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View Full Version : Never too early to do the Voting Mock!


RealityCheck
07-13-2010, 05:51 PM
Guys, draft exercizing time: you know the drill, 5 votes make a pick.
Let's just use the ESPN power ranking's order so there are no complaints (oh **** me.)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings?year=2010&week=0

1. St. Louis Rams - Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina
2. Detroit Lions - Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
4. Kansas City Chiefs - Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
5. Buffalo Bills - Jake Locker, QB, Washington
6. Cleveland Browns - Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
7. Seattle Seahawks - Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas
8. Jacksonville Jaguars
9. New England Patriots (f/OAK)
10. Washington Redskins
11. Miami Dolphins
12. Chicago Bears
13. Denver Broncos
14. Pittsburgh Steelers
15. Carolina Panthers
16. New York Giants
17. Tennessee Titans
18. San Francisco 49ers
19. Houston Texans
20. Philadelphia Eagles
21. Arizona Cardinals
22. Cincinnati Bengals
23. Atlanta Falcons
24. New England Patriots
25. New York Jets
26. Baltimore Ravens
27. Green Bay Packers
28. Dallas Cowboys
29. San Diego Chargers
30. Minnesota Vikings
31. Indianapolis Colts
32. New Orleans Saints

RealityCheck
07-13-2010, 05:51 PM
And I'm gonna start voting Quinn to the Rams because they need d-line help and not another WR.

Razor
07-13-2010, 06:03 PM
Quinn to the Rams makes sense. Easily the best defensive player in the nation right now.

prock
07-13-2010, 06:23 PM
I can agree with Quinn to the Rams

marshallb
07-13-2010, 06:27 PM
Sure why not. Quinn(4)

redbills
07-13-2010, 06:41 PM
Quinn (5) .

RealityCheck
07-13-2010, 06:45 PM
MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

I'm gonna say Patrick Peterson to Detroit. Carimi isn't worth it, they have Stafford and I don't think they need a WR.

TACKLE
07-13-2010, 07:01 PM
I thought about participating in this. But as soon as I saw Quinn go #1 to the Rams I realized it wasn't worth it.

wonderbredd24
07-13-2010, 08:05 PM
And I'm gonna start voting Quinn to the Rams because they need d-line help and not another WR.

I don't see how the Rams can possibly put #1 money into Quinn when they already have the contract they are paying Chris Long

AkiliSmith
07-13-2010, 08:12 PM
#2 seems awfully high for a corner, otherwise I would say Peterson. I think Romeus is better than Quinn, so I vote for him.

dannyz
07-13-2010, 08:38 PM
The Lions need Peterson so I vote for him.

AntoinCD
07-14-2010, 04:12 AM
Ideally they would trade down and take Romeus or Peterson but staying put i'll give them Peterson(3)

jsa230
07-14-2010, 04:18 AM
Ill go with P Peterson4

zachsaints52
07-14-2010, 07:00 AM
Peterson 5 but dang Rams DE again? Wow.

Razor
07-14-2010, 07:25 AM
#2 is imo way to high for a CB. Adrian Clayborn or Greg Romeus would've been better picks imo, and more likely due to the positional value.

AntoinCD
07-14-2010, 07:25 AM
Yeah but it could be one helluva combination for them.

Tampa Bay-Greg Romeus(1), DE

zachsaints52
07-14-2010, 07:37 AM
Romeus 2..

Razor
07-14-2010, 07:39 AM
I'd say AJ Green for Tampa Bay. I agree that the defense has a lot of holes, but the just invested heavily in the DL this past draft, and the addition of Green would help Freeman a lot more than Benn and Williams combined.

wonderbredd24
07-14-2010, 07:40 AM
Romeus? Seriously? Adrian Clayborn is sitting right there.

AntoinCD
07-14-2010, 07:50 AM
I'd say AJ Green for Tampa Bay. I agree that the defense has a lot of holes, but the just invested heavily in the DL this past draft, and the addition of Green would help Freeman a lot more than Benn and Williams combined.

I agree that Green is a major improvement and is also probably BPA however I really think they need to improve on their defense. They havent had a good pass rusher since Simeon Rice and Romeus would really go well with McCoy and Price. There is also a better chance of getting somoene like Devier Posey or Deandre Brown at the top of the second than an impact pass rusher.


As for Clayborn I dont think he will warrant a top 3 selection. I just don't see him as a double digit a year sack guy and may be better suited to LDE or 5 technique

AkiliSmith
07-14-2010, 08:11 AM
Romeus (3)

Razor
07-14-2010, 08:15 AM
I agree that Green is a major improvement and is also probably BPA however I really think they need to improve on their defense. They havent had a good pass rusher since Simeon Rice and Romeus would really go well with McCoy and Price. There is also a better chance of getting somoene like Devier Posey or Deandre Brown at the top of the second than an impact pass rusher.

I'm not saying Romeus would be a bad pick for the Bucs. It would allow them to out White at LDE where he would be better suited. But #3 is prety high for Romeus, and AJ Green >>>>> DeVier Posey imo. In terms of impact on the team, short term and long term, Green would be the better pick imo. Sometimes you have to disregard needs in order to improve long term, and I think that would be the case if the Bucs end up picking third.

EDIT: Also, both McCoy and Price were penetrating DTs in college, so just by having both of them you immediately improve the pass rush and take the attention away from White. So the pass rush shouldn't be as bad as it was in 2009.

AntoinCD
07-14-2010, 08:26 AM
I'm not saying Romeus would be a bad pick for the Bucs. It would allow them to out White at LDE where he would be better suited. But #3 is prety high for Romeus, and AJ Green >>>>> DeVier Posey imo. In terms of impact on the team, short term and long term, Green would be the better pick imo. Sometimes you have to disregard needs in order to improve long term, and I think that would be the case if the Bucs end up picking third.

EDIT: Also, both McCoy and Price were penetrating DTs in college, so just by having both of them you immediately improve the pass rush and take the attention away from White. So the pass rush shouldn't be as bad as it was in 2009.

Yeah I agree that, especially if you are picking this high again, value very often will trump need. But with the WR depth this year they could trade back into the first and get Baldwin, Floyd etc. The bucs are a tough team to choose for though. They don't need QB, their need for a WR can depend on how they view Benn and Williams and their other needs don't have great value at this point

If Quinn was available I think he'd be a no brainer.
If Peterson was available I think he'd be a no brainer.
No OT is worth this spot.
No safety is worth this spot.
No RB is worth this spot.
If no DB has been taken in the top 3 before, I would be extremely surprised if two were taken this year so that rules out Prince, Williams etc.

If they are happy with their WRs this year that would leave me with DE and Romeus at the minute is the only DE for a 43 still available I would be happy taking in the top 10

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 08:39 AM
I'm gonna say Heyward to Tampa Bay.

Romeus - 3
Heyward - 1
Clayborn - 1
Green - 1

3Man20
07-14-2010, 09:48 AM
I'll say Green- I just don't know if Benn and Williams can be consistent enough to really help out Freeman and by all accounts, Green could be special.

Green (2)

DiG
07-14-2010, 10:34 AM
i like heyward here to tampa.

wicket
07-14-2010, 10:35 AM
I don't see how the Rams can possibly put #1 money into Quinn when they already have the contract they are paying Chris Long

yeah but the same holds for OT, QB, RB and all the premium positions basically, if it goes on like this the rams will have drafted on top of the first so often that they can not stay below the cap just cuz of that

thenewfeature06
07-14-2010, 10:43 AM
So hard to pass up on AJ Green though I do like Mike Williams AND Benn..Romeus (4?)

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 11:11 AM
This has to be the weirdest mock we've ever done...

but I'm loving it!

LizardState
07-14-2010, 11:21 AM
Instead of another target for Freeman with Green, I think the once-stellar Tampa Bay defense is a far cry from their dominant Tampa 2 days & needs serious help to get off the floor of 4th plc. in the NFC South.

Tampa went DL last draft with McCoy, both he & Brian Price are projected to start with 4th-yr DE Crowder to give them a decent but unproven very young d-line, give them a chance to improve & maybe stop The Burner Turner & DeAngelo Williams in their conference for a change so no Romeus or Heyward. Their LBs all suck IMO but can be addressed in later rds.

If we're looking at team needs this is their primary one: Looking at their roster, how many more yrs. will they get from former perennial Pro Bowler Ronde Barber, who's going into NFL season #14? Not many more I think. They were hoping he would fall to them but Peterson is gone, big drop off from him to the rest of the CBs as 2010 is nowhere near what 2009 was for NFL-worthy corners. they should draft the 2nd-ranked one, Ras-I Dowling from UVA. He's just a hair > Prince Amukamara & an inch taller at 6-2. It might be way too high to take any CB not named Peterson, but again, in this very weird mock it's all about team needs.....

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 11:23 AM
So that's a vote for Dowling?

thenewfeature06
07-14-2010, 11:26 AM
Aqib is that dude there secondary wasn't the weak link haha but honestly you get Ras-I or even Prince there I can't fault you.

LizardState
07-14-2010, 11:50 AM
So that's a vote for Dowling?



Yessir. If others & assorted Nebraska fans want Amukamara I fully understand

prock
07-14-2010, 12:33 PM
My vote is Green, I don't see value at d end or cornerback here...

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 12:34 PM
Romeus - 4
Green - 3
Heyward - 2
Clayborn - 1
Dowling - 1

jsa230
07-14-2010, 01:17 PM
I gotta say green . . . if green has the season i expect him to have then hes a top 5 lock.

Mr. Offseason
07-14-2010, 01:32 PM
MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

I'm gonna say Patrick Peterson to Detroit. Carimi isn't worth it, they have Stafford and I don't think they need a WR.

