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View Full Version : Why did Eli Manning refuse to play for the San Diego Chargers?


Ness
08-14-2010, 04:31 PM
I randomly thought about this the other day when watching some preseason football. To this day I'm still not certain why. Perhaps it was explained at some point, but from what I know it's not entirely clear. If anyone has some insight, I'd love to hear it. I did find this on the web though from some poster on Yahoo. Quite interesting:
Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning came out of college together and, as the two hot QB prospects that year, compared notes from time to time about their experiences. After they were drafted, Manning told Leaf about how well the Colts organization treated him. They basically bent over backward to make his transition to the NFL as smooth as possible, taking care of all the non-football stuff so Peyton could concentrate on immersing himself into the Colts offense. Manning was stunned to hear that Leaf's experience was completely different. Our golfing partner said that Leaf was basically left to figure it out for himself. If that's true, you combine it with the legendary stories about what an immature jerk Leaf is and begin understand why he crashed so quickly. Again, this is coming from a family friend. Who knows what the Chargers did or did not do for their rookie QB, or whether their management team was equipped to deal with such a high-maintenance player. Regardless of who was at fault for the failed Leaf-Chargers marriage, the allegedly shabby treatment of Leaf stuck with the Manning clan. And, our new golf buddy explained, that's why Archie Manning, the patriarch, threw such a fit on draft day when Eli was picked by San Diego.

That combined with the fact that they didn't think that the Chargers was a team that drove to be successful.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090906093940AAVEDpK

thenewfeature06
08-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Maybe the MGMT is better in NY? lolol

Brent
08-14-2010, 04:42 PM
I hardly think that Yahoo Answers is an acceptable resource.

That said, I just figured they saw the turmoil facing the Chargers at that point in time and wanted nothing to do with it.

Ness
08-14-2010, 04:56 PM
That said, I just figured they saw the turmoil facing the Chargers at that point in time and wanted nothing to do with it.

That is what I assumed. But the Manning family had no issues with Peyton going to the Colts...a franchise that was the NFL's doormat at the time.

bored of education
08-14-2010, 05:04 PM
It was mostly Eli's camp/father that wanted him to NOT GO TO SD.

LizardState
08-14-2010, 05:08 PM
It was mostly Eli's camp/father that wanted him to NOT GO TO SD.

True. And the fact that he wanted to be in the #1 media mkt. in the country & appear on more TV sets on Sundays than he would have in SD.

Ness
08-14-2010, 05:14 PM
It was mostly Eli's camp/father that wanted him to NOT GO TO SD.

That's a pretty terrible gamble to take. They didn't know New York was going to be the team to trade up. I highly doubt they would have planned that out. And San Diego is a good market for football in it's own right. Besides if that truly was the case somehow/someway, then why did Archie let Peyton go to Indianapolis of all places?

descendency
08-14-2010, 05:21 PM
And San Diego is a good market for football in it's own right.

No, it isn't. The fans almost had a blackout because it was going to drizzle.

It was Round 1 Titans @ Chargers, in 2007.

There are more soft NFL Chargers "fans" than there are Jets fans total.

Having said that, they seem to have done well to get Philip Rivers to be a better QB than Eli Manning.

J-Mike88
08-14-2010, 05:24 PM
This is why I hate Eli Manning, and Archie.
Eli has always been my least favorite player since this incident, which ironically happened at the same time as Pat Tillman was doing his work in Afghanistan, getting shot by our own people and dying.

Eli and Archie cried that San Diego wasn't a good enough organization for their services.

Eli vs Tillman?

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-14-2010, 05:43 PM
It was smart of Eli not to go to San Diego they've yet to win a SB.

Saints-Tigers
08-14-2010, 05:48 PM
Eli and Archie think they can do whatever they want because Peyton is really good.

Giantsfan1080
08-14-2010, 05:54 PM
I think Archie felt that the turmoil in the Chargers organization at the time was to much of a negative. They were poorly run at that point with the head coach and GM fighting all the time. Archie went through that in N.O. and he didn't want Eli's career to end up the same way. SD definitely knew the Giants were interested in Eli because Ernie Accorsi had a huge hard on for him and he let everyone know that. In the end Chargers fans are happy with Rivers and Giants fans are happy with Eli so everything worked out fine.

Ness
08-14-2010, 05:55 PM
It was smart of Eli not to go to San Diego they've yet to win a SB.

Drew Brees should have never went to New Orleans by that logic.

phlysac
08-14-2010, 06:12 PM
And to think that Marty wanted Phillip Rivers anyways. Worked out for them.

Hurricanes25
08-14-2010, 06:55 PM
It was smart of Eli not to go to San Diego they've yet to win a SB.

That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Splat
08-14-2010, 06:58 PM
He thought he was bigger then the league.

Giantsfan1080
08-14-2010, 07:19 PM
The thing is if you've read anything about Eli the last 5 years that's really not true. Archie had more to do with the whole situation.

nepg
08-14-2010, 07:31 PM
A big reason they didn't want to go to SD was because they knew Brees was who he is. I think it was pretty obvious that Brees was turning a huge corner. Eli and his camp didn't want to be stuck in a QB controversy. They preferred to go to a place where he would definitely be the man and everyone in the organization would be working with that undoubted knowledge. I don't think it was as much the SD organization as it was the situation with Drew Brees.

San Francisco demonstrated that they learned from SD's predicament by sticking with Alex Smith. Now they'll be rewarded as SD would have been had SD stuck with Drew. How much better would SD be had they drafted Larry Fitzgerald with #1? ****'s sake, that team would have been insane!

bantx
08-14-2010, 07:39 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l764d5jzaM1qak459.gif

Halsey
08-14-2010, 08:00 PM
Wow, people are still not over this. It was obviously a good decision for Eli. He's won a Super Bowl and received a big contract extension in New York. Poor San Diego used the package of picks they got in return to acquire Philip Rivers, Shawn Merriman, Nick Hardwick and another player or two. It was a good trade for both teams. The only problem I see people having is they just don't like the Manning family. Why? Because they work hard, succeed, help market the league and avoid negative press? Damn those Mannings!

Halsey
08-14-2010, 08:04 PM
A big reason they didn't want to go to SD was because they knew Brees was who he is. I think it was pretty obvious that Brees was turning a huge corner. Eli and his camp didn't want to be stuck in a QB controversy.

So Eli wanted to avoid QB controversy by going to a team with Kurt Warner? If it was so obvious that Brees was turning a corner, why did the Chargers Draft Rivers? You're using revisionist history.

Giantsfan1080
08-14-2010, 08:06 PM
We didn't have Warner at the time we drafted Eli. We had Kerry Collins who then demanded to be released because he saw the writing on the wall.

nepg
08-14-2010, 08:08 PM
So Eli wanted to avoid QB controversy by going to a team with Kurt Warner? If it was so obvious that Brees was turning a corner, why did the Chargers Draft Rivers? You're using revisionist history.

I'm not a revisionist. I thought it was stupid for them to draft a QB with Brees there, and still do. A lot of people who saw how Brees was progressing did.

Big difference between a young up-and-coming QB like Brees and an old guy on his last leg like Kurt Warner. Warner was at a very low point when Eli got to NY. Warner was essentially done, and just trying to pick up a paycheck at that point. Kurt Warner wasn't right again until he got to Arizona after sitting for awhile. His thumb finally healed, and he was able to do some of the things that made him so good with the Rams again.

Halsey
08-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Brees looked so up and coming in 2003 that he was benched at one point for Doug Flutie, threw more ints than TDs, and San Diego was the worst team in the NFL. Brees didn't start to really shine until the 2004 season, the season after Rivers was drafted.

TimD
08-14-2010, 08:15 PM
No, it isn't. The fans almost had a blackout because it was going to drizzle.

It was Round 1 Titans @ Chargers, in 2007.

There are more soft NFL Chargers "fans" than there are Jets fans total.

Having said that, they seem to have done well to get Philip Rivers to be a better QB than Eli Manning.

Im confused. The jets have a pretty large fanbase

Hurricanes25
08-14-2010, 08:17 PM
Im confused. The jets have a pretty large fanbase

Ignore him. He takes some sort of cheap shot anytime he can agaisnt the Jets.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-14-2010, 08:18 PM
San Diego was pretty crappy when that decision was made. Leaf was pretty present on a lot of people's minds and Brees looked like a bust as well. The organization had attendance issues, consistency issues, QB development issues, and was perpetually at the bottom of the AFC West (hadn't been over .500 since 1995).

