PDA

View Full Version : 2010 NFL MVP, who will win it this season?


J-Mike88
09-02-2010, 09:45 AM
Vote for your PREDICTION, with your brain not your heart if possible.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/102026863.html
Gruden was asked to name five players who could win NFL most valuable player honors this season.

Gruden said the choice of the winner will have much to do with the success of his team, and his choices skewed to players on teams that are expected to make some noise.

Gruden picked a running back and then four quarterbacks: Tennessee running back Chris Johnson, Indianapolis' Peyton Manning, Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers, New Orleans' Drew Brees and Dallas' Tony Romo.

Since 1957, The Associated Press most valuable player award (or most outstanding player award as it was called from 1957-'60), has been won by a quarterback 35 times and by a running back 17 times. Two years, 1997 (Brett Favre, Barry Sanders) and 2003 (Peyton Manning, Steve McNair), the award was shared.

Only 3 times has the award gone to a player who was not a quarterback or running back: 1971 (Minnesota defensive tackle Alan Page), 1982 (Washington kicker Mark Moseley) and 1986 (New York Giants linebacker Lawrence Taylor.)

Bengals78
09-02-2010, 09:46 AM
Matt Stafford

J-Mike88
09-02-2010, 09:48 AM
Matt Stafford
Umm, that would be "other", lol

Bengals78
09-02-2010, 09:49 AM
Umm, that would be "other", lol

I get it. You dont want it to look THAT lopsided ;)

Ness
09-02-2010, 09:49 AM
I'm guessing Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, or Peyton Manning.

J-Mike88
09-02-2010, 10:12 AM
Anyone else notice that Gruden didn't even mention the Patriot as a candidate?

Shiver
09-02-2010, 10:14 AM
I think it will either be Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. Never assume these guys are thinking about the money, and both Randy Moss and Tom Brady have big new contracts on the mind. They are going to go bananas and their defense being poorer than usual will add to the MVP case. I went with Rodgers, for the reasons outlined in my truths article, but Brady is my 2nd choice.

Splat
09-02-2010, 10:46 AM
Aaron Rodgers because he is on my FF team.

LonghornsLegend
09-02-2010, 10:46 AM
You sure don't mind making threads lol. I went with Chris Johnson, that man is motivated and I believe him when he says he wants to be NFL MVP, and think he puts in the work to make it possible. Last year if the Titans had a better record he could have been, so I'm gonna go with him no matter how unlikely it may be.

A Perfect Score
09-02-2010, 11:20 AM
I went with Brady. I'm a huge fan of what Aaron Rodgers is doing in GB, but I think that team is one season away from being truly successful, while I think the Pats are going to make a strong Super Bowl run this year and Brady will be the key figure in that.

Splat
09-02-2010, 11:22 AM
I went with Brady. I'm a huge fan of what Aaron Rodgers is doing in GB, but I think that team is one season away from being truly successful, while I think the Pats are going to make a strong Super Bowl run this year and Brady will be the key figure in that.

The Pat's D is a mess.

tjsunstein
09-02-2010, 11:24 AM
My heart says Aaron Rodgers so that's where I voted but it would surprise me if the AP gets another boner for Favre or Manning.

prock
09-02-2010, 11:26 AM
Manning, Eli.

Shiver
09-02-2010, 11:41 AM
The Pat's D is a mess.


It is the supporting cast argument. Peyton Manning didn't deserve it last year over Drew Brees or Brett Favre, but he won it based on the perception that his supporting cast wasn't as good as it has been in the past. The Patriots struggling on defense will feed into how "valuable" Brady is.

Not saying it is legitimate, but that is how these voters see things. That's why a RB will not win the MVP, barring an LT 31 touchdown season on a 14-2 team.

yourfavestoner
09-02-2010, 11:42 AM
Manning, Eli.

Ooooh, nice darkhorse pick. I like. I don't think he'll get the opportunity to toss the rock around as much as he did last year, but if they win the division and he's got numbers close to what he had last year, I think it's definitely a possibility.

bigbluedefense
09-02-2010, 12:16 PM
I hope its either Adrian Peterson, Ryan Matthews, CJ Spiller, Matt Ryan, or Jermichael Finley since all of them are on my fantasy team.

Hell, throw in Steve Smith (Giants), Dexter McCluster, Bernard Berrian, Mohammed Massoquoi, Greg Olsen, and Sidney Rice in the mix too for good measure.

CC.SD
09-02-2010, 12:26 PM
http://www.philiprivers.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/philip-rivers.jpg

bigbluedefense
09-02-2010, 12:27 PM
Oh Malcolm Floyd too. Forgot about him.

Basically, I'm rooting for the Chargers to either run it in with Matthews, or throw a td to Floyd.

Come on Phillip, I know you love Floyd's wingspan. Make it happen.

Don Vito
09-02-2010, 12:28 PM
http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/tom-brady-stetson-man.jpg

CC.SD
09-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Oh Malcolm Floyd too. Forgot about him.

Basically, I'm rooting for the Chargers to either run it in with Matthews, or throw a td to Floyd.

Come on Phillip, I know you love Floyd's wingspan. Make it happen.

Fun fact, Floyd was the receiver on Rivers' very first touchdown pass in the NFL, circa 2004.

