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Mr. Offseason
07-09-2010, 01:24 AM
I have a list of rankings for Senior QB's and one that includes Seniors, Juniors and Sophomores on my blog (though the Senior QB rankings list is more recent), but I am curious to see what you guys have to say about this.

Here are my rankings for seniors, juniors and eligible sophomores for the 2011 draft:

1- Jake Locker
2- Christian Ponder
3- Nathan Enderle
4- Andrew Luck
5- Ryan Mallett
6- Pat Devlin
7- Kirk Cousins
8- Jerrod Johnson
9- Terrelle Pryor
10- John Brantley

This was hard for me to put together after the top 5, especially since I haven't seen much of Devlin, but I liked what I saw from Cousins last year, and Pryor showed me some ability in the Rose Bowl, though I have yet to review it to take notes on his performance. And John Brantley is on there because I liked what I saw in some highlights a Florida fan showed me, he really does have a rocket.

But when I put together my rankings of Senior QB's I was not very impressed with the crop we have here. Outside of Locker, Ponder, Enderle, Devlin and, from a developmental standpoint, Jerrod Johnson, the QB class is not very good in my estimation. Obviously there is a lot of time for those things to change, but I don't like what I see when I look at my rankings of Senior QB's, as a lot of them project to be back-ups or possibly 6th or 7th round picks in my estimation.

So even though it's early, I thought I'd see how you guys ranked the QB's in this class. And if you get a chance, check out my blog. The link is in my signature. I've been watching games when I get a chance, taking notes and writing up my thoughts and posting them on my blog. Thanks in advance if you can make it over!

-Mr. Offseason

princefielder28
07-09-2010, 08:18 AM
1. Andrew Luck :: Stanford*
2. Ryan Mallet :: Arkansas*
3. Jake Locker :: Washington
4. Jerrod Johnson :: Texas A&M
5. Nathan Enderle :: Idaho
6. Pat Devlin :: Delaware
7. Christian Ponder :: Florida State
8. Nick Foles :: Arizona*
9. Ricky Stanzi :: Iowa
10. Greg McElroy :: Alabama
11. Colin Kaepernick :: Nevada
12. Case Keenum :: Houston
13. Alex Tanney :: Monmouth (IL)
14. Scott Tolzien :: Wisconsin
15. Ben Chappell :: Indiana
16. Andy Dalton :: TCU
17. Zack Eskridge :: Midwestern State
18. Kevin Riley :: California

descendency
07-09-2010, 08:44 AM
The only ones I feel comfortable ranking right now are the ones I've ranked as first round QBs (who I've seen play quite a bit and impress me). Those are (in order):

Ryan Mallett
Jake Locker
Andrew Luck*
Christian Ponder

I don't think Luck declares this year because he has #1 overall potential next year unless he is a consensus top 5 lock.

JFLO
07-09-2010, 09:32 AM
1. Ryan Mallett
2. Jake Locker
3. Andrew Luck
4. Christian Ponder
5. Jerrod Johnson
6. Blaine Gabbert
7. Nathan Enderle
8. Greg McElroy
9. Ricky Stanzi
10. Pat Devlin

RealityCheck
07-09-2010, 11:04 AM
1. Jake Locker
2. Ryan Mallett*
3. Andrew Luck*
4. Jerrod Johnson
5. Nathan Enderle
6. Christian Ponder
7. Pat Devlin
8. Blaine Gabbert*
9. Kellen Moore*
10. Case Keenum

Shane P. Hallam
07-09-2010, 12:19 PM
Here is my Top 5:

AYHsrgoA

RealityCheck
07-09-2010, 12:35 PM
Great work Shane. It would have been even better if Enderle was there. xD

Hurricanes25
07-09-2010, 12:51 PM
1. Ryan Mallet: Arkansas
2. Jake Locker: Washington
3. Andrew Luck: Stanford
4. Christian Ponder: Florida State
5. Jerrod Johnson: Texas A&M
6. Pat Devlin: Delaware
7. Nathan Enderle: Idaho
8. Ricky Stanzi: Iowa
9. Colin Kaepernick: Nevada
10. Case Keenum: Houston

zachsaints52
07-09-2010, 03:01 PM
1. Mallet
Not really interested in the others.

