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7DnBrnc53
07-11-2010, 12:55 AM
This thread is about plays that altered the course of a franchise.

For example, the Tom Brady injury in 2008(that altered not only New England's future, but possibly also Denver's and several other teams as well).

Also, I have another one: Vernon Perry's FG block and return against San Diego in the 1979 playoffs. The Chargers were about to go up 10-0 in the second quarter when Oiler Safety Vernon Perry changed the momentum of the entire game with a FG block and a 50+ yard return to around the SD 30. The Oilers were able to win the game 17-14, and go on to Pittsburgh for the AFC Title game.

If that FG is made, the Chargers probably would have gone on to win against a banged-up Oiler team that was missing Pastorini and Earl Campbell. The next week, they would have hosted Pittsburgh. Both teams had 12-4 records, but the Chargers beat the Steelers 35-7 at home that year. If they would have won, they would have played the Rams that year in the SB, who they defeated 40-16 that year in Week 8. A SB win for the Chargers in 79 may have been the start of a new dynasty. I think that they could have repeated the next year, and maybe that would have led to Fred Dean and JJ getting new deals before the 1981 season. If Dean doesn't go to SF, they may have had a harder time winning the SB, and maybe Cincy, Dallas, or the Chargers win that year. As a result, the Niner Dynasty might never have gotten off the ground, and the West Coast Offense wouldn't have been as widespread.

VUBlacknGold
07-11-2010, 12:59 AM
Tuck Rule = Rudy Cool!!!!


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/BradyTuck.jpg

yo123
07-11-2010, 01:08 AM
Gary Anderson. That's all I'm going to say.

yourfavestoner
07-11-2010, 02:07 AM
QI6TkS-WN0I

7xMDIcsUMmA

d-LmPFHgE3k

BCHZFwDCNyA

Paranoidmoonduck
07-11-2010, 02:29 AM
For me, the most obvious is the tuck rule. If that call doesn't screw Oakland and the team at least plays competitively against Pittsburgh (they would have), I'm betting Gruden doesn't get traded. Then, in 2002, maybe the playbook doesn't open up as much, but Oakland would have still fielded that amazing team. Whether they win the Superbowl or not, who knows, but they wouldn't have fallen on hard times with such a *thump*.

prock
07-11-2010, 02:32 AM
Gary Anderson. That's all I'm going to say.

My balls, they are being smahed....

Xonraider
07-11-2010, 09:26 AM
For me, the most obvious is the tuck rule. If that call doesn't screw Oakland and the team at least plays competitively against Pittsburgh (they would have), I'm betting Gruden doesn't get traded. Then, in 2002, maybe the playbook doesn't open up as much, but Oakland would have still fielded that amazing team. Whether they win the Superbowl or not, who knows, but they wouldn't have fallen on hard times with such a *thump*.

Yeah not only that but without it maybe the Patriots would go on to become a different team in the future. You never really know.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
07-11-2010, 10:17 AM
January 7th, 1996 - It's cold in Kansas City. Really cold. Air temp of 11* with a strong wind blowing to -9* wind chill. The Chiefs are playing in the Divisional Round of the NFL Playoffs. They finished the 1995 season 13-3, best record in the NFL, and have locked up homefield advantage throughout the playoffs. The Chiefs are heavy favorites over the Colts. Lin Frickin Elliott (his name has become a curse word in KC. It's very close to how Ray Finklestien is treated in his hometown.) misses 3 FGs during the game. One from 35, one from 39 and one from 42 yds away. All 3 very makeable. All three very much missed!! Chiefs lose to the Colts 10-7. We had one of the best defenses in the NFL and who knows what could have been. Those 3 missed FGs stick out in my mind as the Chiefs biggest missed opportunity

That was the beginning of the end for Schottenhiemer in KC. Granted he lasted another couple seasons, but you could tell thingsd were different. It also brought back to light his inability to "win the big games". Just or not, it's his legacy.

7DnBrnc53
07-11-2010, 12:02 PM
January 7th, 1996 - It's cold in Kansas City. Really cold. Air temp of 11* with a strong wind blowing to -9* wind chill. The Chiefs are playing in the Divisional Round of the NFL Playoffs. They finished the 1995 season 13-3, best record in the NFL, and have locked up homefield advantage throughout the playoffs. The Chiefs are heavy favorites over the Colts. Lin Frickin Elliott (his name has become a curse word in KC. It's very close to how Ray Finklestien is treated in his hometown.) misses 3 FGs during the game. One from 35, one from 39 and one from 42 yds away. All 3 very makeable. All three very much missed!! Chiefs lose to the Colts 10-7. We had one of the best defenses in the NFL and who knows what could have been. Those 3 missed FGs stick out in my mind as the Chiefs biggest missed opportunity

That was the beginning of the end for Schottenhiemer in KC. Granted he lasted another couple seasons, but you could tell thingsd were different. It also brought back to light his inability to "win the big games". Just or not, it's his legacy.

I think that the Steelers would have beaten them the next week, anyway. They were the better team, and playing on the road in an AFC Title game would have made a difference. They tended to choke a little bit at home in the playoffs under Cowher. Also, I think that the 95 Chiefs were a paper tiger. That team had no business being 13-3.

Don Vito
07-11-2010, 02:19 PM
The Tuck Rule call in the Snow Bowl game a very obvious one. Two teams that had lots of talent and promise that went in very different directions during the next decade.

Another huge one is Mo Lewis knocking out Drew Bledsoe setting the stage for Brady

David Tyree's catch in the Pats/NYG Super Bowl

Music City Miracle

Drew Brees' shoulder injury on that hit

MidwayMonster31
07-11-2010, 02:46 PM
Does preseason count? If so, Trent Green getting his ACL torn, opening the door for Kurt Warner.

FuzzyGopher
07-11-2010, 02:53 PM
Drew Brees' shoulder injury on that hit

I'm just curious on this one. As I remember he was as good as gone anyway as it was the last year of his contract and the Chargers wanted Rivers to be the starter.

RealityCheck
07-11-2010, 03:16 PM
David Tyree's out of nowhere catch in February 2008, which ruined the most perfect season in sports history.

