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dannyz
07-19-2010, 12:38 AM
Who are Future Hall OF Famers Playing right now in the NFL? Who are player that if they Retire right now they would get in First Ballot? Who needs to do a little more?
The First Ballot right now are Favre,LT,Moss.Manning,Brady,Baliey Who else?

Job
07-19-2010, 12:44 AM
Bobby Carpenter.

Gay Ork Wang
07-19-2010, 12:55 AM
Jordy Nelson is a Zero time ballot HoF

falloutboy14
07-19-2010, 12:59 AM
In now:
Ray Lewis
Ed Reed
Pace - Is he still playing? Odgen too, but I think both are retired
Tony Gonzalez
Randy Moss


Near in/need a little more
Brees
Seymour
Kevin/Pat Williams
Jason Taylor - not first ballot, but has a good shot.
Steven Jackson - probably needs more then most people on this list, but the guys a tank.

I'm hesitent to put WRs in, since if Chris Carter has to wait, no one other then JR is first ballot. I'm not convinced TO is on pace for the hall of fame. Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne & 85 are all 5 years after TO and of those I think Wayne has the best chance (biased of course).

dannyz
07-19-2010, 01:47 AM
Yeah. When you look at Steven Jackson he has put up Huge Numbers on a team that has been bad ever since he was Drafted There. Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald both have a ways to go but if they play like they have for Five More Years they should be in.

CC.SD
07-19-2010, 02:03 AM
In now:
Ray Lewis
Ed Reed
Pace - Is he still playing? Odgen too, but I think both are retired
Tony Gonzalez
Randy Moss


Near in/need a little more
Brees
Seymour
Kevin/Pat Williams
Jason Taylor - not first ballot, but has a good shot.
Steven Jackson - probably needs more then most people on this list, but the guys a tank.

I'm hesitent to put WRs in, since if Chris Carter has to wait, no one other then JR is first ballot. I'm not convinced TO is on pace for the hall of fame. Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne & 85 are all 5 years after TO and of those I think Wayne has the best chance (biased of course).

LT LT STAB STAB

FUNBUNCHER
07-19-2010, 02:24 AM
Not many 1st ballot HOFers playing if they retired tomorrow, but there are several guys who are near locks for the HOF in the future.

Ray Lewis, Ladanian Tomlinson - (outside chance at 1st ballot), Ed Reed, Favre, Pace, (outside chance at 1st time selection), Randy Moss, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Junior Seau, Bill Belichick, Tony Gonzalez.

tjsunstein
07-19-2010, 07:43 AM
Where does Ty Law stand? Darren Sharper? Charles Woodson?

tenorx
07-19-2010, 08:07 AM
Troy Polamalu is pretty colse aswell I think, he might need 1-2 more good seasons.

AntoinCD
07-19-2010, 08:12 AM
Troy Polamalu is pretty colse aswell I think, he might need 1-2 more good seasons.

Yeah but safety is a ***** of a position to get into the Hall playing. As far as safeties go, no safety(Ed Reed included) has to be gameplanned against as much as Polamalu. But I just think he will struggle to get in, although two rings helps.

tenorx
07-19-2010, 08:25 AM
Yes, but I think people can realise that Troy is the most important part of the 2-time Super Bowl champion Steelers team. If not, just need to take a look at this:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5089/troyv.jpg

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 08:41 AM
LaDainian Tomlinson
Ray Lewis
Ed Reed
Orlando Pace
Walter Jones
Torry Holt
Isaac Bruce
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
Kurt Warner
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Marvin Harrison
Tony Gonzalez
Charles Woodson
Champ Bailey


And I think Alan Faneca/Steve Hutchinson, Kevin Mawae, and Jason Taylor have a shot

AntoinCD
07-19-2010, 08:54 AM
Locks:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Brett Favre
Ray Lewis
Tony Gonzalez
Randy Moss

Almost Definites:

Ladanian Tomlinson
Ed Reed
Champ Bailey
Terrell Owens
Steve Hutchinson
Jason Taylor

Good Chance:

Charles Woodson
Kevin Williams
Kevin Mawae
Ben Roethlisberger
Drew Brees

With a Few More Years:

Jared Allen
Demarcus Ware
Reggie Wayne
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald


Note-I didn't include players like Chris Johnon, AD, Revis etc because it is too early for them to be included. I will have undoubtedly forgotten some players but those are the main ones I can think of.

FUNBUNCHER
07-19-2010, 09:34 AM
People are forgetting the original question; how many players would be 1ST BALLOT HOFers if they retired tomorrow?

Not who would be a HOFer in time.

On AntoinCD's list, the only 1st ballot guys IMO are Brady, Manning, Favre, Lewis, Gonzalez, Moss and Ed Reed.

Also, I would not be surprised if Troy Polamalu got in 1st ballot, the respect level he has around the league among players and coaches is extremely high.

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 09:48 AM
Also, I would not be surprised if Troy Polamalu got in 1st ballot, the respect level he has around the league among players and coaches is extremely high.
He's not a lock for the Hall of Fame, but now he's a 1st ballot Hall of Famer?

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 10:12 AM
I would say Darren Sharper is close to being a lock for first ballot HOF. 63 INT's so if he just gets 3 this year he will have sole possession of Top 5 ever. Least amount of games he played in a 13 year career is 13, I think got a ring with GB and now has one with the Saints, so he has statistics, longevity, and championships. What would he be missing?

Job
07-19-2010, 10:14 AM
I would say Darren Sharper is close to being a lock for first ballot HOF. 63 INT's so if he just gets 3 this year he will have sole possession of Top 5 ever.

You mean he's gonna be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th AND 5th?

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 10:23 AM
Where does Ty Law stand? Darren Sharper? Charles Woodson?

Law should be a lock to get in. Considered (one of) the best at his position for an extended time, played on four Superbowl teams, won three (although was injured for the last one) and consistently made big plays in the postseason. He became a lock after making Peyton Manning his whipping boy.

Sharper, I'm not sure. He's got the statistical dominance, won a Superbowl. Safety is a tough spot to get in, but he's got every argument in his favor. I'd put him in before, say, Brian Dawkins.

Woodson is tough w/o a ring. He's had a great revival in GB, and a ring would probably put him over the edge.

None of them are first balloters, though.

Splat
07-19-2010, 10:25 AM
I could see Sharper getting in but first ballot not so much.

Job
07-19-2010, 10:31 AM
I'd put him in before, say, Brian Dawkins.

That's blasphemy.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 10:36 AM
That's blasphemy.

Not really, but I don't have the hard-on for Dawkins like most do. Wonderful player? Absolutely. Hall of Famer? Eh..It's almost impossible for safeties to get in without hardware.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 10:43 AM
You mean he's gonna be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th AND 5th?

Your mean :(

Mr. Goosemahn
07-19-2010, 10:50 AM
I'll just talk Steelers for now.

Ben Roethlisberger might make it, though it all depends what he does from now on. The two Superbowls definitely work in his favor, but not the off-season incidents and the suspension.

Hines Ward should make it, even if it's not first ballot. He revolutionized WR blocking, for better or worse, and has been incredibly consistent for a very long time. Already holds multiple records and (statistically) is probably the best WR in team history.

LaMarr Woodley could be a HOF in the making. I know he's young and whatnot, but he's definitely on the right track. 37 career sacks in three seasons, 31 in the past two years (when he's started). If he keeps this 15 sack average for at least 5 more years, he'll get more than 100 sacks in his career.

Aaron Smith is a guy who I'd like to see get in, but there's probably no real way of him making it. 3-4 DE's get virtually no stats in comparison to 4-3 ends, and while he's been the key to our DLine for a while now, and his value to the defense is extremely underrated, he won't make it.

Troy Polamalu should make it, he's a game changer and the most dangerous player on the field for us. He's the glue that holds the entire defense together and he ranks up there with the greatest DB's the team's ever had.

And that's about it.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 10:52 AM
Hines Ward should not be allowed within 10 miles of the Hall of Fame.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 11:06 AM
Locks:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Brett Favre
Ray Lewis
Tony Gonzalez
Randy Moss

Almost Definites:

Ladanian Tomlinson
Ed Reed
Champ Bailey
Terrell Owens
Steve Hutchinson
Jason Taylor

Good Chance:

Charles Woodson
Kevin Williams
Kevin Mawae
Ben Roethlisberger
Drew Brees

With a Few More Years:

Jared Allen
Demarcus Ware
Reggie Wayne
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald


Note-I didn't include players like Chris Johnon, AD, Revis etc because it is too early for them to be included. I will have undoubtedly forgotten some players but those are the main ones I can think of.

How does Moss get in but not LDT?

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 11:10 AM
Hines Ward is not a Hall of Famer. The idea that he revolutionized wide receiver blocking is ridiculous and the fact anyone is mentioning the concept of someone revolutioning wide receiver blocking just shows how much he has no business being in the Hall of Fame. While we're at it, Ward should get in because he revolutionized smiling during the game.

Troy Polamalu is a great player, but do people realize how pedestrian his career statistics are? He has 20 INTs and 7 sacks in 8 seasons and 7 of those INTs were in 2008. To compare, Darren Sharper has had 3 seasons in which he had 9 INTs and has 7.5 sacks in his career. Adrian Wilson has 20.5 sacks and 23 INTs in 10 seasons. Is he a Hall of Famer too?

I understand that Lynn Swann established the precedent that unremarkable Steelers get into the Hall of Fame, but this is getting ridiculous

tjsunstein
07-19-2010, 11:11 AM
How does Moss get in but not LDT?
Longevity of dominance. LDT will never run for 1,000 yards again meanwhile Moss could still catch 85-100 balls and go for 1,000

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 11:11 AM
How does Moss get in but not LDT?
because people are looking at how worn down he is now instead of remembering the career he's had. He's in the second he's eligible.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 11:13 AM
because people are looking at how worn down he is now instead of remembering the career he's had. He's in the second he's eligible.

If that is the case the moss oakland years should count against him. I think Tomlinson was more dominant through his career.

prock
07-19-2010, 11:19 AM
Randy Moss was probably the most dominant receiver since Rice.

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 11:21 AM
Randy Moss was probably the most dominant receiver since Rice.

and Tomlinson's the most dominant running back since Smith/Sanders. They are both 1st ballot Hall of Famers

prock
07-19-2010, 11:24 AM
and Tomlinson's the most dominant running back since Smith/Sanders. They are both 1st ballot Hall of Famers

Most likely, yes.

Splat
07-19-2010, 11:33 AM
Longevity of dominance. LDT will never run for 1,000 yards again meanwhile Moss could still catch 85-100 balls and go for 1,000

If we are just talking stats LT only had one down year this last season and he still had 12 TD's.

A WR still playing at a high level after 30 and a running back declining is nothing new it's pretty much the norm.

K Train
07-19-2010, 11:40 AM
hines ward wont sniff the hall of fame...just cause he throws a nice block every now and then isnt enough, the WRs of this era (andre, fitz, moss, TO...ect) have the #s to put wards to shame.

dannyz
07-19-2010, 02:27 PM
Look at Chris Carter and Andre Reed they should be in but they are not. You have to be the Best WR in the NFL For atleast a couple of Years and I don't think Ward was that with Fitz,Andre,Moss,T.O. Will he get in? Maybe but it will take a long time.

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 02:31 PM
Look at Chris Carter and Andre Reed they should be in but they are not. You have to be the Best WR in the NFL For atleast a couple of Years and I don't think Ward was that with Fitz,Andre,Moss,T.O. Will he get in? Maybe but it will take a long time.
Cris Carter not being in already is a crime against football. He should have been a 1st ballot guy.

Andre Reed? Meh. He will get in eventually.

Bengals78
07-19-2010, 02:45 PM
lock
http://prod.static.bengals.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/CIN/photos/roster/2009/coats_daniel.jpg

prock
07-19-2010, 02:48 PM
wait, what? ed mccaffrey was 20 times the blocker ward is, and he was doing it while ward was still playing qb. and that was without more than .05 seconds of serious thought.

But remember that one time he blind sided Keith Rivers? Revolutionary, if you ask me.

ThePudge
07-19-2010, 02:59 PM
The day Hines Ward becomes a Hall of Famer is the day I become a murderer.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 03:06 PM
The day Hines Ward becomes a Hall of Famer is the day I become a murderer.