Texas Homer
07-09-2010, 03:19 PM
1. Ryan Mallett
2. Andrew Luck
3. Jake Locker

BeerBaron
07-09-2010, 03:19 PM
1a.) Locker
1b.) Mallett
-
2.) Luck (I don't think he'll come out but you never know...)
-
-
-
3.) Ponder
-
-
Everyone else...all after the first round.

Mr. Offseason
07-09-2010, 03:25 PM
Wow you guys all really like Mallett. I'm surprised he is getting as much love as he is so far. I guess I'm just not sold on him yet. He has some really impressive ability, but I need to see more consistency from him before I can grade him as high as you guys are. I'm not a big supporter right now.

Locker is my default #1 just because if he improves like he did between his sophomore and junior seasons it's hard to put him behind anyone else. And I really like what I have seen from Ponder, especially after he trashed my Tar Heels last year.

And I really like Enderle also, it was nice to see him getting some attention in your lists.

zachsaints52
07-09-2010, 03:45 PM
For me, I am old school with the QB. Locker is up there because he can make plays with his feet. But Mallet has the best overall arm. I want my QB to be a pocket passer, and if he has to run its because the OL did something wrong or coverage sack. Plus I guess SEC bias a little bit too

Hurricanes25
07-09-2010, 03:49 PM
And I really like Enderle also, it was nice to see him getting some attention in your lists.

Yeah, the more I watch Enderle, the more I like him. If he cuts down on the mistakes next season he is really going to be move up on everyones rankings.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-09-2010, 03:59 PM
I think Enderle is an intriguing passer, but I'd love to hear the reasoning for having him over Mallet. His physical tools don't come close and Mallett overall performed better game to game against much better competition. Does Mallett's accuracy concern you that much?

This is the way my top 5 looks right now, although this coming year will obviously change a lot...

1. Jake Locker - Washington
Even ignoring Locker's athleticism, I think the way he's led that Washington offense would force me to place him high. I want to see him take smarter risks this coming year, but I don't really expect his interception totals to fall much. He'll be a controversial prospect like Matt Ryan was, but I think he's the best guy at the moment.
2. Ryan Mallett - Arkansas
I see things I really don't like and things I really do like, but in general I think JaMarcus Russell made me illogically wary of guys so talented that you overlook other things. Not that I think Mallett is pounding codeine or anything, but I see a little of the same inconsistent mechanics and plodding drop-back. Either way, so long as Mallett can show me he uses his arm strength intelligently and shows scouts that he's...well...intelligent, he's got as good a shot to go #1 as anyone. In terms of throwing the ball, as a prospect, he's up there with Russell and Carson Palmer.
3. Andrew Luck - Stanford
I don't see any real chance that he leaves school after this year. If he develops like I think he will, I think he'll be an awesome prospect eventually. What he showed me last year is that he has one of the quickest feet and fastest releases that I've ever seen from a college prospect. That said, his reading of defenses was inconsistent and his placement of the ball was erratic, not to mention some of the mistakes he made could only be called "bone-headed". In other words, he looked like a freshman first year starter, which is his right. I'll be watching Stanford closely this year.
4. Christian Ponder - Florida State
I felt Ponder was similarly inconsistent to Luck, but he was shouldering way more of his offense and faced some much harder challenges. The North Carolina game pretty much sums up Ponder well. He was completely rattled early and flat out missed the easiest throws, but by the second half he accepted that he was going to get hit either way and started flinging the ball like a star. He's not an amazing talent by any stretch of the imagination, but he's got solid tools. If he checks out with coaches during the whiteboard sessions, he's going to go in the first 32 picks.
5. Pat Devlin - Delaware
I could very easily have gone a number of directions here, with Enderle and the somewhat intriguing Gabbert out there, but I like Devlin's skill set. He's going to have to come out and raise his play from last year, but he's in a prime position to pass all over his competition and show his ability. This spot is really open to whoever steps up in 2010, in my estimation.

zachsaints52
07-09-2010, 04:04 PM
So everyone thinks there will be atleast 4+ QBs in the first? Whens the last time that happened?

BeerBaron
07-09-2010, 04:07 PM
So everyone thinks there will be atleast 4+ QBs in the first? Whens the last time that happened?

Only if Luck comes out and Ponder looks decent.

Assuming they don't suddenly tank it completely, I think Locker and Mallett are sure first rounders.

BTW, last time I think it happened was 04 I believe...or whatever year it was Eli, Rivers, Ben and <snort> Losman.......

