View Full Version : Bucs sign Cato June
Woody56
03-17-2007, 12:04 PM
http://www.buccaneers.com/news/newsdetail.aspx?newsid=5706
cardsalltheway
03-17-2007, 12:07 PM
Probably the best possible situation for him.
toonsterwu
03-17-2007, 12:10 PM
Nice move for both sides, akin to Ian Gold going there a few years ago. Screws up the mock I had been slowly working on a bit, but it's a good move. Nice immediate upgrade, and while the contract numbers haven't been released, my bet is that it's a 1 year deal and he'll get a shot to test the market again next year.
Chucky
03-17-2007, 12:13 PM
that is good news . do u think the bucs might switch him to safety
No, I believe Bucs signed him as LB.
Good addition, he's a good fit.
Xiomera
03-17-2007, 12:17 PM
that is good news . do u think the bucs might switch him to safety
No . . . he wasn't a very good safety at Michigan.
remix 6
03-17-2007, 12:22 PM
that is good news . do u think the bucs might switch him to safety
no..they run the same defense as colts.
We always have prioritized linebacker depth, but I don't know what kind of playing time he expects to receive, or what we expect to give. Now Scott has to change his Bucs mock again :D
no..they run the same defense as colts.
The Colts didn't have Derrick Brooks starting in his position.....
Sveen
03-17-2007, 12:24 PM
Good signing by the Bucs.
redbuc
03-17-2007, 12:24 PM
According to this article, June will compete at strongside linebacker or play strong safety.
http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/view/2923
This is interesting, Derrick Brooks still is the better WLB of the two. Then again, this is the Buccaneers and Jon Gruden we're talking about.
Strongside linebacker? Good luck with that.
cardsalltheway
03-17-2007, 12:25 PM
We always have prioritized linebacker depth, but I don't know what kind of playing time he expects to receive, or what we expect to give. Now Scott has to change his Bucs mock again :D
He will most likely start.
He will most likely start.
Ryan Nece has been our starting SLB for 2 years, I don't think Cato June is going to change that......
Unless of course you think he will start at SS
Woody56
03-17-2007, 12:33 PM
i think brooks is going to move to SLB and June stay at WLB
cardsalltheway
03-17-2007, 12:35 PM
Ryan Nece has been our starting SLB for 2 years, I don't think Cato June is going to change that......
Unless of course you think he will start at SS
Yeah he definitely could change that. I think Brooks and Cato will both be the outside backers, not sure who will play where though. Once the contract numbers come in we'll have a better idea of what kind of playing time he'll be getting.
Bradentonian
03-17-2007, 12:36 PM
I was really hoping to see Winborn on the field more this year with the potential to take over for Brooks
SeanTaylorRIP
03-17-2007, 12:37 PM
Interested to see the price tag on this.
If they plan on him playing strong safety I'm sure the OC's in the NFC South are already licking their chops. He's perfect for their system at LB tho.
Yeah he definitely could change that. I think Brooks and Cato will both be the outside backers, not sure who will play where though. Once the contract numbers come in we'll have a better idea of what kind of playing time he'll be getting.
I don't think there is any way he would go somewhere he wouldn't be starting.
Space Ghost
03-17-2007, 12:40 PM
Fits the scheme, not going to answer the question if he can play outside of that defense though.
toonsterwu
03-17-2007, 12:42 PM
I think he'll beat out Nece for the strongside job, and while he's not an ideal fit for the strongside job, he can do a decent-solid job there potentially, akin to Ian Gold a few years ago. I don't think there's anyway he signed there unless he was told he'd have a good shot to start. I guess it's possible that they work him in the middle, although that would require improved DT POA play to protect him.
RaVeNFaNaCtIc
03-17-2007, 01:07 PM
Thank god he is not coming to b-more.
Booger
03-17-2007, 01:11 PM
If they plan on him playing strong safety I'm sure the OC's in the NFC South are already licking their chops. He's perfect for their system at LB tho.