How could you hate a face like this...
http://thepigskindoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/December09/hines1.jpg


j/k

Ravens1991
07-19-2010, 03:06 PM
Marvin Harrison
TO
Randy Moss
Torry Holt
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Ocho Cinco
Reggie Wayne

all are better then Ward and all were in his generation. Ward blindsided a few players and someone on ESPN called him tough is not revolutionizing WR blocking.





Now do you all think Chad Ocho Cinco will get in?

Mr. Goosemahn
07-19-2010, 03:07 PM
Lol, yeah, I might have jumped the gun on Ward.

But his block on Rivers was semi-revolutionary. It led to the Hines Ward rule.

Bengals78
07-19-2010, 03:24 PM
Marvin Harrison
TO
Randy Moss
Torry Holt
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Ocho Cinco
Reggie Wayne

all are better then Ward and all were in his generation. Ward blindsided a few players and someone on ESPN called him tough is not revolutionizing WR blocking.





Now do you all think Chad Ocho Cinco will get in?

They will build him a wing. And by they I mean he will buy an adjacent lot and build it

Splat
07-19-2010, 04:15 PM
I could see 85 getting in but after he does some waiting.

Bengals78
07-19-2010, 04:27 PM
He needs a few more big years. One super big year and I think he gets it MAYBE first ballot.

He was our passing attack last season. A poor passing game and he still had over 1000 yards. Not easy facing double teams all season because we had no one else to cover lol

GB12
07-19-2010, 04:50 PM
He needs a few more big years. One super big year and I think he gets it MAYBE first ballot.

He was our passing attack last season. A poor passing game and he still had over 1000 yards. Not easy facing double teams all season because we had no one else to cover lol

No way. He has no chance what so ever at being first ballot. Right now he's solidly out. A couple more good years and he might be borderline.

GB12
07-19-2010, 05:03 PM
that's being generous. i'd feel pretty comfortable saying that there is absolutely zero chance (period, end of discussion) that chad johnson/ocho cinco is ever even a finalist. let alone inducted.

Yeah, that's probably more accurate. I was trying to be nice and not crush Bengals78's dreams completely, but you're right.

dannyz
07-19-2010, 05:08 PM
What about Sean Taylor? Now don't burn me but think about it he was on his way to be the Best Safety up there with Reed and Polamalu but he was Murderd. What about HIM?

Philliez01
07-19-2010, 05:11 PM
I have a question.

With the Tight End a bit different than it was a decade ago, how will voters vote on that position? It's no longer just a blocking position with the occasional catch.

How does someone like Dallas Clark (not him exactly, but a player like him) who is more of a slot WR get voted on compared to more complete TEs?

Job
07-19-2010, 05:15 PM
What about Sean Taylor? Now don't burn me but think about it he was on his way to be the Best Safety up there with Reed and Polamalu but he was Murderd. What about HIM?

No.

10 char

GB12
07-19-2010, 05:16 PM
What about Sean Taylor? Now don't burn me but think about it he was on his way to be the Best Safety up there with Reed and Polamalu but he was Murderd. What about HIM?

Really? He was in the NFL for just four years. It's absolutely ridiculous to even mention his name in this discussion. It's unfortunate he was killed, but four years doesn't make a Hall of Famer no matter what the circumstances.

ThePudge
07-19-2010, 05:21 PM
If he wins a Super Bowl in the next two years (the Bengals window from what I see) then I see no reason why he couldn't squeeze in or simply if he plays four to five more years. He's far and away the best receiver in franchise history.

Current: 684 rec. 9952 yds 14.5 avg 62 Tds....

Let's say his productive career goes two more seasons..

80 rec 1150 yds 8 Td
75 rec 1050 yds 7 Td
155 rec 2200 15 Td
+ 684 - 9952 - 62 Td
839 rec - 12052 yds - 77 Td

And let's assume he kind of wastes away for two seasons after that...

50 rec 650 yds 4 Td
40 rec 550 yds 3 Td
90 rec 1200 yds 7 Td
839 rec 12052 yds 77 Td
929 rec 13252 yds 84 Td let's say that the end of his career

With those numbers, only 4 seasons more (which should be manageable), he would rank 10th* in NFL history for receptions, 14th* in receiving Tds, and 11th* in receiving yards.

I added the * to account for the fact that Randy Moss, Tory Holt, and others are still compiling numbers. Some may see that four year idea as optimistic and surely some could see it as pessimistic, either way it's a bunch of "what if's" which isn't typically the conversation I like to have. Still, Chad's a strong player to this day who may be more productive this year than last with a more complete cast around him. Maybe he was never the best receiver in the league, nor was he ever the most spectacular or physically imposing, but for years Chad's been productive, he's put together a tremendous career resume, and he may very well be a Hall of Fame player. He's not a first ballot HoFer but he's surely left his print on the game (as evidenced by celebration sanctions) while compiling terrific career numbers. He'll likely finish among the top 15 receivers all time in yards and receptions, while shattering franchise records, so.. what the hell... by the end of his career I think we could be looking at a 75% he makes the Hall.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 05:51 PM
I have a question.

With the Tight End a bit different than it was a decade ago, how will voters vote on that position? It's no longer just a blocking position with the occasional catch.

How does someone like Dallas Clark (not him exactly, but a player like him) who is more of a slot WR get voted on compared to more complete TEs?

Kellen Winslow Sr., Shannon Sharpe, and Tony Gonzales have pretty much set the benchmark for the "WR who lines up next to the tackle" position.

Shiver
07-19-2010, 06:39 PM
I don't think Marvin Harrison will make it in, especially with the way his career ended. Of the wide receivers I think that will make it in, there should only be two: Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

yourfavestoner
07-19-2010, 06:44 PM
I don't think Marvin Harrison will make it in, especially with the way his career ended. Of the wide receivers I think that will make it in, there should only be two: Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

I endorse this message 395482038509329085 times.

Manning and Harrison's are the "Mr. Septembers" of football. I don't think there has been a WR as consistently terrible in the playoffs than Marvin Harrison.

People always ***** about rings affecting perception, especially in a sport as team-oriented as football. It's not the rings, necessarily, that are so important as much as your performance in postseason games. It's why Lynn Swann is in the HoF. Great team or not, that man made the Superbowl his *****. He's one of the best "big game" WRs in history.

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 06:52 PM
Kellen Winslow Sr., Shannon Sharpe, and Tony Gonzales have pretty much set the benchmark for the "WR who lines up next to the tackle" position.

I don't know abotu Winslow Sr or Sharpe, some of the older guys can probably tell me on that, but Tony was also a very willing and good blocker. Its good to see nowadays the TE's like Witten and Miller who can do both block and catch and do it well. Does that factor in you think?

Splat
07-19-2010, 07:27 PM
I think being an all around player at any position helps a great deal see Derrick Thomas, had he been better vs the run he would have been first ballot.

bored of education
07-19-2010, 08:12 PM
**** yes i love what if games

Jared Allen is 27 with 72 career sacks. Lets says he plays 7 more seasons (I am trying to be realistic):
1. 16
2. 14
3. 14
4. 11
5. 10
6. 8
7. 6

that gives him 151 career sacks. he is actually a bit underrated against the run, he is not putrid against the run. He is a fumble forcing machine and gets a few safeties thanks Dan O.

that would get him in in like umm 4-5 tries i think

Sniper
07-19-2010, 08:14 PM
I endorse this message 395482038509329085 times.

Manning and Harrison's are the "Mr. Septembers" of football. I don't think there has been a WR as consistently terrible in the playoffs than Marvin Harrison.

I love you.

Sniper
07-19-2010, 08:16 PM
I think Tomlinson was more dominant through his career.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/21733/755776-lol_que_large.jpg

You are a gold mine for stupid quotes.

Splat
07-19-2010, 08:16 PM
**** yes i love what if games

Jared Allen is 27 with 72 career sacks. Lets says he plays 7 more seasons (I am trying to be realistic):
1. 16
2. 14
3. 14
4. 11
5. 10
6. 8
7. 6

that gives him 151 career sacks. he is actually a bit underrated against the run, he is not putrid against the run. He is a fumble forcing machine and gets a few safeties thanks Dan O.

that would get him in in like umm 4-5 tries i think

He also has caught two passes for two TD's... :)

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 08:19 PM
I endorse this message 395482038509329085 times.

Manning and Harrison's are the "Mr. Septembers" of football. I don't think there has been a WR as consistently terrible in the playoffs than Marvin Harrison.

People always ***** about rings affecting perception, especially in a sport as team-oriented as football. It's not the rings, necessarily, that are so important as much as your performance in postseason games. It's why Lynn Swann is in the HoF. Great team or not, that man made the Superbowl his *****. He's one of the best "big game" WRs in history.
Lynn Swann had 1 big game - Super Bowl X. That hardly makes him one of the best big game wide receivers in history. Otherwise, I guess I can say that Timmie Smith is one of the greatest big game running backs of all time, because he destroyed the Broncos in the Superbowl and did virtually nothing else in his career. Swann's in the Hall of Fame because he was THE media darling and he shouldn't be in Canton.

As for Marvin Harrison... he is a first ballot hall of famer. If not, they should just stop doing the Hall of Fame.

1,102 career receptions for 14,580 yards and 128 TDs from a 6' 185lb wide receiver. It's not like he was a giant or insanely fast like some guys... he was just very, very good at what he did. 8 straight 1,000+ yard seasons and 4 straight with 1,400+ yards and at least 100 catches.

As for his alleged character issues... Lawrence Taylor is one of the all time pieces of **** and he's a Hall of Famer and no one would ever think of not including him in it. Ray Lewis may or may not have been a major player in a double murder. He's a no doubt, 1st ballot Hall of Famer.

Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison should all end up in Canton

Job
07-19-2010, 08:21 PM
T.O. and Randy Moss are heads and shoulders and probably hips and knees above the three others.

Sniper
07-19-2010, 08:22 PM
he was just very, very good at what he did.

Ducking out of bounds so no one would even breathe on him? Cry like a little ***** whenever a CB pushed him around? Not produce in the playoffs?

You're right. The man is unparalled in those fields.

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 08:23 PM
Ducking out of bounds so no one would even breathe on him? Cry like a little ***** whenever a CB pushed him around? Not produce in the playoffs?

You're right. The man is unparalled in those fields.

Hall of Fame *****

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 08:24 PM
T.O. and Randy Moss are heads and shoulders and probably hips and knees above the three others.

unless of course you factor in statistics and... team success

Harrison, Bruce and Holt have crazy stats and a ring.

Splat
07-19-2010, 08:25 PM
I really don't have a problem with a WR stepping out of bounds, I would rather have him healthy then take a unnecessary hit.

Sniper
07-19-2010, 08:30 PM
unless of course you factor in statistics and... team success

Harrison, Bruce and Holt have crazy stats and a ring.

Wide receivers cannot be judged head-to-head on rings. That's absurd.

Marvin Harrison is a piece of **** and an enormous *****. You'll excuse me if I don't give him all the credit for his stalwart 5-59 performance in the Super Bowl. Owens' 9-122 game in a loss on a broken leg carries more weight.

Splat
07-19-2010, 08:32 PM
Wide receivers cannot be judged head-to-head on rings. That's absurd.

Marvin Harrison is a piece of **** and an enormous *****. You'll excuse me if I don't give him all the credit for his stalwart 5-59 performance in the Super Bowl. Owens' 9-122 game in a loss on a broken leg carries more weight.

But you can judge him off of one game?

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Wide receivers cannot be judged head-to-head on rings. That's absurd.

Marvin Harrison is a piece of **** and an enormous *****. You'll excuse me if I don't give him all the credit for his stalwart 5-59 performance in the Super Bowl. Owens' 9-122 game in a loss on a broken leg carries more weight.

I don't like Harrison either. I've heard stories that paint him as a giant piece of ****, but his accomplishments in the NFL are undeniable

Bengals78
07-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Allen will be the first man inducted into every hall of fame...ever

Sniper
07-19-2010, 08:35 PM
But you can judge him off of one game?

No. I'm just saying that the rings argument for a receiver is absurd and that it certainly wasn't Owens' fault that the Eagles lost to the Patriots. Judging a wide receiver, i.e a player who touches the ball 4-8 times per game, on rings is ******* moronic.

Devery Henderson > Randy Moss and Terrell Owens. Hey, he won a Super Bowl, right?

wonderbredd24
07-19-2010, 08:37 PM
No. I'm just saying that the rings argument for a receiver is absurd and that it certainly wasn't Owens' fault that the Eagles lost to the Patriots. Judging a wide receiver, i.e a player who touches the ball 4-8 times per game, on rings is ******* moronic.