Don Vito
07-11-2010, 04:31 PM
I'm just curious on this one. As I remember he was as good as gone anyway as it was the last year of his contract and the Chargers wanted Rivers to be the starter.

I thought the injury was before Rivers was drafted but I guess I was wrong good call

NY+Giants=NYG
07-11-2010, 04:40 PM
David Tyree's out of nowhere catch in February 2008, which ruined the most perfect season in sports history.

I won't go that far. As a Giants fan, it was a great and memorable play, but let's keep it in perspective. That play only got us a first down. From 3-5 to 1st and 10 on the Pats side of the field. After that, they still had a 3rd and long on us, and chances to stop us. We still had to score. It's not like Tyree caught it in the endzone, to win it. We still had to score, and they still had chances to stop us. It was a great play and memorable, perhaps even epic. But at the end of the day, it only gave us a first down.

hockey619
07-11-2010, 05:29 PM
I thought the injury was before Rivers was drafted but I guess I was wrong good call



Good chance hes a Dolphin now instead of a Saint if his shoulder isnt hurt. They took Culpepper because they feared the shoulder injury would ruin Brees.

Don Vito
07-11-2010, 05:36 PM
Jesus that was a lot longer ago than I remembered, the Culpepper signing was a very big deal at the time for Miami

Bengalsrocket
07-12-2010, 03:15 AM
A lot of the good ones getting mentioned. An obscure one I've been thinking about is when Flutie got benched back in 1999 by Wade Phillips. I'm not saying Flutie was an amazing QB or anything, but he was doing some good things for them that season and he shouldn't have been pulled for Rob Johnson in my opinion.

A recent game that changed the Bengals would be that dreadful play off game in the 2005-2006 season when Palmer went down.

Ness
07-12-2010, 03:37 AM
This thread is about plays that altered the course of a franchise.

For example, the Tom Brady injury in 2008(that altered not only New England's future, but possibly also Denver's and several other teams as well).



I don't see how this is a pivotal play in NFL history...seeing as how New England went on to have a great record that season and this past season made the playoffs like they always do. Brady is still playing at a high level and the Patriots are practically a lock to win the division practically every single season. And they'll most likely do it again. I wouldn't be surprised if they won the Super Bowl yet again. New England really hasn't changed ever since Tom Brady's injury, and it didn't really open the door for anyone else wide open, especially in their division, or end the Patriots reign as a good team in the NFL.

Seamus2602
07-12-2010, 03:41 AM
If your talking about the Patriots you would have to think that Mo Lewis' hit on Drew Bledsoe changed NFL history more than the hit on Brady 2 years ago.

fenikz
07-12-2010, 04:25 AM
Steelers not hiring Ken Whisenhunt as their HC

Seamus2602
07-12-2010, 05:17 AM
From a Colts point of view the 2006 AFC Divisional game. With 80 seconds to go the Steelers, leading by 3, got the ball on the 2 yard line. Brackett popped the ball lose, Nick Harper recovered and instead of doing the sensible thing of getting a blocker he decided to run straight at Ben Rothlesberger. In the end it came down to a Mike Vanderjagdt Field Goal - the "He Missed It" Field Goal. If either of those plays had gone to Colts way then the Colts would probably have won the Superbowl that year, playing a poor Denver team in the AFC Championship game and then a poor Seahawks team in the Superbowl.

SuperMcGee
07-12-2010, 08:55 AM
^ That sig makes me happy, sadly.

But yeah, it's been mentioned. The most crucial single play to define a team's fortunes and legacy. Ouch.

7DnBrnc53
07-12-2010, 12:08 PM
I don't see how this is a pivotal play in NFL history...seeing as how New England went on to have a great record that season and this past season made the playoffs like they always do. Brady is still playing at a high level and the Patriots are practically a lock to win the division practically every single season. And they'll most likely do it again. I wouldn't be surprised if they won the Super Bowl yet again. New England really hasn't changed ever since Tom Brady's injury, and it didn't really open the door for anyone else wide open, especially in their division, or end the Patriots reign as a good team in the NFL.

Well, if Brady doesn't get hurt, Cassel doesn't play. And that probably would mean that Cutler is still in Denver, and Tebow is with another team.

zachsaints52
07-12-2010, 12:34 PM
The Saints were on their own 25-yard line looking at second down and 10. Quarterback Aaron Brooks passed the ball to the right side of the field to receiver Donté Stallworth, who caught the pass at midfield. Stallworth then bounced off a tackle and turned inside and broke two more tackles. The clock had already reached zero, and Stallworth pitched the ball to the 34-yard line to Michael Lewis who ran the ball to the 25-yard line of Jacksonville. He then turned and pitched the ball to Deuce McAllister, who ran to the Jaguars' 20-yard line. McAllister then pitched the ball to the right side of the field to Jerome Pathon, who caught the ball at the 24-yard line of Jacksonville. Brooks, who had hustled all the way upfield, then laid a block on the last Jaguars defender and Pathon dove into the end-zone.

There was a lengthy delay while the officials determined that all of the ball transfers were indeed legal laterals. All the Saints needed was a John Carney extra point to send the game into overtime.



Guess what happened? Cost us a chance at playoffs that year. First ever missed PAT by Carney.

Mr. Goosemahn
07-12-2010, 12:43 PM
Bernard Pollard taking out Brady's knee.

Brady went out, Cassell went in, he started to play well, then McDaniels went to Denver and Pioli to Chiefs. McDaniels wanted Cassell because he liked the way he played in his system, which caused Cutler to want a trade. Pioli then got the man he wanted in Cassel for the chiefs, which allowed them to not draft a QB early in the first and take both Tyson Jackson last year and Eric Berry this year. Cutler was dealt to Chicago, who hasn't had a first round pick in the past two years. Chicago, being the graveyard for QB's that it is, got to watch a very inconsistent, and at times downright despicable, series of games from Cutler. Denver, meanwhile, wound up with Orton and multiple first round picks, two of which were used to draft players that have been somewhat disappointing, and another pick used to draft the most controversial prospect the NFL has seen in a while; this coming after they also acquired the once-talented but scarcely-allowed-to-perform Brady Quinn. The Tebow pick will probably define McDaniels future career. If he develops well, McDaniels is a genius. If he busts, as many think he will, McDaniels is the biggest doofus of a HC in recent history.

