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View Full Version : Who is the Brandon Spikes/Shawn Merriman of the 2011 draft?


RJS113
08-11-2010, 10:50 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not asking who is the best linebacker in the 2011 draft. I'm wondering who is the most fiery, passionate, physical, and aggressive linebacker in the draft? The guy that is a vocal leader on the field.

Players that I would put in this category are: Ray Lewis, Brandon Spikes, Shawn Merriman, and Patrick Willis.

BRAVEHEART
08-11-2010, 10:58 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not asking who is the best linebacker in the 2011 draft. I'm wondering who is the most fiery, passionate, aggressive linebacker in the draft? The guy that is a vocal leader on the field.

Players that I would put in this category are: Ray Lewis, Brandon Spikes, Shawn Merriman, and Patrick Willis.


Why didn't you just say them instead? It would've saved you an explanation.

RJS113
08-11-2010, 11:01 PM
Why didn't you just say them instead? It would've saved you an explanation.

I wanted to use Brandon Spikes (a 2nd rounder, who many thought should have gone later) as an example to show that I'm not looking for just the top ranked guy.

Duffman57
08-12-2010, 12:23 AM
I wanted to use Brandon Spikes (a 2nd rounder, who many thought should have gone later) as an example to show that I'm not looking for just the top ranked guy.

And Merriman to show its not just ILB?

But anyway, i started this thread a little bit ago (Here (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42106)), and it never really got off the ground, but two of the names are Mark Herzlich, and Nate Irving (proally the best of the bunch.

TACKLE
08-12-2010, 01:19 AM
Why didn't you just say them instead? It would've saved you an explanation.

Because Patrick Willis doesn't really fit that description.

K Train
08-12-2010, 10:29 AM
when has patrick willis ever been a fiery guy out there? seems pretty quiet to me

Herzlich is the only easy one i can think of

yourfavestoner
08-12-2010, 10:33 AM
Brandon Spikes=DROTY and will be the best player on that D in about 2 years. Belichick loooooves him. He's the second coming of Vrabel.

AntoinCD
08-12-2010, 10:35 AM
Brandon Spikes=DROTY

I didnt want to sound like a homer and say something like that but he's already got the inside track to the starting ILB job next to Mayo and he is just an animal. Having one of the best camps of all Patriots players, not just rookies. He'll also be asked to pass rush quite a bit so should put up some nice stats

K Train
08-12-2010, 10:42 AM
i wanted him :-(

him and gibson would have been sickkkkkk picks

yourfavestoner
08-12-2010, 10:48 AM
I didnt want to sound like a homer and say something like that but he's already got the inside track to the starting ILB job next to Mayo and he is just an animal. Having one of the best camps of all Patriots players, not just rookies. He'll also be asked to pass rush quite a bit so should put up some nice stats

His pass rushing ability was so underrated coming into the draft. I said plenty of times, you only need to watch the tape against Alabama his junior year, where he throws Andre Smith around like he's a ragdoll. That's why I think he'll eventually settle into a Vrabel-type role. He's versatile enough to be on the field for all three-downs as a sledgehammer runstopper, somebody who can blitz from the inside or outside, and is adept at dropping into short zones, baiting the QB, and making picks (and bringing them back to the house for six).

Dude was banged up all last year, and it showed. He was an unstoppable force his junior year, and was a bigger playmaker than McClain. The Patriots got a better player for a quarter of the price.

Razor
08-12-2010, 10:53 AM
I didnt want to sound like a homer and say something like that but he's already got the inside track to the starting ILB job next to Mayo and he is just an animal. Having one of the best camps of all Patriots players, not just rookies. He'll also be asked to pass rush quite a bit so should put up some nice stats

Well, he is (reportedly) a liability in coverage, but I think we all expected that. Other than that I agree with all of this.

AntoinCD
08-12-2010, 10:55 AM
Well, he is (reportedly) a liability in coverage, but I think we all expected that. Other than that I agree with all of this.

Ive been looking about for a link, I think it was Mike Reiss, that said Spikes' coverage has been really impressive thus far in camp. I know he said he would have had a highlight play in scrimmage against the Saints had it been in a game.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2010, 10:59 AM
As long as you keep him out of man-to-man and Tampa-Two-style deep third coverage, and just have him play robber zones and hook-to-curl zones, he'll be more impressive than you'd think. He's very, very good at getting in the passing lane and/or baiting the quarterback into dumb throws underneath.

