Jaguars to LA in 2-3 years?

[BeerBaron]

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/13556024/latest-failed-ticket-push-shows-jags-endangered-species-in-jacksonville?tag=headlines;other
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/24/freeman-other-owners-favor-jaguars-move/

Eesh....doesn't look good for them. The fact that even their minority owners are in favor of the move makes this seem inevitable.

[Splat]

I hope they don't move and if they do I hope they go to a place that hasn't all ready had a chance(s) to have a team.

[The Unseen]

this isn't news, just speculation about stuff we already know

freeman used to write for the florida times-union (jax's paper) and thus you can see his sympathy, but this column doesn't really mean anything.

[BeerBaron]

this isn't news, just speculation about stuff we already know

freeman used to write for the florida times-union (jax's paper) and thus you can see his sympathy, but this column doesn't really mean anything.

So you're one of the Jag fans they refer to in the 2nd article then? ;)

No matter what we say about the Jaguars' plight in Jacksonville, plenty of folks in Jacksonville will refuse to accept our opinions, primarily because we refuse to sugarcoat or neutralize our belief that the Jaguars are destined to move.

[JFLO]

The NFL needs a team in Los Angeles, it's as simple as that. It's not like they need the money or anything, but more always helps.

[Brent]

isnt the new LA stadium out in the suburbs?

[RealityCheck]

One part of me is screaming like a little girl.
The other part of me has a bad feeling.

[J-Mike88]

I hope they don't move and if they do I hope they go to a place that hasn't all ready had a chance(s) to have a team.
Jacksonville has had a chance too, and they've done horsecrappily.
Remember, Cleveland lost their team, got another. Same with St Louis, and Houston.

Los Angeles would support a team way better than Jax has done, and Jax has been a pretty good team, not like the crappy Lions or Bills, etc. so the Jags fans have no excuse there.
The NE FL market is just not that big to support an NFL team obviously, as many experts said before they got their team in the mid 90's.

I'm a midwest/central time zone kind of guy, but I'd like to see more West coast teams and fewer East coast teams.

[OSUGiants17]

This makes YFS happy

[CJSchneider]

Happy isn't the word - orgasmic probably doesn't even do it justice.

[njx9]

Los Angeles would support a team way better than Jax has done

based on what, specifically? they're utter inability to support any of the other nfl franchises they've had? yes, they'll obviously do much better this time until everyone in LA predictably loses interest in the team. they might get through a season.

[Brent]

based on what, specifically? they're utter inability to support any of the other nfl franchises they've had? yes, they'll obviously do much better this time until everyone in LA predictably loses interest in the team. they might get through a season.
do you really think watching a game at LA Coliseum has ever been appealing to any one who isnt a USC fan? that place sucks.

[McBain]

Happy isn't the word - orgasmic probably doesn't even do it justice.

Yeh, i can just imagine him propelling fiery loads of seman to the idea of his favorite football team moving to the city he lives in.

Oh.... wait you said beyond that.

Yeh, i can just imagine space zombies with lazers puffing the herb to the idea of his favorite football team moving to the city he lives in.

[Don Vito]

LA is one great big festering neon distraction, bull **** freak show three ring circus

Now I'm done, hopefully at least one person knows where that is from

[BeerBaron]

LA is one great big festering neon distraction, bull **** freak show three ring circus

Now I'm done, hopefully at least one person knows where that is from

The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. See you down in Arizona Bay.

[fenikz]

uCEeAn6_QJo

[BRAVEHEART]

Look at this L.A. hate.

[fenikz]

lol if you don't like it you can take off the sig i made you

[njx9]

do you really think watching a game at LA Coliseum has ever been appealing to any one who isnt a USC fan? that place sucks.

*shrug* the rams played in anaheim. then moved to the massive media market of st louis to get away from not being able to make money in small town LA.

[vikes_28]

based on what, specifically? they're utter inability to support any of the other nfl franchises they've had? yes, they'll obviously do much better this time until everyone in LA predictably loses interest in the team. they might get through a season.

Their.

I don't mean to point out your errors. But that is the only grammar error that really irritates me.

Back on topic now. I can hear the clock ticking for when the Vikings move to LA. :(

[Brent]

*shrug* the rams played in anaheim. then moved to the massive media market of st louis to get away from not being able to make money in small town LA.
Anaheim Stadium was not made for football. Plus, Carroll Rosenbloom wasnt a great owner.

[BRAVEHEART]

lol if you don't like it you can take off the sig i made you


Now why would I want to do that?