Floyd is definitely my biggest quasi-sleeper pick out there. If he plays the full season he is guaranteed to put up 1000+ and 10 TDs, probably on a low amount of catches, but still he is getting picked in the 8th, 9th rounds...

bigbluedefense
09-02-2010, 12:35 PM
Fun fact, Floyd was the receiver on Rivers' very first touchdown pass in the NFL, circa 2004.

Floyd is definitely my biggest quasi-sleeper pick out there. If he plays the full season he is guaranteed to put up 1000+ and 10 TDs, probably on a low amount of catches, but still he is getting picked in the 8th, 9th rounds...

Who should I start at WR?

So basically, right now my team is:

QB: Matt Ryan
RB: Adrian Peterson
RB/WR: Ryan Matthews
RB/WR: CJ Spiller
WR: Steve Smith (NYG)
WR/TE: Malcolm Floyd
TE: Jermichael Finley
D: Oakland
K: Kasey


And I have Berrian, Sidney Rice, MoMas, McCluster, Greg Olsen, and Gronk on the bench.

I'm iffy on Spiller and Floyd in my starting lineup. But Im not sure if I should replace either of em with the guys I have on my bench. Thoughts?

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 12:39 PM
Rodgers
Manning
Brees
Rivers

The voting will finish in that order, mark it down

P-L
09-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Peyton Manning will win it even though there will be two or three more deserving candidates. Oh wait, this is 2010 not 2009...

ThePudge
09-02-2010, 01:00 PM
I have a (completely unique) feeling that Aaron Rodgers will blow it up this year. Whether he can out-produce Peyton, win more games, & win his division remains to be seen. My pick is Rodgers, but Manning/Brees aren't going down without a fight.

CC.SD
09-02-2010, 01:00 PM
Who should I start at WR?

So basically, right now my team is:

QB: Matt Ryan
RB: Adrian Peterson
RB/WR: Ryan Matthews
RB/WR: CJ Spiller
WR: Steve Smith (NYG)
WR/TE: Malcolm Floyd
TE: Jermichael Finley
D: Oakland
K: Kasey


And I have Berrian, Sidney Rice, MoMas, McCluster, Greg Olsen, and Gronk on the bench.



I wouldn't change that lineup unless the buzz on McCluster gets white hot and you're in a PPR league. The path is surprisingly clear for Spiller, someone has to get the carries.

Especially to start the season I would go with Smith and Floyd over Berrian, so with Rice out, Massoquoi not having a QB, and the rest being rookies/in an offense that ignores them, you're set.

Splat
09-02-2010, 01:00 PM
It is the supporting cast argument. Peyton Manning didn't deserve it last year over Drew Brees or Brett Favre, but he won it based on the perception that his supporting cast wasn't as good as it has been in the past. The Patriots struggling on defense will feed into how "valuable" Brady is.

Not saying it is legitimate, but that is how these voters see things. That's why a RB will not win the MVP, barring an LT 31 touchdown season on a 14-2 team.

I was referring to you saying that NE is going to make a strong SB run, I think their D is going to hold them back.

P-L
09-02-2010, 01:01 PM
If Tom Brady improves over last season, an extra year removed from knee surgery, their defensive performance might not matter.

prock
09-02-2010, 01:05 PM
Ooooh, nice darkhorse pick. I like. I don't think he'll get the opportunity to toss the rock around as much as he did last year, but if they win the division and he's got numbers close to what he had last year, I think it's definitely a possibility.

Yeah, it was just me trying to be unique haha. In all honesty, it will probably one of the top 5 QBs: Rivers, Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. But I think Eli Manning is a legitimate sleeper. If he wins, I will rock that in my sig for eternity.

ThePudge
09-02-2010, 01:11 PM
Peyton Manning will win it even though there will be two or three more deserving candidates. Oh wait, this is 2010 not 2009...

Yea, because when Manning threw 33 Tds, 4500 yds, & won 14 games a year ago he should have probably lost to a guy who threw 34, 4388 yds, & won 13. Clearly the second guy was more deserving there. New Orleans' rushing offense ranked 6th, Indianapolis was dead last by a good margin. Indy's entire offense was Peyton Manning. When evaluating the MOST VALUABLE player, there's little doubt in my mind. Chris Johnson also did incredible things, but he did it for an average team, making him a prime candidate for Offensive Player of the Year, but not necessarily a top-flight MVP candidate.

A lot of people just hate on Peyton just to hate on Peyton.

bigbluedefense
09-02-2010, 01:14 PM
I wouldn't change that lineup unless the buzz on McCluster gets white hot and you're in a PPR league. The path is surprisingly clear for Spiller, someone has to get the carries.

Especially to start the season I would go with Smith and Floyd over Berrian, so with Rice out, Massoquoi not having a QB, and the rest being rookies/in an offense that ignores them, you're set.

Yeah this is a 14 team PPR league. I'm hoping my starting lineup is solid. My questionmarks are Matt Ryan, CJ Spiller, and Malcolm Floyd. If all 3 show up, I think my team is loaded.

I'm hoping McCluster is a sleeper. I took him late. Rice was the last round of the draft, I was like hell, why not. Im putting him on the IR spot and grabbing someone off the waiver wire.

I don't like my bench all that much though.

CC.SD
09-02-2010, 01:30 PM
Yeah this is a 14 team PPR league. I'm hoping my starting lineup is solid. My questionmarks are Matt Ryan, CJ Spiller, and Malcolm Floyd. If all 3 show up, I think my team is loaded.