Granted, he had the benefit of a tremendous pass rush that forced QBs to get rid of the ball quickly at Florida. He's not Derrick Brooks or Brian Urlacher, but he can be effective in underneath zone coverage.

His real strength will show as a pass rusher, though. By the time his third year rolls around, and he's picked up on the nuances of it, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the 7-10 sack range consistently.

Razor
08-12-2010, 11:17 AM
Ive been looking about for a link, I think it was Mike Reiss, that said Spikes' coverage has been really impressive thus far in camp. I know he said he would have had a highlight play in scrimmage against the Saints had it been in a game.

Yeah, I've read that. On the other hand, the guys from Patriots Football Weekly said that Spikes appear to be holding more or less every time he's in coverage Not that it matters all that much, that won't be what BB will ask him to do (much). I think he's a solid option for DROTY.

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 11:29 AM
I thought this was gonna be a who was going to fall/who was on steroids question...

I'm sure Maryland will have another physical freak in the next year or two

I'm rooting for Spikes though

descendency
08-12-2010, 12:10 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the 7-10 sack range consistently.

As a TED Backer???

bigbluedefense
08-12-2010, 12:35 PM
Brandon Spikes=DROTY and will be the best player on that D in about 2 years. Belichick loooooves him. He's the second coming of Vrabel.

DAMMIT man! I wanted him on the Giants SO bad. I was hoping he'd fall to us in the 3rd.

You know I was pimping Spikes hard before the draft, and went as far as saying he's better than Rolando McClain.

I think the Pats got a steal. Everyone is sleeping on the Patriots defense. They just need a pass rusher, and they'll be dominant again.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2010, 12:36 PM
I didnt want to sound like a homer and say something like that but he's already got the inside track to the starting ILB job next to Mayo and he is just an animal. Having one of the best camps of all Patriots players, not just rookies. He'll also be asked to pass rush quite a bit so should put up some nice stats

DAMMIT!

aaaaaaaaah :(


i wanted him on the Giants so bad. He'd be perfect for us.

TACKLE
08-12-2010, 12:52 PM
i wanted him on the Giants so bad. He'd be perfect for us.

Not really. He's no where near athletic enough to play MLB in Perry Fewell's system.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Not really. He's no where near athletic enough to play MLB in Perry Fewell's system.

I'm looking beyond Perry Fewell's system. The Giants need (and have seeked in the past) a thumping MIKE who can blitz and stuff the run, Spikes was perfect for that role.

And I'm sure Fewell would have adjusted to his strengths.

Babylon
08-12-2010, 01:00 PM
While on the Brandon Spikes subject i thought he wasnt the vocal leader type this past year, to me he was almost a distraction. As for him being anything special in the NFL i guess because it's New England one would assume that, i'm not there yet.

TACKLE
08-12-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm looking beyond Perry Fewell's system. The Giants need (and have seeked in the past) a thumping MIKE who can blitz and stuff the run, Spikes was perfect for that role.

And I'm sure Fewell would have adjusted to his strengths.

Fair enough. Its just that you guys are running a Tampa 2 style defense and that is the one system that doesn't really fit Spikes' skill set. He would have been PERFECT in the middle of Spags defense with his ability to bring pressure off the blitz and to be physical at the point of attack.


On a side note, how is Clint Sintim looking? I loved him coming out of UVA. I think given the opportunity he can shine in an Orakpo-type roll. What type of impact do you expect him to make this season?

wonderbredd24
08-12-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm looking beyond Perry Fewell's system. The Giants need (and have seeked in the past) a thumping MIKE who can blitz and stuff the run, Spikes was perfect for that role.

And I'm sure Fewell would have adjusted to his strengths.

While I think his instincts make up for some of his lack of speed, I think Spikes would be exposed in the middle of a 4-3 defense and with the quality of DLine the Giants have, I'd be more concerned with guys who can cover the field sideline to sideline and Spikes will never be more than a guy who slams through the A and B gap

bigbluedefense
08-12-2010, 01:08 PM
While I think his instincts make up for some of his lack of speed, I think Spikes would be exposed in the middle of a 4-3 defense and with the quality of DLine the Giants have, I'd be more concerned with guys who can cover the field sideline to sideline and Spikes will never be more than a guy who slams through the A and B gap

Unless Linvall Joseph really anchors the middle of our dline, our DTs have been soft against the run. We need a guy who will slam through that A and B gap to stuff the run.

We don't need coverage. I think the Giants will have pound for pound the best secondary in the league if Kenny Phillips is healthy, and we have a great coverage backer in Michael Boley.

