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View Full Version : Elvis Dumervil out indefinitely


Splat
08-05-2010, 11:00 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/news/story?id=5439705

Denver Broncos (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=den) linebacker Elvis Dumervil (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9712) suffered a torn pectoral muscle during Wednesday's practice that will sideline him indefinitely, according to league sources.

Dumervil is expected to miss about four months, which means he might be able to return late this season.
I think this is big enough news to get it's own thread, even as a Chiefs fan I hate to see this happen.

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 11:03 AM
That's a big, big loss for Denver. Who's gonna play in his stead?

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
08-05-2010, 11:05 AM
Damn shortly after his huge deal

Jimmy
08-05-2010, 11:05 AM
Jarvis Moss Ftw!!!!!!!!

edit: still... ****.

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:07 AM
well they gave a one trick pony OLB a huge deal...now they have to live without him and i bet whoever replaces him will have similar production making them realize how ridiculous that deal was.

unless its ayers who replaces him, because ayers sucks

jballa838
08-05-2010, 11:08 AM
I loved him coming out of the draft coming off the edge and he has proved he can do that in the League. he'll be back in december maybe, but I wouldn't risk it. This won't effect his long term explosiveness, and I could see him coming back next year and being a beast again. Big blow for Denver though.

prock
08-05-2010, 11:09 AM
Wow, Denver is ******. This is very unfortunate for Dumerville.

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 11:12 AM
Tebow's going to play 3-4 OLB.

jballa838
08-05-2010, 11:12 AM
well they gave a one trick pony OLB a huge deal...now they have to live without him and i bet whoever replaces him will have similar production making them realize how ridiculous that deal was.

unless its ayers who replaces him, because ayers sucks
I saw his name mentioned above, and I agree with that poster. Jarvis Moss could come in there and put up double digit sacks off the edge. I think they are gonna use Ayers as a 3-4 DE if I recall correctly. But Weakside 3-4 OLB's are supposed to be one trick pony's. in the 3-4 they send the weakside backer nearly every play, then have the SS come up and play curl/flat while the Mike on that side has Hook/Curl. That's basic Cover 3 stuff and with as good of D Backfield Denver had, Dumervil still had to explode off the edge.

Jimmy
08-05-2010, 11:13 AM
ever since plummer and the '05 afc championship game... bleh

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
I saw his name mentioned above, and I agree with that poster. Jarvis Moss could come in there and put up double digit sacks off the edge. I think they are gonna use Ayers as a 3-4 DE if I recall correctly. But Weakside 3-4 OLB's are supposed to be one trick pony's. in the 3-4 they send the weakside backer nearly every play, then have the SS come up and play curl/flat while the Mike on that side has Hook/Curl. That's basic Cover 3 stuff and with as good of D Backfield Denver had, Dumervil still had to explode off the edge.

i know how it works, i dont think he deserves ware/harrison money though. they play on the weakside and are elite pass rushers, but are also terrors against the run....thats all im saying, they paid him like the other outstanding well rounded OLBs but he doesnt do much more than rush the passer.

i think jarvis could have a big year in that spot...it would be about time.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
08-05-2010, 11:30 AM
i know how it works, i dont think he deserves ware/harrison money though. they play on the weakside and are elite pass rushers, but are also terrors against the run....thats all im saying, they paid him like the other outstanding well rounded OLBs but he doesnt do much more than rush the passer.

i think jarvis could have a big year in that spot...it would be about time.

Didn't Jarvis moss want to hang it up last season?

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:35 AM
i dont know about any of that, but i do remember he was with the first team defense during OTAs and was actually putting his 6-7 body to use out there for the first time...maybe thats a positive sign that he can salvage his thus far terrible career, im sure that first round contract is about to run up

Splat
08-05-2010, 11:35 AM
I don't have a problem what so ever with Doom getting the deal he got, it's a real shame he got hurt.

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:40 AM
sorry but pure pass rushing OLBs are a dime a dozen in a 34, doom is a good pass rusher but completely one dimensional...the production may not to the level dumervill produced but i dont think the dropoff is going to be THAT much....they can still run the ball that direction against the broncos with or without doom in there

AntoinCD
08-05-2010, 11:41 AM
well they gave a one trick pony OLB a huge deal...now they have to live without him and i bet whoever replaces him will have similar production making them realize how ridiculous that deal was.

unless its ayers who replaces him, because ayers sucks

Similar to 17.5 sacks??? Good luck with that

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:41 AM
I don't have a problem what so ever with Doom getting the deal he got, it's a real shame he got hurt.

i do just because i think it ***** the steelers out of woodley, someone who isnt a one dimensional OLB

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Similar to 17.5 sacks??? Good luck with that

maybe not one guy, but on a rotational basis...yeah, maybe around that....maybe not, but i wouldnt be surprised if they found some effective bodies to plug in

AntoinCD
08-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Yeah I don't think it absolutely kills their D. It really hurts though because it gives them less options and means they need either Moss or Ayers to do something.