Pollard got released from the Chiefs and got a nice deal from Houston, where he surprised many and played well. He then went on to participate in the play that resulted in Wes Welkers season-ending injury, once again seriously damaging the knee of a key Patriots player. As was the case two years ago, this loss ultimately cost the Patriots a true chance to become champions.

And it all happened because Bernard Pollard was either tripped, pushed down, or played dirty, and injured Tom Brady's knee.

Ness
07-12-2010, 02:08 PM
Well, if Brady doesn't get hurt, Cassel doesn't play. And that probably would mean that Cutler is still in Denver, and Tebow is with another team.

I suppose that's true. I probably would have realized it if Cutler, Cassel, and Tebow had actually done something like play at a high level all of a sudden. But if you think about it, nothing has really changed between the Patriots, Broncos, Chiefs, or even Bears if you want to throw them in. Then again, it's only been one season.

7DnBrnc53
07-12-2010, 03:38 PM
Another pivotal play happened in Week 4 of the 1990 season, which, quite possibly, could have been the most pivotal play of the 90's.

The 2-1 Bills and 2-1 Broncos met in Rich Stadium for an important AFC game. Denver was on a two-game winning streak after losing at the Raiders on opening day. The Bills were 2-1, but their loss was a 30-7 blowout at Miami in Week 2, a game that saw people like Bruce Smith and Darryl Talley being pulled early, much to their displeasure(Talley talks about this on the 90 Bills Missing Rings episode).

The year before, Buffalo was known as the "Bickering Bills", as they struggled to a 9-7 campaign and a first-round playoff exit in Cleveland. That Miami loss seemed to bring those issues to the forefront again. And when Denver jumped out to a 21-9 lead early in the fourth quarter, the game seemed over. Darryl Talley said that he was wondering when the starters were going to be pulled. Denver had a short FG attempt that would have put the game away. Then, this happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSzUzcg8EdM

The Bills would go on to win the game 29-28 in dramatic fashion, and then win two more home games with fourth quarter comebacks against the Raiders and Jets to run their record to 5-1. That winning streak, it could be argued, propelled them to SB XXV, and then to the next three Super Bowls as well. All because of one FG returned for a TD.

Ness
07-12-2010, 07:48 PM
Another pivotal play happened in Week 4 of the 1990 season, which, quite possibly, could have been the most pivotal play of the 90's.

The 2-1 Bills and 2-1 Broncos met in Rich Stadium for an important AFC game. Denver was on a two-game winning streak after losing at the Raiders on opening day. The Bills were 2-1, but their loss was a 30-7 blowout at Miami in Week 2, a game that saw people like Bruce Smith and Darryl Talley being pulled early, much to their displeasure(Talley talks about this on the 90 Bills Missing Rings episode).

The year before, Buffalo was known as the "Bickering Bills", as they struggled to a 9-7 campaign and a first-round playoff exit in Cleveland. That Miami loss seemed to bring those issues to the forefront again. And when Denver jumped out to a 21-9 lead early in the fourth quarter, the game seemed over. Darryl Talley said that he was wondering when the starters were going to be pulled. Denver had a short FG attempt that would have put the game away. Then, this happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSzUzcg8EdM

The Bills would go on to win the game 29-28 in dramatic fashion, and then win two more home games with fourth quarter comebacks against the Raiders and Jets to run their record to 5-1. That winning streak, it could be argued, propelled them to SB XXV, and then to the next three Super Bowls as well. All because of one FG returned for a TD.

Biscuit. Really underrated player.

Bucs_Rule
07-13-2010, 08:42 AM
Drew Bledsoe injury that lead to Tom Brady starting.

It probably would have happened anyway, but the Patroits supporting cast might not have been as dominant by that point and could have missed out on their rings.

yodabear
07-13-2010, 09:05 AM
Titans fans, just skip this post....I truly apologize......

http://bill.kall700sports.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/one-yard-short.jpg

Splat
07-13-2010, 09:36 AM
65 toss power trap. :)

yodabear
07-13-2010, 09:55 AM
U know what I feel bad for doing that to Titans fans, so here is my torture and the beginning of the dynasty of the 2000s.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0801/super.bowl.heroes/images/vinatieri.adam.jpg

7DnBrnc53
07-14-2010, 01:11 PM
The Lions-Bears game in 2000 when Edinger made a 50+ yard FG and sent the Lions home for the holidays. That led to the Millen-Morninhweg era, and the beginning of the end for Detroit.

LizardState
07-14-2010, 05:47 PM
Tuck Rule.

More Foxboro hijinks in the snow: when the Pats HC had the snowplow driver (a parolee from the Massachusetts state pen) clear a path for the FG kicker in the inch-deep snow on the field for a NE 3-pointer.

Hoculi's stupidity, a bogus penalty that cost the Bolts a W & launched the Steelers toward a SB win.

The Jets QB awarded a TD on a QB sneak that was > a yard short of the EZ.

Tony Romo's fumbled snap for the extra point in Seattle that marked the beginning of the Dallas playoffs drought.

5-6 plays resulting in bad calls against Seattle in the Steelers SB win that caused a Seahawks fan to hold up the sign in the stands THE STEELERS 12TH MAN WEARS A STRIPED SHIRT.

When the Steelers called "heads" in the pregame coin toss 2 decades ago, it came up heads & their opponents got the call. Steelers team captains came to subsequent coin tosses that year carrying signs reading I CALL HEADS.

RaiderNation
07-14-2010, 06:34 PM
I hate how most of these plays are when the Raiders get screwed :(

7DnBrnc53
07-14-2010, 07:32 PM
I hate how most of these plays are when the Raiders get screwed :(

Well, here's a game where they didn't: The 1976 AFC Divisional Playoff game against the Patriots when Sugar Bear Hamilton got called for a roughing the passer penalty on third and 18. That play led to 21-17 Raider win, and they went on to win their next two games and take the Super Bowl crown.

That turned out to be devastating for New England. A young, promising team that came from nowhere would never win a playoff game, and it took nine years for the franchise to win one, only to be severely pwned by the Bears in the Super Bowl.

