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bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 02:53 PM
So since this is the slowest part of the year, I figure I'd take a crack at this. This is an all underrated team that I feel is comprised of players who I personally feel are either elite, or near elite players who don't get much recognition on this board as being such. If we make a generic all underrated team, it can get messy bc many players are underrated by the masses, but not underrated on this forum. So I tried making a list of guys who we as a forum underrate. There are several legitimately underrated players off this list, and the reason being is because we recognize them as elite players. This was not as easy as you may think, I really had to go back and dig deep to find a legitimate underrated group that is not often discussed on here who are still elite players based on what i saw out of them on sundays.

I've been looking at a lot of games this offseason from last year, and these guys all stood out to me for different reasons. I can give a lengthy reasoning for each player, so if you want to know why I picked a specific player, just ask about it and I'll give you my reasons for him being on the list.

So anyway, here it is. Judge, critique, tell me how wrong I am, offer alternatives, let me have it. It's a slow time this offseason and this can perhaps kill some time.


4-3 Front 7

LE: Robert Mathis
NT: Domata Peko
UT: Mike Patterson
RE: Aaron Kampman

WILL: Keith Rivers
MIKE: Gary Brackett
SAM: Ben Leber

3-4 Front 7

LE: Randy Starks
NT: Aubrayo Franklin
RE: Calais Campbell

SOLB: Anthony Spencer
SILB: James Farrior
WILB: Takeo Spikes
WOLB: Cameron Wake

HONORARY MENTION: Ahmad Brooks

CB: Terrell Thomas
CB: Chris Gamble
FS: Tarnard Jackson
SS: Brandon Merriweather

NOTE: I understand Merriweather is a FS, but I couldn't decide between Jackson and Merriweather so I threw him to SS since he's capable of playing both positions.

Offense

QB: Matt Schaub

RB: Ricky Williams
FB: Vonta Leach

LT: Sam Baker
LG: Kris Dielman
C: Ryan Khalil
RG: Justin Blalock
RT: Winston Justice

NOTE: I know Blalock is a LG, but I felt both Dielman and Blalock needed to be on this list. I was thinking about adding Grubbs and Nicks to the fold, but they get recognition on this forum so they don't fit the criteria i was going for.

TE: Heath Miller/Anthony Fasano

WR: Robert Meachem
WR: Jericho Cotchery

Brent
06-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Justin Smith deserves at least a mention

Vox Populi
06-28-2010, 03:12 PM
Bills DT Kyle Williams or gtfo

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 03:13 PM
Justin Smith deserves at least a mention

He does. He just missed the cut for me. I think Campbell is on the cusp of being a premiere 3-4 DE in this league, he can stuff the run and rush the passer as good as any 3-4 End in the league.

Starks is a Justin Smith clone. I gave him the edge bc of his versatilty, how he can kick inside and penetrate better than Smith and how he's playing NT for Nolan this year.

That gave him the slight edge over Smith to me. Starks doesn't benefit playing next to a monster NT like Smith does as well, which is something I factored into my decision.

prock
06-28-2010, 03:14 PM
Not too sure about Ben Leber. I think Greenway is better than him and still very underrated.

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 03:15 PM
Bills DT Kyle Williams or gtfo

For the most part, I excluded guys going into a new system bc quite frankly, we don't know how they'll perform in the new formation until we actually see it.

I know Kawika Mitchell is my exception to that reasoning, and that's because I've seen him extensively over the years, and I know he can thrive in any system.

Plus it was either him or Takeo Spikes, and I chose Kawika bc he's the superior player.

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 03:19 PM
Not too sure about Ben Leber. I think Greenway is better than him and still very underrated.

I'm evaluating Leber as a SAM. There aren't many elite 4-3 SAMs in the league anymore, it's a dying position. Often times teams are taking DEs and lining them up at SAM and playing them as Jokers, so the traditional 4-3 SAM is vanishing.

The only truly elite one is Cushing, and well...you know.

I pimp Greenway all the time. As much as I hated him coming out, I readily admit he's a beast. I believe thats the general consensus among the board.

Keith Rivers is better than Greenway however, and gets lost in a lot of discussion just as much as Greenway does. Rivers is a PB caliber player. I think Greenway is great, but he's a notch below Rivers.

marshallb
06-28-2010, 03:21 PM
Not too sure about Ben Leber. I think Greenway is better than him and still very underrated.

I think Leber is very underrated as well, but I don't know that he really fits into the criteria because of this: This is an all underrated team that I feel is comprised of players who I personally feel are either elite, or near elite players
I know Leber isn't elite, and I don't consider him near elite. I do think he's an above average NFL LB, but to me he's not in that near elite category. I do like to see him get some recognition for all that he's done over the past few years, especially when EJ's gotten hurt and he's played some Mike and took over the play calling.

As far as Greenway goes, I feel he's vastly underrated by the masses, but I think that for the most part this forum knows how good he is.

SuperMcGee
06-28-2010, 03:21 PM
Considering where and how he has been playing in recent years, I would disagree with Kawika Mitchell. A fine starter, but I don't see what makes him nearly elite. We'll see how it goes with him actually playing that position this year, if he can even win a starting job. I agree that he doesn't lose anything switching between schemes, but I disagree on him being a special player.

Splat
06-28-2010, 03:23 PM
Considering where and how he has been playing in recent years, I would disagree with Kawika Mitchell. A fine starter, but I don't see what makes him nearly elite. We'll see how it goes with him actually playing that position this year, if he can even win a starting job.

This.

He was average at best for the Chiefs, his game has improved but he is still nothing special.

BeerBaron
06-28-2010, 03:24 PM
I think you might be jumping the gun a little on Cameron Wake. You're not the only one who has though. I could see him on a list of potential breakout players headed into next season, but in my mind, someone who qualifies as underrated has to have performed well (in the NFL) without much recognition, and most players on your list are like that.

As for Wake...lets see him start a whole year before we go classifying him as anything.

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 03:28 PM
Considering where and how he has been playing in recent years, I would disagree with Kawika Mitchell. A fine starter, but I don't see what makes him nearly elite. We'll see how it goes with him actually playing that position this year, if he can even win a starting job. I agree that he doesn't lose anything switching between schemes, but I disagree on him being a special player.

From what I saw of him in Buffalo, I thought he was a beast. He was injured this year, but in 08, he was arguably your best player on defense.

He is a great goalline run defender, he is a great run defender period, an excellent blitzer, and he's improved his pass coverage quite a bit. I personally feel like the Giants made a big mistake letting him go.

He also has a knack for making a big play in big moments. He did it with the Giants, and he did it with the Bills.

I didn't want to mention Bart Scott bc quite frankly, Scott is on the downside of his career. Same with Takeo Spikes, who actually plays much better than he's given credit for.

Other than those 2 guys, most great ILBs are pretty much recognized as such. So that was another position that I struggled filling in based on my criteria.

I think Leber is very underrated as well, but I don't know that he really fits into the criteria because of this:
I know Leber isn't elite, and I don't consider him near elite. I do think he's an above average NFL LB, but to me he's not in that near elite category. I do like to see him get some recognition for all that he's done over the past few years, especially when EJ's gotten hurt and he's played some Mike and took over the play calling.

