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Shiver
09-13-2010, 09:36 PM
Might as well create it now and update throughout the season:

Matt Ryan

27/44 252 yards, 1 INT

Joe Flacco

20/38 248 yards, 1 INT

Both had tough, tough match-ups on the road against elite pass defenses.

Here is the key difference, Atlanta Falcons fans, being supremely negative, will constantly whine about Ryan and how awful he is. I have a feeling Ravens fans have a different appreciation of their franchise QB.

Babylon
09-13-2010, 09:40 PM
At this point i think the Jets defense is better so i'll go with Flacco, he does have better weapons though i will add.

coordinator0
09-13-2010, 09:43 PM
At this point i think the Jets defense is better so i'll go with Flacco, he does have better weapons though i will add.

I don't think I'll ever get used to seeing AND agreeing with this.

A Perfect Score
09-13-2010, 09:45 PM
Roddy White is a beast. Ill still take Matt Ryan if Im starting a brand new franchise tomorrow though, and thats coming from a Ravens fan.

J-Mike88
09-13-2010, 09:49 PM
Roddy White is a beast. Ill still take Matt Ryan if Im starting a brand new franchise tomorrow though, and thats coming from a Ravens fan.
Exactly this.
And Ray Rice is great, so is a healthy Michael Turner.
Roddy White is very underrated. Good call.
But Boldin is a beast.

A Perfect Score
09-13-2010, 09:53 PM
Indeed. I wasn't trying to say that Ryan has better weapons by any means, as the Ravens certainly have more diverse receivers and a far better oline, but I do think Roddy White is underrated and Matt Ryan is still going to be a hell of a QB in this league.

Brent
09-13-2010, 09:55 PM
I would gladly have either.

Babylon
09-13-2010, 09:58 PM
I don't think I'll ever get used to seeing AND agreeing with this.

I was really impressed with Anquan Boldin, what a pro. Let's hope for their sake that Todd Heap can stay healthy.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
09-13-2010, 09:58 PM
Matty Ice received so much more praise after his rookie season. Along with a higher draft status i can see why people are hard on him.

Draft King
09-13-2010, 10:01 PM
The Falcons fans on this site were completely throwing Matt Ryan under the bus after the Steelers game, truth is the O-Line sucked and Turner sucked. We had no threat of play-action pass, and the Steelers knew we pretty much had to throw to either Gonzalez or White every play. Matt Ryan only had a couple bad throws the entire game. Troy Polamalu made a ridiculous interception on the Roddy White comeback.

J-Mike88
09-13-2010, 10:04 PM
The Falcons fans on this site were completely throwing Matt Ryan under the bus after the Steelers game, truth is the O-Line sucked and Turner sucked. We had no threat of play-action pass, and the Steelers knew we pretty much had to throw to either Gonzalez or White every play. Matt Ryan only had a couple bad throws the entire game. Troy Polamalu made a ridiculous interception on the Roddy White comeback.
Here's the thing people forget:
The Steelers defense with a healthy Polamalu is GREAT.

Steelers defense without him is GOOD, vulnerable.

You got the healthy Polamalu. My Packers last year got the one without TP and Rodgers lit them up.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2010, 10:06 PM
If you could fuse Ryan's brain with Flacco's measurables, you'd have a super qb.


This is a tough call, I liked Flacco more coming out, and his arm is just amazing. He made throws today against the Jets defense that 95% of the qbs in the league won't make.

The Jets defense is so nasty. Some of those throws Flacco made, I mean you gotta give him his props, his numbers didn't look great, but I think the Jets are gonna do that to a lot of qbs.

I'm gonna go with Flacco.

yourfavestoner
09-13-2010, 10:06 PM
Wow that draw was destroyed.

Edit: **** I keep posting in the wrong threads.

Complex
09-13-2010, 10:37 PM
Flacco by default

I thought Matt Ryan was gonna suck, I was wrong for like a year. I also thought Jay Cutler was gonna suck and it took him awhile to prove me right too.

I think Joe Flacco is gonna have Kerry Collins like career but a little worst.

Saints-Tigers
09-13-2010, 10:53 PM
Flacco was better as a rookie and last year, with less weapons.

He didn't look so good tonight though, I'd say his numbers are deceiving and he threw a lot of easy ones away.

Shiver
09-13-2010, 10:54 PM
Flacco was better as a rookie and last year, with less weapons.

He didn't look so good tonight though, I'd say his numbers are deceiving and he threw a lot of easy ones away.


Uh, no he wasn't.

Saints-Tigers
09-13-2010, 10:57 PM
his rookie year was debatable, last year wasn't all that close considering the disparity in offensive talent.

Shiver
09-13-2010, 11:03 PM
Offensive talent? The Ravens had a top-3 O-Line, Derrick Mason, Todd Heap and Ray Rice. The Falcons had a 260-lbs Michael Turner for 8 games, shaky O-Line play and Roddy White nursing a knee injury all year.

Even then, Flacco had a huge slump from mid-season on, just like Ryan did, because both had injuries that detracted from their performances. So far, performance wise, it has been a push. I don't want to hear that Atlanta has superior offensive talent because that is ********.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-14-2010, 12:27 AM
The game Flacco had today was pretty rough. It's what I thought he'd look like last year when they opened up the offense for him more. Granted, he was going up against a good D but man

Rosebud
09-14-2010, 04:07 AM
Flacco by default

I thought Matt Ryan was gonna suck, I was wrong for like a year. I also thought Jay Cutler was gonna suck and it took him awhile to prove me right too.

I think Joe Flacco is gonna have Kerry Collins like career but a little worst.

lol Jay Cutler sucks? Are ********? I mean you can critique him if you want but he's doing a good job in a terrible situation no matter how critical of him you want to be. He has no OL and thus no running game, his receivers are unproven, inconsistent and none require a double team plus his OC loves deep drops which is a recipe for disaster with an OL that bad.

Caddy
09-14-2010, 06:32 AM
Who cares! It's all about the FREE man. :D

iBoldin
09-14-2010, 10:38 AM
I agree with BBD in that if you could fuse the two quarterbacks together (Flacco's arm strength and ability to make tremendous throws with Ryan's head and football I.Q.) then you'd have a great quarterback.

I still want Flacco to make better decisions. Jaws and Gruden talked about it last night, Flacco's decision making was sub-par and it lead to him getting destroyed on that first series. It seemed to effect him for the rest of the night, he didn't exactly make good decisions all the time. He's still learning, which is great, but I think he needs to focus a little more on the mental aspect of the game.

That's not to say he wasn't good, because he was awesome at some points of the game. That touch pass over the middle for Heap was a thing of beauty, and he's using Boldin in the perfect way.

Give me Flacco at this point in time. I still really like Matt Ryan but I just prefer Flacco.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-14-2010, 10:55 AM
Flacco looked awful last night. He missed a lot of throws. It's nice to have a big arm but if you're gonna lob it up and miss guys, GTFO with that bull. He needs to be more consistent getting the ball on target.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-14-2010, 11:32 AM
It's tough to say. I'd probably take Flacco at this moment in time because he does have potential, while right now, Ryan looks like he will never be anything more than the Hasselback he was compared too.

It does need to be considered that Joe has superior talent surrounding him, and a much better OC, but one of Ryan's biggest selling points in becoming an elite QB (Mayock was all over this) was that he would be able to add arm strength ala Tom Brady. Alas, his arm is still mediocre.

Ravens1991
09-14-2010, 11:55 AM
This is the 1st year that Flacco has better weapons around him. We will see how the season progresses. Also both players had there running game shut down so that effected them.


Flacco had a couple WTF moments last night, but he improved as the game went on. His deep ball accuracy improved from last season.

Right now it seems like a Rivers,Manning,Big Ben debate. We will see if anyone can pull ahead.

abaddon41_80
09-14-2010, 12:32 PM
I'll take Flacco. To me it seems like he is getting better and better with each game and I am not seeing that type of improvement from Ryan.

Ravens1991
09-14-2010, 01:17 PM
Also Shiver, I wouldnt really say that about Ravens fans. There arent any on this board, but out and about in my home town I have talked to numerous people who were claiming Bulger is better.

Sportsfan486
09-14-2010, 01:38 PM
Both looked pretty bad. Flacco's first play was completely stupid. He literally stood there and did nothing as about 4 Jets came straight at him (on what was supposed to be a 3-step drop) and then dropped the ball as soon as he was hit. JV play. He also way overthrew a bunch of passes. That said, he did have a ridiculous 3rd down conversion rate against arguably the best D in the league.. thusly I give him the thumbs up over Ryan.

bam bam
09-14-2010, 04:40 PM
I'll take Flacco. To me it seems like he is getting better and better with each game and I am not seeing that type of improvement from Ryan.

