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D-Unit
06-02-2010, 07:06 PM
*This is an interactive activity that will allow us to get a forum wide's opinion on each team's draft. Please feel free to comment on your decision.

PRE-DRAFT NEEDS (according to Scott): #1 - CB| #2 - QB | #3 - OL

DRAFT PICKS:

Round 1, Pick 15 (15) Jason Pierre-Paul DE 6'5" 270 South Florida

Round 2, Pick 14 (46) Linval Joseph DT 6'4" 328 East Carolina

Round 3, Pick 12 (76) Chad Jones FS 6'2" 221 LSU

Round 4, Pick 17 (115) Phillip Dillard LB 6'0" 245 Nebraska

Round 5, Pick 16 (147) Mitch Petrus OG 6'3" 310 Arkansas

Round 6, Pick 15 (184) Adrian Tracy DE 6'3" 248 William & Mary

Round 7, Pick 14 (221) Matt Dodge P 6'1" 224 East Carolina

Rosebud
06-02-2010, 07:07 PM
Lol I just tried to make this thread so could a mod delete mine?

Anyways as for the draft I give us a B+/A-. Reason being we haven't gotten to pick very high lately so grabbing a guy in the first round who's got All-pro potential was a very good gamble, especially on a guy who plays a position we have talent at and we do a good job of developing. JPP may not be a big impact player as a rookie, but long term DE is a position of concern, Kiwi has been an under-achiever who's contract is up next summer and we still don't know if Osi will ever be beast he once was. Now JPP's incredibly raw but he's got a great motor and great work ethic to go with those great tools so I think that he'll develop very well and will surpass Tuck one day.

As for the other picks I love the Linval Joseph pick, he's a massive mountain of a man who has great burst for a DT. Joseph should be in competition for the DT spot next to Chris Canty and if the two of them are healthy and gel our run D, which was by far the biggest weakness of this team other than injuries, should improve drastically as our DTs will no longer be push overs that any decent OL can push around, which is a big reason why our redzone D was epically bad and our LBs looked like trash.

Chad Jones is an insurance pick, if all goes well he'll be a situational player behind Kenny and Rolle, but he's got a lot of potential and if Kenny's knee messes up his career we've already got a replacement that we've been grooming in house.

In round 4 I would taken Matt Tennant just because of our Center situation, but I like what I've read about Dillard and he seems like a good guy to have in case Goff struggles, although if our DT play improves as it should I doubt Goff struggles since he's already shown that he's better than Pierce has been since he got fat. I know this was our #1 need according to a lot of analysts, but it really isn't, Goff will be good in the middle, not great, which is why a lot of giants fans would've liked to see an upgrade like McClain or Spoon brought in, but no second rounder was going to give us more than Goff.

In the 5th round we grabbed a very athletic guard who's got great upper body strength even though he's also very raw. If he develops he fits very well in our scheme as he'll be able to pull very well and is mean, but at this point in the draft I'm not expecting more than a solid backup.

Adrian Tracy is a DE we'll be converting to SLB just so that we have a backup for Clint Sintim. If he can just help on special teams and the occasional situational pass rushing spot that'll be nice since I expect big things from Sintim who's a monster against the run, a very good blitzer with good natural athleticism.

Finally Matt Dodge, with Feagles retiring we needed a punter and if we can get Feagles to stick around and help develop Dodge I'd be stoked.

A lot of boom n bust ness to this draft but with our top picks Joseph is the only one who could end up being thrown into the fire before he's ready. While later on we just moved to solidify our LB depth and add an OL before we go after a Center and RT in next years draft to complete the re-loading of our OL, which should improve a lot this year as Beatty will step in at LT letting Diehl move to LG where he was a monster or RT.

billsfootball15
06-02-2010, 07:28 PM
love the lindval joseph pick

scottyboy
06-02-2010, 07:34 PM
JPP- F minus

Lindval Joseph- despite being another DT named Joseph which scares me, A

Jones- he has sweet dreadlocks, hits hard, and ensures CC Brown got cut. B

Dillard- we needed a MLB, from what I've read, looks decent. I'm a huge Goff supporter at MIKE, but can't complain with this pick- B

Pietrus- He's rich seubert 2.0. B+

Tracy- Small school, 6th round pass rusher. B+

Dodge- FEAGLES RETIRED :( but he seems awesome for a punter, and assuming we knew Feagles was going to retire (or had 1 more year and keep Dodge on the PS) A.

Lack of Rutgers makes me sad. BUT we signed Tim Brown and Zaire Kitchen. A+++++ win

LonghornsLegend
06-02-2010, 08:48 PM
Linval Joseph is an awesome pick and completely fills a need, he'll be a stud. I felt he would be a great fit in a 3-4 or 4-3.


JPP I liked it, I just feel like they had the DE depth to gamble on a project with immense potential, seems like everyone hates it but if anyone will make it work it's NY. He won't be rushed, and he'll be playing on a line with talent all across the board, he was worth it even though your not going to reap benefits immediately.


Chad Jones was someone I wanted in Dallas, another high potential pick and if KP isn't right it'll look even better. I think he can become really good in a few years, but again not immediate help or even longterm unless KP is never the same.


Dillard was ok, Petrus was a beast of a pick, two late rounders were ok. I think they get a C+, I felt they could of came away with more immediate help but they went for alot of guys who could contribute or start in a few years, so in 3 years they could get a much higher grade.

marshallb
06-02-2010, 09:29 PM
I'd give this draft a B-. I am not a fan of JPP, but I do think the Giants are one of the best fits for him, they can work him in slowly and let him develop. I'm a fan of both Linval Joseph and Chad Jones, and think both could thrive. Dillard seems like a good pick, I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to him though. Petrus could be a nice OG, and I don't know what to say about the other 2 picks, a P, and a DE from W & M.

