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gpngc
06-22-2010, 11:12 PM
According to one of only two scouting services used by NFL teams, it's Nebraska CB Prince Amukamara.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/13510360/huskers-amukamara-faces-challenge-living-up-to-draft-grade

According to the article, Clayborn and Herzlich rank 2nd and 3rd respectively for National Football Scouting.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-23-2010, 01:06 AM
I think that rating a cornerback, a rush linebacker, and a less than hugely athletic 43 defensive end as possibilities for the #1 prospect is a bit unrealistic.

I like all three, Amukamara and Clayborn especially (I'm still unsure on Herzlich with the time he's missed and what he's coming back from), but I wouldn't predict any of the three being top 5 picks at this point. Maybe Clayborn.

SickwithIt1010
06-23-2010, 01:33 AM
Is Amukamara on Patrick Peterson's level?

RaiderNation
06-23-2010, 01:39 AM
I love Clayborn, but Locker should be #1 on everybodies board.

TACKLE
06-23-2010, 01:44 AM
Is Amukamara on Patrick Peterson's level?

No but he's not as far off as some think. Peterson is a once every 5-10 years type talent but Prince is an exceptional CB in his own right. Not quite as athletically gifted as PP but he is such a complete corner who has a great all around game. He is a better prospect than Joe Haden and it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up as a top 10 prospect. Junior Aaron Williams from Texas has gotten a lot of hype as the number two CB. Williams has great size and athleticism but hasn't been as consistent as Prince and isn't nearly as polished.

LonghornsLegend
06-23-2010, 03:10 AM
Junior Aaron Williams from Texas has gotten a lot of hype as the number two CB. Williams has great size and athleticism but hasn't been as consistent as Prince and isn't nearly as polished.

I'm pretty sure that was why majority of people were so high on Williams and have been moving him up boards, due to the fact that he is very polished and very consistent.


Prince has always impressed me when I saw him play each and every time, I'll have to make note to at least see him play a few more this year to give my final grade on him but the top of the CB class looks pretty good.


Right now Aaron Williams is graded similiar to what Aaron Ross was coming out for me, I don't think(as of yet, he could change my mind this year) he's on another level at this time. Ross has far better ball skills and a knack for coming up with the football one way or another, but Williams is a better pure cover corner and doesn't really make many mistakes.


Ross was still a mid to late 1st rounder for me, and I need to see more from Williams to show me he's worth flirting with the top 10 prospects in this draft.

Texas Homer
06-23-2010, 04:14 AM
I'm pretty sure that was why majority of people were so high on Williams and have been moving him up boards, due to the fact that he is very polished and very consistent.


Prince has always impressed me when I saw him play each and every time, I'll have to make note to at least see him play a few more this year to give my final grade on him but the top of the CB class looks pretty good.


Right now Aaron Williams is graded similiar to what Aaron Ross was coming out for me, I don't think(as of yet, he could change my mind this year) he's on another level at this time. Ross has far better ball skills and a knack for coming up with the football one way or another, but Williams is a better pure cover corner and doesn't really make many mistakes.


Ross was still a mid to late 1st rounder for me, and I need to see more from Williams to show me he's worth flirting with the top 10 prospects in this draft.

I'd like to see more of Williams too, but I think he is a top 15 pick. I think Williams will grade out higher than Ross come draft time, but nothing is guaranteed...so you never know.

I agree with you that Williams is very polished and very consistent. Williams is also pretty physical and a good tackler. Put it all together and I think Williams is the "Real Deal" at CB.

Texas Homer
06-23-2010, 04:16 AM
Prince is Legit though.

I'm not sure about #1 prospect, but I'm not a scout though either.

Prowler
06-23-2010, 06:35 AM
prince has always impressed me. we'll see how well he performs without suh on that line. i love herzlich, but #3 prospect is absurd. his comeback will be legendary, but he has only middle first round impact. i would also put bruce carter over him.

i'd personally go locker, quinn, peterson, heyward, and aj green.

K Train
06-23-2010, 07:28 AM
peterson is my #1 until further notice and i generally undervalue CBs so thats how good i think he is

619
06-23-2010, 07:47 AM
Last year's top-rated prospect (other than Herzlich) was Mississippi defensive end Greg Hardy. Durability questions pushed Hardy into the sixth round in April, where the Carolina Panthers made him the 175th overall selection.

Two years ago, it was another talented pass rusher who earned the preseason top grade. Former Georgia Tech star Michael Johnson enjoyed a strong senior campaign, but he also slipped on draft day due to questions about his ability to make an impact as an every-down player. The Cincinnati Bengals ultimately selected him in the third round with the 70th pick overall.

Also important to take into consideration, even if I don't see Amukamara suffering the same fate.

K Train
06-23-2010, 07:49 AM
there always seems to be a defensive end that plummets like hardy, or quentin moses

JFLO
06-23-2010, 08:01 AM
I think people have to realize that the article isn't saying he's the #1 prospect in the draft, but he had the highest grade of all the remaining Seniors who didn't declare for last year's draft. Which is saying something, but I think Amukamara is a special talent in his own right. I'm not sure if I would put him in front of Joe Haden just yet because Haden was a better athlete than Amuakamara and was much more fluid, but Prince has the ability to end up being a Top 10-15 overall prospect when it's all said and done.

Weird the article says that Locker received a 2nd round grade from the committee.

Personally, cornerback is one of the my favorite positions on the entire field and I think it would be great to have 3 cornerbacks in the Top 15-20 players and that has a real shot of happening in 2011.

K Train
06-23-2010, 08:05 AM
i think locker is a great prospect just like everyone else, but for being such a raw talent he doesnt get nearly the criticism he deserves, especially for a QB with 1st overall potential, its kind of refreshing to see lol

JFLO
06-23-2010, 08:09 AM
I have to agree...the more I watch Jake Locker, the more I start to find holes in his game. These are holes that can easily be fixed with more guidance from Steve Sarkisan and Co. then he can vault to my Top 3-5 prospects.

I think one aspect of Locker's game that is overrated is his arm strength. He can make all the throws, but there are a lot of people out there saying that his arm strength is in the great-elite range, when it most certainly is not. I would say it's in the above average - good range.

His deep ball needs work but a lot of prospects' do while his inconsistent decision making also needs some development.

Preston
06-23-2010, 10:57 AM
I have to agree...the more I watch Jake Locker, the more I start to find holes in his game. These are holes that can easily be fixed with more guidance from Steve Sarkisan and Co. then he can vault to my Top 3-5 prospects.

