What would you do to improve Soccer?

[soybean]

Ok, this isn't about futbol.

This is strictly, "what would you do to improve soccer's popularity and/or American's interest in the sport?"

You can be as unrealistic or realistic as you want. Any marketing strategies change of rules etc.

Let's face it, Soccer has very limited popularity in the United States and many of the players have to have day jobs just to make a living.

So... you're in the driver's seat, what would you do to make the sport more popular IN AMERICA.

[fenikz]

shrink the field

[CashmoneyDrew]

No Goalies.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Is shutting down the NFL, NBA, and MLB an option? Hard to believe soccer has ever gained popularity as most of us played it as kids. Soccer needs to figure out a way to market studs. Maybe the coverage of the world cup on ESPN will be able to help boost the sport. More importantly it needs a "wow" factor.

[WMD]

Along with shrinking the field, they can divide the game into quarters and make the goals smaller.

[Eaglez.Fan]

Is shutting down the NFL, NBA, and MLB an option? Hard to believe soccer has ever gained popularity as most of us played it as kids. Soccer needs to figure out a way to market studs. Maybe the coverage of the world cup on ESPN will be able to help boost the sport. More importantly it needs a "wow" factor.

I wouldn't say soccer needs a "wow" factor. From a purely entertainment point of view, it is really as exciting as say baseball or even football. Obviously people on this board will disagree with me because they love football and baseball. But really all three sports are slow for the majority of the game with a couple of really exciting moments. In soccer you have goals, in football touchdowns and in baseball homeruns.

But I think the entertainment aspect of this argument is completely irrelevant.

IMO hockey is the most entertaining sport to watch, and I don't even like hockey that much. It is by far the fastest and the most action packed, yet Americans still don't like it nearly as much as football, baseball or even basketball. Its almost a culture thing. I think most Americans view soccer as a wimpy European game, and just never really give it a chance. It's also very hard to start watching soccer when you grew up watching baseball or football.

[PackerLegend]

Give everyone machete's and the 1st team to chop an opponents head off and kick it in the goal wins.

[broth223]

1. Stripp .... er ... cheerleaders
2. Get an american to be #1 in the world at the sport. All major leagues have an american face to their league.
3. Love boat style scandal. Americans need to know that soccer isn't as *** as Americans think it is.
4. More scoring and/or more collisions/violet feats of athleticism all successful sports in America have these elements.

[Eaglez.Fan]

1. Stripp .... er ... cheerleaders
2. Get an american to be #1 in the world at the sport. All major leagues have an american face to their league.
3. Love boat style scandal. Americans need to know that soccer isn't as *** as Americans think it is.
4. More scoring and/or more collisions/violet feats of athleticism all successful sports in America have these elements.

#3. There are probably just as many scandals in soccer as there are in any other North American sport, maybe even more.
#4. You pretty much described hockey yet Americans do not like hockey (the majority).

[broth223]

#3. There are probably just as many scandals in soccer as there are in any other North American sport, maybe even more.
#4. You pretty much described hockey yet Americans do not like hockey (the majority).

3. We don't hear about Soccer sex scandals mostly because we don't care.
4. More people like hockey than soccer thus the success of the NHL over the MLS. The death of hockey had to do with the lockout something the sport couldn't handle hell it came damn close to destroying baseball if it weren't for the steroid era home run chase.

[ShutDwn]

One thing soccer really needs is for some of its players to grow a pair. The flopping in soccer can be terrible and it would really turn off a lot of Americans if they were to watch.

Yes, I realize there are tough players in soccer but the bitchiness is well documented. They could all take some notes from Steve Nash.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

When i watch soccer it is fairly wimpy. Seems anytime a guy gets touched he goes down grabbing his knee and there is a penalty. Maybe let the players play a little bit more. Soccer needs a way to get more shots on goal. A lot of the game is just back and forth stealing the ball advancing it and turning it over. For a "wow" factor on corner kicks it would be cool to see more headers or people connecting on bicycle kicks.

[Eaglez.Fan]

3. We don't hear about Soccer sex scandals mostly because we don't care.
4. More people like hockey than soccer thus the success of the NHL over the MLS. The death of hockey had to do with the lockout something the sport couldn't handle hell it came damn close to destroying baseball if it weren't for the steroid era home run chase.

1st of all, you don't want to hear about soccer sex scandals because Americans don't like soccer, so your 3rd point is not valid. Secondly, I still think the entertainment aspect is overrated. Europeans think soccer is the most exciting game in the world, yet American football and baseball are just as bad as watching paint dry. In reality these sports are probably on the same level of excitement and entertainment as a game itself, not including the whole half time shows and cheerleaders.

What is the difference between soccer and football, IMO, marketing and culture. Which are both pretty hard to change in the short run.

[Brent]

making us the best in the world at something is pretty much the easiest way

[MiWolves]

Make network show EPL, La Liga and other league games.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

Win the World Cup!!!!!

[bored of education]

Why fix something that ain't broke. The only thing I fix is if my remote is broke so I can change the channel from watchign this ****** ass game

[Rosebud]

Funnel tons of money into the US national team development. Soccer will never be popular in america until america can produce an elite soccer player. If you ever get a great player from America you'll start to see the sport finally get popular. Americans don't like sports where they aren't amongst the best in the world.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I think the US team getting deep into the World Cup and/or the World Cup being held in the states would go an incredibly long way towards stirring interest.

In general though, I think broadcasters need to start experimenting with more close-up camera work instead of constantly resorting to that massively pulled-back shot. It doesn't properly communicate the speed or excitement of the game.

[Rosebud]

One thing soccer really needs is for some of its players to grow a pair. The flopping in soccer can be terrible and it would really turn off a lot of Americans if they were to watch.

Yes, I realize there are tough players in soccer but the bitchiness is well documented. They could all take some notes from Steve Nash.

I don't buy that. The NBA is worse than any major soccer competition because the "stars" of the league are going to the line damn near 10 times a game and fouls are completely based on a player's prestige. Not even mentioning flopping in the NBA. Flopping's an issue but that's not the biggest issue, the biggest issue is the lack of a history of success. Americans just won't watch a sport dominated by countries like Brazil, Italy and Germany.

Why fix something that ain't broke. The only thing I fix is if my remote is broke so I can change the channel from watchign this ****** ass game

I know baseball is the most masochistic sport to watch, but I'm told there's a lot of strategy and history that make it exciting...Yeah I don't get it either...still you're being too harsh on baseball.

[Crickett]

noOHdTQd6H8

Seriously though, I would say that a good first step would be to eliminate tie games.

I once had a conversation with some people as to why I didn't like soccer. As they were watching, before I left the premises, I predicted a 0-0 tie. I don't even know who was playing.

I was right. The game ended in a zero-zero tie.

Want interest from Americans? That can't happen.

[EvilNixon]

Shrinking the field would be a great start. Encourage more scoring, kind of like hand checking in the NBA.

[Rosebud]

Shrinking the field would be a great start. Encourage more scoring, kind of like hand checking in the NBA.

Shrinking the field would close up a lot of space and make scoring more difficult. It's why the Serie A scores so many less goals, the teams their organize their squads to shrink the field of action suffocating offense. If anything making the field bigger would increase scoring.

[EvilNixon]

The 2nd part. Encourage scoring in addition to that. Make defense nearly impossible.

[Verloren]

Hit the grassroots. Enough kids play soccer as a youth. Get development camps going for the kids, teaching them at a young age.

Part of the issue is that the MLS isn't the greatest around, and the EPL/Champion's League plays at an awkward time for most people in North America - during working hours or at 7am in the morning on weekends.

Getting better TV deals for good hours for local MLS teams will go a long way.

It's the same issue expansion NHL teams eg San Jose Sharks until they helped the community develop a love for the game.

That, or get 20-30 big name players to play in the MLS like Gretzky/Beckham did for LA.

[Verloren]

Shrinking the field would close up a lot of space and make scoring more difficult. It's why the Serie A scores so many less goals, the teams their organize their squads to shrink the field of action suffocating offense. If anything making the field bigger would increase scoring.

The only time I can see shrinking the field working would be if the number of players decreased. Faster game, more individual skill based rather than team effort, which screws up any chances to play in the World Cup.

[bored of education]

I can name one guy on team USA, Donovan Landon. I went to an FC barcelona game and thought to myself 100,000 people go to Camp Nau or wherever to watch this ****** ass game

[Rosebud]

The 2nd part. Encourage scoring in addition to that. Make defense nearly impossible.

Look, I've grown up a soccer and hockey fan and then became a basketball fan at 9 and football fan a year later. Soccer is an awesome game the way it is at the highest level. The problem is the MLS is terrible and there just isn't much very good American talent. So where can Americans see high caliber soccer? There's the CL, World Cup, European Cup and that's it, now you get a couple english and spanish league games, but that's it. There's no local team that's any good and worth being a fan of.

[broth223]

1st of all, you don't want to hear about soccer sex scandals because Americans don't like soccer, so your 3rd point is not valid. Secondly, I still think the entertainment aspect is overrated. Europeans think soccer is the most exciting game in the world, yet American football and baseball are just as bad as watching paint dry. In reality these sports are probably on the same level of excitement and entertainment as a game itself, not including the whole half time shows and cheerleaders.

What is the difference between soccer and football, IMO, marketing and culture. Which are both pretty hard to change in the short run.

That is false I have heard of soccer sex scandals like when that Brazilian player got caught with the two transvestites.

While I admit that marketing is a major factor which is why Rugby isn't as popular as it should be in the US. Soccer is the European basketball there is no competition are comparison between Soccer and football on any aspect other than speed.

[Verloren]

The problem is the MLS is terrible and there just isn't much very good American talent. So where can Americans see high caliber soccer? There's the CL, World Cup, European Cup and that's it, now you get a couple english and spanish league games, but that's it. There's no local team that's any good and worth being a fan of.
All too true. Talented Americans will not play in the MLS with the higher salaries being found in Europe. It's the same reason why people from all over the world come to join the NBA and the NHL. If they have the talent to make it, they will get paid.

[frubulubu]

The MLS clubs should be more involved in the city where they play. Reach out to the people, and make the city feel as they should root for the club.

[descendency]

Let players use their hands and actually hit people. It would be way more interesting.

edit: I watch about the same amount of Hockey (Winter Olympics) as Soccer (World Cup) usually.

Free games and beer are good ways to make a team popular, locally.

[Rosebud]

All too true. Talented Americans will not play in the MLS with the higher salaries being found in Europe. It's the same reason why people from all over the world come to join the NBA and the NHL. If they have the talent to make it, they will get paid.

Exactly the few Americans who become world cup caliber leave so the fans aren't able to develop as close of a relationship. The only way soccer becomes a popular sport in america is if the US can develop a good 8 studs in this next generation and a lot of solid players around them so that the National team becomes a team that is expecting to make it to the knock out rounds with a couple serious runs to the semi finals.

So if I were really trying to develop soccer in the US I would create a few elite national soccer academies that have relationships with some major european clubs to develop talent from the western hemisphere and send it to them. You get enough talent growing up on US soil in addition to the better development of American talent and maybe the US team will be good enough to turn people onto the sport in this country. But that would take a major investment that wouldn't see returns for a long time.

The MLS clubs should be more involved in the city where they play. Reach out to the people, and make the city feel as they should root for the club.

That wouldn't help, they suck and are boring to watch. I like soccer, but that's because when I say soccer I mean good soccer, not MLS soccer.

Let players use their hands and actually hit people. It would be way more interesting.

edit: I watch about the same amount of Hockey (Winter Olympics) as Soccer (World Cup) usually.

Free games and beer are good ways to make a team popular, locally.

Explain Baseball without using the word History.

[DoughBoy]

It needs to be more physical. I like soccer personally, but I would watch more they cut the phony injuries.

[M.O.T.H.]

Sooooooooo boring.

I'd agree with shrinking the field and having less players on that field.

It will never be popular here, though. At least hockey can be fast paced, soccer is just a bore.

[M.O.T.H.]

I can name one guy on team USA, Donovan Landon. I went to an FC barcelona game and thought to myself 100,000 people go to Camp Nau or wherever to watch this ****** ass game

Yup. I never heard of a single other player on the team before.

[kwilk103]

the problem in the u.s. is our best athletes play other sports...baseball, football, and basketball

it's 4th on the totem pole, at best

which means, our teams arent gonna be great

[tjsunstein]

Shorter halves or broken down into quarters. Unlimited subs like the NBA.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I think a great deal of it is skill. I know some people just don't like the sport, but honestly I love watching teams that are fantastic passers (Italy and Spain's national teams come to mind). The US team and the MLS league is so far behind in that regard that the flow of games gets really bogged down.

I grew up playing soccer and all, but I would watch World Cup Soccer over the NBA Playoffs every time.

[njx9]

shot clock. or a 10 second clock and over and back rule.

also, the flopping. i can't stand watching the nba, because the players (tim duncan, i'm looking at you) are worthless little *******. i hate soccer more. at least duncan just whines up and down the court. he doesn't make the game stop for ten minutes so he can cry about how his knee got hit by a guy 20 feet away from him, get carried out on a stretcher, then return 3 seconds later. i can't knock winning strategies, but it's absolutely pathetic and the players should be ashamed of themselves.

more to the point, the talent level in the mls is a joke. i enjoyed the eurocup and i like the world cup, because the players are actually good. it's like watching 6 year olds play two hand touch (mls), to watching the nfl (the two cups).

[soybean]

One thing the MLS tried to do was bringing over high profile foreign players. Ie: adding david beckham which became a huge marketing ploy in the LA area.

I know they reached out to Zidane (the guy who threw that headbutt) but he declined.

Also I don't know if you guys rememberd but Nike once had numerous ads aimed at soccer which glorified the sport but was kind of a reach to the actul sport itself.

