PDA

View Full Version : Prospect of the Day: OLB Von Miller, Texas A&M


Mr. Goosemahn
07-22-2010, 12:39 PM
To see previously discussed prospects, click here.
Jake Locker - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2230943
Cameron Heyward - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41890
Marvin Austin - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41892
Adrian Clayborn - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41919
Anthony Castonzo - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41929
Greg Romeus - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41940


http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c117812/media_center/images/rendered/blog/wysiwyg/Von-Miller.jpg

OLB Von Miller, Texas A&M
6'3 - 240 lbs. - Senior

Highlights!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qoQII6vrPHE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qoQII6vrPHE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yu7wh1VNnEo&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yu7wh1VNnEo&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

A great fit as a 3-4 OLB, IMO.

MidwayMonster31
07-22-2010, 12:53 PM
The speed is there, but he could use several more pass-rushing moves. It also looked like Texas wanted to exploit Miller constantly rushing from the outside of the pocket

descendency
07-22-2010, 01:13 PM
Can't play the run.
Has no power moves.

Great outside speed.
Elite burst off the line.
Elite bend.

I can't see him as more than a SAM linebacker in a 34 defense or maybe only a 3rd down pass rusher. I just think he's that much of a liability against the run and I doubt he can cover.

tenorx
07-22-2010, 01:45 PM
My favourite prospect next year, I believe he will go somewhere at 15-20.

RealityCheck
07-22-2010, 02:56 PM
He surely can produce, but does he have what it takes? I guess we'll see this year.

TACKLE
07-22-2010, 03:15 PM
He surely can produce, but does he have what it takes? I guess we'll see this year.

WtNHuqHWefU

zachsaints52
07-22-2010, 04:20 PM
WtNHuqHWefU

Classic!!!

But this is a guy alot of people say will fall to the Saints in the later part of the draft, so its good to find out more about him.

Mr. Goosemahn
07-22-2010, 05:36 PM
I wanted him to declare last year so the Steelers took him. Now there's no chance we get him.

How does he compare to Larry English? English can be much more powerful right?

will99890
07-22-2010, 08:17 PM
Yea, English plays with better leverage and power but no where near the burst. Comparison is tough, Von Miller = Jason Worilds maybe.

J-Mike88
07-22-2010, 11:29 PM
I wanted him to declare last year so the Steelers took him. Now there's no chance we get him.
Oh I think you'll have a chance at him next year too.

prock
07-22-2010, 11:38 PM
He surely can produce, but does he have what it takes? I guess we'll see this year.

This is one of the most pointless, stupid comments I have seen in awhile lol.

Brent
07-23-2010, 12:31 AM
that Texas highlight does him no justice. we had so few games televised.

we are running a 3-4 this year and he's playing the role of "blitz the QB every play" this year. he's going to get targeted by every offense.

I love me some Von Miller.

Mr. Goosemahn
07-23-2010, 01:03 AM
Oh I think you'll have a chance at him next year too.

Oh, we'll probably get the chance to choose him, but we won't because we took two this year.

Jason Worilds in the second, Thaddeus Gibson in the fourth. Those guys won't be starting anytime soon. Getting Miller in the first next year would simply be overkill, and very unnecessary.

bce
07-23-2010, 05:44 PM
Can't play the run.
Has no power moves.

Great outside speed.
Elite burst off the line.
Elite bend.

I can't see him as more than a SAM linebacker in a 34 defense or maybe only a 3rd down pass rusher. I just think he's that much of a liability against the run and I doubt he can cover.

If he has elite outside speed, elite burst and elite bend hes certainly not going to be playing sam linebacker.

It doesnt really matter if hes a liability in coverage either. Demarcus ware is a liability in coverage.

It doesnt matter if hes weak against the run, which i didnt really see there anyway.

All that matters is that he gets to the qb way more often than anyone else and its not even a close second. Hes a pass rusher and best yet a proven stand up pass rushing linebacker.

All his weaknesses may be true, but they dont even come close to measuring up to his strengths, which you enumerated previous. Since when does it matter if elite pass rushers are great against the run. As long as they get to the qb it doesnt really make any difference.

Because thats what they are paid to do. Not paid to be run stuffers and cover people. They do those things occasionally. They rush the passer 90% of the time.

AntoinCD
07-24-2010, 03:56 AM
If he has elite outside speed, elite burst and elite bend hes certainly not going to be playing sam linebacker.

It doesnt really matter if hes a liability in coverage either. Demarcus ware is a liability in coverage.

It doesnt matter if hes weak against the run, which i didnt really see there anyway.

