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$KidCowboy$
03-17-2007, 10:22 AM
Houston in the first..Amazing
Crosby in the second..excuse me while i puke all over my computer.

i will lose all hope in the cowboys if we actually waste a second round pick on a kicker.
seriously.

TNewFan41
03-17-2007, 10:46 AM
It won't happen, don't worry.

But Houston, HELL YEA!

bigmac076
03-17-2007, 10:49 AM
I dont see the big deal. Special Teams is as important as Offense and Defense, if you've ever played you'd know that. But you guys have been doing this way longer than Scott though am I right? I like the pick just becuase I can't stand Gramatica, hes not the answer.

Staubach12
03-17-2007, 11:04 AM
Meh. I wouldn't exacty love this draft. Houston is OK, and Crosby is alright. The only pick I really like is Hill. I just don't see us moving Henry, so... meh.

Paul
03-17-2007, 12:51 PM
I don't like it at all. I've been satanically agianst a CB in the 1st round for awhile. And the Mason Crosby pick is just unlikely since Jerry would never do it and we just resigned Grammatica. Allison > Jason Hill IMO.

$KidCowboy$
03-17-2007, 01:37 PM
I dont see the big deal. Special Teams is as important as Offense and Defense, if you've ever played you'd know that. But you guys have been doing this way longer than Scott though am I right? I like the pick just becuase I can't stand Gramatica, hes not the answer.

haha if i ever played?
im gonna be playing college football in 2 years..i play...

you can find a kicker outside of the first day of the draft. pretty much all kickers other than like nugent and janakowski havent been high picks

itd be a waste of a pick

Macarthur
03-17-2007, 01:46 PM
I would rather have an OL in the 2nd like Marten from BC.

KILLERSANTA
03-17-2007, 03:41 PM
Jones has already said dallas would never sign or draft a big name kicker again..that pick won't happen.................

leroyisgod
03-17-2007, 03:47 PM
It won't happen, don't worry.

But Houston, HELL YEA!

I thought you were opposed to a CB in round 1.

bigmac076
03-17-2007, 04:03 PM
Houston in the first..Amazing
Crosby in the second..excuse me while i puke all over my computer.

i will lose all hope in the cowboys if we actually waste a second round pick on a kicker.
seriously.

It won't happen, don't worry.

But Houston, HELL YEA!

I don't like it at all. I've been satanically agianst a CB in the 1st round for awhile. And the Mason Crosby pick is just unlikely since Jerry would never do it and we just resigned Grammatica. Allison > Jason Hill IMO.
why dony any of you have the guts to go on Scott's thread and tell him what you think? Besides TNewFan, who somehow now likes a CB in the first, but alas, won't let Scott know what he thinks of Crosby.

reigle9
03-17-2007, 04:36 PM
why dony any of you have the guts to go on Scott's thread and tell him what you think? Besides TNewFan, who somehow now likes a CB in the first, but alas, won't let Scott know what he thinks of Crosby.
I did.

I said the punter was the MVP for PSU in 2004, so there goes the not appreciating ST argument. Now he's leaving and I think it's a bigger loss than Puz.

Next? The pick is horrid.

TNewFan41
03-17-2007, 04:40 PM
I don't like it at all. I've been satanically agianst a CB in the 1st round for awhile. And the Mason Crosby pick is just unlikely since Jerry would never do it and we just resigned Grammatica. Allison > Jason Hill IMO.

I agree 100%, but if we did get a CB, I would only won't Houston.

Anyway, you guys can want a stable kicker all you want, we are not drafting a kicker, let alone in the first day. Are you serious? its a kicker.

Oh and we aren't moving Henry so CB is just ehhh.

Burns336
03-17-2007, 07:25 PM
I agree 100%, but if we did get a CB, I would only won't Houston.

Anyway, you guys can want a stable kicker all you want, we are not drafting a kicker, let alone in the first day. Are you serious? its a kicker.

Oh and we aren't moving Henry so CB is just ehhh.

have i told you i hate you lately?

Paul
03-17-2007, 07:27 PM
why dony any of you have the guts to go on Scott's thread and tell him what you think? Besides TNewFan, who somehow now likes a CB in the first, but alas, won't let Scott know what he thinks of Crosby.

What the hell is your deal? What does it matter if we tell him or not? AM I less of a man if I don't? And if you want to call us out like that, I'll tell you in the past I have written in his mock threads telling him of my dissatisfaction with his picks of Levi Brown and others, and also defended Colombo when Scott stated he was the worst lineman on our team. So don't come at me like I'm scared of some scout online :rolleyes:. Some of us have other things to do on a Saturday, so one post here in the Cowboys thread about the mock maybe enough.

TNewFan41
03-17-2007, 07:40 PM
have i told you i hate you lately?

LMFAO. Honestly, what do I do? just what do I do? I have said like 2 words to you in my entire life Burns, and yet you still hate me. THis is freakin hilarious. Why? Because I said we shouldn't take a kicker in the 2nd round??!?!!?!? Hello, it is an f'in kicker?

LMAO. I don't do anything, and I get hated on, w/e.

This is an online draft site so it doesn't really matter, but it is funny.

