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View Full Version : Prospect of the Day: RB Mark Ingram, Alabama


Mr. Goosemahn
08-10-2010, 01:18 PM
To see previously discussed prospects, click here.
Jake Locker - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2230943
Cameron Heyward - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41890
Marvin Austin - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41892
Adrian Clayborn - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41919
Anthony Castonzo - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41929
Greg Romeus - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41940
Von Miller - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2238637
Mike Pouncey - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41959
Allen Bailey - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41971
Mark Herzlich - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41993
Prince Amukamara - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42000
Gabe Carimi - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42014
Patrick Peterson - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42030
Terrance Toliver - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42042
Noel Devine - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42053
DeAndre McDaniel - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42063
A. J. Green - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42070
Jonathan Baldwin - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42075
Michael Floyd - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42089
Joseph Barksdale - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42098
Bruce Carter - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42108
Rodney Hudson - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42122
Marcus Cannon - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42132
Jerrell Powe - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42149


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QeZsfNhnj1g/SvnYBPV87KI/AAAAAAAAABk/L9SpN2OL0PA/s320/Alabama_Mark_Ingram.jpg

RB Mark Ingram, Alabama
5'10 - 215 lbs. - Junior

Highlights!

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The reigning Heisman winner. He reminds me of another great RB, (cue ScottyB jizzing in pants) Ray Rice. Whenever I see Ingram play, I immediately think of Rice.

Ingram doesn't have elite speed, but he's got an uncanny ability to shed off defenders and get yards after contact. Very hard to bring down by one guy, and he knows how to position himself to receive hits, making it even more difficult to tackle him.

Ingram will very likely be a top 10 pick come draft time, IMO.

Don Vito
08-10-2010, 01:24 PM
I'm a huge Ingram fan, would love him on the Pats. Isn't a freak of nature when it comes to size and speed, but he is incredibly strong and rarely gets caught on the field. I really like that Ray Rice comparison.

JHL6719
08-10-2010, 01:25 PM
Stud...

Also, check out that decleater block Marquis Maze throws for Ingram at 1:31 in the first video...

Like I said, he surprises opponents with his blocking... and he's a flat out burner...

K Train
08-10-2010, 01:29 PM
Ray Rice and Emmit Smith get tossed around alot with ingram which is fine, they are legit comparisons.....but i dont think he goes top 10, i think hes a mid-late first rounder even if he repeats the heisman

i guess knowshon went 12th so ingram could definitely go higher than what im predicting, i just dont value most RBs in the top 15 unless they are ridiculous, adrian peterson, reggie bush, and jonathan stewart were the last few RBs i liked in the top 10.

also i think it will be tough for him to secure a high draft spot with all the WR, QB, DL and CB talent this year...all positions usually valued more than RB

Babylon
08-10-2010, 01:36 PM
More Emmitt Smith to me and he might slide as did Emmitt. Of course it's Bama he's playing for but he has a nice future ahead of him.

yourfavestoner
08-10-2010, 01:37 PM
If this were 1990, he'd probably be a top ten pick.

Sadly, the bell-cow back isn't valued as highly as it used to be. His running style and build is very, very Emmitt-like, though.

BeerBaron
08-10-2010, 02:07 PM
I don't see him as a top 10 pick.... I think he'll be over-analyzed this year, lose some carries to Richardson, and he won't show anything exception in the pre-draft process.

I do think he can be a very solid pro back, and a late first rounder.

Brent
08-10-2010, 02:16 PM
Looks like a 2nd rounder to me.

VUBlacknGold
08-10-2010, 03:56 PM
Healthy Frank Gore, thats what ill always think of him, which isnt bad. About the same build too

cajuncorey
08-10-2010, 05:13 PM
trent richardson will get drafted higher in the 2012 or 2013 purely because of his big play ability... richardson reminds me of dickerson while ingram reminds me of emmitt. these days more teams would rather have a dickerson than an emmitt

yourfavestoner
08-10-2010, 05:39 PM
trent richardson will get drafted higher in the 2012 or 2013 purely because of his big play ability... richardson reminds me of dickerson while ingram reminds me of emmitt. these days more teams would rather have a dickerson than an emmitt

Their builds are completely different (Dickerson's much taller), but he's got a similar upright running style. He gets low before contact, but it's at his waist instead of his hips. And he's got a good center of gravity to absorb contact and stay balanced.

He's intriguing. If he gets a liddle more flexibility in his hips, and continues to add weight I could see him being similar to Jamal Anderson. That dude was primed to have an awesome career before the Falcons ran him into the ground their SB year.

marshallb
08-10-2010, 10:25 PM
If this were 1990, he'd probably be a top ten pick.

Sadly, the bell-cow back isn't valued as highly as it used to be. His running style and build is very, very Emmitt-like, though.

I don't see him as a top 10 pick.... I think he'll be over-analyzed this year, lose some carries to Richardson, and he won't show anything exception in the pre-draft process.

I do think he can be a very solid pro back, and a late first rounder.

I agree 100% with both of you, I like Ingram quite a bit, but I don't see him being a top ten pick for several reasons, which you two named. I think he'll be a great player though and will make some playoff or near playoff team very happy.

BeerBaron
08-10-2010, 11:03 PM
that's because mcdaniels and xanders are ******* morons.

Consider it karma for the 10+ of Shanny finding 1000 yard backs by flipping rocks in his backyard.

I wouldn't give up on him yet though...the injuries suck, but hopefully he'll give you something when healthy.

FUNBUNCHER
08-10-2010, 11:37 PM
I think Ingram edges Ryan Williams to be the 1st RB off the board, and goes somewhere between picks 12 and 25.
I think Ingram is the kind of RB some team will trade up to grab, he just looks like a 1400 yard a year RB to me, almost guaranteed production.

Hines
08-10-2010, 11:58 PM
He kind of reminds me of Shonn Greene. I know Ingram will get picked higher, but similar builds and maybe speed.