Yeah, cause the thought of Jermaine Phillips at SS sends shivers up their spines.
In my opinion, there are two places to play June, weakside LB and SS. So unless Brooks is going to change positions, I see June playing safety.
Merlin
03-17-2007, 01:22 PM
Why would we sign a all-pro LB to play S???
Why would we sign a all-pro LB to play S???
You wouldn't unless you're an idiot.
TACKLE
03-17-2007, 01:27 PM
Good pick up by the Bucs. Fits well in their Cover 2 scheme.
Bruschi54
03-17-2007, 01:29 PM
Why would we sign a all-pro LB to play S???
All-pro is a bit of a stretch but there's no way he plays safety..
scottyboy
03-17-2007, 01:30 PM
i read on espn its a 3yr $12 mil deal(or slightly above 12 mil)
not a bad contract for either side
Why would we sign a all-pro LB to play S???
Because this "all-pro LB" is weak against the run and misses a lot of tackles. He is not tough enough to play SLB, and why have Brooks change positions when he has been an amazing WLB his whole career? He is either playing SS or backing up Derrick.
Dam8610
03-17-2007, 01:32 PM
All-pro is a bit of a stretch but there's no way he plays safety..
I think he meant Pro Bowl LB? If so, it's not that much of a stretch considering he was a Pro Bowler in 2005.
Because this "all-pro LB" is weak against the run and misses a lot of tackles. He is not tough enough to play SLB, and why have Brooks change positions when he has been an amazing WLB his whole career? He is either playing SS or backing up Derrick.
He's 3 lbs heavier than their current SLB Nece....you're right about the fact they will be soft against the run tho. I'm guessing they address their DL situation in the draft tho.
Flyboy
03-17-2007, 01:57 PM
Good signing by the Bucs.
I agree. Gives McAllister a new Buc to run over. ;) :)
Merlin
03-17-2007, 02:03 PM
I think he meant Pro Bowl LB? If so, it's not that much of a stretch considering he was a Pro Bowler in 2005.Thank you, sorry for any confusion.
Yeh, he misses tackles, so does Urlacher, my point being who doesn't, In 2004 – June’s first year as a starter – he led his team in tackles, posting 128 stops. Pro Bowl honors followed the season after, and last year June’s 162 tackles were again a team-high.
I'll take that anyday.
Booger
03-17-2007, 02:26 PM
I agree. Gives McAllister a new Buc to run over. ;) :)
Damn, tough to respond to that one. McAllister gives the Bucs a lot of problems, none of which June will improve on.
He'll be another Buc to play well against the Vick's and Reggie Bush's of the division though.
princefielder28
03-17-2007, 02:44 PM
Good fit, little suprise it took this long for him to sign with someone
Thank you, sorry for any confusion.
Yeh, he misses tackles, so does Urlacher, my point being who doesn't, In 2004 – June’s first year as a starter – he led his team in tackles, posting 128 stops. Pro Bowl honors followed the season after, and last year June’s 162 tackles were again a team-high.
I'll take that anyday.
Stats mean nothing for linebackers, just watch him play and you will understand why the Colts didn't want him back and why I am unimpressed by the signing.
Flyboy is right, McAllister will truck June all day.
TheChampIsHere
03-17-2007, 02:51 PM
yeah hes obviously not gonna take the WLB spot from Brooks...itll be interesting to see what they do with him.
shavedaeyebrow2
03-17-2007, 02:52 PM
I like the signing, nice job by the Bucs.
eaglesalltheway
03-17-2007, 03:04 PM
TB just got a guy who can play, but I'm not sure if he can play for Tampa. He is very small, and may get run over by the running attacks that he will face two time per year in NO, ATL, and CAR.
Stash
03-17-2007, 03:26 PM
I think it is a good pickup for the Bucs, he is young and should fit in well in their scheme. How many years does Brooks have left in the tank? They will probably use June opposite Brooks, and then have him replace Brooks when he retires.
