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LonghornsLegend
07-01-2010, 07:58 PM
Were slacking around here, I think we had the 2010 thread up in May after the 09 draft, or maybe it was just due to depression in the draft lol.


I was pushing the Earl Thomas bandwagon last year and while he would of been perfect for us he was out of our range. This year is really looking like a strong Safety class and it would be hard to pass up some of these guys but AOA cannot be forgotten either.


Does anyone have any favorites as of now for players, or to make it easier, just a position were gonna target in the 1st round? I wouldn't mind an impact 3-4 DE like Canty that can get after the QB but Safety looks pretty good.


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/1007/slideshow_100755/display_image.jpg


Everything I've learned about Rahim Moore I love, ballhawking FS that can capitalize on mistakes by the QB from the pressure we provide. That's easily our biggest need on DE, especially since creating turnovers has been lacking. Run support isn't there yet, but if he can react to the ball in the air like he's shown I could care less.



http://nbcsportsmedia.msnbc.com/j/NBCSports/Interactives%20and%20Slideshows/College%20football/ss_090728_Top25/090728_UNC.hlarge.jpg


Deunta Williams may be a better prospect, more complete and better tackler, not sure he's the best fit for us though. I do like him and he's always stood out to me.



There are alot more safeties I'll probably look at later, these 2 are the most intriguing for now.

thule
07-17-2010, 04:46 PM
Dallas has roughly about $138 million in cap this year. That is before the rookies and miles get deals. So I expect that to be even higher. In 2009 the cap was $127 million just for reference.

Of their current starters and key role players, only Deion Anderson, Alan Ball, Kyle Kosier and Marcus Spears are schedule to become free agents in 2011.

Next I want to look at players who are being paid for past performance...not for anticipated play.

2010 Cap Value
Gurode - 4.8m
Barber - 5.8m
L Davis - 8.4m
Newman - 11m
R Williams - 15m

That is $44.9 million which is 32.5% of the cowboys 2010 payroll.

I bring this up because not only was this offseason one to cut bad salaries...owners will also have a chance to do it this offseason since the new CBA doesn't look like it'll get done during the season.

This offseason we saved over $12 million by cutting Flo and Hamlin. Free and Ball are set to make just over $1 million between the two of them.

So to break it down...we have

FA
FB
FS/CB
LG
DE

Cuts?
C
RB
RG
CB
WR

Those are 9 starters who could be gone next year. However unlikely I think it is that we'd see all 5 of our bad structured contracts go...I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 or 3 of those guys gone or restructure a deal.

Wanna predict the draft...follow the money.

We know interior OL will be a huge look.
CB will definitely be an early need.
WR has been addressed a year early I wouldnt worry about it being a early selection.
DE/FS we have some decent cheap talent to prove themselves this year. We won't know till after the year.

This doesn't bother me one bit. interior OL/CB talent both prove to be great positions to select in the first round...they have very high success rates. The rest is just fill in imo. Our draft should be fairly easy to predict this year.

Im_a_Romosexual
07-17-2010, 05:31 PM
I want Aaron Williams, but I doubt it happens.

D-Unit
07-19-2010, 03:08 PM
Well our 7th rounder is gone. We used it on NT Joshua Price-Brent (6-2, 320) from Illinois in the Supplemental draft. He was given a 4th round grade, but we got him with our 7th.

Some potential, but I read that he needs to work on strength. Easiest thing to fix.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/ill/sports/m-footbl/auto_original/2381248.jpeg

LizardState
07-19-2010, 04:52 PM
Deunta Williams may be a better prospect, more complete and better tackler, not sure he's the best fit for us though. I do like him and he's always stood out to me.

Williams is a tackling machine -- 65 last yr with 55 solo stops, 6 INTs (12 career), 1st team all-ACC. He's been climbing 2011 draft boards ever since he declared he was staying for the sr. yr, unless they're drafting in the top 10 & I don't think they will, Dallas will need trade up ammunition to take him. Now he's listed in the top 2-3 safety prospects.

LonghornsLegend
07-19-2010, 05:08 PM
I want Aaron Williams, but I doubt it happens.

Yea, I don't see him making it out of the top 20 at all, but with that said:


http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/07/36/14/image_7714367.jpg


Chykie Brown may be a much better choice for us.


I'm on record as saying I like him more then Aaron Williams personally, but I usually hype up 1 Longhorn per year, Orakpo, Earl Thomas, and he's my guy this year. I think we can get him in the 2nd-3rd rd depending on the type of year he has, but he has tools to end up much better then Williams. Physically and athletically he's the better DB, he just makes some mental lapses in games, going for big plays etc, but he could very easily sneak into the late 1st round with a solid year.


But I think he's someone we could target in round 2 and develop into a very fine starter opposite Jenkins. I still have hope for AOA as a future at FS to be honest, so right now I like the idea of Mike Pouncey in rd 1, and Chykie Brown in rd 2, at least before CFB season starts.

D-Unit
07-23-2010, 12:40 PM
I don't have a lot of faith in our DEs... at all.

LonghornsLegend
07-23-2010, 04:52 PM
I don't have a lot of faith in our DEs... at all.

I do. With Igor there was literally no drop off in play at all from Canty, our defensive was arguably at the highest level in the league in spurts as long as our CB play holds up. Bowen is my guy as well, and he's really got some upside to him, alot more then Spears and can end up a very solid starter as a DE in this scheme. We also tendered him higher then Spears if that means anything, but he's shown me more and more each year and he's steadily improving.


I wouldn't mind adding to the crop next year, but the DE's usually aren't the premiere position in this scheme, our D as a whole was better last year then the year before, and the year before we had Canty and a motivated Hamlin in the secondary.


With Spencer playing how he has, Jenkins, Ratliff, Ware, I think we just need to be able to still be aggressive and man cover guys on the edges and our DE's don't really concern me.

D-Unit
07-24-2010, 01:34 AM
I do. With Igor there was literally no drop off in play at all from Canty, our defensive was arguably at the highest level in the league in spurts as long as our CB play holds up. Bowen is my guy as well, and he's really got some upside to him, alot more then Spears and can end up a very solid starter as a DE in this scheme. We also tendered him higher then Spears if that means anything, but he's shown me more and more each year and he's steadily improving.


I wouldn't mind adding to the crop next year, but the DE's usually aren't the premiere position in this scheme, our D as a whole was better last year then the year before, and the year before we had Canty and a motivated Hamlin in the secondary.


With Spencer playing how he has, Jenkins, Ratliff, Ware, I think we just need to be able to still be aggressive and man cover guys on the edges and our DE's don't really concern me.
Cool beans. We'll agree to disagree for now. They could surprise me this year. I would say that we did see a drop off from Canty to Igor. I think we saw it not in their individual stats, but I think we saw it in the drop off of Ware's sacks. Igor did pretty good in run support but he did nothing to help Ware.

...and in this scheme, I agree that our DEs aren't the premier playmakers, but that shouldn't give them the excuse that they shouldn't make plays. They should be better playmakers than they were in Parcells' scheme for sure and we have yet to see that.

JoeyHeisman
07-24-2010, 01:19 PM
Off topic, but D, your sig makes me happy. I used to watch Chris play at West Forsyth when he was in high school, and then when he played at Wake. He's just a solid guy, and his family is great. I would be elated if he, Redick, and D12 did it big down in Orlando.

Also, let's draft Marcel Dareus :)

xxxxxxxx
09-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Can someone stick this?... Here is my breakdown:

For high round needs, I say the list is: C/OG, DE, S, CB. In that order, although safety depends on play.

C/OG: Kind of self explanatory. This preseason shows we need to invest a high pick or two on o-lineman. They can't play forever, better to be safe than sorry. I don't want this to be a repeat of not drafting a QB until Troy Aikman was in the hospital with his 325128th concussion, but the o-line version. And i don't want to be a team with every piece but we can't make a hole for a midget to get through or keep Romo upright. It's time to make the unsexy pick for the better of the football team.

DE: While the position is solid, players contracts are expiring, and we don't have a true playmaker. If someone falls, is with in reach of a trade up, etc, and is the best player on the board, then i'm all for it. To have another pass rushing threat on first and second down to go with our big 3, would be HUGE.

S: This is an enigma. It all depends on the play of ball, and the development/coaches faith in AOA. If they both pan out, this position could be set for a decade. If they don't, im ready to finally spend that first rounder on a safety. If Ball performs, I don't think this is a priority before round 4, if he doesn't, you have to think. Sensabagh is a JAG.

CB: This is all about getting Newman's future replacement. Sure, "he's had the best camp since he's been here" but he is turns 32 today actually. (saw an article on it) Also, I'm not a cletis gordon as our 4th corner fan. Sure your 4th corner can't be great, but he can be better than cletis gordon. I'm not for picking some tye hill, ahmad carroll, kelly jennings, fringe 1st/2nd prospect etc, but if a legit value is there, sure.

Those are my thoughts for now.

EDIT: Also, I know jason williams and sean lee blah blah blah, but if an ILB falls, i'd grab him in a heart beat. Let the best young player win the job.

Macarthur
09-20-2010, 05:09 PM
Here's some names I like:

Moffitt - G Wisc big and strong
Marcus Cannon - T/G TCU big and strong; playing LT this year and could provide immediate help in the interior OL. could move to RT once Columbo is gone.
Wisnewski - C Penn St. - I think it's time we bring in a pure center. He's really smart which would be a big change for us. :)

Jimmy Smith CB/S Colorado - I think this kid is a safety at the next level.

Ballard - DT Iowa - I think he would be great as a 3-4 DE. Very quick.

herniateddisc
09-20-2010, 10:04 PM
Lemme see .... the same crap as the last 4 years .....

ILB.
NT.
CB.
S.
OL.

Don't sleep on an early round QB either.

Please, no more OLB, WR, TEs, RB.

thule
09-20-2010, 11:26 PM
Lemme see .... the same crap as the last 4 years .....

ILB.
NT.
CB.
S.
OL.

Don't sleep on an early round QB either.

Please, no more OLB, WR, TEs, RB.

I know this is "your" top draft needs. But for purpose of discussion I'm going to reason on them.

ILB - won't be touched we are 5 deep with youth behind the experience. Brooking is on his last year I believe we'd be stupid to pick him up again imo...have to give Lee/Williams a shot. Leon Williams is decent enough to carry behind James at SILB.

NT no thanks...at this point in his career Ratliff moving seems like more work than it's worth. We have a good talent behind him now finally lets see him develop before we bring on any more talent. The guy behind ratliff won't see more than 10 snaps a game anyways on defense. 5-tech is a need tho with 3 out of the 3 DE's on the last year of their deal.

CB makes a ton of sense...this could be Newmans last year as a cowboy...but I have a feeling the team might want to keep him around for a veteran presence...it'll all come down to how much they think he has left in the tank and if his cap number reflects that. If i'm not mistaken next year he'll have top 5 money on the team...he'll be a tricky guy to peg.

S has been long overdue since Woody left...time to invest a high pick on one. My favorite is DeAndre McDaniel from Clemson...dude has NFL build and is a ball hawk. I'm not up as I should be on everything right now so it's subject to change but when I see him on the field he is a difference maker and that is what we need. I'm not looking for a Nate Allen type prospect we need an elite safety. We missed the "ball" on Atogwe. Get it? haha. This looks to be like a good safety class so we have no excuses not to come away with one. Be interesting to see if Sensabaugh is reupped I'm pretty sure he is on the last year of his deal...he is going to have to make more plays on the ball if he wants to stay on the team. That said we have good young depth at the position just need an elite guy to round out the corps.

OL is so hard to peg for me. RT would make a ton of sense to me. But yet our team feels the need to keep Brewster at OT...that is the huge question mark for me....maybe the injury to Barron caused them to keep him out there...I'm not sure but seems like he was forced to play LT in training camp and exceeded the minimal expectations they had for him...and thus he stayed there the rest of camp. Any scout that has ever seen the dude play says he needs to move inside because he looks more natural when not in space. Bryan Broddus was the latest and said it repeatively in TC.

Then you hear reports of Sam Young looking better than expected...up and downs sure..but for a 6th round pick it's encouraging. Plus we are talking about a guy who has the physical makeup...he just hasn't put it together yet...with some NFL coaching and a guy like Houck helping with some of the technical aspects maybe we can find ourselves another Doug Free. He has the pedigree and some good reports for TC...maybe that's enough to put it off for another year...which is when the big decision will come whether to draft a RT or start Young as Columbo is set to be a FA I believe.

Lastly you have the interior OL. Koiser is a nice piece...no matter what anyone says he makes the line calls and works great in space. He still can't handle the bull rush very effective but when he is out our OL goes from average to terrible so he does make us better. However that said he's going to be a FA after this year which begs the question do we draft a guy here. The simple answer is yes because it makes the most sense...but for whatever reason the team seems to like what Holland has to offer and maybe they try to ignore the problem for another year. I think this is a no brainer get a top tier guy and don't worry about it for the next 10 years...but for whatever reason we just don't seem to draft interior guys worth a ****. Backup C would be nice..someone who can play any spot on the interior sure would have a lot of value seems like every year there is a couple of guys we should target but don't. If we do we miss out on them. Something to think about...I still think the best play is to draft a top tier interior OL...give Brewster some work inside and at tackle and wait to see what we have in Sam Young. However I could easily see us not addressing the position in the top of the draft and just going with Holland. Brewster really ***** this whole situation up...noone knows what he is or where is best to play him. At this point I hate to write him off because he's only truly had one training camp...but it's as if he's being groomed as a future swing tackle...that means we either don't have the RT or we are waiting to see who is going to win it when the position becomes available...needless to say I don't like that strategy but I don't see practice everyday either.

Macarthur
09-21-2010, 10:54 AM
i was watching SF last night and wishing we had some guys like Iupati. We need an MFer at G. That's why I would like Cannon from TCU. The dude is 6-6 352 and was recognized by espn.com as a top 10 'workout warrior'.

http://scoutsnotebook.com/blog/blog/2010/09/09/lt-marcus-cannon-tcu/

The more I read about Cannon, the more I think he might be worth a first rounder. He may be this year's Iupati.

D-Unit
09-21-2010, 01:31 PM
Our team still can't create turnovers.

We should be drafting high enough that Rahim Moore is within our reach. We need him.

Macarthur
09-21-2010, 01:47 PM
I would like Moore very much.

MetSox17
09-21-2010, 02:08 PM
Yea, I don't see him making it out of the top 20 at all, but with that said:


http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/07/36/14/image_7714367.jpg


Chykie Brown may be a much better choice for us.


I'm on record as saying I like him more then Aaron Williams personally, but I usually hype up 1 Longhorn per year, Orakpo, Earl Thomas, and he's my guy this year. I think we can get him in the 2nd-3rd rd depending on the type of year he has, but he has tools to end up much better then Williams. Physically and athletically he's the better DB, he just makes some mental lapses in games, going for big plays etc, but he could very easily sneak into the late 1st round with a solid year.


But I think he's someone we could target in round 2 and develop into a very fine starter opposite Jenkins. I still have hope for AOA as a future at FS to be honest, so right now I like the idea of Mike Pouncey in rd 1, and Chykie Brown in rd 2, at least before CFB season starts.

Holy **** LL you couldn't be any more wrong here. Chykie Brown is absolute trash, he was average last season and this year he's getting beat like a dirty rug game in and game out. He has terrible man to man coverage skills, and can't play a ball in the air if his life depended on it. He's physically talented, but he is not skilled at all. There is absolutely no way he will be better than Aaron Williams, who's a top ten talent.

Unless you were looking at the wrong C.Brown, and meant Curtis Brown, who really is a good player, and is lightyears better than Chykie.

thule
09-21-2010, 09:33 PM
Our team still can't create turnovers.

We should be drafting high enough that Rahim Moore is within our reach. We need him.

Moore hasn't shown to be nearly the ball hawk he was last year. Why him over the other top rated safety prospects this year...and don't say because he's from the Pac-10 you homer ;-)

Crimson79
09-22-2010, 09:36 AM
Where in the 1st round do you guys see Dallas picking right now?

Also anyone know how many picks we have?

D-Unit
09-22-2010, 11:21 AM
Moore hasn't shown to be nearly the ball hawk he was last year. Why him over the other top rated safety prospects this year...and don't say because he's from the Pac-10 you homer ;-)
Well he had an interception last Saturday, but you sound like you've been watching him a lot. I can't say that I have seen much other than that Houston game. It's 2 games into the season and you already think he's different from last year? I'm calling you out. You're just spitting out words outta your mouth with that statement.

I haven't seen McDaniels yet this year. But I know he's universally listed as the top S this year, so I'm interested to follow him.

If Moore doesn't show the same ball skills as last year, then I'll adjust my opinion accordingly.

Macarthur
09-22-2010, 11:34 AM
As I posted on the other thread, Brian Broadus gave his analysis of the game film yesterday, and again, we had poor safety play. Our defense will never 'take the next step' with the type of safety play we've been getting the last several years.

LonghornsLegend
09-22-2010, 12:09 PM
Holy **** LL you couldn't be any more wrong here. Chykie Brown is absolute trash, he was average last season and this year he's getting beat like a dirty rug game in and game out. He has terrible man to man coverage skills, and can't play a ball in the air if his life depended on it. He's physically talented, but he is not skilled at all. There is absolutely no way he will be better than Aaron Williams, who's a top ten talent.

Unless you were looking at the wrong C.Brown, and meant Curtis Brown, who really is a good player, and is lightyears better than Chykie.


Lol I know the difference between Curtis and Chykie Brown it's not a new team to me or anything. And I stand by my comments while disagreeing completely with yours.


He's not anywhere near as bad as you make it seem because I've read numerous scouting reports from the end of last year, up to this month that have all three guys with a very solid chance to go in the 1st round. Chykie has been the most impressive corner to be personally, and I'll stand by those comments until I see something that shows me otherwise.

Macarthur
09-22-2010, 01:19 PM
I'm just really skeptical of all of UT's players coming into the draft. They just don't have a good track record of being ready.

D-Unit
09-22-2010, 01:52 PM
As I posted on the other thread, Brian Broadus gave his analysis of the game film yesterday, and again, we had poor safety play. Our defense will never 'take the next step' with the type of safety play we've been getting the last several years.
Don't need someone to post it on a blog to know that our Safeties suck and that we won't take the next step until we fix that... but maybe Jerry will read it and that will open up his eyes. I can only hope.

You all know I've not been a fan of Sensabaugh. I am very hopeful of AOA, but realistically we're 2-3 years away from knowing. Michael Hamlin is a disappointment and I don't have much faith that he'll ever be more than a backup... if he can even stick as a backup. I see him following the Pat Watkins path. I agree that Jerry missed the ball when he failed to bring in Atogwe.

I'm just sick of having to talk about Safeties year after year, only to see us pass up on the elite talent and hoping to find a diamond out of a lump of coal. I'm tired of having a secondary that doesn't create turnovers. Jenkins is our only playmaker.

D-Unit
09-22-2010, 01:55 PM
I'm just really skeptical of all of UT's players coming into the draft. They just don't have a good track record of being ready.
Yeah, people generally love them as prospects and overrate them, but in the NFL... they frequently fizzle. It's really hit or miss. Most times it's the ones drafted outside of Round 1 that turn out to be better players. To the point that I'd rather have a Longhorns player if they are not being talked about as 1st rounders.

Macarthur
09-22-2010, 02:08 PM
I'm with you.

I think we need to try everything we can to get a difference maker at safety this year, assuming there is one.

I think we have to address the interior OL after that. If we could come out of the first 2 rounds with some combination of Moore, D. Williams, McDaniel, Wisnewski, Pouncy Cannon and Ijlana - I think we would be in good shape.