ThePudge
08-11-2010, 12:08 AM
I think Ingram is a good looking back that might not possess elite physical tools but makes up for it with his running style, vision, agility, and toughness. I'd have to agree with Mark Ingram being picked somewhere between 12 and 25.

RaiderNation
08-11-2010, 12:08 AM
Id take him with a top 15 pick no doubt. Have him and a speed back would be great.

Mr.Regular
08-11-2010, 12:15 AM
He's your prototypical back.
Can carry a large workload, great size, good enough speed, his legs are constantly moving, he breaks tackles, and he's shifty in space. He's the #1 back this year.
He may not be a top 10 guy, but thats mainly because of positional value. He's a first rounder in the end though, no doubt. I think he'd beast in New England personally, he could be a target of theirs.

brat316
08-11-2010, 12:21 AM
If Toby didn't go in the first I have a hard time seeing Ingram going in the first.

Also what makes him so much different then Glenn Coffee?

I have a hard time seeing him carry the load, and Rbs aren't asked to carry the load, and he can't change a game like AP or CJ so I think he goes in the second.

LonghornsLegend
08-11-2010, 12:40 AM
I've always felt he's been a mix of Emmitt Smith and Ray Rice, and I can't remember comparing anyone to Emmitt since I've followed the draft so I think the comparisons fit for both guys actually. He is one of the guys who could probably easily tote the rock 25 times a game without much of a problem.


He's not flashy, and doesn't do any of those things that make him be a top 10-15 pick, yet he'll go in the 20's and be ROY and consistently be a 1300 yard rusher in the league, just the way things are sometimes. He has an incredibly high floor as well, funny how you can be so sure with some prospects but he'll still get passed up for guys with amazing potential that will go on to do nothing at the next level.

BeerBaron
08-11-2010, 01:04 AM
I've always felt he's been a mix of Emmitt Smith and Ray Rice, and I can't remember comparing anyone to Emmitt since I've followed the draft so I think the comparisons fit for both guys actually. He is one of the guys who could probably easily tote the rock 25 times a game without much of a problem.


He's not flashy, and doesn't do any of those things that make him be a top 10-15 pick, yet he'll go in the 20's and be ROY and consistently be a 1300 yard rusher in the league, just the way things are sometimes. He has an incredibly high floor as well, funny how you can be so sure with some prospects but he'll still get passed up for guys with amazing potential that will go on to do nothing at the next level.

Once upon a time, when I was draft was a rookie, I thought that way too. Why pass on the sure fire guys for a boom-or-bust type?

But each year, I see more and more what a "special" player can bring to a team.

Good example: Kyle Orton. He wasn't anything special, but he was a winner. He just went out and did enough to win 2/3 of his starts as a Chicago Bear. I defended him as a decent QB and pointed out all the pluses he has...

But then in the first game I saw Jay Cutler play as a Bear, I was just stunned at how much more talented he was than Orton. Say what you will about Cutler's negatives, he has them, but he would regularly make throws that Orton could never even dream of attempting.

So if you find yourself in a spot where drafting the solid player with a high floor who will help your team, great. But if you're given the choice between that guy and a true game changer? Take the shot on the game changer.

If someone offered you a choice between a pretty good back who would never hurt your team, would be average to above average guaranteed....or a 50/50 shot on a guy like CJ or AP who could run for 2000 any given season or rip off 300 in a game, and be a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball.....would you really take the "solid" guy in that spot?

A Perfect Score
08-11-2010, 01:29 AM
If Ryan Mathews and Moreno can go at 12, there is absolutely no reason Ingram can't. He's every bit the prospect both of them are...in fact, I'd greatly prefer him to both of them. Hes big, fast, and I absolutely love the vision and toughness that he runs with. Hes going to be a damn good pro and I expect him to be a top 15 pick.

Mr.Regular
08-11-2010, 02:45 AM
If Ryan Mathews and Moreno can go at 12, there is absolutely no reason Ingram can't. He's every bit the prospect both of them are...in fact, I'd greatly prefer him to both of them. Hes big, fast, and I absolutely love the vision and toughness that he runs with. Hes going to be a damn good pro and I expect him to be a top 15 pick.
Very good point. Ingram is much better than both of them as prospects.
Mathews was overdrafted though by a team that had one gigantic need and was scared to let him go so they traded up.
Denver just sucks at drafting in the early rounds.
Ayers in the 34? Knowshon in the top 15? Tebow over Clausen? Thomas over Bryant? Alphonso Smith for a 1st rounder?

Regardless, if those guys can go that high, than Ingram can too. He may not be flashy but he's a complete back. The Emmitt Smith comparison is almost cliche at this point, but it's pretty accurate.

LonghornsLegend
08-11-2010, 06:26 AM
Once upon a time, when I was draft was a rookie, I thought that way too. Why pass on the sure fire guys for a boom-or-bust type?

But each year, I see more and more what a "special" player can bring to a team.

Good example: Kyle Orton. He wasn't anything special, but he was a winner. He just went out and did enough to win 2/3 of his starts as a Chicago Bear. I defended him as a decent QB and pointed out all the pluses he has...

But then in the first game I saw Jay Cutler play as a Bear, I was just stunned at how much more talented he was than Orton. Say what you will about Cutler's negatives, he has them, but he would regularly make throws that Orton could never even dream of attempting.

So if you find yourself in a spot where drafting the solid player with a high floor who will help your team, great. But if you're given the choice between that guy and a true game changer? Take the shot on the game changer.

If someone offered you a choice between a pretty good back who would never hurt your team, would be average to above average guaranteed....or a 50/50 shot on a guy like CJ or AP who could run for 2000 any given season or rip off 300 in a game, and be a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball.....would you really take the "solid" guy in that spot?


But I definatley think Ingram is a special back, I just think that comes with a high floor as well, he's much more then solid, it's just that in terms of looking at him as a prospect, or 40 time, in the off-season he may not be perceived as special but as a football player he easily is.

wraith
08-11-2010, 07:41 AM
If Toby didn't go in the first I have a hard time seeing Ingram going in the first.