I'm hoping McCluster is a sleeper. I took him late. Rice was the last round of the draft, I was like hell, why not. Im putting him on the IR spot and grabbing someone off the waiver wire.

I don't like my bench all that much though.

G-reg will get traded to a better offense.

Prowler
09-02-2010, 01:38 PM
Matt Schaub, his offense will roll all year and he'll have the rating and numbers. If his team makes the playoffs then he'll have some pretty good momentum too.

Mr.Regular
09-02-2010, 01:41 PM
http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/aaron-rodgers.jpg

Shiver
09-02-2010, 01:51 PM
I was referring to you saying that NE is going to make a strong SB run, I think their D is going to hold them back.

That wasn't me. I think their defense is a big "if" that could derail their Super Bowl aspirations.

If Tom Brady improves over last season, an extra year removed from knee surgery, their defensive performance might not matter.

Exactly what I think. There are about five offenses in the league that can keep up with them, at best. And the Colts, Texans, Packers, Chargers, and Saints have their own defensive issues to worry about.

Shane P. Hallam
09-02-2010, 01:52 PM
Aaron Rodgers or Tony Romo.

RagingColt
09-02-2010, 02:05 PM
http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/tom-brady-stetson-man.jpg


Not sure what is more disturbing, Tom Brady posing for a GQ-like picture or the Pee-Week Herman tat.


For the sake of the thread, I went with Rogers. If he plays like the way he did in blasting the Colts D in the pre season, it won't be a contest. He's got multiple pro-bowl level weapons to work with and can make a few plays with his feet.

M.O.T.H.
09-02-2010, 03:07 PM
O-Line scaring away potential Romo votes here? I wouldnt blame yah.

But if that line can hold up...Tony's got as good a shot as anyone. I have no confidence in the line right now, though.

San Diego Chicken
09-02-2010, 03:48 PM
Peyton Manning will win it even though there will be two or three more deserving candidates. Oh wait, this is 2010 not 2009...

Pretty much this. Manning just seems to win it by default every year now. i see no reason to bet against him again, even if some others might be more impressive statistically.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 03:49 PM
Peyton Manning will win it even though there will be two or three more deserving candidates. Oh wait, this is 2010 not 2009...

You have to be kidding me. I'll give you that Rivers might have deserved it in 2008, it probably should have been a split, but no one was close to as deserving as Manning last year.

San Diego Chicken
09-02-2010, 03:50 PM
You have to be kidding me. I'll give you that Rivers might have deserved it in 2008, it probably should have been a split, but no one was close to as deserving as Manning last year.

Brees? Favre? Rivers again? Johnson?

Shiver
09-02-2010, 03:50 PM
Drew Brees, whose team was 13-0, who broke the NFL record for completion percentage, who won the Super Bowl, would disagree.

Brett Favre, at the age of 40, becoming the only player to throw for 33 touchdowns and only 7 interceptions on an elite team would like a word in as well.

tjsunstein
09-02-2010, 03:52 PM
You have to be kidding me. I'll give you that Rivers might have deserved it in 2008, it probably should have been a split, but no one was close to as deserving as Manning last year.
Brett Favre
Chris Johnson
Drews Brees

Shiver
09-02-2010, 03:54 PM
"No one was close to as deserving" hahahahaha. This guy takes homerism to an art-form.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 03:55 PM
Favre and Brees both had top 10 rushing attacks backing them up, Manning had the worst in the league. Rivers had an argument again but the Colts did finish with the better record.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 03:55 PM
"No one was close to as deserving" hahahahaha. This guy takes homerism to an art-form.

I'm a 49er fan

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 03:58 PM
You have to be kidding me. I'll give you that Rivers might have deserved it in 2008, it probably should have been a split, but no one was close to as deserving as Manning last year.

Besides what other have said about Farve, and Brees, Johnson RUSHED FOR 2000 YARDS! How many Rbs have run for that and how many Qbs have thrown 4000?

Shiver
09-02-2010, 03:59 PM
Then I don't know what the **** your obsession with Manning is about. Are you a Vols fan? Just like his commercials? Is he your star Dynasty league player?

TitanHope
09-02-2010, 04:00 PM
I've been thinking it'll be Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers, but I think story lines are almost as important as individual success in these things (Except for Manning, who wins in no matter the circumstances apparently). But I think writers will be fapping if Rodgers beats Favre this season and wins the division. That'll carry him to the award. If he loses, then my odds are for Brees.


Just kidding! It'll be Peyton! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 04:01 PM
Then I don't know what the **** your obsession with Manning is about. Are you a Vols fan? Just like his commercials? Is he your star Dynasty league player?

Hes one of the kids all grown up now from this:

caeITRkDrtg

Shiver
09-02-2010, 04:02 PM
Hes one of the kids all grown up now from this:

caeITRkDrtg


There you go.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Besides what other have said about Farve, and Brees, Johnson RUSHED FOR 2000 YARDS! How many Rbs have run for that and how many Qbs have thrown 4000?

Johnson wasn't carrying his team to wins like Manning, the Titans did not start doing well until Young came in and the defense started playing better.

Then I don't know what the **** your obsession with Manning is about. Are you a Vols fan? Just like his commercials? Is he your star Dynasty league player?

None of that, though he does help me win my fantasy leagues every year, just a fan of the QB who I think is the best to ever play the game. That is including Joe Montana and Steve Young.

