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View Full Version : Prospect of the Day: QB Ryan Mallett, Arkansas


Mr. Goosemahn
08-13-2010, 05:37 PM
To see previously discussed prospects, click here.
Jake Locker - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2230943
Cameron Heyward - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41890
Marvin Austin - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41892
Adrian Clayborn - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41919
Anthony Castonzo - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41929
Greg Romeus - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41940
Von Miller - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2238637
Mike Pouncey - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41959
Allen Bailey - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41971
Mark Herzlich - http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41993
Prince Amukamara - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42000
Gabe Carimi - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42014
Patrick Peterson - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42030
Terrance Toliver - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42042
Noel Devine - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42053
DeAndre McDaniel - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42063
A. J. Green - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42070
Jonathan Baldwin - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42075
Michael Floyd - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42089
Joseph Barksdale - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42098
Bruce Carter - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42108
Rodney Hudson - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42122
Marcus Cannon - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42132
Jerrell Powe - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42149
Kyle Rudolph - http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42196


http://heismanpundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ryan-mallett.jpg

QB Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
6'7 - 238 lbs. - Junior

Highlights!

OurYaWeYlQw

This guy has all the physical tools required to be a great QB. Very big guy, very strong arm, will be an early pick come draft time. I've heard some people like him more than Locker. What do you guys think of him?

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 05:47 PM
I've got him behind Locker, but if both have good seasons, both could easily be top 5 picks. The tools are all there for Mallett, I think he just needs another year of polish.

This might be the first draft in a while where there isn't a clear top candidate at QB.

wicket
08-13-2010, 05:49 PM
I've got him behind Locker, but if both have good seasons, both could easily be top 5 picks. The tools are all there for Mallett, I think he just needs another year of polish.

This might be the first draft in a while where there isn't a clear top candidate.

for top qb?

btw i dont like qbs who are as bat **** crazy as mallett is,

MidwayMonster31
08-13-2010, 05:50 PM
The talent is there. The biggest problem I see in him is how he gets off balance and can make a bad throw. This might have improved this season, so we'll see.

marshallb
08-13-2010, 05:51 PM
I've got him behind Locker, but if both have good seasons, both could easily be top 5 picks. The tools are all there for Mallett, I think he just needs another year of polish.

This might be the first draft in a while where there isn't a clear top candidate.

I agree with you almost entirely, but I do think that by the end of the year one of them will have a slight advantage, but it is very, very possible that the only thing that decides who gets picked first out of the 2 is the team, such as location/weather and coaching styles. Like I think Buffalo would prefer Mallett due to his arm strength in that weather, where as other teams, such as WCO teams, may not need that strong of an arm and may choose Locker, who I do like better than Mallett but both are in my top 5.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 05:56 PM
I agree with you almost entirely, but I do think that by the end of the year one of them will have a slight advantage, but it is very, very possible that the only thing that decides who gets picked first out of the 2 is the team, such as location/weather and coaching styles. Like I think Buffalo would prefer Mallett due to his arm strength in that weather, where as other teams, such as WCO teams, may not need that strong of an arm and may choose Locker, who I do like better than Mallett but both are in my top 5.

Well that's what I meant by no clear cut favorite QB. If both guys have at least solid years, we may not know until the name is called which is going to be drafted first. Other drafts recently seem to have a clear cut favorite as the top QB, with no legitimate challenge to their position.

And if Luck were to have a great season and come out (unlikely but not impossible) in addition to Mallett and Locker, we could really see a jumble at the very top with some excellent QBs available.

marshallb
08-13-2010, 06:05 PM
Well that's what I meant by no clear cut favorite QB. If both guys have at least solid years, we may not know until the name is called which is going to be drafted first. Other drafts recently seem to have a clear cut favorite as the top QB, with no legitimate challenge to their position.

And if Luck were to have a great season and come out (unlikely but not impossible) in addition to Mallett and Locker, we could really see a jumble at the very top with some excellent QBs available.

Yea, I knew what you meant. I just kind of felt like explaining my thoughts on it. Don't forget my man Christian Ponder, I don't see him becoming a top 10 prospect in this draft, but I love him in the late teens and 20s, and see him becoming a very solid NFL QB.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 06:09 PM
Yea, I knew what you meant. I just kind of felt like explaining my thoughts on it. Don't forget my man Christian Ponder, I don't see him becoming a top 10 prospect in this draft, but I love him in the late teens and 20s, and see him becoming a very solid NFL QB.

Yeah, I think even with a good year (assuming the other guys have at least OK years) Ponder is still a good "tier" behind them.

Sort of the JP Losman compared to potential Eli, Ben, Rivers....(As prospects, assuming no one tanks it in 2010)

marshallb
08-13-2010, 06:28 PM
Yeah, I think even with a good year (assuming the other guys have at least OK years) Ponder is still a good "tier" behind them.

Sort of the JP Losman compared to potential Eli, Ben, Rivers....(As prospects, assuming no one tanks it in 2010)

Yup, I feel the exact same way, pretty much that almost no matter what Ponder does this year, he's still gonna be behind Locker and Mallett, and Luck if he comes out. I don't think Luck will come out unless he has a very good year and it's announced that their will be a rookie wage scale in place for 2012, or if he's perceived to be the absolute #1 QB prospect ahead of Locker and Mallett.

I also like the 2004 QB draft comparison to this year's. I was only remotely following the draft at that time though, so I didn't really know much about the players as prospects.

ThePudge
08-13-2010, 06:39 PM
My favorite 2011 prospect right now by a healthy margin and my most analyzed & critiqued player going into the upcoming season. Anyone that's been here for a little while and pays close attention to the Draft Board will know that Ryan Mallett has been my guy from last November and they'll know that I have a lot to say about him.

Before I put together an organized and detailed scouting report (likely my most comprehensive of any 2011 prospect) I'd like to share a few quotes of mine regarding Mallett. In reading these notice my opinions on Mallett progress. There's a lot of detailed analysis in these posts that will comprise much of my scouting report. I literally sat and watched Mallett with my eyes wide in amazement. He can do things I've never seen done before and I expect him to screw up, yet the screw-ups never really came so I sat in awe. Truly a privilege to watch a guy like him at the college level.

- Arkansas QB Ryan Mallett is not a finished product, and no one is under the impression that he is. He needs to improve his accuracy and consistency, as well as footwork in and outside the pocket. To fully complete his development, Mallett needs to become more of a quarterback than a ball-thrower. He needs to be able to command his team in the huddle and he needs to emerge as a true team leader.

With that all said, he has unbelievable natural tools. He has one of the strongest arms I've ever seen in football. The zip this guy puts on deep outs and passes over 40 yards is unreal. He has tremendous size, standing well over 6'6 and weighing in at over 235 pounds. He shows poise, accuracy on his intermediate-deep routes, and the ability to put the ball 70+ yards downfield or squeeze a ball into the tightest spots. He also protects the ball remarkably well for his aggressive style (4 interceptions). Athletically, he's more similar to JaMarcus Russell coming out of LSU than Andrew Walter out of ASU. He definitely shows the ability to move and to pick up yards with his legs, but like Russell, he lacks development of footwork in and outside the pocket.

There's just simply too much natural talent and ability there to overlook Mallett as a serious NFL prospect. In the beginning of the season Mallett was unproven and extremely raw, but he's settled in at Arkansas, looks a lot more comfortable, and has improved his game a startling amount. He's not anywhere near complete, in fact, of any Top Three Round QB prospect this year, he probably has the furthest to go as well as overall development. Still, God has given him the most natural talent of the bunch, and of just about all of recent QB prospects. If Ryan Mallett makes the move to come out this year, he's likely to find a way into the Top 15-20. If he stays, he's the frontrunner for the #1 pick in 2011.

Arkansas QB Ryan Mallett completed 18 of 34 passes for 310 yards 5 Touchdowns and 2 Interceptions in a 42-21 win over Mississippi State. Some may gripe about his 53% completion percentage on the day, and two interceptions, but Iím willing to bet people didnít watch every pass Mallett threw on Saturday. Iím happy to say I did. While his shortcomings were evident at times, he showed a remarkable amount of improvement and displayed a little of everything against the Bulldogs. Mallett went up top, put balls over his receivers shoulder, and scored. Mallett surveyed the field, checked down, and scored. Mallett rolled out of the pocket, bought time with his feet, threw across his body, and scored. Iím more confident than ever that he can make all of the throws JaMarcus Russell could coming out of LSU, perhaps more. He has a beautiful play-action fake and throws a near immaculate deep ball. All day he did what the Razorbacks coaches and his teammates needed him to do.

For a guy who doesnít get much credit for intangibles, heís incredibly poised and doesnít get rattled easily. He went 3/3 in the redzone, including two Td passes. Both times he forced passes into tight spots and ended up getting picked off, he led his team back. I havenít seen Mallett rattled and heís absolutely scary when he gets in a rhythm. He seems to be a fine teammate as well and you can tell his line & receivers rally around him and feed off his presence. He seems to be clearing up a lot of misconceptions about himself as a player and person every week. I wrote above in my initial thoughts that Mallett remained more of a ball-thrower than a quarterback, and I think I may be eating some crow already as he has some innate QB skills. He surveys the defense, makes good pre-snap reads, and goes through his progressions quickly, not taking the amount of sacks and hits youíd expect behind a very average offensive line. Mechanically, his release is quick, high, and he throws a very pretty ball. His accuracy is one of his stronger points as he can put the ball in the tightest spots, almost always gives his receivers a chance to catch the ball with his location, and shows the ability to time his receivers very well coming out of breaks and running full stride.