TitansCJftw
06-02-2010, 09:59 PM
Round 2, Pick 14 (46) Linval Joseph DT 6'4" 328 East Carolina

Round 7, Pick 14 (221) Matt Dodge P 6'1" 224 East Carolina


A

:D :D :D :-D

like chad jones too :p

oh and LINVAL not lindval

Mr.Regular
06-02-2010, 10:28 PM
JPP is an interesting first round pick. Boom or bust at a pick that they don't necessarily need right away, but on the other side he has time to develop as he learns as a situational pass rusher. Pretty much perfect spot for him. And for a player considered by many the best DE in the draft, getting him at spot 15 is really good.
Linval Joseph is a great pick. I've been saying for a while that a big man in the middle of that DLine would work wonders for the Giants. Joseph is a great value there too.

Im not a fan of Chad Jones, but in the third round, can't really complain, though I would have gone with a different player (and position for that matter).

After that, they grabbed some nice players in the late rounds.

This draft isn't too flashy, but it's hard not to go A. They revamped the DLine, the lifeline of that defense, with a big nose and the most talented pass rusher in the draft. Can't complain with that.

RaiderNation
06-02-2010, 10:59 PM
Gave it a B-. Thought they should have went LB earlier but it will be interesting to see how the defense looks with JPP and Joseph

SF Dolphin Fan
06-02-2010, 11:30 PM
*This is an interactive activity that will allow us to get a forum wide's opinion on each team's draft. Please feel free to comment on your decision.

PRE-DRAFT NEEDS (according to Scott): #1 - CB| #2 - QB | #3 - OL

DRAFT PICKS:

Round 1, Pick 15 (15) Jason Pierre-Paul DE 6'5" 270 South Florida

Round 2, Pick 14 (46) Linval Joseph DT 6'4" 328 East Carolina

Round 3, Pick 12 (76) Chad Jones FS 6'2" 221 LSU

Round 4, Pick 17 (115) Phillip Dillard LB 6'0" 245 Nebraska

Round 5, Pick 16 (147) Mitch Petrus OG 6'3" 310 Arkansas

Round 6, Pick 15 (184) Adrian Tracy DE 6'3" 248 William & Mary

Round 7, Pick 14 (221) Matt Dodge P 6'1" 224 East Carolina

Lots of gambles. Jason Pierre-Paul does remind me of Jason Taylor, but he fits the boom or bust category to a tee. The Giants could be a nice fit for him, though, if they are willing to be patient. I think overall this is probably a C type draft unless Pierre-Paul really makes an impact down the road as a pass rushing threat.

scottyboy
06-02-2010, 11:38 PM
D, I just noticed, there's no way those needs from Scott are right. CB? QB? uhm, I think you copied the wrong one haha

NY+Giants=NYG
06-03-2010, 07:42 AM
I give our draft a B -. No more or no less.. We basically drafted for the future, and usually we are in no rush to play our guys we draft. See Manningham, Barden and Travis Beckum, and Philips. None of these guys started right away. Some barely saw the field. I expect us to take our time and groom JPP. We have no need to rush him, and I suspect we won't. I will be interested in how the media rates him. Because he won't start or play so much, will they put him in the bust category or be smart enough to give him an incomplete. I think we do have a some good guys with excellent potential, but again, this draft isn't for this year. I think in couple years we will see how these guys will do.

I do like the value we got, and so that's why I give this draft a B -. I didn't like the JPP pick, but I do understand why we drafted him. We had him 6th on our draft board, and he was available at 15. You don't pass up a guy like that, especially if the motto you follow is, you never have too many pass rushers.

killxswitch
06-03-2010, 08:35 AM
JPP that early was a really bad pick and Joseph mid-2nd wasn't much better IMO. The only picks I like are Mitch Petrus in the 5th and Chad Jones in the 3rd. D for me.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-03-2010, 09:21 AM
JPP that early was a really bad pick and Joseph mid-2nd wasn't much better IMO. The only picks I like are Mitch Petrus in the 5th and Chad Jones in the 3rd. D for me.

I don't think JPP got picked early. Rumors were that if we didn't pick him, the Titans, with the next pick would have. We had him ranked 6th on our draft board and got him at 15 which is great value. On the other hand, the Cowboys had him ranked 17th I believe on their big board, and we basically picked him in the mid first round. So I don't think it was bad in terms of value or placement of the pick.

bigbluedefense
06-03-2010, 10:12 AM
I give us a C, with potential to go up or down in the future. The reason why its a C is because we won't see any immediate impact from this group, everyone is basically more athlete than football player.

Even Joseph, who should see some quality snaps this year, is more raw and athletic than technically sound.

The only guys who have a chance of making some impact this year are Joseph, and MAYBE Dillard. The punter doesn't count.

The rest of the guys are developmental, and will take some time to give an impact. If they pan out, we got a hell of a draft. If they don't, its a terrible draft. Lots of boom or bust picks in this class.

We'll see how it shapes up, we'll get a much better idea of this class 3 years from now, so I think as an initial grade, a C is a fair grade. It could go as high as an A or as low as a D 3 years from now.

I for 1 love the JPP pick, but I know I'm in the minority on that.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-03-2010, 10:24 AM
I for 1 love the JPP pick, but I know I'm in the minority on that.