Devery Henderson > Randy Moss and Terrell Owens. Hey, he won a Super Bowl, right?
Because that's what I said and Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino too.

Statistically, those guys are competitive with Moss and Owens AND have a ring.

bored of education
07-19-2010, 08:39 PM
Because that's what I said and Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino too.

Statistically, those guys are competitive with Moss and Owens AND have a ring.

umm wait a seconddd

Sniper
07-19-2010, 08:39 PM
Because that's what I said and Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino too.

Statistically, those guys are competitive with Moss and Owens AND have a ring.

But they're still not better players, so...

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 08:42 PM
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/21733/755776-lol_que_large.jpg

You are a gold mine for stupid quotes.

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/poker-from-the-rail/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/loser.jpg

You fail to ever back up any of your claims. Typical sniper post is "well that is just dumb cause i say so, here are my facts oh wait i dont have any". You fail to deliver

bored of education
07-19-2010, 08:42 PM
Owens got a ring? am i missing something? a year? Owens has ring?

Splat
07-19-2010, 08:46 PM
The lack of kickers in this thread is sad, Jan Stenerud is lonely.

Bengals78
07-19-2010, 08:50 PM
adam vinatieri is the one I can think of.

Sniper
07-19-2010, 09:02 PM
You fail to ever back up any of your claims.

Wait, what?

Typical sniper post is "well that is just dumb cause i say so, here are my facts oh wait i dont have any". You fail to deliver

Christ, grammar won't kill you. Give it a whirl. You want facts? Here are some facts for you.

In his rookie season, Moss averaged 19.0 (!!!) yards per catch and scored 17 touchdowns. Yes, rookie. As in first year in the pros. 1,313 yards and 17 touchdowns. He has nine double-digit touchdown seasons. He holds the NFL record for most touchdown receptions in one season. He altered the way defenses schemed. Period. Moss would routinely get triple-covered and still come down with the catch. His combination of size, speed, agility, leaping ability, and ability to make the circus-catch have not been and will never be duplicated. He is the most skilled receiver in history.

Also, I have no idea what the **** was going on in your rep comment. Was "What's that all abut, eh?" supposed to funny? Creative? A dig at the fact that I'm Canadian? Was there a point to it? Did you think that it'd be awesome to say a stereotypical line that no Canadian actually uses? I'm not sure.

Hurricanes25
07-19-2010, 09:03 PM
adam vinatieri is the one I can think of.

How about Jason Elam?

zachsaints52
07-19-2010, 09:04 PM
adam vinatieri is the only one.

Pretty much sums it up.

Splat
07-19-2010, 09:06 PM
How about Jason Elam?

I would vote for him if a I had a vote and I'm a Chiefs fan so that should tell you how I feel about him, he has crushed many of my dreams.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-19-2010, 09:15 PM
Wait, what?



Christ, grammar won't kill you. Give it a whirl. You want facts? Here are some facts for you.

In his rookie season, Moss averaged 19.0 (!!!) yards per catch and scored 17 touchdowns. Yes, rookie. As in first year in the pros. 1,313 yards and 17 touchdowns. He has nine double-digit touchdown seasons. He holds the NFL record for most touchdown receptions in one season. He altered the way defenses schemed. Period. Moss would routinely get triple-covered and still come down with the catch. His combination of size, speed, agility, leaping ability, and ability to make the circus-catch have not been and will never be duplicated. He is the most skilled receiver in history.

Also, I have no idea what the **** was going on in your rep comment. Was "What's that all abut, eh?" supposed to funny? Creative? A dig at the fact that I'm Canadian? Was there a point to it? Did you think that it'd be awesome to say a stereotypical line that no Canadian actually uses? I'm not sure.

- LDT has the single season TD record for a running back
-9 consecutive double digit TD's
-4th most yards from scrimmage in a season
- 8th in rushing
- 2nd most rushing TD's

Tomlinson was undoubtedly the best runningback of his generation. Moss is very debatable.

Michigan
07-19-2010, 09:26 PM
Jason Hanson is the great Lions hope. Then Jeff Backus.

Shiver
07-19-2010, 09:28 PM
Tomlinson vs. Moss....


Tough call, but I would go with Tomlinson. He was the most dynamic offensive weapon in the game until his legs gave out last year. A great RB is always a bigger impact player than even the best WR; also Moss's mercurial behavior has to factor in.

Sniper
07-19-2010, 09:30 PM
Tomlinson was undoubtedly the best runningback of his generation.

Moss is still abusing defenses. LDT averaged 3.3 yards per carry last year and has been on a steady decline since his record-breaking '06 season. Tomlinson wasn't also "undoubtedly" the best RB of his generation. His generation includes the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, Shaun Alexander, Curtis Martin, Clinton Portis, Corey Dillon in his prime, Edge James, and others. Undoubtedly, my ass.

Sniper
07-19-2010, 09:32 PM
Tomlinson vs. Moss....


Tough call, but I would go with Tomlinson. He was the most dynamic offensive weapon in the game until his legs gave out last year. A great RB is always a bigger impact player than even the best WR; also Moss's mercurial behavior has to factor in.

If Moss' mercurial behavior is to be factored in, Tomlinson's injury history, poor playoff performances, and his acting like a little ***** after losses should also be factored in.

Ravens1991
07-19-2010, 09:35 PM
Moss is still abusing defenses. LDT averaged 3.3 yards per carry last year and has been on a steady decline since his record-breaking '06 season. Tomlinson wasn't also "undoubtedly" the best RB of his generation. His generation includes the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, Shaun Alexander, Curtis Martin, Clinton Portis, Corey Dillon in his prime, Edge James, and others. Undoubtedly, my ass.


Tomlinson was better then everyone on that list, except Peterson and Johnson because we dont know how good they will be. Tomlinson will get in

Sniper
07-19-2010, 09:37 PM
Tomlinson was better then everyone on that list, except Peterson and Johnson because we dont know how good they will be. Tomlinson will get in

I'm not saying that he won't get in, but he's not miles ahead of everyone else.

BlindSite
07-19-2010, 09:52 PM
Early day predictions if production continues for some RBS:

Peterson: 3,385 carries for 15,715 yards 140 TDs

CJ2k: 3,045 carries for 16,170 yards 115 TDs

Williams: 2,710 carries for 14,378 yards 130 TDs

**Note these are based as 10 years production, assuming no decline (though, there's always a decline.)

I know this is ******** speculation and none of these guys have a likely shot of making this kind of production in their careers, but it's fun and it's not impossible.

Another fun fact, CJ and Williams are the only current backs (with actual resume's) in the NFL to have career YPC higher than Barry Sanders, CJ interestingly enough has 145 carries less than Williams in this span.

LT2 is a lock for the HOF, Moss, p. manning, brady are likely to get in too, Big Ben will be hard to keep out if he earns another ring too imo.

Ray Lewis is a lock too. Mawae is a maybe.

Brees needs to do a little more, or really just needs to continue.

Favre is a lock

Champ Bailey may be hard to lock down, since he has a lack of raw stats.

Jared Allen might have half a chance if he produces the same way for another 4 years or so. He'd have over 120 sacks total.

falloutboy14
07-19-2010, 11:24 PM
I'm kind of surprised people have Marvin not making the hall of fame.

Harrison 13 seasons:
1102 catches 14850 yards 128 TDs

Owens 14 seasons:
1006 catches 14951 yards 144 TDs

Moss 12 seasons
926 catches 14465 yards 148 TDs

All of them are on-par imo, except one of them has a ring.

By the way, what have Owens & Moss done in the playoffs?
Has Owens won a playoff game since '03?
In the Patriots super bowl run, Moss had 7 catches under 100 yards & 0 TDs in 3 games.
Marvin has been shut down, but he also played against the Broncos in the playoffs too.


PS: what do people think of Dwight Freeney in the hall of fame?
Freeney 8 seasons 84 sacks 36 forced fumbles
Allen 6 seasons 72 sacks 21 forced fumbles
Allen has 1.5 more sacks per season, Freeny has 1 more forced fumble.

BlindSite
07-19-2010, 11:29 PM
I'm kind of surprised people have Marvin not making the hall of fame.

Harrison 13 seasons:
1102 catches 14850 yards 128 TDs

Owens 14 seasons:
1006 catches 14951 yards 144 TDs

Moss 12 seasons
926 catches 14465 yards 148 TDs

All of them are on-par imo, except one of them has a ring.

By the way, what have Owens & Moss done in the playoffs?
Has Owens won a playoff game since '03?
In the Patriots super bowl run, Moss had 7 catches under 100 yards & 0 TDs in 3 games.
Marvin has been shut down, but he also played against the Broncos in the playoffs too.


PS: what do people think of Dwight Freeney in the hall of fame?
Freeney 8 seasons 84 sacks 36 forced fumbles
Allen 6 seasons 72 sacks 21 forced fumbles
Allen has 1.5 more sacks per season, Freeny has 1 more forced fumble.

I think the magic number for DE's is going to be around the 100 mark or higher for this era, reason being the number of OLBs who're racking up sacks due to the shift in the 34 in recent years.

If Allen continues he could have 120 plus sacks, if he plays for 10 years, Freeney could come close if he produces at a high level for two more years. Thing is though Freeney has struggled to stay healthy as of late in fact he's not played a full season in 4 years. If he produces as he could 16 more sacks, in two years, if he plays longer he'll be hard to ignore, he had 2 down years. Might be one of those hall of very good, but not good enough caes.

Brent
07-19-2010, 11:34 PM
The lack of kickers in this thread is sad, Jan Stenerud is lonely.
http://archive.profootballtalk.com/NedneyFinger.jpg

no reason other than he's awesome

dannyz
07-20-2010, 12:13 AM
When you look at players like LT and Moss you have to think of their Generation and other Players they played against.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 12:25 AM
I was wondering the other day if Josh Cribbs will be a hall of famer. He will most likely go down as the best kick/punt returner of all time and shatter most of the records, that being said... If the Browns don't ever put anything together and he is just a stat guy, do you think he will get in?

I believe if he shatters records at his position he deserves it, hall of fame needs to be a thing of individual achievement not based on your team.

XxXdragonXxX
07-20-2010, 12:30 AM
I can't believe there are people suggesting Tomlinson isn't a 100% lock for the HoF. Not a chance in hell he doesn't get in first ballot.

ThePudge
07-20-2010, 01:17 AM
I'm not sure why Marvin to the Hall isn't unanimous. 8 consecutive seasons with over 10 Tds, 8 consecutive with over 1100 yds (including three over 1500), the single season reception record (143), three-time first team All-Pro. Ranks 5th all time in Touchdown receptions, 5th in receiving yards, 2nd all-time in receptions. I don't care who he did or didn't shoot, he is a Hall of Famer easily based on his actions on the field.

I wonder, for those arguing against receivers making the Hall, are thinking about the way the game has shifted over the past 10-20-30 years. Almost every other year a passing record or receiving record is broken.

2002 - Marvin Harrison single-season receptions
2004 - Peyton Manning passing Tds
2007 - Tom Brady passing Tds, Randy Moss Td receptions
2008 - Drew Brees 5,000+ yards passing (15 shy of Marinos record)
2009 - Brandon Marshall single game receptions

Once a brutally tough task for a receiver, 100 receptions has become a common occurrence for receivers. There have been 66 times in which a receiver has caught over 100 balls, 39 in the last decade (2000-2009,) 54 since 1995. While surveying the NFL's single-season passing records, 4 of the 7 most productive seasons by an individual throwing the ball occur between 2001 and now. In fact, out of the 30 most productive passing seasons of all-time, 16 occurred from 1999-2008.

That all said, I think you're probably going to see several receivers accomplished enough for the Hall come from this decade. Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are the easy ones, the most talented; however, Marvin Harrison, Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, Chad Johnson, and Steve Smith have/are in the process of putting together careers worthy of that lofty status. The game has changed, it's only reasonable to think that the way the Hall has done things in the past will also change. Comparing today's receivers with those of the 80s or 90s is pointless, as would be comparing Running Backs. These days you rarely have one workhorse back that carries the load for a team, let alone one that does so for nearly a decade... The game has changed, you're likely to see a upward spike in the amount of receivers chosen for the Hall for this generation while the amount of running backs that are putting together Hall-quality resumes is going to see an inevitable decline.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 03:07 AM
Pudge, I don't necessarily agree.

You assume that a change in the game would suggest and more and more wide receivers are voted in, but I think it's just as likely that the voters recognize that it is here that they can define what makes up a HOF-worthy wide receiver is from here on out. I think we'll see the criteria for what makes up a "shoe-in" candidate change dramatically, perhaps even before Harrison is first up for induction.

