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toddmlazarchick
07-20-2010, 02:33 PM
Lets see who you would pick as an all time team of your teams historic players. Perhaps we could have a vote tournament to see who has the most talented all time team.

The only rule is it has to be a 53 man roster, no more no less.

Redskins

QB - Sammy Baugh, Sonny Jurgensen, Joe Theismann
RB - John Riggins, Larry Brown, Cliff Battles, Clinton Portis
FB - Don Bosseler
WR - Art Monk, Bobby Mitchell, Charley Taylor, Wayne Millner, Ricky Sanders, Gary Clark
TE - Chris Cooley, Don Warren, Jerry Smith
OT - Chris Samuels, Turk Edwards, Joe Jacoby, Jim Lachey, George Starke
OG - Mark May, Russ Grimm, Vince Promuto
C - Len Hauss, Jeff Bostic

DE - Charles Mann, Dexter Manley, Gene Brito, Ron McDole
DT - Dave Butz, Diron Talbert, Albert Haynesworth, Darryl Grant
LB - Sam Huff, Wilbur Marshall, Chris Hanburger, London Fletcher, Monte Coleman, Ken Harvey, LaVar Arrington
CB - Darrell Green, Champ Bailey, Pat Fischer, Mike Bass, Paul Krause
S - Ken Houston, Mark Murphy, Sean Taylor, Brig Owens

P - Mike Bragg
K - Mark Mosley
KR/PR - Brian Mitchell

Starting Offense:
QB - Sammy Baugh (HoF)
RB - John Riggins (HoF)
FB - Don Bosseler
WR - Bobby Mitchell (HoF)
WR - Charley Taylor (HoF)
TE - Chris Cooley
OT - Turk Edwards (HoF)
OT - Joe Jacoby
OG - Mark May
OG - Russ Grimm (HoF)
C - Len Hauss

Starting Defense: (4-3 Base)
DE - Charles Mann
DT - Dave Butz
DT - Diron Talbert
DE - Dexter Manley
LB - Sam Huff (HoF)
LB - Monte Coleman
LB - Chris Hanburger
CB - Darrell Green (HoF)
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Sean Taylor
S - Ken Houston (HoF)

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 03:08 PM
QB - Otto Graham (HOF)
RB - Jim Brown (HOF)
RB - Marion Motley (HOF)
WR - Paul Warfield (HOF)
WR - Dante Lavelli (HOF)
WR - Bobby Mitchell (HOF)
TE - Ozzie Newsome (HOF)
LT - Lou Groza (HOF)
LG - Joe Delamielleure (HOF)
C - Frank Gatski (HOF)
RG - Gene Hickerson (HOF)
RT - Mike McCormack (HOF)

DE - Len Ford (HOF)
DE - Bill Glass
DT - Bill Willis (HOF)
DT - Jerry Sherk
LB - Chip Banks
LB - Jim Houston
LB - Clay Matthews
CB - Hanford Dixon
CB - Frank Minnefield
S - Eric Turner
S - Thomas Darden

K - Lou Groza (HOF)
P - Don Cockroft

Good luck stopping our offense

Brent
07-20-2010, 03:44 PM
Coach: Bill Walsh
OC: Mike Shanahan (asst: Mike Holmgren)
DC: George Seifert (assts: Ray Rhodes, Jeff Fisher)

QB: Joe Montana, Steve Young, John Brodie
RB: Roger Craig, Frank Gore, Hugh McElhenny
FB: Tom Rathman, Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson
WR: Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, John Taylor, Dwight Clark
TE: Brent Jones, Russ Francis
OT: Bob St. Clair, Derrek Deese
OG: Jesse Sapolu, Guy McIntyre
C: Fred Quillan, Jeremy Newberry
OG: Randy Cross, Ray Brown
OT: Harris Barton, Bubba Paris

DE: Fred Dean, Charles Haley, Dwayne Board
DT: Leo Nomellini, Dana Stublefield
DT: Bryant Young
DE: Chris Doleman, Cedrick Hardman
OLB: Keena Turner, Matt Hazeltine, Bill Romanowski
MLB: Ken Norton Jr., Gary Plummer
OLB: Dave Wilcox, Hacksaw Reynolds
CB: Jimmy Johnson, Kermit Alexander
CB: Eric Wright, Lowell Wagner
FS: Ronnie Lott, Merton Hanks
SS: Tim McDonald, Jeff Fuller

P: Tommy Davis, Andy Lee
K: Ray Wershing

prock
07-20-2010, 03:46 PM
QB: Fran Tarkenton, Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper
RB: Adrian Peterson, Robert Smith, Chuck Foreman
FB: Maybe Kleinsasser?
WR: Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Jake Reed

I will finish the rest later. Gotta run.

Brent
07-20-2010, 03:52 PM
QB: Fran Tarkenton, Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper
what about Brett Favre?

:p

yourfavestoner
07-20-2010, 03:59 PM
Jacksonville Jaguars
Coach: Tom Coughlin

QB: Mark Brunnell
RB: Fred Taylor
FB: Greg Jones
WR: Jimmy Smith
WR: Keenan McCardell
TE: Kyle Brady
LT: Tony Boselli
LG: Vince Manuwai
C: Brad Meester
RG: Chris Naoele
RT: Leon Searcy

LE: Paul Spicer
NT: John Henderson
UT: Marcus Stroud
RE: Tony Brackens
SLB: Daryl Smith
MLB: Mike Peterson
WLB: Kevin Hardy
CB: Rashean Mathis
CB: Aaron Beasley
FS: Deon Grant
SS: Donovin Darius

That is ******* disgusting.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 04:03 PM
The one time being a Raider fan pays off...

QB - Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett, Rich Gannon
RB - Marcus Allen, Bo Jackson, Clem Davis
FB - Mark Van Eeghen, Marv Hubbard
WR - Tim Brown, Fred Biletnikoff, Cliff Branch, Art Powell
TE - Dave Caper, Todd Christensen
OT - Art Shell, Lincoln Kennedy, Barry Sims
OG - Gene Upshaw, Steve Wisniewski, George Buehler
OC - Jim Otto, Barrett Robins

DE - Otis Sistrunk, Greg Townsend, Lyle Azaldo, Ben Davidson
DT - Howie Long, Chester McGlockton
OLB - Ted Hendricks, Rod Martin, Phil Vilapiano
MLB - Matt Millen, Greg Biekert
CB - Willie Brown, Mikes Haynes, Lester Hayes, Nnamdi Asomugha, Charles Woodson
S - Jack Tatum, George Atkinson, Van McElroy

K - George Blanda
P - Ray Guy

Starting Lineup

QB - Ken Stabler
RB - Marcus Allen
FB - Mark Van Eeghen
WR - Fred Biletnikoff
LT - Art Shell
LG - Gene Upshaw
C - Jim Otto
RG - Steve Wisniewski
RT - Lincoln Kennedy
TE - Dave Casper
WR - Tim Brown

DE - Otis Sistrunk
DT - Howie Long
DT - Chester McGlockton
DE - Greg Townsend
OLB - Ted Hendricks
MLB - Matt Millen
OLB - Rod Martin
CB - Willie Brown
CB - Lester Hayes
CB - Mike Haynes
SS - George Atkinson
FS - Jack Tatum

K - George Blanda
P - Ray Guy
R - Tim Brown

what about Brett Favre?

:p

Does that mean I get to list Rod Woodson, Ronnie Lott, Warren Sapp, Eric Dickerson, James Lofton, and Jerry Rice as Raiders?

prock
07-20-2010, 04:10 PM
Well if I was to count Favre, I would just count his seasons as a Viking, just like with Cunningham. But I still hate Favre, and if he doesn't lead us to a Super Bowl, he will still always be a ******* bastard in my book.

Brent
07-20-2010, 04:19 PM
Raiders
Kenny Stabler is such a bad ass, especially rocking the full beard and long hair.

Joecool
07-20-2010, 07:48 PM
RB: Roger Craig, Frank Gore, Hugh McElhenny

watters was the best..

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 08:02 PM
Would you really start Roger Craig over the King? Is it purely based on the West Coast Offense or do you just like Craig more than McElhenny?

