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View Full Version : Prospect of the Day: DL Allen Bailey, Miami


Mr. Goosemahn
07-24-2010, 02:00 PM
To see previously discussed prospects, click here.
Jake Locker - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2230943
Cameron Heyward - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41890
Marvin Austin - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41892
Adrian Clayborn - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41919
Anthony Castonzo - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41929
Greg Romeus - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41940
Von Miller - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2238637
Mike Pouncey - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41959


http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/caneswatch/files/2010/04/allenbailey.jpg

DL Allen Bailey, Miami
6'4 - 288 lbs. - Senior

Highlights!

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Another guy that I think can be a great 3-4 defensive end. This draft is really rich in 3-4 DE prospects. Big, athletic guy who can play both outside and inside.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-24-2010, 02:14 PM
It's hard to predict Bailey's position. I think it was BBD that mentioned this, but he's built like a massive linebacker. He's doesn't really have the bulk of a defensive tackle (yet) nor is he really much of an edge rusher, but the athleticism is undoubtedly there. He hasn't performed at a very high level in Miami, but someone will take a flyer on him even if he doesn't pull it all together this season.

He's the kind of guy who would play middle guard if such a position existed in today's NFL defenses. Not sure I see a 5-tech in Bailey, I see a guy who'll probably be shifted around a 4-man front like Justin Tuck. The question for me is what kind of weight does this guy naturally play at? If he could loose some pounds, it wouldn't be out of the question to try him as 34 OLB, but I'm not sure he could manage to stay that light.

wicket
07-24-2010, 04:20 PM
in this pace you'll be past all the nice recruits before the end of the month

tenorx
07-24-2010, 04:25 PM
in this pace you'll be past all the nice recruits before the end of the month

That's not a bad thing tbh :) I'd like to see more and more prospects discussed here.

wicket
07-24-2010, 04:43 PM
That's not a bad thing tbh :) I'd like to see more and more prospects discussed here.

thats not the point, he should spread out the good stuff ;)

draftguru151
07-24-2010, 04:44 PM
It's hard to predict Bailey's position. I think it was BBD that mentioned this, but he's built like a massive linebacker. He's doesn't really have the bulk of a defensive tackle (yet) nor is he really much of an edge rusher, but the athleticism is undoubtedly there. He hasn't performed at a very high level in Miami, but someone will take a flyer on him even if he doesn't pull it all together this season.

He's the kind of guy who would play middle guard if such a position existed in today's NFL defenses. Not sure I see a 5-tech in Bailey, I see a guy who'll probably be shifted around a 4-man front like Justin Tuck. The question for me is what kind of weight does this guy naturally play at? If he could loose some pounds, it wouldn't be out of the question to try him as 34 OLB, but I'm not sure he could manage to stay that light.

After his freshman year he got up to 293 and settled at 288 after that, I really don't see him getting any lower than 285. Depending on how much he develops this year (under a significantly better DL coach) I see him being a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DE. If he develops as a pass rusher, I see a 4-3 team taking him earlier than a 3-4 team would, if not 3-4 DE would be his better position.

dannyz
07-24-2010, 05:01 PM
I think Miami Restart their Streak with Bailey. I think he would be a Great 4-3 DE.

descendency
07-24-2010, 05:36 PM
Watching that clip twice the thing I saw over and over and over is he is slow to get out of his stance when the ball is snapped. He's a 1 gap DE playing with 2 gap speed. He has good awareness but I didn't see the pass rush moves. Obviously he has great athleticism.

My concern is that initial burst looks really really bad. He's also struggling to disengage from OL while pass rushing but not while run stopping.

He's too big to play 43 DE in the NFL. He can't chase down QBs from behind (I don't think Riley Skinner is all that fast). I see a 2 gap 34 DE who needs some work on his technique.

OaklandRaider56
07-24-2010, 07:26 PM
Very raw talent, he needs to learn how to use his hands more effectively and come off the ball quicker. I can see a 3-4 or 4-3 team drafting him to play DE.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-24-2010, 07:27 PM
I don't even begin to see the gap control that would suggest Bailey is a classic 5-tech.