FlyingElvis
08-05-2010, 11:47 AM
Tough break for the Broncos. I'm glad Doom got his deal done prior to this injury. This is exaclty why I never get upset with athletes holding out +/- complaining about franchise tags.


On the silly assertion that 3-4 pass rushers are a "dime a dozen" . . .

OMFG please tell me where NE can pick up a quick dozen of them. I will pay with my own personal dime.

Splat
08-05-2010, 11:48 AM
So I guess a guy in his first year in a 3-4 can't get any better at his all around game?

At 26 years of age he has peaked and can't learn anything new...

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:51 AM
Tough break for the Broncos. I'm glad Doom got his deal done prior to this injury. This is exaclty why I never get upset with athletes holding out +/- complaining about franchise tags.


On the silly assertion that 3-4 pass rushers are a "dime a dozen" . . .

OMFG please tell me where NE can pick up a quick dozen of them. I will pay with my own personal dime.

ok maybe i was little quick with the dime a dozen statement....but out of all the positions in a 34 a weakside OLB is probably the easiest one to find if you are looking for just a pass rusher. if you take anyone with adequate pass rushing ability tell them to pin their ears back and chase the QB they should be pretty effective....jarvis moss will get the opportunity and im sure teams will gash him in the run game, but doom got gashed in the run game too.

i will say my opinion might be a little skewed since the steelers seem to be able to find people on the street to play OLB, thats just what im used to seeing.

K Train
08-05-2010, 11:54 AM
So I guess a guy in his first year in a 3-4 can't get any better at his all around game?

At 26 years of age he has peaked and can't learn anything new...

not what i said at all....i just dont think this is the nail in the coffin for the broncos defense, it hurts them of course but i think they will be fine on defense without him for a while.

and like someone said, tebow could play OLB in a pinch and probably walk on water doing so

K Train
08-05-2010, 12:01 PM
he has never really been a premier run defender in his career, i didnt know that was a secret?

i didnt mean to get you all fired up over the matter, i think they will be fine though...someone will step up and chase matt cassel all over the field

Paranoidmoonduck
08-05-2010, 12:11 PM
The idea of a Pittsburgh fan talking about "one-trick pony" outside linebacker is so thick in irony I'm pretty sure you could eat it.

This is bad for Denver. Dumervil is (was) the Bronco's best defensive player by leaps and bounds and now they have to turn to the guys who failed prior to him to find production in the pass rush. I don't think anyone expects that offense to produce much, but that defense was really the last vestige of hope for that team.

Although part of my likes it when Denver suffers, you never want a guy to get injured like that. GI'm glad that he got the security of a new contract recently.

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 12:13 PM
I honestly haven't seen that much of Dumervil to say he's bad at stopping the run, but I've heard it from other fans.

And as skewed and insignificant a source as ProFootballFocus might be, they do have Dumervil ranked as the second worst 3-4 OLB vs. the run.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=OLB4&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Still, I don't think you can simply plug in Jarvis Moss and expect him to get 15 sacks.

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 12:17 PM
The idea of a Pittsburgh fan talking about "one-trick pony" outside linebacker is so thick in irony I'm pretty sure you could eat it.

I think that's part of the reason why Pittsburgh constantly finds good LB's, because most can be one-trick ponies and it's concealed pretty well.

Not the guys we have right now in Woodley and Harrison, but IIRC Porter wasn't great against the run (at least in his last years), and many other guys who've passed along have been the same.

One trick ponies playing in a system where their weaknesses are concealed. I still don't think Dumerville is one of those, though, he's definitely a tier above.

K Train
08-05-2010, 12:19 PM
no, you keep repeating this. when, specifically, has he been 'eaten up on the run'? or are you just repeating 'common knowledge' without actually having any idea whether or not it's true?

ok 28-10 loss to the steelers....mendenhall had 122 yards rushing in the second half, dumervill had 0 tackles.

what you are asking for is tough to say because what i gave isnt a direct display of dumervills ability against the run, but yes....it is pretty common knowledge that hes not great against the run, and really 34 OLBs who are great against the run are pretty rare

Paranoidmoonduck
08-05-2010, 12:22 PM
That's not my point. My point is that no defense has demonstrated how much value that kind linebacker has to a defense. And all this talk of "many guys", I would argue that while they shuffle through passable starters, they search long and hard for dominant pass rushers.

To treat "one-trick ponies" as a bad thing is ridiculous if you're a Steelers fan.