Caddy
03-17-2007, 03:46 PM
I think it is a good pickup for the Bucs, he is young and should fit in well in their scheme. How many years does Brooks have left in the tank? They will probably use June opposite Brooks, and then have him replace Brooks when he retires.
Thats what I see happening, I think he is an upgrade over Nece.
KCJ58
03-17-2007, 04:12 PM
Good signing by the Bucs
Bucsfan
03-17-2007, 04:19 PM
great signing, makes me really happy :)
Merlin
03-17-2007, 04:21 PM
Stats mean nothing for linebackers, just watch him play and you will understand why the Colts didn't want him back and why I am unimpressed by the signing.
Flyboy is right, McAllister will truck June all day.I wouldn't say stats mean nothing??
They certanly don't tell the whole story obviously, I have watched him play, and as I said previously, he'll miss tackles, who doesn't?, but he'll also make plenty of plays for us, as he did in Indy, hell, thats football!
As for you being unimpressed, your entitled to your opinion.
That's what I hope for from him, some big plays and touchdowns, but he is not a steady starting OLB. He needs to be on the field on passing downs though.
Flyboy
03-17-2007, 04:38 PM
Damn, tough to respond to that one. McAllister gives the Bucs a lot of problems, none of which June will improve on.
I was saying it as a joke more than anything. :)
bigbluedefense
03-17-2007, 05:00 PM
The rumors of him being in a Giants uniform sent chills down my spine. Im so happy he's anywhere but our team. Whew, that was close. We almost took part in some Cover 2 suckdom.
So far, the fact that Reese isn't doing a damn thing in FA is really starting to win me over. So far an A+ goes to our first year GM. This guy gets it.
As for the Bucs, dont discount Brooks moving to SAM. He played some SAM for them just this past year, and is slowing down. I don't think you sign Cato June to play SS. He's either at WILL or at SAM. I see them moving Brooks over and playing Cato at WILL.
Don't know how I feel about the signing. Its ok if its for cheap, but they still need some LBs in the draft.
Caddy
03-17-2007, 05:03 PM
We almost took part in some Cover 2 suckdom.
Yeh, because the Cover 2 defense sure didn't work for the Colts or Bears last year.
bigbluedefense
03-17-2007, 05:07 PM
Yeh, because the Cover 2 defense sure didn't work for the Colts or Bears last year.
For 85% of the year, the Colts defense was embarrassing to say the least. And Chicago's defense wasn't exactly dominant in the 2nd half of the season, or the playoffs either.
Caddy
03-17-2007, 05:11 PM
For 85% of the year, the Colts defense was embarrassing to say the least. And Chicago's defense wasn't exactly dominant in the 2nd half of the season, or the playoffs either.
Both Superbowl teams ran the Cover 2 system so to say it is "suckdom " is a vast overstatement on your part.
bigbluedefense
03-17-2007, 05:22 PM
Both Superbowl teams ran the Cover 2 system so to say it is "suckdom " is a vast overstatement on your part.
I can agree with that. Ive made it known that Im not a fan of the Cover 2/Tampa 2 scheme at all. So I sometimes generalize unfairly.
Ive just never seen a truely dominant Cover 2 defense. Only the 2001 Bucs had a dominant Cover 2. The rest of the Cover 2 teams were not that great quite honestly. Even these current Bears. Urlacher lost a lot of points in my eyes after Jeff Saturday destroyed him in the SB. 200 yards rushing is unexceptable if you want to take shots at the 85 Bears team the way Urlacher did. Especially when most of those 200 yards were right at you.
draftguru151
03-17-2007, 05:49 PM
The June kids always know what they are getting for Christmas because daddy can't wrap anything up.
JCshutEmDown
03-17-2007, 06:02 PM
25% of the Bucs schedule is against Michael Vick and Reggie Bush. June's speed is needed.
If you're going to copy/paste Football Outsiders' material, you should at least give credit.