Paranoidmoonduck
07-09-2010, 04:08 PM
I think that it's very likely Luck stays 4 or 5 years at Stanford. I'd be shocked if he comes out this year. If he did I guess that would mean he blew the doors off his second year at Stanford, so yeah, that would indicate four first round quality QB's. I just don't see that though.

Right now, for 2011, it's Locker, Mallett, and Ponder.

JFLO
07-09-2010, 06:07 PM
I think that it's very likely Luck stays 4 or 5 years at Stanford. I'd be shocked if he comes out this year. If he did I guess that would mean he blew the doors off his second year at Stanford, so yeah, that would indicate four first round quality QB's. I just don't see that though.

Right now, for 2011, it's Locker, Mallett, and Ponder.

The only real reason I see Luck declaring is if there is a for sure Rookie Pay Scale after this draft.

Even then, isn't Luck's family alright when it comes to finances? His dad played in the NFL, so I can only assume.

CJSchneider
07-09-2010, 06:14 PM
1. Jake Locker
2. Ryan Mallett
3. Andrew Luck
4. Christian Ponder
5. Jerrod Johnson
6. Nathan Enderle
7. Blaine Gabbert
8. Pat Devlin
9. Greg McElroy
10. Ricky Stanzi

bce
07-09-2010, 06:39 PM
Ryan mallett
Robert griffin 3
jarrod johnson
terrel pryor

Hurricanes25
07-09-2010, 07:06 PM
Ryan mallett
Robert griffin 3
jarrod johnson
terrel pryor

No Jake Locker?

thenewfeature06
07-09-2010, 07:07 PM
Well if Bryn Renner isn't clear cut #1 then I mean you guys are insane..

:D

CJSchneider
07-09-2010, 07:28 PM
No Jake Locker?

This could get interesting.

JFLO
07-09-2010, 09:03 PM
This could get interesting.

Or it could be the same thing we've seen for the past month?

BeerBaron
07-09-2010, 09:12 PM
Don't ya hate it when people quote others who are on your block list......

Brent
07-09-2010, 11:11 PM
the lack of Jerrod Johnson in this thread is disturbing.

ThePudge
07-09-2010, 11:51 PM
I'll get more into detail in posts coming up later this month, but heading into the season...

1. Ryan Mallett - Arkansas*
2. Jake Locker - Washington
3. Andrew Luck - Stanford**
4. Christian Ponder - Florida State
5. Jerrod Johnson - Texas A&M

- Terrelle Pryor is a guy with a ton of ability athletically wrapped into a very pretty package, but to call him even an NFL Quarterback prospect at this point would be going too far. This year will be key for him. I don't think SEC, Big XII, and Pac-10 fans really understand the inconsistencies in Pryor's game. He has a ton of work to do, if he does it then he's got as much upside as anyone on this list really. Promising flashes and a good ending to the season shouldn't mislead the intelligent fan as Pryor is as far away as any QB prospect I've ever taken a serious look at.

dannyz
07-10-2010, 01:48 AM
I like Mallett but what is so great about him. Yes he is big and has a strong arm but struggles with accuracy and decision making and that is what really makes a QB great not just arm strength look at Russell.

MiWolves
07-10-2010, 02:18 AM
I like Mallett but what is so great about him. Yes he is big and has a strong arm but struggles with accuracy and decision making and that is what really makes a QB great not just arm strength look at Russell.

When Arkansas played LSU his receivers dropped all his passes... To be honest that game was the only game I've seen of Mallett.. But it's fair to say that his receivers aren't that good.

dannyz
07-10-2010, 02:25 AM
Some people on ESPN called Arkansas WR's the best in the country and will help Mallett get a Heisman.

MiWolves
07-10-2010, 03:27 AM
Some people on ESPN called Arkansas WR's the best in the country and will help Mallett get a Heisman.

Enough said..

TACKLE
07-10-2010, 03:37 AM
I like Mallett but what is so great about him. Yes he is big and has a strong arm but struggles with accuracy and decision making and that is what really makes a QB great not just arm strength look at Russell.

Russell's short comings in the NFL all revolved around his attitude and is work ethic. There were questions about that when he came out of LSU and they only came to fruition when they he got millions of dollars. Mallett is a more talented passer but also has a great work ethic and is a fiery competitor and an excellent leader who delivers in the clutch.

descendency
07-10-2010, 06:18 AM
So everyone thinks there will be atleast 4+ QBs in the first? Whens the last time that happened?