And I still haven't seen a team that can beat the Browns yet... I am looking forward to seeing the Steelers, Bears, and Lions defenses though

K Train
07-20-2010, 08:30 PM
QB - Ben Roethlisberger, Terry Bradshaw, Johnny Unitis
RB - Jerome Bettis, Franco Harris, Rashard Mendenhall, Willie Parker
FB - Marion Motley
WR - Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Yancey Thigpen, Santonio Holmes
TE - Heath Miller, Jerame Tuman, Eric Green
OT - Marvel Smith,
OG - Alan Faneca,
C - Dermotti Dawson, Jeff Hartings, Mike Webster

Defense....**** it im playing a 34

DE - Joe Greene, Aaron Smith, LC Greenwood
DT - Casey Hampton
LB - Greg Lloyd, Lamaar Woodley, Kevin Green, Joey Porter, Jason Gildon, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham, Mike Vrable, James Harrison
CB - Rod Woodson, Mel Blount, Ike Taylor,
S - Troy Polamalu, Chris Hope,

P - Kordell Stewart
K - Jeff Reed
KR/PR -

Starting Offense:
QB - Ben Roethlisberger
RB - Jerome Bettis
FB - Marion Motley
WR - Hines Ward
WR - Lynn Swann
TE - Heath Miller
OT -
OT -
OG - Alan Faneca
OG - Jeff Hartings
C - Dermotti Dawson

Starting Defense: (34 Base)
DE - Joe Greene
DT - Casey Hampton
DE - Aaron Smith
OLB - Lamaar Woodley
OLB - Joey Porter
MLB - Greg Llloyd
MLB - Jason Gildon
CB - Rod Woodson
CB - Mel Blount
S - Troy Polamalu
S -

im having trouble with oline, CB, S, and DT....lol i tried, that was a pain in the ass, some steelers fans chime in on the voids, i favor modern players so much since i think lambert would get crushed in todays league but i couldnt leave those guys off the roster lol....and joe greene is making the switch to a 5 tech lol

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 08:39 PM
The fact that neither Ham or Lambert are starting for you is horrible.

Brent
07-20-2010, 08:40 PM
watters was the best..
Watters was a headcase and a whiner.

Brent
07-20-2010, 08:42 PM
Would you really start Roger Craig over the King? Is it purely based on the West Coast Offense or do you just like Craig more than McElhenny?
I just like Craig more, nothing against Hugh. Also, I havent seen a whole lot of Hugh other than what I can occasionally see on NFLN, which is rare. On the other hand, there are lots of Niners games on youtube from back in the 80s.

K Train
07-20-2010, 08:46 PM
The fact that neither Ham or Lambert are starting for you is horrible.

i didnt like them in a 34 lol

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 08:47 PM
i didnt like them in a 34 lol

Then make it a 43 and stick Woodley at DE. They're the best defensive players in franchise history.

Paul
07-20-2010, 08:51 PM
**** the 34! It's Ham and Lambert.

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 08:53 PM
QB - Ben Roethlisberger, Terry Bradshaw, Johnny Unitis
RB - Jerome Bettis, Franco Harris, Rashard Mendenhall, Willie Parker
FB - Marion Motley
WR - Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Yancey Thigpen, Santonio Holmes
TE - Heath Miller, Jerame Tuman, Eric Green
OT - Marvel Smith,
OG - Alan Faneca,
C - Dermotti Dawson, Jeff Hartings, Mike Webster

Defense....**** it im playing a 34

DE - Joe Greene, Aaron Smith, LC Greenwood
DT - Casey Hampton
LB - Greg Lloyd, Lamaar Woodley, Kevin Green, Joey Porter, Jason Gildon, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham, Mike Vrable, James Harrison
CB - Rod Woodson, Mel Blount, Ike Taylor,
S - Troy Polamalu, Chris Hope,

P - Kordell Stewart
K - Jeff Reed
KR/PR -

Starting Offense:
QB - Ben Roethlisberger
RB - Jerome Bettis
FB - Marion Motley
WR - Hines Ward
WR - Lynn Swann
TE - Heath Miller
OT -
OT -
OG - Alan Faneca
OG - Jeff Hartings
C - Dermotti Dawson

Starting Defense: (34 Base)
DE - Joe Greene
DT - Casey Hampton
DE - Aaron Smith
OLB - Lamaar Woodley
OLB - Joey Porter
MLB - Greg Llloyd
MLB - Jason Gildon
CB - Rod Woodson
CB - Mel Blount
S - Troy Polamalu
S -

im having trouble with oline, CB, S, and DT....lol i tried, that was a pain in the ass, some steelers fans chime in on the voids, i favor modern players so much since i think lambert would get crushed in todays league but i couldnt leave those guys off the roster lol....and joe greene is making the switch to a 5 tech lol

My suggestion... someone else make the team

I think Greg Lloyd wants to know what the **** you're thinking with him as an ILB

K Train
07-20-2010, 08:54 PM
with lambert being 210 pounds, i might make him move to SS in order to play in the modern league

lol

K Train
07-20-2010, 08:57 PM
My suggestion... someone else make the team

I think Greg Lloyd wants to know what the **** you're thinking with him as an ILB

lol well i had like 7 OLBs make the roster of 9 LBs.

he will play where i tell him to damnit.


this was way harder than i thought, but i refuse to think some of these 70s players could hang with modern players...weve had that debate before though

wonderbredd24
07-20-2010, 08:58 PM
lol well i had like 7 OLBs make the roster of 9 LBs.

he will play where i tell him to damnit.


this was way harder than i thought, but i refuse to think some of these 70s players could hang with modern players...weve had that debate before though
Suit yourself, but you're cutting off your nose to spite your face and your team is going to suck ass as a result against these all time teams.

K Train
07-20-2010, 09:02 PM
i knew people would get pissed about lambert....i basically did it on purpose


but in all seriousness...has their ever been a great tackle for the steelers? i got one outstanding guard and 3 outstanding centers easily without even thinking, tackle is way harder for me to think of.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-20-2010, 09:09 PM
My crack at the Steeler defense...

DE - L.C. Greenwood
DT - Joe Greene
DT - Casey Hampton
DE - Ernie Stautner

OLB - Jack Ham
MLB - Jack Lambert
OLB - Greg Lloyd

CB - Rod Woodson
CB - Mel Blount
S - Troy Polamalu
S - Donnie Shell

K Train
07-20-2010, 09:12 PM
My crack at the Steeler defense...

DE - L.C. Greenwood
DT - Joe Greene
DT - Casey Hampton
DE - Ernie Stautner

OLB - Jack Ham
MLB - Jack Lambert
OLB - Greg Lloyd

CB - Rod Woodson
CB - Mel Blount
S - Troy Polamalu
S - Donnie Shell


i just dont like 43 but that looks good, steelers have had great defenses with both schemes so it makes this kind of hard especially when 2 of those great squads were during my lifetime and were 34s. i like shell in there S was giving me a hard time

BeerBaron
07-20-2010, 10:01 PM
Man, no Bears team yet? I guess if you want something done.....

QB: Sid Luckman (HOF) - Jim McMahon
RB: Walter Payton (HOF) - Gale Sayers (HOF) - Red Grange (HOF)
FB: Bronko Nagurski (HOF Charter Member)
WR: Willie Gault - Marty Booker - Devin Hester
TE: Mike Ditka (HOF)

OT: Jimbo Covert - Keith Van Horne
OG: Stan Jones (HOF) - Mark Bortz
C: Olin Kreautz

DE: Richard Dent (should be HOF)
DT: Dan Hampton (HOF) - William Perry
DT: Steve McMichael - Tommie Harris
DE: Doug Atkins (HOF)

SAM: Brian Urlacher - Wilbur Marshall
MIKE: Dick Butkus (HOF)
WILL: Mike Singletary (HOF) - Otis Wilson - Lance Briggs

CB: Mike Richardson
CB: Leslie Frazier
Nickel: Charles Tillman
FS: Mike Brown
SS: Mark Carrier

K: Robbie Gould
P: Brad Maynard

KR/PR - Devin Hester - Gale Sayers (put em both back there and tell me where you kick?)

Head Coach: George Halas (HOF Charter Member)
Defensive Coordinator: Buddy Ryan

Top Strengths:
1.) Linebackers
2.) Running Backs
3.) Return Game

Just so much history....I'm sure I left a few guys out from the early days of the NFL who deserved spots. The secondary and receivers are super weak though...

Who would want to run against those linebackers? Especially when coached by Ryan?