You are the minority when it comes to JPP.

killxswitch
06-03-2010, 10:55 AM
I don't think JPP got picked early. Rumors were that if we didn't pick him, the Titans, with the next pick would have. We had him ranked 6th on our draft board and got him at 15 which is great value. On the other hand, the Cowboys had him ranked 17th I believe on their big board, and we basically picked him in the mid first round. So I don't think it was bad in terms of value or placement of the pick.

I don't think JPP will amount to anything in the NFL. I put him on the same level as Everson Griffen, who went in the 4th. Granted that was later than I expected for Griffen. But I think of both of them as late 2nd/early 3rd round prospects. I think his rep as an athletic freak is way overblown. We will see, of course, but I think he will bust.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-03-2010, 11:04 AM
I don't think JPP will amount to anything in the NFL. I put him on the same level as Everson Griffen, who went in the 4th. Granted that was later than I expected for Griffen. But I think of both of them as late 2nd/early 3rd round prospects. I think his rep as an athletic freak is way overblown. We will see, of course, but I think he will bust.

That's a fair opinion. However if anyone team has the chance to develop him, I'd be confident it was our team, since we seem to do well with our DEs and bringing them along. Plus he has no pressure to start or impact right away which will help him big time. We can be patient and ease him in, and get him stronger, and refine his technique and get his god given skills more of a chance to come out by polishing everything else. I do think that he is ranked better than most fans or media guys give him. We had him 6th, dallas had him 17th, and the Titans probably take him if we would have passed. So I do think teams had him as a first round grade. Now will he bust? He has the chance to bust, but overall his skill set is viewed as a first round grade by other teams in the NFL.

killxswitch
06-03-2010, 11:16 AM
That's a fair opinion. However if anyone team has the chance to develop him, I'd be confident it was our team, since we seem to do well with our DEs and bringing them along. Plus he has no pressure to start or impact right away which will help him big time. We can be patient and ease him in, and get him stronger, and refine his technique and get his god given skills more of a chance to come out by polishing everything else. I do think that he is ranked better than most fans or media guys give him. We had him 6th, dallas had him 17th, and the Titans probably take him if we would have passed. So I do think teams had him as a first round grade. Now will he bust? He has the chance to bust, but overall his skill set is viewed as a first round grade by other teams in the NFL.

I agree if he is going to succeed anywhere, it'll be in NY. Though I am not sure how much Spags had to do with the success of your DEs specifically, maybe you could speak to that? What is up with Osi?

I don't necessarily want him to bust. And from my limited knowledge of him I don't think he's ever been accused of dogging it (like Griffen or Michael Johnson of two years ago) so maybe he has a better chance than those guys. We'll know in a few years.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-03-2010, 11:37 AM
I agree if he is going to succeed anywhere, it'll be in NY. Though I am not sure how much Spags had to do with the success of your DEs specifically, maybe you could speak to that? What is up with Osi?

I don't necessarily want him to bust. And from my limited knowledge of him I don't think he's ever been accused of dogging it (like Griffen or Michael Johnson of two years ago) so maybe he has a better chance than those guys. We'll know in a few years.

Spags was a good motivator and OSI got a long with him, but mostly his position coach. Last year that all changed, even after his worst game, he got graded avg to good apparently by our position coach, which showed the rest of the staff that the two were really close. So Osi said something in the media that changes needed to be made. So the staff first fired the DL coach. So that was an indirect message to OSi, that yeah, we made changes, and the first to go was your buddy. Now next step, was the DC then.

Osi is back and working harder now with Fewell there as the DC. So that's a good sign. Osi never liked Sheridan, and Pierce was on the NFL network, and basically said that carried over the whole season, and then spilled over to other players too.

But now with a new DL and a new DC, I expect Paul to be groomed, and he has 3 sets of DEs to learn from. Osi, Kiwi, and Tuck. Not a bad 3 guys to learn from. And he would be in no rush to be an impact player. Plus on passing downs, we can even rush all 4 if we want.. Osi, Kiwi, Tuck, and Paul. Canty can be thrown in there too. So we do have options. And I am speaking as someone who disliked Paul as our pick, but I do understand the BPA philosophy, and on our board, he was a bargain. When the 6th ranked player is there at 15, I can see why it was a decision that the staff and scouts, and GM all were on the same page for. So not that I like the pick, but I can understand the reasoning. I think patience will be key in seeing how Paul will turn out.

Thumper
06-03-2010, 11:39 AM
C

There is no immeadiate impact in this draft other than possibly Phillip Dilliard and the entire draft is boom or bust, this draft could be an A+ in 5 years or one of the worst drafts in Giants history. So... I go with the middle ground, C.

LonghornsLegend
06-03-2010, 12:05 PM
I think the JPP value was just fine, he was pegged as a mid 1st rounder, and some teams probably had him in the top 10, he was flying up draft boards towards the end of the process. Personally, I'm a big fan of those high upside, high risk, athletic freaks if you have the atmosphere to develop them properly; slowly, not rushed into the line-up, talent around them.


I'd be a fan of all those type of risk, but for instance had Tennessee taken him he would have been expected to start right away, and contribute, that's alot more pressure on a guy like him.

Rosebud
06-03-2010, 12:11 PM
The thing about JPP that separates him from a lot other raw pass rushers like Dunlap, Griffin and Michael Johnson is that he has a very good motor, the kid's raw, but he brought it on ever down, that's why I was a lot higher on JPP than I was on those other guys and why I feel very comfortable with him, especially since he can sit behind some very talented DEs for a year and learn.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-03-2010, 12:31 PM
I think the JPP value was just fine, he was pegged as a mid 1st rounder, and some teams probably had him in the top 10, he was flying up draft boards towards the end of the process. Personally, I'm a big fan of those high upside, high risk, athletic freaks if you have the atmosphere to develop them properly; slowly, not rushed into the line-up, talent around them.