This class has a potential to see quite a few QBs in the first two rounds, ones that could go into the first.

Locker, Luck, Mallett, Ponder, Terrelle Pryor, Jerod Johnson, Pat Devlin, Nathan Enderle, and maybe a few more could see first round grades if they have good seasons.

But my gut says 4 first round grades and a bunch of second round ones will be handed out.

the lack of Jerrod Johnson in this thread is disturbing.
He's a spread QB who is inconsistent. The fact that he is even in the top 5 of anyone's pre-season big board is shocking to me.

RealityCheck
07-10-2010, 09:08 AM
Well if Bryn Renner isn't clear cut #1 then I mean you guys are insane..

:D
That's my job, TNF, you know it. Renner isn't eligible either.

But he's the first QB in 2012 or 2013. You know that.

Brent
07-10-2010, 09:17 AM
He's a spread QB who is inconsistent. The fact that he is even in the top 5 of anyone's pre-season big board is shocking to me.
How many of his games have you watched? The "spread" offense that he runs is a pro offense. Look at the games when Sherman first coached for A&M, he was running a typical balanced pro-style offense, but that wasnt working so he just stuck with a ton of the shotgun formation stuff. It's all NFL reads, but in the Big XII, grind-it-out offensive styles don't work.

As far as inconsistency goes, he struggled a little with his deep ball but when you are running for your life because your o-line is as good as tackling dummies, you are going to have a problem; add in that he was playing from behind the majority of the time and of course your numbers are going to look bad.

Watch some of these throws, you have teams like New Mexico, UAB, and Utah State getting pressure on him... NEW MEXICO, UAB AND UTAH STATE. And, dont be shocked if you feel this way again in the year because the UT game and Arkansas game are the only ones you are going to see of him unless you live in Texas, and our O-line ain't much better.

0EwNsZpUbWA

The best is at about the 3:11 mark, when a UAB guy runs right between the guard and tackle with a push from our ****** LT.

ThePudge
07-10-2010, 09:24 AM
Some people on ESPN called Arkansas WR's the best in the country and will help Mallett get a Heisman.

Mallett's receivers were nothing short of awful a year ago... Tons of dropped balls, very little yards after catch. Ryan Mallett's decision making and accuracy are two things that make him such a rare player/prospect. He'll need to improve in some aspects such as: putting touch on his short to intermediate passes, throwing while rolling to his left, he must communicate a bit better with his teammates, and finally he needs to continue to re-work his footwork a bit after coming down from 260+ to 235 at Arkansas.

I'll quote myself from observations earlier this year to give you a fresher perspective on why people like Mallett so much.

Arkansas QB Ryan Mallett is not a finished product, and no one is under the impression that he is. He needs to improve his accuracy and consistency, as well as footwork in and outside the pocket. To fully complete his development, Mallett needs to become more of a quarterback than a ball-thrower. He needs to be able to command his team in the huddle and he needs to emerge as a true team leader.

With that all said, he has unbelievable natural tools. He has one of the strongest arms I've ever seen in football. The zip this guy puts on deep outs and passes over 40 yards is unreal. He has tremendous size, standing well over 6'6 and weighing in at over 235 pounds. He shows poise, accuracy on his intermediate-deep routes, and the ability to put the ball 70+ yards downfield or squeeze a ball into the tightest spots. He also protects the ball remarkably well for his aggressive style (4 interceptions). Athletically, he's more similar to JaMarcus Russell coming out of LSU than Andrew Walter out of ASU. He definitely shows the ability to move and to pick up yards with his legs, but like Russell, he lacks development of footwork in and outside the pocket.

There's just simply too much natural talent and ability there to overlook Mallett as a serious NFL prospect. In the beginning of the season Mallett was unproven and extremely raw, but he's settled in at Arkansas, looks a lot more comfortable, and has improved his game a startling amount. He's not anywhere near complete, in fact, of any Top Three Round QB prospect this year, he probably has the furthest to go as well as overall development. Still, God has given him the most natural talent of the bunch, and of just about all of recent QB prospects. If Ryan Mallett makes the move to come out this year, he's likely to find a way into the Top 15-20. If he stays, he's the frontrunner for the #1 pick in 2011.