All that matters is that he gets to the qb way more often than anyone else and its not even a close second. Hes a pass rusher and best yet a proven stand up pass rushing linebacker.

All his weaknesses may be true, but they dont even come close to measuring up to his strengths, which you enumerated previous. Since when does it matter if elite pass rushers are great against the run. As long as they get to the qb it doesnt really make any difference.

Because thats what they are paid to do. Not paid to be run stuffers and cover people. They do those things occasionally. They rush the passer 90% of the time.

Well that all depends on which 34 system you are going to be playing in. If it is the Cowboys etc as you were saying with Ware then it is fine to just pin your ears back and rush the passer. How Bill Belichick has on numerous occassions passed on undersized pass rushers due to their inability to set the edge in run support. For instance, in the past two drafts many people would assume he would have picked either Everette Brown or Jerry Hughes as the Pats had a problem rushing the passer. But due to their problems against the run he passed on them.

Some teams think a 34 OLB is just an undersized 43 DE while some teams will not select OLBs who are less than 6'3 265 due to what they ask them to do schematically both against the run and in pass coverage. The 34 became successful because a lot of the time offensive lines didnt know who was rushing. If every play you have 3 defensive linemen and two OLBs pass rushing then it becomes predictible.

CLong4Heisman
07-24-2010, 12:19 PM
If he has elite outside speed, elite burst and elite bend hes certainly not going to be playing sam linebacker.

It doesnt really matter if hes a liability in coverage either. Demarcus ware is a liability in coverage.

It doesnt matter if hes weak against the run, which i didnt really see there anyway.

All that matters is that he gets to the qb way more often than anyone else and its not even a close second. Hes a pass rusher and best yet a proven stand up pass rushing linebacker.

All his weaknesses may be true, but they dont even come close to measuring up to his strengths, which you enumerated previous. Since when does it matter if elite pass rushers are great against the run. As long as they get to the qb it doesnt really make any difference.

Because thats what they are paid to do. Not paid to be run stuffers and cover people. They do those things occasionally. They rush the passer 90% of the time.

It does matter if he's a liability against the run. A guy like him would be exploited against a power running team like the Jets or Ravens. That's what makes DeMarcus Ware such a great player, he can hold his own against the run and of course get after the passer.
I like him at the later part of the 1st round, like 20th-25th range

descendency
07-24-2010, 03:49 PM
He's not even that polished of a pass rusher. His only rush move is his speed rush and he uses poor leverage. He's purely a work in progress.

I could see him going a lot lower than people on this forum simply because he won't be able to succeed in the NFL with poor leverage and only a speed rush.

bce
07-24-2010, 09:12 PM
Where he goes is immaterial. he has the gift, dont pass on guys who have the gift. There just arent that many of them and if you want to play good defense in the nfl, better have one for sure, and best yet to have 2 of them.

He only displayed the speed rush etc in that short video. Theres plenty of tape of spin moves and bull rushes out there. As far as pass rush moves go, theres no one in the college game that displays more, not even close. You just have to watch more than that albeit excellent spot shadow technology video, a video which i originally posted about 2 months ago. Its also a video of strengths and weaknesses, its not a "highlight video"

thenewfeature06
07-24-2010, 09:27 PM
I think at best we see something like Calvin Pace and at worst Vernon Ghoslton.. just my instinct after those videos..hard to tell how he is against the run, and may need some more moves.

Brent
07-24-2010, 09:44 PM
after those videos
I'll be the first to admit that I am biased toward Von, being that I am an A&M grad, but our lack of success it a reason why there is not more film on him.

This year is going to be HUGE for him. He'll be an OLB in a 3-4 and might make his stock soar.

bce
07-24-2010, 09:44 PM
You just cant teach this stuff. No pass rush moves? heres some inside moves, some spin moves, a little dusting of russel okung, to go along with what you really cant teach, the flat out ability to just beat guys off the edge. Theres no one even remotely close in college.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu7wh1VNnEo

bce
07-24-2010, 09:49 PM
dont see anything like this from robert quinn.

cajuncorey
07-24-2010, 11:23 PM
true bce... von miller is going to be a good 3-4 olb hes a sack machine

derza222
07-25-2010, 12:54 AM
I think at best we see something like Calvin Pace and at worst Vernon Ghoslton.. just my instinct after those videos..hard to tell how he is against the run, and may need some more moves.