MetSox17
09-22-2010, 04:30 PM
Lol I know the difference between Curtis and Chykie Brown it's not a new team to me or anything. And I stand by my comments while disagreeing completely with yours.


He's not anywhere near as bad as you make it seem because I've read numerous scouting reports from the end of last year, up to this month that have all three guys with a very solid chance to go in the 1st round. Chykie has been the most impressive corner to be personally, and I'll stand by those comments until I see something that shows me otherwise.

My bad, i wasn't trying to sound like i was insulting your knowledge of the team, i was just completely baffled that you rate Chykie so highly.

Have you been watching him this season? What about him has impressed you so much that you rate him higher than arguably the best CB in CFB? He has played pretty badly, and last year he wasn't very good either. Aaron Williams blankets everyone he's on, and has playmaking ability. Curtis Brown is another guy that's shutting WRs out, again, completely better than Chykie is.

LonghornsLegend
09-22-2010, 05:17 PM
I'm just really skeptical of all of UT's players coming into the draft. They just don't have a good track record of being ready.

UT has hits and misses just like any other school that produces a ton of talent. When you have as many high touted recruits as Texas does your gonna have alot of players drafted, so it's different then with a smaller College that may not have as many sought after prospects so when one comes along he ends up really good.


I could list a ton of bust for UT, but I could double that list for you with All Pro's and Pro Bowlers and guys you would love to have on your team. Same for USC, same for Florida, same for Penn St. and Ohio St. It just doesn't make sense to knock a guy because of what school he came from, you have to grade out a guy on his own basis.


Just like alot of people wanted to be lazy and knock Percy Harvin because he was a Florida WR, or say any USC player is lazy and unprepared when Mathews and Cushing are two of the best young LB's in the game right now.


Earl Thomas, Brian Orakpo, Jermichael Finley are 3 of the most recent UT players who came out and came out early and will all 3 be top 5 at their positions in 3 years IMO. If you just looked at them without trying to see if they could play or not, and just said you didn't want them because of what school they went to, you missed out.




I'm tired of having a secondary that doesn't create turnovers. Jenkins is our only playmaker.

Agreed 200%, it really pisses me off.




My bad, i wasn't trying to sound like i was insulting your knowledge of the team, i was just completely baffled that you rate Chykie so highly.

Have you been watching him this season? What about him has impressed you so much that you rate him higher than arguably the best CB in CFB? He has played pretty badly, and last year he wasn't very good either. Aaron Williams blankets everyone he's on, and has playmaking ability. Curtis Brown is another guy that's shutting WRs out, again, completely better than Chykie is.



I don't know why, again I've read from countless sites that Chykie Brown is a fringe 1st rounder, and at worst a 3rd rounder. I didn't even find this info out until a few weeks ago when everytime an Aaron Williams post/thread came up I said maybe I was crazy but the most impressive UT corner for me was Chykie Brown. So I did some research and read that alot of scouts were just as high on him as the other two guys.


I don't still have those sites, I can try and look for them or any other scouting reports, but everytime I watched Chykie impressed me the most. He's got really long arms and can knock passes down with ease, he's got great size and can run with WR's step for step, physical, has all the tools you want to see in a #1 CB, biggest problems I've seen is that he's not nearly as consistent in his play as Aaron Williams.


But hey I'm not knocking who is a better prospect or anything, but Chykie Brown has always just looked better to me in the games I've seen and while I'm inclined to change that opinion over the course of the season when I watch more games(which I have said in other threads, that this is now and I still want to see more of all 3 and rank them again after the year).


I don't mind being called crazy, just no point in me being a sheep and saying I like Aaron Williams more because everyone else does and he's the better prospect if that's not how I really feel.

crisco0710
09-26-2010, 01:07 PM
After another week of watching Longhorn football, Chykie Browns play wasn't very good and Aaron Williams was causing fumbles and seemed to have his name called all game. Chykie also gave up the an easy 3rd down hitch towards the end of the game where he looked clueless.

D-Unit
09-29-2010, 03:04 PM
These are some of the best guys to keep your eyes on this year. I bolded the ones I have a personal preference to. You might notice that I'm not on McDaniel's jock strap like everyone else. Just like I wasn't with Eric Berry and William Moore the year before.

--- SENIORS ---

DeAndre McDaniel, 6-0, 215 - Clemson - Projected Round: 1

Quinton Carter, 6-1, 195 - Oklahoma - Projected Round: 2

Deunta Williams, 6-1, 210 - UNC - Projected Round: 2/3

Jeron Johnson, 5-10, 195 - Boise St - Projected Round: 2/3

Jaiquan Jarrett, 6-0, 197 - Temple - Projected Round: 3

--- JUNIORS ---

Rahim Moore, 6-1, 195 - UCLA - Projected Round: 1

Robert Sands, 6-4, 221 - West Virginia - Projected Round: 2

Mark Barron, 6-2, 210 - Alabama - Projected Round: 2

pocketaces
09-29-2010, 03:23 PM
These are some of the best guys to keep your eyes on this year. I bolded the ones I have a personal preference to. You might notice that I'm not on McDaniel's jock strap like everyone else. Just like I wasn't with Eric Berry and William Moore the year before.

--- SENIORS ---

DeAndre McDaniel, 6-0, 215 - Clemson - Projected Round: 1

Quinton Carter, 6-1, 195 - Oklahoma - Projected Round: 2

Deunta Williams, 6-1, 210 - UNC - Projected Round: 2/3

Jeron Johnson, 5-10, 195 - Boise St - Projected Round: 2/3

Jaiquan Jarrett, 6-0, 197 - Temple - Projected Round: 3

--- JUNIORS ---

Rahim Moore, 6-1, 195 - UCLA - Projected Round: 1

Robert Sands, 6-4, 221 - West Virginia - Projected Round: 2

Mark Barron, 6-2, 210 - Alabama - Projected Round: 2

Quinton Carter SUCKS!!!!! Take it from a OU fan.

D-Unit
09-29-2010, 03:32 PM
Quinton Carter SUCKS!!!!! Take it from a OU fan.
OK, I will. :D

So who watched the Texas/UCLA game? Anyone take note of Rahim Moore?

crisco0710
09-29-2010, 08:26 PM
I don't remember Moore making too many plays or hearing his name called and I kept getting confused with which one he was. Now, Ayers on the other hand, wow that dude had a hell of a game. He is going to make a team real happy next year.

Macarthur
09-30-2010, 08:51 AM
I did try to pay attention to Moore. He wasn't involved much, but I think that was a product of UT sucking and UCLA controlling the clock.

xxxxxxxx
10-01-2010, 09:58 AM
The safety want may not be in this class, unfortunetly. In that case, C/OG all day. If jerry rejects it this year, we might just have to accept that it isn't happening. Ever.

D-Unit
10-04-2010, 06:27 PM
Round 1 - DT Marcell Dareus, Alabama (6'3, 318 )
I've been wanting an upgrade at DE for too long now. I don't think it's our number 1 need, but I think Dareus is a complete stud and he's my #1 3-4 DE prospect in the draft.

Round 2 - OT James Brewer, Indiana (6'8, 339)
Nobody is talking about this guy yet, but they will. He is a mammoth OL and projects as a RT in the NFL. He plays with a high intensity level and is finally playing well after dealing with injuries. Addressing OT in FA is way too costly, so I suspect the draft would be a good option here starting from Round 2 because we all know Round 1 isn't going to be something Jerry uses his first rounder on.

Round 3 - S Jeron Johnson, Boise St (5'10, 195)
His stock is all over the board. No one is talking about him as a 1st rounder, but I have seen him being ranking in the 5th-6th round range which I think is too low right now. He's considered a little undersized, but I like the way he flies around the field.

Round 4 - OG/C Steve Schilling, Michigan (6'5, 304)
Schilling is a co-captain of the Wolverines this year. He's moved to OG after playing C. This is exactly the kind of versatility that we need. Fixing the OL is imperative this year, so spending 2 out of our first 4 picks on the OL would be a welcomed thing.

Macarthur
10-05-2010, 09:04 AM
I would like that draft. I don't know much about Schilling yet, but my question would be is he a pure center? I think we need a pure center.

D-Unit
10-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Round 1 - DeAndre McDaniel, S Clemson
I really don't like mocking us with OL in the first round. It goes against every fiber of my being because I know Jerry won't do it. If I did, I'd be giving us Derrick Sherrod here because he's a beast and we need someone badly because Columbo is D-O-N-E, DONE. But I will go with a guy who I think would fancy Jerry more. We need stops in our deep secondary and the Tennessee game exploited that in the worst way. McDaniel is not having the greatest start to the season, and I don't even believe in him 100%, but we have to stop the bleeding and he's the consensus top guy.

Round 2 - Gabe Carimi, OT Wisconsin
Carimi was once considered a sure fire first rounder, but has seen his stock drop some as his game has become over analyzed. His knocks are that he is not seen as athletically gifted as some of the other tackle prospects and is not considered an ideal candidate at LT. That's great for us as Free is our LT for the next decade. Carimi at RT for the next decade sounds like a great bookend tandem. He may not be the classic blue chipper, but he still comes from great breeding grounds as Wisconsin has been an awesome pipeline for NFL offensive linemen.

Round 3 - Kendrick Ellis, DT Hampton
Hampton is 6'5", 340 pounds, but he is much more suited to line up as a 3-4 DE than NT in the pros. For one, he has a strong penetrating attack mentality, and two, he doesn't play at a low enough pad level critical to succeeding in the middle. Needless to say he's tearing up the lower level competition like a man amongst boys, and it's at such an eye popping rate that his value here is more than justified. He could be a high riser as the draft approaches.

Round 4 - John Moffitt, OG Wisconsin
If we got both Carimi and Moffitt, the chemistry would be instant and that would be advantageous for us if we plan to play them right away. Moffitt will make some team happy for drafting him. He's one of those guys that will play in the NFL for a very long time. Now all we need to do is draft John Clay in 2012! :)

thule
10-11-2010, 11:55 PM
McDaniel has a nfl body...but he has been burned badly multiple times this year...he's a tough guy to grade. I like him and think he can be a stud...but I'm not sold on him yet either.

Macarthur
10-12-2010, 11:16 AM
Round 1 - DeAndre McDaniel, S Clemson
I really don't like mocking us with OL in the first round. It goes against every fiber of my being because I know Jerry won't do it. If I did, I'd be giving us Derrick Sherrod here because he's a beast and we need someone badly because Columbo is D-O-N-E, DONE. But I will go with a guy who I think would fancy Jerry more. We need stops in our deep secondary and the Tennessee game exploited that in the worst way. McDaniel is not having the greatest start to the season, and I don't even believe in him 100%, but we have to stop the bleeding and he's the consensus top guy.

Round 2 - Gabe Carimi, OT Wisconsin
Carimi was once considered a sure fire first rounder, but has seen his stock drop some as his game has become over analyzed. His knocks are that he is not seen as athletically gifted as some of the other tackle prospects and is not considered an ideal candidate at LT. That's great for us as Free is our LT for the next decade. Carimi at RT for the next decade sounds like a great bookend tandem. He may not be the classic blue chipper, but he still comes from great breeding grounds as Wisconsin has been an awesome pipeline for NFL offensive linemen.

Round 3 - Kendrick Ellis, DT Hampton
Hampton is 6'5", 340 pounds, but he is much more suited to line up as a 3-4 DE than NT in the pros. For one, he has a strong penetrating attack mentality, and two, he doesn't play at a low enough pad level critical to succeeding in the middle. Needless to say he's tearing up the lower level competition like a man amongst boys, and it's at such an eye popping rate that his value here is more than justified. He could be a high riser as the draft approaches.

Round 4 - John Moffitt, OG Wisconsin
If we got both Carimi and Moffitt, the chemistry would be instant and that would be advantageous for us if we plan to play them right away. Moffitt will make some team happy for drafting him. He's one of those guys that will play in the NFL for a very long time. Now all we need to do is draft John Clay in 2012! :)

You like McDaniel better than Moore?

Otherwise, I think this would be a a very good start. In fact, I would love to try and land Mankins and roll with

Free
Mankins
Geroude - delay replacement one more year
Moffitt
Carimi

Crimson79
10-12-2010, 12:53 PM
We are going to be picking to early in the 1st round for a safety. That is unless there is an elite safety out there I haven't heard about yet.

Positions I would be happy to get some help at would be
Anywhere along the OL besides LT.
DE
CB
S

Since it is unlikely we go OL in the first, and I don't like the value of safety where I think we will be picking I am gonna go with corner.

Aaron Williams-Newman wont be around a whole lot longer, and Scandrick is definitely not a guy I want starting.

Macarthur
10-12-2010, 01:07 PM
Sure would be nice if we started to hear some things as the year goes by that AOA is starting adjust and look good in practice. He would be nice to have at safety next year.

D-Unit
10-12-2010, 01:12 PM
You like McDaniel better than Moore?

Otherwise, I think this would be a a very good start. In fact, I would love to try and land Mankins and roll with

Free
Mankins
Geroude - delay replacement one more year
Moffitt
Carimi
I don't know who Moore is actually. I like Mark Barron more though. This was more of just an exercise than a favorites kind of thing. I think Deunta Williams and Jeron Johnson will be in the conversation down the line. Deunta has been talked about as a 2nd rounder and Jeron as a 3rd. Scott has Jeron ranked higher than anyone I've seen so far. I like that. Can't wait to get a really good look at Jeron when Hawaii plays Boise.

D-Unit
10-12-2010, 01:14 PM
Sure would be nice if we started to hear some things as the year goes by that AOA is starting adjust and look good in practice. He would be nice to have at safety next year.
I'm really ready to get him immediate playing time. The guys we have now are just invisible. He can't be any worse.

Even if he did pan out though, we'd still need another Safety.

D-Unit
10-12-2010, 01:17 PM
We are going to be picking to early in the 1st round for a safety. That is unless there is an elite safety out there I haven't heard about yet.

Positions I would be happy to get some help at would be
Anywhere along the OL besides LT.
DE
CB
S

Since it is unlikely we go OL in the first, and I don't like the value of safety where I think we will be picking I am gonna go with corner.

Aaron Williams-Newman wont be around a whole lot longer, and Scandrick is definitely not a guy I want starting.
I agree that we need to boost our cornerback position. I don't know if it's a first round need though. We have panic areas elsewhere. Newman hasn't been bad this year. But the good thing is that we should have a pretty deep CB class this year, so maybe we can address it later.

Macarthur
10-12-2010, 01:34 PM
I don't know who Moore is actually. I like Mark Barron more though. This was more of just an exercise than a favorites kind of thing. I think Deunta Williams and Jeron Johnson will be in the conversation down the line. Deunta has been talked about as a 2nd rounder and Jeron as a 3rd. Scott has Jeron ranked higher than anyone I've seen so far. I like that. Can't wait to get a really good look at Jeron when Hawaii plays Boise.

Rahim Moore?

D-Unit
10-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Rahim Moore?
Oh yeah!


You know... about that guy... I'm starting to reneg on him. He's just too finesse for my liking in a safety. Even if he is a ballhawk... I don't know. I'm not sold yet. He's frail and doesn't like to mix it up. As a run supporter, just forget about it. NFL backs will lay him out.

If AOA works for us it will be at FS. So I have my eye out for SS types who can lay the lumber, attack on blitzes and seal the deep secondary without being a liability. For me, that guy right now is Mark Barron.

thule
10-12-2010, 04:28 PM
Oh yeah!


You know... about that guy... I'm starting to reneg on him. He's just too finesse for my liking in a safety. Even if he is a ballhawk... I don't know. I'm not sold yet. He's frail and doesn't like to mix it up. As a run supporter, just forget about it. NFL backs will lay him out.

If AOA works for us it will be at FS. So I have my eye out for SS types who can lay the lumber, attack on blitzes and seal the deep secondary without being a liability. For me, that guy right now is Mark Barron.

The thing that confuses me with AOA is that is he really going to excel as a center fielder. I always had the thought that he excelled in man coverage...atleast thats the vibe I got listening to all the post-season hype on him last year. Now he has a nice build...I almost wonder if he wouldn't play the strong in Wades scheme because Sensy is almost exclusively in man coverage with TE's and running backs and thats what aoa is suppose to excell at. But that said when we go into our dime package currently Ball rolls down to be the dime back....ahhhh I'm just not sure what goes on back there.

D-Unit
10-28-2010, 01:52 PM
This is sad, but fun at the same time.

This is my first Cowboys Big Board where I don't have to eliminate names who I think won't reach us. :(

1. DB Patrick Peterson
2. DE Nick Fairley
3. DE Adrian Clayborn
4. CB Prince Amukamara
5. DE Marcell Dareus
6. CB Brandon Harris
7. DE Allen Bailey
8. CB Aaron Williams
9. CB Janoris Jenkins
10. Trade Down

TheFinisher
10-28-2010, 05:52 PM
wow imagine this...

We wind up with the #9 or so pick. Both corners are off the board, Ingram has a lot of hype going into draft day. Jerry sees Dez as Michael, and sees Ingram as the next Emmitt, so we take him. Then we grab our Troy in 2012, who just so decided to stay an extr year....

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/San+Jose+State+v+Stanford+BAtFiJUWsRsl.jpg

Just sayin...

Morton
10-28-2010, 06:13 PM
wow imagine this...

We wind up with the #9 or so pick. Both corners are off the board, Ingram has a lot of hype going into draft day. Jerry sees Dez as Michael, and sees Ingram as the next Emmitt, so we take him. Then we grab our Troy in 2012, who just so decided to stay an extr year....


Except that, you know, the QB usually takes the longest to mature, so you might want to start out picking him before the RB.

And wasn't Felix Jones supposed to be the new Emmitt?

xxxxxxxx
10-28-2010, 06:16 PM
Dude stop trolling and go away.

D-Unit
10-29-2010, 01:47 AM
I'm personally not a fan of Andrew Luck. Doesn't mean he won't be good. I thought Matt Ryan was gonna fail.

MetSox17
10-29-2010, 06:20 PM
I'm a big fan of Andrew Luck, but if he stays, we'd need the first overall pick to get him, which would never ever happen. Next year we're in contention again with a better o-line and a healthy Romo.

M.O.T.H.
10-29-2010, 06:54 PM
ugh. We dont need a QB. lol.

D-Unit
10-29-2010, 07:20 PM
ugh. We dont need a QB. lol.
Keep preachin' moth. These guys don't get it.

MetSox17
10-29-2010, 07:34 PM
Lol someone brought up Luck and i just stated that even if we did want a QB, we wouldn't be able to get him. i <3 romo as much as anyone.

LizardState
10-29-2010, 09:49 PM
So they dump Newman so they don't have to pay him, draft a rookie corner #1 & throw him to the wolves, & the other veteran corner is Jenkins? Something is very wrong with that picture.

That's what NE usually does with its veteran in their back-loaded contracts, I thought that it's Dallas & not NE. The Patriots are usually loaded with extra picks & in a position to wheel & deal, Dallas moves around a lot on draft day but never in the enviable NE position of controlling the 1st 2 rds.

Any way you analyze it Dallas will have to keep one starting corner from this season, & on performance alone it's Newman by a mile.

TheFinisher
10-30-2010, 03:46 PM
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/amesaction004.jpg

Just curious to see what everyone's thoughts were on Sash. He's a guy that could declare this year and, depending on how he tests, should be around for our 3rd rounder.

Everything I've heard about him reminds me of a lot of what we heard about Sean Lee pre-draft; instrinctive, intelligent, leadership, work ethic.... all things that we could use on this team. He's got a good nose for the football and always seems to make the big play for Iowa when they need it. I think he's worth looking into as a 3rd rounder. What do you guys think?