As far as Greenway goes, I feel he's vastly underrated by the masses, but I think that for the most part this forum knows how good he is.

I understand where you're coming from, but to repeat what I said earlier, I think there is only 1 truly elite 4-3 SAM in the league, and it's Brian Cushing.

So I kind of had to fill that spot as well as possible considering the circumstances.

Nalej
06-28-2010, 03:36 PM
I think A.Franklin is a beast

619
06-28-2010, 03:40 PM
Any team is incomplete without mention of Tyvon Branch.

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 03:41 PM
I think you might be jumping the gun a little on Cameron Wake. You're not the only one who has though. I could see him on a list of potential breakout players headed into next season, but in my mind, someone who qualifies as underrated has to have performed well (in the NFL) without much recognition, and most players on your list are like that.

As for Wake...lets see him start a whole year before we go classifying him as anything.

Yeah I was expecting him to be the first guy people pointed out. I anticipate him being special for several reasons.

First and foremost, he stuck out every time he got to see the field last year. The dude can flat out rush the passer. Plus Ive stated several times in the past that I feel that the undersized 3-4 rushbackers are the new mismatch in the NFL.

Wake produces, he gives linemen trouble based on his size, and I think he'll thrive in a full time role. He has experience too. It's just a bold assumption on my part, but I see no reason why he won't thrive next year.

Especially under Nolan, who knows exactly how to use him.

BeerBaron
06-28-2010, 03:57 PM
Yeah I was expecting him to be the first guy people pointed out. I anticipate him being special for several reasons.

First and foremost, he stuck out every time he got to see the field last year. The dude can flat out rush the passer. Plus Ive stated several times in the past that I feel that the undersized 3-4 rushbackers are the new mismatch in the NFL.

Wake produces, he gives linemen trouble based on his size, and I think he'll thrive in a full time role. He has experience too. It's just a bold assumption on my part, but I see no reason why he won't thrive next year.

Especially under Nolan, who knows exactly how to use him.

He's listed at 6'3 250....not quite Dumervil or Harrison level undersized. I'd like to see him start a full season before I'd put him on an any kind of rated list.

SuperMcGee
06-28-2010, 04:08 PM
From what I saw of him in Buffalo, I thought he was a beast. He was injured this year, but in 08, he was arguably your best player on defense.

He is a great goalline run defender, he is a great run defender period, an excellent blitzer, and he's improved his pass coverage quite a bit. I personally feel like the Giants made a big mistake letting him go.

He also has a knack for making a big play in big moments. He did it with the Giants, and he did it with the Bills.

I didn't want to mention Bart Scott bc quite frankly, Scott is on the downside of his career. Same with Takeo Spikes, who actually plays much better than he's given credit for.

Other than those 2 guys, most great ILBs are pretty much recognized as such. So that was another position that I struggled filling in based on my criteria.


Some I can agree with, some I feel like would be a conclusion you would draw from watching highlights.

Honestly, I might not be able to disagree with him being our best player in '08. (edit - Wait, that's a lie. Jabari Greer was.) But I don't put that as a major testament to his skill. He did make the big plays, as you mentioned. Watching him against San Diego that year, he had an unreal game/4th quarter to seal the victory. Same thing against Denver.

His goalline run defense hasn't stood out as a great strength since he's been in Buffalo. He's taken some pretty bad angles, missed his gap, missed people in space as much as most others. Not terribly frequent, but I wouldn't call him a great run defender. He is our best blitzer, for sure, and a very good one. But on the whole, I just see him as an average starter, but a guy that has held decent value in a weak LB corps.

UKfan
06-28-2010, 04:13 PM
So glad you put Brack in there BBD, he's vastly underrated, fantastic instincts and nose for the football, never caught out on a play... We'd miss him immensely if he went down

TACKLE
06-28-2010, 04:16 PM
Good list. The one guy I felt really needed to be on this list is Tony Brown from the Titans. He is very impressive everytime I watch him. He's very powerful against the run and is still an athletic effective pass rusher. imo, he's easily one of the top 4-3 DT's in the NFL and gets no where near the recognition he deserves.

edit - Idk how but I didn't see the offense.

I love Ricky at RB. He took that team on his back during the second half of last season. He is probably the best workhorse back in the NFL. I like the O-Line with the exception of Winston Justice. I have never been very impressed with him. Guys I'd take over are Eric Winston who is a great athlete and has been a rock on the right side for the Texans. Also Jeff Otah who is the best run blocking OT in the NFL and is also surprisingly nimble in pass pro too. A year ago I would have said David Stewart but I think he's finally getting the recognition he deserves.

wicket
06-28-2010, 04:20 PM
the saints i really wanted to see on that list wouldve been jabari greer, he was unreal last season

Vox Populi
06-28-2010, 04:32 PM
the saints i really wanted to see on that list wouldve been jabari greer, he was unreal last season

Except people know that he was. His last year and a half in Buffalo are when he would have been on the list.

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 04:38 PM
Some I can agree with, some I feel like would be a conclusion you would draw from watching highlights.

Honestly, I might not be able to disagree with him being our best player in '08. (edit - Wait, that's a lie. Jabari Greer was.) But I don't put that as a major testament to his skill. He did make the big plays, as you mentioned. Watching him against San Diego that year, he had an unreal game/4th quarter to seal the victory. Same thing against Denver.

His goalline run defense hasn't stood out as a great strength since he's been in Buffalo. He's taken some pretty bad angles, missed his gap, missed people in space as much as most others. Not terribly frequent, but I wouldn't call him a great run defender. He is our best blitzer, for sure, and a very good one. But on the whole, I just see him as an average starter, but a guy that has held decent value in a weak LB corps.

See, from what I saw, I blame much of your rush defense on that dline. Your LBs are dead in the water many times bc of that dline. And superficially it looks like his fault, but its not. And shoddy line play has a domino effect on the rest of the team.

It's hard for an LB to really dominate from the weakside position if the rest of the front 7 is playing as poorly as it did. That position operates in space, and the ability to roam and make plays. If theres no space to make a play, you won't make one.

But he's shown that when he's very capable of making elite plays, especially in crunch time.

So glad you put Brack in there BBD, he's vastly underrated, fantastic instincts and nose for the football, never caught out on a play... We'd miss him immensely if he went down

He was by far my favorite player on this list. I don't think people realize how good Gary Brackett is. He's ridiculously underrated. The guy is always making plays. He's never out of position, he's a great run defender, he is great in coverage, he makes key plays in key moments, he's a leader, he's smart, he's everything you want in an LB.

Why are we not talking this guy up? He's just as good as any LB we speak of on this forum. Watch him play. The dude makes plays. All the time. He might be the most underrated player in the league.

the saints i really wanted to see on that list wouldve been jabari greer, he was unreal last season

You know I love me some Greer, but everyone on this board already acknowledges he's a stud.

gpngc
06-28-2010, 05:24 PM
Brandon Mebane.