San Diego Chicken
09-02-2010, 04:06 PM
Homer alert, but I'm thinking if Rivers can duplicate his success of the last two years without McNeill and Jackson, and still lead the Chargers to 12-4/13-3, he has to be up there, right?

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 04:06 PM
Johnson wasn't carrying his team to wins like Manning, the Titans did not start doing well until Young came in and the defense started playing better.



None of that, though he does help me win my fantasy leagues every year, just a fan of the QB who I think is the best to ever play the game. That is including Joe Montana and Steve Young.

So wait, Manning carried his team to the superbowl but threw a pick six to lose it, and Brees carried his team to a superbowl win, so wouldnt by your logic Brees be MVP?

yourfavestoner
09-02-2010, 04:07 PM
Homer alert, but I'm thinking if Rivers can duplicate his success of the last two years without McNeill and Jackson, and still lead the Chargers to 12-4/13-3, he has to be up there, right?

Absolutely.

Everyone is down on the Chargers, but I sense quite possibly the biggest Ewing Theory season ever with Tomlinson gone in San Diego.

gpngc
09-02-2010, 04:07 PM
I will be picking the Chargers to win the Super Bowl (along the lines of the Tiki Barber theory + good team, great QB, good opportunity in a weak division) so I voted for Philip Rivers.

Peyton Manning, if you think about the term "valuable", deserves to win it most years, including last year, so I agree with Abaddon to an extent.

gpngc
09-02-2010, 04:07 PM
Absolutely.

Everyone is down on the Chargers, but I sense quite possibly the biggest Ewing Theory season ever with Tomlinson gone in San Diego.

That is just weird. We both posted the pretty much exact same thing at 5:07...

yourfavestoner
09-02-2010, 04:08 PM
That is just weird. We both posted the pretty much exact same thing at 5:07...

I think this pretty much guarantees it will happen haha.

Shiver
09-02-2010, 04:09 PM
None of that, though he does help me win my fantasy leagues every year, just a fan of the QB who I think is the best to ever play the game. That is including Joe Montana and Steve Young.


That is an overall career argument, which is fine, even if I disagree. That doesn't mean you can completely, utterly and without context demean what Drew Brees, Chris Johnson and Brett Favre accomplished last year. "Not even close" wtf.

wonderbredd24
09-02-2010, 04:09 PM
Drew Brees, short of falling on his face, will win it and it will be effectively a make up call for last year.

Manning winning it last year was a joke

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:10 PM
So wait, Manning carried his team to the superbowl but threw a pick six to lose it, and Brees carried his team to a superbowl win, so wouldnt by your logic Brees be MVP?

First of all the MVP is not awarded for a one game performance, no matter how important the game, and secondly what part of Brees have a top 10 running game while Manning had none don't you get? Manning is the most "valuable" player to his team in the league in that taking away him would make the biggest difference, more so than any other single player in the league.

San Diego Chicken
09-02-2010, 04:10 PM
I will be picking the Chargers to win the Super Bowl (along the lines of the Tiki Barber theory + good team, great QB, good opportunity in a weak division) so I voted for Philip Rivers.

Peyton Manning, if you think about the term "valuable", deserves to win it most years, including last year, so I agree with Abaddon to an extent.

I believe Manning is the best player in the game, but it was an odd sight to see him completely run away with the MVP award last year when several players statistically out-performed him.

Even Michael Jordan in his prime lost MVP's to Charles Barkley and Karl Malone.

Shiver
09-02-2010, 04:11 PM
So your saying those other MVP awards he shouldn't have won, because he had elite running games? Oh, he had Edgerrin James in 2003 and 2004! Shouldn't have won I suppose.

San Diego Chicken
09-02-2010, 04:11 PM
I think this pretty much guarantees it will happen haha.

One can only hope, but I'll trade Philip's MVP for a playoff win against the Jets or Pats for once.

yourfavestoner
09-02-2010, 04:13 PM
One can only hope, but I'll trade Philip's MVP for a playoff win against the Jets or Pats for once.

You'll probably end up playing one of them, but pray to the football gods you play the Colts in the AFC Championship. They can't beat the Chargers to save their life.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:14 PM
So your saying those other MVP awards he shouldn't have won, because he had elite running games? Oh, he had Edgerrin James in 2003 and 2004! Shouldn't have won I suppose.

2003: 19th
2004: 15th
2008: 31st
2009: 32nd

Rushing offense ranks for the Colts

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 04:15 PM
First of all the MVP is not awarded for a one game performance, no matter how important the game, and secondly what part of Brees have a top 10 running game while Manning had none don't you get? Manning is the most "valuable" player to his team in the league in that taking away him would make the biggest difference, more so than any other single player in the league.

When did I dispute the running game argument haha. God I love when people try to argue about player talent around Manning. Oh boo hoo, Manning didnt have a very good running game, but hes only played with first round talent since he got into the league, wahhh.

Like others have said, you saying it wasnt even close is just stupid, and yes one game matters, it can be the difference of a whole season, because 31 teams will say they did not accomplish their goal of winning a super bowl last year. Its the goal year in and year out, no one on the Colts says going into the season,"gee I hope Manning throws for 4000 yards and we get to the superbowl but not win!" So yes one game matters.

gpngc
09-02-2010, 04:20 PM
I wouldn't say there weren't other contenders, but Manning had a spectacular year and never lost a game. (good job Polian!)