To me he look like an improving quarterback to me! Anyone else see the improving quarterback say YEEYYAAA!!!

http://www.oneupwebreviews.com/files/2010/03/Leprechauns-in-Alabama.png

Saints-Tigers
09-16-2010, 09:05 PM
http://media.790thezone.com/Podcasts/1345/Phil_Simms_9-16-10.mp3

Apparently the Falcons aren't super sold on Ryan either.

Phil makes a lot of great points about arm strength in this link, not directly related to Ryan, just a good listen.

abaddon41_80
09-17-2010, 08:28 AM
To me he look like an improving quarterback to me! Anyone else see the improving quarterback say YEEYYAAA!!!


lol what the heck?

wicket
09-17-2010, 08:30 AM
To me he look like an improving quarterback to me! Anyone else see the improving quarterback say YEEYYAAA!!!


drunk posting, always nice

bigbluedefense
09-17-2010, 12:25 PM
You guys never saw the leprachaun in alabama youtube clip? that's what he spoofed

Saints-Tigers
09-17-2010, 01:48 PM
You guys never saw the leprachaun in alabama youtube clip? that's what he spoofed


Seriously my favorite clip of all time.

Shiver
09-19-2010, 01:40 PM
Joe Flacco - 5/17, 23 yards, 1 interception

Matt Ryan - 13/18, 127 yards, 2 touchdowns

Draft King
09-19-2010, 03:10 PM
Joe Flacco - 17/39, 154 yards, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 23.8 QB rating

Matt Ryan - 21/32, 225 yards, 3 TDs, 117.3 QB rating

Ravens1991
09-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Worst Flacco game ever!!!!! wow just wow.

Basileus777
09-19-2010, 04:19 PM
Flacco's footwork and decision making are awful.

Ravens1991
09-19-2010, 04:22 PM
he played bad. real bad. Everything about that O was bad today.


It looked like Flacco regressed honestly from last season.

Shiver
09-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Ray Rice was not bad.

Ravens1991
09-19-2010, 04:25 PM
true but Flacco looked like Boller out there.

what pissed me off was Rice only got the ball 16 times when he was doing great

BigDawg819
09-19-2010, 05:46 PM
true but Flacco looked like Boller out there.

what pissed me off was Rice only got the ball 16 times when he was doing great

Bite your tongue heathen!

Not once did Joe look SEXY out there, plus Kyle stopped throwing picks at 3. His generousness side only went so far

Ravens1991
10-04-2010, 09:46 AM
There stats against the steelers, this is the first game where we can compare the players.



Joe Flacco- 24/37 64.9% 256 yards 6.9average. 1 TD 1 INT 82.7 rating



Matt Ryan- 27/44 61.4% 252 yards 5.7average. 0 TD 1 INT 67.6 rating




I just realized that Flacco will play the NFC south with Ryan will play the AFC north. That will be good to compare because each QB will have 3 common opponents.

Hines
10-04-2010, 09:52 AM
Flacco most def looked calm out there yesterday. He finally had a decent game against the Steelers. I wished Lebeau dialed up more blitzes, but it is what it is. I don't think either are top 12 QBs yet, but they'll get there eventually.

RaiderNation
10-04-2010, 09:53 AM
I will take Ryan but its real close. Ryan was overrated so much by ESPN after his rookie year, people calling him the next elite QB to join Manning, Brees, Brady(Rodgers) ect... IMO he will be a step below those guys which is still great

ATLDirtyBirds
10-04-2010, 03:02 PM
Matt Ryan looked atrocious against a terrible team yesterday.

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
So at what point do these guys stop being up-and-coming QBs and instead become players not living up to their draft position? After this season?

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 11:31 AM
Flacco is c-walking all over Ryan's face right now.

Halsey
10-19-2010, 11:37 AM
So at what point do these guys stop being up-and-coming QBs and instead become players not living up to their draft position? After this season?

How good does a QB need to be to be worth pick 3, much less 18, in your mind? I'd be happy spending the #1 pick in the Draft on an above average starting QB. If you don't think they're both above average starting Qbs name 16 who are better. This should be funny.

Ravens1991
10-19-2010, 11:43 AM
To say both QBs arent living up to draft position is ridiculous.


I say Flacco is better then Ryan but i am biased. I wouldnt say he is clearly ahead of Ryan like BBD feels just yet.

Jvig43
10-19-2010, 12:07 PM
I feel confident saying Flacco is better then Ryan.

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 12:15 PM
I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

thefalconer
10-19-2010, 12:16 PM
flacco without a doubt undoubtedly is better than ryan.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
10-19-2010, 12:18 PM
I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

7TD's 6INTS but 4 came from the Bengals game and He is like 5 TD's 0 picks since.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-19-2010, 12:21 PM
I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

I agree. I caught the Jets game and the first half of the Pats game and I have not been impressed with him at all. Against the Pats he had a great comp% in that half, but watching it, all I could think about was how incredibly wide open guys were. In the Jets game I saw him be inaccurate, float balls, just being generally awful. Really, really hasn't impressed me.

Although to be fair to his numbers, 4 of those INTs came in one game, so assuming he doesn't have another on-field abortion, that ratio should improve.

BmoreBlackByrdz
10-19-2010, 12:31 PM
I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

what are you taking about? He not "throwing INTs" every week. Maybe if you paid a little attention, you'd see that he threw 4 in one game, and only throw 1 since then.

Here are his stats since the Bengals game,

6 Touchdowns 1 Interception
999 Passing Yards 87/128
68% Completion Rate
7.8 YPA

103.6 Quarterback Rating

and for your statement that "he's not completeing passes to his WRs"
His leading WR vs. New England was Derrick Mason... a Wide Receiver
He's done nothing but spread the ball around this year.

"He's not scoring points"

Well, he's the QB for one of the most balanced offenses in the game.
Last week vs. Denver, our running game had 47 carries 200+ yards and 4 Touchdowns. When you run the ball that well, he doesn't need to score.
Week before that, he lead the Ravens down the field to throw the game winning TD pass.

my point being -He doesn't need to put up 400+ yards and 3 TD's each game for us to win.

I understand you don't like Flacco's preformance, but atleast critisize it in a logical way instead of saying things that aren't true.

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 12:36 PM
How can you guys just throw out a 4 INT game like it doesn't matter? He threw those passes, right? You can twist it however you want but he still threw them. If the offense is so balanced, then I guess you wouldn't need a great QB to win, so in that respect I understand not minding that Flacco isn't that good.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
10-19-2010, 12:45 PM
How can you guys just throw out a 4 INT game like it doesn't matter? He threw those passes, right? You can twist it however you want but he still threw them. If the offense is so balanced, then I guess you wouldn't need a great QB to win, so in that respect I understand not minding that Flacco isn't that good.

Don't act like Flacco is the only QB to throw 4 interceptions in a game. That game is past us and we moved on. He has been more than a good QB since. You can have your opinion but you have no legit arguement that proves he isn't a good QB. You must be comparing him to Manning.

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 12:54 PM
I'm very sorry to all the butt-hurt Ravens fans (mainly RWO, thanks for the neg rep buddy) that are upset that their 1st round QB is so average. And if you want to compare him to somebody, I guess your best bet is Shaun Hill. You know, the backup Lions QB with an inferior OL, defense, and running game.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
10-19-2010, 12:58 PM
I'm very sorry to all the butt-hurt Ravens fans (mainly RWO, thanks for the neg rep buddy) that are upset that their 1st round QB is so average. And if you want to compare him to somebody, I guess your best bet is Shaun Hill. You know, the backup Lions QB with an inferior OL, defense, and running game.

The reason you got neg repped was because you make no sense and bring no valid points to your arguement. My 1st round QB is more than I expected. I'm sorry that my team doesn't have to rely on one person to win games for them and we can rely on multiple phases of the game.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-19-2010, 01:00 PM
Neither are going to be star QB's but if anyone has a chance it's Flacco. I'm tired of Ryan. I hate how announcers still treat him like he's a rookie constantly applauding his intangibles and such. The fact is that he's a completely mediocre QB who doesn't seem to have that much more room for growth. He's kind of hit his peak as a rookie. He'll have flashes but I just don't see him getting any better. Flacco on the otherhand can look like Jason Campbell at times, but at other times he shows a real good ability to put the ball on his receivers quick. His pocket awareness though is poor. He stands way too tall in the pocket and doesn't show a good sense of when to leave the pocket. He's a sitting duck for pass rushers.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
10-19-2010, 01:01 PM
I agree Flacco isn't a star QB and he has things he needs to work on but this douche bag is trying to make it like he is a bust.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-19-2010, 01:02 PM
Flacco hasn't been overly impressive, but Matt's just been below average.

bam bam
10-19-2010, 01:08 PM
I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far.

Cam Cameron. (with a splash of Flacco)

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 01:10 PM
The reason you got neg repped was because you make no sense and bring no valid points to your arguement. My 1st round QB is more than I expected. I'm sorry that my team doesn't have to rely on one person to win games for them and we can rely on multiple phases of the game.