Mallett still showed some drawbacks as a prospect, not everything was perfect. His footwork in the pocket remains average, more inconsistent than anything, and out of the pocket he looks significantly more comfortable moving out to his right and throwing the ball than he does to his left. Heís still getting a lot of balls dropped and a big part of it is how hard he throws the ball on short to intermediate routes. He needs to find some touch on those passes, especially over the middle of the field, if he wants to be a complete player. That kind of thing will get him into some trouble at the next level.

Man, what a prospect though. I tried to go out on a limb in my original post, mentioning Mallett as a potential Top 15 pick this year. I really donít consider that going out on a limb anymore. So howís this, if Mallett declares in 2010, he will be a Top 10 pick and is going to have a better chance than some think at being the first Quarterback off the board.


Ryan Mallett used to play at about 265 (and looked fine), but his coaches at Arkansas urged him to get into the 235-245 range. The weight loss threw off his footwork in the pocket a bit, but by the end of the season Mallett looked more comfortable than ever and smoother in his drop & footwork in/outside the pocket. He's not a statue, he can pick up yards with his feet when he needs to and is an exceptional passer when moving to his right. He's very good at keeping his eyes downfield, surveys his options well, and he can make any throw. He was remarkably efficient & his numbers are somewhat skewed by his receivers that dropped anywhere from 5-10 balls PER game. I can't tell you how many balls went through Razorbacks' hands a year ago or hit them between the numbers; this happened in big games and big situations.

I was unbelievably impressed by how well the big-armed Mallett operated his team though. Character concerns stem off of Mallett's reactions on the field at times to dropped balls. He's an extremely competitive player on the field & will hold his teammates accountable. Later in the season his coaches and receivers gained a little more trust in their Quarterback and by the end of the season it was clear that the Arkansas Razorbacks were Mallett's team. He's going to put his team on his shoulders like he did so many times a year ago from game to game & in tough situation. His ability to handle the two-minute drill surprised me the first few times I watched him as he's a guy that knows exactly what he's doing and has the capability to do anything. In the redzone Mallett's efficiency & confidence shine.

His broken foot sets him back a bit in terms of developing consistent footwork in /outside the pocket but his production on the field shouldn't see any hit. The best passer in the SEC in 2009 is likely to be the best player in the nation in 2010 & in my opinion, the odds-on favorite to be the 1st Overall Pick next April.

I'll admit that I need to try to find more out about Ryan Mallett as a person off the field as he certainly rubbed some people the wrong way at Michigan. He seems to have a very good idea of the physical tools he's working with & the talent that he has and it can lead to some fiery moments. My hope is that he's a coachable individual and doesn't think he's done working. I have HIGH hopes for him. Arkansas is the trendy pick to contend in the SEC, this is why.

These posts don't even include analysis of Mallett vs. LSU, which was one of the most memorable games of the year for me. I saw him run the two-minute drill as well as anyone I've ever watched. It doesn't hurt that the guy can throw any pass imaginable.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 07:02 PM
I think the first sentance of your first quote is the key to Mallett for me at least. I said it a little earlier that the thing he needs to do most this year is become more polished.

I think he's in a good offense to do that, though the conference won't do him any favors....if he manages to look good against the tougher teams though, he could leapfrog Locker who only has the PAC-10 to beat up on.

ThePudge
08-13-2010, 07:06 PM
I think the first sentance of your first quote is the key to Mallett for me at least. I said it a little earlier that the thing he needs to do most this year is become more polished.

I think he's in a good offense to do that, though the conference won't do him any favors....if he manages to look good against the tougher teams though, he could leapfrog Locker who only has the PAC-10 to beat up on.

In the second quote I kind of detail that I wasn't giving him enough credit. He's not a finished product, I'll stand by that.. but he's a much better Quarterback than I first thought. Recently I discovered he also led the nation a year ago in Passer Rating by a pretty healthy margin. I'm not a big fan of stats, but in his first year starting in the SEC, I can't help but to be impressed.

BamaFalcon59
08-13-2010, 07:32 PM
In the second quote I kind of detail that I wasn't giving him enough credit. He's not a finished product, I'll stand by that.. but he's a much better Quarterback than I first thought. Recently I discovered he also led the nation a year ago in Passer Rating by a pretty healthy margin. I'm not a big fan of stats, but in his first year starting in the SEC, I can't help but to be impressed.

Did he really?

I know passer efficiency and passer rating are seperate statistics.

ThePudge
08-13-2010, 07:42 PM
Did he really?

I know passer efficiency and passer rating are seperate statistics.

Actually if you look at Espn's statistics page, they list Mallett as #1 in Passer Rating. After clicking on the complete page, it shows him at 8th. I apologize for that.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 07:44 PM
Actually if you look at Espn's statistics page, they list Mallett as #1 in Passer Rating. After clicking on the complete page, it shows him at 8th. I apologize for that.

That's still fairly impressive considering that every other name on the list except for Tebow and Clausen played in non-BCS conferences and/or pass-whacky schemes.

wonderbredd24
08-13-2010, 08:27 PM
That's still fairly impressive considering that every other name on the list except for Tebow and Clausen played in non-BCS conferences and/or pass-whacky schemes.

Like Petrino's offense?

Mallett is huge, has a ridiculous arm, is more mobile than given credit for, and can make some 'wow' throws both with his arm strength and with his touch, but his accuracy and touch can both be inconsistent.

I like Locker better right now, but we'll see what both can do this year.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 08:28 PM
Like Petrino's offense?

Mallett is huge, has a ridiculous arm, is more mobile than given credit for, and can make some 'wow' throws both with his arm strength and with his touch, but his accuracy and touch can both be inconsistent.

I like Locker better right now, but we'll see what both can do this year.

I was talking more like Houston and BYU....I don't think Petrino's is that far off from the college average anymore. They almost all seem to being going pass whacky spreads.

And honestly, that trend is bad for the NFL long term imo.

wonderbredd24
08-13-2010, 08:33 PM
I was talking more like Houston and BYU....I don't think Petrino's is that far off from the college average anymore. They almost all seem to being going pass whacky spreads.

And honestly, that trend is bad for the NFL long term imo.

As long as the rules keep favoring receivers and the offense in general, this is the direction the game is going to go unfortunately.

619
08-13-2010, 09:00 PM
I laugh at those who feel that Locker is a more finished product than Mallett.

Babylon
08-13-2010, 09:23 PM
I laugh at those who feel that Locker is a more finished product than Mallett.

Stop laughing at me. Jake's game i think is more mature, he is ahead i think in read progression, mobility and leadership. Having said that if Mallett goes ahead of Locker to a team like Buffalo i wouldnt complain.

wonderbredd24
08-13-2010, 09:25 PM
Stop laughing at me. Jake's game i think is more mature, he is ahead i think in read progression, mobility and leadership. Having said that if Mallett goes ahead of Locker to a team like Buffalo i wouldnt complain.

Followed by Jake Locker to Cleveland.

Now, there's something we can all enjoy.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 09:27 PM
Fans with likely high draft picks fighting FOR the QBs??

Man...what a contrast from the Falcons fans who didn't want Ryan....Lions fans who didn't want Stafford...and Rams fans who didn't want Bradford. I'm glad to see that for a change rather than wanting to slap all of those team's fans.

Babylon
08-13-2010, 09:35 PM
Fans with likely high draft picks fighting FOR the QBs??

Man...what a contrast from the Falcons fans who didn't want Ryan....Lions fans who didn't want Stafford...and Rams fans who didn't want Bradford. I'm glad to see that for a change rather than wanting to slap all of those team's fans.


Cleveland or Buffalo can be bought off by trading 1sts and giving them a first for the following year if needed. If Seattle is there in the top half dozen or so they will move mountains to get Locker or basically get booed out of town.

619
08-13-2010, 09:37 PM
Stop laughing at me. Jake's game i think is more mature, he is ahead i think in read progression, mobility and leadership. Having said that if Mallett goes ahead of Locker to a team like Buffalo i wouldnt complain.

I didn't want to include intangibles in this discussion, but I guess you have to factor that in as well. Mallett's mobility and overall feel in the pocket is very underestimated, and considering all the other advantages that coming with a player of his size, strength and stature, it's got to be looked upon in a positive light in comparison to Locker. Locker is being tutored in a definitive pro style attack, therefore it's hard to debate the read progression argument. Mallett looks the part of a more natural passer, and that's where my original statement stemmed from.

Babylon
08-13-2010, 09:47 PM
I didn't want to include intangibles in this discussion, but I guess you have to factor that in as well. Mallett's mobility and overall feel in the pocket is very underestimated, and considering all the other advantages that coming with a player of his size, strength and stature, it's got to be looked upon in a positive light in comparison to Locker. Locker is being tutored in a definitive pro style attack, therefore it's hard to debate the read progression argument. Mallett looks the part of a more natural passer, and that's where my original statement stemmed from.