Mr.Regular
07-24-2010, 08:05 PM
Man without a position. Lacks true speed and initial burst to be a consistent NFL 4-3 DE it looks like. 34 DE makes the most sense, but no one has seen him play those types of roles yet. He has the athleticism, strength, and shedding ability to find a home in the NFL, but I don't know where. I like Bailey a lot, but he's hard to place at this point.

fenikz
07-24-2010, 08:31 PM
That happens to be highlights of the worst game Miami played last year(defensively)

bce
07-24-2010, 09:14 PM
Just needs to play much better. I dont see great pass rush ability at this point, i do like him as an interior dl. Just needs to display more between the white lines.

cajuncorey
07-24-2010, 11:16 PM
in my opinion i truely find allen bailey as a 3 technique much like tommy harris both are undersized but explosive and thats where allen will find his home

prock
07-25-2010, 06:47 PM
I am not sure on how good he is gonna end up being, since he struggles to produce consistently, but I am in love with this guy. His athleticism has me drooling.

A Perfect Score
07-25-2010, 08:02 PM
I really like the Justin Tuck comparisons. Thats the role I ultimately see him playing. If, like many have said, he develops his pass rush skills to the point where can can play LE in a 4-3, I can see him being a stout run defender who is good for 8 sacks a season and can slip inside on passing downs to an interior positions.

Regardless of where he ultimately ends up, I think hes going to be a beast.

Aloysius
07-25-2010, 11:04 PM
That happens to be highlights of the worst game Miami played last year(defensively)
I watched the bowl game vs. Wisconsin after cutting that clip, and it told pretty much the same story: Bailey's a big, strong d-lineman who can walk back guards and tackles. However, he lacks the explosiveness necessary to run around OTs, and he often struggles to disengage in time to get to the QB.

Personally, I see him as more of a 4-3 DT/3-4 DE. I understand the Tuck comparisons, but Bailey is a guy who'll have to move inside on passing downs, whereas Tuck can be a potent pass-rushing threat both inside and outside.

K Train
07-26-2010, 08:55 AM
im infatuated with him....its ******* crazy to see a DE/DT that could probably play some limited LB. im thinking he could play all over a 43 or 34 line or stand up like brian orakpo and play OLB. he doesnt have the speed to be a full time edge rusher but he can do alot of things and be an asset on the field regardless of what hes asked to do.

Mr. Offseason
07-27-2010, 12:52 PM
Honestly, I am not a Bailey fan. He's an impressive athlete and he's got natural ability to be sure, but I just don't think he's that good of a NFL prospect to be honest. He made some plays in that highlight reel, but when you are blocking a 288 pound DE/DT 'tweener with a TE on some run plays he is inevitably going to make some stops versus the run.

I recently watched him against Wisconsin and he had serious issues against their offensive line, especially versus the run. Heck, Garrett Graham AND Lance Kendricks both managed to block him 1 on 1 and keep him blocked well enough to not effect run plays at all. That is extremely alarming, because as a potential 3-4 DE or 4-3 DE prospect he should toss those guys aside and make a play in the backfield, yet he just stayed blocked. I think he probably needs to improve his hand usage to help improve his ability to disengage, because if he doesn't work on that he is going to have such a minimal impact when he gets to the NFL people are going to think he is a bust. He won't get away with what he seems to have been getting away with in college by just being bigger and stronger than the guy trying to block him (which was definitely the case in this Wake Forest highlight video in my opinion). It will be interesting to see how he does this season, but I really think he has issues versus the run when an able blocker is matched up with him.

hockey619
07-27-2010, 03:02 PM
I agree with Mr. Offseason.

I just dont see it with Bailey right now, as much as i really wanna see it. Id like to see a guy as amazingly versatile and athletic as him become a player because itd be so fun to watch a defense utilize him. but from the video shown there and what little else i saw of him last season (and it really wasnt too much) i just dont see it. maybe he comes around this year, but hes got an awful long ways to come to be a legit player.

he can bull rush well and push a guy back but his hand use to dissengage is poor at best as pointed out before and i didnt see him have any other moves. hes also very slow off the snap, especially on those stunts, and his pursuit of skinner when he scrambled was unenthusiastic at best. He just doesnt look to have it. against the run he seems a little more interested but i just dont see this player blowing up plays making things happen regularly.

hes pretty athletic with a freaky build but if he doesnt show huge strides this season he'll be just a project for rex ryan or someone.

