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View Full Version : Prospect of the Day: DT Cameron Heyward, Ohio State


Mr. Goosemahn
07-17-2010, 03:07 PM
To see previously discussed prospects, click here.
Jake Locker - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2230943&posted=1#post2230943



http://www.thebuckeyebattlecry.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Cameron-Heyward.jpg

DL Cameron Heyward, Ohio State
6'6 - 287 lbs. - Senior

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The guy is a beast. I think he can be a great DT or 3-4 DE, definitely has the skill set IMO. Kinda reminds me of Richard Seymour.

How does he rate vs. last year's top DTs though?

Sniper
07-17-2010, 03:09 PM
He's not a DT. He plays inside on passing downs, but he's primarily a DE.

Also, he's ridiculous.

TACKLE
07-17-2010, 03:31 PM
Heyward is a monster. He's one of the best 3-4 DE prospects in years. Though I could easily see a 4-3 team drafting him to play the 3-technique.

bce
07-17-2010, 03:34 PM
He's not a DT. He plays inside on passing downs, but he's primarily a DE.

Also, he's ridiculous.



You know katie perry has a spray on tan in that video. i saw her on american idol. white as casper.

bce
07-17-2010, 03:37 PM
Maybe you should enlighten us on some prospects we dont know about. yes cameron heyward is a great prospect. Everyone knows.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-17-2010, 03:40 PM
He's a 5-tech all the way as far as I'm concerned. That said, a lot of teams are going to be looking for a 5-tech next year and he's good enough to go top 10.

It's hard to measure him against this past crop of DT's, because Heyward doesn't profile as an interior 3 or 2-tech.

bce
07-17-2010, 03:53 PM
Its pretty easy to measure him against them. Hes better. And hes still not really worth a top 10 pick.

Why doesnt he profile for the 4-3? If you can play interior line in the nfl you are not scheme specific.

This idea that "he can only play the 5 technique" its pegging. hes certainly physically able to play dt in the 4-3. Just because hes not sedrick ellis body build doesnt mean he cant play in the 4-3 on the interior. Is his best position in the 3-4? maybe but if hes a great player he can play in both. Great prospects and high draft picks shouldnt be "scheme specific", because if you change your scheme then its a waste pick. I dont see cameron heyward as scheme specific. hes versatile. Thats why hes valuable, because he works in any defense.

wonderbredd24
07-17-2010, 04:17 PM
Can he slide inside and play as a 3 technique in the 4-3? Yea, he could, but I wouldn't.

If I was going to draft him and I'm running the 4-3, I'd play him at left end and move him inside in obvious passing situations. He's a fantastic player against the run and he's very athletic for a guy his size and is more capable of playing at the power end spot giving a team substantial size and power against the run.

Personally, I think his skillset is more suited for the 3-4 and he's far and away the best in the class for that role. He's a better prospect than Tyson Jackson, who went 3rd overall in his draft. Heyward is more than qualified to be taken in the top 10.

Shane P. Hallam
07-17-2010, 04:30 PM
Heyward is just a bit too beefy to be, say, a Justin Tuck type of player in that role. Thus why it may be hard for him to find an exact fit.

bce
07-17-2010, 04:32 PM
Im not disagreeing that the 3-4 may suit his talents better, but if hes really a great prospect, and i think he is, he'll be able to succeed in either situation.

Im going to disagree on playing a pass rushing position. You need a pass rusher on both ends of your line, and hes a little too heavy footed for my taste, i dont see a double digit per year sack player, so im not picking him high to play off the edge.

Again it comes back to just because a guy (tyson jackson or otherwise) was picked #3 doesnt mean he should have been and doesnt mean cameron heyward should because hes a better prospect than said player. Its a question of position value and interior lineman are low on the totem pole. Dont get me wrong i love heyward but positional value has top come into play.

Brent
07-17-2010, 07:52 PM
Maybe you should enlighten us on some prospects we dont know about. yes cameron heyward is a great prospect. Everyone knows.
read some of the posts from the other "Prospect of the Day" thread, he said he was going to start with Scott Wright's Top 12 for 2011.

bce
07-17-2010, 07:59 PM
Maybe he should change his strategy and enlighten us rather than repeat whats everyones already choking on for the past year.