See your point but at 6-3 and 230 with the arm and mobility that Locker has i dont see him taking a backseat to anyone but as i said i can see Mallett going first. (as long as it isnt to Seattle)

ThePudge
08-13-2010, 10:01 PM
Mallett's extremely comfortable & confident in the pocket and he surveys the field and finds open receiver. There aren't a whole lot of broken plays for the Razorbacks, Mallett doesn't take a long time to get the ball out of his hands and distributes the ball well. His throwing mechanics are spot-on with a compact motion and overhead delivery. I'm not taking anything away from Locker, but I'd tend to agree with 619. Locker's more coached up in an NFL manner, but Mallett plays with an NFL style already.

Neither are perfect. Locker's mobility isn't something you can teach Mallett, but Ryan's awareness and escapability are very underrated. Locker can pick up chunks on yards with his feet where Mallett is likely the better passer right now. He's dynamic. I'm glad we get the pleasure of seeing maybe four quality QBs this season that could make a run at the Top 10-15 (Mallett, Locker, Luck, Ponder.)

Brent
08-13-2010, 10:22 PM
Lions fans who didn't want Stafford
Not on this forum. There were so many Lions fans on here saying that Stafford was such a better choice than Sanchez.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 10:35 PM
Not on this forum. There were so many Lions fans on here saying that Stafford was such a better choice than Sanchez.

No no no.....None of those teams wanted a QB period, at least early in the process. I don't know how many times I typed up half of a long rant about how ******* ******** the fans of those godawful teams are if they could seriously be considering taking say, Glenn Dorsey when their starting QB options are Chris Redman and Joey Harrington....or taking Jason Smith when their QB options were whoever the **** Detroit was starting that year....only to stop, take a few breaths and delete the post as to not seem like a complete psycho.

Bad, bad, bad teams like that who've been awful for years and don't currently have a realistic long-term option at QB, MUST take a QB. Most of the fans are idiots and say stupid things like "derr....why take a QB when we have no one to protect him?" or "______ is the best player and we should take him no matter what."

QBs are and always will be an exception to any rule of "BPA" or anything like that.

That's why I was refreshed to see fans of teams who will likely be pretty bad this year actually accepting the fact that their team needs a QB.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-13-2010, 10:46 PM
Hey, I was perfectly justified to want Calvin Johnson over Russell.

619
08-13-2010, 10:52 PM
No no no.....None of those teams wanted a QB period, at least early in the process. I don't know how many times I typed up half of a long rant about how ******* ******** the fans of those godawful teams are if they could seriously be considering taking say, Glenn Dorsey when their starting QB options are Chris Redman and Joey Harrington....or taking Jason Smith when their QB options were whoever the **** Detroit was starting that year....only to stop, take a few breaths and delete the post as to not seem like a complete psycho.

The case that year with those group of Falcon fans was by far the most irritating of all experiences that I've endured during my time as a member here.

Brent
08-13-2010, 10:54 PM
That's why I was refreshed to see fans of teams who will likely be pretty bad this year actually accepting the fact that their team needs a QB.
maybe it's just me, but I remember P-L, Brodeur, Scotty D and a few others who would always rant on and on in threads about how people mocking Sanchez to the Lions was stupid and wrong.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:04 PM
The most physically gifted ever. Does he have it between the ears will be the test. On pure physical throwing talent, There has probably never been a better prospect.

Hey, I was perfectly justified to want Calvin Johnson over Russell.

NOt really jamarcus russels team record is actaully better than calvin johnsons team record.

Theres a simple theorem. Passing on an elite qb propspect and them panning out is higher than the cost of them busting.

It is never proper to pass on an elite qb prospect, unless you already have one. If they bust, they bust, the cost is lower than passing on #7 to pick kellen winslow jr. It takes decades sometimes to recover from those mistakes.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-13-2010, 11:10 PM
There's different opinions when it comes to elite though. To act like all quarterbacks who go top 5 are equal is a ******** argument.

All I know is I thought Johnson was the better player and would have been the better pick. And he would have been too.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:13 PM
Mallett's extremely comfortable & confident in the pocket and he surveys the field and finds open receiver. There aren't a whole lot of broken plays for the Razorbacks, Mallett doesn't take a long time to get the ball out of his hands and distributes the ball well. His throwing mechanics are spot-on with a compact motion and overhead delivery. I'm not taking anything away from Locker, but I'd tend to agree with 619. Locker's more coached up in an NFL manner, but Mallett plays with an NFL style already.

Neither are perfect. Locker's mobility isn't something you can teach Mallett, but Ryan's awareness and escapability are very underrated. Locker can pick up chunks on yards with his feet where Mallett is likely the better passer right now. He's dynamic. I'm glad we get the pleasure of seeing maybe four quality QBs this season that could make a run at the Top 10-15 (Mallett, Locker, Luck, Ponder.)

How is locker more coached up in an nfl manner? lockers mobility is immaterial. Hes not going to be running in the nfl. Those days are over. Otherwise vince young, whos a far superior athlete and runner to locker, would be running around all over the place. Its an immaterial trait. Its a pocket league in 2010. There are no running qbs.

There's different opinions when it comes to elite though. To act like all quarterbacks who go top 5 are equal is a ******** argument.

All I know is I thought Johnson was the better player and would have been the better pick. And he would have been too.

Jamarcus russel actually had a better winning percentage than calvin johnson. I didnt say they were all equal. I said you dont pass regardless of whether they may bust, because the cost of them panning out and you passing is higher than the cost of them busting. If they are an elite prospect. There have been qbs taken high in the draft than have not been elite prospects. See mark sanchez. Jamarcus russel was the right pick regardless of whether he busted. Calvin johnson was the wrong pick regardless of the fact hes been somewhat succesful. Theyre no worse off for having drafted a bust qb than the lions are having drafted a succesful wr.

Babylon
08-13-2010, 11:19 PM
How is locker more coached up in an nfl manner? lockers mobility is immaterial. Hes not going to be running in the nfl. Those days are over. Otherwise vince young, whos a far superior athlete and runner to locker, would be running around all over the place. Its an immaterial trait. Its a pocket league in 2010. There are no running qbs.

Steve Young, John Elway, Steve McNair all moved the chains with their legs, are we that far removed from those days? Maybe we shouldnt be.

BeerBaron
08-13-2010, 11:27 PM
maybe it's just me, but I remember P-L, Brodeur, Scotty D and a few others who would always rant on and on in threads about how people mocking Sanchez to the Lions was stupid and wrong.

I don't think you're getting me yet here....my issue wasn't with which QB they preferred, it was that so many of them didn't want a QB period. They wanted to take the LT so they could protect a QB they acquire some other time, or take a defensive player since their defense was so bad or something dumb like that.

There's different opinions when it comes to elite though. To act like all quarterbacks who go top 5 are equal is a ******** argument.


Unless there is the incredibly rare year where no QB is even close to elite, like 2000 for instance, there is always at least one QB who gets pushed into that status.

In my opinion, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez and Sam Bradford were not elite QB prospects. However, due to the premium on QBs, they all got pushed up. Ryan and Bradford were the best of sparse years, but I would have had a major problem if the Falcons or Rams passed on Ryan or Bradford.

619
08-13-2010, 11:33 PM
NOt really jamarcus russels team record is actaully better than calvin johnsons team record.

Theres a simple theorem. Passing on an elite qb propspect and them panning out is higher than the cost of them busting.

It is never proper to pass on an elite qb prospect, unless you already have one. If they bust, they bust, the cost is lower than passing on #7 to pick kellen winslow jr. It takes decades sometimes to recover from those mistakes.

The first statement is ******* stupid. Point blank.

I think you had visions of Peyton Manning flashing in your head when you made the second statement. You don't simply take any perceived elite QB prospect just because logic says you should. In fact, the majority of elite QB prospects are considerably flawed, though this can often be masked to varying degrees during their college careers and even the pre-draft stage, and it is why you have to take meticulous measures throughout.

You don't just keep swinging for the fences. That's a very nonsensical strategy that most NFL owners could not afford to make successively.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:36 PM
Steve Young, John Elway, Steve McNair all moved the chains with their legs, are we that far removed from those days? Maybe we shouldnt be.

How long has it been since those guys moved the chains with their legs? Its a pocket game these days, the running qb is dead. Because qbs cannot outrun nfl defenders, and they are too expensive and too important to take hits. And those guys were all better throwers than they were runners anyway.

The first statement is ******* stupid. Point blank.

I think you had visions of Peyton Manning flashing in your head when you made the second statement. You don't simply take any perceived elite QB prospect just because logic says you should. In fact, the majority of elite QB prospects are considerably flawed, though this can often be masked to varying degrees during their college careers and even the pre-draft stage, and it is why you have to take meticulous measures throughout.

You don't just keep swinging for the fences. That's a very nonsensical strategy that most NFL owners could not afford to make successively.


What happens if you pass and they hit? You know what happens when you pick kellen winslow and pass on #7? you lose for a decade and they win super bowls. The cost of passing and them hitting is higher than the cost of them busting. Gifted qbs bust. But they also hit, and if they hit and you passed, theres is no greater mistake in the football world.

prock
08-13-2010, 11:40 PM
How is locker more coached up in an nfl manner? lockers mobility is immaterial. Hes not going to be running in the nfl. Those days are over. Otherwise vince young, whos a far superior athlete and runner to locker, would be running around all over the place. Its an immaterial trait. Its a pocket league in 2010. There are no running qbs.

How is being a runner immaterial? Tell that to Culpepper, McNabb, McNair, Young, Elway, Vick, and other quarterbacks who successfully scrambled for years in the NFL. It adds a whole different dimension to an offense that a defense needs to compensate to account for. To say scrambling ability is immaterial is completely ignorant.