Do you think Carimi is worth a top 10 pick?

I have watched him a fair amount and I don't have him graded that high at all.

TACKLE
07-14-2010, 01:38 PM
Do you think Carimi is worth a top 10 pick?

I have watched him a fair amount and I don't have him graded that high at all.

He's not a first round pick let alone a top ten pick.

nepg
07-14-2010, 01:48 PM
Green. Williams & Benn are wild cards. Would be sick if they all work out.

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 01:49 PM
The Chiefs...

I still think Pioli and Haley trust Mallett, so no Locker here.
Their biggest need is LB, but zero positional value whatsoever.

Yeah, my vote is Michael Floyd. Make that offense a good one.

thenewfeature06
07-14-2010, 01:52 PM
Good fit, I ******* love Floyd has worked with Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarlie and is an instant deep threat him and Bowe would be solid.

(2)

lowlife
07-14-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm not saying Romeus would be a bad pick for the Bucs. It would allow them to out White at LDE where he would be better suited. But #3 is prety high for Romeus, and AJ Green >>>>> DeVier Posey imo. In terms of impact on the team, short term and long term, Green would be the better pick imo. Sometimes you have to disregard needs in order to improve long term, and I think that would be the case if the Bucs end up picking third.

EDIT: Also, both McCoy and Price were penetrating DTs in college, so just by having both of them you immediately improve the pass rush and take the attention away from White. So the pass rush shouldn't be as bad as it was in 2009.

White at LE? No ******* way.

He doesn't play the run well, his best role is as a reserve rush end.
We already have two decent LE options in Kyle Moore and Tim Crowder.
That's why I'm hesitant to vote for Clayborn, Heyward, or Bailey at this spot, don't know if they'll ever be that upfield RE we need even though they'd really help out the putrid run D.

This is a tough one, don't see us picking this high, but with Peterson and Quinn gone, it's a rough spot. Too high for Romeus, any of the Guards, any of the Safeties, any of the backs, or any of the OTs (if Penn leaves).

Williams has owned OTAs, but that ain't ****. I don't see either he nor Benn as regular contributors til year 2 or 3. After investing those picks, Green is tempting but I don't know.

Can I vote to trade down?

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 01:57 PM
No because you guys aren't on the clock anymore.

jsa230
07-14-2010, 02:02 PM
Locker to the chiefs

lowlife
07-14-2010, 02:15 PM
Yeah, I took a break in the middle of writing that for lunch, I rule.

I can see the Floyd pick, but Green is too good to pass up.
If they give up on Dorsey (unlikely) Clayborn would go with that "Iowa connection" they have.

prock
07-14-2010, 02:18 PM
Yeah, that Iowa connection... That was real prevalent this year.

I think the Chiefs go with Floyd. Cassel is getting paid way too much to be a back up.

TACKLE
07-14-2010, 02:23 PM
If they're picking in the top 5 then Cassell failed. Money isn't really an issue because his contract was very front loaded. In this situation they have to go with Locker or Mallett.

Mr. Offseason
07-14-2010, 02:31 PM
He's not a first round pick let alone a top ten pick.

I think he could end up in the later portion of round 1, but I agree I didn't see much more than a 2nd-3rd round talent when I watched him. He's tough though which I like. I think he could be a solid OT in the NFL (probably RT) that has a long career but I don't think he will be stellar at all.

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 02:31 PM
So prock goes Floyd and TACKLE goes Locker? Damn you guys, make your votes clear.

TACKLE
07-14-2010, 02:34 PM
So prock goes Floyd and TACKLE goes Locker? Damn you guys, make your votes clear.

I didn't vote. I was just commenting.

tenorx
07-14-2010, 02:39 PM
I'll also say Floyd.

Brent
07-14-2010, 03:23 PM
If they're picking in the top 5 then Cassell failed.
I'll vote Locker for that reason.

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 03:27 PM
That makes 4 for Floyd and 2 for Locker.

LizardState
07-14-2010, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TACKLE
If they're picking in the top 5 then Cassell failed.
I'll vote Locker for that reason.

I say Locker for the same reason, Locker (3)

AntoinCD
07-14-2010, 04:28 PM
Yeah if the Chiefs are picking top 5 again I gotta believe they are going to go QB. I think Mallet will end up more highly rated after the season but as of now I have to go Jake Locker(4)

bce
07-14-2010, 05:53 PM
Guys, draft exercizing time: you know the drill, 5 votes make a pick.
Let's just use the ESPN power ranking's order so there are no complaints (oh **** me.)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings?year=2010&week=0

1. St. Louis Rams - Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina
2. Detroit Lions - Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
4. Kansas City Chiefs
5. Buffalo Bills
6. Cleveland Browns
7. Seattle Seahawks
8. Jacksonville Jaguars
9. New England Patriots (f/OAK)
10. Washington Redskins
11. Miami Dolphins
12. Chicago Bears
13. Denver Broncos
14. Pittsburgh Steelers
15. Carolina Panthers
16. New York Giants
17. Tennessee Titans
18. San Francisco 49ers
19. Houston Texans
20. Philadelphia Eagles
21. Arizona Cardinals
22. Cincinnati Bengals
23. Atlanta Falcons
24. New England Patriots
25. New York Jets
26. Baltimore Ravens
27. Green Bay Packers
28. Dallas Cowboys
29. San Diego Chargers
30. Minnesota Vikings
31. Indianapolis Colts
32. New Orleans Saints


Yep, they'll all be picking in the top 10 next year too if they do what you say.

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 05:54 PM
Yep, they'll all be picking in the top 10 next year too if they do what you say.
Uh, what do you mean by that?

bce
07-14-2010, 05:56 PM
It means if they make the picks you say they should make, they'll suck and probably be picking in the top 10 again next year, just like they do every year when they make media inspired draft choices.

Razor
07-14-2010, 06:10 PM
I like Mallet for the Chiefs. If they pick this high again then Cassell isn't the answer. I'm still not sold on Locker, so he'll definetly be a guy I'll be watching this fall. But as of right now I can't justify taking him in the top 15, so Mallet it is. Locker just makes too many bad decisions.

LizardState
07-14-2010, 06:22 PM
Yep, they'll all be picking in the top 10 next year too if they do what you say.

uhhh, you do realize he's using the 2009 draft order don't you?

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 06:24 PM
uhhh, you do realize he's using the 2009 draft order don't you?
Do you realize I'm not using the 2009 draft order, don't you?

bce
07-14-2010, 06:26 PM
Funny how its almost the same draft order as 2010 and 2008 and 2007, when the same teams made the same media inspired draft picks and there they are again.

Surprise surprise when you allow the media to make your draft picks for you. When you do what reality check says which is what the media says, the reality check is you pick in the top 10 every year. Makes for a lot of exposure every april, then for a lot of exposure every fall, and when i mean exposure i mean bad exposure.

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 06:27 PM
Did you just make a pun with my screen name?

bce
07-14-2010, 06:29 PM
I guess i did. Youre certainly in need of a "reality check", just like the teams who will make the drafting mistakes that the media and then in turn you tell them they should make. The "reality" is your drafting strategy leads to them picking in the top 10 every year.

RealityCheck
07-14-2010, 06:31 PM
Yup. You're the one that has Isaiah Pead at #11 on his board and I'm the one who needs a reality check.

bce
07-14-2010, 06:37 PM
better than AJ green at # 2. at least you wont be massively overpaying for isaih pead if he turns out and if he busts its not a franchise killer. rbs are the least likely to bust out. Wrs on the other hand have a high bust percentage, and aj greens not worth 12 million per year when he hasnt stepped foot on an nfl field and has never had a 1000 yard recieving campaign in college.

Draft order is immaterial. my board is not a draft order board. Its a value board.

AkiliSmith
07-14-2010, 06:40 PM
I think Cassell gets another chance with his large contract. The man needs some more weapons.

Floyd (5)

bce
07-14-2010, 06:42 PM
I think Cassell gets another chance with his large contract. The man needs some more weapons.

Floyd (5)


Dont you think an edge pass rusher is the more dire more pressing need, this is the team with the lowest number of sacks the past two years and it shows with the winning percentage.

LizardState
07-14-2010, 06:43 PM
RC: don't let him hijack the thread. Pls proceed to the count & amount on your current pick.

AkiliSmith
07-14-2010, 06:49 PM
Dont you think an edge pass rusher is the more dire more pressing need, this is the team with the lowest number of sacks the past two years and it shows with the winning percentage.
Who is this edge rusher worth the 4th pick? Romeus isn't a 3-4 guy.

bce
07-14-2010, 06:49 PM
i come on here like once every 2 days. i dont hijack threads. ive posted one statement and 2 responses to the poster.

Yes please proceed to the count and amount your current awful media inspired picking in the top 10 again every year pick.

bce
07-14-2010, 06:50 PM
Who is this edge rusher worth the 4th pick? Romeus isn't a 3-4 guy.


Von miller

AkiliSmith
07-14-2010, 06:53 PM
Von miller
Highly doubtful but you seem to know more than anyone on this website and in the media

bce
07-14-2010, 07:00 PM
Thats because i do. I watch more tape and i dont concern myself with "draft order" which is what everyone in the media and thus the entire herd bases their evaluations on. May be highly doubtful but its the position of highest need and highest value and the player who has performed best between the white lines and hes a pure stand up 3-4 pass rushing olb. Its need + value +performance+ ability.He has the gift and unless you need a qb you dont pass on a guy with the gift especially when you desperately need a guy with the gift. Its perfect. Unless youre ready to ditch matt cassel at this point and take a qb.