I know, you told me all about it already when you threw your hissy fit. But "I don't like what you say" does not equal "your points are invalid". If Flacco was a good QB he would be doing more every game than what he does, because of that balance you are so proud of. I understand your low expectations but an actual good QB would be doing more with that much talent around him.

edit: I didn't call him a bust. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and Alex Smith are busts. I'm saying Flacco is overrated and if I were a Ravens fan I would expect more from a 1st rounder with such a strong team around him.

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 01:20 PM
Neither are going to be star QB's but if anyone has a chance it's Flacco. I'm tired of Ryan. I hate how announcers still treat him like he's a rookie constantly applauding his intangibles and such. The fact is that he's a completely mediocre QB who doesn't seem to have that much more room for growth. He's kind of hit his peak as a rookie. He'll have flashes but I just don't see him getting any better. Flacco on the otherhand can look like Jason Campbell at times, but at other times he shows a real good ability to put the ball on his receivers quick. His pocket awareness though is poor. He stands way too tall in the pocket and doesn't show a good sense of when to leave the pocket. He's a sitting duck for pass rushers.

Nailed it on the head. I'm afraid Ryan has already peaked, I don't see him getting any better. And his peak seems to be mediocrity.

However, that's not to say he's a qb you can't win with. You can win a SB with Matt Ryan at qb. And at the end of the day, that's all you ask for.

While he's mediocre, he does have a clutchness to him, and as long as you minimize his role and ask him to make a limited number of plays, he's good enough to win a championship with.

Shiver
10-19-2010, 01:23 PM
*cough* Eli Manning *cough*

Ravens1991
10-19-2010, 01:24 PM
whats your overall assesment on Flacco BBD?

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 01:29 PM
I do see similarities, but Ryan isn't in Eli's league when it comes to arm strength or reading defenses.

While Eli was streaky, people underestimate how much Burress and Shockey held him back bc of our choice route offense. Eli even early in his career was a pro at reading defenses and making the right reads, but more often than not his WRs were running wrong routes.

Its no coincidence that once he had WRs who practiced with him and ran the right routes that his numbers improved, and when Shockey left the team we started winning playoff games. Shockey was at fault for many many INTs.

Ryan has had the luxury of building chemistry with his WRs and running a much simpler offense, yet he doesn't make quick decisions sometimes and he doesn't read the defense nearly as well as Eli did at the same stage of his career.

He's still above average in this department, he does a better job at adjustments than many qbs in the league, but Eli was and still is on a different level in that department.

I'll give Ryan more time, but he's looking like he's peaked to me.

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 01:32 PM
whats your overall assesment on Flacco BBD?

Great arm strength, he can make throws that very few qbs can make, he can throw it on a rope, good overall accuracy, great mobility and can throw on the run.

Buuut, still has a ways to go with reading defenses, making line calls, and improving his pocket presence.

He's really like a skinnier taller version of Ben Roethlisberger.

However, I have more faith in Flacco correcting his flaws than Ryan correcting his. Ryan is often limited by his physical short comings. Improving pocket presence is something Flacco can improve rather easily.

If he wants to improve his ability to adjust plays and read defenses, he needs to study more, or maybe he'll never get it.

But Ben can't read a defense for his life, and he makes it work with his backyard football style. So as long as you have that arm, its no big deal.

BmoreBlackByrdz
10-19-2010, 03:03 PM
How can you guys just throw out a 4 INT game like it doesn't matter? He threw those passes, right? You can twist it however you want but he still threw them. If the offense is so balanced, then I guess you wouldn't need a great QB to win, so in that respect I understand not minding that Flacco isn't that good.

IIRC, your very own Peyton Manning threw 6 INT's vs. the Chargers a while back. Nobody is denying the fact that Flacco threw 4 picks in 1 game. The point I'm making is that Flacco has indeed rebounded.

Also keep in mind, that 66%(4/6) of the Ravens games were road games.
We've played the Bengals, Jets, Steelers, and Patriots defense in the first 6 weeks.



I know, you told me all about it already when you threw your hissy fit. But "I don't like what you say" does not equal "your points are invalid". If Flacco was a good QB he would be doing more every game than what he does, because of that balance you are so proud of. I understand your low expectations but an actual good QB would be doing more with that much talent around him.

edit: I didn't call him a bust. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and Alex Smith are busts. I'm saying Flacco is overrated and if I were a Ravens fan I would expect more from a 1st rounder with such a strong team around him.

Well, as I stated earlier, why exactly does Flacco need to make so many plays? Especially on a day when our run game is averaging 4-5 YPC?

No one Raven fan put Flacco on the same level as Brees, Brady or Manning. Not even on the Rivers, Rodgers, or Roethlisberger level.

Sure we expect more from Flacco but he's the best QB we've ever had in Baltimore and we still believe he's improving...

but people like you, who wanna see QB's throw for 300+ yards and 3 TD's a game are surely to be disappointed.
If you seriously judge a QB by the numbers, then you probably think Kyle Orton is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers....

Halsey
10-19-2010, 03:26 PM
If Ryan is below average, who are the 15 or 16 QBs better than him?

Jvig43
10-19-2010, 03:33 PM
If Ryan is below average, who are the 15 or 16 QBs better than him?

Oh this will be fun.

Brady
Manning
Manning
Mcnabb
Vick
rapelessburger
Rodgers
Brees
Shaub
Cutler (having a better year despite the Oline play)
Farve
Orton
Rivers
Vince young who just wins games
Flacco


Boom.

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 03:33 PM
In no order

Peyton
Brady
Brees
Eli
Ben
Rivers
Schaub
Romo
Vick
Rodgers
Flacco

Maaaybe McNabb. And maaaaybe Favre. And maybe even Cutler if he had an oline. But let's exclude those 3 guys, I count about 11 better which would make him somewhere in the 12-15 range. I think thats a fair spot for him. Which makes him slightly above average, which is probably what he is.

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 03:35 PM
Actually yeah, I'll put Mac5 and Cutler ahead of him. Id say Favre too but he's having ashit year so far. So that makes him 14.

I hate lists though, so ranking him kind of annoys me.

Job
10-19-2010, 03:48 PM
So at what point do these guys stop being up-and-coming QBs and instead become players not living up to their draft position? After this season?

This guy's brains have been spoiled by too much Peyton Manning.

BmoreBlackByrdz
10-19-2010, 04:40 PM
This guy's brains have been spoiled by too much Peyton Manning.

tell me about it...

Saints-Tigers
10-19-2010, 04:52 PM
I feel like Flacco always has to do a LOT more to get teh same recognition as Ryan.

When both play equally, Flacco is a game manager, and Ryan is dominating.

Polamalu_is_God
10-19-2010, 05:01 PM
Its simple folks. MATTY ICE is way better. Better stats less weapons=Better QB.

Halsey
10-19-2010, 05:01 PM
Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-19-2010, 05:05 PM
Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.

Or maybe they've seen the absolutely absurd amounts of receivers Ryan has missed this year along with his lack of ability to hit on big plays.

Halsey
10-19-2010, 05:08 PM
Or maybe they've seen the absolutely absurd amounts of receivers Ryan has missed this year along with his lack of ability to hit on big plays.

Yep, and all those other QBs are perfect. They never miss passes and hit 20 big plays per game.

Draft King
10-19-2010, 05:18 PM
Or maybe they've seen the absolutely absurd amounts of receivers Ryan has missed this year along with his lack of ability to hit on big plays.

Ryan has not missed an absurd amount of open receivers. It seems like you are still reeling over the loss of Vick. The only deep pass I can honestly say Ryan ****** up bad this year is the one to Harry Douglas in overtime that should have ended the Saints game. For the most part he has had some throws on the money, alot of which were dropped. (ex: Tony G dropped ball that led to Philly pick)

Also, for all those touting Eli Manning as so much better at Matt Ryan at this point in his career, just at the stats. Eli Manning didn't have a QB rating over 80 until his FIFTH season as QB. Matt Ryan has never had a rating below 80 in his entire career. Even this season Manning is only like a point higher.

I honestly believe when I say this that Ryan will be an elite QB, and it's not far fetched at all to believe that he will be better than Manning in the future. He has been alot better than people are led to believe this season, but his last two games have been a little rough.

Ravens1991
10-19-2010, 05:20 PM
I feel like Flacco always has to do a LOT more to get teh same recognition as Ryan.

When both play equally, Flacco is a game manager, and Ryan is dominating.



I felt the same way, but I figurd it was my Ravens bias. Glad to see a Neutral fan think the same way.

hockey619
10-19-2010, 06:07 PM
I feel like Flacco always has to do a LOT more to get teh same recognition as Ryan.

When both play equally, Flacco is a game manager, and Ryan is dominating.

This seems very true. Even in my mind just thinking about them, i see ryan as much more prototypical looking with great mechanics like tom brady. Flacco is so inconsistent play to play and game to game that it makes him seem like his success is an accident at times to those of us that dont see him particularly often. Add the 'big arm=no brains, just chucks it' stigma that surrounds guys like this when they come out (wrongfully sometimes, like in this case) which isnt accurate of him, its just that hes still progressing.