Jamarcus russel actually had a better winning percentage than calvin johnson. I didnt say they were all equal. I said you dont pass regardless of whether they may bust, because the cost of them panning out and you passing is higher than the cost of them busting. If they are an elite prospect. There have been qbs taken high in the draft than have not been elite prospects. See mark sanchez. Jamarcus russel was the right pick regardless of whether he busted. Calvin johnson was the wrong pick regardless of the fact hes been somewhat succesful. Theyre no worse off for having drafted a bust qb than the lions are having drafted a succesful wr.

You never take TEAM into account, so I am done preaching TEAM to you because it is obviously way over your head.

prock
08-13-2010, 11:44 PM
How long has it been since those guys moved the chains with their legs? Its a pocket game these days, the running qb is dead. Because qbs cannot outrun nfl defenders, and they are too expensive and too important to take hits. And those guys were all better throwers than they were runners anyway.

Jake Locker is also a better thrower than he is runner. The running quarterback isn't dead, there just aren't many who can do it.

What happens if you pass and they hit? You know what happens when you pick kellen winslow and pass on #7? you lose for a decade and they win super bowls. The cost of passing and them hitting is higher than the cost of them busting. Gifted qbs bust. But they also hit, and if they hit and you passed, theres is no greater mistake in the football world.

The Browns never picked Kellen Winslow over John Elway.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:44 PM
Calvin johnson hitting hasnt helped the detroit lions any more than busting on jamarcus russel has hurt the raiders. I do take team into account. Neither of them helped their team, even though one has been succesful and the other one was a bust.

Outside of michael vick, everyone of those guys was a better thrower than runner and theyre all retired or no longer a signifigant qb in the nfl. And vick was at least an average nfl thrower. Those guys didnt make their money running the ball. they made their money throwing it. As all qbs do.

619
08-13-2010, 11:44 PM
I can argue with this guy for days. I don't know if I want to, though.

Babylon
08-13-2010, 11:44 PM
How long has it been since those guys moved the chains with their legs? Its a pocket game these days, the running qb is dead. Because qbs cannot outrun nfl defenders, and they are too expensive and too important to take hits. And those guys were all better throwers than they were runners anyway.

I dont advocate running as a gameplan but it comes in handy when you're facing nickel and dime defenses. As for being able to outrun LBs i cant think of too many backers that can run with Jake Locker.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:47 PM
Jake Locker is also a better thrower than he is runner. The running quarterback isn't dead, there just aren't many who can do it.



The Browns never picked Kellen Winslow over John Elway.


Jake locker cant do it if vince young cant do it.

They picked kellen winslow over the qb with the most rings in the last five years. It is the biggest mistake you can make on draft day. Passing on a top end qb talent is the worst drafting decision you can make, unless you already have an elite qb talent on your team.

prock
08-13-2010, 11:48 PM
Jake locker cant do it if vince young cant do it.

They picked kellen winslow over the qb with the most rings in the last five years. It is the biggest mistake you can make on draft day. Passing on a top end qb talent is the worst drafting decision you can make, unless you already have an elite qb talent on your team.

Jake Locker has way more throwing ability than Young. And yes, Vince Young does move the chains with his legs.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:49 PM
I dont advocate running as a gameplan but it comes in handy when you're facing nickel and dime defenses. As for being able to outrun LBs i cant think of too many backers that can run with Jake Locker.

I think most of them surely can run with jake locker and put him in the ambulance when they catch him.
You cant afford to have your qb running the ball with intent other than slide or run out of bounds. You cannot afford to let them take hits, not from nfl defenders. They will die a quick death

marshallb
08-13-2010, 11:50 PM
Outside of michael vick, everyone of those guys was a better thrower than runner and theyre all retired or no longer a signifigant qb in the nfl. And vick was at least an average nfl thrower. Those guys didnt make their money running the ball. they made their money throwing it. As all qbs do.

I'm guessing that you've never actually seen Jake Locker play then if this is your argument against him.

prock
08-13-2010, 11:50 PM
Calvin johnson hitting hasnt helped the detroit lions any more than busting on jamarcus russel has hurt the raiders. I do take team into account. Neither of them helped their team, even though one has been succesful and the other one was a bust.

Outside of michael vick, everyone of those guys was a better thrower than runner and theyre all retired or no longer a signifigant qb in the nfl. And vick was at least an average nfl thrower. Those guys didnt make their money running the ball. they made their money throwing it. As all qbs do.

Calvin has helped his team more, but his team has been worse. Having a top end left tackle, for example, rather than Calvin would make Detroit no wins better. Having Joe Thomas doesn't obviously help Cleveland that much.

And Locker is a better thrower than runner, so I don't know what point your making. The game is not much different than it was 5 years ago, when Culpepper was a very good NFL QB and a runner up MVP. McNabb isn't a significant NFL QB? Whatever you say.

bce
08-13-2010, 11:52 PM
Jake Locker has way more throwing ability than Young. And yes, Vince Young does move the chains with his legs.

I dont think either of these statements are true. Theres no vince young designed run plays. His running is not part of the offense by design. And the statement that jake locker has more throwing ability than vy is opinion not based on fact, its hype and speculation.

Calvin has helped his team more, but his team has been worse. Having a top end left tackle, for example, rather than Calvin would make Detroit no wins better. Having Joe Thomas doesn't obviously help Cleveland that much.

And Locker is a better thrower than runner, so I don't know what point your making. The game is not much different than it was 5 years ago, when Culpepper was a very good NFL QB and a runner up MVP. McNabb isn't a significant NFL QB? Whatever you say.


They dont make money with their legs. They make it with their arm. So the idea that jake lockers running ability is going to be where he makes any money is simply not the case.

Calvin has helped his team more, but his team has been worse. Having a top end left tackle, for example, rather than Calvin would make Detroit no wins better. Having Joe Thomas doesn't obviously help Cleveland that much.

And Locker is a better thrower than runner, so I don't know what point your making. The game is not much different than it was 5 years ago, when Culpepper was a very good NFL QB and a runner up MVP. McNabb isn't a significant NFL QB? Whatever you say.


Drafting calvin johnson hasnt helped them one bit.

marshallb
08-13-2010, 11:55 PM
Have you not figured out the multi-quote or edit feature that this forum has? Is there any reason for you to have 3 or 4 consecutive posts like you constantly do?

EDIT: Also, I'm almost positive that no one here is arguing that Locker's athleticism and running ability "is going to be where he makes any money". People are saying that it will be beneficial and an asset, allowing him to escape the pocket when it's been collapsed, on broken plays, etc.

619
08-13-2010, 11:56 PM
Jake locker cant do it if vince young cant do it.

Stop correlating anything Vince Young has ever done in the league to whatever Jake Locker will do. There is NOTHING similar about them besides their 40 time.

Vince Young CAN run in the league, if that's what you're suggesting. He just can't play the QB position effectively, or intuitively to where he can be considered among the very best. Jake Locker is functionally a good distance ahead of where Vince Young is as a passer, even today. And he can run. Just as fast.

prock
08-13-2010, 11:56 PM
I think most of them surely can run with jake locker and put him in the ambulance when they catch him.
You cant afford to have your qb running the ball with intent other than slide or run out of bounds. You cannot afford to let them take hits, not from nfl defenders. They will die a quick death

So Jake Locker who is 6'3", 230lbs, and runs in the 4.4s is gonna get caught by the average NFL linebacker and get mauled? Good logic. Who says he won't slide? Just because he is a good runner doesn't mean who won't slide. In fact, an argument could be made that it means quite the opposite.

prock
08-13-2010, 11:59 PM
I dont think either of these statements are true. Theres no vince young designed run plays. His running is not part of the offense by design. And the statement that jake locker has more throwing ability than vy is opinion not based on fact, its hype and speculation.

OK, you have never seen either of them play then.

They dont make money with their legs. They make it with their arm. So the idea that jake lockers running ability is going to be where he makes any money is simply not the case.

They make money by playing the quarterback position, not by only sitting in the pocket and throwing, but by playing the position of quarterback, and sometimes that involves scrambling. Others do it more often and better than others.

Drafting calvin johnson hasnt helped them one bit.

Giving an elite weapon to a young developing quarterback hasn't helped them? OK, sure.

619
08-14-2010, 12:02 AM
Buddy, you have been KO'd.

Give it up.

bce
08-14-2010, 12:03 AM
since they are 2-30 the last two years, no it hasnt helped them at all.

Its a pocket passers league in 2010. You cant run the ball with your qb other than to get out of bounds or slide. You dont need to be a scrambling qb in todays nfl. Its a pocket passers league. Scrambling ability is a nice bonus, but its not a key componenet to succesful qb play.

back to mallett, if you need a qb, you cannot afford to pass on him. Regardless of whether he flames out, you just cant afford him panning out and you passing, thus he is the #1 player in the draft.

Buddy, you have been KO'd.

Give it up.

prock could never ko me.

prock
08-14-2010, 12:08 AM
since they are 2-30 the last two years, no it hasnt helped them at all.

Its a pocket passers league in 2010. You cant run the ball with your qb other than to get out of bounds or slide. You dont need to be a scrambling qb in todays nfl. Its a pocket passers league. Scrambling ability is a nice bonus, but its not a key componenet to succesful qb play.

back to mallett, if you need a qb, you cannot afford to pass on him. Regardless of whether he flames out, you just cant afford him panning out and you passing, thus he is the #1 player in the draft.