[njx9]

Their.


fair enough... that's what i get for altering part of my sentence and not checking the rest.

Anaheim Stadium was not made for football. Plus, Carroll Rosenbloom wasnt a great owner.

i don't know that that's relevant. mile high wasn't made for baseball and the rockies sold out 70,000+ seats every game they played.

i dunno. i get that the owners see the tv market and repeatedly get blinded by the potential dollar signs. but i still don't think that a team in LA is better for the tv numbers than playing the 3 or 4 best matchups each sunday. but i'm constantly surprised by fans who, in spite of all evidence, think that LA will be a great NFL town for a franchise that isn't one of the best teams in the league every year.

[J-Mike88]

based on what, specifically? they're utter inability to support any of the other nfl franchises they've had? yes, they'll obviously do much better this time until everyone in LA predictably loses interest in the team. they might get through a season.

*shrug* the rams played in anaheim. then moved to the massive media market of st louis to get away from not being able to make money in small town LA.
And when was that again? Before the small town of Houston lost their Oilers?

Anaheim has changed a lot since the days of Pat Haden and Vince Feragamo, and so has the city of Angels.

If you think Jacksonville has supported a team well enough through winning seasons to keep them, you need to raise your standards.

This is 2010, and this is the NFL.

[njx9]

And when was that again? Before the small town of Houston lose their Oilers?

Anaheim has changed a lot since the days of Pat Haden and Vince Feragamo, and so has the city of Angels.

If you think Jacksonville has supported a team well enough through winning seasons to keep them, you need to raise your standards.

This is 2010, and this is the NFL.

i'm sure you'll let me know when any of this has to do with the question i asked. though the last statement *was* particularly insightful. nice work.

[Brent]

i don't know that that's relevant. mile high wasn't made for baseball and the rockies sold out 70,000+ seats every game they played.

i dunno. i get that the owners see the tv market and repeatedly get blinded by the potential dollar signs. but i still don't think that a team in LA is better for the tv numbers than playing the 3 or 4 best matchups each sunday. but i'm constantly surprised by fans who, in spite of all evidence, think that LA will be a great NFL town for a franchise that isn't one of the best teams in the league every year.
Well, I don't know if a team in LA will succeed. I agree that the owners see the potential TV market and wet themselves, but I'd like to believe that if they built a new stadium and moved it out into the richer suburbs that a team might thrive.

You, of all people here, should well know that Colorado is a very sports-friendly town. The Rockies early success wasnt really that shocking. I can't tell you how many times I went into a Denver establishment wearing a Giants cap and had people say crap about the Rockies.

Regardless, I think a team can succeed but they would really have to pander to the celebrity culture.

[Shiver]

uCEeAn6_QJo


You must spread some reputation around before giving it to fenikz again.

[njx9]

Well, I don't know if a team in LA will succeed. I agree that the owners see the potential TV market and wet themselves, but I'd like to believe that if they built a new stadium and moved it out into the richer suburbs that a team might thrive.

i don't know that that will do it. i just don't think LA has an NFL 'culture'. i think they do ok with the NBA, presuming the lakers are contending. i don't know nearly enough about baseball to talk about it. *shrug* maybe you're right, and whatever changes this time will help (or LA football fans will realize that the team will actually leave if they don't bother showing up/supporting it).

You, of all people here, should well know that Colorado is a very sports-friendly town. The Rockies early success wasnt really that shocking. I can't tell you how many times I went into a Denver establishment wearing a Giants cap and had people say crap about the Rockies.

right, but isn't that kind of the point? i don't buy that LA really is.

Regardless, I think a team can succeed but they would really have to pander to the celebrity culture.

i think this is far more key, as pathetic as it is.

[Brent]

i don't know that that will do it. i just don't think LA has an NFL 'culture'. i think they do ok with the NBA, presuming the lakers are contending. i don't know nearly enough about baseball to talk about it. *shrug* maybe you're right, and whatever changes this time will help (or LA football fans will realize that the team will actually leave if they don't bother showing up/supporting it).
I think the town will support any team, but, as I said before, they have to go about it in a very particular way.

right, but isn't that kind of the point? i don't buy that LA really is.
And, from past events, there is no reason to think otherwise, but if they are going to attempt another team in LA, I figure I'd offer my two cents on what I think they should/can/might do.

i think this is far more key, as pathetic as it is.
It's so true, though. If they make it a social thing, every two-bit ******* "celebrity" will be going games; which, in turn, attracts all the parasitic **** that comes with their nonsense. NFL doesn't care if the people are watching the game, they just want their asses in the seats and their cash in the bank.