TNewFan41
03-17-2007, 07:41 PM
It Is A Freakin Kicker!!!!!!

Why Would You Want A Kicker In The 2nd Round?!?!?!

Answer Me That Bigmac.

Im_a_Romosexual
03-17-2007, 08:38 PM
Im not Bigmac but we'd draft one that early because its an improvement of what we have. I dont want to draft a kicker, but we may never have a good kicker if we dont draft one. Jerry wont sign a good FA because of Vanderjerk.

shane_man
03-17-2007, 08:57 PM
Im not Bigmac but we'd draft one that early because its an improvement of what we have. I dont want to draft a kicker, but we may never have a good kicker if we dont draft one. Jerry wont sign a good FA because of Vanderjerk.
Unless this guy guarantees 30 Field goals a season and 100% extra points... Using a draft pick on a kicker makes very little sense. This guy would have to be the Dan Marino of kickers for me to consider anything above a fourth on a kicker.

Its not and has never been that big a position of need(even when we had cuntwhiff...

leroyisgod
03-17-2007, 09:15 PM
I agree 100%, but if we did get a CB, I would only won't Houston.

I'm in love with Houston and would love to see us draft him as well. I think you and I actually see eye to eye on something.

Houston is big, fast and physical. Granted he takes chances from time to time and gets burnt, but that can be cured with good coaching.

bantx
03-17-2007, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by bigmac076 View Post
why dony any of you have the guts to go on Scott's thread and tell him what you think? Besides TNewFan, who somehow now likes a CB in the first, but alas, won't let Scott know what he thinks of Crosby.

What the hell is your deal? What does it matter if we tell him or not? AM I less of a man if I don't? And if you want to call us out like that, I'll tell you in the past I have written in his mock threads telling him of my dissatisfaction with his picks of Levi Brown and others, and also defended Colombo when Scott stated he was the worst lineman on our team. So don't come at me like I'm scared of some scout online :rolleyes:. Some of us have other things to do on a Saturday, so one post here in the Cowboys thread about the mock maybe enough.

owned. lol

bigmac076
03-17-2007, 10:21 PM
It Is A Freakin Kicker!!!!!!

Why Would You Want A Kicker In The 2nd Round?!?!?!

Answer Me That Bigmac.
Because our most pressing need is Secondary and he addressed that in the 1st round. After that we have lots of flexibility. And like I have said before, I dont believe in Gramatica. So its fine with me if we go Crosby in the 2nd. Think what you want mang.

bigmac076
03-17-2007, 10:23 PM
What the hell is your deal? What does it matter if we tell him or not? AM I less of a man if I don't? And if you want to call us out like that, I'll tell you in the past I have written in his mock threads telling him of my dissatisfaction with his picks of Levi Brown and others, and also defended Colombo when Scott stated he was the worst lineman on our team. So don't come at me like I'm scared of some scout online :rolleyes:. Some of us have other things to do on a Saturday, so one post here in the Cowboys thread about the mock maybe enough.
you're right Paul, Im wrong. I have been owned, as bantx would put it. I was really hoping to get 'pwned' instead though. Ah well

...maybe someday.

jetBLACK08
03-17-2007, 11:50 PM
LOL to all the people underappreciating the value of a solid kicker...


ASK YOUR SELF THIS.

How many games have we lost because of a kicker?

shane_man
03-18-2007, 03:55 AM
LOL to all the people underappreciating the value of a solid kicker...


ASK YOUR SELF THIS.

How many games have we lost because of a kicker?

Less then the year previously... But here... Ill try and make my point...

How many kickers currently in the NFL were taken in the before the fourth round... I can only think of two off the top of my head... Mike Nugent who had an OK year... But it was guaranteed field goals everytime he stepped up... And Janikowski...(i think he was picked before the 4th)... Whos only claim to fame is a big fucken boot.

Every Dallas fan on the planet wants a kicker we can rely on. But ill take my chances with some guy off the street rather then a 2nd round pick over a more important position to the team.(If we improve the offence enough we should need the kicker only for extra points)

TNewFan41
03-18-2007, 07:25 AM
Let me clearify, I don't want a CB in round 1, but if we had to pick one, I want houston, because he is the only good one in this draft. Hall is just ehhh, don't give me that 4.39 crap, on the field he is slow as hell, Revis is meh, he is SLOW too, and Ross is nothing special IMO. McCauley is probably the most talented CB in this class, but he needs to get his act together on the field. If we pick a CB I want either Houston in the 1st, McCauley in a trade down, or Jonathan Wade in the 3rd-4th. Thats it.

Oh and 1 more thing, ITS A KICKER!!!! YOu can draft medlock in the 5th if that makes you happy.

Anyway, what don't you guys get that Jerry won't draft a kicker. There is absolutely 0% chance we draft a kicker, let alone on the first day. It doesn't matter what Scott thinks, we aren't drafting a kicker.

jetBLACK08
03-18-2007, 09:04 AM
Less then the year previously... But here... Ill try and make my point...

How many kickers currently in the NFL were taken in the before the fourth round... I can only think of two off the top of my head... Mike Nugent who had an OK year... But it was guaranteed field goals everytime he stepped up... And Janikowski...(i think he was picked before the 4th)... Whos only claim to fame is a big fucken boot.

