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Joe M Charlie
07-18-2010, 05:56 PM
Post your pre training camp power rankings here.

This will be a bit different than my projected standings. I had a few weeks to think about it.

If you want to critisize my rankings then post your own, thanks.

1. New Orleans Saints
2. Dallas Cowboys
3. Indianapolis Colts
4. Green Bay Packers
5. Minnesota Vikings
6. New York Jets
7. Baltimore Ravens
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. San Diego Chargers
10. New England Patriots
11. Cincinnatti Bengals
12. Houston Texans
13. San Francisco 49ers
14. Pittsburgh Steelers
15. New York Giants
16. Philadelphia Eagles
17. Washington Redskins
18. Chicago Bears
19. Tennessee Titans
20. Denver Broncos
21. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
22. Detroit Lions
23. Miami Dolphins
24. Seattle Seahawks
25. Arizona Cardinals
26. Kansas City Chiefs
27. Oakland Raiders
28. Carolina Panthers
29. Jacksonville Jaguars
30. St. Louis Rams
31. Buffalo Bills
32. Cleveland Browns

CLong4Heisman
07-18-2010, 06:09 PM
Post your pre training camp power rankings here.

This will be a bit different than my projected standings. I had a few weeks to think about it.

If you want to critisize my rankings then post your own, thanks.

1. New Orleans Saints
2. Dallas Cowboys
3. Indianapolis Colts
4. Green Bay Packers
5. Minnesota Vikings
6. New York Jets
7. Baltimore Ravens
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. San Diego Chargers
10. New England Patriots
11. Cincinnatti Bengals
12. Houston Texans
13. San Francisco 49ers
14. Pittsburgh Steelers
15. New York Giants
16. Philadelphia Eagles
17. Washington Redskins
18. Chicago Bears
19. Tennessee Titans
20. Denver Broncos
21. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
22. Detroit Lions
23. Miami Dolphins
24. Seattle Seahawks
25. Arizona Cardinals
26. Kansas City Chiefs
27. Oakland Raiders
28. Carolina Panthers
29. Jacksonville Jaguars
30. St. Louis Rams
31. Buffalo Bills
32. Cleveland Browns

Can we criticize your spelling instead?

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-18-2010, 06:20 PM
1 Indianapolis Colts
2 Green Bay Packers
3 Baltimore Ravens
4 Dallas Cowgirls
5 Atlanta Falcons
6 Houston Texans
7 Minnesota Vikings
8 New York Giants
9 Cincinnati Bengals
10 New York Jets
11 San Francisco 49ers
12 San Diego Chargers
13 New Orleans Saints
14 New England Patriots
15 Pittsburgh Steelers
16 Oakland Raiders
17 Tennessee Titans
18 Washington Redskins
19 Philadelphia Eagles
20 Carolina Panthers
21 Denver Broncos
22 Miami Dolphins
23 Detroit Lions
24 Arizona Cardinals
25 Jacksonville Jaguars
26 Kansas City Chiefs
27 Seattle Seahawks
28 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
29 Chicago Bears
30 Cleveland Browns
31 Buffalo Bills
32 St. Louis Rams

zachsaints52
07-18-2010, 06:34 PM
13 New Orleans Saints


Wow... so the Saints get better, yet fall all the way to 13th.

Brent
07-18-2010, 06:38 PM
man, the 49ers are getting overrated at this point. QB play is kind of a big deal.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-18-2010, 06:59 PM
man, the 49ers are getting overrated at this point. QB play is kind of a big deal.

Upgrades on your offensive line, a full training camp for Beast Tree, and smith made decent strides last season. I see the rest of the NFC west being total crap.

BlindSite
07-18-2010, 07:09 PM
Overall Power Rankings are kind of ******** so I'll just do it by division:

AFC East:
1. Dolphins 1a. Jets
3. Patriots
4. Bills

AFC North:
1. Ravens
2. Pittsburgh
3. Cincinatti
4. Cleveland

AFC South:
1. Indianapolis
2. Houston
3. Tennessee
4. Jacksonville

AFC West:
1. San Diego
2. Kansas City
3. Denver
4. Oakland

NFC East:
1. Dallas
2. Philly
3. New York
4. Washington

NFC North:
1. Packers
2. Vikings
3. Lions
4. Chicago

NFC West:
1. Arizona
2. 49ers
3. Seattle
4. St Louis

NFC South
1. New Orleans
2. Carolina
3. Atlanta
4. Tampa

CC.SD
07-18-2010, 07:50 PM
Both of the lists in this thread so far are pretty bad IMO.

zachsaints52
07-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Top 5:
1. Saints
2. Ravens
3. Jets
4. Colts
5. Cowboys/Chargers

GB12
07-18-2010, 08:19 PM
1. Indianapolis Colts
2. New Orleans Saints
3. Dallas Cowboys
4. Green Bay Packers
5. Baltimore Ravens
6. Minnesota Vikings
7. San Diego Chargers
8. New England Patriots
9. Atlanta Falcons
10. Miami Dolphins
11. New York Jets
12. Arizona Cardinals
13. Houston Texans
14. Cincinnati Bengals
15. Carolina Panthers
16. Pittsburgh Steelers
17. San Francisco 49ers
18. New York Giants
19. Tennessee Titans
20. Oakland Raiders
21. Chicago Bears
22. Washington Redskins
23. Philadelphia Eagles
24. Detroit Lions
25. Jacksonville Jaguars
26. Denver Broncos
27. Cleveland Browns
28. Kansas City Chiefs
29. Seattle Seahawks
30. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
31. Buffalo Bills
32. St. Louis Rams

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-18-2010, 08:39 PM
Both of the lists in this thread so far are pretty bad IMO.