Also what makes him so much different then Glenn Coffee?

I have a hard time seeing him carry the load, and Rbs aren't asked to carry the load, and he can't change a game like AP or CJ so I think he goes in the second.

i think ingram has better vision than coffee... but i don't think ingrams a feature back either.

BamaFalcon59
08-11-2010, 08:48 AM
Well, Ingram has about ten pounds on Coffee, as well as a much better burst and superior vision.

Comparable, but not on the same level.

Razor
08-11-2010, 09:40 AM
Looks like a 2nd rounder to me.

My thoughts exactly. He won't test all that well at the combine which will hurt him. Although 40 yard dashes are overrated they still matter, and Ingram looks like a 4.55 guy to me. Ryan Williams looks like a better alround prospect than Ingram, but he also doesn't have great long speed. Both of them have great burst and hits the hole hard. But at this point I see both of them as 1C - 2A prospects.

Shane P. Hallam
08-11-2010, 09:59 AM
My thoughts exactly. He won't test all that well at the combine which will hurt him. Although 40 yard dashes are overrated they still matter, and Ingram looks like a 4.55 guy to me. Ryan Williams looks like a better alround prospect than Ingram, but he also doesn't have great long speed. Both of them have great burst and hits the hole hard. But at this point I see both of them as 1C - 2A prospects.

Ingram will likely go in the first round just due to the lack of depth at the position this year. I doubt guys like Williams, Rodgers, etc, will declare for the draft. That leaves Ingram competing with one dimensional or injury prone RBs. If a team really needs a guy, they will go with Ingram.

yourfavestoner
08-11-2010, 10:08 AM
Once upon a time, when I was draft was a rookie, I thought that way too. Why pass on the sure fire guys for a boom-or-bust type?

But each year, I see more and more what a "special" player can bring to a team.

Good example: Kyle Orton. He wasn't anything special, but he was a winner. He just went out and did enough to win 2/3 of his starts as a Chicago Bear. I defended him as a decent QB and pointed out all the pluses he has...

But then in the first game I saw Jay Cutler play as a Bear, I was just stunned at how much more talented he was than Orton. Say what you will about Cutler's negatives, he has them, but he would regularly make throws that Orton could never even dream of attempting.

So if you find yourself in a spot where drafting the solid player with a high floor who will help your team, great. But if you're given the choice between that guy and a true game changer? Take the shot on the game changer.

If someone offered you a choice between a pretty good back who would never hurt your team, would be average to above average guaranteed....or a 50/50 shot on a guy like CJ or AP who could run for 2000 any given season or rip off 300 in a game, and be a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball.....would you really take the "solid" guy in that spot?

I completely agree with this, especially when it comes to big-armed quarterbacks. It's why others like Jamarcus Russell will go high in the draft. If a guy can't make every throw, it drastically limits what you can do offensively.

Just watch this year how much more explosive Miami's offense is with Henne at the helm. Pennington can only make throws in under fifteen yards, and between the hash marks. Henne can make any throw on the field.

Sorry for the hijack, but Miami's gonna be good this year folks.

Razor
08-11-2010, 10:16 AM
Ingram will likely go in the first round just due to the lack of depth at the position this year. I doubt guys like Williams, Rodgers, etc, will declare for the draft. That leaves Ingram competing with one dimensional or injury prone RBs. If a team really needs a guy, they will go with Ingram.

If you're right about this, sure.. He'll be a first rounder. I expect both Williams and Rodgers to declare, and if that happens I seriously doubt that any of them will go in the first (or at least, until the late first). If a lot of the underclassmen decides to stay in school next year's draft will suck. If they declare we could have yet another great draft (I'm projecting here, but hey. It's the offseason!).

wonderbredd24
08-11-2010, 10:20 AM
Tremendous player that is already becoming underrated on here.

He doesn't stand out in any particular facet, but he's special when he's got the ball in his hands. He's not the fastest back in the world, but he's fast enough to get to the secondary and I'd be more than happy to take Ingram against corners and safeties. He's going to wear down defenses in the NFL.

Take him and put him on a team like San Francisco behind Davis, Iupati, and Rachal or on the Jets behind Ferguson, Ducasse, and Mangold or the Browns with Thomas and Mack and they will grind you down.

I watch Ingram and I see Emmitt Smith. Smith was not a guy who tore up the combine and I doubt Ingram will either, but who cares? All they do is produce and win football games.

He should be the 1st back off the board.

K Train
08-11-2010, 10:20 AM
i think williams will declare.

dont sleep on my man noel devine making some noise in the late first round discussion, pretty much where i would have all the RBs placed unless someone is desperate for a runner in the top half of the draft

K Train
08-11-2010, 10:22 AM
Take him and put him on a team like San Francisco behind Davis, Iupati, and Rachal or on the Jets behind Ferguson, Ducasse, and Mangold or the Browns with Thomas and Mack and they will grind you down.

.

thats funny cause hes pulled some gore and greene comparisons in this thread

Shane P. Hallam
08-11-2010, 10:28 AM
i think williams will declare.

dont sleep on my man noel devine making some noise in the late first round discussion, pretty much where i would have all the RBs placed unless someone is desperate for a runner in the top half of the draft

Devine won't touch the first round.


And as a RS Soph, there is a larger possibility of Williams staying in school than declaring.

BamaFalcon59
08-11-2010, 10:45 AM
Ingram will likely go in the first round just due to the lack of depth at the position this year. I doubt guys like Williams, Rodgers, etc, will declare for the draft. That leaves Ingram competing with one dimensional or injury prone RBs. If a team really needs a guy, they will go with Ingram.

Devine won't touch the first round.


And as a RS Soph, there is a larger possibility of Williams staying in school than declaring.

FYI, Williams is almost surely gone after this year.

There is also a substantial possibility that Darren Evans also declares.

If Williams comes out, he is a first round pick. I don't have to be a Tech. fan to say that, he's just all-around the best back in college football.