AntoinCD
07-15-2010, 03:24 AM
So that's Floyd to the Chiefs then??

Ok the Bills take Jake Locker(1). Fits what Chan Gailey's trying to do offensively

Razor
07-15-2010, 04:04 AM
So that's Floyd to the Chiefs then??

Ok the Bills take Jake Locker(1). Fits what Chan Gailey's trying to do offensively

I second that. I don't like it, but if Locker is there the Bills will take him.

dannyz
07-15-2010, 04:07 AM
Andrew Luck. Don't know how he will do with the Weather in New York.

gouldo
07-15-2010, 05:01 AM
Locker to the Bills (3).

RealityCheck
07-15-2010, 08:18 AM
Locker to Bills.

Locker - 4
Luck - 1

thenewfeature06
07-15-2010, 08:23 AM
Locker (5)

RealityCheck
07-15-2010, 08:26 AM
Browns - Cam "Jam" Heyward (1)

thenewfeature06
07-15-2010, 08:28 AM
I could go any where BUT QB with this but to keep it moving and its not a bad pick

Heyward (2)

AntoinCD
07-15-2010, 09:03 AM
I think at this point they will go with their top rated defensive player.

Dareus(1)

Originally had Heyward but I think they'll go with the guy with the higher ceiling

LizardState
07-15-2010, 11:06 AM
Dareus to the Browns

lowlife
07-15-2010, 11:08 AM
If the Browns really pass on Mallet, they deserve another Top 5 pick or three.

Do you really think Lil Colt would stop Holmgren from picking a franchise QB?

RealityCheck
07-15-2010, 11:10 AM
If the Browns really pass on Mallet, they deserve another Top 5 pick or three.

Do you really think Lil Colt would stop Holmgren from picking a franchise QB?
It would. It's not over until it's over. And their defense pisses.

And I really don't see the whole Dareus over Heyward thing. He hasn't impressed me whatsoever yet.

lowlife
07-15-2010, 11:14 AM
I guess we disagree then. Mallet (1).
Though there are more elite 5T prospects available then I've seen in any draft.

wonderbredd24
07-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Would Colt McCoy prevent us from taking a QB? Definitely not. However, I'm just not sure if Mallett is the type of QB Holmgren would want. Locker? No question. Not sure about Mallett yet.

Give us Cameron Heyward

Razor
07-15-2010, 02:04 PM
Heyward for the Browns.

tenorx
07-15-2010, 02:12 PM
Dareus (3)

RealityCheck
07-15-2010, 03:20 PM
Keep voting, guys!

AkiliSmith
07-15-2010, 07:05 PM
Heyward (5)

Seahawks - Mallet

RealityCheck
07-15-2010, 07:09 PM
Alright then. I don't think the Seahawks will give up on Whitehurst that easy.
My vote is, ladies and gentlemen, Marcell Dareus (1). Specially if they're really moving to a 3-4.

thenewfeature06
07-15-2010, 07:11 PM
Ryan Mallett (2)

dannyz
07-15-2010, 07:27 PM
Ryan Mallett (3).

Big_Pete
07-16-2010, 01:51 AM
I am voting for Ryan Mallett to the Seahawks.

Razor
07-16-2010, 04:22 AM
Why would the Seahawks move to the 3-4 when they have Hill, Curry and Tatupu at LB? Mallet gets my vote. (5)

tenorx
07-16-2010, 05:13 AM
Why would the Seahawks move to the 3-4 when they have Hill, Curry and Tatupu at LB? Mallet gets my vote. (5)

Because they also have David Hawthorne :D
Oh and Julio Jones to the Jaguars.

Razor
07-16-2010, 07:27 AM
So who is Jacksonville going to get? If Luck declares he should be the one, but I don't think he will so I'm not going to vote for Luck. That means I'm down to Aaron Williams and Greg Romeus. This might be to high for Williams, so I'm going to say Romeus who should be a nice addition to Tyson Alualu, Knighton and Harvey.

AkiliSmith
07-16-2010, 07:58 AM
Romeus (2)

thenewfeature06
07-16-2010, 09:07 AM
Aaron Williams (1) Had to do a tad of research... ESPN has the Jags depth char with both the 3-4 and the 4-3. Are the Jags moving to a 3-4 because it was filled out a little bit but there was empty slots all over the place.

Williams gives that secondary a young corner who has been making plays his whole career. Could be a great pro for a long time.

3Man20
07-16-2010, 09:10 AM
Julio Jones (2)- they still don't have any receivers in Jax

LizardState
07-16-2010, 10:40 AM
We're still on Seattle. They would have gone QB if the Hasselbeck/Whitehurst tandem screwed the pooch, & they might, might have gone with the hometown guy in Locker but he's taken.

They're 3rd-ranked in their division only b/c the Rams are in it & dead last. Their defense is awful, & was awful in 09 due to absent pass rush. Their best pass-rusher was Kerney who only had 5 sacks, & their most improved D-lineman was Lawrence Jackson, a Carroll protege from USC, only had 4.5.

They went heavily with offense in the last draft, Carroll has to improve the defense as their only 09 draftee who starts PFW projections is FS Earl Thomas. They need someone who can pressure the QB, I think they take Dareus. He's versatile enough to move inside at DT too to leave Kerney & Jackson at the DEs & Carroll could maximize his usefulness by moving him around in their new flex 3-4.

tenorx
07-16-2010, 10:41 AM
We're still on Seattle. They would have gone QB if the Hasselbeck/Whitehurst tandem screwed the pooch, & they might, might have gone with the hometown guy in Locker but he's taken.

They're 3rd-ranked in their division only b/c the Rams are in it & dead last. Their defense is awful, & was awful in 09 due to absent pass rush. Their best pass-rusher was Kerney who only had 5 sacks, & their most improved D-lineman was Lawrence Jackson, a Carroll protege from USC, only had 4.5.

They went heavily with offense in the last draft, Carroll has to improve the defense as their only 09 draftee who starts PFW projections is FS Earl Thomas. They need someone who can pressure the QB, I think they take Dareus. He's versatile enough to move inside at DT too to leave Kerney & Jackson at the DEs & Carroll could maximize his usefulness by moving him around in their new flex 3-4.
Mallett got 5 votes, so its Jacksonville I think :P

LizardState
07-16-2010, 11:18 AM
The Jags need everything except a RB, just throw a dart at a draft board or take the BAA.

RealityCheck
07-16-2010, 12:03 PM
I'm gonna go with Jonathan Baldwin here. The Jags seem to prefer big WRs like him.

Romeus - 2
Julio - 2
A. Williams - 1
Baldwin - 1
Dareus - 1

jsa230
07-16-2010, 02:24 PM
i agree w/ reality check but i cant see baldwin going that high as of right now, but, who knows how ill feel after the season.

Julio to the jags

nepg
07-17-2010, 08:01 AM
I'll go with Andrew Luck for the Jags. They have one of the most ideal situations to bring a rookie QB into. They don't have the most amazing WRs, but by the time 2011 rolls around, Dillard, Thomas, and Sims-Walker might not be such a terrible trio. I see that group as being somewhat similar to what Matty Ice had/has in Atlanta, but with a much better OL.

thenewfeature06
07-17-2010, 08:37 AM
I really doubt he declares, just a gut feeling. If he did declare however that would land the Jags a top QB in that class and maybe he brings the Jags back...out of blacked out games or moving to LA.

RealityCheck
07-17-2010, 09:14 AM
I already consider the Jags a LA team by the way. They're just a season away from moving.

Julio - 3
Romeus - 2
A. Williams - 1
Baldwin - 1
Luck - 1
Dareus - 1

wonderbredd24
07-17-2010, 09:40 AM
Julio Jones would be hilariously typical of the Jags... afterall, they took Reggie Williams, so it's a perfect fit.

OSUGiants17
07-17-2010, 12:41 PM
Andrew Luck to the LA Jags

bce
07-17-2010, 03:05 PM
Guys, draft exercizing time: you know the drill, 5 votes make a pick.
Let's just use the ESPN power ranking's order so there are no complaints (oh **** me.)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings?year=2010&week=0

1. St. Louis Rams - Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina
2. Detroit Lions - Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
4. Kansas City Chiefs - Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
5. Buffalo Bills - Jake Locker, QB, Washington
6. Cleveland Browns - Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
7. Seattle Seahawks - Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas
8. Jacksonville Jaguars
9. New England Patriots (f/OAK)
10. Washington Redskins
11. Miami Dolphins
12. Chicago Bears
13. Denver Broncos
14. Pittsburgh Steelers
15. Carolina Panthers
16. New York Giants
17. Tennessee Titans
18. San Francisco 49ers
19. Houston Texans
20. Philadelphia Eagles
21. Arizona Cardinals
22. Cincinnati Bengals
23. Atlanta Falcons
24. New England Patriots
25. New York Jets
26. Baltimore Ravens
27. Green Bay Packers
28. Dallas Cowboys
29. San Diego Chargers
30. Minnesota Vikings
31. Indianapolis Colts
32. New Orleans Saints

St.louis- von miller
Detroit- romeus
tampa-ingram
kc- Malett
buf- RG 3
cleve- baldwin
seattle- john clay
jax- jarrod johnson
NE jeremy beal
wash-anthony allen
miami- jacquizz rodgers
chicago- julio jones
denver- cameron heyward
steelers- patrick peterson
carolina-pierre allen
giants- robert sands
titans- jabal sheard
sf- isaih pead
houston- ryan williams
philly- terrel pryor
ariz- akeem ayers
cincy- michael floyd
atl- allen bailey
ne- travis benjamin
jets-marcel dareus
ravens-armon binns
gb- adrian clayborn
dal- jared crick
sd- jerrel powe
min-kyle rudolph
colts- stepehn paea
no- w saunders

Razor
07-17-2010, 04:12 PM
Do we still need to follow the forum rules when talking about the epic suckage of bce?

bce
07-17-2010, 04:15 PM
Anyone can say that. Step up. You know i accept all challenges

Hurricanes25
07-17-2010, 06:55 PM
bce, do you really think that Von Miller is going #1? That's hilarious.

bce
07-17-2010, 07:04 PM
I dont think that he will go #1. But in the draft order as it was laid out the team picking #1 needs the best pass rusher in the draft. They already picked a qb this past year, they picked a lt the year before that. So theres really only one option at that spot. The player who has the gift. The player who has the gift is von miller. So if this is the draft order and st.louis is picking first, have to take the guy with the gift. Based on their recent draft strategy to pass it will be just another in a long line of mistakes.