Calvin & Kevin
07-29-2010, 11:07 AM
I absolutely want this guy on the Lions. Team him up with Suh and you have two guys who could be moved around anywhere on the line and exploit matchups, put them outside on run downs, inside on pass downs, or whatever it takes to give the opposing OC and line coach massive headaches. I have the feeling that as long as he shows proper development and production in this upcoming season, his versatility will appeal greatly to Jim Schwartz.

irishbucsfan
07-29-2010, 12:30 PM
A few people already stole my line, but I just wanted to say that if that's his highlight reel I'd hate to see his lowlights. He was the last person off the line at the snap on every single play. I'm no talent evaluator, but he doesn't look like he has crazy athleticism at all. He looks like someone with a DTs strength but strange build. How about just asking him to gain 25 pounds and just stick him at NT in a 4-3.

Hurricanes25
07-29-2010, 12:36 PM
A few people already stole my line, but I just wanted to say that if that's his highlight reel I'd hate to see his lowlights. He was the last person off the line at the snap on every single play. I'm no talent evaluator, but he doesn't look like he has crazy athleticism at all. He looks like someone with a DTs strength but strange build. How about just asking him to gain 25 pounds and just stick him at NT in a 4-3.

NT would be the worst fit for him in the 4-3. If he improves his technique and learns some pass rushing moves, he can be really dangerous playing UT or DE.

irishbucsfan
07-29-2010, 12:43 PM
Yeah NT was a bit rash. But I just see absolutely no burst at all. If I hadn't heard so much about him being some sort of athletic freak I wouldn't have thought he was special at all.

Hurricanes25
07-29-2010, 12:49 PM
Yeah NT was a bit rash. But I just see absolutely no burst at all. If I hadn't heard so much about him being some sort of athletic freak I wouldn't have thought he was special at all.

A lot of people probably agree with you there. He needs to produce this season. But the potential is there which is part of the reason why so many people are in love with him.

irishbucsfan
07-29-2010, 01:08 PM
A lot of people probably agree with you there. He needs to produce this season. But the potential is there which is part of the reason why so many people are in love with him.

What's his ceiling in your opinion? I don't see much more than a middle of the road LE in a 4-3 to be honest.

K Train
07-29-2010, 01:21 PM
i think he could be a stud RDE in a 34...he would probably generate a decent pass rush from that spot too.

by no mean is this a comparison of the player, more so a comparison of the role but i think playing RDE in the steelers D in keisels spot he could excel. keisel is a decent pass rusher, not the fastest guy and not incredible against the run but hes pretty relentless and does get some push in the pocket. i think hes way better suited for that role than he is as an end in a 43, and hes a better 34 end today based on potential than evander hood will be tomorrow

i think the chiefs might be a good fit for him too, i heard the chiefs plan on using dorsey in a ratliff-style NT position. bailey, dorsey, jackson....thats a 34 Dline made of raw steel

SenorGato
07-29-2010, 01:38 PM
i think he could be a stud RDE in a 34...he would probably generate a decent pass rush from that spot too.

by no mean is this a comparison of the player, more so a comparison of the role but i think playing RDE in the steelers D in keisels spot he could excel. keisel is a decent pass rusher, not the fastest guy and not incredible against the run but hes pretty relentless and does get some push in the pocket. i think hes way better suited for that role than he is as an end in a 43, and hes a better 34 end today based on potential than evander hood will be tomorrow

i think the chiefs might be a good fit for him too, i heard the chiefs plan on using dorsey in a ratliff-style NT position. bailey, dorsey, jackson....thats a 34 Dline made of raw steel

I could see that....another guy like that is Shaun Ellis....Bailey is nowhere near as pro ready as Ellis was as a prospect, but I do think Bailey's best upside is in a role similar to guys like Ellis, Keisel, or Trevor Pryce in a 3-4.

