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View Full Version : Should the NFL change the eligibility for the Draft ?


dannyz
06-28-2010, 09:58 PM
The Eligibility Rule is you have to have just 3 Years of College Experience. Should the Rule be changed so that younger players could go to the Draft ? Look at players who are Physically,Mentally who are Freshmen or Sophomore should they have the right to go early ? Look at Trent Richardson a guy like him is ready. Discuss.

Brent
06-28-2010, 10:01 PM
no, it should remain where it is.

roscoesdad27
06-28-2010, 10:07 PM
if they're gonna repetively have us sit thru the national anthem and sing about the "land of the free" then yes they should change it....if a scientist or chemsist has what it takes to enter they're profession str8 out of high school there isnt nothing preventing a company from hiring them, why should football players be any different in a "free" country?

bce
06-28-2010, 10:11 PM
You cant have 18 year olds running around with grown men. Theyre going to get killed. Theyre a private business and in the land of the free we at least used to let private business make their own employment rules.

Its not basketball. theyre going to get slaughtered and theres no way at 18 yrs old they can compete so why bother.

The NFL is a mans game, not a teenagers game.

dannyz
06-28-2010, 10:13 PM
I am saying guys like Richardson,and Julio as a Freshmen they guys were ready.

roscoesdad27
06-28-2010, 10:15 PM
You cant have 18 year olds running around with grown men. Theyre going to get killed. Theyre a private business and in the land of the free we at least used to let private business make their own employment rules.

Its not basketball. theyre going to get slaughtered and theres no way at 18 yrs old they can compete so why bother.

The NFL is a mans game, not a teenagers game.

is it good for the game?....no
should it be allowed in a free country?....yes

Duffman57
06-28-2010, 10:17 PM
You cant have 18 year olds running around with grown men. Theyre going to get killed. Theyre a private business and in the land of the free we at least used to let private business make their own employment rules.

Its not basketball. theyre going to get slaughtered and theres no way at 18 yrs old they can compete so why bother.

The NFL is a mans game, not a teenagers game.

Pretty nuch what I was gonna say to a T. Maybe if they wanted to move the eligability back like a year then it would be fine, but I think they have the perfect idea already.

roscoesdad27
06-28-2010, 10:24 PM
Pretty nuch what I was gonna say to a T. Maybe if they wanted to move the eligability back like a year then it would be fine, but I think they have the perfect idea already.

i agree for the sake of the game but they shouldnt sing the national anthem before every game cause it contradicts the spirit of freedom...i as an owner in a free country should be allowed to employ anybody i want over the age of 18 just as i as an 18 year old citizen should'nt be prohibited from getting into my profession if i'm ready in an employers eye.

dannyz
06-28-2010, 10:25 PM
Well yeah Im sorry I did not mean like Freshmen who have not even played College like players who just finished their Freshmen Year. I think if they moved the year back one it would be good.

bce
06-28-2010, 10:27 PM
I am saying guys like Richardson,and Julio as a Freshmen they guys were ready.

Julio jones cant even get through a college season uninjured. A running back shelf life is a bout 7 years. then youre going to put an 18 year old out there and let him run into casey hampton all day. theres no way. they will not be competitive and they will not physically survive.

bce
06-28-2010, 10:29 PM
is it good for the game?....no
should it be allowed in a free country?....yes


What should be allowed is for the nfl to make their own employment rules. thats what happens in a free country.

The rules exist for a reason. They dont want 18 year olds who just graduated from high school who dont have the physical development to compete anyway to be riding off in ambulances.

Its a grown mans game. No 18 year old is going to come in and tear up the nfl. theres no lebron james of football.

Duffman57
06-28-2010, 10:32 PM
I am saying guys like Richardson,and Julio as a Freshmen they guys were ready.

But they are a very weird acception. There are maybe 1 or 2 guys at most every year that are ready like that. The problem is that for every one that is actually ready, we would be giving another 50 guys who are going to get absolutly murdered a free pass to get into the NFL, which would be a stupid mistake.

And as for the "free country" arrguement, if its such a free country then why can't we do most stuff until we are 18 and we can't drink till we're 21, and we can't drive till 16 etc etc. Its because most people are not ready to do those things. There are some people who are ready and mature enough to handle the responsibility of using Alcohol without abusing it, does that mean we should let everyone drink even when there are acceptions to the rule? Proally not.

Because most people aren't ready/developed enough to play in the NFL until around their Jr. year or Sr. year, thats when they set the deadline. They do whats best for the whole, not the individuals.

dannyz
06-28-2010, 10:36 PM
I am not saying kids who just got out of High School.

Abaddon
06-28-2010, 10:41 PM
The Eligibility Rule is you have to have just 3 Years of College Experience. Should the Rule be changed so that younger players could go to the Draft ? Look at players who are Physically,Mentally who are Freshmen or Sophomore should they have the right to go early ? Look at Trent Richardson a guy like him is ready. Discuss.

3 years out of high school, you mean. They don't actually have to have been in college for 3 years.

Abaddon
06-28-2010, 10:43 PM
Also, the "free country" argument is comedy gold.

bce
06-28-2010, 10:43 PM
But they are a very weird acception. There are maybe 1 or 2 guys at most every year that are ready like that. The problem is that for every one that is actually ready, we would be giving another 50 guys who are going to get absolutly murdered a free pass to get into the NFL, which would be a stupid mistake.

And as for the "free country" arrguement, if its such a free country then why can't we do most stuff until we are 18 and we can't drink till we're 21, and we can't drive till 16 etc etc. Its because most people are not ready to do those things. There are some people who are ready and mature enough to handle the responsibility of using Alcohol without abusing it, does that mean we should let everyone drink even when there are acceptions to the rule? Proally not.

Because most people aren't ready/developed enough to play in the NFL until around their Jr. year or Sr. year, thats when they set the deadline. They do whats best for the whole, not the individuals.


There are 0 high school players ready for the nfl. Then you sit them on the sideline and your sitting a guy on the sideline and paying him x million per year really having no clue, no basis by which to judge that player, all there is tape against high schoolers. We all know the difference between hs talent level and the nfl. Are you going to judge a prospect based on what they did against your 160 next door neighbors kid middle linebacker?

dannyz
06-28-2010, 10:55 PM
I am not talking about High School kids.

villagewarrior
06-29-2010, 02:12 AM
The NFL has every right to establish minimum ages for its employees. McDonalds cant go out and hire a 9 year old just because he flips burgers well. Because there are laws to protect children. The principle is the same that the NFL has adopted. Sure, maybe Trent Richardson was ready as a freshman (though I doubt it), but the vast majority of time college freshmen are not ready for the NFL. Players who played 4 years at major universities more often than not are not ready for the rigors of a full NFL season. The rule should remain as is.

AntoinCD
06-29-2010, 03:02 AM
I dont think the three years out of high school rule is in any way a bad thing. As was mentioned above 18yr old kids really should not be put in the same arena as NFL athletes. Firstly, they are not physically strong enough in general, and secondly the mental aspect of the game would be very hard to grasp for most teenagers.

The one thing I would maybe change is put an age limit on the rule. Amobi Okoye for example was eligible for the draft but was 19 when the Texans took him. I would put the age limit to 21 before you can play in the NFL because by that stage you should be fully developed both physically and mentally.

JHL6719
06-29-2010, 06:24 AM
Julio jones cant even get through a college season uninjured. A running back shelf life is a bout 7 years. then youre going to put an 18 year old out there and let him run into casey hampton all day. theres no way. they will not be competitive and they will not physically survive.




You've obviously never played organized football.... there's not a single player out there that lays it on the line every day in practice OR a game that isn't injured in some form or fashion....

Julio has NEVER missed a game...


Adrian Peterson was probably the most NFL ready freshman there's ever been..... he couldn't get through his sophomore or junior season without MISSING TIME due to injuries...


To answer the original question.... it should stay just the way it is..

Shane P. Hallam
06-29-2010, 06:38 AM
is it good for the game?....no
should it be allowed in a free country?....yes

I agree with Roscoe here.



As a fan of the NFL and college football, I don't think moving the eligibility would help them at all. That being said, if an 18 year old can prove he is ready to play and an NFL team wants to take the chance on him, they should get that choice.

Moving eligibility back doesn't mean that teams HAVE to take these players. They still have a choice, just as the players do to declare. I think it is fair that if a kid coming out of high school thinks he can make it in the NFL, he can take the chance and do it. Maybe he fails because he is too young or a team won't take him because he is too young, but it is his choice.

Now, this would water down college football as it has basketball, so I don't particularly want it to happen (and it won't,) as having guys playing at the college level for three years is exciting and makes that game great, just a matter of opinion.

AntoinCD
06-29-2010, 07:07 AM
I think if you offered the chance to most elite high school players to go straight to the NFL then they would probably take it. However, unlike basketball they would take a consistent pounding that they realistically wouldnt be ready for.

It would be interesting to see how things worked out in the draft though, for example

2008 NFL Draft:

No WR was taken in the 1st round but this was the year Julio Jones, AJ Green etc finished high school. On potential, Julio Jones would probably have been selected in the top 5 based as it wasn't a great draft. Now after 3 years of college Julio may sneak in to the top 10 if he performs at a high level this year.

Terelle Pryor may have been selected 1st overall in what was a poor class. After three years of college now he may struggle greatly to be drafted in the 1st round.

I think, once again, unlike basketball, few players can come in and produce as a rookie out of college let alone out of high school.

It would also have a big effect on late round players/UDFA as there would be a bigger pool of players that need to be whittled down to make the 53 man roster, meaning some great UDFAs of the past wouldnt have had their chance due to teams keeping young players with potential waiting on them to develop.