[killxswitch]

I don't necessarily think an LA team is doomed from the start. Yes they've failed in the past, but the NFL as a whole is a lot more popular now than it was when the Raiders and Rams were there. Other than NY I don't know of an American city with more turnover so the market now will be different than the market at the time. With a new stadium and a new set of fans (and perhaps some former fans who will have learned their lesson for not appreciating their team previously) I can see it working. It doesn't mean it will, but I don't think it's a given that it won't.

The problem is, where else would they put the Jags? They can't stay in Jax, they just can't. If they're down to locking people out of scrimmages as a way to drive ticket sales then things are BAD. Where else would they go?

I guess you could say San Antonio but does Texas really need another football team? A 3rd NFL team on top of all the college teams, probably not. San Jose is a possibility I guess, they have more people than several NFL cities like Indy, Detroit, and Baltimore. But that's probably too close to Oakland. Ohio doesn't need a 3rd team. I doubt Louisville, KY could handle an NFL team. Vegas wouldn't have enough high-income residents to field enough season ticket holders. I don't know much about Portland, maybe they would want an NFL team?

[Brent]

I guess you could say San Antonio but does Texas really need another football team? A 3rd NFL team on top of all the college teams, probably not. San Jose is a possibility I guess, they have more people than several NFL cities like Indy, Detroit, and Baltimore. But that's probably too close to Oakland. Ohio doesn't need a 3rd team. I doubt Louisville, KY could handle an NFL team. Vegas wouldn't have enough high-income residents to field enough season ticket holders. I don't know much about Portland, maybe they would want an NFL team?
San Antonio is too poor to afford a pro team. Population doesnt translate to wealth. San Jose is Niners/Raiders country. I would be shocked if they moved to a small market place like Kentucky. Portland wouldn't be a good place for a team; too many people who are from other cities.

[CJSchneider]

I don't necessarily think an LA team is doomed from the start. Yes they've failed in the past...

I've heard all the previous arguments, but let's not forget, much of the failure of the Raiders and Rams to stay in L.A. was the fault of the owners, Given the right ownership, I think a team in L.A. could do just fine.

[RealityCheck]

The City of Industry owns.

SA doesn't want an UFL team, let alone a NFL one.

[Splat]

The NFL needs a team in Los Angeles, it's as simple as that.

This made me laugh, last time I checked the NFL was doing just fine with out LA.

[XxXdragonXxX]

Sweet, then they could put the Jaguars in the NFC West and the Rams in the AFC South. That would solve at least a small portion of NFC West travel issues.

[vidae]

We've heard/read that Goodell wanted to try to move a team into another country entirely.. could this be the time?

Canada or Mexico seem the most likely, being the closest to us, but it really could be anywhere.

[yourfavestoner]

Unless the NFL or somebody else plans on fronting the $60 million it would take for the Jaguars to break out of their lease for Jacksonville Municipal Stadium (signed through 2030), the Jags don't really have a lot of options. They're stuck.

It's gonna be the Vikings, guys. Trust me. Their stadium lease is up next year; their owner desperately wants a new stadium and doesn't seem particular committed to Minnesota; plus, the tax payers just footed the bill for new stadiums for the Golden Gophers and Twins and are vehemently against funding a third.

I've said it over and over, no team has ever relocated due to attendance issues. It's always been about stadiums.

As it stands right now, nothing is going to get done before a new CBA deal is reached. They're not even going to start constructing the damn stadium until then.

I sure as hell hope the Jags move out here, though.

[BeerBaron]

Honestly, I don't think the stadium lease buyout is that big of obstacle. If the Jags continue to see 9 out of 10 home games blacked out, the NFL might soon step in.

With all of their recent efforts to improve the game day experience at the stadiums to keep people coming out to the games rather than just watching them at home, dumping $60 million to pull a team out of a deadzone and into one of the nation's biggest markets where the NFL has wanted a team for years seems like a bargain price. If they think they could make it back having the team elsewhere pretty quickly, I think they could do it.

Think about it this way. One major obstacle in the CBA negotiations is getting all of the owners on the same page. The highly profitable, big-market teams don't like having to share so much of their profit with the (comparatively) tiny market teams (like the Jags,) so if the rest of the league were to split the cost of buying them out of their lease (less than $2 million per team) they'd be sure to make that back and probably much more by having a team in a larger and what should be far more successful market.