I applaud your effort on compiling a list. The most part i tried to mix them up. An someone seems to be bitter there team is not ranked very high.

zachsaints52
07-18-2010, 08:41 PM
I don't see what the Colts did this offseason to make you think they will be #1, much less #1 in the AFC. They got Hughes and Angerer but both of them are bakcups. You lose Lilja and now your probably starting a rookie or Andy Alleman? Is Hayden gonna come back from his injury? And still Addai is your number one runner, behind a line whose probably not better then last years.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-18-2010, 08:58 PM
Upgrades on your offensive line, a full training camp for Beast Tree, and smith made decent strides last season. I see the rest of the NFC west being total crap.

That may justify predicting the Niners winning the division, but it doesn't justify rating them high in power rankings. Bad competition doesn't actually make a team better.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-18-2010, 08:59 PM
I don't see what the Colts did this offseason to make you think they will be #1, much less #1 in the AFC. They got Hughes and Angerer but both of them are bakcups. You lose Lilja and now your probably starting a rookie or Andy Alleman? Is Hayden gonna come back from his injury? And still Addai is your number one runner, behind a line whose probably not better then last years.

What is with the personal vendetta against the colts? Why not put them at the top? They've only been in the playoffs for 7 straight years i think. The saints had a 3 year playoff drought between appearances. An with the way the NFC south works out this year i wouldn't be surprised if they went 8-8 an missed the playoffs.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-18-2010, 09:02 PM
That may justify predicting the Niners winning the division, but it doesn't justify rating them high in power rankings. Bad competition doesn't actually make a team better.

If Alex Smith continues his progression from last season they could be a very powerful offense.

zachsaints52
07-18-2010, 09:31 PM
What is with the personal vendetta against the colts? Why not put them at the top? They've only been in the playoffs for 7 straight years i think. The saints had a 3 year playoff drought between appearances. An with the way the NFC south works out this year i wouldn't be surprised if they went 8-8 an missed the playoffs.

Vendetta? I didn't say they was bad by any means. Im just saying they didn't help their team out that much this year, like the other teams did. Again, it is for the reasons I mentioned before. OL still sucks, everyone gotten a year older, key players have injuries (Gonzo, Hayden, Sanders) who knows how they will be when they come back? While another AFC like the Ravens got a Pro Bowl WR, another WR in Stallworth, a pass rusher to compliment Suggs, a behemoth at NT to spell Gregg since he is older, and they kept their main guys in tact.

And your gonna say the Saints will be bad because its "how the NFC South works" thats the best you can do? Come on man.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-18-2010, 10:09 PM
Vendetta? I didn't say they was bad by any means. Im just saying they didn't help their team out that much this year, like the other teams did. Again, it is for the reasons I mentioned before. OL still sucks, everyone gotten a year older, key players have injuries (Gonzo, Hayden, Sanders) who knows how they will be when they come back? While another AFC like the Ravens got a Pro Bowl WR, another WR in Stallworth, a pass rusher to compliment Suggs, a behemoth at NT to spell Gregg since he is older, and they kept their main guys in tact.

And your gonna say the Saints will be bad because its "how the NFC South works" thats the best you can do? Come on man.

Well when the division has not had a repeat winner ya it makes sense. I didn't feel the need to break down how Moore is a better QB than Delhomme and the falcons will have a healthy Ryan and Turner. Just for fun ill throw out the madden curse. No reason to believe the saints will have back to back good seasons. The colts o-line still sucks it has not stopped them, Gonzo and Sanders has not stopped them(we still made the super bowl with those against us).

PACKmanN
07-18-2010, 11:07 PM
Wow... so the Saints get better, yet fall all the way to 13th.

losing 2 of your 4 starters on the DL and the best guy in the Superbowl, LT, and still having a weak LB core isn't acutally getting better.

jrdrylie
07-18-2010, 11:24 PM
1. Indianapolis Colts
2. Green Bay Packers
3. New Orleans Saints
4. New England Patriots
5. Baltimore Ravens
6. Dallas Cowboys
7. Houston Texans
8. New York Jets
9. San Diego Chargers
10. Cincinnati Bengals
11. Minnesota Vikings
12. Washington Redskins
13. Chicago Bears
14. Atlanta Falcons
15. Miami Dolphins
16. New York Giants
17. Tennessee Titans
18. Philadelphia Eagles
19. Arizona Cardinals
20. San Francisco 49ers
21. Pittsburgh Steelers
22. Detroit Lions
23. Oakland Raiders
24. Carolina Panthers
25. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
26. Seattle Seahawks
27. Kansas City Chiefs
28. Denver Broncos
29. Jacksonville Jaguars
30. Buffalo Bills
31. Cleveland Browns
32. St. Louis Rams

LonghornsLegend
07-18-2010, 11:44 PM
That may justify predicting the Niners winning the division, but it doesn't justify rating them high in power rankings. Bad competition doesn't actually make a team better.