“Cato really wanted to stay there and I know how badly they [Colts] wanted him,’’ Mackler said. “It just didn’t work out.’’
Agents are funny people.
[i]June was instrumental in the Colts winning their first Super Bowl championship in 36 years.
June was much more instrumental in Mo Drew breaking runs of 20+ yards.
TACKLE
03-17-2007, 06:09 PM
It will be interesting where he plays. Derrick Brooks is their current WLB and Cato June is certainly not fitted to play SAM backer. Wonder if they'll move Brooks to SAM.
Dam8610
03-17-2007, 06:25 PM
For 85% of the year, the Colts defense was embarrassing to say the least. And Chicago's defense wasn't exactly dominant in the 2nd half of the season, or the playoffs either.
When Tampa 2 teams lose their best DT and S, they tend to fall off a bit. For the Colts, they didn't have Simon at all, and Sanders missed most of the season, and for the Bears, the slide in performance of their defense corrolates perfectly with the losses of Mike Brown (when their run defense started to fall off) and Tommie Harris (when they started giving up points in bunches). You don't like the scheme and that's fine, but you're criticizing it a bit unfairly here.
My only beef with the Cover 2 is how it is a bend but don't break defense, but Peyton Manning seems to just tear apart the Cover 2 with ease. Without the right players (Bucs 06), the Cover 2 doesn't get you enough big plays defensively.
bigbluedefense
03-17-2007, 07:06 PM
When Tampa 2 teams lose their best DT and S, they tend to fall off a bit. For the Colts, they didn't have Simon at all, and Sanders missed most of the season, and for the Bears, the slide in performance of their defense corrolates perfectly with the losses of Mike Brown (when their run defense started to fall off) and Tommie Harris (when they started giving up points in bunches). You don't like the scheme and that's fine, but you're criticizing it a bit unfairly here.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Cover 2 debate. And I'll cede the point that at times I can be unfair in my evaluation of the scheme.
But the issue bolded is a big problem for me scheme wise. The Cover 2 relies on the SS to stop the run the way normal defenses rely on ILBs. Now thats fine and dandy for one game, but over a 16 week season + playoffs, its awfully demanding of an undersized SS to hold up all season under these conditions. And thats why you see the SS get injured often, and Cover 2 teams taper off at the end of the season, when you want to be at your best.
I understand injuries can't be expected and are part of the game, but this scheme makes the SS much more susceptible to being injured, and thus I don't know if its a viable excuse. It should almost be expected, unless you have a John Lynch type of SS who is thick enough to handle the burden. But then, your pass coverage suffers, so its a double edged sword. The Cover 2 scheme is probably at its best if theres solid depth at SS. I think its essential to have 2 starting caliber strong safeties in this scheme if you don't want to see production taper off at the end of the season. A rotation would be ideal, keeping both fresh for the playoffs.
Dam8610
03-17-2007, 09:25 PM
I don't want to turn this thread into a Cover 2 debate. And I'll cede the point that at times I can be unfair in my evaluation of the scheme.
But the issue bolded is a big problem for me scheme wise. The Cover 2 relies on the SS to stop the run the way normal defenses rely on ILBs. Now thats fine and dandy for one game, but over a 16 week season + playoffs, its awfully demanding of an undersized SS to hold up all season under these conditions. And thats why you see the SS get injured often, and Cover 2 teams taper off at the end of the season, when you want to be at your best.
I understand injuries can't be expected and are part of the game, but this scheme makes the SS much more susceptible to being injured, and thus I don't know if its a viable excuse. It should almost be expected, unless you have a John Lynch type of SS who is thick enough to handle the burden. But then, your pass coverage suffers, so its a double edged sword. The Cover 2 scheme is probably at its best if theres solid depth at SS. I think its essential to have 2 starting caliber strong safeties in this scheme if you don't want to see production taper off at the end of the season. A rotation would be ideal, keeping both fresh for the playoffs.