Realistically I dont see this changing, now or in the future, because there are so many parties who would be against it.

NFL Teams-especially if no real rookie salary cap is brought in. Teams are reluctant to pay top salaries to 24yr old QBs with 4yrs experience in college let alone an 18yr old out of high school.

Medical/Doctors-With the big issue of concussions and lingering effects etc I think a big deal would be made of the fact a lot of these players are not fully developed physically.

NFLPA-As of now there are only so many roster spots for players and adding any player out of high school would only reduce the limits of the salary for proven veterans.

Colleges/Conferences-With the amount of money major college programs and each individual conference bring in through TV revenue there is no chance they would be happy with this. Many people prefer college football to the NFL and by reducing the talent levels this would completely dwindle viewing figures.

FUNBUNCHER
06-29-2010, 07:17 AM
There's no farm team in the NFL; if you don't make the 53 man roster, either you better hope you get on the practice squad or stashed on IR.

Even if a kid 20 years old can physically play the game, and IMO the only players with a chance are the skill position guys , ( no lineman I believe is pro ready at that age), from a knowledge and game rep standpoint, I'd say most prospects entering after their sophomore year would fail at the jump.

The thing about college football that's critical is that it gives players repetitions in crucial game situations, it's not like you can go play a pick-up 11-on-11 football game in pads.

Julio Jones has a pro body, buy in every other sense of the word he was not ready to be a good pro last year. There are still rough spots in his game, mainly his route running and understanding defensive coverages, that he had a 50-50 shot of being cut as a rookie.

Not the most brilliant idea to make true sophomores draft eligible.

wicket
06-29-2010, 07:39 AM
should not happen, you achieve a few things, players will be drafted just for potential and when they bust they have no education to back them so they wont even have much of a future left.

MLB has a farm system and NBA has places to go + takes way less time to adapt

wonderbredd24
06-29-2010, 08:03 AM
The current system in the NFL is perfect... it keeps both the NFL and College games happy and healthy in terms of talent and competition.

The NFL should be allowed to allow players in however it wants... the idea that in a free country, that shouldn't happen is hilarious, not only because you'd be forcing a business to change how it runs, but this is also a country where a person needs to be 25 to run for the House, 30 for the Senate, and 35 for the Presidency, so age restrictions are hardly unprecedented.

Razor
06-29-2010, 08:37 AM
The current system in the NFL is perfect... it keeps both the NFL and College games happy and healthy in terms of talent and competition.

The NFL should be allowed to allow players in however it wants... the idea that in a free country, that shouldn't happen is hilarious, not only because you'd be forcing a business to change how it runs, but this is also a country where a person needs to be 25 to run for the House, 30 for the Senate, and 35 for the Presidency, so age restrictions are hardly unprecedented.

And 21 to drink alcohol! WTH is up with that?! Glad I don't live there, when I grew we only had to be 15 to drink alcohol (legally). the limit is now 16 years, so I guess the puritans won that battle. :( The same thing goes with sex.. Damn puritans.

Sniper
06-29-2010, 09:15 AM
2008
On potential, Julio Jones would probably have been selected in the top 5 based as it wasn't a great draft.

Terelle Pryor may have been selected 1st overall in what was a poor class.

sGz3uyCNZCM

YAYareaRB
06-29-2010, 09:47 AM
hahahaha that ari clip never gets old

Bengals78
06-29-2010, 09:53 AM
Its a free country. Kids outta middle school should be eligible.
Bitches be soft.

/sarcasm

Texas Homer
06-29-2010, 09:57 AM
I like the rule the way it is.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 10:40 AM
What should be allowed is for the nfl to make their own employment rules. thats what happens in a free country.

The rules exist for a reason. They dont want 18 year olds who just graduated from high school who dont have the physical development to compete anyway to be riding off in ambulances.

Its a grown mans game. No 18 year old is going to come in and tear up the nfl. theres no lebron james of football.

Just because an 18 year old is eligible, doesn't mean a team has to be stupid enough to take him.

I think they absolutely should be able to declare for the draft, knowing that doing so ends the rest of their college eligibility.

I'm not turning my nose up at a free education worth tens of thousands of dollars, but let's face it. A lot of these guys aren't students, and have no intentions of being students. The problem with football is that these guys have literally no options other than going to a university (I know, soooo terrible). But I'm just trying to be a realist. We've seen what the one-and-done rule has impacted college basketball. But at least those guys have the option of going and playing professional basketball in Europe (a la Brandon Jennings) for a year before going into the NBA. And I think you're going to see a lot more guys start doing that, especially big men - since there is absolutely no coaching, no development, NOTHING to develop big men in NCAA basketball.

So until there's a legit developmental league or something, we're kinda stuck with the situation. It's not perfect, but it's worked so far. But I still think these guys should have the OPTION to declare for the draft. Like I said, they'd be doing it knowing that they'd be forfeiting any college eligibility they had. And I don't see what would necessarily be wrong with a team selecting a super-talented 18 year old, and throwing his ass in the weight room for a few years before you even think about giving him any action in a real game situation. NFL practices are so light these days that it's almost a joke, so that wouldn't matter at all.

Shane P. Hallam
06-29-2010, 11:26 AM
I think if you offered the chance to most elite high school players to go straight to the NFL then they would probably take it. However, unlike basketball they would take a consistent pounding that they realistically wouldnt be ready for.

It would be interesting to see how things worked out in the draft though, for example

2008 NFL Draft:

No WR was taken in the 1st round but this was the year Julio Jones, AJ Green etc finished high school. On potential, Julio Jones would probably have been selected in the top 5 based as it wasn't a great draft. Now after 3 years of college Julio may sneak in to the top 10 if he performs at a high level this year.

Terelle Pryor may have been selected 1st overall in what was a poor class. After three years of college now he may struggle greatly to be drafted in the 1st round.


No, no, and no. NFL teams wouldn't have spent a top 5 pick on Pryor, or Jones, or anyone coming out of HS for that matter. The physicality, as you mentioned, is much different within those few years. Teams aren't quite that dumb in the NFL, and as mentioned, the contact would stop that. To be honest, if the declarations changed, I think NFL teams would be unwilling to change much and take kids straight out of HS early, and I also think most kids would go to college for a year or two despite the talent level for this reason.

LizardState
06-29-2010, 11:29 AM
Letting sophs & younger players enter the NFL would make a complete mockery of the concept of Student Athlete.

It's pretty much a joke anymore anyway, except at a few places like the service academies, Stanford, etc.

BaLLiN
06-29-2010, 12:20 PM
The only guy who could've made that transition (and its also a big IF as well) is adrian peterson of the vikings. He was a beast in HS, but still, theres no one else that comes to mind that could.

AntoinCD
06-29-2010, 12:23 PM
No, no, and no. NFL teams wouldn't have spent a top 5 pick on Pryor, or Jones, or anyone coming out of HS for that matter. The physicality, as you mentioned, is much different within those few years. Teams aren't quite that dumb in the NFL, and as mentioned, the contact would stop that. To be honest, if the declarations changed, I think NFL teams would be unwilling to change much and take kids straight out of HS early, and I also think most kids would go to college for a year or two despite the talent level for this reason.

I agree that most teams aren't that dumb but it only takes one and most of the teams who could be placed in the 'dumb' bracket end up at the top of the draft.

I do think though that if teams didn't take kids straight out of high school high in the draft it would then limit the amount who would potentially think of declaring at that level

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 12:26 PM
The only guy who could've made that transition (and its also a big IF as well) is adrian peterson of the vikings. He was a beast in HS, but still, theres no one else that comes to mind that could.

I don't necessarily agree with this line of thinking. Since so few players make an early impact anyways, I'm not sure it wouldn't be more beneficial to essentially be a practice squad player and develop for three years under NFL tutelage and with a professional strength and conditioning program as opposed to playing three years in college, and then going through another transitional period once you enter the league.

BaLLiN
06-29-2010, 12:38 PM
I don't necessarily agree with this line of thinking. Since so few players make an early impact anyways, I'm not sure it wouldn't be more beneficial to essentially be a practice squad player and develop for three years under NFL tutelage and with a professional strength and conditioning program as opposed to playing three years in college, and then going through another transitional period once you enter the league.

that much money at an early age is a horrible idea, but i can see where your going with this, and it makes sense. But then they'd be playing players with far more experience than them. I could see it working, but with college providing a preparatory level i feel that its much more efficient.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 01:07 PM
that much money at an early age is a horrible idea, but i can see where your going with this, and it makes sense. But then they'd be playing players with far more experience than them. I could see it working, but with college providing a preparatory level i feel that its much more efficient.

That's the key to this argument. I don't think that it's so much that they're not ready for the pros from a physical standpoint. It's more of an emotional/maturity issue.

The thing is, is that I don't think NFL teams would be dumb enough to pick an 18 year old kid with the top 10 picks of the draft. However, I don't think you'd hurt the chances of success of an uber-talented youngster if he's selected, say, in the fourth round. He's got some money to live off of (though not a lot, by any means), and the early parts of his career would be spent on developing an NFL body and developing NFL skills.

Take a guy like Percy Harvin for example. He was easily the most talented player on the Gators from the moment he stepped on the field as a skinny 175 lb true freshman. Other than bulking up to about 190, did he really gain any NFL skills at Florida, playing in a gimmicky offense that had him splitting time between RB and WR and not returning kicks or punts? Think if he had spent two or three years as a developmental guy at the bottom of the Vikings depth chart, developing an NFL body and NFL skills instead of taking option pitches from Tim Tebow for three years.

