roleplayers anymore and need some athletes.

3rd-4th round we should take a corner, or a ballhawk safety. Butler should be #4, and we need a nickelback who is reliable.

Safetywise, on 3rd and longs, someone who can cover, cover, cover, i don't care if he hits like a girl. Get chung off and put in a cover guy.

ElectricEye
01-17-2011, 11:55 AM
One thing is for certain; I'm so ******* sick of this "OH MY GOD PATRIOTS O LINE SO GOOD" **** we've heard for years. It's been a problem for a long time and the only reason it hasn't shown up statistically is because Brady's footwork within the pocket is as good as it is.

descendency
01-17-2011, 11:56 AM
So, now that we pick #28... Who should the targets be?

I'm sticking with Rodney Hudson, Mike Pouncey, Stefan Wisniewski, or another potential OL.

Muhammad Wilkerson could be a surprise name.

Jvig43
01-17-2011, 11:59 AM
Well some of the sacks were on Brady towards the end, after he had a ton of time in the pocket. That can be attributed to early sacks that shook Brady up in the first half, which was the O-lines problem. Don't expect to keep Mankins, I think he walks.

Don Vito
01-17-2011, 12:01 PM
Can we discuss how much Darius Butler sucks? I feel like 90% of completions against us are on him and I don't know if I've ever seen him even break up a pass.

Jvig43
01-17-2011, 12:09 PM
Can we discuss how much Darius Butler sucks? I feel like 90% of completions against us are on him and I don't know if I've ever seen him even break up a pass.

Thaaaaaank you. I was literally just screaming at the tv to take Butler out of the game. I still don't understand how people were defending him on here. He either lets up the big play, or gets a huge PI call. He's my most hated player on this team besides Banta Cain.

ElectricEye
01-17-2011, 12:31 PM
I have no idea why any of us here carry a candle for him still. Butler is dog **** tier bad.

BradysKnee
01-17-2011, 03:18 PM
Won't see me doing it. Butler is dead to me lol.

I think we need to understand this was by all respects a building year, we just had a lot of luck and played well for times, but the inexperience showed in the big game.

ElectricEye
01-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Cut him in the off season. I wouldn't say it's that bad unless it was, but it is. He's wasting a roster spot at this point.

Nalej
01-17-2011, 04:25 PM
I'm obviously in the minority here but I wouldn't cut him just yet.
If Wilhite is still on the roster, then I can see us trying to develop Buter some more.

Anyways... I really think BB should look at the possibility of moving up and grabbing the elite OLB pass rusher in this draft; Robert Quinn.
Our D makes mediocre QBs look amazing due to the amount of time we give them to throw the ball.
This isn't bend but don't break... it's basically playing prevent all game long.
It's disgusting and I'm sick of it...

sportslover
01-17-2011, 04:57 PM
Going to start posting much more this offseason, instead of just reading.

But too me, I think the Pats will finally have to address the OLB position this year. To me, Cunningham can develop, and Ninkovich is a solid situational guy but we lack a stud pass rusher who can strike fear in an opposing QB.

Next we need a 3-4 DE who can start opposite Warren and keep Wilfork at the Nose. I love our defensive line rotation, guys like Wright, Brace, Deaderick but they aren't starters at this point, if we can get a stud anchor like a JJ Watt (in love with this kids game), I think we are set for a while along the DLine.

We also need some help on offense, along the OLine (OT, OG/C), WR.
And another CB wouldn't be awful, but not a top priority with upgrades to the front seven as they held their own this year with a suspect front seven and without Bodden, we should get good in this respect.

Overall some targets I like alot for this team.

JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Cameron Jordan, DE, California
Marcell Dareus, DE, Alabama
Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
Robert Quinn, OLB, North Carolina
Justin Houston, OLB, Georgia
Jeremy Beal, OLB, Oklahoma
Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
Jon Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh
Anthony Castanzo, OT, Boston College
Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida
Rodney Hudson, OG, Florida St.
Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL)
Aaron Williams, CB, Texas
Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado

BB will have a lot of choices and should make the right ones, like he knows how too. I can see Offensive Line as more of a target in Round 2, along with WR as I feel the top ones will be long gone. I think 3-4 DE, and OLB will be his top targets in the 1st, if we got Robert Quinn and JJ Watt, I'd be extatic.

descendency
01-17-2011, 05:02 PM
Can we discuss how much Darius Butler sucks? I feel like 90% of completions against us are on him and I don't know if I've ever seen him even break up a pass.

Butler would be a lot better DB if he had some pass rush.

He's bad, but our DBs almost always have to cover far too long. This team NEEDS that game breaker pass rusher to help unclog the rushing lanes.

ElectricEye
01-17-2011, 05:04 PM
I don't know...I've sort of nulled myself to the fact that we put more emphasis on disguising things and forcing quarterbacks to make mistakes than putting up big time sack numbers...

That's what we try to do. But is that right? I'm not really sure.

descendency
01-17-2011, 05:29 PM
I don't know...I've sort of nulled myself to the fact that we put more emphasis on disguising things and forcing quarterbacks to make mistakes than putting up big time sack numbers...

QBs don't make mistakes often when they are not pressured. One great rusher helps improve the rush accross the board because teams have to account for him. Clay Matthews, for example, is largely responsible for the pressure up the middle.

ElectricEye
01-17-2011, 05:37 PM
I agree with that. I'm just not sure the coaching staff does.

Nalej
01-17-2011, 05:43 PM
*drools* at thought of a C.Matthews on our team *exhales*

AntoinCD
01-18-2011, 02:37 AM
I still can't be sure where exactly our biggest need is on defense. I think interior offensive line is definitely the biggest need on offense.

Generally our defensive line holds up well against the run but suffers in pass rushing. But when you think that the three best pass rushing defensive ends either missed the entire season or at least the end of it then it goes a way to explaining it. Kyle Love looks like a capable back up at NT. Deaderick looks ok at backup DE but neither should be counted on playing long spells. With Warren, Wright and Pryor all coming back I would contemplate leaving DE until 28 or 33 and going OLB at 17(or higher).

Cunningham has his one or two plays a game where he gets close to the QB. I love Ninkovich's motor on every play but he does have the talent to be a top tier guy and TBC sucks. I don't care if it's Quinn they trade up for, or Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan or Justin Houston, or hell even Von Miller at this point. We simply need a pass rusher

AntoinCD
01-18-2011, 02:39 AM
Butler would be a lot better DB if he had some pass rush.

He's bad, but our DBs almost always have to cover far too long. This team NEEDS that game breaker pass rusher to help unclog the rushing lanes.

This is especially true for the big completion to Edwards. Butler had him pretty well covered but any decent WR if given enough time should get open against man coverage.

Nalej
01-18-2011, 09:44 AM
This is especially true for the big completion to Edwards. Butler had him pretty well covered but any decent WR if given enough time should get open against man coverage.

This. Give us a good pass rush and our CBs ratings'll go up 10 overall points in Madden

ElectricEye
01-18-2011, 11:53 AM
Eh. Butler has poor body control and allows way to much separation even when there's an average amount of time. He's fast and pretty good when he doesn't have to flip his hips and go in different directions. But there's very little excuse for getting smoked as often as he does. I love what Arrington brings to the table as a nickelback and really could be the guy we've been looking for at that position, but it speaks volumes about Butler that we're more comfortable with him covering the outside receivers.

FlyingElvis
01-18-2011, 01:39 PM
We need pressure. I think we need the DE & OLB as the top two priorities. I like what I've seen from Cunningham and think he'll develop well. But even if he becomes a solid pass rush guy another rusher as a bookend would be sick. DE is clearly a need, too. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but Wilfork at DE should scream "ROSTER DEFICIENCY!!!11++1!!" to anyone watching.

ElectricEye
01-18-2011, 02:03 PM
I really am not sure why the coaching staff has been stuck in pass rusher by committee for so long.

descendency
01-18-2011, 02:18 PM
I really am not sure why the coaching staff has been stuck in pass rusher by committee for so long.

Because the DE to OLB transition is risky so they refuse to draft an elite one. Instead they'd rather take a guy with a more sure fire chance to produce at his position than take a player really high and change his position.

Now we are lacking in pass rushers of all kinds really. (UT, DE, and OLB)

sportslover
01-18-2011, 02:18 PM
BB is a great coach, so obviously he believed he had something in place that would work, and he has for a few seasons now and it hasn't worked out. Hopefully he gets another guy like Cunningham who can set the edge and rush, and we will be set at LB for a while.

descendency
01-18-2011, 02:22 PM
Generally our defensive line holds up well against the run but suffers in pass rushing.

Umm, about half of the time, they do a good job of taking on blockers and allowing linebackers to make plays. The other half they tend to fail their blocker absorbing requirements and the blockers get to the next level or they use the lineman to trap the LB inside and a huge cutback lane is created.

This DL needs to seriously improve. We were terrible at holding the edge against the Jets and it wasn't like that was a new problem. The people responsible for holding the edge in that game deserve an F- though.

descendency
01-18-2011, 10:24 PM
1. Tyron Smith, OT, USC
1. Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
2. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
2. Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
3. Dontay Moch, LB, Nevada
3. Rashad Carmichael, CB, Virginia Tech
4. Stanley Havili, FB, USC
5. Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
6. Darren Evans, RB, Virginia Tech

AntoinCD
01-19-2011, 02:49 AM
1. Tyron Smith, OT, USC
1. Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
2. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
2. Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
3. Dontay Moch, LB, Nevada
3. Rashad Carmichael, CB, Virginia Tech
4. Stanley Havili, FB, USC
5. Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
6. Darren Evans, RB, Virginia Tech

Few things about this mock.

Firstly Im not sure they need to spend a 5th rounder to compete with Hoyer. He has shown well in limited chances and while he's not the QB of the future I don't think it's time to go and get one yet.

Secondly, if we take Smith and Hudson we would probably have the smallest offensive line in the NFL. An OT and an OG weighing a hair over 280lbs?? I'd rather pass on both personally.

Heyward in the second is a steal and I like Hankerson.

Carmichael I really like and I think he is very similar to Devin McCourty, only not as good.

We don't use the FB that often in the offense and it would take away snaps from when Hernandez lines up there so Im not a big fan of Havili. Evans is a solid pick.

Dontay Moch is the wildcard here. He is extremely raw and maybe wont be able to hold the edge, but he could be a monster with some coaching.

Overall I wouldn't be happy with the mock but the 2nd and 3rd round would make it at least average.

sportslover
01-19-2011, 06:10 AM
I highly doubt that BB goes OT/OG in round 1 with BOTH picks, much less one. He has proven that he may go OL late in round 1, but mostly round 2 is where he finds his OT (Vollmer, Light), Mankins with late round 1.

I really think this year it's ideal that he AT LEAST hits on a 3-4 DE or OLB with 1 of the Round One picks and hopefully both of them. THat way he can get that out of the picture for the rset of the draft. Once that is out of the picture.

You have CB, WR, OT, OG -- that can all realisitcally be filled in the 2nd/3rd round. Maybe a RB in the 4th, and then depth and ST guys after that.