K Train
08-05-2010, 12:23 PM
The idea of a Pittsburgh fan talking about "one-trick pony" outside linebacker is so thick in irony I'm pretty sure you could eat it.


this current group isnt, but yeah....joey porter and clark haggans=one trick ponies, notice how they let both walk and refused to pay porter....because he was just a pass rusher and a no-name like james harrison steps in and is way more well rounded than porter ever was, so then they broke the bank open for him and extended him for big money.

same thing will happen with woodley (hopefully)


To treat "one-trick ponies" as a bad thing is ridiculous if you're a Steelers fan.

and i never treated an OLB as being one dimensional as a bad thing, it works, i just dont think them losing him is as devastating as it might seem, which is why i would use the steelers as an example that these guys arent THAT hard to come across. the part i treated as a bad thing was paying him like he wasnt one dimensional. i suppose not alot of people agree with me and thats fine, i never said he was a bad player....he may even be a great pass rusher, which is a need in the league for sure....my point was the steelers have never paid guys like him and were always fine with someone else, so im sure now that the broncos HAVE paid a guy like him they will be ok without him for a little bit

Paranoidmoonduck
08-05-2010, 12:27 PM
They let Porter walk because he was over 30 and they had a replacement in mind. Porter also never had a season close to Dumervil when he was a Steeler.

And the fact that you don't get the irony is what makes is funny.

K Train
08-05-2010, 12:31 PM
They let Porter walk because he was over 30 and they had a replacement in mind. Porter also never had a season close to Dumervil when he was a Steeler.

And the fact that you don't get the irony is what makes is funny.

the replacement they had im mind was 29 at the time lol, and they gave him a 6 year deal when he was 31

Paranoidmoonduck
08-05-2010, 12:33 PM
the replacement they had im mind was 29 at the time lol, and they gave him a 6 year deal when he was 31

I never said they were smart...

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 12:41 PM
The thing with Denver is that there's no one who can match the level of effectiveness that Dumervil had for them, be it because of skill or scheme or both. They've got very limited depth. I think also think Schobel's found a new home.

If Harrison or Woodley go down, it's not as big a deal. For starters, the other one is there, and then there's Timmons who has played OLB for us in the past, mainly due to his crazy athleticism and remarkable blitzing abilities, as well as rookies Worilds and Gibson. Worilds and Gibson could be a significant dropoff, but both are apparently looking great in camp, so who knows.

The point being, it hurts Denver more because their main source of a pass-rush is gone, and there's no clear candidate to replace him. Sure, someone else can come in and have 10+ sacks in his place, but that's easier said than done. Dumervil doesn't have another great pass-rusher playing with him, so teams focus on him, and solely on him, and he still produced. He worked double teams, and still got sacks. There is no way, in my mind, that Jarvis Moss could come in and work those double teams. And since he's not as good as Dumerville, teams will stop focusing on stopping the pass-rush and focus on gashing the hole he left, as KTrain has said.

A major strength might have just turned into a liability.

etk
08-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Stopping the run is a team effort guys. There are good and bad run stoppers but stats don't show that at all. Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever played the game...

K Train
08-05-2010, 12:47 PM
it sucks that all the 34 guys that were on the trading block have already been moved, and to the raider nonetheless with wimbley and groves.

im not sure who would be out there for them to make a move for at this point....i think moss can be effective though, i kinda liked him in the draft as a conversion guy, i thought them switching to a 34 would be the best thing to happen to him, i guess it still could be

K Train
08-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Stopping the run is a team effort guys. There are good and bad run stoppers but stats don't show that at all. Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever played the game...

thats why i couldnt give him the specifics he was looking for...even though i maintain my stance that doom is less than average at run support, which alot of players are it doesnt make them bad players, other guys make up for it. hell the broncos had a good run defense last year, but watching doom against the run is like watching timmons against the run....its just not that good

i know i keep going back to steelers players, but its a good point to reference. actually timmons and doom arent that different of players. both are good rushers and silky smooth athletes and about the same size, but weak in run support

LonghornsLegend
08-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Thank goodness he got paid first. It was the right thing for Denver to do, he earned it, and for everyone that cries about why do players hold out when they are underpaid, here you go right here.


I read some reports saying he could miss the entire season, and there is no chance in hell he would of gotten the same size contract once he got back.

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 12:55 PM
im not sure who would be out there for them to make a move for at this point....

Aaron Schobel, Adalius Thomas, and I guess there's always Shawne Merriman, though I don't see how he'd wind up in a Denver uniform.

Breaker
08-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Clady, Knowshon, now Dumervil?

Broncos=http://i46.tinypic.com/pniw2.gif

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 01:02 PM
Clady, Knowshon, now Dumervil?

Broncos=http://i46.tinypic.com/pniw2.gif

There is way too much humiliation in that clip.

I watched it for over 2 minutes, lol.