Hines
06-28-2010, 05:46 PM
Call me a homer, but I believe Ike Taylor is an underrated cornerback. Here's why:

Although he lacks soft hands to make a catch, he's almost always in perfect position to make a play. He gets quite a bit of PBUs every year.

He goes 1 on 1 against the best recievers and does very well against them. Ask Chad how good Ike is.

He's one of the best run stopping corners in the league. Dude is always near the top in tackles on our team.

Yeah he had a bad season last year, but that was uncommon. The whole team was bad. I believe this team will be focused and bring out their best. IMO, if Ike was able to catch the ball, he'd be in multiple Pro Bowls by now.

Just my two cents.

ATLDirtyBirds
06-28-2010, 05:53 PM
I'll comment on the two Falcons you have on the list. I'll agree with Sam Baker when he's healthy. He looked Pro-Bowl good when he was healthy. He did an OK job playing hurt, but the problem is he is hurt too much.


And I'll have to definitely disagree on Justin Blalock. I really feel as if he's been the weak point of our offensive line. I'm not going to act like I do extensive film study of him on every single snap, but I just don't think that he's good. And while this certainly isn't the end all be all, ProFootballFocus.com agrees with me on the issue.

RaiderNation
06-28-2010, 05:55 PM
Raiders SS Tyvon Branch. Only 23 years old and is one of the best SS in the game. Look out this year if our defense stops the run he will get his ints #'s up

wonderbredd24
06-28-2010, 05:57 PM
Call me a homer, but I believe Ike Taylor is an underrated cornerback. Here's why:

Although he lacks soft hands to make a catch, he's almost always in perfect position to make a play. He gets quite a bit of PBUs every year.

He goes 1 on 1 against the best recievers and does very well against them. Ask Chad how good Ike is.

He's one of the best run stopping corners in the league. Dude is always near the top in tackles on our team.

Yeah he had a bad season last year, but that was uncommon. The whole team was bad. I believe this team will be focused and bring out their best. IMO, if Ike was able to catch the ball, he'd be in multiple Pro Bowls by now.

Just my two cents.
Toast still sucks. No one is afraid to go after him at all. I'll take both Bengals corners and Eric Wright over him all day in our division.

I also am curious how Kris Dielman is underrated. Isn't the guy playing on a $50 million contract right now?

Hines
06-28-2010, 06:05 PM
Toast still sucks. No one is afraid to go after him at all. I'll take both Bengals corners and Eric Wright over him all day in our division.

I also am curious how Kris Dielman is underrated. Isn't the guy playing on a $50 million contract right now?

Noone is afraid of him because he can't catch the damn ball. If he had Champ Bailey hands or Cromartie hands, I think you'd see a lot less passes thrown his way. Not saying he's the best corner in the division, because he's not. I am saying that he's underapreciated in the general eye.

Dam8610
06-28-2010, 06:14 PM
BBD, I know Mathis may be listed as LE and Kampman as RE, but IMO Mathis at RE and Kampman at LE would work far better than what you have on your 4-3 front. Mathis is more of a natural RE and pure pass rusher than Kampman, and Kampman is the more complete, well-rounded DE, making him the better fit at LE.

prock
06-28-2010, 06:16 PM
Call me a homer, but I believe Ike Taylor is an underrated cornerback. Here's why:

Although he lacks soft hands to make a catch, he's almost always in perfect position to make a play. He gets quite a bit of PBUs every year.

He goes 1 on 1 against the best recievers and does very well against them. Ask Chad how good Ike is.

He's one of the best run stopping corners in the league. Dude is always near the top in tackles on our team.

Yeah he had a bad season last year, but that was uncommon. The whole team was bad. I believe this team will be focused and bring out their best. IMO, if Ike was able to catch the ball, he'd be in multiple Pro Bowls by now.

Just my two cents.

Ike is a solid corner. He is probably one of the most underrated corners in the league. I can agree with you on that. But want some good humor? See sig.

TitanHope
06-28-2010, 06:36 PM
Yeah, now that BCE has cristened Taylor as the best CB in the NFL, his credibility has taken a hit on here.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/1d536451-16a5-43d8-902f-81b40a267ac1_mn.jpg

Bernard Pollard was a freakin' beast last year. He at SS and Tanard Jackson at FS would be my safety tandem.

Dam8610
06-28-2010, 06:38 PM
Yeah, now that BCE has cristened Taylor as the best CB in the NFL, his credibility has taken a hit on here.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/1d536451-16a5-43d8-902f-81b40a267ac1_mn.jpg

Bernard Pollard was a freakin' beast last year.

Has Pollard actually become good in the NFL? I guess good coaching can go a long way in positive player development, I mean, he knew how to hit at Purdue, but that was about it.

Malaka
06-28-2010, 06:41 PM
Has Pollard actually become good in the NFL? I guess good coaching can go a long way in positive player development, I mean, he knew how to hit at Purdue, but that was about it.

Well he got cut for whatever reason from the Chiefs and I guess the lights came on for him when the Texans signed him. I have always thought he was a decent SS, nothing special.

prock
06-28-2010, 06:46 PM
No, TH, not in the NFL, one of the best of ALL TIME!!!

TitanHope
06-28-2010, 06:49 PM
Has Pollard actually become good in the NFL? I guess good coaching can go a long way in positive player development, I mean, he knew how to hit at Purdue, but that was about it.

He was better than Chris Hope last year.

Do you know how hard that is for me to say? Do you? :(

He was great last year, and had a great impact on the Texans. He and Cushing brought a physicality and swagger to the DEF. Both were playmakers that the Texans lacked outside of Super Mario and DeMeco. The guy did everything, and was a beast in run-support. He was average with the Chiefs, but was really a revelation last year with the Texans.

No, TH, not in the NFL, one of the best of ALL TIME!!!

We need to make a thread full of all the insanity nuggets that bce comes up with. The guy is just full of one-liners.

Splat
06-28-2010, 06:50 PM
Well he got cut for whatever reason from the Chiefs and I guess the lights came on for him when the Texans signed him. I have always thought he was a decent SS, nothing special.

He got cut from the Chiefs because he couldn't deal with Todd Haley which is understandable, that said he was nothing special when he was here he always went for the big hit and missed alot of tackles.

I'm not hating on him I have always liked him as a playing and glad he is starting to play well but for whatever reason it just didn't work in KC.

scottyboy
06-28-2010, 06:53 PM
mmm Gary Brackett <3

and where's Raymell Rice? No one has been calling him the best running back in the game, thus making him under-rated

Splat
06-28-2010, 06:55 PM
mmm Gary Brackett <3

and where's Raymell Rice? No one has been calling him the best running back in the game, thus making him under-rated

This is to much even from you. :)

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 07:50 PM
I'll comment on the two Falcons you have on the list. I'll agree with Sam Baker when he's healthy. He looked Pro-Bowl good when he was healthy. He did an OK job playing hurt, but the problem is he is hurt too much.


And I'll have to definitely disagree on Justin Blalock. I really feel as if he's been the weak point of our offensive line. I'm not going to act like I do extensive film study of him on every single snap, but I just don't think that he's good. And while this certainly isn't the end all be all, ProFootballFocus.com agrees with me on the issue.