I really hope Hankerson or Baldwin turn up in a Patriots uni, to help stretch the field and open up the field for the TE's and Welker. Or if BB thinks Price is that guy then I am also fine with him stretching the field.

I also think we need OT/OG -- not quite sure when and who. BUt I think pick 60 will be an OT probably. With maybe a 3rd/4th on a OG. But I don't think we need 2 high OL yet. If we can get a good rookie and go Vollmer - Mankins - Koppen - Neal - ROookie -- for one more year assuming that Mankins resigns and Neal doesn't retire, I think we are fine improving our WR.

At Defense, in later rounds I'd LOVE a pass rush speciailist like DOntay Moch, the guy is just a monster, whO I am not sure if he can play techniqually very well, but has sick speed for a LB, and would be great in sub packages, but I wouldn't like him at all as the only OLB we get because he isn't an everydown LB or even a 2 down LB, and he is way too small for BB"s scheme anyhow.

New Mock at the moment:

#17 -- DE JJ Watt, Wisconsin
#28 -- OLB Justin Houston, Georgia
#33 -- WR Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh
#60 -- OT Danny Watkins, Baylor
#74 -- CB Curtis Brown, Texas
#92 -- RB Bilal Powell, Louisville (Kid really impresses me every game I watch)
4th -- DE, Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh
5th -- OG Zach Hurd, Connecticut
6th -- QB Ricki Stanzi, Iowa

That would be a pretty solid draft hitting on all major needs DE, OLB, CB, RB, WR, OG/OT, adding depth to DLine, and giving Hoyer some healthy competition with a late pick. Overall Hurd at OG may not pan out but at least you get a body in to compete and next year you can use a higher pick on an OG when you really need one. I really like the 2 5 techs added with Romeus sliding on some boards. I am really high on Powell from Lousiville, and the rest of the picks are self explanatory.

Nalej
01-19-2011, 06:28 AM
1. Tyron Smith, OT, USC
1. Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
2. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
2. Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
3. Dontay Moch, LB, Nevada
3. Rashad Carmichael, CB, Virginia Tech
4. Stanley Havili, FB, USC
5. Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
6. Darren Evans, RB, Virginia Tech

What I don't like about this mock is having 'Moch' as our answer to our OLB problems.
I love him as a prospect but he's a project and will take some time before he'd see the field.

Replace Smith OT with Kerrigan OLB and Carmichael with an OT and I'd like this mock a billion times more
A big fan of drafting Havili...

descendency
01-19-2011, 08:01 AM
What I don't like about this mock is having 'Moch' as our answer to our OLB problems.
I love him as a prospect but he's a project and will take some time before he'd see the field.

Replace Smith OT with Kerrigan OLB and Carmichael with an OT and I'd like this mock a billion times more
A big fan of drafting Havili...

The core problem I think the Patriots have with drafting an OLB is that they want a guy with DE build but linebacker skills. He has to be a 3 down player and be effective in all 3 downs. The kind of guy they are looking for is Robert Quinn more-so than anyone else. I don't know that this team will invest a first round pick on an OLB.

That leaves me with a few DEs or OTs. I chose Smith over the others because I think he has the most upside. A 290 LB OT isn't uncommon. While I wouldn't put him at LT right away necessarily, I could see him manning the left side instead of the right (Vollmer is slightly bigger and Smith could put on another 20-30 LBs with his fame. Plus the guy is 290 lbs already)

Rodney Hudson and Cameron Heyward could be swapped. He's probably more of a center than a guard, but he has elite technique. In terms of prospects, he's a few pounds and maybe an inch here and there away from being the best center prospect of this decade.

I think Hankerson speaks for himself.

Carmichael fills an obvious void in the nickel coverage packages and gives us some injury resistance.

Moch is to try to get another pass rusher. It's later that I'd like, but I think solidifying the other positions gives better value. I just don't love the DE/OLB given the Patriots draft history.

The Pats don't use a FB, because they don't have one. They use Connolly and Sammy Morris and occassionally a TE. They could do a lot more schematically with a true fullback, which I do think the offense could use.

I'm always about some competition at the backup QB spot.

And Darren Evans is my personal favorite running back after round 5. I think with how others see him, he could go undrafted. If that's the case, we need to get him in camp. He's not going to blow you away in the open field, but the rest of his game is rock solid. (He's never fumbled. . .)

AntoinCD
01-19-2011, 08:05 AM
The core problem I think the Patriots have with drafting an OLB is that they want a guy with DE build but linebacker skills. He has to be a 3 down player and be effective in all 3 downs. The kind of guy they are looking for is Robert Quinn more-so than anyone else. I don't know that this team will invest a first round pick on an OLB.

That leaves me with a few DEs or OTs. I chose Smith over the others because I think he has the most upside. A 290 LB OT isn't uncommon. While I wouldn't put him at LT right away necessarily, I could see him manning the left side instead of the right (Vollmer is slightly bigger and Smith could put on another 20-30 LBs with his fame. Plus the guy is 290 lbs already)

Rodney Hudson and Cameron Heyward could be swapped. He's probably more of a center than a guard, but he has elite technique. In terms of prospects, he's a few pounds and maybe an inch here and there away from being the best center prospect of this decade.

I think Hankerson speaks for himself.

Carmichael fills an obvious void in the nickel coverage packages and gives us some injury resistance.
Moch is to try to get another pass rusher. It's later that I'd like, but I think solidifying the other positions gives better value. I just don't love the DE/OLB given the Patriots draft history.

The Pats don't use a FB, because they don't have one. They use Connolly and Sammy Morris and occassionally a TE. They could do a lot more schematically with a true fullback, which I do think the offense could use.

I'm always about some competition at the backup QB spot.

And Darren Evans is my personal favorite running back after round 5. I think with how others see him, he could go undrafted. If that's the case, we need to get him in camp. He's not going to blow you away in the open field, but the rest of his game is rock solid. (He's never fumbled. . .)

I dont think Carmichael would come in to be the nickel guy. Considering Bodden is coming back I think the team would be more than happy with Arrington and Wilhite in the slot. If they bring in a CB it will be to challenge for a starting role outside IMO.

As for Havili, even when they had Heath Evans they really only used him around the goal line in passing situations. I also don't see him being a conventional FB, more of simply a big slow RB.

Matthew Jones
01-19-2011, 08:36 AM
Here are some guys I see as possible fits in the first two rounds (regardless of whether or not we'd be able to get them):

RB Mark Ingram, Alabama* (1)
RB Mikel LeShoure, Illinois* (2)
RB DeMarco Murray, Oklahoma*
RB Kendell Hunter, Oklahoma St.
RB Shane Vereen, California*

WR A.J. Green, Georgia* (1)
WR Julio Jones, Alabama*
WR Jerrel Jernigan, Troy (2)
WR Randall Cobb, Kentucky*
WR Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL)

OT Nate Solder, Colorado (1)
OT Anthony Castonzo, Boston College
OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin
OT DeMarcus Love, Arkansas (2)
OT Ben Ijalana, Villanova
OT Marcus Gilbert, Florida

OG Rodney Hudson, Florida St. (2)
OG Mike Pouncey, Florida
OG Lee Ziemba, Auburn

C Stefen Wisniewski, Penn St. (1)
C Kristofer O'Dowd, Southern California (2)

DE Marcell Dareus, Alabama* (1)
DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio St.
DE Cameron Jordan, California
DE J.J. Watt, Wisconsin*
DE Muhammad Wilkerson, Temple* (2)
DE Jarvis Jenkins, Clemson

DT Christian Ballard, Iowa (2)

LB Robert Quinn, North Carolina* (1)
LB Da'Quan Bowers, Clemson*
LB Aldon Smith, Missouri*
LB Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue
LB Akeem Ayers, UCLA*
LB Justin Houston, Georgia*
LB Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma (2)
LB Martez Wilson, Illinois*
LB Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh
LB Pernell McPhee, Mississippi St.
LB Sam Acho, Texas

CB Patrick Peterson, Louisiana St.* (1)
CB Prince Amukamara, Nebraska
CB Brandon Harris, Miami (FL)*

FS Rahim Moore, UCLA* (2)
FS Quinton Carter, Oklahoma
FS Ahmad Black, Florida
FS Deunta Williams, North Carolina

AntoinCD
01-19-2011, 08:46 AM
I love Gilbert at OT and I kinda like the idea of Ziemba ot OG but if we go near either in the first two rounds Ill not be happy. Both are more late 3rd type guys at the minute IMO

ElectricEye
01-19-2011, 08:49 AM
I don't think I'm going out on much of a limb when I say there's no way in hell we'll draft Montay Moch. He would be an ILB in our scheme and that's just not worth it. We passed on it with Everette Brown, Jerry Hughes, ect...no way we'll go to a pure speed rusher this time around. I'm not convinced at all about his ability to hold up as a starter in this league either. He's very fast and can get by slow footed college tackles. This much we know. But when he's engaged and taking on blocks he's a non-factor. We've passed on the one trick pony many, many times and we're often right.



LB Robert Quinn, North Carolina* (1)
LB Da'Quan Bowers, Clemson*
LB Aldon Smith, Missouri*
LB Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue
LB Akeem Ayers, UCLA*
LB Justin Houston, Georgia*
LB Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma (2)
LB Martez Wilson, Illinois*
LB Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh
LB Pernell McPhee, Mississippi St.
LB Sam Acho, Texas

I think these are the only OLB's we would consider drafting, credit to ROP for putting that list together.

Don Vito
01-19-2011, 11:48 AM
Nice job putting that together ROP. A lot of those guys would be great additions at positions we certainly need help at. One thing, I don't see McPhee as a 3-4 OLB. I really see him as a pure 4-3 end at the next level personally.

Razor
01-19-2011, 01:43 PM
If I were to include all rounds my perfect draft would look like:

1a. Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
1b. Cam Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
2a. DeMarcus Love, OG, Arkansas
2b. Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
3a. Kris O'Dowd, C, USC
3b. Marcus Gilbert, OT, Florida
4. Tyler Sash, S, Iowa
5. Thomas Keiser, OLB, Stanford
6. Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond

I don't know much about Justin Rogers, but from what I could gather he's a very good fit int the system which always is nice.

sportslover
01-19-2011, 01:55 PM
I love Kesier from Stanford. He is intelligent, fits BB's mold for an OLB with size and build. He played in a 34 previously at Stanford, and will just be a good fit here.

ElectricEye
01-19-2011, 03:42 PM
I love Kesier from Stanford. He is intelligent, fits BB's mold for an OLB with size and build. He played in a 34 previously at Stanford, and will just be a good fit here.

Love him. But he didn't play all that well this year. Likely a 4th or 5th round pick.

sportslover
01-19-2011, 07:13 PM
That is true. Hopefully he can be a late find for us.

AntoinCD
01-20-2011, 04:45 AM
If I were to include all rounds my perfect draft would look like:

1a. Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
1b. Cam Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
2a. DeMarcus Love, OG, Arkansas
2b. Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
3a. Kris O'Dowd, C, USC
3b. Marcus Gilbert, OT, Florida
4. Tyler Sash, S, Iowa
5. Thomas Keiser, OLB, Stanford
6. Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond

I don't know much about Justin Rogers, but from what I could gather he's a very good fit int the system which always is nice.