I'd be a fan of all those type of risk, but for instance had Tennessee taken him he would have been expected to start right away, and contribute, that's alot more pressure on a guy like him.

If those were the Titans expectations if they drafted him, then I'd go with him busting because he was so raw. Last thing you need is for him to get owned and have his confidence shot from the get go.

But i think in the end this draft is more of a wait and see draft. It's like a stock, we got very good value in players that have a high ceilings. With that comes a high bust factor too, but now we made our investments in these types of players, and now sit and wait and see which stock rises or which stock falls.

Texas Homer
06-03-2010, 12:35 PM
I voted (B).

FlyingElvis
06-03-2010, 12:48 PM
I want to give it an A but there are too many upside guys. I agree this could be a monster A++ type of draft list in a few years but can't vote that now.

bigbluedefense
06-05-2010, 08:50 AM
I honestly don't get why so many giants fans are upset with the pick. Who else were you gonna take at 15 at that exact moment?

McClain? Gone
Spiller? Gone
Spoon? Doesn't fit the system

The only 3 guys I can think of are Anthony Davis, Iupati, and Bulaga. I'm not a huge Bulaga fan, so there goes that. Davis is like a LT version of JPP but with more red flags in my eyes (although more polished), and Iupati is a Guard at the end of the day, and we don't need Guards, we need either a Right or Left Tackle.

I rather roll the dice on JPP and see what happens. JPP busting isn't going to hurt the Giants much at all, its not like our fate rested on our 1st round pick. We had a chance to roll the dice, and we did. Considering that DE is a need position for us anyway, and JPP was the best DE on the board, arguably in the draft, why not?

If it works out, we cash in big time. If it doesnt, we'll survive.

What else was Reese supposed to do? Give up too much to move up for an overrated MIKE in McClain? Or move up for a RB, a position that can be had at any point in the draft?

Or reach for a player? I think JPP was the right pick when you consider the circumstances.

LonghornsLegend
06-05-2010, 02:50 PM
I thought there were alot of Giants fans who wanted Spoon before and felt he fit just fine? I'm not sure where you guys were going to play him, Mike in a Cover 2 type system seems like it could work, granted I like him alot more in Atlanta as a weakside guy but I think it could of worked.


I think Atlanta was somewhat expecting NY to scoop him up if McClain was gone, they were probably one of the fastest picks of the 1st rounds once they realized he was still available. I think it had to be between him and JPP and they were probably trying to figure out who would be the best player in 2-3 years and went with who they felt would.

Rosebud
06-05-2010, 04:08 PM
I wouldn't have been opposed to spoon, although I do like JPP quite a bit more. The idea behind spoon was that everyone assumed Fewell would run a cover-2 because he had worked for Lovie and Jauron, the fact that he didn't run a cover-2 in Buffalo was neglected because we were all still pissed about Sheridan.

If we didn't grab JPP I wanted Dan Williams, I had them graded out as similar prospects with JPP having a little more upside and DW being a little safer at a more immediate position of need. That said I'm really happy with Linval Joseph in round two and was one of the few defending JPP before this draft so I'm really excited by this draft class.

onejayhawk
06-05-2010, 11:38 PM
DRAFT PICKS:

Round 1, Pick 15 (15) Jason Pierre-Paul DE 6'5" 270 South Florida
Brilliant pick. Maybe the best of round one in terms of value for the slot. JPP could have easily gone top 10.

Round 2, Pick 14 (46) Linval Joseph DT 6'4" 328 East Carolina
Another exceptional pick. In the old Parcell days, he would be a DE, but a road block DT works too. I think at least one team was trying to trade up for him.

Round 3, Pick 12 (76) Chad Jones FS 6'2" 221 LSU
Merely solid. Jones could have gone as much as half a round higher, but this is not the steal they had with JPP.

Round 4, Pick 17 (115) Phillip Dillard LB 6'0" 245 Nebraska
Mixed feelings. I will say, not a bad pick. Like R McClain, I wonder how much is attributable to the monster DT in front of him.

Round 5, Pick 16 (147) Mitch Petrus OG 6'3" 310 Arkansas
This is about right for Petrus. Not an immediate need, but then, he will not be an immediate help. If he can convert to center, this could be very nice.
Round 6, Pick 15 (184) Adrian Tracy DE 6'3" 248 William & Mary
Again, this is about the right place to take a conversion prospect. I pegged him as more of a 3-4 OLB, but that applies to JPP as well.

Round 7, Pick 14 (221) Matt Dodge P 6'1" 224 East Carolina
Oh. Football.

As many have stated, not an impact draft, but absolutely loaded with upside. In three years this will look very good. B+

bigbluedefense
06-06-2010, 09:31 AM
I thought there were alot of Giants fans who wanted Spoon before and felt he fit just fine? I'm not sure where you guys were going to play him, Mike in a Cover 2 type system seems like it could work, granted I like him alot more in Atlanta as a weakside guy but I think it could of worked.


I think Atlanta was somewhat expecting NY to scoop him up if McClain was gone, they were probably one of the fastest picks of the 1st rounds once they realized he was still available. I think it had to be between him and JPP and they were probably trying to figure out who would be the best player in 2-3 years and went with who they felt would.