That was my initial analysis, what I saw forced me to watch the remaining three Arkansas games focusing on every pass Mallett threw... so upon further review...

2. Arkansas QB Ryan Mallett completed 18 of 34 passes for 310 yards 5 Touchdowns and 2 Interceptions in a 42-21 win over Mississippi State. Some may gripe about his 53% completion percentage on the day, and two interceptions, but I’m willing to bet people didn’t watch every pass Mallett threw on Saturday. I’m happy to say I did. While his shortcomings were evident at times, he showed a remarkable amount of improvement and displayed a little of everything against the Bulldogs. Mallett went up top, put balls over his receivers shoulder, and scored. Mallett surveyed the field, checked down, and scored. Mallett rolled out of the pocket, bought time with his feet, threw across his body, and scored. I’m more confident than ever that he can make all of the throws JaMarcus Russell could coming out of LSU, perhaps more. He has a beautiful play-action fake and throws a near immaculate deep ball. All day he did what the Razorbacks coaches and his teammates needed him to do.

For a guy who doesn’t get much credit for intangibles, he’s incredibly poised and doesn’t get rattled easily. He went 3/3 in the redzone, including two Td passes. Both times he forced passes into tight spots and ended up getting picked off, he led his team back. I haven’t seen Mallett rattled and he’s absolutely scary when he gets in a rhythm. He seems to be a fine teammate as well and you can tell his line & receivers rally around him and feed off his presence. He seems to be clearing up a lot of misconceptions about himself as a player and person every week. I wrote above in my initial thoughts that Mallett remained more of a ball-thrower than a quarterback, and I think I may be eating some crow already as he has some innate QB skills. He surveys the defense, makes good pre-snap reads, and goes through his progressions quickly, not taking the amount of sacks and hits you’d expect behind a very average offensive line. Mechanically, his release is quick, high, and he throws a very pretty ball. His accuracy is one of his stronger points as he can put the ball in the tightest spots, almost always gives his receivers a chance to catch the ball with his location, and shows the ability to time his receivers very well coming out of breaks and running full stride.

Mallett still showed some drawbacks as a prospect, not everything was perfect. His footwork in the pocket remains average, more inconsistent than anything, and out of the pocket he looks significantly more comfortable moving out to his right and throwing the ball than he does to his left. He’s still getting a lot of balls dropped and a big part of it is how hard he throws the ball on short to intermediate routes. He needs to find some touch on those passes, especially over the middle of the field, if he wants to be a complete player. That kind of thing will get him into some trouble at the next level.

Man, what a prospect though. I tried to go out on a limb in my original post, mentioning Mallett as a potential Top 15 pick this year. I really don’t consider that going out on a limb anymore. So how’s this, if Mallett declares in 2010, he will be a Top 10 pick and is going to have a better chance than some think at being the first Quarterback off the board.

I won't bore anyone with more quotes from the season, but Mallett's one of those players that really is electrifying/exciting to watch from a scouting perspective. Don't eat what ESPN's feeding you, they'll have you believe 30 Td's and 7 Int's in college football deepest & most athletic conference is inefficient.

RealityCheck
07-10-2010, 09:30 AM
Some people on ESPN called Arkansas WR's the best in the country and will help Mallett get a Heisman.
ESPN is stupid, I could list 30 WR corps better than the Hogs.

wonderbredd24
07-10-2010, 09:38 AM
If you want to see why people are high on Jerrod Johnson, just watch the Texas-Texas A&M game where Jerrod Johnson was the best player on the field. Does he need work? Absolutely, but he showed what he was capable of against the Longhorns.

Ryan Mallett is going to have dropped balls regardless of who his receivers are, because he throws the ball so damn hard. It's going to happen. Arkansas' receivers, while not great, are hardly as bad as people want to make them out to be on here in defense of Mallett.

ThePudge
07-10-2010, 09:47 AM
Ryan Mallett is going to have dropped balls regardless of who his receivers are, because he throws the ball so damn hard. It's going to happen. Arkansas' receivers, while not great, are hardly as bad as people want to make them out to be on here in defense of Mallett.

I'd have to strongly disagree, those receivers drop balls 20-40 yards downfield that Mallett puts some touch on. They really held that offense back from generating first downs as balls hit them in the numbers constantly. Pop in the game film against LSU and you'll see a very frustrating amount of simple drops. Good receivers would catch these balls, while Mallett's working with a very young group with questionable NFL potential. If he'd been in South Bend this past year they'd be putting up statues of him upon graduation. If he had NFL caliber receivers his numbers would have looked absolutely gaudy.