Every Dallas fan on the planet wants a kicker we can rely on. But ill take my chances with some guy off the street rather then a 2nd round pick over a more important position to the team.(If we improve the offence enough we should need the kicker only for extra points)

Would you resign Jose Cortez? He probably could be some guy off the street. Or, Would you take Cundiff o wait how about Suisham? Suisham, yea that rookie we got from the free agency? How did Suisham do? How about Vanderchoke? Gramatica is less than perfect you know. He misses some from decent distance. The Cowboys have had this problem for 2 years now, I just want it fixed. I don't want to give the kicking rights to a random nobody.

Ward
03-18-2007, 11:14 AM
Yeah Janikowski was actually a 1st rounder.

TNewFan41
03-18-2007, 12:14 PM
OMG who cares?!?!?!

IT IS A KICKER. Get mdelcok in the 5th if you want one so bad.

And what don't you guys get about Jerry saying we WILL NOT DRAFT A KICKER, NO MATTER WHAT. There is absolutely NO CHANCE, so we should just drop it.

jetBLACK08
03-18-2007, 12:24 PM
A kicker in 2nd>?! omg tthats blasphemy
Im not trying to push for Crosby in the 2nd.
Im trying to help you all see the how important a solid kicker is to a playoff contention team.

shane_man
03-18-2007, 03:09 PM
A kicker in 2nd>?! omg tthats blasphemy
Im not trying to push for Crosby in the 2nd.
Im trying to help you all see the how important a solid kicker is to a playoff contention team.

If only Nugent and Janikowski are the only kickers in the league taken before the fourth round... That means 11 teams in the playoffs last year didnt have to draft a kicker in the second round to get where they were...

I want a reliable kicker as much as the next guy but its not a DAY ONE draftable need. And never has been...

TNewFan41
03-18-2007, 03:30 PM
If only Nugent and Janikowski are the only kickers in the league taken before the fourth round... That means 11 teams in the playoffs last year didnt have to draft a kicker in the second round to get where they were...

I want a reliable kicker as much as the next guy but its not a DAY ONE draftable need. And never has been...

And never will be.......

IT IS A KICTER!!!!!!

bigmac076
03-18-2007, 03:48 PM
OMG who cares?!?!?!

IT IS A KICKER. Get mdelcok in the 5th if you want one so bad.

And what don't you guys get about Jerry saying we WILL NOT DRAFT A KICKER, NO MATTER WHAT. There is absolutely NO CHANCE, so we should just drop it.

its not just any kicker, It's our kicker.

TNewFan41
03-18-2007, 05:00 PM
BigMac, you honestly think thera is a chance we pick Crosby on the second round?

LMAO

Burns336
03-18-2007, 07:39 PM
LMFAO. Honestly, what do I do? just what do I do? I have said like 2 words to you in my entire life Burns, and yet you still hate me. THis is freakin hilarious. Why? Because I said we shouldn't take a kicker in the 2nd round??!?!!?!? Hello, it is an f'in kicker?

LMAO. I don't do anything, and I get hated on, w/e.

This is an online draft site so it doesn't really matter, but it is funny.

I didnt say anything about a kicker, although i wouldnt mind having one who can nail fg's from mid field and actually kick a few touch backs for a change. I just hate you because instead of providing facts, you pull things out of your as.s like "henry isnt moving to cb" -- ok lets analyze this example. Jerry brought up the idea, jerry also said he didnt want to do it if he didnt have to. To me, this means that there is a possibility of henry moving to safety. its not a definate yes or no either way. Wade phillips is our new head coach, and is a 3-4 guru who made marlon mcree and terrance kiel look like top tier safteys for SD. What if wade says "hey jerry i would rather have a speed rush guy, or a CB in round 1. I dont think we need to spend a pick on FS. with my blizting schemes i think i can cover up whatever problems watkins/henry/williams may have back there. The problem last year was that we didnt generate enough pressure with bill's defense and it forced the safetys to have to cover for too long. I can fix that"

well what then dipsh*t? anything is possible, so you can provide a statement, give some facts to support why you believe in that statement, and maybe some people will actually pay attention to what you say. Instead, all you do is post 40 times acting like they make or break a player and give out random tnew fan statements like they hold some sort of weight in the forum.

back to the kicker for a minute...arent you the homer claiming we have virtually no holes on this team? dont you think a team with no holes could afford to take a special kicker? i mean this team doesnt have any spots that need improvement, so why not stack it with a kicker? your dumb as.s arguments contridict themselves.

TNewFan41
03-19-2007, 11:59 AM
We have no holes starting, but we need depth. We could use a future NT< a FS, and a young WR way before a kicker.