I think one aspect of Locker's game that is overrated is his arm strength. He can make all the throws, but there are a lot of people out there saying that his arm strength is in the great-elite range, when it most certainly is not. I would say it's in the above average - good range.

His deep ball needs work but a lot of prospects' do while his inconsistent decision making also needs some development.

I think a lot of people (or maybe just myself...) are giving Locker a bit of a pass on some mechanics issues and such, because he was a spread, scrambling quarterback trying to be fit into a pro-style passing attack. The fact that Locker transitioned as well as he did was amazing, and his development in his second season in a pro-style could be startling.

On Amukamara, he's my 2nd rated corner (behind Peterson of course) but I've always really liked him. His size is prototypical for a cornerback, and he's tall enough to handle some of the larger receivers in the NFL. He's fast but doesn't rely on it, and he knows how to read the quarterback's eyes. Even more, he's a stud as a run defender.

SickwithIt1010
06-23-2010, 02:03 PM
I have to agree...the more I watch Jake Locker, the more I start to find holes in his game. These are holes that can easily be fixed with more guidance from Steve Sarkisan and Co. then he can vault to my Top 3-5 prospects.

I think one aspect of Locker's game that is overrated is his arm strength. He can make all the throws, but there are a lot of people out there saying that his arm strength is in the great-elite range, when it most certainly is not. I would say it's in the above average - good range.

His deep ball needs work but a lot of prospects' do while his inconsistent decision making also needs some development.

Im a USC fan, but with Sark going off to U Dub and playing against Locker through high school I will give him some love right here, even though it kills me to see it again

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3:44- 30 yard bullet on the run with a guy ready to crush him? Dont see many people make that throw.

RealityCheck
06-23-2010, 02:47 PM
It's only the seniors.
Better, it's only nothing.

bce
06-23-2010, 05:24 PM
I think people have to realize that the article isn't saying he's the #1 prospect in the draft, but he had the highest grade of all the remaining Seniors who didn't declare for last year's draft. Which is saying something, but I think Amukamara is a special talent in his own right. I'm not sure if I would put him in front of Joe Haden just yet because Haden was a better athlete than Amuakamara and was much more fluid, but Prince has the ability to end up being a Top 10-15 overall prospect when it's all said and done.

Weird the article says that Locker received a 2nd round grade from the committee.

Personally, cornerback is one of the my favorite positions on the entire field and I think it would be great to have 3 cornerbacks in the Top 15-20 players and that has a real shot of happening in 2011.


Why would that be great? Anakamura must be a pretty bad athlete if hes less than of an athlete than joe haden. 4.55 40 etc. I certainly wouldnt draft a corner with a high pick thats a lesser athlete than joe haden. Thats just me though im not a big fan of slow corners.

K Train
06-23-2010, 05:44 PM
hes a better corner than haden, haden was a beneficiary of a weak corner class.

and "athlete" certainly isnt defined by a 40 yard dash

bce
06-23-2010, 05:51 PM
Its one of the measures they use so i agree its not the whole package, but it certainly is a measure of athleticism, otherwise, they probably wouldnt test it.

RealityCheck
06-23-2010, 06:04 PM
Plus, a guy who just came off bone cancer recovery as the #3 prospect?

Preston
06-23-2010, 06:18 PM
Plus, a guy who just came off bone cancer recovery as the #3 prospect?

To be fair, it's the same grade that they gave to him before his cancer. While I agree that we should hold off on Herzlich until we see him play, they're probably assuming that he'll make a recovery and play with the same tenacity and skill he did in 2008.

descendency
06-23-2010, 07:33 PM
To be fair, it's the same grade that they gave to him before his cancer. While I agree that we should hold off on Herzlich until we see him play, they're probably assuming that he'll make a recovery and play with the same tenacity and skill he did in 2008.

You're not being fair to him or other scouts if you think he is in the same shape that he was in (or even close) after bone cancer. If you're a scout and making an assumption, you're an idiot.

TuckNole
06-23-2010, 09:17 PM
This is how the scouting is done as was explained on another site:

"There are two competing agencies, National and BLESTO, that NFL teams can work with. Both of those agencies work as confederations of different teams pooling together resources in order to do all of the initial ground work for scouting. While some scouts work strictly for BLESTO/National, a good chunk are team scouts that the agencies “borrow” during this time of year.

As college football ramps up, scouts return to their respective teams in other to fulfill their duties as regional scouts. However, they’ll also update players for their respective agencies as well.

On grading, anything above a 6.5 indicates that they should be a Top 15 prospect. Though it technically goes up to 9.0, anything between a 8.0 and 9.0 is extremely rare (Think Bo Jackson)."

ThePudge
06-24-2010, 12:28 PM
Obviously I'd have to disagree with the scouts on this one even in the early-going. I would assume that includes only Seniors, however, which makes the statements more bearable. Still, since the topic is #1 prospect in 2011 I'd have to stick with Ryan Mallett from Arkansas. Jake Locker has the potential to be another Top 5 prospect and I love AJ Green, Robert Quinn, and Patrick Peterson.

JFLO
06-24-2010, 12:38 PM
I would have to say my #1 overall prospect at this point is Patrick Peterson...it was Robert Quinn for awhile, but I just think Peterson is more polished at his position than Quinn. It's weird to have a CB as the #1 guy, but I think Peterson is a once in a decade talent at his position.

bce
06-24-2010, 04:18 PM
I would have to say my #1 overall prospect at this point is Patrick Peterson...it was Robert Quinn for awhile, but I just think Peterson is more polished at his position than Quinn. It's weird to have a CB as the #1 guy, but I think Peterson is a once in a decade talent at his position.


And when was the last time the #1 player in any draft was a corner?


I just dont get it. I dont get the love affairs that the world has with players with low position value and a larg population sample i.e. (theres more 6 190 guys in the world than there are 6 6 325 guys or guys who can play qb in the nfl).

iM NOT A FAN OF ROBERT QUINN, BUT IF I WAS PICKING FIRST THERES NO WAY ON EARTH I'D EVER DRAFT A CORNER AHEAD OF QUINN, AND THERES NO WAY IN THE WORLD A CORNER IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE DRAFT. EVER.

bce
06-24-2010, 04:25 PM
Furthermore having great corners is not a necessity to winning nfl championships.OF Each of the last 5 nfl champions, none of them had greatness at the corner position. So why on gods green earth would you draft one in the top 10.

RealityCheck
06-24-2010, 04:49 PM
And when was the last time the #1 player in any draft was a corner?
Terrance Newman I believe was a very highly touted prospect.