Those other guys just had spectacular years. It really wasn't that close despite the amazing statistics of Brees and CJ2K. Stats don't tell the whole story although many times the MVP award is (incorrectly IMO) given to "guy with the best stats on a playoff team" example: Shaun Alexander over Steve Smith in 2005.

And again, if the question is who is MOST VALUABLE to his team - it was Manning 100%.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:20 PM
When did I dispute the running game argument haha. God I love when people try to argue about player talent around Manning. Oh boo hoo, Manning didnt have a very good running game, but hes only played with first round talent since he got into the league, wahhh.

I never said that you did dispute it, I was just pointing out that was why he deserved it more than Brees.

Like others have said, you saying it wasnt even close is just stupid, and yes one game matters, it can be the difference of a whole season, because 31 teams will say they did not accomplish their goal of winning a super bowl last year. Its the goal year in and year out, no one on the Colts says going into the season,"gee I hope Manning throws for 4000 yards and we get to the superbowl but not win!" So yes one game matters.

I guess we should just award the MVP to whoever wins Super Bowl MVP then, right? It doesn't matter than one player was more valuable for the other 18 games, all that matters is that someone else was for that 1 game.

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 04:24 PM
I never said that you did dispute it, I was just pointing out that was why he deserved it more than Brees.



I guess we should just award the MVP to whoever wins Super Bowl MVP then, right? It doesn't matter than one player was more valuable for the other 18 games, all that matters is that someone else was for that 1 game.

That player (Brees) was pretty close to being equally impressive as Manning and you ignoring that is what is driving your argument. Brees had an amazing season just as well.

wonderbredd24
09-02-2010, 04:24 PM
Brees' TD:INT ratio through the entire playoffs was 8:0 in addition to a 13-3 regular season record in addition to a Superbowl championship. Doesn't get more valuable than that.

And I think the Saints are in worse shape than the Colts if both players are taken off their teams. I'll take the Colts weapons over the Saints all day

Shiver
09-02-2010, 04:25 PM
That player was pretty close to being equally impressive as Manning and you ignoring that is what is driving your argument. Brees had an amazing season just as well.


But he had teh running game! Pierre Thomas, Mike Bell and Reggie Bush! The best thing since Mercury Morris, Jim Kiick and Larry Csonka.

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 04:28 PM
But he had teh running game! Pierre Thomas, Mike Bell and Reggie Bush! The best thing since Mercury Morris, Jim Kiick and Larry Csonka.

ReggIE BUSh is like ta best inside runner in teh NFL! zZommg!

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:38 PM
That player (Brees) was pretty close to being equally impressive as Manning and you ignoring that is what is driving your argument. Brees had an amazing season just as well.

He was almost as impressive but he had the better supporting cast and if you took him away the Saints would not have suffered as much as the Colts, which is why Manning was more "valuable".

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 04:42 PM
He was almost as impressive but he had the better supporting cast and if you took him away the Saints would not have suffered as much as the Colts, which is why Manning was more "valuable".

Ok I'm not going to get into an argument with a troll over Mannings level of talent and supporting cast.

yourfavestoner
09-02-2010, 04:44 PM
He was almost as impressive but he had the better supporting cast and if you took him away the Saints would not have suffered as much as the Colts, which is why Manning was more "valuable".

I really have no idea how you can say that when the teams are basically constructed exactly the same.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:47 PM
Ok I'm not going to get into an argument with a troll over Mannings level of talent and supporting cast.

I really have no idea how you can say that when the teams are basically constructed exactly the same.

Except that the Saints had a top 10 running attack in all categories and the much better offensive line.

wonderbredd24
09-02-2010, 04:49 PM
Since Peyton Manning basically invented the quarterback position and evidently no one has ever played it better, why the **** do the Colts keep investing top picks on offense and specifically receivers?

Build an offensive line and just spend the rest of the picks on defense, right? Right?

Outside of defensive ends, the Colts defense is built almost entirely on the cheap. Bill Polian should be fired.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:52 PM
Since Peyton Manning basically invented the quarterback position and evidently no one has ever played it better, why the **** do the Colts keep investing top picks on offense and specifically receivers?

Build an offensive line and just spend the rest of the picks on defense, right? Right?

Outside of defensive ends, the Colts defense is built almost entirely on the cheap. Bill Polian should be fired.

70% of the Colts 1-3 round draft picks have been defensive players since 2005.

yourfavestoner
09-02-2010, 04:53 PM
Except that the Saints had a top 10 running attack in all categories and the much better offensive line.

Manning won an MVP when his line was better and he had Edgerrin James. And Brees' was a monster the past two years when their offensive line was terrible and with Reggie Bush as their primary runner.

I understand, though. Peyton Manning is allowed to win MVP's with elite talent around him (Edgerrin James, Tarik Glenn, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark), but other people can't just because they have a good running game.

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 04:53 PM
70% of the Colts 1-3 round draft picks have been defensive players since 2005.

And only two 1st rounders were on D.

Nalej
09-02-2010, 04:56 PM
All Day

Favre regresses, AD stops fumbling and becomes even better... possible?!

TitleTown088
09-02-2010, 04:57 PM
Another opportunity to use this wonderful pic..

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8839/arodcowboy.jpg

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 04:57 PM
Manning won an MVP when his line was better and he had Edgerrin James. And Brees' was a monster the past two years when their offensive line was terrible and with Reggie Bush as their primary runner.