If New England holds them on the next play, they probably go to Pittsburgh and win since Franco and Rocky didn't play, and they beat them earlier that year in Pittsburgh with them in the lineup. They would have went on to beat the Vikings as well. That would have changed the franchise's future completely, maybe even to the point where the Belichick and Brady era doesn't exist.

As for Oakland, they would be remembered as one of the best, if not the best, team to never win one. 1976 was their best chance. I don't think that they were going to beat Denver in 77, and the powerful Steelers regained their crown the next two years. New England also would have been a factor with the confidence of a Super Bowl win, and Chuck Fairbanks may not have deserted them to go back to college in 1978.

Besides, that Raider team started to break up in the late-70's, anyway. People like Biletnikoff, Sistrunk, Dr. Death, Atkinson, and Villapiano would be gone through cuts, trades, or retirement. And, no SB win in 76 may have hastened Madden's and Stabler's departures as well.

yourfavestoner
07-14-2010, 07:50 PM
Well, here's a game where they didn't: The 1976 AFC Divisional Playoff game against the Patriots when Sugar Bear Hamilton got called for a roughing the passer penalty on third and 18. That play led to 21-17 Raider win, and they went on to win their next two games and take the Super Bowl crown.

That turned out to be devastating for New England. A young, promising team that came from nowhere would never win a playoff game, and it took nine years for the franchise to win one, only to be severely pwned by the Bears in the Super Bowl.

If New England holds them on the next play, they probably go to Pittsburgh and win since Franco and Rocky didn't play, and they beat them earlier that year in Pittsburgh with them in the lineup. They would have went on to beat the Vikings as well. That would have changed the franchise's future completely, maybe even to the point where the Belichick and Brady era doesn't exist.

As for Oakland, they would be remembered as one of the best, if not the best, team to never win one. 1976 was their best chance. I don't think that they were going to beat Denver in 77, and the powerful Steelers regained their crown the next two years. New England also would have been a factor with the confidence of a Super Bowl win, and Chuck Fairbanks may not have deserted them to go back to college in 1978.

Besides, that Raider team started to break up in the late-70's, anyway. People like Biletnikoff, Sistrunk, Dr. Death, Atkinson, and Villapiano would be gone through cuts, trades, or retirement. And, no SB win in 76 may have hastened Madden's and Stabler's departures as well.

Yup, had the Steelers been completely healthy in 1976, they probably would have won the SB that year. They fielded the best D in NFL history that season. Their offense was just absolutely decimated by injuries.

TACKLE
07-14-2010, 07:54 PM
Yup, had the Steelers been completely healthy in 1976, they probably would have won the SB that year. They fielded the best D in NFL history that season. Their offense was just absolutely decimated by injuries.

haha. The 1976 Raiders Americas Game is on right now.

The way their offense shut down without those RB's only adds to notion that Terry Bradshaw is the most overrated QB of all-time.

Brent
07-14-2010, 11:36 PM
haha. The 1976 Raiders Americas Game is on right now.
look at how many HoFers were on those Madden Raiders teams. It was un-*******-real.

Ness
07-14-2010, 11:50 PM
Steve Young's famous run against the Vikings in 1988. If Steve Young doesn't make that run and win the game the 49ers don't make the playoffs and don't go on to win the Super Bowl.

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/10/05/sp-steve06_0495051715.jpg

vikes_28
07-15-2010, 01:24 AM
My balls, they are being smahed....

This one didn't piss me off as bad as this last years. Probably because it means a little more to me now. And the fact that Favre has done the same thing twice.

yo123
07-15-2010, 01:25 AM
This one didn't piss me off as bad as this last years. Probably because it means a little more to me now. And the fact that Favre has done the same thing twice.



98 hurt more. I was too young to understand then that the Vikings are a cursed franchise. Also we were the most talented team in the league that year by a fair margin and I don't think that was the case last year.

7DnBrnc53
07-15-2010, 02:52 AM
Steve Young's famous run against the Vikings in 1988. If Steve Young doesn't make that run and win the game the 49ers don't make the playoffs and don't go on to win the Super Bowl.

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/10/05/sp-steve06_0495051715.jpg

Agreed. If the Vikes win, they take the Central, and get the home field with a 12-4 record. If they go and win the Super Bowl over Cincinnati, they don't trade for Herschel Walker the next year, and the Dallas run in the early-90's doesn't happen unless some other team is stupid enough to give up that much. However, even if someone else would have, Minnesota could have positioned itself to combat Dallas in the draft. They could have gotten Emmitt Smith or Rodney Hampton in the first round in 1990, they could have gotten Favre the next year, and they could have drafted Carl Pickens or Levon Kirkland in the 1992 first round. We may be talking about a Minnesota dynasty instead of Dallas.

XxXdragonXxX
07-15-2010, 09:15 AM
1998 Seahawks, Vinny Testaverde scores a TD with his helmet. Seahawks miss the playoffs, Dennis Erickson gets fired. Mike Holmgren takes over and leads the Seahawks to their only 5 division titles and only Superbowl appearance. That play was also a major factor in getting instant replay reviews back in the NFL.

descendency
07-15-2010, 03:41 PM
I really hate to play "what ifs" because lots of things can change the course of what happened later by simply changing one event.

However, my "what if" is what if Rodney Harrison dislodges the ball from David Tyree. What if the Colts never come back from that 21-6 beat down that was happening in the AFC CG and then the Patriots go on to beat the Bears?

I think Joseph Addai's run up the middle to end the 3rd quarter and Tyree's catch change the landscape of the Hall of Fame quite a bit. Peyton Manning goes from great QB to a guy who can't win the big game. Bill Belichick becomes the only coach to win 5 Super Bowls (as a head coach) and 7 total. Tom Brady's career post season record goes from 14-4 to 17-2. And so on. I know people hate the Patriots, but two plays could have literally ended the "Who is the greatest QB/Coach?" debate. Oh and something about a perfect season...

Then on the other side, I think every Oakland fan has their "Tuck Rule" pictures ready. Quite a few other ones as well.

Ness
07-15-2010, 04:18 PM
This catch by Terrell Owens in the 1998 NFC Wild Card game against the Packers prevented some change and made some other changes.