Cant really explain it, ryan just LOOKS the part more, think it influences people.

Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.

How is that not arguable? are you ******* kidding me? have you seen any/all of them play? pet peeve: i hate when people say 'i wont even argue it with you thats how wrong you are' when its very clear to everyone who isnt a homer that this is actually very arguable.

Mcnabb's team has been very inconsistent but hes played very well and looked like he is still every bit the QB he was in philly. he is at worst on Ryan's playing field, certainly arguable.

Cutler's line is horrendous, his coaching/playcalling is very spotty on a good day, and hes got average recievers. and hes still played fairly well this year though id say for him id take ryan over him. more safe and consistent.

Orton has been one of the best in the league this year. absolutely lights out. id take him over ryan everyday of the week

Vick looked really really good so far this year, definitely over ryan imo really fits in that offense well and just looks very solid and confident.

Favre has looked awful and like hes already quit on the team. yeah ryan everytime. and cause ryans not a douche. but mostly the first part.

Young: very tough for me, ive been believing in young this year and if you need a clutch play its tough to pick which guy cause young certainly has his moments too. id say its very tough call, guys in very similar situations. id say its a push, arguable either way.

Yep, and all those other QBs are perfect. They never miss passes and hit 20 big plays per game.

yeah cause thats what he said. great way to not respond to his point though and make it seem like hes right and you couldnt think of a counterargument.

Halsey
10-19-2010, 06:13 PM
Like I said, I'm not going to respond to every lame argument somemakes about why this or that QB is better. That just turns into a contest to see who can make stats say what they want.

And ATL's point was not worth a long argument over. Claiming that Ryan has missed receivers and not made big plays doesn't provide any evidence that any of those QBs is better.

Saints-Tigers
10-19-2010, 06:56 PM
What's funny is, this is the first year I feel that Flacco has better weapons, and this is the first year I feel like Ryan is outperforming him so far.

Don Vito
10-19-2010, 06:58 PM
Matt Ryan is a stud, the Falcons are going to be serious contenders for a while now and he is the main reason why. I've always liked Ryan but he looks like he is taking his game to a whole new level this season.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-19-2010, 07:01 PM
Really? I don't see Matt Ryan taking his game to a new level at all. Granted he had a dreadful year last year and is performing much better this year, but I'm not seeing anything out of him this year that I didn't see in his rookie year.

Don Vito
10-19-2010, 07:08 PM
Really? I don't see Matt Ryan taking his game to a new level at all. Granted he had a dreadful year last year and is performing much better this year, but I'm not seeing anything out of him this year that I didn't see in his rookie year.

He had a great rookie year and went through a bit of a sophomore slump, but the Falcons keep finding ways to win games. He isn't putting up eye-popping stats, but he is certainly putting up respectable numbers and to me has improved. The team didn't play well against Philly and a lot of this may be because I am slightly a Ryan homer, but I think this is going to be his breakout type season and he could lead the Falcons to a run in the playoffs. His rookie year he played well but he was a rookie so nobody really expected a big run by Atlanta, last year Ryan struggled a bit, and this year he is performing very well and I think he and that team are in a great position to make a run in the NFC.

Flacco is a good young QB too, but I would take Ryan over him with the game on the line ten times out of ten.

Halsey
10-19-2010, 07:09 PM
Matt Ryan went 9-5 last year, through for 22 TDs and nearly 3,000 yards. It's a myth that Ryan was bad last year. You either didn't watch him or play too much fantasy football if you think he was terrible.

Don Vito
10-19-2010, 07:14 PM
He wasn't bad at all, it's just he didn't take the step a lot of people were expecting him to make.

thefalconer
10-19-2010, 07:18 PM
ryan has been pretty erratic with his accuracy this year. he's been high on his throws a lot of times. at first i thought it was cause he was throwing to small harry douglas but he overthrew tony gonzalez a couple times and has been bailed out by some amazing catches by roddy white as well. he's only sharp on third downs. it's SO weird.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-19-2010, 08:46 PM
Ryan has not missed an absurd amount of open receivers. It seems like you are still reeling over the loss of Vick. The only deep pass I can honestly say Ryan ****** up bad this year is the one to Harry Douglas in overtime that should have ended the Saints game. For the most part he has had some throws on the money, alot of which were dropped. (ex: Tony G dropped ball that led to Philly pick)




Missing receivers doesn't always mean overthrowing them, even though he's done that quite a bit too. I'm sure you watched how on countless replays there was a WR running wide open and Matt could never find him. Now that's partially on Sam Baker being horrendous, but Matt sucks **** this year.


And I suppose I am still missing Vick, and that's because A. It'd be nice to have a good QB and B. He's the ************* man.

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 08:54 PM
I don't like it when people say stuff I don't agree with so I'm just gonna say you're WRONG and not back it up.


Nice.

10 characters

Morton
10-19-2010, 08:55 PM
I think both Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are basically your typical above-average quarterback - nothing more, nothing less. They're not elite, but they're not scrubs. They can potentially win a Super Bowl if they are given a solid running game and a good defense, but they won't carry a whole team like a Peyton Manning or a Drew Brees.

For instance, against the mediocre Eagles defense, a Peyton Manning or a Drew Brees would have lit them up like a Christmas tree. Matt Ryan, however, was merely decent with what he had to work with. Same goes for Joe Flacco against a terrible Pats defense.

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 09:02 PM
I think both Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are basically your typical above-average quarterback - nothing more, nothing less. They're not elite, but they're not scrubs. They can potentially win a Super Bowl if they are given a solid running game and a good defense, but they won't carry a whole team like a Peyton Manning or a Drew Brees.

I think that is a decent assessment. They're not scrubs or busts. Somewhere along the line my argument apparently magically switched from "these guys aren't living up to their draft slot" to "I hate them and hope they DIE!!!!"

And yeah, if I picked a QB at #3 overall, or #18 overall and surrounded him with the most complete team in the NFL, I would expect more than slightly above average. Maybe Manning has clouded my judgment, but maybe not having a decent QB, EVER, has clouded the judgment of some others on this board.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-19-2010, 09:17 PM
I do think that Flacco is hurt by not having a vertical threat considering his deep ball is one of his biggest strengths. Boldin, Mason, Housh, Heap they are all great possession receivers but they don't stretch it vertically. He might be underrated as a deep threat because he wasn't used that way in Arizona but Boldin should not be your deep threat, he doesn't have the speed for it. I don't know if Stallworth would have been that but he's out for the season, but I think Joe Flacco will take that next step once he gets a true vertical threat which will open things up further as well as a new OC as Cam Cameron is garbage right now with his run, run, pass, philosophy and inability to adjust his gameplan to the defense. Right now everything is about the run game, screens, and intermediate passes that defenses can sit down on the Ravens and play up on them. The defense needs to be stretched out more. They don't need a stud but just someone who gives the defense the threat of beating them deep. Also in terms of record the Ravens would be undefeated right now if they had the old Ravens defense. Yeah the offense stalled a bunch but their defense has really allowed teams to march up and down the field.

Ravens1991
10-19-2010, 09:18 PM
I think that is a decent assessment. They're not scrubs or busts. Somewhere along the line my argument apparently magically switched from "these guys aren't living up to their draft slot" to "I hate them and hope they DIE!!!!"

And yeah, if I picked a QB at #3 overall, or #18 overall and surrounded him with the most complete team in the NFL, I would expect more than slightly above average. Maybe Manning has clouded my judgment, but maybe not having a decent QB, EVER, has clouded the judgment of some others on this board.

Since that Bengals game Flacco has had a 103.6. So perhaps that game was the best thing that happened to him and he turned the corner after that. If he can keep that up he will be better then above average and should end up with a top 8 QB rating. Time will tell....





Also STRIP, Stallworth isnt out for the season. But Flacco deep ball accuracy has improved a lot from last season so I do see improvement from the years

Ravens1991
10-19-2010, 10:39 PM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-1019-20101018,0,1335957.column

Halsey
10-19-2010, 10:49 PM
I can't argue what you said so I'll be the 1,000,000th guy who thinks he's witty by changing your post.

Way to be original.

bucfan12
10-19-2010, 10:52 PM
I think Matt Ryan is going to be better QB. He has been surrounded by a nice running game and a very good WR in Roddy White and Hall of Game TE in Gonzelez, but he is still only in his 3rd year, along with Flacco. Flacco I can see winning a super bowl before Ryan is because Flacco has a veteran defense that is more dominate than Atlantas.

You hardly see young QB's lead there team to a super bowl in their 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes even 4th year.

Yeah, Tom Brady won in his 2nd year (1st year as a starter), but a lot of that had to do with that defense New England had.

Roethlisbuerger is another rare talent, but again, the Steelers defense and their running game was also very strong.

niel89
10-19-2010, 11:02 PM
^Truth.