The longer is takes for him to get in, the less and less likely it's going to be. He's nowhere near on par with Moss or Owens and the more guys who retire with comparable numbers to Harrison, the less impressive he will look.

Do I think Harrison has been good enough to get into the Hall of Fame? Yes. Do I think that he'll move past his competition in the voting to get in before his numbers are belittled by the general upswing of hugely productive wideouts? Not really. It's not impossible, but it will take some luck.

Ness
07-20-2010, 03:54 AM
My first ballot choices:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Randy Moss
LaDainian Tomlinson
Ray Lewis
Brett Favre
Champ Bailey
Tony Gonzalez

All of these guys should get in during the first year they are able to in my opinion.

Ness
07-20-2010, 03:58 AM
Pudge, I don't necessarily agree.

You assume that a change in the game would suggest and more and more wide receivers are voted in, but I think it's just as likely that the voters recognize that it is here that they can define what makes up a HOF-worthy wide receiver is from here on out. I think we'll see the criteria for what makes up a "shoe-in" candidate change dramatically, perhaps even before Harrison is first up for induction.

The longer is takes for him to get in, the less and less likely it's going to be. He's nowhere near on par with Moss or Owens and the more guys who retire with comparable numbers to Harrison, the less impressive he will look.

Do I think Harrison has been good enough to get into the Hall of Fame? Yes. Do I think that he'll move past his competition in the voting to get in before his numbers are belittled by the general upswing of hugely productive wideouts? Not really. It's not impossible, but it will take some luck.

Even as the NFL has become more and more of a passing league, it's going to be more difficult for someone to emulate what Marvin Harrison did, especially statistically. Now I don't think stats tell the entire story (Marvin was a ghost in a lot of his playoff games), but they are a big part of it. As far as wideouts are concerned, the number of 1,000 yard seasons have stayed about the same over the past few years. Even though the NFL has become more of a passing league, I think offenses are finding more talented wideouts to spread the ball around to other players...which doesn't necessarily translate to one player getting bigger numbers.

As for what this has to do with Harrison and his HOF potential status, nothing really. I'm just saying that it's going to be hard to emulate what he did over an entire career. His postseason performances hurt his 1st ballot chances though.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 04:02 AM
I would only argue with Champ Bailey there. He's never been the rock of consistency that I would equate with the great cornerbacks. He's had some fantastic years, but he's had some really rough times too.

Ness
07-20-2010, 04:05 AM
I would only argue with Champ Bailey there. He's never been the rock of consistency that I would equate with the great cornerbacks. He's had some fantastic years, but he's had some really rough times too.

Fair enough. But then again, it's one of the positions in football where it's really hard to be consistent. Especially if the front seven is not that spectacular. If any corner from the last decade deserves it, it should be him.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 04:07 AM
Fair enough. But then again, it's one of the positions in football where it's really hard to be consistent. Especially if the front seven is not that spectacular. If any corner from the last decade deserves it, it should be him.

There may be a bit of fan bias here, but I honestly think that if Nnamdi Asomugha puts together another few years of shut-down play and then makes the transition to free safety successfully, he should make for a much stronger induction case. That's a lot of "ifs" though.

Ness
07-20-2010, 04:14 AM
There may be a bit of fan bias here, but I honestly think that if Nnamdi Asomugha puts together another few years of shut-down play and then makes the transition to free safety successfully, he should make for a much stronger induction case. That's a lot of "ifs" though.

He'd have to have some really good luck for two reasons: his age, and his team. Nnamdi came into the league in 2003, but really didn't break out until 2007 I believe. He's already 29 and still plays for the Oakland Raiders. Things would really have to go his way in the next few seasons to have his chances boosted.

Ness
07-20-2010, 04:17 AM
Really? He was in the NFL for just four years. It's absolutely ridiculous to even mention his name in this discussion. It's unfortunate he was killed, but four years doesn't make a Hall of Famer no matter what the circumstances.

Terrell Davis might be the lone exception to that. He was in the NFL for more than four seasons, but he really only had four good seasons in the NFL. Perhaps the best four season stretch for a runningback in NFL history.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 04:20 AM
He'd have to have some really good luck for two reasons: his age, and his team. Nnamdi came into the league in 2003, but really didn't break out until 2007 I believe. He's already 29 and still plays for the Oakland Raiders. Things would really have to go his way in the next few seasons to have his chances boosted.

We'll have to see if he's even a Raider after this season.

And Nnamdi played had a great first year starting opposite and then replacing Charles Woodson (who got hurt), then nabbed 8 interceptions in 2006. In each of the three seasons since, he's allowed the least receptions of any starting cornerback.

fenikz
07-20-2010, 04:51 AM
Odds of Adrian Wilson making it in

2 100 tackle seasons, 20.5 Career Sacks, 12 FF, 23 INT

the only way I can think of him not getting in is because most anyone outside of Arizona(or the division) knew about him until his late 20s

wicket
07-20-2010, 05:51 AM
2002 - Marvin Harrison single-season receptions
2004 - Peyton Manning passing Tds
2007 - Tom Brady passing Tds, Randy Moss Td receptions
2008 - Drew Brees 5,000+ yards passing (15 shy of Marinos record)
2009 - Brandon Marshall single game receptions


add in Brees records for season passing accuracy last season

BlindSite
07-20-2010, 06:15 AM
why is this interesting?

Because more carries generally means less ypc for a running back if they're a starting player. It's more about how good Williams has been than CJ not having the potential. If CJ keeps it up, hell, if any of them keep it up it'll be interesting to watch.

AntoinCD
07-20-2010, 06:35 AM
Odds of Adrian Wilson making it in

2 100 tackle seasons, 20.5 Career Sacks, 12 FF, 23 INT

the only way I can think of him not getting in is because most anyone outside of Arizona(or the division) knew about him until his late 20s

Im not optimistic. Unless voters opinions change pretty soon that is. Safeties in general have a really hard time getting in to the Hall. Add in as you mentioned he spent the early part of his career under the radar and was probably never the best or even second best safety at any stage. A lot of people dont think Rodney Harrison will go in but his career stats are

7 100 tackle seasons, 1242 total tackles in his career, 30.5 career sacks, 34 INTs and 16 FFs.

I think he is way better than a lot of safeties who also have a chance at the Hall but by the time he retires there may start to be a backlog of safeties waiting to get in and he may get looked over

K Train
07-20-2010, 07:24 AM
He needs a few more big years. One super big year and I think he gets it MAYBE first ballot.

He was our passing attack last season. A poor passing game and he still had over 1000 yards. Not easy facing double teams all season because we had no one else to cover lol

no way in hell

chads stats are pretty close to wards, especially as far as TDs go...hes more of a down field type of guy so he gets a few more yards usually but hes no where near the top of this generation of WR and trying your absolute hardest to be funny and a TV personality doesnt lock you in the hall....he wont sniff the hall, the thought of him going first ballot would be criminal

SloppyJoe
07-20-2010, 07:52 AM
no love for Ronde Barber?

hockey619
07-20-2010, 08:21 AM
Chad Ochocinco will not make the Hall. I dont even think hes got as good of a shot as McNabb, who I think is in the hall of very good but wont quite make it. He may get some votes cause everyone thought he was fun and a great personality, but what hes done on the field cant compete with Randy, TO, Harrison, maybe even Steve Smith guys who were just much more dominant.

scottyboy
07-20-2010, 08:22 AM
this thread is lacking some serious Ray Rice.
and Jeff Feagles

FUNBUNCHER
07-20-2010, 08:43 AM
After Ladanian, there really isn't another RB (other than Marshall Faulk) on the horizon who's even close to making it to Canton.

Sure, you can project ahead for guys like AD, but realistically, RB is one of those positions where you have to be utterly brilliant in your style of play, otherwise you need the longevity and the numbers.

For most backs going forward, IMO if they don't hit 13,000 career rushing yards and at least 95 TDs, the HOF will be a wish not reality.

Think about it; Tiki Barber is not gonna ever make it to Canton. Same for Ahman Green and a host of RBs who were outstanding in their time, but simply weren't consistent enough or didn't have the longevity.

Some act as if Adrian Peterson is a LOCK, when in fact he's 6 years away from even approaching numbers that would make him eligible for the HOF. That's a lot of hits and injuries he'll have to overcome to become one of the greats.

Which is another reason I believe one of the most important traits for an NFL RB is durability. The longer you can play and absorb hit after hit on every carry is one metric that separates the good from the great.

I feel the same way about this generation of WRs. After the obvious top 10 guys, active and retired, are sorted out, I don't see ANY under-25 WRs who look like potential alltimers.

ThePudge
07-20-2010, 08:47 AM
Chad Ochocinco will not make the Hall. I dont even think hes got as good of a shot as McNabb, who I think is in the hall of very good but wont quite make it. He may get some votes cause everyone thought he was fun and a great personality, but what hes done on the field cant compete with Randy, TO, Harrison, maybe even Steve Smith guys who were just much more dominant.

Who said those guys are necessarily "competing?" Due to the recent breakout of the passing game, this generation is bound to see an increase in the amount of receivers considered Hall-bound. It doesn't have to be only four or five players, we're literally witnessing (in the last decade) by far the most prolific passing/receiving decade ever. No need to fret of course, the amount of Running Backs that will be admitted to the Hall will undoubtedly be lower for the 2000-2010 period. Eventually, as the game continues to evolve, you'll see it's requirements (for the Hall) increase.

If Chad is sniffing around 1000 receptions and 15,000 yards he should be in, simple as that. That's three more productive seasons and two that may not be so productive but still have him in some sort of role. For a five year stretch from 2003-2007 he was consistently among the 3-5 most productive receivers in football and though you may have never thought he had the talent (to be a top 5 receiver in the best receiving generation ever,) he still produced as if he did. Whether you'd have agreed with it or not, he was 1st Team All-Pro twice with those same guys playing in the NFL. His personality surely won't get him in the Hall, but I wouldn't doubt his on-field accomplishments and what he has left in the tank. I'm not saying first ballot, of course, but taking into consideration a number of things I can't say that he has 'zero' chance.

FUNBUNCHER
07-20-2010, 08:52 AM
Early day predictions if production continues for some RBS:

Peterson: 3,385 carries for 15,715 yards 140 TDs

CJ2k: 3,045 carries for 16,170 yards 115 TDs

Williams: 2,710 carries for 14,378 yards 130 TDs



You really think there's a serious possibility that Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and Deangelo Williams are arguably the 3 greatest RBs in the history of the NFL??

Speculation too on my part, but NO WAY Deangelo Williams or Chris Johnson come within 3000 yards of those numbers.

Adrian Peterson is going to get seriously hurt, a leg injury I suspect, in the next 4 years, so IMO he'd be lucky to hit 13,000 - 14,000. Which would still get HIM into the HOF.

Of the three I have more faith in AD being the 'one'.

Deangelo Williams and CJ, practically impossible.

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 09:26 AM
After Ladanian, there really isn't another RB (other than Marshall Faulk) on the horizon who's even close to making it to Canton.

Sure, you can project ahead for guys like AD, but realistically, RB is one of those positions where you have to be utterly brilliant in your style of play, otherwise you need the longevity and the numbers.

For most backs going forward, IMO if they don't hit 13,000 career rushing yards and at least 95 TDs, the HOF will be a wish not reality.

Think about it; Tiki Barber is not gonna ever make it to Canton. Same for Ahman Green and a host of RBs who were outstanding in their time, but simply weren't consistent enough or didn't have the longevity.

Some act as if Adrian Peterson is a LOCK, when in fact he's 6 years away from even approaching numbers that would make him eligible for the HOF. That's a lot of hits and injuries he'll have to overcome to become one of the greats.

Which is another reason I believe one of the most important traits for an NFL RB is durability. The longer you can play and absorb hit after hit on every carry is one metric that separates the good from the great.

I feel the same way about this generation of WRs. After the obvious top 10 guys, active and retired, are sorted out, I don't see ANY under-25 WRs who look like potential alltimers.
The question has to be asked on a couple guys...

Curtis Martin? 14,101 career rushing yards for 4th all time, 100 TDs and another 3,329 yards receiving

Edgerrin James? 12,246 career rushing yards for 11th all time, 91 TDs, and 3,364 yards receiving

Edgerrin James is a no... his 1st 2 years were absolutely incredible, but he kind of flamed out after that and became very average.