To be fair, I judged Blalock off of 2 games I looked at extensively. I could be wrong on him. I can replace him with Nicks, or Grubbs, or Todd Heremans. I'll chalk that one up to lazy studying on my part.

Raiders SS Tyvon Branch. Only 23 years old and is one of the best SS in the game. Look out this year if our defense stops the run he will get his ints #'s up

Tackle #s don't make you elite. Especially when you get those tackles because your front 7 can't stop the run. I'm skeptical on him, I need to see more.

Toast still sucks. No one is afraid to go after him at all. I'll take both Bengals corners and Eric Wright over him all day in our division.

I also am curious how Kris Dielman is underrated. Isn't the guy playing on a $50 million contract right now?

Money is irrelevant honestly. His name isn't mentioned with the top OGs in the league and it deserves to be. Eli Manning makes 100 mill and I can make a legitimate argument to say he's underrated on here. But I left his name out bc I want this thread to be about other positions, and I knew bringing him up would make this an Eli thread.

Jay Cutler is another qb I strongly considered.

BBD, I know Mathis may be listed as LE and Kampman as RE, but IMO Mathis at RE and Kampman at LE would work far better than what you have on your 4-3 front. Mathis is more of a natural RE and pure pass rusher than Kampman, and Kampman is the more complete, well-rounded DE, making him the better fit at LE.

I know, but Mathis lines up at LE on the field, and Kampman for some odd reason is lining up at RE for the Jags this year, so I stayed true to their positions. I didn't want to move guys around too much bc that would open up Pandora's box.

I was thinking about putting Trent Cole at RE, but I think we all agree he's a beast. The reason why Cole is underrated is bc he's a top 5 DE in the league, and not many ppl would agree with me on that.

Yeah, now that BCE has cristened Taylor as the best CB in the NFL, his credibility has taken a hit on here.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/1d536451-16a5-43d8-902f-81b40a267ac1_mn.jpg

Bernard Pollard was a freakin' beast last year. He at SS and Tanard Jackson at FS would be my safety tandem.

Pollard was a beast. And I was strongly considering putting him as my SS. But I didn't want to leave out Merriweather or Jackson, so I used them as a duo instead.

But yes, Pollard is a guy who deserves mention.

zachsaints52
06-28-2010, 07:55 PM
Kirk Morrison- I am honestly gonna get the Jags defense in my fantasy leagues because I think him and the draft/signing of Kampman brings this team into top half of the NFL defenses. He is a vocal leader.

Mike Karney- Ever wonder why Steven Jackson did as well as he did last year with that bad of a OL? This guy.

CashmoneyDrew
06-28-2010, 08:08 PM
http://www.helixelite.com/images/athletes/ahmard.jpg

YAYareaRB
06-28-2010, 08:09 PM
Please tell me Takeo Spikes was AT LEAST thought of

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 08:15 PM
Please tell me Takeo Spikes was AT LEAST thought of

He was absolutely thought of. I mentioned earlier that if I took Kawika off the list, I'd replace him with Takeo Spikes.

The reason why Takeo wasn't on the list is bc one of my premises of this list was to find guys who we don't mention as elite, yet still play at an elite level.

Spikes is underrated on here, he does a much better job than given credit for, but giving him the elite tag is a bit of a stretch. You can say the same for some other guys I have on this list, but Spikes isn't anywhere near elite at this point in his career. He's simply underrated.

Kawika Mitchell isn't elite either, but he's closer to it than Spikes. The hard part of this list was finding guys who were underrated on here yet still play at an elite level. That was more difficult than I initially thought bc as I went through the list of guys I had in my head, i realized that most get the recognition they deserve on here.

So there are some fluff guys in there to fill gaps. But I tried staying as true to my criteria as I could.

bored of education
06-28-2010, 08:25 PM
So, I hope everyone left Brandon Flowers of their lists since he is a top 8-10 CB in the game. One of the best completion %'s against(top 20) (lowest i mean), one of the best giving up 1st down percentages, one of the lowest yards per pass against, 5 ints last year with a team with such an abysmalllllllll pass rush and had abysmalll help ove the top last year. I would be shocked if he has less than 8 ints this year, that if people throw his way.

critesy
06-28-2010, 08:25 PM
james farrior?!?! the dude is slow and takes the worst angles. (yes im exaggerating but he does not deserve to be here.)

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 08:29 PM
So, I hope everyone left Brandon Flowers of their lists since he is a top 8-10 CB in the game. One of the best completion %'s against(top 20) (lowest i mean), one of the best giving up 1st down percentages, one of the lowest yards per pass against, 5 ints last year with a team with such an abysmalllllllll pass rush and had abysmalll help ove the top last year. I would be shocked if he has less than 8 ints this year, that if people throw his way.

Everyone and their mom mentions Brandon Flowers in every CB discussion on this forum we've had for the past 2 years.

He doesn't qualify for that reason.

james farrior?!?! the dude is slow and takes the worst angles. (yes im exaggerating but he does not deserve to be here.)

He's getting a bit long in the tooth but he's got it. Last year as a whole was an odd year for the Steelers defense. It's like they all fell apart when Troy got hurt.

Farrior has been one of the best 3-4 ILBs in the game for the past 4 years or so honestly, we just never mention him bc we have a hard on for guys like Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis.

And rightfully so, but often times we forget about the less flashy guys. Farrior gets it in. He's been getting it in for awhile. Just wanted to throw him a head nod.

YAYareaRB
06-28-2010, 08:29 PM
fwiw.. I think Spikes>Farrior at this point

TACKLE
06-28-2010, 08:29 PM
So, I hope everyone left Brandon Flowers of their lists since he is a top 8-10 CB in the game. One of the best completion %'s against(top 20) (lowest i mean), one of the best giving up 1st down percentages, one of the lowest yards per pass against, 5 ints last year with a team with such an abysmalllllllll pass rush and had abysmalll help ove the top last year. I would be shocked if he has less than 8 ints this year, that if people throw his way.

Not to mention he also one of the best tackling corners in the league.

bored of education
06-28-2010, 08:30 PM
sorry BBD :) i just wated to make sure people knew that greatnes that is and the man that will be a top 5 CB in the game after this year

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 08:33 PM
sorry BBD :) i just wated to make sure people knew that greatnes that is and the man that will be a top 5 CB in the game after this year

no doubt. I love me some Brandon Flowers.

fwiw.. I think Spikes>Farrior at this point

I think we're shortchanging Farrior. Let's see what happens this year, I feel confident he outplays Spikes.

Farrior has a year or 2 left before he's put out to pasture.

LonghornsLegend
06-28-2010, 08:49 PM
Everyone and their mom mentions Brandon Flowers in every CB discussion on this forum we've had for the past 2 years.

He doesn't qualify for that reason.



Exactly, lol everyone knows Flowers is good already. That wouldn't of been a bad draft to take 2 CB's actually. I would of killed myself if we ended up taking Cason over Jenkins or Flowers.


I also love Jason Jones of the Titans as severely underrated, I had been saying it since last off-season and he's still an animal when he plays and doesn't really get alot of recognition for it. He's bound to have a serious breakout sooner or later to become a household name, but I love everything about his game, and he catches my eye whenever I see the Titans play.