FUNBUNCHER
06-29-2010, 03:55 PM
Um, I'm from Va, and Harvin was MUCH bigger than 175# as a HS senior.
185 - 190 seems about right, but he did get stronger in his upper body.

Look at him when the Gators won the NC his frosh year, that's the same physique he basically has right now, maybe a 5 -10 pound difference, if that.

SO many kids are labeled 'great' coming out of HS and bust hard in college that I can't see a pro team selecting a guy before he finished his freshman year of college.

The NFL and the NCAA have the ideal system for both; college needs its superstars for at least 3 years, and at the end of 3 years, the great players are ready to play in the NFL.

bce
06-29-2010, 06:05 PM
Its a free country. Kids outta middle school should be eligible.
Bitches be soft.

/sarcasm


and the nfl has the right as an employer to make their own rules not be forced to hire 18 year old cannon fodder.

bce
06-29-2010, 06:06 PM
That's the key to this argument. I don't think that it's so much that they're not ready for the pros from a physical standpoint. It's more of an emotional/maturity issue.

The thing is, is that I don't think NFL teams would be dumb enough to pick an 18 year old kid with the top 10 picks of the draft. However, I don't think you'd hurt the chances of success of an uber-talented youngster if he's selected, say, in the fourth round. He's got some money to live off of (though not a lot, by any means), and the early parts of his career would be spent on developing an NFL body and developing NFL skills.

Take a guy like Percy Harvin for example. He was easily the most talented player on the Gators from the moment he stepped on the field as a skinny 175 lb true freshman. Other than bulking up to about 190, did he really gain any NFL skills at Florida, playing in a gimmicky offense that had him splitting time between RB and WR and not returning kicks or punts? Think if he had spent two or three years as a developmental guy at the bottom of the Vikings depth chart, developing an NFL body and NFL skills instead of taking option pitches from Tim Tebow for three years.


Percy harvin has never made it uninjured through any season of his entire career. he would be in a wheelchair by now had he been in the nfl at 18.

RealityCheck
06-29-2010, 06:08 PM
Hell yeah they should.

If you can play pro baseball, pro basketball, pro soccer and even serve your country in the Army at age 18 or maybe even less, why can't you play pro football at age 20?

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 06:10 PM
and the nfl has the right as an employer to make their own rules not be forced to hire 18 year old cannon fodder.

Just because they're eligible, doesn't mean a team would be forced to draft them. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand.

Percy harvin has never made it uninjured through any season of his entire career. he would be in a wheelchair by now had he been in the nfl at 18.

You just might have the worst reading comprehension skills of anyone I've ever come across. Congratulations. You missed the entire point of my post, which was that no team would be dumb enough to play an 18 year old in a real game situation. He would essentially be a practice squad player while developing.

I'm not ready and willing to be beat to death by your factzzz and pudding.

dannyz
06-29-2010, 06:16 PM
I am saying a player who just finished his Freshmen Year would be the limit. You would have to atleast play your Freshmen Year to go to the NFL.

bce
06-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Hell yeah they should.

If you can play pro baseball, pro basketball, pro soccer and even serve your country in the Army at age 18 or maybe even less, why can't you play pro football at age 20?


You can, when youre three years removed from graduating high school.

Its a collision sport. Soccer and baseball are non contact sports. Youre not allowed to "touch" anyone let alone hit them

bce
06-29-2010, 06:21 PM
Just because they're eligible, doesn't mean a team would be forced to draft them. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand.



You just might have the worst reading comprehension skills of anyone I've ever come across. Congratulations. You missed the entire point of my post, which was that no team would be dumb enough to play an 18 year old in a real game situation. He would essentially be a practice squad player while developing.

I'm not ready and willing to be beat to death by your factzzz and pudding.


Its a simple issue of safety.

Keep stepping to me and ill have to do it.

wonderbredd24
06-29-2010, 06:22 PM
I coach high school kids... I've seen more than a few college kids up and the pros

The leap, physically, from high school to college is enormous unto itself. The leap from high school to the pros is insane.

The number of guys who could physically make that jump is a very short list including basically Herschel Walker and that's just about it.

People look at heights and weights and see they don't change much, but a guy like Percy Harvin was getting Florida nutrition and Florida trainers for 3 years before going pro, so he was definitely a different person between high school and draft day.

RealityCheck
06-29-2010, 06:24 PM
Its a collision sport. Soccer and baseball are non contact sports. Youre not allowed to "touch" anyone let alone hit them
I don't care if it's a collision sport. It's the same sport they have played at high school, and it's the same sport they've been playing at college. Just at a higher competition level.

So let's do like the MLB: You can draft freshmen, but let them sit a year or two on the minors (in this case, the PS).

wonderbredd24
06-29-2010, 06:26 PM
I don't care if it's a collision sport. It's the same sport they have played at high school, and it's the same sport they've been playing at college. Just at a higher competition level.

It is not the same sport... this is an absolute joke.

An 18 year old kid in the NFL will straight up die... that's the end of the conversation.

Shane P. Hallam
06-29-2010, 06:27 PM
It is not the same sport... this is an absolute joke.

An 18 year old kid in the NFL will straight up die... that's the end of the conversation.

I don't think anyone is arguing that wonder. We are just saying, it is up to the 18 year old the path they want to take, and then up to the individual teams (employers,) what requirements they want.

Scotty D
06-29-2010, 06:30 PM
If you are 1-2 years out of high school you can apply to an "advisory board" to be allowed to enter the draft. Former GMs and respected football people could sit on the board. Something to think about? Or no?

wonderbredd24
06-29-2010, 06:31 PM
I don't think anyone is arguing that wonder. We are just saying, it is up to the 18 year old the path they want to take, and then up to the individual teams (employers,) what requirements they want.

The problem is people are arguing it as a rights issue... the NFL can do whatever it wants and it does and the result is a fantastic product for both the pro's and college. Why would anyone want to mess with that?

If anything, someone needs to somehow come up with an effective minor league alternative to college, but that would be an incredibly difficult task.

If the NFL wants to make an age limit of 40, there's no reason they should not be able to do so. 3 years post high school is a fantastic rule and makes the Draft great. The NBA draft is absolute garbage.

bce
06-29-2010, 06:31 PM
I don't care if it's a collision sport. It's the same sport they have played at high school, and it's the same sport they've been playing at college. Just at a higher competition level.

So let's do like the MLB: You can draft freshmen, but let them sit a year or two on the minors (in this case, the PS).

Its not anywhere near the same sport. Not even close. My next door neighbors kid is a pretty good 175 lb middle linebacker. The concept is the same. The physical nature of the game and the athleticism of all the players not just a chosen few is the difference

Shane P. Hallam
06-29-2010, 06:33 PM
The problem is people are arguing it as a rights issue... the NFL can do whatever it wants and it does and the result is a fantastic product for both the pro's and college. Why would anyone want to mess with that?

If anything, someone needs to somehow come up with an effective minor league alternative to college, but that would be an incredibly difficult task.

If the NFL wants to make an age limit of 40, there's no reason they should not be able to do so. 3 years post high school is a fantastic rule and makes the Draft great. The NBA draft is absolute garbage.

The argument here is WHO should make the rules. the NFL or the individual teams? Personally, I think the product is the best it can be and hope it doesn't change. That being said, I think teams should have the right to decide their requirements for their team.

wonderbredd24
06-29-2010, 06:37 PM
The argument here is WHO should make the rules. the NFL or the individual teams? Personally, I think the product is the best it can be and hope it doesn't change. That being said, I think teams should have the right to decide their requirements for their team.
If I'm an NFL owner, I look at my sport and I look at every other sport. Mine is the most profitable, most popular league in the country, so why would I want to mess with that and end up like baseball in the proverbial toilet.

The shield is money. I would not do anything to mess with it

RealityCheck
06-29-2010, 06:39 PM
The NBA draft is absolute garbage.
Wait, wait, wait. No, it's not.

The NBA Draft is purely awesome. Freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors all competing for status, and throw in international players in the middle of it all, hell, it gives me goosebumps.

My dream is seeing an NFL Draft filled with different prospects from different classes and schools and even different countries, and that's what the NBA Draft gives you.

Not the old and boring QB, Oklahoma, QB, Texas, RB, Alabama, WR, USC style.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 06:39 PM
and the nfl has the right as an employer to make their own rules not be forced to hire 18 year old cannon fodder.

Its a simple issue of safety.

Keep stepping to me and ill have to do it.

Do it, Skip.

I'm sure that Bill Polian would somehow force the Lions to take undersized 18 year olds in the top 10 every single year, while letting bona fide upperclassmen stars fall to him in the fifth round. You know, since NFL teams would be "forced to hire 18 year old cannon fodder." Or something.

wonderbredd24
06-29-2010, 06:42 PM
Wait, wait, wait. No, it's not.

The NBA Draft is purely awesome. Freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors all competing for status, and throw in international players in the middle of it all, hell, it gives me goosebumps.

My dream is seeing an NFL Draft filled with different prospects from different classes and schools and even different countries, and that's what the NBA Draft gives you.

Not the old and boring QB, Oklahoma, QB, Texas, RB, Alabama, WR, USC style.
The NBA draft is the closest thing to a crap shoot there is... it's gotten better in recent years, but the amount of ridiculous busts because everyone was guessing on nothing but potential makes it incredibly stupid. Oh, and even more exciting is when my team picks a kid in Europe that may never come over here... awesome. It's a ******* joke.

The NFL Draft is poker. The same teams end up at the final table everytime... there is an element of luck in it, but there is clearly a skilled involved. That's what makes the NFL Draft the best thing out there.

bce
06-29-2010, 06:50 PM
The NBA draft is the closest thing to a crap shoot there is... it's gotten better in recent years, but the amount of ridiculous busts because everyone was guessing on nothing but potential makes it incredibly stupid. Oh, and even more exciting is when my team picks a kid in Europe that may never come over here... awesome. It's a ******* joke.