AkiliSmith
07-17-2010, 07:08 PM
Pass rushing linebackers don't go #1. Especially to a 4-3 defense.

RealityCheck
07-17-2010, 07:16 PM
I don't think bce understood the idea of the whole thread.

bce
07-17-2010, 07:17 PM
Pass rushing linebackers don't go #1. Especially to a 4-3 defense.


Its one of the most common mistakes nfl teams make. Players with the gift arent scheme specific. If you can get to the qb you can get to the qb 4-3 3-4, wing t 46 doesnt make any difference. You dont think demarcus ware or elvis dumervill worthy of the #1 overall pick outside of a top qb prospect? damn straight theyre worthy.

You just repeated one of the mnost common and biggest mistakes nfl front offices make in drafting. It doesnt matter what you look like or how you get it done. You scheme your defense around great pass rushers, you dont let scheme make the determination. You have a player who can get to the qb, you build your defense around getting them to the qb. personnel determines how you should be playing defense, not the other way around.

hockey619
07-17-2010, 07:20 PM
Its one of the most common mistakes nfl teams make. Players with the gift arent scheme specific. If you can get to the qb you can get to the qb 4-3 3-4, wing t 46 doesnt make any difference. You dont think demarcus ware or elvis dumervill worthy of the #1 overall pick outside of a top qb prospect? damn straight theyre worthy.

You just repeated one of the mnost common and biggest mistakes nfl front offices make in drafting. It doesnt matter what you look like or how you get it done. You scheme your defense around great pass rushers, you dont let scheme make the determination. You have a player who can get to the qb, you build your defense around getting them to the qb. personnel determines how you should be playing defense, not the other way around.



Most coaches have too much of an ego. they want it to be their system that the guys adjust to and that the team drafts to, not to pick the players they deem to be most likely to succeed and build a system to bring out their strengths which is really the way to get it done. But then if the coach fails he feels its because he didnt get to run his system

thenewfeature06
07-17-2010, 07:25 PM
If your gonna post here prolly should vote

RealityCheck
07-17-2010, 07:28 PM
Yes, if you want to discuss about Von Miller, create a thread about Von Miller.

bce
07-17-2010, 07:33 PM
Most coaches have too much of an ego. they want it to be their system that the guys adjust to and that the team drafts to, not to pick the players they deem to be most likely to succeed and build a system to bring out their strengths which is really the way to get it done. But then if the coach fails he feels its because he didnt get to run his system


Thats why 1/3 of the league turns over every year. Thats why 3/4s of front offices have turned over this decade.

Its about the willies and the joes not the x's and the o's. You base the x's and o's on the willies and the joes, you dont base the willies and the joes on the x's and the o's.

Great players at any position are not scheme specific. If they are, probably shouldnt be using high picks on them.

lowlife
07-17-2010, 08:15 PM
If Luck comes out, he obviously had a crazy season and would definitely warrant the pick. Don't think it happens.

Amukamara (1)

Unbiased
07-28-2010, 05:22 PM
Julio Jones would be hilariously typical of the Jags... afterall, they took Reggie Williams, so it's a perfect fit.

So because Shack Harris took Reggie Williams, Gene Smith will take Julio Jones?

That's some smart thinking right there. When Mike Holmgren gets the Browns 4 rookie starters from week 1, give me a call.

prock
07-28-2010, 05:37 PM
St.louis- von miller
Detroit- romeus
tampa-ingram
kc- Malett
buf- RG 3
cleve- baldwin
seattle- john clay
jax- jarrod johnson
NE jeremy beal
wash-anthony allen
miami- jacquizz rodgers
chicago- julio jones
denver- cameron heyward
steelers- patrick peterson
carolina-pierre allen
giants- robert sands
titans- jabal sheard
sf- isaih pead
houston- ryan williams
philly- terrel pryor
ariz- akeem ayers
cincy- michael floyd
atl- allen bailey
ne- travis benjamin
jets-marcel dareus
ravens-armon binns
gb- adrian clayborn
dal- jared crick
sd- jerrel powe
min-kyle rudolph
colts- stepehn paea
no- w saunders

Why would the Vikings spend a first round pick on a tight end? That makes no sense. And why do say cornerbacks can't go in the top 10, but running backs and wide receivers can?

bce
07-28-2010, 07:43 PM
Why would the Vikings spend a first round pick on a tight end? That makes no sense. And why do say cornerbacks can't go in the top 10, but running backs and wide receivers can?

Why doesnt it make any sense for the vikings to draft a te in that position, especially as good a prospect as rudolph looks to be.

Generally, i would agree not to take wrs and rbs in the top 10. Two reasons why this year is different. 1. Its an elite class for both positions. There are nfl superstars to be had at both rb and wr. 2. Theres a limited number of prospects who have shown at the higher value positions. Havent seen a lt, only 2 pass rushers and 3 qbs worth top 10 as i see it, and that may drop as rg 3 may not even be a guy who comes out. So as the rule always states, if you need a qb, you draft one. You dont need a qb, you draft a pass rusher. Then LT. After that, it becomes a question of elite prospects at other positions. There are elite prospects at rb and wr this year, so thats where im going at the moment. Basically dearth at the positions of higher value at the top level

prock
07-28-2010, 07:51 PM
Why doesnt it make any sense for the vikings to draft a te in that position, especially as good a prospect as rudolph looks to be.

Generally, i would agree not to take wrs and rbs in the top 10. Two reasons why this year is different. 1. Its an elite class for both positions. There are nfl superstars to be had at both rb and wr. 2. Theres a limited number of prospects who have shown at the higher value positions. Havent seen a lt, only 2 pass rushers and 3 qbs worth top 10 as i see it, and that may drop as rg 3 may not even be a guy who comes out. So as the rule always states, if you need a qb, you draft one. You dont need a qb, you draft a pass rusher. Then LT. After that, it becomes a question of elite prospects at other positions. There are elite prospects at rb and wr this year, so thats where im going at the moment. Basically dearth at the positions of higher value at the top level

So you can reach for an elite running back or an elite receiver, but the best cornerback prospect in the last decade can't be taken in the top ten?

And the Vikings really don't have a need at tight end at all, as Shiancoe has proven to be a very high quality starter, and Dugan is fine as a back up. Tight end is one of the last positions the Vikings would spend a first round pick on.

bce
07-28-2010, 08:10 PM
You mean reach for mark ingram or jonathan baldwin, two players who have been far superior between the white lines than patrick peterson has been. he may be an athletic miracle, and thats good, but he has to show way more, like mark ingram and baldwin have.Best prospect of the last decade compared to whom? I would agree hes the best prospect in this class, and thats about as far as i would go.

Considering the vikings are a pretty solid team all around, you dont thinka potential upgrade over visanthe shiancoe and some guy named duggan at the 30th pick is a worthwhile endeavor? You could be talking about an elite te here. A potential heath miller type. I would agree if they were filled with holes, but the positions of higher value are addressed and the 30th pick you could get an elite te possibly. I think thats a good bargain.

prock
07-29-2010, 12:56 AM
You mean reach for mark ingram or jonathan baldwin, two players who have been far superior between the white lines than patrick peterson has been. he may be an athletic miracle, and thats good, but he has to show way more, like mark ingram and baldwin have.Best prospect of the last decade compared to whom? I would agree hes the best prospect in this class, and thats about as far as i would go.

Considering the vikings are a pretty solid team all around, you dont thinka potential upgrade over visanthe shiancoe and some guy named duggan at the 30th pick is a worthwhile endeavor? You could be talking about an elite te here. A potential heath miller type. I would agree if they were filled with holes, but the positions of higher value are addressed and the 30th pick you could get an elite te possibly. I think thats a good bargain.

I will address the bold comment first. The best prospect of the last decade compared to all the cornerback prospects of the past decade, I don't understand why that wasn't 100% clear, your mental retardation must be getting in the way.

What more does Peterson need to show? Shutting down every receiver he faces? He definitely has shown more than Baldwin has "between the white lines", and Ingram is a great college back who should be a solid back in the NFL, but plays a position of even less value than Peterson does.

Visanthe Shiancoe is a very good starter, and well above average. So no, Rudolph wouldn't be an upgrade, at least for a year or two. So, how about spending the 30th pick in the draft on a quarterback, an interior lineman, a nose tackle, an outside linebacker, a safety, or even a left tackle to groom for a few years rather than a player who provides no significant upgrade? Ben Leber is going to be a free agent, Anthony Herrera is really bad, Phat Williams is old as ****, McKinnie is a bum, Favre is 40+ years old, Madieu Williams and Tyrell Johnson are one of the worst pair of safeties in the league. So that is why you wouldn't waste a pick on a tight end who provides no significant upgrade, if an upgrade at all.