JFLO
06-24-2010, 05:01 PM
And when was the last time the #1 player in any draft was a corner?


I just dont get it. I dont get the love affairs that the world has with players with low position value and a larg population sample i.e. (theres more 6 190 guys in the world than there are 6 6 325 guys or guys who can play qb in the nfl).

iM NOT A FAN OF ROBERT QUINN, BUT IF I WAS PICKING FIRST THERES NO WAY ON EARTH I'D EVER DRAFT A CORNER AHEAD OF QUINN, AND THERES NO WAY IN THE WORLD A CORNER IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE DRAFT. EVER.

Actually yes, I feel pretty comfortable saying I would take Peterson ahead of Quinn at the moment. If I had the #1 overall pick, maybe not because I'm not sure if I would pay that amount of money to a corner, but if I had pick #4 or 5, then I would take Peterson in a heartbeat.

I'm ranking the best overall player, regardless of position. Granted, I'm not going to put a guard/center/punter/kicker/fullback or long snapper #1 overall, but when it comes to other positions, I rank them all with the same judgment.

JFLO
06-24-2010, 05:02 PM
Terrance Newman I believe was a very highly touted prospect.

As was Charles Woodson and Champ Bailey...

I also considered Eric Berry a Defensive Back rather than Safety, so maybe you can count him too.

prock
06-24-2010, 05:03 PM
I think the number 1 prospect is either going to be Locker or Mallet. Probably will end up being Mallet by draft time.

Vox Populi
06-24-2010, 05:24 PM
They only ranked last year's draft eligible juniors and rs sophomores I'm pretty sure...

bce
06-24-2010, 05:25 PM
Terrance Newman I believe was a very highly touted prospect.


The same draft that produced carson palmer, troy polumalu, andre johnson terrel suggs, osi umenyora, i could go on, but this shows why a corner is never the #1 overall pick

bce
06-24-2010, 05:27 PM
Actually yes, I feel pretty comfortable saying I would take Peterson ahead of Quinn at the moment. If I had the #1 overall pick, maybe not because I'm not sure if I would pay that amount of money to a corner, but if I had pick #4 or 5, then I would take Peterson in a heartbeat.

I'm ranking the best overall player, regardless of position. Granted, I'm not going to put a guard/center/punter/kicker/fullback or long snapper #1 overall, but when it comes to other positions, I rank them all with the same judgment.

Ok well, if hes not worthy of being the # 1 pick financially or otherwise why is he the #1 overall prospect? If the best player is never a corner, then how is patrick peterson the best overall player in the draft. If hes not financially worth that high of a pick, then why is he the #1 player?

JFLO
06-24-2010, 05:29 PM
Are you seriously telling me that a financial perspective goes into dictating who your #1 talent is?

K Train
06-24-2010, 05:31 PM
As was Charles Woodson and Champ Bailey...

I also considered Eric Berry a Defensive Back rather than Safety, so maybe you can count him too.

i had berry #1 and suh #2...i knew that wasnt gonna be the order they were drafted but they were the 2 best players imo

peterson is my #1 and will be until further notice...hes just the best player right now regardless of position and i rarely have a corner ranked high, let alone THAT high

bce
06-24-2010, 05:34 PM
As was Charles Woodson and Champ Bailey...

I also considered Eric Berry a Defensive Back rather than Safety, so maybe you can count him too.


Yes but champ bailey was in the same draft as edgerrin james, donovan mcnabb, daunte culpepper, along with others.

Charles woodson was in the same draft as peyton manning, randy moss and others.

Youre also talking about the best of the best here in the last 15 years. Im sorry i dont see patrick peterson as being the best of the best type. He lacks champ baileys speed and ball skills, and charles woodsons ball skills and just plain greatness as a football player.

And how many world champions have champ bailey, charles woodson played on the answer............. 0

prock
06-24-2010, 05:35 PM
Hey bce, we are in the business of determining who the best players are, not where they will go. You are too brain washed by Mel Kiper to understand that. You are in the business of predicting draft order. Once you realize this, it will make more sense.

Oh how easy it is to mock you..

bce
06-24-2010, 05:35 PM
Are you seriously telling me that a financial perspective goes into dictating who your #1 talent is?



Yeah they have to be worth the money theyre going to get paid.

prock
06-24-2010, 05:36 PM
So, here is your reasoning here: if you have a good cornerback, you can't win a title.

bce
06-24-2010, 05:38 PM
Hey bce, we are in the business of determining who the best players are, not where they will go. You are too brain washed by Mel Kiper to understand that. You are in the business of predicting draft order. Once you realize this, it will make more sense.

Oh how easy it is to mock you..

still nothing relevant. I'll give respect to differeing or wrong opinions, then theres you, who i have no respect for becuase all you do is chase me around because i hurt your pride a few times. Youre not bothering me irritating me or anything so why bother. Post something relevant or respond to someone else please. Your game is old.

bce
06-24-2010, 05:39 PM
So, here is your reasoning here: if you have a good cornerback, you can't win a title.


Its not my reasoning at all. My reasoning is that you dont need greatness there to win championships, so why would you draft expected greatness when youre picking in the top 10 if you dont need it? The proof, the last 5 world champions.

JFLO
06-24-2010, 05:40 PM
Yeah they have to be worth the money theyre going to get paid.

The last time I checked, a financial perspective isn't supposed to be included into your big board. It's who is the best talent available.

Financial aspects of the draft only happen....in the actual draft.

prock
06-24-2010, 05:41 PM
You got me good! I just don't argue with you since you don't listen to arguments. You just keep telling me the NFL is a conspiracy, Mel Kiper brainwashed me, and defensive tackle is a worthless position.

bce
06-24-2010, 05:49 PM
The last time I checked, a financial perspective isn't supposed to be included into your big board. It's who is the best talent available.

Financial aspects of the draft only happen....in the actual draft.

Youre simply ignoring that football is a business, and that certain players have certain values. Youre also ignoring history, which states that the #1 player in the draft has never been a corner. Youre also ignoring that theres no future hall of famers on the last 5 world champions at the corner spot.

JFLO
06-24-2010, 07:52 PM
Youre simply ignoring that football is a business, and that certain players have certain values. Youre also ignoring history, which states that the #1 player in the draft has never been a corner. Youre also ignoring that theres no future hall of famers on the last 5 world champions at the corner spot.

I realize that football is a business, but that has nothing AT ALL to do with making a big board ******. Do you honestly think that anyone here besides you and maybe two other worthless people will make a big board with a respective player's contract situation in mind? Absolutely not.