They are still only 3rd year guys playing the toughest position in football. I'm still incredibly happy to have Flacco on my team. They both still have a lot of developing to do and still have a ton of football to play.

Halsey
10-19-2010, 11:09 PM
Every QB needs good people coaching and playing around him. Just because QB is the most important position doesn't mean others don't matter. Arguing this or that QB needs a good running game, coaching, defense, etc goes for every QB. There's no such thing as a QB who 'carries' a team. How can a QB carry a team single handedly when he's not even on the field half the game.

LonghornsLegend
10-19-2010, 11:14 PM
Matt Ryan is a stud, the Falcons are going to be serious contenders for a while now and he is the main reason why. I've always liked Ryan but he looks like he is taking his game to a whole new level this season.

I know you like Ryan and all, but I'm not sure what you've been watching at all this year if your calling him a stud and saying "he looks like he's taking his game to a whole new level". That is pretty much the complete opposite of what he's looked like this year, while he hasn't been bad this is a pretty big over statement.


I actually think Flacco will be the best after 5 years, think he has a higher ceiling and has alot more potential to tap into vs Ryan who is still gonna get better but doubt he'll be more then a really solid guy.

killxswitch
10-19-2010, 11:17 PM
I'm a hypocrite!

At least you admit it.

Halsey
10-19-2010, 11:28 PM
I also admit that I have no desire to get into some long, dumb argument in which stats are spun and definitive statements are made despite a lack of definitive proof. Been there, done that, not interested. It's not like anyone's mind will be changed.

Besides, if you think Flacco hasn't played up to being the #18 pick in the Draft, you're obviously not a reasonable, knowledgeable person in my book.

killxswitch
10-20-2010, 08:06 AM
I accept your surrender. Let's move on.

bigbluedefense
10-20-2010, 08:47 AM
Obviously we need more time to evaluate both of them, I just haven't been all that impressed with Ryan. I think his rookie year while great, was a bit exaggerated. And while he's grown the past 2 years since then, he hasn't grown at the pace everyone expected. It just seems like he's reached a ceiling, if he improves, I don't see him improving by much over what he is already.

But again, it's ony 5 games into his 3rd year, so its obviously too early to say anything just yet, so i'm probably reaching premature conclusions.

Having that said, I do think he's good enough. And at the end of the day, that's all you ask for.

hockey619
10-20-2010, 09:52 AM
Every QB needs good people coaching and playing around him. Just because QB is the most important position doesn't mean others don't matter. Arguing this or that QB needs a good running game, coaching, defense, etc goes for every QB. There's no such thing as a QB who 'carries' a team. How can a QB carry a team single handedly when he's not even on the field half the game.

how is any of this relevant at all? at all? like in any way? enormous scarcrow here, no one was saying the other positions dont matter, but theyre definitely not quite as important though.

youve made quite a few of these absurd comments in this thread where youre hypocritical then create scarecrows to tear down then follow it up with broad generalizations where you essentially say nothing.

and no a QB doesnt 'single handedly carry a team' no one said that that i saw and obvs thats not true, but some teams lean on their qbs more than others so the qb is carrying more of the burden than usual, therefore hes picking up the slack for the rest of his teammates who arent meeting the demands. in team sports no player can single handedly carry a team, but they can pick up the slack of other players and carry a lot more than there share of the load, thus they are sometimes said to be 'carrying the team,' but never single handedly.

I also admit that I have no desire to get into some long, dumb argument in which stats are spun and definitive statements are made despite a lack of definitive proof. Been there, done that, not interested. It's not like anyone's mind will be changed.

Bolded is a lot like what you do in almost every thread and have done repeatedly in this one. make a generalization or broad sweeping statement that cant really be proven either way or is just extremely stupid like the ones above that i wasted my time pointing out.

I dont even think Ryan sucks, but hes not nearly as good as youre making him out to be and to some he hasnt lived up to the lofty expectations set by his rookie year. hes been above average, nothing more. I think hes got Brady/Eli potential personally, but hes still a work in progress where the progress seems to have slowed a little.

killswitch is completely right here, youre not responding because you cant, youre just being a huge homer then not defending your points.

hockey619
10-20-2010, 09:57 AM
Matt Ryan went 9-5 last year, through for 22 TDs and nearly 3,000 yards. It's a myth that Ryan was bad last year. You either didn't watch him or play too much fantasy football if you think he was terrible.


and you said you didnt want stats being 'spun' or have stats coming up because theyre a waste?

hmm interesting that thats exactly what youre doing....

Halsey
10-20-2010, 10:03 AM
There's just no point in debating with someone who thinks Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Michael Vick, etc. are better than Matt Ryan. 32 out of 32 NFL teams would rather have Ryan than those guys.

Halsey
10-20-2010, 10:05 AM
and you said you didnt want stats being 'spun' or have stats coming up because theyre a waste?

hmm interesting that thats exactly what youre doing....

Yep, win-loss record, passing yards and touchdowns are just stats. They don't have any meaning beyond that.

hockey619
10-20-2010, 10:07 AM
There's just no point in debating with someone who thinks Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Michael Vick, etc. are better than Matt Ryan. 32 out of 32 NFL teams would rather have Ryan than those guys.


What happened to not liking when 'definitive statements were made WITHOUT DEFINITIVE PROOF?'

Orton has far and away outplayed Ryan this year. The other two are arguable as i showed and you ignored before.

Really, there is no point in debating when youre wrong.

hockey619
10-20-2010, 10:10 AM
Yep, win-loss record, passing yards and touchdowns are just stats. They don't have any meaning beyond that.

yeah and his 14 INTs and five fumbles were conveniently left out as was his mediocre completion percentage and average/above average all around rating. leaving the negative out and just highlighting the positives is definitely 'twisting the numbers' just done very blatantly and poorly.

But those one are just stats right? those are the ones that when brought up dont count cause theyre against your case so thats not fair? or are you gunna claim those numbers are twisted because once again youre being a huge hypocrite and homer?

Halsey
10-20-2010, 10:14 AM
Here's a definitive statement for you: Kyle Orton is playing on a one year contract.

That's a fact and there's a reason for it. Don't let Orton's marginally better stats fool you. The Broncos would be begging him to sign an extension if he was on Ryan's level. Do you think Matt Ryan would play on a one year contract? Are you really that naive?

21ST
10-20-2010, 10:18 AM
Yep, win-loss record, passing yards and touchdowns are just stats. They don't have any meaning beyond that.

are you aware that you are contradicting your self so many times in this theard?

Jvig43
10-20-2010, 10:20 AM
Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.

This is a great post. "hey you dont agree with me so your obviously wrong!".

hockey619
10-20-2010, 10:22 AM
Here's a definitive statement for you: Kyle Orton is playing on a one year contract.

That's a fact and there's a reason for it. Don't let Orton's marginally better stats fool you. The Broncos would be begging him to sign an extension if he was on Ryan's level. Do you think Matt Ryan would play on a one year contract? Are you really that naive?

Its definitively stupid though and completely wrong. and that I know for a FACT.

His contract is given to him based on A) past performance and B) projection for the future. His current pay isnt based on what hes doing RIGHT NOW because when he signed the deal NO ONE KNEW HED PLAY THIS WELL, THEYRE NOT PSYCHIC


What in the name of all things sane and holy does the years on his contract have to do with ANYTHING??????? Are you ******* serious? Its not based on how hes playing THIS YEAR if it was signed in the past. you gotta admit you were incredibly wrong to bring that up.

So far this year Orton is outplaying Ryan.

Halsey
10-20-2010, 10:30 AM
We're not talking about just this year, and Orton hasn't been outplaying Ryan. We're talking about misguided people thinking Matt Ryan is a below average starting QB. Guys like Kyle Orton do not rank above Ryan as a starting QB on any reasonable list. Ryan is making franchise QB money on a winning team. Kyle Orton has to play on a one year contract for a bad team.

yourfavestoner
10-20-2010, 10:37 AM
These Ryanalizations are even worse than the Vickscuses.

;)

hockey619
10-20-2010, 10:38 AM
We're not talking about just this year, and Orton hasn't been outplaying Ryan. We're talking about misguided people thinking Matt Ryan is a below average starting QB. Guys like Kyle Orton do not rank above Ryan as a starting QB on any reasonable list. Ryan is making franchise QB money on a winning team. Kyle Orton has to play on a one year contract for a bad team.

Yes were talking about this year, the whole thread is about how both ryan and flacco are playing RIGHT NOW.

Ive said repeatedly that Ryan is average/abover average. never said he was below average because he can make some plays and certainly isnt a liability. maybe that was directed to someone else idk...

Well Orton has outplayed him and been carrying the broncos offense that has no run game and solid but unspectacular weapons. Ryan has been solid this year but he hasnt blown the doors off, hes just been solid but hasnt been on fire the way orton has. hes playing out of his neck bearded mind right now.