You make a valid point about safety depth being important to a Tampa 2 team, but in the same vein, LB depth is important to a team that relies on its LBs to be the playmakers of the defense. It's always tough to replace a good-great player at a position of key importance in any scheme. That said, your idea of a rotation intrigues me. It leads me to wonder even more what the Colts would have done had they had Sanders, Bethea, and Doss all healthy for the entire season. Perhaps a rotation would be for the best if a team has the talent and depth at the position to pull it off.
Shiver
03-17-2007, 10:33 PM
Without the right players (Bucs 06), the Cover 2 doesn't get you enough big plays defensively.
That could be said about any scheme. Washington's 4-3 blitz of '06, Cleveland's 3-4 defense, for example off the top of my head. The Tampa 2 can be dominant, like the '99-'02 Bucs, the Bears when healthy the past two seasons. Overall, I don't care for 'bend but don't break' defenses, but they have been proven to work in the right situations.
That could be said about any scheme. Washington's 4-3 blitz of '06, Cleveland's 3-4 defense, for example off the top of my head. The Tampa 2 can be dominant, like the '99-'02 Bucs, the Bears when healthy the past two seasons. Overall, I don't care for 'bend but don't break' defenses, but they have been proven to work in the right situations.
How did I know you would be the first smart person to point that out? I think the Cover 2 is the most dangerous defense to run without correct personnel, because if you can't make plays and stop the run in the Cover 2, you basically can't get your defense off the field. In a 3-4 blitz defense, you can occasionally get away with mediocre talent because the scheme alone can produce pressure and big plays.
Shiver
03-17-2007, 10:55 PM
How did I know you would be the first smart person to point that out? I think the Cover 2 is the most dangerous defense to run without correct personnel, because if you can't make plays and stop the run in the Cover 2, you basically can't get your defense off the field. In a 3-4 blitz defense, you can occasionally get away with mediocre talent because the scheme alone can produce pressure and big plays.
Occasionally, sure. But eventually you'll be found out, just like Dallas this year. New Orleans exposed them at the end of the year. After that they couldn't stop the bleeding.
MP123
03-17-2007, 10:59 PM
It's not surprising considering their history of losing linebackers in free agency. They've lost Gary Thornton to the Titans, Marcus Washington to the Redskins, Mike Peterson to the Jaguars, and Now Cato June to the Buccaneers. And I'm sure there are more to come in the future.
Shiver
03-17-2007, 11:05 PM
My motto; scheme is overrated, execution is everything.
niel89
03-17-2007, 11:26 PM
My motto; scheme is overrated, execution is everything.
i agree, you could have the best DC but if your players arent that talented and they cant execute then all that great scheme will fail. they need to go hand in hand to be truly effective
smittyjs
03-18-2007, 12:30 AM
VY>>Cato June
Damn i'm going to miss playing against him two times a season :(
smittyjs
03-18-2007, 12:31 AM
It's not surprising considering their history of losing linebackers in free agency. They've lost Gary Thornton to the Titans, Marcus Washington to the Redskins, Mike Peterson to the Jaguars, and Now Cato June to the Buccaneers. And I'm sure there are more to come in the future. David....;)
a-dub83
03-18-2007, 01:16 AM
It was nice to have you in board Cato, good luck with Tampa. Freddie Keiaho is likely to step into the WLB spot, who is a thumper as tackler. I expect him to be even better than June, heck I know he will. Hopefully we can land Jon Beason to play SSLB.
tylerb929
03-18-2007, 09:25 AM
I think Hagler will play the weak side. He has a year more experience and thats where he is placed on the depth chart, plus his measurables were rediculous. Keiaho should replace Morris for strong side by the end of the year in my opinion.
R.I.P DWILL DNASH
03-18-2007, 09:56 AM
I think it was a pretty good signing.
cardsalltheway
03-18-2007, 10:02 AM
It was nice to have you in board Cato, good luck with Tampa. Freddie Keiaho is likely to step into the WLB spot, who is a thumper as tackler. I expect him to be even better than June, heck I know he will. Hopefully we can land Jon Beason to play SSLB.