The NFL Draft is poker. The same teams end up at the final table everytime... there is an element of luck in it, but there is clearly a skilled involved. That's what makes the NFL Draft the best thing out there.

This is the most intelligent statement ive read on this site.

The same teams end up at the final table every time. Couldnt have said it better myself.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 06:55 PM
This is the most intelligent statement ive read on this site.

The same teams end up at the final table every time. Couldnt have said it better myself.

Nobody has ever disputed that, you silly twat. Wonderbredd's reasons for this statement have to do with things that matter. You know, ownership, organizational competency, things of that nature. Your's have to do with a ******** conspiracy theory between NFL teams and Mel Kiper, a conspiracy you haven't been able to fully explain without completely contradicting yourself and coming off like an irrational moron.

bce
06-29-2010, 06:57 PM
Theres certainly plenty of bluffing, plenty of misdirection, plenty of betting the flop.

Thats why the same teams are sitting at the final table every time.

If its ok Im going to steal that. Ive already given the credit where it was due.

wonderbredd24
06-29-2010, 06:59 PM
As my argument happens to agree with bce's, I'm forced to evaluate whether I'm on the right side, but I'm going with the blind squirrel theory on this one.

Shane P. Hallam
06-29-2010, 07:05 PM
If I'm an NFL owner, I look at my sport and I look at every other sport. Mine is the most profitable, most popular league in the country, so why would I want to mess with that and end up like baseball in the proverbial toilet.

The shield is money. I would not do anything to mess with it

Once again, that is not our argument. Most of us have said: "This system works and is the best." That doesn't mean it is what should be there. NFL owners should make their own determinations. All 32 teams can say we will only draft players with three years out of HS experience. Great, that's fine with me, but let them and the kids choose.

bce
06-29-2010, 07:14 PM
As my argument happens to agree with bce's, I'm forced to evaluate whether I'm on the right side, but I'm going with the blind squirrel theory on this one.

I know it hurts to admit the truth. It hurts when everything youve ever believed about something is proven to be not true, that day the light comes on and the world changes forever.

Embrace it. i wont sit around here asking you to justify every word i say or use you as my herd.

You figured it out yourself. Run with it, you'll be so far ahead of the game theyll all be wondering what the hell youre thinking.

Accept the reality. It is not a roll of the dice, everything does not happen for the same reason and the goal isnt always the same.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 09:11 PM
I know it hurts to admit the truth. It hurts when everything youve ever believed about something is proven to be not true, that day the light comes on and the world changes forever.

Embrace it. i wont sit around here asking you to justify every word i say or use you as my herd.

You figured it out yourself. Run with it, you'll be so far ahead of the game theyll all be wondering what the hell youre thinking.

Accept the reality. It is not a roll of the dice, everything does not happen for the same reason and the goal isnt always the same.

Vague cliches. Cool.

Refresh my memory. Why do the same teams sit at the final table every year? I'm always open to new ideas, so enlighten me.

bce
06-29-2010, 09:23 PM
Because the nfl is a business, the draft is a business decision, and not every decision is made with the end of giving you a parade down main street with the lombardi.

bce
06-29-2010, 09:25 PM
Otherwise The nfl is run about 70% by morons. I dont believe it for a second.

prock
06-29-2010, 10:03 PM
So you are saying that people are too smart for the NFL not to be a conspiracy?

Ohhhh man. That is a new level of stupidity.

bce
06-29-2010, 10:24 PM
what im saying is, that not every decision is geared towards the best possible result on the football field. If that was the case 70% of the people in the nfl evaluating prospects are morons.

I dont believe thats the case. You must believe then thats the case, because thats the way 70% of nfl people draft, like morons. So there has to be some other explanation. As i see it, its all a business decision, and that business is not getting you a parade down main street with the lombardi necessarily.

So whats your explanation? are 70% of people who get paid to evaluate prospects morons that dont know what theyre doing?


Instead of calling people names, which is all that youre good at, explain it to me why it is how it is.

bce
06-29-2010, 10:25 PM
come on genius tell me why 70% of the people in the nfl cant properly evaluate prospects. lets go genius spew something other than an insult and a regurgitation of what someone else said.

prock
06-29-2010, 10:31 PM
First off, where are you getting this 70%? You made up this random number and assume it as fact. Explain that please, and prove it, with some pudding preferably.

Second off, there is no guarantee that a player with successfully transfer to the next level, the pros, smoothly. It is a whole different game, so when evaluating them in college, it isn't an exact science to determine who will play the best in the NFL. It is that simple.

So once you prove to me that 70% of draft people are morons with facts, I will debate it. Stop making up numbers.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-29-2010, 10:33 PM
I disagree about the whole argument for teams freedom. The market they compete in is completely artificial and manufactured. Maybe if a few things had gone differently in the development of the NFL as we find it today, but I don't really think that teams rights really have any bearing here.

As for the eligibility rules, they should stick until the NFL establishes a development league (which they should). It's a solid system that makes both the draft and the talent pool in the NFL better.

bce
06-29-2010, 10:33 PM
Look at paranoid moonducks research thread.

It should be a more exact science than 30%

2/3 of rd 1 picks and 50% of the top 10 are not the top 32 or the top 10. So please enlighten us on why that is other than its an "inexact science.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 10:42 PM
what im saying is, that not every decision is geared towards the best possible result on the football field. If that was the case 70% of the people in the nfl evaluating prospects are morons.

I dont believe thats the case. You must believe then thats the case, because thats the way 70% of nfl people draft, like morons. So there has to be some other explanation. As i see it, its all a business decision, and that business is not getting you a parade down main street with the lombardi necessarily.

So whats your explanation? are 70% of people who get paid to evaluate prospects morons that dont know what theyre doing?


Instead of calling people names, which is all that youre good at, explain it to me why it is how it is.

That's YOUR job. The burden of proof rests with the plaintiff. You're making a vague assertion that isn't provable. How the hell is somebody supposed to disprove something that's not provable in the first place?

prock
06-29-2010, 10:43 PM
I explained what it isn't an exact science. There are extraneous variables involved in the scouting and drafting processes. Lots of guys had the skill set, physical aspects, and even good production in college who just busted in the NFL. Everything isn't black or white. You never know how a human being will react when placed in a stressful situation.

bce
06-29-2010, 10:50 PM
You would think that people who are paid to dtermine such things and live it every day of their existence would know.

Truth is, you simply cant comprehend that every draft decision and every nfl decision is not necessarily geared towards the end of getting you a parade down main street with the lombardi. That decisions are made for other reasons in drafting and in all areas of the nfl to different ends other than winning championships for you.

Its all designed to get your money, not designed to get you parades. I know its not noble, it doesnt seem right, sports should be about pure competition, everybody should do every possible thing in the world to get you a parade.

Thats simply not how it is though.

prock
06-29-2010, 10:53 PM
How do you know that's not how it is? Where are you getting this from? You are just saying **** and expecting people to believe it is truth.

bce
06-29-2010, 11:01 PM
Just look at the history of the draft. Its not 70% of nfl people dont know what they are doing and just screw up on the way to getting you your parade. Every pick is a business decision, and that business is not getting you parades.

I used to be like you. Id think how in the world could they make that pick and pass on on so and so. They must be morons.Its all a roll of the dice. Then a very bright man whos been in this game since you were in diapers enlightened me as to why.

nfl people make business decisions first. Getting you a parade is a secondary goal. Draft picks are business decisions first and foremost and those decisions are the ones that make business sense first. Thats why you dont see the best 10 players picked in the top 10 or 15 in any year or the 30 best players picked in rd 1. Its not that they dont know, its that they are making business decisions.

Scotty D
06-29-2010, 11:05 PM
I used to be like you. Id think how in the world could they make that pick and pass on on so and so. They must be morons.Its all a roll of the dice. Then a very bright man whos been in this game since you were in diapers enlightened me as to why.


Was it this guy?

http://dascoop.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madden-j1.jpg

"YOU SEE BCE GZZGZGZGGZG THE GOOD TEAMS DRAFT GOOD PLAYERS ARGHGHGH AND THE BAD TEAMS DRAFT BAD PLAYERS HRGHRG>"

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 11:06 PM
You would think that people who are paid to dtermine such things and live it every day of their existence would know.
Irrelevant. Just because you are paid to do something for a living doesn't necessarily mean you are good at it. There are highly paid doctors, lawyers, politicians, CEOs, people in literally every field of work who are incompetent at their jobs.

Truth is, you simply cant comprehend that every draft decision and every nfl decision is not necessarily geared towards the end of getting you a parade down main street with the lombardi.
You keep saying that. We get it. What are the reasons you're asserting?

That decisions are made for other reasons in drafting and in all areas of the nfl to different ends other than winning championships for you.
This is so unintelligible and incoherent I don't know what to say.

Its all designed to get your money, not designed to get you parades.
NFL owners turn a profit regardless. Are some more dedicated and willing to spend more resources on winning than others? Absolutely. Everyone already knows that, so what exactly is your point?

I know its not noble, it doesnt seem right, sports should be about pure competition, everybody should do every possible thing in the world to get you a parade.
Again, how does this relate to the success and failure of draft prospects?

Thats simply not how it is though.
Please, explain to us HOW IT IS. You keep saying that it's a certain way, while failing to explain how it really works. You've done nothing but give more baseless assertions.