JFLO
07-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Sounds bad because I'm graduating from The Ohio State University next spring, but I'm not as big on Heyward as most people from a strict Draft Prospect perspective. I think his technique needs more work than most people think and he's not the pass rusher that most are making him out to be either, at least at the next level I mean. I think most people are overrating his transition at the next level.

He definitely has the size and potential to be a special player at the next level, but right now it just seems like a lot of potential than anything else. The defensive line, today more than anytime it seems like, seems to be the hardest spot for a lot of rookies to make a smooth transition. It's not like wide receiver, linebacker or running back. That is another reason why I fear for Heyward's potential. Granted, it sounds like I'm predicting a boom or bust type deal for his first year or two, but I think he'll take time to develop in the NFL regardless.

FUNBUNCHER
07-17-2010, 08:34 PM
Draft him no earlier than late 1st, bulk him up about 25# and let him use his athleticism inside in a 4-3.

Right now he's a strongside end in a 43 or a 34 DE. I haven't seen him play enough, but I don't get that vibe that Heyward can be a quality player in the pros like I did with Will Smith when he came out of OSU.

TACKLE
07-17-2010, 08:49 PM
Draft him no earlier than late 1st, bulk him up about 25# and let him use his athleticism inside in a 4-3.

Right now he's a strongside end in a 43 or a 34 DE. I haven't seen him play enough, but I don't get that vibe that Heyward can be a quality player in the pros like I did with Will Smith when he came out of OSU.

This post pretty clearly demonstrates that you haven't seen him play enough. Cam will be a top 15 pick and will most likely go in the top 10. He is one of the best 3-4 DE prospects in years and has an elite skill-set for the position. His game is nothing like Will Smith's. Smith was a 6'3 270 pure 4-3 DE and Heyward is a 6'5 290 DE/DT. Other than the fact that they are both Buckeye DE's, they really don't have very much else in common.

RealityCheck
07-17-2010, 08:57 PM
To be honest, at this point, I'd be surprised if he gets past #5.

wonderbredd24
07-17-2010, 08:57 PM
Sounds bad because I'm graduating from The Ohio State University next spring, but I'm not as big on Heyward as most people from a strict Draft Prospect perspective. I think his technique needs more work than most people think and he's not the pass rusher that most are making him out to be either, at least at the next level I mean. I think most people are overrating his transition at the next level.

He definitely has the size and potential to be a special player at the next level, but right now it just seems like a lot of potential than anything else. The defensive line, today more than anytime it seems like, seems to be the hardest spot for a lot of rookies to make a smooth transition. It's not like wide receiver, linebacker or running back. That is another reason why I fear for Heyward's potential. Granted, it sounds like I'm predicting a boom or bust type deal for his first year or two, but I think he'll take time to develop in the NFL regardless.

You are right about his technique, which is why that is specifically what he says he is working on this season along with his hands. We've already gotten a glimpse of the result in the spring practices and the spring game where he was getting by opposing tackles with his quickness and technique instead of just his power.

And it never hurts playing in the Big Ten against some fantastic offensive lines and this year, he will have an early showcase game against Miami and Orlando Franklin at least in spots as he rotates to both sides of the lines.

bce
07-17-2010, 09:25 PM
Sounds bad because I'm graduating from The Ohio State University next spring, but I'm not as big on Heyward as most people from a strict Draft Prospect perspective. I think his technique needs more work than most people think and he's not the pass rusher that most are making him out to be either, at least at the next level I mean. I think most people are overrating his transition at the next level.

He definitely has the size and potential to be a special player at the next level, but right now it just seems like a lot of potential than anything else. The defensive line, today more than anytime it seems like, seems to be the hardest spot for a lot of rookies to make a smooth transition. It's not like wide receiver, linebacker or running back. That is another reason why I fear for Heyward's potential. Granted, it sounds like I'm predicting a boom or bust type deal for his first year or two, but I think he'll take time to develop in the NFL regardless.