I was a big Spoon supporter and actually liked him more than McClain. I was one of the guys who wanted him in NY.

However, that was when i was under the assumption that we were gonna run a pure Tampa 2 defense. While we may still run a variation of it, its becoming very clear and was becoming pretty clear right before the draft that we won't run a pure Tampa 2, and in that case Spoon doesn't fit at all.

Spoon is the prototype WILL linebacker in a 4-3 (with Daryl Washington arguably being just as good if not better), but in the MIKE position he'll only work in a Tampa 2, or if he has 2 huge DTs in front of him, neither of which we have. Since we already have Boley locked into the weakside, Spoon would only fit as a Tampa 2 MIKE for us.

Once I realized we're not running a pure Tampa, I decided against him. Plus after looking at more tape of him, I realized his instincts were subpar for a MIKE, and he can't shed blocks as well as you'd like out of a MIKE, so it wouldn't work as well as I initially thought. Still love hiim as a player, just didn't fit what we needed.

I was hoping Brandon Spikes would slip to us in round 3, but the Patriots stole him from us in the late 2nd. I had Brandon Spikes graded similarly to Rolando McClain. I feel that McClain is one of the most overrated players in this year's draft, and had he stayed 1 more year in school, wouldve graded out as a 2nd round pick once guys put more tape on him.

Still a good player, but no way in hell worth a top 10 selection (McClain). Fwiw, I wouldve been ok with us taking McClain at 15, bc he fits our biggest need and was what we need inside from a skillset standpoint, however, Id feel it would be bad value at pick 15.

As Rosebud stated, Dan Williams would be another guy I wouldn't mind at 15, but after nabbing Joseph in the 2nd, I think we got better value selected JPP in the 1st and Joseph in the 2nd opposed to getting Williams in the 1st.

The only guys, looking back at this 3 years from now, that I would compare to JPP at 15 for us would be Iupati, Anthony Davis, and Brian Bulaga. I think you can make a good argument for us taking 1 of those 3 guys over JPP. So 3 years from now, we'll see if we were better off taking 1 of those 3 guys, or if we made the right move with JPP. Only time will tell.

Im sure there will be better players in different positions that were taken after JPP that in hindsight we'll say "shouldve taken him", but realistically, they weren't positions we'd consider at the time, so I don't count those players as guys to compare to JPP.

I guess we can throw Derrick Morgan's name in there as well, but i feel pretty confident that JPP will be better than Morgan.

bigbluedefense
06-06-2010, 09:36 AM
DRAFT PICKS:

Round 1, Pick 15 (15) Jason Pierre-Paul DE 6'5" 270 South Florida
Brilliant pick. Maybe the best of round one in terms of value for the slot. JPP could have easily gone top 10.

Round 2, Pick 14 (46) Linval Joseph DT 6'4" 328 East Carolina
Another exceptional pick. In the old Parcell days, he would be a DE, but a road block DT works too. I think at least one team was trying to trade up for him.

Round 3, Pick 12 (76) Chad Jones FS 6'2" 221 LSU
Merely solid. Jones could have gone as much as half a round higher, but this is not the steal they had with JPP.

Round 4, Pick 17 (115) Phillip Dillard LB 6'0" 245 Nebraska
Mixed feelings. I will say, not a bad pick. Like R McClain, I wonder how much is attributable to the monster DT in front of him.

Round 5, Pick 16 (147) Mitch Petrus OG 6'3" 310 Arkansas
This is about right for Petrus. Not an immediate need, but then, he will not be an immediate help. If he can convert to center, this could be very nice.
Round 6, Pick 15 (184) Adrian Tracy DE 6'3" 248 William & Mary
Again, this is about the right place to take a conversion prospect. I pegged him as more of a 3-4 OLB, but that applies to JPP as well.

Round 7, Pick 14 (221) Matt Dodge P 6'1" 224 East Carolina
Oh. Football.

As many have stated, not an impact draft, but absolutely loaded with upside. In three years this will look very good. B+

If Petrus can become our future Center, I'll be thrilled. I've been asking for us to take a Center for the future for 3 years now. Im not a big Shaun O'Hara fan.

He sounds like he'll be more of a Guard in our offense, but I wouldn't mind us trying to turn him into a Center. He's raw and really needs to work on his lower body strength, so he's a good year or 2 away from being anything worth a damn, if he ever becomes anything at all.

Rosebud
06-06-2010, 12:13 PM
Well we could've still Drafted Joseph to pair with DW...then again I think I'm the only giants fan who wanted two DTs out of this draft, my dream was Brian Price falling to us in round two and then a trade up for Joseph or Troup.

BaLLiN
06-06-2010, 05:28 PM
Well we could've still Drafted Joseph to pair with DW...then again I think I'm the only giants fan who wanted two DTs out of this draft, my dream was Brian Price falling to us in round two and then a trade up for Joseph or Troup.

I wanted two DT's but the one we shouldve gotten in Geno Atkins which was rumored to be a trade for Barry Cofield in exchange for a pick.

for all you guys who love JPP... He can do a backflip over the OT and then sack the QB, oh wait he can't wrap up... never mind, he'll be the half time show.

Rosebud
06-06-2010, 05:45 PM
I wanted two DT's but the one we shouldve gotten in Geno Atkins which was rumored to be a trade for Barry Cofield in exchange for a pick.

for all you guys who love JPP... He can do a backflip over the OT and then sack the QB, oh wait he can't wrap up... never mind, he'll be the half time show.

Intentional irony?

bigbluedefense
06-07-2010, 07:22 AM
I love Geno Atkins. I wanted him later in the draft too.