Did you know the little-known fact that my ferret, Bandit, is an accomplished driver, and that I’m constantly calling him up to come get me in his BMW when I’ve had too much to drink? You’re looking at me like you don’t believe me. Well duh, I'm getting defensive - you’re accusing me of making this all up. I’ve got a ferret named Bandit, and a BMW, and he drives it all the time. How the hell am I supposed to prove it I told you: he’s a good driver; he never gets pulled over. The proof is in the pudding. Why would anyone see him? He zips up, I get in, and he drives me home. Fine, you don’t believe me? Prove that my ferret has never once picked me up in his black 2002 BMW. I’m waiting. Give me one shred of evidence suggesting that this has never ever happened. What, just because you’ve never seen a ferret driving a $50,000 sportscar? Does the blind man not see the stars in the sky? Perhaps those don’t exist either. The proof is in the pudding.

See, I can play this game too.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:06 PM
Why would it be a good business decision to pick a player who you know isn't going to help you win? Your theory implies that it is sometimes a bad business decision to win. That is pretty ******* stupid. No one knows who the best players are going to be. It is a draft. It happens in every sport. Draft picks are educated guesses.

Again, you aren't proving anything. There is no fact here. It is your stupid ******* conspiracy theory that holds no water.

marshallb
06-29-2010, 11:12 PM
Did you know the little-known fact that my ferret, Bandit, is an accomplished driver, and that Iím constantly calling him up to come get me in his BMW when Iíve had too much to drink? Youíre looking at me like you donít believe me. Well duh, I'm getting defensive - youíre accusing me of making this all up. Iíve got a ferret named Bandit, and a BMW, and he drives it all the time. How the hell am I supposed to prove it I told you: heís a good driver; he never gets pulled over. The proof is in the pudding. Why would anyone see him? He zips up, I get in, and he drives me home. Fine, you donít believe me? Prove that my ferret has never once picked me up in his black 2002 BMW. Iím waiting. Give me one shred of evidence suggesting that this has never ever happened. What, just because youíve never seen a ferret driving a $50,000 sportscar? Does the blind man not see the stars in the sky? Perhaps those donít exist either. The proof is in the pudding.

Damn!! Will you sell me your ferret? I'll give you as much as you want, I just have to see that.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:13 PM
Wish I could give YFS more rep...

bce
06-29-2010, 11:17 PM
There are other ways to make money other than winning championships. Its not always the right thing to do for the bottom line to endeavor to build a championship team, especially in the short term. Profit is not directly tied to winning in the nfl, especialy in the short term.

Again you cant comprehend the idea that decisions are made for reasons other than winning. You cant comprehend that these people are in it to make money before they are in it to win you championships. Its supposed to be about you and your parade.

its simply about your wallett and how much they can get from it. I know it hurts. Its a sick sad world we live in where something as pure as football can be corrupted. Where its not all about your parade.

The only other explanation is that nfl talent evaluators are morons.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:22 PM
I can comprehend that idea, and it makes no sense to me. Winning makes you money. Nothing gets a fan base more excited than winning. You wanna sell out and sell jerseys, etc? Win games. What I can't comprehend is that how drafting bad players intentionally is going to make you more money. Explain that to me.

bce
06-29-2010, 11:34 PM
If you think of it as a business, it should make perefect sense. In some places you need winning or you dont make money. In some places, you need other streams of revenue and it doesnt matter if you win.

Profit is not tied to winning, especially in the short term. Sometimes when drafting you have to make short term decisions to help you make more money. You have to draft players sometimes who create interest in your product, as opposed to drafting players who are part of some long term winning strategy.

Theres a reason why scouts dont make draft choices and run football teams for the most part. Business people do that. They gather information, they feed it to the suits, the suits decide. the suits arent all about winning in most cases.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 11:36 PM
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9546/banditw.jpg

bce
06-29-2010, 11:36 PM
How many jerseys do you think ndumkong suh will sell as opposed to how many jerseys brandon graham would have sold in the short term? before a game is ever even played.

bce
06-29-2010, 11:37 PM
I generally find those who call themselves "stoners" are genrally fake stoners who want everyone to think theyre a real stoner because its somehow funny.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:38 PM
So you are telling me that teams draft busts on purpose, knowing they will bust? How is a player that is going to bust going to help you make money? I understand that you need to generate interest and teams sometimes play towards the short term, when they should think more about the long term. That is obvious, everyone knows it, and it is irrelevant. I don't understand how you think drafting bad players and being bad on purpose is going to make you more money than drafting good players and winning. That logic is so ******* stupid. You have yet to explain to me how drafting bad players who are going to bust is going to make you more money than drafting good ones that help you win.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:42 PM
How many jerseys do you think ndumkong suh will sell as opposed to how many jerseys brandon graham would have sold in the short term? before a game is ever even played.

First of all, Suh is going to help you win more games than Graham is. So this is an awful example.

But I will play along. Show me statistics. Find statistics with Graham jersey sales and Suh jersey sales. Then find the difference in profit. And then find the stats showing how much money a team makes when they are losing and when they are winning. If the difference of those jersey sales before the season starts is greater than the difference of overall profit when a team is a winner rather than a loser, then I won't call you a ****** for the rest of the night.

bce
06-29-2010, 11:45 PM
No they dont draft busts on purpose. They make "short term" investments on purpose. They draft players to sell more product or increase the perceived value in the short term as opposed to the expensive and time consuming strategy of building a championship caliber football team, which is not always the best thing for "the bottom line" especially in the short term.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 11:46 PM
I generally find those who call themselves "stoners" are genrally fake stoners who want everyone to think theyre a real stoner because its somehow funny.

Cool? Stoner is my last name. Yourfavestoner is a handle I've used for email addresses, screennames, etc. since I was in grade school. I'm also a registered medical marijuana patient, so 'Stoner' serves as a cool double entendre for me.

Keep the ad hominems up, though.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:47 PM
No they dont draft busts on purpose. They make "short term" investments on purpose. They draft players to sell more product or increase the perceived value in the short term as opposed to the expensive and time consuming strategy of building a championship caliber football team, which is not always the best thing for "the bottom line" especially in the short term.

Show me the statistics.

yourfavestoner
06-29-2010, 11:48 PM
Show me the statistics.

http://akopsa.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/pudding.jpg

It's right there, can't you see it?

bce
06-29-2010, 11:49 PM
Its not just jerseys. Its buzz, its A draft grades, its everyone saying you got the best player in the draft, its hearing 'detroit loins" until youre sick. Its a marketing campaign.

The champions arent built that way though, but thats not their interest. If it happens, thats great, but its not the long term goal.

And you say that ndumkong suh will help win more games. Theres no validity to that statement, theres nothing to back that statement up with fact. no games have been played, theres no record of it.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:49 PM
http://akopsa.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/pudding.jpg

It's right there, can't you see it?

Ahhhh, what was I thinking. Statistics and facts aren't needed when you have made up statistics and pudding!

Paranoidmoonduck
06-29-2010, 11:50 PM
bce, I'm not even sure you understand how the business model of the NFL works. Owners don't really make much of anything from owning a team. As of three years ago the mean operating income of an NFL team was $17.8 million. That's chicken scratch compared to the value of the team overall (the average NFL franchise is worth over $950 million).

No one goes into owning an NFL team to turn a profit while being owner. It just doesn't happen. The only way they come out ahead is if they make their franchise valuable for the eventual sale, and you do that by building a name for it. You build a name by winning games and championships. That's the case for every single team without exception.

The NFL as a business is in an exceptional amount of debt. The owners don't actually make much money compared to their investment and the amount of money they'd make from selling the team. The gap between income and value is considerably bigger than even your average business and bigger than even most other American sports.

Maybe the draft isn't an exact science because humans are hugely variable and the difference between surviving in college and surviving in the NFL is massive and maybe the NFL has some disparity because some people are genuinely better at their jobs than other people. Just a thought.

prock
06-29-2010, 11:52 PM
Its not just jerseys. Its buzz, its A draft grades, its everyone saying you got the best player in the draft, its hearing 'detroit loins" until youre sick. Its a marketing campaign.

The champions arent built that way though, but thats not their interest. If it happens, thats great, but its not the long term goal.

And you say that ndumkong suh will help win more games. Theres no validity to that statement, theres nothing to back that statement up with fact. no games have been played, theres no record of it.

It can't be backed up, but a logical and reasonable assumption can be made based on the fact that Suh is clearly a better player. You can keep this conspiracy theory up, while the rest of us just see the proof in the pudding that Suh is a better player.

Mr.Regular
06-30-2010, 12:34 AM
How many jerseys do you think ndumkong suh will sell as opposed to how many jerseys brandon graham would have sold in the short term? before a game is ever even played.
WTF? All jersey and merchandise sales are split 32 ways, no matter what team's merchandise is being sold. For every Ndamukong Suh jersey sold, every team profits the same amount. It was designed this way so teams wouldn't purposally sign/draft players for short term benefits, and teams could focus on just straight up improving their team.

descendency
06-30-2010, 12:56 AM
How do you know that's not how it is? Where are you getting this from? You are just saying **** and expecting people to believe it is truth.

edit: I put it a harsh way.

Let me say it this way. There are clearly teams that pay as little as they can to put a product on the field and capitalize on fans having little other viable for football.

FUNBUNCHER
06-30-2010, 03:11 AM
I coach high school kids... I've seen more than a few college kids up and the pros

The leap, physically, from high school to college is enormous unto itself. The leap from high school to the pros is insane.

The number of guys who could physically make that jump is a very short list including basically Herschel Walker and that's just about it.

People look at heights and weights and see they don't change much, but a guy like Percy Harvin was getting Florida nutrition and Florida trainers for 3 years before going pro, so he was definitely a different person between high school and draft day.

Agree with this entire post!!