Bolded is totally irrelevant as ive already proven and youve ignored. who are you bce?

Draft King
10-20-2010, 11:16 AM
These Ryanalizations are even worse than the Vickscuses.

;)

You're not my Halo buddy anymore. :(

Shiver
10-20-2010, 11:26 AM
Yes were talking about this year, the whole thread is about how both ryan and flacco are playing RIGHT NOW.

Ive said repeatedly that Ryan is average/abover average. never said he was below average because he can make some plays and certainly isnt a liability. maybe that was directed to someone else idk...

Well Orton has outplayed him and been carrying the broncos offense that has no run game and solid but unspectacular weapons. Ryan has been solid this year but he hasnt blown the doors off, hes just been solid but hasnt been on fire the way orton has. hes playing out of his neck bearded mind right now.

Bolded is totally irrelevant as ive already proven and youve ignored. who are you bce?

If that is what we're talking about then this is a no-contest. Matt Ryan is better across the board.

yourfavestoner
10-20-2010, 11:37 AM
You're not my Halo buddy anymore. :(

I'm just kidding, I actually really like Matt Ryan. I just think it's humorous that some of the same people who said "everyone just makes excuses for Vick" are doing the exact same thing for Ryan right now.

LonghornsLegend
10-20-2010, 11:47 AM
We're not talking about just this year, and Orton hasn't been outplaying Ryan. We're talking about misguided people thinking Matt Ryan is a below average starting QB. Guys like Kyle Orton do not rank above Ryan as a starting QB on any reasonable list. Ryan is making franchise QB money on a winning team. Kyle Orton has to play on a one year contract for a bad team.


What does this have to do with anything at all? What was even the point of mentioning this? At one point Matt Leinart was making franchise QB money and Kurt Warner was on a year to year contract also. I'm not sure what point your trying to make but bringing up contracts has nothing to do with it.

J-Mike88
10-20-2010, 11:54 AM
Right, Jamarcus Russell was making more money than Tom Brady and Drew Brees were IIRC.

Contracts don't determine who's better.

By the way, I do like Matt Ryan.

hockey619
10-20-2010, 12:44 PM
If that is what we're talking about then this is a no-contest. Matt Ryan is better across the board.

Read the whole thing first man thats not what me and halsey were on anymore.

Thats what the thread started out and what was being discussed before he claimed ryan better than a bunch of arguably as talented (or better) qbs then said anyone who says different is crazy and wasting his time. then he went all absurdly hypocritcal in a half a dozen ways after i called him out for making idiotic and baseless comments and mostly for being a huge homer.

Id say between the two yeah Id probably take ryan, hes more consistent and Flacco has all these new weapons but still isnt bringing it together for some reason.

But me and him were talking about Orton and Ryan.

Shiver
10-20-2010, 01:12 PM
Orton's system inflates his statistics. I think everyone should know that now. Defenses will catch on, like they did last year, and they will destroy the Broncos passing attack in the 2nd half of the season.. watch for it. He started out even hotter last year.

bigbluedefense
10-20-2010, 01:22 PM
Yeah for the record, I'm not in the group that thinks Orton is better than Ryan.

bucfan12
10-20-2010, 04:32 PM
Orton's system inflates his statistics. I think everyone should know that now. Defenses will catch on, like they did last year, and they will destroy the Broncos passing attack in the 2nd half of the season.. watch for it. He started out even hotter last year.

Do you really think Tim Tebow is ready?

I know this is a Ryan/Flacco discussion, but Kyle Orton has been very impressive this year, especially with NO RUNNING GAME!

He lost one of the best WR's in Brandon Marshall and is still putting up numbers. Orton is showcasing his skills to QB needy teams for 2011 or 2012 because the Broncos are going to turn to Tebow sometime. (something tells me it might be at the end of this year, when they are basically out of contention).

Addict
10-20-2010, 05:14 PM
Do you really think Tim Tebow is ready?

I know this is a Ryan/Flacco discussion, but Kyle Orton has been very impressive this year, especially with NO RUNNING GAME!

He lost one of the best WR's in Brandon Marshall and is still putting up numbers. Orton is showcasing his skills to QB needy teams for 2011 or 2012 because the Broncos are going to turn to Tebow sometime. (something tells me it might be at the end of this year, when they are basically out of contention).

the broncos knew when they drafted him Tebow wouldn't be ready to play QB in the NFL for another one, possibly two, maybe even three seasons. That's what they bought and that's what they got. Josh MacD is thanking his lucky stars that Orton is looking good.

Jvig43
10-20-2010, 07:25 PM
the broncos knew when they drafted him Tebow wouldn't be ready to play QB in the NFL for another one, possibly two, maybe even three seasons. That's what they bought and that's what they got. Josh MacD is thanking his lucky stars that Orton is looking good.

Psssh it was all part of the plan. ;)

Halsey
10-24-2010, 10:24 PM
lol at people saying Cutler is better than Matt Ryan...

Yeah, I know it's just one week, but do you still feel that way?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-24-2010, 10:26 PM
I guess Ryan is better than Brees too.

Like you said, one week doesn't make an argument.

Halsey
10-24-2010, 10:28 PM
It's not like this week was all that unusual. Ryan played well and Cutler was a turnover machine. Pretty much like most weeks.

Job
10-24-2010, 10:33 PM
I guess Ryan is better than Brees too.

Like you said, one week doesn't make an argument.

Let's not act like Cutler sucking is just a one week affair.

Complex
10-24-2010, 10:35 PM
It's not like this week was all that unusual. Ryan played well and Cutler was a turnover machine. Pretty much like most weeks.

It was a home game, he is like 16-1 at home

Job
10-24-2010, 10:36 PM
It was a home game, he is like 16-1 at home

Need sauce on your avy. It's urgent.

Halsey
10-24-2010, 10:36 PM
It was a home game, he is like 16-1 at home

Is that supposed to be an argument against Ryan?

Complex
10-24-2010, 10:38 PM
Is that supposed to be an argument against Ryan?

I am just saying he sucks playing away games thats all

Job
10-24-2010, 10:41 PM
Need sauce on your avy. It's urgent.

Like, really.

Halsey
10-24-2010, 10:45 PM
I am just saying he sucks playing away games thats all

So being good at home means he's automatically bad on the road? Disagree. He's just better at home, which is pretty normal.

Draft King
10-24-2010, 10:57 PM
I am just saying he sucks playing away games thats all

Ryan definitely doesn't suck on the road, he's not as good, but he doesn't suck.

Halsey
10-24-2010, 11:54 PM
I just watched the Broncos-Raiders highlights. Kyle Orton better than Matt Ryan lol! Some of you are too funny!

brat316
10-25-2010, 12:16 AM
I just watched the Broncos-Raiders highlights. Kyle Orton better than Matt Ryan lol! Some of you are too funny!

I like both Flacco and Ryan. But just to show what you did there.

Hey did you guys watch Flacons-49ers highlights too funny, or Falcons-Steelers.


Also I'm pretty sure Raiders have one of the better pass D this year, with Namdi playing more man.

Jvig43
10-25-2010, 01:31 AM
Now everytime Ryan has a bad game I'm going to just insert a Qb that had a good game the same day and say, lol Ryan is better then that QB? Psssh too funny as an argument. Great logic there Halsey.

Halsey
10-25-2010, 01:33 AM
No, I don't see what you did there. The Falcons beat the 49ers and lost to the Steelers(best defense in the NFL) in overtime. The 49ers win included a game winning drive, led by Ryan. Orton just played like complete ass against the Raiders in Denver.

Halsey
10-25-2010, 01:34 AM
Now everytime Ryan has a bad game I'm going to just insert a Qb that had a good game the same day and say, lol Ryan is better then that QB? Psssh too funny as an argument. Great logic there Halsey.

The problem for you is that I will continue to be right about Ryan being better than guys like Cutler and Orton. When I point out a specific game, it's supporting the correct side of the argument.

Chucky
10-25-2010, 01:34 AM
No, I don't see what you did there. The Falcons beat the 49ers and lost to the Steelers(best defense in the NFL) in overtime. The 49ers win included a game winning drive, led by Ryan. Orton just played like complete ass against the Raiders in Denver.

Except Ryan got completely bailed out in the 9ers game by a ******* WR forcing a fumble on an INT

Halsey
10-25-2010, 01:39 AM
Except Ryan got completely bailed out in the 9ers game by a ******* WR forcing a fumble on an INT

The fumble was recovered on the Atlanta 7. The Falcons then drove it all the way to the 49ers 25. Sorry, but you'll have to do better than conveniently trying to ignore that drive.

Jvig43
10-25-2010, 01:43 AM
The problem for you is that I will continue to be right about Ryan being better than guys like Cutler and Orton. When I point out a specific game, it's supporting the correct side of the argument.

Which doesnt mean you can be biased and only look at it from a Falcons fan point of view. Every QB has a couple of bad games, you cant just take a couple of bad games as the sole example for one QB and take a few good games for the other QB and make a fair comparison.