DMWSackMachine
03-19-2007, 01:46 PM
I didnt say anything about a kicker, although i wouldnt mind having one who can nail fg's from mid field and actually kick a few touch backs for a change. I just hate you because instead of providing facts, you pull things out of your as.s like "henry isnt moving to cb" -- ok lets analyze this example. Jerry brought up the idea, jerry also said he didnt want to do it if he didnt have to. To me, this means that there is a possibility of henry moving to safety. its not a definate yes or no either way. Wade phillips is our new head coach, and is a 3-4 guru who made marlon mcree and terrance kiel look like top tier safteys for SD. What if wade says "hey jerry i would rather have a speed rush guy, or a CB in round 1. I dont think we need to spend a pick on FS. with my blizting schemes i think i can cover up whatever problems watkins/henry/williams may have back there. The problem last year was that we didnt generate enough pressure with bill's defense and it forced the safetys to have to cover for too long. I can fix that"

well what then dipsh*t? anything is possible, so you can provide a statement, give some facts to support why you believe in that statement, and maybe some people will actually pay attention to what you say. Instead, all you do is post 40 times acting like they make or break a player and give out random tnew fan statements like they hold some sort of weight in the forum.

back to the kicker for a minute...arent you the homer claiming we have virtually no holes on this team? dont you think a team with no holes could afford to take a special kicker? i mean this team doesnt have any spots that need improvement, so why not stack it with a kicker? your dumb as.s arguments contridict themselves.


Excellent points, all. I don't understand why he doesn't at least try to act with some semblence of maturity and reason. *sigh*

Anyway, the Crosby pick is horrid, though. Sometimes I wonder if Scott simply doesn't have time to research this type of thing in enough depth, because he seems to be way off on team needs most of the time. You would think it would be important enough to him that he would make the effort to get it right, but it never changes. It's like his ridiculous assertions about Colombo being the worst starter in the entire league. Just stupid.

We will never draft a kicker in the first day as long as Jerry Jones is running this team. I don't care if a freak mutant that could make 80 yard field goals came along and miraculously fell to the 3rd round, we still wouldn't take him. It's just not going to happen. Jerry has gotten along just fine, winning 3 super bowls with FA PKs off the street for his entire time here. He had never spent significant resources to acquire one in his life, until after the 2005 season when we had as bad a season as any team will ever have with the FG kicker. It literally doesn't get any worse than what we went through that season. So, Jerry decides to go out and bite the bullet on a "sure thing", by acquiring--statistically speaking--the best FG kicker in the history of the league. We all know how that turned out. Jerry WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. He has been very, very, very clear that the PK position is "too unstable" to be worth risking a large investment in it. Case closed, end of story.

The sad part is the fact that Scott doesn't know this. It's not exactly "insider information". Anyone with a passable knowledge of the team could tell you ass much, yet somehow he doesn't know? Very dissapointing, imo.

People were trying to remember all the 1st day PK in the league right now, and they missed at least one. The Chargers used an early 3rd on Nate Kaeding as part of the Philip Rivers/Eli Manning trade. And, interestingly enough, in his rookie season he cost them a game, missing TWO kicks that could have put it away for them. Just another illustration of the fact that there are no guarantees just because you get a highly regarded prospect.

That said, I could live with Houston in the 1st, though it would definitely not be my preference. I really like the Hill pick in the 3rd, but I doubt he will fall that far. Overall, I would expect more out of Scott....but given my experience with how he projected us last season, it shouldn't really surprise me.

robert_in_bigd
03-19-2007, 03:11 PM
Don't like Scott's Cowboy mocks. Something is missing. The picks seem made in a vacuum and in reaction to ESPN-talk.

TNewFan41
03-19-2007, 05:18 PM
Don't like Scott's Cowboy mocks. Something is missing. The picks seem made in a vacuum and in reaction to ESPN-talk.

I agree. It is just a CB, which we don't need, then a freakin kicker, enough said, and a good #2 WR at best. We need O-Line and NT depth way before that junk. Scott really needs to do some homework on the Cowboys.

bigmac076
03-19-2007, 05:29 PM
I agree. It is just a CB, which we don't need, then a freakin kicker, enough said, and a good #2 WR at best. We need O-Line and NT depth way before that junk. Scott really needs to do some homework on the Cowboys.
I think he should hire you as his personal Cowboys consultant.

Burns336
03-19-2007, 06:21 PM
its probably hard to keep up with each and every one of the professional teams as well as "scout" all of these guys for the upcoming draft. I just think that PK was one of the biggest stories for the boys last year and he is trying to adress that. IMO parcells had alot to do with our kicking woes, the way he handled kickers put way more pressure on them than they needed to have. As a kicker, you already have all eyes on you, the last thing you need is Bill Parcells looking you up and down knowing that he had about a 3 week turnover rate for kickers.

You guys also have to remember that scott doesnt have time to go back and watch game film of every team. We are all cowobys fanatics and we put them under a microscope, so we were able to watch columbo's progression as well as get a feel for players like burnett, miles austin, sam hurd, and other back ups. I think he just gets a chance to scrape the surface of each team and has to go by that.

either way, im starting to face the reality of no nelson on this team and am thinking we need a CB in the first and try to make a move for tyler in the second. A NT upgrade can cover up alot of the flaws we have in the secondary and regardless of whether or not we move henry to FS (which we prob should because he is only getting slower) we need a good starter opposite of Newman. Glenn is old and on the way out and ive never been a fan of henry with over the top help from watkins/williams....