Curtis Martin on the other hand is a very tough call... he was pretty consistent throughout his career, did everything pretty well, but he only averaged 4 yards per carry throughout his career. He may get in, but it will be in a lean year down the road

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 09:32 AM
this thread is lacking some serious Ray Rice.
and Jeff Feagles

I would get serious thought to Feagles. One of the best directional punters.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-20-2010, 09:34 AM
You really think there's a serious possibility that Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and Deangelo Williams are arguably the 3 greatest RBs in the history of the NFL??

Speculation too on my part, but NO WAY Deangelo Williams or Chris Johnson come within 3000 yards of those numbers.

Adrian Peterson is going to get seriously hurt, a leg injury I suspect, in the next 4 years, so IMO he'd be lucky to hit 13,000 - 14,000. Which would still get HIM into the HOF.

Of the three I have more faith in AD being the 'one'.

Deangelo Williams and CJ, practically impossible.

What? CJ just had 2000 yards last season. Peterson hit the wall hard last year and seemed very lost. In Johnsons last 8 games i think he was over 100 yards in all of them. There was no stopping him. Peterson has seen his YPC go down every season and only had 1 100 yard game after the bye week. With petersons running style of running through people his body will take a bigger beating opposed to CJ who does not take a lot of big hits.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 10:07 AM
Peterson hit the wall hard last year and seemed very lost.

We should all be as lost as Adrian Peterson. 1,819 total yards and 18 touchdowns. Um, yes, please.

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Who said those guys are necessarily "competing?" Due to the recent breakout of the passing game, this generation is bound to see an increase in the amount of receivers considered Hall-bound. It doesn't have to be only four or five players, we're literally witnessing (in the last decade) by far the most prolific passing/receiving decade ever. No need to fret of course, the amount of Running Backs that will be admitted to the Hall will undoubtedly be lower for the 2000-2010 period. Eventually, as the game continues to evolve, you'll see it's requirements (for the Hall) increase.

If Chad is sniffing around 1000 receptions and 15,000 yards he should be in, simple as that. That's three more productive seasons and two that may not be so productive but still have him in some sort of role. For a five year stretch from 2003-2007 he was consistently among the 3-5 most productive receivers in football and though you may have never thought he had the talent (to be a top 5 receiver in the best receiving generation ever,) he still produced as if he did. Whether you'd have agreed with it or not, he was 1st Team All-Pro twice with those same guys playing in the NFL. His personality surely won't get him in the Hall, but I wouldn't doubt his on-field accomplishments and what he has left in the tank. I'm not saying first ballot, of course, but taking into consideration a number of things I can't say that he has 'zero' chance.

I'd be willing to bet almost any amount of money that Chad won't end up anywhere close to 15,000 yards.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Edgerrin James is a no... his 1st 2 years were absolutely incredible, but he kind of flamed out after that and became very average.

Two of his best seasons came in his sixth and seventh years in the league.

Splat
07-20-2010, 10:18 AM
I was wondering the other day if Josh Cribbs will be a hall of famer. He will most likely go down as the best kick/punt returner of all time and shatter most of the records, that being said... If the Browns don't ever put anything together and he is just a stat guy, do you think he will get in?

I believe if he shatters records at his position he deserves it, hall of fame needs to be a thing of individual achievement not based on your team.

This thread is really getting out of hand.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-20-2010, 10:19 AM
We should all be as lost as Adrian Peterson. 1,819 total yards and 18 touchdowns. Um, yes, please.

82 3.4 YPC
85 3.4 YPC
19 1.5 YPC
97 3.7
35 2.9
94 3.9
54 6.0

Along with 5 fumbles. Not exactly lighting up the world on the ground.

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 10:19 AM
Lynn Swann had 1 big game - Super Bowl X. That hardly makes him one of the best big game wide receivers in history. Otherwise, I guess I can say that Timmie Smith is one of the greatest big game running backs of all time, because he destroyed the Broncos in the Superbowl and did virtually nothing else in his career. Swann's in the Hall of Fame because he was THE media darling and he shouldn't be in Canton.

As for Marvin Harrison... he is a first ballot hall of famer. If not, they should just stop doing the Hall of Fame.

1,102 career receptions for 14,580 yards and 128 TDs from a 6' 185lb wide receiver. It's not like he was a giant or insanely fast like some guys... he was just very, very good at what he did. 8 straight 1,000+ yard seasons and 4 straight with 1,400+ yards and at least 100 catches.

As for his alleged character issues... Lawrence Taylor is one of the all time pieces of **** and he's a Hall of Famer and no one would ever think of not including him in it. Ray Lewis may or may not have been a major player in a double murder. He's a no doubt, 1st ballot Hall of Famer.

Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison should all end up in Canton

Superbowl X: 4 receptions, 161 yards, 1 touchdown
Superbowl XIII: 7 receptions, 124 yards, 1 touchdown
Superbowl SIV: 5 receptions, 79 yards, 1 touchdown

3 games: 14 catches, 369 yards, 3 touchdowns

That's pretty ******* good if you ask me. Especially on such a run-oriented team.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 10:21 AM
82 3.4 YPC
85 3.4 YPC
19 1.5 YPC
97 3.7
35 2.9
94 3.9
54 6.0

Along with 5 fumbles. Not exactly lighting up the world on the ground.

In four of those six games, he also added at least 43 receiving yards, including a 73-yard game against Carolina.

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 10:22 AM
This thread is really getting out of hand.

The thought of putting in special teamers, when guys like Randy Gradashir are still waiting, makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

He returns kicks and punts because he is not able to do anything else on the football field. It's one of the only ways the Browns can get him the ball. So why on earth should he be included with the best players of all-time?

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-20-2010, 10:22 AM
In four of those six games, he also added at least 43 receiving yards, including a 73-yard game against Carolina.

An the fumble in the chicago game which cost them the game and a shot at HFA.

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 10:26 AM
The thought of putting in special teamers, when guys like Randy Gradashir are still waiting, makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

He returns kicks and punts because he is not able to do anything else on the football field. It's one of the only ways the Browns can get him the ball. So why on earth should he be included with the best players of all-time?
L.C. Greenwood is asking what the ****?

Hey, we also snap the ball right to Cribbs, ass :)

tjsunstein
07-20-2010, 10:32 AM
Do you think playing the same era as Brady, Brees, and Manning will hinder any chance that Rodgers would have at the hall of fame if he continued pace? Theoretically speaking.

AntoinCD
07-20-2010, 10:42 AM
Do you think playing the same era as Brady, Brees, and Manning will hinder any chance that Rodgers would have at the hall of fame if he continued pace? Theoretically speaking.

I dont think so because he should still be in his prime when at least Manning retires. He could realistically play 7-10 years after all three have retired. Of course he will probably need a ring at least though.

K Train
07-20-2010, 10:49 AM
he would probably need multiple rings and pull a favre and play for 15 years because at his continued pace what is separating him froma guy like phillip rivers and carson palmer? all can put up 4000 a season and 25-30 TDs for their whole career but a guy like eli has a rings, a SBMVP, great winning % and similar numbers. roethlisberger has 2 rings, may be one of the top 3 winningest QBs when its said and done, was the youngest to win a SB, youngest to 50 wins, throws alot of TDs and has adequate yards with a great YPA average

look at it as favre will likely be in the hall in 6 years, 7 at the latest he really cant go much longer (can he?), peyton and brady might be in 9 years if they play 4ish more, similar with brees, and then a few years behind him you have guys like ben and eli that will probably have a hall worthy resumes....guys like rodgers are gonna have to go ape **** this decade to close the gap on some of the guys we consider locks and some of the guys we consider possible canidates

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 10:49 AM
L.C. Greenwood is asking what the ****?

Hey, we also snap the ball right to Cribbs, ass :)

That's right, I remember him and Harrison running roughshod out of the Wildcat over the Jags at the end of the year.

Still, though, there's very little (if any) place in the HoF for special teamers. I used to say that back when people used to say Vinatieri should be in the Hall. There's too many other deserving players who played far more important positions.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Brees is only 30 soon to be 31 right now, so if he gives a good 4-5 years I say he is a shoe in, especially if we get another ring in that time frame. Only Peyton, Brady, and McNabb are active starting QBs ahead of him, and all three are older. If he has 4000 yard seasons for the next 4 years (which isnt unrealistic) He will be in the Top Ten looking in towards the Top Five in all time passing yards. And if he avg 25 TD's those 4 years he is looking Top 5 in passing TD's as well.

iowatreat54
07-20-2010, 11:08 AM
An the fumble in the chicago game which cost them the game and a shot at HFA.

I'm not arguing whether or not AD will make the HoF or not, but surely you jest with the bolded point...

ThePudge
07-20-2010, 11:08 AM
I'd be willing to bet almost any amount of money that Chad won't end up anywhere close to 15,000 yards.

Depending on what you consider 'close' I'd be willing to take that bet. Some (that don't actually watch the team/games) think that Chad's performance will decline in upcoming years. 2008 was a fluke year, Moss had his in Oakland, Chad had his catching balls from Ryan Fitzpatrick. Last season the team was much more run-oriented. I'm not under the impression that Chad can do what he did last year for two more seasons, I'm under the impression that he stands a decent chance of improving (his numbers at least.)

He had a terrific year last year without much around him (loss of Chris Henry, T.J., and useless Coles). This season you can bet the offensive focus will even out a bit and whether or not Antonio Bryant delivers the Bengals receiving core looks much better (with the additions of Shipley/Gresham.) He takes care of his body, he's been relatively heathy his entire career, he should be in the league at least 5 more seasons... I say he taps out at age 37 like many other accomplished receivers. He's 32, he's healthy, he's in great shape, and he already has roughly 700 rec-10,000 yds.

I'm not saying he'll make it, but I'm not stupid enough that I'll cut off his chances pretending his career ends today. Right now, he's obviously out, I don't need anyone to tell me that. The Bengals' best days look to be in the near future, take it for what it's worth. He doesn't need four identical years, if he has two very good years, a decent year, then a couple of pretty ****** ones. I'm not going to assume that 4 years is the career limit for a guy that has never sustained a serious injury & remains in great shape.

We'll see this year if he can recapture his 90 rec 1300 yard form with the added help & shift of offensive focus. If he can't come close, then sure, he may be done as far as Hall chances go... but there are plenty of people that believe (with good reason) that he'll be more productive this year than last. Add in the Bengals' chances to make a splash in the playoffs in coming years and you've got an opportunity to do big things on a big stage, something that his career is severely lacking right now. I'm not big on "what if's," but the one thing that annoys me more is "never's." Once again I'm not saying he's definitely in or definitely out, but looking forward I really don't think we can chalk up his career right now before his skill set has even begun deteriorating (and with his team on the upswing)...

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
07-20-2010, 11:13 AM
I think Chad could put up good numbers throughout the rest of his career but the HOF is for straight up great players and Chad is just a very good receiver.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 11:16 AM
I'm not arguing whether or not AD will make the HoF or not, but surely you jest with the bolded point...

its home field advantage not hall of fame.

Bengals78
07-20-2010, 11:18 AM
This makes me sad inside. If not for that fat ******* idiot Kimo, we would be talking about Carson and the HOF.

Job
07-20-2010, 11:21 AM
Adrian Peterson is going to get seriously hurt, a leg injury I suspect, in the next 4 years, so IMO he'd be lucky to hit 13,000 - 14,000. Which would still get HIM into the HOF.


http://biblestudy.w4aw.org/nostradamus2.jpg

RaiderNation
07-20-2010, 11:22 AM
One sleeper to watch is Nnamdi Asomugha. Thing is his chances to get in dont really fall on him, but the team he is on. If he was on the say the Colts during his career I could see him going in since he has been the most dominant CB in the league since 2006. Hopefully the Raiders can start improving while we have him

iowatreat54
07-20-2010, 11:29 AM
its home field advantage not hall of fame.

Oh phew. I saw that before a meeting and read quickly and had to respond. Thank god I was wrong. My apologies for being unable to read, Mr. Dreadlock.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 11:37 AM
Oh phew. I saw that before a meeting and read quickly and had to respond. Thank god I was wrong. My apologies for being unable to read, Mr. Dreadlock.

I thought HoF at first too haha.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 11:59 AM
This thread is really getting out of hand.