Im not a huge Tyler Sash fan honestly but apart from that I love this draft. It adds some real quality along the offensive line and two immediate impact players on defense. I dont know a lot about Keiser or Richmond but any production out of late round picks is a bonus. If theres a RB of nice value in the 4th like Daniel Thomas or Kendall Hunter etc I would prefer to take them, or if we do go safety I like Ahmad Black better than Sash.

Razor
01-20-2011, 08:13 AM
Im not a huge Tyler Sash fan honestly but apart from that I love this draft. It adds some real quality along the offensive line and two immediate impact players on defense. I dont know a lot about Keiser or Richmond but any production out of late round picks is a bonus. If theres a RB of nice value in the 4th like Daniel Thomas or Kendall Hunter etc I would prefer to take them, or if we do go safety I like Ahmad Black better than Sash.

I actually thought about taking a RB in the fourth, but I think that we're fine with Lawfirm and Woody for the time being. I think there will actually be some pretty good RBs availble as UDFAs this year simply due to the number of junior RBs declaring for the draft. Damien Berry (Miami), Vai Taua (Nevada) and Darren Evans (Virginia Tech) are players who could very well go undrafted and imo they are all worth bringing in for the TC and see how they do.

But I think the fourth round is the perfect spot for taking football players, and Sash is most definetly just that. Not a great physical talent, but he brings it every time. I'd rather have him as a backup than Meriweather.

sportslover
01-20-2011, 01:22 PM
If we were to go running back in the later rounds I think Bilal Powell from Louisville would be a great fit. The kid is a very good player and I think will be a great pro, who if given the oppurtunity will be a great starting back. But he can also split time with the Law Firm and Woodhead which is nice. There is no reason for us to take a RB unless he is as good as AP, our run game wasn't our problem this year and for what we did with it, Woodhead and BenJarvus were just fine.

ElectricEye
01-20-2011, 01:23 PM
I agree. The run game is a secondary objective and always will be so long as Brady is here.

sportslover
01-20-2011, 01:29 PM
I think BB looks to OLB, DE, CB, OT with his first 4 picks. But I suspect he will trade down or maybe even up. So we will likely only have 3 picks in the first 2 rounds. But I wouldn't be surprised if BB gets who he wants at #17 to trade down from #28 and pick up 2 later 2nd rounders to give him 5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds, and then flexibility to trade into next year, this is BB we are talking about.

The reason i thought -- OLB, DE, OT, CB -- is because I think you can never have enough depth at CB and BB has thought the same way, so if there is a great player there at any point he will take him. I htink he will take a Vollmer type player in the 2nd round at some point for OT. Our 2 biggest needs are OLB, DE and I hope BB finally addresses those at some point, at the very least hopefully the OLB need. I would say WR instead of CB, but I think BB is content what he has, but may go with a WR in the 3rd or sign a UFA/Trade for one.

descendency
01-20-2011, 02:21 PM
Vollmer being taken in the late second round was a fluke. It was just a poorly judged draft by most GMs. Guys like him are usually not in the second round.

descendency
01-20-2011, 02:22 PM
Damien Berry (Miami), Vai Taua (Nevada) and Darren Evans (Virginia Tech) are players who could very well go undrafted

One of them will likely be taken with a 7th round pick we get when we trade down.

sportslover
01-20-2011, 02:28 PM
Vollmer being taken in the late second round was a fluke. It was just a poorly judged draft by most GMs. Guys like him are usually not in the second round.

To clarify I am not saying his talent level, but in regards to taking an OT of 2nd round value, that's what I see.

nepg
01-20-2011, 06:59 PM
Vollmer being taken in the late second round was a fluke. It was just a poorly judged draft by most GMs. Guys like him are usually not in the second round.
Jared Veldheer was this year.

sportslover
01-20-2011, 07:01 PM
I can possibly see an OT with talent slip to #60 or even an OG to sure up on our OL spots.

ElectricEye
01-20-2011, 07:05 PM
I could see an OT slipping to the second very easily. Such an unstable class for tackles. The top will literally be ranked by team preference. We could get lucky and see Solder drop to the second. This is not very realistic, but it is a possibility.

descendency
01-20-2011, 09:41 PM
Jared Veldheer was this year.

We'll see. Veldheer managed to leapfrog one of the worst LTs in the NFL. Vollmer is arguably the best OT from that class.

I could see an OT slipping to the second very easily. Such an unstable class for tackles. The top will literally be ranked by team preference. We could get lucky and see Solder drop to the second. This is not very realistic, but it is a possibility.

It could happen, but it's super rare to let a franchise tackle fall into round 2. If you have one on the left, you could always use one on the right. It's just not normal for a team to pass up on one, especially since coaches do not feel as bound to them like they do QBs.

That's the biggest reason QBs fall.

The same reason why the Patriots can not draft a DE/OLB hybrid. They only want guys who are prototypical, but those guys can (and often do) go in the top 10-15.

Veldheer fell because he played at Hillsdale. Vollmer fell because he was going to be 25 and was coming off back surgery.

nepg
01-20-2011, 09:44 PM
We'll see. Veldheer managed to leapfrog one of the worst LTs in the NFL. Vollmer is arguably the best OT from that class.



It could happen, but it's super rare to let a franchise tackle fall into round 2. If you have one on the left, you could always use one on the right. It's just not normal for a team to pass up on one, especially since coaches do not feel as bound to them like they do QBs.

That's the biggest reason QBs fall.

The same reason why the Patriots can not draft a DE/OLB hybrid. They only want guys who are prototypical, but those guys can (and often do) go in the top 10-15.
I'd targetted Veldheer for my Pats' wish list in round 2 last year (and didn't think they'd have a chance at him) - not complaining about Cunningham or Spikes, though. There will be another giant athletic dude that doesn't get enough attention this year. There almost always is, it seems.

ElectricEye
01-20-2011, 10:44 PM
Think there's a bit of revisionist history here with Vollmer. If we didn't take him in the second, no one would have. He was under the radar for concerns about his age and rawness. Scarnecchia is one of the better position coaches in the NFL and can help a guy work through issues quicker than others. But there were pretty significant concerns about Vollmer, we're not talking about a blue chip prospect. Wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl and only really made waves at the Shrine Game practices. Before that, he was an intriguing option in the late rounds.

sportslover
01-21-2011, 07:38 AM
#17 -- Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
#28 -- Cameron Jordan, DE, California
#33 -- Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida
#60 -- Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
#74 -- Marcus Cannon, OT, TCU
#92 -- Greg Romeus, DE, Pittsburgh
4th -- Tom Keiser, OLB, Stanford
5th -- Bilal Powell, RB, Louisville
6th -- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond

These are my new thoughts on the Patriots picks. Everything I am hearing says that Kerrigan is probably the best OLB fit the Pats can find at the top of the draft, so he becomes a real possibility at #17. I have also heard that JJ Watt may not make the best fit in NE, but a guy like Heyward or Jordan will, so that's where we get that #28 pick. At 33, you sure up the OL with a ready made player. From there you go OT, WR, DE, and add depth and a solid OT who can play RT in the pros. More depth added late with a RB, another OLB and CB that everyone says fits our system.

Overall we add -- 2 OLB, 2 DE, OG, WR, OT, RB, CB

All of are biggest needs, and don't add all top guys but also depth that can spring into a bigger role. I love Romeus and Keisler in the middle rounds to imerge as very good players in a 3-4.

At this point I also expect the Pats to trade down from #28.

Nalej
01-21-2011, 03:12 PM
More like 3 OLBs and one de. Either way, I like it.

sportslover
01-21-2011, 04:46 PM
Romeus is 3-4 DE material.. 6-6/6-7 270lbs -- needs to bulk up a bit but still good.

Jordan is a 3-4 DE.

Keisler and Kerrigan are OLB

ElectricEye
01-21-2011, 04:48 PM
Disagree with you there. Romeus is not a two gap player. Doesn't play with enough power or effect the run. Not the type of guy to handle double teams and make plays through the gaps. He has 3-4 DE size on paper(but not the right build), but not ability. If he were drafted into a 3-4, he would likely be required to shed 10 pounds and play OLB.

sportslover
01-21-2011, 04:59 PM
That would be ideal for him to drop 10lbs, but you can also have him bulk up and play in sub packages.

ElectricEye
01-21-2011, 05:03 PM
I don't really think he could bulk up much to be honest. He's got a basketball body and his injury very well could have something to do with bulking up too much too soon. Played at around 250 his Junior year. He can get after the passer for sure and should be a real good player if he can come back from from that knee injury 100%.

nepg
01-21-2011, 06:16 PM
Honestly... I don't get the obsession with people thinking the Pats will draft a DE. The only reasoning seems to be that all of the other positions seem to be locked down pretty solidly and this draft is stacked with 5-tech prospects.

I really wasn't disappointed with the DL this year at all, and that's before talking about the injuries to the better parts of the DE depth chart. Pepper Johnson did an amazing job this year developing young defensive linemen, and Gerard Warren was a huge addition. I mean, you stick Ty Warren and Mike Wright back in that rotation and the DL looks absolutely sick.

Aside from the miracle possibility of Marcel Dareus falling, the only DL that's getting me the least bit excited for the Pats right now is Paea because of his potential to develop into a dominant NT. But I see Deaderick as someone who could develop into an NT and I'm pretty interested in Kade Weston, too.

If one of the QBs starts sliding, I'm down for the Pats snagging him at #17. Those QBs all have elite talent. Put them in an Aaron Rodgers-type situation and amazing things could happen/continue down the road.

descendency
01-21-2011, 06:38 PM
I really wasn't disappointed with the DL this year at all, and that's before talking about the injuries to the better parts of the DE depth chart.

Ron Brace and Brandon Deaderick were sieves in the running game. They were the reason why the Patriots couldn't stop the run against Cleveland.

The Pass Rushers (pryor and wright) are in need of a replacement or some help.

edit: The DE and OG/C are NE two biggest needs. OLB is 3rd. The rest of the positions are backups or situational/rotational players.

ElectricEye
01-21-2011, 06:42 PM
Ty Warren and Mike Wright will be huge additions, but Gerrard Warren is merely serviceable at that position. Good lockeroom guy by most accounts and a real nice rotational player to have, but not an above average starter. We had real issues stopping the run at times this year and a top flight DE is only going to help. This team has shown a dedication, or obsession really, in years past to building the defense from the line up. Most of those guys you mentioned do have some potential...but not as big time starters. We have enough versatile rotational players on the DL. It's time to bring in some full time starters.

As far as specific guys, I don't think either Dareus or Paea fit real well. Dareus could well fit in here, but I would be more interested in him in a 1 gap system. Same goes for Paea. He's a cut guy for 300+ and is more in the Brandon Mebane category than than a full on NT. He would have to do some sumo eating and really change the way he plays to become a true NT. Could he be Jay Ratliff? Absolutely. But we really don't have much room for guys like that here, especially at the price of a first round pick.