Evans I would say is a third round guy.

LizardState
08-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Sadly, the bell-cow back isn't valued as highly as it used to be. His running style and build is very, very Emmitt-like, though.

Teams have to carry 2 backs now, unlike the Emmitt Smith era when the NFL's superstars were the Featured Backs, now like the Every-Down Back pretty much extinct with the exception of maybe Chris Johnson who is exceptional on so many levels with his freakish speed. Teams have to budget for 2 backs for a lot of very good reasons, like the short shelf life of league rushing leaders due to injury, see Shaun Alexander & Priest Holmes, both led the NFL in rushing in back to back yrs. & now out of FB.

Ingram will be a complementary back to a team that already has one but it's not a luxury pick for the reasons stated. I think his ability to break tackles & make the 1st tackler miss or just plain punish him will drive Ingram to a top 15 pick.

bce
08-11-2010, 05:56 PM
Best prospect disregarding position value. Just runs like nfl rbs are supposed to. The safest pick in the draft, a guaranteed winner.

OaklandRaider56
08-11-2010, 07:19 PM
Best prospect disregarding position value. Just runs like nfl rbs are supposed to. The safest pick in the draft, a guaranteed winner.

There's no such thing.

But yeah, I think Ingram will be a serviceable runner in the very least. His vision, balance, athletic abilities, and production against top competition point to being a good NFL player; not to mention RB seems to be the most seem-less transition from college to the NFL.

ElectricEye
08-11-2010, 09:03 PM
The only thing that really holds him back is the lack of the 'wow' factor. Really solid prospect, but he doesn't have super tools. He's got really good vision and he's the type of guy who you feel comfortable projecting staying healthy because of his running style.

He'll probably be drafted later than he should, but he seems like the type of guy that's very coachable and could be one of those guys who isn't a star, but becomes one because of how solid they are.

Me Likey Rookies
08-11-2010, 11:00 PM
Love Ingram. Love the Ray Rice comparison. Love him to the Bucs in the 10-20 range. He is exactly what we need.

BeerBaron
08-11-2010, 11:11 PM
Love Ingram. Love the Ray Rice comparison. Love him to the Bucs in the 10-20 range. He is exactly what we need.

If you trade back 5-10 spots, or trade up from round 2, you can get him in that 10-20 range ;)

FUNBUNCHER
08-11-2010, 11:13 PM
There's no such thing.

But yeah, I think Ingram will be a serviceable runner in the very least. His vision, balance, athletic abilities, and production against top competition point to being a good NFL player; not to mention RB seems to be the most seem-less transition from college to the NFL.

If Ingram played for a more dynamic passing team like USC under Carroll/Leinart, he'd be on track to rush for his 2nd 2000 yard season, IMHO.

'Bama is mediocre at best throwing the football, and only do so to keep defenses from jumping the run every play.

You guys who are saying that Ingram is just a 'solid' prospect at RB are severely underrating the guy; almost impossible to tackle one on one, an overload matchup in the open field for ANY DB, (read; will get trucked!), lateral quicks are insane, elite running instincts and vision, maybe the best in college football, and his explosion and game speed dwarf his 40 times.

Ingram is better than a 'solid' RB.

Steven Jackson, Chris Johnson, AD, Clinton Portis, Ray Rice and Frank Gore are feature backs - runners on pace for over 300+ carries a season - but most teams don't have them because most RBs just aren't 'special' or durable enough to carry most of the load in the 21st century NFL.

I think Ingram is in this class of runner, a guy you can hand the ball off to and not worry about your team's running game for the next 8 - 10 years.

yourfavestoner
08-11-2010, 11:22 PM
If Ingram played for a more dynamic passing team like USC under Carroll/Leinart, he'd be on track to rush for his 2nd 2000 yard season, IMHO.

'Bama is mediocre at best throwing the football, and only do so to keep defenses from jumping the run every play.

You guys who are saying that Ingram is just a 'solid' prospect at RB are severely underrating the guy; almost impossible to tackle one on one, an overload matchup in the open field for ANY DB, (read; will get trucked!), lateral quicks are insane, elite running instincts and vision, maybe the best in college football, and his explosion and game speed dwarf his 40 times.

Ingram is better than a 'solid' RB.

Steven Jackson, Chris Johnson, AD, Clinton Portis, Ray Rice and Frank Gore are feature backs - runners on pace for over 300+ carries a season - but most teams don't have them because most RBs just aren't 'special' or durable enough to carry most of the load in the 21st century NFL.

I think Ingram is in this class of runner, a guy you can hand the ball off to and not worry about your team's running game for the next 8 - 10 years.

I agree with this 100%.

BeerBaron
08-11-2010, 11:25 PM
I think Ingram is in this class of runner, a guy you can hand the ball off to and not worry about your team's running game for the next 8 - 10 years.

And that kind of guy, in today's NFL, warrants a pick in the mid-teens at best.

Average to above-average running backs are a dime a dozen, and the dropoff from the guys you can get in the late first to the guys still available in the mid-rounds isn't that much.

You mention Jackson (mid-first rounder), Portis (2nd), Rice (2nd), and Gore (3rd)....Ingram is right in with this group.

And recent draft history backs this up. The earliest you saw guys of Ingram's caliber go recently were Knowshon and Matthews...Knowshon because the Broncos don't know what the **** they're doing, and Matthews because the it was the Chargers only major need pre-holdouts.

It takes a guy with that "special" kind of potential to go even in the top 10 anymore. AP is a monster who would surprise no one if he rushed for 2000 next year and 300 in a game. Any given game really... That is why you saw Spiller go pretty early, because he has that game breaking potential.

So unless you have a guy with the potential to be that next "special" runner, with just exceptional size/speed/intangibles...he just won't be drafted high.

yourfavestoner
08-11-2010, 11:51 PM
And that kind of guy, in today's NFL, warrants a pick in the mid-teens at best.