No ones making him out to be a pass rtusher at the next level, because hes not a pass rusher at the next level.IF they are then thats where the mistake is. Hes an interior defensive lineman. So how would you rate him as an interior defensive lineman at the nfl level?

bce
07-17-2010, 09:27 PM
Draft him no earlier than late 1st, bulk him up about 25# and let him use his athleticism inside in a 4-3.

Right now he's a strongside end in a 43 or a 34 DE. I haven't seen him play enough, but I don't get that vibe that Heyward can be a quality player in the pros like I did with Will Smith when he came out of OSU.

Thats because youre comparing him to an edge rusher.

princefielder28
07-17-2010, 09:48 PM
He's a better prospect than Tyson Jackson and I imagine any 3-4 team sitting between 6-10 will be looking to add him. I also can't believe anyone would try to compare him to Will Smith; they've got different skill sets!

CB31
07-17-2010, 10:22 PM
Like most people said, he's a monster at the 3-4 DE. Great motor, and holds his own at the LOS. I think he could also add a little bulk to that frame. The bloodlines can't hurt either. While obviously not his strong suit, he could benefit from some pass-rushing moves. Technique could use some refinement, especially with his hands (as wonderbredd stated) as well.

ThePudge
07-19-2010, 02:33 PM
Like others have said, Heyward is a rare fit as a 5-Tech, his ideal position both in college & at the NFL level. If a 4-3 team were to draft him, outside the Top 10-15, they'd be expecting a 3-Tech; however, his real draft value lies in a "30" front where he can really play to his strengths while eliminating some of the weaknesses you see from him inside, playing Under-Tackle.

If a team had the gall to draft Tyson Jackson in the Top 5 overall, then another 5-Tech needy franchise, such as Cleveland could find him well worth a choice among the draft's top picks. It wouldn't surprise me to see some 3-4 teams rank Heyward as the best defensive player in the draft come April.

Cameron Heyward - Ohio State
Defensive End #2 - Overall #6
6052e 294e - 4.95e

A hard player to place, Ohio State's Cameron Heyward might be one of the most proven defensive linemen in his class. As a three-year contributor for the Buckeyes, he's shown the ability to line up at Defensive Tackle or End and remain effective. Can be a dominating player at times, proving too explosive for some interior linemen and too strong for Offensive Tackles to handle consistently. For years Heyward has been a rock along the defensive line, showing surprising maturity from his freshman year in which he was named to the Freshman All-America team. His father, Craig, spent time in the NFL and could be helping his son prepare for the mental & physical wear that is sure to accompany Cameron in his senior season and moving forward.

A strong run-defender who likely won't be putting together 8-10 sack seasons in the NFL, Heyward seems destined for the integral 5-Tech position. When at his best he uses his length and power to control blockers, a true force against both the pass and run. He still must battle some inconsistencies in his technique which may be holding him back from taking over some games. He may also be best suited for a weight closer to 305-310 in order to add some additional anchor strength to a frame that looks as if it could afford to hold up to 20-25 more pounds without a significant loss in foot speed. If he can show a bit more consistency along with improved technique then a Top 5-10 choice wouldn't be far-fetched. It wouldn't be a surprise to see Heyward emerging as one of the nation's most intimidating forces up front.

Pros
+ Excellent size, long, thickly built, muscular, and sturdy
+ Very good athlete for his size, fluid, quick, and agile
+ Upper body strength, can over-power smaller OL
+ Gets into the backfield and influences plays, a mismatch for interior linemen
+ Great tackler, powerful wrap-up tackler that rarely lets one get away
+ Controls blockers with those long arms & upper body power, sheds blocks well
+ Powerful base, gets good leg drive and isn't moved easily in the run game
+ Relentless, a high-motor player that works to the whistle
+ Strong in pursuit, with considerable awareness & athleticism
+ Draws double teams and shows the ability to beat them when he's at his best
+ Plays big against top opponents, stepped up vs. USC, Wisconsin, and Oregon
+ Experienced in a number of positions/roles playing for a top collegiate program
+ Rare fit for the 5-Tech could add to NFL Draft value
+ High-character player, smart & a hard-worker with NFL bloodlines
+ Can get his hands up to disrupt passing lanes
+ Durable, takes care of his body and hasn't missed time in three years