And the way you are talking, you are saying something like there is a consensus big board?!?! When was the last time you saw a consensus big board with every single draftnik on the planet? Never, jackass. I'm willing to bet that there were a couple teams in 1999 that had Champ Bailey as the #1 guy and I would be willing to bet that a couple teams in 2011 will have Pat PEterson as their #1 guy.

You are officially shunned, I will no longer acknowledge your existence because you are the most worthless person posting here.

Goodnight.

bored of education
06-24-2010, 07:54 PM
Cam Heyward

bce
06-24-2010, 08:53 PM
I realize that football is a business, but that has nothing AT ALL to do with making a big board ******. Do you honestly think that anyone here besides you and maybe two other worthless people will make a big board with a respective player's contract situation in mind? Absolutely not.

And the way you are talking, you are saying something like there is a consensus big board?!?! When was the last time you saw a consensus big board with every single draftnik on the planet? Never, jackass. I'm willing to bet that there were a couple teams in 1999 that had Champ Bailey as the #1 guy and I would be willing to bet that a couple teams in 2011 will have Pat PEterson as their #1 guy.

You are officially shunned, I will no longer acknowledge your existence because you are the most worthless person posting here.

Goodnight.

But champ bailey wasnt the #1 player in the draft. So they were wrong.

Pretty much every big board i ever see pretty much looks the same just a few spots switched around.


And as for myself and the three other people or whatever that realize that a player being worth what hes going to be paid is important, well i mean thats taking value into consideration. Will that player be worth what hes being paid is very important as i see it and if you asked anyone in the nfl im sure they want to pay players according to their value. The question just becomes in the draft whether thats on field value with regards to winning or if its some other type of financial value. And trust me, players are drafted for value not related to winning football games.

If it wasnt a business, chris johnson would have a 40 mil guaranteed contract vincent jackson wouldnt be sitting out 10 games. Its no different with the draft. Every pick is a business decision. It just depends on what your business goals are. And they are not all in the business of trying to win super bowls, although that may seem unconscienable, its the truth.

Otherwise chiris johnson would have a 40 mil guaranteed contract and vincent jackson wouldnt be sitting out and sam bradford wouldnt have been the first pick and ndumkong suh wouldnt have been the second pick etc etc etc.

If your goal is winning super bowls, you dont draft patrick peterson anywhere near the #1 pick. If you have some other business goal, and most teams do, then that justifies the pick for them, but dont expect when that happens that the lombardi is in mind.

prock
06-24-2010, 10:52 PM
It's a big board, not a mock draft. Jesus Christ.

LonghornsLegend
06-24-2010, 11:27 PM
The last time I checked, a financial perspective isn't supposed to be included into your big board. It's who is the best talent available.

Financial aspects of the draft only happen....in the actual draft.

I wouldn't waste my time, it's pretty obvious somebody doesn't know the definition of a big board.


You can have whatever the hell position you want as #1 on your big board, doesn't mean you intend to take him there, it's the best players in the draft. But hey, some people think its cute to be ignorant for attention.


Let's be honest, it was about time we were due for another one of these guys around here.

TuckNole
06-24-2010, 11:49 PM
It's hard to name a #1 Senior only list though when we all know (essentially) Mallett is coming out, and I don't see how he isn't the overall #1. If we are talking seniors only, I'd probably go with Peterson, but rankings and evals are pretty fluid at this stage, to the degree of being almost pointless.

Hines
06-24-2010, 11:50 PM
But champ bailey wasnt the #1 player in the draft. So they were wrong.

Pretty much every big board i ever see pretty much looks the same just a few spots switched around.


And as for myself and the three other people or whatever that realize that a player being worth what hes going to be paid is important, well i mean thats taking value into consideration. Will that player be worth what hes being paid is very important as i see it and if you asked anyone in the nfl im sure they want to pay players according to their value. The question just becomes in the draft whether thats on field value with regards to winning or if its some other type of financial value. And trust me, players are drafted for value not related to winning football games.

If it wasnt a business, chris johnson would have a 40 mil guaranteed contract vincent jackson wouldnt be sitting out 10 games. Its no different with the draft. Every pick is a business decision. It just depends on what your business goals are. And they are not all in the business of trying to win super bowls, although that may seem unconscienable, its the truth.

Otherwise chiris johnson would have a 40 mil guaranteed contract and vincent jackson wouldnt be sitting out and sam bradford wouldnt have been the first pick and ndumkong suh wouldnt have been the second pick etc etc etc.

If your goal is winning super bowls, you dont draft patrick peterson anywhere near the #1 pick. If you have some other business goal, and most teams do, then that justifies the pick for them, but dont expect when that happens that the lombardi is in mind.

Chris Johnson will get his money. Vincent Jackson will get his money. Sam Bradford was the number 1 pick because he was the best QB in the draft and the Rams needed one. Suh went to the Lions because they needed a dominate force in the middle.

I'm willing to put money that Patrick Peterson will be a top 5 pick. Why shouldn't he? If a team needs a CB and he's on the board in the top five, he'll get picked. Simple as that.



Back to the subject, I think it'll be Mallett or Locker. If a team like St Louis or TB gets the first pick, it'll be Robert Quinn.

descendency
06-24-2010, 11:52 PM
Patrick Peterson is a junior.

princefielder28
06-25-2010, 09:04 AM
Back to the subject, I think it'll be Mallett or Locker. If a team like St Louis or TB gets the first pick, it'll be Robert Quinn.

A one-dimensional end like Quinn should not get drafted first overall, nor do I think he will if that scenario plays out. Outisde of the quarterbacks I think Anthony Castonzo, AJ Green, and Marcell Dareus will challenge for the first pick.

Hines
06-25-2010, 11:37 AM
A one-dimensional end like Quinn should not get drafted first overall, nor do I think he will if that scenario plays out. Outisde of the quarterbacks I think Anthony Castonzo, AJ Green, and Marcell Dareus will challenge for the first pick.

Teams are always looking at pass rushers. I think Quinn is the best DE in this class. I am high on Cameron Heyward, though. I like Castonzo, but I don't think he'll compete for the number 1 spot. I totally forgot about AJ Green in that moment, and yes he can contend for the number one spot. I'm not sold on Dareus though. I guess I haven't seen too much of him to gauge an informative opinion on him, but I don't think a guy is going to be a rising star after one game. I guess I'll watch more of him this season.