I understand, though. Peyton Manning is allowed to win MVP's with elite talent around him (Edgerrin James, Tarik Glenn, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark), but other people can't just because they have a good running game.

I believe I already posted this here but

2003: 19th
2004: 15th
2008: 31st
2009: 32nd

Colts running game ranks during Manning's MVP years. The Saints was 6th last year

And only two 1st rounders were on D.

2/5 and 1st round picks aren't the only talent. The difference in talent between the end of the 1st round and the entire 2nd and 3rd rounds is not much different, imo

wonderbredd24
09-02-2010, 05:00 PM
And only two 1st rounders were on D.

And no offensive linemen in the 1st round either, so when they go 1st round and offense, it's a skill player

I think Tarik Glenn was the last 1st round pick the Colts have used on an offensive lineman and that was 1997.

Harrison in '98
James in '99
Wayne in '01
Clark in '03
Addai in '06
Gonzalez in '07
Brown in '09

That's 3 running backs and 3 receivers and a tight end in an 11 year period. Holy offensive skill positions, Batman.

Seamus2602
09-02-2010, 05:02 PM
It will probably be one of the top Quarterbacks, probably the top Quarterback on the top team. So if its the Colts then MVP will be Manning. If its the Patriots it will be Brady. If its the Chargers then it will be Rivers. If its the Packers then it will be Rodgers. If its the Packers it will be Rodgers and if its the Vikings it will he who will keep playing until he has a ******* heart attack.

For those bitching about Manning getting it last year I want to remind you of two things.

Firstly the MVP award is given before the Superbowl. So to say that Brees should win MVP for something that he did (or more importantly something Manning did) after the MVP has already been awarded is just stupid. How ridicolous of the AP for not being able to tell the future. You are basically saying that they should look into their crystal balls and see that Manning was going to throw a pick 6 in the Superbowl.

Secondly, Chris Johnson wasn't even the MVP of the Tennessee Titans, never mind of the National Football League. He was .500 last year. Vince Young was .800.

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 05:04 PM
It will probably be one of the top Quarterbacks, probably the top Quarterback on the top team. So if its the Colts then MVP will be Manning. If its the Patriots it will be Brady. If its the Chargers then it will be Rivers. If its the Packers then it will be Rodgers. If its the Packers it will be Rodgers and if its the Vikings it will he who will keep playing until he has a ******* heart attack.

For those bitching about Manning getting it last year I want to remind you of two things.

Firstly the MVP award is given before the Superbowl. So to say that Brees should win MVP for something that he did (or more importantly something Manning did) after the MVP has already been awarded is just stupid. How ridicolous of the AP for not being able to tell the future. You are basically saying that they should look into their crystal balls and see that Manning was going to throw a pick 6 in the Superbowl.

Secondly, Chris Johnson wasn't even the MVP of the Tennessee Titans, never mind of the National Football League. He was .500 last year. Vince Young was .800.

Relax, I was saying that strictly because of the trolls original statement not because it should of happened, obviously no one is stupid enough to think the AP can see the future.

yourfavestoner
09-02-2010, 05:07 PM
I believe I already posted this here but

2003: 19th
2004: 15th
2008: 31st
2009: 32nd

Colts running game ranks during Manning's MVP years. The Saints was 6th last year



2/5 and 1st round picks aren't the only talent. The difference in talent between the end of the 1st round and the entire 2nd and 3rd rounds is not much different, imo

The Saints had a nice rushing attack last year, but it's not something that's carrying the team to a .500 record without Brees.

And I still fail to see how that somehow makes Brees less valuable to his team than Manning. According to you, Peyton is the sole reason for the Colts success; he makes every position on his team better, and every other player in the NFL is a success due to the talent around them.

Oh yeah, and Peyton is just really unlucky in the playoffs and poor Peyton just gets the short end of the stick every year and is completely blameless for his team's failures.

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 05:08 PM
The Saints had a nice rushing attack last year, but it's not something that's carrying the team to a .500 record without Brees.

And I still fail to see how that somehow makes Brees less valuable to his team than Manning. According to you, Peyton is the sole reason for the Colts success; he makes every position on his team better, and every other player in the NFL is a success due to the talent around them.

Oh yeah, and Peyton is just really unlucky in the playoffs and poor Peyton just gets the short end of the stick every year and is completely blameless for his team's failures.

Didnt you get the memo?

prock
09-02-2010, 05:10 PM
I thought Favre or Brees should have been MVP last year, but I had no qualms with Manning either. Manning is so valuable to his team, but hey, so is every good ******* quarterback. But to say no one was even close is not only ignorant, but flat out stupid. But this guy obviously has a constant raging erection for Peyton no matter what, as he has proven in a few threads, so arguing with him is pointless and will get no where because his head is too far up Peyton's ass to see anything from a neutral standpoint.

abaddon41_80
09-02-2010, 06:50 PM
The Saints had a nice rushing attack last year, but it's not something that's carrying the team to a .500 record without Brees.

And I still fail to see how that somehow makes Brees less valuable to his team than Manning. According to you, Peyton is the sole reason for the Colts success; he makes every position on his team better, and every other player in the NFL is a success due to the talent around them.

Oh yeah, and Peyton is just really unlucky in the playoffs and poor Peyton just gets the short end of the stick every year and is completely blameless for his team's failures.