Average to above-average running backs are a dime a dozen, and the dropoff from the guys you can get in the late first to the guys still available in the mid-rounds isn't that much.

You mention Jackson (mid-first rounder), Portis (2nd), Rice (2nd), and Gore (3rd)....Ingram is right in with this group.

And recent draft history backs this up. The earliest you saw guys of Ingram's caliber go recently were Knowshon and Matthews...Knowshon because the Broncos don't know what the **** they're doing, and Matthews because the it was the Chargers only major need pre-holdouts.

It takes a guy with that "special" kind of potential to go even in the top 10 anymore. AP is a monster who would surprise no one if he rushed for 2000 next year and 300 in a game. Any given game really... That is why you saw Spiller go pretty early, because he has that game breaking potential.

So unless you have a guy with the potential to be that next "special" runner, with just exceptional size/speed/intangibles...he just won't be drafted high.

Jonathan Stewart went 13th overall, and I think Ingram is a better prospect than Stewart.

AntoinCD
08-12-2010, 06:42 AM
I think a lot of people are sleeping on the fact that Ingram could possibly lose significant carries this season to Richardson which may hurt his stock. I wouldn't mind taking Ingram at the latter end of the first round, however unless a RB prospect is truely special i'm not a fan of taking them early. The positional value isn't great, especially with so many teams going to a backfield by committee approach

K Train
08-12-2010, 07:21 AM
Jonathan Stewart went 13th overall, and I think Ingram is a better prospect than Stewart.

see stewart was my top ranked back that year, well over mcfadden. i thought stewart was the closest thing weve seen to tomlinson since tomlinson, hes kind of just does it all pretty well

jury is still out on him since he shares an awful lot of carries though

i dont think ingram is anything near stewart as a prospect, but i do think he could esily be much better than knowshon or matthews

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 07:37 AM
I think a lot of people are sleeping on the fact that Ingram could possibly lose significant carries this season to Richardson which may hurt his stock. I wouldn't mind taking Ingram at the latter end of the first round, however unless a RB prospect is truely special i'm not a fan of taking them early. The positional value isn't great, especially with so many teams going to a backfield by committee approach
Let's say he does lose carries to Trent Richardson and they go with more of a 2-headed monster.

Why does that hurt Ingram's stock? He's already proven he can be a workhorse back. That'd be doing Ingram a favor as it pertains to the NFL. Less wear on the tires.

Does it hurt Ryan Williams if Darren Evans gets a lot of the carries? Not to me.

People talk about the positional value of running backs going down, but it didn't stop 3 running backs going in the 1st round last year.

AntoinCD
08-12-2010, 07:50 AM
Let's say he does lose carries to Trent Richardson and they go with more of a 2-headed monster.

Why does that hurt Ingram's stock? He's already proven he can be a workhorse back. That'd be doing Ingram a favor as it pertains to the NFL. Less wear on the tires.

Does it hurt Ryan Williams if Darren Evans gets a lot of the carries? Not to me.

People talk about the positional value of running backs going down, but it didn't stop 3 running backs going in the 1st round last year.

But seldom are they taken highly in the first round. The last two RBs taken in the top 5 were Reggie Bush and Darren McFadden, both of whom were considered truely special talents. The fact that a number of high-end starting RBs were taken outside the first round shows they can be found later-Frank Gore, Ray Rice, MJD etc all taken after the first. Unless there is a really special prospect(and I dont think Ingram or Williams are on that level) then the real value for RBs is anywhere from late first to the third round.

As for Ingram, he had 271 carries last season which shows he can be the workhorse. However, surely scouts will wonder why the Heisman trophy winning RB is losing carries. Less carries equals less yards, less TDs etc. Plus he got a lot of his yards after he had already worn the defense down. If Richardson is getting say 50-75 more carries then Ingram's stats may not be terrific, and as has been mentioned he is not going to blow up the combine.

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 08:53 AM
But seldom are they taken highly in the first round. The last two RBs taken in the top 5 were Reggie Bush and Darren McFadden, both of whom were considered truely special talents. The fact that a number of high-end starting RBs were taken outside the first round shows they can be found later-Frank Gore, Ray Rice, MJD etc all taken after the first. Unless there is a really special prospect(and I dont think Ingram or Williams are on that level) then the real value for RBs is anywhere from late first to the third round.

As for Ingram, he had 271 carries last season which shows he can be the workhorse. However, surely scouts will wonder why the Heisman trophy winning RB is losing carries. Less carries equals less yards, less TDs etc. Plus he got a lot of his yards after he had already worn the defense down. If Richardson is getting say 50-75 more carries then Ingram's stats may not be terrific, and as has been mentioned he is not going to blow up the combine.
Running backs don't go in the top 5 all that often, period. This isn't a recent phenomenon. They aren't considered a premium position like a QB, LT, or DE. But CJ Spiller went 9th and Ryan Mathews went 12th, so it's not like teams are ignoring the position. They are just taking MORE of them.

I also think scouts are smart enough to know how talented Trent Richardson is and it has more to do with how good he is than how good Ingram isn't. They rode Ingram to a national title.

AntoinCD
08-12-2010, 09:04 AM
Running backs don't go in the top 5 all that often, period. This isn't a recent phenomenon. They aren't considered a premium position like a QB, LT, or DE. But CJ Spiller went 9th and Ryan Mathews went 12th, so it's not like teams are ignoring the position. They are just taking MORE of them.

I also think scouts are smart enough to know how talented Trent Richardson is and it has more to do with how good he is than how good Ingram isn't. They rode Ingram to a national title.

I agree in essence with this however it's not just scouts who will base where a player will go. They can tell GMs etc about a certain player, however the top end of the first round is usually littered with high upside players. I kinda feel like Ingram is what you see, a good dependable pound the ball type but without the upside or electricity of a CJ Spiller etc. And I also think Alabama's defense and coaching staff had a huge bearing on their National Championship run too.