Bailey screams Vernon Gholston...funnily enough Gholston is being groomed as Ellis' replacement...I bet Bailey is called a bust really early on in his career.

K Train
07-29-2010, 01:41 PM
keisel also plays LB from time to time, something i would expect a team to do with bailey

Hurricanes25
07-29-2010, 01:51 PM
What's his ceiling in your opinion? I don't see much more than a middle of the road LE in a 4-3 to be honest.

If he learns some pass rush move (a BIG IF) there is no doubt in my mind that he can become a Pro Bowl caliber player. He is a freak physicaly so he has that going for him.

If he doesn't lean any moves, you're probably right, just a middle of the road type player.

descendency
07-29-2010, 05:20 PM
I wouldn't even draft the guy at all until I see some burst off the line.

He was consistently the last person off the line at Miami. That's a 1 way ticket to failure in the NFL.

Rosebud
07-29-2010, 05:34 PM
It's hard to predict Bailey's position. I think it was BBD that mentioned this, but he's built like a massive linebacker. He's doesn't really have the bulk of a defensive tackle (yet) nor is he really much of an edge rusher, but the athleticism is undoubtedly there. He hasn't performed at a very high level in Miami, but someone will take a flyer on him even if he doesn't pull it all together this season.

He's the kind of guy who would play middle guard if such a position existed in today's NFL defenses. Not sure I see a 5-tech in Bailey, I see a guy who'll probably be shifted around a 4-man front like Justin Tuck. The question for me is what kind of weight does this guy naturally play at? If he could loose some pounds, it wouldn't be out of the question to try him as 34 OLB, but I'm not sure he could manage to stay that light.

Why 3-4 OLB, If he can drop that much weight comfortably he could be a dominant ILB in that D. He's certainly got the force to blow up the run and I think he's a better interior pass rusher than edge rusher so he'd be more effective coming on the blitz up the middle. Still I see a 4-3 DT in the mold of Brian Price and Sed Ellis with Bailey. A guy with the athleticism and quicks to be a rushing UT, but with the low CoG and strength to play like a disruptive nose.

etk
07-30-2010, 04:04 PM
Allen Bailey is an athletic freak for good reason: He's a chiseled 6'4 288, runs a 4.7-4.8 40 and has a vertical of almost 40". He's still adjusting to play as a defensive lineman and prior to this year received very poor coaching from Clint Hurtt (our former DL coach). This year's DL coach is Rick Petri who's much more experienced and I expect Bailey to improve his technique and positional awareness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-A6SlfWKPo

In this clip you see his quickness and power off the line. You also see his biggest weaknesses which are his poor hand use in disengaging from his man and his lack of understanding gap control and pursuit angles. Those are things that can easily be fixed with coaching and Bailey is a humble player that's very coachable.

I view him as a top 20 prospect. His ideal position is as a 3-4 DE but he's also capable of setting the edge as a 4-3 LDE or playing as a penetrating DT. He's not in the same league as Adrian Clayborn (top 3 pick) but Bailey is NFL-ready physically with a good amount of upside. People are complaining about his production but he had 11 TFLs and 7 sacks last year. That's pretty good for a guy that got moved around from DT to DE and back on a defense that rotates their linemen a lot. 7 sacks is better than a lot of other prospects that get hyped up on here.

To those who are complaining about "a lack of big plays" on his highlight film....Bailey is a solid consistent player. I'll take a guy who's highlights and lowlights are relatively similar rather than a guy who makes a couple plays and then takes a bunch off. NFL coaches want you to play your assignment and Bailey can do that.

This thread reminds me of the Calais Campbell threads from a couple years ago. "He's only an athlete and he's not as freakish as he's made out to be". "His Senior (lolwut) production wasn't there", etc. Campbell had a pretty decent year for Arizona....no?

BTW the guy above me has a pretty cool sig.

Duffman57
07-30-2010, 06:20 PM
Does anyone see a bit of Luis Castillo in him. Both were athletic freaks (6'3"/6'4" 4.7 40 area) who are good penetrators and great 3-4 DE prospects. The big difference is Castillo's injury problems.