TNewFan41
03-19-2007, 06:46 PM
either way, im starting to face the reality of no nelson on this team and am thinking we need a CB in the first and try to make a move for tyler in the second. A NT upgrade can cover up alot of the flaws we have in the secondary and regardless of whether or not we move henry to FS (which we prob should because he is only getting slower) we need a good starter opposite of Newman. Glenn is old and on the way out and ive never been a fan of henry with over the top help from watkins/williams....

I agree 100%, as long as its Houston :).

shane_man
03-19-2007, 06:51 PM
I agree. It is just a CB, which we don't need, then a freakin kicker, enough said, and a good #2 WR at best. We need O-Line and NT depth way before that junk. Scott really needs to do some homework on the Cowboys.

Just for the sake of pointing this out... Corner Back while not a DIRECT NEED at the moment has to be looked at at some point. Terrence Newman will be around until the end of time so thats one position locked up. But Glenn will be retiring in a year or two(could even move to Houston this year unless that rumour was debunked) we have Henry who has been injured twice in the last two season i believe and behind that Nate Jones and Jacques Reeves(who were awful when they played two season ago)

Maybe CB isnt a first round need this year. But what other position is on this Dallas Cowboys team? By the time our pick gets around(and correct me if im wrong) But the BPA at that point should probably be Cornerback right? So instead of mortgaging our future on trading up to get a safety... Or reaching for a NT(Ill comment on that in a second) why dont we look towards our future with a view to depth THIS YEAR...?

Now as for the NT issue. I personally think its our greatest need(although I dont think its as big of a problem if whats been said about Phillip's play is true)... But we still need to look toward it. HOWEVER... I just want to point out that our starting NT is a former 6th round pick. Now I dont know how Phillips drafts. And i dont know how especially skilled you have to be to play NT in Phillip's 3-4... But if the position is essentially there just to take two guys off the offensive line... We should just be looking for the biggest bloke on the planet. Not so much a playmaker as much as a worker. Again if im wrong fair enough but workers can still be had in later rounds...


shane_man's mock would see me looking at WR/CB in the first round... followed by LB/DE help in the second.

Any big 3-4 DE's in the draft this year?

YEP...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/adamcarriker.html

Definately give him a look...

TNewFan41
03-19-2007, 07:05 PM
DId I not just say if it is Houston I am fine with a CB?

Thank you. If we get a CB, and a NT, and move Henry to FS I am fine with it, because we now have another good CB, and a NT to get pentration.

robert_in_bigd
03-19-2007, 08:27 PM
Rather than pick CB at 22 (a good value pick at 22) I think trade down into a FS/CB Tweener with an extra third is much better. A guy that can play FS and dime CB is more of value than a pure corner.

Best example in the league right now is a Marlin Jackson (Indy) type player. Drafted as a CB but his future is at FS.

Other than Meriweather another guy who could be there in this mold (but even later 2nd or early third) is Tanard Jackson from Syracuse.

mtmock
03-19-2007, 09:41 PM
we should take the best available defensive player...period :)

LSUALUM99
03-19-2007, 09:43 PM
Rather than pick CB at 22 (a good value pick at 22) I think trade down into a FS/CB Tweener with an extra third is much better. A guy that can play FS and dime CB is more of value than a pure corner.

Best example in the league right now is a Marlin Jackson (Indy) type player. Drafted as a CB but his future is at FS.

Other than Meriweather another guy who could be there in this mold (but even later 2nd or early third) is Tanard Jackson from Syracuse.


That's essentially the whole issue.

The value at #22 will most likely be at CB. So, if you say 'who do we pick at 22' you almost have to say CB makes the most sense. However, if we can trade down, then other positions make alot of sense too.

I personally like the idea of moving down 5-8 spots to pick up third if we can get that.

Burns336
03-19-2007, 11:56 PM
Rather than pick CB at 22 (a good value pick at 22) I think trade down into a FS/CB Tweener with an extra third is much better. A guy that can play FS and dime CB is more of value than a pure corner.

Best example in the league right now is a Marlin Jackson (Indy) type player. Drafted as a CB but his future is at FS.

Other than Meriweather another guy who could be there in this mold (but even later 2nd or early third) is Tanard Jackson from Syracuse.


I dont know about the idea of a tweener, id feel alot better about having a pure corner rather than someone who is only going to pan out to be mediocre. That being said, if we trade down, that may be where the value is at.

DMWSackMachine
03-20-2007, 12:08 PM
I don't know what you guys are smoking, but it seems to me like the best value is almost certainly going to be at WR or DE/OLB by the time we pick. Those two positions are the two strongest in the draft, and as a result we will likely get a chance at a early-mid first round talent with our pick. I really, really like Meachem. He reminds me a lot of Alvin Harper, right down to the Tennessee connection. I love him. Not only that, but Dwayne Jarrett should also be there, and there is an outside chance at Ted Ginn falling to us. At DE we have Jarvis Moss, Spencer, and Johnson and a couple of others that might be there for us. Those would be the best values. I think CB value is to be found in the early-to mid 2nd round this year. There's just not a lot available at the top.

robert_in_bigd
03-20-2007, 12:46 PM
I don't know what you guys are smoking, but it seems to me like the best value is almost certainly going to be at WR or DE/OLB by the time we pick. Those two positions are the two strongest in the draft, and as a result we will likely get a chance at a early-mid first round talent with our pick. I really, really like Meachem. He reminds me a lot of Alvin Harper, right down to the Tennessee connection. I love him. Not only that, but Dwayne Jarrett should also be there, and there is an outside chance at Ted Ginn falling to us. At DE we have Jarvis Moss, Spencer, and Johnson and a couple of others that might be there for us. Those would be the best values. I think CB value is to be found in the early-to mid 2nd round this year. There's just not a lot available at the top.