K Train
08-12-2010, 09:12 AM
I agree in essence with this however it's not just scouts who will base where a player will go. They can tell GMs etc about a certain player, however the top end of the first round is usually littered with high upside players. I kinda feel like Ingram is what you see, a good dependable pound the ball type but without the upside or electricity of a CJ Spiller etc. And I also think Alabama's defense and coaching staff had a huge bearing on their National Championship run too.
which is why i kind of think julio jones goes before ingram....huge upside compared to someone who has pretty much shown what they are, which isnt bad at all it just makes him more likely to slide a little bit on draft day

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 09:34 AM
which is why i kind of think julio jones goes before ingram....huge upside compared to someone who has pretty much shown what they are, which isnt bad at all it just makes him more likely to slide a little bit on draft day

And then in 3 years, everyone asks what the hell they were thinking by doing that.

FUNBUNCHER
08-12-2010, 09:49 AM
No way Julio Jones goes before Ingram.

JJ could easily bust in the pros; 'raw' WR prospects who don't produce in college aren't selected in the top 20 based on 'potential'.

For my money, Igram is a hella exciting player to watch, a heart-breaker to opposing defenses.

If this was 1987, you could bet that Ingram would be a top 5 pick. But the success of lower round backs in addition to coaches like Mike Shanahan demonstrating to the league that RB talent is a depth position in the draft has led to the devaluation of the position.

The only RBs who go high nowadays are those guys with top 40 times, basically.

A Perfect Score
08-12-2010, 09:50 AM
No way Julio Jones goes before Ingram.

JJ could easily bust in the pros; 'raw' WR prospects who don't produce in college aren't selected in the top 20 based on 'potential'.

For my money, Igram is a hella exciting player to watch, a heart-breaker to opposing defenses.

If this was 1987, you could bet that Ingram would be a top 5 pick. But the success of lower round backs in addition to coaches like Mike Shanahan demonstrating to the league that RB talent is a depth position in the draft has led to the devaluation of the position.

The only RBs who go high nowadays are those guys with top 40 times, basically.

Try telling that to bce regarding Jonathon Baldwin.

AntoinCD
08-12-2010, 09:55 AM
No way Julio Jones goes before Ingram.

JJ could easily bust in the pros; 'raw' WR prospects who don't produce in college aren't selected in the top 20 based on 'potential'.

For my money, Igram is a hella exciting player to watch, a heart-breaker to opposing defenses.

If this was 1987, you could bet that Ingram would be a top 5 pick. But the success of lower round backs in addition to coaches like Mike Shanahan demonstrating to the league that RB talent is a depth position in the draft has led to the devaluation of the position.

The only RBs who go high nowadays are those guys with top 40 times, basically.

Darrius Heyward-Bey says 'hi'. And realistically anyone could bust in the pros. Julio's measureables and workout numbers will have teams salivating and I would be willing to bet he goes before Ingram. I don't necessarily agree with that but it is likely going to happen.

K Train
08-12-2010, 09:59 AM
teams will drool over julio in pre draft stuff.

if he played on some BS big 12 offense like crabtree hes be everyones #1 WR, everyone is really really down on him right now and for good reason but i think he'll have a good year and reassert himself as the prospect we used to look at him as.

hes my #2 WR right now personally, but everyone ranks the 4 WRs differently

FUNBUNCHER
08-12-2010, 10:05 AM
I think the 'bust rate' for top drafted WRs is higher than it is for similarly rated RBs.

As of today, Julio Jones has done little to prove he's worth picking in the top 20. His draft projections are based in part on his physical tools and his having an All-SEC type season.

Julio Jones wishes he put up the numbers at Alabama that DHB put up at UMD.

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 10:08 AM
teams will drool over julio in pre draft stuff.

if he played on some BS big 12 offense like crabtree hes be everyones #1 WR, everyone is really really down on him right now and for good reason but i think he'll have a good year and reassert himself as the prospect we used to look at him as.

hes my #2 WR right now personally, but everyone ranks the 4 WRs differently
****** route running and inability to get open works in the Big XII?

Predraft stuff is nice and all, but I think it has more impact on here than it does in NFL war rooms.

We'll see what he does this season, but I still have him #4. Being really big and kinda fast only carries you so far

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 10:10 AM
Julio Jones wishes he put up the numbers at Alabama that DHB put up at UMD.

Hyperbole has been taken to another level here

AntoinCD
08-12-2010, 10:14 AM
I think the 'bust rate' for top drafted WRs is higher than it is for similarly rated RBs.

As of today, Julio Jones has done little to prove he's worth picking in the top 20. His draft projections are based in part on his physical tools and his having an All-SEC type season.

Julio Jones wishes he put up the numbers at Alabama that DHB put up at UMD.

DHB never got within 100yds of Julio's freshman year. If Julio replicates his freshman year but increases his TDs by even 2 or 3 he will be a top 10 pick

yourfavestoner
08-12-2010, 10:17 AM
Lol, Julio Jones is still riding on his HS hype. Dude's got a big vertical, and that's about it.

JHL6719
08-12-2010, 10:17 AM
****** route running and inability to get open works in the Big XII?





We'll see what he does this season, but I still have him #4. Being really big and kinda fast only carries you so far



It worked for guys like Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed, Denario Alexander, Joaquin Iglesias, Manuel Johnson, etc...

True.. just ask guys like Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed, Denario Alexander, etc....

K Train
08-12-2010, 10:18 AM
****** route running and inability to get open works in the Big XII?


i meant more along the lines of gimmicky spread pass happy **** where hed be one on one all the time, not run run run run run run run run, get poor QB play and play tough defense like they do at bama

jones is doubled/tripled all the time and is asked to block all the time (hes the most crushing blocking WR ive ever seen btw) weve had this conversation in the how fast is julio jones thread, but his QB sucks, hes in a run heavy offense, and he has no threats to take any coverage off of him. its an uphill battle to get good numbers in bamas offense for a WR

FUNBUNCHER
08-12-2010, 10:31 AM
Forgot how impressive the stats were that JJ put up as a frosh. If he puts up numbers slightly better than 2009, yeah he's probably a near lock to go in the top 20.