Except for the rare skill position player, and I can't see anyone except the most gifted RB being able to make the jump, no 18 - 19 year old is ready from a skill standpoint or is physically mature enough to play pro ball.

I don't think the NFL has a financial incentive to draft under 20 players and play them in a developmental league when the NCAA trains and develops future NFL players for FREE.

bce, no GM or HC deliberately drafts players with the intention of not winning games or championships. Some teams have utterly incompetent scouting departments and player personnel executives, (see Matt Millen and Vinny Cerrato), who have no clue how to build a winning football team and tend to over-value certain 'flashy' positions and not players who are the foundations of all great organizations - interior lineman and a franchise QB.

Sure, there are teams that don't do everything possible to field the best team on Sundays, like re-signing their top players to lucrative deals or bringing in top veteran FAs, ( the reason why Barry Sanders retired in his prime), but NO team goes into a draft needing a top OT and passing on Joe Thomas or Jake Long, or needs a QB and passes on Peyton Manning.
But they do miss on a guy like Brady or Romo because the NFL player evaluation process is more 'art' than a science. It happens even more in college with HS players who go on to become stars that were passed over by top 25 programs.

There's no conspiracy; yeah some owners are cheap, and there are a few GMs who only care about fielding a competitive team and aren't trying to build a SB contender, but since the majority of GMs/head scouts/HCs are fired for LOSING football games, they have every motivation to pick the best players they possibly can.

I gotta give you a tin foil hat for this line of reasoning, bce.

Cigaro
06-30-2010, 03:17 AM
I think it's fine where it's at, but if it had to move anywhere, being a bigtime CFB fan, I'd rather it'd be four years.

PossibleCabbage
06-30-2010, 03:46 AM
Changing it to make the requirements looser would be bad for everybody: bad for the NFL, bad for college football, and bad for the kids.

Invariably, if you had looser requirements you'd get a torrent of prospects who got told their **** didn't stink so much by college recruiters that they think they're ready for the big money game. Then you get 19 year old kids declaring for the NFL draft, and no team would touch them in the first three rounds. So the kid gives up his amateur status, doesn't make much money, and probably doesn't make a roster and ultimately has no long term career in football. Moreover, whichever university he played/would play for is denied a player who could grow into a major contributor. Everybody loses.

I think that, thankfully, it's not going to change since the NFL simply doesn't want to deal with the horde of kids who would try to get in the NFL without being ready, to let in the one or two who might actually be ready ahead of schedule. Teams already struggle as it is when they draft redshirt sophomores, who do virtually nothing in their first years as an NFL player (e.g. Aaron Maybin) but a year later they can become very good players (e.g. Jermichael Finley). Would NFL teams really want to have to waste a roster spot on a guy for two or more years just because he has potential? You'd have to expand roster limits enormously to make that feasible. But NFL rosters are too small right now as it is, and guys with serious potential end up on the cutting room floor right now as it is simply due to the numbers game.

AntoinCD
06-30-2010, 04:27 AM
Changing it to make the requirements looser would be bad for everybody: bad for the NFL, bad for college football, and bad for the kids.

Invariably, if you had looser requirements you'd get a torrent of prospects who got told their **** didn't stink so much by college recruiters that they think they're ready for the big money game. Then you get 19 year old kids declaring for the NFL draft, and no team would touch them in the first three rounds. So the kid gives up his amateur status, doesn't make much money, and probably doesn't make a roster and ultimately has no long term career in football. Moreover, whichever university he played/would play for is denied a player who could grow into a major contributor. Everybody loses.

I think that, thankfully, it's not going to change since the NFL simply doesn't want to deal with the horde of kids who would try to get in the NFL without being ready, to let in the one or two who might actually be ready ahead of schedule. Teams already struggle as it is when they draft redshirt sophomores, who do virtually nothing in their first years as an NFL player (e.g. Aaron Maybin) but a year later they can become very good players (e.g. Jermichael Finley). Would NFL teams really want to have to waste a roster spot on a guy for two or more years just because he has potential? You'd have to expand roster limits enormously to make that feasible. But NFL rosters are too small right now as it is, and guys with serious potential end up on the cutting room floor right now as it is simply due to the numbers game.

I agree with this however I still dont think this is the major point that should stop it. There is so much talk about concussions and player's health after they retire. Adding another 3 or 4 years of play onto that makes it a lot worse.

Then look at the Kevin Everett situation. He was a grown man who was fully able physically to play the game but still suffered a life threatening injury. It is the nature of an intensely physical game. 99% of 18yr olds simply are not ready from a physical standpoint to take such punishment without there being a higher risk of serious injury.

Addict
06-30-2010, 05:24 AM
I dunno guys... your anthem DOES say land of the free...

JHL6719
06-30-2010, 05:54 AM
Yeah..um.. nobody (not even the NFL) is stopping these kids right out of high school from working or getting a job.... they can go get a job if they want..

But they can most certainly tell them that they CANT WORK HERE until they've been out of high school for 3 years....

Playing in the NFL is a priveledge not a right... and the NFL is a private entity..

The NFL has absolutely nothing to gain by providing an avenue for these kids to go out there on Sundays and get seriously injured because their bodies aren't finished developing yet.... and I for one certainly wouldn't enjoy seeing it happen either...

Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves...

Vox Populi
06-30-2010, 07:47 AM
There are 0 high school players ready for the nfl. Then you sit them on the sideline and your sitting a guy on the sideline and paying him x million per year really having no clue, no basis by which to judge that player, all there is tape against high schoolers. We all know the difference between hs talent level and the nfl. Are you going to judge a prospect based on what they did against your 160 next door neighbors kid middle linebacker?

Hi, my name is Amobi Okoye. Your argument is irrelevant.

Halsey
06-30-2010, 07:57 AM
I don't want the NFL to change its' eligibility rule. If you're going to argue that people should be able to work whenever they want, then why even require them to graduate high school. I mean if it's not fair to make them wait three years after high school, why even make them wait to graduate? If they can play, they can play, right. The NFL can start Drafting players before they even finish high school.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-30-2010, 10:05 AM
Hi, my name is Amobi Okoye. Your argument is irrelevant.

Amobi Okoye faced college talent and had college conditioning. It's not a realistic argument to say that simply because he was 19 that he was representative of a high school senior.

Shane P. Hallam
06-30-2010, 11:35 AM
I think I found the topic for my radio show on Saturday :)

RealityCheck
06-30-2010, 04:03 PM
I think I found the topic for my radio show on Saturday :)
Please do it, Shane.

Clarkw267
06-30-2010, 04:58 PM
Yeah..um.. nobody (not even the NFL) is stopping these kids right out of high school from working or getting a job.... they can go get a job if they want..

But they can most certainly tell them that they CANT WORK HERE until they've been out of high school for 3 years....

Playing in the NFL is a priveledge not a right... and the NFL is a private entity..

The NFL has absolutely nothing to gain by providing an avenue for these kids to go out there on Sundays and get seriously injured because their bodies aren't finished developing yet.... and I for one certainly wouldn't enjoy seeing it happen either...

Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves...

This is 100% correct.

People coming with the "land of the free" argument need to get their heads checked.

The guys with the checkbooks are the ones who make up the rules. If the owners really wanted the eligibility changed, it would be changed. However, they don't, and they are the employers.

If a kid doesn't want to go the college route. Fine. Go work out on your own and play in ****** semi-pro leagues for 3 years, and then declare for the draft. There's your land of the free.

RealityCheck
06-30-2010, 05:05 PM
So, who wants to do a mock draft with all players eligible, just for fun?

Shane P. Hallam
06-30-2010, 06:59 PM
Please do it, Shane.

Done. Maybe we can get a few callers from here (looking at you bce :D)

dannyz
07-01-2010, 02:21 AM
Yeah that should be a good show. For the record I was not talking about kids just coming out of High School I was saying players who just finished their Freshmen Year.

yourfavestoner
07-01-2010, 10:20 AM
As far as the argument for protecting the young players, I think this needs to be considered as well:
Chris Henry, a guy who plays a position with the smallest amount of contact possible on the field (sans maybe the QB), already showed signs of brain damage and debilitating protein growths in his brain tissue in his autopsy. He was a 26 year-old wide receiver! Imagine what a high school senior linebacker or offensive lineman's brain must look like.

bce
07-01-2010, 08:29 PM
Agree with this entire post!!

Except for the rare skill position player, and I can't see anyone except the most gifted RB being able to make the jump, no 18 - 19 year old is ready from a skill standpoint or is physically mature enough to play pro ball.

I don't think the NFL has a financial incentive to draft under 20 players and play them in a developmental league when the NCAA trains and develops future NFL players for FREE.

bce, no GM or HC deliberately drafts players with the intention of not winning games or championships. Some teams have utterly incompetent scouting departments and player personnel executives, (see Matt Millen and Vinny Cerrato), who have no clue how to build a winning football team and tend to over-value certain 'flashy' positions and not players who are the foundations of all great organizations - interior lineman and a franchise QB.

Sure, there are teams that don't do everything possible to field the best team on Sundays, like re-signing their top players to lucrative deals or bringing in top veteran FAs, ( the reason why Barry Sanders retired in his prime), but NO team goes into a draft needing a top OT and passing on Joe Thomas or Jake Long, or needs a QB and passes on Peyton Manning.
But they do miss on a guy like Brady or Romo because the NFL player evaluation process is more 'art' than a science. It happens even more in college with HS players who go on to become stars that were passed over by top 25 programs.

There's no conspiracy; yeah some owners are cheap, and there are a few GMs who only care about fielding a competitive team and aren't trying to build a SB contender, but since the majority of GMs/head scouts/HCs are fired for LOSING football games, they have every motivation to pick the best players they possibly can.