And you have to think the NFL would rather get the Bills to Toronto and the Jags to LA long before they'd want to see the Vikings move out of a supportive fan base in Minnesota. I don't know how much control they have over the situation, but any real fan of the NFL doesn't want to see the Vikings move.....they actually have a reasonably good history and are a successful team right now.

[Brent]

Unless the NFL or somebody else plans on fronting the $60 million it would take for the Jaguars to break out of their lease for Jacksonville Municipal Stadium (signed through 2030), the Jags don't really have a lot of options. They're stuck.

It's gonna be the Vikings, guys. Trust me. Their stadium lease is up next year; their owner desperately wants a new stadium and doesn't seem particular committed to Minnesota; plus, the tax payers just footed the bill for new stadiums for the Golden Gophers and Twins and are vehemently against funding a third.

I've said it over and over, no team has ever relocated due to attendance issues. It's always been about stadiums.
The NFL would drop $60 million if it meant a team in LA with a new stadium.

And you have to think the NFL would rather get the Bills to Toronto and the Jags to LA long before they'd want to see the Vikings move out of a supportive fan base in Minnesota.
I dont think the fan base in Minnesota is what the NFL cares about; their money on the other hand...

[yourfavestoner]

Honestly, I don't think the stadium lease buyout is that big of obstacle. If the Jags continue to see 9 out of 10 home games blacked out, the NFL might soon step in.

With all of their recent efforts to improve the game day experience at the stadiums to keep people coming out to the games rather than just watching them at home, dumping $60 million to pull a team out of a deadzone and into one of the nation's biggest markets where the NFL has wanted a team for years seems like a bargain price. If they think they could make it back having the team elsewhere pretty quickly, I think they could do it.

Think about it this way. One major obstacle in the CBA negotiations is getting all of the owners on the same page. The highly profitable, big-market teams don't like having to share so much of their profit with the (comparatively) tiny market teams (like the Jags,) so if the rest of the league were to split the cost of buying them out of their lease (less than $2 million per team) they'd be sure to make that back and probably much more by having a team in a larger and what should be far more successful market.

And you have to think the NFL would rather get the Bills to Toronto and the Jags to LA long before they'd want to see the Vikings move out of a supportive fan base in Minnesota. I don't know how much control they have over the situation, but any real fan of the NFL doesn't want to see the Vikings move.....they actually have a reasonably good history and are a successful team right now.

If most of the Jags' games are blacked out this year, I could definitely see the owners pooling together money to get them out of the lease. Another obstacle the league would have to overcome is getting Weaver to sell the team. He's committed to the city of Jacksonville to the point that he never got a chance for the team to really survive there. In the early days, when blackouts were first starting to happen, he would buy the remaining tickets so people could watch the game from home. He also did that stupid promotional deal with Winn-Dixie (who bought all remaining tickets for every game one season). Literally, all you had to do was go to a Winn-Dixie supermarket and ASK for tickets. And you'd get them for free. And people still didn't go. He's also the one that pushed for such a long stadium lease with the city. In what was an attempt to show committment, he essentially threw away any relocation leverage he had completely out the window. All of the gestures were really, really nice of him, but it fostered an environment where people in Jax just got used to watching the games in front of their TVs, instead of creating a demand for actually GOING to the game.

Also, here's a blurb from Jags beat writer Vic Ketchman on the LA situation:
David from Jacksonville
I think Los Angeles has had two teams before and I’m guessing they moved because of stadium issues. This was before my time so I could be wrong. My question is how were ticket sales in Los Angeles? What was the fan base like?

Vic: You’re right, stadium issues were at the root of the instability in Los Angeles. I’m going to use the Raiders as an example of that instability caused by stadium issues, because the Raiders were the last team to play in the Coliseum. The Rams had moved to the baseball park in Anaheim, which was absolutely dreadful for football. Plus, when the Rams last played in the Coliseum, they had it downsized and tightened, so the highs and lows aren’t as obvious. For the Rams, moving out of the Coliseum was about it not having luxury boxes. In 1984, in the Raiders’ third season in Los Angeles and as defending Super Bowl champions, the Raiders drew crowds of 80,674, 80,929, 92,469 and 87,291. Pretty impressive, huh? Yeah, the Coliseum’s huge seating capacity offered the potential for huge crowds, but the problem was that it also offered the potential for a lot of empty seats when the team wasn’t winning. That’s one of the stadium issues. Too big is a major problem because it allows fans to pick and choose the games they want to see. In ’85 and ’86, the Raiders were still topping the 90,000 mark, but then their play started to decline and so did attendance. There were a lot of attendances in the 40’s in ’88 and ’89. Even at that, I think Los Angeles would’ve been able to keep the Raiders had it shown any forward motion on a stadium resolution. The Coliseum was falling hard into disrepair. I covered a game there in ’94 for which the press box was closed because it was deemed unsafe. We were moved into a temporary facility in the peristyle end of the stadium. At that point, the Coliseum was no longer suitable to host NFL games, there was no resolution in sight and Al Davis had no choice but to go back to Oakland. The situation in Los Angeles, in my opinion, has been grossly misrepresented.