Go_Eagles77
07-20-2010, 10:31 PM
Eagles:

QB - Donovan McNabb | Randall Cunningham | Ron Jaworski
HB - Steve Van Buren | Brian Westbrook | Wilbert Montgomery
FB - Keith Byars
WR - Harold Carmichael | Mike Quick | Tommy McDonald
TE - Pete Pihos | Pete Retzlaff
LT - Tra Thomas | Bob Brown
LG - Bucko Kilroy | Wade Key
C - Chuck Bednarik | Jim Ringo
RG - Jermane Mayberry | Shawn Andrews
RT - Jon Runyan | Al Wistert

DE - Reggie White | Trent Cole
DT - Jerome Brown | Corey Simon
DT - Charlie Johnson | Hollis Thomas
DE - Clyde Simmons | Hugh Douglas
OLB - Seth Joyner | William Thomas
MLB - Chuck Bednarik | Jeremiah Trotter
OLB - Alex Wojciechowicz | Maxie Baughn
CB - Troy Vincent | Sheldon Brown
FS - Brian Dawkins | Wes Hopkins
SS - Andre Watters | Quintin Mikell
CB - Eric Allen | Bobby Taylor

K - David Akers
P - Sean Landeta
HC - Andy Reid

GB12
07-20-2010, 11:06 PM
QB: Brett Favre
RB: Paul Hornung, Tony Canadeo, Ahman Green
FB: Jim Taylor
WR: Don Hutson, James Lofton, Sterling Sharpe
TE: Ron Kramer
LT: Forrest Gregg
LG: Jerry Kramer
C: Jim Ringo
RG: Mike Michalske
RT: Cal Hubbard

DE: Reggie White
DT: Henry Jordan
DT: Gilbert Brown
DE: Willie Davis
LB: John Anderson
LB: Ray Nitschke
LB: Dave Robinson
CB: Herb Adderly
FS: Willie Wood
SS: LeRoy Butler
CB: Charles Woodson

K: Ryan Longwell
P: Craig Hentrich
R: Desmond Howard

Coach: Vince Lombardi

CJSchneider
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
QB- Drew Brees - Archie Manning - Aaron Brooks
RB-Dalton Hilliard – Earl Campbell
RB-Duece Mcallister - George Rogers
FB-Tony Baker
WR-Eric Martin - Marques Colston
WR-Joe Horn – Wes Chandler - Danny Abramowicz
TE-Hoby Brenner - Jeremy Schockey
G-Jim Dombrowski - Jahri Evans
G-Jake Kupp
T-William Roaf – Jamaal Brown
T-Stan Brock
C-John Stinchcomb - John Hill - Lacharles Bently


DL-Wayne Martin – Renaldo Turnbull - Frank Warren
DL-Jim Wilks – Bruce Clark
DL-Joe Johnson- Laroi Glover
DL-Derland Moore - Will Smith - Doug Atkins
LB-Sam Mills – Mark Fields
LB-Vaughan Johnson
LB-Rickey Jackson - Johnathan Vilma
LB-Pat Swilling
CB-Dave Waymer - Tracy Porter
CB- Johnnie Poe – Tyrone Hughes
S-Darren Sharper - Tommy Myers
S-Sammy Knight- Roman Harper
K-Morten Andersen – Tom Dempsey
P-Tommy Barnhardt
KR/PR- Reggie Bush - Micheal Lewis

COACH- Sean Payton

Ness
07-21-2010, 01:23 AM
Coach: Bill Walsh
OC: Mike Shanahan (asst: Mike Holmgren)
DC: George Seifert (assts: Ray Rhodes, Jeff Fisher)

QB: Joe Montana, Steve Young, John Brodie
RB: Roger Craig, Frank Gore, Hugh McElhenny
FB: Tom Rathman, Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson
WR: Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, John Taylor, Dwight Clark
TE: Brent Jones, Russ Francis
OT: Bob St. Clair, Derrek Deese
OG: Jesse Sapolu, Guy McIntyre
C: Fred Quillan, Jeremy Newberry
OG: Randy Cross, Ray Brown
OT: Harris Barton, Bubba Paris

DE: Fred Dean, Charles Haley, Dwayne Board
DT: Leo Nomellini, Dana Stublefield
DT: Bryant Young
DE: Chris Doleman, Cedrick Hardman
OLB: Keena Turner, Matt Hazeltine, Bill Romanowski
MLB: Ken Norton Jr., Gary Plummer
OLB: Dave Wilcox, Hacksaw Reynolds
CB: Jimmy Johnson, Kermit Alexander
CB: Eric Wright, Lowell Wagner
FS: Ronnie Lott, Merton Hanks
SS: Tim McDonald, Jeff Fuller

P: Tommy Davis, Andy Lee
K: Ray Wershing

I know Patrick Willis hasn't proven a lot yet, but I'd probably take my chances with him over Gary Plummer. I'm also surprised you didn't put Deion Sanders at corner. I'd probably go with Vernon Davis over Russ Francis as well.

Shahin
07-21-2010, 01:45 AM
I know Patrick Willis hasn't proven a lot yet, but I'd probably take my chances with him over Gary Plummer. I'm also surprised you didn't put Deion Sanders at corner. I'd probably go with Vernon Davis over Russ Francis as well.

Probably because Deion was only in SF for a year.

wonderbredd24
07-21-2010, 07:19 AM
Brett Favre over Bart Starr?

Chicago's front 7 is just nasty

toddmlazarchick
07-21-2010, 09:56 AM
And I still haven't seen a team that can beat the Browns yet...

Cant beat someone scoring 35 points a game and giving up 36.

Brent
07-21-2010, 10:14 AM
I know Patrick Willis hasn't proven a lot yet, but I'd probably take my chances with him over Gary Plummer. I'm also surprised you didn't put Deion Sanders at corner. I'd probably go with Vernon Davis over Russ Francis as well.
I didn't include Deion because he was there for one year. Vernon hasn't proven enough to be included. Patrick is fringe but is he really an "all-time Niner great" at this point?

Mr. Goosemahn
07-21-2010, 10:15 AM
My team for Pittsburgh

QB: Terry Bradshaw
RB: Franco Harris
RB: Jerome Bettis
FB: Dan Kreider (?)
WR: Lynn Swann
WR: John Stallworth
WR: Hines Ward
TE: Elbie Nickel
LT: Jon Kolb
LG: Alan Faneca
C: Mike Webster
RG: Dermontti Dawson
RT: Larry Brown

DE: L.C. Greenwood
DT: Joe Greene
DT: Casey Hampton
DE: Dwight White
OLB: Jack Ham
ILB: Jack Lambert
OLB: Greg Lloyd
CB: Mel Blount
FS: Donnie Shell
SS: Troy Polamalu
CB: Rod Woodson

K: Gary Anderson
P: Bobby Walden

Almost made it in: Ben Roethlisberger, Heath Miller, Aaron Smith, Ernie Stautner, LaMarr Woodley, James Harrison,

Michigan
07-21-2010, 11:04 AM
Barry Sanders and a ridiculous secondary. Wish I could put more 2000's players here. :(

LIONS
QB: Bobby Layne
RB: Barry Sanders
FB: Cory Schlesinger
WR: Herman Moore
WR: Brett Perriman
TE: Charlie Sanders
OT: Lomas Brown
OG: Harley Sewell
C: Kevin Glover
OG: John Gordy
OT: Lou Creekmur

DE: Robert Porcher
DT: Doug English
DT: Shaun Rogers
DE: William RudyCool
LB: Chris Spielman
LB: Joe Schmidt
CB: Lem Barney
CB: Dick "Night Train" Lane
NB: Dick Lebeau
S: Jack Christiansen
S: Yale Lary

K: Jason Hanson
P: Jim Arnold
RS: Mel Gray

Coach: Wayne Fontes

keylime_5
07-21-2010, 11:10 AM
QB - Otto Graham (HOF)
RB - Jim Brown (HOF)
RB - Marion Motley (HOF)
WR - Paul Warfield (HOF)
WR - Dante Lavelli (HOF)
WR - Bobby Mitchell (HOF)
TE - Ozzie Newsome (HOF)
LT - Lou Groza (HOF)
LG - Joe Delamielleure (HOF)
C - Frank Gatski (HOF)
RG - Gene Hickerson (HOF)
RT - Mike McCormack (HOF)

DE - Len Ford (HOF)
DE - Bill Glass
DT - Bill Willis (HOF)
DT - Jerry Sherk
LB - Chip Banks
LB - Jim Houston
LB - Clay Matthews
CB - Hanford Dixon
CB - Frank Minnefield
S - Eric Turner
S - Thomas Darden

K - Lou Groza (HOF)
P - Don Cockroft

Good luck stopping our offense

only thing i'd change is keeping groza at kicker and putting Doug Dieken at left tackle. Either way, it'll be Joe Thomas on that list before long.

zachsaints52
07-21-2010, 11:22 AM
QB- Drew Brees - Archie Manning - Aaron Brooks
RB-Dalton Hilliard Earl Campbell
RB-Duece Mcallister - George Rogers
FB-Tony Baker
WR-Eric Martin - Marques Colston
WR-Joe Horn Wes Chandler - Danny Abramowicz
TE-Hoby Brenner - Jeremy Schockey
G-Jim Dombrowski - Jahri Evans
G-Jake Kupp
T-William Roaf Jamaal Brown
T-Stan Brock
C-John Stinchcomb - John Hill - Lacharles Bently


DL-Wayne Martin Renaldo Turnbull - Frank Warren
DL-Jim Wilks Bruce Clark
DL-Joe Johnson- Laroi Glover
DL-Derland Moore - Will Smith - Doug Atkins
LB-Sam Mills Mark Fields
LB-Vaughan Johnson
LB-Rickey Jackson - Johnathan Vilma
LB-Pat Swilling
CB-Dave Waymer - Tracy Porter
CB- Johnnie Poe Tyrone Hughes
S-Darren Sharper - Tommy Myers
S-Sammy Knight- Roman Harper
K-Morten Andersen Tom Dempsey
P-Tommy Barnhardt
KR/PR- Reggie Bush - Micheal Lewis

COACH- Sean Payton

You forgot Kyle Turley. That is all.

wonderbredd24
07-21-2010, 11:51 AM
Cant beat someone scoring 35 points a game and giving up 36.