It makes Brees slightly less valuable because the team around him was better and the stats show that, it isn't that hard to understand. I never said anything resembling the other things you said. Manning does make the team around him better but so does Brees, and to a lesser extent guys like Brady, Rivers, and Rodgers, but he isn't the sole reason why the Colts are good. I'll bold this so you understand my point, and once again all the evidence points to this. He was the most "valuable" player to his team in the league last year, unquestionably.

I thought Favre or Brees should have been MVP last year, but I had no qualms with Manning either. Manning is so valuable to his team, but hey, so is every good ******* quarterback. But to say no one was even close is not only ignorant, but flat out stupid. But this guy obviously has a constant raging erection for Peyton no matter what, as he has proven in a few threads, so arguing with him is pointless and will get no where because his head is too far up Peyton's ass to see anything from a neutral standpoint.

Way to go, you resorted to flaming. It is two threads and both are discussing the best quarterbacks so I have a "constant raging erection" for Manning because I argue in favor of him? I guess some other people have the same for Brady, Brees, and Rivers or whatever but I am obviously the troll because I have given nothing but facts and numbers to support my point of view? I can see now that there is really no point in arguing with you.

bored of education
09-02-2010, 06:50 PM
Matt Cassel. I am not even joking.

Saints-Tigers
09-02-2010, 06:52 PM
If you look at who they played, and how they played them, it was clear the Saints were better than Indy.

That said, I felt like we had a better running game, more options in the passing game, and a better defense, and Indy still won one more game over us. Credit has to go somewhere.

If the Saints are still elite this year, you can almost bank on Brees getting a retroactive MVP.

LonghornsLegend
09-02-2010, 06:57 PM
Secondly, Chris Johnson wasn't even the MVP of the Tennessee Titans, never mind of the National Football League. He was .500 last year. Vince Young was .800.

I lol'd.


I'm still amazed at some of the things I read around here sometimes.

Jvig43
09-02-2010, 07:01 PM
I lol'd.


I'm still amazed at some of the things I read around here sometimes.

I tried to just stick to me defending my old post to even start with that. apparently rushing for 2,000 yards just isnt very impressive today

GB12
09-02-2010, 07:13 PM
2008

Rodgers
63.6%| 4038 Passing Yards| 28 PTD| 13 INT| 93.8 RTG| 207 Rushing Yards| 4 RTD| 4245 Total Yards| 32 TTD
Manning
66.8%| 4002 Passing Yards| 27 PTD| 12 INT| 95.0 RTG| 21 Rushing Yards| 1 RTD| 4023 Total Yards| 28 TTD

Manning won MVP


2009

Rodgers
64.7%| 4434 Passing Yards| 30 PTD| 7 INT| 103.2 RTG| 316 Rushing Yards| 5 RTD| 4750 Total Yards| 35 TTD
Manning
68.8%| 4500 Passing Yards| 33 PTD| 16 INT| 99.9 RTG| -13 Rushing Yards| 0 RTD| 4487 Total Yards| 33 TTD

Manning won MVP

I'm not saying Rodgers should have won MVP the past two years or anything, but he's put up numbers that are better or at least comparable to the guy that did win. He definitely can produce enough to win one and this might be the year.

J-Mike88
09-02-2010, 10:35 PM
2008

Rodgers
63.6%| 4038 Passing Yards| 28 PTD| 13 INT| 93.8 RTG| 207 Rushing Yards| 4 RTD| 4245 Total Yards| 32 TTD
Manning
66.8%| 4002 Passing Yards| 27 PTD| 12 INT| 95.0 RTG| 21 Rushing Yards| 1 RTD| 4023 Total Yards| 28 TTD

Manning won MVP


2009

Rodgers
64.7%| 4434 Passing Yards| 30 PTD| 7 INT| 103.2 RTG| 316 Rushing Yards| 5 RTD| 4750 Total Yards| 35 TTD
Manning
68.8%| 4500 Passing Yards| 33 PTD| 16 INT| 99.9 RTG| -13 Rushing Yards| 0 RTD| 4487 Total Yards| 33 TTD

Manning won MVP

I'm not saying Rodgers should have won MVP the past two years or anything, but he's put up numbers that are better or at least comparable to the guy that did win. He definitely can produce enough to win one and this might be the year.
Don't forget. The stats are accurate. And Rodgers did it often behind a sieve of an OL, and he put up those numbers playing in Green Bay climate, while Manning gets to play his home games in perfect elements.

Brodeur
09-02-2010, 11:19 PM
Don't forget. The stats are accurate. And Rodgers did it often behind a sieve of an OL, and he put up those numbers playing in Green Bay climate, while Manning gets to play his home games in perfect elements.

Manning's OL isn't very good either, but he actually can get rid of the ball fast.

nepg
09-02-2010, 11:20 PM
I'm going to roll with Brady. He's underratedly on it this year, and he'll have the second outside receiver that he didn't have last year in Brandon Tate. It's quite possible that the Pats' offense this year is better than their 2007 team.

Seamus2602
09-03-2010, 03:45 AM
I tried to just stick to me defending my old post to even start with that. apparently rushing for 2,000 yards just isnt very impressive today

It is impressive. He won the Offensive Player of the Year Award. It just wasn't as valuable in the grand scheme of things as the 4,500 yards that Manning put up. Johnson was unable to get his team to win.