I'm not willing to close the book on Brady yet or even make plans for it. That's a step in the wrong direction mentally for this team. We want to be contending for a title with Tom Brady in next few years. From a pure business machine standpoint, drafting a quarterback to start in a few years would be a good move...but it sends the wrong message to the players to say this all has an expiration date. We should be putting the pieces together to be relevant now, not drafting to stay relevant in a few years. Worst comes to worst, we lose Brady in three years and field a stop gap type player at quarterback with hopefully improved offense talent for a year. But that's looking way to far down the line right now. A first round pick is too valuable an asset to expend on the far future right now. We should be using it to beat the Jets and get to a Super Bowl.

ElectricEye
01-21-2011, 06:45 PM
Ron Brace and Brandon Deaderick were sieves in the running game. They were the reason why the Patriots couldn't stop the run against Cleveland.

I wouldn't call Brace a sieve as much as a guy out of place. He was drafted because we weren't confident we could come to an agreement with Wilfork probably for some leverage in those negotiations. With Wilfork cemented as the unquestioned Alpha Dog at NT, he doesn't really fit in well anywhere. He did pretty good plugging up the run when it was to the inside, but anything that involved footspeed he struggled with. Also doesn't do him any good that he apparently has major conditioning issues.

descendency
01-21-2011, 06:47 PM
Stephen Paea is being graded out as a 34 NT.

nepg
01-21-2011, 08:22 PM
Ron Brace and Brandon Deaderick were sieves in the running game. They were the reason why the Patriots couldn't stop the run against Cleveland.

The Pass Rushers (pryor and wright) are in need of a replacement or some help.

edit: The DE and OG/C are NE two biggest needs. OLB is 3rd. The rest of the positions are backups or situational/rotational players.
Wright and Pryor were injured for a large portion of the season. Wright was one of the best - if not THE best - pass rushing 3-4 DE in the NFL this season. He was a beast until he suffered the concussion and never came back. People keep talking about replacing him (going back years now), but he's proven he's on a higher level as a 3-4 DL than what he's been given credit for.

ElectricEye
01-21-2011, 08:23 PM
Square peg, round hole. The desire for NT's is at an all time high right now...but unfortunately the supply does not meet the demand. A few years ago before the mass migration to the 3-4, Paea wouldn't even be considered there.

I've seen a lot of Northwest Football the past few years and he stands out for sure...but I think his potential is very limited in a 3-4. It would have to be the right team and be more of an attacking style defense. Scott said Sedrick Ellis for a guy he's similar too. Are you guys REALLY comfortable having that type of player play the most important position in a 3-4?

sportslover
01-21-2011, 08:24 PM
If you don't think we need a DE. What makes you think we need a NT? We have the best one in the league.

ElectricEye
01-21-2011, 08:25 PM
Wright and Pryor were injured for a large portion of the season. Wright was one of the best - if not THE best - pass rushing 3-4 DE in the NFL this season. He was a beast until he suffered the concussion and never came back. People keep talking about replacing him (going back years now), but he's proven he's on a higher level as a 3-4 DL than what he's been given credit for.

That doesn't make him a starting caliber player though. That's great that he can get after the passer and all that. Love him as a player and was possibly one of the more underrated guys in the NFL the past few years...but he's a rotational player without a true position. He's not a stout gap player or a guy who can demand double teams and allows LB's to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. He hardly ever plays out of the base package anyway.

Hell, the fact we can't run a base package is a bad sign for our defensive line.

descendency
01-21-2011, 09:24 PM
Square peg, round hole. The desire for NT's is at an all time high right now...but unfortunately the supply does not meet the demand. A few years ago before the mass migration to the 3-4, Paea wouldn't even be considered there.

Paea is a 1 gapper, 43 NT. He's 310+ LBs at 6'1". He uses leverage and plays like a NT. While I don't think he'll be a great 34 NT, I think he'll be fine.

nepg
01-21-2011, 09:29 PM
If you don't think we need a DE. What makes you think we need a NT? We have the best one in the league.
They don't, but the fact that Paea offers that kind of versatility makes him an attractive option. Paea would primarily be a DE for the Pats with the ability to fill in at NT. He's the kind of player that would never have to leave the field.

sportslover
01-21-2011, 09:37 PM
That is true, but I think a OLB pass rusher who can play on all 3 downs is a much more pressing needs. a Smith/Quinn/Kerrigan type talent is what we need and much more pressing at 17.

nepg
01-21-2011, 09:47 PM
That is true, but I think a OLB pass rusher who can play on all 3 downs is a much more pressing needs. a Smith/Quinn/Kerrigan type talent is what we need and much more pressing at 17.
I've been saying I'm not in favor of drafting a DL in the first.

Kerrigan, Pouncey, or Miller/Houston at #17 would do more to get the Pats back to being one of the best scoring defenses in the NFL while prolonging the success of the offense. OLB, C, and OT with the first three picks would probably be my preference. Wouldn't mind a RB mixed in there, either.

I think QB is a viable option. I don't see the negative impact with Tom Brady so obviously in his prime. The only person that should take offense to it would be Hoyer.

sportslover
01-21-2011, 09:49 PM
Yeah definitely agree with you there. I like Kerrigan, Aldon Smith and of course Quinn the most with our first pick whether it's at 17 or trade up.

Nalej
01-21-2011, 10:44 PM
Scott mocked us A. Smith and C. Heyward. Love it.

sportslover
01-21-2011, 10:49 PM
I'd LOVE that too.

Razor
01-22-2011, 05:20 AM
Scott mocked us A. Smith and C. Heyward. Love it.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/attachments/trip-inn/142051d1253497850-cider-potassium-sorbate-homer-drool.gif

Nalej
01-22-2011, 08:01 AM
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/01/22/surgery-hampers-heywards-preparations.html?sid=101

C. Heyward had surgery on his elbow. Going to miss the Senior bowl and might mess with his combine numbers.
More and more likely that he'll be available at #28. Love it.

sportslover
01-22-2011, 08:37 AM
My favorite 3-4 DE in this class is JJ Watt. But I'd be fine with us taking a guy like Aldon Smith who will be a stud pass rusher over him and then taking Heyward later on.

ElectricEye
01-22-2011, 09:53 AM
Paea is a 1 gapper, 43 NT. He's 310+ LBs at 6'1". He uses leverage and plays like a NT. While I don't think he'll be a great 34 NT, I think he'll be fine.
You don't draft a player in the first round at NT to be fine. I do agree he uses leverage well, but that doesn't mean he plays like a NT. He would be an UT for a lot of teams who run a 4-3 because of his penetrating abilities. Could he play NT? Sure. He could manage and get by...but you would be much better off if you were another team taking Phil Taylor in the fourth round than Paea in the first and telling him to do something his body and skillset aren't meant to.

Aldon Smith and Cam Heyward is a great haul. Smith is a little concerning, but he's the type of OLB the staff has been looking for. High bust potential there though.

descendency
01-22-2011, 12:54 PM
Aldon Smith and Cam Heyward is a great haul. Smith is a little concerning, but he's the type of OLB the staff has been looking for. High bust potential there though.

I agree with this. I was simply pointing out that the "expert" opinion is that Paea is a 34/43 NT.

ElectricEye
01-22-2011, 03:45 PM
So Brandon Bair has been flashing down at the Shrine Game. He's 6'7 270 pounds. Definite five technique candidate and has the frame to get much bigger and stronger. Someone to keep an eye on in the later rounds for sure. Sneaky productive for Oregon as well the past few years.

nepg
01-22-2011, 08:29 PM
I'd be pretty damn happy with Aldon Smith. I actually keep forgetting about the guy. I don't see much bust potential for him with the Patriots. He plays really well in contain, and is just very athletic and would be a versatile player on that team.

descendency
01-22-2011, 09:02 PM
I was thinking about what my "ideal" Patriots mock would look like (or what I'd like to call "Dynasty II"):

1 (17): Robert Quinn, DE/OLB, UNC
1 (28): Cameron Heyward, DE/DT, Ohio State
2 (33): Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
2 (60): Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
3 (74): Marcus Gilbert, OT, Florida
3 (92): Christian Ponder, QB, Florida State
4: Rashad Carmichael, CB/KR, Virginia Tech
5: KJ Wright, OLB, Mississippi
6: Darren Evans, RB, Virginia Tech

This makes my projected 2011 team (finishing starters - because rookies will likely not start right away):

Tom Brady
Benjarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead
Leonard Hankerson, Wes Welker, and Deion Branch
Rob Gronkowski
Sebastian Vollmer, Logan Mankins, Rodney Hudson, Nick Kaczur, Marcus Gilbert

Cameron Heyward, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren
Robert Quinn, Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Jermaine Cunningham
Devin McCourty, James Sanders, Pat Chung, Leigh Bodden

I left off Kevin Faulk because of his age and injury concern and Brandon Meriweather because I think he gets traded.

proshoota25
01-23-2011, 02:06 AM
aldon smith and heyward would be the sex. however, idk the pats would actually take aldon..... hes pretty raw, not a senior, and im pretty sure hes not a captain (not 100% sure tho).

Razor
01-23-2011, 05:20 AM
I was thinking about what my "ideal" Patriots mock would look like (or what I'd like to call "Dynasty II"):

1 (17): Robert Quinn, DE/OLB, UNC
1 (28): Cameron Heyward, DE/DT, Ohio State
2 (33): Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State
2 (60): Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
3 (74): Marcus Gilbert, OT, Florida
3 (92): Christian Ponder, QB, Florida State
4: Rashad Carmichael, CB/KR, Virginia Tech
5: KJ Wright, OLB, Mississippi
6: Darren Evans, RB, Virginia Tech

This makes my projected 2011 team (finishing starters - because rookies will likely not start right away):

Tom Brady
Benjarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead
Leonard Hankerson, Wes Welker, and Deion Branch
Rob Gronkowski
Sebastian Vollmer, Logan Mankins, Rodney Hudson, Nick Kaczur, Marcus Gilbert

Cameron Heyward, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren
Robert Quinn, Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Jermaine Cunningham
Devin McCourty, James Sanders, Pat Chung, Leigh Bodden

I left off Kevin Faulk because of his age and injury concern and Brandon Meriweather because I think he gets traded.

Robert Quinn is the best pass rusher and the best 3-4 OLB prospect in the draft. There's no way he falls to #17 come draft day although I'd love for it to happen. I'm still a bit iffy about Rodney Hudson because of his size (or lack of it really). The proliferation of the 3-4, especially in the AFC, means that you need relatively big O-linemen. The Patriots already has one of the smaller O-lines in the NFL and adding a 290-295 lbs center doesn't really help us against those big NTs that's been killing us for the last couple of seasons. Otherwise I really like you mock, I'd be very happy with it.

sportslover
01-23-2011, 08:39 AM
If I had a dream draft, it would be.