Exactly, it isn't necessary to be successful, but it creates a whole dimension that defenses have to compensate for. If you are seriously going to argue that Locker's scrambling ability is immaterial, you know nothing about football. Most quarterbacks are pocket passers, sure, but how does that have anything to do with Locker being able to scramble?

And yes, Mallet is an awesome prospect. I love him. I think he will go number 1. But right now, Locker is the more pro ready prospect, and has an incredibly rare skill set, though different from Mallet's.

619
08-14-2010, 12:14 AM
since they are 2-30 the last two years, no it hasnt helped them at all.

Its a pocket passers league in 2010. You cant run the ball with your qb other than to get out of bounds or slide. You dont need to be a scrambling qb in todays nfl. Its a pocket passers league. Scrambling ability is a nice bonus, but its not a key componenet to succesful qb play.

back to mallett, if you need a qb, you cannot afford to pass on him. Regardless of whether he flames out, you just cant afford him panning out and you passing, thus he is the #1 player in the draft.

You obviously don't believe in players that transcend positions, or the whole sport altogether for that matter. I'm not saying that Jake Locker is that player, but on the surface it definitely appears that he could be. Don't be scared to venture away from the norm, you'd be missing out on a whole lot of tangible assets that could add to production on the field, and which money can't buy.

ThePudge
08-14-2010, 12:16 AM
Bce, if St. Louis or Detroit wound up with the #1 pick in 2011 would you have them take Ryan Mallett?

prock
08-14-2010, 12:18 AM
They make money by playing the quarterback position, not by only sitting in the pocket and throwing, but by playing the position of quarterback, and sometimes that involves scrambling. Others do it more often and better than others.





So Jake Locker who is 6'3", 230lbs, and runs in the 4.4s is gonna get caught by the average NFL linebacker and get mauled? Good logic. Who says he won't slide? Just because he is a good runner doesn't mean who won't slide. In fact, an argument could be made that it means quite the opposite.

Still waiting for our favorite straw man to refute these points, rather than just choose to ignore them like he always does.

619
08-14-2010, 12:21 AM
I was gonna say, does this guy actually ******* read our posts?

There's a lack of communication here.

prock
08-14-2010, 12:24 AM
I was gonna say, does this guy actually ******* read our posts?

There's a lack of communication here.

No, he always does this. He picks and chooses which points he wants to refute, and pretends the other ones never happened. But, you have to understand logic before you can understand logical fallacies, right?

Borat
08-14-2010, 12:29 AM
Wow. Shocking. Another prospect of the day thread ruined by BCE. Can we just make posts discussing the prospect please? Leave the drafting philosophy and football theory to other threads. Really, is that too much to ask?

619
08-14-2010, 12:33 AM
Wow. Shocking. Another prospect of the day thread ruined by BCE. Can we just make posts discussing the prospect please? Leave the drafting philosophy and football theory to other threads. Really, is that too much to ask?

The funny thing is the dude wants to get all philosophical on us, yet he's not particularly good at it lol.

619
08-14-2010, 12:36 AM
No, he always does this. He picks and chooses which points he wants to refute, and pretends the other ones never happened. But, you have to understand logic before you can understand logical fallacies, right?

Sorry to double post, but from now on I'm gonna start calling this dude the Straw Man.

He sure earned it.

Brent
08-14-2010, 12:45 AM
I don't think you're getting me yet here....my issue wasn't with which QB they preferred, it was that so many of them didn't want a QB period. They wanted to take the LT so they could protect a QB they acquire some other time, or take a defensive player since their defense was so bad or something dumb like that.
No, I got you, and I am telling you that was how they felt. I know this because I defended them many times, saying that Stafford was better than Sanchez and should go #1.

Babylon
08-14-2010, 12:10 PM
I think most of them surely can run with jake locker and put him in the ambulance when they catch him.
You cant afford to have your qb running the ball with intent other than slide or run out of bounds. You cannot afford to let them take hits, not from nfl defenders. They will die a quick death

First off there are only a few linbackers who could run with Jake Locker, some of who will be on the bench in 3rd and long.

ThePudge
08-14-2010, 12:44 PM
We're able to talk about the prospects until bce comes in with ridiculous statements & ties them in with his prospect analysis. But, of course, this is humorous rather than trolling. He's an asset because he encourages discussion & activity. Quantity over Quality I suppose.

Ryan Mallett is an extremely interesting prospect and there's a lot to learn for those who haven't seen much along with a lot to speculate for those who have seen him plenty. Can anyone provide an anecdote about Mallett's attitude to teammates/coaches or even fellow students at Arkansas? In Ann Arbor he butted heads with a few people and got himself a bit of a reputation. All I can break down is what I see on the field through his body language, which would suggest he's a developing leader, fiery and passionate, and has good control in the huddle. Anyone have anything to add?

Hurricanes25
08-14-2010, 12:53 PM
Ryan Mallett is an extremely interesting prospect and there's a lot to learn for those who haven't seen much along with a lot to speculate for those who have seen him plenty. Can anyone provide an anecdote about Mallett's attitude to teammates/coaches or even fellow students at Arkansas? In Ann Arbor he butted heads with a few people and got himself a bit of a reputation. All I can break down is what I see on the field through his body language, which would suggest he's a developing leader, fiery and passionate, and has good control in the huddle. Anyone have anything to add?

I've read that he has matured but I guess we'll never know for sure unless there is some sort of issue. I'm just going by what I read in an article a few months ago. (I'll try and find the article.)
Edit: http://www.arkansassports360.com/14702/07/05/07/28/2010


On the field, his attitude kind of reminds me of Philip Rivers which is a good thing.

ThePudge
08-14-2010, 01:17 PM
Phillip Rivers is the character I use for a comparison for Mallett's on-field demeanor. Very competitive, very passionate, but might hold his teammates accountable.

bce
08-14-2010, 02:44 PM
So Jake Locker who is 6'3", 230lbs, and runs in the 4.4s is gonna get caught by the average NFL linebacker and get mauled? Good logic. Who says he won't slide? Just because he is a good runner doesn't mean who won't slide. In fact, an argument could be made that it means quite the opposite.

I'll believe this when it I see it. Im not buying that jake locker is faster than your average nfl wr. Sounds like hype.

Exactly, it isn't necessary to be successful, but it creates a whole dimension that defenses have to compensate for. If you are seriously going to argue that Locker's scrambling ability is immaterial, you know nothing about football. Most quarterbacks are pocket passers, sure, but how does that have anything to do with Locker being able to scramble?

And yes, Mallet is an awesome prospect. I love him. I think he will go number 1. But right now, Locker is the more pro ready prospect, and has an incredibly rare skill set, though different from Mallet's.

Nobody compensates for running qbs, and jake locker has a very average at best skill set.The idea that he will be a running threat in the nfl or anyone will have to compensate for him running its just not going to happen that way.

pro ready, is another compensation term for "less talented"

Bce, if St. Louis or Detroit wound up with the #1 pick in 2011 would you have them take Ryan Mallett?

You dont pass unless you have recently taken a qb or already have a qb, as stated previously. Since they just took a qb, they obviously wouldnt draft another one there. Any team that needs an elite talent at qb should not pass, under pretty much any normal circumstances.

BeerBaron
08-14-2010, 02:56 PM
Dude, knock it with the back to back to back to back posts....especially when they're only a few minutes apart. Either say what you're going to say all at once or edit in stuff you want to add.

bce
08-14-2010, 03:02 PM
Dude, knock it with the back to back to back to back posts....especially when they're only a few minutes apart. Either say what you're going to say all at once or edit in stuff you want to add.

Dont worry about what im doing and dont tell me what to do.

CameronCropper
08-14-2010, 09:35 PM
I think it all depends on the situation your team is in.

If you've got a decent offensive line and running game (for example the Seahawks), then I'd take Jake Locker without even the slightest bit of hesitation. Even though he's the less polished of the two, I think with his upside and the fact you're not totally rebuilding, you've got to take that gamble.

If you're the Buffalo Bills and you're rebuilding your offense from scratch, then you take Ryan Mallett. I think the physical tools and the fact he's more NFL ready than Locker would make it the safer pick in this situation, but it's definitely up in the air between the two of them.

Where they're at right now I wouldn't be suprised to see either of them go #1 overall, but this year will definitely be telling. If Locker makes a leap comparable to the one he made last season, I think he's a lock for the #1 overall pick IMO.

Gribble
08-14-2010, 10:23 PM
Drafting calvin johnson hasnt helped them one bit.

http://videogum.com/img/thumbnails/photos/you_mad.jpg

Babylon
08-15-2010, 04:48 PM
I think it all depends on the situation your team is in.

If you've got a decent offensive line and running game (for example the Seahawks), then I'd take Jake Locker without even the slightest bit of hesitation. Even though he's the less polished of the two, I think with his upside and the fact you're not totally rebuilding, you've got to take that gamble.

If you're the Buffalo Bills and you're rebuilding your offense from scratch, then you take Ryan Mallett. I think the physical tools and the fact he's more NFL ready than Locker would make it the safer pick in this situation, but it's definitely up in the air between the two of them.