Halsey
10-25-2010, 01:46 AM
Which doesnt mean you can be biased and only look at it from a Falcons fan point of view. Every QB has a couple of bad games, you cant just take a couple of bad games as the sole example for one QB and take a few good games for the other QB and make a fair comparison.

I didn't say they were the sole example. You're trying to say I said that because you can't argue what I actually say. They are simply examples that support the truth.

And don't try to act as if I'm being some kind of unreasonable homer. It's not like I'm saying Ryan is better than Peyton Manning. It's obvious to most people that Ryan is an above average starting QB and a step above guys like Orton.

Jvig43
10-25-2010, 02:04 AM
Matt Ryan:
2010 stats thus far
Comp/Attempts 156/252 for 1,714 yards 12 Tds and 5 Ints

2009
Comp/attempts 263/451 for 2,916 yards 22 TDs and 14 Ints

Kyle Orton

2010 thus far
comp/attempts 167/276 for 2,140 yards 11 Tds and 4 Ints

2009
Comp/attempts 336/541 for 3,802 21 Tds and 12 Ints

Now I hate to just bring up stats when arguing but without a star WR this year to throw to Orton is still out producing Ryan (more yards, less interceptions right around the same amount of TDs), without a running game either. Now whats your argument for Ryan being better other then well Orton had a bad game and Ryan didnt hence forth, Ryan = better. And please stop just saying I am right, because you havent used any evidence to support your statement other then "well im on the right side of the argument".

Halsey
10-25-2010, 02:10 AM
This isn't fantasy football. Orton has passed for more yards than Peyton Manning this year. Big deal.

Jvig43
10-25-2010, 02:12 AM
I'm still waiting for to hear what exactly it is then as to why Ryan is better. Again, try posting some evidence of something other then just telling me im wrong.

Halsey
10-25-2010, 02:18 AM
You want evidence? Ryan wins more, is clutch in the fourth quarter, and was never a throw in as part of a trade for Jay Cutler.

And since you like stats: Orton has completed 41% of his passes in each of the last 2 games. I can't even remember the last time Ryan was that inefficient with his passing.

Jvig43
10-25-2010, 09:34 AM
Orton was also playing against two of the better defenses the last two games, so any QBs completion percentage is going to drop. Even with two games of 41% he still is tied with Ryan for completion % for the season. And more Clutch in the fourth Quarter, like that time he threw a pick in the San fran game and got bailed out by White and then Atlanta kicked a field goal to win it? Hmmmm, so any QB who was ever traded is basically bad right? They might be even worse if a team just lets them walk by that standard, so hence forth, Drew Brees....Not very good.

Rosebud
10-25-2010, 09:46 AM
lol at people saying Cutler is better than Matt Ryan...

Yeah, I know it's just one week, but do you still feel that way?

Honestly? Yeah, I still think Cutler is a better QB than Ryan, but I also feel that Cutler is one of the most talented QBs in the NFL and if he had an OL and dependable running game, much less a star WR and All-time Great TE, he would be producing among the best in the game and everyone would have a different impression of him. Getting beaten up everyday with a non-existent running game and a bunch of complimentary receivers he looks a lot worse.

Still I'm taking him over Ryan, because he can really zip his passes into incredibly tight windows when he has time, when he's on his deep ball is one of the deadlist in the league. He's also really tough, say what you will about that stupid face he makes and the douche monger he may be off the field, but the guy has gotten beaten up on a lot of bad teams going back all of the way to his college career. That takes a strong mind to keep getting up, to keep taking those hits and to not become yet another Captain Checkdown.

hockey619
10-25-2010, 10:19 AM
I didn't say they were the sole example. You're trying to say I said that because you can't argue what I actually say. They are simply examples that support the truth.


Yeah i know its not like you totally ignored when i blew up your bs 'hes on a longer contract = hes better' argument.

you are absurdly hypocritical.

Ryan had a better game playing against a worse team. The entire broncos team looked horrible in their game, not just orton exclusively.

for the year theyve played about even. Orton hasnt had any great late game plays (that come to mind anyway) and ryan did have a drive but it also came after he blew the game and was given a second chance on a very badass play from roddy white while playing the helpless 49ers.

And my original argument was that you said: Cutler, Orton, etc arent as good as ryan and if you argue different youre clearly wrong. I said it was certainly arguable as i said i think orton had clearly outplayed him until these last two weeks now and its starting to even out a little bit, which you changed to the contract thing somehow that i proved to be incredibly inept that you immediately ignored.

so if youre gunna play the 'youre ignoring my argument card because you cant dispute it' card maybe you should start responding to the crap arguments you brought up then conveniently left.

A Perfect Score
10-25-2010, 10:25 AM
Its actually ridiculous how effective of a situation Ryan is in. He has a Top 5 WR, the best TE of all time, a stud RB and a pretty solid offensive line. If you ask me, he should be doing more then he is for that team. That said, they are winning games but it isn't like he's taking the team on his back and making huge plays. He's a solid starting QB, but I don't think Im alone when I say that people were expecting more Tom Brady and less Matt Hasslebeck, who he reminds me of right now.

hockey619
10-25-2010, 10:25 AM
The fumble was recovered on the Atlanta 7. The Falcons then drove it all the way to the 49ers 25. Sorry, but you'll have to do better than conveniently trying to ignore that drive.


And you need to do better than conveniently ignoring that the game was over until Roddy bailed him out and gave him a second chance, since, you know he blew the first one and got picked.

hockey619
10-25-2010, 10:31 AM
Its actually ridiculous how effective of a situation Ryan is in. He has a Top 5 WR, the best TE of all time, a stud RB and a pretty solid offensive line. If you ask me, he should be doing more then he is for that team. That said, they are winning games but it isn't like he's taking the team on his back and making huge plays. He's a solid starting QB, but I don't think Im alone when I say that people were expecting more Tom Brady and less Matt Hasslebeck, who he reminds me of right now.

This except the bolded. i dont even want him to carry the team, he can do the young brady and carry the team when they need him and just play simple mistake free football until those moments, but he doesnt he tries to make too many plays i feel like sometimes and not just take what they give him.

Hes played well, but I thought he was Tom Brady 2.0 or another Eli in the making when he came out and at times hes really looked like it (as Halsey said hes been clutch) but he misses some throws and just hasnt quite put it all together yet. Just watching him the accuracy isnt quite what youd expect and gets very spotty at times.

Id still take him over Flacco, like i said before, but i certainly think its VERY arguable with the other middle of the pack qbs.

Rosebud
10-25-2010, 10:38 AM
Its actually ridiculous how effective of a situation Ryan is in. He has a Top 5 WR, the best TE of all time, a stud RB and a pretty solid offensive line. If you ask me, he should be doing more then he is for that team. That said, they are winning games but it isn't like he's taking the team on his back and making huge plays. He's a solid starting QB, but I don't think Im alone when I say that people were expecting more Tom Brady and less Matt Hasslebeck, who he reminds me of right now.

He may be Matt Hasselback right now, but I think it's not absurd to think he will become a slightly less effective with the deep ball Eli Manning. Which as has been shown is more than enough to become a perennial playoff team that has everything come together one of those years and wins a superbowl.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-25-2010, 11:26 AM
I hope you guys know that just because Tony G is an all-time great TE, doesn't mean he still is one.

Rosebud
10-25-2010, 11:36 AM
I hope you guys know that just because Tony G is an all-time great TE, doesn't mean he still is one.

I'm actually pretty sure that if Tony G is an all-time great TE, that means that he's an all-time great TE. He may not be the same player he once was, but he's really smart and I'd still probably take him over Olsen.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-25-2010, 11:53 AM
I'm actually pretty sure that if Tony G is an all-time great TE, that means that he's an all-time great TE. He may not be the same player he once was, but he's really smart and I'd still probably take him over Olsen.


Yeah, I didn't word that well at all. I meant to say still isn't a great TE now. He's really best served as a decoy/inside the 10 threat at this point. His speed is pretty much shot, and his hands haven't been great at all this year. He's a valuable target for 3rd and not too far/goaline area where he can just sit down in front of someone, but he's really not going to do anything all that explosive at this point.

Shiver
10-25-2010, 01:55 PM
Tony Gonzalez is no better than Todd Heap at this point in their careers. He has lost a step and a half. The Ravens have a better line, equal at TE and RB (though in this context Ray Rice helps the passing game much more than Turner.) The only category that the Falcons are better than the Ravens at is Roddy White, but let's not act as if Anquan Boldin is a chump. Plus Mason and Houshmandzadeh kick Michael Jenkins and Harry Douglas' asses.

Oh and Matt Ryan is 7th in yards, has a 12:5 TD/INT ratio and the Falcons are atop the NFC Standings.