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[the_legend_killer]

Strippers passing out taco's at all games and for people watching on TV.

[steelersfan43]

Ok, this isn't about futbol.

This is strictly, "what would you do to improve soccer's popularity and/or American's interest in the sport?"

You can be as unrealistic or realistic as you want. Any marketing strategies change of rules etc.

Let's face it, Soccer has very limited popularity in the United States and many of the players have to have day jobs just to make a living.

So... you're in the driver's seat, what would you do to make the sport more popular IN AMERICA.

Get rid of offsides rule

[soybean]

shot clock. or a 10 second clock and over and back rule.



Love this idea. I think that would promote the players to be more agressive in scoring or attempts.

[iowatreat54]

This thread is pretty much the reason I loathe 99% of Americans.

Not soybean for making it, but some of the responses.

I mean, seriously, a shot clock? Apparently it's too much to ask people to think, they have to have shiny objects and instant gratification.

[7-11]

Sooooooooo boring.

I'd agree with shrinking the field and having less players on that field.

It will never be popular here, though. At least hockey can be fast paced, soccer is just a bore.

So many of you are calling for smaller fields and less players, but this game already exists - futsal - and that's a million times less popular than real football (soccer, whatever). Realistically you can't change the actual rules of the game because not a single decent player in the whole world will come and play a modified game in the US. It's all to do with marketing, the way the game is represented here in Australia has changed alot in the last 5 years and although we aren;t there yet, the game is definitely growing.

[soybean]

This thread is pretty much the reason I loathe 99% of Americans.

Not soybean for making it, but some of the responses.

I mean, seriously, a shot clock? Apparently it's too much to ask people to think, they have to have shiny objects and instant gratification.

You just described the casual sports fans.

[iowatreat54]

You just described the casual sports fans.

I know, and it blows.

Seriously, a shot clock would make soccer exponentially worse because a game that already takes a lot to score would be reduced to teams taking wild chances that aren't even skilled, thus making the game overall more sloppy.

A smaller field with less players and a smaller goal...sweet, basketball on grass. Also, a smaller goal would not make the game less boring to those who think it's boring. It would make it even harder to score.

No goalies. Just dumb.

Over and back. I'm just at a loss for words...

No ties is fine, but if a league wants to be taken seriously by FIFA, it has to allow ties. It's why the MLS got rid of their awesome shootout as well. And the rest of the world doesn't mind ties, but then again the rest of the world doesn't have the attention span of a gnat.

[njx9]

This thread is pretty much the reason I loathe 99% of Americans.

Not soybean for making it, but some of the responses.

I mean, seriously, a shot clock? Apparently it's too much to ask people to think, they have to have shiny objects and instant gratification.

yeah, my bad for being bored out of my mind by endless backpasses and absolutely no offensive play because american teams aren't good enough to do anything once they occasionally get the ball there.

it's cool though, i'm sure you thought you were making a witty response to a serious comment. sadly, you weren't, and it wasn't. which is an interesting sidenote... i hate 99% of iowa fans because they failed basic second grade reading comprehension.

[Mr. Goosemahn]

One thing the MLS tried to do was bringing over high profile foreign players. Ie: adding david beckham which became a huge marketing ploy in the LA area.

I know they reached out to Zidane (the guy who threw that headbutt) but he declined.

This. Well, kind of.

The thing with soccer leagues is that, basically every single league except the big 3 in Europe are, in a sense, developmental leagues.

Good, young players develop and then leave for Europe, whether you want them to or not. Right now, the MLS has very little infusion of YOUNG talent. Sure, they do sign international players, but it's after their time. Brand new example in Henry right now. He was a phenomenal player during his tenure at Arsenal, but right now all European soccer followers (and consequently almost every soccer fan) thinks of him as a washed up forward who failed to establish himself with Barcelona. Sure, bringing him in will provide a boost in ticket sales and whatnot, but it's temporary and won't last long.

IMO, here's what should be done:

1. Focus only on the big marketing cities WITH A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL ACTIVITY (be it immigrants or businesses or whatever). LA, New York, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Miami, and two more. Don't focus on the cities with little activity, because word has to spread about the quality of the league, and the best way to do that is internationally.

2. Dissolve any teams not in these cities, and only have 8 teams right now.

3. This 1. immediately boosts the quality of the league because more better players will play together, essentially weeding out the bad guys and 2. equal better distribution of money for the league (not to many teams).

4. Go find filthy rich investors for the teams, guys who'll be willing to pay a pretty penny for talent. Guys like the Nets' new billionaire owner.

5. Find YOUNG talent, still developing. I don't mean go for the next Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi, but solid, developing guys. Most good players from Brazil and other places didn't grow up in the best of conditions, so they could easily be swayed with promises of huge marketing contracts and living in an internationally recognized city. Again, increase the quality of talent, and also leads me to my next point...

6. Export talent. The reason other leagues are good is because they get a lot of attention and funds by exporting talent, be it their own (nationality wise) or a foreigner. So, the young guys play for some years in their teams, really make a name for themselves, and then go play to Europe in a mediocre, maybe good team. Again, not expecting to export to Real Madrid and Manchester United immediately.

7. Have some marketing techniques like the Beckham move, something that just stirs up interest again. These raise interest in young players so they more willing to play in those teams/cities/leagues involved. Much of soccer is prestige. Another example, young, promising Mexican striker Javier "Chicharito" Hernandez was just bought by Manchester United. While definitely a good move on paper for him, he will unfortunately not play a lot in the foreseeable future. Why? Because there's this other young guy who's only three years older than him called Wayne Rooney playing the same position. Still, Hernandez decided he wanted to go from surefire starter to surefire bench player. Why? Prestige. Manchester United > entire Mexican league. The promise and possibility of belonging to such a big-name club ultimately lures in everyone. Same goes for Giovanni Dos Santos who went to Barcelona, rarely played, and has bounced a bit since then. Guys really focus on prestige.

8. Play against international powerhouses. That's ultimately going to be the best way to gauge talent internationally. Start off against the elite Latin American teams, like Boca Juniors and others. Then see if you can get interest from the big European teams, Barcelona and such. They usually do play international teams, though they only play with reserves. Still, those reserves > most players elsewhere. And again, you beat them = you get attention and invaluable prestige.

That's my 8-Step Plan to improve the league. Would take a lot of effort, money and time to start off, but that's how it should be done.

Gotta start small and ensure you've got quality talent before expanding.

[iowatreat54]

yeah, my bad for being bored out of my mind by endless backpasses and absolutely no offensive play because american teams aren't good enough to do anything once they occasionally get the ball there.

it's cool though, i'm sure you thought you were making a witty response to a serious comment. sadly, you weren't, and it wasn't. which is an interesting sidenote... i hate 99% of iowa fans because they failed basic second grade reading comprehension.

Wait, so you actually are bored and want there to be more offense, so you suggested a shot clock and over and back rule. Then you, act like you weren't serious about it. Which is it?

Also, do you really think a shot clock would improve soccer? I'm just curious.

[njx9]

Wait, so you actually are bored and want there to be more offense, so you suggested a shot clock and over and back rule. Then you, act like you weren't serious about it. Which is it?

Also, do you really think a shot clock would improve soccer? I'm just curious.

i think the american version is hideously boring, as i clearly went on to discuss in the rest of my original post that you apparently failed to actually read in your hurry to talk **** about americans.

i think a shot clock would make soccer more entertaining in the same way that the xfl made football more entertaining. since contextual meaning is apparently not enough, i mean that it would be entertaining for about 15 minutes, then would result in an aborted version of a sport the 'athletes' on the field have no business being paid to play.

[Hawk]

1. Allows fights to occur, similar to hockey
2. Victoria Beckham sex tape
3. Mic up the players
4. Get a TV deal
5. Smaller field
6. No ties

[iowatreat54]

i think the american version is hideously boring, as i clearly went on to discuss in the rest of my original post that you apparently failed to actually read in your hurry to talk **** about americans.

i think a shot clock would make soccer more entertaining in the same way that the xfl made football more entertaining. since contextual meaning is apparently not enough, i mean that it would be entertaining for about 15 minutes, then would result in an aborted version of a sport the 'athletes' on the field have no business being paid to play.

Fair enough. I thought you honestly thought a shot clock would make it better somehow. I failed to realize that you apparently think soccer is a lost cause in America no matter what, after having a league for only like 12 years and not being elite yet.

I honestly did forget America should always be the best at everything immediately, and there's no such thing as development. I mean, the rest of the world has only had professional leagues for the better part of a century. It's only fair to compare American soccer to them, right?

[Addict]

there's nothing wrong with soccer, the fact that Americans don't like it is their problem. I hope they never change the game to accomodate more american viewers. They'd ruin it completely.

This thread is fail. FAIL I TELL YOU.








FAAAAAIL.

[keylime_5]

nothing wrong with the rules of soccer. soccer is just as exciting as football/baseball/basketball if you are emotionally involved or tied to a team. Most of the world watches soccer and doesn't watch football or baseball - not b/c it's a more exciting sport but b/c they don't have a horse in the race. Baseball and Football are American sports to Europeans and South Americans, and likewise soccer is an international sport to Americans since all the best players are from Argentina, Brazil, Europe, and Africa. If all of our best athletes played soccer instead of football and baseball then it would be huge over here like it is in Europe and we'd be one of the best at it in the world. Trust me, if you were really invested in following the US national team then you'd be as pumped about them in the world cup as you are about any other team you love.

[njx9]

Fair enough. I thought you honestly thought a shot clock would make it better somehow. I failed to realize that you apparently think soccer is a lost cause in America no matter what, after having a league for only like 12 years and not being elite yet.

I honestly did forget America should always be the best at everything immediately, and there's no such thing as development. I mean, the rest of the world has only had professional leagues for the better part of a century. It's only fair to compare American soccer to them, right?

and yet again, you completely miss the point. where, specifically, did i write off american soccer? further, where did i even come CLOSE to implying that the US should be the best at everything? are you even reading posts in this thread, or did you just feel like setting up a few strawmen to knock down?

further, do you have any understanding of the comparison that was made? or did you just think that was a cute sound byte?

seriously, please learn how to read. it's really not difficult.

[nepg]

The flopping is a huge turn off. Fact of the matter is that the best American athletes don't play the sport, so it's just not as interesting. If they put the Euro Leagues on network TV, I think they'd do really well with popularity.

People know MLS is bush league, so they don't watch it...it's really hard to watch sometimes because the talent level is so obviously low. People turn on the TV and gather at the bars in droves to watch the World Cup.

It's not anything that needs to be changed about the sport itself, it's that what we're given as options to view just aren't good enough, typically.

[Gay Ork Wang]

the flopping is the one thing that is more annoying than anythign else in soccer

[iowatreat54]

and yet again, you completely miss the point. where, specifically, did i write off american soccer? further, where did i even come CLOSE to implying that the US should be the best at everything? are you even reading posts in this thread, or did you just feel like setting up a few strawmen to knock down?

further, do you have any understanding of the comparison that was made? or did you just think that was a cute sound byte?

seriously, please learn how to read. it's really not difficult.

Before I proceed, I need to clarify. I'm under the impression that you feel American soccer is bad, whereas other soccer isn't. Or do you think soccer in general is boring?

First, you said American soccer is boring. What makes it boring? I'm guessing the quality of play. Which brings us to why after 12 (or so) years of the MLS, it's pretty premature to think that the rules of the game need to be changed in order to make the game more exciting. Whereas, we can wait and let the league develop, and the quality will improve greatly, thus making it more entertaining. I know you didn't mention it, someone else did, but do you think the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc. are boring? Because they've all had decades to develop and are extremely entertaining, hence why I brought them in the conversation. I mean, if you look at the MLS from even 5-6 years ago to now, you will see how much better it's become. Then again, this gets back to America's obsession with instant gratification.

Further, changing the rules of soccer would be a terrible idea long term. If you want an exciting, sloppy sport with ridiculous rules that will last for like 3 years, fine. But if you actually want a sport to sustain success long term, you can't change the rules of soccer. Reason being, the MLS needs to abide by the internation rules set forth by FIFA. If they were to change those rules, i.e. with a shot clock, changing the field of play, allowing fighting, FIFA would disown them. This would mean that the top talented players both from the U.S. and abroad would avoid the MLS like the plague, thus leading to poor quality within the league. It would also probably cause the league to fold faster than if they continued to play poor quality soccer while abiding by FIFA standards.

SO what it really boils down to is, do you legitimately want soccer to succed in the U.S., or do you think soccer in general sucks and would rather get a cheap 15 minutes of entertainment from it and then let it fade into oblivion? If the latter, I don't see how changing soccer would be the best move instead of just creating a brand new sport every couple years to keep people's attention.

[El Peefs?????]

Castrate the floppers. If someone gets carted or carried off the field they shouldnt be allowed to return to the game. Too often it seems thats a ploy to try and draw a yellow/red card & its pretty disgusting.

[iowatreat54]

Castrate the floppers. If someone gets carted or carried off the field they shouldnt be allowed to return to the game. Too often it seems thats a ploy to try and draw a yellow/red card & its pretty disgusting.

Pretty much. It's especially ridiculous when if they would have continued to go strong, they more than likely would have been better off.

[the dude]

dwarfs! (10)

[YAYareaRB]

I don't think Soccer will ever be as popular as the other sports here. We're the best in Football, best in Basketball, and best in Baseball.. We're definitely not the best in Soccer. I don't even know how you would fix that problem lol

[nepg]

I don't think Soccer will ever be as popular as the other sports here. We're the best in Football, best in Basketball, and best in Baseball.. We're definitely not the best in Soccer. I don't even know how you would fix that problem lol
Aside from our top athletes playing other sports, the way kids are brought up with soccer is much different in the US. Kids grab a ball and play on their own in whatever lot they can find in other countries, but you hardly ever see kids playing "unorganized" soccer in the US.