FUNBUNCHER
07-30-2010, 06:23 PM
Will be a better pro than collegian, IMO. Bailey's athletic ability and power are rare for someone his size.

EvilNixon
07-30-2010, 06:48 PM
Man I love that strength, but his burst is terrible. Maybe it can be corrected with coaching as it looks like he has good quickness.

Mr. Offseason
08-03-2010, 12:45 PM
i think he could be a stud RDE in a 34...he would probably generate a decent pass rush from that spot too.

by no mean is this a comparison of the player, more so a comparison of the role but i think playing RDE in the steelers D in keisels spot he could excel. keisel is a decent pass rusher, not the fastest guy and not incredible against the run but hes pretty relentless and does get some push in the pocket. i think hes way better suited for that role than he is as an end in a 43, and hes a better 34 end today based on potential than evander hood will be tomorrow

i think the chiefs might be a good fit for him too, i heard the chiefs plan on using dorsey in a ratliff-style NT position. bailey, dorsey, jackson....thats a 34 Dline made of raw steel

I think he has the size and strength to play 3-4 DE, but if he can't shed blocks from TE's then he has a long way to go if he is going to be able to beat 1 on 1 blocks consistently as a 3-4 DE, much less blocks when he is double teamed or combo-blocked.

He just has a long ways to go in terms of hand usage and block shedding so I just think he is overrated as of now.

DeathbyStat
08-03-2010, 02:31 PM
Allen Bailey is an athletic freak for good reason: He's a chiseled 6'4 288, runs a 4.7-4.8 40 and has a vertical of almost 40". He's still adjusting to play as a defensive lineman and prior to this year received very poor coaching from Clint Hurtt (our former DL coach). This year's DL coach is Rick Petri who's much more experienced and I expect Bailey to improve his technique and positional awareness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-A6SlfWKPo

In this clip you see his quickness and power off the line. You also see his biggest weaknesses which are his poor hand use in disengaging from his man and his lack of understanding gap control and pursuit angles. Those are things that can easily be fixed with coaching and Bailey is a humble player that's very coachable.

I view him as a top 20 prospect. His ideal position is as a 3-4 DE but he's also capable of setting the edge as a 4-3 LDE or playing as a penetrating DT. He's not in the same league as Adrian Clayborn (top 3 pick) but Bailey is NFL-ready physically with a good amount of upside. People are complaining about his production but he had 11 TFLs and 7 sacks last year. That's pretty good for a guy that got moved around from DT to DE and back on a defense that rotates their linemen a lot. 7 sacks is better than a lot of other prospects that get hyped up on here.

To those who are complaining about "a lack of big plays" on his highlight film....Bailey is a solid consistent player. I'll take a guy who's highlights and lowlights are relatively similar rather than a guy who makes a couple plays and then takes a bunch off. NFL coaches want you to play your assignment and Bailey can do that.

This thread reminds me of the Calais Campbell threads from a couple years ago. "He's only an athlete and he's not as freakish as he's made out to be". "His Senior (lolwut) production wasn't there", etc. Campbell had a pretty decent year for Arizona....no?

BTW the guy above me has a pretty cool sig.

That what I see him as, a 3-4 DE

etk
08-04-2010, 03:43 PM
I think he has the size and strength to play 3-4 DE, but if he can't shed blocks from TE's then he has a long way to go if he is going to be able to beat 1 on 1 blocks consistently as a 3-4 DE, much less blocks when he is double teamed or combo-blocked.

He just has a long ways to go in terms of hand usage and block shedding so I just think he is overrated as of now.

Your analysis is on point but you have to remember that the point of the draft isn't to take finished projects. DL coaches would love to get a guy like Bailey who's powerful, athletic and coachable. His lack of technique will keep him from proving himself as a top 10 pick but don't act like he'll never have good hand use just because Clint Hurtt is incapable of teaching it to him.

bigbluedefense
08-04-2010, 05:02 PM
I remember when Calais Campbell fell in the draft bc Miami's terrible coaching was unable to harness his impressive athletic ability.