Cons
- Inconsistent technique, can struggle when OL get into his body
- Needs work with hand placement, could be throwing blockers around
- Tends to disappear when faced with lower competition instead of dominating
- May be too tall for a 3-Tech and not quite quick/fast enough for an End
- Won't ever be considered a particularly dangerous pass-rusher
- Might struggle to get leverage playing inside at the next level
- Must show continued improvement to live up to First Round billing

LonghornsLegend
07-19-2010, 06:00 PM
I haven't been in love with drafting a 3-4 DE this much probably ever. I'm usually keen on waiting for this position, but he truly seems like a guy who could transform a 3-4 DE from average to really good like we say a great NT could.


It's very rarely I see a guy and say he's primarily a fit as a 3-4 End, but he could be a game changer at that position very easily, there are so many things to not and not very many to hate about him.

bored of education
07-19-2010, 08:47 PM
lets focus on the topic at hand and gobble the junk of Cam Heyward. Tyson Jackson will be a better NFL player than him. Book that **** bitches!

TheRoo
07-23-2010, 04:55 PM
lets focus on the topic at hand and gobble the junk of Cam Heyward. Tyson Jackson will be a better NFL player than him. Book that **** bitches!

lol.


Cameron Heyward is twice the player that Jackson is.


Heyward is a Richard Seymour clone. He is a great fit for a 3-4, but he could play end or tackle in a 4-3. He uses his hands as well as any defender, has decent speed and is very, very strong at the point of attack. He can play in any system. I would love to see my Browns pick him up next year.

FUNBUNCHER
07-23-2010, 06:09 PM
Is Cameron the son of former Pitt Panther great Craig 'Ironhead' Heyward, the NFL's last 275# tailback??

If he is, too bad his dad is deceased.

TheRoo
07-23-2010, 08:38 PM
Is Cameron the son of former Pitt Panther great Craig 'Ironhead' Heyward, the NFL's last 275# tailback??

If he is, too bad his dad is deceased.

Yes.................

dannyz
07-24-2010, 02:04 AM
After the Top 12 Seniors, will you guy's be doing UnderClassmen?

Mr. Goosemahn
07-24-2010, 01:55 PM
After the Top 12 Seniors, will you guy's be doing UnderClassmen?

Yup, I plan on doing the top ones.

dannyz
07-24-2010, 02:44 PM
Cool. It should go Patrick Peterson,Andrew Luck,A.J Green.

Big Bird
07-24-2010, 03:51 PM
Heyward is a 1st Round prospect, just not sure where exactly he fits in yet. I can't see him Top 10 because he's a not a dominate interior Lineman nor edge rusher. He's in between.

I'm intrigued on what he will do with more playing time, whether or not it'll actually help him or if he'll get tired. Let's not forgot people, he only played 2/3 of the snaps last year because of OSU's rotation...

descendency
07-24-2010, 05:21 PM
Heyward is a 1st Round prospect, just not sure where exactly he fits in yet. I can't see him Top 10 because he's a not a dominate interior Lineman nor edge rusher. He's in between.

Ron Borges is an idiot but he sums up what you are saying quite nicely about another prospect:

"On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sack last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end."

If a 34 team who needs a 5 technique is drafting in the top 10 (see Patriots, if the Raiders suck), he will be a top 10 pick. He's a great 5 technique prospect.

bce
07-24-2010, 09:00 PM
I watched him twice today vs penn st and michigan, they couldnt handle him. I couldnt justify a top 5 pick on an interior defensive lineman, but any time after that might be worth a look if you needed help badly on your interior dl. Playing almost exclusively 3-4 which i liked as well. hes definitely a better player than gerald mccoy or ndumkong suh.

