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View Full Version : Allen Bailey: 3-4 OLB?


bergo23
09-06-2010, 07:40 AM
It seems as if his athleticism, even though he is bigger than the "prototype" might make him a monster edge rusher in a 3-4?

I am mostly looking for legit arguments why he couldn't be.

Razor
09-06-2010, 07:53 AM
Short answer: No.

He's a great athlete, but just not "that kind of athlete". He lacks speed and coverage skills imo. Could he be? Maybe, but it won't be a natural fit. His best fit is as a 5-tech in a 3-4 similar to what Dallas, GB or San Diego runs imo.

Day One Pick
09-06-2010, 07:58 AM
Excellent 3-4 DE. He is one of the more versatile defensive prospects in this class. Maybe the most versatile. I could see him at DE, DT, or 3-4 DE. It's probably not a huge stretch to ask if he could play OLB, but I think he's as close to being a 3-4 ILB as he is a 3-4 OLB. One of the best 3-4 ILB's I've ever seen was former Steeler Levon Kirkland who was a stout 6-1, 270ish. He was basically the same build as Bailey, just a little shorter.

Saints-Tigers
09-06-2010, 08:02 AM
Would be hard, he'd be primarily pass rushing on 99% of plays, which would more or less make it a 4 man front anyway, so you might as well play 4-3, haha.

I really really like him, and I hope he drops to 32 to the Saints.

AntoinCD
09-06-2010, 08:25 AM
I think he could play the odd snap there but I definitely wouldnt draft him to play OLB. He has the versatility that would be amazing in a zone blitz team. He could play DE/DT drop into coverage a little, a bit like Haloti Ngata does at times, and stand up and rush like the Patriots used to do when they played with no down linemen at times.

However overall his best fit will be in attacking 30 front where he is asked to be a one gap penetrator

Ozzy
09-06-2010, 09:00 AM
Razor He's a great athlete, but just not "that kind of athlete". He lacks speed and coverage skills imo. Could he be? Maybe, but it won't be a natural fit. His best fit is as a 5-tech in a 3-4 similar to what Dallas, GB or San Diego runs imo.Completely agree, he is just simply not that fast in the open field. Everyone says he is this all world athlete, well fact he is he not that dang fast. Sadly there are times in games where he just simply does nothing and cannot get off his block, hopefully he has a good year but clearly he is a workout warrior that has yet to show that athletic potential on the field in the game.

SenorGato
09-06-2010, 12:58 PM
This thread is why I think he's this draft's Vernon Gholston.

Hurricanes25
09-06-2010, 01:02 PM
He came into Miami as a linebacker so the possibility is always there. IMO, his bets fit will be at DE in the 34 or either LE or UT in the 4-3.

I really hope Rex Ryan falls in love with his versatility. I want him to be a jet so bad.

SwagU
09-06-2010, 01:47 PM
This thread is why I think he's this draft's Vernon Gholston.

Main reason why he will not be another Gholston is because he does not give up on plays, and has a good work ethic. In terms of 34 OLB I think he has enough athleticism to do so, but is a much better pass rusher from the line IMO. I could definitely see the Jets drafting him, and moving him around at times from DE to OLB.

villagewarrior
09-06-2010, 01:53 PM
From what I've seen of him I haven't really seen much explosiveness out of him. That will be an issue in the league. Am I off base or is anyone else seeing what I am?

descendency
09-06-2010, 02:26 PM
When he shows a first step, I'll care about him again.

From what I've seen of him I haven't really seen much explosiveness out of him. That will be an issue in the league. Am I off base or is anyone else seeing what I am?

You're dead-on. He gets away with it in college because he's strong. He can't do that in the pros though. He desperately needs to get out of his stance and into attack mode a lot faster.

katnip
09-06-2010, 07:05 PM
He came into Miami as a linebacker so the possibility is always there. IMO, his bets fit will be at DE in the 34 or either LE or UT in the 4-3.

I really hope Rex Ryan falls in love with his versatility. I want him to be a jet so bad.

I hope for this too

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-06-2010, 07:15 PM
I'd love to see him in a 4-3. He's a great prospect for either system, and IMO does have the versatility to play be moved around the front 7 in a 3-4(not as a full time OLB though), but I think he can be like Justin Tuck in a 4-3. Have him play LE most of the time and move him inside for passing situations. Can be a definite beast.

K Train
09-06-2010, 09:22 PM
no hes too stiff imo, MAYBE he could pull off a woodley like conversion but i like him as a LDE in a 34....hes built like a gigantic LB, but hes not one in the pros imo

BigJohn98
09-07-2010, 11:38 AM
I've never understood the hype with Bailey.

K Train
09-07-2010, 11:50 AM
I've never understood the hype with Bailey.

the hype might stem from the prototypical size, unreal strength, great athleticism, and positional versatility

BigJohn98
09-07-2010, 12:32 PM
the hype might stem from the prototypical size, unreal strength, great athleticism, and positional versatility

Yeah, I hear/read that all the time from Miami fans, but I just don't see anything in the games.