But if JJ goes ahead of Ingram, it would be a **** up of epic proportions.

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 11:13 AM
i meant more along the lines of gimmicky spread pass happy **** where hed be one on one all the time, not run run run run run run run run, get poor QB play and play tough defense like they do at bama

jones is doubled/tripled all the time and is asked to block all the time (hes the most crushing blocking WR ive ever seen btw) weve had this conversation in the how fast is julio jones thread, but his QB sucks, hes in a run heavy offense, and he has no threats to take any coverage off of him. its an uphill battle to get good numbers in bamas offense for a WR

His QB is actually pretty good and the run heavy offense makes his job easier, but he doesn't capitalize.

The run game is precisely the threat that takes coverage away from him

bce
08-12-2010, 07:41 PM
Ingram is certainly not an average to above average back. hes the best prospect since the 2008 class. I dont know how you can watch him play and think anything other than the guy is a player, he has the necessary physical tools, hes going to be a guaranteed winner. the safest pick in the draft, and if i wanted a top end rb, hed be the first guy i would take. disregarding position value, the #1 player in the class. Taking position value into account, surely in the top 10.

AntoinCD
08-13-2010, 05:14 AM
Ingram is certainly not an average to above average back. hes the best prospect since the 2008 class. I dont know how you can watch him play and think anything other than the guy is a player, he has the necessary physical tools, hes going to be a guaranteed winner. the safest pick in the draft, and if i wanted a top end rb, hed be the first guy i would take. disregarding position value, the #1 player in the class. Taking position value into account, surely in the top 10.

For a RB to be valued that highly he needs to be more than what Ingram is. I love Ingram, would love to have him on the Patriots, but I don't think he warrants a top 10 pick. I just don't see the value in drafting RBs that highly.

Ingram can be an extremely dependable, every down back but he lacks the electricity of a Chris Johnson or even CJ Spiller. He will also do very well to get to the level of Steven Jackson, Frank Gore etc.

I think his value lies somewhere between 15 and the end of the first. Unless he has Adrian Peterson type ability I don't think teams can justify taking a RB in the top 10. Just my personal opinion.

FUNBUNCHER
08-13-2010, 11:28 AM
I don't think anyone is arguing that Ingram will/should be a top 10 pick. I mean I think he should go at the top of the draft, but if he doesn't time better than expected, I doubt he goes that high.

I see him more as a lock top 10 prospect.

bce
08-13-2010, 10:57 PM
Ingram will likely go in the first round just due to the lack of depth at the position this year. I doubt guys like Williams, Rodgers, etc, will declare for the draft. That leaves Ingram competing with one dimensional or injury prone RBs. If a team really needs a guy, they will go with Ingram.

I disagree wholeheartedly shane. Running back is one of the deepest positions this year, and there wont be much incentive for guys to go back, becasue top 10 money and 2nd round money wont have a large divide in dollars.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:02 PM
For a RB to be valued that highly he needs to be more than what Ingram is. I love Ingram, would love to have him on the Patriots, but I don't think he warrants a top 10 pick. I just don't see the value in drafting RBs that highly.

Ingram can be an extremely dependable, every down back but he lacks the electricity of a Chris Johnson or even CJ Spiller. He will also do very well to get to the level of Steven Jackson, Frank Gore etc.

I think his value lies somewhere between 15 and the end of the first. Unless he has Adrian Peterson type ability I don't think teams can justify taking a RB in the top 10. Just my personal opinion.


What more does he need to be?

At least at the college level, he was better than every one of those guys. Now will that translate to being better in the nfl i dont know, but not every rb can run a 4.3 40, nor do they have to. Chris johnson and cj spiller dont take multiple guys to bring them down either, and i question how long they will last.

Bottom line is, on tape, hes the best there is. There is no one with better tape than ingram. If you are evaluating solely on tape, his ability as a football player, there is no doubt, hes the #1 guy. There is no better tape than ingram.

katnip
08-14-2010, 12:34 AM
to me he can have a Adrian Peterson type of impact on the right team. But.. For some reason I think Seattle will get him. maybe cause I think they're crap for 2010

oh, btw- chris "beanie" wells/mark ingram? just came off the top. as a prospect

prock
08-14-2010, 12:41 AM
to me he can have a Adrian Peterson type of impact on the right team. But.. For some reason I think Seattle will get him. maybe cause I think they're crap for 2010

oh, btw- chris "beanie" wells/mark ingram? just came off the top. as a prospect

He isn't dynamic enough to have an AD type impact. He is a very good all around back, not the blow your face off back like CJ or AD.

katnip
08-14-2010, 12:46 AM
yea...

I'd rank him slightly above Beanie Wells coming out. Mainly because Wells had a history of nagging injuries as far as I know. All though I didn't really care for all the talk about AD's injury history in college. Cause you have the ability or you don't in some cases/players to me. Hard one for me to judge personally

619
08-14-2010, 12:49 AM
to me he can have a Adrian Peterson type of impact on the right team. But.. For some reason I think Seattle will get him. maybe cause I think they're crap for 2010

oh, btw- chris "beanie" wells/mark ingram? just came off the top. as a prospect

I don't think there's a back eligible in this draft class suggestive of another Peterson type, although I would look out for his Bama teammate in a couple of years.

katnip
08-14-2010, 12:52 AM
talking about Trent Richardson? I thought he was considered more of a power back.

FUNBUNCHER
08-14-2010, 10:19 AM
talking about Trent Richardson? I thought he was considered more of a power back.

SOme dudes around here talk about him like he profiles closely with Adrian Peterson, but I don't buy it.

I don't think he has the pure speed to make that comparison, but we won't know what kind of back Trent Richardson is until 2011 anyway.

TACKLE
08-14-2010, 01:38 PM
SOme dudes around here talk about him like he profiles closely with Adrian Peterson, but I don't buy it.