The reason we're so good at basketball is because we get plenty of time playing it unorganized and grow to really enjoy it. Same with football. You see kids throwing the football around all the time.

Other countries are so much better because the kids have a lot of time with the ball without coaches. They are able to play with it and figure out different things they can do with it... So when they line up for organized ball, they're much more dynamic.

[YAYareaRB]

Aside from our top athletes playing other sports, the way kids are brought up with soccer is much different in the US. Kids grab a ball and play on their own in whatever lot they can find in other countries, but you hardly ever see kids playing "unorganized" soccer in the US.

The reason we're so good at basketball is because we get plenty of time playing it unorganized and grow to really enjoy it. Same with football. You see kids throwing the football around all the time.

Other countries are so much better because the kids have a lot of time with the ball without coaches. They are able to play with it and figure out different things they can do with it... So when they line up for organized ball, they're much more dynamic.

I agree. But again, I wouldn't no how to fix this problem. lol

[619]

Getting better TV deals would definitely be my top suggestion. In Canada we get primetime EPL games every weekend on our major sports networks, and although you can't follow a team exclusively on a week-to-week basis this way, it provides an opportunity to enjoy high caliber soccer action.

I almost feel as if Americans take what they already have for granted. I know for a fact that if Canada had a quality squad equal to the Americans, that we would rally around them like no other. I suppose it's similar in some ways to the soccer movement that evolved in Australia over the past decade, because the interest here was always real; all we're waiting for is an opportunity to showcase it on an international stage (like the WC).

It might all bog down to the heart of a country's values, as it is no secret that Canada is more of a 'mosaic' than, say, a 'melting pot'. But that would be getting too political here.

[prock]

My theory about soccer is that we Americans don't like it because the only soccer readily available for us to watch is the MLS, and that is garbage soccer. We don't watch soccer because the best soccer players play in Europe, not in America. If the best basketball, football, and baseball leagues were based in Europe, we wouldn't follow them. We Americans think we are the best, and only accept the best. The MLS is absolutely not the best, so we don't care about it, it is basically like a minor league, which is why it won't gain popularity. If we can attract more of the games best players to America, or at least produce more American stars, it would gain steam in this country. But we can't produce more stars. America's best athletes play football, basketball, baseball, and hockey. The rest of the world's best athletes play soccer. Until soccer gains more popularity, the country's best athletes won't specialize in soccer, so we won't produce many homegrown stars. This is my take on soccer.

[prock]

the flopping is the one thing that is more annoying than anythign else in soccer

So I take it you hate the NBA as well?

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Horse in the race internationally
Better players in the MLS
More historical aspect over time like baseball has which is hella boring(but does have good tactical aspects like soccer/fun defensive plays/runs scored similar in excitement to close call goals in soccer and actual goals.
Flopping limited some for obvious non fouls. But I gurantee if you kicked alot of NFL players unexpectedly with a spiked shoe in the exposed ankle,shin or knee without padding(other than shin which is protected) they would fall on the ground like a sack of potatos very often.

[scottyboy]

the MLS needs more exposure and well...to be better run, or broadcast more. infuse it more into the American sporting community.
plus, a nice world cup run wouldn't hurt either. I believe the popularity in the NHL improved after America's run during the olympics.
edit: because as americans, we have to be the best at everything. that's what...makes us americans

[njx9]

Before I proceed, I need to clarify. I'm under the impression that you feel American soccer is bad, whereas other soccer isn't. Or do you think soccer in general is boring?

i think you should read my first post, where this question is very clearly answered.

First, you said American soccer is boring. What makes it boring? I'm guessing the quality of play.

why guess? i explicitly said that's why it's boring.

Which brings us to why after 12 (or so) years of the MLS, it's pretty premature to think that the rules of the game need to be changed in order to make the game more exciting.

then i'll assume at any moment you plan to berate the OP for creating the thread.

Whereas, we can wait and let the league develop, and the quality will improve greatly, thus making it more entertaining.

based on what, specifically? they'll get better because they'll get better?

I know you didn't mention it, someone else did, but do you think the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc. are boring? Because they've all had decades to develop and are extremely entertaining, hence why I brought them in the conversation. I mean, if you look at the MLS from even 5-6 years ago to now, you will see how much better it's become. Then again, this gets back to America's obsession with instant gratification.

no, it hasn't. it's still garbage compared to international soccer. if you'd actually read my initial analogy, MLS a decade ago may have been like watching 5 year olds play one hand touch. hooray for epic progress.

Further, changing the rules of soccer would be a terrible idea long term. If you want an exciting, sloppy sport with ridiculous rules that will last for like 3 years, fine. But if you actually want a sport to sustain success long term, you can't change the rules of soccer. Reason being, the MLS needs to abide by the internation rules set forth by FIFA. If they were to change those rules, i.e. with a shot clock, changing the field of play, allowing fighting, FIFA would disown them. This would mean that the top talented players both from the U.S. and abroad would avoid the MLS like the plague, thus leading to poor quality within the league. It would also probably cause the league to fold faster than if they continued to play poor quality soccer while abiding by FIFA standards.

and yet, if they want to appeal to a broader american audience, that's what they'd have to do (which is not, and has not been, what i'm advocating). look at the rule changes in every north american sport. all designed for more scoring and more excitement from a group of fans who don't care about nuance or skill, just pretty, shiny things.

SO what it really boils down to is, do you legitimately want soccer to succed in the U.S., or do you think soccer in general sucks and would rather get a cheap 15 minutes of entertainment from it and then let it fade into oblivion? If the latter, I don't see how changing soccer would be the best move instead of just creating a brand new sport every couple years to keep people's attention.

assuming you're actually asking and not just begging the question, i've answered this already. i reiterate: please learn how to read.

[iowatreat54]

the MLS needs more exposure and well...to be better run, or broadcast more. infuse it more into the American sporting community.
plus, a nice world cup run wouldn't hurt either. I believe the popularity in the NHL improved after America's run during the olympics.
edit: because as americans, we have to be the best at everything. that's what...makes us americans

A successful WC wouldn't hurt, but I don't know if it will necessarily improve popularity a lot, ala the Olympics with hockey. Just look back 8 years when the US made it to the quarters, including a huge win over the evil Mexico. Then 2006 happened. :( I think a successful WC definitely helps, but consistent success on the international level is the key. Which hurts considering most people would only care about the WC and it's only every 4 years, and could care less about other competitions in between.

[prock]

Flopping limited some for obvious non fouls. But I gurantee if you kicked alot of NFL players unexpectedly with a spiked shoe in the exposed ankle,shin or knee without padding(other than shin which is protected) they would fall on the ground like a sack of potatos very often.

I hear that. As probably the only or one of few soccer players on this board, I can tell you that while getting a spike in the ankle may look like nothing on camera, that **** ****** hurts. Soccer players aren't tough enough to fight for the most part, most of them are really tiny guys, but a lot of those tackles in soccer really do hurt a lot. Soccer plays flop a lot, but a lot of the time they actually do get tripped up and hurt. For example, when a running back gets tripped up by a shoe string, no one calls him a *****. But when a soccer play gets tripped up by a foot running full speed, he is a flopper.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

I hear that. As probably the only or one of few soccer players on this board, I can tell you that while getting a spike in the ankle may look like nothing on camera, that **** ****** hurts. Soccer players aren't tough enough to fight for the most part, most of them are really tiny guys, but a lot of those tackles in soccer really do hurt a lot. Soccer plays flop a lot, but a lot of the time they actually do get tripped up and hurt. For example, when a running back gets tripped up by a shoe string, no one calls him a *****. But when a soccer play gets tripped up by a foot running full speed, he is a flopper.

Yep exactly. Soccer players could be bigger or on roids but they need the stamina so they have to be lean to be able to run for 45-48 minutes straight mixing in sprints with slow running. Football players only have the sprints, they are not jogging on the sidelines while they wait for the next sprint. Football players run very hard but then its break time and it is so specialized they are not out there all the time. Every time I see someone in football get a leg injury/twist an ankle I always see them hobble to the sidelines. Soccer you can only substitute 3 people so that is why they have that stupid stretcher. Soccer and football players both play through nagging injuries but when the injury first occurs football players can be subbed out and examined by a professional trainer.

[njx9]

For example, when a running back gets tripped up by a shoe string, no one calls him a *****. But when a soccer play gets tripped up by a foot running full speed, he is a flopper.

there's a world of difference between a running back getting tripped, and falling down on the way to the end zone and a soccer player getting 'tripped' and lying on the ground for ten minutes crying about it.

[Giantsfan1080]

Something I posted a few weeks ago in the soccer thread:

Well most countries leagues can't afford the players they need. I'm not saying soccer is going to be bigger than the other sports but over time interest has slowly been rising. The World Cup years always help and even ESPN has been pushing European club soccer this year more than ever which will help the MLS in a spillover effect. The commercials thing is a big problem since we're such a ADD country. When European clubs come over they sell out easily. I was at the Chelsea/A.C. Milan game last year in Baltimore and it was a great atmosphere and packed. Those fans like European matches better but 10 years ago I'm not sure if we would have seen a crowd like that.

[yourfavestoner]

shot clock. or a 10 second clock and over and back rule.

also, the flopping. i can't stand watching the nba, because the players (tim duncan, i'm looking at you) are worthless little *******. i hate soccer more. at least duncan just whines up and down the court. he doesn't make the game stop for ten minutes so he can cry about how his knee got hit by a guy 20 feet away from him, get carried out on a stretcher, then return 3 seconds later. i can't knock winning strategies, but it's absolutely pathetic and the players should be ashamed of themselves.

more to the point, the talent level in the mls is a joke. i enjoyed the eurocup and i like the world cup, because the players are actually good. it's like watching 6 year olds play two hand touch (mls), to watching the nfl (the two cups).

I'm guessing you didn't catch the NBA Finals two years ago.

ysT8RA6JQks

[MetSox17]

Lol honestly, that was one of the most embarrassing moments in NBA history for me.

[yourfavestoner]

Lol honestly, that was one of the most embarrassing moments in NBA history for me.

The worst part wasn't even that he came back out three minutes later...it was that he came back out, checked right into the game, and started draining threes. Despite the fact that he stopped the game for 10 minutes during a Laker run and was acting like somebody just amputated his leg.

[Rob S]

I probably writing my thesis on this exact topic. I will have an extremely long answer for you sometime in the next 2 years.

[prock]

there's a world of difference between a running back getting tripped, and falling down on the way to the end zone and a soccer player getting 'tripped' and lying on the ground for ten minutes crying about it.

That is exactly my point. The running back is trying to get to the end zone, and the soccer player is trying to get towards the goal. When a football player gets tripped, it is fine. But when a soccer player gets tripped, it is a flop and a crying shame to the sport. I will be the first to admit soccer players flop quite a bit, but it isn't always the case, but people who don't play the game or watch the game on a regular basis don't understand this and just assume anytime a soccer player falls he is flopping.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

there's a world of difference between a running back getting tripped, and falling down on the way to the end zone and a soccer player getting 'tripped' and lying on the ground for ten minutes crying about it.

Hand trip landing on pads is much different than a spiked shoe to the ankle trip landing on your exposed body. The problem with soccer is you don't always know when its actual leg injury which do occur often or the guy is just trying to get the ref to give out a card as a tactical strategy. Its impossible to tell the difference sometimes. But I gurantee sometimes the soccer player is definitely in pain with an ankle injury.

Football players always go right off the field with a leg injury that hobbles them. Soccer players can't so they have to take a few more minutes to get up plus its still unfortunately tactical both for cards and to catch your breath a bit for sprinting/jogging for so long. Run full sprint once with a buddy in opposite directions. You get there a second early, have your buddy slide intentionally into your ankle with a spiked shoe and see how long it takes you to get up after jogging/sprinting for 40 minutes.

[prock]

Yep exactly. Soccer players could be bigger or on roids but they need the stamina so they have to be lean to be able to run for 45-48 minutes straight mixing in sprints with slow running. Football players only have the sprints, they are not jogging on the sidelines while they wait for the next sprint. Football players run very hard but then its break time and it is so specialized they are not out there all the time. Every time I see someone in football get a leg injury/twist an ankle I always see them hobble to the sidelines. Soccer you can only substitute 3 people so that is why they have that stupid stretcher. Soccer and football players both play through nagging injuries but when the injury first occurs football players can be subbed out and examined by a professional trainer.

Bumping this brilliant post so it doesn't get lost on the bottom of the page.

[YAYareaRB]

I think we're better off investing in Rugby.

[prock]

I think we're better off investing in Rugby.

Rugby is the craziest ******* sport their is. I would never **** with a rugby player, they make football players look like pussies.

[iowatreat54]

i think you should read my first post, where this question is very clearly answered.



why guess? i explicitly said that's why it's boring.



then i'll assume at any moment you plan to berate the OP for creating the thread.



based on what, specifically? they'll get better because they'll get better?
Pretty much. Looking at professional soccer a decade ago in the U.S., compared to professional soccer now in the U.S., there is a drastic improvement in skill and quality. It's fairly safe to assume that moving forward, the sport will continue to develop. There's really no logic in thinking it wouldn't.


no, it hasn't. it's still garbage compared to international soccer. if you'd actually read my initial analogy, MLS a decade ago may have been like watching 5 year olds play one hand touch. hooray for epic progress.
For someone who is bitching and moaning about reading comprehension, it's pretty funny that you say this when I never said compared to the rest of the world. I said comparing the MLS before to the MLS now. Note: This is still not a comparison of the MLS to the rest of the world. In case you were confused. And yes, it is great progress. Just because it went from terrible to bad doesn't mean there aren't positives. Again, it get's back to looking at the future and prospect of growth for the league. With how much it has improved in 10 or so years, there's no reason to think it won't continue to get better. But it's not happening overnight or hasn't happened already, so I guess it doesn't matter then.


and yet, if they want to appeal to a broader american audience, that's what they'd have to do (which is not, and has not been, what i'm advocating). look at the rule changes in every north american sport. all designed for more scoring and more excitement from a group of fans who don't care about nuance or skill, just pretty, shiny things.
Which is why I said I hate most American fans. Because the changes that would have to happen to keep them entertained are ludicrous. There's nothing wrong with the sport itself, it's the absurd mental capacity of the overwhelming majority of American fans, and their inability/refusal to have to think during a sporting event rather than be entertained with loud noises, shiny objects, and overall chaos. That was the reason behind me stating I hate 99% of American fans.