E-Man
10-31-2010, 03:27 PM
Not that I wasn't wanting the guy before, but I'm really on the Peterson bandwagon now. It looks like there will be a real chance to get him, and the D desperately needs a guy like him in that secondary. Jerry needs to do whatever to make it happen like he did with Dez.

xxxxxxxx
10-31-2010, 03:27 PM
Peterson needs to be the guy. Prince isn't bad either.

chrlopez1
11-03-2010, 12:17 AM
I usually only comment regarding the draft so here I go with my first comment for the 2011 draft.

I think as much as I hate it...we can trade down. We are going to do what JJ likes best and that is trade down. I think we can end up with a lower pick as well as another pick in the 2. I think we can get a CB and maybe even a DE with our first two picks. If we stay put we can get the 1 OL, but I think we can drop to the early teens and still get that one. I would love a CB, DE and OT with the first two picks. There are a lot of QB and of course a few WR and RB that will push OL and DE down.

I like the DE from Ohio State.................

I also would not mind a ILB...............................

PATRICK PETERSON, CB, L.S.U. I like
MARCELL DAREUS, DT, ALABAMA I like
PRINCE AMUKAMARA, CB, NEBRASKA I like
ROBERT QUINN, DE, NORTH CAROLINA not enamored
NTHONY CASTONZO, OT, BOSTON COLLEGE I like
ALLEN BAILEY, DE, MIAMI (FL) I like
CAMERON HEYWARD, DE, OHIO ST I like
STEFEN WISNIEWSKI, C, PENN ST i like
MARK BARRON, S, ALABAMA Ok
Deunta Williams S North Carolina I like

So those are my guys....plus I am sure we might trade down and get one of these guys will the possiblity of getting two.

pocketaces
11-04-2010, 05:36 PM
WalterFootball.com is a great site for all things football.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php

Heres his draft for us.

2. Dallas Cowboys: Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
Cornerbacks are seldom taken in the top three, but then again, we said the same thing about defensive tackles prior to the 2010 NFL Draft. Like Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy, Patrick Peterson is a special sort of talent that doesn't come around very often.

The Cowboys have issues in their secondary. Mike Jenkins has been often penalized this year, while Terence Newman will be 33 heading into the 2011 NFL season. Peterson would infinitely improve Dallas' defense by erasing one side of the field.

35. Dallas Cowboys: Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina
New free safety Alan Ball hasn't been a liability thus far, but he hasn't been anything special either. The Cowboys could stand to upgrade this position unless they want receivers like Mike Sims-Walker burning them deep multiple times per game.

66. Dallas Cowboys: Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Some help for Dallas' front line; Kyle Kosier will be a free agent this March.

What do ya'll think? Looks good to me!!

xxxxxxxx
11-04-2010, 06:17 PM
That would be a SEX draft.

LizardState
11-04-2010, 06:57 PM
pocket-- Good draft.

I'd be happy with Peterson &/or Deunta Williams. Scandrick & Sensabaugh should hit the road.

66. Dallas Cowboys: Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Some help for Dallas' front line; Kyle Kosier will be a free agent this March.

He's listed as an OT in Phil Steele's mag, hopefully he can play either spot.

D-Unit
11-04-2010, 07:15 PM
pocket-- Good draft.

I'd be happy with Peterson &/or Deunta Williams. Scandrick & Sensabaugh should hit the road.



He's listed as an OT in Phil Steele's mag, hopefully he can play either spot.
I personally do think that he can play RT. I just wonder if he'll still be available.

D-Unit
11-04-2010, 07:16 PM
That would be a SEX draft.
I agree, I'd be so happy on draft day if that happened.

E-Man
11-04-2010, 07:46 PM
Alan Ball not a liability? Bwahahahahaha! Ball is so horrendous. It's like having nobody back there right now.

I'd love that draft though, but it seems too low for Gannon. He's being looked at both guard and tackle, so I think he'll come off the board early in the second. He fits the mold of lineman needed here so much that I would be ecstatic to get him.

TheFinisher
11-05-2010, 08:44 AM
wow that draft is too good to be true haha

I honestly think if we wanted Cannon we would have to take him with our 2nd, no way he lasts til the 3rd IMO.

How would you guys like a combination of

1.Peterson
2. Cannon
3. Barron

That's what I've been pulling for and is a little more realistic that the mock Pocket posted, not that I wouldn't love that to happen:-D

xxxxxxxx
11-05-2010, 09:49 AM
Honestly, I'm not ready to give up on scandrick. Maybe the guy just needs new coaches. He oozes talent, and his rookie year he was playing at a pro-bowl level. June Jones said himself he would be our best pick of the draft.

If/when we get knew coaches next year, i'll be paying close attention to scandrick.

D-Unit
11-05-2010, 11:42 AM
wow that draft is too good to be true haha

I honestly think if we wanted Cannon we would have to take him with our 2nd, no way he lasts til the 3rd IMO.

How would you guys like a combination of

1.Peterson
2. Cannon
3. Barron

That's what I've been pulling for and is a little more realistic that the mock Pocket posted, not that I wouldn't love that to happen:-D
I would love that too. But I think Barron goes before we have a chance in the 3rd. He's arguably the best Safety in the draft.

E-Man
11-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Honestly, I'm not ready to give up on scandrick. Maybe the guy just needs new coaches. He oozes talent, and his rookie year he was playing at a pro-bowl level. June Jones said himself he would be our best pick of the draft.

If/when we get knew coaches next year, i'll be paying close attention to scandrick.

Whatever it is, he's not a good player anymore. Maybe he responded poorly to losing out on the starting job against Jenkins, but I doubt he'll ever turn the corner. If they kept him around as a fourth guy it wouldn't be so bad because he has in game experience, but I would imagine that his attitude is one that needs to get thrown out in order to change the makeup of the team.

Who knows what the issue is though? Whatever reason, he's playing very terrible right now and there needs to be a serious change.

D-Unit
11-05-2010, 12:58 PM
I think that our safeties are SOOO bad that it's really hard to correctly judge our corners. Jenkins has looked equally as bad as Scandrick... or close to it. I'm not ready to write him off.

M.O.T.H.
11-05-2010, 01:24 PM
Honestly, I'm not ready to give up on scandrick. Maybe the guy just needs new coaches. He oozes talent, and his rookie year he was playing at a pro-bowl level. June Jones said himself he would be our best pick of the draft.

If/when we get knew coaches next year, i'll be paying close attention to scandrick.

I wouldnt take June Jones' word as some kind of gospel. He hasnt really had a lot of pro quality players, himself. Every decent player he runs into, probably looks godly to him.

And they wont give up on Scandrick yet...but he's been absolutely awful for two years in a row now.

LonghornsLegend
11-05-2010, 02:17 PM
WalterFootball.com is a great site for all things football.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php

Heres his draft for us.

2. Dallas Cowboys: Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
Cornerbacks are seldom taken in the top three, but then again, we said the same thing about defensive tackles prior to the 2010 NFL Draft. Like Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy, Patrick Peterson is a special sort of talent that doesn't come around very often.

The Cowboys have issues in their secondary. Mike Jenkins has been often penalized this year, while Terence Newman will be 33 heading into the 2011 NFL season. Peterson would infinitely improve Dallas' defense by erasing one side of the field.

35. Dallas Cowboys: Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina
New free safety Alan Ball hasn't been a liability thus far, but he hasn't been anything special either. The Cowboys could stand to upgrade this position unless they want receivers like Mike Sims-Walker burning them deep multiple times per game.

66. Dallas Cowboys: Marcus Cannon, G, TCU
Some help for Dallas' front line; Kyle Kosier will be a free agent this March.

What do ya'll think? Looks good to me!!



Wow, I would be oozing excitement if that happened. Then maybe we can get a few solid FA signings, maybe another Guard and one more Safety.


Actually now that I thinka bout it, we would almost HAVE to get an ILB in FA, and probably mid round of the draft. I need 2 look and see who is available to be a FA.

xxxxxxxx
11-05-2010, 02:23 PM
thank you D, I'm not giving up on him yet. he's a good player.

LonghornsLegend
11-05-2010, 02:29 PM
I don't think anyone wants to "give up" on Scandrick, when you give up on a guy he gets cut. That shouldn't happen, but I'll be damned if he should still be starting in the Nickle just because he had a good rookie season, the NFL doesn't work that way. He needs to be the 4th or 5th CB, and work his way up. I would love PP and another corner to push Scandrick, absolutely no reason for him to be starting, so let's give him another year to see if he gets it together because he's probably been the worst player of any Cowboy this season.

bigbluedefense
11-05-2010, 04:06 PM
Thoughts on Allen Bailey?

xxxxxxxx
11-05-2010, 04:42 PM
I'd be fine with any of the DE's Frailey, Bailey, or Clayborn, and CB's Prince and Peterson.

I don't see any other pick that makes sense since there are no o-lineman. Assuming we have a top 5-10 pick unless kitna goes into God-mode lol.

EDIT: Inside linebacker could've been a darkhorse, but just like o-line there is no prospect worth even a top 15 pick.

It's CB or DE, or trade down in my opinion. I don't see any other way.

D-Unit
11-05-2010, 05:39 PM
thank you D, I'm not giving up on him yet. he's a good player.
I don't know if he's a good player. I just think he's hard to judge considering the absentee safeties we have.

D-Unit
11-05-2010, 05:42 PM
Thoughts on Allen Bailey?
Extremely high potential. Makes plays that make you go wow, but also tends to go invisible at times too. Needs to learn how to better disengage from blockers. His technique needs to be coached up. I don't think he maximizes his weight room strength to game strength. If he had a stronger base, he'd be a Top 15 pick. Right now I see him as a late first/early second guy. If the Giants get him... dayum.

chrlopez1
11-06-2010, 01:15 AM
I don't think drafting a DE this high would make sense. I think we can pick one up at the top of Round 2. I do think we need to make or take an impact top 5 players if we can. At the same time...we could trade down a bit and still pick a top CB in the top Top 10. I think teams will shy away from a CB in the Top 5..somebody will want to move up to get a QB.......

xxxxxxxx
11-06-2010, 10:50 AM
Our game vs. the Lions in 3 weeks could be the Patrick Peterson bowl..

Who would'a thunk it?!

romo4prez415
11-06-2010, 12:56 PM
I actually think we have the best shot of having the #1 pick. Buffalo is playing good football just losing to tough opponents. There going to win more games than us. I dont see us winning another game based on our schedule. If we lose out I dont see Jerry asking Romo to return and risk another injury for nothing. The question then becomes if Andrew Luck is on the board do you pass on him. I know I dont I always believe in taking the best player especially at the top of the draft and Andrew Luck is the best qb prospect in the last 10 years. He's got it all.

D-Unit
11-06-2010, 01:02 PM
I actually think we have the best shot of having the #1 pick. Buffalo is playing good football just losing to tough opponents. There going to win more games than us. I dont see us winning another game based on our schedule. If we lose out I dont see Jerry asking Romo to return and risk another injury for nothing. The question then becomes if Andrew Luck is on the board do you pass on him. I know I dont I always believe in taking the best player especially at the top of the draft and Andrew Luck is the best qb prospect in the last 10 years. He's got it all.
We don't want to have the #1 pick. You can't even trade out of it and get good value. I don't want to give $60M to someone with that pick.

...and as for Luck. I'm not a fan. That's not to say he won't be good. I just don't see an elite prospect in him.

pocketaces
11-06-2010, 01:09 PM
We don't want to have the #1 pick. You can't even trade out of it and get good value. I don't want to give $60M to someone with that pick.

...and as for Luck. I'm not a fan. That's not to say he won't be good. I just don't see an elite prospect in him.

This will probably change with the new bargaining agreement. Nobody wants to pay rookies that kind of money anymore.

D-Unit
11-06-2010, 03:49 PM
This will probably change with the new bargaining agreement. Nobody wants to pay rookies that kind of money anymore.
True. But Luck does nothing to improve this team.

bigbluedefense
11-06-2010, 03:58 PM
Extremely high potential. Makes plays that make you go wow, but also tends to go invisible at times too. Needs to learn how to better disengage from blockers. His technique needs to be coached up. I don't think he maximizes his weight room strength to game strength. If he had a stronger base, he'd be a Top 15 pick. Right now I see him as a late first/early second guy. If the Giants get him... dayum.

He kind of reminds me of JPP.

I doubt we get him, unless we'd try to convert him to UT, but even then, I don't think he'd be a good fit unless he can bulk up to 290 lbs.

xxxxxxxx
11-06-2010, 04:00 PM
Is runningback an option?

Edit: Ingram is an emmitt clone.

D-Unit
11-06-2010, 04:02 PM
Is runningback an option?

Edit: Ingram is an emmitt clone.
No, it isn't. Emmitt was Emmitt because of the OL.

pocketaces
11-06-2010, 04:06 PM
True. But Luck does nothing to improve this team.

No, I agree. Not debating the player, just the pick. #1 might not be as bad as it normally would be and might be easier to trade due to the rookie cap.

romo4prez415
11-06-2010, 04:14 PM
True. But Luck does nothing to improve this team.

Maybe not immediately but drafting for the immediate next year is what gets you in trouble and why we have no depth on the offensive line or why we dont have much depth throughout our roster. I take the best player overall. We had a hard time finding a qb after Troy left and I dont anticipate us picking here again. I take Luck and groom him for 2 years and trade Romo. And have a probowl caliber qb for the next 15 years. I think that highly of him as do many others. Here is what a scout said on Luck.

That #1 is unanimously Stanford’s Andrew Luck at this point. Luck was the subject of a long discussion about pedigree and coaching and how QBs benefit from those. His father was a NFL QB and he’s coached at Stanford by former NFL QB Jim Harbaugh--and it shows. “Intangibles” is a huge buzz word and I heard it at least 10 times in reference to what separates Luck from everyone else. The guy just has “it” to go with his enormous physical tool set.

As one scout noted, “He’s better than (Sam) Bradford, he’s better than (Matt) Stafford, he’s better than (Mark) Sanchez already. I’m talking he could start today over any of those guys on their teams.”

I disagree with that sentiment, but I share his bullishness on Luck. I will likely grade him out higher than any QB in the seven years I’ve scouted, and I won’t be alone in doing so.

Read more: http://football.realgm.com/src_feature/378/20101014/notes_from_the_scouting_trail/#ixzz14XVMTOGS

D-Unit
11-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Maybe not immediately but drafting the immediate next year is what gets you in trouble and why we have no depth on the offensive line. I take the best player overall. We had a hard time finding a qb after Troy left and I dont anticipate us picking here again. I take Luck and groom him for 2 years and trade Romo.
Well, I never thought Luck was the best player overall. He's mostly there because the QB position is so highly valued. The best overall player is Patrick Peterson.

romo4prez415
11-06-2010, 04:22 PM
Well, I never thought Luck was the best player overall. He's mostly there because the QB position is so highly valued. The best overall player is Patrick Peterson.

Check my post on what the scouts said. And I beg to differ. The true #1 type of WR he went up against in AJ Green he got lit up. His technique is only average as he relies on his athletcism too much.Terrific prospect but not as polished as you'd like for someone who has started 3 years out corner. The converted corner from running back Prince is much more polished than him and thats concerning for me (questions about ability to learn or work ethic for the marginal technique).

xxxxxxxx
11-06-2010, 04:36 PM
Dude Jerry Jones has put his cards in Romo. The kid is only 30, and he is still full of juice.

Were not taking a QB, bro.

thule
11-06-2010, 04:37 PM
Well he'll face Jones from alabama today...turn on your TV's and do some self-scouting!

On another note read up on some Bunting today and found two peices I like.

Small schooler is dominant
Watching the Villanova/Richmond matchup this weekend was fun on a couple levels because when you get these two teams together the overall talent level is good enough to definitely compete and even beat a fair amount of the FBS teams that are out there. But, from an NFL prospect type view, there is also one guy who is really starting to shine above the rest and that’s ‘Nova OG Benjamin Ijalana. Ijalana is a big, 6-4, 320-pound kid who can bend and block with leverage in the run game as well as sit into his stance and anchor vs. the pass. However, he really stood out on the move to me this weekend when asked to pull, get out to the second level as he absolutely demolished downhill attacking defenders with a compact punch and powerful leg drive. But, like any small-school prospect, he is raw, especially as a pass blocker and has a tendency to simply stand upright off the snap, extend his long arms and lock out. However, he’s a good enough athlete to certainly be a player in the NFL — I see him more as a guard — as he still has a lot of upside to his game. His athleticism, physical skill set and willingness to finish blocks and dominate are all NFL-worthy attributes and he looks like a dirty starter (year two starter) at the next level to me at this stage.

And talked about him last year
I’ve been on the Jaiquawn Jarrett bandwagon ever since I first saw the Temple safety as a sophomore back in 2008. At 6-0, 197 pounds, he plays with impressive body control and balance in his drop, is fluid when asked to get in and out of his breaks and does a really nice job playing the football in the deep half of the field. Overall, he looked liked one of the cleanest athletes in space in the safety class and showed enough to warrant a potential starter grade based off his summer tape. However, he looks to have improved his game even further this season answering two big questions I had about him coming into the year.

1. Can he improve as a tackler?
2. Can he improve his overall feel in zone coverage recognizing routes and getting earlier jumps on the football?

And so far up to this point the answer has been yes on both counts. He looks more physical attacking downhill in the run game, as he takes good angles, sees what he hits and has displayed a little more thump as a wrap-up guy. And when asked to play in zone, he’s doing a much better job feeling routes develop around him and quickly closing on the football. Now, the one knock on him is that he isn’t the most explosive of straight-line athletes and lacks idea make-up range, which is true, as he doesn’t look like a guy who will run in the low 4.4 range. However, I certainly think he is fast enough because of his ability to cleanly redirect and change directions to make plays

Nice developmental prospect and like Bunting probably my favorite safety prospect when I watch on the field.

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11-06-2010, 04:41 PM
Thule, are you on the Peterson bandwagon?

romo4prez415
11-06-2010, 04:46 PM
Dude Jerry Jones has put his cards in Romo. The kid is only 30, and he is still full of juice.

Were not taking a QB, bro.

I clearly understand. I'm just saying what I'd do. Of course an incompetent owner is going to trade down getting bad value or not take the best player and getting a lesser player in a top heavy draft. Romo will be 31 next season and is by no means an elite player. Top 10 but not elite. I think you draft Luck and then you get hands on coaching for this player and determine if he is a commodity or that makes Romo a commodity. I would rather take the best available player rather than be scared away because of some history of misses and find out we should have taken him in the first place. Because if this kid is the next Aikman as some say, we will have to watch that for years saying what if. You go with talent regardless of position or what you have on the team. If he is the hands down best player in the draft you pick him. Then sort it out. And my opinion is he's best qb prospect in the last 10 years so if he's on the board you take him.

romo4prez415
11-06-2010, 05:54 PM
I'm sorry. There is no way Peterson is the #1 prospect in the draft. After watching today. Still same bad technique. Prince is the better corner back Peterson is the better athlete.

thule
11-06-2010, 06:09 PM
Thule, are you on the Peterson bandwagon?

Is there anyone who isn't? This doesn't mean I think he is the best player in the draft or that I value him over Prince...but I don't think you could find one person on this board who isn't a fan of his. As far as Prince and Peterson rank imo they are 1a and 1b...can't go wrong with either.

xxxxxxxx
11-06-2010, 06:38 PM
I meant is that who you want if you have your choice of him, prince, any of the DE's, etc?

thule
11-06-2010, 06:47 PM
I meant is that who you want if you have your choice of him, prince, any of the DE's, etc?

Depends on where we are picking.

#1 pick in the draft I probably go Luck. I like Romo a lot...but no OT there is worth it and I like Luck a lot.