At the time there was media speculation that if the 49ers had lost that game, Steve Mariucci would be fired and Mike Holmgren would eventually replace him as San Francisco's head coach. But since the 49ers won, Mariucci kept his job for another four years. While on the other side, the Packers lost Holmgren, who went to Seattle and propel them to success. Andy Reid, a Packers assistant at the time, was hired the next day after the loss. Reid has stated that Philadelphia may have not waited much longer to hire someone, and has also mentioned that had Owens not made that catch he would not be the head coach of the Eagles today.

Some also think this game marked the end of the 49ers dynasty. Steve Young was lost the following season and forced to retire. The 49ers struggled through a 4-12 season and lost a good amount of leaders like Tim McDonald, Merton Hanks, and Lee Woodall. Both teams wouldn't make it back to the playoffs for another two seasons, where they met again in an NFC Wild Card game.

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200905/5333cd80417b5f1d09933af8a9f48019.jpg

LonghornsLegend
07-15-2010, 04:30 PM
Tuck Rule = Rudy Cool!!!!


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/BradyTuck.jpg


This.



There are probably alot more, but this spiraled so many things into motion afterwards. The demise of the Raiders team, Gruden getting traded, the Pats dynasty, and the fact that they made a rule after this play specifically for it.




I also have to somewhat agree with Ness on "the catch", by TO. The pivitol play there was when Jerry Rice fumbled the ball and they called him down. That changes so many things, not just the outcome of the game. Some people feel TO was born when he caught that TD pass, and whoever won that game was pretty much a lock to win the SB also.

7DnBrnc53
07-15-2010, 05:05 PM
This catch by Terrell Owens in the 1998 NFC Wild Card game against the Packers prevented some change and made some other changes.

At the time there was media speculation that if the 49ers had lost that game, Steve Mariucci would be fired and Mike Holmgren would eventually replace him as San Francisco's head coach. But since the 49ers won, Mariucci kept his job for another four years. While on the other side, the Packers lost Holmgren, who went to Seattle and propel them to success. Andy Reid, a Packers assistant at the time, was hired the next day after the loss. Reid has stated that Philadelphia may have not waited much longer to hire someone, and has also mentioned that had Owens not made that catch he would not be the head coach of the Eagles today.

Some also think this game marked the end of the 49ers dynasty. Steve Young was lost the following season and forced to retire. The 49ers struggled through a 4-12 season and lost a good amount of leaders like Tim McDonald, Merton Hanks, and Lee Woodall. Both teams wouldn't make it back to the playoffs for another two seasons, where they met again in an NFC Wild Card game.

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200905/5333cd80417b5f1d09933af8a9f48019.jpg

Actually, the game that marked the end of the "49er Dynasty" may have been the 1995 NFC Divisional Playoff loss to the Packers. The Niners have never been real Super Bowl contenders after that. They did manage to have three more good years in the Young-Rice era, but they never were real threats to win it all. A weak division made them look better than they really were.

Here is an interesting writeup about that game:

http://www.49erhaters.com/gsum/gb.html


Another pivotal play happened in 1980. The Falcons had a 27-24 lead on the Cowboys late in the fourth quarter. On third down, Too Tall Jones goes down the line of scrimmage and almost jumps offsides, but he is able to stay onside and meet the running back in the hole. The Falcons punt, and Dallas goes down to score and win the game 30-27 on a Danny White TD pass to Drew Pearson.

If Too Tall jumps offsides, Atlanta gets a first down, and probably runs the clock out. That would have set up an Atlanta-Philly matchup for the NFC Title in Atlanta. The Falcons probably would have won that game, and it would have set up an exciting Falcons-Raiders Super Bowl. Win or lose, I see that being a close and exciting game. I don't think that the Falcons would have been as uptight as the Eagles were.

As a result, the future of the Falcons would have been a lot different. Without that spirit-breaking loss to Dallas, I see them having better seasons in 1981 and 82, and coach Leeman Bennett probably doesn't get fired for "taking the team to a plateau". I also think that they could have been playoff contenders for the rest of the 80's, butterflying away the Jerry Glanville era of the early-90's.

Ness
07-15-2010, 05:33 PM
Actually, the game that marked the end of the "49er Dynasty" may have been the 1995 NFC Divisional Playoff loss to the Packers. The Niners have never been real Super Bowl contenders after that. They did manage to have three more good years in the Young-Rice era, but they never were real threats to win it all. A weak division made them look better than they really were.

Here is an interesting writeup about that game:

http://www.49erhaters.com/gsum/gb.html
I'm not going to read a link to a website with an obviously negative bias.

And I disagree about your stance with 1995 being the last season that the 49ers were contenders. Especially when they made it back to the NFC Championship in 1997. And had we went to the Super Bowl that day, I think we would have beaten the Broncos seeing as how we beat them soundly only a few weeks earlier. The only team that really had our number is Green Bay. You can't really name anyone else. Except maybe the Panthers, who we never played in the postseason, but they were only really good for one season...1996. And the weak division angle doesn't really make sense...seeing as once you get to the playoffs you still have to beat the good teams, which the 49ers still had to do to win five championships.

7DnBrnc53
07-15-2010, 10:22 PM
I'm not going to read a link to a website with an obviously negative bias.

And I disagree about your stance with 1995 being the last season that the 49ers were contenders. Especially when they made it back to the NFC Championship in 1997. And had we went to the Super Bowl that day, I think we would have beaten the Broncos seeing as how we beat them soundly only a few weeks earlier. The only team that really had our number is Green Bay. You can't really name anyone else. Except maybe the Panthers, who we never played in the postseason, but they were only really good for one season...1996. And the weak division angle doesn't really make sense...seeing as once you get to the playoffs you still have to beat the good teams, which the 49ers still had to do to win five championships.

1. The Niners did play in a mediocre-to-weak division in the 90's for the most part, especially 1997. Nobody else that year was at or above .500.

2. I don't think that the Niners would have beaten the Broncos in Super Bowl 32. That MNF game doesn't mean much. The Niners were at home, Rice came back, they were honoring Montana, and TD didn't play much in the second half. If they would have played in the Super Bowl, Denver would have stomped on them. It is possible that Shanahan may have had his players kiss SF's butt in the media like they did to Green Bay, but in private, I think that he may have talked up the revenge angle(for SB XXIV and 55-10) and got his players, especially Elway, worked up.