Draft is deep in a few places including OLB and WR. DB and OG come to mind.

I would assume if it is deep in these spots then there will be players to choose from later in the draft -- rounds 2 - 5.

For this reason, I think unless a stud falls into your lap (Okoye, Lynch, Brown as possibles and Nelson, Branch as unlikeyly) you trade down to a team that needs starters and not depth. Houston comes to mind. Arizona comes to mind. Minnesota come to mind.

For example, would not Minnesota want to go Quinn with the early pick then trade 2nd and 3rd to Dallas for a chance to get a Dwayne Jarrett, Robert Meachem or Ted Ginn in the first?

Williamson has been a dud but they really need WR help and need it ASAP. Hell they could use an Olsen too at 22.

None of the top tier receivers will last to MN's early second.

Im_a_Romosexual
03-20-2007, 01:00 PM
I don't know what you guys are smoking, but it seems to me like the best value is almost certainly going to be at WR or DE/OLB by the time we pick. Those two positions are the two strongest in the draft, and as a result we will likely get a chance at a early-mid first round talent with our pick. I really, really like Meachem. He reminds me a lot of Alvin Harper, right down to the Tennessee connection. I love him. Not only that, but Dwayne Jarrett should also be there, and there is an outside chance at Ted Ginn falling to us. At DE we have Jarvis Moss, Spencer, and Johnson and a couple of others that might be there for us. Those would be the best values. I think CB value is to be found in the early-to mid 2nd round this year. There's just not a lot available at the top.

I agree WR is going to be of value, but do you really see us using another first on as DE/OLB after drafting Ware,Carpenter, and Burnett along with having Ellis. I'm sure this position will be adressed sometime in this draft becase I dont think ellis will be the same. CB would have good value with Ross,Houston and possibly Revis as possibilities

TNewFan41
03-20-2007, 01:43 PM
I agree with DMWSackMachine. There is a plethra of solid CBs, maybe good #1's at the next level, but no really elite players. Leon Hall is just blah, Revis is good, but he is slow on the field, i don't care about his 4.3 at his pro-day, and Aaron Ross is more of a FS IMO. There are 2 players with potential to be great, and that is McCauley and Houston. But I just don't think we need a CB in the first round. If you want to draft someone to be a future #2 for a henry, or a #2 right away, just get one in the 3rd or 4th, certainly not the 1st. Maybe Jonathan Wade. All be it Newman is turning 29 right before the season starts, but he has that #1 spot locked up for atleast 5 more years, which means you don't draft a CB in round 1 for atleast 3 more years. WR is the value at 22. I don't want WR to turn into a problem like QB was for us when Aikman left. Don't give me that Miles Austin, Sam Hurd, Jamaica Rector crap, they are UFA's. Draft our future #1 now while Glenn and Owens are still good. This team has barely any holes, so we should get our future WR now before it is to late.

robert_in_bigd
03-20-2007, 01:44 PM
OT: If Ted Ginn does not work-out on his pro-day do you think he is doing himself a favor?

Does he not run the risk of being labeled "fragile."

Burns336
03-20-2007, 02:17 PM
I agree with DMWSackMachine. There is a plethra of solid CBs, maybe good #1's at the next level, but no really elite players. Leon Hall is just blah, Revis is good, but he is slow on the field, i don't care about his 4.3 at his pro-day, and Aaron Ross is more of a FS IMO. There are 2 players with potential to be great, and that is McCauley and Houston. But I just don't think we need a CB in the first round. If you want to draft someone to be a future #2 for a henry, or a #2 right away, just get one in the 3rd or 4th, certainly not the 1st. Maybe Jonathan Wade. All be it Newman is turning 29 right before the season starts, but he has that #1 spot locked up for atleast 5 more years, which means you don't draft a CB in round 1 for atleast 3 more years. WR is the value at 22. I don't want WR to turn into a problem like QB was for us when Aikman left. Don't give me that Miles Austin, Sam Hurd, Jamaica Rector crap, they are UFA's. Draft our future #1 now while Glenn and Owens are still good. This team has barely any holes, so we should get our future WR now before it is to late.

Why would we waste a pick on another nate jones or reeves? the whole point of going CB in the first is to have someone who is up to newmans level of play or atleast close to it so we can have a shut down duo. Why would anyone want to sub anthony henry with another anthony henry?