RealityCheck
06-25-2010, 02:35 PM
By saying Quinn is one-dimensional, you mean that he's got his own dimension where he owns all quarterbacks in the world, right?

tjsunstein
06-25-2010, 02:59 PM
Quinn is very far from one dimensional.

Btw, this thread would have benefitted from a poll.

wonderbredd24
06-25-2010, 03:09 PM
Quinn is very far from one dimensional.
Eh... I haven't seen him do a whole lot as a run defender. I'm anxious to watch him play this season to see if he's better in that department, but if you watch any of the highlight packages people are throwing up around here featuring Quinn, any of the plays he makes against the run, no one blocks him. It's actually pretty funny.

princefielder28
06-25-2010, 10:24 PM
By saying Quinn is one-dimensional, you mean that he's got his own dimension where he owns all quarterbacks in the world, right?

No, one, uno, eins-dimensional

bce
06-25-2010, 10:28 PM
No way is quinn the best player in this draft. He only has to have one dimension, getting to the qb, but in the games i saw i didnt see elite ability in that aspect of the game. he didnt make the freak list either, when hes supposed to be the "freak"

prock
06-25-2010, 11:37 PM
You watched 3 games. Stop basing all of your opinions off of a pre season freak list.

TitanHope
06-25-2010, 11:49 PM
he didnt make the freak list either, when hes supposed to be the "freak"

The ESPN list?

BCE, you've gotta stop going to places like ESPN for all your info and basing your opinions off what some writer says.

VUBlacknGold
06-26-2010, 03:07 AM
and people thought i was bad for bringing up my vanderbilt players, least i watched my games lol. I think its Patrick Peterson, theres gifts, then theres what he has, its just not fair.

jth1331
06-26-2010, 05:32 AM
Im a USC fan, but with Sark going off to U Dub and playing against Locker through high school I will give him some love right here, even though it kills me to see it again

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fhTjtK2EcWc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fhTjtK2EcWc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

3:44- 30 yard bullet on the run with a guy ready to crush him? Dont see many people make that throw.

I just wanted to say, in that video, I chuckled when I saw USC's LB #52 at the end there celebrate after tackling Washington's RB inside the 5 yard line with what was it, 10 seconds to go. Wohoo buddy, good job.

ThePudge
06-26-2010, 10:27 AM
To comment on the big board talk above, I have developed slightly different ways to break it down/organize/rank through the years. My board was LOOSELY based on what players would benefit their franchise most. Ndamukong Suh was 3rd on my Final Board because I assumed his value to be lower than a franchise Quarterback (Bradford) and a top penetrator that could change the pace of the entire offense (McCoy). Talent, versatility, injury history, and character are a few other factors that would influence my board. One thing that never crosses my mind or influences where I rank the players is money or the team I think will draft him. Once you start thinking teams & money it can really mess up your board and pull it into "mock draft" territory.

Now, Sam Bradford sat atop my board in 2010 due to the perceived value he could have on a QB-needy franchise. I am fully confident in Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy, but my opinion remains: neither of those players have the ability to control much of the game thus less of a chance to translate to wins (alone.) If I'm a struggling franchise with chronic Quarterback concerns I know that's the direction I have to look if a top talent presents itself.

To Patrick Peterson, great player.. just not #1 on my board, nor would I expect him to go first overall. The reason behind not taking a Cornerback 1st Overall isn't rooted in money, it's rooted in the fact that if a team is bad enough to finish with the worst record in the NFL then Cornerback probably isn't the game-changing force they need (see: QB, LT, DE, DT). With a big year Patrick Peterson would likely find himself at the top at several boards but I doubt he's an option at 1st Overall because teams prefer guys like Ryan Mallett, Jake Locker, and Robert Quinn. The logic for not taking a Corner at 1st Overall really doesn't have a lot to do with money, but perceived value to their franchise.

A brushing up on my Top 5 Big Board...

1. Ryan Mallett - QB - Arkansas
2. Jake Locker - QB - Washington
3. Robert Quinn - DE - North Carolina
4. A.J. Green - WR - Georgia
5. Patrick Peterson - CB - LSU

- I believe the top talent in next year's class will be much deeper and the five guys listed above look like elite talents at their positions. For a more comprehensive board just PM me, I just wanted to weigh in on some of the top talent for now.

For the record, Robert Quinn is indeed a freak. His 40 yard dash has been rumored to be between 4.5 and 4.6 at 6'5 260, but what he does on the field has been most impressive. Even if the one time you watched him he wasn't a force you have to look at his statistics as a Sophomore in the ACC and realize he showed up quite a bit when you weren't watching. The first DE since Mario Williams that I think could warrant a Top 3-5 selection based on talent, physical ability, and college production.

princefielder28
06-26-2010, 10:42 AM
Stats can be misleading though...if you take a look at the opponents that Quinn dominated, they're not teams that are full of NFL talent along their lines(Duke 4.5 TFL, Virginia 4.0 TFL, Georgia Tech 2.5, East Carolina 2.0)...that totals 13 of his 19 tackles for a loss, and when you factor in the number of other NFL talents along that defensive front and the lack of consistent double teams or chips on him, the fact that he ate up a bunch of scrubs with his speed is far from surprising. Am I trying to minimize how good 11 sacks and 19 TFL are? Yeah, I am because when he actually lined up against legit talent (Costanzo of BC, games against Miami(FL), Virginia Tech, and Pittsburgh) his presence wasn't nearly felt as much and his effectiveness was pulled back. He's a straight speed guy, physicality is not a part of his game, and if I'm not mistaken we saw a prospect with similar credentials not too long ago, Gaines Adams, and we all know how his career turned out before the tragedy.

ThePudge
06-26-2010, 11:54 AM
Stats can be misleading though...if you take a look at the opponents that Quinn dominated, they're not teams that are full of NFL talent along their lines(Duke 4.5 TFL, Virginia 4.0 TFL, Georgia Tech 2.5, East Carolina 2.0)...that totals 13 of his 19 tackles for a loss, and when you factor in the number of other NFL talents along that defensive front and the lack of consistent double teams or chips on him, the fact that he ate up a bunch of scrubs with his speed is far from surprising. Am I trying to minimize how good 11 sacks and 19 TFL are? Yeah, I am because when he actually lined up against legit talent (Costanzo of BC, games against Miami(FL), Virginia Tech, and Pittsburgh) his presence wasn't nearly felt as much and his effectiveness was pulled back. He's a straight speed guy, physicality is not a part of his game, and if I'm not mistaken we saw a prospect with similar credentials not too long ago, Gaines Adams, and we all know how his career turned out before the tragedy.