We need a sledge hammer in the middle.

619
08-12-2010, 01:09 PM
His real strength will show as a pass rusher, though. By the time his third year rolls around, and he's picked up on the nuances of it, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the 7-10 sack range consistently.

He didn't accumulate that many sacks in his entire college career and now you're telling us that he'll be in that range consistently? Maybe something more like 4-5 sacks annually, in the mold of a Karlos Dansby.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2010, 01:14 PM
As a TED Backer???


I really think his value will end up being like that of Vrabel's. He can be used inside on running downs, and moved outside or rush with his hand on the ground in four-man fronts.

Granted, he won't assume that much responsibility this year. It really wouldn't surprise me a few years down the line, though.

DAMMIT man! I wanted him on the Giants SO bad. I was hoping he'd fall to us in the 3rd.

You know I was pimping Spikes hard before the draft, and went as far as saying he's better than Rolando McClain.

I think the Pats got a steal. Everyone is sleeping on the Patriots defense. They just need a pass rusher, and they'll be dominant again.

I know, you were one of the few who was saying that with Spikes you'd be getting a player who is, at the very least, almost as good as Rolando McClain for a fraction of the cost.

People don't remember that he was widely considered to be a first round prospect his junior year, when the Gators won the National Championship. That entire defense was absolutely savage, and he was, without question, the best player on it.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2010, 01:14 PM
Fair enough. Its just that you guys are running a Tampa 2 style defense and that is the one system that doesn't really fit Spikes' skill set. He would have been PERFECT in the middle of Spags defense with his ability to bring pressure off the blitz and to be physical at the point of attack.


On a side note, how is Clint Sintim looking? I loved him coming out of UVA. I think given the opportunity he can shine in an Orakpo-type roll. What type of impact do you expect him to make this season?

*sigh* I still want us to run Spag's defense. It's perfect for us.

Clint is gonna be our starting SAM. He's a beast vs the run. So far, it sounds like he's really improved his coverage in camp. We won't know exactly what he is until we see him in preseason, but it sounds good so far.

I like Clint. Im not sure if we are continuing to develop his pass rushing skills though. I think thats a mistake, i want him to get snaps along the dline as well as SAMbacker.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2010, 01:20 PM
He didn't accumulate that many sacks in his entire college career and now you're telling us that he'll be in that range consistently? Maybe something more like 4-5 sacks annually, in the mold of a Karlos Dansby.

It depends on his his role with the team fills out. If he's strictly at TED linebacker, then you're probably right.

If he gets significant time at DE and OLB, though, it wouldn't surprise me. By saying 7-10, I don't mean to say that he'll consistently be a 10 sack guy, that's probably what he'd get in a career-best year.

Florida didn't use him extensively at DE, but he flashed enough raw ability to get to the passer that I think he can have success as a 3-4 OLB who can occaisionally put his hand on the ground. He may not ever have enough bust to consistently get put the QB on the ground, but he has excellent leverage for his height.

I dunno. I just keep having flashbacks of him against South Carolina and Alabama in 08 and can't help but think he could be a unique and versatile weapon for NE.

TACKLE
08-12-2010, 01:21 PM
*sigh* I still want us to run Spag's defense. It's perfect for us.

Clint is gonna be our starting SAM. He's a beast vs the run. So far, it sounds like he's really improved his coverage in camp. We won't know exactly what he is until we see him in preseason, but it sounds good so far.

I like Clint. Im not sure if we are continuing to develop his pass rushing skills though. I think thats a mistake, i want him to get snaps along the dline as well as SAMbacker.

I hope they do give him an opportunity to rush off the edge. He is an explosive pass rusher who has proven even in his limited opportunities last year, that he can put pressure on the quarterback.

Personnel wise, a tampa 2 scheme is a very odd fit for the Giants. Is Kiwi staying at end or is he moving back to OLB?

Duffman57
08-12-2010, 03:00 PM
Yah i was one who was really liking him durring the draft process. I really could care less that he ran a 5.0 forty, he plays with good enough game speed and had such good instincts that he was always going to be around the ball. I think no matter where he was though, he would have to play in a 3-4.

ThePudge
08-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Yah i was one who was really liking him durring the draft process. I really could care less that he ran a 5.0 forty, he plays with good enough game speed and had such good instincts that he was always going to be around the ball. I think no matter where he was though, he would have to play in a 3-4.