You also don't address my contention that imposing such changes would cause the league to fold within 5 years. Without support from FIFA, the MLS would have even less talent than it does now. So, while I agree, these changes would appeal to the average American fan, changing the rules in such a way would be a terrible decision because it would cause the league to inevitably collapse. That is why, more so than it ruining what soccer is about, the changes you and others opposed were terrible ideas. They take in to account absolutely nothing besides the current situation. They are just poorly thought out ideas.


assuming you're actually asking and not just begging the question, i've answered this already. i reiterate: please learn how to read.

Some responses in bold.

So, as an added argument, you state here that the changes you proposed would make the sport/MLS appealing to a broader American audience, who overall are uninterested and find the sport boring. Yet originally, you conteded that American soccer is boring. So what you're saying is that you fall into the broader American audience that finds it boring, which would be helped by said proposed changes. But you also say you do not advocate it. So, while you find the MLS boring as a part of the broader American audience, you do not advocate the changes you feel would be necessary to appease them. So I will ask, is there any legitimate proposal that you feel would improve the MLS in the eyes of the general public? Mind you, I've already addressed why changing rules would in fact be worse for the league.

[YAYareaRB]

Rugby is the craziest ******* sport their is. I would never **** with a rugby player, they make football players look like pussies.

Well thats the thing. A lot of our football players would dominate on the pitch.

[yourfavestoner]

B/S the World Cup destroying the Olympics in ratings

I actually think soccer is on the rise in the US, especially with parents becoming more and more concerned with the long term effects on the brain for football.

[prock]

B/S the World Cup destroying the Olympics in ratings

I actually think soccer is on the rise in the US, especially with parents becoming more and more concerned with the long term effects on the brain for football.

The World Cup will beat the Olympics in ratings. Even people who don't know **** or care about soccer watch the WC.

[iowatreat54]

B/S the World Cup destroying the Olympics in ratings

I actually think soccer is on the rise in the US, especially with parents becoming more and more concerned with the long term effects on the brain for football.

World wide? Buy and put my entire life savings on it.

In the US, I'd probably sell but it'd be a toss up.

[Giantsfan1080]

Soccer is on the rise. We've sold more World Cup tickets than any other country besides South Africa this year. Before the 94 World Cup there was hardly any interest in the US Mens national team. Now we have fans that go to watch them in any country even for friendlies. The Sam's Army and American Outlaw groups are popping up all over the country and I'm sure interest will continue to spread. It's a slow movement but progress has been made.

[Rosebud]

Some responses in bold.

So, as an added argument, you state here that the changes you proposed would make the sport/MLS appealing to a broader American audience, who overall are uninterested and find the sport boring. Yet originally, you conteded that American soccer is boring. So what you're saying is that you fall into the broader American audience that finds it boring, which would be helped by said proposed changes. But you also say you do not advocate it. So, while you find the MLS boring as a part of the broader American audience, you do not advocate the changes you feel would be necessary to appease them. So I will ask, is there any legitimate proposal that you feel would improve the MLS in the eyes of the general public? Mind you, I've already addressed why changing rules would in fact be worse for the league.

I don't like that argument, the MLS is boring, but not because the game is boring but because the "talent" is boring, I'm being generous with the word talent here since I could pick out 11 friends from Berlin who only play recreationally and would put up a fight in the MLS.

So NJX has a point that if you can't improve the quality of play the only way to make the MLS bearable would be to introduce some gimmicks. Although that isn't a long term solution.

Ultimately I think the only way to "fix" soccer in american would be to establish a number of high caliber soccer academies, something like 8-10 academies, and have their top teams compete in the MLS. That way you not only have better development for american talent but you'll hopefully be able to draw prospects from across the Americas to come play in the MLS improving the quality of the league and competition for american youth players. You might even be able get a couple of the kids to join up with the American national team to help supplement the home grown talent.

Then once you've got a quality developmental program organized hopefully the national team improves becoming a knock out stage regular and you'll see more interest in the sport and more of the top athletes flocking to the sport.

[iowatreat54]

That's a good assessment.

The one thing I'd add is that in terms of development, I mean both the talent and skills of players has increased, as well as the MLS itself in terms of marketing, salaries, fan support, etc. Continuing to develop the league in these ways would allow them to start to attract more talent. It's not going to be like all of a sudden the top players, but a gradual progression isn't unreasonable or even unexpected. And it is evident that the league has had made huge strides in the above ways since it's inception.

[Giantsfan1080]

The Red Bulls academy developed a player that a lot of major European clubs are interested in so that's a start. Also it really hurt that Rossi decided to play with Italy even though he made the right choice. The US Mens team really could have used Altidore and Rossi as the face of the future of American soccer.

[descendency]

Explain Baseball without using the word History.

That's the contest where people watch to see how far Albert can hit the ball (I've seen him hit a home run where the ball never did come down) and how much money crazy owners will pay to one player to smack a small ball with a big stick.

Oh, and Beer.

[njx9]

I'm guessing you didn't catch the NBA Finals two years ago.


i try really hard not to. i watch the nuggets because i'm a fairweather homer, and because my buddy loves them. couldn't see the video, but i'm guessing that's a good thing for my sanity.

That is exactly my point. The running back is trying to get to the end zone, and the soccer player is trying to get towards the goal. When a football player gets tripped, it is fine. But when a soccer player gets tripped, it is a flop and a crying shame to the sport. I will be the first to admit soccer players flop quite a bit, but it isn't always the case, but people who don't play the game or watch the game on a regular basis don't understand this and just assume anytime a soccer player falls he is flopping.

*shrug* let me know the next time a running back, on a sweep, 'trips' and falls on a defender who, in the replay wasn't within a yard of him, then spends 5 minutes in 'agony' trying to draw a penalty.

and, fwiw, i'm just as adamant about dives in hockey. they're disgusting, and players should be ejected for doing it.

Hand trip landing on pads is much different than a spiked shoe to the ankle trip landing on your exposed body.

:confused: two 200-300 pound men, running into each other headfirst at full speed is entirely different than two soccer players colliding in mid-air after a standstill jump. i don't really see how either statement is particularly relevant. all soccer dives don't come under the heading of 'slide tackle' and it's overly simplistic to suggest that they do.

The problem with soccer is you don't always know when its actual leg injury which do occur often or the guy is just trying to get the ref to give out a card as a tactical strategy. Its impossible to tell the difference sometimes.

and yet, generally, instant replay is fairly useful (or was, on whatever network i was watching the euro cup on in kenya).

But I gurantee sometimes the soccer player is definitely in pain with an ankle injury.

and no one ever implied that a player with a real injury isn't in pain. it's a complete non sequitur.

Football players always go right off the field with a leg injury that hobbles them.

bull****. please spend more time watching football or use less superlatives.

Soccer players can't so they have to take a few more minutes to get up plus its still unfortunately tactical both for cards and to catch your breath a bit for sprinting/jogging for so long.

*yawn* i never saw it once in all the time i played rugby.

Run full sprint once with a buddy in opposite directions. You get there a second early, have your buddy slide intentionally into your ankle with a spiked shoe and see how long it takes you to get up after jogging/sprinting for 40 minutes.

run full sprint once with a buddy in the same [opposite makes no sense] direction. get there a second early and have your buddy intentionally miss sliding into your ankle by a good yard. see how long it takes you to get up after jogging/walking/sprinting for 40 minutes.

[njx9]

I don't like that argument, the MLS is boring, but not because the game is boring but because the "talent" is boring, I'm being generous with the word talent here since I could pick out 11 friends from Berlin who only play recreationally and would put up a fight in the MLS.

this.

So NJX has a point that if you can't improve the quality of play the only way to make the MLS bearable would be to introduce some gimmicks. Although that isn't a long term solution.

and, honestly, it's a stupid solution. if you want people to watch a sport, make the sport interesting. it's like the xfl (from my original post). no one cared about the gimmicks after a week, because the actual play wasn't even up to semi-pro standards.

Ultimately I think the only way to "fix" soccer in american would be to establish a number of high caliber soccer academies, something like 8-10 academies, and have their top teams compete in the MLS. That way you not only have better development for american talent but you'll hopefully be able to draw prospects from across the Americas to come play in the MLS improving the quality of the league and competition for american youth players. You might even be able get a couple of the kids to join up with the American national team to help supplement the home grown talent.

i'd rate this as the most likely. or bring more of the international teams here to play exhibitions at times when people in the US can actually watch (or are more likely to watch). there's a near-zero chance that i'll ever pay whatever the ticket cost is for the rapids. there'd be a decent chance of me paying (or even making an effort) to see some of the better euro teams (i'm FAR less familiar with south american teams, though i'm not trying to exclude them).

Then once you've got a quality developmental program organized hopefully the national team improves becoming a knock out stage regular and you'll see more interest in the sport and more of the top athletes flocking to the sport.

as a kid, everyone plays soccer. most people quit playing for baseball/basketball/football as they get older because those are the sports they watch. if they were growing up watching decent american teams play with some of the better teams in the world, and if they had a chance to train that well (like they can for every other sport), i think you'd absolutely see interest rise. i doubt it would ever eclipse the big three, but it could certainly at least be as popular as hockey in most of the country.

Pretty much. Looking at professional soccer a decade ago in the U.S., compared to professional soccer now in the U.S., there is a drastic improvement in skill and quality. It's fairly safe to assume that moving forward, the sport will continue to develop. There's really no logic in thinking it wouldn't.

i'd hardly call it drastic. they went from horrendous to slightly less offensive to watch. if every good player ships out to europe, never to be seen again by mainstream american audiences, that talent pool will never increase further.

For someone who is bitching and moaning about reading comprehension, it's pretty funny that you say this when I never said compared to the rest of the world. I said comparing the MLS before to the MLS now. Note: This is still not a comparison of the MLS to the rest of the world. In case you were confused. And yes, it is great progress. Just because it went from terrible to bad doesn't mean there aren't positives. Again, it get's back to looking at the future and prospect of growth for the league. With how much it has improved in 10 or so years, there's no reason to think it won't continue to get better. But it's not happening overnight or hasn't happened already, so I guess it doesn't matter then.

it's irrelevant to compare MLS to MLS. i'm not going to start watching because it's slightly less awful. further, i'd hardly classify the progress as anything approaching 'great'. it's unrealistically optimistic. but yes, because it didn't happen last week, we might as well fold all soccer in the US. brilliant. :rolleyes:

That was the reason behind me stating I hate 99% of American fans.

right, then you referred back to my post, without even having the honesty to just quote it.

You also don't address my contention that imposing such changes would cause the league to fold within 5 years.

why would i address a contention that you keep pushing, in spite of the fact that i've already mentioned that my suggestions were tongue in cheek? i couldn't care less about this contention.

So, as an added argument, you state here that the changes you proposed would make the sport/MLS appealing to a broader American audience, who overall are uninterested and find the sport boring. Yet originally, you conteded that American soccer is boring. So what you're saying is that you fall into the broader American audience that finds it boring, which would be helped by said proposed changes.

yes, that might be the inference you'd make if you still hadn't bothered reading my FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD. if you HAD read that post, you'd know what an utterly idiotic thing that was to suggest.

But you also say you do not advocate it. So, while you find the MLS boring as a part of the broader American audience, you do not advocate the changes you feel would be necessary to appease them. So I will ask, is there any legitimate proposal that you feel would improve the MLS in the eyes of the general public?

yes. talent. and not, 'well, they might be up to 'mediocre' in twenty or so years. or buy some time on a major network and televise some better matches. or bring some teams here to play exhibitions (and no, not just in the big cities. find places [seattle comes to mind] where you've got a base, move from there). realistically, you have a PR issue and a bunch of europeans who aren't interested in helping the US to 'get it' and a bunch of asinine solutions from within the US like, 'just wait, i swear people will start caring any minute now...'

Mind you, I've already addressed why changing rules would in fact be worse for the league.

props. since i haven't seriously suggested rule changes beyond dealing with flopping, i'll continue to count this as irrelevant.

[scottyboy]

soccer needs moar rutgers.
/thread

[TimD]

#3. There are probably just as many scandals in soccer as there are in any other North American sport, maybe even more.
#4. You pretty much described hockey yet Americans do not like hockey (the majority).

like hockey, soccer will never be as popular as it should be because of the culture. americans love baseball football and basketball.

[Eaglez.Fan]

That is exactly my point. The running back is trying to get to the end zone, and the soccer player is trying to get towards the goal. When a football player gets tripped, it is fine. But when a soccer player gets tripped, it is a flop and a crying shame to the sport. I will be the first to admit soccer players flop quite a bit, but it isn't always the case, but people who don't play the game or watch the game on a regular basis don't understand this and just assume anytime a soccer player falls he is flopping.

Your analogy is pretty terrible to be honest. Soccer player benefit from them being taken out (a free kick or penalty shot), runningbacks do not benefit from being tackled. And although they are both running towards one direction it is often better to have a free-kick than take an off-balance shot running as fast as you can.

However, there is much less diving in soccer than Americans think. I think something that could help is having another ref added to spot diving. Because changing the rules like other people mentioned in this thread is just a very ignorant opinion.