Sniper
07-24-2010, 09:05 PM
I watched him vs michigan

Not exactly the pinnacle of collegiate offensive lines. I mean, I think Heyward's a very good prospect and all, but Mark Ortmann and Mark Huyge aren't exactly Jake Long and Joe Thomas.

bce
07-24-2010, 09:18 PM
He was actually better against penn st., but regardless, i came away just as impressed as ive alwyas been . The guy just brings it every game. If you dont double him hes wreaking havoc.

he makes "first party plays"

cajuncorey
07-24-2010, 11:31 PM
heyward is a solid player that imo is better than clayborne even though claybornes motor might be better. like you mentioned hes a lot like richard seymour and looks promising

Big Bird
07-24-2010, 11:50 PM
Michigan AND Penn State both had terrible Tackles last season. Heyward is getting Top 10 hype because people look at games look that against schools with names like that and blindly think he dominated good talent. Penn State's tackles (this coming from a Penn State fan) were trash last year and he basically let him do whatever he wanted. Rarely ever even doubled him. It was just stupidity at it's finest.

prock
07-25-2010, 06:53 PM
hes definitely a better player than gerald mccoy or ndumkong suh.

Based on what?

ThePudge
07-25-2010, 08:18 PM
Michigan AND Penn State both had terrible Tackles last season. Heyward is getting Top 10 hype because people look at games look that against schools with names like that and blindly think he dominated good talent. Penn State's tackles (this coming from a Penn State fan) were trash last year and he basically let him do whatever he wanted. Rarely ever even doubled him. It was just stupidity at it's finest.

And what excuses do you offer for his games against USC, Wisconsin, and Oregon? USC's Charles Brown and Wisconsin's Gabe Carimi are very solid LTs at the college level and Heyward was constantly in the backfield in the Rose Bowl. People giving him Top 10 hype aren't looking at statistics; to be frank, Heyward's statistics aren't entirely indicative of the force the guy is against the run and pass. He's getting that hype because he's flashed total dominance on the field and he's a picture perfect fit for the 5-Tech, a position in much higher demand than ever before (with more teams running a 3-4 scheme.) He has his inconsistencies and he's certainly not there yet, but he's got massive potential due to his size, strength, agility, experience, and versatility.

For me, he's one of the Top 10 best, most proven players in this class and if he can improve (especially working with his hands/leverage) then there's no reason to believe a 5-Tech needy team wouldn't seriously consider Cameron Heyward as high as the Top 10-15 picks.

On another note, I really don't want 'bce' giving this guy a bad name by standing up for him and creating insanely stupid arguments/reasonings. We've got to be able to completely ignore the guy, really, it isn't worth any of your time.

TheRoo
07-26-2010, 03:07 PM
Michigan AND Penn State both had terrible Tackles last season. Heyward is getting Top 10 hype because people look at games look that against schools with names like that and blindly think he dominated good talent. Penn State's tackles (this coming from a Penn State fan) were trash last year and he basically let him do whatever he wanted. Rarely ever even doubled him. It was just stupidity at it's finest.

He dominated Wisnewski from PSU who is a top ranked interior lineman by many.

bce
07-27-2010, 07:30 PM
Like others have said, Heyward is a rare fit as a 5-Tech, his ideal position both in college & at the NFL level. If a 4-3 team were to draft him, outside the Top 10-15, they'd be expecting a 3-Tech; however, his real draft value lies in a "30" front where he can really play to his strengths while eliminating some of the weaknesses you see from him inside, playing Under-Tackle.

If a team had the gall to draft Tyson Jackson in the Top 5 overall, then another 5-Tech needy franchise, such as Cleveland could find him well worth a choice among the draft's top picks. It wouldn't surprise me to see some 3-4 teams rank Heyward as the best defensive player in the draft come April.