TitanHope
06-28-2010, 09:13 PM
JJ is a beast, and if he could stay healthy, he'd be looked at as a Top 5 pass-rushing DT in the league.

But his teammate DT Tony Brown is just as under-rated to me, if not more. I think many people think he was a product of playing beside Haynesworth, but last year he proved that he was a very good DT in his own right - even got voted as a Pro Bowl alternate (for whatever that's worth, but it's not like Brown is gonna win a popularity contest).

RealityCheck
06-28-2010, 09:21 PM
http://blog.masslive.com/sports_impact/2008/12/large_Patriots%20Meriweather%20_Hobb.jpg

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 09:21 PM
Here's my issue with Jason Jones:

He's not elite enough of a pass rusher to be a full time LE, and he's not big enough to be a full time UT.

He's like one of those tweeners that is great in situational packages, I just don't like him as a 3 down player at a singular position. He's a guy that needs to move around to succeed.

I like him as a base LE on first and 2nd down, and as a UT on 3rd down. He's a solid solid player, and I like him in that role, it's just that he's not good enough to be considered a full time DE or UT to me.

He reminds me of Raheem Brock.

TitanHope
06-28-2010, 09:35 PM
BBD, Jones is around 290 lbs. and has never started at LE in the NFL. He takes 99.9% of his snaps at DT, and he rarely kicks outside like they did with Haynesworth. I think 290 is big enough to be an every down UT in a 1-Gap DL for a Cover 2 DEF.

bigbluedefense
06-28-2010, 09:39 PM
BBD, Jones is around 290 lbs. and has never started at LE in the NFL. He takes 99% of his snaps at DT, and he rarely kicks outside unless like they did with Haynesworth. I think 290 is big enough to be an every down UT in a 1-Gap DL for a Cover 2 DEF.

Jones is a solid 280 i thought? Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else? I know there's a tweener on the Titans that plays both positions? I was almost positive it was Jason Jones.

I haven't watched many Titan games this year. Well, I have, I saw a good 6 to 7 games, but I honestly never really focused on the defense extensively. I need to go back and watch them some more.

TitanHope
06-28-2010, 09:53 PM
He was 275ish when he entered the league. He was 280+ by the end of his rookie year. Truthfully, he's probably at 285 now, if you go about it chronologically. He said 290 is his weight goal so I'm expecting him to be at that weight this season. He's working out with the team now after having injury issues, so he may have gained/lost weight during that time. I'd say he's probably between 285-290 right now, or will be after getting in football shape after missing time. He's entering his 3rd season in the NFL, so I'd assume he's at his ideal weight or is at least close to it by now.

He looks smaller because he's 6'5+ and is lanky as hell. I think his arms are around like 36 inches. So he'll always look smaller than he really is. But JJ has struggled with injuries since his rookie season, so even if ya catch Titans games, there's no guarantee he'll be playing, lol.

There's no one on the Titans that play both DE and DT in a significant capacity. When AH was here, they'd mix things up by lining AH up at RE and KVB up at DT maybe one or two times a game. That was just one of those things where they'd break the huddle with the standard personnel, and then mix it up to surprise the offense. That's the extent of it. They don't really do that anymore after AH left, and now that KVB is gone, there's no one big enough to move inside (aside from maybe Dave Ball or Morgan if he's able to).

Most Titans fans would like to see JJ used in the role the Giants use Justin Tuck though. The guy's got so much potential and can really be used sooo creatively, but the Titans DEF has always been vanilla during the Schwartz/Cecil era.

DoughBoy
06-28-2010, 10:25 PM
Jones is a solid 280 i thought? Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else? I know there's a tweener on the Titans that plays both positions? I was almost positive it was Jason Jones.

I haven't watched many Titan games this year. Well, I have, I saw a good 6 to 7 games, but I honestly never really focused on the defense extensively. I need to go back and watch them some more.

David Ball is the only player that has taken snaps at DE and DT since Albert Haynesworth left. Maybe your thinking of him?

wogitalia
06-28-2010, 10:46 PM
When I think underrated the first name that has come to mind since I started following is London Fletcher. Still doesn't get the recognition I think he deserves.

For the Vikes I think that Greenway is by far our most underrated player, mostly because I think the majority of our team is either accurately rated or even overrated or just no good. Leber has become a solid player over the last couple of years but he would still be one of the first guys I'd replace if I was in charge(ultimate backup though imo).

B-Dawk
06-28-2010, 10:47 PM
i know you've had a serious man-crush on kampman for some time, but with him coming off a bad 3-4 year and injury, i dont see him being underrated at all going into this season. In the past sure without a doubt but not this year.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 01:11 PM
I am so happy Ricky Williams is on this list. My favorite NFL player ever.

bigbluedefense
06-29-2010, 05:37 PM
I am so happy Ricky Williams is on this list. My favorite NFL player ever.

Ricky is a legit player on this list. He still has it. He's an incredible running back. If he was focused on football his whole career, he could have went down as one of the best ever, he's that talented.

Even now, after all the poundings, after the weight fluctuation and everything he's been through, the guy can flat out play. He's a hell of a running back, but we almost forgot how good he really is.

i know you've had a serious man-crush on kampman for some time, but with him coming off a bad 3-4 year and injury, i dont see him being underrated at all going into this season. In the past sure without a doubt but not this year.

He tore his ACL playing in space. I don't think his injury will effect him as much as a speed rusher bc he was never that kind of guy. He won't play in space, he never speed rushes, he's going to go back to being a strength bullrusher who uses great leverage to get after the qb. It will still effect him of course, but I don't think it will effect him as much as it would others.

I love me some Aaron Kampman. I think Jacksonville is slowly building a very good dline. I love the Alualhu (sp) pick as well.

David Ball is the only player that has taken snaps at DE and DT since Albert Haynesworth left. Maybe your thinking of him?

I honestly don't know. I'm going to have to go back and study that defense some more.

Bengals78
06-29-2010, 06:48 PM
Peko = teh sex. That is all.

Rivers is highly underrated among Bengals fans still. Especially on the official site. Mostly idiots who don't understand the role of a WILL backer in the traditional 4-3 we run.

Bengals78
06-29-2010, 06:48 PM
I am so happy Ricky Williams is on this list. My favorite NFL player ever.

I am shocked. Total shock and awe...

zachsaints52
06-29-2010, 10:04 PM
Noone doubts the Kirk and Karney mentions :)

Shiver
06-29-2010, 10:14 PM
Eh, actually Justin Blalock has been pretty underwhelming. Our selection of Mike Johnson was meant to send him a message and give the team a good starter if they choose to let Blalock walk next year.


Harvey Dahl on the other hand is exactly what you want from a guard: strong, tough, mean and nasty.

K Train
06-30-2010, 07:46 AM
james farrior is the slowest player on the steelers defense...hes been underrated his whole career but hes lost a few steps the past 2 seasons

Halsey
06-30-2010, 07:52 AM
I'd put Eli Manning as the most underrated QB over Schaub. If for no other reason than Schaub has a history of missing games while Eli has never missed a game.