If i'm not a top 3 pick I look to move down. 5-tech's are everywhere in the top half of the draft should see a record of DE's go in the first round this year. IDK who I like the most...but I will say I think there are atleast 3 studs.

If Peterson is on the board and I can't trade down I think it's a no brainer.

xxxxxxxx
11-06-2010, 11:29 PM
So your content with giving up on Romo if we have #1 overall?

D-Unit
11-06-2010, 11:29 PM
Must haves: FS, SS, CB, OT, OGx2

Like to haves: DE, ILB, C

Nice to haves: K, NT

QB isn't even close to being on our list of needs. If we brought in a rookie QB, then we'd ruin him with the lack of a supporting cast. Young QBs who succeed have strong OLs and a strong Defense around them. We have neither. ...or did you have in mind that we'd store him on the bench until we had that? Ya right...when???

Lastly... we may be bad, but we ain't ending up with the #1 overall pick.

xxxxxxxx
11-06-2010, 11:31 PM
I honestly think a name coach, some free agent o-lineman, and peterson/prince puts this team back in the NFC Championship picture.

All of which are easily do-able.

D-Unit
11-06-2010, 11:33 PM
I honestly think a name coach, some free agent o-lineman, and peterson/prince puts this team back in the NFC Championship picture.

All of which are easily do-able.
I'm thinking along the same lines. OL, DB help is needed BADLY.

xxxxxxxx
11-06-2010, 11:43 PM
Not even being a homer here.

I honestly just think our defense needs a new scheme. All wade does is line us up and expect our "talent" to win. And like I've posted before, it doesn't. Get a defensive mind who will USE this talent instead of letting it sit like stagnant water, get some o-lineman in FA, and take the BPA at the top of each round, and we're right back up there.

romo4prez415
11-07-2010, 12:05 AM
Maybe we're overrating our talent. I keep hearing scheme yet Wade is one of the best 3-4 minds. We've tried 2 gap and now 1 gap maybe its not the scheme and maybe its the players. Crazy concept. I just dont see this overwhelming talent. We dont have a true NT, our ILBer play is horrendous in pass coverage, our safeties our terrible, and Ware is the only player consistently bringing a pass rush. I blame Wade for alot of things but scheme isnt one of them. If the players are too stupid to time there blitzes or disguise them, its on them.

D-Unit
11-07-2010, 12:21 AM
Maybe we're overrating our talent. I keep hearing scheme yet Wade is one of the best 3-4 minds. We've tried 2 gap and now 1 gap maybe its not the scheme and maybe its the players. Crazy concept. I just dont see this overwhelming talent. We dont have a true NT, our ILBer play is horrendous in pass coverage, our safeties our terrible, and Ware is the only player consistently bringing a pass rush. I blame Wade for alot of things but scheme isnt one of them. If the players are too stupid to time there blitzes or disguise them, its on them.
Right now, the players are also playing with a losing attitude. They've lost the fight in them, so if you wanna judge them right now, I wouldn't make rash personnel decisions.

I agree though. It's not the scheme. The scheme works. You can only mask your weaknesses up to a point. We've been exposed at Safety, and there's no one on the team that can help. Wade's scheme is fine, Wade's leadership and HC skills suck ass. Jerry's trust in our personnel and his failure to bring in quality FAs this past offseason are proving to be monumental mistakes. We didn't draft OL, we didn't sign OL... pa-thetic.

xxxxxxxx
11-07-2010, 12:46 AM
I don't agree with you guys on the scheme. Why does pretty much every team say how predictable we are. The Jags offense said our defense is basic as hell. Garrard looked like Montana in his prime. It may be partly the players giving up, but the defense is just such a vanilla joke now. We need a spark.

D-Unit
11-07-2010, 01:40 AM
I don't agree with you guys on the scheme. Why does pretty much every team say how predictable we are. The Jags offense said our defense is basic as hell. Garrard looked like Montana in his prime. It may be partly the players giving up, but the defense is just such a vanilla joke now. We need a spark.
Sounds more like play calling and toning down the defense to adjust to the weaknesses on defense. Not necessarily the scheme.

That said, I don't know enough of what's going on behind the scenes to make that assumption.

If the scheme was problematic, we would've never ever had success in it.... but we have had success in the past, so I'm not buying what you're preachin'.

xxxxxxxx
11-07-2010, 01:01 AM
We'll agree to disagree. When the Jaguars say that we are predictable....

Anyway, I am anxious for this game for some reason.. and i don't know why.

xxxxxxxx
11-07-2010, 01:42 AM
According to the draft blog on here, our scouts were at the clemson game.

They said DeAndre has coverage deficiencies, im not looking for a younger future roy williams/ ken hamlin.

romo4prez415
11-07-2010, 10:27 AM
According to the draft blog on here, our scouts were at the clemson game.

They said DeAndre has coverage deficiencies, im not looking for a younger future roy williams/ ken hamlin.

I think DeAndre is a strong safety. The safety I like is Deaunta Williams reminds me alot of Kenny Phillips when he came out. I think he could play both FS and SS.

D-Unit
11-07-2010, 11:42 AM
I'm starting to think the safety I like most is Patrick Peterson. lol.

xxxxxxxx
11-07-2010, 02:33 PM
Lions baby! Patrick Peterson is inching close to our grasp!

pocketaces
11-07-2010, 02:52 PM
I watched the LSU game yesterday just to watch Peterson. I really didn't see anything that made me say WOW we have to have this guy! Who do you guys compare him to? He's obviously no Deion or Champ Bailey, so best case, who would you compare him to?

xxxxxxxx
11-07-2010, 03:30 PM
Wow **** the lions come on.

D-Unit
11-07-2010, 05:23 PM
I watched the LSU game yesterday just to watch Peterson. I really didn't see anything that made me say WOW we have to have this guy! Who do you guys compare him to? He's obviously no Deion or Champ Bailey, so best case, who would you compare him to?
I usually make judgments on a prospect based on more than 1 game. Trust me, the guy is legit.

I'm starting to really convince myself that he may in fact project better for us at Safety though. I think we try him at CB first if we draft him though.

xxxxxxxx
11-07-2010, 05:24 PM
Anyone worried that we play well tonight? lol

thule
11-13-2010, 10:42 PM
Tidbits I've pulled in that caught my eye.

• Wisconsin senior OLG John Moffitt does not look the part with a bad body that looks like it has not seen the weight room, but he has natural girth and scouts say he plays better than he looks, competing hard on Saturdays and having the versatility to play either guard or center. He has warranted some fourth-round grades from evaluators in a typically weak guard class. He has been very durable throughout his career and has been a rock on an offensive line that has keyed the Badgers' success this season. When the Badgers have needed yardage on the ground, they have consistently run left this season.

Defensive tackle Jared Crick: With eight tackles, a hurry and a sack, he flashed some real potential as a 3-4 defensive end Saturday, if you ask me. Crick is a better outside rusher because he can set up a tackle with that quick first step, then blast back inside with a strong bull rush when the tackle overcompensates. NU may not use that 3-2-6 defense again this year – or ever – but Crick gave NFL scouts something to chew on. He could still use one more year in college.
Cornerback Ciante Evans: He needs to fight off blocks a little better when a quarterback is loose and scrambling, but Evans is a cold-blooded baller as a cover corner. He rarely allowed his man to fight back across his face on deep routes, and his positioning took away that back-shoulder throw, too. Evans has learned Marvin Sanders' lessons quickly, using the sideline as an extra defender.

prince - "His height, long arms, good speed, agility and physicality make him an ideal press corner prospect," said Rob Rang, senior analyst for NFLDraftScout.com. "He appears to have the speed, open-field tackling ability and ball skills to potentially project as a free safety, as well. The teams I've spoken to about him believe he can remain at corner in the NFL and do quite well."

In fact, the 6-foot-1, 205-pound Amukamara is the top-ranked senior cornerback prospect and a potential top 10 selection, according to NFLDraftScout.com.

Prior to the beginning of the season, Amukamara was ranked the No. 1 senior prospect (regardless of position) by National Scouting, the organization that puts on the annual combine and is the preseason scouting service relied upon by over half of the league's teams.

Nebraska secondary coach Marvin Sanders, a former Husker defensive back, said Amukamara could play safety in the NFL because of his physicality.

"But I think where Prince will play is corner, because he's such an intelligent player," Sanders said. "He studies film, he studies receivers, so he has an idea of what guys are going to run against him, or what he's going to try to take away or give to him. That's a valuable thing to have at cornerback."

peterson - "There is no better cornerback in college football, and to be honest, it's not even close," draft analyst Mike Detillier said. "I see him as a top five or six pick at best and definitely a top 10 pick. He is the best cover corner out of the Southeastern Conference since Champ Bailey."

Bailey, a nine-time Pro Bowl selection who plays for Denver, was the seventh overall pick out of Georgia in 1999 by Washington.

"And Patrick is bigger and faster than Champ," Detillier said. "He has great ball skills you can't coach. No one can find the ball in flight the way he does. He thinks the ball's for him. In this day of big NFL receivers, Patrick's height and size are what make him unique."

Peterson has two interceptions on the season and five in his career with one touchdown, which are not bad numbers considering he is rarely thrown against. For example, LSU's other cornerback, Morris Claiborne, is No. 3 in the SEC this season with nine passes defended. Peterson has just two of those and zero pass breakups.

"I wouldn't throw to his side either," Detillier said.

Opponents have also stopped kicking to Peterson. He leads the SEC and is No. 5 nationally in punt returns with a 19.7-yard average on 17 returns, with touchdowns of 87 and 60 yards. He is also third in the SEC and 22nd nationally in kickoff returns with a 27.5-yard average on 19 returns.

"That's what really puts him in the top five or six in the draft," Detillier said. "It's amazing he has not been used as a kick returner before this season. He will definitely return kicks in the NFL. He's going to blow the socks off of those NFL scouts when he works out. Athletically, he's a cut above. In 27 years of studying the draft, he's the best defensive player I've ever seen at LSU."

DT/DE J.J. Watt (Wisconsin) 6-6/290/4.87
Watt's big plays at the end of Wisconsin's upset of Ohio State only accentuated what scouts already knew: The former Western Michigan tight end is growing into a potential star as a 3-4 five-technique.

Orlando Franklin, OT, Miami (Fla.)
Franklin is a top-line athlete but a bit of a raw prospect, but he has consistently improved every year and now projects as a high second-round pick who could sneak into the first round. He still must get stronger, but he is much better about maintaining his balance and playing under control to easily handle speed rushers and adjust quickly secondary pass-rush moves. He shows the ability to block effectively in the open field, especially adept at pulling to lead perimeter runs.
Franklin has improved a ton in '10 and with a great week of work at the Senior Bowl will continue his ascent up draft boards and perhaps become one of, if not the, first offensive tackle selected.

Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson (junior)
We always thought of Bowers as a top-flight prospect, but until this year few talent evaluators agreed. The naysayers said he didn't dominate enough and lacked consistency as a pass rusher and thus pegged him as a third-round prospect.
This season, Bowers has eliminated all doubt. He has been a dominant player in '10, and there now is near-universal belief that he is the top defensive lineman in the '11 draft and a likely top-10 pick. Few ends can match Bowers' size, explosive power, quick hands and footwork, athleticism and pass-rush skills.

OG Keith Williams, Nebraska
This year, there doesn't seem to be any elite offensive guard prospects like Ben Grubbs, Brandon Albert or Mike Iupati, who were all guards chosen in the first round of recent drafts. There are a few interior prospects, however, who look like they could be solid starters at the NFL level.

One such player who doesn’t receive much attention is Nebraska’s Keith Williams, who has been one of the main big men up front paving the way for Nebraska’s ferocious rushing attack this year.

The 6'5" 315-pound Williams has been a three-year starter for the Cornhuskers. He looks like he has the strength and toughness to handle the trenches of the NFL.

xxxxxxxx
11-14-2010, 12:01 AM
That just made me sold on Peterson. And forget the talk of him at safety. I just hope we have the chance to get him. I was counting on the lions to easily have more wins than us, but now with stafford all but done I don't see that.

thule
11-14-2010, 02:10 PM
That just made me sold on Peterson. And forget the talk of him at safety. I just hope we have the chance to get him. I was counting on the lions to easily have more wins than us, but now with stafford all but done I don't see that.

Right now if we have a top 5 pick my board breaks down like this.

1. Andrew Luck
2. Patrick Peterson, S
3. Prince Amukamara, S
4. Marcel Dareus, DL
5. Cameron Jordan / Nick Fairley / Da'Quan Bowers*

dsc1600
11-14-2010, 02:41 PM
We need some guys who can rush the passer. That would help the secondary out a bunch (not to say we don't need help there). We need a serious upgrade in the interior o-line. If we get a Mankins (maybe a dream, but who knows) in FA, a Bowers/Dareus type in the draft, and an NFL-caliber free safety, I think we're a playoff team in 2011 as long as Romo comes back healthy.

D-Unit
11-15-2010, 12:43 PM
We need some guys who can rush the passer. That would help the secondary out a bunch (not to say we don't need help there). We need a serious upgrade in the interior o-line. If we get a Mankins (maybe a dream, but who knows) in FA, a Bowers/Dareus type in the draft, and an NFL-caliber free safety, I think we're a playoff team in 2011 as long as Romo comes back healthy.
First off, I don't care if we had a healthy Richard Seymour in his prime. That would NOT fix the problems we have in the secondary with Scandrick, Ball and Sensabaugh. So, no I am NOT a proponent of drafting DL that high in round 1. I always hear people say... fix the pass rush and that will fix the secondary. Well... that goes both ways, and people don't often see it that way. A lockdown secondary would equally help the pass rush. Don't get stuck thinking that things only happen in the trenches.

If we move to the 4-3, then fine... get me that big time DT. Otherwise, don't. It's just not worth it for the 3-4, because that's not where our main pass rush comes from. ..and part of the beauty of the 3-4 is finding 3-4 DEs are easier to do.

dsc1600
11-16-2010, 10:18 AM
First off, I don't care if we had a healthy Richard Seymour in his prime. That would NOT fix the problems we have in the secondary with Scandrick, Ball and Sensabaugh. So, no I am NOT a proponent of drafting DL that high in round 1. I always hear people say... fix the pass rush and that will fix the secondary. Well... that goes both ways, and people don't often see it that way. A lockdown secondary would equally help the pass rush. Don't get stuck thinking that things only happen in the trenches.

If we move to the 4-3, then fine... get me that big time DT. Otherwise, don't. It's just not worth it for the 3-4, because that's not where our main pass rush comes from. ..and part of the beauty of the 3-4 is finding 3-4 DEs are easier to do.

Agreed we have some below average talent in the secondary, but you can mask that with a consistent pash rush and scheme. We have Scandrick and Sensabaugh playing major roles last year, and the D was great the last 8 weeks. Why? Alot of it had to do with the great pash rush Ware and Spencer were getting off the ends and Ratliff was getting up the middle. We're just not getting that this year, and it's killed us.

I'm not advocating we don't address secondary, because not addressing the FS position has been one of Jerry's absolute failures, but I am not sure all the blame/attention in the draft can go strictly to the secondary.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 11:03 AM
Agreed we have some below average talent in the secondary, but you can mask that with a consistent pash rush and scheme. We have Scandrick and Sensabaugh playing major roles last year, and the D was great the last 8 weeks. Why? Alot of it had to do with the great pash rush Ware and Spencer were getting off the ends and Ratliff was getting up the middle. We're just not getting that this year, and it's killed us.

I'm not advocating we don't address secondary, because not addressing the FS position has been one of Jerry's absolute failures, but I am not sure all the blame/attention in the draft can go strictly to the secondary.
But look at the names you just mentioned that generated the pass rush last year... Ware, Spencer, Ratliff. We're not gonna replace them to get more pass rush. Alternatively, look at our secondary.... We clearly have personnel moves to make. You said it yourself... you can mask the secondary's weakness. Key word "mask". Well, you can only "mask" things so long before NFL teams just expose you over and over again.

Here's the real question....

Are you seeing QBs sit there with all the time in the world before throwing the ball with success?

or

Are you seeing QBs get their passes off quickly with success?

If it's the former, then pass rush is an issue. If it's the latter then coverage is an issue. If it's both then... we gotta figure out which case is more common.


Look at the Chicago game.... We were all over Cutler in the beginning. Then Martz figured out that Cutler needed to get the ball out quicker, so he called for shorter passes and screens. He called plays that would reduce the time Cutler had the ball in his hands. The defense no longer had the time it needed to get to Cutler. Boom... Bears win.

baghdadbob
11-16-2010, 12:22 PM
But look at the names you just mentioned that generated the pass rush last year... Ware, Spencer, Ratliff. We're not gonna replace them to get more pass rush. Alternatively, look at our secondary.... We clearly have personnel moves to make. You said it yourself... you can mask the secondary's weakness. Key word "mask". Well, you can only "mask" things so long before NFL teams just expose you over and over again.

Here's the real question....

Are you seeing QBs sit there with all the time in the world before throwing the ball with success?

or

Are you seeing QBs get their passes off quickly with success?

If it's the former, then pass rush is an issue. If it's the latter then coverage is an issue. If it's both then... we gotta figure out which case is more common.


Look at the Chicago game.... We were all over Cutler in the beginning. Then Martz figured out that Cutler needed to get the ball out quicker, so he called for shorter passes and screens. He called plays that would reduce the time Cutler had the ball in his hands. The defense no longer had the time it needed to get to Cutler. Boom... Bears win.

Having watched enough of Pittsburgh over the last few years I would summarize the issue as the following

1) We generate good pressure but over rely on the ILB blitz.
2) ILB Blitz exposes the safeties and corners.
3) Our ILB, however, are not the best in space and it is clear to me we miss the Burnett/Carpenter types guys
4) Our Safeties are not play makers to begins with which further compounds the problem
5) Our DE are better suited for two gap given they don't have the speed or quickness to take advantage of one-gap

So, if we keep 3-4 my suggestions are

1) Play more zone and blitz less -- especially less ILB blitzs.
2) Find some ILB and S who have the athletics to play every down and intelligence to play zone.
3) If blitzing do more over loads on the tackles with a OLB, DB combination. Especially when teams go 4-5 WR. Zone reads

I feel one of the reasons Pittsburgh has been successful is not that they bring pressure every down but that they might the uncertainty effects the play calling and makes for shorter drops.

With the Cowboys you could read the blitz and as a result audibles killed us becasue they could isolate our guys easily.

With Pittsburgh calling an audible might kill your QB or put you into a 2 WR route with 7 covering. Neither good situation. In addition, their ILB cover a-lot of ground if teams throws slants or screens and that makes a huge difference.

So while I don't like of ILB and S talent for the 3-4 -- I think this past week you saw Pasqualoni mix it up quite a bit and it helped. Not terribly fantastic but better in spite of the CB issues we had.

I mean, remember when we killed our Coaches when other teams did not have starting CB and we could not pass the ball .... sort of happened this week to some degree to the GMen. yards, not alot of points and turnovers.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 12:43 PM
Having watched enough of Pittsburgh over the last few years I would summarize the issue as the following

1) We generate good pressure but over rely on the ILB blitz.
2) ILB Blitz exposes the safeties and corners.
3) Our ILB, however, are not the best in space and it is clear to me we miss the Burnett/Carpenter types guys
4) Our Safeties are not play makers to begins with which further compounds the problem
5) Our DE are better suited for two gap given they don't have the speed or quickness to take advantage of one-gap

So, if we keep 3-4 my suggestions are

1) Play more zone and blitz less -- especially less ILB blitzs.
2) Find some ILB and S who have the athletics to play every down and intelligence to play zone.
3) If blitzing do more over loads on the tackles with a OLB, DB combination. Especially when teams go 4-5 WR. Zone reads

I feel one of the reasons Pittsburgh has been successful is not that they bring pressure every down but that they might the uncertainty effects the play calling and makes for shorter drops.