Not last season. Brandon Spikes was a shadow of his Junior self a year ago and by no means was he fast enough on the field. He didn't have the quickness or speed to play sideline-to-sideline and he often got caught in traffic a year ago. He had enormous struggles changing directions in space last year and was outmaneuvered by Quarterbacks. He went in the second round based on his Junior season, if I were grading last season (including the NFL Combine) he'd have probably ranked as a 5th-7th Round pick at best.

That said, there is upside there if he can return to form and stay healthy. There are a lot of things Spikes does well & he has an understanding of the game further than the typical rookie. I liked him coming out as a tweener ILB/OLB in the 3-4 due to his size and pass-rush ability from the edge.

StaticGator
08-12-2010, 03:32 PM
It still makes no sense to me why the Giants have switched to the Tampa Two. For 30 years since Parcells they've been a brawny, cold weather team. Why would you want to be a speed defense in the Meadowlands?

yourfavestoner
08-12-2010, 03:36 PM
Not last season. Brandon Spikes was a shadow of his Junior self a year ago and by no means was he fast enough on the field. He didn't have the quickness or speed to play sideline-to-sideline and he often got caught in traffic a year ago. He had enormous struggles changing directions in space last year and was outmaneuvered by Quarterbacks. He went in the second round based on his Junior season, if I were grading last season (including the NFL Combine) he'd have probably ranked as a 5th-7th Round pick at best.

That said, there is upside there if he can return to form and stay healthy. There are a lot of things Spikes does well & he has an understanding of the game further than the typical rookie. I liked him coming out as a tweener ILB/OLB in the 3-4 due to his size and pass-rush ability from the edge.

I agree. The contrast of his junior and senior seasons (the Alabama game in particular) are stunning. That doens't necessarily mean he wouldn't have been a first rounder after his junior year, either. But it's not inconceivable. McClain got drafted eighth overall, despite having slightly better overall measurables (and had the opportunity of being fully healthy, as well) because he captained a team with a dominant defense to a National Title - the exact same role Spikes filled his junior year. Not saying that he would have been a sure-fire first rounder, but it's a distinct possibility.

BRAVEHEART
08-12-2010, 03:44 PM
Because Patrick Willis doesn't really fit that description.

He put them in that group.

phlysac
08-12-2010, 05:19 PM
He put them in that group.

Yes he did.

Willis isn't a "fiery leader". He leads by example. In fact, Willis was against wearing the green dot on his helmet initially because he's not much of a talker.

Rosebud
08-14-2010, 10:24 AM
It still makes no sense to me why the Giants have switched to the Tampa Two. For 30 years since Parcells they've been a brawny, cold weather team. Why would you want to be a speed defense in the Meadowlands?

It's just not going to be a pure tampa 2, Fewell has been trying a lot of different things out, I mean the first day of camp our secondary played primarily off coverage in the morning and then came back in the afternoon to play almost exclusively press man. I know Fewell has a tampa 2 base because he coached under Lovie and Jauron, but he has never really run a pure tampa 2, at least he didn't Buffalo which is where I've seen him coach. Plus he's a really smart guy who adjusts to what his talent can do, which is why I expect good things once he figures out how best to use our guys.

I hope they do give him an opportunity to rush off the edge. He is an explosive pass rusher who has proven even in his limited opportunities last year, that he can put pressure on the quarterback.

Personnel wise, a tampa 2 scheme is a very odd fit for the Giants. Is Kiwi staying at end or is he moving back to OLB?

Kiwi's staying at DE and is currently battling Osi for the starting spot opposite Tuck. I think Osi will win the job back, but Kiwi will get a lot of PT assuming he's healthy and word is he's finally put on the strength that's been holding him back so far in his career.

bce
08-14-2010, 03:15 PM
His pass rushing ability was so underrated coming into the draft. I said plenty of times, you only need to watch the tape against Alabama his junior year, where he throws Andre Smith around like he's a ragdoll. That's why I think he'll eventually settle into a Vrabel-type role. He's versatile enough to be on the field for all three-downs as a sledgehammer runstopper, somebody who can blitz from the inside or outside, and is adept at dropping into short zones, baiting the QB, and making picks (and bringing them back to the house for six).

Dude was banged up all last year, and it showed. He was an unstoppable force his junior year, and was a bigger playmaker than McClain. The Patriots got a better player for a quarter of the price.

Brandon spikes is not a pass rusher, so i dont know how he fits the "vrabel type role".

wonderbredd24
08-14-2010, 04:32 PM
Brandon spikes is not a pass rusher, so i dont know how he fits the "vrabel type role".

Except when he's a pass rusher.