WR in the first would be stupid IMO. Even if that happens to be where the value is at (although i disagree, Jarrett could be a great possesion guy but doesnt have the speed to be a big play guy, Ginn is a huge ***** who will be broken in half and placed in a daunte hall roll, and im just not familiar enough with meachem to comment on him) Our offense was fine last year. We put up plenty enough points. The problem was on defense. Some of you guys are trying to turn us into the Bengals with some killer offense but a defense that cant stop the other side.

I personally feel defense should be adressed in rounds 1 and 2 seeing as that we dont have any depth and only an average starter at NT, no depth and only average players after newman at CB, and no ballhawking safety. On offense we have a nice 1-2 punch at RB, A hall of fame reciever along with a terry glenn who is coming off his best season in years, a very solid number 3 in crayton and good depth with austin and hurd, Jason Wittin along with last years second round pick in Fasano, and an upgraded o-line to give Romo a little help -- i mean why spend a first or second on a guy here, who more than likely will sit for atleast a year, when someone on defense could get some playing time right away and contribute to the team.

Burns336
03-20-2007, 02:19 PM
OT: If Ted Ginn does not work-out on his pro-day do you think he is doing himself a favor?

Does he not run the risk of being labeled "fragile."

I think hes already got it written all over him.

robert_in_bigd
03-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Why would we waste a pick on another nate jones or reeves? the whole point of going CB in the first is to have someone who is up to newmans level of play or atleast close to it so we can have a shut down duo. Why would anyone want to sub anthony henry with another anthony henry?

WR in the first would be stupid IMO. Even if that happens to be where the value is at (although i disagree, Jarrett could be a great possesion guy but doesnt have the speed to be a big play guy, Ginn is a huge ***** who will be broken in half and placed in a daunte hall roll, and im just not familiar enough with meachem to comment on him) Our offense was fine last year. We put up plenty enough points. The problem was on defense. Some of you guys are trying to turn us into the Bengals with some killer offense but a defense that cant stop the other side.

I personally feel defense should be adressed in rounds 1 and 2 seeing as that we dont have any depth and only an average starter at NT, no depth and only average players after newman at CB, and no ballhawking safety. On offense we have a nice 1-2 punch at RB, A hall of fame reciever along with a terry glenn who is coming off his best season in years, a very solid number 3 in crayton and good depth with austin and hurd, Jason Wittin along with last years second round pick in Fasano, and an upgraded o-line to give Romo a little help -- i mean why spend a first or second on a guy here, who more than likely will sit for atleast a year, when someone on defense could get some playing time right away and contribute to the team.

The only caveat to Jarrett is he would give us something we don't have and would be very very valuable.

The receiver to throw the ball up to in the end zone. Our receivers are either short or have bad hands (TO). Jarrett at 6'5 gives us that little fade option when teams load the box to stop Barber.

Macarthur
03-20-2007, 02:54 PM
OT: If Ted Ginn does not work-out on his pro-day do you think he is doing himself a favor?

Does he not run the risk of being labeled "fragile."


What would happen if Roy Williams got a beat on Ginn? He could break that guy in half.

D-Unit
03-20-2007, 03:49 PM
I don't want to spend our first pick on a WR, but I've always liked DJ as a player. I could live with the selection.

Ward
03-20-2007, 03:52 PM
I don't want to spend our first pick on a WR, but I've always liked DJ as a player. I could live with the selection.

WR is such a non-impact pick, I would be more than a little frustrated. It would be a luxury at this point. We have real needs at FS/CB and LT that could make a sooner impact.

reigle9
03-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Do most feel like I do? I'm not going to know who I want until about the 20th pick is in. I was like that last year, and still didn't completely commit to one player. I think I have a better idea this year, but it will be interesting to see who is still there when we pick.

Years 2002, 2003, and 2005 I knew exactly what I wanted and we got them. Should've gone Jackson in '04, I'm surprised that's not complained about more.

LSUALUM99
03-20-2007, 07:39 PM
Agreed.

Offense was fine last year. During the last 4 games last year the Cowboys gave up 1700 yards. That's most in the NFL during that span.

Defense is clearly the problem area. Now, we could go LT on offense in the first round OR possibly WR, but I don't like the WR pick as much as CB or DE/OLB.

All in all, I'm looking for the best value at 22. To me, value is defined as BPA when cross referenced with the talent difference between the next best guy at that same position.

I think the drop off from #4 CB to #7 is huge. To me, Jason Hill, Allison, Gonzalez all provide a decent WR and the drop off between them and DJ is smaller than on the defensive side of the ball.

thule
03-20-2007, 08:09 PM
Just like to say I found a interesting stat on Crosby.

At first glance, Crosby's numbers as a senior appear erratic. He finished 2006 making 19 of 28, but this season's 69 accuracy percentage is the worst of his career. A closer look, however, reveals that Crosby successfully converted 17 of the 19 kicks he attempted within 49 yards; his big leg allowing for circus-like attempts of 56, 57, 63 and 65 yards. Though the statistically worst season of his collegiate career is a definite red flag for scouts, Crosby is still clearly the nation's top kicking prospect of this year. His leg strength translates onto kickoffs, as well, as Crosby has kicked off 203 times over his career with 138 going as touchbacks.