AntoinCD
07-29-2010, 04:06 AM
Its one of the most common mistakes nfl teams make. Players with the gift arent scheme specific. If you can get to the qb you can get to the qb 4-3 3-4, wing t 46 doesnt make any difference. You dont think demarcus ware or elvis dumervill worthy of the #1 overall pick outside of a top qb prospect? damn straight theyre worthy.

You just repeated one of the mnost common and biggest mistakes nfl front offices make in drafting. It doesnt matter what you look like or how you get it done. You scheme your defense around great pass rushers, you dont let scheme make the determination. You have a player who can get to the qb, you build your defense around getting them to the qb. personnel determines how you should be playing defense, not the other way around.

What the **** is the gift? And no I wouldn't think Elvis dumervil would be worth the 1st overall pick. And if he had 'the gift' why did he only have his one really good year when they moved to the 34 defense. He averaged slightly over 8 sacks a year in the 43 then explodes with 17.5 in the 34. Surely he would be the definition of scheme specific???

nepg
07-30-2010, 08:07 AM
So what's the count for the Jags' pick?

macrylinda1
07-30-2010, 11:38 AM
I'm gonna say Heyward to Tampa Bay.

Romeus - 3
Heyward - 1
Clayborn - 1
Green - 1

I'll say Green- I just don't know if Benn and Williams can be consistent enough to really help out Freeman and by all accounts, Green could be special.
___________________
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gouldo
07-31-2010, 06:42 AM
Bumping this along again. The Jags need a QB, but I don't know of anyone that would be value at this spot, so I will go for Romeus at DE. They need to rush more, and Alualu was a massive reach this year.

prock
07-31-2010, 11:17 AM
I am voting for Green. Green is going to be a stud.

bce
07-31-2010, 11:47 AM
I will address the bold comment first. The best prospect of the last decade compared to all the cornerback prospects of the past decade, I don't understand why that wasn't 100% clear, your mental retardation must be getting in the way.

What more does Peterson need to show? Shutting down every receiver he faces? He definitely has shown more than Baldwin has "between the white lines", and Ingram is a great college back who should be a solid back in the NFL, but plays a position of even less value than Peterson does.

Visanthe Shiancoe is a very good starter, and well above average. So no, Rudolph wouldn't be an upgrade, at least for a year or two. So, how about spending the 30th pick in the draft on a quarterback, an interior lineman, a nose tackle, an outside linebacker, a safety, or even a left tackle to groom for a few years rather than a player who provides no significant upgrade? Ben Leber is going to be a free agent, Anthony Herrera is really bad, Phat Williams is old as ****, McKinnie is a bum, Favre is 40+ years old, Madieu Williams and Tyrell Johnson are one of the worst pair of safeties in the league. So that is why you wouldn't waste a pick on a tight end who provides no significant upgrade, if an upgrade at all.

I would like ome names of who patrick peterson is a better prospect than. maybe joe haden, no mistake picks please. What he needs to show to be worthy of a top 10 pick, to put on my already god awful football team to make it better, is elite ball skills. I need to see deion sanders. I need to see champ bailey. I know its high comparison, but to warrant that high a pick, thats the measuring stick.

Visanthe siancoe is 30 years old and has never been an elite te in the nfl. You have the chance to get a young upgrade there. Youre talking about a guy with 160 career catches. Pat williams could easliy play into his late 30's and is still effective. 'm not saying its the only option, but chances of getting an elite lt prospect or an elite safety prospect at the 30th pick, chances arent that great. You can score an elite te prospect at that spot if youre lucky. He's the best player left on my board at that point, a potential elite te. Im not saying there arent other oprtions, but the positions youre talking about, guard, linebacker, safety, can be addressed relatively easily later in the draft, and youre not going to have a great shot at an elite nt, qb, or lt prospect at that point.

bce
07-31-2010, 11:49 AM
What the **** is the gift? And no I wouldn't think Elvis dumervil would be worth the 1st overall pick. And if he had 'the gift' why did he only have his one really good year when they moved to the 34 defense. He averaged slightly over 8 sacks a year in the 43 then explodes with 17.5 in the 34. Surely he would be the definition of scheme specific???


He probably should have been the first overall pick or thereabouts. Hes sure playing like it and they sure paid him like it. The gift is the ability to be an elite pass rusher. You dont pass on players with the gift. They are the most important key to playing winning defense, and outside the qb, the most important player on the team.

bce
07-31-2010, 11:50 AM
Bumping this along again. The Jags need a QB, but I don't know of anyone that would be value at this spot, so I will go for Romeus at DE. They need to rush more, and Alualu was a massive reach this year.

Jarrod johnson

prock
07-31-2010, 11:55 AM
I would like ome names of who patrick peterson is a better prospect than. maybe joe haden, no mistake picks please. What he needs to show to be worthy of a top 10 pick, to put on my already god awful football team to make it better, is elite ball skills. I need to see deion sanders. I need to see champ bailey. I know its high comparison, but to warrant that high a pick, thats the measuring stick.

PP is a better prospect than anyone in the last ten years, how about that? He can get taken in the top 10 because a lack of value at positions of higher value. I don't understand why you don't get that.

Visanthe siancoe is 30 years old and has never been an elite te in the nfl. You have the chance to get a young upgrade there. Youre talking about a guy with 160 career catches. Pat williams could easliy play into his late 30's and is still effective. 'm not saying its the only option, but chances of getting an elite lt prospect or an elite safety prospect at the 30th pick, chances arent that great. You can score an elite te prospect at that spot if youre lucky. He's the best player left on my board at that point, a potential elite te. Im not saying there arent other oprtions, but the positions youre talking about, guard, linebacker, safety, can be addressed relatively easily later in the draft, and youre not going to have a great shot at an elite nt, qb, or lt prospect at that point.

Shiancoe didn't start til like 2 years ago, so he obviously doesn't have that many catches. If you watch the games, which you obviously don't, you would know that he is a very good starting tight end in this league. Taking a first round tight end would be stupid. Pat Williams ALREADY is in his very late 30's and he showed decline last year already. Picking 30th, you aren't going to get an elite prospect at any position, but you can get a very good one at a position of team need. You can get a solid NT, a great guard prospect, a linebacker, a quarterback (maybe someone like Ponder), or a developmental LT prospect. Tight end is one of the last positions the Vikings should spend a first rounder on.

bce
07-31-2010, 12:21 PM
I know you keep saying that but theres little justification other than hes faster than your average 220 lb man, but since weight is not really important for a corner, i dont think it matters that much.

You can get kyle rudolph maybe if youre lucky an elite TE prospect. Youre not going to get an elite at the position of highest value, and sure you may be able to get a mid level talent like christian ponder. Chances are not good though of getting a shot at an elite talent at the positions of highest value, so if youre picking 30th you should be looking at possibly tring to get an elite at one of the complementary positions. First round te's have a very good track record recently as well.

prock
07-31-2010, 12:39 PM
I know you keep saying that but theres little justification other than hes faster than your average 220 lb man, but since weight is not really important for a corner, i dont think it matters that much.

He is faster than most corners in general. Most corners don't run low 4.3s. He is a superior physical specimen and has great ball skills as well, so I don't know what you are arguing.

You can get kyle rudolph maybe if youre lucky an elite TE prospect. Youre not going to get an elite at the position of highest value, and sure you may be able to get a mid level talent like christian ponder. Chances are not good though of getting a shot at an elite talent at the positions of highest value, so if youre picking 30th you should be looking at possibly tring to get an elite at one of the complementary positions. First round te's have a very good track record recently as well.

What makes Kyle Rudolph elite? I know you hate Christan Ponder because he isn't Ryan Mallet, but if he was available at 30, it would be a god damn Christmas present. But why spend a first round pick on someone who will see the field in big sets and that is it?

bce
07-31-2010, 01:01 PM
He is faster than most corners in general. Most corners don't run low 4.3s. He is a superior physical specimen and has great ball skills as well, so I don't know what you are arguing.



What makes Kyle Rudolph elite? I know you hate Christan Ponder because he isn't Ryan Mallet, but if he was available at 30, it would be a god damn Christmas present. But why spend a first round pick on someone who will see the field in big sets and that is it?

Actually a lot of corners have 4.37 speed. Elite speed for a corner is in the 4.2's. He doesnt have elite speed with regards to nfl corners. He has above average speed, but not top level speed. Again I dont see these elite ball skills. I dont see deion sanders running around out there playing corner for lsu. Do you see deion sanders? because thats my definition of "elite ball skills".

I like the way rudolph catches the ball, and i like that he looks like he can block at the nfl level. He looks like a complete TE.

prock
07-31-2010, 01:47 PM
Actually a lot of corners have 4.37 speed. Elite speed for a corner is in the 4.2's. He doesnt have elite speed with regards to nfl corners. He has above average speed, but not top level speed. Again I dont see these elite ball skills. I dont see deion sanders running around out there playing corner for lsu. Do you see deion sanders? because thats my definition of "elite ball skills".

I like the way rudolph catches the ball, and i like that he looks like he can block at the nfl level. He looks like a complete TE.

Visanthe Shiancoe is a very good receiving tight end and a competent blocker, and we have other very good blocking tight ends. Stop arguing about the Vikings team needs when you obviously have no idea what we need.