#17 -- OLB Robert Quinn - North Carolina
#28 -- DE Cameron Heyward -- Ohio State
#33 -- WR Jonathan Baldwin -- Pittsburgh
#60 -- LB Mark Herzlich -- Boston College
#74 -- OG Marcus Cannon -- TCU
#92 -- OT Joseph Barksdale -- LSU
4 -- CB Rashad Carmichael -- Virginia Tech
5 -- RB Bilal Powell -- Louisville
6 -- OG Bryant Browning -- Ohio State

This would require a few guys to drop but nothing major besides Quinn sliding a bit, but tell me this wouldn't be a great draft, addressing all of our needs and pretty well. Our Front seven would be set for years to come FINALLY! Pick up 3 OL, one of the better Guards, and 2 guys that the Patriots have talked to. Carmichael is a solid CB with very good speed and can return if need be. Powell is a personal favorite of mine who will be a very good RB to add to the mix and I think has very good starting potential this late.

I don't expect it to happen but it could, and would be my dream draft.

sportslover
01-23-2011, 08:45 AM
Take it for what it is, but at the Shrine game, these are some guys that have talked to the Pats in interviews:

LB Brian Rolle, Ohio State
CB Justin Rogers, Richmond
WR Terreance Tolliver, LSU
S Nate Williams, Washington
RB Alex Green, Hawaii
OT Joseph Barksdale, LSU
DE Chetu Ozougwu, Rice
OG Caleb Schlauderaff, Utah
DT David Carter, UCLA
S Justin Taplin, Utah

luckyjackaubrey
01-23-2011, 08:58 AM
I'm all for packaging Merriweather and #17 to move up for either Quinn or Kerrigan.

descendency
01-23-2011, 12:22 PM
Take it for what it is, but at the Shrine game, these are some guys that have talked to the Pats in interviews:

LB Brian Rolle, Ohio State
CB Justin Rogers, Richmond
WR Terreance Tolliver, LSU
S Nate Williams, Washington
RB Alex Green, Hawaii
OT Joseph Barksdale, LSU
DE Chetu Ozougwu, Rice
OG Caleb Schlauderaff, Utah
DT David Carter, UCLA
S Justin Taplin, Utah

Just curious where did you get that from? (the regular writers have already quit reporting lol)

I'm all for packaging Merriweather and #17 to move up for either Quinn or Kerrigan.

Yes please.

I think we have 3-4 safeties (without Meriweather) right now that I am comfortable as starters.

ElectricEye
01-23-2011, 12:23 PM
Take it for what it is, but at the Shrine game, these are some guys that have talked to the Pats in interviews:

LB Brian Rolle, Ohio State
CB Justin Rogers, Richmond
WR Terreance Tolliver, LSU
S Nate Williams, Washington
RB Alex Green, Hawaii
OT Joseph Barksdale, LSU
DE Chetu Ozougwu, Rice
OG Caleb Schlauderaff, Utah
DT David Carter, UCLA
S Justin Taplin, Utah

Some of those names are surprising. Some not so. David Carter looked pretty good and has the right build to be a five technique. Caleb Schlauderaff is sort of what we look for in offensive linemen. Type of guy we overdraft haha. Tolliver is a guy whom I really like. Failed to launch at LSU, but the quarterback play the past few years sort of puts that in perspective.

sportslover
01-23-2011, 12:33 PM
Got them from a draft site who covered shrine game and team interviews with players.

Some are surprising. But real time we want to look for is the Senior Bowl where there is a better talent pool.

proshoota25
01-23-2011, 12:37 PM
Tolliver is really the only guy on that last that I would be fine with I guess. Meriweather and 17 would be sweet... just dont know who would actually take such an offer lol

luckyjackaubrey
01-23-2011, 12:42 PM
Tolliver is really the only guy on that last that I would be fine with I guess. Meriweather and 17 would be sweet... just dont know who would actually take such an offer lol

Clearly someone has to give Al Davis a 1st rounder he can send our way, he is our adopted draft bell cow!

Razor
01-23-2011, 01:06 PM
Tolliver is really the only guy on that last that I would be fine with I guess. Meriweather and 17 would be sweet... just dont know who would actually take such an offer lol

Justin Rogers from Richmond looks like a perfect fit in our scheme. I don't know about intelligence and work ethic and such, but from what I've read (never seen him play) he is a great fit here. Might not be a starter, but a great nickel/dime.

Matthew Jones
01-24-2011, 08:01 PM
Updated list of players I've heard the Patriots meeting with. I put an asterisk* next to guys sportslover posted but I hadn't heard about:

RB Alex Green, Hawaii
WR Terrence Tolliver, Louisiana St.*
OT Joseph Barksdale, Louisiana St.
OT Ben Ijalana, Villanova (x2)
OT Danny Watkins, Baylor
OG Caleb Schlauderaff, Utah
DE Christian Ballard, Iowa
DE David Carter, UCLA
LB Cliff Matthews, South Carolina (x2)
LB Cheta Ozougwu, Rice
LB Dain Taylor, Drake
CB Justin Rogers, Richmond*
FS Ahmad Black, Florida
FS Justin Taplin-Ross, Utah
FS Nate Williams, Washington*

nepg
01-24-2011, 08:15 PM
Cliff Matthews is interesting.

sportslover
01-24-2011, 08:15 PM
Yeah nice post -- heard about Christian Ballard and Ahmad Black having official interviews tomorrow about an hour ago.

descendency
01-24-2011, 08:29 PM
Leonard Hankerson is about to sky-rocket.

sportslover
01-24-2011, 08:43 PM
I was disapointed with his size but I heard he had a GREAT practice.

descendency
01-24-2011, 11:19 PM
I was disapointed with his size but I heard he had a GREAT practice.

Long arms, big hands. A little short, but I won't cry over 6'2".

nepg
01-24-2011, 11:26 PM
6'2 is about as tall as you can be as a consistently good receiver unless you're some sort of special talent.

It's hard for me to see the Pats going with a WR, though. They're 5 deep and are all getting better as a unit. One of the requisites for drafting a WR would be that the Patriots have a roster spot for one. Do you think Hankerson goes into camp and overtakes Tate, Price, or Edelman? Seems like a near-impossible task - especially considering the special teams factor for two of them.

I think it's Julio Jones, AJ Green, or nothing as far as WR goes in this draft. I don't see them stashing a guy away like they did with Price this past season.

descendency
01-24-2011, 11:38 PM
Do you think Hankerson goes into camp and overtakes Tate, Price, or Edelman?

Edelman, easily. I think Edelman's role may be reduced even if we don't draft a WR. He's clearly just a PR, which could be found at Nickel CB or something as well. (usually...) Can Darius Butler return punts? I thought he did at UConn.

Tate drops deep passes like crazy. If he doesn't show up this year with a few catches longer than swing passes or screens, I would imagine he will be losing ground.

Price... I don't know. The guy was active for 1? game. He wasn't exactly dominating elite competition at Ohio either.

So I wouldn't exactly say that it would be hard to do. That said, Hankerson has no special teams value. I would imagine this would mean him and Price would be battling it out.

The other name that is getting a ton of attention (because of his size and first practice, though his hands are average at best in size) is Courtney Smith (South Alabama U) who is 6'4" 220 with 33.75 inch arms and 9.5 inch hands. He also managed to catch everything thrown his way. He was smooth off the line and seemed to run good routes. Basically he was quick and could get open but has a huge body for that kind of player. If he times well at the combine, he could sky rocket. I have zero idea where his grade is right now because he was only a senior bowl invite because Troy WR Jerrell Jernigan pulled out.

ElectricEye
01-24-2011, 11:49 PM
Cliff Matthews is interesting.

He's also kind of lazy from what I've heard. I've been waiting for him to really break out for a few years. The ability is there, but he just doesn't show up on the field. South Carolina fools gold just like Eric Norwood and Clifton Geathers IMO.


I love the Hankerson love, but I just don't see him as this big time wide receiver. There's very little shame in that and he'll be a very good pro...but he's limited athletically and we're finding out now he doesn't have the best size. Talk about arm length and hand size all you want, but that doesn't seem to be helping Michael Crabtree bully NFL defensive backs like he did at TCU. Measuring in at 6'1 hurts him for sure.

nepg
01-24-2011, 11:56 PM
Edelman, easily. I think Edelman's role may be reduced even if we don't draft a WR. He's clearly just a PR, which could be found at Nickel CB or something as well. (usually...) Can Darius Butler return punts? I thought he did at UConn.

I disagree. Edelman was way underused this year and that was a mistake. He was dominant in the touches he got later in the season...including the playoff game. If they had to choose, I might take Edelman over Welker at this point.

Point is, when you draft a guy in the first few rounds, you have to have a definite place for him on the roster. The Patriots have a lot invested in the guys they have, and I don't see why they'd be interested in giving up on Tate or Price yet, and Edelman is very under-utilized. O'Brien has to find ways to get Edelman the ball more next season.

ElectricEye
01-25-2011, 12:00 AM
Edelmen won we over in person. He had a real good game on Miami's 1's. Not just because of the punt return either. He has the potential to be a real good receiver.

As far as placement goes, I think Tate could be on the chopping block. Fair or not, he hasn't produced. He's just not a good natural hands catcher and doesn't seem to go for the catch either too early or too late. Good speed and all that, but the NFL is results orientated.

Price has some potential and actually did look good when he finally got in there. We invested a fairly high pick in him too so I imagine we want to hang on to him to see what we have.

But I do think we need a receiver. None of the guys we have match up well on the outside. The Jets clogged the middle of the field against us just like the Ravens did early in the year and it stopped us dead. There's no getting around that.

nepg
01-25-2011, 12:07 AM
Edelmen won we over in person. He had a real good game on Miami's 1's. Not just because of the punt return either. He has the potential to be a real good receiver.

As far as placement goes, I think Tate could be on the chopping block. Fair or not, he hasn't produced. He's just not a good natural hands catcher and doesn't seem to go for the catch either too early or too late. Good speed and all that, but the NFL is results orientated.

Price has some potential and actually did look good when he finally got in there. We invested a fairly high pick in him too so I imagine we want to hang on to him to see what we have.

But I do think we need a receiver. None of the guys we have match up well on the outside. The Jets clogged the middle of the field against us just like the Ravens did early in the year and it stopped us dead. There's no getting around that.
Run the ball more. A young, bigger RB could do wonders.

I'm not giving up on Tate. He's no Bethel Johnson or Chad Jackson.

Razor
01-25-2011, 04:50 AM
[QUOTE=ElectricEye]He's also kind of lazy from what I've heard. I've been waiting for him to really break out for a few years. The ability is there, but he just doesn't show up on the field. South Carolina fools gold just like Eric Norwood and Clifton Geathers IMO. [QUOTE]

Every time I watched South Carolina play I came away disappointed with Matthews. He was invisible for most of the time. His teammate Devin Taylor looked great though, he could be a first rounder next year.

I was a bit disappointed that Hankerson is only 6'2" but I still think he's a pretty damned good prospect.

AntoinCD
01-25-2011, 05:25 AM
Tolliver is really the only guy on that last that I would be fine with I guess. Meriweather and 17 would be sweet... just dont know who would actually take such an offer lol

If I had to guess I would say Dallas or Houston.

Dallas would get an impact safety and be able to move back and pick up a player like Brandon Harris etc. This wouldn't apply though if PP or Prince Amukamara are still around at #9.