So take that njx :p

[wordofi]

isnt the new LA stadium out in the suburbs?

It's in Industry.

[yourfavestoner]

It's in Industry.

That's not even guaranteed yet, though. There are talks now of rennovating the area around the LA convention center and putting a stadium there. Terrible idea IMO, downtown LA is already congested enough. The original proposed site in Industry is perfect.

[BeerBaron]

I dont think the fan base in Minnesota is what the NFL cares about; their money on the other hand...

If they absolutely can't move the Jags, then they won't care about the fanbase and do what it takes to get the money.

My point was just that I think they'd much rather move the Jags out of the black hole into the 2nd best market, rather than a team who is already doing well in their market.

[LizardState]

Thx to beerbaron for the good article.

As much as I've ragged on J-ville here to be fair they were dealt a bad hand by the NFL. Remember when the owners made statements about the Jags presentation before the league expanded? Everyone considered them a no-chance joke until they saw the hundred million $ they ponied up for their admission at the door, they sang the cold cash tune the NFL owners love to hear more than any other.

Then they were put in the same division as Indy & got sliced & diced twice a yr by Peyton Manning & Co. Then Coughlin had an internal scandal that he couldn't contain or control, the physical therapists who botched the treatment of several Jag linemen including All Pro OT Tony Boselli & ruined several careers for which they got sued for megabucks, that did not help the front office's image with the players around the league or the other owners.

Their facility was the worst in the league when the Vet was imploded in Phillly, as mentioned way too large & the fanbase too small. J-ville is one of the largest cities in the us in terms of sq. miles, just not in population & that population is so far flung it made getting to the old Gator Bowl difficult & expensive. Lots of civil service, military & retired Navy there & they don't have the $ to afford ever increasing season ticket costs -- as their reputation as the NFL's weakest sister grew so did the rumors of moving to LA.

Some said that Taglaibue would have retained his NFL Commissioner job if he had put a team in LA, so putting one there became a top priority for Goddell. Looks like he might get his wish, whether there's a stadium in LA or not.

[LizardState]

I guess you could say San Antonio but does Texas really need another football team? A 3rd NFL team on top of all the college teams, probably not. San Jose is a possibility I guess, they have more people than several NFL cities like Indy, Detroit, and Baltimore. But that's probably too close to Oakland. Ohio doesn't need a 3rd team. I doubt Louisville, KY could handle an NFL team. Vegas wouldn't have enough high-income residents to field enough season ticket holders. I don't know much about Portland, maybe they would want an NFL team?

San Antonio is too poor to afford a pro team. Population doesnt translate to wealth. San Jose is Niners/Raiders country. I would be shocked if they moved to a small market place like Kentucky. Portland wouldn't be a good place for a team; too many people who are from other cities.

True, Brent, true. If the 9ers & Dr. York get their way the team will be playing in Santa Clara a stone's throw from the San Jose city limits by 2012 anyway.

Even when SA/TX had the Toros, the Wings, & the Gunslingers in the also-ran leagues San Antonians got better quality FB on Saturdays by driving 90 mi. up I-35 to Austin for the Horns, they have never supported an NFL team & never will. The sole exception might be the short time the Katrina emigrant Saints played some home games there, my friends in NOLA all thought they had lost the Saints forever b/c the Katrina effect was so devastating for their city, but look at what a huge difference 5 yrs. later meant, SB champion NOLA Saints!

A weird coincidence was 2 competing SA/TX auto dealers from the 1960s, Tom Benson (Saints owner, Chevy dealer) & Red McCombs (former Spurs, Denver Nuggets & Minnesota Vikes owner, Ford dealer) both swore to bring the NFL to San Antonio at various times over 3 decades, never happened.

[nepg]

The NFL is a much different animal than it was in the late 80s-early 90s... LA would be a good NFL town these days. More people understand the game, more people like to go to the game even if they don't know anything about it, and the marketing of the NFL has improved amazingly over the last 20 years.

It's time for LA to get another chance.