Where they're at right now I wouldn't be suprised to see either of them go #1 overall, but this year will definitely be telling. If Locker makes a leap comparable to the one he made last season, I think he's a lock for the #1 overall pick IMO.

Define decent please.

ThePudge
08-15-2010, 06:00 PM
seriously? 3 pages of posts and about 8 that have anything to do with ryan mallett? awesome.

Are the mods going to do what's necessary though? Sure, everyone is partially at fault for these threads going off topic; however, the same thing has sparked it every single time. Some of us were glad & took it seriously when you gave 'bce' his final warning. He's proceeded to do what he's done in the two months that he's been here, ruin perfectly stimulating discussions.

At this point, it's getting ridiculous. I know summer is a slow time for these boards, but quantity shouldn't be valued more than quality. The same people who were on every day during the season seem to be on every day now, there's just less current events to talk about. We try to exchange thoughts/ideas and information about prospects but

I would love to talk about Ryan Mallett, I'm sure many others would too. This Quarterback class as a whole is very interesting. We have a cancer on these boards though and as a whole the moderators don't seem to care. It's fair to get angry that threads have been steered far off topic and out of control, we all share that frustration even if we're (unfortunately) taking part in the off-topic discussion. I'm ready for this place to go back to a great place to discuss football & the draft.

I'm not entirely in favor of banning him, as sometimes he's just sharing his very delusional opinon; however, is there any way that he can get one thread ("Debating with bce") for expressing his ideas/opinions/frustrations with others? That way we can see and really choose what to respond to instead of him bursting into a thread, posting 3-4 times in a row, and disrupting the entire discussion.

By the way, anyone here a Razorbacks fan/student? I'm still trying to learn more about Mallett as a teammate/person outside of what's visible on tv.

prock
08-15-2010, 08:15 PM
I personally think that this thread was inevitably going to end up being about Locker. When talking about either of these prospects, they will be compared to each other all year and beyond. Bce is just the catalyst to every unnecessary tangent these threads take.

BeerBaron
08-15-2010, 08:17 PM
I don't see it njx...unless it's the Locker talk you don't like, and like Prock said, it's going to be inevitable that one gets talked about anytime the other one is. Everything was about Mallett, comparing Mallett to Locker, or drafting QBs in general right up until BCE joined in.

prock
08-15-2010, 08:43 PM
That is because the only controversial thing (not the exact same thing everyone else said) was some stupid off subject ******** about "#7" and how picking Jamarcus Russell was the right pick even though he busted harder than just about anyone else in history.

Babylon
08-15-2010, 11:44 PM
Not sure how we're supposed to keep a thread going without a few sidebars here and there. As much as i like Ryan Mallett i dont see how you can get much more than a page talking exclusively about him.

bce
08-16-2010, 06:08 PM
Are the mods going to do what's necessary though? Sure, everyone is partially at fault for these threads going off topic; however, the same thing has sparked it every single time. Some of us were glad & took it seriously when you gave 'bce' his final warning. He's proceeded to do what he's done in the two months that he's been here, ruin perfectly stimulating discussions.

At this point, it's getting ridiculous. I know summer is a slow time for these boards, but quantity shouldn't be valued more than quality. The same people who were on every day during the season seem to be on every day now, there's just less current events to talk about. We try to exchange thoughts/ideas and information about prospects but

I would love to talk about Ryan Mallett, I'm sure many others would too. This Quarterback class as a whole is very interesting. We have a cancer on these boards though and as a whole the moderators don't seem to care. It's fair to get angry that threads have been steered far off topic and out of control, we all share that frustration even if we're (unfortunately) taking part in the off-topic discussion. I'm ready for this place to go back to a great place to discuss football & the draft.

I'm not entirely in favor of banning him, as sometimes he's just sharing his very delusional opinon; however, is there any way that he can get one thread ("Debating with bce") for expressing his ideas/opinions/frustrations with others? That way we can see and really choose what to respond to instead of him bursting into a thread, posting 3-4 times in a row, and disrupting the entire discussion.

By the way, anyone here a Razorbacks fan/student? I'm still trying to learn more about Mallett as a teammate/person outside of what's visible on t



Your wasting your time rallying the herd. theyre already rallied that boats sailed with others. Youre just trying to get back your throne as unfettered genius. Your just a "faux genius" regurgitating speculation spit out by nolan nawrocki. Theres nothing inappropriate about this thread. people are discussing things relevant to ryan mallett, even though they may not say his name.

You just want your unfettered faux genius pats on the back to return thats really all your posting about, complaining about hijacked threads so you can hijack them with your faux analyses so you can look like you actually know what youre talking about.

Isnt that just the simple truth. You dont see me asking for people to be banned accusing them of hijacking threads because they say something that refutes what i say.

That is the tactic of the fearful. Im not afraid to go toe to toe with anyone. I welcome it, i embrace it, occasionally (although not from you) i learn from it.

maybe you should learn something from that.

yourfavestoner
08-16-2010, 06:45 PM
Your wasting your time rallying the herd. theyre already rallied that boats sailed with others. Youre just trying to get back your throne as unfettered genius. Your just a "faux genius" regurgitating speculation spit out by nolan nawrocki. Theres nothing inappropriate about this thread. people are discussing things relevant to ryan mallett, even though they may not say his name.

You just want your unfettered faux genius pats on the back to return thats really all your posting about, complaining about hijacked threads so you can hijack them with your faux analyses so you can look like you actually know what youre talking about.

Isnt that just the simple truth. You dont see me asking for people to be banned accusing them of hijacking threads because they say something that refutes what i say.

That is the tactic of the fearful. Im not afraid to go toe to toe with anyone. I welcome it, i embrace it, occasionally (although not from you) i learn from it.

maybe you should learn something from that.

Oh, the irony.

yourfavestoner
08-16-2010, 06:52 PM
in fact, that's not true at all in this thread. please look back at who started discussing the qb/wr/who should take a qb/some fans are idiots discussion. bce wasn't even involved until much later in the discussion.



i also disagree with banning people because they're unpopular. had bce initiated the off-topic garbage in this thread, his last warning truly would've been his last warning. i feel it's entirely unfair to blame him for participating in off topic crap that was going well before he started.

*shrug* i've chosen not to delete posts in this thread for this very reason. mallett is, arguably, one of the top two qbs in the league. and it took less than a page for others to stop discussing him entirely. without bce. it might be time for a look in the mirror (nothing personal; i mean that in general).

I agree with this. Banning people for having disseminating opinions or being unpopular only opens Pandora's Box to an overregulated board. He has the same right to post here as anybody else and hasn't broken any rules.

I don't even necessarily disagree with everything he says. It's not that his arguments don't have any validity; it's that he is completely incapable of forming a logical argument, staying away from logical fallacies, and he fails to respond to points made against him.

His arrogance definitely isn'tdoing anything to endear himself to anybody, though. In that sense, giving him his own thread is worse than banning him, as it will lead to a sort of weird self-validation.

He's the new RickyBobby. He's here solely to ruffle your guys' feathers. React accordingly.

wonderbredd24
08-16-2010, 07:15 PM
I agree with this. Banning people for having disseminating opinions or being unpopular only opens Pandora's Box to an overregulated board. He has the same right to post here as anybody else and hasn't broken any rules.

I don't even necessarily disagree with everything he says. It's not that his arguments don't have any validity; it's that he is completely incapable of forming a logical argument, staying away from logical fallacies, and a failure to respond to all points made against him (instead of picking and choosing what points work in his favor).

His arrogance definitely isn'tdoing anything to endear himself to anybody, though. In that sense, giving him his own thread is worse than banning him, as it will lead to a sort of weird self-validation.

He's the new RickyBobby. He's here solely to ruffle your guys' feathers. React accordingly.
Agreed... there's an ignore button if nothing else works

Babylon
08-16-2010, 09:18 PM
either way, he posted garbage in spite of his final warning, after i went out of my way to defend him here. so he's done in this incarnation.

that said, when he creates a new uid, i will ******* stab people if every thread fills up with people accusing the new dude of being him. hit ignore, stop worrying about it.

this will, i hope, be the last time his name is ever mentioned on the draft or nfl board.

we now return you to the jake locker thread.

A sense of humor from njx9. Well done.

prock
08-16-2010, 10:35 PM
Yay! Draftcountdown is awesome again!

But in all seriousness, Mallet will probably the top quarterback taken if he continues to develop. The tools are just too good.

wonderbredd24
08-17-2010, 08:49 AM
Yay! Draftcountdown is awesome again!

But in all seriousness, Mallet will probably the top quarterback taken if he continues to develop. The tools are just too good.

You have no idea how much I want you to be right.

It's gonna be interesting to see how Mayock reacts to seeing Mallett's arm live.

Babylon
08-17-2010, 10:45 AM
You have no idea how much I want you to be right.

It's gonna be interesting to see how Mayock reacts to seeing Mallett's arm live.

Mayock wasnt exactly gushing over Stafford's arm which to me is at least as good if not better.

wonderbredd24
08-17-2010, 10:47 AM
Mayock wasnt exactly gushing over Stafford's arm which to me is at least as good if not better.

Stafford's arm is tremendous and I think Stafford is going to be an absolute stud, but I think Mallett's is stronger.

AntoinCD
08-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Stafford's arm is tremendous and I think Stafford is going to be an absolute stud, but I think Mallett's is stronger.