I think they are legit. They took the Vikes down to the wire and took a miracle play from Favre to beat them, and that was a team who should have been in the SB. They were beating the Colts I think by 10 points late in the 4th quarter, and held them to 3 points nearly the entire game and they were in the SB. They beat the Cardinals ass on national television and they were a playoff team.


I think the Niners have made enough improvements to make them legit. Alex Smith is going to be improved, even if you argue how much, and pretty much everything else improved on the team.



They lost a number of close games last year, and took some of the leagues best teams in the league down to the wire, I don't know why it's so hard to fathom to people that they are a legit team or will be much better.

vidae
07-19-2010, 12:32 AM
Both of the lists in this thread so far are pretty bad IMO.

Don't be mad that the Chiefs are CREEPIN UP ON THE AFC WEST!

Job
07-19-2010, 01:11 AM
32. Seattle Seahawks
31. Kansas City Chiefs
30. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
29. Buffalo Bills
28. Jacksonville Jaguars
27. St. Louis Rams
26. Chicago Bears
25. Cleveland Browns
24. Oakland Raiders
23. Washington Redskins
22. Philadelphia Eagles
21. Tennessee Titans
20. Pittsburgh Steelers
19. Detroit Lions
18. Carolina Panthers
17. Houston Texans
16. Denver Broncos
15. Miami Dolphins
14. Arizona Cardinals
13. Atlanta Falcons
12. San Francisco 49ers
11. New England Patriots
10. New York Jets
9. Cincinnati Bengals
8. New York Giants
7. Baltimore Ravens
6. Minnesota Vikings
5. Green Bay Packers
4. Dallas Cowboys
3. San Diego Chargers
2. New Orleans Saints
1. Indianapolis Colts

Disclaimer : This list is full of bias and severely lacks logic.

vikes_28
07-19-2010, 02:00 AM
I don't even really see what the point of making power rankings BEFORE the season is for. Aside from last year and how the teams drafted (neither of which tell you much, cause you don't know how the rookies are going to do, and how teams did last year have nothing to do with how they WILL do), really there is nothing to base your rankings off of. The only thing that power rankings this early mean is "hey look at me, i have an opinion."

CC.SD
07-19-2010, 02:02 AM
I applaud your effort on compiling a list. The most part i tried to mix them up. An someone seems to be bitter there team is not ranked very high.

Why would you assume I'm bitter, little insecure. You kind of just made a bad list. I mean if you like I could take it apart piece by piece, but now you're talking about vendettas and pretending Alex Smith's progression makes the 9ers better than the SB Champ Saints so.............

Don't be mad that the Chiefs are CREEPIN UP ON THE AFC WEST!

you know I love the Chiefs. <3 <3 vidae

eeth
07-19-2010, 05:19 AM
Man, the Lions are getting a lot of love which is cool by me, but maybe a little too much

tjsunstein
07-19-2010, 07:34 AM
Not only are these lists useless and full of bias but so are the comments.

A trend with these preseason lists yearly:
- 49ers, Lions, Texans being overrated.
- Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers underrated.
- Chiefs, Browns, Bills, and Rams in the bottom 5.
- Dolphins and Panthers look like they're thrown on.

Follow these and you basically have the foundation to a 'list'.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 08:45 AM
Not only are these lists useless and full of bias but so are the comments.

A trend with these preseason lists yearly:
- 49ers, Lions, Texans being overrated.
- Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers underrated.
- Chiefs, Browns, Bills, and Rams in the bottom 5.
- Dolphins and Panthers look like they're thrown on.

Follow these and you basically have the foundation to a 'list'.

The steelers lost one of their starting lineman on an already revolving door of a line with roethlisberger missing a chunk of the season who knows how he comes back, the pats are not the toast of their division the dolphins and jets wont be stepped all over, and the chargers have big question marks on offense. The above is how you develop an internet ego, attack something calling it stupid apparently thre are more important internet topics to discuss, ignore the topic at hand, and there you have made your internet ***** grow.

LonghornsLegend
07-19-2010, 09:48 AM
Not only are these lists useless and full of bias but so are the comments.

A trend with these preseason lists yearly:
- 49ers, Lions, Texans being overrated.
- Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers underrated.
- Chiefs, Browns, Bills, and Rams in the bottom 5.
- Dolphins and Panthers look like they're thrown on.

Follow these and you basically have the foundation to a 'list'.


So maybe we should just make the list exactly by the final standings of last year. That way there is no change, or parity, and nobody can be over or underrated. I mean, obviously no teams ever go from being sorry to good, and all the playoff teams always make it the next season anyway.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 09:59 AM
losing 2 of your 4 starters on the DL and the best guy in the Superbowl, LT, and still having a weak LB core isn't acutally getting better.

Who did we lose on the DL? Grant and McCray? You got to be kidding me about losing them makes us worse. Grant has been horrible since his new contract, which is why we let him go, and besides the Favre and Warner hit McCray wasn't anything either. And we got Alex Brown and Jimmy Wilkerson, two guys who I would put above McCray. So in essence, we got better there and that point isnt valid

We have never had a good LBing core, so getting to the SB and winning it shows we don't need that good of one because with the Blitzes in Greg Williams system we don't need all-pros. But then again we do have a Pro Bowler in Johnathan Vilma, at LB, so its better then most. And the reason we didn't draft a LB is because of Stanely Arnoux, who will be starting.