[prock]

NJX, I am not saying that soccer players don't flop. I am saying it isn't always the case. Soccer gets a bad rep for floppers, though a good chunk of players don't flop. My point was that every time a soccer play falls, people say it is a flop, when that isn't the case.

[Addict]

I wasn't gonna get into this discussion beyond "Screw you America, take it or leave it" but since everyone seems hellbent on bumping this dumb thread let's go.

I present to you my two cents.

Like it or not, soccer (or football, as I will refer to it from now on because that's what it's called) is a European sport just like knights in armor and the 100 years war was Eurpean. It's not some kind of silly US concept. It's a thing of tradition, of love, of time.

Football clubs exist for decades, in the same city, unpopular or not. Believe it or not but 99% of football players around the world are actually unpaid and play it becuase they love it more than anything else. The reason Americans don't get it is because they see the big money and the big players and think that's what makes it great. It isn't.

What makes football in europe great is that you can go to my tiny little dutch town of Aalsmeer and find two soccer clubs in bitter rivalry. You'll find people who have had all of their kids go the clubs and who still, even though their kids are long into their twenties spend every sunday at the club doing work for free because they love that tiny little football club. That's what its about. Yeah they might like Ajax or Manchester United or Internazionale, but more than anything else they love the sport. That's football, that's soccer.

What you want is the top end of the Champions league, but what Americans fail miserably to understand is that the Champions league is the endgame of a process that starts in every single little town, where hearts bleed for games that nobody outside of the town borders will hear of.

That's football. That's soccer. That's why americans don't get it.

[prock]

Your analogy is pretty terrible to be honest. Soccer player benefit from them being taken out (a free kick or penalty shot), runningbacks do not benefit from being tackled. And although they are both running towards one direction it is often better to have a free-kick than take an off-balance shot running as fast as you can.

However, there is much less diving in soccer than Americans think. I think something that could help is having another ref added to spot diving. Because changing the rules like other people mentioned in this thread is just a very ignorant opinion.

I know what you are saying, but you are missing my point entirely. I wasn't trying to say that football players flop. I am saying people just assume a soccer player flops every time he falls. My analogy was intended to point out the fact that it is easy to get tripped up when running, but no one calls a football player a ***** when he gets tripped up, but when a soccer player does, he is a flopping fairy.

[prock]

I wasn't gonna get into this discussion beyond "Screw you America, take it or leave it" but since everyone seems hellbent on bumping this dumb thread let's go.

I present to you my two cents.

Like it or not, soccer (or football, as I will refer to it from now on because that's what it's called) is a European sport just like knights in armor and the 100 years war was Eurpean. It's not some kind of silly US concept. It's a thing of tradition, of love, of time.

Football clubs exist for decades, in the same city, unpopular or not. Believe it or not but 99% of football players around the world are actually unpaid and play it becuase they love it more than anything else. The reason Americans don't get it is because they see the big money and the big players and think that's what makes it great. It isn't.

What makes football in europe great is that you can go to my tiny little dutch town of Aalsmeer and find two soccer clubs in bitter rivalry. You'll find people who have had all of their kids go the clubs and who still, even though their kids are long into their twenties spend every sunday at the club doing work for free because they love that tiny little football club. That's what its about. Yeah they might like Ajax or Manchester United or Internazionale, but more than anything else they love the sport. That's football, that's soccer.

What you want is the top end of the Champions league, but what Americans fail miserably to understand is that the Champions league is the endgame of a process that starts in every single little town, where hearts bleed for games that nobody outside of the town borders will hear of.

That's football. That's soccer. That's why americans don't get it.

That is how America is with baseball and football. But we are like that because those are our sports that we developed. The question isn't why soccer is popular in Europe. The question is how can we make it better in the United States. We understand that people love the game in Europe, we get that. We are trying to discuss points on how we can get the US to that same point.

[njx9]

NJX, I am not saying that soccer players don't flop. I am saying it isn't always the case. Soccer gets a bad rep for floppers, though a good chunk of players don't flop. My point was that every time a soccer play falls, people say it is a flop, when that isn't the case.

you're using a bad analogy, but you're also ignoring that because there is a much higher perceived degree of flopping in soccer than in any sport, 'flop' is the first thing someone's going to think if it's questionable. certainly hockey players flop, we've covered the nba, and football players whine about ghost holds. but that's all sort of irrelevant, given the context of making the sport more palatable to an american audience. if the perception is that everyone's flopping, change it. complaining because other sports do it, too, isn't really adding anything meaningful.

but since everyone seems hellbent on bumping this dumb thread let's go.

not my fault that i'm bored and no one's delivered beer to the office yet.

That's football. That's soccer. That's why americans don't get it.

i think that's why americans aren't typically any good at it (rather than why they don't care). i think, at this point (to build actual interest), you'd have to build top down in the US. make people care about the best players, then start working on the college teams, the high school teams, the other club teams.

[Addict]

not my fault that i'm bored and no one's delivered beer to the office yet.

I can't argue this. No beer is a tragedy. Be safe, buddy.


i think that's why americans aren't typically any good at it (rather than why they don't care). i think, at this point (to build actual interest), you'd have to build top down in the US. make people care about the best players, then start working on the college teams, the high school teams, the other club teams.

But it doesn't work that way. It's what goes wrong with Basketball and Baseball in Europe: we just don't really care, because it's not... rooted. Sports isn't some product you can just put down anywhere for people to latch onto. It needs to grow in the public conscience for it to survive and become profitable. These days we see so many sports trying to "export" themselves. Like football in europe is deeply rooted in society, so is Baseball in the US, europeans on the other hand... well we don't care, we find it incredibly boring and mindblowingly uninteresting to follow.

[broth223]

hxFmdKYgIKw

[Rabscuttle]

Metal cleats!

[Rosebud]

I just want to say that flopping in the professional soccer is less distracting than is the gamesmanship that goes on in the NBA where "great" players only miss when they're fouled and defenders flop every which way. That's a league where you're reputation is the biggest reason for calls/non-calls. That's worse for me than soccer, where you'll see players get carded or suspended in retrospect for egregious flops.

[PackerLegend]

Give everyone machete's and the 1st team to chop an opponents head off and kick it in the goal wins.

Sorry guys but im pretty sure my idea is still the best. Whats not to like? It would be epic and it would be alot more popular. It might end up being a bit short lived once everyone gets their head chopped off but hey it satisfies the people! Better yet unleash one or maybe few cougars, lions, bears, or some other animal along those lines into the stadium. Now the players must use a machete and chop the animals head off and kick it to score and win the game. The ideas are endless and I think you get the point!

[Verloren]

Metal cleats!
Metal cleats are the worst thing ever. I saw a striker have to go to the ER because of a stupid goalie who had metal studs on. The studs went through the hard plastic shin guard, and split open his leg to the bone.

[Rosebud]

Sorry guys but im pretty sure my idea is still the best. Whats not to like? It would be epic and it would be alot more popular. It might end up being a bit short lived once everyone gets their head chopped off but hey it satisfies the people! Better yet unleash one or maybe few cougars, lions, bears, or some other animal along those lines into the stadium. Now the players must use a machete and chop the animals head off and kick it to score and win the game. The ideas are endless and I think you get the point!

Along these lines I propose that all Baseball fans be given a sniper rifle upon entering the stadium and the right to shoot any incompetent umps or dawdling players. That might speed it up and get games under 4 hours...

[Gay Ork Wang]

So I take it you hate the NBA as well?
there is no fake crying in the NBA. I live in germany, i get to see tons of soccer games. Guys like Cristiano Ronaldo are well known for being drama queens. The thing is that everyone does it to make it look worse than it is to maybe get the other player carded. Most of the time it is just annoying to see players fall and cry instead of trying to fight to get the ball back

[YAYareaRB]

It's all about the money. Money Money Money. No way MLS can ever attract talent or fans unless they get their money up.

[soybean]

flopping in soccer is not comparable to flopping in the NBA. In soccer the players wince in pretend pain on the ground. Players in the NBA at least to my knowledge don't really fake injuries. You don't really see that in the NBA except for one instance where a player called for a wheelchair then came back later in the game skipping in from the locker room.

[Rosebud]

flopping in soccer is not comparable to flopping in the NBA. In soccer the players wince in pretend pain on the ground. Players in the NBA at least to my knowledge don't really fake injuries. You don't really see that in the NBA except for one instance where a player called for a wheelchair then came back later in the game skipping in from the locker room.

The wincing isn't as bad as the horrible game changing fouls they create. The NBA game is much more influenced by refs and the horrible fouls they call than is soccer by the floppers and the cards they draw. So while I'll admit I hate floppers The NBA is still worse off with fouls and gaming the refs.

[JeffSamardzijaIRISH]

1) Give full soccer scholarships for college
2) Market soccer
3) Have competent coaches for youth soccer

Soccer is the most played sport by far in kids. These kids gradually start to lose interest because there is a much bigger market for basketball and football. Also, scholarships are much harder to come by in soccer than in football or basketball. Most schools don't even give one player a full scholarship. Most of the problem is that Americans are ignorant to the game and do not wish to adapt to it because it is a fairly new game to them. They say that its boring because people don't score, yet they love watching a baseball perfect game in where there are NO hits. Also, people who have never played soccer will rarely understand the game and have the "patience" to watch a game. They see the ball being passed around and assume nothing is going on but time wasting. I think soccer will start to drastically increase in popularity in the US in the next 10-20 years as more and more people start to play soccer.

EDIT:
4) establish soccer academies. Pro teams in Europe start admitting people into academies by age 8 and from there they get world class training. The people not good enough are weeded out.

[Mr. Goosemahn]

The difference is that flopping in soccer is, in essence, a strategy. If you see the guy is going to tackle you hard, you know you won't be able to continue your play, and therefore you might as well try and get the other guy carded.

The guy going to tackle you knows there's a good chance you're going to flop, so it's a risk he's willing to take. Once he gets carded, he won't be tackling hard anymore for fear of being sent off. It's like in the NBA when guys play to draw fouls. The other guy gets in foul trouble and he won't be pressuring you as much on defense or something. He'll be a bit more laid back.

But Addict is right. Soccer is more than just a sport in Europe and in Mexico, (where I've lived this), it's a way of life. There are people who's major driving force in life is their soccer team. It's a sport that unites the masses, regardless of any differences they may have. And it's something that's instilled to children from a very young age. You can go to any school and see all the kids lining up to play soccer. If there's no spots for them, they'll wait for their turn as opposed to go play something else. And guys will play anywhere. From a full field to a 2 vs. 2 skirmish with hand drawn goalies on two walls in the middle of the street, it's something that unites everyone. You can talk to someone who you've never met about soccer and you can have a great conversation.

It's basically what the US has with basketball and football. Young kids love playing basketball and football, and towns love following teams. Just like some small towns have a high-school football team they follow and adore, cities have the same thing with soccer. And since soccer actually transcends borders, you can really talk to many more people.

[Addict]

It's all about the money. Money Money Money. No way MLS can ever attract talent or fans unless they get their money up.

no it ******* isn't about money. That's what you're missing. Money is the endgame. Football is grassroots. You need to start small and build. Pump as much money into it as you want, nobody will ******* care.

Go ahead, spend 100 million bucks on Ronaldo. Nobody will care since Americans still won't care about the club he represents and still have no real connection to the sport he plays. If you want a sport to succeed somewhere, it's gotta take root. This isn't like movies or music.

[njx9]

Nobody will care since Americans still won't care about the club he represents and still have no real connection to the sport he plays.

let's be fair... americans would care for about the same ten minutes they cared about beckham. well. maybe only 9 minutes, since ronaldo wouldn't come with victoria beckham (disclaimer: i have no idea if ronaldo also has a hot wife).

[Giantsfan1080]

Ronaldo is single and screws ALL the sexy European women.

[Verloren]

EDIT:
4) establish soccer academies. Pro teams in Europe start admitting people into academies by age 8 and from there they get world class training. The people not good enough are weeded out.
In Exhibit A, you spend money on facilities, coaching costs, equipment and travel time on a youngster. Absolute phenom, say a future Wayne Rooney, and you know he won't leave the country. The kid signs with your club, and stays with your club, or you sell him for a lot more money than you invested. Great job.

In Exhibit B, you spend the same amount of money on a youngster, everything exactly the same. He gets drafted by your chief rival and plays against you. Absolutely horrible.

That is one of the problems with the MLS. There is no point developing your own youth locally if they can't stick with your club due to the MLS SuperDraft.

It's difficult enough getting funding to start a top tier soccer academy. You don't get anything from the colleges who offer scholarships to the graduates. There's no funding from the MLS squads because they might end up helping train a player who tears them apart. Even relying on the parents doesn't work out too well as a financial model in the early stages because the kids might end up getting weeded out as one of the worse ones.

[Rosebud]

In Exhibit A, you spend money on facilities, coaching costs, equipment and travel time on a youngster. Absolute phenom, say a future Wayne Rooney, and you know he won't leave the country. The kid signs with your club, and stays with your club, or you sell him for a lot more money than you invested. Great job.

In Exhibit B, you spend the same amount of money on a youngster, everything exactly the same. He gets drafted by your chief rival and plays against you. Absolutely horrible.

That is one of the problems with the MLS. There is no point developing your own youth locally if they can't stick with your club due to the MLS SuperDraft.

It's difficult enough getting funding to start a top tier soccer academy. You don't get anything from the colleges who offer scholarships to the graduates. There's no funding from the MLS squads because they might end up helping train a player who tears them apart. Even relying on the parents doesn't work out too well as a financial model in the early stages because the kids might end up getting weeded out as one of the worse ones.

That's why I'd take the MLS apart as it's currently constructed and develop 8 or so academies around the USA and have their senior squads be the teams competing in the new MLS. That way you also don't thin out your talent pool as much and the draft is no longer a problem.