Agreed. I think Mallett has the biggest arm of a top prospect since Russell. I don't personally like Mallett as much as Stafford but I think he is a better prospect than Locker.

georgiafan
08-17-2010, 11:22 AM
Mallett put all his stats up agianst bad defeneses last year he was much worse agianst the good teams he faced like UF and bama.

Babylon
08-17-2010, 12:42 PM
Mallett put all his stats up agianst bad defeneses last year he was much worse agianst the good teams he faced like UF and bama.

He wasnt good against those guys compared say to Stafford who had success against good teams in his 3 years at UGA. I need to see more from Mallett in terms of leadership, accuracy, avoiding a rush.....a great arm is only going to get you so far. Having said all that if he has a good year i could see a place like Buffalo, where you need a strong arm, being a landing spot for him.

katnip
08-17-2010, 01:05 PM
I know Mallet's arm is stronger then Matt Ryan's, & they're different players (skill set?). But I can see Mallett having an immediate impact. Of course other things have to go right. NFL team, system, etc. But I think Mallett will be a good NFL QB. He'll be better then Bradford who's stuck on the Rams.

Any1 have a good NFL comparison for him. I saw Drew Bledsoe before.

yourfavestoner
08-17-2010, 01:18 PM
He wasnt good against those guys compared say to Stafford who had success against good teams in his 3 years at UGA. I need to see more from Mallett in terms of leadership, accuracy, avoiding a rush.....a great arm is only going to get you so far. Having said all that if he has a good year i could see a place like Buffalo, where you need a strong arm, being a landing spot for him.

Meh, Stafford had a great game against UF his sophomore year (probably the best game of his college career), but followed it up with a three-pick stinker his junior season.

Stafford's "production" in the SEC was always overrated from the beginning. He had some very nice games, sure, but he didn't dominate the SEC like people think he did. He was drafted more on upside than production.

LizardState
08-17-2010, 02:03 PM
Isnt that just the simple truth. You dont see me asking for people to be banned accusing them of hijacking threads because they say something that refutes what i say.

That is the tactic of the fearful. Im not afraid to go toe to toe with anyone. I welcome it, i embrace it, occasionally (although not from you) i learn from it.

Didnt learn not to tug on Superman's cape did you? Only the very naive or foolish continuously provoke other posters, offer to take on all comers anytime & push the TOU envelope we all signed up to abide by when we joined.

It's one thing to digress off the thread topic, quite another thing to hijack the whole freaking thread, & that's all I'll say.

About Mallett: He seems to have the best & most obvious arc of development into an NFL-ready QB of the next draft's crop of QBs. I haven't seen much of Ponder or Locker (mostly b/c the Washington Huskies were so bad they weren't on TV much on the West Coast until recently), but Mallett showed considerable improvement in game mgmt. & leadership as well as passing accuracy last yr. vs. tough SEC opponents, not so much @ Bama but he rallied the Razorbacks to almost beat Florida in the Swamp, with a few of those controversial flags falling the other way they would have beaten the Gators.

And when you consider Mallett transferred into Arkansas & had to learn a new system with a new HC that yr. he was able to start on their FB team (I think he had to sit a yr) you're even more impressed. Not too much of a stretch to say he's the best QB in the conference at this time. Their offense is scary good & with a better defense they would be the SEC West favorite, on paper anyway

Babylon
08-17-2010, 03:25 PM
Didnt learn not to tug on Superman's cape did you? Only the very naive or foolish continuously provoke other posters, offer to take on all comers anytime & push the TOU envelope we all signed up to abide by when we joined.

It's one thing to digress off the thread topic, quite another thing to hijack the whole freaking thread, & that's all I'll say.

About Mallett: He seems to have the best & most obvious arc of development into an NFL-ready QB of the next draft's crop of QBs. I haven't seen much of Ponder or Locker (mostly b/c the Washington Huskies were so bad they weren't on TV much on the West Coast until recently), but Mallett showed considerable improvement in game mgmt. & leadership as well as passing accuracy last yr. vs. tough SEC opponents, not so much @ Bama but he rallied the Razorbacks to almost beat Florida in the Swamp, with a few of those controversial flags falling the other way they would have beaten the Gators.

And when you consider Mallett transferred into Arkansas & had to learn a new system with a new HC that yr. he was able to start on their FB team (I think he had to sit a yr) you're even more impressed. Not too much of a stretch to say he's the best QB in the conference at this time. Their offense is scary good & with a better defense they would be the SEC West favorite, on paper anyway

Actually Mallett and the other guy have had a somewhat similar road. Both are now playing with more pro style coaches and really only have one year in the present system. As for their respective teams neither have an A.J. Green or a Julio Jones to throw to so their production i think is somewhat limited. Looking for a good year for both though and a very early call on draft day.

JHL6719
08-17-2010, 04:30 PM
Mallet had a real stinker against Bama's defense.... but so does every QB they face... Mallet completed only 34% of his passes, for 160 yards, a 4.6 average, and 1-TD/1-INT...


Stafford had a similar stinker against Bama's defense the year before.... the stats ended up making it seem a lot better than it was.... but Stafford was 8/14, for 58 yards, and 0-TD/1-INT at halftime of that game....

Bama was up 31-3 at halftime and called off the dogs in the second half which allowed Stafford to pad his stats in the 3rd-4th quarters...

I'm not really sure how I would rank the QB's at this moment..

BeerBaron
08-17-2010, 04:43 PM
I'm not really sure how I would rank the QB's at this moment..

This is what I've got as it stands:

____Top 5___
1a.) Locker
1b.) Mallett
____Top Half of Round 1____
2.) Luck if he comes out, unlikely imo
____Late First_______
3.) Ponder

San Diego Chicken
08-17-2010, 05:43 PM
Very very gifted player, but also very risky if he's going in the top 5.

descendency
08-17-2010, 05:45 PM
I think all of this talk about Mallett (both pro and con) forgets that this was his first year running the system he did and that it typically takes 2 years to get comfortable in a system. he could easily stay until year 4.

ThePudge
08-17-2010, 05:46 PM
Mallett put all his stats up agianst bad defeneses last year he was much worse agianst the good teams he faced like UF and bama.

Really now? 28 Td & 6 Ints in a full-season in the SEC and he did it only against bad defenses? What's Georgia (his best game of the year)? Texas A&M is complete garbage? South Carolina? Auburn? Mississippi State? He had an exceptional game against LSU if you look to the tape instead of the box score. The Razorbacks would have won that game had it not been for roughly 4-5 big drops in the game's final 3 minutes.

Basically, he didn't light up the 1st & 2nd best defenses in the nation (Florida/Alabama). His team was severely overmatched; still, against the Gators, Mallett managed to make the game competitive losing only by a FG. I have to try to get my hands on tape from the Mississippi game in which he had one of his poorest statistical games of the season, yet that game was within a Td going into the 4th Quarter. He was under a lot of heat that game from Ole Miss' front seven & of course drops played a factor.

There was never a game all year in which he threw more Interceptions than Touchdowns, he was victimized by drops all season long, and he kept his team competitive against some of his league's best competition (vs. Florida/LSU.) His receivers, running game, and Offensive Line weren't close to on-par with most SEC teams, yet Ryan Mallett made the Razorbacks very competitive last season. Another year of experience for their big QB and young WRs could very well make Arkansas a surprise BCS Bowl contender this season.

San Diego Chicken
08-17-2010, 05:57 PM
I remember that LSU game well and it perfectly personifies Mallett. He was able to drive them down the field and tie the game and had some fabulous throws. But sprinkled in were some throws that whizzed above the recievers head and one really bad play in the end zone where he was high and almost got his reciever killed (literally one of the most violent plays I've ever seen - both the S and WR were down for several minutes).

I just think the guy throws the ball TOO HARD sometimes. Arm Strength is great but it's more important to throw a catchable ball. That could be worked on over time.

BeerBaron
08-17-2010, 05:59 PM
I just think the guy throws the ball TOO HARD sometimes. Arm Strength is great but it's more important to throw a catchable ball. That could be worked on over time.

Quite a few QBs with great arm strength tend to have a problem with taking off some of the velocity when it's not needed. It's something he'll have to learn and hopefully break that habit.

JHL6719
08-17-2010, 06:08 PM
Georgia's defense was pretty awful.... one of the worst coached defenses in the country last year... especially from a fundamentals standpoint... which is why they fired Martinez.

I agree that Mallet throws the ball too hard sometimes and his accuracy is VERY sporadic.... but it was his first year starting and in the SEC on top of that. I love his upside if he can learn to play better situational football... he doesn't lack intensity or leadership qualities... which is a huge plus.

Brent
08-17-2010, 06:09 PM
Texas A&M is complete garbage?
outside Von Miller and Trent Hunter, our defense is pretty bad.

Mr. Offseason
08-18-2010, 09:37 AM
Really now? 28 Td & 6 Ints in a full-season in the SEC and he did it only against bad defenses? What's Georgia (his best game of the year)? Texas A&M is complete garbage? South Carolina? Auburn? Mississippi State? He had an exceptional game against LSU if you look to the tape instead of the box score. The Razorbacks would have won that game had it not been for roughly 4-5 big drops in the game's final 3 minutes.

Basically, he didn't light up the 1st & 2nd best defenses in the nation (Florida/Alabama). His team was severely overmatched; still, against the Gators, Mallett managed to make the game competitive losing only by a FG. I have to try to get my hands on tape from the Mississippi game in which he had one of his poorest statistical games of the season, yet that game was within a Td going into the 4th Quarter. He was under a lot of heat that game from Ole Miss' front seven & of course drops played a factor.