Most fans will agree that Schaub is very good and underrated while many will say Eli is not that good. Well, that kind of backs up my point. When everyone agrees a guy is very good, he's not underrated, is he.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2010, 07:34 AM
I'd put Eli Manning as the most underrated QB over Schaub. If for no other reason than Schaub has a history of missing games while Eli has never missed a game.

Most fans will agree that Schaub is very good and underrated while many will say Eli is not that good. Well, that kind of backs up my point. When everyone agrees a guy is very good, he's not underrated, is he.

I purposely left Eli off the list bc I knew if I put him on there, it would take away from the rest of the list and we'd just turn this thread into a qb discussion.

Noone doubts the Kirk and Karney mentions :)

Not a Kirk Morrison fan. He can't stop the run. He'd be good with 2 big DTs in front of him, but he's just a poor man's Gary Brackett.

Karney is good, no doubt. But the Saints replaced him with Heath Evans and their run game improved. Heath is a better pass catcher too. Evans is more underrated than Karney is.

Eh, actually Justin Blalock has been pretty underwhelming. Our selection of Mike Johnson was meant to send him a message and give the team a good starter if they choose to let Blalock walk next year.


Harvey Dahl on the other hand is exactly what you want from a guard: strong, tough, mean and nasty.

Yeah, I guess I have to go back and watch more of that oline. Usually I focus on Baker bc i've been a big fan of his before the draft, but in 2 games Blalock stood out to me. But i guess 2 games is way too small of a sample size and i was wrong in this instance.


james farrior is the slowest player on the steelers defense...hes been underrated his whole career but hes lost a few steps the past 2 seasons

James Farrior was the glue that held that front 7 together last year. With injuries to Hampton, Smith, and Timmons struggling as an every down ILB particularly against the run, Farrior cleaned up a lot of the mess in the run game.

Farrior still has some left in the tank.

zachsaints52
07-01-2010, 01:31 PM
Not a Kirk Morrison fan. He can't stop the run. He'd be good with 2 big DTs in front of him, but he's just a poor man's Gary Brackett.

Karney is good, no doubt. But the Saints replaced him with Heath Evans and their run game improved. Heath is a better pass catcher too. Evans is more underrated than Karney is.

Morrison never had a good DT who could help keep blockers off of him, I would expect him to be amazing this year. The reason why the replaced Karney was because the ywanted a FB who can "do more things", which Evans can do, but they actually ran the ball alot more this year then the past two. I would look at Reggies rookie year and Deuces last couple to guage Karneys blocking abilities.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-01-2010, 01:39 PM
Morrison never had a good DT who could help keep blockers off of him, I would expect him to be amazing this year.

Does Jacksonville have those DT's?

I think Morrison is actually a tiny bit overrated if you want to talk about his production to date. Sure, he was great in 2007 when the Oakland defense was a little better suited to his game, but he still isn't and likely will never be a great run-plugger. He needs to be able to take a step back and use his speed to shoot the gap. He'll rarely blow up a blocker or fill a hole stoutly.

I've made many posts about Morrison's potential in a conducive scheme, and I do feel confident that in a defense that's a fit he could be great. He's a great leader, a great game-caller, and I think is one of the best middle linebackers in coverage in the whole NFL. He was just the opposite of what the Raiders need (something we all hope McClain fixes).

yourfavestoner
07-01-2010, 01:43 PM
Does Jacksonville have those DT's?

I think Morrison is actually a tiny bit overrated if you want to talk about his production to date. Sure, he was great in 2007 when the Oakland defense was a little better suited to his game, but he still isn't and likely will never be a great run-plugger. He needs to be able to take a step back and use his speed to shoot the gap. He'll rarely blow up a blocker or fill a hole stoutly.

I've made many posts about Morrison's potential in a conducive scheme, and I do feel confident that in a defense that's a fit he could be great. He's a great leader, a great game-caller, and I think is one of the best middle linebackers in coverage in the whole NFL. He was just the opposite of what the Raiders need (something we all hope McClain fixes).

Terrance Knighton is a stud at NT in Jax's Tampa Two scheme. We'll see what happens with Alualu and D'Anthony Smith at UT this year.

I'm excited to see what Morrison can do. His game is very similar to Mike Peterson's and Peterson was an absolute beast under Del Rio until age and injuries caught up to him.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-01-2010, 01:48 PM
I absolutely wish Morrison the best. He was a lifetime Raider fan and always worked his ass off for the team. It was sad to let him go, but there's no doubt that McClain brings more of what Oakland needs from their inside guy.

I think you guys got him for ridiculously cheap though.

Shahin
07-01-2010, 02:35 PM
Peko = teh sex. That is all.

Rivers is highly underrated among Bengals fans still. Especially on the official site. Mostly idiots who don't understand the role of a WILL backer in the traditional 4-3 we run.

i don't know about other teams, but the Bengals official site is full of the biggest ******* jerkoffs i could imagine.

Denver Bronco56
07-01-2010, 04:43 PM
mlb=Dj Williams

Denver Bronco56
07-01-2010, 04:43 PM
mlb=Dj Williams

Timbathia
07-01-2010, 06:22 PM
the thread title specifically says 'underrated' not 'massively overrated in spite of rarely even being rated'.

It is always refreshing to see you constantly degrade your own players in a forum when the norm is for posters to take any opportunity to go down on their knees for their home team.

In this case you are definitely correct, though, as it has been years since DJ has played at a high level.

Denver Bronco56
07-03-2010, 12:28 PM
I dont see how you can say DJ isnt underated he has asked to play 4 different positions and has excelled at all of them and is actually a very good fit for the joker mlb in the 3-4

Da Big Harv
07-04-2010, 06:34 PM
he's been an absolutely atrocious MLB for the entirety of the time he's played the spot. his first step is ALWAYS backwards, and the vast majority of the tackles he makes are 4-5 yards beyond the LOS. i went through all of this a year or two ago on the broncos board, but i don't really want to search for it again.

he had one ok year at SLB, then a couple of mediocre years (as he was playing out of position to accommodate fricking boss bailey), and was terrific at WLB.

he's easily in my bottom 10 for starting MLBers in the NFL right now.

EAR MUFFFFFFFS !!!! I'm a Miami fan and loved him in college and don't want to hear that he sucks now lol

TACKLE
07-04-2010, 06:36 PM
he's been an absolutely atrocious MLB for the entirety of the time he's played the spot. his first step is ALWAYS backwards, and the vast majority of the tackles he makes are 4-5 yards beyond the LOS. i went through all of this a year or two ago on the broncos board, but i don't really want to search for it again.

he had one ok year at SLB, then a couple of mediocre years (as he was playing out of position to accommodate fricking boss bailey), and was terrific at WLB.

he's easily in my bottom 10 for starting MLBers in the NFL right now.

DJ Williams never belonged in a 3-4. He's a pure 4-3 WLB.

descendency
07-04-2010, 06:53 PM
Meriweather is a prototypical safety. The Patriots use what you could call interchangeable safeties.

zachsaints52
07-04-2010, 07:17 PM
absolutely, 100% agree. i *loved* him at WLB.