After learning for a year in the NFL, he went on to be a beast his sophomore year, and now is a PB caliber 3-4 End entering this year.

Allen Bailey is twice the athlete Campbell was. With good coaching and patience, he can become a good player.

A lot of Miami defenders had knocks on them, then went on to be beasts in the NFL. Beason, Campbell, Merriweather, Kenny Phillips will be one if he recovers from his career threatening injury.

Even guys who were nobodies in college, like Bruce Johnson are winding up being much better pros than college players. It leads me to believe that Miami is just doing a terrible job of coaching up their talent.

All these guys are coming to the NFL and outplaying their draft slot after some good coaching. That can't be coincidence.

BamaFalcon59
08-04-2010, 05:41 PM
Allen Bailey is twice the athlete Campbell was. With good coaching and patience, he can become a good player.


Not so fast. Before the combine (where Campbell ran a 5.0 I believe), and really before his senior year, Campbell was viewed as next in line as far as freak defensive end prospects, being compared to Mario Williams and Jamaal Anderson.

Let's see how things play out.

K Train
08-04-2010, 06:01 PM
when campbell came out he fell because no one could place him...just like no one can place bailey

he could have lost 15 pounds and moved to 43DE, he could have gained 20 pounds and been drafted as a 34 NT or stay as he was and play all over a 43 line or 34 DE, he found a home at 34DE with dockett and in 2 years thats gonna be the best 3 man line in the league with dan williams as a disruptive NT.

their situations are pretty similar....but i do think bailey is the much more intriguing athlete of the two.

A Perfect Score
08-04-2010, 06:07 PM
There is no way in hell Campbell was ever in contention to play NT.

bigbluedefense
08-04-2010, 06:12 PM
Campbell was never slotted as a potential NT, but he was considered a special athlete prior to his senior year, that part is true.

I remember he was supposed to be a top 10 pick, but he wet the bed his senior year and had a bad combine, and fell bc of it.

Having that said, Campbell still was not the athlete Bailey is. Campbell was kind of lanky in college, he did a good job filling out his frame in the NFL and it helped make him a stud 3-4 End.

I don't know how effective he'd be in a 4-3. He's not quick enough to be an End, and is too long to be a UT, although I think he can still pull off being a UT.

Remember Jamal Anderson. The guy has been a complete bust in a 4-3, and he's awfully similar to Campbell. Anderson is built to be a 3-4 End, but he's being wasted in a 4-3 in Atlanta. Campbell would have an Anderson like career in a 4-3.

I still haven't figured out where Bailey belongs. My gut tells me 3-4 End right now, but I can't say for sure.

K Train
08-04-2010, 06:22 PM
i remember a few reports about him maybe playing nose, not that i bought into it but i think even scotts said something of the sorts. anyway i agree with the jamaal anderson thing, i was on board with the steelers trading for anderson this past offseason because i think hed be a perfect fit and could maybe resurrect his career in a 34.

i think bailey will test off the charts at the combine, something campbell didnt really do...another reason he slid a bit. campbell was considered a huge risk and he fell because of it, i thought anderson was a bigger risk and he went 6th....so who knows where a risky pick like bailey will end up

K Train
08-05-2010, 08:10 AM
this is just kind of funny to look back at i was browsing for a campbell scouting report and found this thread

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16252&highlight=calais+campbell

some posts from back then are just hilarious in hindsight

Mr. Offseason
08-05-2010, 10:25 AM
Your analysis is on point but you have to remember that the point of the draft isn't to take finished projects. DL coaches would love to get a guy like Bailey who's powerful, athletic and coachable. His lack of technique will keep him from proving himself as a top 10 pick but don't act like he'll never have good hand use just because Clint Hurtt is incapable of teaching it to him.

True but my point is that a lot of people (or at least some that I have seen) are totally sold on him and think that he is ready to be a 1st round pick and that he can contribute immediately. But if he can't shed blocks then I certainly don't think that he will be able to do that. That was my point.