That said, on short to intermediate passes his receivers would surely benefit from a bit more touch from Mallett. To blame the drops solely on his incredible velocity is simply incorrect.

wonderbredd24
07-10-2010, 09:54 AM
I'd have to strongly disagree, those receivers drop balls 20-40 yards downfield that Mallett puts some touch on. They really held that offense back from generating first downs as balls hit them in the numbers constantly. Pop in the game film against LSU and you'll see a very frustrating amount of simple drops. Good receivers would catch these balls, while Mallett's working with a very young group with questionable NFL potential. If he'd been in South Bend this past year they'd be putting up statues of him upon graduation. If he had NFL caliber receivers his numbers would have looked absolutely gaudy.

That said, on short to intermediate passes his receivers would surely benefit from a bit more touch from Mallett. To blame the drops solely on his incredible velocity is simply incorrect.
Definitely never said solely... but he will have drops because he does rifle the ball in so hard.

QBs like Mallett always run into this... the balls are thrown so hard that guys have almost no time to adjust and it surprises them or they trust their arms too much and put balls into traffic that get dropped because receivers are afraid to get killed.

ncst8fan83
07-10-2010, 10:15 AM
the lack of Russell Wilson in this thread is disturbing.

FTFY (10 Characters)

RealityCheck
07-10-2010, 10:29 AM
I don't think Russell Wilson even cares about football anymore.

descendency
07-10-2010, 11:12 AM
I don't think Russell Wilson even cares about football anymore.

I hope so.

wicket
07-10-2010, 11:28 AM
1 Locker
2 Luck
3 Mallett
4 Ponder
5 J Johnson
6 Devlin
7 Keenum
8 Kaepernick
9 Enderle
10 Moore

Mr. Offseason
07-12-2010, 12:24 PM
That's my job, TNF, you know it. Renner isn't eligible either.

But he's the first QB in 2012 or 2013. You know that.

I am praying that he starts over Yates this year... like hardcore praying. I can't watch him check down during any more 2 minute drills. I'll have an aneurysm.

And for those of you who are high on Mallett, I guess I'm just not there yet. I haven't seen the leadership/clutch side of him I suppose. I have seen some things I'd like him to improve on though. I am going to re-watch the LSU-Arkansas game and pay close attention to him, even though I know it was one of his more turbulent performances. I am very excited to see him this year, I just don't like him as much as some do on here.

TACKLE
07-12-2010, 05:55 PM
I gotta do some more work in evaluating the late round prospects so here is my Top 7.

1. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
2. Jake Locker, Washington
3. Christian Ponder, Florida State
4. Nathan Enderle, Idaho
5. Andrew Luck, Stanford
6. Jerrod Johnson, Texas A&M
7. Pat Delvin, Delaware

princefielder28
07-12-2010, 07:19 PM
I'd like to hear why people like Enderle over Johnson? I love Enderle as much as anyone, but you compare the two and both have appealing skill sets and have shown flashes of real ability. Johnson, though, has shown more consistency against a much higher level of competition.

TACKLE
07-12-2010, 07:28 PM
I'd like to hear why people like Enderle over Johnson? I love Enderle as much as anyone, but you compare the two and both have appealing skill sets and have shown flashes of real ability. Johnson, though, has shown more consistency against a much higher level of competition.

Both have legitimate NFL talent but both struggle with consistency too. What put Enderle over Johnson (who I am a fan of) was his ability to get the ball out of hands quickly. Not only because of his quick, compact release but he doesn't hold on to the ball too long and does a nice job with his timing and anticipation. Although I agree that Johnson has proven more against top competition, he tends to hold onto the ball a little too long. Athletic QB's tend to have this issue and I think it was a big reason for his inconsistencies. I like both guys a lot and do think that both guys have the potential to develop into NFL starters. It's just at this point, I am more confident that Enderle can develop into a the type of passer he needs to be at the next level. But its July, Things can definitely change.

bce
07-12-2010, 07:42 PM
I have a list of rankings for Senior QB's and one that includes Seniors, Juniors and Sophomores on my blog (though the Senior QB rankings list is more recent), but I am curious to see what you guys have to say about this.