I gotta give you a tin foil hat for this line of reasoning, bce.



They make short term investments. Its a business decisiopn. Its not purposely drafting bad players. Its drafting players who everyone knows, who all the bloggers and mel kiper say is the most valuable player. Its drafting college award winners and the guys everyone talks about because cbs sports and espn say their name constantly.

Its a marketing campaign. Its a short term investment and return strategy. A lot of teams in the nfl have short term investment and return strategies.

Its like a very wise man siad "the reason why the same players always reach the final table". Its like the stock market. The solid players have long term growth strategies. Thats why theyre always at the final table. The quick buck artists come and go as far as winning goes. Becuase theyre not in it to win it for the long haul, Theyre not drafting to contend every year. They try to catch lightning in a bottle, if they get a few years contention from their short term investments theyre happy then they go back into the toilet again having made their money.

There is a formula for the contenders. And that formula is not using high draft picks on defensive tackles and paying them 12 million per year. That is a marketing campaign. A short term investment strategy. A business decision.

believe it dont believe it. Theres no other explanation for the same players being at the final table every year. Theres no other explanation for one team going to the playoffs every year for 10 years and another team not going at alll when the team not going at all has the pick of the supposed best talent every single year. It should even out but it never does.

I dont think thats coincidence or ineptitude. Its a question of long term decision making vs short term investments in the war room. Its do we pick the guy that won the awrads and that mel kiper loves so we can satisfy the short term desires of our fan base, or do we pick the most valuable player with our high draft picks.

prock
07-01-2010, 11:13 PM
Alright bce, everyone is good at their job and humans don't make mistakes. Those things are too obvious, so the only answer is a conspiracy.

prock
07-02-2010, 12:20 AM
There is a formula for the contenders. And that formula is not using high draft picks on defensive tackles and paying them 12 million per year. That is a marketing campaign. A short term investment strategy. A business decision.



Richard Seymour was the 6th overall pick. Sedrick Ellis was 9th. High draft picks on defensive tackles obviously are the blueprint for failure. I mean, if the Pats and Saints just knew the "formula for contenders", they would probably have about 4 rings between them, but they took defensive tackles early and paid them big.

Oh wait...

FUNBUNCHER
07-02-2010, 01:01 AM
There's a reason why bad teams are bad, bce.

Up until Vinny Cerrato was fired, I believe the SKins had approximately 3 to 5 college scouts on staff - the guys that actually go to campuses to watch games and practices and work out prospects.
Consider that Cerrato didn't see value in selecting Olineman high and his over-valuation of skill players and willingness to trade draft picks for aging vets looking for one last big paycheck, and you understand why the SKins haven't been contenders in almost 20 years.

It's not by design, it most cases it's simple incompetence and a flawed player evaluation/ poor organizational philosophy on how to build a winning football team.

Yeah, bad teams through a loyal fan base and successful marketing can still turn a profit, but no GM or HC sets out at the beginning of the season to field a bad or mediocre football team.

yourfavestoner
07-02-2010, 01:07 AM
They make short term investments. Its a business decisiopn. Its not purposely drafting bad players. Its drafting players who everyone knows, who all the bloggers and mel kiper say is the most valuable player. Its drafting college award winners and the guys everyone talks about because cbs sports and espn say their name constantly.

Its a marketing campaign. Its a short term investment and return strategy. A lot of teams in the nfl have short term investment and return strategies.

Its like a very wise man siad "the reason why the same players always reach the final table". Its like the stock market. The solid players have long term growth strategies. Thats why theyre always at the final table. The quick buck artists come and go as far as winning goes. Becuase theyre not in it to win it for the long haul, Theyre not drafting to contend every year. They try to catch lightning in a bottle, if they get a few years contention from their short term investments theyre happy then they go back into the toilet again having made their money.

There is a formula for the contenders. And that formula is not using high draft picks on defensive tackles and paying them 12 million per year. That is a marketing campaign. A short term investment strategy. A business decision.

believe it dont believe it. Theres no other explanation for the same players being at the final table every year. Theres no other explanation for one team going to the playoffs every year for 10 years and another team not going at alll when the team not going at all has the pick of the supposed best talent every single year. It should even out but it never does.

I dont think thats coincidence or ineptitude. Its a question of long term decision making vs short term investments in the war room. Its do we pick the guy that won the awrads and that mel kiper loves so we can satisfy the short term desires of our fan base, or do we pick the most valuable player with our high draft picks.

http://tunagolf.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/skip_bayless_projectile_vomit.jpg












http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8340/sasqc.jpg

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-02-2010, 03:28 PM
if they're gonna repetively have us sit thru the national anthem and sing about the "land of the free" then yes they should change it....if a scientist or chemsist has what it takes to enter they're profession str8 out of high school there isnt nothing preventing a company from hiring them, why should football players be any different in a "free" country?

I was really convinced and set in my ways that the eligibility rule is a good thing, but this changed my mind. If a scientist or a chemsist doesn't need a college education, why should football players?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-02-2010, 03:39 PM
What about a system kind of like hockey and baseball(I think) where a guy can get drafted whenever he wants to, but then instead of signing and taking up a roster spot, the team that drafts him just has his rights and he can play in college until he's ready to make an impact on his NFL team. Let him attend OTAs and stuff so he can be around professional players and learn from them, and then send him back to college for the year.

TACKLE
07-02-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't think they should change the eligibility rules. With that being said, the concept that football players should be forced to receive a college education in order to have the opportunity to play professionally is flawed. Just because someone does not want to pursue post secondary education does not mean that they shouldn't be able to pursue a career as a professional football player. No other sport requires its players to come exclusively from university. Even with the NBA's new rule, players still have the option to play professionally in Europe. If someone is an elite athlete who is dedicated and loves football, why should they have to maintain a certain GPA in university classes in order to play. There should be another avenue other than university to play in the NFL but I do realize that at this point that won't happen because the level of competition at the college level will not be able to be matched.

Shane P. Hallam
07-02-2010, 04:02 PM
I don't think they should change the eligibility rules. With that being said, the concept that football players should be forced to receive a college education in order to have the opportunity to play professionally is flawed. Just because someone does not want to pursue post secondary education does not mean that they shouldn't be able to pursue a career as a professional football player. No other sport requires its players to come exclusively from university. Even with the NBA's new rule, players still have the option to play professionally in Europe. If someone is an elite athlete who is dedicated and loves football, why should they have to maintain a certain GPA in university classes in order to play. There should be another avenue other than university to play in the NFL but I do realize that at this point that won't happen because the level of competition at the college level will not be able to be matched.

Though I agree with you, the arguments will come out that they can go play in the UFL or flag football if they want to :P

TACKLE
07-02-2010, 04:12 PM
Though I agree with you, the arguments will come out that they can go play in the UFL or flag football if they want to :P

Exactly. College football has progressed to such a high level that nothing else can provide comparable level of competition.

marshallb
07-02-2010, 04:56 PM
Exactly. College football has progressed to such a high level that nothing else can provide comparable level of competition.

and IMO it's the same way with college basketball, since you brought up the Euro route. It takes Euro guys longer to get acclimated to the pro game than college guys for the most part, either if they stay over in Europe for another year or two or if they come over right away most of them take a year or two before they're up to speed with the guys who were in the same draft class. Look at guys like Bargnani and Gallinari for example, they both came over right away after being drafted very high and have now completed 4 and 2 years respectively, but both did next to nothing their first year or 2 overall, but are both starting to come around and develop into good players.

I still think that college football is the only real way to go, but with the UFL in place, maybe that can become another option and hell, maybe a couple of guys will even go that route in the future. If some of the former or just below NFL level players keep going to the UFL that may become a decent option for the guys who don't want to keep up the gpa or go to class. They very likely wouldn't get to the same level come draft time as the college guys, but who knows, maybe that will help them out in the potential and upside department.

Anyways, to get my opinion out there on this, I am for keeping the eligibility rule the way it is. The draft is a big enough crapshoot the way it is, and would be even more so if the NFL started letting guys out of high school or after their freshman year enter, and the hit rate would drop even more so.

And to whoever said do it like baseball does, where they can draft them and keep tham or let them go to college, but retain their rights, once they play a college baseball game they lose those rights and have to be drafted again, or at least it's something like that. Plus, if they let them keep their rights while playing in college, but go to OTA's and stuff like that, 2 things would happen, 1) the NCAA wouldn't be happy as they'd be getting paid while playing college football, and 2) the NFL would need to make the draft longer as well as add roster spots either overall or just for those types of guys.

bce
07-02-2010, 07:02 PM
Plus you would have moms running out on the field with tears in their eyes because their baby died playing football.

RealityCheck
07-02-2010, 08:25 PM
Plus you would have moms running out on the field with tears in their eyes because their baby died playing football.
Now it's getting out of control.

It's not like every single freshman who declared to the Draft would get heavily injured on the football field, let alone dying.

Goddammit.

LonghornsLegend
07-02-2010, 08:51 PM
I don't think they should change the eligibility rules. With that being said, the concept that football players should be forced to receive a college education in order to have the opportunity to play professionally is flawed. Just because someone does not want to pursue post secondary education does not mean that they shouldn't be able to pursue a career as a professional football player. No other sport requires its players to come exclusively from university. Even with the NBA's new rule, players still have the option to play professionally in Europe. If someone is an elite athlete who is dedicated and loves football, why should they have to maintain a certain GPA in university classes in order to play. There should be another avenue other than university to play in the NFL but I do realize that at this point that won't happen because the level of competition at the college level will not be able to be matched.