[Cigaro]

I'm pretty sure the MLS has a cap. If so, get rid of that. 'Competition' is pointless when all teams are horrible. Let rich bastards buy whomever they want. I don't care if they completely dominate all the other guys.

[descendency]

The difference is that flopping in soccer is, in essence, a strategy. If you see the guy is going to tackle you hard, you know you won't be able to continue your play, and therefore you might as well try and get the other guy carded.
It's a brilliant strategy. It won Italy a World Cup.

[Verloren]

That's why I'd take the MLS apart as it's currently constructed and develop 8 or so academies around the USA and have their senior squads be the teams competing in the new MLS. That way you also don't thin out your talent pool as much and the draft is no longer a problem.

I think the SuperDraft should still be in play, but more limited in who it affects. EG only NCAA players going into the MLS since the players might not be affiliated with any academy/come out of an area where no talent pipelines exist.

[yo123]

Personally I would rather watch 2 girls one cup on a loop for 24 hours than watch 1 minute of a soccer game no matter what changes they made, but the only way it's going to catch on here is to speed up the pace and implement a few new rules favorable to offense, whatever those may be. The problem with that is the rest of the world will hate it and if you only do it for the MLS no one will care because it's the MLS.

[Eaglez.Fan]

It's a brilliant strategy. It won Italy a World Cup.

I seriously hope this is a joke.

[Rosebud]

Personally I would rather watch 2 girls one cup on a loop for 24 hours than watch 1 minute of a soccer game no matter what changes they made, but the only way it's going to catch on here is to speed up the pace and implement a few new rules favorable to offense, whatever those may be. The problem with that is the rest of the world will hate it and if you only do it for the MLS no one will care because it's the MLS.

The irony of this post and a baseball sig underneath it is awesome.

[Giantsfan1080]

I never understood why someone needs to bash another sport in order to make theirs look better. You like what you like. I like both baseball and soccer and so do a lot of other people. One game is not better than the other and that goes for any sport.

[Rosebud]

I never understood why someone needs to bash another sport in order to make theirs look better. You like what you like. I like both baseball and soccer and so do a lot of other people. One game is not better than the other and that goes for any sport.

I bash baseball because to me it's far more boring and slow than soccer yet so many Americans will defend Baseball to no end and yet bag on soccer every chance they get. I was just pointing out some hypocrisy because I'd rather watch Curling than Baseball, and that's not hyperbole. I don't really care if americans don't like soccer, we get it, you're not very good at it so you don't like it, but I just find it hilarious when Baseball fans attack soccer.

[Giantsfan1080]

I bash baseball because to me it's far more boring and slow than soccer yet so many Americans will defend Baseball to no end and yet bag on soccer every chance they get. I was just pointing out some hypocrisy because I'd rather watch Curling than Baseball, and that's not hyperbole. I don't really care if americans don't like soccer, we get it, you're not very good at it so you don't like it, but I just find it hilarious when Baseball fans attack soccer.

Ok well that's my point. You think that. Nobody is right or wrong here it's just annoying when someone(not just you) makes fun of something just because they don't like it. I just don't see the merit in an argument by bringing up another sport to make one look better than the other when they aren't close to being similar. They are totally different games. Like I said before I enjoy both though so to to each his own.

[MetSox17]

I seriously hope this is a joke.

No, it's not a joke. That Italian team was full of whiny little bitches.

[Addict]

I bash baseball because to me it's far more boring and slow than soccer yet so many Americans will defend Baseball to no end and yet bag on soccer every chance they get. I was just pointing out some hypocrisy because I'd rather watch Curling than Baseball, and that's not hyperbole. I don't really care if americans don't like soccer, we get it, you're not very good at it so you don't like it, but I just find it hilarious when Baseball fans attack soccer.

Although I see your point, as in I think watching baseball is what a coma feels like, I do think that the broader point he makes is very valid. Soccer is a great sport on its own merit. We don't need to point out how crappy baseball is to prove it.

[J-Mike88]

1. Stripp .... er ... cheerleaders
2. Get an american to be #1 in the world at the sport. All major leagues have an american face to their league.
You're onto something.

1. Sex sells. Look at what Pamela Anderson did for Baywatch.
Look what Anna Kournikova did for ladies tennis.

The problem here is we're talking about men's soccer, and you can't get popular catering to the RuPauls and Perez Hiltons. So that leaves us with cheerleaders who dress like hookers and look good.

Did you guys know the ATP (Pro Tennis tour) uses models as ball girls at some events in Europe? Why do you think they do this? Cuz all of us men like eye candy.

2. I think it will take someone like Tiger Woods to take this game to a new level. he has to be the best, and he has to be American. And he has to get Nike and Gatorade behind him and just hammer him to us in commercials and other promos. ESPN Sportscenter, etc. I thought we had a chance with Freddy Adu who did get a ton of hype. But he wasn't good enough.
And the other problem is that the MLS is a minor league. If Adu became that great, he'd go to the Man U or Real Madrid.

Honestly, I see no hope. The best idea I can think of is to find a city in America that has the most A) European soccer fans and/or B) Mexican soccer fans, and put a team that can be in an upper division that plays European teams. We keep talking about expansion in the NFL or NBA. Can we reverse that idea in terms of soccer?

I'm no soccer expert, so these are just ideas as a die-hard sports fan specializing in the NFL and PGA Tour and ATP/WTA Tours.

[YAYareaRB]

It's ALL ABOUT MONEY!

[Eaglez.Fan]

No, it's not a joke. That Italian team was full of whiny little bitches.

You are honestly saying that the reason why Italy won the world cup was because of their diving? Did you even watch one game?

And to say the team was full of whiny bitches is crap. Yes they had some whiny bitches, mainly the strikers (Gilardino, Totti, etc). Italy won because of Cannavaro and Buffon, and neither are "whiny bitches".

[prock]

You are honestly saying that the reason why Italy won the world cup was because of their diving? Did you even watch one game?

And to say the team was full of whiny bitches is crap. Yes they had some whiny bitches, mainly the strikers (Gilardino, Totti, etc). Italy won because of Cannavaro and Buffon, and neither are "whiny bitches".

Or because of Zidane.

[Rosebud]

Although I see your point, as in I think watching baseball is what a coma feels like, I do think that the broader point he makes is very valid. Soccer is a great sport on its own merit. We don't need to point out how crappy baseball is to prove it.

True, I just thought the irony was too great.

[Rosebud]

Or because of Zidane.

Or because Argentina decided to pick a fight with Frings after we beat them.

[Rabscuttle]

Metal cleats are the worst thing ever. I saw a striker have to go to the ER because of a stupid goalie who had metal studs on. The studs went through the hard plastic shin guard, and split open his leg to the bone.

At least this way the referee would be able to tell the difference between a guy that was fouled and some guy that needs to be taken out and beaten for acting like a *****.

[soybean]

Honestly, I see no hope. The best idea I can think of is to find a city in America that has the most A) European soccer fans and/or B) Mexican soccer fans, and put a team that can be in an upper division that plays European teams. We keep talking about expansion in the NFL or NBA. Can we reverse that idea in terms of soccer?

I'm no soccer expert, so these are just ideas as a die-hard sports fan specializing in the NFL and PGA Tour and ATP/WTA Tours.

We have one. It's called Los Angeles.

[Rosebud]

At least this way the referee would be able to tell the difference between a guy that was fouled and some guy that needs to be taken out and beaten for acting like a *****.

And the quality of play would drop off dramatically as talented kids would have their careers ended right away as a cleat to the shin ***** up their ankle and career. That's like suggesting basketball players get to play with swords on defense so that we can tell when there's contact.

[Addict]

At least this way the referee would be able to tell the difference between a guy that was fouled and some guy that needs to be taken out and beaten for acting like a *****.

this must be the most batshit insane thing I've ever read on this forum.

[Hurricanes25]

There is no reason to change anything about soccer. It's the most popular sport in the world. Although, if the USA happens to win the World Cup this summer, I'm sure it would get a bigger following here.

[Addict]

There is no reason to change anything about soccer. It's the most popular sport in the world. Although, if the USA happens to win the World Cup this summer, I'm sure it would get a bigger following here.

don't hold your breath.

[Rosebud]

I can't see this generation of American talent ever winning the cup unless the big teams boycott the World Cup. That's why I think they need to invest a lot in development so that the next generation could end up more talented.

[Hurricanes25]

don't hold your breath.

I'm not but thats what it's going to take to get Americans interested in soccer. We love winners so it's logical.

[B-Dawk]

its a chicken vs the egg type situation. youre not gonna get kids interested enough to go away from the big 4 sports unless there is a winner, and without a deep pool to draw talent from its going to be hard to compete internationally.

[scottyboy]

...more rutgers

[Hurricanes25]

...more rutgers

Of course, we need more Alexi Lalas.

[scottyboy]

http://www.scarletknights.com/soccer-men/history/images/lalas1.jpg

BOOM! moar rutgers AND sex appeal.

now where's that damn time machine...

[descendency]

You are honestly saying that the reason why Italy won the world cup was because of their diving? Did you even watch one game?

I remember 3 things from that WC. Italy winning, Zidane headbutting some guy for calling his mom a *****, and Wayne Rooney getting redcarded for crotch stomping someone in the game versus Portugal (which probably cost them the match).

Nah, I don't mean they were garbage and took dives to win. However, it is funny to watch how often you seen an Italian player rolling on the ground hoping a ref will call a penalty. The original statement was mild hyperbole. I seem to remember another team or two that took quite a few rolls in the grass.

[yo123]

The irony of this post and a baseball sig underneath it is awesome.



Why do you take this so personally? Any post not favorable to soccer and you have to flip it around on whatever sport that person likes. This isn't the "What do you think about baseball thread."

[wogitalia]

Haven't read the thread outside the OP... but I've been saying the following, they apply to Australia just as much...

1. Shot Clock - Soccer is like basketball before the shot clock, ie. 90 minutes that can be summarised in a 30 second highlight package. That's a tough sell to anyone without an emotional connection.

2. "Backcourt Violation" - Again... half the game is just boring passing backwards and not trying to attack. You can't kick back into your own half once you enter the attacking half and you have say 45 seconds to attempt a shot. Will open the game up, create space and create far more long shots and attacking play.

3. Straight Red Card for any player that dives - If you dive at all or exaggerate contact, you are off. It is pathetic watching grown men diving to the ground like they were shot. Probably the worst part about the sport.

4. Further to point 3, less fouls, I want a vicious attack on the ball. Should take more to be a foul which along with penalising diving far more harshly and consistently would take diving out of the game.

Think with just those things the game would be far more fun. Teams would be forced to try and score rather than trying not to concede and the players could stop being pathetic wimps.

I came to this conclusion after watching Australia basically bore it's way through the last World Cup, no intention to attack and try and score goals, just to not concede and hope the opposition screw up massively.

[Rosebud]

A shot clock would make soccer so much worse, you'd see a bunch of bad long range shots that have no hope of going in unless the Goalie makes a massive error as teams try to scramble far enough up the field to get a shot off. You won't see the creative combinations or quality build up. Comparing Soccer to Basketball directly fails because Basketball has no goalkeeper. If Goaltending where legal and every team had a giant who just sat under the net and poked balls away right as they approached the hoop it'd be one thing, but since a team can have a reasonable chance at hitting the shot just 5 feet after the half court line a shot clock is much more feasible.

Why do you take this so personally? Any post not favorable to soccer and you have to flip it around on whatever sport that person likes. This isn't the "What do you think about baseball thread."

That's not true. I talked about the NBA because I enjoy basketball and watch the NBA and see that the actual impact on games of gaming the referees is far more egregious. Which is completely on topic when making the point that flopping isn't a big enough reason to prevent a sport from being popular in America.

Baseball I just can't stand and find mind-numbingly boring. I stay out the MLB thread and try to keep my ripping on baseball to a minimum, I just thought the irony of your post was too much. Plus I found your post adequately offensive to describe my thoughts on Baseball which only strengthened the irony.

I've just heard too many clueless Americans making too many ignorant comments about a sport that they don't like just because they aren't good at it, which is so hilariously childish. "Well the whole world has this one sport that they all compete in to see who's the best in the world and we Americans aren't good at it so instead of not winning on the global stage we'll just not play/follow it" that's the national equivalent of taking your ball and going home, which is always hilarious.

[njx9]

"Well the whole world has this one sport that they all compete in to see who's the best in the world and we Americans aren't good at it so instead of not winning on the global stage we'll just not play/follow it" that's the national equivalent of taking your ball and going home, which is always hilarious.

i think it's more like taking the rest of the world's ball and punting it over the neighbor's fence.

[steelersfan43]

i think you should read my first post, where this question is very clearly answered.



why guess? i explicitly said that's why it's boring.



then i'll assume at any moment you plan to berate the OP for creating the thread.



based on what, specifically? they'll get better because they'll get better?



no, it hasn't. it's still garbage compared to international soccer. if you'd actually read my initial analogy, MLS a decade ago may have been like watching 5 year olds play one hand touch. hooray for epic progress.



and yet, if they want to appeal to a broader american audience, that's what they'd have to do (which is not, and has not been, what i'm advocating). look at the rule changes in every north american sport. all designed for more scoring and more excitement from a group of fans who don't care about nuance or skill, just pretty, shiny things.



assuming you're actually asking and not just begging the question, i've answered this already. i reiterate: please learn how to read.

Why are you so rude all the time man? Everyones here to pass the time discussing ideas and you always have to put everyone down. Lighten up

[njx9]

Why are you so rude all the time man? Everyones here to pass the time discussing ideas and you always have to put everyone down. Lighten up

*yawn* and/or :eyeroll:

[Rosebud]

i think it's more like taking the rest of the world's ball and punting it over the neighbor's fence.

Meh the world still has it's ball because no one outside of the US really cares that soccer isn't popular in here. Plus they still have their world cup, various regional international tourneys and the club level.