Houston would take a similar approach but may also target someone like Allen Bailey or JJ Watt at #17 as well.

ElectricEye
01-25-2011, 10:35 AM
Run the ball more. A young, bigger RB could do wonders.

I'm not giving up on Tate. He's no Bethel Johnson or Chad Jackson.

I'm comfortable with our backs. We should look to upgrade if we can, but I'm fairly good sitting with Lawfirm and Woodhead. Offensive balance wasn't the issue.


He makes catches awfully tough on himself which is something I really don't like. Drops the easy ones on occasion too. We were virtually begging for him to step it up this year and he just never did.

sportslover
01-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Cam Jordan and Ryan Kerrigan impressing at Senior Bowl. patriots take note!!

ElectricEye
01-25-2011, 10:59 AM
Cam Jordan is impressing TOO much I think. He looks like he could be a top five or ten pick right now. Nobody can block him.

Don Vito
01-25-2011, 12:09 PM
Yeah I think Cam Jordan has played himself right out of our range, it sucks but holy **** are there some great DL prospects this year. We need to take advantage of that.

proshoota25
01-25-2011, 12:11 PM
yeah im gunna have to change my pats mock now. jordan is a beast

Nalej
01-25-2011, 12:18 PM
Dont know much Acho... but Sheard would be sexy at the end of 2nd

ElectricEye
01-25-2011, 02:54 PM
Yeah I think Cam Jordan has played himself right out of our range, it sucks but holy **** are there some great DL prospects this year. We need to take advantage of that.

We really better. This is a garden of eden for five techniques.

Babylon
01-25-2011, 03:05 PM
Jordan is probably going to be gone so the choice might be Watt, Heyward or Kerrigan. Kerrigan to me seems unique so i'd probably try for the 3-4 end with the next two picks.

ElectricEye
01-25-2011, 03:51 PM
It would be awfully hard to pass on Kerrigan if he were there. He's not going to run an exceptional 40 time, but his athleticism is even better than advertised. I could see us doing it for a linemen, but it would be hard.

Matthew Jones
01-25-2011, 03:58 PM
I doubt Kerrigan lasts until the Patriots are picking, but he'd be a perfect pick at #17 if you ask me. I almost hope the Patriots wait on a DE and draft Wilkerson at some point, he seems great.

sportslover
01-25-2011, 04:03 PM
I really hope we get Quinn/Kerigan/Smith at 17 and wait to get a guy like Wilkerson later, but I wouldnt be mad if Cameron Jordan somehow slipped.

Don Vito
01-25-2011, 04:04 PM
Kerrigan would be the perfect pick at 17 unless a guy like Jordan, Fairley, Dareus, Quinn, or Bowers somehow fell. Cam Heyward is getting pushed back with all of these guys rising and I'd bet he will be there at 17 if Kerrigan is gone, but there certainly will be at least one very good 5-tech prospect around at 33 and perhaps an "elite" one at 17.

Babylon
01-25-2011, 04:14 PM
Kerrigan would be the perfect pick at 17 unless a guy like Jordan, Fairley, Dareus, Quinn, or Bowers somehow fell. Cam Heyward is getting pushed back with all of these guys rising and I'd bet he will be there at 17 if Kerrigan is gone, but there certainly will be at least one very good 5-tech prospect around at 33 and perhaps an "elite" one at 17.

Fairley, Bowers and Dareus wont be there but Quinn could be. Question is do you want to take a guy who has sat out a season or a pretty sure thing in Kerrigan. You didnt mention Watt and he would really put them in a pickle if he's there.

descendency
01-25-2011, 08:05 PM
Question is do you want to take a guy who has sat out a season or a pretty sure thing in Kerrigan.

If the Patriots pass on Quinn, it won't be because he sat out a year. It will be because of why he had to sit out - something that shows a real lack of team dedication and wreaks of the wrong personality type for this team.

Kerrigan scares me as a guy who could come in and compete for a while, until people figure him out. I always wonder when over-achievers will fall on their face.

JJ Watt is a 6 Tech in my eyes after watching some stuff (6tech = 43 DE). I see a really good first step with solid pass rushing moves and a high motor. I'd definitely take him in the middle of the first if I am a 43 team.

edit: Right now, my top 5 5techs are:
Marcel Dareus
Cameron Jordan
Cameron Heyward
Christian Ballard
Allen Bailey (I guess...)

sportslover
01-25-2011, 08:11 PM
If the Patriots pass on Quinn, I'd be ticked. I have been ticked in past drafts when BB passes on a guy I want and for the most part it works out quite alright, but I think clearly Quinn is the best at the 3-4 OLB position at the biggest area of need and if he is sitting there when BB is picking, and is passed on, I will seriously have to sit and think whether my idea of the team needs are off (likely) or BB doesn't have a clue (less likely).

I have had Quinn tabbed as the best 3-4 OLB for a while and a guy I have wanted the Pats to draft for a while, so if he is there at #17 or even needed to trade up for, I hope the Pats do it.

ElectricEye
01-25-2011, 08:59 PM
I don't think Kerrigan is an overachiever at all. This isn't some scrappy lunch pail guy we're talking about. He's technically sound and in shape, but those are hardly marks against him. He has a chance to run 4.7 or high 4.6 at 255 and 6'4. That's not a below average athlete we're talking about. He straight up ran around Nate Solder once when Solder got off the line fine.

proshoota25
01-25-2011, 11:42 PM
Dont know much Acho... but Sheard would be sexy at the end of 2nd

i was thinking acho for a while but he measured in small at 6'1 3/4..... might be too small for BB

descendency
01-26-2011, 12:08 AM
He straight up ran around Nate Solder once when Solder got off the line fine.

This is what bothers me. Day 1 he was able to get around Solder with some "ease". Day 2 Solder had a much better day against him.

ElectricEye
01-26-2011, 12:13 AM
This is what bothers me. Day 1 he was able to get around Solder with some "ease". Day 2 Solder had a much better day against him.

He damn well should. He's a top fifteen pick in his own right. Kerrigan did not look bad or limited athletically at all at any point during drills. I would venture to say he was probably the best athlete and in the best shape out of all the defensive ends there even.

ElectricEye
01-26-2011, 12:44 AM
Just a heads up; we're on Ahmad Black's nuts. If we do something like stupid like draft him in the first round, that's likely it for me guys.

Nalej
01-26-2011, 06:27 AM
haha... you say that now... but once he has seven picks and makes the pro bowl as a rookie... you'll be fine and so will I.
I'll admit though... I'll rip all my hair out if it happens though
(I wouldn't mind it at all if we drafted him only AFTER we traded away a safety... Meriweather? ... first)

AntoinCD
01-26-2011, 06:58 AM
haha... you say that now... but once he has seven picks and makes the pro bowl as a rookie... you'll be fine and so will I.
I'll admit though... I'll rip all my hair out if it happens though
(I wouldn't mind it at all if we drafted him only AFTER we traded away a safety... Meriweather? ... first)

No!!! Lol I have a new dream draft. Trade Brandon Merriweather and #28 with St Louis and take Cameron Jordan. Draft Ryan Kerrigan with #17. Draft Mike Pouncey with #33 and Kris O'Dowd with #60. Then if Black's there in the 3rd, sure I wouldn't mind if we took him.

nepg
01-26-2011, 12:04 PM
This is what bothers me. Day 1 he was able to get around Solder with some "ease". Day 2 Solder had a much better day against him.
I think that's more of a commendation - or, rather, a non-condemnation of Solder. I would have had a serious problem with an OT that wouldn't make an adjustment after getting ripped like that. I think it's on the Prince of Blades to come back with something new the next time, though.

I wouldn't be against Black in the 2nd. I like him a lot and would play the Meriweather role well.

ElectricEye
01-26-2011, 02:07 PM
I think that's more of a commendation - or, rather, a non-condemnation of Solder. I would have had a serious problem with an OT that wouldn't make an adjustment after getting ripped like that. I think it's on the Prince of Blades to come back with something new the next time, though.


He ran by him a few times this week and one time put one of the dirtier up and under moves you'll ever see. Kerrigan won the battle for sure, but not by a whole lot. If Solder got the initial punch it was over because he can mirror so well.

proshoota25
01-26-2011, 04:58 PM
black would be a great addition to the team in the third round

ElectricEye
01-26-2011, 05:49 PM
In the third sure. But BB gets funny ideas with two things;

1: Defensive backs
2: Florida Gators


Expect overdrafting.

nepg
01-26-2011, 06:01 PM
In the third sure. But BB gets funny ideas with two things;

1: Defensive backs
2: Florida Gators


Expect overdrafting.
Not complaining with either after the 2010 draft. And Black is a major talent who underachieved in 2009, but had a huge season in 2010. The dude is a legit 2nd round prospect.

The Patriots always 'overdraft' before the 4th round. That's how they get the guys they target. It's why they're better than most teams at building through the draft.

The team has so many picks, there's no way I can be upset with them using one to get a guy they really want even though the position he plays might not be perceived as a need. Because, looking at the team, they really don't have a lot of serious needs. I'm happy rolling with the front office if they think they need to do something about the safety position because, let's be honest, the safeties were pretty disappointing this year.

ElectricEye
01-26-2011, 06:25 PM
Meh. Black is not going to be a full time starter at safety simply because of the injury issue. 5'9 183 just doesn't play well at safety. Pretty sure he can't play corner either. Not a very good guy in man coverage because of his lack of footspeed.

nepg
01-26-2011, 06:40 PM
Could also just be the Pats checking out Black to get more information about other UF players as well as some other SEC offensive players.

ElectricEye
01-26-2011, 06:42 PM
That too. But I will rage so hard if we take him before the late second. He's a playmaker with good ball skills....but will likely be limited to a nickelback.

luckyjackaubrey
01-26-2011, 07:30 PM
Nickel back = starter in today's NFL with all the multiple reciever sets and predominance of passing. One thing this defense needs is a few playmakers. Our bend but don't break mentality relies on two things to be viable. 1) the other team cannot sustain multiple long drives due to their own inabilities. 2) we have a few guys who create turnovers. That is something we could use a little more of in my opinion. That and some big time talent up front, both sides of the ball.

nepg
01-26-2011, 08:37 PM
Yeah, I'd agree that they need someone capable of making a big play on the defensive end. When teams get in rhythm against this defense, they struggle. Having someone that's capable of coming in and making something happen to take the opposing offense down a notch would be huge.

sportslover
01-26-2011, 08:41 PM
Leonard Hankerson talked with pats today.

sportslover
01-26-2011, 08:42 PM
Leonard Hankerson talked with Pats today.

Nalej
01-26-2011, 08:53 PM
Did he talk to them twice? lol

ElectricEye
01-26-2011, 09:55 PM
I hope so. I'm watching the South practice right now and he's flashing all over the place.

descendency
01-27-2011, 05:00 AM
I think we can drop Kris O'Dowd from the Patriots wish list. He's been absolutely blown up this week. He's bad 1vs1. He wouldn't last against NTs in this league.

I am still really high on Marcus Gilbert. I think he's a starting RT in the NFL by no later than week 10.