Cameron Heyward - Ohio State
Defensive End #2 - Overall #6
6052e 294e - 4.95e

A hard player to place, Ohio State's Cameron Heyward might be one of the most proven defensive linemen in his class. As a three-year contributor for the Buckeyes, he's shown the ability to line up at Defensive Tackle or End and remain effective. Can be a dominating player at times, proving too explosive for some interior linemen and too strong for Offensive Tackles to handle consistently. For years Heyward has been a rock along the defensive line, showing surprising maturity from his freshman year in which he was named to the Freshman All-America team. His father, Craig, spent time in the NFL and could be helping his son prepare for the mental & physical wear that is sure to accompany Cameron in his senior season and moving forward.

A strong run-defender who likely won't be putting together 8-10 sack seasons in the NFL, Heyward seems destined for the integral 5-Tech position. When at his best he uses his length and power to control blockers, a true force against both the pass and run. He still must battle some inconsistencies in his technique which may be holding him back from taking over some games. He may also be best suited for a weight closer to 305-310 in order to add some additional anchor strength to a frame that looks as if it could afford to hold up to 20-25 more pounds without a significant loss in foot speed. If he can show a bit more consistency along with improved technique then a Top 5-10 choice wouldn't be far-fetched. It wouldn't be a surprise to see Heyward emerging as one of the nation's most intimidating forces up front.

Pros
+ Excellent size, long, thickly built, muscular, and sturdy
+ Very good athlete for his size, fluid, quick, and agile
+ Upper body strength, can over-power smaller OL
+ Gets into the backfield and influences plays, a mismatch for interior linemen
+ Great tackler, powerful wrap-up tackler that rarely lets one get away
+ Controls blockers with those long arms & upper body power, sheds blocks well
+ Powerful base, gets good leg drive and isn't moved easily in the run game
+ Relentless, a high-motor player that works to the whistle
+ Strong in pursuit, with considerable awareness & athleticism
+ Draws double teams and shows the ability to beat them when he's at his best
+ Plays big against top opponents, stepped up vs. USC, Wisconsin, and Oregon
+ Experienced in a number of positions/roles playing for a top collegiate program
+ Rare fit for the 5-Tech could add to NFL Draft value
+ High-character player, smart & a hard-worker with NFL bloodlines
+ Can get his hands up to disrupt passing lanes
+ Durable, takes care of his body and hasn't missed time in three years

Cons
- Inconsistent technique, can struggle when OL get into his body
- Needs work with hand placement, could be throwing blockers around
- Tends to disappear when faced with lower competition instead of dominating
- May be too tall for a 3-Tech and not quite quick/fast enough for an End
- Won't ever be considered a particularly dangerous pass-rusher
- Might struggle to get leverage playing inside at the next level
- Must show continued improvement to live up to First Round billing


I disagree totally with these cons, except that he is not a future dangerous pass rusher, as far as elite edge pass rushers go, but as far as interior lineman go, he may be an elite pass rusher. If he does have inconsistent technique, it certainly doesnt hinder him. I mainly watched games against the top competition, because its better to evaluate on those games, but the idea that he "disappeared" i dont buy that. He doesnt need to show "improvement" to solidify first round status. He was dominant plain and simple. If you didnt block him with two guys, he was going to be a problem. Far better player than gerald mccoy, in every way shape and form.

ThePudge
07-27-2010, 07:49 PM
I disagree totally with these cons, except that he is not a future dangerous pass rusher, as far as elite edge pass rushers go, but as far as interior lineman go, he may be an elite pass rusher. If he does have inconsistent technique, it certainly doesnt hinder him. I mainly watched games against the top competition, because its better to evaluate on those games, but the idea that he "disappeared" i dont buy that. He doesnt need to show "improvement" to solidify first round status. He was dominant plain and simple. If you didnt block him with two guys, he was going to be a problem. Far better player than gerald mccoy, in every way shape and form.

Interesting... but seeing as I don't respect your opinion, nor do I think much of your evaluation techniques, I'm not going to give a proper rebuttal. Cameron Heyward is the best defensive prospect since the Industrial Revolution.