K Train
09-07-2010, 12:35 PM
production is certainly a cause for concern, but its his size and raw ability that gets all the hype. potential is there, so its not really hard to believe hee gets hyped up a little. as a project i like him alot

Hurricanes25
09-07-2010, 03:01 PM
production is certainly a cause for concern,

He had 7 sacks last year. That's pretty damn good considering he mostly played DT.

draftguru151
09-07-2010, 03:02 PM
Yeah, I hear/read that all the time from Miami fans, but I just don't see anything in the games.

You don't remember him driving your OL back every play last year?

K Train
09-07-2010, 04:26 PM
He had 7 sacks last year. That's pretty damn good considering he mostly played DT.

that is pretty good, he just lacks explosion that you would normally associate with this kind of prospect

Cicero
09-07-2010, 08:08 PM
You don't remember him driving your OL back every play last year?

LOL. Bailey constantly draws double teams too.

BigJohn98
09-07-2010, 09:33 PM
You don't remember him driving your OL back every play last year?

I try not to remember that game.

SenorGato
09-07-2010, 11:24 PM
Main reason why he will not be another Gholston is because he does not give up on plays, and has a good work ethic. In terms of 34 OLB I think he has enough athleticism to do so, but is a much better pass rusher from the line IMO. I could definitely see the Jets drafting him, and moving him around at times from DE to OLB.

He's not a 3-4 OLB prospect. He's bigger than Gholston was in the first place...I call him this draft's Gholston because he is significantly more athlete than football player.

A Perfect Score
09-08-2010, 12:23 AM
Bailey isn't an overly adept pass rusher, thats the thing. He doesn't have the explosion expected from an OLB in a 3-4 and he doesn't use his hands particularly well to disengage blockers. Yes, he's big and he's strong and he's highly athletic, and he does look more like a linebacker then a defensive tackle but when it all comes down to it, I don't think he's best suited for that role. If I'm being honest, I don't think he's really suited for a role as a 5 tech either. I think his best pro position would be one similar to what Justin Tuck does for the Giants...line him up as a 4-3 LDE on running downs and kick him inside to the 3 tech on passing downs.

RaiderNation
09-08-2010, 12:40 AM
I dont think it would work.

As a UT in a 4-3 on the other hand, or a 4-3 DE is some schemes he could be an animal. Like how LaMarr Houston is being used with the Raiders.

no bare feet
09-08-2010, 07:59 AM
Bailey's best fit will be int the 4-3 where he can play anywhere along the line, he also could have a fit in the 3-4 as the 5 tech. No way is he a 3-4 OLB.

LonghornsLegend
09-08-2010, 11:41 AM
He's certainly got his flaws obviously, which is why he's not in the same class as Cameron Heyward as a 3-4 DE prospect, but the upside and athleticism is there to make him a very good 1st round prospect. I really want to see Dallas give him a hard look with Spears moving on, he could be our version of Chris Canty and not be expected to just plug up holes but actually generate pressure on passing downs which Spears and Igor do not do at all.


We actually had that with Canty and I want to get back to that, he's an ideal prospect for what were trying to run with our D-line.

tjsunstein
09-08-2010, 12:08 PM
I can't see him at any other position where his hand isn't on the ground. He's too valuable down on the line. Whether it's 3-4 DE or 4-3 DE will obviously be dictated by the team he's drafted by. As said earlier, he could bounce inside too and be used as a DT on passing downs.

rockio42
09-08-2010, 03:38 PM
Hes big and strong enough to play 3-4 DE and athletic and quick enough to play 3-4 OLB...sounds like a great combination in a 4-3 DE. Just saying.

Aloysius
09-08-2010, 04:29 PM
I think his best spot is 4-3 DT. He's definitely too stiff in the hips to play 3-4 OLB, and he's not a dynamic rusher off the edge.

Because he doesn't use his hands well, Bailey will use his brute strength to push back an offensive tackle but then struggle to disengage in time to get the sack. And he doesn't possess the elite explosiveness to beat good OTs around the edge.

CC.SD
09-08-2010, 05:05 PM
He's closer to DT than OLB for sure.

tjsunstein
09-08-2010, 05:18 PM
Any team would be crazy to waste him at OLB. I think there's a million to one chance he plays OLB. And that's only because I still have no idea what Al Davis is thinking these days.

CC.SD
09-08-2010, 05:25 PM
Any team would be crazy to waste him at OLB. I think there's a million to one chance he plays OLB. And that's only because I still have no idea what Al Davis is thinking these days.

well in all honesty Al is probably thinking about how consuming the blood of the innocent extends his grip on life at the cost of his ever dwindling humanity.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-08-2010, 08:19 PM
I understand where this question comes from, but even for all of Bailey's athleticism, he doesn't show 34 OLB skills either.