With the Cowboys you could read the blitz and as a result audibles killed us becasue they could isolate our guys easily.

With Pittsburgh calling an audible might kill your QB or put you into a 2 WR route with 7 covering. Neither good situation. In addition, their ILB cover a-lot of ground if teams throws slants or screens and that makes a huge difference.

So while I don't like of ILB and S talent for the 3-4 -- I think this past week you saw Pasqualoni mix it up quite a bit and it helped. Not terribly fantastic but better in spite of the CB issues we had.

I mean, remember when we killed our Coaches when other teams did not have starting CB and we could not pass the ball .... sort of happened this week to some degree to the GMen. yards, not alot of points and turnovers.
I bolded the parts I liked in your post. How it affects the draft will be uncertain until we know who our coaches are and what changes are made. But if we stick with the same staff/scheme, I agree with some of the stuff you said.

...also, your reading is hard to decifer sometimes. I think you're just typing to fast or something, but can you write so we can understand you more clearly?

baghdadbob
11-16-2010, 01:16 PM
I bolded the parts I liked in your post. How it affects the draft will be uncertain until we know who our coaches are and what changes are made. But if we stick with the same staff/scheme, I agree with some of the stuff you said.

...also, your reading is hard to decifer sometimes. I think you're just typing to fast or something, but can you write so we can understand you more clearly?

A good 3-4 uses lots of underneath zone with 3 LB always in coverage. This is something I found lacking in the Wade 3-4. I think also a good Wade 3-4 requires DE that can play one-gap and we don't have that. Spears, Igor, Canty before them..... all 3-4 DE. Hatcher, Bowen, Ratliff I think have more positional flexibiltiy given their quickness. We just have a bit of a miss-mash of talent in the front 7 and I am not sure our D philosophy has ever been set long enough for anything to take root.

But to me, we have personnel to play D closer to what Parcells/Belichek would do. Thump'em, keep'em in front and pray for a few turnovers due to the Offenses mistakes. With Wade, so much is predicated on the blitz creating big plays -- that is to say the D forces the turnovers mores so than the Offense makes mistakes.

Hope that helps, I do type too quick and thoughts get jumbled up. Sorry.

Moving ....

Here is a name I love Vontaze Burfict -- don't know if he comes out given he is a bit crazy and only a sophomore. But that is an ILB. Maybe a better 4-3 Prospect than 3-4 but man that is the mindset I want on D minus the PF.

Runs, hits, plays hard every damn down.

dsc1600
11-16-2010, 01:30 PM
But look at the names you just mentioned that generated the pass rush last year... Ware, Spencer, Ratliff. We're not gonna replace them to get more pass rush. Alternatively, look at our secondary.... We clearly have personnel moves to make. You said it yourself... you can mask the secondary's weakness. Key word "mask". Well, you can only "mask" things so long before NFL teams just expose you over and over again.

Here's the real question....

Are you seeing QBs sit there with all the time in the world before throwing the ball with success?

or

Are you seeing QBs get their passes off quickly with success?

If it's the former, then pass rush is an issue. If it's the latter then coverage is an issue. If it's both then... we gotta figure out which case is more common.


Look at the Chicago game.... We were all over Cutler in the beginning. Then Martz figured out that Cutler needed to get the ball out quicker, so he called for shorter passes and screens. He called plays that would reduce the time Cutler had the ball in his hands. The defense no longer had the time it needed to get to Cutler. Boom... Bears win.

We're 29th in points allowed, 20th in sacks, 24th in INTs. Clearly the D needs some work, haha. My whole point is not to dismiss our secondary needs (we clearly need a FS, and a nickel CB at least), but to point out that we need to generate more consistant pressure as well. We have Ware, who else can do it consistantly? The question/debate is what to do if the 2 CBs are off the board, and you don't see the value in drafting OL (we draft in the 5-10 area). Or what to do if all our options are on the board (we draft in the top 3 area). It's going to be interesting to discuss going forward.

Go Cowboys
11-16-2010, 02:35 PM
I think you make yourself a big board of the top 32 or so guys in the Draft......Regardless of position...Then you knock of, the few positions we truly do not need. (QB, WR, RB, TE, give or take a position here) At this point your list should be around the range of 15-20 maybe even less. You then proceed the player highest rated there with the pick.


Drafting for need can cause many more problems than it solves. Drafting the best player can also but it tends to happen less.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 03:04 PM
I think you make yourself a big board of the top 32 or so guys in the Draft......Regardless of position...Then you knock of, the few positions we truly do not need. (QB, WR, RB, TE, give or take a position here) At this point your list should be around the range of 15-20 maybe even less. You then proceed the player highest rated there with the pick.


Drafting for need can cause many more problems than it solves. Drafting the best player can also but it tends to happen less.
I've always said BPA according to need. So I agree with your statement there.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 03:20 PM
We're 29th in points allowed, 20th in sacks, 24th in INTs. Clearly the D needs some work, haha. My whole point is not to dismiss our secondary needs (we clearly need a FS, and a nickel CB at least), but to point out that we need to generate more consistant pressure as well. We have Ware, who else can do it consistantly? The question/debate is what to do if the 2 CBs are off the board, and you don't see the value in drafting OL (we draft in the 5-10 area). Or what to do if all our options are on the board (we draft in the top 3 area). It's going to be interesting to discuss going forward.
Well, when you're in November and the draft is in April, I know some people like to lock themselves into thinking who the top prospects are... but the fact is that a lot changes between now and then.

So when you say what to do when the top 2 CBs are off the board... and there is no OL worth taking... I think you're trapping yourself a little bit. For me, I like to project more than others. ie. I don't think Marcel Dareus is the top DT. I don't even think Cameron Heyward is a 1st rounder. Amakumara is not locked in as my #2 CB. Wisneiwski is a late 2nd/early 3rd rounder, imo... not a 1st rounder. Yet, people are saying he is right now. I know everyone has their own projections and I can be totally off (like I am frequently). So the debate on who to take will be a fun one all the way to the end. The way I look at it is... don't lock yourself into thinking about prospect values, but rather... draft strategy... what are your needs vs wants, which positions are deeper than others, which positions are typically first round worthy, how to avoid drafting busts, who are the sleepers, who's flying under the radar, who's overrated, how can you maximize each draft pick, what are Jerry's tendencies, fitting personnel to scheme.. etc etc. That's what I think about when I make my mocks and I talk draft.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 03:52 PM
A good 3-4 uses lots of underneath zone with 3 LB always in coverage. This is something I found lacking in the Wade 3-4. I think also a good Wade 3-4 requires DE that can play one-gap and we don't have that. Spears, Igor, Canty before them..... all 3-4 DE. Hatcher, Bowen, Ratliff I think have more positional flexibiltiy given their quickness. We just have a bit of a miss-mash of talent in the front 7 and I am not sure our D philosophy has ever been set long enough for anything to take root.

But to me, we have personnel to play D closer to what Parcells/Belichek would do. Thump'em, keep'em in front and pray for a few turnovers due to the Offenses mistakes. With Wade, so much is predicated on the blitz creating big plays -- that is to say the D forces the turnovers mores so than the Offense makes mistakes.

Hope that helps, I do type too quick and thoughts get jumbled up. Sorry.

Moving ....

Here is a name I love Vontaze Burfict -- don't know if he comes out given he is a bit crazy and only a sophomore. But that is an ILB. Maybe a better 4-3 Prospect than 3-4 but man that is the mindset I want on D minus the PF.

Runs, hits, plays hard every damn down.
Very astute observations! I do agree that we have a mis-match of talent where we have Parcells 2 gap types, trying to fit in Wades' 1 gap scheme. There are several faults for that... Parcells jumping ship suddenly like he did... That alone caused a major halt to the long term rebuilding process. Jerry hiring Wade who's scheme required a different type of player, and then not addressing those adequately. I thought they started off right by drafting Spencer, but they never did enough along the DL. They did bring in Wade's guy in Olshansky, but they kept Spears (bad idea), kept Hatcher (don't ask me why), got rid of Carpenter too late, kept Bradie James too long, and while Brooking was a good get as a stop gap, they whiffed on addressing it long term. Jason Williams, waste. Sean Lee... a little too late. The biggest thing though is letting Ratliff off the hook and not moving him to DE. Early in Wade's tenure, they wanted to play him at DE and had him taking snaps in preseason. Wade was soft and backed off because Ratliff complained about having to go against OGs and big OTs and preferred to face OGs and Cs who are typically smaller than tackles. Wade gave in. Ratliff would be one of the best 3-4 DEs in the league in Wade's 1 gap scheme, but he was afraid of the challenge and didn't want to learn a new position. He saw an easier way out and put up a fit. Hence, while we had a pro bowl NT who's claim to fame came from penetrating backfields, there were many times when teams just ran straight up the gut against us and bowled over Rat... and because he never consistently (is the key word) drew a double team, the rest of Wade's scheme was compromised. Wade tried to compliment Ratliff by addressing NT the way he really wanted to... with more heavy set NTs... Siavii, Brent...even the UDFAs we looked at were huge. No one was of the smaller mold of Ratliff. That to me was another reason why we have a mis-placed bodies and the rebuilding process wasn't address properly. It's no coincidence to me that we are looking at this draft for the same positions we've been looking for since we transition to the 3-4 in year 1. NT, DE, ILB. Why has it taken so long? Poor draft decisions, average FA decisions and weak head coaching decisions to do what is right.

thule
11-16-2010, 05:07 PM
Some tidbits that caught my eye from Bunting today.

I got to take my first look at Central Florida right tackle Jah Reid this weekend and I will admit that I still need to go back and watch some real tape on him. However, my initial TV impressions of the kid were very good. He’s a big, 6-7, 325-pound tackle who carries his weight well, looks really long armed and displays natural bend in his lower half. He displayed good initial balance and body control in pass protection, kept his arms up and showcased good pop and balance when asked to extend and punch. He was also very powerful in the run game, gaining leverage on contact, displaying good hand placement and liked to pump his legs and finish blocks. Now, he does lack great range off the edge vs. speed and at times is forced to open up the gate and lunge into defenders, pushing them past the play. Plus, he isn’t a real velcro player once he gets a hold of a defender despite his size. However, Reid gets off the snap count on time, seems to really understand angles and looks like one of the better right tackle prospects I have seen so far this draft season.

We know Georgia FB Shaun Chapas is a tough, high-character kid who can get after you as a lead blocker and likely will be able to fight his way onto an NFL roster because of that. However, watching him this week he did two things that will definitely help his draft stock further because it shows he’s more than just a one-trick pony.

1. He looked natural catching the football out of the backfield in the pass game, getting down the seam on one occasion and with ease/confidence plucking the ball away from his frame.

2. He showed well in the pass game picking up the blitz, stonewalling defenders and moving his feet well through contact in order to keep his side of the pocket clean.

He’s still going to make his money in the NFL as a lead guy, but being able to catch the football and block in the pass game gives this guy the opportunity to play on third down as well, which will only further add to his stock in what is a very good fullback class.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 05:17 PM
Some tidbits that caught my eye from Bunting today.
Cool. Thanks for sharing. I usually like what Bunting has to say, but I never fully sell myself to it either.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 05:38 PM
If you get a chance tonight, watch ESPN2. Muhammed Wilkerson, a 6-5, 305 DE will be on the field. He's another guy who I like who makes me think drafting a Top 10 DE would be a mistake. He's just a junior though.

thule
11-16-2010, 06:03 PM
Cool. Thanks for sharing. I usually like what Bunting has to say, but I never fully sell myself to it either.

I just follow his updates because he scouts some less heralded players. I hate on draft day when we select a player and I look through the archives of our talks and can't find any discussion on them...so I try to post stuff I find relevant in case we need it down the road. He is also not as cookie cutter as some of the other mainstream stuff...it's nice to read stuff that isn't "tight hips...or doesn't get low in his backpedal consistently enough"....he uses a lot more scouting terms.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 07:05 PM
I just follow his updates because he scouts some less heralded players. I hate on draft day when we select a player and I look through the archives of our talks and can't find any discussion on them...so I try to post stuff I find relevant in case we need it down the road. He is also not as cookie cutter as some of the other mainstream stuff...it's nice to read stuff that isn't "tight hips...or doesn't get low in his backpedal consistently enough"....he uses a lot more scouting terms.
Reminds me of guys like ... what's his first name again... that Guard we drafted... Brewster in the 3rd round.... Victor Butler (3rd round), Brian Williams (4th round)...

With the late round guys I don't hear about... Erik Walden, Patrick Crayton, Pat McQuistan... I don't care about not knowing... but when it happens in the first 4 rounds, yeah... that frustrates me because I think the team doesn't know what it's doing.

xxxxxxxx
11-16-2010, 07:54 PM
Butler is a keeper. Period.

D-Unit
11-16-2010, 09:14 PM
Butler is a keeper. Period.
Yeah but it was a luxury pick. We had so many other better players to pick from that would be helping us today rather than sitting on our bench. I do like the guy. Don't get me wrong. I'd rather him be starting than Spencer. I've said that many times. But right now, that pick is giving us a big ZERO in ROI.

But the reason why I mentioned him in the first place is because he was a name that wasn't mentioned on these boards... not seen in our forum mocks, etc.

thule
11-17-2010, 06:42 AM
Some interesting food for thought here.

Columbo will have one more year left on his deal. That said only position that makes a ton of sense on the OL to draft with a top 15 pick is a LT or maybe an elite guard...but once a decade type guy.

That said something funny has came over me. Not sure how many people kept up with the Riley Reiff thread on the forums. But basically the kid is a RS Soph and will be 22 in December. On the field he is Iowa's best OL and while he isn't a technician by any means...he does have elite feet and has a strong drop-step...and displays good lower body power. That said he isn't a finished product he is a ball of clay. Needs to work on upper body strength and doing a better job of locking on to defenders and driving them past the QB...his initial punch seems to be ok..(see upper body strength above) but he doesn't always engage..which leaves him susceptible to the outside in move.

I bring this up for a reason. This OT class is terrible...there might not even be a NFL LT drafted. With that said I've had no problem with Free on the left side...while he hasn't been perfect he has been above average for a LT. But to me if you are going to invest a early pick into the OL and you see a top tier LT talent you have to take him.

Ideally he could sit a year and work on becoming a technician ever down...and we can squeeze one last year out of Columbo. Then Free can move to RT and this kid can play LT.

Am I losing my marbles....I love the idea of having OT taken care of for the next 5 years, even more so than drafting a top flight 5-tech. This class has 1 maybe 2 LT's in it if Reiff declares depending on how you view Sherrod...this class has about 10-15 impact DL.

Something interesting to ponder for us I think. It'd help to know what the organization thinks about Sam Young also...he could be potentially our replacement for Columbo...but thats impossible to project right now.

xxxxxxxx
11-17-2010, 08:12 AM
Free is our LT of the future. I don't think Jerry with allow him to be moved. Plus, that is his natural spot. He is an athlete.

xxxxxxxx
11-17-2010, 10:18 AM
Do you guys think barber could be a piece of a trade on draft day?

Morton
11-17-2010, 10:24 AM
Do you guys think barber could be a piece of a trade on draft day?

If Patrick Crayton only fetches a 7th round pick in trade, I doubt Jerry would get much more for Marion Barber.

The only tradeable assets the Cowboys have that would realistically fetch more than a 3rd round pick are: Tony Romo, Demarcus Ware, Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, and Jay Ratliff.

If Jerry wanted to pick up some more high draft picks, his best bet would be to make a bold trade involving Tony Romo or Miles Austin.

bigbluedefense
11-17-2010, 10:45 AM
The problem with Dallas's defense is that it seems to be much better than it really is. The truth is, you have 4 great or potentially great players on D, and the other 7 are mediocre at best.

That's a lot of holes to fill. It's kind of like the Jets defense in a sense that the talent on the unit is overrated but its been masked by good coordination.

Ware, Spencer, Ratliff and possibly Jenkins. Those are your 4 aces. The rest are below average players. Both DEs are below average, both ILBs are below average, the safeties are atrocious, and Newman isn't getting any younger and Scandrick has been poor for 2 seasons now.

You can improve that defense in a number of areas as far as Im concerned. I'd focus on 5 technique if you keep Ratliff at NT, or CB in the 1st round.

D-Unit
11-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Some interesting food for thought here.

Columbo will have one more year left on his deal. That said only position that makes a ton of sense on the OL to draft with a top 15 pick is a LT or maybe an elite guard...but once a decade type guy.

That said something funny has came over me. Not sure how many people kept up with the Riley Reiff thread on the forums. But basically the kid is a RS Soph and will be 22 in December. On the field he is Iowa's best OL and while he isn't a technician by any means...he does have elite feet and has a strong drop-step...and displays good lower body power. That said he isn't a finished product he is a ball of clay. Needs to work on upper body strength and doing a better job of locking on to defenders and driving them past the QB...his initial punch seems to be ok..(see upper body strength above) but he doesn't always engage..which leaves him susceptible to the outside in move.

I bring this up for a reason. This OT class is terrible...there might not even be a NFL LT drafted. With that said I've had no problem with Free on the left side...while he hasn't been perfect he has been above average for a LT. But to me if you are going to invest a early pick into the OL and you see a top tier LT talent you have to take him.

Ideally he could sit a year and work on becoming a technician ever down...and we can squeeze one last year out of Columbo. Then Free can move to RT and this kid can play LT.

Am I losing my marbles....I love the idea of having OT taken care of for the next 5 years, even more so than drafting a top flight 5-tech. This class has 1 maybe 2 LT's in it if Reiff declares depending on how you view Sherrod...this class has about 10-15 impact DL.

Something interesting to ponder for us I think. It'd help to know what the organization thinks about Sam Young also...he could be potentially our replacement for Columbo...but thats impossible to project right now.
Yeah, I've been following Reiff real hard. The guys talking about him on the forum are high on his jock. ...as if he's the #1 OT in the draft. I'm not buying it, but I'm not ready to totally dismiss it either. I do think he declares. I think with the CBA issues, that we'll see a lot of juniors who normally wouldn't declare... declare this year. In Scott's radio blog, where he interviewed that scout yesterday, that's what the scout had mentioned. Made sense to me when he explained it. But yeah... I see him declaring and I see us having a shot at him at the top of Round 2 right now. But if I have the choice between Reiff and Tyron Smith, I take Smith... easily.

D-Unit
11-17-2010, 10:54 AM
Do you guys think barber could be a piece of a trade on draft day?
No. Maybe before the draft, but not during.

xxxxxxxx
11-17-2010, 11:27 AM
The problem with Dallas's defense is that it seems to be much better than it really is. The truth is, you have 4 great or potentially great players on D, and the other 7 are mediocre at best.

That's a lot of holes to fill. It's kind of like the Jets defense in a sense that the talent on the unit is overrated but its been masked by good coordination.

Ware, Spencer, Ratliff and possibly Jenkins. Those are your 4 aces. The rest are below average players. Both DEs are below average, both ILBs are below average, the safeties are atrocious, and Newman isn't getting any younger and Scandrick has been poor for 2 seasons now.

You can improve that defense in a number of areas as far as Im concerned. I'd focus on 5 technique if you keep Ratliff at NT, or CB in the 1st round.

Coming from the man who just lost on an Allan Ball INT!!!

LOL just kidding, I agree with you. I think we are stuck at ILB. With the miss on Jason Williams and Sean Lee being out 2nd rounder, I don't think Jerry will swallow his pride and address that.