Draft King
09-03-2010, 09:07 AM
It is impressive. He won the Offensive Player of the Year Award. It just wasn't as valuable in the grand scheme of things as the 4,500 yards that Manning put up. Johnson was unable to get his team to win.

Pretty sure Matt Ryan won OROY.

J-Mike88
09-03-2010, 09:08 AM
Manning's OL isn't very good either, but he actually can get rid of the ball fast.He sure can.

Rodgers is getting better there. Remember, he just finished his 2nd season playing out there. He's played one season longer than Sanchez and Stafford have.

Also, Manning threw 20 Ints per year over his first 5 seasons starting (100 ints after 5 seasons). Many of those ints were to beat the sack and save his body.

Seamus2602
09-03-2010, 09:09 AM
Pretty sure Matt Ryan won OROY.

I'm pretty sure that I said Chris Johnson won Offensive Player of the Year, not Rookie.

Draft King
09-03-2010, 09:15 AM
I'm pretty sure that I said Chris Johnson won Offensive Player of the Year, not Rookie.

I fail.....

LonghornsLegend
09-03-2010, 12:02 PM
It is impressive. He won the Offensive Player of the Year Award. It just wasn't as valuable in the grand scheme of things as the 4,500 yards that Manning put up. Johnson was unable to get his team to win.

He's a RB. You really want to hold him accountable for the entire team like you would a QB? And since you just used stats in this post, Chris Johnson running for 2k+ yards on that team is FAR more impressive then Peyton throwing for 4500 yards.

Seamus2602
09-03-2010, 12:10 PM
And since you just used stats in this post, Chris Johnson running for 2k+ yards on that team is FAR more impressive then Peyton throwing for 4500 yards.

What Chris Johnson running for 2,000 yards, with a team that doesn't throw the ball and has one of the best Offensive Lines in football?

You really want to hold him accountable for the entire team like you would a QB?

Most Valuable Player. The player who is of most value to his team. Manning is more valuable to the Colts than Johnson is to the Titans. Johnson had a better offensive year than Manning. The net result is that Manning won MVP and Johnson won OPOTY.

A Perfect Score
09-03-2010, 12:49 PM
Chris Johnson absolutely should of won MVP. He was that entire team...he had no passing attack to take the pressure off and he had one of the best seasons ever by a RB. He didnt just run for 2000 yards...he broke the NFL yards from scrimmage record and had a 5.6 YPC average, which is better then Jamal Lewis when he ran for 2000 in '03.

nepg
09-03-2010, 06:43 PM
He sure can.

Rodgers is getting better there. Remember, he just finished his 2nd season playing out there. He's played one season longer than Sanchez and Stafford have.

Also, Manning threw 20 Ints per year over his first 5 seasons starting (100 ints after 5 seasons). Many of those ints were to beat the sack and save his body.

The Indy offense is designed to get the ball out quickly. Plays take a bit longer to develop for Green Bay. Completely different styles of passing attacks.

Splat
09-03-2010, 07:00 PM
Matt Cassel. I am not even joking.

I think the name you were looking for is Andy Studebaker...

tjsunstein
09-03-2010, 08:16 PM
Too much Aaron Rodgers love now. I liked it better when he wasn't this popular.

Saints-Tigers
09-03-2010, 08:54 PM
Chris Johnson absolutely should of won MVP. He was that entire team...he had no passing attack to take the pressure off and he had one of the best seasons ever by a RB. He didnt just run for 2000 yards...he broke the NFL yards from scrimmage record and had a 5.6 YPC average, which is better then Jamal Lewis when he ran for 2000 in '03.


Chris Johnson was the entire team, when they weren't winning anything.

5000 yards passing is rarer than 2000 yards rushing, but Drew Brees didn't get it because the Saints were 8-8.

Honestly, I know it's shallow, but it looks bad when your team is in the shitter, and a certain player comes in and everything turns around.

Winning is a big part of the MVP, that's why Peyton won the last two years.

katnip
09-03-2010, 09:04 PM
Picked Adrian Peterson. Just cause he's my favorite RB.

Also I think if they all stay healthy. I think the 5 top vote getters will be, AP, Rodgers, Peyton, Chris Johnson, & Drew Brees. Pretty much

CC.SD
09-03-2010, 09:52 PM
He's a RB. You really want to hold him accountable for the entire team like you would a QB? And since you just used stats in this post, Chris Johnson running for 2k+ yards on that team is FAR more impressive then Peyton throwing for 4500 yards.

What Chris Johnson running for 2,000 yards, with a team that doesn't throw the ball and has one of the best Offensive Lines in football?


Most Valuable Player. The player who is of most value to his team. Manning is more valuable to the Colts than Johnson is to the Titans. Johnson had a better offensive year than Manning. The net result is that Manning won MVP and Johnson won OPOTY.

Wow. seriously? yeah 2000 yards is pretty easy to get I see, that's all you need. This is so horrible.

J-Mike88
09-03-2010, 11:10 PM
The Indy offense is designed to get the ball out quickly. Plays take a bit longer to develop for Green Bay. Completely different styles of passing attacks.If true, then Rodgers should get sacked more than Manning. Has nothing to do with a crappy pair of OT's last year weeks 1-8?

nepg
09-03-2010, 11:16 PM
Oh, it has a lot to do with it. Just means that the quality of OL matters more for Rodgers than for Manning.