JPP is a project, no one is denying that. He's not gonna do squat this year, we'll be lucky if we see him on 3rd downs.

2-3 years from now, thats when we'll know what we have in him. I think we can mold him into a beast. If we can teach Mario Manningham how to be a WR in Gilbride's complicated run and shoot route offense, we can teach JPP how to rush the passer. Its not that complicated.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-08-2010, 09:28 AM
I love Geno Atkins. I wanted him later in the draft too.

JPP is a project, no one is denying that. He's not gonna do squat this year, we'll be lucky if we see him on 3rd downs.

2-3 years from now, thats when we'll know what we have in him. I think we can mold him into a beast. If we can teach Mario Manningham how to be a WR in Gilbride's complicated run and shoot route offense, we can teach JPP how to rush the passer. Its not that complicated.

This is Coughlin's system not Gilbrides system. But some of the rules are based on Gilbride's system I believe. The WR rules is specifically what I am refering to. It would seem that Manningham now has enough time to let all this settle in. Hopefully the thinking part can become instinctual, thus allowing him to worry about getting open and making plays.

bigbluedefense
06-08-2010, 10:27 AM
This is Coughlin's system not Gilbrides system. But some of the rules are based on Gilbride's system I believe. The WR rules is specifically what I am refering to. It would seem that Manningham now has enough time to let all this settle in. Hopefully the thinking part can become instinctual, thus allowing him to worry about getting open and making plays.

Yeah.

My main point in bringing him up was if we can teach that dumbass how to succeed in that complicated system, we should be able to teach JPP how to rush the passer. Its not nearly as complicated as being a WR.

He just needs time to develop. He has the athleticism and motor to succeed. And by all accounts ive read, hes a good kid. He's just very raw. But give him time, and we'll have a gem.

LizardState
06-08-2010, 10:28 AM
Voted D based on the needs identified, only Petrus & Dodge for the retired punter filed the specific needs per those listed.

I too disagree with those needs; PFW listed the NYG needs as
1) S
2) DT
3) LB
4) OT
5) C

And that seems closer to the mark given the health concerns of Kenny Phillips. PFW projected Tennant going to them, they had a chance for him but passed. McClain was also listed as a good fit & their pick in the PFW mock, but like also good fit CJ Spiller both were gone by the time they picked in the 1st rd.

If Petrus can play OG/C then he was appropriate. They got Chad Jones to fill the safety requirement but he is the 8th-ranked S, why didn't they take Nate Allen, who went to the division rival Eagles, or draft fast-riser Taylor Mays?

They emphasized D-line & that was supposed to be the strength of the team with the gangbusters start the Giants had in 09, they had just acquired Canty & Rocky Bernard through FA & Osi Umunyiora was the most feared DE in the NFL. Their d-line was among the biggest disappointments as the season ended, strong start & lame finish. So their solution was taking JPP 1st? That raises more questions than it answers: Did Coughlin know something about the injury & other aspects of their DL that the sports press didn't? Is age on the G-Men defense becoming a major concern, has Osi declined as badly as thought? Is Robbins done as a starter at age 33? Given all that I can see why they went d-line but JPP was a major reach & I agree with bigbluedefense, he's at best a project.

Their primary focus should have been a safety who could play immediately & that didnt happen.

bigbluedefense
06-08-2010, 10:34 AM
Voted D based on the needs identified, only Petrus & Dodge for the retired punter filed the specific needs per those listed.

I too disagree with those needs; PFW listed the NYG needs as
1) S
2) DT
3) LB
4) OT
5) C

And that seems closer to the mark given the health concerns of Kenny Phillips. PFW projected Tennant going to them, they had a chance for him but passed. McClain was also listed as a good fit & their pick in the PFW mock, but like also good fit CJ Spiller both were gone by the time they picked in the 1st rd.

If Petrus can play OG/C then he was appropriate. They got Chad Jones to fill the safety requirement but he is the 8th-ranked S, why didn't they take Nate Allen, who went to the division rival Eagles, or draft fast-riser Taylor Mays?

They emphasized D-line & that was supposed to be the strength of the team with the gangbusters start the Giants had in 09, they had just acquired Canty & Rocky Bernard through FA & Osi Umunyiora was the most feared DE in the NFL. Their d-line was among the biggest disappointments as the season ended, strong start & lame finish. So their solution was taking JPP 1st? That raises more questions than it answers: Did Coughlin know something about the injury & other aspects of their DL that the sports press didn't? Is age on the G-Men defense becoming a major concern, has Osi declined as badly as thought? Is Robbins done as a starter at age 33? Given all that I can see why they went d-line but JPP was a major reach & I agree with bigbluedefense, he's at best a project.

Their primary focus should have been a safety who could play immediately & that didnt happen.

Robbins is off the team. He signed with St. Louis.

We only have 1 NT on the team, Barry Coffield who is average, and is out the door after this year, so we needed a replacement, so Joseph makes perfect sense at that point.

We took JPP bc we use a 3 DE rotation, and we won't sign Kiwi back after this year, so we needed his replacement. Plus with the uncertainty of Osi and the injury history of Tuck, we needed to bolster our pass rush.

I don't think safety was a 1st round need. We signed Antrell Rolle in the offseason, and we drafted a raw developmental SS in the 3rd in case KP can't hold up all season. Jones has upside, and was good value I felt in the 3rd.

I do think we should have gotten Tennant, I hope we don't regret that. Basically, I understand why we did what we did. It makes sense, its just isn't popular among the masses because superficially it looks like we didn't address what we needed to address. But when you look at the underlying problems with our team last year, we drafted appropriately.