DL and CB are pretty deep in this draft, which helps us. We have to nab atleast 1 legit o-lineman in FA. I think we are going to win enough games where PP is out of reach, which I know you as a giants far are happy about. I don't know about Prince. He may fall in our laps, or a trade up is necessary.

If we end up around 5-11, we may be in no mans land, which kinda sucks.

Macarthur
11-17-2010, 12:02 PM
The problem with Dallas's defense is that it seems to be much better than it really is. The truth is, you have 4 great or potentially great players on D, and the other 7 are mediocre at best.

That's a lot of holes to fill. It's kind of like the Jets defense in a sense that the talent on the unit is overrated but its been masked by good coordination.

Ware, Spencer, Ratliff and possibly Jenkins. Those are your 4 aces. The rest are below average players. Both DEs are below average, both ILBs are below average, the safeties are atrocious, and Newman isn't getting any younger and Scandrick has been poor for 2 seasons now.

You can improve that defense in a number of areas as far as Im concerned. I'd focus on 5 technique if you keep Ratliff at NT, or CB in the 1st round.

I disagree. I don't think Newman is mediocre. I don't think James is mediocre. I think Scandrick, while inconsistent, is a decent 3rd CB. Now, I'm not saying those guys are well above average, but there's more on this defense than 4 good players and a bunch of scrubs.

Now, the safety position is so bad, I think it makes some of the other units look worse than they are, namely CB. I think if you had one good safety and one average NFL safety back there, our CB situation would look tons better.

thrule, I think you make an interesting point. I think there will be a position in the OL that we may have no choice but to try and squeeze one more year out of someone. I think we will be hard pressed to replace a RT and 2 guards all in one off season. It may make more sense to keep Columbo one more year and try and fix the interior OL this off season and address RT next.

D-Unit
11-17-2010, 01:13 PM
I disagree. I don't think Newman is mediocre. I don't think James is mediocre. I think Scandrick, while inconsistent, is a decent 3rd CB. Now, I'm not saying those guys are well above average, but there's more on this defense than 4 good players and a bunch of scrubs.

Now, the safety position is so bad, I think it makes some of the other units look worse than they are, namely CB. I think if you had one good safety and one average NFL safety back there, our CB situation would look tons better.

thrule, I think you make an interesting point. I think there will be a position in the OL that we may have no choice but to try and squeeze one more year out of someone. I think we will be hard pressed to replace a RT and 2 guards all in one off season. It may make more sense to keep Columbo one more year and try and fix the interior OL this off season and address RT next.
As for Colombo, he only makes $1.9M next season. I mentioned that in the Fix the Cowboys thread. In the scenario I posted there, I mentioned him as a possible cut casulty, but that it would be difficult to cut him if the others are also cut. He's cheap enough to keep, even if ends up being a back up.

bigbluedefense
11-17-2010, 01:25 PM
I disagree. I don't think Newman is mediocre. I don't think James is mediocre. I think Scandrick, while inconsistent, is a decent 3rd CB. Now, I'm not saying those guys are well above average, but there's more on this defense than 4 good players and a bunch of scrubs.

Now, the safety position is so bad, I think it makes some of the other units look worse than they are, namely CB. I think if you had one good safety and one average NFL safety back there, our CB situation would look tons better.

thrule, I think you make an interesting point. I think there will be a position in the OL that we may have no choice but to try and squeeze one more year out of someone. I think we will be hard pressed to replace a RT and 2 guards all in one off season. It may make more sense to keep Columbo one more year and try and fix the interior OL this off season and address RT next.

Ask yourself this: When was the last time Brady James made a play on the field? The guy is just there. Sure hes decent vs the run, but that's about it.

I don't think Newman is a scrub, but he's gonna be 33 next year. That's pretty old for a CB.

I think theres no question that both DE positions and safeties are occupied by scrubs.

Wade did a good job of masking it, as did Ware, Spencer and Ratliff, but eventually it rears its head.

Macarthur
11-17-2010, 02:04 PM
Ask yourself this: When was the last time Brady James made a play on the field? The guy is just there. Sure hes decent vs the run, but that's about it.

I don't think Newman is a scrub, but he's gonna be 33 next year. That's pretty old for a CB.

I think theres no question that both DE positions and safeties are occupied by scrubs.

Wade did a good job of masking it, as did Ware, Spencer and Ratliff, but eventually it rears its head.

Actually, I remember Brady making a few plays this year. He certainly blew up dipsh*t on that 4th and 2. Look, I don't think he's much more than average, but he's not a scrub.

Newman is older. safties are scrubs, and that may be kind, but I don't think our DE's are scrubs. Again, no all pro's there, but bowen, igor and hatcher are serviceable.

And DEs in our system are difficult to quantify. I would argue that if a team is having a tough time running on you, the DEs are playing well, even though they may not be making tackles.

bigbluedefense
11-17-2010, 02:16 PM
Actually, I remember Brady making a few plays this year. He certainly blew up dipsh*t on that 4th and 2. Look, I don't think he's much more than average, but he's not a scrub.

Newman is older. safties are scrubs, and that may be kind, but I don't think our DE's are scrubs. Again, no all pro's there, but bowen, igor and hatcher are serviceable.

And DEs in our system are difficult to quantify. I would argue that if a team is having a tough time running on you, the DEs are playing well, even though they may not be making tackles.

Fair enough. I won't argue that.

LonghornsLegend
11-17-2010, 02:21 PM
LOL. Scandrick is FAR worse then decent, I don't know how you figure that. Bradie doesn't really make alot of plays BBD your right but what are you gonna do? You can't replace both safety spots, find a starting CB or 2, get two ILB(because Brooking is old), find 2 starting DE's, and 4 starting O-lineman all in one off-season.


Just gotta roll with what we have, Stephen Bowen is a very good DE nobody knows about, Igor is good enough. Neithe are a Richard Seymour so if you can get one sure, but their not scrubs. Both safety spots are manned by scrubs though, which is why importance goes above DE due to that. ILB sure we need some guys, but Bradie is young and solid, no need to rush to replace him until we get some other positions filled.


CB is a huge need, whatever you feel about Newman he's old and injury prone at this point, if Scandrick is our slot again were ******, if he bumps up to #2 CB were even more ******. I can't possibly fathom how a guy could play worse then he has for us this season. We hated Jacque Reeves and Scandrick has been worse, that one season I at least remember Reeves making a FEW plays on the ball, Scandrick is just an automatic completion. He should be no higher then 5th DB until he improves his play.

D-Unit
11-17-2010, 02:36 PM
Let's have some ILB talk!

I'll start it off... with a guy at the top of my radar for ILBs.

Nate Irving, MLB, NC State - 6'1, 235

http://i49.tinypic.com/do7yuw.jpg

You might say that's slightly small for a 3-4 ILB. I don't care. They guy plays like a man possessed and we drafted Jason Williams who was basically the same size. He was in a car wreak and he missed last season, but this year he's back with avengence. He just totaled 13 tackles against Wake Forest and 8 of those tackles were made behind the LOS. He's a beast! That broke Mario Williams' record of 6 TFL in a game. I love the way he plays. He's also pretty good in coverage. He doesn't have the bulky build that slows him down, so he really gets out there quickly and seems to have a knack at reading the QBs eyes. 4 INTs in '08 before the injury. None this year, but he does have 4 PBUs. On the year so far he has a team leading 78 tackles, 18.5 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 4 PBUs, 8 QB hurries, 1 FF and 1 FR.

Lookin' like a 3rd to 4th rounder.

Watch his accident story here...

H56vB3Y6Udc

LonghornsLegend
11-17-2010, 02:47 PM
That's what I'm talkin' about! I wanna read some ILB talk for mid rounders who we can maybe steal a starter from. I don't know much about dude yet D but I'll read more into him, he is jacked up, but I DO for sure want a leader. Fiery, animated, team leader on whoever he plays for now, vocal, a Tashard Choice/Ray Lewis/Keith Brooking type of player.


We need more of those anyway, but I definately wanna get someone in the middle who has those traits.

xxxxxxxx
11-17-2010, 03:53 PM
BBD and LL, you guys are wrong about Bradie James this year. I agree with Modano. The guy just has a stereotype of sucking in coverage and being slow. While he isn't good in coverage, overall he has had a hell of a year. Him and even brooking have been flying around and doing there job. The secondary is what's getting torched. Bradie is arguably having a pro-bowl type season, and you can sig quote me on that. He isn't going to get in obviously, but he is playing well. The guy gets a bad rep, but he is playing well. I don't like all the hate on him, it is undeserved. He won the game with that stop of jacobs. And he ****** Bradshaw up all game.

D-Unit
11-17-2010, 05:18 PM
Whatever you guys believe about Bradie, ILB doesn't need to be addressed until the mid-rounds at the earliest, but it should be addressed nonetheless.

romo4prez415
11-17-2010, 08:06 PM
I think the ILBer discusssion really is determined on our scheme. If we want to run alot of man coverage than we have got to get someone like David Harris from the Jets but if we want to play zone I think you can hide Bradie. He's far from a probowl player but you cant really have stars at every position and I can live with him if we're bigger up front and have better safety play.

baghdadbob
11-17-2010, 08:41 PM
I think the ILBer discusssion really is determined on our scheme. If we want to run alot of man coverage than we have got to get someone like David Harris from the Jets but if we want to play zone I think you can hide Bradie. He's far from a probowl player but you cant really have stars at every position and I can live with him if we're bigger up front and have better safety play.

Bradie has proven a poor zone player.

Burdick is who I want.

D-Unit
11-17-2010, 08:57 PM
Bradie has proven a poor zone player.

Burdick is who I want.
I agree. Bradie in zone is a nightmare.

Who is Burdick?

baghdadbob
11-17-2010, 09:04 PM
I agree. Bradie in zone is a nightmare.

Who is Burdick?

V Burfict, ILB ASU

D-Unit
11-17-2010, 09:12 PM
V Burfict, ILB ASU
You know he's not draft eligible right?

baghdadbob
11-17-2010, 09:42 PM
You know he's not draft eligible right?

I had understood he was a third year SOPH like Sidney Rice back in the day.

D-Unit
11-18-2010, 02:48 AM
I had understood he was a third year SOPH like Sidney Rice back in the day.
That would be a negative ghostridah. ;)

http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/burfict_vontaze00.html

He's a helluva prospect though. Good eye.

baghdadbob
11-18-2010, 07:47 AM
That would be a negative ghostridah. ;)

http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/burfict_vontaze00.html

He's a helluva prospect though. Good eye.

Ray Lewis II

xxxxxxxx
11-19-2010, 02:29 PM
Does anyone like Sam Young as our RT of the future? The staff may see something in him that we don't get to see. He may be an absolute SCRUB athletically, but he just screams lunchpail RT to me. I'd be willing to give him a shot.

Go Cowboys
11-19-2010, 03:39 PM
Does anyone like Sam Young as our RT of the future? The staff may see something in him that we don't get to see. He may be an absolute SCRUB athletically, but he just screams lunchpail RT to me. I'd be willing to give him a shot.
I mean what do we have to lose in giving him a shot ?


But in all seriousness I think he may one day be a decent Tackle, not sure he will ever be good enough to go to pro bowls and such but you never know.

thule
11-19-2010, 04:38 PM
Some interesting stuff from btb today
That player might be DT Stephen Paea, a former rugby player. At 6'1" and 312 pounds he may be a bit undersized, but he is exceptionally strong and is a disruptive force in opponents backfields. He's fast, can penetrate, and has recorded five sacks despite being double-teamed all season. CBSSports has him as the top-ranked DT with a 1st-2nd round grade.

Oklahoma has an intriguing safety prospect in Quinton Carter, projected as one of the top three safeties in the draft and possibly a second round prospect for the Cowboys. He's gotten some good press lately, but the fact that he is a team captain and is perceived to be an exceptional leader on the field and in the locker room should have the Cowboys watching this guy closely. Unfortunately, there are some questions about his speed, so the scouts had better pay close attention.

Baylor's Danny Watkins is a left tackle who's seen his draft stock rise dramatically behind Baylor's 7-4 record. A former fire fighter in Canada, he is described as a gregarious leader. For what it's worth, he was drafted fourth overall in the 2010 CFL draft but opted to play out his final year at Baylor. Watkins is slated as a 2nd-3rd round pick.

USC features a trio of potential third round picks in CB Shareece Wright, FB Stanley Havili and C Kristofer O'Dowd. Havili is the top ranked fullback in this draft, and if you liked John Conner last year and what he's done for the Jets this year, you'll love Havili. O'Dowd is probably the second best center in the draft after Penn State's Stefen Wisniewski (whom the Cowboys have also looked at already).

D-Unit
11-20-2010, 03:44 AM
http://wvillustrated.com/public/images/image/WVU%20Football/Robert%20Sands/Robert%20Sands%20300x400.jpg

Haven't seen much talk about him here, but Robert Sands is a Safety that I have had my eyes on since seeing him on Youtube last season. I thought his height might mean he's the next Pat Watkins, but actually, he's very agile and moves nothing like the stiff Watkins. If we don't have a chance to draft Patrick Peterson, then I would like to draft Sands later in the draft. I like him much more than McDaniels. I still like Barron and Deunta but I think we need to draft OL at the time they will be taken off the board. So as a mid round prospect Sands intrigues me a lot.

L0o1xMWqCow

baghdadbob
11-20-2010, 02:04 PM
Boy, Wisconsin looks like they have about 7-8 Pro Players on that team.

Their OL looks amazing too.

princefielder28
11-20-2010, 02:07 PM
Boy, Wisconsin looks like they have about 7-8 Pro Players on that team.

Their OL looks amazing too.

John Moffitt is the best of the bunch when it comes to the offensive line and he can provide a team with versatility, being able to play guard or center.

xxxxxxxx
11-20-2010, 02:10 PM
Ok bob, I'm remembering that post. So if/when we draft Carimi or anyone from wisconsin you don't say, "those big 10 lineman are too unathletic, stupid pick by Jerrah."

D-Unit
11-20-2010, 02:15 PM
John Moffitt is the best of the bunch when it comes to the offensive line and he can provide a team with versatility, being able to play guard or center.
Moffitt can play center? I never knew that.

princefielder28
11-20-2010, 02:18 PM
Moffitt can play center? I never knew that.

He made 15 starts there between his soph and junior seasons

D-Unit
11-20-2010, 02:19 PM
Ok bob, I'm remembering that post. So if/when we draft Carimi or anyone from wisconsin you don't say, "those big 10 lineman are too unathletic, stupid pick by Jerrah."
IMO, the Big Ten produces the best OL talent overall. They tend to be more intelligent and more blue collar. The guys from the south seem to be more athletic, but more undisciplined, lazy and tend to rely too much on raw talent/size.

Just a generalization. Not saying it's true in every case.

D-Unit
11-20-2010, 02:21 PM
He made 15 starts there between his soph and junior seasons
Cool! I wonder why the online draftniks out there don't give him a lot of credit. He's way down on lists, and looked at as a 4-5th rounder wherever I see. But I've always liked him.

princefielder28
11-20-2010, 02:24 PM
Cool! I wonder why the online draftniks out there don't give him a lot of credit. He's way down on lists, and looked at as a 4-5th rounder wherever I see. But I've always liked him.

It could be a little Wisconsin bias on my end but I think he's either the first or second best guard in this draft class...it's between him and Marcus Cannon and I would place both as mid 2nd round picks just because of the position they play

baghdadbob
11-20-2010, 02:35 PM
IMO, the Big Ten produces the best OL talent overall. They tend to be more intelligent and more blue collar. The guys from the south seem to be more athletic, but more undisciplined, lazy and tend to rely too much on raw talent/size.

Just a generalization. Not saying it's true in every case.

Big Ten tends to produce better NFL players overall b/c the schools are generally better and the player environment still has an element of academics.

They are not as NFL ready from a body perspective but in terms of brains and skill sets -- yes they are.

Plus, I think guys who play in the cold and on grass tend to be much tougher. You are used to playing the elements that guys from the south don't like.

baghdadbob
11-20-2010, 02:36 PM
Ok bob, I'm remembering that post. So if/when we draft Carimi or anyone from wisconsin you don't say, "those big 10 lineman are too unathletic, stupid pick by Jerrah."

Call me whatever names you want but if Jerry Jones took BPA from the Big Ten with every player of every draft for the last 15 ears -- we'd be better right now.

As I said, Wisconsin is loaded. They are really talented.

xxxxxxxx
11-20-2010, 05:47 PM
I didn't call you any names.

The bottom line is, idc if the player is from D2, we need to take the best o-lineman possible. period.

xxxxxxxx
11-21-2010, 10:56 AM
Thoughts on Eric Hagg, DB from Nebraska?

Looked pretty good last night vs. A&M. Looks like a tweener.

Sniper
11-21-2010, 11:01 AM
Does anyone like Sam Young as our RT of the future? The staff may see something in him that we don't get to see. He may be an absolute SCRUB athletically, but he just screams lunchpail RT to me. I'd be willing to give him a shot.

He's beyond terrible. Every NFC East team would have a party if you named him your starting RT.

D-Unit
11-21-2010, 11:55 AM
He's beyond terrible. Every NFC East team would have a party if you named him your starting RT.
My thoughts exactly. Can't believe we even drafted him.

xxxxxxxx
11-21-2010, 02:49 PM
Colombo couldn't block my mom today, RT is a need, I hope Jerry sees that.

D-Unit
11-22-2010, 01:03 AM
Colombo couldn't block my mom today, RT is a need, I hope Jerry sees that.
The way we keep winning, we'll be picking mid first round. LT could be a possibility there, so we can move Free back to the right.

I hate taking the best of a bad class though. That's what Sherrod seems to be in the OT class. Maybe some juniors declare to make it better. I like Reiff and LOVE Smith. Tyron Smith in the mid first round is not a far reach, imo. Though I would love to nab him in the 2nd if he declares and reaches that far.

M.O.T.H.
11-22-2010, 03:12 AM
I'm on the T/G in the 1st round bandwagon. I have no problem with taking a RT with our pick.

xxxxxxxx
11-22-2010, 08:53 AM
Free is a fine LT d-unit. Don't fix what isn't broken. It's like you have a 10 million dollar stock and your selling it for the risk of making an 11 million dollar stock. Free is ballin out and a natural LT, I don't get you logic.

Sure he's had a rough spot or two, but look at the pass rushers we've had to face:

Orakpo, Peppers, Mario Williams, Babin on the titans, Jared Allen, The whole giants front 7 twice, Suh and Vanden Bosch, Clay Mathews, and the Jags front 4 ain't bad.

Free is our LT.

EDIT: and as for DE, it may not be a need. Bowen and Hatcher actually get to the passer, and Lissemore could be something too. The trick is that they are both free agents...

Macarthur
11-22-2010, 10:52 AM
Cool! I wonder why the online draftniks out there don't give him a lot of credit. He's way down on lists, and looked at as a 4-5th rounder wherever I see. But I've always liked him.

I'd be real happy with Cannon in the 1st and Moffitt in the 3rd or something like that. If we could sign another G in FA, our OL would be in a pretty good spot. Try Moffitt at C during camp and see if he might be able to take over for Geroude in 2012. Then you can draft another G next year.

D-Unit
11-22-2010, 12:21 PM
I'd be real happy with Cannon in the 1st and Moffitt in the 3rd or something like that. If we could sign another G in FA, our OL would be in a pretty good spot. Try Moffitt at C during camp and see if he might be able to take over for Geroude in 2012. Then you can draft another G next year.
I'm going to find out more about Moffitt as a Center... gonna post something on the prospect forum.