It's not like our defense is putrid... our front 4 are tough with 2 hall of famers and we have one of the best corner duos of all time with Dixon and Minnefield, who made the Pro Bowl as a pair 3 times.

Our offense is just so over the top ridiculously unstoppable, it makes our defense look weak

By the way, are the Lions seriously rolling with Wayne Fontes?

If we need to name a coach, the Browns obviously are going with their name sake.

AntoinCD
07-21-2010, 11:54 AM
Barry Sanders and a ridiculous secondary. Wish I could put more 2000's players here. :(

LIONS
QB: Bobby Layne
RB: Barry Sanders
FB: Cory Schlesinger
WR: Herman Moore
WR: Brett Perriman
TE: Charlie Sanders
OT: Lomas Brown
OG: Harley Sewell
C: Kevin Glover
OG: John Gordy
OT: Lou Creekmur

DE: Robert Porcher
DT: Doug English
DT: Shaun Rogers
DE: William RudyCool
LB: Chris Spielman
LB: Joe Schmidt
CB: Lem Barney
CB: Dick "Night Train" Lane
NB: Dick Lebeau
S: Jack Christiansen
S: Yale Lary

K: Jason Hanson
P: Jim Arnold
RS: Mel Gray

Coach: Wayne Fontes

No Ernie Sims??? Lol

Ness
07-21-2010, 12:35 PM
Probably because Deion was only in SF for a year.

True, but he was still one of the best corners we've ever had.

I didn't include Deion because he was there for one year. Vernon hasn't proven enough to be included. Patrick is fringe but is he really an "all-time Niner great" at this point?

If it's in terms of legacy, I guess I could see why you made your choices. But if it's just from a talent standpoint, I would have to respectfully disagree.

CJSchneider
07-21-2010, 12:50 PM
You forgot Kyle Turley. That is all.

I guess we could switch him out for Frank Warren.

yourfavestoner
07-21-2010, 12:54 PM
No Ernie Sims??? Lol

I remember when I used to argue with Detroit fans about Sims being good.

Dude overpursued more than any linebacker I've ever watched. His speed was a hinderance for him in the NFL, not an asset.

Ravens1991
07-21-2010, 03:25 PM
Ravens.


QB-Joe Flacco
RB-Jamal Lewis/Ray Rice
FB-LeRon McClain
TE-Todd Heap
LT-John Ogden
LG-Ben Grubbs
C-Jason Brown
RG-Marshall Yanda???
RT-Michael Oher

IDK who exactly should be on that oline, the Ravens are still a really young franchise.


43 front 7.

LDE-Trevor Pryce
DT-Haloti Ngata
DT-Sam Adams
RDE-Michael McRary
OLB-Jamie Sharper
MLB-Ray Lewis
OLB-Peter Boulware


34 line up

DE-Trevor Pryce
DT-Sam Adams
DE-Haloti Ngata
OLB-Terrell Suggs
MLB-Bart Scott
MLB-Ray Lewis
OLB-Peter Boulware

CB-Chris McCalister
CB-Duane Starks
FS-Rod Woodson
SS-Ed Reed

Crazy_Chris
07-21-2010, 07:28 PM
Vikings

Offense
QB:Fran Tarkenton Hof
RB:Adrian Peterson
WR:Randy Moss
WR:Cris Carter
TE:Steve Jordan
LT:Gary Zimmerman Hof
LG:Randal McDaniel Hof
C:Mick Tingelhoff
RG:Steve Hutchinson
RT:Ron Yary Hof

Notable Offensive Depth:
Daunte Culpepper QB
Chuck Foreman RB
Robert Smith RB
Ahmad Rashad WR
Anthony Carter WR
Stu Voigt TE
Todd Steussie OT
Matt Birk C
Ed White OG

Defense
DE:Chris Doleman
DT:Alan Page Hof
DT:John Randle Hof
DE:Carl Eller Hof
OLB:Matt Blair
MLB:Jeff Siemon
OLB:Roy Winston
CB:Carl Lee
FS:Paul Krause Hof
SS:Joey Browner
CB:Bobby Bryant

Notable defensive depth
Jim Marshall DE
Kevin Williams DT
Pat Williams DT
Keith Millard DT
Scott Studwll LB
Ed Sharockman CB
Antione Winfield CB

K:Fred Cox
Coach:Bud Grant Hof

nepg
07-22-2010, 09:13 AM
No Jake Reed? Del Rio?

MetSox17
07-22-2010, 11:47 AM
Disclaimer: My knowledge of the 60's and 70's is not very expansive, so i apologize for any omissions i may make. It surely isn't on purpose.

Dallas Cowboys

Offense

QB: Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman, Don Meredith
RB: Emmitt Smith, Tony Dorsett, Don Perkins, Herschel Walker
FB: Daryl Johnston
WR: Michael Irvin, Bob Hayes, Drew Pearson, Tony Hill, Frank Clark
TE: Jason Witten, Jay Novacek
LT: Flozell Adams (really couldn't think of anyone better to put in here) Mark Tuinei?
LG: Larry Allen, Nate Newton
C: Mark Stepnoski, Andre Gurode
RG: John Niland,
RT: Rayfield Wright, Erik Williams

4-3 Defense

DE: Randy White, Charles Haley
DT: Bob Lilly
DT: Leon Lett
DE: Harvey Martin, Ed Jones
OLB: Chuck Howley
MLB: Lee Roy Jordan
OLB: DeMarcus Ware
CB: Mel Renfro
S: Cliff Harris
S: Darren Woodson
CB: Deion Sanders

SaintsFanForLife
07-22-2010, 11:58 AM
QB- Drew Brees - Archie Manning - Aaron Brooks
RB-Dalton Hilliard Earl Campbell
RB-Duece Mcallister - George Rogers
FB-Tony Baker
WR-Eric Martin - Marques Colston
WR-Joe Horn Wes Chandler - Danny Abramowicz
TE-Hoby Brenner - Jeremy Schockey
G-Jim Dombrowski - Jahri Evans
G-Jake Kupp
T-William Roaf Jamaal Brown
T-Stan Brock
C-John Stinchcomb - John Hill - Lacharles Bently


DL-Wayne Martin Renaldo Turnbull - Frank Warren
DL-Jim Wilks Bruce Clark
DL-Joe Johnson- Laroi Glover
DL-Derland Moore - Will Smith - Doug Atkins
LB-Sam Mills Mark Fields
LB-Vaughan Johnson
LB-Rickey Jackson - Johnathan Vilma
LB-Pat Swilling
CB-Dave Waymer - Tracy Porter
CB- Johnnie Poe Tyrone Hughes
S-Darren Sharper - Tommy Myers
S-Sammy Knight- Roman Harper
K-Morten Andersen Tom Dempsey
P-Tommy Barnhardt
KR/PR- Reggie Bush - Micheal Lewis

COACH- Sean Payton




I hate Arron Brooks I would go with Bobby Hebert.

wonderbredd24
07-22-2010, 12:09 PM
how is LeCharles Bentley not starting somewhere on that line?

CJSchneider
07-22-2010, 12:11 PM
I hate Arron Brooks I would go with Bobby Hebert.

I like Hebert more also, not to mention he is a fellow NSU alum, but statistically, Brooks accomplished more.

Go_Eagles77
07-22-2010, 12:18 PM
I remember when I used to argue with Detroit fans about Sims being good.

Dude overpursued more than any linebacker I've ever watched. His speed was a hinderance for him in the NFL, not an asset.
I like how you're talking about him like he's out of the league and he's going to be starting for the eagles this year. I hope he does well but I think there's a good chance he won't be a starter for long.

SaintsFanForLife
07-22-2010, 02:36 PM
I like Hebert more also, not to mention he is a fellow NSU alum, but statistically, Brooks accomplished more.

For some reason all i remember Arron Brooks doing is turning the ball over. So happy to have Breesus.