And who is LT? Are you talking about Jamaal Brown?

AntoinCD
07-19-2010, 10:00 AM
The steelers lost one of their starting lineman on an already revolving door of a line with roethlisberger missing a chunk of the season who knows how he comes back, the pats are not the toast of their division the dolphins and jets wont be stepped all over, and the chargers have big question marks on offense. The above is how you develop an internet ego, attack something calling it stupid apparently thre are more important internet topics to discuss, ignore the topic at hand, and there you have made your internet ***** grow.

This is what is meant by when people say the Pats are underrated. The Pats arent the 'toast' of their division based off what exactly? The Jets got hot at the right time last year but don't forget they sneaked into the playoffs when they had to beat the Bengals and Colts who both rested their starters. The dolphins have been improving but they have not proven anything yet. They won the division two years ago but that was when Brady got hurt.

It is the easy option to say the Pats window is closing or they dont have the same 'it' they had a few years back.

A lot of the problems the Pats had where around a lack of experience at key times. With a further year in the system players like Mayo, Meriweather, Butler, Chung, Edelman, Vollmer, Tate etc should step it up.

I have yet to hear one convincing arguement as to why I would place either the Jets or Dolphins over the Patriots. Obviously I could be proven wrong but as of right now Im not buying the hype.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 10:02 AM
Well when the division has not had a repeat winner ya it makes sense. I didn't feel the need to break down how Moore is a better QB than Delhomme and the falcons will have a healthy Ryan and Turner. Just for fun ill throw out the madden curse. No reason to believe the saints will have back to back good seasons. The colts o-line still sucks it has not stopped them, Gonzo and Sanders has not stopped them(we still made the super bowl with those against us).

I will not argue with someone whose main reason why a team will not be good is because "history of the nfc south" and madden curse. That is just laughable.

And did I not say the Colts were good? I just said you didn't do anything to help you this year, which the other teams did. So basically, whie you stayed put, other teams jumped you. You get it?

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 10:08 AM
I will not argue with someone whose main reason why a team will not be good is because "history of the nfc south" and madden curse. That is just laughable.

And did I not say the Colts were good? I just said you didn't do anything to help you this year, which the other teams did. So basically, whie you stayed put, other teams jumped you. You get it?

You don't get it. If something has happened for 8 years straight in all likelihood it will probably happen again.

AntoinCD
07-19-2010, 10:16 AM
You don't get it. If something has happened for 8 years straight in all likelihood it will probably happen again.

Not in a league allegedly based on parity. The Colts should be a top 5 team in pretty much every power ranking, however not because they have gone to the playoffs so many years in a row. It's because they have done well surrounding Manning with targets and having a great pass rush. That sounds really simplistic but it's true. It also helps that Manning has been in the same system his whole career.

Without adding much of anything to their team(Hughes will be good but he's way down the depth chart now) they can't expect to stay at the top. If something happens to say Dwight Freeney then the pass rush goes and the Colts defense becomes a lot less formidable.

And remember Peyton Manning had something like 10 4th quarter comebacks last year. Eventually that's going to stop happening

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Not in a league allegedly based on parity. The Colts should be a top 5 team in pretty much every power ranking, however not because they have gone to the playoffs so many years in a row. It's because they have done well surrounding Manning with targets and having a great pass rush. That sounds really simplistic but it's true. It also helps that Manning has been in the same system his whole career.

Without adding much of anything to their team(Hughes will be good but he's way down the depth chart now) they can't expect to stay at the top. If something happens to say Dwight Freeney then the pass rush goes and the Colts defense becomes a lot less formidable.

And remember Peyton Manning had something like 10 4th quarter comebacks last year. Eventually that's going to stop happening

What a waste of a rant. You missed the barn by a mile. The streak i was talking about was the NFC south having a different winner for 8 straight years.

AntoinCD
07-19-2010, 10:27 AM
What a waste of a rant. You missed the barn by a mile. The streak i was talking about was the NFC south having a different winner for 8 straight years.

Ok well I skimmed over it so obviously my last post can be disregarded. I dont agree however that you can base having the Saints so far down because of what happened the previous 8 years in the division.

Job
07-19-2010, 10:29 AM
What a waste of a rant. You missed the barn by a mile. The streak i was talking about was the NFC south having a different winner for 8 straight years.

Do not mistake coincidence for fate.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Ok well I skimmed over it so obviously my last post can be disregarded. I dont agree however that you can base having the Saints so far down because of what happened the previous 8 years in the division.

It is also based on the panthers and falcons being better teams. On paper the Saints are about even with the falcons. If Matty ice is what people think he is the biggest disparity between the two teams will be closed.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 10:32 AM
I hate these threads so much.

Save for a handful, most NFL teams are .500 squads. A bounce here or a bounce there could leave them from anywhere between 6-10 and 10-6.

Injuries and depth will have a far greater outcome on seasons than talent at the top of the roster.