I don't think he has the pure speed to make that comparison, but we won't know what kind of back Trent Richardson is until 2011 anyway.

Nobody here compares him to AD. They just say he will be the best RB prospect since Peterson.

ToldLikeItIs
08-14-2010, 01:55 PM
Ingram and Greene do run with the same downhill style.

bce
08-14-2010, 02:56 PM
Hes the best prospect since 2008 class. he may not be as "dynamic" as chris johnson or adrian peterson, but i see him being just as effective. I can see 1500 yard plus seasons in the future. And thats good enough, thats an elite nfl tailback and thats good enough, whether hes a peterson or johnson clone or not.

FUNBUNCHER
08-14-2010, 04:29 PM
Naw, bce, that AD comparison was made about Trent Richardson, not Mark Ingram.

619
08-14-2010, 04:35 PM
Does anyone else see the Mark Ingram to Curtis Martin comparison?

Caulibflower
08-15-2010, 01:30 AM
Trent Richardson doesn't run anything like Adrian Peterson. Reggie Bush actually came to mind for me while I watched some of his plays. He's kind of like a Reggie Bush with 20 pounds of muscle on him- he moves a lot from side to side on his runs, kinda sliding back and forth through the defense, making it hard for guys to get a hold on him, but he doesn't run people over much. But that's what worries me about him, same as I was was one of those people who wasn't super high on Reggie Bush as a pro prospect coming out.

I made some posts on this forum a couple of months ago and I was pretty critical of Richardson, but I think I'll back off of that for the time being. I'll just take the position that Ingram is much more NFL-ready, in my opinion. He's got a better feel for the game- the patience, balance, and a better idea of how to use his power and leverage, and the angles he should take for maximum yardage. At the NFL level, everyone is a great athlete. Everyone is a great athlete, and I think Ingram has that natural running *instinct* that could allow him to be great. My impression of Richardson is that he's a physical freak out there on the college football field and can kind of do whatever he wants, to an extent. Someone mentioned before that he hold the ball well, in a position that makes it less likely for him to fumble. That's great, but I still see him as a bit of a rocked-up dancer.

Caulibflower
08-15-2010, 01:33 AM
And me saying "Trent Richardson doesn't run anything like Adrian Peterson" is a bit of a hyperbole. They have some similarities, but the strengths of Peterson's game are not the same as the strengths of Richardson's game, I don't think.

yourfavestoner
08-15-2010, 01:47 AM
Trent Richardson=Jamal Anderson. Adrian Peterson? Reggie Bush? Come on guys.

Caulibflower
08-15-2010, 02:07 AM
Not seeing the Jamal Anderson comparison. Jamal's got a thicker build, runs *at* people, and isn't as shifty.

Caulibflower
08-15-2010, 02:08 AM
Jamal Anderson ran in straight lines; trying to tackle Trent Richardson is like trying to tackle a whirling dervish who weighs 215 and runs a 4.50.

ThePudge
08-15-2010, 02:28 AM
If I were to use a comparison I would say a slightly faster Cedric Benson. I think Richardson will run more violently than Ced at times, but overall I think they run in a similar manner. Right now Mark Ingram looks like the better player but in the long run I think Trent has more "special" upside than any back in the country. That said, I love Ingram & Ryan Williams (VT) as First Round backs that should achieve success starting in the NFL.

descendency
08-15-2010, 10:46 AM
Ingram will look better if he stays away from a ZBS team.

GoRavens
08-15-2010, 11:29 AM
Mark Ingram is so similar to Emmit Smith it's scary.
The man is rock solid, his 'break tackle' in Madden should be well over a 90.
If I was him, of course I'd declare after this season, hell he probably would've came out last year if it wasn't for BS NCAA rules.
Now hopefully he can stay healthy by not getting overused this year.
In that case, he'll be a top 10 pick for sure.
His power, consistency, character, and toughness all make Ingram an elite NFL prospect.
I predict either Cleveland, Denver, Detroit or Seattle.

Caulibflower
08-15-2010, 01:51 PM
Please, please Seattle. Assuming Jake Locker is already gone, Ingram would be a helluva consolation prize.

yourfavestoner
08-15-2010, 02:30 PM
Not seeing the Jamal Anderson comparison. Jamal's got a thicker build, runs *at* people, and isn't as shifty.

Jamal Anderson ran in straight lines; trying to tackle Trent Richardson is like trying to tackle a whirling dervish who weighs 215 and runs a 4.50.

IBnVK1VhwX0

The Dirty Bird was a lot shiftier and had much better balance than you remember.

Caulibflower
08-15-2010, 09:54 PM
I've seen that video. That's not particularly shifty running by NFL standards. I do kinda like the Cedric Benson comparison; he had a nice 20+ yard run today against the Broncos that looked like a run we could see Richardson having in a couple years.

dannyz
08-15-2010, 10:28 PM
I don't like how Benson hold on to the ball, but the comparison is good. What about a bigger Ray Rice or MJD?

Halsey
08-15-2010, 11:45 PM
I like Ingram, but I think he's one of those guys who many fans will choose to ignore the questions about. When you win a championship and a Heisman in college, many fans will just assume you will translate perfectly into the NFL. Not that I know of any major questions on Ingram yet. The only think I wonder about is how much that Bama offensive line is factoring into his success. It sure helped Glen Coffee get drafted.

San Diego Chicken
08-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Stud. His lower-body strength is extremely good, and his RB instincts are excellent. I feel really confident about him being a bellcow in the NFL.

FUNBUNCHER
08-18-2010, 04:15 AM
IMO no Ingram, no undefeated season or national championship.

katnip
08-26-2010, 01:33 AM
Any1 else see a little DeAngelo Williams in him? Just a quick (pretty thoughtless) comparison

^ thinking of current players

K Train
08-26-2010, 07:28 AM
not even a little bit

JHL6719
08-26-2010, 09:36 AM
I see a little BEASTY ****ing McBEAST in him....

katnip
08-26-2010, 08:06 PM
not even a little bit

okay

I thought so