I *love* reading your post :)

And yes, Knighton and Alualu/Smith in front of Morrison will definately help him out. He is a very good leader on and off the field, and he is very good in coverage. Now that he has some help up front he willraise some eyebrows.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2010, 11:48 AM
I've decided I'm changing Kawika Mitchell with Takeo Spikes.

After looking at more games of the 49ers, I'm seriously considering adding Ahmad Brooks to the fold, but it would be way too early to throw his name out.

But I think Ahmad Brooks found a home at OLB in a 3-4. The guy is finally getting it, and if he can grow from last season and become the pass rusher I think he's capable of becoming...watch out. This guy really caught my eye when he was on the field.

Ahmad Brooks guys. Keep an eye on him. I really think he can be one of the bigger break out players this upcoming year if he puts it all together.

K Train
07-06-2010, 11:53 AM
James Farrior was the glue that held that front 7 together last year. With injuries to Hampton, Smith, and Timmons struggling as an every down ILB particularly against the run, Farrior cleaned up a lot of the mess in the run game.

Farrior still has some left in the tank.

farrior was terrible in every aspect of the game except the run. awful in coverage, an awful pass rusher. keyaron fox was very good next to him when timmons was out of the game. the steelers need to get ready to move on without farrior because last year was his clear decline year after several years of putting together impressive seasons showing he "had some left in the tank"...the tank is running very low at this point

bigbluedefense
07-06-2010, 11:58 AM
farrior was terrible in every aspect of the game except the run. awful in coverage, an awful pass rusher. keyaron fox was very good next to him when timmons was out of the game. the steelers need to get ready to move on without farrior because last year was his clear decline year after several years of putting together impressive seasons showing he "had some left in the tank"...the tank is running very low at this point

That entire back 7 looked awful in pass coverage last year. I think it was a combination of LeBeau's playcalling (he relied on his OLBs a little too much last year to generate pressure, which is uncharacteristic of him) and Troy's injury really hurt that pass coverage.

Farrior's job is to be the thumper. When Troy went down, you saw a lot of players decline bc of what Troy does for that defense. Farrior had to cover more, and it stuck out on tape.

But when you look at what he did for your run defense last year, I thought he played admirably.

BaLLiN
07-06-2010, 12:08 PM
idk about you guys but we dont have enough adrian wilson lovin' (Arizona Cardinals safety) he's a freaking beast

bigbluedefense
07-06-2010, 12:16 PM
idk about you guys but we dont have enough adrian wilson lovin' (Arizona Cardinals safety) he's a freaking beast

He gets mentioned on here a lot more than Jackson or Merriweather. And quite honestly, I rather have both Merriweather and Jackson over Wilson.

Rosebud
07-06-2010, 01:08 PM
I'm glad you've finally warmed up to Peko BBD. I remember a year, or was it two?, ago that I was talking up the Bengals D and Peko in particular in our team thread and no one understood just how beastly he is. Him and Knighton are my two favorite 4-3 NTs right now, although hopefully Linval Joseph can put together his tools and intangibles and join them in time.

My homer pick for an all-under-rated team would be Corey Webster since web is still one of the league's best press-man corners when he's not facing a tree like Vjax that can just overpower him and out-leap him, kinda like Sheldon Brown has been for the iggles. I know he had a few bad games and was injured this year but he's still got the talent.

My non-homer pick would be Jay Cutler since a) Matt Schaub is closer to being over-rated on this board than under-rated and b) JC has gone from Golden Boy to Turd Sickle according to this board just because of one bad year on a new team, in a new scheme with a bad OL, no running game and a bunch of young and inconsistent WRs. In a couple of years I think that the Bears will have one hell of an offense as they'll hopefully replace Lovie, fill out that OL and find a #1 receiver.

Bengals78
07-06-2010, 01:17 PM
Most underrated DT in the league
http://www.bengals.com/assets/clubimages/articles/2009/peko090609_440.jpg

bigbluedefense
07-06-2010, 01:33 PM
I'm glad you've finally warmed up to Peko BBD. I remember a year, or was it two?, ago that I was talking up the Bengals D and Peko in particular in our team thread and no one understood just how beastly he is. Him and Knighton are my two favorite 4-3 NTs right now, although hopefully Linval Joseph can put together his tools and intangibles and join them in time.

My homer pick for an all-under-rated team would be Corey Webster since web is still one of the league's best press-man corners when he's not facing a tree like Vjax that can just overpower him and out-leap him, kinda like Sheldon Brown has been for the iggles. I know he had a few bad games and was injured this year but he's still got the talent.

My non-homer pick would be Jay Cutler since a) Matt Schaub is closer to being over-rated on this board than under-rated and b) JC has gone from Golden Boy to Turd Sickle according to this board just because of one bad year on a new team, in a new scheme with a bad OL, no running game and a bunch of young and inconsistent WRs. In a couple of years I think that the Bears will have one hell of an offense as they'll hopefully replace Lovie, fill out that OL and find a #1 receiver.

I've been a Peko fan since 08. You got me up on him, and after watching him against the Giants in 08, I was sold.

Corey isn't a guy I'd mention. First and foremost, I see him having a down year this year. We're gonna run a lot of off zone coverage, and Corey has shown he struggles in that role. He's a stud as a press man CB, but in this new system where he has to play off coverage, I see him struggling.

And we've talked him up quite a bit the past 2 years anyway.

Cutler is a guy I considered. The problem is, that INT total was just waaaaaaaay too high for my liking. And when you study him, you see he stares down his targets way too much and takes waaaay too many risks with the ball. He gets by on his arm way too much. I'm a big Cutler fan, and he's one of my favorite qbs in the league, but i'm not ready to call him underrated just yet.

TACKLE
07-06-2010, 04:35 PM
Most underrated DT in the league
http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/TBA+v+Tennessee+Titans+FMrhcCDKL0zl.jpg

Fixed it for you. (Peko is still really underrated)

Rosebud
07-06-2010, 05:27 PM
I've been a Peko fan since 08. You got me up on him, and after watching him against the Giants in 08, I was sold.

Corey isn't a guy I'd mention. First and foremost, I see him having a down year this year. We're gonna run a lot of off zone coverage, and Corey has shown he struggles in that role. He's a stud as a press man CB, but in this new system where he has to play off coverage, I see him struggling.

And we've talked him up quite a bit the past 2 years anyway.

Cutler is a guy I considered. The problem is, that INT total was just waaaaaaaay too high for my liking. And when you study him, you see he stares down his targets way too much and takes waaaay too many risks with the ball. He gets by on his arm way too much. I'm a big Cutler fan, and he's one of my favorite qbs in the league, but i'm not ready to call him underrated just yet.

I'm gunna assume that Corey is going to be free to come up and press until I see otherwise. Fewell did a great job in buffalo of playing to his players' strengths and given how vastly superior Corey is in press-man I'm going to assume Fewell can see that to. I think he's actually going to have bounce back year.

As for JC he does have his issues, but the way he gets shat on you'd think he was Jamarcus Russell. Plus those picks are made so much worse by a couple of just ******* terrible games and that piss poor OL, which should be much better with Chris Williams starting the year off at LT.