New York, on the other hand, had recently been in the Superbowl and had found themselves in the top 10 as a result of a uncharacteristic down year (the lowest win total for a Giants team since 1983). They had more talent, were undoubtedly a better market, and simply looked like a much better team at the time. It was also fairly clear that if San Diego didn't take Manning, the Giants were the team that was going to get him.

The Manning family played a hand because they had the ability to be non-compliant. They got Eli where they wanted him and I think both teams involved are really happy with the trade. We should just all drop it.

Xenos
08-14-2010, 10:54 PM
No, it isn't. The fans almost had a blackout because it was going to drizzle.

It was Round 1 Titans @ Chargers, in 2007.

There are more soft NFL Chargers "fans" than there are Jets fans total.

Having said that, they seem to have done well to get Philip Rivers to be a better QB than Eli Manning.
It's not the drizzle. It's the same problem that they have had every home game since 2004 (the last time a game was blacked out), which is the stadium and the fact that it's always the same seats that no one wants to buy. I really hope a new stadium gets built so this problem goes away.

BigDawg819
08-14-2010, 11:22 PM
It wasn't so much Eli as was it Archie, as stated before, but frankly without his last name Eli's not the first pick. San Diego knew he wasn't going to play for them but they could flip him to NY for a killer deal. Frankly it worked out great for both franchises, and for Eli. It got him heat which made NY fiend for him and rally behind him. NY wants to be the envy of everyone and loves having the "bad guy" on their team.

BigDawg819
08-14-2010, 11:23 PM
It's not the drizzle. It's the same problem that they have had every home game since 2004 (the last time a game was blacked out), which is the stadium and the fact that it's always the same seats that no one wants to buy. I really hope a new stadium gets built so this problem goes away.

You better push for finance reform in the state because if not the Chargers are gone.

Marino13
08-15-2010, 12:00 AM
I also remember hearing that when Eli and Archie went to meet with the Chargers, Marty said that if it were up to him, they would draft Rivers cause he liked him better, but the organization wanted Eli. Archie then decided that if the HC didn't want Eli, he didn't want Eli in the organization.

Atleast, I vaguely remember that sotry coming out.

Halsey
08-15-2010, 12:11 AM
Eli is the most underrated player in the NFL. He gives the Giants a quality starting QB who never misses games, never gets into trouble, works hard, and has shown he can play at a very high level at times. People think he's overrated because his last name is Manning. Wrong. People underrate him because they think he's just Archie's spoiled youngest son and compare him to Peyton.

Ness
08-15-2010, 12:44 AM
San Diego was pretty crappy when that decision was made. Leaf was pretty present on a lot of people's minds and Brees looked like a bust as well. The organization had attendance issues, consistency issues, QB development issues, and was perpetually at the bottom of the AFC West (hadn't been over .500 since 1995).

New York, on the other hand, had recently been in the Superbowl and had found themselves in the top 10 as a result of a uncharacteristic down year (the lowest win total for a Giants team since 1983). They had more talent, were undoubtedly a better market, and simply looked like a much better team at the time. It was also fairly clear that if San Diego didn't take Manning, the Giants were the team that was going to get him.

The Manning family played a hand because they had the ability to be non-compliant. They got Eli where they wanted him and I think both teams involved are really happy with the trade. We should just all drop it.

I know what's done is done, but the real reason is still a little bit of a mystery as no one has officially come out and said "this is why it happened". All in all I don't think the Manning family should have done it. You get drafted where you get drafted. The end.

Wow, people are still not over this. It was obviously a good decision for Eli. He's won a Super Bowl and received a big contract extension in New York. Poor San Diego used the package of picks they got in return to acquire Philip Rivers, Shawn Merriman, Nick Hardwick and another player or two. It was a good trade for both teams. The only problem I see people having is they just don't like the Manning family. Why? Because they work hard, succeed, help market the league and avoid negative press? Damn those Mannings!

Well it's kind of an insult to the draft and a lot of the players and people that work hard to get into the position. The NFL draft isn't a free agency bonanza. You're lucky to be drafted at all. Some guy that has never played a down in the NFL is going to tell what teams he wants to play for and which teams he doesn't? Could you imagine if Sam Bradford did that this past draft? People would be all over his butt. Or if Eli was a total bust? Eli is lucky for the family he has to shield him.

It's funny, because I really like Eli Manning as a player and he seems to be a good guy. But this is one decision that I just don't condone no matter who it is. I'm guessing it was really something that happened behind closed doors that ticked off the Manning family.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-15-2010, 12:47 AM
I know what's done is done, but the real reason is still a little bit of a mystery as no one has officially come out and said "this is why it happened". All in all I don't think the Manning family should have done it. You get drafted where you get drafted. The end.

I think it was a pretty classless move, but like I said in my post, I think the reason it was done was pretty obvious. The difference in the two teams was explicitly clear and while Archie's decision wasn't exactly the most logical, it wasn't hard to see why someone would prefer for their kid to not play for the Chargers at that moment.

But, honestly, who cares? The Chargers wound up with the better quarterback anyway.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-15-2010, 09:51 AM
I read a good thing when this all first came out. I will try to find it and post it. I am surprised this is still not water under the bridge so to speak. It is kind of comical that this is being brought up.

This is not like Eli was the first to do this. Perhaps he is a Manning so it stills lingers? I am not sure. But Jim Kelly's decision was worse. He bypassed the NFL all together so that he didn't have to play for the Bills, who had bad attendence and cold weather. He went to the Houston Gamblers! lol. I don't see articles about that in the media. It's not Eli went to the CFL instead.

Elway didn't feel like the Colts would allow him to be successful so he didn't want to play for them. He even threatened the Colts by saying if he wasn't traded he would play baseball!! I don't see people whining about that.

So these two HOFers set the precendent for this stuff. If you want to blame the source blame these two legends. Eli just followed suit. Plus based on the article the SD chargers stunk! He wanted to play on a historically accomplished team in a bigger market. Archie didn't want ELi to have the same career he had with the Saints who were terrible.

Rosebud
08-15-2010, 12:08 PM
It's funny how many people are still pissed at eli for trying to take advantage of the leverage he had due to how hyped a prospect he was. The Chargers at the time where one of the league's biggest jokes with no direction, a HC who wanted Rivers more than Eli and Archie saw his own failed career flashing before his eyes when he thought about his youngest son suiting up for the chargers.

Ultimately the Chargers got a lot of talent for Eli and I'm sure their fans are ecstatic with the way the team has stopped being pathetic and the giants are happy as Eli is one of the most under-rated players in the NFL and one of the very best late game QBs who's already won us one ring. Sure Eli's a dick for actually using his leverage against a team, but both parties involved couldn't be happier about how things worked out so I didn't see why people are still pissed. Then again I don't get why people get pissed about 90% of holdouts either.

Xenos
08-15-2010, 12:27 PM
You better push for finance reform in the state because if not the Chargers are gone.

It's more of city thing than anything to do with the state.

scpanther22
08-15-2010, 07:34 PM
Eli is the most underrated player in the NFL. He gives the Giants a quality starting QB who never misses games, never gets into trouble, works hard, and has shown he can play at a very high level at times. People think he's overrated because his last name is Manning. Wrong. People underrate him because they think he's just Archie's spoiled youngest son and compare him to Peyton.

IMO..a a seven-year, $106.9 million contract says your not so underrated

nrk
08-15-2010, 07:51 PM
The reason Giants fans don't see why other people may be upset is obviously because you're Giants fans. He's your quarterback so it's understandable. I think the guy is a giant douche like Elway and Kelly.

Saints-Tigers
08-15-2010, 09:42 PM
I actually don't think Eli is a douche, he just doesn't come off that way to me, but I think he was about to cry when SD drafted him because his people had already pumped into his head that SD didn't deserve him.

I think Elway is also an overrated douchebag, if that makes people feel better. Much like Archie.

Hurricanes25
08-15-2010, 10:56 PM
IMO..a a seven-year, $106.9 million contract says your not so underrated

To fans outside of New York/New Jersey, he is very underrated.