And you need to stop comparing PP to Deion. He doesn't need to be Deion. PP has better timed speed or equal timed speed to Revis and Asomoah, and they shut down entire halves of the football field. How many corners have 4.2 speed? Deangelo Hall? Pacman Jones? Very very very very few, and most of them aren't any good. You don't need 4.2 speed. With the new rule changes, it is almost impossible for any corner to dominate as much as Deion did, but if you can get a Revis or an Asomoah, like PP easily has the potential to be as good as, then it is absolutely worth a top 10, maybe even a top 5 pick. For example, the Lions have their quarterback, there isn't going to be a left tackle worth a top 5 pick, so if they are picking 5th overall and Peterson is on the board, they should take him. There is unlikely to be a 4-3 d-end worth a top 5 pick either, so the BPA would absolutely be PP.

bce
07-31-2010, 02:20 PM
But hes 30 years old and never going to be potentially one of the best, like rudolph could potentially be. Its just a mock draft based on my board. Im sure they could go in other directions. I dont feel im overdrafting kyle rudolph and i see that they could use an upgrade but again they could certainly go in another direction.

As i see it, unless i belichicked my way into the top 10, if i have a bad football team, adding namdi asmough isnt going to help. So why would i draft a player whos not going to help make me a substantially better team. Again betting that peterson is darelle revis, good luck with that bet.

I compare him to deion sanders, because if i have said bad team, he better be deion sanders if im going eschew a position of higher value and take him and pay him 30+ mil guaranteed.

prock
07-31-2010, 05:40 PM
But hes 30 years old and never going to be potentially one of the best, like rudolph could potentially be. Its just a mock draft based on my board. Im sure they could go in other directions. I dont feel im overdrafting kyle rudolph and i see that they could use an upgrade but again they could certainly go in another direction.

Even if Rudolph was better than Shiancoe, which he definitely won't be for at least a year or two, why does it make sense to spend a first round pick on "upgrading" a position that really doesn't need to be upgraded?

As i see it, unless i belichicked my way into the top 10, if i have a bad football team, adding namdi asmough isnt going to help. So why would i draft a player whos not going to help make me a substantially better team. Again betting that peterson is darelle revis, good luck with that bet.

I compare him to deion sanders, because if i have said bad team, he better be deion sanders if im going eschew a position of higher value and take him and pay him 30+ mil guaranteed.

Betting that the most physically gifted and technically sound corner back of the past decade is gonna be a super star is not a long shot. I understand positional values, and I value the secondary more than you, because this is a passing league, so defending the pass is obviously important. The other difference is that I understand player values. You obviously will never be convinced of anything rational, so I don't need to bother I guess.

AntoinCD
08-01-2010, 07:43 AM
I am voting for Green. Green is going to be a stud.

Green's off the board already.

I'll say Luck declares and due to the crapness of Garrard the Jags pick him(2)

prock
08-01-2010, 12:53 PM
Green's off the board already.

I'll say Luck declares and due to the crapness of Garrard the Jags pick him(2)

I saw the name Green with a vote by it for the Jags so I just seconded it lol...

bce
08-01-2010, 04:04 PM
Even if Rudolph was better than Shiancoe, which he definitely won't be for at least a year or two, why does it make sense to spend a first round pick on "upgrading" a position that really doesn't need to be upgraded?



Betting that the most physically gifted and technically sound corner back of the past decade is gonna be a super star is not a long shot. I understand positional values, and I value the secondary more than you, because this is a passing league, so defending the pass is obviously important. The other difference is that I understand player values. You obviously will never be convinced of anything rational, so I don't need to bother I guess.

Hes only the most physically gifted 220lb man. DRC ran a 4.28. Hes not the most physically gifted corner in the last decade. Hes the most physically gifted 220 lb corner maybe, but youre using a weight speed ratio to determine "most physically gifted" at a position where being 220 lbs is irrelevant. Youre calling him the "most technically sound" theres no way you could know that and i highly doubt that its true.

You dont read the past. You dont look at how champions are constructed. You dont see that there are no superstar hof corners on the last 5 world champions. And yet, you pretend to know whats best for playing winning football. The problem with your arguments is that theres no basis in nfl team constructing logic for them. Its just this guy is the best prospect at whatever position and therefore since hes a "supposed better prospect" than so and so hes the guy you should pick.

You take no account of how the champions construct their football teams. Its just this guy is the best prospect and thats it. But unfortunately thats not it. If you just took a minute to look at the rosters of the teams that are competing for worlds championships and see how they are constructed, then you would never in your right mind think of taking patrick peterson or any corner that high in the draft if you were even considering trying to turn your 4-12 team into a championship contender. You would build your team exactly how they do, and its not by using top 5 picks on corners.

prock
08-01-2010, 04:14 PM
Hes only the most physically gifted 220lb man. DRC ran a 4.28. Hes not the most physically gifted corner in the last decade. Hes the most physically gifted 220 lb corner maybe, but youre using a weight speed ratio to determine "most physically gifted" at a position where being 220 lbs is irrelevant. Youre calling him the "most technically sound" theres no way you could know that and i highly doubt that its true.

You dont read the past. You dont look at how champions are constructed. You dont see that there are no superstar hof corners on the last 5 world champions. And yet, you pretend to know whats best for playing winning football. The problem with your arguments is that theres no basis in nfl team constructing logic for them. Its just this guy is the best prospect at whatever position and therefore since hes a "supposed better prospect" than so and so hes the guy you should pick.

You take no account of how the champions construct their football teams. Its just this guy is the best prospect and thats it. But unfortunately thats not it. If you just took a minute to look at the rosters of the teams that are competing for worlds championships and see how they are constructed, then you would never in your right mind think of taking patrick peterson or any corner that high in the draft if you were even considering trying to turn your 4-12 team into a championship contender. You would build your team exactly how they do, and its not by using top 5 picks on corners.

There isn't an exact formula for building a championship team. You build a championship team by drafting value. The more good football players you have, generally the better you will be. The key to drafting is value. You can get good pass rushers and good tackles later in the draft, it isn't exclusively in the top 10 where you can get good players. Some players perform better in the pros, some players develop faster or better than others, that is the beauty of the draft. No one ever knows who is going to be the best player before the draft. That is why you draft on potential and capabilities. When players produce and have the physical ability to take their game to the next level, those are your highest picks. Just because someone produced in college doesn't mean they will be a good pro, and just because someone has all the physical tools doesn't mean they will be either. The draft is a crap shoot in that sense, which is why you need to try and judge each case as an individual, and not clump them all together and generalize like you always do. If you want to always reach for a player at a position of need, you won't be a good football team. If the value isn't there, you don't try and reach for it. Your problem is that you think the draft is a formula. You also think it is a conspiracy. That is your irrational opinion, and if you think that, all the logic in the world won't be able to change your mind because you are 100% hopeless when it comes to football. I can only hope you one day run a team so you can draft the Brandon Graham's of the world number one overall, because that is where you will always be picking.

wicket
08-01-2010, 04:22 PM
St.louis- von miller
Detroit- romeus
tampa-ingram
way to early for a running back that is nothing more than a pounder, way to early for a running back full stop actually
kc- Malett
buf- RG 3
I love RG3 but he has to purchase a whole new arm to be able to even go first 3 rounds, let alone fourth overall
cleve- baldwin
seattle- john clay
lame power back who can be gotten in the third/fourth
jax- jarrod johnson
no value or anything really
NE jeremy beal
already got brandon spikes to match up with mayo
wash-anthony allen
borderline draftable, has to learn the transition and plays the toughest position in the wishbone to transition from to a real offense
miami- jacquizz rodgers
lesser dexter mccluster with no experience out wide yet, 2 rounds to early
chicago- julio jones
denver- cameron heyward
steelers- patrick peterson
carolina-pierre allen
WAY to high for him
giants- robert sands
way to high for him
titans- jabal sheard
was the weakest player on pitts DLine last year
sf- isaih pead
barely draftable
houston- ryan williams
drafted a back in last years draft in the second round
philly- terrel pryor
cant play football
ariz- akeem ayers
bad value, drafted darryl washington for the same spot
cincy- michael floyd
atl- allen bailey
pure 34 player
ne- travis benjamin
jets-marcel dareus
ravens-armon binns
godawful value
gb- adrian clayborn
dal- jared crick
sd- jerrel powe
min-kyle rudolph
colts- stepehn paea
no- w saunders
drafting a Tight End makes no sense, even when you want to write off Shockey the replacement is just drafted in jimmy graham

bolded picks are the one that make absolutely no sense. I want to state that quite a few of the other picks are mediocre picks as well but the bolded ones are all just terrible. And please dont give me the value is an opinion bs cuz there are values that are that absurd that they are way beyond opinion. Im not going to put Harrison SMith in the first round either.

couple of hints
power backs have no value whatsoever, they are available in bulk
drafting tight ends is only usefull when you need one
big east is terrible
dual threat qbs dont work in the pros
aj green is better than other wideouts in this class

CLong4Heisman
08-01-2010, 04:24 PM
Hes only the most physically gifted 220lb man. DRC ran a 4.28. Hes not the most physically gifted corner in the last decade. Hes the most physically gifted 220 lb corner maybe, but youre using a weight speed ratio to determine "most physically gifted" at a position where being 220 lbs is irrelevant. Youre calling him the "most technically sound" theres no way you could know that and i highly doubt that its true.

You dont read the past. You dont look at how champions are constructed. You dont see that there are no superstar hof corners on the last 5 world champions. And yet, you pretend to know whats best for playing winning football. The problem with your arguments is that theres no basis in nfl team constructing logic for them. Its just this guy is the best prospect at whatever position and therefore since hes a "supposed better prospect" than so and so hes the guy you should pick.

You take no account of how the champions construct their football teams. Its just this guy is the best prospect and thats it. But unfortunately thats not it. If you just took a minute to look at the rosters of the teams that are competing for worlds championships and see how they are constructed, then you would never in your right mind think of taking patrick peterson or any corner that high in the draft if you were even considering trying to turn your 4-12 team into a championship contender. You would build your team exactly how they do, and its not by using top 5 picks on corners.