Cameron Jordan definitely has gone out of the Patriots range now, unless they trade up.

sportslover
01-27-2011, 07:07 AM
Gilbert is a guy that can be had at #60 or 74 and doesn't need to be drafted high. So that allows us to fill needs with our first 3 picks, and still get a starting RT and have VOllmer at LT, and be set for awhile.

Jordan may be going out of the Pats range, but Mike Mayock the best analyst around still has him going mid-late 1st even during practices. Obviously it's more top 10-20 but he still may slide to Pats you never know. Even if he doesn't. Robert Quinn -- Muhammed Wilkerson at #17 and #28 would be great.

Nalej
01-27-2011, 08:13 AM
A Quinn and Wilkerson haul would have been ejaculating all over screen

ElectricEye
01-27-2011, 09:05 AM
Shane said O'Dowd has played the best out of any of the centers in Mobile this week. Maybe that doesn't mean much, but take it for what it's worth.

Also, Brooks Reed is rapidly becoming my favorite prospect for us to draft that we won't this year.

sportslover
01-27-2011, 09:22 AM
I have been hearing O'Dowd is doing terrible. But I guess the best of the C's this week isn't a HUGE compliment, most of the better interior lineman this week are OG.

ElectricEye
01-27-2011, 09:25 AM
Technically sound, looks bad anchoring is the word from Scott and Shane. That does sort of cross him off our wish list. The rule I personally set for a center is to only draft one if we're absolutely sure they're an upgrade over Koppen.

But yeah, I really hope the Patriots change their tune and take a look at Reed. He's going to be taken by a team that values athletic pass rushers much more and be an absolute stud though.

FlyingElvis
01-27-2011, 03:29 PM
"Texas A&M LB Von Miller looks like the real deal in any scheme. Hes 6-2 , 237 right now but should be able to get over 250. Hes by far the best player here and Im sure Bill Belichick could find a way to make use of his great pass rush. From what Im hearing, the Patriots learned a little bit by passing on Matthews, who didnt quite fit what they were looking for at the time. Theyd probably be more willing to take a physical risk this year."

The bolded part is very interesting if true . . .

source (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/)

ElectricEye
01-27-2011, 03:42 PM
I hope so. I'm not sure I would want Miller though. Give me Brooks Reed at the end of the first or start of the second over Miller .

Don Vito
01-27-2011, 03:50 PM
I would not be surprised at all to see us take Von Miller. He flat out knows how to get to the QB and our pass rush is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen, he may not be a typical Patriots OLB but he is an outstanding pass rusher and playmaker and that is what we need.

I'm on board for us taking Miller all the way.

ElectricEye
01-27-2011, 03:54 PM
Problem is he likely won't be around when we pick. That would require trading up. Are we OK with that?

Don Vito
01-27-2011, 03:56 PM
I doubt we would trade up, I just think we wouldn't pass him up if he somehow fell to us. If the price was right I would be willing to move up a little this year.

FlyingElvis
01-27-2011, 04:32 PM
I think the general idea is what's most intriguing. The game is so much faster these days - I just don't that the size requirements at OLB need to be so stringent.

My guess is that this particular writer is jumping on the ole rumor train and there's no way BB deviates from his plan.

proshoota25
01-27-2011, 05:24 PM
"Texas A&M LB Von Miller looks like the real deal in any scheme. Hes 6-2 , 237 right now but should be able to get over 250. Hes by far the best player here and Im sure Bill Belichick could find a way to make use of his great pass rush. From what Im hearing, the Patriots learned a little bit by passing on Matthews, who didnt quite fit what they were looking for at the time. Theyd probably be more willing to take a physical risk this year."

The bolded part is very interesting if true . . .

source (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/)

this is also coming from a guy who said ballard was taking reps at outside linebacker? hmmmmmmmmmmm

proshoota25
01-27-2011, 05:29 PM
Problem is he likely won't be around when we pick. That would require trading up. Are we OK with that?

i was apart of the group who orginally didnt want miller. i think ive changed my mind.... by some accounts, he didnt look too bad in coverage this week. decent coverage plus insane pass rushing skills and speed is much needed on our defense. id trade up for him, along with quinn of course

Nalej
01-27-2011, 05:36 PM
I would have an issue with trading up for Miller. But for Quinn, I'm okay with that

proshoota25
01-27-2011, 05:40 PM
Nalej, you might wanna change your 2nd round pick in your mock. After his performance this week, I dont think Love sniffs the second lol

ElectricEye
01-27-2011, 05:53 PM
Love sucks balls. Looked poor this week and Heyward decimated him in the Bowl game.

I really don't want any part in Miller to be honest with you. I think the bust factor for him is really, really high. Well, maybe not...but I could very easily see him come to the NFL and just be another guy.

Don Vito
01-27-2011, 07:08 PM
Love sucks balls. Looked poor this week and Heyward decimated him in the Bowl game.

I really don't want any part in Miller to be honest with you. I think the bust factor for him is really, really high. Well, maybe not...but I could very easily see him come to the NFL and just be another guy.

Love looked really good at times this year, but I personally wouldn't touch him until the third. He has a ton of talent and has some versatility but he is inconsistent, sometimes he looks like the baddest man on the field and other times he will get manhandled.

luckyjackaubrey
01-27-2011, 07:44 PM
I think the general idea is what's most intriguing. The game is so much faster these days - I just don't that the size requirements at OLB need to be so stringent.

My guess is that this particular writer is jumping on the ole rumor train and there's no way BB deviates from his plan.

This thought is dead on point!

Our coach has a reputation as an innovator. He has adapted as times have changed and the players and game with it. Our defense has become one that reacts more to what the opponent attempts to do and not one that attempts to dictate terms. While there are many great attributes to our philosophy of gameplanning weekly for each opponent we have run the same stuff for quite some time.

The game has changed, the players coming out of college have changed. It doesnt make a great deal of sense to trying to source players to fit in a system that is not run by the majority of the colleges that feed the league.

This year has the anomaly of many 5 technique lineman that will be impactful but normally we all sit here trying to figure out what prospect can make the move from his college position to our position of need.

If we remain stubborn and only select players who fit our measurables we will continue to miss out on impactful players. I think the coach needs to modify and balance what he wants to do with what is available to do it. He has a great reputation but our recent playoff performances tell a story of a team that needs to adapt in order to compete.

If Von Miller is the impact player available, then we (the coaching staff) need to be prepared to bring in a part that may require some adaptation on the part of the system. We pride ourselves on being flexible and able to many things in many ways. at some point being a "master of none" gets you to the dance, but home by 10 pm.

As far as traiding up, it has to be done. I have my opinions on for who, but I leave that to the man in charge. We have had an inordinant amount of top round picks in recent years. The current situation is not one of reloading a roster but putting one over the top. If we were a 7-9 team that was aging all these picks would be a god send but that is not who or where we are. We can be the Eagles and take the approach that sustaining a certain level of success for a long period of time is our goal. Or we can take advantage of what we have for a core and milk our present good fortune for all its worth. MOst of you are too young to remember anything other than good times in NE football lore but believe me, there will be rough times somewhere ahead of us. You may be moking drafts where we are picking top 5 and that will be the highlight of our hopes.

I hope to see BB make a plan, work a plan and leverage these picks in to the best people not the best value where we pickl. I would also like to see us adapt, change and be as dynamic on defense as we have become on offense.

proshoota25
01-27-2011, 09:27 PM
nice entry

ElectricEye
01-27-2011, 10:44 PM
Yeah, that was quality stuff.

nepg
01-27-2011, 10:47 PM
I thought the previous two posts were amazing contributions, as well. ;D

Nalej
01-27-2011, 11:36 PM
My mock is updated in my sig. I haven't been able to catch any footage of players this week.
I'm swamped with school... barely get enough time to spend time with my wife and son.

descendency
01-27-2011, 11:41 PM
O'Dowd will not hold up against a NT. He's no better than Koppen at this point.

edit: He just flat out cannot anchor.

Nalej
01-27-2011, 11:45 PM
Let him sit while our OL coach gets a year to teach him up before he takes the reins(or is it rains? ranes? No, I dont want to google it)

edit: I did drop him from a 2nd to a 3rd rd pick... **** it... I'll change it up a bit more...

sportslover
01-28-2011, 06:40 AM
If we wait to take Jabaal Sheard as our pass rusher I will be mad.

Right now I am seeing Quinn/Smith/Kerrigan at 17 or a trade up. WIlkerson at 28. OG at 33. CB/WR at 60 -- although I don't think BB views WR as a huge need.

luckyjackaubrey
01-28-2011, 07:08 AM
'although I don't think BB views WR as a huge need'

I agree with this. We have a team that already proved we can beat most teams with our passing game. Getting past the Jets and teams like the Ravens and Steelers is the next goal. We can do that offensively in one of two ways.

1. draft up for a WR talent that can challenge Revis and Cromartie talent for talent or add another facet to our attack that forces them to cover the whole field. If we had a back that could attack the edge a bit more their gameplan that beat us would be suspect. They kept clogging the middle of the field with safeties and LBs to take away the inside routes. A back with a good combo of size/ speed would have forced them to stop cheating and honor the run. BJGE gets you the 3-4 up the middle and Woody is shifty but his size is a limitation. Teams think "pass" when he is in the backfield and although he did some damage running the ball, he isn't that back that makes teams feel the need to honor the run and not cheat into pass coverage.

The early picks should be focused on the defensive front seven, specifically the edges, and the o-line.

Who is the mid round back who brings a size-speed combo (little more on the speed side) make up to the table that makes sense for us to target? I would be thinking high upside but a few question marks. Maybe someone who catches the ball well but not a great pass protector ( he's gotta have some flaws as a mid rounder, no?). With our multiple TE looks we can cover some poor blocking skills by keeping Gronk in on occasion.

I like the idea of adding a backfield weapon that adds another area of the field to worry about and takes focus off of our downfield game. What team can cover the whole field? Welker and Branch's outside possesion/RAC game, Gronk and Hernandez stretching the middle, one the kids running deep routes and a balanced three headed running game that goes inside and out? It won't be one guy providing the dynamic overall running attack but three guys that do three different things still needs to be accounted for in an overall game plan.

AntoinCD
01-28-2011, 07:15 AM
'although I don't think BB views WR as a huge need'

I agree with this. We have a team that already proved we can beat most teams with our passing game. Getting past the Jets and teams like the Ravens and Steelers is the next goal. We can do that offensively in one of two ways.

1. draft up for a WR talent that can challenge Revis and Cromartie talent for talent or add another facet to our attack that forces them to cover the whole field. If we had a back that could attack the edge a bit more their gameplan that beat us would be suspect. They kept clogging the middle of the field with safeties and LBs to take away the inside routes. A back with a good combo of size/ speed would have forced them to stop cheating and honor the run. BJGE gets you the 3-4 up the middle and Woody is shifty but his size is a limitation. Teams think "pass" when he is in the backfield and although he did some damage running the ball, he isn't that back that makes teams feel the need to honor the run and not cheat into pass coverage.

The early picks should be focused on the defensive front seven, specifically the edges, and the o-line.