Rosebud
08-15-2010, 10:57 PM
The reason Giants fans don't see why other people may be upset is obviously because you're Giants fans. He's your quarterback so it's understandable. I think the guy is a giant douche like Elway and Kelly.

See, I just don't get what makes Elway or Kelly douches either. Utilizing their negotiating power? Well **** the owners must be the biggest douches of all time then.

LonghornsLegend
08-15-2010, 11:45 PM
It's anyone's guess, but my logic behind it all this time was pretty simple, Eli and Archie just didn't want him playing in the same conference as Peyton. They would have to face eachother en route to the SB nearly every season, and I think they would try to avoid that if they had an opportunity to do so which they did.

Ness
08-16-2010, 01:37 AM
I read a good thing when this all first came out. I will try to find it and post it. I am surprised this is still not water under the bridge so to speak. It is kind of comical that this is being brought up.

This is not like Eli was the first to do this. Perhaps he is a Manning so it stills lingers? I am not sure. But Jim Kelly's decision was worse. He bypassed the NFL all together so that he didn't have to play for the Bills, who had bad attendence and cold weather. He went to the Houston Gamblers! lol. I don't see articles about that in the media. It's not Eli went to the CFL instead.

Elway didn't feel like the Colts would allow him to be successful so he didn't want to play for them. He even threatened the Colts by saying if he wasn't traded he would play baseball!! I don't see people whining about that.

So these two HOFers set the precendent for this stuff. If you want to blame the source blame these two legends. Eli just followed suit. Plus based on the article the SD chargers stunk! He wanted to play on a historically accomplished team in a bigger market. Archie didn't want ELi to have the same career he had with the Saints who were terrible.

It wasn't brought up because the thread is about Eli Manning not John Elway or Jim Kelly.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-16-2010, 07:11 AM
The reason Giants fans don't see why other people may be upset is obviously because you're Giants fans. He's your quarterback so it's understandable. I think the guy is a giant douche like Elway and Kelly.

He didn't want to play for a team that's been pathetic historically. After that he pretty much has been all class. He says the right things, does the right things. He gives back to the community, runs camps for kids. I can't blame him for that. I guess Archie didn't want Eli's career to end up like his.

If you want the def. of a douche. See Big Ben, Cutler, and Rivers.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-16-2010, 07:15 AM
It wasn't brought up because the thread is about Eli Manning not John Elway or Jim Kelly.

You're right, but the two are related. It def. should be brought up, especially if the thread is based on refusing to play for a team. As soon as you bring that up, then you have to list people in the industry who did it before the person. That sets precedent. Elway and Kelly, both of hall of famers, were more extreme. One actually left the NFL, and the other threatened to play baseball. So, I agree, the thread is about Eli. But as soon as you bring a topic like this into play, then obviously people who did the same stuff should be listed. You know a thread like this will have people rip Eli for not wanting to play for SD. So from a practical standpoint, one should list prior players who did the same thing to show this isn't new. Players have done this in the past.

LonghornsLegend
08-16-2010, 08:16 AM
It doesn't make sense to threaten to not play for a team and use the reason "well I want to play for a great team, or organization, this team stinks". I mean, if your a top prospect and getting picked in the top 5, what makes you think your going to get the choice of being on a great team? Almost all top 5 teams will suck, and most have been bad for a long time.


That's why I never bought that as a reason, you can't get it both ways. You can't be a top pick, get a top signing bonus, then expect it to be on a contender or a smoothly run franchise. It's your job to turn that team around. If your talking about not being drafted by a team like Oakland where Al Davis can never get fired that's different, but look at where the Chargers are at now. They have been 1 of the most talented teams in the league for years now.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-16-2010, 08:51 AM
It doesn't make sense to threaten to not play for a team and use the reason "well I want to play for a great team, or organization, this team stinks". I mean, if your a top prospect and getting picked in the top 5, what makes you think your going to get the choice of being on a great team? Almost all top 5 teams will suck, and most have been bad for a long time.


That's why I never bought that as a reason, you can't get it both ways. You can't be a top pick, get a top signing bonus, then expect it to be on a contender or a smoothly run franchise. It's your job to turn that team around. If your talking about not being drafted by a team like Oakland where Al Davis can never get fired that's different, but look at where the Chargers are at now. They have been 1 of the most talented teams in the league for years now.



It does for some players who think they have leverage. And just look at Kelly and Elway. It worked for them. They set conditions and managed to turn out ok. So if players want to go that route it proves it works. Teams aren't going to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. I think any player that gets picked top 1or 2 could do that.

Chargers are good now but prior to that they been pretty pitiful.


1998: 5-11
1999: 8-8
2000: 1-15
2001: 5-11
2002: 8-8
2003: 4-12

True in theory you are one of many pieces that should turn the team around. But to understand why The Mannings wanted that all you have to do is look at Archie Manning's career for reference. He was a good player who a horrible team that didn't want his son to be forced to the same fate. Just a father looking out for his kid.

I think someone interviewed Bart Starr or Roger S. and asked about Archie Manning, and they said something like the only difference between he and us is that he is on the Saints. Basically saying he is just as talented as a QB, but bad luck for stuck on a horrible team. So I can certainly understand why a father wouldn't want his son to get the same fate he did. Hey, after all he was right. Both sons are successful now.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-16-2010, 09:05 AM
isn't the corollary to 'shut up and play for who drafts you,' 'shut up and sign for what they want to pay you'? someone let me know when half of football fandom holds a decade long grudge about any rookie contract holdout.

regardless, as i remember it, PMD was right on. san diego was looking like a garbage franchise with utterly no front office leadership. somewhat like going to detroit with millen there.

Manning to Bolts: Don't draft me
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20040422-9999-1s22chargers.html

The Chargers have had only four winning seasons in the last 20 years, including none since 1995, and the perception is that members of the front office and coaching staff could be lame ducks if the team doesn't show significant improvement after finishing 4-12 last season.

wordofi
08-16-2010, 11:14 AM
That's a pretty terrible gamble to take. They didn't know New York was going to be the team to trade up. I highly doubt they would have planned that out. And San Diego is a good market for football in it's own right. Besides if that truly was the case somehow/someway, then why did Archie let Peyton go to Indianapolis of all places?

San Diego's geographic location makes it a bad market. To the south is Tijuana, which doesn't count towards San Diego's DMA. To the west is the Pacific Ocean.

yourfavestoner
08-16-2010, 11:19 AM
San Diego's geographic location makes it a bad market. To the south is Tijuana, which doesn't count towards San Diego's DMA. To the west is the Pacific Ocean.

It's still a very large market, especially when you factor in North SD County (Escondido, Del Mar, Encinitas, Oceanside). They've actually got a pretty heavy dose of people coming to the games from Riverside, Orange, and San Bernardino counties.

The problem in SD is the same problem as Los Angeles. There's too many other things to do, and they have a crippled economy that is hemorraging money to support a substantial illegal alien population.

CC.SD
08-16-2010, 11:41 AM
A big reason they didn't want to go to SD was because they knew Brees was who he is. I think it was pretty obvious that Brees was turning a huge corner. Eli and his camp didn't want to be stuck in a QB controversy. They preferred to go to a place where he would definitely be the man and everyone in the organization would be working with that undoubted knowledge. I don't think it was as much the SD organization as it was the situation with Drew Brees.



I was gonna stay out of this for the most part but this is basically just a total lie. For the life of me I cannot figure out why someone would try and pretend they had foresight about this situation on a message board...

Drew was so abysmal in 2003 that he won comeback player of the year award for turning in a great 2004.

Saints-Tigers
08-16-2010, 12:51 PM
I was a big fan of Drew Brees in college, and when he was sucking it up in SD, he was so bad that I started to question my ability to evaluate players.

Ness
08-16-2010, 01:42 PM
You're right, but the two are related. It def. should be brought up, especially if the thread is based on refusing to play for a team. As soon as you bring that up, then you have to list people in the industry who did it before the person. That sets precedent. Elway and Kelly, both of hall of famers, were more extreme. One actually left the NFL, and the other threatened to play baseball. So, I agree, the thread is about Eli. But as soon as you bring a topic like this into play, then obviously people who did the same stuff should be listed. You know a thread like this will have people rip Eli for not wanting to play for SD. So from a practical standpoint, one should list prior players who did the same thing to show this isn't new. Players have done this in the past.