Lots of risks in this draft.

Rosebud
06-08-2010, 04:15 PM
Voted D based on the needs identified, only Petrus & Dodge for the retired punter filed the specific needs per those listed.

I too disagree with those needs; PFW listed the NYG needs as
1) S
2) DT
3) LB
4) OT
5) C

And that seems closer to the mark given the health concerns of Kenny Phillips. PFW projected Tennant going to them, they had a chance for him but passed. McClain was also listed as a good fit & their pick in the PFW mock, but like also good fit CJ Spiller both were gone by the time they picked in the 1st rd.

If Petrus can play OG/C then he was appropriate. They got Chad Jones to fill the safety requirement but he is the 8th-ranked S, why didn't they take Nate Allen, who went to the division rival Eagles, or draft fast-riser Taylor Mays?

They emphasized D-line & that was supposed to be the strength of the team with the gangbusters start the Giants had in 09, they had just acquired Canty & Rocky Bernard through FA & Osi Umunyiora was the most feared DE in the NFL. Their d-line was among the biggest disappointments as the season ended, strong start & lame finish. So their solution was taking JPP 1st? That raises more questions than it answers: Did Coughlin know something about the injury & other aspects of their DL that the sports press didn't? Is age on the G-Men defense becoming a major concern, has Osi declined as badly as thought? Is Robbins done as a starter at age 33? Given all that I can see why they went d-line but JPP was a major reach & I agree with bigbluedefense, he's at best a project.

Their primary focus should have been a safety who could play immediately & that didnt happen.

I guess I'll start by explaining our needs. Our biggest and most obvious concern was on the inside of our DL where Canty suffered from injuries, Alford was gone for the season due to an ACL tear, the same injury that lead to Osi's bad year in his first year back this year, Robbens age started catching up with him big time as he became largely useless, Bernard was constantly banged up and far more useless than Big Fred, and Barry Cofield who did what Barry Cofield do, be a solid to mediocre backup Nose depending on health. Robbens is now gone to St Louis leaving us with Canty, Cofield, Bernard and Jay Alford coming off of an injury that'll likely limit him early in the year. Canty's a good starter and Cofield's an solid rotational player, but what about the other spots? Alford pencils in as the guy filling Canty's spot off of the bench, but who knows what we'll actually get from him. We desperately needed someone who could provide some impact next to Canty. In my eyes this was our biggest need heading into the draft and I actually wanted 2 quality DTs just so if Alford was ineffective because of his recovery this year we could have someone other than Cofield.

Our other needs weren't as well definied. At Linebacker Michael Boley is the only guy we're sure will make a big impact, but Jonathon Goff stepped in and looked pretty solid considering the mess that was happening in front of him. He was strong against the run and showed a good understanding of what he's supposed to be doing in zone and quite frankly looked just as good as AP has done since he got fat a couple years ago. So while of course an upgrade to a Stud like McClain or Spikes would've been nice, but this wasn't a pressing need the way DT was.

At safety if all goes well we should be beastly, Antrel Rolle playing the Byrd role in Fewell's secondary should be glorious and if Kenny's healthy he's a stud cleaning up behind that. But that's the thing, we can't fully trust Kenny's knee to hold up so we needed a backup who could step in if the knee becomes an issue. I think this was more pressing than LB just because Kenny's knee could end his season again and we'd be in a tough spot, meanwhile I see the worst issue at MLB being that Goff's mediocre which is a lot better than the god awfullness we would've been subject to had Michael Johnson or Deon Grant been forced to step in next to Rolle.

Defensive End is a position where if all goes well we can dominate, problem is that last proved just how vulnerable we can be if everything goes wrong. Justin Tuck messed up his shoulder after Flozell tripped him in the first Dallas game which seriously affected his power and effectiveness all year. Osi was coming off of a bad injury and just wasn't the Osi we're used to seeing, he got blown away in the running game and wasn't exceptional off of the edge either. Now that begs the question is Osi done or did he just need more time to recover? I think Osi will return to form or at least get close, but that's a risk that with his age you have to keep in mind. Now to the final member of our troika, Kiwi. Boy did we **** this kid's development up or what? Moving him to LB and then moving him back has crippled his development as a DE, he's a good run stuffer and he gets pressure, but he still hasn't been able to bulk up enough to turn those pressures into sacks and truly take his game to the next level. This is a big problem since he's only got one year left on his deal so we need to know if he's always just going to be a good bench player or if he can tap into that monstrous potential he had coming out. So you've got one injury prone lock for the future, one guy who might be done and is getting older anyway and one guy who's contract's up next year and we still don't know what we have in him. Considering how important this position is to our team we needed a project to groom for this year who would be able to take on a major role next year.

Then there's SLB, Clint Sintim is the guy in this spot for now but he's unproven. The kid's shown he can be a monster against the run here and he's a good pass rusher with his hand in the dirt, but there's still some questions about whether or not he'll be a success. This is a spot where we could use another project in case Sintim fails. I doubt he will because he is a beast against the run and a good pass rusher so even if he's bad in coverage we'll be able to cover him up, but we can't be sure.