Who is the mid round back who brings a size-speed combo (little more on the speed side) make up to the table that makes sense for us to target? I would be thinking high upside but a few question marks. Maybe someone who catches the ball well but not a great pass protector ( he's gotta have some flaws as a mid rounder, no?). With our multiple TE looks we can cover some poor blocking skills by keeping Gronk in on occasion.

I like the idea of adding a backfield weapon that adds another area of the field to worry about and takes focus off of our downfield game. What team can cover the whole field? Welker and Branch's outside possesion/RAC game, Gronk and Hernandez stretching the middle, one the kids running deep routes and a balanced three headed running game that goes inside and out? It won't be one guy providing the dynamic overall running attack but three guys that do three different things still needs to be accounted for in an overall game plan.

I would take Demarco Murray in the 3rd if he falls. His durablity is a question but he would be worth it in the 3rd or later. If he's gone I wouldn't mind Kendall Hunter either.

Razor
01-28-2011, 08:34 AM
I've been trying to figure out this year's running backs. It's clear that we need at least one, most likely two, RBs this offseason. Fred Taylor is most likely done, the same can be said for Sammy Morris (and maybe even Kevin Faulk). So there's a hole, but not as big as some might think. Lawfirm and Woody showed this year that they can carry the running game without much help which is nice, but it doesn't help if either of them gets injured. We won't spend a high draft pick on a RB, I'm pretty sure of that. But from the fourth and down I could see it happening. I'd rank the RBs from the fourth round like this (from a Patriots perspective):

Darren Evans & Dion Lewis (tie):
As EE has pointed out on more than one occasion, Evans had a great year in 2008 before tearing his ACL and sitting out in 2009. He bounced back this season, however, and should hear his name getting called in the late rounds. He has nice size and moves pretty well for a guy his size. Looks like a good fit here. As some of you might know I'm pretty high on Dion Lewis. He's the epitome of a Patriot: He could barely get a scholarship, was deemed to slow, etc etc. He has a chip on his shoulder and it won't go away any time soon. He might not have great long speed, but he does have a very good burst, good hands and excellent vision. I think both these guy could start in the NFL.

Jackquizz Rodgers:
Sort of like Dion Lewis, he just doesn't have the same upside imo. Both of them remind me a bit of Ray Rice though. He's a late round pick right now I think and might never be a starter. However, he runs pretty hard for a guy his size and catches the ball well.

Bilal Powell & Delone Carter:
Both have good size and adequate speed. I am a bit worried about both of them though despite not having any reason for it. Right now I see both of them as nice depth players but not as someone I'd feel comfortable starting.

Damien Berry & Roy Helu Jr.:
Berry is a better runner than given credit for. He doesn't have the speed that Graig Cooper has, but he consistently gets good yards on his runs. I would compare him to Lawfirm actually. Not special in any way but very consistent. Roy Helu has nice size and I was actually surprised with his speed. I could see him finding a role in the NFL although he might not be a starter.

I don't think that all these players are destined to end up starters/stars in the NFL, but I do think most of them have the ability to develop into a starter. All of them fits into the system too. All we need is for BB to pull the trigger.

nepg
01-28-2011, 11:17 AM
Anthony Allen would fit in really well with The Law Firm and Woodhead. He can do everything. Could be like Sammy Morris when Sammy was producing for the Pats.

ElectricEye
01-28-2011, 12:13 PM
Anthony Allen is the the type of oversized runningback we like to run out as a FB. I agree there. With Sammy Morris no longer being the ball carrier he is, I wouldn't mind taking a look at him in the later rounds. I really wanted to see him pass protect better than he did this week in Mobile though. Didn't look entirely comfortable doing it and obviously that's a real problem in this offense. Good burst and leg drive, but he runs high. Not a real problem, but something to note.

I've been a big fan of Roy Helu for a long time as well. Really underrated athlete. Showed a lot better ability breaking tackles this week and was really one of the conversation pieces of the entire Senior Bowl. His stock is rising and rightfully so.

Taiwan Jones is a guy I have some real interest in out of Eastern Washington as well. He accelerates faster than anyone perhaps and has fantastic long speed. Not a tough between the tackles runner at the next level, but people said the same thing about Chris Johnson. He's more than willing to go inside, it's just a matter of if he can sustain that level of success in the NFL.

Shane Vereen is flying waaaay too high under the radar right now and I hope it stays that way because if he's there in the third round I'll rage if we don't take him. Very fast, very quick and he's one of those Cal backs who has received great coaching. Knows how to pass protect, knows how to catch the ball. Really good technical runner.

sportslover
01-29-2011, 10:26 AM
#17 - Aldon Smith, OLB, Missouri --
#28 - Muhammed Willkerson, DE, Temple --
#33 - Mike Pouncey, C, Florda --
#60 - Mark Herzlich, LB, Boston College --
#74 - Ahmad Black, S, Florida --
#92 - Jalil Brown, CB, Colorado --
4th Round - Niles Paul, WR, Nebraska --
5th Round - Delone Carter, RB, Syracuse --
6th Round - Scott Lutrus, LB, Connecticut --

Did a new mock draft to gauge a realistic draft for the Patriots and I think this is a fair draft that is real possible and addresses all of our needs and pretty well.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 10:27 AM
That would be a very nice draft, but I'm not so sure Wilkerson is a good value in the first round.

sportslover
01-29-2011, 10:29 AM
I love that draft so much because I think it helps us in the secondary alot and for not top picks. As those guys will be great in the pros for 3rd round picks.

Herzlich as time goes on will develop into 3/4 of his old self he will be a very solid pro, the kid was sick before cancer. Pouncey is another Florida kid who helps our interior line.

Wilkerson and Smith target our 2 biggest needs in the 1st. May be raw and bad picks but the idea is there that we should go DE and OLB with our first 2 picks.

AntoinCD
01-29-2011, 02:10 PM
I love that draft so much because I think it helps us in the secondary alot and for not top picks. As those guys will be great in the pros for 3rd round picks.

Herzlich as time goes on will develop into 3/4 of his old self he will be a very solid pro, the kid was sick before cancer. Pouncey is another Florida kid who helps our interior line.

Wilkerson and Smith target our 2 biggest needs in the 1st. May be raw and bad picks but the idea is there that we should go DE and OLB with our first 2 picks.

I like the draft and all but Im really not sold on the Herzlich pick. Really he's not a great fit at OLB in the 34 and Im not sure how much, if any an upgrade he would be on what we already have at ILB. Swap Herzlich with someone like Marcus Gilbert and I like it though. Although just nitpicking but I prefer Rashad Carmichael to Jalil Brown.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 02:14 PM
Herzlich in a text book 3-4 ILB. More than capable of coming on the blitz, excellent in coverage, good against the run. Complete linebacker. Has the size and ability to do it too. So long as we hit on a pass rusher first, no complaints from me. Herzy is more than capable of playing outside in situations that call for it too.

AntoinCD
01-29-2011, 02:22 PM
Herzlich in a text book 3-4 ILB. More than capable of coming on the blitz, excellent in coverage, good against the run. Complete linebacker. Has the size and ability to do it too. So long as we hit on a pass rusher first, no complaints from me. Herzy is more than capable of playing outside in situations that call for it too.

My worry is though, where are his snaps coming from, and at who's expense? Mayo and Spikes look good inside and if we hit on a pass rusher early then we would have that player and Cunningham outside. He's a good player, potential for being a great player and a nice story but realistically I wouldn't take him before the fourth due to lack of need, and by that time he will be long gone.

If we hit on a pass rusher then I would prefer we go DE, OG/C, OT, WR and RB. Unless a player of real value starts falling I wouldn't go off that list. And where he is now, Herzlich is not a great value in the second round IMO

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 02:25 PM
I do agree with that. I would just love to see him here. Think he's an awfully good scheme fit too with his versatility.

Matthew Jones
01-29-2011, 02:29 PM
Herzlich in a text book 3-4 ILB. More than capable of coming on the blitz, excellent in coverage, good against the run. Complete linebacker. Has the size and ability to do it too. So long as we hit on a pass rusher first, no complaints from me. Herzy is more than capable of playing outside in situations that call for it too.

A textbook 3-4 ILB on a team with Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes at ILB? That'd be a mistake IMO. I think in our defense Herzlich would project as a somewhat better version of Rob Ninkovich but not the impact pass rusher we need. I love Mark and wish him success wherever he goes, but I don't think it's really the right pick for New England, regardless of whether or not he's the perfect Patriot.

AntoinCD
01-29-2011, 02:30 PM
I do agree with that. I would just love to see him here. Think he's an awfully good scheme fit too with his versatility.

It seems almost too good a fit. Went to college locally, already done work with Tedy Bruschi, smart, blue collar worker, great schematic fit and a great back story. Seems like a Patriot on paper. But at the minute I don't think BB could justify the selection unless he fell further than expected. I really hope the guy succeeds though...unless he goes to the Jets, then screw him if he does lol

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 02:45 PM
I don't think finding snaps would be as large of a problem as one might think. Cunningham, Ninkovich, and Spikes really aren't as complete as Herzlich is. With as much subbing in and out as we do and the many sub-packages we have, it's doable.

nepg
01-29-2011, 02:58 PM
He'd be a 2-down ILB and a nickel OLB - my best guess.

sportslover
01-29-2011, 03:33 PM
Just cause you have 4 other great LB's doesn't mean they are the only ones that play.

Spikes, Guyton, Fletcher, Mayo, Cunningham, Ninkovich, Banta-Cain are guys that played at LB and I probably missed someone. But the point is you constantsly have guys going in and out.

Spikes, Guyton, Fletcher, Mayo, Cunningham, Ninkovich, Smith, Herzlich would give us great LB corps, along with great ST contributions in there. Great work ethic, and make our front seven set for years, if we improve our DLine also. I don't see what's wrong with using a late 2nd round pick on a guy that had top 10 talent, and lost a step or two cause of a serious illness. He has great work ethic and character and if he goes back to 3/4 that skill he had. He will still be a great player for years.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Brooks Reed is exactly the kind of guy we pass on but shouldn't. I really, REALLY like this guys game at the next level in a 3-4. He's going to be able to get after the passer.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 03:37 PM
wow hankerson is really impressing. hes the type of receiver we need i believe. we may have to grab him at the end of the first.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 03:38 PM
Panthers pick would be better for my palette.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 03:43 PM
ive been saying this all week for the pats hankerson >>>>>>> titus young in terms of fit.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 03:43 PM
Absolutely. Speed is nice, but I much prefer a guy who can challenge good man coverage and beat the press for us right now.

proshoota25
01-29-2011, 03:45 PM
Absolutely. Speed is nice, but I much prefer a guy who can challenge good man coverage and beat the press for us right now.

right alot of the pats fans have been saying young. i dont see it. young is like all of our other receivers. hankerson is physical, strong, and is much taller with deceptive speed.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 03:46 PM
Plays much bigger than the 6'2 ish he is too. Very good all around receiver.

RaiderNation
01-29-2011, 03:49 PM
With Mankins all but gone now, I think Pouncey at 28 to you guys is a lock unless the Steelers trade up