It's more curiosity than anything... How does a kick returner who will end up having every single record (most likely) and have them by a long shot not deserve to be honored as a kick returner in the hall of fame? If he is the best to ever play his position he should be honored with it in the hall of fame, same goes with a kicker or punter. The hall of fame honors self-achievement and I see no reason why someone who puts up the best numbers ever at his position shouldn't be considered.

iowatreat54
07-20-2010, 12:02 PM
Does Dante Hall have the return records now? I know he has most TDs I'm pretty sure. But if he has them, there's your answer.

Bengals78
07-20-2010, 12:02 PM
I actually agree with WB.
Cribbs should be considered if he owns all the records and it isnt close.
If you are the best ever, you deserve to be recognized as such.
It's not like it will take him playing 20 years to just rack up absurd numbers, but the pace he is on, should make him a HOF'er for ST. Put him with the kickers and punters.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 12:04 PM
Does Dante Hall have the return records now? I know he has most TDs I'm pretty sure. But if he has them, there's your answer.

Cribbs passed Hall last year and there are no signs of him slowing down. Hall was also tied with like 3 others.

"On December 20, Cribbs returned two kickoffs for touchdowns against the Kansas City Chiefs to set and extend the all-time NFL record for most kickoff returns for TD's in a career."

Another sick stat that doesn't have to do with kick returns is that he is averaging 6.5 yards per carry via wild cat and other formations, didn't know it was that high.

iowatreat54
07-20-2010, 12:06 PM
Cribbs passed Hall last year and there are no signs of him slowing down.

"On December 20, Cribbs returned two kickoffs for touchdowns against the Kansas City Chiefs to set and extend the all-time NFL record for most kickoff returns for TD's in a career."

I was just wondering who has the records currently outside of Cribbs, i.e. Hall had Tds, who had most yards, etc.

And does Cribbs have just the KR TD record, or overall return TD record. I'm pretty sure most of Hall's TDs were punt returns, but I could be mistaken. Does Hall still have the overall record? Because I think he was who was brought up when Hester was getting close before falling off the planet.

iowatreat54
07-20-2010, 12:18 PM
So I just looked, and I'm prefacing this with I'm combining punt returning and kick returning because it's just my preference, but I don't think someone who only returns one or the other deserves to be in the HoF. With that said...

Most Returns, Career, 1,070, Brian Mitchell, 1990-2003
Most Yards Returned, Career, 19,013, Brian Mitchell, 1990-2003
Most Touchdowns, Career, 13, Brian Mitchell, 1990-2003

Those are for combined Kick and Punt returns. I don't know what Cribbs's numbers are compared to that, but is Brian Mitchell in the HoF?

Just because, here's kick returns only...

Most Kickoff Returns, Career, 607, Brian Mitchell, 1990-2003
Most Yards Gained, Career, 14,014, Brian Mitchell, 1990-2003
Most Touchdowns, Career, 8, Joshua Cribbs, 2005-present

As of right now, if Mitchell isn't in, there's no way Cribbs should be.

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 12:55 PM
I actually agree with WB.
Cribbs should be considered if he owns all the records and it isnt close.
If you are the best ever, you deserve to be recognized as such.
It's not like it will take him playing 20 years to just rack up absurd numbers, but the pace he is on, should make him a HOF'er for ST. Put him with the kickers and punters.

There is 1 kicker and 0 punters in the Hall of Fame. It's like that for a reason.

I mean honestly, how can anybody really justify placing someone who plays (maybe) 5 plays a game into the Hall of Fame?

Special teams are important and all, but it's fielded by guys who aren't good enough to get onto the field on offense or defense.

XxXdragonXxX
07-20-2010, 12:56 PM
Cribbs has 10 total returning TDs and 8190 total return yards.


From Wikipedia on Mitchell.
Mitchell is the NFL's second all-time leader in total yardage, second only to Jerry Rice with 23,330 yards, thanks in large part to his 14,014 yards from kickoff returns and his 4,999 punt return yards. Both are NFL records. He also rushed for 1,967 yards on 388 carries (avg. 5.1 rushing yards), caught 255 passes for 2,336 yards, recovered 20 fumbles for 14 return yards, and scored 29 touchdowns (four kickoff returns, nine punt returns, 12 rushing, and four receiving). His 13 special teams touchdowns are also an NFL record. His nine punt return touchdowns are second behind Eric Metcalf (10).

Brian Mitchell also holds the NFL record for most combined yards by any one player against a single opponent: 3,076 all-purpose yards against the Dallas Cowboys

He is also one of only four players to record four seasons of over 2,000 total yards, (the others being Marshall Faulk, Dante Hall and Tiki Barber) and missed out on a fifth by only five yards.


Mitchell however only made 1 pro-bowl in 14 seasons. He set records due to being a good returner for 14 years. Cribbs is the best in the NFL and has only been in the league for 5 seasons, he's already made 2 pro-bowls and was named to the 2000's all decade team. Cribbs wouldn't make it if he retired now, but give him a few more years at this pace and I think he'll break most of Mitchell's records.

Splat
07-20-2010, 01:31 PM
Cribbs passed Hall last year and there are no signs of him slowing down. Hall was also tied with like 3 others.

"On December 20, Cribbs returned two kickoffs for touchdowns against the Kansas City Chiefs to set and extend the all-time NFL record for most kickoff returns for TD's in a career."

Another sick stat that doesn't have to do with kick returns is that he is averaging 6.5 yards per carry via wild cat and other formations, didn't know it was that high.

He only has 95 carries for 620 yards and 2 rushing TD's in 6 seasons, this is the freaking HOF we are talking about.

Job
07-20-2010, 02:10 PM
There is 1 kicker and 0 punters in the Hall of Fame. It's like that for a reason.

I mean honestly, how can anybody really justify placing someone who plays (maybe) 5 plays a game into the Hall of Fame?

Special teams are important and all, but it's fielded by guys who aren't good enough to get onto the field on offense or defense.

I disagree about kickers and punters. Sure they wouldn't fare very well on the other plays, but same goes for most other players who would look like goofs trying to ount the ball or make a FG.

wicket
07-20-2010, 02:30 PM
but AD is a lock, hes bound to have the all time fumble record locked and beyond anyones reach in a few years

toddmlazarchick
07-20-2010, 02:50 PM
Hines Ward should not be allowed within 10 miles of the Hall of Fame.

Amen to that! Hines Ward is NOT a HoF WR. PERIOD!!

GB12
07-20-2010, 02:51 PM
Remember when people were calling Devin Hester a lock for the Hall of Fame after his first season

toddmlazarchick
07-20-2010, 02:57 PM
What about Sean Taylor? Now don't burn me but think about it he was on his way to be the Best Safety up there with Reed and Polamalu but he was Murderd. What about HIM?

Believe me when I say Im probably the biggest ST lover on this board but I dont think he will ever make it. He surely could have been the best ever at his position but with only 2 pro bowls to his credit, its not nearly enough :(

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 03:14 PM
Amen to that! Hines Ward is NOT a HoF WR. PERIOD!!

But... but... his blocking.... It's the stuff dreams are made of

Ravens1991
07-20-2010, 03:46 PM
OK on your team, how many players do you think will go to the HOF or at least have a good chance? For the Ravens I say only Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. Ogden will make it but he isnt on the team anymore. I am excluding Flacco and Rice, who knows how their careers will go.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-20-2010, 03:55 PM
OK on your team, how many players do you think will go to the HOF or at least have a good chance? For the Ravens I say only Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. Ogden will make it but he isnt on the team anymore. I am excluding Flacco and Rice, who knows how their careers will go.

Manning- its a given
Wayne- If he can get another ring with a few more pro bowl years possibly
Clark- Great receiver maybe needs same credentials as wayne
Freeney- His body has to hold up first. Will need a few more seasons of double digit sacks

dannyz
07-20-2010, 04:12 PM
I don't think Longevity counts as much if you Really Changed the League. Gale Sayers did not play long but he changed the way the NFL is.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 04:13 PM
I don't think Longevity counts as much if you Really Changed the League. Gale Sayers did not play long but he changed the way the NFL is.

This is true. Sayers didn't flame out after his 6 seasons though, he was forced out due to injury. Besides, his impact was massive. Name a single other player who played that short of a career and had an impact as big.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 04:36 PM
terrell davis. won denver two super bowls. made 'ZBS' a 'household' word/phrase. ran for 2000 yards. ran for 1000 yards in each season he played. nfl mvp. super bowl mvp.

gale sayers. never won a super bowl/championship. ran for 1000 yards twice. averaged 5ypc/career. was fast (yes, i'm understating).

that didn't take long.

pretentious wang.

Saints-
Brees
Sharper
Done

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 04:38 PM
terrell davis. won denver two super bowls. made 'ZBS' a 'household' word/phrase. ran for 2000 yards. ran for 1000 yards in each season he played. nfl mvp. super bowl mvp.

gale sayers. never won a super bowl/championship. ran for 1000 yards twice. averaged 5ypc/career. was fast (yes, i'm understating).

that didn't take long.

I knew you were going to use that.

Splat
07-20-2010, 04:40 PM
OK on your team, how many players do you think will go to the HOF or at least have a good chance?

If we are talking as of today with out speculating on the rest of their career's (which was what this thread was supposed to be) I would say 0 for the Chiefs.

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 04:52 PM
This is true. Sayers didn't flame out after his 6 seasons though, he was forced out due to injury. Besides, his impact was massive. Name a single other player who played that short of a career and had an impact as big.

http://blogs.bet.com/news/playahater/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/070202_vick_vmed_3pwidec.jpg

For all intents and purposes, his career is over.

GB12
07-20-2010, 04:56 PM
I really don't think Darren Sharper should make it. The numbers and accolades are there, but to me he was never a hall of fame player.

dannyz
07-20-2010, 05:30 PM
If we are talking as of today with out speculating on the rest of their career's (which was what this thread was supposed to be) I would say 0 for the Chiefs.

What about Eric Berry? :)

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 05:31 PM
I really don't think Darren Sharper should make it. The numbers and accolades are there, but to me he was never a hall of fame player.

Ok so he has the longevity, personal stats and the team achievements..... how is he not? I know guys are clamoring for Reed and Tory, but this dude has 20 more INTs the Reed who is closest on the list thats active, who by the way was going to retire this offseason, and close to setting the all time INT return yards. Sounds more like a bitter Packers fan then a HoF voter.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 05:32 PM
Ok so he has the longevity, personal stats and the team achievements..... how is he not? I know guys are clamoring for Reed and Tory, but this dude has 20 more INTs the Reed who is closest on the list thats active, who by the way was going to retire this offseason, and close to setting the all time INT return yards. Sounds more like a bitter Packers fan then a HoF voter.

Sweet. Interceptions or no interceptions, he's not a better player.

Splat
07-20-2010, 05:34 PM
Stats, stats and stats...... You could argue he was never even top five in the NFL at his position and he is a HOF'er?

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 05:35 PM
Sweet. Interceptions or no interceptions, he's not a better player.

He isn't a better player? What do you mean by that?

Splat
07-20-2010, 05:36 PM
I think he means Reed >>> Sharper.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 05:39 PM
I think he means Reed >>> Sharper.

This is correct.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 05:41 PM
I think he means Reed >>> Sharper.

Noone doubts that right now Reed is better then Sharper. But the facts remain that the HoF is built on personal achievements, longevity, and team achievements (to a certain extent). In all of those Sharper beats Reed, except Reed has a DPoY award.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 05:42 PM
Noone doubts that right now Reed is better then Sharper. But the facts remain that the HoF is built on personal achievements, longevity, and team achievements (to a certain extent). In all of those Sharper beats Reed, except Reed has a DPoY award.

Reed was better, is better, and always will be better. Interceptions alone cannot measure a DB's worth. You know this.

Splat
07-20-2010, 05:45 PM
No one doubts that right now Reed is better then Sharper. But the facts remain that the HoF is built on personal achievements, longevity, and team achievements (to a certain extent). In all of those Sharper beats Reed, except Reed has a DPoY award.

It's not just now.

You can't name a time when Sharper was hands down the best at his position in the NFL but you can Reed.

And let's not forget that Sharper has played 14 seasons while Reed has played 9 seasons so Sharper having more INT's doesn't mean as much.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 05:49 PM
It's not just now.

You can't name a time when Sharper was hands down the best at his position in the NFL but you can Reed.

And let's not forget that Sharper has played 14 seasons while Reed has played 9 seasons so Sharper having more INT's doesn't mean as much.

Thats one of the reasons Im pointing out, Sharper is still going strong in his 14th season. One of the requirements right?

And pure safety, who was better then Sharper this past year? He changed the way QB's threw against the Saints, and I would go as far to say without him we wouldn't have won the SB.