So, other than the elite handful of teams, you're basically trying to guess which teams will catch a few lucky breaks and/or stay healthy and overcome injuries. Good luck Miss Cleo.

Rosebud
07-19-2010, 10:34 AM
Is everyone just assuming the Giants are going to get savagely raped by injuries again this year?

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 10:36 AM
You don't get it. If something has happened for 8 years straight in all likelihood it will probably happen again.

No apparently you don't get it. None of those teams were built longer then to go one year.

The year the Bucs won they let go of Lynch and Sapp and they always had a suspect line and Brad Johnson playing QB. They won because of defense and nothing else.

The Falcons was next and they had Vick. So what you want, but Vick wins games. They didn't place last the next year, they went 8-8, but thats because that was the year everyone but the Saints did amazing, and they almost went to playoffs too. But of course Vicks troubles catch up and the Falcons suck after that.

Bucs won because of Caddilac Williams and Chris Simms did good as rookies. So you really think they would have kept winning the division too?

Saints went on that magical ride because Sean Payton and brees brought the air attack which not alot of teams could deal with, but also had Deuce doing good. Then we release Deuce and our DBs was horrible and everyone threw against us (Jason David much?)

Bucs again, and its Jeff Garcia and Ernest Graham leading the way... see a trend yet? Noone has been built to keep winning.

2008, the Falcons minimized Ryans mistakes and played good D and ran with Turner, then Ryan and Turner have off years because of injuries so no wonder they don't repeat.


So now thats why the "curse of the nfc south" is like it is. No team was built to repeat, the closest thing was the Falcons with Vick, but all his troubles go from there. Now the Falcons are close to the Saints, but is Turner going to be back? Will their DB's actually play well? Do they have someone opposite Abraham because its only him on the pass rush? Will Ryan play as well as everyone expects? And Carolina? Really? The team who has no pass rush, lost one of their star LBs, have a unproven QB, noone but Smith to throw to, and a coaching staff on a one year deal?

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 10:38 AM
Is everyone just assuming the Giants are going to get savagely raped by injuries again this year?

The Giants are an absolutely perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Good luck + relatively injury free=Superbowl winner
Bad bounces + mounting injuries=8-8

And the Giants are much, much more talented than most teams in the league.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 10:45 AM
No apparently you don't get it. None of those teams were built longer then to go one year.

The year the Bucs won they let go of Lynch and Sapp and they always had a suspect line and Brad Johnson playing QB. They won because of defense and nothing else.

The Falcons was next and they had Vick. So what you want, but Vick wins games. They didn't place last the next year, they went 8-8, but thats because that was the year everyone but the Saints did amazing, and they almost went to playoffs too. But of course Vicks troubles catch up and the Falcons suck after that.

Bucs won because of Caddilac Williams and Chris Simms did good as rookies. So you really think they would have kept winning the division too?

Saints went on that magical ride because Sean Payton and brees brought the air attack which not alot of teams could deal with, but also had Deuce doing good. Then we release Deuce and our DBs was horrible and everyone threw against us (Jason David much?)

Bucs again, and its Jeff Garcia and Ernest Graham leading the way... see a trend yet? Noone has been built to keep winning.

2008, the Falcons minimized Ryans mistakes and played good D and ran with Turner, then Ryan and Turner have off years because of injuries so no wonder they don't repeat.


So now thats why the "curse of the nfc south" is like it is. No team was built to repeat, the closest thing was the Falcons with Vick, but all his troubles go from there. Now the Falcons are close to the Saints, but is Turner going to be back? Will their DB's actually play well? Do they have someone opposite Abraham because its only him on the pass rush? Will Ryan play as well as everyone expects? And Carolina? Really? The team who has no pass rush, lost one of their star LBs, have a unproven QB, noone but Smith to throw to, and a coaching staff on a one year deal?

The saints could have the same question marks. Will the young DB's continue to develop? Is Darren Sharper to old to continue his ballhawk ways? Will the wide outs be ok with Brees spreading the ball around? Can Jamaal Brown be replaced? The panthers upgraded their QB position. It is hard to get much worse than Delhomme was playing. The saints play was shaky the last 4 games of the season till they got their heads on straight. There could be more of the team that lost to tampa bay and needed OT to beat the redskins.

Rosebud
07-19-2010, 10:46 AM
The Giants are an absolutely perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Good luck + relatively injury free=Superbowl winner
Bad bounces + mounting injuries=8-8

And the Giants are much, much more talented than most teams in the league.

I'm biased but I don't think the giants are a good example. They went 8-8 in a year where all hell broke lose and everything that could go wrong did, OL, banged up, RBs?, devoured by injuries, WRs?, Young and inconsistent, Eli?, injuries to both feet, the DL? injuries and a lack of quality depth at DT, LB, Injuries and youth, DB, again injuries. The giants got screwed badly by injuries last year and where still a .500 ball club. Having shored up a lot of the team with even just bad luck the giants are a playoff squad.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 10:51 AM
I'm biased but I don't think the giants are a good example. They went 8-8 in a year where all hell broke lose and everything that could go wrong did, OL, banged up, RBs?, devoured by injuries, WRs?, Young and inconsistent, Eli?, injuries to both feet, the DL? injuries and a lack of quality depth at DT, LB, Injuries and youth, DB, again injuries. The giants got screwed badly by injuries last year and where still a .500 ball club. Having shored up a lot of the team with even just bad luck the giants are a playoff squad.