LonghornsLegend
11-22-2010, 12:36 PM
I agree that Free going back to the Right side is not an option. I know we discuss alot of different scenarios here like going to the 4-3, Newman to FS, but I don't even think it's a chance Free goes to RT, that and there isn't even close to a LT worth a top 20 pick that would step in much better then Free, RT is pretty easy to find.


Cannon and Moffitt would be pretty sexy though, we'd still be lacking at both safety positions and CB most likely, depending on who is picked up in FA.

xxxxxxxx
11-22-2010, 01:25 PM
Thank you LL. Free is our LT. Moving him is just messing with things that don't need to be messed with. End of story.

D-Unit
11-22-2010, 05:03 PM
Thank you LL. Free is our LT. Moving him is just messing with things that don't need to be messed with. End of story.
He's coming along... I'll give him that.

The better point is the one LL made about there not being an elite LT in the draft. If we had the chance to draft Joe Thomas... I'm moving Free to the right, no questions asked.

thule
11-22-2010, 05:43 PM
from football outsider...couple names I've had on my radar
1. J.J. Watt, defensive end, Wisconsin. The offensive line gets plenty of love around here, but give the defensive line some props. Watt had six tackles and two pass deflections, one of which he intercepted himself to squash any hopes Michigan had of a comeback.

2. Nick Moody, safety, Florida State. The 13 tackles were nice, but it was Moody's 96-yard interception return in the final minute that iced a big win at Maryland. Moody's coaches and teammates were yelling at Moody to go down, but the safety ignored them and sprinted to pay dirt.

3. Jordan Delegal, linebacker, Northern Illinois. Delegal blocked two punts in a rout of Ball State that wrapped up the MAC West for the Huskies. One punt was returned for a touchdown, and the other set up a score. UNI blocked a third punt on the afternoon -- tell David Letterman to spring for a special teams coach for his alma mater!

4. Stephen Paea, defensive tackle, Oregon State. The senior run stuffer was unblockable as the Beavers whacked USC, with nine tackles and a forced fumble. Paea said afterward he was offended that the Trojans went for it on fourth down six times. They were 2-6.

5. Patrick Peterson, corner, LSU. The great P-squared played what was likely his last game in Tiger Stadium. In addition to his big kick return, he intercepted the game's final pass to seal the win. Off to the NFL with ye, Patrick!


Stuff from bunting
You’d be hard pressed to find a more technically sound offensive lineman in the country than Penn State’s Stefen Wisniewski. He isn’t the biggest or most powerful of interior linemen inside. However, he routinely is able to fire off snaps on time, generates a real snap through his hips, doesn’t waste any motion getting under defenders and properly is able to get his hands inside and under his target. Plus, he showcases good balance and coordination throughout the play in both the run and pass game and really is a tough guy to disengage from. He has the versatility to play either guard or center at the next level and is a guy who I can see coming in and starting early in his NFL career. Now, I don’t consider Wisniewski a guy who will ever mature into a real blue-chip type player at the next level, but he’s the kind of solid second/third-round pick you can win with in the trenches.
Don’t read too much into it…
Despite the quiet six catches for only 30 yards and a touchdown Troy wideout Jerrel Jernigan was able to muster up vs. South Carolina this weekend, it was still impressive to watch the guy generate such significant separation for himself so quickly from the slot. Jernigan was used all over the offense, but when lined up inside, the guy has the initial burst, body control and acceleration to gain a step, run away from defensive backs and then adjust to the football. Plus, he can be very creative after the catch, displaying good balance while making defenders miss either in a phone booth or in the open field. He is a bit limited in where he can play in the NFL because of his size. However, I have been waiting for this matchup all year to see how he stacks up vs. SEC-caliber competition, and I can now honestly say he looks like a potential higher end slot guy in the NFL who can help out in the return game and with some gadget plays on offense as well.

Im_a_Romosexual
11-22-2010, 05:54 PM
mmmmm JJ Watt :drool:

baghdadbob
11-22-2010, 06:05 PM
Wisconsin this year is the bomb.

D-Unit
11-22-2010, 06:48 PM
JJ Watt... intense player right there. 2nd rounder... could sneak in the 1st.

Jernigan... AWESOME STUD. Lookin' like a 2nd rounder... maybe 3rd... my guess.

Wis... hate to say it, but it's looking like the 1st round... could maybe get him in the 2nd.

Paea... his stock is all over the place... 1st round - 3rd round. I'd take him if he last to the 3rd and take it to the bank. Doubt he gets there though.

I watched the LSU/Ole Miss game and just wished and prayed there was some way in the world to get PP. He's so damn good. Jeez... why did we have to win the last 2 games. Sickening! ...what are we gonna do? Win the SB??? gah.

D-Unit
11-22-2010, 06:48 PM
Wisconsin this year is the bomb.
What would your want for the team be right now? Win as much as they can or concede the season?

xxxxxxxx
11-23-2010, 05:06 PM
3 more catches for Crayton and our 7th rounder becomes a 6th rounder!!!!!

But he did hurt his wrist... his ass better get 3 more grabs.

baghdadbob
11-23-2010, 06:06 PM
What would your want for the team be right now? Win as much as they can or concede the season?

Great question .....

If Jerrah has made up his mind that JG is the man then I say win as much as possible and build momentum for next year. That way you start with maximum credibility in JG's plan by the players. I also start phasing out guys we don't want like Bigg. (*I know this sounds contradictory but I view it as consistent for building the right platofrm and attitude to win*)

If Jerrah is going to do a Jerrah, then lose as much as possible b/c it is a rebuild anyway so give me better picks. New Staff will need to rebuild relationships with the players. New staff will need to make its player assessments .... so might as well empty the benches and protect your valuable assets from injury. Keep playing losers like Bigg.

In practice, I say if we show we can beat New Orleans, I'd say book JG for next year and go balls to the wall starting to implement the changes needed. Including Sean Lee, any OL to replace Davis, Hatcher & Bowen a shot at full time over Spears to see what he can do, Butler or Williams at ILB, Ratliff to DE and Brent to NT, bring in a bunch of Kickers to win Beuhler's job, etc .... so try to win while grooming guys.

That way Offseason we have a real plan with real data and can use FA and Draft to address -- you can project what you have as opposed to pure guessing. To boot you send the right message to the losers on this team that they better prepare to earn their jobs next year in spite of how "talented and loved" they may be at Jerrah's level.

What is key is that should be brutally competitive for the players if JG stays from now till September 2011. No respect for any player unless they earn it with performance.

LonghornsLegend
11-23-2010, 06:09 PM
I wouldn't mind giving JG 1 more season next year if he comes up with a few big wins down this stretch, but does it work like that? It seems like either him, or someone else is gonna be Head Coach for good so they'll likely get 3 years roughly to see what they can do.


If there was a way to just give Garrett a nice 1 year contract I'd be really happy by it, my worry is we go 3 years in and we see it was a mistake already in year 1. But I really need to see how competitive we play vs NO first before I am confident too much in 1 way or the other.

baghdadbob
11-23-2010, 06:10 PM
3 more catches for Crayton and our 7th rounder becomes a 6th rounder!!!!!

But he did hurt his wrist... his ass better get 3 more grabs.

Wow, when is the last time we turned a JJ #6 into anything?

Great news, but not holding my breadth.

LonghornsLegend
11-23-2010, 06:13 PM
3 more catches for Crayton and our 7th rounder becomes a 6th rounder!!!!!

But he did hurt his wrist... his ass better get 3 more grabs.

Wow I completely forgot good info. I think he's gonna miss some games but he'll notch 3 catches before the season is out. He's their slot WR when healthy and Rivers is tossing it around a ton. Wish we had gotten a 6th rounder for Barber with as much as we use him.

bigbluedefense
11-23-2010, 06:14 PM
Now that Patrick Peterson seems to be slipping away....Cameron Heyward?

Crimson79
11-23-2010, 07:21 PM
Now that Patrick Peterson seems to be slipping away....Cameron Heyward?


If Prince is still on board go with him. If he isn't then hopefully Dareus is still available. If none of Peterson, Amukamara, or Dareus are available then hopefully Dallas has played their way late enough into the first round that they wouldn't look like mental midgets for picking an OT.

D-Unit
11-23-2010, 08:02 PM
Now that Patrick Peterson seems to be slipping away....Cameron Heyward?
I am soooo OFF that guys bandwagon, it ain't even funny. Good genes, but he's not the player I thought he was.

thule
11-23-2010, 09:56 PM
3 more catches for Crayton and our 7th rounder becomes a 6th rounder!!!!!

But he did hurt his wrist... his ass better get 3 more grabs.

12 more grabs I think he has to hit 40...that injury along with Jackson come back is gonna hurt our chances.

chrlopez1
11-23-2010, 09:58 PM
I think they have to use the rest of the season to see who wants to play next year. At the same time u can't bench players and just let them watch so for people who think we are going to sit down some veterans to play rookies are mistaken.

i myself don't want that...their is still pride to play for and I don't want to go back to losing 35 to zero.

JG already gets paid like a HC so the new deal would be for 2-3 years and i don't really care. I do think he goes and get another DC and while i like PP....I won't be upset if he gets the job. I would love Capers, but he is in GB and why leave..and he might get a shot at a job. I think Fraziers keeps the job in minnesota. I don't want a new coach and a new staff..that will hurt the team in the long run.

Top 5 Pick.....

Lets not get to high on Peterson or Prince..i really don't think about losing and our pick until after the season so for people who want Peterson and Prince are the ones who want us to tank the season and as a fan i don't care if we are 0-15..i want to win the last game.

I really doubt they will go top 5....i do see them going to 7 to 10. It is really hard to pay a DB that much money..the whole salary structure becomes whacked ging a DB top 5 money.

I think some Sophmores will come out and they will squeeze them down.

I like Hayward, but i think he will be their top of 2nd round.

How about trading down and getting an extra 2nd round pick?

We will have options....in this year draft. At the moment I think we went down to a number 5 pick...I could be wroing.

romo4prez415
11-23-2010, 10:11 PM
I am soooo OFF that guys bandwagon, it ain't even funny. Good genes, but he's not the player I thought he was.

Completely agree. If we're going 3-4DE I'd rather have Cameron Jordan from Cal assuming we're too high for both Fairley and Dareus. What are your guys thoughts on Janoris Jenkins?

I think he's the type of corner that will excel in the 3-4 scheme with alot of zone and off man coverage. The guy has elite instincts, is excellent in off man coverage. Will come up and tackle and has that anticipation, route recognition skills and is a true playmaker. The only concerns are size which shouldnt be a problem with guys like Santana Moss, Mario Manningham, and DeSean Jackson in our divsion. And then his off the field conduct will need more investigation. With that said he reminds me of Asante Samuels. Even though I'd much rather go in the trenches if we continue to win and pick in the middle of the 1st Jenkins wouldnt be a bad consolation prize.

Edit: Actually I dont think size is an issue with him as he has proven against AJ Green (someone who Peterson couldnt contain) Julio Jones and Alshon Jeffrey that he's more than capable of handling there size. As crazy as this may sound but Jenkins maybe the most well rounded corner when it comes to athleticism, technique, and the tape he has put out this season. If he goes mid 1st he's going to be terrific value because I most definitely believe he's better than Joe Haden who went 7th overall last year.

D-Unit
11-24-2010, 12:47 AM
Completely agree. If we're going 3-4DE I'd rather have Cameron Jordan from Cal assuming we're too high for both Fairley and Dareus. What are your guys thoughts on Janoris Jenkins?

I think he's the type of corner that will excel in the 3-4 scheme with alot of zone and off man coverage. The guy has elite instincts, is excellent in off man coverage. Will come up and tackle and has that anticipation, route recognition skills and is a true playmaker. The only concerns are size which shouldnt be a problem with guys like Santana Moss, Mario Manningham, and DeSean Jackson in our divsion. And then his off the field conduct will need more investigation. With that said he reminds me of Asante Samuels. Even though I'd much rather go in the trenches if we continue to win and pick in the middle of the 1st Jenkins wouldnt be a bad consolation prize.

Edit: Actually I dont think size is an issue with him as he has proven against AJ Green (someone who Peterson couldnt contain) Julio Jones and Alshon Jeffrey that he's more than capable of handling there size. As crazy as this may sound but Jenkins maybe the most well rounded corner when it comes to athleticism, technique, and the tape he has put out this season. If he goes mid 1st he's going to be terrific value because I most definitely believe he's better than Joe Haden who went 7th overall last year.
I'm not sure about Jenkins yet. But I've got Brandon Harris as the 3rd best CB... but a lot closer to #2 (Prince) than most others have him at.

romo4prez415
11-24-2010, 10:22 AM
I'm not sure about Jenkins yet. But I've got Brandon Harris as the 3rd best CB... but a lot closer to #2 (Prince) than most others have him at.

Watch Jenkins when you get a chance against Green, Jones, and Alshon Jeffery. He' definitely the 3rd best corner at worst in the draft.

He held jones to 4 catches 19 yards
He held Green to 4 catches 42 yards (again this is something Peterson didnt even do) and Jenkins even picked off a pass when guarding Green)
He held Jeffery to 6 catches 53 yards.

Put in the tape. At worst he's the 3rd best corner. I actually believe he's a top 10 player in this draft.

TheFinisher
11-25-2010, 08:36 AM
If we're picking around the 10 spot and Prince, PP, and Dareus areoffthe board I'd be happy with either Jenkins or Harris. We are in dire need of a playmaker in the secondary. Like mentioned above, 3-4 Ends do not have the value to be taken in the top 10, you can find one for cheap in the mid rounds and chances are he'll have the same type of impact as a top 10 selection.

I can't believe that there is not 1 elite OL prospect this year, just another gift from the football gods. Honestly I wouldn't touch any of them until round 2, but guys will be pushed up because of the epic lack of talent at oline in this draft. Don't get fooled by it.

Round 1- Best DB
Round 2- Best OL

Anything else is a fail.

Morton
11-25-2010, 10:32 AM
Watch Jenkins when you get a chance against Green, Jones, and Alshon Jeffery. He' definitely the 3rd best corner at worst in the draft.

He held jones to 4 catches 19 yards
He held Green to 4 catches 42 yards (again this is something Peterson didnt even do) and Jenkins even picked off a pass when guarding Green)
He held Jeffery to 6 catches 53 yards.

Put in the tape. At worst he's the 3rd best corner. I actually believe he's a top 10 player in this draft.

Jenkins will be a stud in the NFL.

Could even have a better career than Prince or Peterson, imho.

LonghornsLegend
11-25-2010, 03:45 PM
If were gonna put Janoris Jenkins, Brandon Harris and Aaron Williams in a tier mine looks like:


1. Aaron Williams
2. Janoris Jenkins
3. Brandon Harris


That's not a knock on any because they are all legit top 20 guys to be, another deep CB class. I still have Aaron Williams firmly behind the top 2 guys.

princefielder28
11-25-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm not sure about Jenkins yet. But I've got Brandon Harris as the 3rd best CB... but a lot closer to #2 (Prince) than most others have him at.

I would say Harris is closer to Prince for the 2nd spot than Prince is to Peterson for the first spot

D-Unit
11-25-2010, 07:07 PM
Well losing to the Saints is at least good for our draft position. Unfortunately I feel the only guy that can help us is Patrick Peterson.

xxxxxxxx
11-25-2010, 08:50 PM
I agree, we are kinda in no mans land right now..

Macarthur
11-26-2010, 12:08 PM
If we're picking around the 10 spot and Prince, PP, and Dareus areoffthe board I'd be happy with either Jenkins or Harris. We are in dire need of a playmaker in the secondary. Like mentioned above, 3-4 Ends do not have the value to be taken in the top 10, you can find one for cheap in the mid rounds and chances are he'll have the same type of impact as a top 10 selection.

I can't believe that there is not 1 elite OL prospect this year, just another gift from the football gods. Honestly I wouldn't touch any of them until round 2, but guys will be pushed up because of the epic lack of talent at oline in this draft. Don't get fooled by it.

Round 1- Best DB
Round 2- Best OL

Anything else is a fail.


I agree. If we could come out of the first 2 rounds with Jenkins and Wisniewski, that would be great.

xxxxxxxx
11-27-2010, 12:07 AM
I 100% agree as well. Best DB and best OL in the top 2 rounds.

chrlopez1
11-27-2010, 08:37 PM
How about trading down from top 10 pick.

Get Jenkins or highest rated CB
Wisnieski in 2nd
Duante the FS in round 2.

I would love that...

D-Unit
11-27-2010, 09:22 PM
How about trading down from top 10 pick.

Get Jenkins or highest rated CB
Wisnieski in 2nd
Duante the FS in round 2.

I would love that...
If we can get a future 1st then yes. Otherwise, we'll just trade down and miss out on an elite player. I'd rather not do that.

I still need to do more homework though. It could be a good thing, I just don't know yet.

chrlopez1
11-27-2010, 11:31 PM
I think we need 3 top quality players who will come in and start. I don't think we can see who sure who will not be here, but we can speculate on some names. I think we have an explosive team next year and we can complete for a playoff spot. We are not in rebuilding mode...as long as u have a solid QB you have a shot. If this year tells us anything is that we are not ready, but with a couple of players we can be solid again. Here are some thoughts:

Spears is gone............But he will not be missed-----nothing spectacular
Barbar is gone...............Choice moves up and Miller becomes 3rd RB
OL..............We don't resign all, but we don't cut all.
R. Williams (wr) i think we cut..we can't afford his salary for his states...
Oggletree....I think he moves to the slot..or he become 3wr and austin moves to the slot on 3 rd down.
TE---- we still have phhillips
LB...........I don't think brookings will find 2 year contract, but maybe one year.....it might work.
A. Ball is out..i think we have better players..i think Church and the other guy can complete for the job as well as a rookie.

I think an OL in the first two round and than another one 4 or 5. That will rebuild our OL.

I think our DL is good..we need to resign, but with Brent and Lissamore we have backup depth.

I am out..

Can i get some rep points?

E-Man
11-27-2010, 11:43 PM
I've noticed something about Patrick Peterson over the past five or so weeks that I've payed attention specifically to him. He really doesn't hustle at all when he doesn't have to cover. He's a good cover guy, and he's physically gifted. His problem is that he lets his teammates handle everything else if he is not directly involved. If the pass is not his way he just lags until the play is over, and if there is a run he won't pursue until it's right in his face. I've seen a lot of runs come to his side and he does absolutely nothing about it. He just watches as the other guys swarm the ball.

I wouldn't put all my stock in him at all. He's really gifted, but I don't think his head is going to be where this team needs it. I definitely won't complain to get a guy with that type of potential, but his dedication is really starting to worry me in addition to him not being as good as people think. Based on potential he's easily an elite pick, but he needs to be molded into that guy with some really good coaching.

chrlopez1
11-27-2010, 11:49 PM
I just have a feeling that these two CB will not go top 5. Teams are very reluctant to go with DB in the top 5. They have to be special and and no red flags on them. I think QB and DT and WR will go before them. I think as the juniors declare you will see that they will drop. I think teams will move up to select other positions of need.

I like Peterson for the cowboys, but I have come to the conclusing that a CB doesn't get u to the SB. It having a tough Def...starting at the line......Getting one of the top 3 would be fine with me as long as we also get a Ol and a safety.

Let's not fall in love with Peterson or Prince until we see how is coming out.....

thule
11-28-2010, 06:24 AM
We will have a top 10 pick. At this point it's such a crap shoot for our first round pick. We can look at depth of positions and that can give us a glimpse...but it's really going to come down to the highest player on our board. Position isn't going to matter. So I think when it comes to predicting it at this point we have to size it up.

If I'm a betting man I put a lot of money into us going with a 5-tech. We know it's a strong class. atleast 2 or 3 will go top 10.