Why? Why does it have to be shown that this isn't new? Even if it's brought up, so what? What does that have to do with Eli's situation? Nothing. No one is saying players haven't done this in the past, which is why I never brought it up in the first place. That isn't what this thread is about.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-16-2010, 01:53 PM
Why? Why does it have to be shown that this isn't new? Even if it's brought up, so what? What does that have to do with Eli's situation? Nothing. No one is saying players haven't done this in the past, which is why I never brought it up in the first place. That isn't what this thread is about.

It's been 6 years? This has been brought up and beaten to death. I have no clue what is the motivation in bringing this up. The thread questions why Eli refused to play with the Chargers.

From what I read 6 years ago it was basically the stuff I stated. He and his family didn't want to end up at a franchise who had no history of winning. Basically Archie Manning didn't want his son to be in the same situation he was.

Some one should have mentioned that it was done in the past, especially younger people registered to the site. Some people may not know that this was all ready done before, and thus make hate Eli, considering his action as a first. I simply provided evidence that this was done before.

Trust me, as a mod of two giant mbs, I seen how threads like this turn out. So from my experience I just posted stuff citing past precendents in hopes of educating the younger fans that this was done by hall of fame players.

Ness
08-16-2010, 01:59 PM
It's been 6 years? This has been brought up and beaten to death. I have no clue what is the motivation in bringing this up. The thread questions why Eli refused to play with the Chargers.

From what I read 6 years ago it was basically the stuff I stated. He and his family didn't want to end up at a franchise who had no history of winning. Basically Archie Manning didn't want his son to be in the same situation he was.

Some one should have mentioned that it was done in the past, especially younger people registered to the site. Some people may not know that this was all ready done before, and thus make hate Eli, considering his action as a first. I simply provided evidence that this was done before.

Trust me, as a mod of two giant mbs, I seen how threads like this turn out. So from my experience I just posted stuff citing past precendents in hopes of educating the younger fans that this was done by hall of fame players.

I don't see why that would be your responsibility, but if you feel the need to teach, than so be it. You don't need to "shield" Eli from ignorance.

LetsGoGiants!
08-16-2010, 01:59 PM
He did this mainly because the influence of Archie. Archie had never won a SB with the Saints or did that good. So he didn't want Eli to have that same career, as the Chargers were bad for many seasons before the draft. So they said he didn't want to play for them and asked for a trade.

Ness
08-16-2010, 02:02 PM
He did this mainly because the influence of Archie. Archie had never won a SB with the Saints or did that good. So he didn't want Eli to have that same career, as the Chargers were bad for many seasons before the draft. So they said he didn't want to play for them and asked for a trade.

This is the reason I'm hearing most it seems. I guess I can't fault Archie for wanting to protect his son. I'd probably do the same thing if I was in his place. I'm also assuming that the Manning family heard some bad things about the Chargers organization at the time. I suppose those two reasons are the closest we'll get.

jackalope
08-16-2010, 02:47 PM
In the book "The GM", there's a quote from Eli talking about how not going to San Diego was entirely his decision. Eli says that he asked his dad to get involved only to take the pressure off of him and he told Archie exactly what to say.

Not entirely on subject, but the book also has an interesting chapter on Elway refusing to play for the Baltimore Colts. At one point after being drafted he told Accorsi he'd play there (the baseball threat was always an empty one), but Elway was then traded by the team owner without Accorsi knowing it. Had Elway not been traded, the move from Baltimore probably wouldn't have happened.

CC.SD
08-16-2010, 03:29 PM
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb259/tigers_jaclan/gif-6.gif

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 03:36 PM
It's still a very large market, especially when you factor in North SD County (Escondido, Del Mar, Encinitas, Oceanside). They've actually got a pretty heavy dose of people coming to the games from Riverside, Orange, and San Bernardino counties.

The problem in SD is the same problem as Los Angeles. There's too many other things to do, and they have a crippled economy that is hemorraging money to support a substantial illegal alien population.

See, I don't really buy that argument though. Im from North Jersey, and in the tri-state area, there are tons of things to do as well. Yet we still show up to the games. Hell, NYC alone has enough things to do that you can spend every weekend for an entire year there and do something different every weekend.

Then you got the shore, Atlantic City, and so on and so on.

I just think the people out there for the most part are bandwagon fans.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 03:42 PM
I honestly think it was Archie's doing. Easy E went with it bc that's how he is. But basically, Archie:

1. Didn't want Eli and Peyton in the same conference
2. Didn't want Eli to play in SD bc he felt it was a poorly run organization


That's pretty much it. Eli gets a lot of heat for what he did, and I'm not gonna knock anyone for that, but at the same time, I think a lot of people on here don't realize how many qbs have done the same.

It wasn't just Elway. Jim Kelly, Joe Theisman are some I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not saying what he did was right, I'm just saying, he wasn't the first, and won't be the last to do something like that.

I understand why he gets heat for it though.

BigDawg819
08-16-2010, 03:53 PM
In the book "The GM", there's a quote from Eli talking about how not going to San Diego was entirely his decision. Eli says that he asked his dad to get involved only to take the pressure off of him and he told Archie exactly what to say.

Not entirely on subject, but the book also has an interesting chapter on Elway refusing to play for the Baltimore Colts. At one point after being drafted he told Accorsi he'd play there (the baseball threat was always an empty one), but Elway was then traded by the team owner without Accorsi knowing it. Had Elway not been traded, the move from Baltimore probably wouldn't have happened.

That's easy to type, but in reality it doesn't hold weight. The personal war between Irsay and Schaffer had spiraled out of control, the dwindling attendance was a huge factor over the years, not to mention there was no new stadium coming for the Colts in Baltimore.

BigDawg819
08-16-2010, 03:56 PM
I honestly think it was Archie's doing. Easy E went with it bc that's how he is. But basically, Archie:

1. Didn't want Eli and Peyton in the same conference
2. Didn't want Eli to play in SD bc he felt it was a poorly run organization


That's pretty much it. Eli gets a lot of heat for what he did, and I'm not gonna knock anyone for that, but at the same time, I think a lot of people on here don't realize how many qbs have done the same.

It wasn't just Elway. Jim Kelly, Joe Theisman are some I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not saying what he did was right, I'm just saying, he wasn't the first, and won't be the last to do something like that.

I understand why he gets heat for it though.

But unlike the rest, Elway and Eli were #1 picks so they will always get crushed for it. I don't really "blame" Eli for it, yet I will always hate Elway for not wanting to play in Baltimore being that I was born and raised there. That being said, at the time of the situation I really can't blame his stance because it wasn't a knock on the city more as it was indictment of Irsay and the great franchise he destroyed.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:02 PM
But unlike the rest, Elway and Eli were #1 picks so they will always get crushed for it. I don't really "blame" Eli for it, yet I will always hate Elway for not wanting to play in Baltimore being that I was born and raised there. That being said, at the time of the situation I really can't blame his stance because it wasn't a knock on the city more as it was indictment of Irsay and the great franchise he destroyed.

I don't really knock qbs for doing it. I think that some qbs are put in situations as rookies where they never were given a chance to succeed. And I feel they have a right to say no to a certain organization if they don't want to play for them.

Would any of us kill a qb for saying no to the Raiders (prior to this year)? I know I wouldn't.

But at the same time, I understand why people feel the opposite. It is a ballsy thing to do, and you will rub people the wrong way for doing it.

yo123
08-16-2010, 04:03 PM
I honestly think it was Archie's doing. Easy E went with it bc that's how he is. But basically, Archie:

1. Didn't want Eli and Peyton in the same conference
2. Didn't want Eli to play in SD bc he felt it was a poorly run organization


That's pretty much it. Eli gets a lot of heat for what he did, and I'm not gonna knock anyone for that, but at the same time, I think a lot of people on here don't realize how many qbs have done the same.

It wasn't just Elway. Jim Kelly, Joe Theisman are some I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not saying what he did was right, I'm just saying, he wasn't the first, and won't be the last to do something like that.

I understand why he gets heat for it though.

I don't really care who's done it before, it's a ***** move. You're getting paid more than established QB's right out of the gate and you have the audacity to try and pick and choose what team you want to go to? ********. Whether or not Archie pushed him one way or another it was his choice and he picked the one that made him look like a whiney douche.

edit- I know you said you didn't necessarily agree with it I just wanted to vent.

BigDawg819
08-16-2010, 04:07 PM
I don't really knock qbs for doing it. I think that some qbs are put in situations as rookies where they never were given a chance to succeed. And I feel they have a right to say no to a certain organization if they don't want to play for them.

Would any of us kill a qb for saying no to the Raiders (prior to this year)? I know I wouldn't.

But at the same time, I understand why people feel the opposite. It is a ballsy thing to do, and you will rub people the wrong way for doing it.

I think the reason why there is so much animosity thrown at them is because it comes off as nothing more then arrogance. These young men are fresh out of college, no matter how you slice it, and the only thing they have as comparison to the draft would be their experience in being recruited to college. The difference is that they had the ultimate decision in where to go to said college, whereas the draft is for lack of a better term a "lottery". Regardless they are getting to play a game as their job and frankly that rubs people the wrong way, and that was before the economy collapsed.

They're not free agents unless they don't get drafted and well they would rather be drafted then not so its truly a "Catch 22" situation.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:10 PM
I think the reason why there is so much animosity thrown at them is because it comes off as nothing more then arrogance. These young men are fresh out of college, no matter how you slice it, and the only thing they have as comparison to the draft would be their experience in being recruited to college. The difference is that they had the ultimate decision in where to go to said college, whereas the draft is for lack of a better term a "lottery". Regardless they are getting to play a game as their job and frankly that rubs people the wrong way, and that was before the economy collapsed.

They're not free agents unless they don't get drafted and well they would rather be drafted then not so its truly a "Catch 22" situation.

Yeah, I understand both sides of it. That's why I won't knock anyone for feeling the way they feel on it. I personally don't condone doing it.

yourfavestoner
08-16-2010, 04:11 PM
See, I don't really buy that argument though. Im from North Jersey, and in the tri-state area, there are tons of things to do as well. Yet we still show up to the games. Hell, NYC alone has enough things to do that you can spend every weekend for an entire year there and do something different every weekend.

Then you got the shore, Atlantic City, and so on and so on.

I just think the people out there for the most part are bandwagon fans.

I don't disagree, at all. Los Angeles is slightly different than San Diego because LA has such a high number of transplants whose loyalties lie with other teams already. But yes, Southern California is bandwagon central. If you're not "trendy," interesting, or winning, you are irrelevant. People just generally don't care out here.

Also, the more I think about it, the less convinced I am that LA will ever get another NFL team, at least any time soon. We're almost four years into this, I think, and we haven't even figured out where the ******* stadium is going.

Los Angeles is far more valuable to the league as blackmail. We are a "leverage" city, so to speak. The Raiders, Chargers, Vikings, and Rams will all use us to scare the people of their cities into footing the bill for new stadiums. Put a team a team in LA, and all of that leverage goes out the window.

Shiver
08-16-2010, 04:11 PM
Water under the bridge at this point. I think both the Chargers and Giants are happy with how things worked out in hindsight.

Ness
08-16-2010, 04:12 PM
I don't really care who's done it before, it's a ***** move. You're getting paid more than established QB's right out of the gate and you have the audacity to try and pick and chose what team you want to go to? ********. Whether or not Archie pushed him one way or another it was his choice and he picked the one that made him look like a whiney douche

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Water under the bridge at this point. I think both the Chargers and Giants are happy with how things worked out in hindsight.

I don't know why people keep saying that. Of course both teams are happy with the way things turned out. That was never up for debate. That doesn't mean we still aren't allowed to question the initial decision. It's the principle of the situation that's important. Or rather, why I made this thread, not the eventual ultimatum.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:14 PM
I don't disagree, at all. Los Angeles is slightly different than San Diego because LA has such a high number of transplants whose loyalties lie with other teams already. But yes, Southern California is bandwagon central. If you're not "trendy," interesting, or winning, you are irrelevant. People just generally don't care out here.

Also, the more I think about it, the less convinced I am that LA will ever get another NFL team, at least any time soon. We're almost four years into this, I think, and we haven't even figured out where the ******* stadium is going.

Los Angeles is far more valuable to the league as blackmail. We are a "leverage" city, so to speak. The Raiders, Chargers, Vikings, and Rams will all use us to scare the people of their cities into footing the bill for new stadiums. Put a team a team in LA, and all of that leverage goes out the window.

That's an excellent point that I never thought of before. Great point.

A stadium in LA would be tricky. I remember when the Jets wanted to put a stadium in the middle of Manhattan. I thought that wouldve been disastrous. Thank god that didn't happen. I like goin to the city on the weekends, 20 minutes and Im there. Going on a Sunday would be damn near impossible if they put a stadium in manhattan.

Hurricanes25
08-16-2010, 04:18 PM
That's an excellent point that I never thought of before. Great point.

A stadium in LA would be tricky. I remember when the Jets wanted to put a stadium in the middle of Manhattan. I thought that wouldve been disastrous. Thank god that didn't happen. I like goin to the city on the weekends, 20 minutes and Im there. Going on a Sunday would be damn near impossible if they put a stadium in manhattan.

It would have only been 8 weekends a year so I don't think it would have been too bad. The Meadowlands is a perfect spot anyways so it all worked out.

Shiver
08-16-2010, 04:20 PM
LA could work, provided two things:

1. They build a stadium that can compete financially. Those old LA teams had stadiums in bad parts of town, with a lack of luxury box revenue.

2. They need the team to be competitive and have at least one "star" to market.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:24 PM
LA could work, provided two things:

1. They build a stadium that can compete financially. Those old LA teams had stadiums in bad parts of town, with a lack of luxury box revenue.

2. They need the team to be competitive and have at least one "star" to market.

I don't buy the stadium argument either though. Stadiums get "old" quickly nowadays. Especially with the attention span of the ppl of LA, it will lose its novelty within 2 years.

Plus, thats the problem (or beauty) with the NFL, the parity of the sport won't allow for a team to consistently be dominant. Thats why a team won't work in LA.

Of course they will support them when they're good. But they will be bad also, and when they're bad, no one will watch them. They're too much of a bandwagon city for an NFL team to work out.

Hell, San Diego barely sold out their playoff game against the Jets. That's just ridiculous. And a lot of seats were occupied by Jet fans.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:27 PM
It would have only been 8 weekends a year so I don't think it would have been too bad. The Meadowlands is a perfect spot anyways so it all worked out.

Tailgating would suck if it were in Manhattan. I will admit though, how awesome would it be (as a whole) if they were able to pull it off?

And I think it would be more than 8 weeks. Think of all the concerts and events that would be hosted there.

I grew up like 10 minutes away from East Rutherford. I enjoy the stadium being there. And its close to the city too.

Shiver
08-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Bandwagon cities are going to be a reality, in all sports. They aren't going to move all the teams out of California and Florida.

Hurricanes25
08-16-2010, 04:33 PM
Tailgating would suck if it were in Manhattan. I will admit though, how awesome would it be (as a whole) if they were able to pull it off?

And I think it would be more than 8 weeks. Think of all the concerts and events that would be hosted there.

I grew up like 10 minutes away from East Rutherford. I enjoy the stadium being there. And its close to the city too.

Yeah, I didn't think about other events such as concerts and whatnot.

East Rutherford is the best spot for it. It's out of the way yet close, if you know what I'm saying.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:35 PM
Bandwagon cities are going to be a reality, in all sports. They aren't going to move all the teams out of California and Florida.

They could reduce em though. I think San Fran and Oakland should keep their teams.

San Diego doesn't necessarily have to stay there. They don't support their team.


Jacksonville needs to go. The NFL should look to expand into Canada. I think Buffalo moving to Toronto is a no brainer. I think Portland needs a team, so SD or Jacksonville can move there.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:36 PM
Yeah, I didn't think about other events such as concerts and whatnot.

East Rutherford is the best spot for it. It's out of the way yet close, if you know what I'm saying.

I'm still pissed about Xanadu though. Wtf was that crap? What an abomination.

Hurricanes25
08-16-2010, 04:38 PM
I'm still pissed about Xanadu though. Wtf was that crap? What an abomination.

I had such high hopes for the indoor ski resort or whatever it was. Is that project over or are they just delaying it?

bigbluedefense
08-16-2010, 04:41 PM
I had such high hopes for the indoor ski resort or whatever it was. Is that project over or are they just delaying it?

I have no idea what they're doing with it. The thing had so much potential, and they ruined it.

It's just a shame. Its gonna turn into the worlds largest paper weight.

jackalope
08-16-2010, 05:11 PM
That's easy to type, but in reality it doesn't hold weight. The personal war between Irsay and Schaffer had spiraled out of control, the dwindling attendance was a huge factor over the years, not to mention there was no new stadium coming for the Colts in Baltimore.

I should clarify that that was the book's/Accorsi's assertion, not mine.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-16-2010, 06:48 PM
In the vein of the NFL/LA discussion, I think the single biggest reason it would work there now where it didn't before has nothing to do with LA and everything to do with how NFL teams make their money these days. So much less of the income from a given season is based off having a fantastic attendance at each game and much more about television contracts that are decided before a single person buys a ticket.

I think one team in LA would work fine, even if you do count attendance. It's not like there's not football fans in LA, nor is it like LA is simply more shallow or anything like that. If you build a nice new stadium, it will become the hot sporting event of the area. Granted, if the team lays an egg, who knows how things fall, but I can't see anyone looking at the potential payoff and not deciding it's well worth the risk.

Shane P. Hallam
08-16-2010, 08:05 PM
"RT @Schottey: Eli Manning...not the best QB in the NFL, NFC, NFCE, his own family, or even his city."

Rosebud
08-16-2010, 08:45 PM
i don't know how to interpret twit, but whoever said that is a ******* moron.

I dunno, I think it takes skill to say something that's not only completely wrong, but also uses the most ******** phrasing this side of Cool Kids. Although that does bring up the question of Eli v Romo which is always really tough since Eli's a better QB in the clutch, as idiotic as that sentence is, and Romo the more prolific passer for the earlier parts of games. Both are greatt guys and team-mates and both have carried their respective teams.

Shane P. Hallam
08-16-2010, 09:31 PM
I disagree with Eli being worse than Sanchez of course, but I think an argument could be made for the rest.

scottyboy
08-16-2010, 09:43 PM
but you know what? who cares if he's not the best of them? he's obviously better than sanchez and at this point it's gotta be 1a and 1b with eli and romo for the NFCE, but Eli will take his ring, his contract and the support of Giants fans and laugh

Giantsfan1080
08-16-2010, 09:46 PM
but you know what? who cares if he's not the best of them? he's obviously better than sanchez and at this point it's gotta be 1a and 1b with eli and romo for the NFCE, but Eli will take his ring, his contract and the support of Giants fans and laugh

Perfectly said.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-16-2010, 10:21 PM
I don't see why that would be your responsibility, but if you feel the need to teach, than so be it. You don't need to "shield" Eli from ignorance.

Not just Eli. I back my team. However, if this happened recently, and Eli was the first to do it, then I can see the issue. But now, 6 years later, it's a non issue. Plus it would seem when it comes to Eli giants fans and non giants fans seem to spout ignorance.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-16-2010, 11:16 PM
"RT @Schottey: Eli Manning...not the best QB in the NFL, NFC, NFCE, his own family, or even his city."

Or even his team.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bp6FKsmMw9o/SVhfB75HVXI/AAAAAAAAATI/l-ILdIs7Oko/s320/sorgimaytag.jpg

Xenos
08-17-2010, 12:55 AM
He didn't want to play for a team that's been pathetic historically. After that he pretty much has been all class. He says the right things, does the right things. He gives back to the community, runs camps for kids. I can't blame him for that. I guess Archie didn't want Eli's career to end up like his.

If you want the def. of a douche. See Big Ben, Cutler, and Rivers.
Except Rivers isn't a douche. He stays out of trouble unlike Big Ben, and doesn't create unnecessary drama for his team like Cutler (not to mention he does not grab his crotch towards an opponent's sidelines when his team is down 23-3). I think the biggest issue is that people actually think he got into it with Cutler when he wasn't even talking to the guy but congratulating Shaun Phillips and Matt Wilhelm. He's a lot like Eli in his charity and how he completely disappears after a game is over.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-17-2010, 07:22 AM
Except Rivers isn't a douche. He stays out of trouble unlike Big Ben, and doesn't create unnecessary drama for his team like Cutler (not to mention he does not grab his crotch towards an opponent's sidelines when his team is down 23-3). I think the biggest issue is that people actually think he got into it with Cutler when he wasn't even talking to the guy but congratulating Shaun Phillips and Matt Wilhelm. He's a lot like Eli in his charity and how he completely disappears after a game is over.

Not now, prior he was. Talking smack to opposing QBs during the game, and trash talking to fans in Indy isn't exactly classy. KInd of a douche thing to do in my opinion. Then again, I am not a fan of trash talking. I always told my TE corps to shut their mouths and let their play do the talking.

bantx
08-17-2010, 12:59 PM
its been apart of the game since forever, I don't see how you can hate a guy for doing it. But hey everyone has to find a reason not to like someone.

Xenos
08-18-2010, 12:22 AM
Not now, prior he was. Talking smack to opposing QBs during the game, and trash talking to fans in Indy isn't exactly classy. KInd of a douche thing to do in my opinion. Then again, I am not a fan of trash talking. I always told my TE corps to shut their mouths and let their play do the talking.
He doesn't talk smack to opposing QBs though. The only thing you can make a case for is Cutler and it's more of he said and other guy said situation. We see footage of what looks like him saying something to Cutler, but there's nothing concrete to prove that he didn't just congratulate Shaun Phillips like both him and everyone else on the team have been saying. The biggest thing is that Cutler felt that he was wronged by Rivers, while Rivers felt that he wasn't even talking to him. But considering that Cutler seem to get easily upset over the littlest things, I'm going to think that the whole situation was overblown by him.

As to the trash talking to Indy, the only words we do hear is him saying that "I'll be back" when Indy fans were cheering that he was leaving the game with an injury. We don't hear or know what was said other than that.

I just think it's silly that people take offense to his trash talking when it's more good natured than anything else. Did you take offense when Matthew Stafford was trash talking to Shaun Rodgers last year or Brett Favre during his Green Bay days? Or heck even Tom Brady when he cussed out Anthony Smith? I just feel that you can't take anything Rivers say on the field seriously when even little girls don't.

You might say his biggest problem is that he treats the game too much like Favre in his enjoyment of it.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-18-2010, 07:37 AM
He doesn't talk smack to opposing QBs though. The only thing you can make a case for is Cutler and it's more of he said and other guy said situation. We see footage of what looks like him saying something to Cutler, but there's nothing concrete to prove that he didn't just congratulate Shaun Phillips like both him and everyone else on the team have been saying. The biggest thing is that Cutler felt that he was wronged by Rivers, while Rivers felt that he wasn't even talking to him. But considering that Cutler seem to get easily upset over the littlest things, I'm going to think that the whole situation was overblown by him.

As to the trash talking to Indy, the only words we do hear is him saying that "I'll be back" when Indy fans were cheering that he was leaving the game with an injury. We don't hear or know what was said other than that.

I just think it's silly that people take offense to his trash talking when it's more good natured than anything else. Did you take offense when Matthew Stafford was trash talking to Shaun Rodgers last year or Brett Favre during his Green Bay days? Or heck even Tom Brady when he cussed out Anthony Smith? I just feel that you can't take anything Rivers say on the field seriously when even little girls don't.

You might say his biggest problem is that he treats the game too much like Favre in his enjoyment of it.



Rivers was talking to trash to Cutler, remember? Those two were jawing at each other. That's the whole thing with Rivers. The guy has gotten better, recently, but before he was a punk. Do that in NY with the media, and now you create drama.

Cutler, on the other hand, is no different. The guy is probably even more of a whiny B.. that most QBs. It's no surprise that he and Cutler were talking smack to each other.

Broncos' Bailey not a fan of Rivers after talk during game
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3169303

Big mouth has become Rivers' trademark
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface061308


No, you and I don't know what he said. Very true, however just listen to some of the quote from other players. It's not hard to gather that Rivers just runs his mouth. If your on Rex Ryan's team, I am sure those are qualities that are accepted. But most people don't like players who run their mouth, especially QBs.

Farve I never liked so that's different. However, guys like Brett and Brady have 2 huge things going for them. 1. They have superbowl rings, and 2. They are HOFers. Rivers is not. Can he be someday? Sure, but right now, be classy and play the game. No need to act like a punk in the process. But like I said before, it seems like he has gotten more mature. I haven't seen head lines where his mouth is running.


But my overall point is, since this is about Eli, is that he did that one draft day thing, which has been done before, and has been nearly perfect in terms of attitude since. I wouldn't have it any other way. Here in NY you rock the boat or do or say something stupid it gets printed and turns into drama. Just look at Shockey & Tiki for examples.

Gay Ork Wang
08-18-2010, 09:07 AM
im not quite sure where people get the impression that Cutler is whining and bitching. he has done nothing of that in chicago

NY+Giants=NYG
08-18-2010, 09:16 AM
im not quite sure where people get the impression that Cutler is whining and bitching. he has done nothing of that in chicago

Well one would guess he would not. I mean can you imagine the PR nightmare if he started whining again. I don't think anyone would expect that again. But then again, you never know.

Gay Ork Wang
08-18-2010, 09:32 AM
when did he really ever whine? I mean the fiasco with Josh McDaniels was pretty understandable. he maybe overreacted but its just not a great spot to be in if ur new HC doesnt talk to u and then tries to replace u with Matt cassel and even wants to trade u.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-18-2010, 09:49 AM
when did he really ever whine? I mean the fiasco with Josh McDaniels was pretty understandable. he maybe overreacted but its just not a great spot to be in if ur new HC doesnt talk to u and then tries to replace u with Matt cassel and even wants to trade u.

The whole Denver situation. The guy threw a fit like a 5 year old. He took it personally that they were checking all their options like a front office should. He blew that situation up more than it should be. Josh M. was trying to explore all options and wanted to bring his QB he worked with before. It didn't work out, and like some business moves don't, but Cutler took it to a whole different level.

Jay who do you feel about Josh M. trying to get Cassel?

I can understand that coach has interest in a QB he worked with and had a great success with. I am looking forward to working hard with Coach and showing him that I can be an asset to the Broncos.

Are you mad that the Broncos looked for other options?

NO, the nfl is a business first and foremost. And the Broncos were just exploring all avenues. Again, I am going to go out there and work my tail off and leave the business end of the game to the front office. I look forward to meeting coach, and working to get this offense to one of the more explosive offenses in the NFL.


Something like that and your done. People look at you as classy when you talk about working hard, and approaching it in a practical mature manner. Throwing a fit like a 5 year old, and then not calling anyone back, including your teammates, and owner, is bush league.

Gay Ork Wang
08-18-2010, 09:54 AM
For him it was a betrayal in trust. and it was. The broncos didnt have a whole at QB. they didnt tell him. If I was, in any company, a great worker, and i get wind of my boss trying to replace me with a person i feel like is worse than me, id try to get a new job asap where i can be sure to have a job.

The Cassel trade didnt work out, yes. but there is no job security for him. it basically tells him, they really dont feel comfortable with you there, we would much rather have someone else here.

I dont see how it was being whiny. he was trying to get himself job security

NY+Giants=NYG
08-18-2010, 10:06 AM
For him it was a betrayal in trust. and it was. The broncos didnt have a whole at QB. they didnt tell him. If I was, in any company, a great worker, and i get wind of my boss trying to replace me with a person i feel like is worse than me, id try to get a new job asap where i can be sure to have a job.

The Cassel trade didnt work out, yes. but there is no job security for him. it basically tells him, they really dont feel comfortable with you there, we would much rather have someone else here.

I dont see how it was being whiny. he was trying to get himself job security

Why tell him? Who is he, that front office should run things by? "Hey Mr. Cutler, would you mind if we explore other options at your position?" Did you expect the owner, coach, and GM to ask a young QB for his permission.

I wouldn't care. That's management exploring all options. As a business student, or former business student I understand the dynamics of the business world. Also, coaching in this industry helps too. So perhaps I wouldn't care about it because I know that they are just doing their jobs. However, once I did find out, I would open up a dialogue to confirm. And if Cassell wasn't coming, then you move on and work hard. If anything you prove to your new coach that you are the man. Not cry a river and then act like a fool and not return phone calls.

Again you act professional and classy at all times. There is no need to do what he did. Yeah they tried to get a QB they worked with before. It didn't work, so use that as fuel to prove to your coach your the guy. He did the opposite and flipped out.

Xenos
08-19-2010, 01:34 AM
Rivers was talking to trash to Cutler, remember? Those two were jawing at each other. That's the whole thing with Rivers. The guy has gotten better, recently, but before he was a punk. Do that in NY with the media, and now you create drama.

Cutler, on the other hand, is no different. The guy is probably even more of a whiny B.. that most QBs. It's no surprise that he and Cutler were talking smack to each other.

Broncos' Bailey not a fan of Rivers after talk during game
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3169303

Big mouth has become Rivers' trademark
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface061308


No, you and I don't know what he said. Very true, however just listen to some of the quote from other players. It's not hard to gather that Rivers just runs his mouth. If your on Rex Ryan's team, I am sure those are qualities that are accepted. But most people don't like players who run their mouth, especially QBs.

Farve I never liked so that's different. However, guys like Brett and Brady have 2 huge things going for them. 1. They have superbowl rings, and 2. They are HOFers. Rivers is not. Can he be someday? Sure, but right now, be classy and play the game. No need to act like a punk in the process. But like I said before, it seems like he has gotten more mature. I haven't seen head lines where his mouth is running.


But my overall point is, since this is about Eli, is that he did that one draft day thing, which has been done before, and has been nearly perfect in terms of attitude since. I wouldn't have it any other way. Here in NY you rock the boat or do or say something stupid it gets printed and turns into drama. Just look at Shockey & Tiki for examples.
I would like to address the two bolded points. The first is something I already mentioned. Cutler was the one who felt that Rivers was jawing with him. Rivers, on the other hand, felt that he wasn't even talking to him during that incident. And like I mentioned, his other teammates backed him up on what happened. Now whether they're lying or not is something else entirely. Personally, I feel that it's the latter from what I've seen and heard. Cutler just took it the wrong way and thought Rivers was jawing with him. I just think it's telling that during the rematch in 2008 (both games) that Cutler is the one who keeps bringing up that incident, while Rivers is the one who just ignores it. It's just like he took the McDaniels situation so seriously and blew it out of proportion.

The Champ article is interesting because it reuses some of his comments before the game, where he was the one who did the trash talking. Not to mention that since that article, he has begrudgingly admitted that maybe Rivers is a great player as well, which I find hilarious coming from someone who could never get the best of Rivers.

As for the second bolded part, I'm sorry but I disagree and think that it's hypocritical if something like that is true. It's the same argument that Dan Patrick brought up. I don't believe that Brett and Brady suddenly turned into who they are now (trash talker and all) after they got the rings and the career stats and the HOF status. They stayed true to who they are since the beginning. The same is true for Rivers. He's not going to change his personality just because people have this weird perception of him.

One of the other great things I admire about him is that despite what people may believe, such as yourself, I think he would do fine when dealing with the NY media. His demeanor off the field is drastically different from his demeanor on the field. He has the perfect coach personality and coach speech when it comes to dealing with the media. Something that can't be said for Cutler.

Rivers is actually eerily like Eli in that regards. I remember callers being upset in 2007 when the team started 1-3, and Rivers seemed to not be too upset or worried like they thought he should be.

San Diego Chicken
08-19-2010, 04:35 AM
The whole Rivers/Cutler beef is 3 years old now, can we just let it go? Yeah, Rivers gets a bad rep but what are you going to do about it. I kinda like the bad rep he has, but you gotta love the irony that someone who's the ultimate aw-shucks gosh golly family guy is one of the top villains in the NFL.

As for the question at hand it was a number of things, them not being huge fans of Marty, sign-ability, the fact that the Chargers looked like a mess at the time... just to add to what's been said already.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-19-2010, 08:56 AM
The whole Denver situation. The guy threw a fit like a 5 year old. He took it personally that they were checking all their options like a front office should. He blew that situation up more than it should be. Josh M. was trying to explore all options and wanted to bring his QB he worked with before. It didn't work out, and like some business moves don't, but Cutler took it to a whole different level.



When the "options" you're exploring involve replacing a 25 year old PBer, you hang up unless Mr. Polian is calling offering Peyton Manning. Also, you actually expect players to answer like that? Most people in the NFL have personalities. Also, most people in general wouldn't answer like that if someone was looking for someone else to take their jobs. I wouldn't.