P.S.... Ohio State fan that's watched every single game Heyward has ever played at the college level.

bce
07-27-2010, 08:18 PM
I dont give creedence to amateurs who attempt to evaluate players based on "technique". I evaluate based on plays that they make that resemble nfl plays, how what they do on the field translates to the nfl.

Unless youre a coach for them (and i know a lot of the buckeye world or nation think they are) you have no idea of what his techniques i supposed to be or if its good or bad. Theyre obviously happy with his play, he plays great for them, they were arguably the best defensive team in college football, and he was their best player. Watching every ohio state game ever doesnt make you the authority on players from ohio st with regards to whats going to happen in the nfl. That is obvious when you question the "technique" of a player when you could not have any clue or inclination as to whether hes employing the proper technique on a given play, unless youre in the coaches box or somehow have access to to what hes supposed to be doing and how.

I can say cameron heyward makes nfl plays. Its easy to see. But you could never even pretend to know how he is supposed to be performing his duties, what techniques hes supposed to be using and whether its good or poor. Even if it is poor, imagine whats going to happen when hes taught "proper" techniques in the nfl.

ThePudge
07-27-2010, 08:22 PM
I dont give creedence to amateurs who attempt to evaluate players based on "technique".

So the concept of an NFL scout doesn't exactly make sense to you?

prock
07-27-2010, 08:29 PM
I dont give creedence to amateurs who attempt to evaluate players based on "technique". I evaluate based on plays that they make that resemble nfl plays, how what they do on the field translates to the nfl.

Unless youre a coach for them (and i know a lot of the buckeye world or nation think they are) you have no idea of what his techniques i supposed to be or if its good or bad. Theyre obviously happy with his play, he plays great for them, they were arguably the best defensive team in college football, and he was their best player. Watching every ohio state game ever doesnt make you the authority on players from ohio st with regards to whats going to happen in the nfl. That is obvious when you question the "technique" of a player when you could not have any clue or inclination as to whether hes employing the proper technique on a given play, unless youre in the coaches box or somehow have access to to what hes supposed to be doing and how.

I can say cameron heyward makes nfl plays. Its easy to see. But you could never even pretend to know how he is supposed to be performing his duties, what techniques hes supposed to be using and whether its good or poor. Even if it is poor, imagine whats going to happen when hes taught "proper" techniques in the nfl.

It is pretty laughable that you don't think you can evaluate someone's technique, seeing that their technique is shown in the actions they take, which are visible with eyes.

ThePudge
07-27-2010, 08:40 PM
It is pretty laughable that you don't think you can evaluate someone's technique, seeing that their technique is shown in the actions they take, which are visible with eyes.

No no no... WHAT!? I have no idea what you're thinking with this post prock. It's a real mystery to me why you've stumbled upon this football forum, maybe you'd be better suited for a... stupid forum. You're telling me that something actually happens between the beginning and end of the play that can't be recorded in statistics? That football players use technique when trying to get open, get into the backfield, etc.? It doesn't make sense.. I have half a mind to come to Minnesota and slap you in person after I neg rep you every day for a month and a half (at least)

bce
07-27-2010, 08:40 PM
So the concept of an NFL scout doesn't exactly make sense to you?

The conept of a coach who knows the plays and what hes supposed to be doing and what technique hes supposed to be employing on a given play makes sense to me. A fan pretending to know these things doesnt make sense to me.

prock
07-27-2010, 08:42 PM
The conept of a coach who knows the plays and what hes supposed to be doing and what technique hes supposed to be employing on a given play makes sense to me. A fan pretending to know these things doesnt make sense to me.

Oh, so if you aren't a coach, you don't know anything about football. OK, got you.

bce
07-27-2010, 08:52 PM
You dont know anything about what technique a player is supposed to be employing or whether or not its good or poor, unless you are a coach and know what technique they are supposed to be employing. Evaluation based on "technique" by draftniks and amateurs is attempt to make it appear they know something that they dont to look like they know something that everyone else doesnt.

ThePudge
07-27-2010, 08:55 PM
What about NFL scouts? What are they paid money to do?

You could just pay an iguana a nickel an hour to look at statistics for your "evaluation."