I think you just really wanted to get that off you're chest, because you're just agreeing with what I said.

I didn't say they were a .500 team. I said they're much, much more talented the the majority of the league. When they were healthy and lucky, they won the Superbowl. When riddled with injuries, they went 8-8. I'm just pointing out the extremes that could happen to a team, and why it's pointless to try and predict these things. You can't predict who is going to stay healthy and who is going to have good luck; it's impossible.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 10:51 AM
The saints could have the same question marks. Will the young DB's continue to develop? Is Darren Sharper to old to continue his ballhawk ways? Will the wide outs be ok with Brees spreading the ball around? Can Jamaal Brown be replaced? The panthers upgraded their QB position. It is hard to get much worse than Delhomme was playing. The saints play was shaky the last 4 games of the season till they got their heads on straight. There could be more of the team that lost to tampa bay and needed OT to beat the redskins.

When one of your corners has been in the league for 7 years and the other 4, I dont see how they are young, unless your referring to our 1st roud corner, but of course I bet you knew that.

Darren Sharper is consistent. Check his career, which is a trend your trying to tell me? If he shows the past 8 years he can, why not now?

The wideouts have always been okay with Brees spreading it out, hence the reason you never hear them complain abotu it. They know they compliment each other, and has been talked about for years.

Jamaal didn't play last year, so not too hard to replace him when he wasn't there.

And last 4 games, you mean when we rested players? Because if you check the games, most of our starters didn't play once we locked HFA. Keep trying though.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 10:53 AM
I'm biased but I don't think the giants are a good example. They went 8-8 in a year where all hell broke lose and everything that could go wrong did, OL, banged up, RBs?, devoured by injuries, WRs?, Young and inconsistent, Eli?, injuries to both feet, the DL? injuries and a lack of quality depth at DT, LB, Injuries and youth, DB, again injuries. The giants got screwed badly by injuries last year and where still a .500 ball club. Having shored up a lot of the team with even just bad luck the giants are a playoff squad.

I think it relies on if Jacobs can come back to form, Phillips can actually play (is he 100%?) and is it Goff your MLB now?

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 10:57 AM
When one of your corners has been in the league for 7 years and the other 4, I dont see how they are young, unless your referring to our 1st roud corner, but of course I bet you knew that.

Darren Sharper is consistent. Check his career, which is a trend your trying to tell me? If he shows the past 8 years he can, why not now?

The wideouts have always been okay with Brees spreading it out, hence the reason you never hear them complain abotu it. They know they compliment each other, and has been talked about for years.

Jamaal didn't play last year, so not too hard to replace him when he wasn't there.

And last 4 games, you mean when we rested players? Because if you check the games, most of our starters didn't play once we locked HFA. Keep trying though.

You must not follow the saints closely. They did not lockup HFA advantage till the Vikings lost in week 16 yet the saints starters still played the entire game in a loss to the terrible buccaneers.

Rosebud
07-19-2010, 10:57 AM
I think you just really wanted to get that off you're chest, because you're just agreeing with what I said.

I didn't say they were a .500 team. I said they're much, much more talented the the majority of the league. When they were healthy and lucky, they won the Superbowl. When riddled with injuries, they went 8-8. I'm just pointing out the extremes that could happen to a team, and why it's pointless to try and predict these things. You can't predict who is going to stay healthy and who is going to have good luck; it's impossible.

I totally agree with your point about luck and injuries, but I disagreed with your comment that most teams in the league are .500 teams, there's a good handful of elite teams who are playoff locks barring epic injuries, another half dozen teams who could withstand a number of injuries provided a few key guys stay healthy and make the playoffs and then comes the dozen or so .500 teams who will be a few bounces away from 6-10 or 9-7/10-6.

Rosebud
07-19-2010, 11:02 AM
I think it relies on if Jacobs can come back to form, Phillips can actually play (is he 100%?) and is it Goff your MLB now?

Jacobs doesn't matter, our OL played like **** last year, but we've re-juvenated and we're deep at RB. Also that's less important because Eli has become a damn near elite QB, last year he was a beast and pretty much single handedly won us those 8 games and that was throwing to a bunch of first time NFL receivers who'll be a year more consistent and he won't have two injured feet stopping him from stepping into his throws.

And Goff has looked better when he's played than AP has in years, so he's our starter and we're damn happy to have him.

The biggest question for me is a giants fan is will be our run D. If our DTs are getting pushed around and the ones that aren't get injured again we'll be in a tough spot, but we look strong at DT right now. And we should be a playoff team regardless of if we've fixed the run D or not.

Joe M Charlie
07-19-2010, 11:21 AM
I have to agree with the Bob Sanders guy on the NFC South. Not only is there a new winner every year, but also a new loser as in no team that finishes last, finishes last again. Tampa Bay will probably be good this year and everthing will go their way like New Orleans last year. Somebody that is expected to do good will do bad and end up last. I am going to say New Orleans if anybody though. Everything will go against them like Tampa Bay last year. That is the NFC South curse and it will strike again.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 11:28 AM
You must not follow the saints closely. They did not lockup HFA advantage till the Vikings lost in week 16 yet the saints starters still played the entire game in a loss to the terrible buccaneers.