DoughBoy
07-22-2010, 04:04 PM
QB- Warren Moon (HOF) 9-Time Pro Bowler

RB- Earl Campbell (HOF) 5-time Pro Bowler & 3-time First-Team All-Pro
FB-Tim Wilson

WR-Charley Hennigan- 5-time Pro Bowler & 3-time First-Team All-Pro
WR- Ernest Givins- 2-time Pro Bowler
WR-Drew Hill- 2-time Pro Bowler
TE- Frank Wycheck- 3-time Pro Bowler & 2 time Sexiest Man Alive

T- Michael Roos- 1 time Pro Bowler & 1st Team All-Pro
G-Bob Talamini- 6-time Pro Bowler & 3-time First-Team All-Pro
C- Bruce Matthews-(HOF) 14-time Pro Bowler & 7-time First-Team All-Pro
G- Mike Munchak- (HOF) 9-time Pro Bowler & 2-time First-Team All-Pro
T- Brad Hopkins- 2-Time Pro Bowler & 1 time First-Team All-PRo

DE-Elvin Bethea-(HOF) 8-time Pro Bowler
DT-Albert Haynesworth- 2-time Pro Bowler & 2-time First-Team All-Pro
DT-Ray Childress- 5-time Pro Bowler & 1-time First-Team All-Pro
DE- Don Floyd- 2-time Pro Bowler & 1-time First-Team All-Pro

OLB-Robert Brazile- 7-time Pro Bowler & 2-time First-Team All-Pro
MLB-Keith Bulluck - 1-time Pro Bowler & 1-time First-Team All-Pro
OLB-George Webster- 3-time Pro Bowler & 3-time First-Team All-Pro

CB-Tony Banfield- 3-time Pro Bowler & 3-time First-Team All-Pro
CB-Chris Dishmam- 2-time Pro Bowler & 1-time First-Team All-Pro

S- Ken Houston-(HOF) 12-time Pro Bowler & 2-time First-Team All-Pro
S- Jim Norton- 3-time Pro Bowler & 1 time First-Team All-Pro

KR/PR- White Shoes Johnson

K-Rob Bironas
P-Craig Hentrich

zachsaints52
07-22-2010, 04:06 PM
For some reason all i remember Arron Brooks doing is turning the ball over. So happy to have Breesus.

Brooks had a very good statistical season the year before his last, something like 24 tds to 8 ints? I really was wrong when I kept saying he will get better.

nepg
07-26-2010, 01:41 PM
I like Hebert more also, not to mention he is a fellow NSU alum, but statistically, Brooks accomplished more.
What about Jim Everett? Also, Eric Allen should be on there...probably Quinn Early as well.

CJSchneider
07-26-2010, 01:49 PM
What about Jim Everett? Also, Eric Allen should be on there...probably Quinn Early as well.

What about him? He was with N.O. for 3 years, had a record of 17-30 as a starter and had a 5/4 TD to INT ratio (60 to 48). I have always hated Jim Everett.

nepg
07-26-2010, 02:03 PM
You seemed to be looking for alternatives to Brooks, and Everett was better. Tenure obviously isn't an issue here since you have Darren Sharper after one year. Quality while on the team also seems to not be a consideration since Earl Campbell, who was dog **** in his two years with the Saints, is listed.

XxXdragonXxX
07-26-2010, 09:32 PM
For some reason all i remember Arron Brooks doing is turning the ball over. So happy to have Breesus.

The one thing I remember about Aaron Brooks was opening week in 2003 against the Seahawks. After the Seahawks put a beating on the Saints, Brooks said "I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes."

LizardState
07-29-2010, 11:19 AM
Good list annotated here. btw Dallas does not retire nos. b/c it has the Ring of Honor (RoH).

Dallas Cowboys in the HOF:

Herb Adderley, Troy Aikman, Lance Alworth (also SD), Mike Ditka (also Chicago Bears), Tony Dorsett, Forrest Gregg (also GB), Michael Irvin, Tom Landry (as NY Giants Player-Coach & Dallas HC), Bob Lilly, Tommy McDonald, Mel Renfro, Tex Schramm (GM), Jackie Smith (also St. Louis Cards), Roger Staubach, Randy White, Rayfield Wright



Dallas Cowboys

Offense

QB: Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman (SB MVP), Don Meredith (all RoH)
RB: Emmitt Smith (RoH), Tony Dorsett (still holds NFL longest run from scrimmage rcd, 99 yds, RoH), Don Perkins (RoH), Herschel Walker
FB: Daryl Johnston (RoH)
WR: Michael Irvin (RoH), "Bullet" Bob Hayes (RoH), Drew Pearson, Tony Hill, Frank Clark
TE: Jason Witten, Jay Novacek (RoH)
LT: Flozell Adams (really couldn't think of anyone better to put in here) Mark Tuinei <-- he's good, how about Blaine Nye?
LG: Larry Allen (RoH), Nate Newton
C: Mark Stepnoski (RoH), Andre Gurode
RG: John Niland (RoH), Leonard Davis
RT: Rayfield Wright (RoH), Erik Williams

4-3 Defense

DE: Randy White (RoH), Charles Haley
DT: Bob Lilly (<-- "frog stance," Flex defense), 1st draft choice of franchise from TCU, 1960, (RoH)
DT: Leon Lett
DE: Harvey Martin (SB MVP, (RoH), Ed "Too Tall" Jones
OLB: Chuck Howley (SB MVP, (RoH)
MLB: Lee Roy Jordan (RoH)
OLB: DeMarcus Ware
CB: Mel Renfro (RoH)
S: Cliff Harris (RoH)
S: Darren Woodson
CB: Deion Sanders, Herb Adderley (RoH, played vs. Dallas for GB in '67 Ice Bowl)

7DnBrnc53
07-30-2010, 01:31 AM
Here is Denver's All-time team:

Offense

QB: Elway, Jake Plummer, Craig Morton
HB: TD, Floyd Little, Clinton Portis
FB: Howard Griffith
WR1: Brandon Marshall, Lionel Taylor, Haven Moses
WR2: Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Anthony Miller
TE: Shannon Sharpe, Riley Odoms, Clarence Kay
LT: Gary Zimmerman, Ryan Clady
LG: Mark Schlereth
C: Tom Nalen, Bill Bryan
RG: Keith Bishop, Chris Kuper
RT: Tony Jones, Ryan Harris
K: Jason Elam
Return Man: Rick Upchurch

Defense(I set it up to have 3-4 and 4-3 personnel)

DE: Rich "Tombstone" Jackson, Lyle Alzado, Paul Smith
NT/DT: Rubin Carter, Greg Kragen
DT: Trevor Pryce, Bud McFadin
DE/OLB/Pass rush specialist: Simon Fletcher, Elvis Dumervil, Rulon Jones
OLB: Tom Jackson, John Mobley
MLB: Randy Gradishar, Al Wilson
LB: Karl Mecklenburg, Bob Swenson
CB: Champ Bailey, Willie Brown
CB: Louis Wright, Ray Crockett, Tyrone Braxton
FS: Steve Atwater, Bill Thompson
SS: Dennis Smith, John Lynch
P: Billy Van Heusen

BigDawg819
07-30-2010, 07:39 AM
Here is Denver's All-time team:

Offense

QB: Elway, Jake Plummer, Craig Morton
HB: TD, Floyd Little, Clinton Portis
FB: Howard Griffith
WR1: Brandon Marshall, Lionel Taylor, Haven Moses
WR2: Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Anthony Miller
TE: Shannon Sharpe, Riley Odoms, Clarence Kay
LT: Gary Zimmerman, Ryan Clady
LG: Mark Schlereth
C: Tom Nalen, Bill Bryan
RG: Keith Bishop, Chris Kuper
RT: Tony Jones, Ryan Harris
K: Jason Elam
Return Man: Rick Upchurch

Defense(I set it up to have 3-4 and 4-3 personnel)

DE: Rich "Tombstone" Jackson, Lyle Alzado, Paul Smith
NT/DT: Rubin Carter, Greg Kragen
DT: Trevor Pryce, Bud McFadin
DE/OLB/Pass rush specialist: Simon Fletcher, Elvis Dumervil, Rulon Jones
OLB: Tom Jackson, John Mobley
MLB: Randy Gradishar, Al Wilson
LB: Karl Mecklenburg, Bob Swenson
CB: Champ Bailey, Willie Brown
CB: Louis Wright, Ray Crockett, Tyrone Braxton
FS: Steve Atwater, Bill Thompson
SS: Dennis Smith, John Lynch
P: Billy Van Heusen

Jake Plummer ahead of Craig Morton??????? Seriously??????

Dam8610
07-30-2010, 12:18 PM
The only thing that prevents me from putting up a Colts roster: Who do you start at QB? Putting either of the obvious candidates in front of the other is at least somewhat of an insult to the one you pick for 2nd string.

yourfavestoner
07-30-2010, 12:55 PM
The only thing that prevents me from putting up a Colts roster: Who do you start at QB? Putting either of the obvious candidates in front of the other is at least somewhat of an insult to the one you pick for 2nd string.

Woah, woah, woah. How is this even a question? Unitas is 1a/1b with Montana as the G.O.A.T. of the entire league at the QB position, so how could you not put him as the starter for your own team?