3. I looked through that website, and I don't think that it has a negative bias as much as it is bringing out the truth about how overrated the Niner organization was over the years, especially Eddie Debartolo, who is a piece of trash. I have been saying for years how overrated Montana is. And, that site is right about Brent Jones and how average he was. The Steelers drafted him in 1986, and he couldn't even make their team. And, they didn't have anyone any good playing the position. What does that say?

Ness
07-15-2010, 11:21 PM
1. The Niners did play in a mediocre-to-weak division in the 90's for the most part, especially 1997. Nobody else that year was at or above .500.

2. I don't think that the Niners would have beaten the Broncos in Super Bowl 32. That MNF game doesn't mean much. The Niners were at home, Rice came back, they were honoring Montana, and TD didn't play much in the second half. If they would have played in the Super Bowl, Denver would have stomped on them. It is possible that Shanahan may have had his players kiss SF's butt in the media like they did to Green Bay, but in private, I think that he may have talked up the revenge angle(for SB XXIV and 55-10) and got his players, especially Elway, worked up.

3. I looked through that website, and I don't think that it has a negative bias as much as it is bringing out the truth about how overrated the Niner organization was over the years, especially Eddie Debartolo, who is a piece of trash. I have been saying for years how overrated Montana is. And, that site is right about Brent Jones and how average he was. The Steelers drafted him in 1986, and he couldn't even make their team. And, they didn't have anyone any good playing the position. What does that say?

1. And? The 49ers still had to play difficult teams and defeat them that year. Minnesota, Denver, Tampa Bay and Kansas City were all playoff teams that year. And the weak division argument doesn't really hold water in my book. Especially since the 49ers won a Super Bowl in the 90's against a talented Dallas team. Once you get to the playoffs, you still have to beat the talented teams.

2. So the Broncos would have for sure stomped the 49ers even though they got their tails kicked a few weeks prior. Right, that makes sense. Jerry Rice came back. Montana was honored. So what? That automatically means the Broncos can't win a game? WTF? The Broncos were still a difficult team to play that year. And they didn't have Terrell Davis? Okay. The 49ers didn't have Garrison Hearst the entire game. Stop making excuses for the Broncos and their terrible performance that night. Elway was terribly inaccurate that evening. They were the inferior team that day, and it wouldn't be out of the question that the 49ers defeated the Broncos, had they beat the Packers...especially since they beat them a few weeks prior. I can't believe you're implying that doesn't make sense.

3. Okay so a website that says 49ershaters.com doesn't have a negative bias. LOL wow okay sure. Yes, Brent Jones was cut by the Steelers in the late eighties, who clearly knew what they were doing with their organization at the time. And if you truly believe that Joe Montana and the 49ers organization that won five championships were overrated, then you just can't be helped. I'll tell you, it wasn't luck, that is certain.

Halsey
07-16-2010, 12:17 AM
The opening scene of Blind Side gave a pretty good explanation of a truly pivotal play.

7DnBrnc53
07-17-2010, 05:16 PM
1. And? The 49ers still had to play difficult teams and defeat them that year. Minnesota, Denver, Tampa Bay and Kansas City were all playoff teams that year. And the weak division argument doesn't really hold water in my book. Especially since the 49ers won a Super Bowl in the 90's against a talented Dallas team. Once you get to the playoffs, you still have to beat the talented teams.

2. So the Broncos would have for sure stomped the 49ers even though they got their tails kicked a few weeks prior. Right, that makes sense. Jerry Rice came back. Montana was honored. So what? That automatically means the Broncos can't win a game? WTF? The Broncos were still a difficult team to play that year. And they didn't have Terrell Davis? Okay. The 49ers didn't have Garrison Hearst the entire game. Stop making excuses for the Broncos and their terrible performance that night. Elway was terribly inaccurate that evening. They were the inferior team that day, and it wouldn't be out of the question that the 49ers defeated the Broncos, had they beat the Packers...especially since they beat them a few weeks prior. I can't believe you're implying that doesn't make sense.

3. Okay so a website that says 49ershaters.com doesn't have a negative bias. LOL wow okay sure. Yes, Brent Jones was cut by the Steelers in the late eighties, who clearly knew what they were doing with their organization at the time. And if you truly believe that Joe Montana and the 49ers organization that won five championships were overrated, then you just can't be helped. I'll tell you, it wasn't luck, that is certain.

When I looked at that site, I realized that it was a counter to all of the bandwagon butt kissers that were kissing up to San Francisco in the 80's and 90's. It is the same thing that the Pats get today. Now, maybe that site went a little overboard, like when they said that Ronnie Lott didn't belong in the Hall of Fame, and when they said that Rice is overrated.

However, I commend them because they analyzed Rice's games back then, and came up with their conclusions that way instead of eating the crap the media spoonfed everyone about how Rice and Montana are the best ever, and that Steve Young was the toughest player in the league.

And, I didn't say the Niners were lucky. But the guy did bring up a good point. He said that, in the 80's, most teams had more of a downfield throwing game with a power running game, and that is what defenses were used to. They weren't used to what San Fran was doing offensively. So, nobody really defensed them properly. They used too much zone coverage.

In addition, maybe I made too many excuses for Denver in that Monday Night game, but that doesn't change the fact that they were a different team on SB Sunday than they were that December night in San Francisco. To this day, I still believe that they would have beaten the Niners if they would have played them.

Brent
07-17-2010, 05:24 PM
But the guy did bring up a good point. He said that, in the 80's, most teams had more of a downfield throwing game with a power running game, and that is what defenses were used to. They weren't used to what San Fran was doing offensively. So, nobody really defensed them properly. They used too much zone coverage.
Wait, wait, wait... are you telling me that, because the Niners were pioneering the West Coast Offense, which was created in reaction to the zone, they're some how overrated or that their accomplishments should be diminished?

Ness
07-17-2010, 05:33 PM
When I looked at that site, I realized that it was a counter to all of the bandwagon butt kissers that were kissing up to San Francisco in the 80's and 90's. It is the same thing that the Pats get today. Now, maybe that site went a little overboard, like when they said that Ronnie Lott didn't belong in the Hall of Fame, and when they said that Rice is overrated.