Your football threshold is extremely thin and your arrogance doesn't help. To talk intelligently about football you need to be willing to learn and you have to understand that you can pick apart every single motion each player makes on the field, not just the end result of the play or the box score.

descendency
07-27-2010, 08:56 PM
The conept of a coach who knows the plays and what hes supposed to be doing and what technique hes supposed to be employing on a given play makes sense to me. A fan pretending to know these things doesnt make sense to me.

You know what the humorous thing is... this is actually half of a valid point.

You can't completely evaluate players without some knowledge of the plays being called. The evaluation is incomplete. However, even an incomplete analysis tends to yield similar opinions as the NFL scouts. If you look at most big boards from respected NFL analyst (aka fans), they tend to resemble the draft results (outside of a few crazy picks - like Tyson Alualu).

The reason this works is because there are basic/fundamental skills that every position has that can be graded which allows you to use educated guessing on how well they would transition to your scheme.

bce
07-27-2010, 09:25 PM
When scouts/coaches are watching film, they know whats supposed to be happening, what a player is supposed to be doing on a given play. Draft geeks do not. So when a draft geek evaluates this way, i can only assume the truth, which is theyre trying to make it look like they know something that they do not.

I know it hurts when im right, i know it stings the soul to agree with me. Its ok though. Nothing will happen, except prock may unleash a **** based attack on you, but you'll survive.

prock
07-28-2010, 12:43 AM
You know what the humorous thing is... this is actually half of a valid point.

You can't completely evaluate players without some knowledge of the plays being called. The evaluation is incomplete. However, even an incomplete analysis tends to yield similar opinions as the NFL scouts. If you look at most big boards from respected NFL analyst (aka fans), they tend to resemble the draft results (outside of a few crazy picks - like Tyson Alualu).

The reason this works is because there are basic/fundamental skills that every position has that can be graded which allows you to use educated guessing on how well they would transition to your scheme.

You can tell what the team is running by watching the play and evaluating what everyone else is doing, put it all together, and wallah! You have a play. The point was that you absolutely can evaluate Heyward's technique by watching him play, you can figure out what his assignments are by watching. I am glad you are agreeing with the most ignorant poster on SWDC today.

K Train
07-28-2010, 08:09 AM
Cameron Heyward is the best defensive prospect since the Industrial Revolution.



lol nice....i love heyward. any of the top 3 34ends would be ok with me. i dont know why i have a soft spot for ohio state linemen....gholston, gibson, heyward <3333333 (LSU linemen do the same thing for me)


1) Heyward
2)Dareus
3)Bailey

all should be first rounders, i think heyward has the best shot at sneaking in the top 10

Mr. Goosemahn
07-28-2010, 11:35 AM
Depending on how the Raiders play, this guy could wind up being Richard Seymour's replacement in NE.

K Train
07-28-2010, 11:38 AM
thats just something i would love to not happen.

i thought for sure they take odrick this year....

BigBanger
09-01-2010, 07:30 PM
Haywerd isn't the most physically gifted defensive end you'll find, but he does possess good athletic ability for his natural position of 34 DE. He lacks the speed and explosiveness to be an impact player as a 43 DE. Haywerd is a tough, physical linemen that has a great motor and the kind of character that will get all of the potential he has out of him. Haywerd has really good size and length with some room to pack on more weight. He plays with incredible leverage (Great bullrush) and very good handwork. He disengages from blockers very well (uses his long arms to keep good separation), and in one-on-one situations has the ability to stack, shed and toss a defender out of the way. His size is good, but his strength can improve and he does get engulfed by double teams and will lose ground on occasion. He is not overly stout at the point of attack. He's not dominate and never will be in any phase of the game, but he's a very smart football player that is always in the right position, works well in traffic and plays with discipline and good technique. Not a ton of potential left, but he could develop into one of the better 34 DEs in the NFL. Maybe a bit of an overachiever that never quits on a play. He'll make tackles behind the line of scrimmage, at the line or ten and fifteen yards down field. Brings a lot of versatility and hustle.