I don't recall what kind of burst Calais Campbell had/has off the line of scrimmage, but Bailey can't have much better burst. I could definitely see Bailey becoming a quality pro after a year or so of development like Campbell, but I don't think he's a top 20 talent or anything if that's the case.

I'm not the biggest fan of Bailey, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that he can and will improve once he gets to the NFL to get NFL caliber coaching. But to me he is a little bit of a boom or bust pick because of some of his flaws, and if he can improve on some of those or even correct them then he could be really good. But if he doesn't then he is a waste of a late 1st or a 2nd round pick. I'm not wild about those kinds of players.

Saints-Tigers
08-05-2010, 11:17 AM
I like Bailey as a 4-3 tackle. He is just so damn powerful to have that type of athletic ability moving around.

FloridaFootball1
08-05-2010, 11:25 AM
I remember when Calais Campbell fell in the draft bc Miami's terrible coaching was unable to harness his impressive athletic ability.

After learning for a year in the NFL, he went on to be a beast his sophomore year, and now is a PB caliber 3-4 End entering this year.

Allen Bailey is twice the athlete Campbell was. With good coaching and patience, he can become a good player.

A lot of Miami defenders had knocks on them, then went on to be beasts in the NFL. Beason, Campbell, Merriweather, Kenny Phillips will be one if he recovers from his career threatening injury.

Even guys who were nobodies in college, like Bruce Johnson are winding up being much better pros than college players. It leads me to believe that Miami is just doing a terrible job of coaching up their talent.

All these guys are coming to the NFL and outplaying their draft slot after some good coaching. That can't be coincidence.

Merriweather fell due to character concerns and the rest of the guys went where they should have, no real knocks on them, with how many guys from Miami work out in the NFL it sounds like more to me that they coached them well.

draftguru151
08-05-2010, 11:42 AM
I remember when Calais Campbell fell in the draft bc Miami's terrible coaching was unable to harness his impressive athletic ability.

After learning for a year in the NFL, he went on to be a beast his sophomore year, and now is a PB caliber 3-4 End entering this year.

Allen Bailey is twice the athlete Campbell was. With good coaching and patience, he can become a good player.

A lot of Miami defenders had knocks on them, then went on to be beasts in the NFL. Beason, Campbell, Merriweather, Kenny Phillips will be one if he recovers from his career threatening injury.

Even guys who were nobodies in college, like Bruce Johnson are winding up being much better pros than college players. It leads me to believe that Miami is just doing a terrible job of coaching up their talent.

All these guys are coming to the NFL and outplaying their draft slot after some good coaching. That can't be coincidence.

Campbell dominated his sophomore year, his problem wasn't coaching it was he put on a ton of weight and wasn't as good of a pass rusher so his production dropped. He was also playing basically every snap of every game and one of 2 good players on a very poorly talented defense.

And just to comment on how awful a DL coach Clint Hurtt was, the new DL coach told a 2011 recruit (DE Anthony Chickillo) that he already has better hands that every guy on the roster (sad part is he is 100% correct). Chickillo's dad was a stud DL at the U so he has some help, but it's still pretty sad a junior in HS has better technique than 21-22 year olds at a major college program.

etk
08-05-2010, 12:26 PM
I remember when Calais Campbell fell in the draft bc Miami's terrible coaching was unable to harness his impressive athletic ability.

After learning for a year in the NFL, he went on to be a beast his sophomore year, and now is a PB caliber 3-4 End entering this year.

Allen Bailey is twice the athlete Campbell was. With good coaching and patience, he can become a good player.

A lot of Miami defenders had knocks on them, then went on to be beasts in the NFL. Beason, Campbell, Merriweather, Kenny Phillips will be one if he recovers from his career threatening injury.

Even guys who were nobodies in college, like Bruce Johnson are winding up being much better pros than college players. It leads me to believe that Miami is just doing a terrible job of coaching up their talent.

All these guys are coming to the NFL and outplaying their draft slot after some good coaching. That can't be coincidence.

Sad but true. Our players are better pro than college players.

Not so fast. Before the combine (where Campbell ran a 5.0 I believe), and really before his senior year, Campbell was viewed as next in line as far as freak defensive end prospects, being compared to Mario Williams and Jamaal Anderson.