Bengals78
07-06-2010, 05:32 PM
Fixed it for you. (Peko is still really underrated)

You mad
http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0395/4540/110415_feature.jpg

Mr. Goosemahn
07-06-2010, 05:50 PM
Farrior's job is to be the thumper.

Nope, Timmons is. Farrior is the mack, Timmons the buck. It was Larry Foote when he was a starter, and Timmons supplanted him (instead of switching Farrior), much to my frustration.

So, Timmons has to take on blockers while the clearly superior athlete in Farrior chases down the ball carrier and makes plays. He's been great for us for a while, but yeah, as K-Train said, he did start to decline last year. The clearest play that I remember was when he was asked to cover Ray Rice and looked extremely slow from the very beginning. Rice wasn't even touched by Farrior and it wound up being like a 40 yard run.

If Timmons were playing the mack, he'd make the Pro Bowl this upcoming year. And he should be the mack, as he's the only one on the roster. Foote and Fox are bucks, and Farrior isn't really a mack anymore.

When Troy went down, you saw a lot of players decline bc of what Troy does for that defense. Farrior had to cover more, and it stuck out on tape.

But when you look at what he did for your run defense last year, I thought he played admirably.

Farrior played well vs. the run for the most part, but not much else. Quite frankly, I was pretty disappointed in him. And while everyone's play worsened after Troy went down, Farrior missed assignments where it was all on him. I don't think we can rely on him covering TE's and RB's that much anymore. I insist, it's the perfect time to switch him to buck and let Timmons loose. Sure, Farrior's old, but I think it'd be easier for him to catch up to FB's and O-linemen than to RB's.

edit: Here it is, I was looking for it. A breakdown of how the Steelers ILB's work, and why Timmons hasn't been as great a player (nice way of saying he's out of position) as he could be for us.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/3/23/1384521/making-sense-of-the-pittsburgh

bigbluedefense
07-06-2010, 06:03 PM
I'm gunna assume that Corey is going to be free to come up and press until I see otherwise. Fewell did a great job in buffalo of playing to his players' strengths and given how vastly superior Corey is in press-man I'm going to assume Fewell can see that to. I think he's actually going to have bounce back year.

As for JC he does have his issues, but the way he gets shat on you'd think he was Jamarcus Russell. Plus those picks are made so much worse by a couple of just ******* terrible games and that piss poor OL, which should be much better with Chris Williams starting the year off at LT.

I'm actually getting pretty tired of hearing how Fewell does a great job of adjusting to his players and getting the most out of his secondary, because quite frankly its not true.

The Bills drafted a bunch of talent in that secondary, thats why it was good, not because Fewell made them good. Let's not forget, Fewell held Greer back with his coverage schemes. He made Greer play zone, and once he got to NO and got to play press man, he was one of the best CBs in the league. Fewell held him back.

All this hoopla about how he had a great pass defense, thats only bc his run defense was so atrocious that nobody passed bc they ran all over that Buffalo defense.

Quite frankly, the more I study Buffalo's defense, and the more I learn about Fewell and read what he plans on doing in NY, the less impressed I am with him. We'll see if I'm wrong or not, but I don't like what Ive seen and read thus far.

I think he has potential to be a great DC given the talent he has in NY, and considering he never had that kind of talent in Buffalo, but if we're going off of his past, I see no reason to be excited. No one can seriously give me a credible reason that he's a great fit for us based off of his past accomplishments. They can only give us assumptions of what he'll do in the future given our talent.

But thats not a credible reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has to prove to me that he's legit before I hype him up. Call me a skeptic, but i'll believe it when i see it.

As for Cutler, that oline is still horrible, and now they have Mike Martz. Doesn't add up to me. Even if we give their WR core the benefit of the doubt, which I will because I think it will grow this year as a unit, that oline is still horrible and in that system, having a horrible oline is just gonna kill Cutler.

Plus you couple the fact that Martz has always been ok with his qb taking risks and throwing a couple of INTs in an attempt to make a big play, this doesn't sound like what JC needs to clean up his act.

Plus, they can't run the ball with any consistency and they have a guy who doesn't like running the ball anyway as OC now.

Plus they have a lameduck HC, a DC who doesn't know a thing about being a DC and is only DC bc they couldn't find anyone else willing to take the job, and a lame duck GM to go with all of this...

Those are awfully hard odds to overcome. I think Jay turns that team around eventually, just not this year.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2010, 06:05 PM
Nope, Timmons is. Farrior is the mack, Timmons the buck. It was Larry Foote when he was a starter, and Timmons supplanted him (instead of switching Farrior), much to my frustration.

So, Timmons has to take on blockers while the clearly superior athlete in Farrior chases down the ball carrier and makes plays. He's been great for us for a while, but yeah, as K-Train said, he did start to decline last year. The clearest play that I remember was when he was asked to cover Ray Rice and looked extremely slow from the very beginning. Rice wasn't even touched by Farrior and it wound up being like a 40 yard run.

If Timmons were playing the mack, he'd make the Pro Bowl this upcoming year. And he should be the mack, as he's the only one on the roster. Foote and Fox are bucks, and Farrior isn't really a mack anymore.



Farrior played well vs. the run for the most part, but not much else. Quite frankly, I was pretty disappointed in him. And while everyone's play worsened after Troy went down, Farrior missed assignments where it was all on him. I don't think we can rely on him covering TE's and RB's that much anymore. I insist, it's the perfect time to switch him to buck and let Timmons loose. Sure, Farrior's old, but I think it'd be easier for him to catch up to FB's and O-linemen than to RB's.

edit: Here it is, I was looking for it. A breakdown of how the Steelers ILB's work, and why Timmons hasn't been as great a player (nice way of saying he's out of position) as he could be for us.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/3/23/1384521/making-sense-of-the-pittsburgh

i'll check this out. thanks for the link.

tjsunstein
07-06-2010, 06:13 PM
I know we're probably way passed it but Ryan Grant gets little to no love. He's a solid 1200 yard back. He didn't overly impress anyone following his amazing 2007 second half only finding the endzone 4 times on the ground in '08 but he bounced back in '09 with 11 tds on the ground and bump his ypc average up half a yard.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2010, 06:15 PM
I know we're probably way passed it but Ryan Grant gets little to no love. He's a solid 1200 yard back. He didn't overly impress anyone following his amazing 2007 second half only finding the endzone 4 times on the ground in '08 but he bounced back in '09 with 11 tds on the ground and bump his ypc average up half a yard.

I like his leadership. I was watching the playoff game where he was mic'd up and he really impressed me with his leadership on the sidelines.

But quite honestly, RB is a position where you have only a select few elite players, then a boatload of average backs who can succeed in a good system and behind a good oline.

tjsunstein
07-06-2010, 06:17 PM
I like his leadership. I was watching the playoff game where he was mic'd up and he really impressed me with his leadership on the sidelines.

But quite honestly, RB is a position where you have only a select few elite players, then a boatload of average backs who can succeed in a good system and behind a good oline.
I just read the comments in the first post where it stated elite or near elite. I wouldn't call Grant that by any means but under appreciated, I will.