I agree stats can be very misleading and I wasn't using any particular numbers to aid my statement. Basically, you could have a caught a couple games a year ago in which Brandon Graham was for the most part neutralized however statistics will show you (if others don't inform you) that wasn't the case all the time. Basically, just because he had a down game when you watched him [once] doesn't mean that's entirely indicative of the force he'd been all year. Quinn, in particular, has some things he'll certainly need to improve (variety in pass rush moves, strength, etc.) but his size, speed, and ability to get after the Quarterback is extremely impressive for a guy only two years out of high school. Another thing Quinn boasts is the ability to comfortably carry up to 270-275 on his frame without losing all too much of his quickness. He'll need to make strides... but so will Mallett, Peterson, Green, etc. if they want to solidify a Top 5-10 grade.

FUNBUNCHER
06-26-2010, 12:41 PM
At this point Quinn is a little overrated based potential, and not his ability, yet, to outright dominate a football game.

If he was truly an elite pass rusher, IMO Quinn would be allowed to be one-dimensional.

For me to view his as a top 5 pick, and not just the best edge rusher available in the draft, Quinn is gonna have to do something really special in 2010.

BTW, I don't like to see top prospects get fat playing against weak teams and disappear against BCS or top 25 opponents.

princefielder28
06-26-2010, 01:03 PM
I obviosuly get to watch Big Ten football more than any other conference, but I did get to see four UNC games this past season and I think even trying to compare Brandon Graham and Robert Quinn, in this part of his development, is laughable. You look at Brandon Graham, who was really the only talent in the front seven for Michigan, against the best the Big Ten had to offer, Iowa and Wisconsin, he was absolutely a monster and he was able to show a more complete game. Now I know Graham had four years compared to Quinn's two, but I don't see Quinn as someone who will develop a physical aspect to his game, and when it comes to technique he has quite a ways to go because while he can get to the backfield at a million miles an hour, he has poor technique at times and more talented players will make him pay for that. It's funny that somebody like Jeremy Beal, who is on par with Quinn statistically, has a more well rounded game is looked at as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but he lacks that outstanding forty time so people aren't jumping all over him. I don't want to hear about Quinn having an amazing first step because that is not the case. Honestly I think both players are towards the bottom of round one as prospects, and what will separate them from each other and other prospects is their ability to play with their hands because at this point both players need a ton of work in that department.

ThePudge
06-26-2010, 02:12 PM
I'm not making any player on player comparisons here, I was simply responding to bce who said when he watched Robert Quinn he didn't see anything. There are games in which some star players really didn't show up and make their impact felt but that's no grounds for complete judgement on a player. I'm not going to go in too deep into draft stock before his junior season even starts, but he's among a few players with tremendous upside.

JFLO
06-26-2010, 04:16 PM
PF I have to completely disagree with you on Quinn's first step...if you don't think his acceleration and explosiveness aren't great then you need to watch him a bit more especially in his game against Florida state last year

princefielder28
06-26-2010, 10:42 PM
PF I have to completely disagree with you on Quinn's first step...if you don't think his acceleration and explosiveness aren't great then you need to watch him a bit more especially in his game against Florida state last year

He does have great accleration and has shown explosiveness but when it comes to gettting off the ball, he lacks consistency in that department...in his junior year he needs to show more consistency and show that he can handle the true talent in college football...i know physicality will never be a part of his game but if he can show a consistently good first step then he has the potential to enter into the "elite" pass rusher category.

Now I know I'm in the minority with my views on him, but his game will require refining on his technique because while he'll be able to get by and play at a high level thanks to his freakish athleticism, when it comes to the NFL, he'll be facing the best athletes and big men we have to offer.

bce
06-27-2010, 06:00 PM
The ESPN list?

BCE, you've gotta stop going to places like ESPN for all your info and basing your opinions off what some writer says.

I already knew quinn wasnt the "freak". Its simply validation from a 3rd party source, so you dont just believe im stating opinion not based on fact.

bce
06-27-2010, 06:01 PM
I obviosuly get to watch Big Ten football more than any other conference, but I did get to see four UNC games this past season and I think even trying to compare Brandon Graham and Robert Quinn, in this part of his development, is laughable. You look at Brandon Graham, who was really the only talent in the front seven for Michigan, against the best the Big Ten had to offer, Iowa and Wisconsin, he was absolutely a monster and he was able to show a more complete game. Now I know Graham had four years compared to Quinn's two, but I don't see Quinn as someone who will develop a physical aspect to his game, and when it comes to technique he has quite a ways to go because while he can get to the backfield at a million miles an hour, he has poor technique at times and more talented players will make him pay for that. It's funny that somebody like Jeremy Beal, who is on par with Quinn statistically, has a more well rounded game is looked at as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but he lacks that outstanding forty time so people aren't jumping all over him. I don't want to hear about Quinn having an amazing first step because that is not the case. Honestly I think both players are towards the bottom of round one as prospects, and what will separate them from each other and other prospects is their ability to play with their hands because at this point both players need a ton of work in that department.


Graham was the # player in the draft. I dont like sam bradford, so graham was the #1 player.

prock
06-27-2010, 10:53 PM
I already knew quinn wasnt the "freak". Its simply validation from a 3rd party source, so you dont just believe im stating opinion not based on fact.

How convenient for you! When we have opinions and are validated by third party sources, we are brainwashed, but when you cite third party sources, you already knew it and are just validating. You are cute.

gpngc
06-27-2010, 11:18 PM
Is Amukamara on Patrick Peterson's level?

That's the point of the thread but no one seems to know...

Maybe he was a big reason for the Suh dominance? The Texas game? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

bce
06-28-2010, 10:50 PM
How convenient for you! When we have opinions and are validated by third party sources, we are brainwashed, but when you cite third party sources, you already knew it and are just validating. You are cute.


See i already knew that but you didnt. you think robert quinn is the 'freak"

bce
06-28-2010, 10:51 PM
That's the point of the thread but no one seems to know...

Maybe he was a big reason for the Suh dominance? The Texas game? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Question. Who didnt destroy the texas offensive line. Other than baylor and iowa st and those types.

prock
06-29-2010, 02:56 PM
See i already knew that but you didnt. you think robert quinn is the 'freak"

I didn't know that Robert Quinn was a beast? OK, I didn't know he was before Mel Kiper told me, how did you know? You assume I didn't know and then expect us to believe that you did. What the **** makes you special?

bce
06-29-2010, 06:42 PM
I already know he isnt thats why i dont kneel at the altar of robert quinn.