GB12
07-20-2010, 05:50 PM
Ok so he has the longevity, personal stats and the team achievements..... how is he not? I know guys are clamoring for Reed and Tory, but this dude has 20 more INTs the Reed who is closest on the list thats active, who by the way was going to retire this offseason, and close to setting the all time INT return yards. Sounds more like a bitter Packers fan then a HoF voter.

Wow, really pulling that card? Bitter Packer fan? No, definitely not. I didn't like the fact that he went to the Vikings, but I had no problem with Sharper leaving. We weren't in a position where we could re-sign him at the time. However I saw him for many years on my team and then quite a bit for four years on the Vikings, and I do not feel he is a hall of fame player. He is a very good player, but not a hall of famer. In fact, despite his All Pro selections I wouldn't even say he was ever an elite player in the league.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 05:56 PM
Also sorry if I bolded too much. Just learned how to do that haha. But im not trying to say Sharper is a lock down 1st ballot or anything. I just think if a safety does get it, it should be him. Reed second.

prock
07-20-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't understand why you would think that. Statistics don't tell the tale for safeties.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 05:59 PM
And pure safety, who was better then Sharper this past year?

Ed Reed, Adrian Wilson, maybe Brandon Meriweather. Again, most interceptions =/= best player. Sharper was burned more than a few times and didn't seem to do much against the run.

GB12
07-20-2010, 06:00 PM
I don't understand why you would think that. Statistics don't tell the tale for safeties.

Well it's not just statistics. He was a five time pro bowler, a five time all pro, part of the 2000s all decade team, and a Super Bowl champion.

Everything says he should be in, but he just wasn't a Hall of Fame caliber player.

Splat
07-20-2010, 06:03 PM
The only thing worse then stats are pro bowls. :)

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't understand why you would think that. Statistics don't tell the tale for safeties.

I didn't just say stats, I gave other reasons as well.... He changed the way they game planned against us and he was a top safety while with the Packers.His first year with the Vikes was very good as well so it wasn't just at GB he did well, its every place he has been.

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 06:05 PM
The only thing worse then stats are pro bowls. :)

This is so true.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 06:06 PM
I didn't just say stats, I gave other reasons as well.... He changed the way they game planned against us and he was a top safety while with the Packers.His first year with the Vikes was very good as well so it wasn't just at GB he did well, its every place he has been.

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

GB12
07-20-2010, 06:08 PM
I didn't just say stats, I gave other reasons as well.... He changed the way they game planned against us and he was a top safety while with the Packers.His first year with the Vikes was very good as well so it wasn't just at GB he did well, its every place he has been.

He was actually pretty bad in Minnesota. Even Vikings fans will tell you that.

prock
07-20-2010, 06:10 PM
It is true. He had a decent first year, had a lot of picks, but he made up for those picks with blown gambles.

Splat
07-20-2010, 06:10 PM
I think most would agree that Sharper was good every where he has been because he was but this is the HOF we are talking about.

zachsaints52
07-20-2010, 06:13 PM
I think most would agree that Sharper was good every where he has been because he was but this is the HOF we are talking about.

And he has the criteria, all of it, to be in there if any Safeties go.

Sniper
07-20-2010, 06:17 PM
It is true. He had a decent first year, had a lot of picks, but he made up for those picks with blown gambles.

So he's Asante Samuel?

Splat
07-20-2010, 06:22 PM
There are only 21 Defensive Backs in the HOF and only 6 of them just played S the rest either played CB or a little of both CB and S.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspx

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 07:00 PM
I really liked Sharper over his whole career, but I wouldn't put him in the Hall before Dawkins or even Lynch. Not that I'm sold any of those guys get in, but while Sharper has been the model of consistency and one of the best pure free safeties in the NFL going back quite a while, he's pretty damn far from being integral to the story of the NFL during his career.

His best shot is going on on being tied for 6th in all-time interceptions (and possibly moving higher after this season, which may be his last), but I think he languishes outside of the finalist list forever.

scottyboy
07-20-2010, 07:21 PM
remember that time sharper was just an ok-good safety in Minny and thrived off williams' blitzes and playing mark sanchez?

also, interceptions? remember that time Deltha O'Neal had like 10 picks in a season or something? yea, HOF

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 07:30 PM
That's pretty unfair Scotty. Like I said, it's not like Sharper had a few huge years of interceptions and was invisible all the rest. He's tied with Ronnie Lott for all time interceptions and if he manages only 3 more in his career the only guys ahead of him will be Krause, Tunnell, and Woodson (all in the HOF). His time in Minnesota makes up for less than 30% of his career interception total.

I don't think he gets in, but let's not resort to knocking him down unnecessarily. Sharper has been very very good for a very long time.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-20-2010, 07:31 PM
The only thing worse then stats are pro bowls. :)

Does that make Vince Young great then? His stats are bad but he just wins gamezzz!!1!

prock
07-20-2010, 07:32 PM
That's pretty unfair Scotty. Like I said, it's not like Sharper had a few huge years of interceptions and was invisible all the rest. He's tied with Ronnie Lott for all time interceptions and if he manages only 3 more in his career the only guys ahead of him will be Krause, Tunnell, and Woodson (all in the HOF). His time in Minnesota makes up for less than 30% of his career interception total.

I don't think he gets in, but let's not resort to knocking him down unnecessarily. Sharper has been very very good for a very long time.

The thing with Sharper is he is a gambler. He may make a lot of big plays, but he gives up a disproportionate amount of big ones as well.

dannyz
07-20-2010, 07:32 PM
http://blogs.bet.com/news/playahater/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/070202_vick_vmed_3pwidec.jpg

For all intents and purposes, his career is over.

He was good in like his First couple of Seasons and then he just was not good. No he will never make it in.

Job
07-20-2010, 07:39 PM
He was good in like his First couple of Seasons and then he just was not good. No he will never make it in.

What's your point, considering he was not at all suggesting he should be in the HoF?

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 07:39 PM
The thing with Sharper is he is a gambler. He may make a lot of big plays, but he gives up a disproportionate amount of big ones as well.

Disproportionate? I think Sharper's big play made to big plays surrendered has always been pretty proportional during his career, especially when he was with the Packers.

He takes risks, sure, but all interception artists do.

prock
07-20-2010, 07:43 PM
Disproportionate? I think Sharper's big play made to big plays surrendered has always been pretty proportional during his career, especially when he was with the Packers.

He takes risks, sure, but all interception artists do.

Yeah, I know, but I just think he got burned deep or caught guessing wayyy more than he should have. He has a lot of picks, but someone like Ed Reed who will probably end up having more than him, ***** up less than Sharper. Sharper was a good free safety, but I just think his numbers don't tell his whole tale. When I think of Sharper, I think of him getting burned deep. Maybe that is unfair to think of him like that, but I can't see him getting into the Hall.

PACKmanN
07-20-2010, 07:44 PM
That's pretty unfair Scotty. Like I said, it's not like Sharper had a few huge years of interceptions and was invisible all the rest. He's tied with Ronnie Lott for all time interceptions and if he manages only 3 more in his career the only guys ahead of him will be Krause, Tunnell, and Woodson (all in the HOF). His time in Minnesota makes up for less than 30% of his career interception total.

I don't think he gets in, but let's not resort to knocking him down unnecessarily. Sharper has been very very good for a very long time.

The problem with Sharper is he wasn't an all-around player. If we're going to discuss the best and all-around players that should be in the Hall, than he isn't it. Sharper may have had one of the best playmaking skillsets in the game, but he lacked the run support aspect of his game.

He wasn't a complete player, and at times even shyed away from the runner so he could aviod the tackle. Plus, some of his picks came from being greedy and having a big ego to no follow the designed play and do what he wanted to do.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 07:47 PM
He only has 95 carries for 620 yards and 2 rushing TD's in 6 seasons, this is the freaking HOF we are talking about.

I'm not saying he deserves the hall of fame because of his rushing stats I was just saying I didn't realize he had such a high YPC.

Edit: the whole point behind me bringing up Cribbs is the point of do you leave a player out who shatters records just because of the position he plays? If Cribbs was on a team that was actually good he would get 10x the recognition he gets now and people would probably actually overrate his value at that point.

If he ends up with about 18-20 total return touchdowns and the record for return yards then I believe he deserves consideration for the hall.

scottyboy
07-20-2010, 07:50 PM
That's pretty unfair Scotty. Like I said, it's not like Sharper had a few huge years of interceptions and was invisible all the rest. He's tied with Ronnie Lott for all time interceptions and if he manages only 3 more in his career the only guys ahead of him will be Krause, Tunnell, and Woodson (all in the HOF). His time in Minnesota makes up for less than 30% of his career interception total.

I don't think he gets in, but let's not resort to knocking him down unnecessarily. Sharper has been very very good for a very long time.

I agree, but never until his huge play in NO were anyone ever talking him really HOF. He's had a lot of very good seasons, but it's not the hall of very good.

Bengals78
07-20-2010, 07:51 PM
scotty: Brian Leonard, first or 2nd ballot

scottyboy
07-20-2010, 07:52 PM
scotty: Brian Leonard, first or 2nd ballot

wait, he's not in yet? BULL ****!

Bengals78
07-20-2010, 07:52 PM
wait, he's not in yet? BULL ****!

First ever active player

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 07:58 PM
Ed Reed will never catch Sharper in INTs... Reed only has 40 some and Sharper has what? 63?

Reed has been on the verge of retirement each of the last 2 seasons and his body is letting him down.

Job
07-20-2010, 08:00 PM
Interceptionzzz rawrrr.

PACKmanN
07-20-2010, 08:47 PM
wait, he's not in yet? BULL ****!

Ray Rice's tights have taken all the room

dannyz
07-20-2010, 08:48 PM
What's your point, considering he was not at all suggesting he should be in the HoF?

He showed Vick because it said Who changed the Game? Vick is not that good and was only good in his First Couple of Seasons.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 09:15 PM
let me know when ray guy gets in and we can discuss whether or not another guy who hasn't even done anything yet deserves it.

Josh Cribbs hasn't even done anything yet?

He holds the record for all time kick return touchdowns and has only played 5 years.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 09:25 PM
let me know when that wins you a super bowl. or hell, gets you into the playoffs. or translates into more than one single winning season.

A kick returner obviously can't single handily take a team to the playoffs but he can make a good team a great team, Cribbs is not only the best kick returner but probably one of the best tacklers on special teams in the entire league.

Just because a player is on a horrible team shouldn't mean that they don't deserve consideration IMO.

If you are against kick returners making the hall then fine, but Cribbs is on pace to destroy records and that's why I believe he should get consideration.

I'm not saying for sure he should get in or that it would be a travesty if he didn't, I just think he should get consideration from the league if he keeps up this pace down the road.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 09:28 PM
Why are we talking about Josh Cribbs again?

Brent
07-20-2010, 09:29 PM
i'm against players who have a near zero effect on their team winning games making the hall.
what about Ray Guy?

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 09:30 PM
i'm against players who have a near zero effect on their team winning games making the hall.

If a player can constantly start you off around the 40 yard line it significantly decreases the distance your offense has to take the ball, it puts more pressure on opposing coaches on how to approach it (Kick to him or squib it usually leading to good field position anyway) and kick return touchdowns can easily sway the momentum of the game.

Ask fans of the AFCN and see if they believe Cribbs has near zero effect on the games, he's practically the only reason we won a couple games this year.

Why are we talking about Josh Cribbs again?

Because I was curious if people thought if a returner that will end up shattering records should deserve consideration, apparently not.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 09:41 PM
again, let me know when that translates into more than ~6 wins per season. then it might be a meaningful argument.

It doesn't, but when does one right tackle translate into that, one full back, one tight end, one safety... It's a whole team, if Cribbs was on a team like the Saints and put them in amazing field position almost every drive their scoring would go up even more, thats the effect a kick returner has on a good team.


cute omniscience.

... He already has broken the kick return td record with 5 years of playing, it's not like im making a far out huge prediction like Sam Bradford will be a perennial pro-bowler and lead the Rams to 5 super bowls.

Cribbs also already holds records with Adian Peterson, Lionel James, and Gale Sayers as one of the only players having 2 300 all purpose yard games in a career.

FUNBUNCHER
07-20-2010, 09:50 PM
The problem with Sharper is he wasn't an all-around player. If we're going to discuss the best and all-around players that should be in the Hall, than he isn't it. Sharper may have had one of the best playmaking skillsets in the game, but he lacked the run support aspect of his game.