However, I commend them because they analyzed Rice's games back then, and came up with their conclusions that way instead of eating the crap the media spoonfed everyone about how Rice and Montana are the best ever, and that Steve Young was the toughest player in the league.

And, I didn't say the Niners were lucky. But the guy did bring up a good point. He said that, in the 80's, most teams had more of a downfield throwing game with a power running game, and that is what defenses were used to. They weren't used to what San Fran was doing offensively. So, nobody really defensed them properly. They used too much zone coverage.

In addition, maybe I made too many excuses for Denver in that Monday Night game, but that doesn't change the fact that they were a different team on SB Sunday than they were that December night in San Francisco. To this day, I still believe that they would have beaten the Niners if they would have played them.

Media attention is going to come with any champion in sports. Especially when you win consistently for a long time. That can't be helped. So your beef should be with the media, and not the 49ers organization. That is what it sounds like your deal is to me. The franchise was successful and it's not like they cheated. Bill Walsh and his associates were very innovative for their approach. So even if defenses weren't used to what they were doing, it really doesn't matter. On the contrary, a ball club like that should be honored for being innovative in the first place and taking advantage of whatever nuances of football they can. So I don't see why anyone would hold that against them. Like I said, they won fair and square.

As for that website, it's going to have a negative bias no matter how much evidence is put to the opposition and you shouldn't use places like that for a source of reference and as a basis for a conclusion. For a skeptic, there will never be enough proof. Ronnie Lott not in the Hall of Fame? Give me a break. 49ershaters.com should give you a clue to steer away from it.

For Denver against the 49ers in the Super Bowl, we'll never know. You may believe that the 49ers would have lost that day had they made it, and that's fine. I'm just saying it wouldn't be out of the question if the 49ers had defeated them again, this time in the big dance. And I don't think it's out of the question for that to occur.

7DnBrnc53
07-19-2010, 05:51 PM
Wait, wait, wait... are you telling me that, because the Niners were pioneering the West Coast Offense, which was created in reaction to the zone, they're some how overrated or that their accomplishments should be diminished?

The West Coast Offense wasn't created in reaction to the zone. I never said that. And, the Niners didn't pioneer it. Actually, the system that should be called the "West Coast" offense(the one that is now called the "Air Coryell" system) is the one that Sid Gillman pioneered with the AFL Chargers, which is more of a vertical game. Al Davis, a Gillman assistant, took the system to the Raiders.

Here is where Walsh comes in: He was a running backs coach with the 66 Raiders, so, when he went to Cincinnati in 1968 to be an offensive assistant, I imagine that he took the principles of that offense with him. In 1969, the Bengals drafted a QB #1 out of Cincinnati U by the name of Greg Cook. The strong-armed Cook was supposed to be the QB of Walsh's offense for years to come. Then, against the Chiefs, he hurt his shoulder. He played through it the whole season, but in doing so, he tore his rotator cuff.

The archaic surgery procedures couldn't do anything about it, so he ended up retiring in 73 after a few unsuccessful comeback attempts. So, in 1970, Walsh had to move away from the concepts of the original "West Coast" offense because Cook was gone. His QB's would be Sam Wyche and Virgil Carter, who didn't have Cook's arm strength or ability. So, he implemented a short passing game, and used more passes to the backs. That was the beginning of the offense that would benefit QB's like Ken Anderson, Joe Montana, and Steve Young in the future.

Here are some Wikipedia articles(I know that Wiki isn't the best, but these links also have links to other articles):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Offense

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell

Brent
07-19-2010, 06:12 PM
You didnt answer the question. You implied that their accomplishments should be less valued because of the offense they ran. That makes no sense.

7DnBrnc53
07-19-2010, 08:31 PM
You didnt answer the question. You implied that their accomplishments should be less valued because of the offense they ran. That makes no sense.

I know. I was just explaining the origins of the offense, and that the Niners didn't invent it. As for their accomplishments being less valued because of the offense they ran, I will answer that question this way. In some ways, yes, because Walsh's West Coast offense was a little too cheesy and finesse at times. However, there weren't many teams that were stopping it on a consistent basis, so you have to give them credit with what was working for them, as long as it is legal.

Ness
07-19-2010, 09:32 PM
I know. I was just explaining the origins of the offense, and that the Niners didn't invent it. As for their accomplishments being less valued because of the offense they ran, I will answer that question this way. In some ways, yes, because Walsh's West Coast offense was a little too cheesy and finesse at times. However, there weren't many teams that were stopping it on a consistent basis, so you have to give them credit with what was working for them, as long as it is legal.

What does it matter if it works and defeats opponents? And I don't remember there being any set of defined rules for how aesthetically pleasing an offense should look. Not like that should be important in the first place. As long as an offense is effective, that is all that matters.

Job
07-20-2010, 07:56 PM
This thread is about plays that altered the course of a franchise.

For example, the Tom Brady injury in 2008(that altered not only New England's future, but possibly also Denver's and several other teams as well).

Also, I have another one: Vernon Perry's FG block and return against San Diego in the 1979 playoffs. The Chargers were about to go up 10-0 in the second quarter when Oiler Safety Vernon Perry changed the momentum of the entire game with a FG block and a 50+ yard return to around the SD 30. The Oilers were able to win the game 17-14, and go on to Pittsburgh for the AFC Title game.

If that FG is made, the Chargers probably would have gone on to win against a banged-up Oiler team that was missing Pastorini and Earl Campbell. The next week, they would have hosted Pittsburgh. Both teams had 12-4 records, but the Chargers beat the Steelers 35-7 at home that year. If they would have won, they would have played the Rams that year in the SB, who they defeated 40-16 that year in Week 8. A SB win for the Chargers in 79 may have been the start of a new dynasty. I think that they could have repeated the next year, and maybe that would have led to Fred Dean and JJ getting new deals before the 1981 season. If Dean doesn't go to SF, they may have had a harder time winning the SB, and maybe Cincy, Dallas, or the Chargers win that year. As a result, the Niner Dynasty might never have gotten off the ground, and the West Coast Offense wouldn't have been as widespread.

How the **** do you remember your name when you log in?