Here are my rankings for seniors, juniors and eligible sophomores for the 2011 draft:

1- Jake Locker
2- Christian Ponder
3- Nathan Enderle
4- Andrew Luck
5- Ryan Mallett
6- Pat Devlin
7- Kirk Cousins
8- Jerrod Johnson
9- Terrelle Pryor
10- John Brantley

This was hard for me to put together after the top 5, especially since I haven't seen much of Devlin, but I liked what I saw from Cousins last year, and Pryor showed me some ability in the Rose Bowl, though I have yet to review it to take notes on his performance. And John Brantley is on there because I liked what I saw in some highlights a Florida fan showed me, he really does have a rocket.

But when I put together my rankings of Senior QB's I was not very impressed with the crop we have here. Outside of Locker, Ponder, Enderle, Devlin and, from a developmental standpoint, Jerrod Johnson, the QB class is not very good in my estimation. Obviously there is a lot of time for those things to change, but I don't like what I see when I look at my rankings of Senior QB's, as a lot of them project to be back-ups or possibly 6th or 7th round picks in my estimation.

So even though it's early, I thought I'd see how you guys ranked the QB's in this class. And if you get a chance, check out my blog. The link is in my signature. I've been watching games when I get a chance, taking notes and writing up my thoughts and posting them on my blog. Thanks in advance if you can make it over!

-Mr. Offseason

You have one guy who wasnt good enough to beat out darryl clark (and please no flacco that was political). You have the guy from idaho who wasnt all that spectacular as#3. And finally a guy who has never played in game before in john brantley. Kirk cousin ahead of jarrod johnson? certainly not between the white lines or from a physical standpoint.

The two most productive with the best physical skill sets are mallett and johnson. Terrelle pryor is the one who wins the most, the best intangibles.

I dont quite get these other guys they were neither the most productive nor the most physcially gifted.

bce
07-12-2010, 07:44 PM
the lack of Jerrod Johnson in this thread is disturbing.


#3 on bce's board. behind mallett and RG 3

Mr. Offseason
07-12-2010, 08:01 PM
Production and physical ability are not the be all, end all for QB's. Spread offense QB's can put up huge numbers, and some teams will beat up on D-II teams and pad their stats. JaMarcus Russell has tons of ability, Mike Vick could throw the ball a mile and run a 40 faster than 95% of the players on NFL teams.

How a player reads a defense, how he makes decisions, how accurate he is and how much poise he has in the pocket are much more important than physical ability in my opinion. Production is important, but only to a point.

Plus this is a July list, it's not like this is etched in stone.

bce
07-12-2010, 08:13 PM
But jarrod johnson and mallett dont play in spread offenses, and just because they have great physical skills doesnt maske them jamarcus russell. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom that anyone who has great physical ability if its convenient is now the guy who has pancakes with coedeine syrup with a side of hash for breakfast. And every mid level talent is drew brees.

Whats poise in the pocket standing there all day with no one near you throwing to wide open guys or getting blitzkrieged by the florida and texas defenses and still performing at a high level.

This is "evaluation based on intangibles". You cant quantify it, youre not in the play book so you cant know what theyre supposed to be doing, you cant be in their mind or see what it is they are seeing. Youre speculating that these players have mental abilities on the football field that make them superior to players who actually have performed at a high level on the field. Youre evaluating based on intangibles when you couldnt possibly have any idea about what it is youre evaluating.

What happens between the white lines is the proof of poise and accuracy and decision making not some psychological evaluation.

Mr. Offseason
07-12-2010, 08:45 PM
First of all, it's Jerrod Johnson, not Jarrod.

Second of all, I did not insinuate that anyone who has great physical ability will be JaMarcus Russell. But if someone who can throw the ball a mile, has questionable fundamentals and doesn't make very good decisions then yes, I will compare him to JaMarcus Russell. Especially if the guy has weight issues.

Third of all, no-where in my post did it say that someone without much physical ability will be the next Drew Brees. That was a clear shot at Christian Ponder, but I think you are seriously underselling Christian Ponder's physical ability. He may not have a rocket for an arm, but he is more athletic than you are giving him credit for. Plus he is very accurate and makes a lot of good decisions.