I'm not sure what skills he displays, to be honest. He's not an edge rusher, but he's definitely not very good at playing a lane or holding his ground against a double team. That would seem to take 5-tech out of the running. 3-tech is a possibility, but I don't see much interior pass rushing skill or the ability to use his hands that would suggest he's much of a prospect there either. Maybe I could see a 43 LE where he'd have to contain the edge without have to be too precise, but that's kind of unambitious for a guy as athletic as him.

I'm still not sure where I'd want Bailey. I'm just as inclined to say 34 ILB as I am 43 DT.

cajuncorey
09-08-2010, 09:09 PM
Im tellin u hes a true 3 technique... hes like tommy harris on steroids!

tjsunstein
09-08-2010, 09:22 PM
Im tellin u hes a true 3 technique... hes like tommy harris on steroids!
Well, I mean, if you say so...

Rosebud
09-09-2010, 01:45 AM
Bailey really needs a lot of work but I like that I've seen him bust his ass on plays. He seems to have a good motor with that great strength and natural agility for a lineman. IMO he's a 4-3 DT who'll fall in this draft because he's raw but one of the later picking playoff teams will pick him and take advantage of all of that upside. He'd be a great rotational DT on a team like the vikings or giants who are still re-inforcing their DT position for the long term but have talented starters in place.

JHL6719
09-09-2010, 02:25 AM
I understand where this question comes from, but even for all of Bailey's athleticism, he doesn't show 34 OLB skills either.

I'm not sure what skills he displays, to be honest. He's not an edge rusher, but he's definitely not very good at playing a lane or holding his ground against a double team. That would seem to take 5-tech out of the running. 3-tech is a possibility, but I don't see much interior pass rushing skill or the ability to use his hands that would suggest he's much of a prospect there either. Maybe I could see a 43 LE where he'd have to contain the edge without have to be too precise, but that's kind of unambitious for a guy as athletic as him.

I'm still not sure where I'd want Bailey. I'm just as inclined to say 34 ILB as I am 43 DT.


Precisely my thoughts.... minus the ILB part.


I'd like to add one more thing and have people comment... He looks like he's too big up top and his lower body looks underdeveloped....

His body looks like you took a big screen TV and set it on top of two 2X4's....

He looks like SpongeBob in pads....

K Train
09-09-2010, 11:45 AM
i remember someone said on here a while back that he was a Dlineman that was built like a gigantic LB, i really like that description.

draftguru151
09-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Precisely my thoughts.... minus the ILB part.


I'd like to add one more thing and have people comment... He looks like he's too big up top and his lower body looks underdeveloped....

His body looks like you took a big screen TV and set it on top of two 2X4's....

He looks like SpongeBob in pads....

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5151/baileyx.png

Yea his legs are just as huge as his upper body.

Bailey up to this point has been overhyped because of his insane athleticism (and his awesome back story). So far he's shown flashes on the field but hasn't had the technique to be consistent because the old DL coach at Miami was awful. The overall talent level on the DL is a lot better than last year and the technique with the new DL coach is night and day between last year. His two biggest issues have been disengaging from blockers and quickness off the snap. He disengaged guys well last week but he wasn't getting off the ball well still. It's not explosions so much as it is snap anticipation. At this point he reminds me of Kendall Langford, and 3-4 DE is his best position. Depending on how he does this season though I think he'll be a better 4-3 end.

JHL6719
09-09-2010, 03:40 PM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5151/baileyx.png

Yea his legs are just as huge as his upper body.

Bailey up to this point has been overhyped because of his insane athleticism (and his awesome back story). So far he's shown flashes on the field but hasn't had the technique to be consistent because the old DL coach at Miami was awful. The overall talent level on the DL is a lot better than last year and the technique with the new DL coach is night and day between last year. His two biggest issues have been disengaging from blockers and quickness off the snap. He disengaged guys well last week but he wasn't getting off the ball well still. It's not explosions so much as it is snap anticipation. At this point he reminds me of Kendall Langford, and 3-4 DE is his best position. Depending on how he does this season though I think he'll be a better 4-3 end.


His legs look ok in that pic, but his butt/hips still looks kinda narrow... doesn't have quite the "bubble" (to use a scouting term) that you would look for in a guy that you ideally like to anchor and play 2-gaps...

Brandon Graham was also kinda slow off the snap for being such a beast... obviously Bailey doesn't have the same tools as Graham... they're different type players.

draftguru151
09-09-2010, 03:49 PM
Ah, guess I misunderstood what you meant, yea his hips are kinda narrow, I really don't think he'll gain much more weight (even fat) which is why I think he ends up at DE in a 4-3.

SenorGato
09-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Ah, guess I misunderstood what you meant, yea his hips are kinda narrow, I really don't think he'll gain much more weight (even fat) which is why I think he ends up at DE in a 4-3.

The more I think about it the more I hope this becomes his situation.

Either way, he's the kind of guy who's going to suck for a couple years in the league...IMO....the ultra small town in the middle of nowhere upbringing to the general rawness of his game are red flags to me. I really hope someone that isn't the Jets takes the gamble on him.