To be honest I don't see either of those comparisons. Pace and Gholston are both huge guys and I don't see Miller being nearly as stiff as Gholston which was his main problem. Granted I haven't seen a ton of him, but the little I've seen is enough that the worst case of Gholston is off in terms of style and unfair (Gholston's worst case is like the ultimate worst case scenario, he hasn't been all that much more productive than any of us would've been given the same play time). Miller's actually kind of unique when trying to come up with an NFL comparison, I don't think I can come up with a good one right now to be perfectly honest so I can't be too critical, but I just wanted to comment on those comparisons.

FUNBUNCHER
07-25-2010, 05:35 AM
I hope he's really 6'3, 240#, because watching his tape he looks like safety coming on a blitz because of his quickness and pursuit.
Athletically, he looks a lot smaller.

He's more than a straight line speed rusher IMO. The kid can explode from a 2 or 3 point, and redirect in full stride to undercut across a blocker's face. His lateral movement is sick for a pass rusher.
He needs to put on about 10 pounds of muscle to become a consensus top 12 pick, assuming he can approach the season he had in 2009.

Gotta love a guy who makes it look like he playing against 11 guys who aren't moving.

descendency
07-25-2010, 01:50 PM
I hope he's really 6'3, 240#, because watching his tape he looks like safety coming on a blitz because of his quickness and pursuit.
Athletically, he looks a lot smaller

That's because he plays with such terrible leverage. A guy with his burst and size should cause more havoc than he does.

Jimmy
07-25-2010, 03:36 PM
That's because he plays with such terrible leverage. A guy with his burst and size should cause more havoc than he does.

17 sacks isnt havoc?
dumervil put that up his senior year and look where he is now.

LizardState
07-25-2010, 04:04 PM
17 sacks isnt havoc?
dumervil put that up his senior year and look where he is now.

Leading the nation in sacks in a major BCS conference is nothing to laugh at. My Aggie cousin emailed from Texas saying he's the real deal. I think he is as far as OLBs in the 2011 draft are concerned, he seems the best of the lot so far

phlysac
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
17 sacks isnt havoc?
dumervil put that up his senior year and look where he is now.

or you could say...

17 sacks isnt havoc?
Ameer Ismail put that up his senior year and look where he is now.

phlysac
07-25-2010, 04:21 PM
Leading the nation in sacks in a major BCS conference is nothing to laugh at.

It is more indicative than sack leaders from smaller conferences but still quite inconsistent in its NFL projection.


Major BCS sack leaders (top-3) since 2004...


2004

Ryan Riddle, CAL 14
Mathias Kiwanuka, BC 12
David Pollack, UGA 12


2005

Elvis Dumervil, LOU 17
Willie Evans, MSST 14
Mario Williams, NCST 14


2006

Justin Hickman, UCLA 12
LaMarr Woodley, MICH 12
Mkristo Bruce, WSU 11


2007

Greg Middleton, IND 16
Chris Long, UVA 14
George Selvie, USF 14


2008

Jerry Hughes, TCU 15
Phillip Hunt, HOU 14
Nick Reed, ORE 13


2009

Von Miller, TA&M 17
Brandon Sharpe, TTU 15
Ndamukong Suh, NEB 12

FUNBUNCHER
07-25-2010, 09:11 PM
Guys playing in the Big 12 don't put up 15+ sack seasons; with so many QBs in the shotgun it's nearly impossible to get to them before the ball is released.

What Von Miller did in that conference is a testament to his raw ability to get to the passer.

He has 'unteachable' tools, a necessity for elite pass rushers.

ThePudge
07-25-2010, 09:33 PM
The top three sack artists in the country (statistically) played in the Big 12 against those spreads/shotgun formations. I assure you Brandon Sharpe is no rocket off the edge, though he's a good pass-rusher in his own right. Those shotgun formations tend to use much more play-action so in the end it kind of evens out. Big XII Quarterbacks get sacked plenty...

Out of the nations most sacked teams...( Miller's sacks vs.)

4. Colorado - 44 (2)
21. Kansas - 33 (DNP)
23. Texas - 32 (1.5)
27. Baylor - 31 (0)
27. Texas Tech - 31 (2)

0 vs. Georgia's Boling, 0 vs. Oklahoma's Williams

Padded his stats against a slew of low competition. Good to see he dominated at times, of course, especially when his talent would indicate that he should. Not sure I'd say anything is 'rare' about the guy quite yet, but he's easily one of the most promising 3-4 OLB prospects for the 2011 Draft at this point.

FUNBUNCHER
07-25-2010, 09:48 PM
He seems to make a ton of tackles/plays behind the LOS, which is what I noticed when he flashed across Okung's face against Ok State.