James Harrison shows that elite pass rushers don't need to be taken high. The top 3 corners in football are Woodson, Asomugha and Revis. All 3 of them were picked in the first round and Woodson was the 4th overall pick.

Let's flash back to the 1998 NFL draft. The 3rd pick? A pass rusher by the name of Andre Wadsworth.
2007 draft Revis goes 14th. The 2 pass rushers that went above him? Jammal Anderson and Gaines Adams. If that draft is redone, then Revis is a top 5 pick
2003 NFL draft and the only defensive end/linebacker worth taking was Terrell Suggs. Re do the draft and he goes top 5 plus Terrence Newman went 5th in that draft and Dallas has been pretty good lately.
You also talk about middle linebackers not being important. Last 5 champs had Gary Brackett, Jonathan Vilma, James Farrior, Antonio Pierce. Half of those are first round picks so you're hitting about a 50-50 clip.

bce
08-01-2010, 04:45 PM
And the top 3 corners in the league have won how many worlds chamionships between them? And how many worlds championship teams has terrence newman been a party to?

James farrior and jonathan vilma did not win a worlds championship with the team that picked them. So youre batting 0 for 4 there.

And lets keep things in the somewhat relevant present.

bce
08-01-2010, 04:46 PM
How many playoff teams have charles woodson darelle revis, namdi asmough, and terrence newman been a party to?

prock
08-01-2010, 04:47 PM
Football is a team sport. What is hard to understand about that?

wicket
08-01-2010, 04:50 PM
Football is a team sport. What is hard to understand about that?

i dont know but he clearly doesnt understand that.

Thinking about that, Im pretty sure Big Bens best season was his rookie season in his book.

bce
08-01-2010, 04:53 PM
bolded picks are the one that make absolutely no sense. I want to state that quite a few of the other picks are mediocre picks as well but the bolded ones are all just terrible.

couple of hints
power backs have no value whatsoever, they are available in bulk
drafting tight ends is only usefull when you need one
big east is terrible
dual threat qbs dont work in the pros
aj green is better than other wideouts in this class

I see john clay as more than just a power back, hes a power back with some speed and agility

A young upgrade over an average old player is always useful

Who says anything about dual threat qb's? My basis is their physical passing ability, a few may be able to run a bit but being a runner has nothing to do with it

Big east may be terrible as far as college conference depth goes but there are plenty of prospects there

Aj green is better is opinion not based on fact. AJ green is not the most physically gifted wr in the class, aj green is not the most productive receiver in the class, and aj green is injury prone. And ive been looking at a lot of the boards, hes falling fast, and with good reason.

bce
08-01-2010, 04:54 PM
Football is a team sport. What is hard to understand about that?

I understand its a team sport where some players are more important than others.
Thats what you dont understand.

CLong4Heisman
08-01-2010, 04:55 PM
And the top 3 corners in the league have won how many worlds chamionships between them? And how many worlds championship teams has terrence newman been a party to?

James farrior and jonathan vilma did not win a worlds championship with the team that picked them. So youre batting 0 for 4 there.

And lets keep things in the somewhat relevant present.

How many playoff games has Mario Williams been to? 0
How many super bowls does Jared Allen have? 0
Demarcus Ware? 0, Dumervil? 0. Please call Charles Grant an elite DE so I can mention his 47 career sacks.

How many DE/pass rushers have been taking top 5? "Recently" Peppers and Williams who have a combined 0 Super bowl wins. James Harrison was cut by Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Jared Allen was traded to a GOOD TEAM. Robert Mathis was a 5th round pick.

bce
08-01-2010, 04:55 PM
bolded picks are the one that make absolutely no sense. I want to state that quite a few of the other picks are mediocre picks as well but the bolded ones are all just terrible.

couple of hints
power backs have no value whatsoever, they are available in bulk
drafting tight ends is only usefull when you need one
big east is terrible
dual threat qbs dont work in the pros
aj green is better than other wideouts in this class

Please explain why they make no sense.

prock
08-01-2010, 04:57 PM
I understand its a team sport where some players are more important than others.
Thats what you dont understand.

No, I understand that. I understand certain positions are more valuable. You don't understand that you need a balance of positional and player value. You don't understand one player can't win by himself.

bce
08-01-2010, 05:01 PM
How many playoff games has Mario Williams been to? 0
How many super bowls does Jared Allen have? 0
Demarcus Ware? 0, Dumervil? 0. Please call Charles Grant an elite DE so I can mention his 47 career sacks.

How many DE/pass rushers have been taking top 5? "Recently" Peppers and Williams who have a combined 0 Super bowl wins. James Harrison was cut by Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Jared Allen was traded to a GOOD TEAM. Robert Mathis was a 5th round pick.

Thats fine if youre assuming that you can get james harrison or robert mathis in the 5th round or in the free agent pool. Chances arent very good though.

The point is not that every great pass rusher is going to win a super bowl. The point is that you need great pass rushers to win super bowls. The point is you dont need great corners to win super bowls. Its proven fact. just look at the teams that are winning championships. Theres no namdi asmoughs or charles woodsons on those teams. There are mario williams demarcus ware jared allen type players on those teams, as far as rushing the passer.. If you want to bank you can get one in rd 4 or the free agent pool, go for it, but chances arent that great.

CLong4Heisman
08-01-2010, 05:05 PM
Individual players don't win Super Bowl. TEAMS need to stop the run, TEAMS need to make sure WRs don't get free ( take a look at the elite receivers in the Super Bowl, there are a lot of those). Of course pass rushing is important but so is have a secondary in case the pass rush gets picked up or you're facing Peyton Manning who thrives when you blitz.

wicket
08-01-2010, 05:11 PM
Please explain why they make no sense.

i gave my first thoughts on all those picks but the whole point of making no sense is that there is more than 1 single reason that they are a bad pick and I dont really feel like doing an entire writeup on each and every picks you made

wicket
08-01-2010, 05:12 PM
Thats fine if youre assuming that you can get james harrison or robert mathis in the 5th round or in the free agent pool. Chances arent very good though.

The point is not that every great pass rusher is going to win a super bowl. The point is that you need great pass rushers to win super bowls. The point is you dont need great corners to win super bowls. Its proven fact. just look at the teams that are winning championships. Theres no namdi asmoughs or charles woodsons on those teams. There are mario williams demarcus ware jared allen type players on those teams, as far as rushing the passer.. If you want to bank you can get one in rd 4 or the free agent pool, go for it, but chances arent that great.

saints had great corners and a mediocre pass rush at best and won the superbowl, just saying

wicket
08-01-2010, 05:15 PM
btw bce, your rep is really impressive in a sinister sorta way

prock
08-01-2010, 05:18 PM
Thats fine if youre assuming that you can get james harrison or robert mathis in the 5th round or in the free agent pool. Chances arent very good though.

The point is not that every great pass rusher is going to win a super bowl. The point is that you need great pass rushers to win super bowls. The point is you dont need great corners to win super bowls. Its proven fact. just look at the teams that are winning championships. Theres no namdi asmoughs or charles woodsons on those teams. There are mario williams demarcus ware jared allen type players on those teams, as far as rushing the passer.. If you want to bank you can get one in rd 4 or the free agent pool, go for it, but chances arent that great.

Not every great pass rusher will win the Super Bowl, not every great corner will win the Super Bowl. Look at that, I just used your exact same point for me, and it countered your argument you made earlier! Whoa!

You can get good players anywhere as long as you scout well and develop players well. Teams are built in the later rounds.

bce
08-01-2010, 05:28 PM
Individual players don't win Super Bowl. TEAMS need to stop the run, TEAMS need to make sure WRs don't get free ( take a look at the elite receivers in the Super Bowl, there are a lot of those). Of course pass rushing is important but so is have a secondary in case the pass rush gets picked up or you're facing Peyton Manning who thrives when you blitz.


The saints surely didnt stop any running. I agree to a poitn, except, some players are more important in winning super bowls than others. You have to have a secondary but you dont need to have the worlds best secondary, the colts/saints surely dont, if you have an elite pass rush. If you dont have a pass rush it doesnt matter whos playing in your secondary. Its going to get beat.

prock
08-01-2010, 05:29 PM
The saints surely didnt stop any running. I agree to a poitn, except, some players are more important in winning super bowls than others. You have to have a secondary but you dont need to have the worlds best secondary, the colts/saints surely dont, if you have an elite pass rush. If you dont have a pass rush it doesnt matter whos playing in your secondary. Its going to get beat.

The Saints have a top 3 secondary in the league. They have a mediocre pass rush at best. You can get good pass rushers in later rounds.

bce
08-01-2010, 05:29 PM
saints had great corners and a mediocre pass rush at best and won the superbowl, just saying

I dont know, are tracy prorter and whoever the other guy is "great corners"

wicket
08-01-2010, 05:30 PM
I dont know, are tracy prorter and whoever the other guy is "great corners"

tracy porter is just good, jabari greer is great, but both of them easily are better than ike taylor

CLong4Heisman
08-01-2010, 05:35 PM
I dont know, are tracy prorter and whoever the other guy is "great corners"

HAHAHAHA Jabari Greer was one of the best in the game last year. Charles Grant, the elite DE, had 5.5. sacks. His second and 3rd year he had 10 and 10.5 respectively. The Saints had a great secondary last year but you were too busy telling them they didn't have elite ball skills to notice.

prock
08-01-2010, 05:35 PM
http://www.ultimatenyg.com/2010-articles/may/analysis-of-defensive-ends-taken-in-the-first-round-of-the-draft-2000-2009.html

Recent track record of defensive ends taken in the first round. Have a read.

bce
08-01-2010, 05:43 PM
Even in the fantasy circles ive never heard tracy porter or jabari greer described as "great". I guess if you think that makes your argument calling tracy porter and jabari greer elite nfl corners. But I think thats an inflation

wicket
08-01-2010, 05:45 PM
Even in the fantasy circles ive never heard tracy porter or jabari greer described as "great". I guess if you think that makes your argument calling tracy porter and jabari greer elite nfl corners. But I think thats an inflation

just check out what happened when they were both out injured, those games are all you need to see.

other things worth mentioning

when they were both fit opponent qbs were held to the lowest passer rating in the league and this was done with a fairly mediocre defense around them.