And finally, just because you can't quantify someone's intangibles doesn't mean that you can't evaluate them. It doesn't take a genius to recognize the fact that Tebow has great leadership capability, and you can evaluate other players' ability to lead and play well when the pressure is on. Not only that, but intangibles aren't the only important thing to me when I am evaluating prospects. They are certainly critical, but I find it funny that you think Terrelle Pryor has great intangibles because he "wins". Does that mean Mike Vick had great intangibles? That Greg McElroy has great intangibles? No, it doesn't. It can be an indicator, but it doesn't mean Pryor reads defenses well, it sure as hell doesn't mean he makes good decisions.

mario
07-13-2010, 03:43 AM
but it doesn't mean Pryor reads defenses well, it sure as hell doesn't mean he makes good decisions.
But you know, you're not in the OSU playbook...what about if certainly offensive play is supposed to end in an interception? TP is a geniouzzzzz

brat316
07-13-2010, 05:22 AM
Qb is such a hard position to evaluate. Cause you don't know what ticking in the Qb's head during a game situation. Maybe in the film room he can see everything but once on the field, his brains turn to mush.

Physical tools you can see from watching, but the biggest part of having a successful qb is the mental part. Is the qb putting in work in prepping for the season and game by sitting a in a room and going through plays and film?

RealityCheck
07-13-2010, 08:41 AM
#3 on bce's board. behind mallett and RG 3
Your board doesn't count. Isaiah Pead, ladies and gentlemen, Isaiah Pead.

Mr. Offseason
07-13-2010, 10:09 AM
But you know, you're not in the OSU playbook...what about if certainly offensive play is supposed to end in an interception? TP is a geniouzzzzz

lmao. Who knew TP's football IQ was that high. I never would have guessed it.

Qb is such a hard position to evaluate. Cause you don't know what ticking in the Qb's head during a game situation. Maybe in the film room he can see everything but once on the field, his brains turn to mush.

Physical tools you can see from watching, but the biggest part of having a successful qb is the mental part. Is the qb putting in work in prepping for the season and game by sitting a in a room and going through plays and film?

1. your avatar cracks me up, I don't really know why.
2. Agreed about QB. But I would much prefer a guy with less physical ability and a great work ethic to someone with tons of physical ability that doesn't like to watch film. Physical ability is important because you can't be a statue and have a noodle arm, but it's not critical like BCE seems to think it is. At least not in my opinion.

bce
07-14-2010, 05:18 PM
First of all, it's Jerrod Johnson, not Jarrod.

Second of all, I did not insinuate that anyone who has great physical ability will be JaMarcus Russell. But if someone who can throw the ball a mile, has questionable fundamentals and doesn't make very good decisions then yes, I will compare him to JaMarcus Russell. Especially if the guy has weight issues.

Third of all, no-where in my post did it say that someone without much physical ability will be the next Drew Brees. That was a clear shot at Christian Ponder, but I think you are seriously underselling Christian Ponder's physical ability. He may not have a rocket for an arm, but he is more athletic than you are giving him credit for. Plus he is very accurate and makes a lot of good decisions.

And finally, just because you can't quantify someone's intangibles doesn't mean that you can't evaluate them. It doesn't take a genius to recognize the fact that Tebow has great leadership capability, and you can evaluate other players' ability to lead and play well when the pressure is on. Not only that, but intangibles aren't the only important thing to me when I am evaluating prospects. They are certainly critical, but I find it funny that you think Terrelle Pryor has great intangibles because he "wins". Does that mean Mike Vick had great intangibles? That Greg McElroy has great intangibles? No, it doesn't. It can be an indicator, but it doesn't mean Pryor reads defenses well, it sure as hell doesn't mean he makes good decisions.


Because you cant know if they have good intangibles unless youre in the playbook and know on every play exactly whats supposed to be happening.

Intangibles is winning. Every nfl qbs intangible grade is based on how much they win. Greg mcelroy i would say does have great intangibles. terrel pryor does have great intangibles. Theyre winners. They lead their team on the field to victories. Greg mcelroy lacks physical ability comparatively to the nfl level, thats why hes not a top prospect. Now if you only evaluate on intangibles, then greg mcelroy is the #1 qb. But it doesnt mean greg mcelroy is the best nfl qb. Its physical ability then intangibles in the pecking order.

No one respects a leader who doesnt win football games in the nfl. leadership and all these other intangibles are in direct correlation with on field success. Intangibles are proven between the white lines. You can watch the most film and be the hardest worker have the best footwork etc etc etc but if it doesnt translate on the field then you dont have great intangibles.