[njx9]

Meh the world still has it's ball because no one outside of the US really cares that soccer isn't popular in here. Plus they still have their world cup, various regional international tourneys and the club level.

i dunno. there are strong elements of a 'get off my lawn' mentality.

i should've mentioned that the neighbors are more than happy to give you your ball back, assuming they're european, african or south american. as a side note, i find some of the "world's game" stuff intriguing, given how little interest in soccer i've seen in the vast majority of asia (that i've been in, anecdotal evidence is, of course, anecdotal).

[Rosebud]

i dunno. there are strong elements of a 'get off my lawn' mentality.

i should've mentioned that the neighbors are more than happy to give you your ball back, assuming they're european, african or south american. as a side note, i find some of the "world's game" stuff intriguing, given how little interest in soccer i've seen in the vast majority of asia (that i've been in, anecdotal evidence is, of course, anecdotal).

I've unfortunately never been to Asia although it was my understanding that the game was very popular in some countries like South Korea and Japan. Plus it's quite popular in parts of the middle east as Israel and Iran both have pretty well developed domestic leagues and national teams, and I know Saudi Arabia used to have a pretty big following of the sport.

[bhaarat316]

Personally I would rather watch 2 girls one cup on a loop for 24 hours than watch 1 minute of a soccer game no matter what changes they made, but the only way it's going to catch on here is to speed up the pace and implement a few new rules favorable to offense, whatever those may be. The problem with that is the rest of the world will hate it and if you only do it for the MLS no one will care because it's the MLS.


How would you speed up a game that is always already constantly moving? Baseball has the same problem its mad slow.

Its all about understanding the rules and tactics of the games. Thats one reason I love football, I understand and know all the little details about football.

[wogitalia]

A shot clock would make soccer so much worse, you'd see a bunch of bad long range shots that have no hope of going in unless the Goalie makes a massive error as teams try to scramble far enough up the field to get a shot off. You won't see the creative combinations or quality build up. Comparing Soccer to Basketball directly fails because Basketball has no goalkeeper. If Goaltending where legal and every team had a giant who just sat under the net and poked balls away right as they approached the hoop it'd be one thing, but since a team can have a reasonable chance at hitting the shot just 5 feet after the half court line a shot clock is much more feasible.

See maybe I'm in the minority, but long shots are by far the most entertaining part about soccer, that and a good strong tackle. Nothing can beat a great long distance shot though, the control of the ball. You make the wrong comparison with the goal tending, what I suggest is more akin to taking away 3 pointers, I'm willing to have less of them if it means more layups and dunks, ie the exciting stuff. Great saves and long distance shots are soccer's equivalent.

I'm not saying it needs to be 24 seconds, if you combine say a 2 minute allowance with no back half passing you would have a far better game. Perhaps it is because I have primarily watched Italian, Australian and English soccer but all 3 are very boring and far more concentrated on not conceding than scoring.

The biggest flaw I have with the game is that mentality, soccer used to be fantastic to watch, back in the long ball and total football days, the days when teams looked to score, sure they'd have a good solid defensive foundation but they tried to score, they didn't just poke a ball around waiting for the other team to make a monumental **** up and then try and score, or worse, try and dive to get a free kick.

For me current soccer is played to the equivalent of kneeling 3 times and punting in the NFL, so paranoid of trying to score and the turnover that could result that they just don't bother trying to score, they just wait for the other team to throw a pick...

I don't mind soccer, I come from a country where it is much more accepted, still gets plenty of ripping because it IS a soft sport but it is still very popular.

Further, those are just my suggestions for what would make the sport better imo. No real right or wrong, if you are someone that enjoys the buildup as opposed to the goal that comes from it my plans probably don't agree, all they would do is perhaps rush that. On the same time they would force more buildups. A lot of people thought the shot clock would ruin basketball. For me the goal and shots are what makes soccer great, watching the ability of people to put ridiculous shape on a ball is just special, it's why, imo, Beckham is so popular, hell they made a movie based on that skill, and I want to see more of it. Watching Roberto Carlos, where everyone knew he was aiming top corner from damn near half way and yet he still got it there, nothing better in the game.

The irony is that in my 2nd favourite sport(AFL) I prefer the process to the goal, but you don't have that battle against a keeper, the goal in that is the completion of a process, not the absolution of a process.

Actually a cool topic.

Another out there suggestion I would throw up is a "reverse offside" where if a defender drops to much deeper than the nearest forward it is a free kick, with the idea being to create more space for play to be made into, whilst also forcing defenders to come up to open more counter attacking lanes.

[Verloren]

I've unfortunately never been to Asia although it was my understanding that the game was very popular in some countries like South Korea and Japan. Plus it's quite popular in parts of the middle east as Israel and Iran both have pretty well developed domestic leagues and national teams, and I know Saudi Arabia used to have a pretty big following of the sport.
It's still popular in Asia. Kids play it all the time in Thailand, Cambodia, Hong Kong and China. Although the local leagues don't have high end talent, kids and adults play in leagues and watch games when they come on TV.

Unfortunately, it's really hard to tell that these people are really passionate about the game since the matches end up being televised beginning from 2-3am and most people will not be up to watching unless it's on the weekend.

WC 2006 was shown in bars in Malaysia and Thailand when I last visited them. Hong Kong has bars showing EPL matches all the time.

[njx9]

It's still popular in Asia. Kids play it all the time in Thailand, Cambodia, Hong Kong and China. Although the local leagues don't have high end talent, kids and adults play in leagues and watch games when they come on TV.

Unfortunately, it's really hard to tell that these people are really passionate about the game since the matches end up being televised beginning from 2-3am and most people will not be up to watching unless it's on the weekend.

WC 2006 was shown in bars in Malaysia and Thailand when I last visited them. Hong Kong has bars showing EPL matches all the time.

*shrug* again, anecdotal, but i've seen more soccer played (played or played on tv) in the US than i saw at any time in any combination of japan, indonesia, thailand, cambodia, vietnam and laos.

[Addict]

this thread:

http://www.joewrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/haters-gonna-hate.gif

just this.

[Rosebud]

See maybe I'm in the minority, but long shots are by far the most entertaining part about soccer, that and a good strong tackle. Nothing can beat a great long distance shot though, the control of the ball. You make the wrong comparison with the goal tending, what I suggest is more akin to taking away 3 pointers, I'm willing to have less of them if it means more layups and dunks, ie the exciting stuff. Great saves and long distance shots are soccer's equivalent.

I'm not saying it needs to be 24 seconds, if you combine say a 2 minute allowance with no back half passing you would have a far better game. Perhaps it is because I have primarily watched Italian, Australian and English soccer but all 3 are very boring and far more concentrated on not conceding than scoring.

The biggest flaw I have with the game is that mentality, soccer used to be fantastic to watch, back in the long ball and total football days, the days when teams looked to score, sure they'd have a good solid defensive foundation but they tried to score, they didn't just poke a ball around waiting for the other team to make a monumental **** up and then try and score, or worse, try and dive to get a free kick.

For me current soccer is played to the equivalent of kneeling 3 times and punting in the NFL, so paranoid of trying to score and the turnover that could result that they just don't bother trying to score, they just wait for the other team to throw a pick...

I don't mind soccer, I come from a country where it is much more accepted, still gets plenty of ripping because it IS a soft sport but it is still very popular.

Further, those are just my suggestions for what would make the sport better imo. No real right or wrong, if you are someone that enjoys the buildup as opposed to the goal that comes from it my plans probably don't agree, all they would do is perhaps rush that. On the same time they would force more buildups. A lot of people thought the shot clock would ruin basketball. For me the goal and shots are what makes soccer great, watching the ability of people to put ridiculous shape on a ball is just special, it's why, imo, Beckham is so popular, hell they made a movie based on that skill, and I want to see more of it. Watching Roberto Carlos, where everyone knew he was aiming top corner from damn near half way and yet he still got it there, nothing better in the game.

The irony is that in my 2nd favourite sport(AFL) I prefer the process to the goal, but you don't have that battle against a keeper, the goal in that is the completion of a process, not the absolution of a process.

Actually a cool topic.

Another out there suggestion I would throw up is a "reverse offside" where if a defender drops to much deeper than the nearest forward it is a free kick, with the idea being to create more space for play to be made into, whilst also forcing defenders to come up to open more counter attacking lanes.

See you're talking about the rare beautiful long distance strike, that wouldn't be the result of the shot clock most of the time, most of the time you'd see bad shots from distance that don't even go on goal most of the time as players know they need a perfect strike to actually beat a keeper from that great a distance. I love watching goals scored, but the best and most likely goal scores come from creative and quick passing.

Plus Basketball is jsut a bad comparison, goals in soccer actually mean something where as in basketball any given basket doesn't really matter in a game where a hundred baskets are scored. If you're going to compare soccer to an american sport it should be Hockey, although the larger field and more players make it unique even from Hockey.

[Rabscuttle]

this must be the most batshit insane thing I've ever read on this forum.

Soccer would become 100% less *** overnight though. Participation in badminton and two man luge would go through the roof as well.

[Job]

I'd just mine the field.

[Verloren]

*shrug* again, anecdotal, but i've seen more soccer played (played or played on tv) in the US than i saw at any time in any combination of japan, indonesia, thailand, cambodia, vietnam and laos.
It definitely looks that way.

[keylime_5]

the only rule i would consider changing to improve soccer is more penalties for flopping. flopping is kinda annoying. the rest is fine.

it doesn't need rule changes. it just need teams worth watching (for americans i mean). all america's best athletes play football/baseball/basketball. soccer is as exciting as any sport there is if you're emotionally attached to a team. to timeouts, no commercials, constant gameplay, and when they score it's as exciting as any score in any other sport. scoring is no the only thing that makes it fun to watch either, unlike basketball.

[soybean]

http://www.Break.com/index/the-worlds-greatest-actors.html

damn you can only embed youtube vids.

[Giantsfan1080]

If the U.S.A. ever somehow won the World Cup the rest of the world would flip a sh*t big time.

[YAYareaRB]

What would you do to improve Soccer

JUST WIN BABY WIN!

[Addict]

JUST WIN BABY WIN!

your new midfielder?

http://media.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/raiders/vince-young-shirtless.jpg

[YAYareaRB]

Our new manager

http://deantae.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/lg_davis_all-01.jpg

In all seriousness though, the only real way to improve soccer in this country is to win. WIN WIN WIN! Get people to actually pay attention to Soccer.

[Addict]

In all seriousness though, the only real way to improve soccer in this country is to win. WIN WIN WIN! Get people to actually pay attention to Soccer.

no can't do. Care first, win when you care. There's plenty other countries who care and don't win but still care.

[fenikz]

we have better athletes(and more) than those countries, just have to get some kids interested then we would have a contender

[JeffSamardzijaIRISH]

See maybe I'm in the minority, but long shots are by far the most entertaining part about soccer, that and a good strong tackle. Nothing can beat a great long distance shot though, the control of the ball. You make the wrong comparison with the goal tending, what I suggest is more akin to taking away 3 pointers, I'm willing to have less of them if it means more layups and dunks, ie the exciting stuff. Great saves and long distance shots are soccer's equivalent.

I'm not saying it needs to be 24 seconds, if you combine say a 2 minute allowance with no back half passing you would have a far better game. Perhaps it is because I have primarily watched Italian, Australian and English soccer but all 3 are very boring and far more concentrated on not conceding than scoring.

The biggest flaw I have with the game is that mentality, soccer used to be fantastic to watch, back in the long ball and total football days, the days when teams looked to score, sure they'd have a good solid defensive foundation but they tried to score, they didn't just poke a ball around waiting for the other team to make a monumental **** up and then try and score, or worse, try and dive to get a free kick.

For me current soccer is played to the equivalent of kneeling 3 times and punting in the NFL, so paranoid of trying to score and the turnover that could result that they just don't bother trying to score, they just wait for the other team to throw a pick...



A shot clock would be a horrendous idea. Soccer is free flowing for 45 minutes except for out of bounds and fouls. The buildup play is what is exciting, not the goal scoring. Sure the goal scoring is great, but for those who actually know anything about soccer, the buildup play is the brilliant part.

And the longball kicking is absolutely horrendous to watch. England employs it, the US employs it when they panic, the Italians use it sometimes. Once a team starts just kicking the ball up to the forwards, the game becomes so boring. All it is then is a glorified game of kick ball, which is why England has only won one World Cup ever. Also, total football is much more alive now than before. Defenders now MUST be able to attack for teams to create mismatches and break down opposing defenses. Brazil and Argentina play styles of total football and its beautiful to watch.

The mentality of soccer is also not bunker down and defend. Some teams might play like that, but that is what makes you lose. Italy used to use this tactic all the time, and they've underperformed in many World Cups and European Championship's. Bunkering down to defend leaves you no options to attack and is just inviting teams to go down your throat to attack. This method almost NEVER works.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but its obvious to me that you don't understand the game of soccer much. The current game of soccer is total possession, more equivalent to taking 3 downs to get the first down and sometimes having a homerun hitter in football. The style of kickball that you alluded to earlier is more of a 3 kneels and punt situation. Comparing the flow of the game to football though is unfair because it is nowhere like the situation I described, but if you must put it in football terms, then thats it. Soccer is much more like basketball than football. The game is continuous, and players make most of the decisions, unlike in football where a coach relays in a play every down.

Many people posting in this thread about gimmicks are totally insane. Soccer itself is fine the way it is, it is just ignorant people like some posting in this thread that have hindered the development of soccer in America.

[soybean]

So they talked about this on Fox Sports Radio:

What if the US did away with the MLS and instead made a super team and ask to be invited into the English Premier League, then once in a while they can play games in some of the US's big cities (Chicago, New York, LA, Houston etc.)