CLong4Heisman
08-01-2010, 05:46 PM
Even in the fantasy circles ive never heard tracy porter or jabari greer described as "great". I guess if you think that makes your argument calling tracy porter and jabari greer elite nfl corners. But I think thats an inflation

Replace Porter and Greer with Will Smith and Charles Grant and corners with defensive ends and there you go.

bce
08-01-2010, 05:47 PM
http://www.ultimatenyg.com/2010-articles/may/analysis-of-defensive-ends-taken-in-the-first-round-of-the-draft-2000-2009.html

Recent track record of defensive ends taken in the first round. Have a read


You still have to take them. Theyre still absolutely necessary. Im sure if you pulled up any position you could put together a list of busts. Doesnt change anything that they bust out at the same rate as others do. Its the same with qbs, the cvost of them busting is lower than the cost of passing and having them pan out. Now if you put into that list the pass rushers that should have been taken in the first round, then that list looks a lot better.

bce
08-01-2010, 05:48 PM
Replace Porter and Greer with Will Smith and Charles Grant and corners with defensive ends and there you go.

Most teams would be quite happy with the will smith, charles grant bobby mccray combo. Is it the best, no, but is it a high end pass rush unit, compared to a lot of teams, yes.

CLong4Heisman
08-01-2010, 05:49 PM
You still have to take them. Theyre still absolutely necessary. Im sure if you pulled up any position you could put together a list of busts. Doesnt change anything that they bust out at the same rate as others do. Its the same with qbs, the cvost of them busting is lower than the cost of passing and having them pan out. Now if you put into that list the pass rushers that should have been taken in the first round, then that list looks a lot better.

Well thank you captain obvious.

bce
08-01-2010, 05:53 PM
Drafting mistakes. Passing on pass rush prospects. Passing on guys with the gift to take the guy with his name on sportscenter all the time who plays defensive tackle. Thats how you get an elvis dumervill in the 4th round or demarcus ware with the 9th pick, or james harrison as an ufa. Mistakes mistakes mistakes.

wicket
08-01-2010, 06:07 PM
Most teams would be quite happy with the will smith, charles grant bobby mccray combo. Is it the best, no, but is it a high end pass rush unit, compared to a lot of teams, yes.

will smith is an above average pass rusher, yes but the combo is probably about league average.

last years 4-3 teams with combos I like better (off the top of my head) Colts, Vikings, Texans, Panthers, Eagles and that is just off the top of my head

wicket
08-01-2010, 06:08 PM
Drafting mistakes. Passing on pass rush prospects. Passing on guys with the gift to take the guy with his name on sportscenter all the time who plays defensive tackle. Thats how you get an elvis dumervill in the 4th round or demarcus ware with the 9th pick, or james harrison as an ufa. Mistakes mistakes mistakes.

so basically if everyone drafts pass rushers high there will be no late round suprises, jeesh

bce
08-01-2010, 06:14 PM
There shouldnt be late round surprises at that position. Everyone should be stockpiling players who can rush the passer.

wicket
08-01-2010, 06:16 PM
There shouldnt be late round surprises at that position. Everyone should be stockpiling players who can rush the passer.

so there should be no late round suprises in a position that has historically proven to be very tough to predict but teams should not spend high draft picks on a position that is equally important and is relatively easy to predict

bce
08-01-2010, 06:17 PM
will smith is an above average pass rusher, yes but the combo is probably about league average.

last years 4-3 teams with combos I like better (off the top of my head) Colts, Vikings, Texans, Panthers, Eagles and that is just off the top of my head

Every team 500 or better. Now look at the records of teams that have sub standard pass rushers. You dont have to have the absolute #1 pass rush combo, but you better be able to rush the passer, and thus, you better draft pass rushers.

bce
08-01-2010, 06:19 PM
so there should be no late round suprises in a position that has historically proven to be very tough to predict but teams should not spend high draft picks on a position that is equally important and is relatively easy to predict

You should stockpile them. You should pick pierre paul when you have tuck osi and kiwanuka. You should pick jason worilds and thad gibson when you have james harrison and lamarr woodley. You should pick jerry hughes when you have robert mathis and dwight freeney.

You shouldnt pick joe haden or eric berry when you have no one. The cost of passing and them panning out is greater than the cost of them busting

wicket
08-01-2010, 06:27 PM
Every team 500 or better. Now look at the records of teams that have sub standard pass rushers. You dont have to have the absolute #1 pass rush combo, but you better be able to rush the passer, and thus, you better draft pass rushers.

Colts have drafted 1 DE in the last 4 years up to 2009 season
Vikings have drafted 2 DEs in the last 4 years up to 2009 season
Saints have drafted 1 DE in the last 4 years up to 2009 season

thats not a lot of DEnds being drafted and it worked out pretty well for the three of them.

wicket
08-01-2010, 06:29 PM
You should stockpile them. You should pick pierre paul when you have tuck osi and kiwanuka. You should pick jason worilds and thad gibson when you have james harrison and lamarr woodley. You should pick jerry hughes when you have robert mathis and dwight freeney.

You shouldnt pick joe haden or eric berry when you have no one. The cost of passing and them panning out is greater than the cost of them busting

colts, steelers and giants dont have the gaping holes that the browns and chiefs do cant compare the situation. Saints proved that yuo dont need an above average pass rush to win the big one and they werent the first one to do so either

bce
08-01-2010, 06:48 PM
You can certainly compare the situation. The cheifs and browns dont have any pass rushers. Those teams already have them and they still picked pass rushers. Can never have too many. And this idea that the saints pass rush combo is not above average, is simply not true. They have three pass rushers on their team who have had all had double digit sack seasons in the nfl.

bce
08-01-2010, 06:51 PM
The colts werent devoid of pass rushers in that period, they had 2 elites, and the vikings also signed an elite pass rusher, so basically they drafted 2 pass rushers. The saints, although they already had charles grant and will smith, both rd 1 picks, signed bobby mccray. They stockpiled pass rushers.

wicket
08-01-2010, 06:51 PM
You can certainly compare the situation. The cheifs and browns dont have any pass rushers. Those teams already have them and they still picked pass rushers. Can never have too many. And this idea that the saints pass rush combo is not above average, is simply not true. They have three pass rushers on their team who have had all had double digit sack seasons in the nfl.

yeah and charles grant is miles past his prime, mccray never was anything more than rotational anyway. the only guy who is still a good player is the fresh prince and even he is on the downturn

tenorx
08-01-2010, 06:54 PM
The cheifs and browns dont have any pass rushers.

Tamba Hali? He is pretty awesome.

bce
08-01-2010, 06:55 PM
Theyve all had double digit sack seasons in the nfl, you need rotational guys, you need as many as can play. Im not saying use top 5 picks if you already have dwight freeney and robert mathis, Its like using a top 5 pick if you already have ben roethlisberger, but teams picking in the top 5 generally arent in that situation. Teams picking in the top 5 dont have elite pass rushers. So you have to draft them. You cant pass if theres an elite pass rush prospect for any position other than qb if you dont have 2 of them at least.

bce
08-01-2010, 06:56 PM
Tamba hali is not an elite nfl pass rusher, not even close, they were last in the league in sacks i believe, and their record is refelctive.

CLong4Heisman
08-01-2010, 06:56 PM
You can for LT. The best tackles dominates the best pass rushers.

bce
08-01-2010, 07:05 PM
It wouldnt be the worst decision in the world, but you dont need to have the worlds greatest lt to win nfl championships. You need an adequate lt, and you need to use high picks on lt because there arent that many humans who can play that position. If I had to choose, im going with the pass rusher, but lt is certainly a position of high value.

prock
08-01-2010, 10:57 PM
It wouldnt be the worst decision in the world, but you dont need to have the worlds greatest lt to win nfl championships. You need an adequate lt, and you need to use high picks on lt because there arent that many humans who can play that position. If I had to choose, im going with the pass rusher, but lt is certainly a position of high value.

http://www.ultimatenyg.com/2010-articles/may/analysis-of-defensive-ends-taken-in-the-first-round-of-the-draft-2000-2009.html

Take the left tackle, the pass rusher can be had later.

prock
08-01-2010, 11:00 PM
The colts werent devoid of pass rushers in that period, they had 2 elites, and the vikings also signed an elite pass rusher, so basically they drafted 2 pass rushers. The saints, although they already had charles grant and will smith, both rd 1 picks, signed bobby mccray. They stockpiled pass rushers.

Charles Grant is average at best, Will Smith is good. Ray Edwards is good, and he was taken in the 4th. Bobby McCray is not in any way a great pass rusher. I think it is funny how you think adding Bobby McCray is stockpiling pass rushers but the Lions signing Vanden Bosch isn't doing anything for the pass rush.

dannyz
08-02-2010, 12:06 AM
Julio jones to the Jag's. Let's get back on topic it seem like every thing we talk about gets off topic.