May not be better than Eli Manning? He is already much better than Eli was at this point in their careers. He is doing better than Eli Manning this year. WTF

In conclusion:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l041rV08_o8/SxLWppmdnCI/AAAAAAAAGf0/fxKEWUQ4F04/s400/MIDDLE+FINGER+CHILD.jpg

Draft King
10-25-2010, 06:19 PM
Love you Shiver.

Shiver
10-25-2010, 06:20 PM
I just got off work. I was in a mood. :-p

d34ng3l021
10-26-2010, 03:15 AM
Now I hate to just bring up stats when arguing but without a star WR this year to throw to Orton is still out producing Ryan (more yards, less interceptions right around the same amount of TDs), without a running game either. Now whats your argument for Ryan being better other then well Orton had a bad game and Ryan didnt hence forth, Ryan = better. And please stop just saying I am right, because you havent used any evidence to support your statement other then "well im on the right side of the argument".

Kyle Orton has 1 less interception than Ryan, but in that case, he has 'less interceptions' whereas when Ryan has 1 more TD than Orton he has 'around the same TDs?' Good job trying to hide your bias and the fact that Orton has 24 more attempts.

The reason Matt Ryan doesn't put up magical numbers like Kyle Orton is because he doesn't have an offensive genius that uses the spread uber effectively like Josh McDaniels. The Falcons are a power running team that is held back by the predictability and lack of creativity by the OC Mike Mularkey. Watch a Falcons game and you will see the same curls and outs day in and day out and lack of shots downfield (the latter has been improving). Sometimes they work (usually at home, when michael turner is going) and sometimes they don't (away games...). If the Falcons had a Josh McDaniels or Sean Payton at helm and were throwing the ball 40 times a game (with 34 of those passes coming from shotgun), then ya, Ryan is gonna have different, and probably more inflated numbers. It's not like he isn't capable of doing it either; he threw for 4500 yards at BC with **** talent around him.

Orton was also playing against two of the better defenses the last two games, so any QBs completion percentage is going to drop. Even with two games of 41% he still is tied with Ryan for completion % for the season. And more Clutch in the fourth Quarter, like that time he threw a pick in the San fran game and got bailed out by White and then Atlanta kicked a field goal to win it? Hmmmm, so any QB who was ever traded is basically bad right? They might be even worse if a team just lets them walk by that standard, so hence forth, Drew Brees....Not very good.

I don't think the 2 games of 41% is helping Orton's cause...Ryan's comp. % has been at a steady 62%-63% with anomalies of 54 and 57 coming during away games against a surprising Browns defensive unit led by Rob Ryan (you know, the one that picked off Brees 4 times in NO) and the always blitz happy Eagles. Orton's anomalies came at home against the Jets (Ryan completed 47% against the Jets in NY and came away with a W last year) and the Raiders (last time Ryan played in Oakland (2 years ago), he posted his career high QB rating with 134).

And no not clutch in 4th quarter when he threw an interception with less than 2 minutes ago. Clutch when he drove the Falcons 68 yards in 1:09 to win the game despite having one of the worst games I've seen out of him as a Falcon.

That is what is great about Ryan that only Falcon fans can appreciate and isn't available in the comp.% or # of TDs and interceptions. Oh wait...it is.

25-12 since starting as a rookie and a 16-1 home record. Not bad for having a defense that currently ranks 24th in yards allowed, and finished 21st and 24th in 2009 and 2008, respectively. And that's why Ryan > Orton.

Saints-Tigers
10-26-2010, 04:02 AM
Orton is better than Ryan because he can put up the same kind of numbers with lesser talent. Roddy White is amazing, Michael Turner is a beast, but neither stacks up to BRANDON LLOYD!!!

Rosebud
10-26-2010, 10:49 AM
*shrug* He's not better than Eli yet and just because he's ahead of Eli's pace now doesn't mean he'll ever surpass Eli. You should know that, I mean is Big Ben better than Peyton because he had a better rookie year? No, because he still has to make the developments that Peyton did, could he still make them? Sure, but it's not some sort of guarantee just because he started better.

I like Matt Ryan but he doesn't have a deep ball that comes even close to Eli's and he doesn't carry his offense as effectively as Eli, now could Ryan develop to match Eli in those areas? Of course, but we don't know if he will or won't until he does.

bigbluedefense
10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
Tony Gonzalez is no better than Todd Heap at this point in their careers. He has lost a step and a half. The Ravens have a better line, equal at TE and RB (though in this context Ray Rice helps the passing game much more than Turner.) The only category that the Falcons are better than the Ravens at is Roddy White, but let's not act as if Anquan Boldin is a chump. Plus Mason and Houshmandzadeh kick Michael Jenkins and Harry Douglas' asses.

Oh and Matt Ryan is 7th in yards, has a 12:5 TD/INT ratio and the Falcons are atop the NFC Standings.

May not be better than Eli Manning? He is already much better than Eli was at this point in their careers. He is doing better than Eli Manning this year. WTF

In conclusion:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l041rV08_o8/SxLWppmdnCI/AAAAAAAAGf0/fxKEWUQ4F04/s400/MIDDLE+FINGER+CHILD.jpg

Umm....now I'll be the first to admit that Eli could be having a better year (INTs are way too high, even though more than half went off his WRs hands), but he's 6th in the league in yards and 1st in TDs.

And has a better completion % I believe. If you want to say Ryan is having a better 3rd year than Eli did, I won't argue that. But he's not having a better year than Eli this year.

I just don't like that arm on Ryan. Seeing that one bomb pass to Roddy, its like he had to put everything he had in that throw, and it was a lollipop in a dome.

He's good, don't get me wrong, but there's limitations in his game that I just don't like.

Halsey
10-26-2010, 11:41 AM
WLz9WkAatAQ

Yeah, Ryan's deep ball is a real problem...

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2010, 12:03 PM
I love Gus Johnson.

thefalconer
10-26-2010, 01:11 PM
I love Gus Johnson.

i missed the game cause there weren't any working streams but i watched the highlights on nfl.com and gus' commentary is so awesome.

Shiver
10-26-2010, 01:31 PM
For having "limitations" he has the same amount of 20+ yard passes as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees; more than Tom Brady and Joe Flacco. He is 6th in the league in 40+ yard passes.

killxswitch
10-26-2010, 02:57 PM
For having "limitations" he has the same amount of 20+ yard passes as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees; more than Tom Brady and Joe Flacco. He is 6th in the league in 40+ yard passes.

How many of those are a result of YAC? Serious question.

Shiver
10-26-2010, 03:34 PM
Yards after catch or contact? The first can be attributed to a good pass if that's what you mean. Besides, Ryan has hit White for two forty yard touchdowns this season, on perfect throws, one outdoors and one in the Georgia Dome. Neither of which came from YAC.

Saints-Tigers
10-26-2010, 03:47 PM
Drew Brees is playing like **** this year, and can't his deep ball going. Matt Ryan is comparable to that. Yay.

killxswitch
10-26-2010, 04:33 PM
Yards after catch or contact? The first can be attributed to a good pass if that's what you mean. Besides, Ryan has hit White for two forty yard touchdowns this season, on perfect throws, one outdoors and one in the Georgia Dome. Neither of which came from YAC.

After catch. Since Ryan's arm was in question and you said his 40+ yard passes are evidence that his arm is fine I thought it was appropriate to ask if they were actual deep throws or a slant that Roddy took for 40+.

Rosebud
10-26-2010, 06:14 PM
I'm not calling Matt Ryan Chad Pennington or anything. Eli just throws a beauty of a deep ball and the only reason their numbers are close in the 10+ range is because our receivers are trying out for the US Men's Volleyball team and have turned at least 3 good gains into INTs. Ryan's deep ball is part of his arsenal, but it's not as dangerous of a weapon as Eli's. Plus I just don't see Ryan as quite so much the focal point of his team as Eli has become for the Gmen.

Now Ryan's got plenty of time and it's a solid argument that he's doing better at this point of his career than Eli was in his, but Eli's playing at a higher level right now and while Ryan may well hit that level as well, he's gotta do it first.

M.O.T.H.
10-27-2010, 01:23 AM
Flacco's done. The guidos got to him...no more time for football.

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nfl_experts__27/ept_sports_nfl_experts-995891778-1288113699.jpg?ymkIK_DDJcp2hcY1

Paranoidmoonduck
10-27-2010, 01:33 AM
Flacco's done. The guidos got to him...no more time for football.

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nfl_experts__27/ept_sports_nfl_experts-995891778-1288113699.jpg?ymkIK_DDJcp2hcY1

Oh dear god.

Rosebud
10-27-2010, 03:10 AM
Ravens fans must be furious right about now.

niel89
10-27-2010, 03:27 AM
Its only a Halloween costume thank god. I can't stand jersey shore.

http://www.examiner.com/jersey-shore-in-national/jersey-shore-inspires-raven-s-qb-joe-flacco-s-haircut-photos

Rosebud
10-27-2010, 03:32 AM
sure it is...