1. The Dunk
2. The pathetic attempt to block it.
3. Failing to pick up the spin move.
4. Taking an elbow to the face.
5. Getting Shaq's crotch on your face.
6. Losing a grand total of about 4 meters of ground.
7. Pathetic attempt to hold or stop Shaq once he was riding him.
8. Getting ridden by Shaq.
9. The shove at the end.
10. Having it all caught on a close up.

K Train
08-05-2010, 01:06 PM
and yet again, you demonstrate an utter lack of knowledge of anything other than pittsburgh. denver had one of the WORST run defenses in the league last year, statistically, and it was actually even worse when you were watching them. please do yourself a favor and, you know, WATCH a team, before acting like you have any idea what you're talking about. you've seen dumervil play, what, once in his career? but it's like 'totally common knowledge that he sucks against the run, so i'm just going to keep repeating it'. *rolleyes*

this is a thread you should've stopped posting in before you started. you haven't, at any point other than when you decided the steelers had some relevance (protip: they don't), had any idea what you're talking about. you mention mendenhall's rushing total and dumervil's tackle total as your only supporting evidence. you should, at this point, find your way back to the steelers team board where you won't be embarrassed (whether you acknowledge it or not) by your complete lack of actual knowledge.




actually, my bad you are right....i didnt realize they were so terrible near the end.

they were the 3rd or 4th ranked run defense when they played the steelers in week 9 so i wasnt spewing complete garbage

you are entirely too hostile about my thoughts on one OLBs ability to play the run.

Job
08-05-2010, 01:09 PM
but out of all the positions in a 34 a weakside OLB is probably the easiest one to find if you are looking for just a pass rusher. if you take anyone with adequate pass rushing ability tell them to pin their ears back and chase the QB they should be pretty effective.


Vernon Gholston.

TitanHope
08-05-2010, 01:18 PM
There is way too much humiliation in that clip.

I watched it for over 2 minutes, lol.

1. The Dunk
2. The pathetic attempt to block it.
3. Failing to pick up the spin move.
4. Taking an elbow to the face.
5. Getting Shaq's crotch on your face.
6. Losing a grand total of about 4 meters of ground.
7. Pathetic attempt to hold or stop Shaq once he was riding him.
8. Getting ridden by Shaq.
9. The shove at the end.
10. Having it all caught on a close up.

http://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gifhttp://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gifhttp://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gif
http://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gifhttp://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gifhttp://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gif
http://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gifhttp://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gifhttp://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gif

Mr. Goosemahn
08-05-2010, 01:20 PM
http://www.tamerarei.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/shhhh-smiley.png

Splat
08-05-2010, 01:23 PM
http://i37.tinypic.com/2rhqjjp.gif

Shahin
08-05-2010, 02:54 PM
Well everything i had to say has already been covered. At least he got his contract before this happened.

Timbathia
08-05-2010, 06:22 PM
I have actually seen someone run the numbers on where teams put up the most rushing yards against the Broncos last year. Late in the season when we were a treadmill, most of the damage was on Dooms side, however, the problem was that he had Kenny Peterson in front of him. On the other side, it was the OLB (Haggan or Ayers) job to set the edge and make the runners cut back inside to the ILBs. Doom was not doing that on his side as he was primarily concerned with getting the QB. This put more pressure on Peterson who was completely not up to the job (Peterson paid the price in the offseason and lost his job).

Denver no longer has an elite player on either side of the ball. This could be a rough year.

LonghornsLegend
08-05-2010, 06:32 PM
So I'm guessing Mayock's man crush Ayers sucks then? I haven't seen him play once not gonna lie, but he's never jumped off at me when Denver has played nor has he garnered much attention.


Mayock was all over him too that year, but maybe it was if he played in a 4-3 I can't recall.


McDaniels sure has drafted some suspect players since taking over there.

stephenson86
08-05-2010, 06:38 PM
i think ayers could be successful in the 4-3 but he is deff playing out of position

Timbathia
08-05-2010, 06:43 PM
I have no problem with Ayers last season. He more or less played end in a 5-man front, and the primary thing he was asked to do was set the edge. He did that effectively (though not much else). It was always going to be a big learning curve for him. This year is going to be the key for Ayers as he needs to bring more to the table, especially as it is less likely we will be going with a 5-man front (so he will have a greater range of responsibilities).

descendency
08-05-2010, 06:56 PM
i think ayers could be successful in the 4-3 but he is deff playing out of position

Yea. Denver drafted a 43 LDE and tried to put him at OLB. That was a failure waiting to happen.

Jimmy
08-07-2010, 09:55 AM
Jarvis moss just broke a bone in his hand. woo.

WESLEY WOODYARD

CC.SD
08-09-2010, 06:59 PM
Give us a first for Merriman. Do it.