I think Keiaho is going to be the future MIKE or SAM rather than play WILL. And like tylerb said, Hagler is going to make a run at a starting job too.
bigbluedefense
03-18-2007, 10:40 AM
My motto; scheme is overrated, execution is everything.
My boy BP always says gameplan is overrated, execution is underrated.
But I will say this, while Im an X and O junky and love the schematics of the game, I think from a coaching standpoint, more important than the scheme itself is player utilization and adjustments. Thats what great coaches do.
tylerb929
03-18-2007, 11:00 AM
I think Keiaho is going to be the future MIKE or SAM rather than play WILL. And like tylerb said, Hagler is going to make a run at a starting job too.
Can't wait for Hagler to start.
Hagler's Campus/Combine results:
4.47 in the 40-yard dash
Bench pressed 225 pounds 35 times
445-pound bench press
485-pound squat
35½-inch vertical jump
10-foot-4 broad jump
Philliez01
03-18-2007, 02:53 PM
It was nice to have you in board Cato, good luck with Tampa. Freddie Keiaho is likely to step into the WLB spot, who is a thumper as tackler. I expect him to be even better than June, heck I know he will. Hopefully we can land Jon Beason to play SSLB.
Keiaho is the future MIKE in my opinion. He'll probably see some time at SAM but I do not expect him to start to be honest. I know the coaching staff is high on him but I just see him as a perfect MIKE. He isn't a WILL because his coverage ability is lacking to say the least.
a-dub83
03-18-2007, 07:21 PM
Keiaho is the future MIKE in my opinion. He'll probably see some time at SAM but I do not expect him to start to be honest. I know the coaching staff is high on him but I just see him as a perfect MIKE. He isn't a WILL because his coverage ability is lacking to say the least.
I agree, but if I'm not mistaken Gary Brackett is signed through 2009.
Dam8610
03-18-2007, 07:33 PM
Keiaho is the future MIKE in my opinion. He'll probably see some time at SAM but I do not expect him to start to be honest. I know the coaching staff is high on him but I just see him as a perfect MIKE. He isn't a WILL because his coverage ability is lacking to say the least.
His coverage ability is lacking but you want to put him at MIKE? Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Shiver
03-20-2007, 02:37 AM
My boy BP always says gameplan is overrated, execution is underrated.
But I will say this, while Im an X and O junky and love the schematics of the game, I think from a coaching standpoint, more important than the scheme itself is player utilization and adjustments. Thats what great coaches do.
Even so; when great coaches like Parcells and Belichick don't have the personnel to actually execute their schemes, the defense struggles. The Patriots of '05, for example, disproved the media's perception that the Patriots could 'plug in' anyone they wanted and have success. Though great coaches do get the most out of the hand they are dealt, to win on a consistent basis, you need to get some good hands as well.
bigbluedefense
03-20-2007, 08:57 AM
Even so; when great coaches like Parcells and Belichick don't have the personnel to actually execute their schemes, the defense struggles. The Patriots of '05, for example, disproved the media's perception that the Patriots could 'plug in' anyone they wanted and have success. Though great coaches do get the most out of the hand they are dealt, to win on a consistent basis, you need to get some good hands as well.
Oh of course. I was just pointing out that its actually more important for a coach to have great player utilization and adjustments compared to being an X and O guru.
I heard this one guy on the radio, I can't remember who it is, but he said something thats so true.
"Ive never seen a play designed to NOT work". And its true. Theyre all designed to work. As big of an X and O guy that I am, I'll cede that point.
Its all about adjusting to your personnell and designing schemes that fit their strengths, ie player utilization. The scheme itself can be somewhat overrated at times.
Of course, you need the "groceries" to cook dinner. Thats why I also give GM/HC guys more credit, because not only do they coach, but they get the groceries too. Guys like BP, Holmgren, Reid, Shannahan...those guys are the elite, they are great coaches who also build the team.
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