Another thing to note. Looking at this safety class I remember reading last year that Dowling's game might translate better to safety especially if his timed speed isn't what people were projecting. I'd be fine with him in the 2nd. He has what I look for in a player.


Dowling's reluctance to discuss his injuries and frustrations doesn't represent a substantial departure from his normal taciturn approach to football. While many shut-down corners never shut up, Dowling is a rare breed: the defensive back who doesn't talk trash.

"Ras-I is prayerful and his faith is very meaningful to him," said London, who characterized Dowling's mood a few days after the ankle injury as "upbeat."

"He's looking at this as just a tiny setback as he is moving forward."

With his combination of size and speed, the 6-foot-2, 210-pound Dowling was projected before his senior year as a late first-round or early second-round draft pick.

"The kid had a pretty high grade going in," Mike Mayock, an analyst for NFL Network, said this week. "He's a big, good-looking kid."

But according to Mayock, who's regarded as a draft expert, "Everybody's frustrated that they won't be able to see much senior tape."

It's too early to know how long Dowling's recovery will take. London said he would be ready for April's Pro Day, when NFL scouts come to U.Va. to evaluate talent.

Naturally, the scouts and draft mavens are insatiable; they want fresh video to grade. They won't be thrilled, either, by Dowling's probable absence from all-star games and the NFL's February combine in Indianapolis.

"Best-case scenario," Mayock said, "he plays in the Senior Bowl in late January. If he can play in the Senior Bowl and play well, he'll be fine. He can wash away any doubts about his senior year."
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/11/limited-season-shouldnt-limit-potential-uvas-dowling

also some tidbits on a LT to keep our eyes on Sherrod
His quiet demeanor has made him a leader by example according to J.C. Brignone, who has played alongside Sherrod for four years and will also be playing in his last home game Saturday.
"He puts his fair share in," Brignone said. "But he's not the type of guy that will just jump on somebody and chew down their throat; he does what he needs to do."
Head coach Dan Mullen, who inherited Sherrod as part of the team Sylvester Croom left behind, has lauded Sherrod's work ethic. With the praise and awards coming in, it would be easy for Sherrod to take a few deep breaths and relax, but that has not been the case as he nears the end of his Mississippi State career.
"Every day you watch him in practice and he's working to get better," Mullen said. "That shows a sign of maturity, a sign of leadership and also a sign of a great player. I would say Derek is probably the best player on our roster."
The work ethic that drives Sherrod on the field also carries over to the classroom, where he holds a 3.53 GPA and is working on a master's degree in business administration. Sherrod is a finalist for the William V. Campbell Trophy, one of the top honors for student-athletes. Being one of the 16 winners of the NFF National-Scholar Athlete Award means an $18,000 postgraduate scholarship for Sherrod.
When Sherrod was coming out of high school in 2007, he was highly recruited but his family ties (brother Dezmond Sherrod played for the Bulldogs from 2003-2006) and liking of the campus atmosphere brought him to Starkville.
"I could've gone pretty much anywhere in the country, but I knew that this was basically my home," Sherrod said. "I couldn't see myself being anywhere else."
http://www.reflector-online.com/sports/senior-sherrod-to-play-final-game-in-davis-wade-1.2411631

D-Unit
11-28-2010, 11:32 AM
I think we need 3 top quality players who will come in and start. I don't think we can see who sure who will not be here, but we can speculate on some names. I think we have an explosive team next year and we can complete for a playoff spot. We are not in rebuilding mode...as long as u have a solid QB you have a shot. If this year tells us anything is that we are not ready, but with a couple of players we can be solid again. Here are some thoughts:

Spears is gone............But he will not be missed-----nothing spectacular
Barbar is gone...............Choice moves up and Miller becomes 3rd RB
OL..............We don't resign all, but we don't cut all.
R. Williams (wr) i think we cut..we can't afford his salary for his states...
Oggletree....I think he moves to the slot..or he become 3wr and austin moves to the slot on 3 rd down.
TE---- we still have phhillips
LB...........I don't think brookings will find 2 year contract, but maybe one year.....it might work.
A. Ball is out..i think we have better players..i think Church and the other guy can complete for the job as well as a rookie.

I think an OL in the first two round and than another one 4 or 5. That will rebuild our OL.

I think our DL is good..we need to resign, but with Brent and Lissamore we have backup depth.

I am out..

Can i get some rep points?
Why don't you suggest something in the Fix the Cowboys thread.

D-Unit
11-28-2010, 11:34 AM
I've noticed something about Patrick Peterson over the past five or so weeks that I've payed attention specifically to him. He really doesn't hustle at all when he doesn't have to cover. He's a good cover guy, and he's physically gifted. His problem is that he lets his teammates handle everything else if he is not directly involved. If the pass is not his way he just lags until the play is over, and if there is a run he won't pursue until it's right in his face. I've seen a lot of runs come to his side and he does absolutely nothing about it. He just watches as the other guys swarm the ball.

I wouldn't put all my stock in him at all. He's really gifted, but I don't think his head is going to be where this team needs it. I definitely won't complain to get a guy with that type of potential, but his dedication is really starting to worry me in addition to him not being as good as people think. Based on potential he's easily an elite pick, but he needs to be molded into that guy with some really good coaching.
I didn't see yesterday's game, but that's not what I saw out of him against Ole Miss last week. He played the run VERY well and he definitely was out there hustling. In fact, he had this one play that the RB was coming his way and he spun out of a blocker and right into the RB. It was so sweet.

E-Man
11-29-2010, 01:14 PM
I didn't see yesterday's game, but that's not what I saw out of him against Ole Miss last week. He played the run VERY well and he definitely was out there hustling. In fact, he had this one play that the RB was coming his way and he spun out of a blocker and right into the RB. It was so sweet.

I remember that play that you're talking about, and it was pretty nice. The problem was that it was right next to him. When it's not coming his way or in front of him he doesn't attack the plays often. It's what would keep him at corner for me because a safety can't have that attitude. He'd be the reverse Roy Williams. A stud against the pass, but against the run he wouldn't be too good. At this point I'd rather have Amukamara since he seems to be more fierce.

D-Unit
11-29-2010, 02:03 PM
I remember that play that you're talking about, and it was pretty nice. The problem was that it was right next to him. When it's not coming his way or in front of him he doesn't attack the plays often. It's what would keep him at corner for me because a safety can't have that attitude. He'd be the reverse Roy Williams. A stud against the pass, but against the run he wouldn't be too good. At this point I'd rather have Amukamara since he seems to be more fierce.
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see a fault in Peterson's game against the run. Not like Janoris Jenkins who I don't see as a physical run stuffer in any sense of the word.

TheFinisher
12-01-2010, 01:56 PM
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of trading down, especially if we get stuck around 9 or 10. We can pick up some nice compensation there and an extra 2nd would give us the ability to rebuild the OLine in 1 year, while still having the flexibility to address the secondary within the first 2 rounds.

A combination of Reiff/Pouncey/D. Williams would be a nice first 2 rounds

D-Unit
12-01-2010, 02:05 PM
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of trading down, especially if we get stuck around 9 or 10. We can pick up some nice compensation there and an extra 2nd would give us the ability to rebuild the OLine in 1 year, while still having the flexibility to address the secondary within the first 2 rounds.

A combination of Reiff/Pouncey/D. Williams would be a nice first 2 rounds
D Williams.... I can't think of who you're talking about... remind me.

pocketaces
12-01-2010, 02:36 PM
Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina

D-Unit
12-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Ah thanks. But um... I only trade down if we get a future 1st. Nothing else will suffice.

LonghornsLegend
12-01-2010, 03:35 PM
Ah thanks. But um... I only trade down if we get a future 1st. Nothing else will suffice.

Yea I think I agree. An extra 2nd would be nice if it's early, but who would we even target in a trade down? No thanks. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth from 09 class. I just want to take what elite player is there, which if we are in the top 12 will be.


We could always move back to around 17 and start looking at lineman but there is still no guarantee it works out. I like Rahim Moore and Deunta Williams in the 2nd honestly though either way, or Ras I Dowling who is a tweener.


Right now my big board looks like

1. Patrick Peterson
2. Prince


and I'll re-evaluate if we seem to be out of range for those 2. Not buying DE, need isn't that great. Bowen may not be an ideal starter but it's not a gaping hole that's the point. Safety not worth it that high. ILB not worth it, but damnit I would love to take a good hard look at Hightower with our 2nd rder. No lineman worth the pick that high either.


We have 3 active CB's on the roster most games, 1 of them is trash(or has played like it all year), 1 is old and injury prone, the other had a really down season. If 1 of those 2 CB's are there I don't see how it's a thought to go anywhere else. If we don't go CB it almost forces our hand, if we go DE first then we almost HAVE to go CB in the 2nd round no matter what.


If we sneak out of the first 2 rounds without one CB then next season will be a failure. I can't wait for Newman to get hurt and Scandrick to have to start, and us have a glaring hole at Nickle corner. I like McCann, heard he was moving around in the secondary a bit, but I'm not trying to rely on him to that extent.



Hell even past the top 2 CB's I'm looking at Janoris Jenkins, Brandon Harris, and Aaron Williams very strong in the mix for our 1st rd pick. You can never have enough CB's, well we don't even have an average amount. You should have 4 strong guys, 5 is nice. I knew what type of season our secondary was in for when we only kept 3 CB's back in August.

D-Unit
12-01-2010, 05:10 PM
...I'm so back and forth on DE, it's not even funny. On one hand, the need isn't the greatest, but it is a need...combine that with the fact, that I prefer addressing the position later in the draft.

On the other hand, that's where the value seems to be greatest at in the draft where we are picking. Elite players could be had... combine that with the recent thought in my mind in listening to Steelers fans complain about how weak their defense is without Aaron Smith. They value him more than Polamalu! Could that kind of impact really be something that we've been overlooking?

At this time I'm thinking that DE would still be a viable option for us in Round 1.

princefielder28
12-01-2010, 08:33 PM
D, if you can win the battle in the trenches then it can make up for problems elsewhere but it doesn't really work the other way around...i know you know that and i certainly wouldn't undervalue the importance of a potential elite DE

LonghornsLegend
12-01-2010, 08:50 PM
A 3-4 DE in the top 10 though? That just makes me uneasy. What has Tyson Jackson done for the Chiefs lately? Wasn't he a better prospect then every other 3-4 DE coming out this year? Dorsey has done much better but nobody would still take him over Brandon Flowers on that defense, an elite CB.


Now yea, if were getting Haloti Ngata then sure sign me up, so I guess we should stick to the board, but I'd only opt for that DE if he looked to be dominant in that mold, not very good.


I guess the better question is if both players turn out to their potential which would we rather have. Again, if we get a guy that turns into a Brandon Flowers type of CB we have a very solid starter in Bowen already, nothing special though. If we get a special type of DE, it helps the run D and Bowen or Hatcher gives us great depth, but then what about CB?


If that DE is elite aren't we still in deep trouble returning with our CB's? If our CB is elite our De situation is still in good shape, I guess that's my concern. I would be ok, not happy with us coming back with Igor, Bowen, and 1 more guy as depth. I'd be terrified of returning with the same CB's we have right now and not a new one added before round 3.


That's not even taking into consideration how easy it is to find a very good 3-4 DE late, and how hard it is to find a quality stud CB after the first 2 rounds.

princefielder28
12-01-2010, 08:56 PM
You can bring up the Tyson Jackson example, but he wasn't really worthy of a Top 10 pick even if the Chiefs ended up taking him at 3...what you have in Marcel Dareus, Nick Fairley, and even Cameron Jordan, who might end up being a Top 10 pick, they have the ability to breakdown the pocket and get after the passer; they can be assets in both run and pass defense...Jackson was pretty much a one-dimensional player, not much of a pass rusher and that's showing itself in the NFL...solid player but not spectacular

LonghornsLegend
12-01-2010, 09:05 PM
You can bring up the Tyson Jackson example, but he wasn't really worthy of a Top 10 pick even if the Chiefs ended up taking him at 3...what you have in Marcel Dareus, Nick Fairley, and even Cameron Jordan, who might end up being a Top 10 pick, they have the ability to breakdown the pocket and get after the passer; they can be assets in both run and pass defense...Jackson was pretty much a one-dimensional player, not much of a pass rusher and that's showing itself in the NFL...solid player but not spectacular

That's what I felt about Jackson too but I guess alot of other people didn't. I honestly don't think that was the scouting report on him then, or how the Chiefs felt, because you don't take a one dimensional player who was projected to be solid at #3 overall in the draft.


Even when we had Chris Canty he was definately collapsing the pocket and getting sacks but I don't think that position is just gonna be that important in our defense as it is.


All that being said I'd be in favor of DE I just want us to stick to our board If we have Dareus rated higher then Prince, then stick to your guns and go with it. I don't think I would have him higher now but I still do need to do more research.


Rushing the passer isn't really a problem for us, neither is the run, but covering the pass has been a problem for years. Maybe, well probably alot has to do with terrible safety play at both positions, but I could easily still see us being bad on defense with an elite 3-4 DE.


How many elite 3-4 DE's are there even in the league right now? You can probably count on one hand, I don't want one with a top 10 pick unless he's elite, and lately it seems like most drafted that soon never pan out to be more then solid. Including Marcus Spears who we took early and was outplayed by every late rounder we got.


I doubt teams would take those guys that early if they didn't feel like they weren't complete dominate players. I shouldn't let the past judge where we go in this years direction, but I'd have to be sold the guy we took could possibly take over games at some point, the way Suh looked like he could.

romo4prez415
12-02-2010, 06:34 PM
...I'm so back and forth on DE, it's not even funny. On one hand, the need isn't the greatest, but it is a need...combine that with the fact, that I prefer addressing the position later in the draft.

On the other hand, that's where the value seems to be greatest at in the draft where we are picking. Elite players could be had... combine that with the recent thought in my mind in listening to Steelers fans complain about how weak their defense is without Aaron Smith. They value him more than Polamalu! Could that kind of impact really be something that we've been overlooking?

At this time I'm thinking that DE would still be a viable option for us in Round 1.

I wouldnt say he's more valuable than Polamalu but he's definitely more important than people believe 3-4 DE's are in this board. Succesful football teams are built inside out. Steelers and Ravens defense are perfect examples. Heck even the Jets without Revis the defense didnt skip a beat. Defensive backs are only as good as there pass rush. If we pick a corner before a player like Nick Fairley its going to show Jerry still doesnt get it. We must become more dominate in the trenches on both sides of the ball its not sexy but its what wins. If I can get Fairley I go to a 1 gap 4-3 defense similar to Spagnola/Jim Johnson scheme or a cover 2 scheme.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
12-03-2010, 01:01 AM
I wouldnt say he's more valuable than Polamalu but he's definitely more important than people believe 3-4 DE's are in this board. Succesful football teams are built inside out. Steelers and Ravens defense are perfect examples. Heck even the Jets without Revis the defense didnt skip a beat. Defensive backs are only as good as there pass rush. If we pick a corner before a player like Nick Fairley its going to show Jerry still doesnt get it. We must become more dominate in the trenches on both sides of the ball its not sexy but its what wins. If I can get Fairley I go to a 1 gap 4-3 defense similar to Spagnola/Jim Johnson scheme or a cover 2 scheme.

I agree totally. Many years ago, Everson Walls was asked about leading the league in interceptions three different times. He said he would have never been able to accomplish that without Randy White, Too Tall Jones ect.

Better pass rush=better defensive backs. Better defensive backs doesn't mean a good pass rush all the time. Especially nowadays. A good defensive back will evetually get beat if there is no pass rush,but that doesnt make him a bad player.

I am not saying a front seven defender needs to be taken early. But I am saying that our pass rush has not helped our secondary. It is hard for me to believe that Jenkins and Newman and Sensy took huge steps back for no reason-and all at the same time. Newman is a year older-that is true. But Jenkins should be better. Not worse.

I think best player is the way to go. I am not sure there are many cases that can be brought up where a bad team took the best player and regretted it later.

TheFinisher
12-03-2010, 07:47 AM
yB0ab0UMhKw

Can you imagine the pass rush we would have...

The one thing that makes this hard to project is that we don't know what's going to happen in FA. Obviously, OL and DB are much bigger needs right now and if we go someone like Fairley in the 1st, we won't be able to address those other areas of need with an instant impact player. DE is more of a luxury pick and I'd be all for it as long as we have ourselves covered with 1 or 2 FA pickups at DB and OL, which I think is going to happen.

baghdadbob
12-03-2010, 03:02 PM
I have thought long and hard -- given our talent, our holes, and diff of the safety role in 3/4 v 4/3 .... I think we should go 4-3 and take one of these stud DT/DE.

thule
12-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Some tidbits

from bunting
The cream of the crop…
After breaking down some early season tape of underclassmen offensive tackles this weekend, there aren’t any draft eligible guys out there in the country with the type of athletic skill set possessed by USC’s Tyron Smith. Smith is a former five-start recruit who came to USC as a 6-5, 265-pound blocker. And over the past three seasons he has continued to add more bulk to his frame while maintaining his athleticism and developing at the position. He’s a gifted athlete who does a great job staying compact on his kick-slide toward the edge, keeps his base down and has the range to reach any kind of speed toward the corner. He displays impressive lateral quickness as well when asked to redirect and does as good a job as any mirroring in space. Smith needs to continue to work on the coordination of his punch, is a bit inconsistent at times and will allow his arms to drop after his initial jolt and I would like to see him recoil at times quickly. However, he does have the ability to do so at times, it’s just being able to do it at a more consistent rate.

Smith is very impressive on the move, quickly getting out to the second level, breaking down on contact and sealing in the run game. He also possesses some natural pop to his game when asked to run block as an in-line guy. He still needs to do a better job keeping his pad level down more consistently off the snap, but he does well to drop his pad level into contact, pumps his legs and gets his hands under defenders. His hand placement and arm extension is a bit suspect at times, but he definitely has the athleticism to stick to defenders through the play and seal.

Two other concerns to his game at this stage are…

1. His overall size, listed at 6-5, 285 pounds.
2. The majority of his playing time at USC has been at right tackle.

My take on the two concerns:

He’s going to gain weight. Smith has already put on about 25 pounds over the past three years and as he continues to mature the weight will naturally go up and he will continue to get stronger as well.

As for his position. I know the left tackle spot has more value, but personally I would let him play wherever he feels most comfortable. He does have some experience at left tackle, serving as a reserve there as a freshman. So the guy does have experience kick sliding from both sides and is a highly gifted athlete. Therefore in all likelihood he should easily be able to make the move to the blindside, it’s just something that needs to be looked into.

Either way after breaking down a couple of his games so far this year, he looks far and away like the most talented offensive tackle in the class if he were to come out.

romo4prez415
12-04-2010, 11:01 AM
I know we probably dont have a shot at him because I see us beating Arizona and Washington but boy I want Andrew Luck. Read an interesting tidbit on him. And I share the same sentiments.

Luck is more than just the best quarterback -- or best player -- potentially available for the 2011 draft, however.
He's the best quarterback AND elite prospect -- including LaDainian Tomlinson, Steve Hutchinson, Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh -- I've scouted, including every Senior Bowl since 2001.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14372683/rewind-luck-stock-rises-even-higher-ingrams-sags

D-Unit
12-04-2010, 11:14 AM
Some tidbits

from bunting
YES! TYRON LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's ma boy!

D-Unit
12-04-2010, 11:16 AM
I know we probably dont have a shot at him because I see us beating Arizona and Washington but boy I want Andrew Luck. Read an interesting tidbit on him. And I share the same sentiments.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14372683/rewind-luck-stock-rises-even-higher-ingrams-sags
Yeah and I wish Santa Claus was real.