Paul
03-20-2007, 09:35 PM
The problem I have with drafting a CB in the 1st, is that of all the positions on defense, when it comes to rookies and inexperience, cornerback is where that inexperience hurts the most. Add that with the fact that I still believe Henry can bounce back for a down season and be a really good CB. And yes I know he is 31 or 32, but I hate that excuse. You do not go physically ******** when you hit 30 as many believe. He still has the skills and knowledge to be that guy who many saw as the savior in his first season here. Plus you can't deny he had no safety net behind him on the field, adding one will definitely help. Spending our 1st pick on a CB, when it isn't exactly a weakness just seems, for lack of a better word, stupid IMO. And yes the value is at CB at 22, but I'm just a Need>Value type of guy.

thule
03-20-2007, 10:11 PM
The problem I have with drafting a CB in the 1st, is that of all the positions on defense, when it comes to rookies and inexperience, cornerback is where that inexperience hurts the most. Add that with the fact that I still believe Henry can bounce back for a down season and be a really good CB. And yes I know he is 31 or 32, but I hate that excuse. You do not go physically ******** when you hit 30 as many believe. He still has the skills and knowledge to be that guy who many saw as the savior in his first season here. Plus you can't deny he had no safety net behind him on the field, adding one will definitely help. Spending our 1st pick on a CB, when it isn't exactly a weakness just seems, for lack of a better word, stupid IMO. And yes the value is at CB at 22, but I'm just a Need>Value type of guy.

You forgot that Henry hasn't had a healthy season since he's been here. He is as much of a health concern as he is a age concern.

bigmac076
03-20-2007, 10:12 PM
I agree with DMWSackMachine. There is a plethra of solid CBs, maybe good #1's at the next level, but no really elite players. Leon Hall is just blah, Revis is good, but he is slow on the field, i don't care about his 4.3 at his pro-day, and Aaron Ross is more of a FS IMO. There are 2 players with potential to be great, and that is McCauley and Houston. But I just don't think we need a CB in the first round. If you want to draft someone to be a future #2 for a henry, or a #2 right away, just get one in the 3rd or 4th, certainly not the 1st. Maybe Jonathan Wade. All be it Newman is turning 29 right before the season starts, but he has that #1 spot locked up for atleast 5 more years, which means you don't draft a CB in round 1 for atleast 3 more years. WR is the value at 22. I don't want WR to turn into a problem like QB was for us when Aikman left. Don't give me that Miles Austin, Sam Hurd, Jamaica Rector crap, they are UFA's. Draft our future #1 now while Glenn and Owens are still good. This team has barely any holes, so we should get our future WR now before it is to late.
Listen theres no such thing as a #2 CB alright. They are both on the field ALL THE TIME both starting CBs are #1.

Im_a_Romosexual
03-20-2007, 10:30 PM
^technically yeah, but the #1 corner is the "Shut-down" corner and the #2 is good, but not on the same level as the #1

LSUALUM99
03-20-2007, 11:32 PM
The problem I have with drafting a CB in the 1st, is that of all the positions on defense, when it comes to rookies and inexperience, cornerback is where that inexperience hurts the most. Add that with the fact that I still believe Henry can bounce back for a down season and be a really good CB. And yes I know he is 31 or 32, but I hate that excuse. You do not go physically ******** when you hit 30 as many believe. He still has the skills and knowledge to be that guy who many saw as the savior in his first season here. Plus you can't deny he had no safety net behind him on the field, adding one will definitely help. Spending our 1st pick on a CB, when it isn't exactly a weakness just seems, for lack of a better word, stupid IMO. And yes the value is at CB at 22, but I'm just a Need>Value type of guy.

I think if you don't draft the value and go for need you end up reaching for players. When you reach you are being reactive instead of proactive. Being proactive allows you to increase the overall talent of your team and not be held hostage by UFA's as they become expensive. It also allows you to have options during the season and allows you to pursue FA's during the offseason to fill holes.

I like the FA to fill needs, Draft to increase your talent base approach.

D-Unit
03-20-2007, 11:58 PM
I think if you don't draft the value and go for need you end up reaching for players. When you reach you are being reactive instead of proactive. Being proactive allows you to increase the overall talent of your team and not be held hostage by UFA's as they become expensive. It also allows you to have options during the season and allows you to pursue FA's during the offseason to fill holes.

I like the FA to fill needs, Draft to increase your talent base approach.
While I agree with that to a certain extent, I don't think that you draft the BPA without consideration of your needs. Especially when BPA is almost always subjective.

Being proactive in addressing needs is not necessarily a bad thing is what I'm saying.

Modano
03-21-2007, 04:07 AM
If we grab Ken Hamlin I want us to go after Joe Staley or a CB. Flozell Adams contract will expire next year, and I really like Staley, with his speed and athleticism he can shut down the small and speedy ends ala Freeney, Anderson, Mathis, Tapp, Berry, Abraham and so on..
CB will make much sense too, because Glenn will not be back next year, and Henry is getting old, and is often injured..
If we don't take Hamlin, I want a safety in the second/third round.. I don't think that Griffin or Merriweather are going in the first, they're gonna fall all the way to mid-late second round. Remember last year when Simpson was considered a first round and Watkins a late 2nd early 3rd? Safeties are always gonna fall...