7DnBrnc53
07-20-2010, 11:33 PM
How the **** do you remember your name when you log in?

What the heck are you talking about?

Job
07-21-2010, 02:11 AM
It looks like the serial number for my PC, which I can't remember.

yourfavestoner
07-21-2010, 10:42 AM
The West Coast Offense wasn't created in reaction to the zone. I never said that. And, the Niners didn't pioneer it. Actually, the system that should be called the "West Coast" offense(the one that is now called the "Air Coryell" system) is the one that Sid Gillman pioneered with the AFL Chargers, which is more of a vertical game. Al Davis, a Gillman assistant, took the system to the Raiders.

Here is where Walsh comes in: He was a running backs coach with the 66 Raiders, so, when he went to Cincinnati in 1968 to be an offensive assistant, I imagine that he took the principles of that offense with him. In 1969, the Bengals drafted a QB #1 out of Cincinnati U by the name of Greg Cook. The strong-armed Cook was supposed to be the QB of Walsh's offense for years to come. Then, against the Chiefs, he hurt his shoulder. He played through it the whole season, but in doing so, he tore his rotator cuff.

The archaic surgery procedures couldn't do anything about it, so he ended up retiring in 73 after a few unsuccessful comeback attempts. So, in 1970, Walsh had to move away from the concepts of the original "West Coast" offense because Cook was gone. His QB's would be Sam Wyche and Virgil Carter, who didn't have Cook's arm strength or ability. So, he implemented a short passing game, and used more passes to the backs. That was the beginning of the offense that would benefit QB's like Ken Anderson, Joe Montana, and Steve Young in the future.

Here are some Wikipedia articles(I know that Wiki isn't the best, but these links also have links to other articles):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Offense

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell

Everyone already knows this story, and you did nothing to answer the question at hand.

Way to regurgitate irrelevant information that most people already know.

7DnBrnc53
07-21-2010, 07:36 PM
Everyone already knows this story, and you did nothing to answer the question at hand.

Way to regurgitate irrelevant information that most people already know.

Whatever you say.

CC.SD
07-21-2010, 07:51 PM
Also, I have another one: Vernon Perry's FG block and return against San Diego in the 1979 playoffs. The Chargers were about to go up 10-0 in the second quarter when Oiler Safety Vernon Perry changed the momentum of the entire game with a FG block and a 50+ yard return to around the SD 30. The Oilers were able to win the game 17-14, and go on to Pittsburgh for the AFC Title game.

If that FG is made, the Chargers probably would have gone on to win against a banged-up Oiler team that was missing Pastorini and Earl Campbell. The next week, they would have hosted Pittsburgh. Both teams had 12-4 records, but the Chargers beat the Steelers 35-7 at home that year. If they would have won, they would have played the Rams that year in the SB, who they defeated 40-16 that year in Week 8. A SB win for the Chargers in 79 may have been the start of a new dynasty. I think that they could have repeated the next year, and maybe that would have led to Fred Dean and JJ getting new deals before the 1981 season. If Dean doesn't go to SF, they may have had a harder time winning the SB, and maybe Cincy, Dallas, or the Chargers win that year. As a result, the Niner Dynasty might never have gotten off the ground, and the West Coast Offense wouldn't have been as widespread.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd358/iwanttorentawombat/facemelt.gif

My family still talks about this game. I guess it is their version of the 2006 meltdown.

7DnBrnc53
07-27-2010, 10:20 AM
It looks like the serial number for my PC, which I can't remember.

Good for you.

Another pivotal play occurred in the 1990 NFC Title Game when Roger Craig fumbled the ball and LT recovered. If the Niners run out the clock and go to the Super Bowl, I think that Buffalo could have knocked them off. They matched up better with San Francisco that year. The Bills had problems in the Super Bowl against more physical NFC East teams. And, there was a good chance that Montana may not have played in the game after the Leonard Marshall hit.

PoopSandwich
07-27-2010, 04:14 PM
I won't go that far. As a Giants fan, it was a great and memorable play, but let's keep it in perspective. That play only got us a first down. From 3-5 to 1st and 10 on the Pats side of the field. After that, they still had a 3rd and long on us, and chances to stop us. We still had to score. It's not like Tyree caught it in the endzone, to win it. We still had to score, and they still had chances to stop us. It was a great play and memorable, perhaps even epic. But at the end of the day, it only gave us a first down.

You're insane.

Babylon
07-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Scott Norwood's missed 41 yd fg in the Superbowl probably changes a ton of perceptions of the Bills, Giants, Jim Kelley, Bill Parcells....for years to come.

Dam8610
07-30-2010, 01:36 AM
In the Peyton Manning era, the defining play of the Indianapolis Colts would have to be "The Block" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=conw2AykCXA). The play has all the elements of a defining moment. It was the AFC Championship Game (huge stakes) against the Colts' nemesis (huge rivalry), and it seemed to be the best chance the Colts had yet to win a championship, until of course they got down 21-3 (huge comeback). Then Peyton Manning figured out the no huddle offense would gas an aging Patriots defense, the Colts got a couple of breaks, and the largest comeback in Conference Championship history culminated on the aforementioned play. The Colts, down by 3 with 1:02 left in the game, had a 3rd and 2 that was essentially a must convert (situation team has struggled in previously), as the Patriots had two timeouts, and a field goal gives the Patriots the ball back with time enough to try to drive for a field goal of their own to win the game. The Colts, as they had the previous two plays, decide to run the ball. Jeff Saturday makes an amazing block of Vince Wilfork, takes him to the ground, and creates the gaping hole that allows Addai to "walk in for the touchdown", per Jim Nantz. This play gave the Colts the lead for the first time in the game, and put the Patriots in a situation they'd never faced in a playoff game to that point: they needed a TD to win, and had less than a minute of game time to get it. On the ensuing drive, Marlin Jackson intercepts Tom Brady's pass, the RCA Dome erupts in a deafening roar (I know, I was there), and the rest, as they say, is history.

Overall in Colts history, I don't see how the final play of "The Greatest Game Ever Played" could NOT be the defining play of Colts' history, considering it's a defining moment in NFL history.

NY+Giants=NYG
07-30-2010, 07:07 AM
You're insane.

Slightly, but I have to admit it does open doors.