Finally arguably our biggest issue last year, the OL, Seubert and O'Hara have gotten old quick and McKenzie's tendency to get nicked up is only getting worse with age as that back is starting to give way. What we did have going for us was one stud RG, one stud LG who is a good OT on both sides as well and William Beatty, Beatty is a personal favorite because for such a scrawny kid he has a great understanding of run blocking, he was a force in the running game at Uconn and he's done well despite his lack of strength and size when he stepped in for us. This year he should be bigger, stronger and our starting LT as he's already better with speed rushers than David Diehl. That means we're set at 3 of 5 positions with a collection of older vets and a solid backup swing tackle in Guy Whimper to fill the other two spots. I had Matt Tennant penciled in for us from the moment I saw him play, a smart, agile and tough kid from BC should've given Coughlin wood and would've pretty much guaranteed that the offensive line wouldn't fall apart again this coming season.

Now that you know about our needs do our picks make more sense? JPP as the DE project with elite potential, Joseph the DT who can become a force next to Canty for a long time, Jones as the SS project to groom in case Kenny's knee becomes an issue, Dillard as insurance and depth behind Goff, Petrus as a project for the OL, Tracy as the project in case Sintim doesn't work out or gets injured and Dodge as the replacement for the retired Jeff Feagles. The only change I would made is I would've at least thought about Matt Tennant in round 4 and jumped on him in round 5. Petrus has more raw talent, but I feel like Tennant can step in quickly and would be a perfect replacement for O'Hara and fit for our blocking scheme.

Abaddon
06-09-2010, 10:31 AM
Jets now, yes?

NY+Giants=NYG
06-10-2010, 08:25 AM
You don't fill needs in the draft. Well good teams go BPA and get the best player at that pick. Now ideally you want the needs to match the best player available, but filling needs is what free agency and undrafted free agents are for. Specifically to our team, we go BPA. So for people saying we didn't fill needs, really are looking for the wrong philosophy in regards to this specific team. We fill needs 6th or perhaps 7th round. Before that we go best player available. Filling needs is what free agency and undrafted FA trying to make the teams are for. The draft is for creating a big board, and then picking the best players at your given pick.

LizardState
06-10-2010, 09:19 AM
You don't fill needs in the draft.

What's the over/under on that quote as a sig before the day is over?

I'm aware of the differences in philosophy between the BPA & team needs approaches to the draft, both have upsides & downsides. If you're the Giants & finish as badly as they did last season & don't fill needs until the 6th or 7th rds, you have to ask wtf are they thinking? That's the kind of fuel the NY tabloid press feeds on when they say the Giants & Coughlin are clueless.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-10-2010, 11:52 AM
What's the over/under on that quote as a sig before the day is over?

I'm aware of the differences in philosophy between the BPA & team needs approaches to the draft, both have upsides & downsides. If you're the Giants & finish as badly as they did last season & don't fill needs until the 6th or 7th rds, you have to ask wtf are they thinking? That's the kind of fuel the NY tabloid press feeds on when they say the Giants & Coughlin are clueless.

No you don't because you have to take into consideration other factors, such as injuries and having the worst DC, a 1 year wonder on the planet. We fixed those issues, got healthier, and signed some free agents to help. Now we have to rely on our draft class mixed with current players in this new system. We filled our needs and we got our best player available throughout the draft too.

This is not like shopping at the mall, where you see you need pants and so buy them. In the draft, Jerry Reese, sticks to the BPA strategy. True, both have their pros and cons, but this mentality that people grade us poorly because we failed to fill our needs is assinine in it's own right.

Damix
06-10-2010, 12:44 PM
I would have taken Pouncey over JPP, only argument really.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-10-2010, 03:35 PM
I would have taken Pouncey over JPP, only argument really.

Yeah well not in love with the pick. But when the people in the room have JPP 6th on the board, and when you're picking at 15, and that 6th ranked player is there, then even I have to admit it would be dumb not picking JPP. As much as I dislike the pick, I do respect the GM, coaches, and scouts, for sticking to the board.

bigbluedefense
06-10-2010, 07:17 PM
I would have taken Pouncey over JPP, only argument really.

I like Pouncey, but picking a Center at 15 is just way too high. And while he's a good center, he's not so good to me that you have to take him at 15.

I rather go after Iupati at that point, and move Diehl to RT.

RaiderNation
06-11-2010, 04:20 PM
Lets move onto the Raiders draft :)

scottyboy
06-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Voted D based on the needs identified, only Petrus & Dodge for the retired punter filed the specific needs per those listed.

I too disagree with those needs; PFW listed the NYG needs as
1) S
2) DT
3) LB
4) OT
5) C

And that seems closer to the mark given the health concerns of Kenny Phillips. PFW projected Tennant going to them, they had a chance for him but passed. McClain was also listed as a good fit & their pick in the PFW mock, but like also good fit CJ Spiller both were gone by the time they picked in the 1st rd.

If Petrus can play OG/C then he was appropriate. They got Chad Jones to fill the safety requirement but he is the 8th-ranked S, why didn't they take Nate Allen, who went to the division rival Eagles, or draft fast-riser Taylor Mays?

They emphasized D-line & that was supposed to be the strength of the team with the gangbusters start the Giants had in 09, they had just acquired Canty & Rocky Bernard through FA & Osi Umunyiora was the most feared DE in the NFL. Their d-line was among the biggest disappointments as the season ended, strong start & lame finish. So their solution was taking JPP 1st? That raises more questions than it answers: Did Coughlin know something about the injury & other aspects of their DL that the sports press didn't? Is age on the G-Men defense becoming a major concern, has Osi declined as badly as thought? Is Robbins done as a starter at age 33? Given all that I can see why they went d-line but JPP was a major reach & I agree with bigbluedefense, he's at best a project.

Their primary focus should have been a safety who could play immediately & that didnt happen.

you really don't understand much about the Giants, their needs, or the draft, do you?