Im not "special" at all. I just follow it all more vigorously than most and i dont take information from other sources as far as evaluating players. I beleive what I see, I dont rehash what the talking heads say. The talking heads are wrong way too much for me to ever go down that road. I try to see all the angles, just not "this guy is the best player" becuase everyone said so. Theres way more to it than that

marshallb
06-29-2010, 07:33 PM
I already know he isnt thats why i dont kneel at the altar of robert quinn.

Im not "special" at all. I just follow it all more vigorously than most and i dont take information from other sources as far as evaluating players. I beleive what I see, I dont rehash what the talking heads say. The talking heads are wrong way too much for me to ever go down that road. I try to see all the angles, just not "this guy is the best player" becuase everyone said so. Theres way more to it than that

I've got two complaints:
1.) You don't take information from other sources? ********. You just did it with the "freak list", and went on and on using that as evidence as to why Quinn isn't great and how Baldwin is so much better than AJ Green.
2.) If you're so much better than all of the talking heads and the rest of us on here then why don't you start your own website, and show the whole world how great you are and how you follow it more vigorously.

bce
06-29-2010, 07:45 PM
I only named one player from the freak list to disparage the aj green apologists to prove that AJ green wasnt he was all hashed up to be, and i used a third party source to prove it, as I had baldwin much higher on my board from the beginning, before the freak list came out.

Maybe i dont want to run a website, maybe id just prefer to blog.

Not everyone wants to be mel kiper.

marshallb
06-29-2010, 07:47 PM
I only named one player from the freak list to disparage the aj green apologists to prove that AJ green wasnt he was all hashed up to be, and i used a third party source to prove it, as I had baldwin much higher on my board from the beginning, before the freak list came out.

Maybe i dont want to run a website, maybe id just prefer to blog.

Not everyone wants to be mel kiper.

No, you did not, you used that to say for several guys "he's not on the freak list".

If you want to run a blog, then go start a blog, this is a message board also known as a forum.

bce
06-29-2010, 07:55 PM
Well they were supposed 'freaks". A third party source not in any way associated with me has stated they are not.

marshallb
06-29-2010, 07:56 PM
Well they were supposed 'freaks". A third party source not in any way associated with me has stated they are not.

So you used information from a third party source to evaluate players, right? You just got done saying that you don't do this, and now you are contradicting yourself again.

bce
06-29-2010, 08:04 PM
No i used a third party source to disprove the beliefs of the status quo. Again, my board is posted before the 'freak list" came out.

I rarely contradict myself. You spend your time just trying to find where i do, but it doesnt much happen.

Just like you rarely post anything of substance. like prock you jkust run around dissecting every sylable looking for some proof that the theroem is not correct.

Hurricanes25
06-29-2010, 08:09 PM
No i used a third party source to disprove the beliefs of the status quo. Again, my board is posted before the 'freak list" came out.

I rarely contradict myself. You spend your time just trying to find where i do, but it doesnt much happen.

Just like you rarely post anything of substance. like prock you jkust run around dissecting every sylable looking for some proof that the theroem is not correct.

A) You must be missing something upstairs.
B)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WE45111QL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

marshallb
06-29-2010, 08:10 PM
No i used a third party source to disprove the beliefs of the status quo. Again, my board is posted before the 'freak list" came out.

I rarely contradict myself. You spend your time just trying to find where i do, but it doesnt much happen.

Just like you rarely post anything of substance. like prock you jkust run around dissecting every sylable looking for some proof that the theroem is not correct.

http://www.courtneyhoskins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DoubleFacePalm.jpg
You just said, and I quote "A third party source not in any way associated with me has stated they are not." Therefore you used information from another source, which straight up contradicts "i dont take information from other sources".

I can't take it anymore, congratulations, you are the first member of my ignore list.

bce
06-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Again dissecting every syllable to find some shred where i dont follow my thoerem.

Ignore me. Im not interested at all much in people who run around dissecting every syllable of every word trying to find contradictions that dont exist. people that post nothing original, provide me with no information, n o perspective on anything just one sectence statements of opinion , worrying about my reasoning for using an article. Obviously i dont base my board off that article. So what are you getting at other than just trying to discredit me becuase it makes you feel good or you want me to disappear because you hurt my feelings or something.

Its childish.

thenewfeature06
06-29-2010, 08:20 PM
I don't wanna look back in a year or 2 and say damn.. half my posts were directed at bce, which some of you posters will be doing unfortunately. So this is probably the 2nd and last time I will be acknowledging you.

bce
06-29-2010, 08:28 PM
Im perfectly amiable to any relevant statements or opinions.

Those who provide neither, will find themselves doing just what you said or ignoring me, either is fine.

Because youre out your universe son, theres only two options, run and hide, or face up like man and talk some draft.

I just want one man out there to face up differing opinions are fine, just bring. I want a match.

marshallb
06-29-2010, 08:28 PM
I don't wanna look back in a year or 2 and say damn.. half my posts were directed at bce, which some of you posters will be doing unfortunately. So this is probably the 2nd and last time I will be acknowledging you.

Yea, I've given up and will no longer be posting in reply to him as I will no longer be seeing his posts. He obviously has his mind made up that all of his opinions are right and that no matter what evidence is given against his thoughts he is right and they are wrong. Now if everyone else will just ignore him as well, maybe he will go away as there will be no one for him to argue with. We can only hope, and even if he doesn't go away it will seem as though he has as you won't see his posts.

bce
06-29-2010, 08:47 PM
Thats right of course you have, because once you cant go around making yourself feel good, theres nothing left is there.

Im throwing down the challenge, anyone who wants to talk serious draft with me, im all ears. Whoevers the best out there (or thinks they are), im ready to rumble. But dont waste my time telling me that im an idiot or whatever. Calling for the herd to rally round you posting childish remarks and insults neither phases or concerns me.

So whoever thinks theyre the best. Im going to post a draft thread dedicated to talking prospects. Whoever talks prospects or has the stones to talk prospects bring it on.

Whoever wants to chase me around making feeble attempts to make me look bad, dont bother.

If no one posts anything of relevance, then i'll know no one has the stones to go one on one with me.

LizardState
07-01-2010, 11:44 AM
Its childish.

Like trolling.
Like failing to follow even the most basic rules of Net or blog etiquette.
Like failing to follow the Terms of Use.
Like being a threadkiller.

Sound familiar?