[Michigan]

but what would happen once that "super" team gets relegated?

[Caddy]

It's irrelevant any way because there is no way in hell that would ever, ever, ever happen.

[The_Dude]

It is probably not just me, but the thing that really keeps me away from respecting/appreciating soccer as a major sport is the flopping to set up a shot. It is the biggest ******** thing of any sport. It is ridiculous and what i believe to be bad sportsmanship.

Get rid of that (penalties for flopping like in hockey?) and I may be more likely to feign interest in a 1-0 soccer match.

[MetSox17]

The MLS all-stars would get romped by the second division teams in the Premier League and in La Liga.

[Cigaro]

Invade Ghana.

[RaiderNation]

Make our best athletes play soccer and we would dominate.

[bored of education]

by changing the channel or never putting it on the TV in the first place.

[Caddy]

It is probably not just me, but the thing that really keeps me away from respecting/appreciating soccer as a major sport is the flopping to set up a shot. It is the biggest ******** thing of any sport. It is ridiculous and what i believe to be bad sportsmanship.

Get rid of that (penalties for flopping like in hockey?) and I may be more likely to feign interest in a 1-0 soccer match.

Several players have already been carded for diving. The problem is it's so hard to distinguish between a dive and an actual challenge that the player almost always gets the benefit of the doubt.

[CJSchneider]

Get rid of these damn things -

http://www.tendolle.eu/pages/weblog/files/Vuvuzela-groot.jpg

[njx9]

card every player who dives in the final 15 of overtime. not a single one was legit and everyone knew it. that final bit has very nearly turned me off of the entire world cup. in no other sport would something that abjectly pathetic ever be allowed to go on.

[EvilMonkey]

card every player who dives in the final 15 of overtime. not a single one was legit and everyone knew it. that final bit has very nearly turned me off of the entire world cup. in no other sport would something that abjectly pathetic ever be allowed to go on.

yeah, never been a soccer fan but actually enjoyed watching the first 90 minutes. The extra time of flopping, fake injuries, and stalling by Ghana after they scored reminded me why I hate soccer.

My suggestion is get rid of all penalties and put a giant cage around it so the ball can't be kick out of bounds 1000 times a game. Soccer Cage Match FTW.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Our new manager

http://deantae.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/lg_davis_all-01.jpg

In all seriousness though, the only real way to improve soccer in this country is to win. WIN WIN WIN! Get people to actually pay attention to Soccer.

Agreed. Americans will watch anything they're good at.

Other than that, I'd suggest getting real men to play, or just merge the current one with the women's tournament. Stuff like this:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2qks11e.jpg

is absolutely shameful. There's more testosterone in a WNBA game than there is in half of these WC teams.

[EvilMonkey]

yeah, the flopping has just gotten so out of hand it's unreal. Don't know what could be done to fix it though other than making a rule that after replay it is shown that you flopped on purpose, someone gets to cut your achilles.

[JeffSamardzijaIRISH]

I think diving adds a good element to the sport.

[fenikz]

i think you need to hand in your man card

[njx9]

I think diving adds a good element to the sport.

i think that's by FAR the most pathetic thing ever said by someone who claims to actually like sports. you should be ashamed to call yourself a fan, as worthless a description of you as that may be. please never watch another game ever again and let the rest of us enjoy watching people actually play the game.

but really, cute troll.

[JeffSamardzijaIRISH]

What's wrong with diving? You get it right you get the foul, you get it wrong, you get a yellow. If someone bumps you or sticks out a leg to trip you, I don't see any reason why not to go down in the right situation.

[Scotty D]

What's wrong with diving? You get it right you get the foul, you get it wrong, you get a yellow. If someone bumps you or sticks out a leg to trip you, I don't see any reason why not to go down in the right situation.

You have the right sport!

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

What's wrong with diving? You get it right you get the foul, you get it wrong, you get a yellow. If someone bumps you or sticks out a leg to trip you, I don't see any reason why not to go down in the right situation.

I can think of a few
Respect for the game?
Respect for your opponents?
Respect for yourself?
Possessing testicles?

[JeffSamardzijaIRISH]

Have you guys that are commenting on diving even played competitive soccer before? If you get hit and you are about to lose the ball or achieve a good scoring chance from going down, you do it. There is no disrespect. It is a good tactic and you have to time it right, otherwise you get a yellow or no call and lose the ball. This is not football where if you go down the play is over (obviously), so the mentality and tactics are different. Soccer is much more of a finesse game.

[sweetness34]

Have you guys that are commenting on diving even played competitive soccer before? If you get hit and you are about to lose the ball or achieve a good scoring chance from going down, you do it. There is no disrespect. It is a good tactic and you have to time it right, otherwise you get a yellow or no call and lose the ball. This is not football where if you go down the play is over (obviously), so the mentality and tactics are different. Soccer is much more of a finesse game.

There's a difference between feeling contact while going down and flopping. I've see more of the latter in this tournament. I absolutely cannot stand diving.

A) It's a ***** way to play

B) You take yourself out of the play if you don't get the call

C) As Chris mentioned, it's about respect as well

The agonizing on the ground and getting carried off on a stretcher needs to stop. It's embarrassing as player and fan to see that garbage.

[JeffSamardzijaIRISH]

The agonizing on the ground and getting carried off on a stretcher needs to stop. It's embarrassing as player and fan to see that garbage.

I agree about this part. I don't like the faking of injuries but sometimes it is needed to sell the dive and avoid getting a yellow. Doing what the Ghana player did though (just go to the ground after clearing the ball and feigning injury) is absolute ********.

[Boston]

Yeah, as it's been said, that second half of overtime really reminded me why I never really followed soccer in the first place. It was just a joke how much time Ghana was allowed to take off the clock by doing pathetic gimmicks like the "injuries" and the completely unnecessary substitutions.

[S4L]

We need to add at least one more referee to these top international games. The fact that hockey has two refs and two linesman covering that small sheet of ice and soccer only has one ref and two linesman is ridiculous.

If the World Cup had two or three referees, there would be another set of eyes on the play (which could lead to officials swallowing their whistle more unless they got a good view of a possible foul), but also keep an eye on players off the ball, preventing situations like the Ivory Coast player diving and holding his head when Kaka's elbow hit his chest.

[YAYareaRB]

preventing situations like the Ivory Coast player diving and holding his head when Kaka's elbow hit his chest.

i think the ivory coast player tried to make it look like Kaka's shoulder hit his face lol

[njx9]

What's wrong with diving? You get it right you get the foul, you get it wrong, you get a yellow. If someone bumps you or sticks out a leg to trip you, I don't see any reason why not to go down in the right situation.

yes, trying to make up for a complete lack of ability to play the sport with bad acting certainly makes the sport far better/more interesting. i mean, the last 15 minutes of that USA game were certainly far better because the ghanaian players were flopping on basically every possession.

[The_Dude]

I don't need to have played competative soccer to know that faking injuries to waste time and diving to get an advantage is bad sportsmanship. I don't think that anything could convince me otherwise

[MetSox17]

We need to add at least one more referee to these top international games. The fact that hockey has two refs and two linesman covering that small sheet of ice and soccer only has one ref and two linesman is ridiculous.

If the World Cup had two or three referees, there would be another set of eyes on the play (which could lead to officials swallowing their whistle more unless they got a good view of a possible foul), but also keep an eye on players off the ball, preventing situations like the Ivory Coast player diving and holding his head when Kaka's elbow hit his chest.

The only way i'd ever be okay with adding refs, would be if you added one near each goal, on the backside. That way you always get your cornerkicks called properly, PKs, and balls that go in are called in.

There's no way there should ever be two refs running around the field giving out cards.

[AntoinCD]

The only way i'd ever be okay with adding refs, would be if you added one near each goal, on the backside. That way you always get your cornerkicks called properly, PKs, and balls that go in are called in.

There's no way there should ever be two refs running around the field giving out cards.

They trialled that during the UEFA Cup. It worked okay.

[MetSox17]

They trialled that during the UEFA Cup. It worked okay.

Yeah, i know it had been brought up before. I know they've talked about an "orange card" as well. In the Mexican league, they also set a farther limit of space to be given on FKs. Ref goes and sprays a line on the ground for the defensive line not to cross. Anyone who crosses it before the ball is kicked automatically gets a yellow.

[Mr. Goosemahn]

Yeah, i know it had been brought up before. I know they've talked about an "orange card" as well. In the Mexican league, they also set a farther limit of space to be given on FKs. Ref goes and sprays a line on the ground for the defensive line not to cross. Anyone who crosses it before the ball is kicked automatically gets a yellow.

Yeah, I don't know why other leagues haven't used that, it's actually pretty useful.

Also, I don't get why they don't put two more referees on the sidelines. There should be two on each side, not just one. Each referee gets one half, but it's hard to see things at times. Just add one more referee for each side where there never is a guy, simple.

That way, one of the referees was bound to see the goal missed today, as well as properly giving out corner kicks and such.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

I don't need to have played competative soccer to know that faking injuries to waste time and diving to get an advantage is bad sportsmanship. I don't think that anything could convince me otherwise

Seriously. In what other sport is that an acceptable tactic? It's different in other sports because the clock stops, but it'd be the same as with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter of a basketball game, and you sub in Vujacic for Kobe. Then on the first possession, Vujacic makes a huge scene and acts like he killed his ACL. He's carried into the locker room a la Paul Pierce. Then Kobe comes back in, missing 10 seconds of game time, but resting for like 5 minutes real time. Just a total ***** tactic.

[J-Mike88]

I was just reading the comments from the German goalkeeper today about his acting fooling the referee on the horrific, embarassing, pathetic missed goal, and the thought occured to me how professional golfers call infractions on themselves even though they rules are rifrickingdiculous, and it ends up costing them big dough.

From grounding their clubs in a bunker or misplacing their ball after marking it, to other stupid rule book things, these guys are at least honorable.

What a contrast, and it starts at the top with the FIFA governing body. What an absolute joke they are with missing huge goals, or missing huge offsides on huge goals.

How much is a goal worth at the knockout stage?
$25 million?

How much is a goal worth at the quarterfinal level, semi, finals?

Goals are precious. Technology could fix it. Hell, HOCKEY has something called a GOAL JUDGE who's only job is to watch the goal line. Is soccer broke that they can't afford to place a guy behind the goals? The field is longer than hell, and there's just one ref running all over the place?

The sideline judge was 10 meters out of position on the obvious offside for Argentina today. Why not use replay if they're not going to have enough officials to be in proper position?

It's like this sport's governing body is 60 years behind the times. I tried to sell this sport to a bunch of my football, golf, tennis buddies this weekend and between the USA game and the flopping today and the 2 corrupt goal ef-ups today, they're not interested...... Maybe in 4 years again sports fans like this will tune in again.

I think El Qaeda shoud target FIFA next, but maybe that's just me. :)

[thefalconer]

I think El Qaeda shoud target FIFA next, but maybe that's just me. :)

uhhh what?

[J-Mike88]

uhhh what?
You sound confused?

If any organization needs to blow up and start over, make some dramatic changes and get with the times, it's FIFA. Even Ford has moved forward with technology.
And who better to blow things up than the Taliban, or Al Qaeda?
Maybe BP?

[Addict]

You sound confused?

If any organization needs to blow up and start over, make some dramatic changes and get with the times, it's FIFA. Even Ford has moved forward with technology.
And who better to blow things up than the Taliban, or Al Qaeda?
Maybe BP?

I'd say wacking Blatter should do the trick just fine.

[Vikes99ej]

They need to add disco breaks


lovvryhA2PE

[Stash]

Allow hip checks and changes on the fly.

[critesy]

They need to add disco breaks


lovvryhA2PE
i second this

[J-Mike88]

http://tinyurl.com/23v2gac

June 29, 2010
Blatter apologizes to England, Mexico

JOHANNESBURG -- With pressure for video replay mounting after two blatant missed calls at the World Cup, FIFA president Sepp Blatter says soccer's governing body will reopen the issue after the tournament.

The referee at England's second-round match with Germany on Sunday missed a clear English goal that would have tied the score 2-2. Germany went on to win 4-1. Hours later, a referee awarded a goal to Argentina on a play in which goal-scorer Carlos Tevez was obviously offside. Argentina went on to beat Mexico 3-1.

Blatter, who attended both matches, said Tuesday that FIFA deplores "when you see the evidence of refereeing mistakes." It would be "a nonsense" not to consider changes, he said.

Blatter also said he had apologized to English and Mexican soccer officials.

"After having witnessed such a situation," Blatter said, referring to England's non-goal against Germany, "we have to open again this file, definitely."

He said the International Football Association Board would consider changes at a July meeting in Cardiff, Wales.

"Naturally we will take on board again the discussion about technology," Blatter said, adding that the system could not be altered midway through the World Cup. "Something has to be changed."

While major sports including tennis, American football, baseball and hockey have employed video replay as a tool to help officials get calls right, soccer has steadfastly refused to do so. Blatter said in 2008 that soccer should be left with errors.

But after England and Mexico were wronged, the group which represents pro players worldwide, FIFPro, said referees should get access to high-tech assistance.

"The entire football world once again reacted with disbelief to FIFA's stubborn insistence that technology does not belong in football," FIFPro said. "The credibility of the sport is at stake."

Blatter said he apologized to England and Mexico team officials at the matches.

"The English said 'thank you.' The Mexicans, they just go with the head," Blatter said, indicating that they nodded. "I understand that they are not happy. It was not a five-star game for refereeing."

[AntoinCD]

Blatter said he apologized to England and Mexico team officials at the matches.

"The English said 'thank you.' The Mexicans, they just go with the head," Blatter said, indicating that they nodded. "I understand that they are not happy. It was not a five-star game for refereeing."

Lol for a second I thought he was saying they went to headbutt him...I would headbutt Sepp Blatter. Just because I dont like his name