Let's see how things play out.

DG already answered this but Campbell put on a lot of weight before his Junior year and then added another 10 before the draft. He trained with some sleazy agent along with Kentwan Balmer and Bruce Davis and he didn't get proper training for the combine drills. Instead they focused on size and strength. He looked sloppy and out-of-shape at the combine but that wasn't reflective of his play on the field where he was always quick, fast and agile for his size.

when campbell came out he fell because no one could place him...just like no one can place bailey

he could have lost 15 pounds and moved to 43DE, he could have gained 20 pounds and been drafted as a 34 NT or stay as he was and play all over a 43 line or 34 DE, he found a home at 34DE with dockett and in 2 years thats gonna be the best 3 man line in the league with dan williams as a disruptive NT.

their situations are pretty similar....but i do think bailey is the much more intriguing athlete of the two.

Nah....Campbell was a legitimate tweener. He wasn't a good enough pass rusher to line up in a 4-3 at 290 lbs. but he was kinda lanky for a 3-4. I still think his best fit would be as a 270-275 lb. 4-3 LDE. He was nasty as a Soph when he was around 265.

etk
08-05-2010, 12:30 PM
True but my point is that a lot of people (or at least some that I have seen) are totally sold on him and think that he is ready to be a 1st round pick and that he can contribute immediately. But if he can't shed blocks then I certainly don't think that he will be able to do that. That was my point.

I don't recall what kind of burst Calais Campbell had/has off the line of scrimmage, but Bailey can't have much better burst. I could definitely see Bailey becoming a quality pro after a year or so of development like Campbell, but I don't think he's a top 20 talent or anything if that's the case.

I'm not the biggest fan of Bailey, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that he can and will improve once he gets to the NFL to get NFL caliber coaching. But to me he is a little bit of a boom or bust pick because of some of his flaws, and if he can improve on some of those or even correct them then he could be really good. But if he doesn't then he is a waste of a late 1st or a 2nd round pick. I'm not wild about those kinds of players.

I definitely think Bailey is a 1st round talent but I don't think he's an immediate contributor. I think he'll need a pseudo-redshirt year like Campbell but he's already strong enough and powerful enough to play with the big boys.

Campbell had a much better burst and was more agile in college but Bailey is more of a physical run stopper. He won't get many sacks 1on1 with a tackle but he's athletic enough to pressure the QB when a stunt or blitz it called.

Campbell dominated his sophomore year, his problem wasn't coaching it was he put on a ton of weight and wasn't as good of a pass rusher so his production dropped. He was also playing basically every snap of every game and one of 2 good players on a very poorly talented defense.

And just to comment on how awful a DL coach Clint Hurtt was, the new DL coach told a 2011 recruit (DE Anthony Chickillo) that he already has better hands that every guy on the roster (sad part is he is 100% correct). Chickillo's dad was a stud DL at the U so he has some help, but it's still pretty sad a junior in HS has better technique than 21-22 year olds at a major college program.

THISTHISTHIS all of it...

K Train
08-05-2010, 12:34 PM
Campbell is a great athlete, but he cannot play in a 3-4. Not at DE and not at OLB.
from 12-27-2007

dont you hate when players do this lol

etk
08-05-2010, 12:37 PM
from 12-27-2007

dont you hate when players do this lol

Yep...I raged hard when Arizona drafted him because I never thought it would work. He was never great with leverage and anchoring versus the run. I don't know of any other lanky 3-4 linemen but he's done well for himself. Every year the game is revolutionized by new players that break the mold.

chantaniy
04-17-2013, 05:10 AM
hey,
2013 draft class has created so much uncertainty that essentially every player ranking system and every mock draft looks significantly different.There have been adjustments just about everywhere else, as players participated in the NFL combine and completed their pro days.

chantaniy
04-17-2013, 05:24 AM
hey,
2013 draft class has created so much uncertainty that essentially every player ranking system and every mock draft looks significantly different.There have been adjustments just about everywhere else, as players participated in the NFL combine and completed their pro days.