Da Big Harv
07-04-2010, 06:26 PM
can someone please ban this BCE guy ?? Holy Crap

descendency
07-04-2010, 06:50 PM
Quinn is the better NFL prospect because he's 6'5" 260 lbs. Graham was a better player.

bce
07-06-2010, 07:20 PM
The better player and the better prospect are the same thing as I see it. Im no longer going to use the word "better" player. If grahams the better player, hes the better prospect.

Its now whos the more "valuable" player.

bce
07-06-2010, 07:21 PM
can someone please ban this BCE guy ?? Holy Crap

youve been on here for 5 minutes and thats all you have to bring to the table. At least get yourself a reputation first.

prock
07-06-2010, 08:56 PM
The better player and the better prospect are the same thing as I see it. Im no longer going to use the word "better" player. If grahams the better player, hes the better prospect.

Its now whos the more "valuable" player.

No. Better player and better prospect are two completely different things. The draft is so much about potential. Graham was more polished, but Quinn has the tools to become a better player, hence the better prospect.

RealityCheck
07-07-2010, 06:22 PM
I already knew quinn wasnt the "freak".
Yeah, because every day you see a 265lbs guy who runs a 4.5 40-yd dash and can still get double digit sacks in a season.

bce
07-07-2010, 07:43 PM
No. Better player and better prospect are two completely different things. The draft is so much about potential. Graham was more polished, but Quinn has the tools to become a better player, hence the better prospect.

You mean better college player and better prospect are two different things. Again why does quinn have the tools to be a better player. Because brandon graham is short? So are a lot of elite pass rushers. I used to fall into the same trap. Its like a player has to have such and such dimensions to be the most valuable player, but when you look at the nfl, theres no cookie cutter formula for pass rushers. Theres great ones who are short, tall and in between. Theres 280 lb guys and 250lb guys. theres guys who run in the 4.7s and theres guys who run in the 4.5's. There are no set physical tools for pass rushers.

Its just a natural ability some players have. And that ability shows up between the white lines, and robert quinn sure as hell wasnt better than brandon graham between the white lines..

You cant lock yourself into that has to be x height or x weight or x forty time at that position. Because that is not the way it is at the nfl level at that position.

prock
07-08-2010, 02:16 AM
Robert Quinn's measurables give him a higher ceiling than someone like Brandon Graham. The draft is very often based on potential. The high ceiling guy will normally get picked ahead of the safer pick, because the reward is potentially greater. I am not sure why these simple concepts always seem to elude you.

FUNBUNCHER
07-08-2010, 05:58 AM
It's all about philosophy, IMO. Some GMs always chose potential over production, while others tend to go with the guy who was super-productive in college but didn't necessarily have those elite measurables.

Generally speaking, top 15 picks are the top pro prospects, those guys with the highest upside physically to excel in the NFL. Guys who can play but lack ideal measurables are as a rule taken lower.

So, a 5'9 200# RB who runs a 4.55 but has a 2000 yard season in the SEC would be the 2nd RB off the board for some teams who would rather take the 6'2 220# 4.3 guy who rushed for 1600 yards in the Big East.

IMO the only thing Graham lacked was ideal height/reach, his strength and speed were right in line for a top DE prospect.

It's easier to see the dividing line between the best pro prospects versus the top college players in a sport like the NBA than it is in football, I think.

bce
07-08-2010, 09:47 PM
Robert Quinn's measurables give him a higher ceiling than someone like Brandon Graham. The draft is very often based on potential. The high ceiling guy will normally get picked ahead of the safer pick, because the reward is potentially greater. I am not sure why these simple concepts always seem to elude you.


Because there is no set height weight 40 time for elite pass rushers. This idea that a "6 5 258 lb 4.6 40 guy" is going to be a better pass rusher than players of different dimensions its just not the way it is. Gaines adams and jarvis moss sucked. elvis dumervill and james harrison are great. BUt gaines adams had more "upside". But he wasnt the guy putting up 20 sacks in college, that was elvis dumervill.

The safer pick is the guy who performs best on the field, shows the best nfl pass rush ability, not the guy who has a certain physical dimension or 40 time at that position. The concepts elude me because the idea that there is a superior physical dimension for a pass rusher is simply not true. Great ones come in all shapes and sizes.

And as youre well aware who gets picked where is immaterial to me.

OaklandRaider56
07-08-2010, 11:51 PM
Because there is no set height weight 40 time for elite pass rushers. This idea that a "6 5 258 lb 4.6 40 guy" is going to be a better pass rusher than players of different dimensions its just not the way it is. Gaines adams and jarvis moss sucked. elvis dumervill and james harrison are great. BUt gaines adams had more "upside". But he wasnt the guy putting up 20 sacks in college, that was elvis dumervill.

The safer pick is the guy who performs best on the field, shows the best nfl pass rush ability, not the guy who has a certain physical dimension or 40 time at that position. The concepts elude me because the idea that there is a superior physical dimension for a pass rusher is simply not true. Great ones come in all shapes and sizes.

And as youre well aware who gets picked where is immaterial to me.

So QBs have to be big, fast, and have rocket arms... But DEs can come in all shapes and sizes...?

u dnt make no cents.

Bucs_Rule
07-09-2010, 09:35 AM
Teams use top picks on guys with amazing measurables and little production or experience. Guys with amazing production, technics have to be atleast very good measurables.

prock
07-09-2010, 02:01 PM
Because there is no set height weight 40 time for elite pass rushers. This idea that a "6 5 258 lb 4.6 40 guy" is going to be a better pass rusher than players of different dimensions its just not the way it is. Gaines adams and jarvis moss sucked. elvis dumervill and james harrison are great. BUt gaines adams had more "upside". But he wasnt the guy putting up 20 sacks in college, that was elvis dumervill.

The safer pick is the guy who performs best on the field, shows the best nfl pass rush ability, not the guy who has a certain physical dimension or 40 time at that position. The concepts elude me because the idea that there is a superior physical dimension for a pass rusher is simply not true. Great ones come in all shapes and sizes.

And as youre well aware who gets picked where is immaterial to me.

This is gold. You are so incredibly hypocritical. Pass rushers come in all shapes and sizes, but quarterbacks have to have ideal size and arm strength. You never cease to amaze me with your stupidity. Don't even think of saying it's different, because it really isn't.

bce
07-09-2010, 06:33 PM
So QBs have to be big, fast, and have rocket arms... But DEs can come in all shapes and sizes...?

u dnt make no cents.


Its a totally different position. Outside a few exceptions, the best have a certain physical skill set. Great pass rushers come in all shapes and sizes.

bce
07-09-2010, 06:34 PM
It is gold because its right.