Im sorry I have to spell it out. 2 of our top 3 corners, 2 OLB's, Reggie, two WR's, and couple of backups were out of the Bucs game. Overall our top 3 corners, 2 OLB's, top 3 RB's, couple OL, Ellis, Brees, Shockey, Two of the top 4 wr's, all missed a complete game in the last 4 games, some missed more then one.

And all we needed was the Vikes to lose one game to seal up HFA, and they were talking about resting Favre the last game, so Payton knew they would lose atleast one.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 11:32 AM
I have to agree with the Bob Sanders guy on the NFC South. Not only is there a new winner every year, but also a new loser as in no team that finishes last, finishes last again. Tampa Bay will probably be good this year and everthing will go their way like New Orleans last year. Somebody that is expected to do good will do bad and end up last. I am going to say New Orleans if anybody though. Everything will go against them like Tampa Bay last year. That is the NFC South curse and it will strike again.

So because teams were built for one year runs (outside the Vick falcons) or got lucky (in both cases for the Bucs after their SB run) its a curse?

Mr. Goosemahn
07-19-2010, 11:35 AM
It's going to be a very interesting start for the Steelers. Losing both Ben and Colon for significant amounts of time will definitely hurt the team. I still don't understand why they won't sign Flozell Adams to a one year deal, he's, IMO, a better option than Jonathan Scott. Oh well.

I just hope the team can end up 2-2 or 3-3 (depending on how big the suspension is) by the time Roethlisberger returns. That still leaves the team in a very good position to at least push for a wild card or something. But it's going to be tough.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 11:38 AM
It's going to be a very interesting start for the Steelers. Losing both Ben and Colon for significant amounts of time will definitely hurt the team. I still don't understand why they won't sign Flozell Adams to a one year deal, he's, IMO, a better option than Jonathan Scott. Oh well.

I just hope the team can end up 2-2 or 3-3 (depending on how big the suspension is) by the time Roethlisberger returns. That still leaves the team in a very good position to at least push for a wild card or something. But it's going to be tough.

Maybe in the Scott case they think since we aren't suppose to win without Ben, give the guy some experience for the future instead of a stop gap who might not even do well?

Mr. Goosemahn
07-19-2010, 12:01 PM
Maybe in the Scott case they think since we aren't suppose to win without Ben, give the guy some experience for the future instead of a stop gap who might not even do well?

I'd have no problem with giving a guy experience, but this is a 27 year old journeyman who's had unsuccessful stops in multiple teams, including the Bills and their injury-prone mess of a line last year.

Our new O-line coach, who was the Oline coach with Buffalo last year, probably feels comfortable with him or something and brought him along.

I'd rather Ramon Foster or maybe even Chris Scott get experience, but Scott got injured and Foster is the #1 backup guard we have.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 12:09 PM
I'd have no problem with giving a guy experience, but this is a 27 year old journeyman who's had unsuccessful stops in multiple teams, including the Bills and their injury-prone mess of a line last year.

Our new O-line coach, who was the Oline coach with Buffalo last year, probably feels comfortable with him or something and brought him along.

I'd rather Ramon Foster or maybe even Chris Scott get experience, but Scott got injured and Foster is the #1 backup guard we have.

My bad I was thinking of Chris Scott

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Im sorry I have to spell it out. 2 of our top 3 corners, 2 OLB's, Reggie, two WR's, and couple of backups were out of the Bucs game. Overall our top 3 corners, 2 OLB's, top 3 RB's, couple OL, Ellis, Brees, Shockey, Two of the top 4 wr's, all missed a complete game in the last 4 games, some missed more then one.

And all we needed was the Vikes to lose one game to seal up HFA, and they were talking about resting Favre the last game, so Payton knew they would lose atleast one.

Reggie Bush 6 receptions and 2 rushes in the bucs game. I wonder how he did that not playing he is more impressive than i thought.

Brent
07-19-2010, 12:46 PM
I don't know why it's so hard to fathom to people that they are a legit team or will be much better.
When you're so used to your team failing, it's hard to imagine them not letting you down.

A trend with these preseason lists yearly:
- 49ers, Lions, Texans being overrated.
When you have a good defense, a very underrated RB, and are really one piece (QB) away from putting together an offense that can do enough to keep you in games, it's easy to see why.

Sniper
07-19-2010, 12:56 PM
When you're so used to your team failing, it's hard to imagine them not letting you down.

That's what's so great about the Eagles. They find new ways to **** with me every year. I could see them starting out 7-0 and losing their last nine. You know, just to mess with me.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 01:12 PM
Reggie Bush 6 receptions and 2 rushes in the bucs game. I wonder how he did that not playing he is more impressive than i thought.

He's such an ineffective player, that he might as well not play.

Oh wait, I forgot the Saints are paying him such a stupid salary to be the league's best decoy. My bad.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 04:10 PM
Reggie Bush 6 receptions and 2 rushes in the bucs game. I wonder how he did that not playing he is more impressive than i thought.