Great point, and the system is flawed. Then people act surprised when athletes take basket weaving 101 and Human Sexuality 102 as their classes, because most of them don't really want to get an education nor are they interested in learning much before they go pro which they have that right.



I wish there was another outlet, or league where they could go for a few years, but even somewhere like the UFL the talent pool and competition level isn't the same and there is just too big of a gap between that and College. Nobody would really be able to tell what type of prospect they were looking at.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-02-2010, 08:53 PM
Well if the UFL can succeed in filling up with guys who just aren't quite good enough to make the final 53 of an NFL team, it will be noticeably stronger than NCAA football. All the guys on those teams will have been solid college players, and it isn't like they're going to get worse after college or anything.

bce
07-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Now it's getting out of control.

It's not like every single freshman who declared to the Draft would get heavily injured on the football field, let alone dying.

Goddammit.


Theyre going to be badly physically overmatched was the point.Youre talking about not fully developed boys taking the nfl field against grown men trained to physically harm and physically capable of doing so. Did you ever see when a high school player gets hurt the parents run out on the field. If johnny football blows out his knee mommy runs out on the field.

Youre going to go from getting hit by my next door neighbors kid 175 lb middle linebacker to getting hit by troy polumalu or ray lewis in an 8 month span of time.

Youre going to get hurt.

bce
07-03-2010, 01:45 PM
Great point, and the system is flawed. Then people act surprised when athletes take basket weaving 101 and Human Sexuality 102 as their classes, because most of them don't really want to get an education nor are they interested in learning much before they go pro which they have that right.



I wish there was another outlet, or league where they could go for a few years, but even somewhere like the UFL the talent pool and competition level isn't the same and there is just too big of a gap between that and College. Nobody would really be able to tell what type of prospect they were looking at.


The NFL has a perfect system. A free minor leagues. They dont have to pay to develop players for 5 years with the hopes that they may some day pan out and if not its a waste of money. They already know who the players are, someone else develops them free of charge. And people love the product, its a succesful business model. The ufl developmental league is going to cost them money, and no one is going to watch or pay for it. College football is going to draw 100,000 people, get more people interested in the nfl, and its free for them.

You want to talk about the issue of "student athletes" lets talk about all those free educations the womens soccer team and the mens cross country team gets simply because of college football. Its not just about what claseses they take or if their degree is in recreation management dtermining their value. Its a good system not only for college football, but for the colleges themsleves and everyone who attends those colleges. Its a good system for the nfl because it stirs interest in the nfl game, and its free development. Its a good system for football players because it bridges the gap between playing with children and playing with grown men. These players are paying for their educations and the educations of many other people.

The system, is one of the main reason why the nfl works. Its not broken. Its much closer to best case scenario for everyone involved, than broken.

Whats "broken" are these athlete haters who dont realize just how much "the system" brings to higher education at these schools that produce nfl level talent.

Shane P. Hallam
07-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Going to be discussing this on my Podcast now (6 PM EST-7 PM EST):

http://bit.ly/9JKhxL

gogobroncos
07-03-2010, 07:36 PM
Going to be discussing this on my Podcast now (6 PM EST-7 PM EST):

http://bit.ly/9JKhxL

Listening to the archive right now Shane.

Good stuff man.... gotta love that Rome impersonator though. :-D

Shane P. Hallam
07-03-2010, 07:41 PM
Listening to the archive right now Shane.

Good stuff man.... gotta love that Rome impersonator though. :-D

Haha, I did. Who was it?

RealityCheck
07-03-2010, 07:42 PM
Hey, Shane, sorry, missed your podcast, but I'm listening to it now.

Shane P. Hallam
07-03-2010, 07:44 PM
Hey, Shane, sorry, missed your podcast, but I'm listening to it now.

Sweet man, hope you enjoy it.

gogobroncos
07-03-2010, 07:55 PM
Haha, I did. Who was it?

I'm still not sure! He's called Jared's show and JC's show before, but he's not too bad. I've heard a lot worse, kinda like....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s8BZjcP3qU :P

RealityCheck
07-03-2010, 08:12 PM
Alright, I didn't want to throw even more wood in the fire, but... here's my line of thought:

<Hypothetical situation mode=on>

I'm 19 years old. I played a full season of college football, and I had a good overall season.
John Wall is 19 years old and he's now a pro basketball player. Bryce Harper is 17 years old and he will be a pro baseball player by the time he's 19. So why I can't play professional football at this age?
I feel my body is ready for the punishment, since it's a heavy collision sport. I understand I'll have to be mature.
But I'm an independent, self-sufficient, and responsible adult man, and I want to play professional football. I live in a free country which is the United States of America. No rule should stop doing me from doing that.

<Hypothetical situation mode=off>

Understand guys. You're in a free country. Since you hit majority (which is 18 years since your birth), you can do anything you want. You can drink booze. You can smoke. You can get arrested. You can serve the Army. You can play pro basketball. You can play pro baseball. You can play pro soccer. You can play pro hockey.

There's one thing you can't. You can't play pro football. And this is utterly stupid.

You know what's even more stupid? You can't play pro football if you're 20 years old.
Trent Richardson, Vontaze Burfict, Ray Ray Armstrong, Luke Kuechly, Manti Te'o, Alshon Jeffery.
What do they have in common? They're fantastic players. They are ready for pro football. But they can't. They're all adult men. They're all citizens of a free country.

So, answer me, fellow draftniks, can the NFL take the right of being a professional football player away from adult, responsible men, just because they've only spent two years in college instead of three?

Think about it. And realize. This makes zero sense.

/rant

PS: Read the following publication, SPECIALLY Item III, and you'll see what I'm talking about:
http://www.christophertblacklaw.com/archived-publications/nfl-draft-eligibility-rule-and-sherman-antitrust-act.html

PS2: An example of why this rule is unfair:

Let's look at Taylor Mays. The guy was on fire on his soph. season. He could have been a Top 10 pick in the '08 Draft. But he couldn't declare even if he wanted to. His fate? The mid-2nd round.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
07-03-2010, 08:27 PM
The NFL is a private business in a free country, making up its own rules. Also 18 year olds cannot drink alcohol either.

RealityCheck
07-03-2010, 08:29 PM
The NFL is a private business in a free country, making up its own rules. Also 18 year olds cannot drink alcohol either.
Yeah, that did pass through my mind. My bad.

bce
07-03-2010, 08:37 PM
In a free country employers also have the right to set their employment rules as well. Its not a moral issue. Its a safety issue. Its a money issue.

Just because you can smoke cigarettes doesnt justify you trying to change employment rules in place for valid reasons. You can play football if youre 20 years old, provided youre 3 years removed from your hs graduating class. Amobi okoye was 19 years old.

Theres nothing worse than saying I should be able to do this because i can do that.

The answer to your question is yes the nfl has the right in a free country, as a private business, to make their own employment rules. It is not 'freedom" to force them to bring in workers that they dont want to bring in.

prock
07-04-2010, 12:50 AM
In a free country employers also have the right to set their employment rules as well. Its not a moral issue. Its a safety issue. Its a money issue.

Just because you can smoke cigarettes doesnt justify you trying to change employment rules in place for valid reasons. You can play football if youre 20 years old, provided youre 3 years removed from your hs graduating class. Amobi okoye was 19 years old.

Theres nothing worse than saying I should be able to do this because i can do that.

The answer to your question is yes the nfl has the right in a free country, as a private business, to make their own employment rules. It is not 'freedom" to force them to bring in workers that they dont want to bring in.

Wow, bce made a competent post! I actually agree with this, but I feel like I am obligated to argue against it just because it feels so wrong to agree with him. Every dog has his day, and every moron can sound semi-intelligent once in awhile too, I guess.

wordofi
07-04-2010, 08:38 AM
No. It's not going to happen anyways. College football would lose a lot of money if players could leave early or not go to college at all.

RealityCheck
07-04-2010, 10:42 AM
No. It's not going to happen anyways. College football would lose a lot of money if players could leave early or not go to college at all.
Does it make college basketball any poorer?

Sniper
07-04-2010, 10:46 AM
Does it make college basketball any poorer?

Probably not, but college basketball actually has *GASP* a playoff to determine the winner which draws in a whole ******** of money.

RealityCheck
07-04-2010, 11:04 AM
Probably not, but college basketball actually has *GASP* a playoff to determine the winner which draws in a whole ******** of money.
... and that's what college football should do as well?

dannyz
07-04-2010, 04:54 PM
I am talking about is change the rule so a guy has to atleast play his Freshmen Year let the Five Star Recruit prove himself atleast one year against College players and then see if he still is good like Bryce Brown Five Star Recruit would maybe been drafted in the first round and then look now would maybe be drafted in the thrid but like Trent Richardson Five Star Recruit and still looks like a first rounder.

Sniper
07-04-2010, 05:23 PM
I am talking about is change the rule so a guy has to atleast play his Freshmen Year let the Five Star Recruit prove himself atleast one year against College players and then see if he still is good like Bryce Brown Five Star Recruit would maybe been drafted in the first round and then look now would maybe be drafted in the thrid but like Trent Richardson Five Star Recruit and still looks like a first rounder.

Dear God, that was painful.

TACKLE
07-04-2010, 05:27 PM
Dear God, that was painful.

Yes it was.

dannyz, please feel free to use the two buttons located under the "L" on your keyboard.

tjsunstein
07-04-2010, 05:48 PM
Changing the rule would create even more of a disparity in the draft between actual talent and alternative motives. The Julio Jones and Trent Richardsons of the world would be in a pool with players who had great, fluky freshmen seasons, trying to cash in.

No change should be made.

Besides, it would put even more pressure on scouts than there already is. Both recreational and professional.