Von seems to have the ability to get into the backfield at will, which can have as much impact as a sack or a QB pressure IMO.

SenorGato
07-26-2010, 12:54 PM
Scary pass rushing potential but needs alot of coaching...he's the Worilds/Harylson/Dumerville of this draft...possibly a late first but I'd guess mid 2nd to early 3rd.

Personally, I prefer the bigger DE/OLBs like Ware, Pace, McGinest, Merriman, and so on....but I see the value and potential in guys like him and he'd be a great compliment to a player like any of the above.

Rosebud
07-26-2010, 07:42 PM
If he has elite outside speed, elite burst and elite bend hes certainly not going to be playing sam linebacker.

It doesnt really matter if hes a liability in coverage either. Demarcus ware is a liability in coverage.

False. That is incorrect.

phlysac
07-27-2010, 05:25 PM
The top three sack artists in the country (statistically) played in the Big 12 against those spreads/shotgun formations. I assure you Brandon Sharpe is no rocket off the edge, though he's a good pass-rusher in his own right. Those shotgun formations tend to use much more play-action so in the end it kind of evens out. Big XII Quarterbacks get sacked plenty...

Out of the nations most sacked teams...( Miller's sacks vs.)

4. Colorado - 44 (2)
21. Kansas - 33 (DNP)
23. Texas - 32 (1.5)
27. Baylor - 31 (0)
27. Texas Tech - 31 (2)

0 vs. Georgia's Boling, 0 vs. Oklahoma's Williams

Padded his stats against a slew of low competition. Good to see he dominated at times, of course, especially when his talent would indicate that he should. Not sure I'd say anything is 'rare' about the guy quite yet, but he's easily one of the most promising 3-4 OLB prospects for the 2011 Draft at this point.

Great analysis

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ThePudge again.

+rep

bce
07-27-2010, 07:55 PM
He seems to make a ton of tackles/plays behind the LOS, which is what I noticed when flashed across Okung's face against Ok State.

Von seems to have the ability to get into the backfield at will, which can have as much impact as a sack or a QB pressure IMO.


Amen brother. Its always nice to see the 6th overall pick grasping nothing but air.

If i recently drafted a qb or already have an elite qb, the cards going up. Its von miller. The amount of times he affects the pocket in a game, ive rarely seen it before in college. You cannot teach what von miller has. And you need von miller types to play consistent good defense in the nfl.

bce
07-27-2010, 07:58 PM
Scary pass rushing potential but needs alot of coaching...he's the Worilds/Harylson/Dumerville of this draft...possibly a late first but I'd guess mid 2nd to early 3rd.

Personally, I prefer the bigger DE/OLBs like Ware, Pace, McGinest, Merriman, and so on....but I see the value and potential in guys like him and he'd be a great compliment to a player like any of the above.

So you dont like james harrison or elvis dumervill or robert mathis? I much prefer them to calvin pace, shawne merriman post steroids. I like thgem equally as much as demarcus ware.

How can you say he "needs a lot of coaching". Look at the moves he has, no other college player has his moves. He probably needs the least coaching, especially as a 3-4 olb, since thats all he does.

BigBanger
09-01-2010, 07:49 PM
Oh I think you'll have a chance at him next year too.
I think they will have multiple chances from the looks of that video.


I tried to watch him last year when he started generating buzz. I never had the chance. From that highlight video, it seems like he simply tries to run around the OT on every single play. It almost looks like he's not even playing a contact sport. Even for a highlight video you would think you would see more than one attribute. That video actually makes him look very bad. I would also say he looks closer to 230 pounds then 240 pounds.

I wont assume he got all his sacks by simply running around poorly athletic college linemen.

FUNBUNCHER
09-01-2010, 08:47 PM
Why engage a blocker if they can't touch you??

Miller is more than just a wide arc outside speed rusher, he has a lot of movement inside too. I like how he uses his hands to keep those big uglies off of him so he can get upfield.

EDIT; Von Miller looks like superman in that Texas highlight tape.

He's the perfect weakside 4-3 OLB, but he really needs to improve his upper body strength for a 34. You can run on him pretty easily.

Right now, he looks like a first rounder to me.