He wasn't a complete player, and at times even shyed away from the runner so he could aviod the tackle. Plus, some of his picks came from being greedy and having a big ego to no follow the designed play and do what he wanted to do.

Deion Sanders says tackling(!!) is for sissies!!

Seriously though, I wouldn't have a problem if Sharper eventually was inducted, but safeties are the forgotten men among HOF voters. When Sharper retires, his legacy will become fainter and fainter with each passing year.
John Lynch and Brian Dawkins, two other safetieswhom I feel are HOF worthy, also have a slim chance of making the final cut.

Some of these guys will be graybeards before the Hall ever gives them recognition.

I'm interested to see how the handful of HOF worthy Saints players who won New Orleans first SB will be regarded by voters; because of the franchise's history and decades of futility, I think their best players get a bump from winning the Lombardi by HOF voters.

EDIT: btw, special teams can be devastating in the playoffs. Darrell Green's punt return TD against the Bears sealed the victory for the SKins on their way to the SB. Devin Hester's return against the Colts put Chicago in a position to win, and the return against the Giants by the Ravens kick returner was the one play IMO that broke the back of the G-men.

But if Ray Guy isn't in, and I doubt Brian Mitchell ever gets there, unless Cribbs blows away Mitchell's numbers, he's not going either.

prock
07-20-2010, 10:01 PM
again, let me know when that translates into more than ~6 wins per season. then it might be a meaningful argument.



cute omniscience.

That is such a dumb argument. It is a team game. Joe Thomas is on a bad team, does that make him any less of a player? Hell no.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 11:02 PM
I think njx is implicating that as good a kick returner as Cribbs may be (and, let's be honest, that's the only facet of the game where he's produced like Pro Bowler, not even to mention discussing him as a candidate for the Hall), no kick returner, no matter how good, makes a big enough impact over the course of a season to warrant consideration for the HOF.

I sorta agree, to be quite honest.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 11:03 PM
I think njx is implicating that as good a kick returner as Cribbs may be (and, let's be honest, that's the only facet of the game where he's produced like Pro Bowl, not even to mention discussing him as a candidate for the Hall), no kick returner, no matter how good, makes a big enough impact over the course of a season to warrant consideration for the HOF.

I sorta agree, to be quite honest.

Yeah I can see why people don't want a kick returner in the hall it was more of a topic for discussion.

Philliez01
07-20-2010, 11:05 PM
Devin Hester's return against the Colts put Chicago in a position to win,


In the first 20 seconds of the game?

SuperMcGee
07-20-2010, 11:11 PM
I think the fact that Steve Tasker also averaged 6.5 yards per carry is what will finally get him over the hump in the next induction.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 11:13 PM
I think the fact that Steve Tasker also averaged 6.5 yards per carry is what will finally get him over the hump in the next induction.

Hilarious.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 11:23 PM
If Cribbs can turn into a 1000-1200 scrimmage yards per season player while still returning kicks like he does and manages to do that for half a decade or more, maybe then we can talk.

PoopSandwich
07-20-2010, 11:23 PM
which is what you might say if you read that single comment in a vacuum instead of following the conversation.

Where in the conversation did I say "Kick returners single handily win games"

You said i'm against players who have a near zero effect on their team winning games making the hall.

That's where I think he and I started to disagree with what you were saying.

Ness
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
A kick returner obviously can't single handily take a team to the playoffs but he can make a good team a great team, Cribbs is not only the best kick returner but probably one of the best tacklers on special teams in the entire league.

Just because a player is on a horrible team shouldn't mean that they don't deserve consideration IMO.

If you are against kick returners making the hall then fine, but Cribbs is on pace to destroy records and that's why I believe he should get consideration.

I'm not saying for sure he should get in or that it would be a travesty if he didn't, I just think he should get consideration from the league if he keeps up this pace down the road.
Unfortunately kick returners just aren't effective enough to make a terrible team even decent. I could see the argument for making a good team into a great team, but a kick returner will never make a terrible team into even a decent team. Just like a kicker won't. The position just doesn't have the impact. Joe Thomas has a better chance of getting into the Hall at this point than Cribbs.

tenorx
07-21-2010, 12:15 AM
Unfortunately kick returners just aren't effective enough to make a terrible team even decent. I could see the argument for making a good team into a great team, but a kick returner will never make a terrible team into even a decent team. Just like a kicker won't. The position just doesn't have the impact. Joe Thomas has a better chance of getting into the Hall at this point than Cribbs.

Cribbs defeated us almost alone last year, I really see potential in that kid, 1-man army type.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-21-2010, 12:49 AM
The problem is that "potential" is a word that should never ever be used in a thread like this.

PoopSandwich
07-21-2010, 12:54 AM
Unfortunately kick returners just aren't effective enough to make a terrible team even decent. I could see the argument for making a good team into a great team, but a kick returner will never make a terrible team into even a decent team. Just like a kicker won't. The position just doesn't have the impact.

Yes but then where do you draw the line. A right tackle isn't gonna make a bad team a good team, a safety, full back, tight end... Almost every position besides maybe half back and qb can be said about that. If a player like Josh Cribbs were on a team that was actually good the impact of his kick returns would be amplified greatly. It's not his fault he plays for the lowly Browns.

I understand what NJX is saying about KR not being a huge impact as far as every other position is concerned considering they only get the ball a few times a game, but at the same time when you have someone who is doing what Cribbs is doing I believe it puts him on another level. I'm not even saying if he keeps this up he deserves to get in, I'm just saying I hope the voters at least look at him as a potential candidate if he continues this pace considering he already does have the all time KR TD record.

Ness
07-21-2010, 01:07 AM
Cribbs defeated us almost alone last year, I really see potential in that kid, 1-man army type.

Yes well, football is a team sport unfortunately.

Ness
07-21-2010, 01:15 AM
Yes but then where do you draw the line. A right tackle isn't gonna make a bad team a good team, a safety, full back, tight end... Almost every position besides maybe half back and qb can be said about that. If a player like Josh Cribbs were on a team that was actually good the impact of his kick returns would be amplified greatly. It's not his fault he plays for the lowly Browns.

I understand what NJX is saying about KR not being a huge impact as far as every other position is concerned considering they only get the ball a few times a game, but at the same time when you have someone who is doing what Cribbs is doing I believe it puts him on another level. I'm not even saying if he keeps this up he deserves to get in, I'm just saying I hope the voters at least look at him as a potential candidate if he continues this pace considering he already does have the all time KR TD record.

I think the line is drawn on special teams. Special teams is important of course in football, but it's not something you build around. They're not on the field as much as an offense and defense is. It's usually offense and defense that teams build around. Your special teams is only going to get you so far and if there had to be an order of importance for all three, special teams would come last in my book. Unfortunately this bias (if you want to call it then, but it may be justified) is what has kept people like Steve Tasker and Ray Guy out for so many years.

dannyz
07-21-2010, 01:21 AM
What about Clinton Portis? He probably won't get in but he has been a good player has good stats and played for a long time.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-21-2010, 01:24 AM
What about Clinton Portis? He probably won't get in but he has been a good player has good stats and played for a long time.

Dude, if "good" is the best adjective you can apply to the player you're bringing up, don't bring him up.

Ness
07-21-2010, 01:27 AM
What about Clinton Portis? He probably won't get in but he has been a good player has good stats and played for a long time.

I think he should get in. But there are a lot of guys I'd put ahead of him that may take a long while to get in, so I really don't know his chances. It's really getting harder and harder to get into the HOF. Especially with a lot of the backs from this decade.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-21-2010, 01:34 AM
I really don't think Portis gets in, unless he has a resurgence under Shanahan. I think he's been overworked for too long and might not last as a starter past age 30.

In an age where it's quite possible that Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis will have to wait a year or two to get in, Portis getting in with something close to his current numbers looks impossible to justify.

dannyz
07-21-2010, 01:39 AM
I think he will get to 10,000 Yards this Year. He would have gotten there Last Year but he got Injured.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-21-2010, 01:44 AM
So? Let's even say he has a good year (considering how crowded that backfield is) and gets to 10,500. That still puts him at 22nd all-time, behind Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, and Warrick Dunn.

dannyz
07-21-2010, 01:50 AM
I think the Hall needs to let more players get in at a time. How many get in now? Like Five. Make it 10 that would be good.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-21-2010, 01:56 AM
I think the Hall needs to let more players get in at a time. How many get in now? Like Five. Make it 10 that would be good.

Why do you think this?

And the Hall inducts 4-7 candidates.

dannyz
07-21-2010, 02:01 AM
Because there are some Guys who don't get in that should, and guys who get in right away. If you make it so more can get in the better. The First Ballot Guy's push back the others. Next Year Deion,Faulk. Deion will get in don't know about Faulk.

dannyz
07-21-2010, 02:04 AM
Roger Craig should be in but is not because all the new guys. There are only two Players with 1,000 Rushing, 1,000 Reciving Yards. Craig and Faulk, Marshall will probably get in Next Year but Craig still has to wait.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-21-2010, 02:06 AM
Because there are some Guys who don't get in that should, and guys who get in right away. If you make it so more can get in the better. The First Ballot Guy's push back the others. Next Year Deion,Faulk. Deion will get in don't know about Faulk.

We have different definition of should.

I don't think Portis should get in. Nothing in the game's history would suggest he done enough and I don't want the HOF the get crowded with underwhelming players. I like the exclusivity. It makes the accomplishment mean something.

Ness
07-21-2010, 03:00 AM
Roger Craig should be in but is not because all the new guys. There are only two Players with 1,000 Rushing, 1,000 Reciving Yards. Craig and Faulk, Marshall will probably get in Next Year but Craig still has to wait.

I highly doubt Craig ever gets in. And I really don't think he deserves it necessarily either.

dannyz
07-21-2010, 04:30 AM
Is Troy Polamalu a Lock for the Hall?

tenorx
07-21-2010, 04:37 AM
Is Troy Polamalu a Lock for the Hall?

He is my favourite player so I'll definetly say yes :) He also has a very good reputation within the NFL, and I think everybody respects his work-ethic and vision on the field. However I'm worried about his injuries, but I really hope he can fit in, since he is the most important part of the 2 time SB winning Steelers.

Ness
07-21-2010, 04:41 AM
Is Troy Polamalu a Lock for the Hall?

I'd be surprised if he ever gets in. He's pretty much on his last legs after all of the injuries that have occurred to him throughout his career. And safeties in the Hall are are extremely rare. Steve Atwater isn't even in. The only two guys from the modern era in right now are Rod Woodson and Ronnie Lott, both who played corner for a good amount of time in their careers. So they have versatility on their side, which boosted their chances. Aeneas Williams may have the same leverage to help his case. Here is an interesting blurb from Steve Atwater's wikipedia profile to put it into perspective:

Following his selection to the Broncos Ring of Fame, Atwater was asked about his potential induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. "If I'm selected (for the Hall of Fame), it'll be a great treat, but to be honest with you, I haven't given it a ton of thought," Atwater said. "I was really happy when John (Elway) got inducted, that we've got one person representing the Broncos. If it happens, it'll be great, I really am proud of this award here because it means so much to be recognized right here in the (city) that I played for 10 years."

Atwater's chances for induction into the Hall of Fame are likely hindered by two factors. First, defensive players are less likely to be selected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame than offensive players, and historically, no position has been inducted into the Hall of Fame less than the safety position with only six inductees. Offensive players of the “Live Ball Era” (1978–present) have entered the Hall of Fame at a rate of greater than 3 to 1 over defensive players (19 to 6). The discrepancy is even greater among defensive backs: only three “Live Ball Era” (1978–present) defensive backs are in the Hall of Fame, Ronnie Lott, Darrell Green, and Rod Woodson, and only four defensive backs who entered the NFL since 1971 are in the Hall of Fame: Lott, Green, Woodson and Mike Haynes. Of the nine safeties on the All-Decade Teams of the 1970s and 1980s, only three are in the Hall of Fame: Ken Houston, Larry Wilson and Lott.

Second, all nine of the other currently-enshrined safeties have at least 48 career interceptions, but Atwater has only 24. Although tackles were not an official stat before 2001, Atwater unofficially totaled 1180 tackles in eleven years, averaging 107 tackles per season. By comparison, Ronnie Lott unofficially averaged only 82 per season.

Honestly the only safeties I have making it from the last ten that have a chance of getting in is John Lynch, Brian Dawkins...and maybe Ed Reed. But one of them would be extremely lucky to get in during the next ten years.

So good luck Troy.