Unitas was Manning before Manning. He pioneered everything that Manning is known for: calling his own plays, audibling at the line, and running the two minute drill. And did so in an era that was, um, not conducive to passing success.

He's also got the equivalent to DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak: 47 games with at least one touchdown pass. Nobody will ever come close to breaking that record. Most guys can't make it through 47 games consecutively, let alone have 47 games straight with a TD pass.

I've got little doubt that Unitas could play in today's era, as he's the guy who essentially invented it. On the other hand, I can't really seeing a guy petrified of contact like Peyton playing in an era where his offensive line couldn't use their hands to block, DBs could mug his receivers up and down the field, and there were no rules as to when or how violently or how often you could hit the quarterback.

wonderbredd24
07-30-2010, 04:40 PM
Johnny U is top 5 all time... Manning isn't.

Mr.Regular
07-30-2010, 06:11 PM
Unitas is one of the top NFL players ever. I have no problem putting him in the conversation for best QB of all time. As YFS said, he was Peyton Manning before Peyton Manning existed, in an era where passing the ball was very difficult.
Manning is amazing, but Unitas is probably the Colts best player ever.

yourfavestoner
07-30-2010, 06:27 PM
The more I think about it, it actually is insulting to Unitas to contemplate putting Manning over him.

Manning will go down if he knows a defender has an inempeded path to him. Just think about that. QBs got hit (violently at that) on damn near every passing play back then because offensive linemen couldn't use their hands, and defensive linemen could use the headslap.

Brent
07-31-2010, 12:41 AM
The more I think about it, it actually is insulting to Unitas to contemplate putting Manning over him.
http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/johnny-unitas1.jpg

Johnny U. used to say that he was a Baltimore fan before he was a Colts fan. Hell, remember when he said he wanted Chris Redman to succeed in Baltimore? The dude was a Baltimore Ravens fan.

Dam8610
07-31-2010, 05:54 PM
Woah, woah, woah. How is this even a question? Unitas is 1a/1b with Montana as the G.O.A.T. of the entire league at the QB position, so how could you not put him as the starter for your own team?

Unitas was Manning before Manning. He pioneered everything that Manning is known for: calling his own plays, audibling at the line, and running the two minute drill. And did so in an era that was, um, not conducive to passing success.

He's also got the equivalent to DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak: 47 games with at least one touchdown pass. Nobody will ever come close to breaking that record. Most guys can't make it through 47 games consecutively, let alone have 47 games straight with a TD pass.

I've got little doubt that Unitas could play in today's era, as he's the guy who essentially invented it. On the other hand, I can't really seeing a guy petrified of contact like Peyton playing in an era where his offensive line couldn't use their hands to block, DBs could mug his receivers up and down the field, and there were no rules as to when or how violently or how often you could hit the quarterback.

Glad I waited for the edit here, as there's so much more here to debate. First and most obvious would be your first statement. As of right now, I'd personally have Unitas as the clear cut best QB ever, but Montana nipping at his heels? Hardly, at least not when looking at who he played with and what he did with that. There's a large gap between Unitas and Montana when talking about the best QB ever. So then why did I make the statement I made? Put simply, Peyton Manning probably has at least one third of his career to go. His accomplishments as they stand today:

- 4 time NFL MVP (NFL record)
- 5 time 1st team All Pro (Tied with Unitas for NFL record among QBs)
- 10 time Pro Bowler (one shy of Brett Favre for NFL record among QBs)
- 12 consecutive seasons with 25+ TD passes (Most ever, 2nd is 5 by Marino and Favre)
- 10 seasons with 4,000+ passing yards (Most ever, 2nd is 6 by Marino)
- Only QB ever to lead a decade in passing yardage (42254, NFL Record), TDs (314, NFL record), passer rating (98.2) and wins (115, NFL record) (No other QB in NFL history has led a decade in more than two of these categories)
- Only QB ever to throw for over 40,000 yards and 300 TDs in a single decade (numbers that are usually used as benchmarks for Canton)
- 4th QB in NFL history to reach 50,000 passing yards (currently 50,128), and accomplished the feat in the fewest amount of games ever (191)
- 3rd QB in NFL history to reach 350 TD passes (currently 366), and accomplished the feat in the fewest amount of games ever (185, Tied with Marino)
- 10 double digit win seasons (Tied with Favre for NFL Record)
- Only QB in NFL history to register 8 consecutive double digit win seasons and 7 consecutive 12+ win seasons (7 consecutive 12+ win seasons is NFL record for teams, 92-95 Cowboys with 4 are 2nd)
- Only QB in NFL history to start first 192 games of NFL career (2nd longest QB start streak to Favre's 285)
- 43 4th quarter comebacks (always a somewhat controversial statistic, but I believe this qualifies as an NFL record)
- 4th most wins by QB in NFL history (131, currently 50 shy of Favre's 181)
- Most 300 yard games (8), 3rd most yards (5,168), 6th most TDs (28, Tied with Brady) in NFL postseason history
- Is part of the #1 and #2 all-time QB-WR tandems in completions, #1 and #3 in yardage, and #1 and #6 in TDs all-time. Manning and Wayne need 292 yards and 25 TDs more to become the #2 all-time duo in all categories.
- Holds single season record for passer rating (121.1)
- 2006 World Champion and Super Bowl MVP

And that's in 12 seasons. To put things in perspective, for every 3 seasons Manning has played, he's won MVP once. He reached the benchmarks for Canton worthiness in the span of a decade. He's achieved milestone after milestone that no other QB in NFL history has ever achieved, and he more than likely has several seasons left in him to add on to them. In the 2000s, he achieved a level of positional dominance never seen in the sport before, and personally, that's a big factor in measuring greatness. That's a big part of why Unitas is my best QB ever, when he was at his best, there was no QB that compared to him in the NFL. The other major factor in it is that he was such a huge innovator of the QB position. As for this "Peyton Manning is terrified of contact" theory of yours, where exactly does that come from? He gets the ball off quickly, but that's what any coach will tell you they want from their QB. He also takes a lot of shots after getting the ball off, some pretty brutal (see: Philip Daniels) and he's never missed a game because of any of them. In fact, he's only missed a play in his entire career because of injury, and that was when he had to get his jaw wired shut so he could go back out and finish the game. That's one area where Manning has a distinct advantage over Unitas actually, the fact that he has been able to take the punishment of a 12 year NFL career without missing a game.

Dam8610
07-31-2010, 05:58 PM
Johnny U is top 5 all time... Manning isn't.

Name the 5 you'd place ahead.

wonderbredd24
07-31-2010, 06:13 PM
Name the 5 you'd place ahead.

Joe Montana
John Elway
Otto Graham
Johnny Unitas
Dan Marino

The MVP argument is such garbage... the MVP trophy is incredibly subjective and when you go back and analyze a season, it seems to be wrong more often than not.

Was Manning the MVP this past year? Absolutely not. Drew Brees was.

As for stats... welcome to the modern passing game. There is no question Peyton Manning's achievements are prolific and he will be Canton bound the second he hangs it up, but so many of his records are a product of the era. Johnny Unitas threw for 40,000 yards in a career that stretched from '56-'73. To me, that's a far more impressive achievement when his seasons had 12 or 14 games when the rules were far more liberal.

Johnny Unitas was clutch. Peyton Manning for most of his career has been a choke artist

Paranoidmoonduck
07-31-2010, 06:56 PM
The why rate Marino highly?

BigDawg819
07-31-2010, 07:19 PM
Glad I waited for the edit here, as there's so much more here to debate. First and most obvious would be your first statement. As of right now, I'd personally have Unitas as the clear cut best QB ever, but Montana nipping at his heels? Hardly, at least not when looking at who he played with and what he did with that. There's a large gap between Unitas and Montana when talking about the best QB ever. So then why did I make the statement I made? Put simply, Peyton Manning probably has at least one third of his career to go. His accomplishments as they stand today:

- 4 time NFL MVP (NFL record)
- 5 time 1st team All Pro (Tied with Unitas for NFL record among QBs)
- 10 time Pro Bowler (one shy of Brett Favre for NFL record among QBs)
- 12 consecutive seasons with 25+ TD passes (Most ever, 2nd is 5 by Marino and Favre)
- 10 seasons with 4,000+ passing yards (Most ever, 2nd is 6 by Marino)
- Only QB ever to lead a decade in passing yardage (42254, NFL Record), TDs (314, NFL record), passer rating (98.2) and wins (115, NFL record) (No other QB in NFL history has led a decade in more than two of these categories)
- Only QB ever to throw for over 40,000 yards and 300 TDs in a single decade (numbers that are usually used as benchmarks for Canton)
- 4th QB in NFL history to reach 50,000 passing yards (currently 50,128), and accomplished the feat in the fewest amount of games ever (191)
- 3rd QB in NFL history to reach 350 TD passes (currently 366), and accomplished the feat in the fewest amount of games ever (185, Tied with Marino)
- 10 double digit win seasons (Tied with Favre for NFL Record)
- Only QB in NFL history to register 8 consecutive double digit win seasons and 7 consecutive 12+ win seasons (7 consecutive 12+ win seasons is NFL record for teams, 92-95 Cowboys with 4 are 2nd)
- Only QB in NFL history to start first 192 games of NFL career (2nd longest QB start streak to Favre's 285)
- 43 4th quarter comebacks (always a somewhat controversial statistic, but I believe this qualifies as an NFL record)
- 4th most wins by QB in NFL history (131, currently 50 shy of Favre's 181)
- Most 300 yard games (8), 3rd most yards (5,168), 6th most TDs (28, Tied with Brady) in NFL postseason history
- Is part of the #1 and #2 all-time QB-WR tandems in completions, #1 and #3 in yardage, and #1 and #6 in TDs all-time. Manning and Wayne need 292 yards and 25 TDs more to become the #2 all-time duo in all categories.
- Holds single season record for passer rating (121.1)
- 2006 World Champion and Super Bowl MVP

And that's in 12 seasons. To put things in perspective, for every 3 seasons Manning has played, he's won MVP once. He reached the benchmarks for Canton worthiness in the span of a decade. He's achieved milestone after milestone that no other QB in NFL history has ever achieved, and he more than likely has several seasons left in him to add on to them. In the 2000s, he achieved a level of positional dominance never seen in the sport before, and personally, that's a big factor in measuring greatness. That's a big part of why Unitas is my best QB ever, when he was at his best, there was no QB that compared to him in the NFL. The other major factor in it is that he was such a huge innovator of the QB position. As for this "Peyton Manning is terrified of contact" theory of yours, where exactly does that come from? He gets the ball off quickly, but that's what any coach will tell you they want from their QB. He also takes a lot of shots after getting the ball off, some pretty brutal (see: Philip Daniels) and he's never missed a game because of any of them. In fact, he's only missed a play in his entire career because of injury, and that was when he had to get his jaw wired shut so he could go back out and finish the game. That's one area where Manning has a distinct advantage over Unitas actually, the fact that he has been able to take the punishment of a 12 year NFL career without missing a game.

Manning has stats because the game is about offense now, and it wasn't back in Unitas' era. Nothing you have stated mentions the rules being changed in favor of the offense because you know or at least should know that Peyton as much as any QB has benefitted from them. He has none of those numbers in previous era's, nor would he be in any discussion of elite QB's. Johnny would start and Peyton would be #2 and even he should know that.

wonderbredd24
07-31-2010, 07:26 PM
The why rate Marino highly?

Peyton Manning will have likely played with several Hall of Famers throughout his career. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark will all have a shot to get in... Harrison is a mortal lock.

Dan Marino played with... the Marks brothers and... Richmond Webb? Yay? Did he ever have a teammate on offense that is a Hall of Famer? And he was completely boned out of ever getting the benefit of a good running game. Peyton Manning had Edgerrin James and now he has Joseph Addai/Donald Brown, while Marino got the Kareem Abul-Jabbars and Cecil Collins of the world.

On top of that, the rules were far more slanted against offenses when Marino played. There was no illegal contact rule. They didn't protect the QB nearly as much as now.

And then to top it off, Marino played at the same time as some incredible teams... the 49ers, the Giants, the '85 Bears defense which he beat, the Cowboys dynasty, etc.

Dam8610
07-31-2010, 07:35 PM
Joe Montana
John Elway
Otto Graham
Johnny Unitas
Dan Marino

Montana? Really? Manning has more of everything but championships (team accomplishment) than him, and for career defining moments, I'd say Manning's 2006 AFC Championship Game rivals Montana's Super Bowl XXIII.

Elway? Manning is a far more productive QB, and he won a championship with the type of team Elway would've been slaughtered with. In fact Manning's lone championship was won with the worst ranked defense to ever win a championship, which somewhat summarizes his career.

Graham? Yes, he was on a lot of teams that went to or won championships, but 4 of those weren't even in the NFL, and when he was in the NFL, he threw for more interceptions than TDs half the time. I can see you place a lot of value on team accomplishments when evaluating QBs.

Unitas I'll accept.

Marino? Statistically, Manning has been just as good, if not better than Marino throughout his career, except his teams have won more consistently and he has the one thing Marino lacks.

The MVP argument is such garbage... the MVP trophy is incredibly subjective and when you go back and analyze a season, it seems to be wrong more often than not.

If the first sentence isn't subjective opinion, then the second definitely is. Regardless, to win the award 4 times, more than any other player in NFL history, Manning has to be doing something right.

Was Manning the MVP this past year? Absolutely not. Drew Brees was.

More subjective opinion, and I think the NFL record 7 4th quarter comebacks Manning produced in 2009 were probably a big factor in why the voters chose Manning over Brees despite Brees's slightly better numbers.

As for stats... welcome to the modern passing game. There is no question Peyton Manning's achievements are prolific and he will be Canton bound the second he hangs it up, but so many of his records are a product of the era. Johnny Unitas threw for 40,000 yards in a career that stretched from '56-'73. To me, that's a far more impressive achievement when his seasons had 12 or 14 games when the rules were far more liberal.

Yes, but the thing about the modern passing game is that the greats still dominate the stat sheet (for all the favorable rules, the Akili Smith's and David Carr's of the world still don't put up good numbers). The most QBs to ever pass for 4000 yards in a single season were 10 last year, prior to that the record was 7 in 2007. Manning has passed for 4000+ yards in 10 of his 12 seasons. Manning's 12 consecutive seasons with 25+ TD more than double the nearest competitor in this category. It's not like he's playing under more favorable rules than Marino or anyone who's played since, defensive holding was introduced in 1984. Again, Manning passed for over 40,000 yards and 300 TDs in 10 years, favorable passing rules or not, that's an impressive feat considering those are generally considered career benchmarks for Canton, and even to this day, even under more favorable passing rules that have existed for 25+ years now, only 11 QBs have passed for 40,000 yards in a career, only 5 QBs have passed for 300 TDs in a career, and only 5 QBs have done both in NFL history. Manning did both in a decade. This is also where the 4 time MVP, 5 time 1st team All-Pro, and 10 time Pro Bowler points come up. If Manning was merely a product of his era, not only would he not be as high on the all-time leaderboards as he is, but he also wouldn't have any of those accolades. Two of those are NFL records, one is one shy of the NFL record, and he's got several seasons to add to all of it.

Johnny Unitas was clutch. Peyton Manning for most of his career has been a choke artist

This is the most ridiculous argument you've made yet. Manning has 43 career 4th quarter comebacks, or about 1 4th quarter comeback for every 3 career wins he has (also 12 more career 4th quarter comebacks than Unitas), but you're right, he's clearly a choke artist. It's funny how misguided perceptions can become.

wonderbredd24
07-31-2010, 07:49 PM
Hey, it's the 4th quarter comeback stat... yet another fun product of the crazy offensive NFL we now live in.

Hey, we're down 38-35 and Peyton Manning leads the Colts to score 15 seconds into the 4th quarter making it 42-38. Chaulk it up as another 4th quarter comeback.

In an era when offenses are running up and down the field constantly, 4th quarter comeback stats are going to be inflated.

******** down his leg in the playoffs is hardly something alien for Peyton Manning as illustrated in 2002 with his 31.2 QB rating. Hell, the year he finally won the Superbowl, his playoff rating was a spectacular 70.5. Color me impressed.

Unitas led the Colts to back to back titles and their 1st Superbowl. They would have won 2 if Shula would have let Unitas play all of Superbowl III.

But you're right, those 4th quarter comebacks are more important than throwing away the Superbowl to Tracy Porter

Joe Montana never threw an INT in the Superbowl... Manning? Well... ouch. He won 4 Superbowls and led the Chiefs to the AFC Championship. Peyton Manning knows better than to try to make this argument.

John Elway led garbage teams to 3 Superbowls and then won back to back Superbowls. Elway is one of the best of all time and I ******* hate John Elway. Peyton Manning over Elway? Seriously?

Otto Graham won 7 championships. The AAFC was playing a better quality of football than the NFL as illustrated by the Browns coming into the NFL in 1950 and mudhole stomping the league. The Eagles were a 2 TD favorite the first game of the season and the Browns shut them down and shut them out in one of the biggest upsets in NFL history. Graham won a Football Championship and Basketball Championship with Rochester in the same year. He's automatic Otto for a reason.

Dam8610
07-31-2010, 07:52 PM
Manning has stats because the game is about offense now, and it wasn't back in Unitas' era. Nothing you have stated mentions the rules being changed in favor of the offense because you know or at least should know that Peyton as much as any QB has benefitted from them. He has none of those numbers in previous era's, nor would he be in any discussion of elite QB's. Johnny would start and Peyton would be #2 and even he should know that.