There was never a game all year in which he threw more Interceptions than Touchdowns, he was victimized by drops all season long, and he kept his team competitive against some of his league's best competition (vs. Florida/LSU.) His receivers, running game, and Offensive Line weren't close to on-par with most SEC teams, yet Ryan Mallett made the Razorbacks very competitive last season. Another year of experience for their big QB and young WRs could very well make Arkansas a surprise BCS Bowl contender this season.

9 of his 28 touchdowns came against Missouri State, Eastern Michigan and Troy... Those aren't exactly vaunted defenses or programs.

And I don't know why you are mentioning Georgia and Texas A&M... yes he played well in both games, but Georgia's defense was very bad last year, as was Texas A&M's. Did you watch Georgia vs Texas A&M? There was barely any defense played the entire length of the game. Bringing those games up for Mallett is not very good evidence of the level of competition he faced.

But I tend not to care that much about the level of competition, I just don't like it when people bring up bad defenses that prospects beat up on to make up for the fact that they looked bad against very good defenses (like Florida and Alabama).

Personally I think Mallett is a top 15 pick, but he will probably go top 10 at least if he comes out. He is extremely gifted, his arm strength is amazing, but he needs significant work on his footwork and fundamentals in my opinion. It will be interesting to see what kind of strides he makes this year, because he has a ton of potential, but I'm not sold on him yet to be sure.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-18-2010, 11:48 AM
9 of his 28 touchdowns came against Missouri State, Eastern Michigan and Troy... Those aren't exactly vaunted defenses or programs.

Eh. 32% of his touchdowns came in 23% of his games. That's not exactly the most damning statistic in the world.

yourfavestoner
03-20-2011, 07:52 PM
At this point, I feel pretty confident in saying that Mallett is far and away the best prospect of this draft class. He can make every throw with ease, ball placement is usually spot on, has a nice compact windup, and can make throws with defenders draped off on his body. As far as negatives go, everyone already knows them. He's immobile (definitely not slowfooted in his drops, though). He has a bad habit of taking sacks trying to find an open receiver instead of just throwing the ball away. And that drive at the end of the Sugar Bowl definitely leaves a stink.

I think his upside is just as high as Gabbert's or Newton's, and his throwing mechanics are (by far) the best of the top prospects. If he makes it past Arizona, he's a steal.

Brent
03-20-2011, 08:24 PM
I think his upside is just as high as Gabbert's or Newton's, and his throwing mechanics are (by far) the best of the top prospects. If he makes it past Arizona, he's a steal.
have you been watching his games? I think all this Newton and Gabbert hype might make him seem like he's going too high.

yourfavestoner
03-20-2011, 08:56 PM
have you been watching his games? I think all this Newton and Gabbert hype might make him seem like he's going too high.

So far I've watched the Sugar Bowl and vs. LSU and came away very impressed. I'll probably watch one more of game film on him.

I will say that I like him infinitely more than Newton or Gabbert, but most know that I'm not enamored with either of them. As of right now, though, Scott doesn't have him in his top 32 prospects or going in the first round.

49erNation85
03-20-2011, 09:48 PM
Where are u guys getting game footage from ?

yourfavestoner
03-20-2011, 09:57 PM
Where are u guys getting game footage from ?

ESPN3 and SEC Digital Network.

DcmRulz
03-20-2011, 10:01 PM
IMO, Mallett has the highest ceiling of the QBs, and also the lowest floor. i would be scared to take him without knowing that he won't have to carry the team from day 1.

49erNation85
03-20-2011, 10:04 PM
well crap only way to get sec mobile is on my phone maybe later.Any other places?

gpngc
03-20-2011, 10:08 PM
I read somewhere a scout said "He thinks he's Eminem." LOLZ.

yourfavestoner
03-20-2011, 10:48 PM
I read somewhere a scout said "He thinks he's Eminem." LOLZ.

That's the ultimate question with him: are the off-field rumors true? I forgot if it was Katt Williams or Dave Chappelle but the joke was "If people have been saying you're a crack head for x amount of years...well...***** you're probably a crackhead." I don't know him so I obviously can't comment (even though I've joked around about it in the past), and I know this is the age of the internet-rumor, but constant, persistent assertions like that definitely are an eyebrow raiser. I tend to give guys the benefit of the doubt and just judge their on-field product.

gpngc
03-20-2011, 11:28 PM
That's the ultimate question with him: are the off-field rumors true? I forgot if it was Katt Williams or Dave Chappelle but the joke was "If people have been saying you're a crack head for x amount of years...well...***** you're probably a crackhead." I don't know him so I obviously can't comment (even though I've joked around about it in the past), and I know this is the age of the internet-rumor, but constant, persistent assertions like that definitely are an eyebrow raiser. I tend to give guys the benefit of the doubt and just judge their on-field product.

I'm not sure I really even care if they're true...

Thinking you're eminem and blowing coke are not honorable qualities but they haven't stopped him from achieving some success at the college level. His recreational drug use becomes a problem when it affects his performance negatively, and I'm not sure it really has. Plus, he's a ******* kid. A lot of kids mature as they grow older.

I'd be much more concerned with his on-field flaws than all the rumors about his personality issues to be honest.

And this is actually a player that I'd be interested to find out his wonderlic. I'd much rather have a guy who parties hard because he's an arrogant asshole than someone who is just stupid. I think I read that his Arkansas teammates all liked him so I'm not sure he's a bad lockerroom guy - again, something I find more important than his partying habits.

Wrathman
03-20-2011, 11:38 PM
I'm not sure I really even care if they're true...

Thinking you're eminem and blowing coke are not honorable qualities but they haven't stopped him from achieving some success at the college level. His recreational drug use becomes a problem when it affects his performance negatively, and I'm not sure it really has. Plus, he's a ******* kid. A lot of kids mature as they grow older.

I'd be much more concerned with his on-field flaws than all the rumors about his personality issues to be honest.

And this is actually a player that I'd be interested to find out his wonderlic. I'd much rather have a guy who parties hard because he's an arrogant asshole than someone who is just stupid. I think I read that his Arkansas teammates all liked him so I'm not sure he's a bad lockerroom guy - again, something I find more important than his partying habits.

I don't care if the kid thinks he's M&M, but I do care if he is taking coke. So does every NFL team that is remotely interested in him.

Wonderlic scores have been out for a while now. Here are the QBs in the draft that matter and McElroy as a reference point:

Greg McElroy - 43
Colin Kaepernick - 37
Christian Ponder - 35
Blaine Gabbert - 31
Ricky Stanzi - 30
Andy Dalton - 29
Ryan Mallett - 26
Cam Newton - 21
Jake Locker - 20

nepg
03-21-2011, 12:11 AM
The stats didn't come out that great, but I thought he was solid against Alabama. Especially early in the game. Arkansas just got out-talented in that game.

yourfavestoner
03-21-2011, 12:49 AM
The stats didn't come out that great, but I thought he was solid against Alabama. Especially early in the game. Arkansas just got out-talented in that game.

Pretty much. Like someone else said in this thread, they did it to Matt Stafford, too. They made a lot of good QBs look really, really bad.

FUNBUNCHER
03-21-2011, 06:12 AM
When a scout says that Mallett thinks he's Eminem, ( idiot comment to make by a middle aged man about a twentysomething anyway....did Mallett say 'I wake up in the morning believing me and Dre are bois!!!'??), IMO it's CODE for, ' if you closed your eyes and listened to this dude talk, you would swear he was a Black guy.'

(In a way I hope Mallett goes to the Titans, he would become a legend in Nashville!!)

I don't know why but I've read this criticism about Mallett more than once on the interwebz, (still don't understand why it's considered a real negative against him), and I believe it's the source of the rumors that Mallett is an 'idiot'.

As for the rest of his supposed red flags, there's no credible source that I've seen to suggest any of the rumors are even true, or that Mallett has a 'problem'.

nepg
03-21-2011, 07:34 AM
Agreed. I think 99% of the hate on this guy is based on how he talks. Which is BS. That's not something that's easily changed, and it's not necessarily representative of intelligence.

hockey619
03-21-2011, 08:45 AM
That's the ultimate question with him: are the off-field rumors true? I forgot if it was Katt Williams or Dave Chappelle but the joke was "If people have been saying you're a crack head for x amount of years...well...***** you're probably a crackhead." I don't know him so I obviously can't comment (even though I've joked around about it in the past), and I know this is the age of the internet-rumor, but constant, persistent assertions like that definitely are an eyebrow raiser. I tend to give guys the benefit of the doubt and just judge their on-field product.

said the same type of thing in a number of threads. we have no evidence that he did anything wrong. rumors are just that, rumors. i think the farther he falls, the more legit they are though. if he falls out of the first itll be because teams really did find something on him. if he falls to late first or still early in the second, then maybe they were just as worked up over rumors as a lot of people here have been.

hes gotten much better every year hes been in college. And i really mean MUCH better. as a freshman his accuracy was atrocious, his games at michigan showed he really needed to practice his timing and speed up his mechanics. Last year his ball placement was questionable but hes improved that and his decision making a lot, although he makes some questionable throws occassionally. This year he looks like hes really put it together. As ive said a number of times, I think based on everything we can prove and see hes the best qb in the class.