AntoinCD
09-02-2010, 04:07 AM
I've been watching a bit on Von Miller recently and while he looks very impressive at times I cant get too excited about him. For some reason he reminds me of a better Tully Banta-Cain. He will be a good pass rush specialist but im not sure he has what it takes to be a three down player

Morton
09-03-2010, 02:01 PM
He's strictly a situational rusher in a 4-3, or a 3-4 OLB who still needs to demonstrate coverage ability to succeed in that role.

descendency
09-29-2010, 11:44 PM
*cough*

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/HotList/Hot-List.php

katnip
09-30-2010, 12:29 AM
*cough*

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/HotList/Hot-List.php

Yes.. 2 Hurricanes on the Hot list.. Hopefully Bailey keeps it up all year

FUNBUNCHER
09-30-2010, 03:36 AM
What?? He's recovering from an ankle injury.

SenorGato
09-30-2010, 10:38 AM
So you dont like james harrison or elvis dumervill or robert mathis? I much prefer them to calvin pace, shawne merriman post steroids. I like thgem equally as much as demarcus ware.

How can you say he "needs a lot of coaching". Look at the moves he has, no other college player has his moves. He probably needs the least coaching, especially as a 3-4 olb, since thats all he does.

I'm an AFC East guy...we like our 3-4 OLBs with some size. I think the average size of the 3-4 OLBs in the division is 6'3 260...

Calvin Pace = Truf. One of the most underrated players in the league...

will99890
09-30-2010, 12:22 PM
Definitely agree about Calvin Pace being underrated. He might have disappointed early in his career, but he just plays like a man out there. Great bull rush and run stopping ability for a 3-4 backer. Also quicker and more athletic than given credit for. Wouldn't mind having him replace Man Law or Haralson.

That said, Miller needs to get healthy and show the same quickness on the field before he gets round 1 talk. Definitely needs some added bulk and coaching on leverage and hand work. Raw tools are there.

SenorGato
09-30-2010, 02:25 PM
Manny Lawson reminds me alot of Pace tbh...I'd really like for the Jets to sign him to play him across from Pace come next offseason, but I think the Pats will make that move first...if Lawson even hits FA. He screams buy low...even though no one's really buying low on the FA market anymore.

ElectricEye
09-30-2010, 02:25 PM
There's always been something that didn't quite add up with Miller for me. I've seen A&M play several times the past few years, and there's just something about him I don't like. Seems to be more of an athlete than a good DE/OLB at this point. He can be taken out of the play entirely if he's locked on. He's obviously hurt right now, so it's hard to judge him for anything he's doing at the moment, but I probably would not take him with a first rounder at this point. Maybe not even a second rounder, depending on scheme.

SenorGato
09-30-2010, 02:28 PM
There's always been something that didn't quite add up with Miller for me. I've seen A&M play several times the past few years, and there's just something about him I don't like. Seems to be more of an athlete than a good DE/OLB at this point. He can be taken out of the play entirely if he's locked on. He's obviously hurt right now, so it's hard to judge him for anything he's doing at the moment, but I probably would not take him with a first rounder at this point. Maybe not even a second rounder, depending on scheme.

Guys like him don't go in the first. He's not big enough, strong enough, or polished enough yet for that to happen. He should go anywhere from the 2nd to the 4th.

As a pro he should be able to get up to 250 in 3 or so years if he takes it seriously. If he's not a complete n00b he'll get used as a situational pass rusher in his first couple years...maybe build some hype if he lands on a good D.

ElectricEye
09-30-2010, 02:32 PM
That's my scare with him to be honest with you. That he won't be an every down linebacker. He's a terror off the edge when he can slip by someone(and he is pretty slippery) but there's loads of guys like that in the NFL who aren't first round values.

Scheme will be a big thing for him. As a Patriots fan, I don't think he's on my board until the third round. For a scheme similar to Pittsburgh, he would probably be a lot more valuable. He's really the definition of a guy who could go either way for me.

descendency
09-30-2010, 05:00 PM
What?? He's recovering from an ankle injury.

I saw that after seeing how abysmally he's played (and bumping this). Still. I don't think he's a 3rd round prospect.

Pass rushing LB in a 34 or maybe a tampa-2 DE who gets washed out against the run and struggles against OTs with elite foot speed.

He's a nightmare to block off the edge when healthy, though.

A Perfect Score
09-30-2010, 05:07 PM
He reminds me a bit too much of Aaron Maybin for me to be entirely comfortable with him as a Top 15 talent. He does have the burst and pursuit skills to be a premier edge rusher, but he desperately needs to get healthy and exhibit some new pass rush moves before Ill be convinced hes a top tier talent. Right now, there are several OLBs who I have ranked ahead of him.

Saints-Tigers
09-30-2010, 05:52 PM
I think he can play fine in a 4-3 as well, he's fluid and athletic enough, he's more than just a rusher.

I'd love the Saints to add someone so dynamic, especially with how much we like to blitz OLBs.