See, this I don't agree with at all. If you read the post, you'd see the mention I made about era dominance. This is obviously hard to quantify, but fortunately, someone (that being the people at Pro Football Reference) has at least started trying to do it.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

Take a look at the "Advanced Passing" chart. It basically takes the performance of a QB and compares it to the performance of the average QB during that timespan, where 100 is average. On Manning's chart over his career, you can see all but 1 category is between 116-122. Obviously, this doesn't necessarily translate over era or rules changes, but it does show that in this era, he's been exceptionally above average, which IMO suggests that he in fact would be at least fairly successful in just about any era.

wonderbredd24
07-31-2010, 07:55 PM
See, this I don't agree with at all. If you read the post, you'd see the mention I made about era dominance. This is obviously hard to quantify, but fortunately, someone (that being the people at Pro Football Reference) has at least started trying to do it.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

Take a look at the "Advanced Passing" chart. It basically takes the performance of a QB and compares it to the performance of the average QB during that timespan, where 100 is average. On Manning's chart over his career, you can see all but 1 category is between 116-122. Obviously, this doesn't necessarily translate over era or rules changes, but it does show that in this era, he's been exceptionally above average, which IMO suggests that he in fact would be at least fairly successful in just about any era.

He's a Hall of Famer. He's far above average, but he's not in the top 5 greatest QBs of all time.

Hell, Johnny Unitas was playing safety and returning kicks at Louisville in addition to being their QB. All Manning did other than play QB was lose to Florida.

BigDawg819
07-31-2010, 08:05 PM
He's a Hall of Famer. He's far above average, but he's not in the top 5 greatest QBs of all time.

Hell, Johnny Unitas was playing safety and returning kicks at Louisville in addition to being their QB. All Manning did other than play QB was lose to Florida.

He can't see past the homerism. Typical "what have you done for me lately" mentality, no respect for the past because he never saw it.

Ravens1991
07-31-2010, 08:07 PM
All this talk makes me wish that Irsay could have at least left the records in Baltimore.

7DnBrnc53
08-01-2010, 02:11 AM
Quote "Elway? Manning is a far more productive QB, and he won a championship with the type of team Elway would've been slaughtered with. In fact Manning's lone championship was won with the worst ranked defense to ever win a championship, which somewhat summarizes his career."Quote

What makes you say that Elway would have gotten slaughtered in a SB with the 06 Colts? They had a lot more offensive weapons than Elway's 80's teams.

TimD
08-01-2010, 09:59 AM
J-E-T-S, JETS JETS JETS!

QB- Joe Namath, Ken O'Brien, Chad Pennington, Vinny Testaverde
http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/namath-farrah.jpg
RB- Curtis Martin, Freeman McNeil, Emerson Boozer
FB- Matt Snell, Richie Anderson, Tony Richardson
WR- Don Maynard, Keyshawn Johnson, Wayne Cherbet, Al Toon, Laveraneus Coles
TE- Micky Shuler, Rich Caster, Jerome Barkum
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/72/slideshow_7297/display_image.jpg
OT- Winston Hill, Marvin Powell, D'Brickashaw Ferguson
OG- Randy Rasmussen, John Schmidt, umm Brandon Moore?
C- Kevin Mawae, Joe Fields, Nick Mangold

DT- Joe Klecko, John Elliot, Marty Lyons, Jason Ferguson
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/73/slideshow_7307/display_image.jpg
DE- Mark Gastineau, John Abraham, Shaun Ellis, Gary Phibin, Marvin Washington
LB- Mo Lewis, Kyle Clifton, Marvin Jones, Larry Grantham, David Harris, Al Atkinson
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/73/slideshow_7310/display_image.jpg
CB- Darrelle Revis, Aaron Glenn, James Hasty, Marcus Coleman
S- Bill Baird, Erik McMillan, Dainard Paulson, Victor Green

K- Pat Leahy, James Hall
KR- Leon Washington

bam bam
08-01-2010, 05:48 PM
Johnny U = Baltimore

Johnny U sleeps with a pillow under his gun, and he uses Peyton manning as his blanket.

Dam8610
08-02-2010, 06:13 PM
Hey, it's the 4th quarter comeback stat... yet another fun product of the crazy offensive NFL we now live in.

Hey, we're down 38-35 and Peyton Manning leads the Colts to score 15 seconds into the 4th quarter making it 42-38. Chaulk it up as another 4th quarter comeback.

In an era when offenses are running up and down the field constantly, 4th quarter comeback stats are going to be inflated.

If this is really the case, then please show me the David Carrs, Michael Vicks, and Akili Smiths of the world that are making it to the levels of the all-time greats. You can't? That's because mediocrity doesn't cut it, even in "the crazy offensive NFL we now live in", that has been pretty much the same for the past 25 years.

******** down his leg in the playoffs is hardly something alien for Peyton Manning as illustrated in 2002 with his 31.2 QB rating. Hell, the year he finally won the Superbowl, his playoff rating was a spectacular 70.5. Color me impressed.

You're really citing one game as your evidence? How do you explain the 158.3 in 2003, then? As for the Super Bowl run, if you go beyond the numbers and actually watch the games, the impact Peyton Manning had is very clear. Hell, it can be argued that his career defining moment to this point happened during that run.

Unitas led the Colts to back to back titles and their 1st Superbowl. They would have won 2 if Shula would have let Unitas play all of Superbowl III.

You have trouble with the concept of distinguishing team accomplishments from individual performance, don't you? Apparently you also have trouble with the concept of injury. Shula was supposed to take out his MVP winning QB to play a guy who'd been injured all year and had only thrown 32 passes? I understand it's Unitas, but think about how little sense that makes.

But you're right, those 4th quarter comebacks are more important than throwing away the Superbowl to Tracy Porter

Yes, because if Manning doesn't throw that INT, the Colts undoubtedly win Super Bowl XLIV...wait, the Colts were down 7 at the time, weren't they? While it shows how highly you regard Manning's ability to lead his team to victory that you call a pick six that was thrown at a point in the game where the best Manning and the offense could have done was tie the game "throwing away the Superbowl", it also shows your ignorance of the situation that you used that phrasing. Manning dropped the onside kick that gave the Saints the great field position and momentum they needed for their first score, missed the field goal that gave them more momentum and great field position for the 2nd score, and allowed the 18 second half points that had the Colts down by 7 at the time, right? After all, if a team loses, it's the quarterback's fault and his alone. :roll:

Joe Montana never threw an INT in the Superbowl... Manning? Well... ouch. He won 4 Superbowls and led the Chiefs to the AFC Championship. Peyton Manning knows better than to try to make this argument.

Again you argue team accomplishments as a sign of superior individual performance. It takes a team to win a championship, not a QB. If all it took was a QB, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, and Dan Marino would have more than 2 combined championships, and Trent Dilfer wouldn't have half as many as those three combined.

John Elway led garbage teams to 3 Superbowls and then won back to back Superbowls. Elway is one of the best of all time and I ******* hate John Elway. Peyton Manning over Elway? Seriously?

Peyton Manning led the team with the worst ranked defense to ever win a championship to a championship. It was the type of team Elway got slaughtered with the first three times, then at the end of his career the Broncos put a team around him, and lo and behold, Elway won two championships.

Otto Graham won 7 championships. The AAFC was playing a better quality of football than the NFL as illustrated by the Browns coming into the NFL in 1950 and mudhole stomping the league. The Eagles were a 2 TD favorite the first game of the season and the Browns shut them down and shut them out in one of the biggest upsets in NFL history. Graham won a Football Championship and Basketball Championship with Rochester in the same year. He's automatic Otto for a reason.

Again, those are team accomplishments, and the basketball thing has absolutely nothing to do with his ability as a QB. As a QB, in his NFL career he threw more INTs than TDs in half of his seasons. The teams he played on may have been great, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on his performance.

He's a Hall of Famer. He's far above average, but he's not in the top 5 greatest QBs of all time.

I'd have to disagree considering all the records he holds in only 12 NFL seasons, and by the end of his career, I'm sure the people who don't agree with me now will.

Hell, Johnny Unitas was playing safety and returning kicks at Louisville in addition to being their QB. All Manning did other than play QB was lose to Florida.

What does any of that have to do with being a great QB in the NFL? If we were arguing greatest football player ever, this might be a valid point, but then Sammy Baugh and Chuck Bednarik would have much more valid arguments.

He can't see past the homerism. Typical "what have you done for me lately" mentality, no respect for the past because he never saw it.

Yes, I clearly don't know about The Greatest Game Ever Played, or that Unitas basically invented the modern QB position, or that Unitas was injured for the vast majority of the 1968 season, or the Blunder Bowl that featured the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team in Cowboys LB Chuck Howley. :roll: