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View Full Version : Victor Cruz, WR, UMass


dietcoke111
08-17-2010, 07:54 PM
Not a Jets fan, but reports is that he is tearing it up in Practice and did very well last night on MNF on ESPN. What happened? Why was he overlooked?

phlysac
08-17-2010, 09:19 PM
Not a Jets fan, but reports is that he is tearing it up in Practice and did very well last night on MNF on ESPN. What happened? Why was he overlooked?

He's with the Giants.

He was an All-Conference WR at UMass and had preseason All-American accolades.

He was likely a top 50-75 WR prospect in 2010.

Really got attention after an impressive performance at Boston College's Pro-Day.

He added his name to a huge list of UDFAWR's to sign with teams this offseason.

His performance was HUGE but I'd like to see more before I consider him a HUGE miss by other teams.

descendency
08-17-2010, 09:20 PM
Because he went to U-Mass.

wonderbredd24
08-17-2010, 09:28 PM
Because he went to U-Mass.

So did Vladimir Ducasse who went in round 2 (and I wish we would've gotten him), so it's not like people weren't seeing UMass game tape.

Halsey
08-17-2010, 11:00 PM
I'd be highly skeptical of anyone who said they were talking about him back before the Draft. From what I've read, he was a 5 year player at UMass who was good, but didn't put up mind blowing numbers or anything. Don't be too quick to assume the Giants will keep him around. The Giants have a number of talented, young WRs: Nicks, Smith, Barden, Manningham, and numerous rookies. Eli should be pretty happy.

superman8456
08-17-2010, 11:21 PM
I'd be highly skeptical of anyone who said they were talking about him back before the Draft. From what I've read, he was a 5 year player at UMass who was good, but didn't put up mind blowing numbers or anything. Don't be too quick to assume the Giants will keep him around. The Giants have a number of talented, young WRs: Nicks, Smith, Barden, Manningham, and numerous rookies. Eli should be pretty happy.

Barden sucks camel dick.

Rosebud
08-17-2010, 11:50 PM
Barden sucks camel dick.

link? (10 char)

superman8456
08-18-2010, 12:03 AM
link? (10 char)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12555

Hurricanes25
08-18-2010, 12:04 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12555

The Giants knew they were drafting a very raw player. He still needs some time to develop. They don't even need him right now anyways.

brat316
08-18-2010, 12:15 AM
Who is the WR the Giants recently cut?

phlysac
08-18-2010, 12:35 AM
They waived Domenik Hixon (who was injured) but he cleared waivers and was placed on IR.

Other than that... Chris Davis and Adam Jennings were waived.

descendency
08-18-2010, 07:27 AM
So did Vladimir Ducasse who went in round 2 (and I wish we would've gotten him), so it's not like people weren't seeing UMass game tape.

Ducasse was also a 6'5", 330 lb LT. If someone has a 6'5", 330lb LT, I want to see them regardless of their school. Lots of people have 6'0" WRs though.

wonderbredd24
08-18-2010, 08:18 AM
Ducasse was also a 6'5", 330 lb LT. If someone has a 6'5", 330lb LT, I want to see them regardless of their school. Lots of people have 6'0" WRs though.

They're on the same tape. If you watched Ducasse, you'd see Cruz. If he was blowing up on UMass tape, scouts would see it.

Rosebud
08-18-2010, 09:52 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12555

That's almost as clever as ripping on Mario after his rookie year, good thing that guy sucks camel dick to cause he certainly wasn't tearing teams up last year after having gotten to sit for a year...

NY+Giants=NYG
08-18-2010, 10:01 AM
So did Vladimir Ducasse who went in round 2 (and I wish we would've gotten him), so it's not like people weren't seeing UMass game tape.

Who was their QB when Cruz was there? Was he any good? Who knows maybe he was a later 7th round grade, but teams went in a different direction. It's not the first time an undrafted free agent had success.

FUNBUNCHER
08-18-2010, 01:56 PM
Why was Miles Austin undrafted?? If you go to a D1AA school, the harder it is IMO for pro teams to effectively evaluate skill players, because of the competition level, in part.

Scouts aren't gods and drafting players is more art (gut feeling) than science anyway.

As for Barden, hard to say a guy's garbage then you don't tell us what players he would have unseated his rookie year to move up the depth chart.

Every other team in the NFC East, Barden would have played significant minutes his rookie year.

onejayhawk
08-19-2010, 08:30 AM
Why was Miles Austin undrafted?? If you go to a D1AA school, the harder it is IMO for pro teams to effectively evaluate skill players, because of the competition level, in part.

Scouts aren't gods and drafting players is more art (gut feeling) than science anyway.

As for Barden, hard to say a guy's garbage then you don't tell us what players he would have unseated his rookie year to move up the depth chart.

Every other team in the NFC East, Barden would have played significant minutes his rookie year.

Miles Austin also spent several years as the "Big Potential" guy. It makes you wonder what gets thrown out with the trash.

J

scottyboy
08-19-2010, 08:52 AM
Barden sucks camel dick.

you don't say smart things, do you?

SeanTaylorRIP
08-19-2010, 09:14 AM
Why was Miles Austin undrafted?? If you go to a D1AA school, the harder it is IMO for pro teams to effectively evaluate skill players, because of the competition level, in part.

Scouts aren't gods and drafting players is more art (gut feeling) than science anyway.

As for Barden, hard to say a guy's garbage then you don't tell us what players he would have unseated his rookie year to move up the depth chart.

Every other team in the NFC East, Barden would have played significant minutes his rookie year.

That's not really true at all bro.

descendency
08-19-2010, 09:23 AM
That's not really true at all bro.

The Eagles came to mind instantly.

FUNBUNCHER
08-19-2010, 09:51 AM
I think I can say with full certainty as a Skins fan that a healthy Barden would have played ahead of broke down Malcolm Kelly, dead legs Antwan Randel El, or 50/50 Devin Thomas.

I think he would have had an opportunity to catch at least 50 balls last year.

scottyboy
08-19-2010, 12:23 PM
that's absurd. How can you take a hypothetical and say it with"full certainty"? that's ridiculous. It makes 0 sense.

he was a 3rd round rookie out of a small school and people are saying he sucks or could've caught 50 balls. mind blowing. god forbid there be a rational middle ground once in a while

FUNBUNCHER
08-19-2010, 12:27 PM
Malcolm Kelly is nearly a bust. Devin Thomas is sketchy. Don't get all bent, it's just my opinion about the state of the Skins WR corps last season.

scottyboy
08-19-2010, 12:32 PM
I understand, but people aren't understanding Ramses didn't even DRESS last year. you know who did? Sinorice Moss.

Barden (of whom I'm a big fan) couldn't (and still really can't) get seperation to save his life and who's hands are still inconsistant. To say with full certainty if he was a skin he would've caught around 50 balls is pretty absurd.

then again, so is just saying he sucks.

Caulibflower
08-19-2010, 12:54 PM
Here's the game vid, for those who are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFEuwM2yWs8&feature=related

FUNBUNCHER
08-19-2010, 01:02 PM
I think if Barden played on specials, kick coverage, he would have been active last season.
Actually I've talked to Giants fans who've told me that unless Barden was a superstar as a rookie, there was very little possibility Barden was going to break into the Giants starting WR rotation last season anyway.

FUNBUNCHER
08-19-2010, 01:05 PM
Here's the game vid, for those who are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFEuwM2yWs8&feature=related


Wow!!

Have to think he made the team with that performance.

scottyboy
08-19-2010, 01:16 PM
I think if Barden played on specials, kick coverage, he would have been active last season.
Actually I've talked to Giants fans who've told me that unless Barden was a superstar as a rookie, there was very little possibility Barden was going to break into the Giants starting WR rotation last season anyway.

Yes but that's a huge IF. The fact that he couldn't and the fact that his skill set wasn't enough to put him on the roster over Moss says something, does it not?
Of course a 3rd round rookie wasn't going to break the starting WR rotation, it's crazy to think he WOULD.
but again, you've seen NOTHING at the NFL level to think at all he would have caught 50 balls if he was on the skins last year. that's just crazy

Rosebud
08-19-2010, 01:41 PM
I'm probably Ramses Barden's second biggest fan on this site behind CC but even I don't think he would've put up 50 catches for the skins last year. He does do a great job of going up for the ball, he's big and strong and a great run blocker as well, but the kid needed a lot of work on his route running, not just sharpening his cuts but also dropping his hips so that he can sharpen his cuts. I think Ramses is going to be a star opposite Hakeem Nicks, but he was a player for whom not playing as a rookie was a big benefit because it let him focus on his receiving skills and not special teams like Sinorice Moss or Derek Hagan were.

Still if we weren't so deep at WR I do think he would've gotten on the field, but expecting more than a redzone weapon as a rookie would've been asking too much. That said I have to re-iterate just how beastly he can become, especially down in the redzone where he'll flourish not only with his size and leaping ability, but also with his power and run blocking. I really see a lot of good Plax in this kid as he's not just a big receiver but he's got sleeper speed, is incredibly powerful and really loves to push DBs around when blocking.

dietcoke111
08-19-2010, 10:43 PM
He's with the Giants.
Oops. Typo.

LonghornsLegend
08-20-2010, 12:49 AM
Every other team in the NFC East, Barden would have played significant minutes his rookie year.

Not sure how you figure that. Washington is the only one you can even make an argument for and it's still sketchy there. Dallas had a very impressive rookie WR in Ogletree, and it was hard enough trying to get him meaningful snaps and reps on the field. We were able to find formations and packages to get him the ball, but he was really polished and that was the only thing that made that happen. Barden would of been close to PS material for us. Who weren't we going to play to get him minutes?


Same for Philly. Maclin and Desean played primary minutes in that offense. Unless you thought Barden could play outside then put 1 of those guys inside he still wasn't going to play much.


Barden was incredibly raw, but even if you felt he was going to play so many significant minutes can you tell me who was going to lose the minutes to let that happen?

FUNBUNCHER
08-20-2010, 01:09 AM
Got it.

Just because the Skins have issues at WR doesn't mean the rest of the NFCE does.

But so far, I still think Barden has upside. The speed and size are there, I think his hands are good enough, and now it's about him learning how to become an effective route runner.

yourfavestoner
08-20-2010, 01:51 AM
Got it.

Just because the Skins have issues at WR doesn't mean the rest of the NFCE does.

But so far, I still think Barden has upside. The speed and size are there, I think his hands are good enough, and now it's about him learning how to become an effective route runner.

Exactly. The NFCE is about as stacked as it gets when it comes to WRs. it's almost impossible to say that either Giants, Eagles, or Cowboys is discernibly better than the others. Each group has it's own strengths, and it's really a matter of preference.

Go_Eagles77
08-20-2010, 09:52 AM
Exactly. The NFCE is about as stacked as it gets when it comes to WRs. it's almost impossible to say that either Giants, Eagles, or Cowboys is discernibly better than the others. Each group has it's own strengths, and it's really a matter of preference.
Which is pretty amazing because this time last year people were saying it was one of, if not the biggest weakness in the division.

PACKmanN
08-21-2010, 11:24 AM
Why was Miles Austin undrafted?? If you go to a D1AA school, the harder it is IMO for pro teams to effectively evaluate skill players, because of the competition level, in part.

Scouts aren't gods and drafting players is more art (gut feeling) than science anyway.

As for Barden, hard to say a guy's garbage then you don't tell us what players he would have unseated his rookie year to move up the depth chart.

Every other team in the NFC East, Barden would have played significant minutes his rookie year.
you're still missing the Eagles and Cowboys part. The Redskins are not the only team in the East

Sniper
08-21-2010, 11:51 AM
Unless you thought Barden could play outside then put 1 of those guys inside he still wasn't going to play much.

And take Jason "Sex Panther" Avant off the field? Um, no.

Rosebud
08-21-2010, 12:50 PM
Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous and I think Barden's going to be a star.

prock
08-21-2010, 10:18 PM
And take Jason "Sex Panther" Avant off the field? Um, no.

You mean Jason "Smells Like Bigfoot's Dick" Avant.

dannyz
08-21-2010, 10:57 PM
You mean Jason "Smells Like Bigfoot's Dick" Avant.

That is a good one :)

Sniper
08-22-2010, 08:49 AM
You mean Jason "Smells Like Bigfoot's Dick" Avant.

I will take your mother Dorothy prock out for a nice seafood dinner and NEVER CALL HER AGAIN!

Go_Eagles77
08-22-2010, 09:47 AM
You mean Jason "Smells Like Bigfoot's Dick" Avant.
I don't get it...

descendency
08-22-2010, 10:32 AM
Yes but that's a huge IF. The fact that he couldn't and the fact that his skill set wasn't enough to put him on the roster over Moss says something, does it not?

Not really. Moss was a veteran in the system so the coaches were comfortable with what they had in him. He may suck, but Barden was having to learn a lot as well as play football well.

Not making an excuse just for him, but rookies that don't have elite talent rarely break into starting roles.

TB_39
08-25-2010, 12:10 AM
I don't get it...

Was just extending the references to "Anchorman". Good movie. Watch it.

Duffman57
08-25-2010, 01:57 AM
Honestly it was cool. But its not really that impressive.

He only got seperation once against a CB that mad a horrible play, and got lucky to even touch the ball on two of those. At least 2 if not 3 of those balls should have been batted down. He did a great job of adjusting to the ball, and showed some stickey hands, but thats about it.

Overall, its pretty cool for him, but he didn't really show much that would urge me to put him on a team.

PrimetimeTheDon
08-30-2010, 05:10 PM
Honestly it was cool. But its not really that impressive.

He only got seperation once against a CB that mad a horrible play, and got lucky to even touch the ball on two of those. At least 2 if not 3 of those balls should have been batted down. He did a great job of adjusting to the ball, and showed some stickey hands, but thats about it.

Overall, its pretty cool for him, but he didn't really show much that would urge me to put him on a team.

Lol.

Cruz is legit. Next Miles Austin. His hands, body control, speed, break tackle ability, and hops are all exceptional.

When you see someone like Cruz ball the way he balls it doesn't take Mike Mayock to see there is something very real there.


NYG are ridiculously deep at WR, but Cruz will find a place in the NFL sooner than later. And I absolutely see #1 WR potential.

bigbluedefense
09-01-2010, 08:40 AM
I like him in the slot. He'll be a solid player. Will he be elite? Probably not, but I think he can be a #3 WR.

For an UDFA, that's pretty good. If he was 3 inches taller he couldve been a Miles Austin. But I think his size prevents him from being that.

xxxxxxxx
09-01-2010, 09:19 AM
Lol.

Cruz is legit. Next Miles Austin. His hands, body control, speed, break tackle ability, and hops are all exceptional.

When you see someone like Cruz ball the way he balls it doesn't take Mike Mayock to see there is something very real there.


NYG are ridiculously deep at WR, but Cruz will find a place in the NFL sooner than later. And I absolutely see #1 WR potential.

Next miles austin? lol wanna sig bet that?

xxxxxxxx
09-01-2010, 09:20 AM
He's bradshaw, but a wide reciever. Both small and quick and good football players, but NO speed. lol my mom can run down Bradshaw with a broken leg.

bigbluedefense
09-01-2010, 09:43 AM
You don't need top end speed to be a legit slot WR though. Wes Welker went undrafted bc he was short and had no top end speed, but he was tough and quick, and has great change of direction speed so he managed just fine.

Cruz though seems he does have more vertical speed than wiggle. He gets open deep consistently. He's a little stiff for a small guy so I wouldn't say his game is like Welkers.

He has straightline speed and is tough and has great body control and hands. But his height and slight stiffness will prevent him from being great.

xxxxxxxx
09-01-2010, 09:53 AM
No they are good players, I was just making a speed joke. I would love to have both on my team BBD. No harm no foul. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

EDIT: But it would be nice if bradshaw had speed. That is why he went so late in the draft. He breaks big runs and gets caught, everytime. EVERYTIME. He's gonna get caught in the red zone multiple times this season after breaking a big run, and then maybe you guys need to settle for 3 points instead of 7, if he had breakaway speed. That is the only thing that sucks. I see D-lineman and linebackers run him down all the time. Still a good football player, but i'm not a fan of that.

bigbluedefense
09-01-2010, 09:59 AM
Oh no doubt. I knew what you meant, no harm.

I think Bradshaw will have decent speed this year. Don't forget, he was playing on 2 broken ankles last year. That's pretty bad ass. He looks much faster this year with some healthy legs on him.

xxxxxxxx
09-01-2010, 10:20 AM
I just go back to the jets preseason game, opening the new meadowlands, and that play were bradshaw had that like 50 yard play down the sideline, a great play no doubt, but jets front 7 players were running stride for stride with him, like Calvin Pace, etc. That's just not what I want, still a solid back nonetheless.

LookItsAlDavis
09-01-2010, 09:02 PM
It's nonsense to rip on Barden after one year....all you have to do is look at Vincent Jackson. They have similar measurables, both came out of FCS schools, and were both first day picks. It took Jackson several years to get adapted. He had what 3 catches his first year?

BaLLiN
09-01-2010, 09:18 PM
Hopefully Barden can master more than just a fly route, because thats all he really came in with. And whoever brought up the special teams argument was entirely correct. Barden looked like horse ***** anytime he tried to block someone on specials, for someone with such a big body you need to be able to use it to your advantage. He certainly wont be returning punts or kicks, so he needs to find some way to prove he can play football, not just run straight.

PrimetimeTheDon
09-03-2010, 09:35 PM
Ramses Barden is irrelevant now that Victor Cruz has arrived. Please stop talking about him.

Rosebud
09-04-2010, 10:17 AM
Ramses Barden is irrelevant now that Victor Cruz has arrived. Please stop talking about him.

They're completely different WRs, if anything Cruz is irrelevent because we already had Nicks who brings a lot of the same strengths, but Barden's just a completely different receiver if he continues developing.