Wow, I add one person to the wrong list. Now this just shows your grasping straws to find a arguement. It went from your beloved Colts not being #1 to AFC, to the NFC South curse, to the Saints struggling (which you never argued about, just the sitting starters part, which is true) and all you manage to find is I put a player on the wrong list. Congratulations, you finally did win a part of the arguement.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 04:18 PM
Wow, I add one person to the wrong list. Now this just shows your grasping straws to find a arguement. It went from your beloved Colts not being #1 to AFC, to the NFC South curse, to the Saints struggling (which you never argued about, just the sitting starters part, which is true) and all you manage to find is I put a player on the wrong list. Congratulations, you finally did win a part of the arguement.

Except your "they sat their starters" is a complete lie. Henderson, Colston, and Meachem all played in the losses to the cowboys and the buccaneers. They were not resting they just lost.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 05:03 PM
Except your "they sat their starters" is a complete lie. Henderson, Colston, and Meachem all played in the losses to the cowboys and the buccaneers. They were not resting they just lost.

Im sorry I have to spell it out. 2 of our top 3 corners, 2 OLB's, Reggie, two WR's, and couple of backups were out of the Bucs game. Overall our top 3 corners, 2 OLB's, top 3 RB's, couple OL, Ellis, Brees, Shockey, Two of the top 4 wr's, all missed a complete game in the last 4 games, some missed more then one.


http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/01/post_114.html

Thats for the last game, 21 players with little or no playing time is resting starters. And I said for the last 4 games, not just the losses to the Cowboys and Bucs. Bushrod got raped against Ware and for some reason the coaches didn't help him much. But both of our corners miss significant time because we didn't want to overplay them, Ellis, Shanle had a concussion, and couple others missed more time then just the last game. So again, I don't see how I am wrong, except putting Bush in the wrong column.

LizardState
07-19-2010, 05:15 PM
Jets too high, Ravens too low & the Vikings s/b a placeholder while they're circling the list for permission to land depending on when/if Favre decides to come back.

I realize it will be when, not if, but if he does retire it could be a real blessing in disguise for the Vikes, & Sage Rosenfels will get that chance to start he's been waiting on for like, forever! What's that you say, Vikings fans? yes they will go with Tavaris, but do you honestly think he will start going past October? Start Tavaris, Childress will get fired & their SB run evaporates. Kind of a big old risk they're taking with a 42-yr-old QB who had offseason surgery again.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 05:20 PM
Jets too high, Ravens too low & the Vikings s/b a placeholder while they're circling the list for permission to land depending on when/if Favre decides to come back.

I realize it will be when, not if, but if he does retire it could be a real blessing in disguise for the Vikes, & Sage Rosenfels will get that chance to start he's been waiting on for like, forever! What's that you say, Vikings fans? yes they will go with Tavaris, but do you honestly think he will start going past October? Start Tavaris, Childress will get fired & their SB run evaporates. Kind of a big old risk they're taking with a 42-yr-old QB who had offseason surgery again.

Its sad they traded a 4th to get Sage, then give him decent money to come here and be 3rd string QB. Not what they originally wanted, but he has been on the inactive list so either he is super pissed or happy to make money easily.

fenikz
07-19-2010, 05:48 PM
9ers have been the go to pick for 5 years now, until they actually do something I don't care

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 06:46 PM
9ers have been the go to pick for 5 years now, until they actually do something I don't care

How is that? Smith never showed anything at QB to warrant them being worth a damn. The go to pick has been the texans and cardinals.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 06:48 PM
9ers have been the go to pick for 5 years now, until they actually do something I don't care

Says the Cardinals fan.

fenikz
07-19-2010, 07:04 PM
now sir, you guys haven't made the playoffs since the late 90s? it's annoying that every year all espn does is claim you are back in power

Brent
07-19-2010, 07:18 PM
now sir, you guys haven't made the playoffs since the late 90s? it's annoying that every year all espn does is claim you are back in power
he is a jags fan, you are confusing him with YAY

also, you are referring to ESPN, let's remember that they suck

Jakey
07-19-2010, 07:22 PM
I dont know about the rest of the league, but the Steelers are a hard one to figure out...the defense will be gooood, but the offense is a total mystery atm, so with that in mind, id put them anywhere between the 10 to 20 range.

fenikz
07-19-2010, 09:29 PM
he is a jags fan, you are confusing him with YAY

also, you are referring to ESPN, let's remember that they suck

its all a cover he just doesnt want to be associated with the 49ers publicly

SaintsMan
07-19-2010, 09:49 PM
13 New Orleans Saints


Someone is still bitter.

losing 2 of your 4 starters on the DL and the best guy in the Superbowl, LT, and still having a weak LB core isn't acutally getting better.

One starter is gone from the starting Super Bowl line and he is a career backup and the weak link of that starting unit. McCray isnt that good but he could lay some shots, though. Both Bobby McCray and our starting DE before injury, Charles Grant were both cut so I don't see how they are big loses with the addition of Alex Brown and Jimmy Wilkerson.

And Grant has a been a disappointment for the past few seasons and other NFL teams seem to think the same as he will be playing for the UFL this year.

Who the hell is this LT that was so huge in the SB?

Ness
07-19-2010, 09:56 PM
man, the 49ers are getting overrated at this point. QB play is kind of a big deal.

Kind of obnoxious how that is the only thing keeping us out of the postseason.

PoopSandwich
07-19-2010, 10:15 PM
I hate you.