Chris, how do you feel about the grocery store you work part-time at trying to find a replacement for you?

It ****** sucks.

Are you mad that they're looking at other options to get rid of you?

Yes.

San Diego Chicken
08-19-2010, 07:51 PM
When the "options" you're exploring involve replacing a 25 year old PBer, you hang up unless Mr. Polian is calling offering Peyton Manning. Also, you actually expect players to answer like that? Most people in the NFL have personalities. Also, most people in general wouldn't answer like that if someone was looking for someone else to take their jobs. I wouldn't.

Chris, how do you feel about the grocery store you work part-time at trying to find a replacement for you?

It ****** sucks.

Are you mad that they're looking at other options to get rid of you?

Yes.

NFL football isn't like the grocery store; there are millions of dollars at stake. Players alot more accomplished than Jay Cutler have been replaced and/or the subject of trade talks.

Bengalsrocket
08-19-2010, 08:00 PM
When the "options" you're exploring involve replacing a 25 year old PBer, you hang up unless Mr. Polian is calling offering Peyton Manning. Also, you actually expect players to answer like that? Most people in the NFL have personalities. Also, most people in general wouldn't answer like that if someone was looking for someone else to take their jobs. I wouldn't.

Chris, how do you feel about the grocery store you work part-time at trying to find a replacement for you?

It ****** sucks.

Are you mad that they're looking at other options to get rid of you?

Yes.

So what do you think Chris' agent says about his public relations after he made these comments?

That's right, he doesn't have an agent because he's a grocery store clerk.

I personally believe all analogies are bad and that two situations are never the same, but even so I still know the difference between a good one and a bad one. You shouldn't use analogies if you don't know that difference.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-19-2010, 08:44 PM
So what do you think Chris' agent says about his public relations after he made these comments?

That's right, he doesn't have an agent because he's a grocery store clerk.

I personally believe all analogies are bad and that two situations are never the same, but even so I still know the difference between a good one and a bad one. You shouldn't use analogies if you don't know that difference.

My point remains the same, bro. If you can't see why someone would be pissed that their brand new boss with zero experience is looking to replace them after they've done a great job for several years, then you need to think for a minute on that one.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-19-2010, 08:49 PM
NFL football isn't like the grocery store.

Oh really? ****, I had no idea there was a difference between the grocery store I work at and the NFL. There's no way I was simply saying that I could understand he was pissed because some scrub new coach wanted to replace him after he did all you could ask of him his first 3 years in the league. No way at all I was saying anyone would be pissed if that were to happen to them in their situation. Nope, I was making a straight up comparison between the grocery store I work at and the NFL. That is exactly what happened.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-19-2010, 08:50 PM
NFL football isn't like the grocery store

Indeed. NFL players have much more leverage, are much more highly valued, and have even more reason to be honest about their job satisfaction.

Xenos
08-19-2010, 08:57 PM
unless you actually read one of the linked articles. then, at bare minimum, bailey did, too.



ah, so it matters when rivers teammates back him, but not when cutler's back him... what about when someone like darren sharper calls him out for doing the exact same thing in other games? just conspiracy?



which is, of course, comprised entirely of what rivers' said.



how, specifically, is being upset about possibly being traded for garbage at ALL similar to game day trash talk? how, specifically, is being upset about being traded for garbage 'blowing it out of proportion'?



what? did you even open the article? it doesn't reference a single comment from pre-game. every comment used is discussing that game.



zomg, the chargers are better than champ bailey! i swear this is relevant!

it's not. it's also a strawman.



so i'm sure that, at any moment, you'll quote articles similar to the champ article, showing that brady and favre were indeed massive trash talkers before they did anything in the nfl.

basically, you could've just posted "rivers is on the chargers. i like the chargers. therefore, i think everything about him is wonderful and everyone else must be lying. also, everyone else is just as bad or worse."
Except that the Cutler incident is the only one that Rivers had denied doing. Everything, from what guys like Sharper and Bailey, have said about him, he has admitted to doing. Rivers has said that he does like trash talking to other players. He even talked about some of things he has said to other DBs, particularly Champ.

Now he may have needed to tone it down to some, but I didn't see people's or player's issues with it or why it made him a douche. The whole fan thing was the only thing that I could see being a problem. The issue is the whole Cutler situation, which I felt that Rivers wasn't even addressing him despite him grabbing his crotch towards our sideline and our players. The crotch grabbing in particular is what made me feel that Cutler was lying more than anything else. And the whole situation with the trade also added to that feeling as well. His comments about wanting to be traded, and then getting upset that he was traded at the end in particular was enlightening.

As for the Bailey comments, they're almost verbatim the ones he said to Rachel Nichols. He may have well repeated them again after the game was over. The only thing missing is that comment about putting Rivers in his place by picking him off a few times. I'm referring to this quote:
"He's not a respectable guy right now, because you talk too much trash and do this and that, but you're really not a great player in this league right now.

"You're surrounded by great players, but you're not a great player. I think he needs to understand where he stands in this league -- where he stands on his team first and foremost."

I'm a little confused about the Favre and Brady comment. Is it that you don't think they were trash talkers before they did anything? Or that you think that it's okay that they can because of who they are? Or that it shouldn't matter what they did?

Xenos
08-19-2010, 11:33 PM
To bring this thread back on track, I also feel that it was Archie who led Eli to his decision to go to New York instead of San Diego. I'm personally over it because I feel that we got the better QB anyways. Plus, Eli ultimately seems like a good guy overall despite what happened. I'm glad that he was able to shut some of his doubters up like Tiki and Shockey.

Now would I have preferred if Rivers had won a superbowl before he did. Absolutely. It's just too bad that we couldn't have seen them versus each other on the big stage. Those injuries to Rivers, Gates, and LT for the AFC Championship game sucked.

San Diego Chicken
08-20-2010, 04:16 AM
Indeed. NFL players have much more leverage, are much more highly valued, and have even more reason to be honest about their job satisfaction.


It's all relative. Your amount of leverage, value and the level that a front office will take your "honesty" seriously is highly dependent on job performance. In this instance, the player highly overestimated his value/leverage.

Edit: Actually, you have to be one of the very best to be able to leverage anything in the NFL. There's only a handful of players that can actually call the shots and dictate to management what they should and should not be doing.

scottyboy
08-20-2010, 07:24 AM
To bring this thread back on track, I also feel that it was Archie who led Eli to his decision to go to New York instead of San Diego. I'm personally over it because I feel that we got the better QB anyways. Plus, Eli ultimately seems like a good guy overall despite what happened. I'm glad that he was able to shut some of his doubters up like Tiki and Shockey.

Now would I have preferred if Rivers had won a superbowl before he did. Absolutely. It's just too bad that we couldn't have seen them versus each other on the big stage. Those injuries to Rivers, Gates, and LT for the AFC Championship game sucked.

I agree, I think, even outside of the whole ZOMGZ ELI-RIVERS! thing espon would have a massive boner over, a Giants-Chargers Super Bowl back in the Giants run would've been a good game. But who am I to complain, I think super bowl 42 was a pretty damn good game anyway :)

NY+Giants=NYG
08-20-2010, 07:35 AM
To bring this thread back on track, I also feel that it was Archie who led Eli to his decision to go to New York instead of San Diego. I'm personally over it because I feel that we got the better QB anyways. Plus, Eli ultimately seems like a good guy overall despite what happened. I'm glad that he was able to shut some of his doubters up like Tiki and Shockey.

Now would I have preferred if Rivers had won a superbowl before he did. Absolutely. It's just too bad that we couldn't have seen them versus each other on the big stage. Those injuries to Rivers, Gates, and LT for the AFC Championship game sucked.

I agree, this thread was about Eli. I feel like ALL 3 teams got who they wanted, and all 3 teams have a QB that excelled. You guys got who you wanted, we got who we wanted, and the Steelers got who they wanted. Only team that got screwed was the Bills in drafting Loseman in the first round.

It took longer for Eli to develop because of strong personalities like Shockey, and Tiki, who now things are fine. Add a horrible OC who is in Canada now, in John Hufangel, and it took time for Eli to develop. That's one element which I hated a lot. But Eli is a great QB for our system, and has a perfect personality for NY.