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vikes_28
08-15-2010, 01:20 PM
figured I'd start one. Just so we could have all the discussion for preseason here rather than in the other thread. :)

Joe Webb and Garrett Mills really impressed me last night. As well as Sage.

yo123
08-15-2010, 05:02 PM
Tarvaris playing one series was ridiculous. They're treating him like he's freakin Peyton Manning. He needs the reps. Even Aaron Rodgers played pretty much the whole first quarter last night.

The entire defensive line was incredible. Jimmy Kennedy was a monster, he was getting some great penetration. Jayme Mitchell made Jason Smith his *****. Damn he looked awful, he's looking like a huge bust so far.

I thought Gerhart looked decent, moved a few piles and kept his legs moving through contact. Did all he could with some below average run blocking.

yo123
08-15-2010, 06:19 PM
Also I'm hoping both of Jaymar Johnson/Logan Payne make the team. Not a huge deal who your 4th and 5th receivers are but they both showed some good things last night. Jaymar probably has a better shot because he was on the team last year and can return punts if needed. Although Reynaud is pretty damn good at that.

Ozzy
08-15-2010, 10:00 PM
I really hope Favre stays in Mississippi. I love the look of our roster, Webb is a stud potentially down the road, Sage looked great and our running back situation is outstanding. Gerhart is a beast and should be a fine addition to our team, and Reynaud is a special pass catching running back, wonderful position move for them having him move over from receiver.

The defense looked deep, great to see Erin Henderson improved, and nice to see that yes it was a flat out steal getting him as an undrafted free agent. Out D-Line looked great, Guion is so much improved and so is Mitchell on the edge. Go figure as well, Cook looked decent and Asher is much improved over last season as well, and not to even mention Mills, wonderful new weapon to have on offense.

The roster looks solid, players competed and they looked like an actual football team, not just a one man band.



Favre will never be able to play up to the level he did last year, so stay home and let the Vikings move forward with this very impressive roster.

yo123
08-15-2010, 11:23 PM
I really hope Favre stays in Mississippi.

If you honestly believe what you just wrote I don't know what to say.

vikes_28
08-16-2010, 12:46 AM
He has an Avril Lavine sig. What else do you expect.

prock
08-16-2010, 01:19 PM
Sorry Ozzy, but you sound high when you say that. There is no way T-Var will make our team better than Favre can.

General Zod
08-16-2010, 04:08 PM
I really hope Favre stays in Mississippi.

My friend, surely your not serious right?

Ozzy
08-16-2010, 06:44 PM
Gentlemen...

I am a football purist.

If I do not like a player, I do not like a player, and I do not change sides just because. Long before last season I hated Brett Favre, hated him as a quarterback and thought he was extremely overrated. Then he comes on the Vikings and has a season of his life, impressive, yes, unbelievable at his age, yes, do I respect him, yes but I still do not care for the man.

Ultimately like I said last year in the long run he set the team back. The defense plays worse with Favre there, the line does not play as well either running the ball and generally there is just a sense that oh Favre is here so we all can not improve and we will still win because of him.

I like improvement, I like the future and I like having something to look forward too in let us say a guy like Joe Webb.


If Favre comes back, there is only one way the season will end, and that is not good for Favre at least, that is my bet. How in the world would he ever play half as good as he did last year? That was his best season of his career and some think he will be like that again? No try the injury interception prone Favre instead of the mistake free accurate Favre.


Either way, I would love to move forward with our roster and see what the real Vikings can do this season. What is there not to like, a more run oriented team, improved and better defense and more ball control. That is the kind of football I like.


I follow not so much teams but systems and how a team plays. That is why currently last season I fell in love with Alabama and Nebraska, and no not after there success, actually quite before their success after the second or third game of the year. I liked those teams the most because they were defense first, run the football and play the game with a old school toughness.


I would love for the Vikings to become that, and with Favre, they are not that because it then becomes all about him.

He has nothing more to prove, so why would I want him back?



Just my opinion, but again I am a purist, I do not change because something is popular, I hated Favre before, respect him but still disliked him and I will not enjoy the Vikings until he is off the roster. Not because of wins or losses, just because I want the future of the team to be solid and not dependent on that old man to make plays for us.


As for Jackson, yeah who knows, but Sage sure looked pretty damn good. But yes short term Favre would be fine for the average fair weather fan, but in the long term Favre is an awful option because once he leaves he leaves the team in quite a poor situation when he leaves.


Just what I think, I hated the idea last year, and laughed when he threw that interception against the Saints. But who knows, maybe the football Gods are against myself and will bring him back again, but then I can see the guy crash and burn which would be very interesting to say the least.


Peterson would be far better off without him, and so would our defense mentally. But yes sure Sidney, Harvin and Berrian want him back, same with the big tight end as well, because they greatly improved because Favre was around. I do not deny that at all, Favre made Sidney into a Pro Bowl caliber receiver finally, but now it is up to Sidney to do it on his own without Favre's help, he gave those guys the confidence last year and they should be able to take the next step without him.




Sure it was only a preseason game, but it sure was fun watching the Vikings without you know who in there.

yo123
08-16-2010, 06:52 PM
tl;dr

But Tarvaris Jackson isn't leading anyone to a Super Bowl. How quickly people forget. Absence makes the heart grow fonder I guess. With the talent on this team getting a little older we need someone who can step in RIGHT NOW. Joe Webb will never amount to anything as a quarterback, we need to stop that talk right now.

marshallb
08-16-2010, 06:56 PM
I don't see how anyone can think that we're a better team with T-Jack at QB instead of Favre. I don't understand how having Favre at QB would make the defense play worse, sure they may give up more yards and maybe even more points because we'd throw the ball more, leaving more time on the clock, but play worse??? As far as Webb goes, I don't think he has much of a chance as a QB, and I definitely wouldn't bet on him, but crazier things have happened.

Ozzy
08-16-2010, 09:44 PM
You guys can have your opinions, but mark my words, we will not win a Super Bowl with Brett Favre as our quarterback.

Come back on me later if we do, but I seriously doubt this is "our year" and he will play as good as he did last year and we will just walk into and win the Super Bowl.

That is clearly just a dream, and in reality it is very unlikely to happen. Thus I would much rather see the Vikings move forward and use the talent they have young and old.




As for the defense, do not tell me last year they played up to their potential. They flat out tanked it at times because they were up so much they just stopped trying. And the importance of the defense decreases when Favre is in the game and I seriously do not believe they give that great of effort because no worries, Favre will lead us back on a come back right? Much less without Favre they will run the ball more, control the clock more and the defense stays off the field.

Play a little better with their backs against the wall, most great defenses do. Much less the fact their safeties are improved and so are their corners, especially Asher Allen. Much less EJ might be back and his brother should contribute as well. Regardless of the fact that the defensive line is as deep as ever.



But yeah try and remember and call me on this all if I am wrong, but I doubt I will be....

prock
08-16-2010, 10:56 PM
If we are up by so much, why does it matter if the defense quits trying as hard? We won the game right? Tavaris Jackson is NOT going to take us where we need to be, and that is in Dallas for the Super Bowl. I hate Brett Favre, too, don't worry. If he wins us a SB, I will love him, but if he doesn't I will go back to hating him. As much as I hate him, I am a realist and I know that we have a better chance at the Super Bowl with Brett Favre as opposed to Tavaris or Sage. Joe Webb isn't a quarterback. He is a worse version of Tavaris. Chilly just needs to give up his fantasies. Sadly, he probably won't get fired anytime soon. But If you want to move forward with Joe Webb as our future, I pity you. I want Favre back. I want a Super Bowl. I can't accept anything less than that with our loaded roster. **** the future, the future is now. I can deal with a few down years if we win a Super Bowl.

marshallb
08-16-2010, 11:01 PM
If we are up by so much, why does it matter if the defense quits trying as hard? We won the game right? Tavaris Jackson is NOT going to take us where we need to be, and that is in Dallas for the Super Bowl. I hate Brett Favre, too, don't worry. If he wins us a SB, I will love him, but if he doesn't I will go back to hating him. As much as I hate him, I am a realist and I know that we have a better chance at the Super Bowl with Brett Favre as opposed to Tavaris or Sage. Joe Webb isn't a quarterback. He is a worse version of Tavaris. Chilly just needs to give up his fantasies. Sadly, he probably won't get fired anytime soon. But If you want to move forward with Joe Webb as our future, I pity you. I want Favre back. I want a Super Bowl. I can't accept anything less than that with our loaded roster. **** the future, the future is now. I can deal with a few down years if we win a Super Bowl.

I could deal with a decade of down years if we win the Super Bowl. I mean hell, how many down years and stretches of down years have we had in the past without even winning a SB?

prock
08-16-2010, 11:17 PM
Exactly. Ozzy, if you don't think we are good enough to win the Super Bowl with Favre, that is fine. But to say we will be better without him is just ignorant. Our future at quarterback isn't even currently on our roster, so it really isn't setting us back.

Ozzy
08-17-2010, 08:44 AM
If we are up by so much, why does it matter if the defense quits trying as hard? We won the game right? Tavaris Jackson is NOT going to take us where we need to be, and that is in Dallas for the Super Bowl. I hate Brett Favre, too, don't worry. If he wins us a SB, I will love him, but if he doesn't I will go back to hating him. As much as I hate him, I am a realist and I know that we have a better chance at the Super Bowl with Brett Favre as opposed to Tavaris or Sage. Joe Webb isn't a quarterback. He is a worse version of Tavaris. Chilly just needs to give up his fantasies. Sadly, he probably won't get fired anytime soon. But If you want to move forward with Joe Webb as our future, I pity you. I want Favre back. I want a Super Bowl. I can't accept anything less than that with our loaded roster. **** the future, the future is now. I can deal with a few down years if we win a Super Bowl.
Ok I would debate how much you "hate" Favre ;o) You hate him if we lose but if we win you love him, thus your hate ratio is pretty low. right?... ;o) Seriously though, I just do not feel he will win us a Super Bowl.

I am one of those guys that kind of hates all the attention quarterbacks get, I like the old school Ravens where Dilfer was a part of the Super Bowl championship but was not the reason. Now a days with all the awful pass coverage rules, quarterbacks rule the world and can do anything they want. Again I say I am more old school, I wish running backs were more dominating, and that is something the Vikings could potentially become.

As for Childress, yes I really liked him before the Favre thing came around. Remember end of last season, how they had their issues, and honestly I think he lost some of the respect from the team because seriously he is giving major favor to Favre and will do anything Favre says. That takes Chilly down a peg in the locker room, at least in my opinion. Now if he can develop Jackson or Webb, that makes him more of a coach. Childress is lucky to have all of those fine assistants, that saves his job and his respect the team has for him.


That is besides the point, I still would love to see us run the ball and play better defense and see how far we can get. Honestly Favre gave guys I mentioned earlier confidence, but they should be able to play that well without him, and if they cannot then clearly Favre made them better than they are and for the Vikings that is pretty sad considering most of those guys are our young talent.

Clearly players listen to Favre though, he has the leadership abilities none of the others have. Still fact is the guy will be destroyed this year by defenses that blitz him to literal death. You think teams won't be prepared for Favre and know exactly what to do to him this year? Again they will blitz him to death and attack that ankle of, believe me they will get him down.



We will see what happens though. Good old days of Dilfer and the Ravens Defense came first and for most, I wish those were back.


Sure I want the Vikings to win the Super Bowl, but not on the shoulders of that freaking Green Bay Packer.

prock
08-17-2010, 12:13 PM
Ok I would debate how much you "hate" Favre ;o) You hate him if we lose but if we win you love him, thus your hate ratio is pretty low. right?... ;o) Seriously though, I just do not feel he will win us a Super Bowl.

My love of winning is greater than just about anything, including my hatred of Favre.

I am one of those guys that kind of hates all the attention quarterbacks get, I like the old school Ravens where Dilfer was a part of the Super Bowl championship but was not the reason. Now a days with all the awful pass coverage rules, quarterbacks rule the world and can do anything they want. Again I say I am more old school, I wish running backs were more dominating, and that is something the Vikings could potentially become.

Well, the Vikings struggle to run block. Adrian Peterson fumbles. We have potential to be that dominant run team, but it would be very difficult. I too love old school smash mouth football, but our offensive line isn't dominant enough to make this happen.

As for Childress, yes I really liked him before the Favre thing came around. Remember end of last season, how they had their issues, and honestly I think he lost some of the respect from the team because seriously he is giving major favor to Favre and will do anything Favre says. That takes Chilly down a peg in the locker room, at least in my opinion. Now if he can develop Jackson or Webb, that makes him more of a coach. Childress is lucky to have all of those fine assistants, that saves his job and his respect the team has for him.

Joe Webb won't be a quarterback. And I think some players don't like Chilly catering for Favre, but I bet most of the guys know what Favre can do for the team as opposed to T-Var. And I always hated Chilly, too. He is a great coach Monday-Saturday, and he always tanks on Sundays.


That is besides the point, I still would love to see us run the ball and play better defense and see how far we can get. Honestly Favre gave guys I mentioned earlier confidence, but they should be able to play that well without him, and if they cannot then clearly Favre made them better than they are and for the Vikings that is pretty sad considering most of those guys are our young talent.

But you fail to understand that quarterback is by far the most important position. After years of watching Brad Johnson, Gus Ferrotte, Tavaris Jackson, etc, and you are willing to go back to that? We have been that running team with **** quarterback play. I don't want to go back to that. I enjoy having a competent quarterback. If you don't want that, then that's fine, but I enjoy having a quarterback who knows what the **** he is doing.

Clearly players listen to Favre though, he has the leadership abilities none of the others have. Still fact is the guy will be destroyed this year by defenses that blitz him to literal death. You think teams won't be prepared for Favre and know exactly what to do to him this year? Again they will blitz him to death and attack that ankle of, believe me they will get him down.



We will see what happens though. Good old days of Dilfer and the Ravens Defense came first and for most, I wish those were back.


Sure I want the Vikings to win the Super Bowl, but not on the shoulders of that freaking Green Bay Packer.

I want to win the Super Bowl in any fashion possible. On the shoulders of Favre wouldn't be my first option, but ****, I will take it. I don't care how we win it. I am pretty sure just about every other Vikings fan will agree with me there.

vikes_28
08-17-2010, 02:54 PM
I am a football purist.


Sig quote.

Ozzy
08-18-2010, 10:20 AM
Well you got your wish man. Supposedly....

Chances of Favre playing like he did last season, note it was his best season of his entire career. I give it a 15% chance personally.



Should be seeing a lot of this, again I say that especially considering what the Saints did to him, he will see that constantly and will most likely break his most consecutive games played streak as well.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dqKaQj1ZU28x/610x.jpg





Great for the NFL though, makes it even more popular, and it will be fun to watch. The haters can watch him fail, and the lovers can watch and hope for the best.


I clearly respect him a lot more because of last year, proving everyone wrong and playing so great and being such an impressive leader. But with the little drama we had at the end of the season, and his ankle and or health. I do not see it ending good, and if it does and he plays as good as last year, well then I am completely dead wrong. Sadly I am the minority in this, and everyone expects him to be great and every team, coach or player expects him to be great so I doubt he gets that benefit of the doubt like he did last season. He will be getting every players best shot, and if he can take that, more power to him.

prock
08-18-2010, 03:17 PM
15% chance of playing that well? I would guess higher, and he doesn't even need to play that well. He just needs to play well, not amazing. I also don't think he will get beat up as bad as he did against the Saints, I think the NFL will be watching for those late hits all season. The Saints were cheap shotting him all game and had many unflagged illegal hits. The facts are is that we have a better chance of winning WITH Favre as opposed to WITHOUT Favre. So I am glad he came back, we can worry about the future next year. We need to win this year.

Crazy_Chris
08-18-2010, 06:26 PM
Too many people are focusing on the fact that last year was his best statistical season ever and that he won't be able to play that well again. Well Prock is 100% right Favre doesn't need to play that well to give the Vikings a chance to win the SB.

Ozzy
08-18-2010, 07:24 PM
Too many people are focusing on the fact that last year was his best statistical season ever and that he won't be able to play that well again. Well Prock is 100% right Favre doesn't need to play that well to give the Vikings a chance to win the SB.I agree with that, ok so which Favre season do you want? The 05 season where he threw 29 interceptions? Or the 08 season where he threw 22? ;o) Last year was by far his lowest interception total, and do not pretend that add 10 or 15 interceptions to that total will not make a very big difference.


Will see what happens though, we will see how tough he actually is.

vikes_28
08-22-2010, 02:09 AM
On a more positive note, the vikes play tonight!!!

General Zod
08-22-2010, 06:00 PM
Judd just tweeted that Jamarca Sanford will be starting at safety in place of Tyrell Johnson. Im anxious to see how he does.

The_Dude
08-22-2010, 09:19 PM
EJ looked fantastic during the first quarter tonight.

I breathed a slight sigh of relief.

Ozzy
08-22-2010, 10:01 PM
Flat out lovely to see Johnson hit the pine and they get a new safety in there, also lovely to see Sullivan not get snaps and Herrera play a little center. Probably will not fly but at least they realize they need more than Sullivan at center.


Also if they cut Joe Webb I will kill someone. Yeah sure not going to build a team around him, but the kid is huge, sees over the defense, is an outstanding athlete and simply looks calm and cool in the pocket and can improve so much. He is by far the better project quarterback when comparing Jackson in his first season. Jackson is just not that big, not that calm in the pocket and looks rushed. We cannot cut Webb!

Cook is really impressing as well, that is a surprise because he did not much on Virginia. And yes their defensive line, like was said on the broadcast, they are the best in football considering their depth, that second unit could start for 1/3 or maybe even 1/2 of the NFL teams.



Note best play of the game, you all know what it was ;o)

marshallb
08-23-2010, 07:44 PM
I'm pretty sure the reason that Sullivan didn't play was because he injured his ankle, nothing to do with benching him. Cooper started with the first team at C and Herrera at RG and then Herrera played a little C with the 2nd team. I don't know about Webb being the future at QB, but damn! he's one hell of an athlete

I was very pleased with EJ's play, he looked very good. Overall though I didn't think we looked very good, sure a few players stood out, but overall I wasn't impressed.

If I get a chance I'll right up some more thoughts, but if I don't get to it tonight or tomorrow I'm not gonna get around to it at all.

vikes_28
08-23-2010, 11:40 PM
For once I agree with Ozzy. I fully support Joe Webb as a project QB. The kid is an amazing athlete. Hell, we could have a Tom Brady situation brewing. I don't care if he ends up making the roster as a WR or TE or w/e, but he needs to make the roster in some way.

Ozzy
08-24-2010, 07:14 AM
Yeah EJ looked great, very good to have him back. Still need to fix our offensive line, then again might not want too for reasons we all know ;o)


But in terms of the running game, it is not that dominating at all, it was not even last year and with the backs we have we should be able to run the ball better. Hell Titans offensive line would kill ours, they can flat out run block and do so very well. Our guys are slow, do not stay on their blocks and arguably outside of Hutchinson none of them are elite run blockers. McKinnie seems to be losing it, Loadholt is ok but not elite, can lean on a guy just like McKinnie can though. Still say the center with Sullivan is not ideal for the run game, sure he can move but he is not powerful once he gets to the point. DeGeare is a great pickup though, he should make the team and be a solid guard opposite Hutchinson. Honestly though with that talent at running back we should be a LOT better running team than we are.


And again, great to see that defensive line, especially the backups against so many good offensive linemen with the 49ers. That second unit played great against which shows it was not just the poor Rams offensive line they were up against, guys like Robison, Guion, Mitchell and Evans can flat out play.

marshallb
08-24-2010, 04:53 PM
For once I agree with Ozzy. I fully support Joe Webb as a project QB. The kid is an amazing athlete. Hell, we could have a Tom Brady situation brewing. I don't care if he ends up making the roster as a WR or TE or w/e, but he needs to make the roster in some way.

I think he's a hell of an athlete, and like I said, I don't know if he'll ever be anything at QB, but he's an incredible athlete. I'd like to see him at WR, especially with Rice out for a while, using his large frame in that same role, but at this point he's gotta be too far behind to make the transition full time this year. Maybe we could start having him spend a little time at WR and in the WR meetings, as well as at QB, although learning both positions as a rookie in an entirely new system would have to be tough as hell. A guy can dream though, right?

Ozzy
08-25-2010, 07:25 AM
marshallb I think he's a hell of an athlete, and like I said, I don't know if he'll ever be anything at QB, but he's an incredible athlete. I'd like to see him at WR, especially with Rice out for a while, using his large frame in that same role, but at this point he's gotta be too far behind to make the transition full time this year. Maybe we could start having him spend a little time at WR and in the WR meetings, as well as at QB, although learning both positions as a rookie in an entirely new system would have to be tough as hell. A guy can dream though, right?Yeah I never listen to sports talk radio, but stopped on it while driving yesterday.

They said the same ****, and yes Webb could move to receiver, but honestly clearly Favre should not have come back if the team is scrambling so much just to fill a receiver spot and make him happy and will sign any loser receiver Brett likes off the street, aka Javon Walker. Seriously this is clear effect he has on the future of the Vikings roster. They are doing whatever the hell right now because Rice is out for awhile and Harvin has been having his issues and Favre is scared because without weapons to throw to he is about as useless as can be. Heck I heard a guy say he would still throw for 24 TDs and 12 INTs this year with the weaker receiving core, I personally think if Rice does not come back the way he was and neither does Harvin, say Harvin is on and off that number for his season touch downs and INTs is going to be way lower on the TD side and higher on the INT side. That is if he even makes it through the season uninjured!


Kind of funny how they are scrambling though, and kind of sad. But in the long run, if Vince Young gets a shot at quarterback, so should Webb. However yes this year maybe move him to receiver, because he clearly will not be playing much quarterback. Has that ever happen though? A quarterback moves to receiver early in his career then moves back to quarterback later and develops into one? I cannot remember that happening ever.